00:00:51 -!- Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:52 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:54 Is indenting 6 really the convention for LOOP? 00:01:58 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:02:51 Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:30 -!- bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:03:47 For complex loop, yes. 00:03:54 Simple loop is often indented 2. 00:04:20 JasonFelice: i thought there was no need for identing in lisp 00:04:29 mradot: think again. 00:04:37 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:43 mradot: The machine doesn't need it, yes. But... 00:04:55 you don't need to! i mean, you don't need to indent C either, and it'll be completely unreadable, but who cares about that 00:05:09 Bike: yes 00:06:05 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:04 -!- echo-area [~user@111.196.6.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:10:35 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has joined #lisp 00:12:19 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106000db914edf1.ss.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:55 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.239.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:02 *Xach* goes on a big planet lisp blog feed purge, zaps a dozen feeds 00:15:14 stuff that doesn't update? 00:15:32 Anyone want to comment on style, 'cause n00b? https://gist.github.com/eraserhd/5905824 00:15:35 Yeah, stuff that hasn't updated in a year. I should just change it to not show them on the sidebar, but I haven't done that yet. 00:16:55 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:17:02 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:10 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:18 JasonFelice: probably easier to use (cdr (member "-p" args :test 'string=)) or similar. 00:17:34 :test 'equalp is also fine 00:18:35 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:43 (make-start-options :pivotal-story-id (cdr (member "-p" args :test 'equalp))) to elaborate a bit. 00:19:43 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:19:55 Xach: I saw something like that in another lisp package just today. I worry about cases like "--name -p -p 7". 00:20:09 Ah, it was buildapp. 00:20:41 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:35 Oh, right, in common lisp (cdr nil) => nil 00:22:36 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:23:02 Ha, I think I'll do it that way anyway. 00:23:58 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:57 JasonFelice: yeah, if it was more than "-p", you'd need a different strategy 00:25:14 there are actually a bunch of command-line processing libraries available. i hope to get acquainted with some soon. 00:25:20 i am tired of rolling my own all the time! 00:26:05 Xach: Actually, that's why I went with MEMBER, 'cause if that gets to be a problem, I should be using a library. 00:26:07 -!- setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:26:52 destructuring-bind heh 00:27:59 (but, people are not used to lisp plists for unix commands) 00:29:01 Xach: needed to be SECOND instead of CDR tho. 00:29:08 oh, right. sorry about that. 00:29:09 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:15 phadthai: I come from Scheme, where it seems natural to recurse on the remainder. Common Lisp seems to eschew that. 00:30:28 (I imagine DESTRUCTURING-BIND would require that.) 00:31:33 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:37 JasonFelice, common lisp doesn't eschew that, at least it doesn't for me! I do it all the time 00:32:28 JasonFelice, if you miss your named-let, quickload "recur": https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/recur 00:33:04 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:34:04 Hrmm. You can use LABELS for local mutually recursive functions. Can you use FLET for a self-recursive function? Or does that have to be LABELS, too? 00:34:14 has to use labels. 00:34:22 flet is like let. no recursive binding 00:35:03 Quadrescence: Don't want to introduce dependencies _yet_. I mean, I'll need an HTTP library, but mostly trying to figure out the language as it is. 00:35:18 Bike: cool. 00:35:20 please don't be one of those "no dependencies" guys. Quicklisp makes it trivial 00:35:38 named let is kind of a weird dependency, though. 00:36:09 Bike, true, it should be part of quickutil! 00:36:25 i've never quite understood why scheme does it anyway. 00:36:27 Quadrescence: Heh. I'm not in general. Quicklisp already a dependency anyway. I don't want to be fancy until I figure out why I want to be fancy. 00:37:18 Like, when I bang my head three times, then I'll go, "Oh, right." Otherwise I'm just magic chicken programming. Which I detest. 00:37:25 Bike, because it looks a lot nicer than using (letrec ((f (lambda (x)  (f y)))) ...) 00:38:52 (and, aside from that, the recursive style makes looks very easy to understand) 00:39:13 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:41:37 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:40 krsree [~krsree@106.51.165.24] has joined #lisp 00:44:45 Although, what's the most popular argument-parsing library? 00:46:29 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:28 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:47:45 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 00:48:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:50:25 JasonFelice: I haven't seen anything approaching consensus. 00:52:21 I was going to try https://github.com/brown/lisp-gflags first. 00:53:24 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:50 Hrmm 00:54:14 OK. 00:54:19 I'll try that tomorrow. 00:57:18 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:21 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:58:40 -!- JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:48 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:00 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 01:01:19 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:01:39 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:51 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:47 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:15:02 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:15:41 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:53 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has left #lisp 01:16:04 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 01:16:05 -!- sellout is now known as Guest72289 01:16:31 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-128-8.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:16:45 -!- Guest72289 is now known as sellout- 01:18:40 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:54 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 01:25:26 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:26:00 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:05 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:17 knob [~knob@64.237.232.27] has joined #lisp 01:36:27 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-79-177.