00:14:16 -!- bitonic` [~user@2.124.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:39 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:21 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 00:24:39 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:02 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:21 -!- Sagane__ [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:25 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:39:06 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:46:23 -!- icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 00:47:20 Phineas [a228d291@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.40.210.145] has joined #lisp 00:47:44 -!- Phineas is now known as Guest73720 00:50:05 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 00:52:45 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:55 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.32] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleDip] 00:54:16 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:10 nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba468b.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:14 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-rjizmfauwmzsweti] has joined #lisp 00:57:37 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:06 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@51.202.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:08:17 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:27 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:11:52 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:27 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:20:08 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:26:23 -!- Guest73720 [a228d291@gateway/web/freenode/ip.162.40.210.145] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:34:52 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:31 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 01:45:26 using a struct, is there a way to set a field default value depending on the value of another field? 01:45:41 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:48 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:45:49 I'd write your own constructor that handles that. 01:46:08 ebobby: You can do it with classes. Why not use those? 01:46:12 the macro uses gensym to generate the actual names of the keyword parameters for the default constructor :< 01:46:25 so using the name in the default expresion doesnt work :/ 01:46:30 e.g., make the fundamental constructor %make-foo, and then write a make-foo that calls that, having handled your business logic. 01:46:52 Zhivago: clever. 01:47:07 loke: I dont like using classes when I just need a simple named data holder 01:47:19 ebobby: Why? 01:48:17 because I dont 01:48:39 ebobby: Well, that's somewhat arbitrary, don't you think? 01:48:50 just like using a class when a struct does suffice 01:48:54 Well, he can't spell "don't", so don't set your expectations high. 01:49:03 There are some performance benefits for using structs in some cases, but other than that there is little reason to use them. 01:49:10 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-27.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:14 ebobby: I wouldn't say that it is clever -- expedient, perhaps. 01:49:44 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 01:50:37 Zhivago: so, just because I typed "dont" as opposed to "don't" I cannot be expected to produce any sort of intelligence reply? 01:52:05 Well, carelessness in writing carries through to thinking. 01:52:37 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:37 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.218.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:55:24 Zhivago: that seems to be a very strong argument, in this particular case, I just didn't type the '. But you don't know the reason why I may or may not include that. I may be using a phone or even my keyboard may have that key broken, maybe english is not my native language. Who knows?. 01:55:47 yet you felt compelled to imply that I am an idiot, just because. 01:55:47 Sure, so why have high expectations? :) 01:55:58 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:56:03 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.150.121.157] has joined #lisp 01:58:12 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 01:58:19 Actually, I'd take the time to re-read your conversation. 01:58:46 "because I dont" is a pretty strong indicator of the level of critical thinking that you're happy with. 01:58:58 If you're not happy with that, raise your standards. 02:00:35 How about a car analogy? Those always help: "How can I drive 200 km/h in my 1965 WV Beetle?" - "Buy a faster car, get a better engine?" - "I want to use my Beetle when I don't need anything more fancy" 02:00:56 I know the advantages and disadvantages of structs and classes, in this particular code I am writing I see no reason to use a class as opposed to an struct. Just a matter of taste. Maybe just the remnants of my previous languages experiences. 02:01:43 I think it was on LoL that I read that one of the nice things about Lisp is you can do whatever you want in many ways and you don't need style to dictate the way you approach whatever. 02:02:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.150.121.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:02:58 lisp: taste optional. 02:03:03 I dared to answer a tiny question, on which promptly you gave a nice solution that I probably wouldn't use in any interesting piece of code, I am just exploring something on the repl and I needed to get that off the way. 02:03:36 yet, even though it wasn't needed at all since I didn't attack you on anyway, I even gave you a compliment on the fast and useful answer, you felt like implying I am an idiot. 02:03:39 Just because. 02:04:02 s/anyway/any way/ 02:04:33 Zhivago: This is why people think lisp community is not helpful and snobby. You drove the topic off course and devolved it into grammar equals intelligence debate. :( 02:05:40 I dared to type many words on which you probably will find many faults, or maybe you will attack my reasoning because is different from yours and since you probably believe yourself to be very intelligent (which I don't doubt at all) you will feel the need to find more arguments to attack me. 02:05:55 hwiersma2 [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:11 or well, let's not use "attack", let's just say, to show how intelligent you are, by telling how much of an idiot I am. 02:06:57 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:07:18 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:08:22 nightshade427: Sadly, I've found that behavior happen many times. 