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:37:24 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 01:37:30 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:38:13 -!- mradot [~mradot@cpe-66-91-66-172.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:45:33 Okeg [~viz@152.79-160-155.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:54 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:11 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 01:47:20 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:49 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.145] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:43 gt`` [~user@202.80.46.186] has joined #lisp 01:51:36 hi I am looking for a library for authenticating users on a windows machine any help appreciated 01:54:27 what keyboards are you guys using? I am struggling a bit with sever RSI atm. 01:57:16 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:22 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:57:37 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 01:59:48 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 02:00:27 -!- Okeg [~viz@152.79-160-155.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 02:03:56 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:37 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-79-177.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:27 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 02:10:34 paul0 [~paul0@177.42.54.57] has joined #lisp 02:10:44 -!- Takumo [~TakumoKat@unaffiliated/takumokatekari] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:11:10 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 02:13:41 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 02:13:57 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:10 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-ilmiazivbwgdrnmz] has joined #lisp 02:16:11 Does anyone here have gentoo? It looks like ebuild for cl-ppcre from lisp overlay is broken. Does anybody have such problem? 02:16:21 JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.13] has joined #lisp 02:18:36 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:19:57 hitecnologys: Use Quicklisp 02:20:11 That's really the only way to install and manage Lisp libraries 02:20:15 -!- krsree [~krsree@106.51.165.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:21:03 Of course I use it, but I'm just curious why don't anyone fix this ebuild. 02:22:34 Who maintains it? Maybe they are not aware of any problem. 02:23:40 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 02:24:14 Takumo [~TakumoKat@unaffiliated/takumokatekari] has joined #lisp 02:24:31 Idk who maintains it. If I knew, I'd definitely report them. 02:27:21 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:07 Ooh. Just found optima. Neat. 02:34:03 junf [~user@i118-21-134-253.s30.a048.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:34:16 nialo` [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:47 Xach: is it possible to output some info about a pkg without ql:install it? 02:35:16 zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:56 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:39:26 Re: command-line-parsing: the winner is either getopt or unix-options. (disqualified: lisp-gflags and command-line-arguments, because they can't handle multiple sets of options for different subcommands). 02:39:35 And now, g'night for realz. 02:42:37 i had a bug for one hour because i thought 2 + 1 + 3 = 5 02:43:09 what is the difference between eql the function and eql the type specifier? 02:43:10 Quadrescence: How embarrassing! 02:43:32 yes; i was translating old fortran code 02:43:54 PuercoPop: (typep x `(eql ,y)) == (eql x y) 02:44:10 -!- JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:44:17 i.e., eql the type specifier acts like it's using eql the function to do the type discrimination 02:44:28 So you mean the type specifier is what is called when on a defmethod eql-specializer? 02:44:55 specializers are different from specifiers (yes it's arcane) but yeah, basically. 02:45:04 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:10 *PuercoPop* nods 02:47:15 Ok here is a another question. I ask not because I want to revolt against CL but because I want to understand as to why those with more experience have decided the other way. Why is not everything an object/method? Or at least why is not eql a method so I could specifier my out eql comparisons for doing eql-specializer dispatch (which seems really powerful) 02:47:28 AriaMK [~AriaMK@c-71-193-24-118.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:22 clos is more expensive than normal functions. 02:48:44 eql shouldn't really be specialized anyway. it't used all over the place in the semantics. it's not a general equality predicate. 02:48:55 So for performance reasons? Could I for example shadow eql as to do what I intended? 02:49:18 No. You could make your own specializers using the MOP, but that's a pretty weird thing to do. 02:49:33 What exactly is it that you're trying to do? There's probably a better way than redefining standard functions willy nilly. 02:50:23 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:50:33 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 02:51:37 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Client Quit] 02:51:50 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:58 teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.143.249] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:21 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 02:52:32 Nothing in particular, I just learned about eql-specializers yesterday and it allowed me to refactor perfectly. I was just wondering how could I use it. 02:53:24 hugod [~user@76.65.143.249] has joined #lisp 02:56:45 leo2007: what kind of info? 02:57:14 leo2007: there is some info available in an index 02:57:25 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:57:47 brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has joined #lisp 02:59:08 -!- brianmwaters [41b78511@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.183.133.17] has left #lisp 02:59:22 Xach: something like a summary of what a pkg does? 03:03:03 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:09 one last thing, is correctly to say eql-specializer dispatches on values? 03:06:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-79-177.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:52 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 03:08:50 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:23 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 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[~nostoi@150.Red-81-36-253.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite Geschlossen] 11:05:02 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:05:50 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 11:07:23 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:11:57 fe[nl]ix: bordeaux-threads commit efede1dd4 breaks support for ACL 8.1. Do you care? 11:15:03 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:15:41 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:20:22 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.97.72] has left #lisp 11:38:12 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:25 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 11:47:16 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 11:47:31 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:48:25 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:50:23 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 11:51:02 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:53:41 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:54:01 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 11:58:25 -!- balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:59:07 Okeg [~viz@152.79-160-155.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:37 balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 12:01:39 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 12:06:05 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 12:06:42 luis: not much 12:07:04 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:26 I don't have access to an old Allegro 12:10:12 luis: if you are willing to maintain the Allegro code, I can resurrect that workaround 12:14:59 -!- ogamita` [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:03 peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181118168.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:17:04 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:21 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:21:30 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:24:41 petekaz [~user@99-99-189-187.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:06 peterhil- [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 12:27:28 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181118168.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:28:38 Do we have any medics here? I have a question. 12:28:54 Lisp medics perhaps 12:29:34 sorry if its too offtopic. it's just that i think i might have damaged my neck 12:30:41 what makes you think that this is a good place to ask for help? 12:30:47 it might be better to consult a doctor 12:31:07 idk, maybe just to share a story? heheh 12:31:45 Okeg: is it lisp related? 12:32:00 not really, but it's about a lisper. 12:37:38 also, H4ns. I can't see ym doctor. 12:37:43 Okeg: are you able to freely rotate it left and right? 12:38:00 yes, but it requires alot of force. 12:38:22 Okeg: does it hurt or somethign? 12:38:37 it feels very tight, like how your muscles feels after a workout. also, it sometimes makes popping sounds. 12:38:54 hitecnologys: it's off topci 12:38:57 topic even 12:39:03 jdz: yeah, sorry. 12:39:31 yeah, sorry guys. My friends said this channel was about lisp and the life of lispers, so i kinda misunderstood things. 12:43:58 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:44:18 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:51 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 12:45:38 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:46:41 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-5-54.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:30 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 -!- junf [~user@i118-21-134-253.s30.a048.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:41 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:47:41 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 12:50:25 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 12:50:28 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 12:51:23 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:53:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:55:22 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:57:57 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 12:58:58 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:59:26 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:04:00 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:20 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 13:12:28 JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.10] has joined #lisp 13:16:56 zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:40 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:24:47 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:10 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:32:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-68.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:54 fe[nl]ix: ok. I'll think about it. If I have to use bordeaux-threads on 8.1 for some reason, I'll send you a patch. 13:36:23 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@109.68.237.29] has joined #lisp 13:40:22 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:50 *hamroctopus* notices a tumbleweed 13:42:52 Ok, I installed stumpwm. Does it have virtual desktops or I should emerge emacs? 13:45:13 Documentation doesn't say anything about it. 13:46:01 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-35-153.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:47:26 hitecnologys: yes, check docs for #'gnewbg (and maybe #'gnew, it's been too long ago for me) 13:47:59 protist [~protist@105.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 13:48:23 hitecnologys: #'gnext and #'gprev to switch between them IIRC (there's also other function for switching between them) 13:49:32 aerique: oh, thanks 13:50:00 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 13:51:16 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:51:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:52:13 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:23 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:54:00 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:54:46 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 13:56:16 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:30 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 14:00:46 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:01:41 Is there a common lisp equivalent to sscanf()? 14:02:04 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@109.68.237.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:02:06 JasonFelice: not quite 14:02:16 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:26 JasonFelice: what do you want to do? 14:02:27 nicdev` [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 14:02:54 luis: Want to convert "Apr 27, 2009" to an encoded time. 14:03:29 I could READ-FROM-STRING if the comma weren't there :) 14:03:47 JasonFelice: you could use a regular expression and ppcre:register-groups-bind 14:04:00 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:15 JasonFelice: have you considered using cliki.net/net-telent-date for instance? 