02:09:30 ebobby: The only person talking about how much of an idiot you are ... is you. 02:10:30 ah well, I am most definitely one because here I am arguing with someone on the internet. 02:10:39 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:10:51 thanks for your help, it was much appreciated. (no sarcasm) 02:16:00 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:36 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:43 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 02:22:07 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:23:35 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.211.228] has joined #lisp 02:36:14 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:37:24 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-oimazdamexshtkgw] has joined #lisp 02:37:39 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 02:50:21 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba468b.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:53:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.211.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:01:10 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 03:01:44 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:51 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 03:07:46 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 03:12:51 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.205.109] has joined #lisp 03:13:54 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:55 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:31 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:13 I think ebobby is a pretty smart guy, zhivago on the other hand 03:26:14 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:27:19 Kado [~Whitewolf@ool-457a9364.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:23 ... probably has a different opinion on ebobby? 03:29:08 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:29:58 -!- Kado [~Whitewolf@ool-457a9364.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:35 -!- Whatnow [~Whitewolf@ool-457a9364.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:33:07 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 03:37:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:42 Ryxai [~Whitewolf@ool-457a9364.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:26 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:51:51 -!- NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: NihilistDandy] 03:53:11 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:27 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:08 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:05:42 http://paste.lisp.org/+2YCE Can someone help me figure out why this is not returning the 4th Fibonacci number 04:08:06 ckoch_: what makes you think it should? Have you tried executing this short loop by hand? 04:09:29 no, let me do that. 04:09:53 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:10:49 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-148-22.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:18 ic, I need to be storing the result of (+ (1- k) n)) and decf and incf are not the same as 1- and 1+ as I thought? 04:13:30 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 04:15:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:17:02 madrik [~user@122.168.253.199] has joined #lisp 04:22:59 p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:37 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:59 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@64.30.112.86] has joined #lisp 04:29:23 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:14 ;/w3 04:31:34 Is there a more general looping term to replace in/across that will handle both lists and vectors? It seems sort of counter-intuitive to have two separate terms. 04:32:49 I think ITERATE will, can't remember. 04:33:33 cool. I'm reading bout iterate now. 04:38:07 ckoch786: incf and decf are (setf arg (1+ arg)) etc 04:38:16 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:3068:2a5e:f70c:f97f] has joined #lisp 04:42:55 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:43:51 -!- bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:44:02 jack_rabbit: map. 04:44:56 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:45:10 pkhuong, Doh. Should've thought of that. 04:52:17 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:10 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:56:46 teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has joined #lisp 04:58:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.6.48] has joined #lisp 04:58:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.6.48] has quit [Changing host] 04:58:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:02:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 05:03:10 vinodh42 [~vinodh42@175.141.245.247] has joined #lisp 05:04:50 i installed ecl on openbsd. i'm trying to run restas. i quickloaded restas (and it's dependencies). When I when i try a simple world i get a page not found error (with the hunchentoot). Have any of you encountered this problem? 05:05:48 Are you trying to serve a dynamic page or a static? 05:06:21 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.19.23] has joined #lisp 05:06:21 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.19.23] has quit [Changing host] 05:06:21 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 05:06:22 it's a simple static page. (Just prints out

Hello World

05:06:53 <|3b|> i think restas API changed recently, so could be the example you have doesn't match 05:07:05 Er.. no... sorry. A static page is a file on the server 05:07:27 i wonder what I'm doing wrong..... i can see the hunchentoot logo. hmmm...... okay that makes sense could be the api. 05:07:38 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:07:39 p_nathan: oh i see -- i thought you meant was the content static. 05:08:18 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 05:08:54 p_nathan: i used the simple example at the top of http://restas.lisper.ru/en/tutorial/hello-world.html#hello-world 05:09:17 -!- krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:09:37 <|3b|> hmm, looks right 05:10:04 <|3b|> and seems to work here 05:10:10 <|3b|> how did you get restas? 05:10:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:10:46 |3b| : I think that ecl + openbsd is a weird combination. I used (ql:quickload "restas"). Before that i used (ql:quickload "hunchentoot") 05:12:30 <|3b|> hmm, wonder if quicklisp has older API, i'm using it directly from git 05:13:12 i wonder if i built ecl wrongly. I used a flag --disable-threads during the configuration. i wonder what --disable-threads does? Oh, that's a good idea! Maybe I'll try the git version. 