14:04:36 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 14:04:45 not sure if it supports that particular format 14:04:49 -!- xristos is now known as Guest20386 14:04:57 but maybe one of these does: http://www.cliki.net/time 14:05:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:05:49 -!- Guest20386 is now known as xristos` 14:06:02 -!- xristos` is now known as xristos 14:06:10 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:26 JasonFelice: http://chaitanyagupta.com/lisp/chronicity/ looks promising 14:06:31 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:06:32 leo2007: i've started using quickdocks.org to find out about projects before loading 14:07:38 *dlowe* should really put a general parser into local-time 14:07:44 dlowe: +1 14:07:58 err 14:08:01 JasonFelice: you could try to temporary rebind *readtable* to make it read comma as something different 14:08:08 quickdocs.org 14:08:26 hitecnologys: Hehe.. Baby steps for me on common lisp. :) 14:08:52 JasonFelice: read this http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node192.html 14:09:14 hitecnologys: it's not a good idea to use that document as a reference for standard CL 14:09:54 I know what a readtable is, from Scheme. Haven't figured out all of the differences yet. 14:09:55 suggesting that a modified readtable would be a good approach to parsing dates does not sound very sane to me either. 14:10:23 Xach: I gave it only for quick overview. But anyway, why not? 14:10:43 hitecnologys: It is out of date and differs with the final standard in some respects. 14:10:56 Xach: ah, ok 14:10:57 It is good supplementary material, but not primary. 14:10:57 JasonFelice: playing with readtables might be interesting, but not for solving your particular problem. 14:11:32 H4ns: that's just me, I like insane solutions for simple problems. 14:11:35 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:11:56 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:12:54 *bhyde* has become addicted to optima: (match "Apr 27, 2009" ((ppcre "(...) (\\d+), (\\d+)" month day year) `(,month ,day ,year))) -> ("Apr" "27" "2009") 14:13:22 bhyde: blog about it? 14:13:27 bhyde: that looks pretty cool 14:13:53 teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has joined #lisp 14:14:16 also: http://dlowe.net/blog/ 14:14:49 fresh 14:15:04 Xach: i want to get my javascript->parenscript converter a bit more complete first https://github.com/bhyde/backward-parenscript/blob/master/main.lisp#L70 14:15:13 ok ok 14:15:42 That's, like, the opposite of fresh 14:16:11 dlowe: did you know about chronicity? 14:16:11 also http://weitz.de/cl-interpol/#regular 14:16:14 dlowe, i've once used cl-interpol for that 14:16:31 luis: I did. 14:16:41 bhyde: cl-interpol doesn't make nice neat "match" objects 14:16:59 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:21 sure, they're a little wasteful. Makes for readable code, though 14:18:22 dlowe: yup many ways to be happy :) 14:18:23 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:37 it also doesn't do the flags at the end, I note 14:19:05 well, I wouldn't expect it to, anyway. It just does strings. 14:19:35 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:20:11 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:21:17 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:21:26 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Client Quit] 14:22:05 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:24:02 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:24:23 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp237.dmi.ens.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:24:38 hrmm. 14:24:40 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 14:25:11 WHy can't i (ecase (intern (string-upcase month)) ('jan 1) ('feb 2) ...)? 14:25:34 Seems like i haven't understood this symbols-in-packages thing? 14:26:23 JasonFelice: 'jan is resolved at read time, to whatever package you are in according to (in-package) in that file 14:26:36 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:26:38 JasonFelice: intern interns into whatever package *package* is bound to at run time. 14:26:52 Ah. 14:26:59 JasonFelice: you can pass the package name as a second argument to intern, and often that is a very good idea. 14:27:10 IMHO, interning something at runtime is suspect 14:27:21 *H4ns* tends to find-symbol 14:27:35 Oh. 14:27:37 Makes sense. 14:28:01 jhj [~jhj@unaffiliated/jhj] has joined #lisp 14:28:14 JasonFelice: you could also use (1+ (position month-symbol '(jan feb mar ... 14:28:26 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:59 or (1+ (position month '("jan" "feb" "mar" ...) :test #'string-equal)) 14:29:13 and remember to deal with invalid input 14:29:24 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 14:29:30 hm. yeah. 1+ will blow up there if not found 14:29:51 so many details to deal with on such a simple problem! 14:30:25 programming is hard. let's signal error conditions! 14:30:53 Heh. It's a throw-away script, only ostensibly to get a result. Mostly to make me learn common lisp. 14:30:54 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:06 Ooh, I should put it up on my jigcode.com. I haven't touched that in years. 14:31:29 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 14:31:50 mhbauer [user@nat/ibm/x-xsswpazrsjizbmwd] has joined #lisp 14:33:07 hashcat [~chatzilla@106.107.133.249] has joined #lisp 14:33:12 JasonFelice: amusing aside - (case x ((7 5 3 2 1) :small-prime)) works because case options can take lists. Amusingly (case x (`1 )) is read as (case x ((quote 1) )) so it will match if x is bound to the symbol quote  or to put it another way, the keys in a case statement are already quoted 14:33:50 bhyde: oh, hehe. 14:34:57 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:35:34 bhyde: that is interesting 14:36:26 it looks like remove-if-not is not maintaining the list ordering? 14:36:35 I guess it's implementation dependant right? 14:37:01 dim: For all these functions, elements not removed or deleted occur in the same order in the result as they did in sequence. 14:37:05 For all these functions, elements not removed or deleted occur in the same order in the result as they did in SEQUENCE. 14:37:05 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:14 ahah you've beaten me to it Xach, again 14:38:55 krsree [~krsree@106.51.149.226] has joined #lisp 14:38:55 dim: what observation led to your question? 14:39:24 evil: (let ('1 #'3) (+ quote function)) 14:39:29 I have an ordered list as input, use remove-if-not, then the list is not sorted anymore, I'm trying to figure out where my assumptions are wrong 14:40:33 dim: you're probably hanging onto the old list somewhere instead of discarding it once a destructive function has messed with it 14:40:43 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 14:40:50 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:08 I don't think I'm using any destructuve function on that list 14:41:20 can you paste a minimal test case 14:41:54 I think what's happening is that the input list is not sorted, I just believed it was 14:42:30 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:43:49 dim, be sure to do the sorting after you remove the elements! 14:44:18 unless you're removing by some threshold function, then sort before 14:46:20 carlo5m [~carlo5m@71.198.252.62] has joined #lisp 14:48:16 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.70.191] has joined #lisp 14:48:16 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.70.191] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:16 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 14:48:25 yeah, thanks 14:48:27 Possible to do lisp and be purely functional? ...wouldn't you have to write programs that don't set ANY variables? How would that work? 14:48:34 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:48:46 theseb, what? 14:49:07 theseb, yes it is possible to be purely functional but it is usually very inconvenient 14:49:45 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:46 Quadrescence: i'm not even sure how to "inconveniently" do it...how do entire app without variables?...also...would entire program have to be a single expression? 14:50:08 you can use variables, you just can't modify them 14:51:12 yes your program would be an "expression" 14:52:16 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:10 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:54:53 -!- zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:49 Quadrescence: oh hey....that's much nicer.....you CAN use vars...yay! 14:55:53 thanks 14:56:12 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:56:23 peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181118168.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:56:56 Quadrescence: wait..how would you implement something like an accumulator that kept the running total of the 1000 checks you were adding up to balance your checking account 14:57:09 ? 14:57:18 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 14:57:25 -!- krsree [~krsree@106.51.149.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:57:34 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 14:57:46 theseb: if you were being strict, you wouldn't 14:57:54 theseb: normally you'd use recursion instead 14:58:02 (let ((new-account (make-account :balance (1+ (account-balance old-account))))) ) 14:58:46 that is purely functional there 14:58:56 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-aeuwgjpuftbzztgm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:18 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:00:11 peterhil- [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 15:02:18 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:43 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:22 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@cs181118168.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:03:50 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 15:04:18 drmeister [~drmeister@S01060016cbad556d.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:21 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:07:41 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:11:47 francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:06 what the use of a library like scexp ? 15:14:13 francogrex: enables nicer macros, for one 15:15:28 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-43.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 15:15:42 scexp? 15:15:45 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:48 s-expression syntax for C code. 15:19:48 *bhyde* loads lots of dead web pages... 15:21:21 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 15:21:43 ivadasz [~user@dslb-188-110-166-249.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:05 -!- rk[zZz] is now known as ryankarason 15:22:09 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 15:23:11 yes but who would take the trouble to write this syntax that in itself does nothing at all, in ordfer to translate it to C... might as well directly right in c 15:23:43 project stella on the other hand is a little bit more useful 15:23:53 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:56 because the stella code can be evaluated by itself 15:24:39 -!- ph88 [2e2c9618@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.44.150.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:24:45 sexprs have some nice editor support 15:25:01 and I imagine it'd be easier to manipulate C code programmatically 15:25:22 francogrex: i've often generated reams of C code using common lisp starting from a domain specific language which states my problem more transparently. 15:25:23 it can also be useful to restrict macro authors to a syntax that can be mechanically converted to something safe 15:25:31 *C macro 15:25:47 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@71.198.252.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:11 maybe the macro thing is somehow a bit useful, but that's it 15:26:45 I just thought, have anyone tried modifing *readtable* to make it read something completely different, like C? 15:26:46 macros suffice 15:27:02 hitecnologys: yes, someone has. there are limits to what can be usefully done with the readtable, though. 15:27:31 hitecnologys: I think vacietis makes use of the readtable for that purpose 15:27:33 hitecnologys: there is xmlisp 15:27:42 for example, the package marker syntax can't be easily tweaked with readtables. 15:28:00 Hm, cool. 15:29:25 I once almost wrote html reader. It was v0.1 of cl-hctsmsl. 15:29:34 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:29:41 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:04 But then I realized that there's no profit in html that looks like html. 15:32:53 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:33:16 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:16 francogrex: For example consider getting the assignment to implement a dozen wireshark decoders like https://github.com/AlanDeSmet/minecraft-dissector/blob/master/packet-minecraft.c from specs - http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol 15:36:18 hitecnologys: i wrote something like that, an example file: https://github.com/erikcharlebois/camp/blob/master/test-input/let.ca 15:36:19 can somebody give me a link to scexp  i'm hearing good things about sc https://github.com/JonathanSmith/sc-language 15:37:09 [ is a reader macro for C type parsing, { for C expression parsing, #{ for C statements, #[ for C declarations (top level C forms) 15:37:42 erikc: I meant pure C syntax, but this looks nice too. 15:38:52 apparently local-time:format-timestamp format is so weird as not to prepend the hours or minutes with a 0, so that you can get 17:8 for 17:08... is it me again or? 15:38:57 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:38:59 hitecnologys: oh, https://github.com/vsedach/Vacietis 15:39:10 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2D7B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:32 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:40:41 erikc: oh wow. 15:41:30 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 15:43:59 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 15:44:07 dim: uh, using what format? 15:44:25 format-timestamp is quite flexible 15:45:52 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:43 dim: you mean format-timestring? 15:46:56 seems to work for me 15:48:55 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:50:25 e.g. '(:year :day :month "-" :hour ":" :min) 15:50:40 sorry was buzy changing that to hand crafted format 15:51:09 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:52:12 do (:hour 2) or it'll do that 15:52:50 your padding has to be explicit 15:53:36 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:53:37 oh, I now remember trying that and seeing it fail 15:53:42 redoing the testing now 15:53:44 thanks 15:54:06 the format is (field padding padchar) 15:54:12 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has left #lisp 15:54:18 padding defaults to 0, padchar defaults to #\0 15:54:48 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:55:02 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 15:57:04 that works now 15:57:15 thanks again, can't remember what I did to get it wrong 15:58:24 Thanks for the help on stuff. The final result was this, by the way: http://cl.ly/image/1l1r1D361O0t 15:58:46 Estimated points versus actual days (with lots of methodological errors) on stories for our team. 15:59:05 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:28 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 16:00:49 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has joined #lisp 16:02:01 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:30 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Quit: erikc] 16:05:06 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 16:06:01 k0001 [~k0001@host153.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:07:24 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:07:35 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:16 What're good Common Lisp books, aside from Common Lisp the Language, 2nd edition and On Lisp. Er, not books. PDFs I can load onto kindle? 16:08:57 Practical Common Lisp, but I don't know about PDFs 16:09:53 yati [~yati@122.169.85.25] has joined #lisp 16:11:31 There appears to be a PDF in the wild. Not sure if I should pay somebody first. 16:13:37 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d817e12.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:05 -!- francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:14:44 JasonFelice: for a long time the PDF was available at no cost from apress's website. 16:15:54 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:04 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:17:34 -!- HDurer [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:51 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has left #lisp 16:18:19 *Xach* must switch from home-rolled FORMAT-TIME to format-timestring 16:18:51 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:21:12 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:47 -!- yati [~yati@122.169.85.25] has quit 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17:20:57 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:10 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:29 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:09 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:25:28 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 17:26:23 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 17:28:48 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has joined #lisp 17:28:50 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:29:08 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 17:30:13 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-82-178.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:31:22 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 -!- protist [~protist@105.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:33:56 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:08 -!- mhbauer [user@nat/ibm/x-xsswpazrsjizbmwd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:40:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:47 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 17:42:27 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:20 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:35 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:58 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:47:12 -!- hashcat [~chatzilla@106.107.133.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:48:14 -!- yati [~yati@122.170.24.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:47 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:53:27 tagae [~user@152.73.31.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:09 the HTML version of PCL is probably more promising than the PDF if your goal is to read it on a Kindle 17:59:36 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:44 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:17 carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 18:04:12 -!- carlo5m [~carlo5m@209.49.100.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:21 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:04:48 seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:09 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:12:10 ARGH 18:12:28 why can't other languages have a sane number type system with automatic bignums? 18:12:47 Java's Big* is incredibly obnoxious 18:15:20 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:31 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:48 mathrick_: that and rationals 18:18:09 yeah 18:18:40 well PostgreSQL has the numerical system (but no rationals by default) 18:19:02 all is left is to consider SQL as a real programming language, which it is nowadays ;) 18:19:39 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:17 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:20:18 -!- rptb1 [~Adium@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:21:23 dim: SQL is fine as long as you use it for things SQL was made for. But you still need to put the logic and calculations somewhere, and that's not going to be SQL 18:22:13 well, it's incredible how much you can put in SQL really 18:23:09 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 18:24:49 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:25:35 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:25:41 Hello 18:26:53 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:28 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:35 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:29:35 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:56 dim: yeah, though most of the time you should probably be using an SQL compiler which knows the dialect your RDBMS speaks and can adapt. CL-PEREC is pretty impressive in how tight SQL it can generate, but last I checked, it still had all the hallmarks of Attilaware :) 18:30:05 Re-L [~Arttt@23-100-202-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:10 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 18:30:16 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:30:26 the recursive ops in the latest SQL variants are a really, truly power-extending addition 18:31:54 mathrick_: , dim : One of the largest systems in one of the largest music labels in the world, a huge system, was abour 80% SQL and 20% C#. They had 1.5k lines stored procedures, they did everything with triggers, stored procedures and sq functions. 18:32:01 oh, and they didnt have any foreign key :> 18:32:08 ewww 18:32:10 -!- Re-L [~Arttt@23-100-202-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:32:17 that's not using SQL for what SQL should be used 18:34:30 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:38 ASau` [~user@p4FF96C9E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:58 mathrick_: yeah, the way I came into contact with that system was because the company i worked for was going to replace it, or at least parts of it, so that's relatively good. 18:35:16 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:35:17 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:35:36 ebobby: btw, having your 80% at only 1.5kLOC of stored procedures is actually very terse :) 18:36:22 no 18:36:31 i didnt mean to say they had ONE 1.5k stored procedure 18:36:42 i meant those were of the largest, but they had many 18:37:08 oh, I read it as "they had 1.5kLOC of stored procedures in total", not "they had stored procedures, some of which were 1.5kLOC" 18:37:13 the latter is terrible 18:37:20 in average, all of their stored procedures had hundreds of lines 18:37:25 and they had many of them. 18:37:28 yeah 18:37:33 about 200 tables, etc etc 18:37:44 the first backup we got of the database, was 1TB compressed. 18:37:51 so it wasnt a small database either. 18:37:57 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96933.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:38:03 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:38:21 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:26 heh 18:38:52 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-79-177.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:05 one of these days I *will* actually master CL-PEREC and use its compiler for good 18:39:24 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:39:25 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 18:40:07 (ultimately I want to make it so that it can automatically go through memcached without extra code. That's what ORMs are for, dammit) 18:41:00 -!- tagae [~user@152.73.31.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:43:03 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:26 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 18:43:43 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:07 -!- sellout is now known as Guest30282 18:45:47 -!- trigen [~MSX@cppse.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:46:04 -!- Guest30282 is now known as sellout- 18:46:21 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 18:47:27 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-148-22.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:26 -!- yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has quit [Quit: WeeChat, The Better IRC Client: http://weechat.org/] 18:52:35 I think if you're going to use an ORM, you shouldn't be using SQL 18:53:12 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 18:53:54 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:33 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:03 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has joined #lisp 18:57:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:58:58 mathrick_: don't target more than 1 SQL implementation, and pick PostgreSQL 18:59:27 ORM are good for Time To Market in some cases, but as soon as you've reached version 1.0, then you need to get rid of them, usually 19:00:37 200 tables is normal for an medium complex application, not counting the partitions, 1TB is beginning to be on the huge size because of remote backups and replication setup delays 19:02:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:11 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 19:03:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 19:03:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:03:13 zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:23 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:03:59 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 19:03:59 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 19:03:59 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 19:04:42 Is there a canonical way of building a stumpwm binary from quicklisp in my .xsession or do I have to figure it out manually in my lisp? 19:04:43 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:05:05 tkmm [~tkmm@cpe-72-224-108-8.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 -!- tkmm [~tkmm@cpe-72-224-108-8.maine.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 19:06:16 s/building/building and running/ 19:07:27 nvm, think I found it in the readme in the quicklisp dist 19:08:14 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 19:08:36 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:11:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S01060016cbad556d.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:10 Could someone suggest me a good read to be able to compare sbcl and c memory footprint? 19:14:00 I'm comparing 2 network protocols, one developed in C and the other in SBCL. The sbcl implementation results in around 2-3% more memory usage. I'd like to justify this difference 19:16:11 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 19:18:54 Killed buffer 19:21:01 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:21:16 Kenjin_: I don't know of any good reads, sorry. 2-3% sounds pretty good, especially if you consider that objects in CL usually carry more information about themselves than in C. 19:21:25 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 19:21:29 Xach: indeed 19:22:03 unicode strings come to mind as being significantly different from C storage 19:22:07 also just the fact that there's a GC right? 19:22:14 Is there any generally recommend reading on adding soft types to your lisp code for optimization. cl-6502 has a pretty flat profile... 19:22:20 that increases the memory footprint 19:22:38 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has joined #lisp 19:22:41 I had a system's memory explode due to loading a large number of strings instead of simple-base-strings 19:23:33 redline6561: compile your code with opimization (speed 3) and read the resulting notes 19:24:02 I figured that was about it. Thanks. 19:24:37 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25:27 don't forget to declare ftypes for your functions 19:27:37 svs_ [~svs@71-222-225-188.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:33 When should I use declare vs declaim? 19:30:04 should i be worried when the introduction i'm reading repeteadly mentions the year 1989? 19:30:28 inkjetunito: Not necessarily. What's the introduction? 19:31:01 redline6561: common lisp the language, 2nd edition 19:31:14 heh. That isn't an introduction. :) 19:31:19 inkjetunito: that's a nice book, but slightly outdated 19:31:22 But also, no. I still use it. 19:31:30 and it's not a beginner text, to be sure 19:31:37 minion: tell inkjetunito about pcl 19:31:37 inkjetunito: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:31:49 redline6561: declaim is for top-level declarations 19:31:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-79-177.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:32:04 dlowe: thanks 19:32:10 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d817e12.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:46 i'm not learning the first language, but this definitely is the first functional one. 19:33:02 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.27.1] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 19:33:10 CL isn't functional :) 19:33:20 except in that it has first-class functions 19:33:35 CL is agnostic, it is a 'programmer amplifier' 19:33:56 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:06 that's the dogma, yes 19:37:33 dlowe: how should i classify it instead? 19:37:49 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:05 multi-paradigm? 19:39:27 Parentheses Oriented Programming Language? 19:39:56 oww. so i'm learning another C++ that has more builtin numerical types :( 19:40:38 inkjetunito: it's not another C++. It's quite pleasant to use. 19:40:44 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 19:41:01 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:05 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 19:41:51 what's the current lib to use to run system commands (such as git pull) from lisp directly? uiop already? 19:41:54 and if you're used to C++, there are a few things that will completely blow your mind 19:42:04 dim: tried trivial-shell? 19:42:27 not yet, would you recommend it? 19:42:35 inferior-shell is what i've been using in coleslaw. trivial-shell had problems on ccl at some point recently, I thought. 19:43:09 but it is small and simple, otherwise. 19:47:17 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d817e12.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:51:01 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:23 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:54:56 hi 19:55:09 is there a pdf version of PCL? It doesn't need to be free 19:57:01 print the webpages as pdf? 19:58:13 ikki [~ikki@201.164.190.172] has joined #lisp 19:58:34 never mind, I think I found it 20:07:17 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 20:07:23 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-62-99.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 20:07:34 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-62-99.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 20:07:34 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 20:09:06 -!- svs_ [~svs@71-222-225-188.albq.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:10:35 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 20:10:48 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 20:10:48 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 20:14:57 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:52 heuhheuhalways [~lilabe@static-50-43-53-200.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:11 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:19:31 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Rated M for MANLY] 20:19:49 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-150-68.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:19:57 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:20:39 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:28 -!- heuhheuhalways [~lilabe@static-50-43-53-200.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:45 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:23:24 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:23:45 peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-5-6-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 20:24:22 Re-L [~Arttt@23-100-202-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:23 -!- Re-L [~Arttt@23-100-202-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:01 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:12 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:29:25 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:29:26 Okeg: there's #lispcafe for random chat between or about lispers. 20:29:39 Okeg: but then, the probability to find a medic on #lispcafe is rahter low 20:29:52 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 20:31:33 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:12 drmeister [~drmeister@S01060016cbad556d.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S01060016cbad556d.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:35 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 20:34:57 pjb: wtf are you talking about? 20:36:11 he is nonchalantly advertising lispcafe, the bubbling with conversation chat room 20:36:16 dlowe: he is talking to a trollish person who appeared here at noon. 20:36:32 Quadrescence: snrk 20:36:37 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:36:52 francogrex [~user@218.97-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:37:15 what's with http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-rdbms/ ? where is it as a tarball? 20:37:19 weird. I must have pre-/ignored him because from my perspective, pjb just started talking out of nowhere 20:37:49 nope. oh, well. nvm. 20:38:16 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:38:27 dlowe: perhaps you should contribute a patch to erc, so that it forgets all the message from n-2? 20:40:44 pjb: thanks pjb 20:41:10 also, sorry if i seem trollish. 20:41:34 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:50 heuhheuhalways [~lilabe@static-50-43-53-200.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:16 josemanuel [~josemanue@128.190.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:46:30 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:51:32 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:51 -!- francogrex [~user@218.97-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has 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