05:13:48 <|3b|> you probably want threads, but if hunchentoot is working, i'd expect restas to also work, if you ran it as suggested on that page 05:14:03 disable threads probably disables building with pthreads. 05:14:03 <|3b|> (if you started hunchentoot separately, then that might confuse things) 05:15:31 okay, i will experiment a bit more. (seems like it should work). 05:15:48 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:15:57 <|3b|> looks like it should work with quicklisp too, at least judging by http://lispwebtales.ppenev.com/chap02.html#the-basics 05:16:19 <|3b|> and looking at restas:start, not having threads might be a problem, since it does some setup after starting hunchentoot 05:16:44 <|3b|> so if hunchentoot blocks, it never adds the restas specific stuff 05:18:51 say, btw, do you know if any other common lisp besides ecl that runs on openbsd? 05:19:46 <|3b|> looks like clisp or sbcl might, don't know about thread support though 05:20:01 <|3b|> maybe abcl if you have a jvm 05:22:10 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:22:17 sbcl and clisp also should, perhaps not with threads 05:22:37 oh someone just said that :) sorry 05:22:56 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 05:23:40 vinodh42: why did you disable threads? If it had to do with boehm-gc, the latter also has to be built with threads support, then it should work 05:24:30 hmmmmm.... shucks. I don't really want to switch away from openbsd. i suspect that the problem is with thread support. the reason i disabled threads was because of this log: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/logs.html 05:24:50 it lists the suggested configure flags. 05:25:27 oh that's simply probably because it wasn't as tested, or is outdated setting 05:26:05 <|3b|> yeah, that looks like it disables threads on x86 debian too 05:26:19 I'm not 100% sure about openbsd, but I use it on netbsd with threads, and the threads support is fairly generic built around pthreads 05:27:52 it's also possible that those systems provide a non-threaded boehm-gc by default I'm not sure, but it's possible to also build ecl against its own copy of the library, or to recompile the boehm-gc library with the OS's package system 05:28:51 phadthai: openbsd threads have been very strange for quite a while. I think it's better in the very bleeding edge. 05:29:07 ok 05:29:24 okay -- i'll try it again and build it again. i'll try different configure settings. that must be the problem. 05:30:39 i.e try using --enable-boehm=included --enable-threads --with-__thread=no 05:31:21 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 05:31:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:31:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:31:52 phadthai: thanks, i'll try it out now. 05:31:55 hmm actually I think now it's --with-system-boehm=yes 05:32:05 err =no :) 05:32:57 it's okay. i'll try a number of combinations. 05:43:36 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d22f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:31 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:48:47 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:07 Codynyx 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[c2ed8e11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.17] has joined #lisp 08:18:54 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:45 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-88.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:07 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 08:21:41 -!- bitonic` [~user@2.124.93.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:49 bitonic [~user@2.124.93.36] has joined #lisp 08:25:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:00 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:32:24 ;Good morning lispniks! 08:35:53 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 08:38:17 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 08:41:17 good day everyone 08:41:40 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:53:22 usocket documentation is pretty confusing 08:53:57 aspect [~aspect@abstracted-spleen.org] has joined #lisp 08:56:10 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 08:56:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 08:56:10 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 08:57:25 and to further increase confusion, i read this: http://mihai.bazon.net/blog/howto-multi-threaded-tcp-server-in-common-lisp 08:57:50 anybody got a simple working example on server sockets? 09:00:28 hajovonta: I have no real experience on coding with sockets, but I once read an iolib tutorial which was pretty clear 09:00:44 also, it may not be what you need 09:01:00 hajovonta: what implementation are you using? 09:01:52 afaik, sbcl's socket support is quite nice, so is cmucls 09:01:55 zorkmoid: sbcl 09:02:04 hajovonta: tried using sb-bsd-sockets? 09:02:20 i was not aware of this fact 09:03:05 Blkt: i need to include Windows so iolib is not an option 09:03:39 zorkmoid: i will try it 09:03:47 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 09:04:20 hajovonta: I see 09:04:26 never used usocket though .. 09:06:53 hajovonta: not sure i understand the blog authors comment ... read-only seems to be well documented in usocket 09:07:02 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-148-22.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:08:37 zorkmoid: in the function wait-for-input? here SLIME says it's "ready-only" 09:09:06 and i couldn't find a simple example on the internet :) 09:09:20 (maybe i am incapable) 09:09:24 hajovonta: sorry? slime says ready-only what does that mean? 09:10:06 -!- hwiersma2 [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:10:13 zorkmoid: when i type (usocket:wait-for-input slime prints the options in the minibuffer. 09:10:19 hajovonta: .... yes ... 09:10:40 protist [~protist@83.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:11:15 hajovonta: I am refering to"And an undocumented argument to a function in usocket has a default value which defeats the documented behavior, making me spend lots of time to figure out what's broken (:ready-only in usocket:wait-for-input).", READY-ONLY is perfectly documented in usocket... 09:12:27 yeah, it's ready-only, not read-only 09:13:07 hajovonta: are we talking about the same thing? :-) 09:13:10 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 09:13:42 zorkmoid: i suppose (you wrote "read-only") 09:14:02 hajovonta: not sure i understand the blog authors comment 09:14:02 ... read-only seems to be well documented in usocket [11:07] 09:14:02 09:14:06 that was a typo 09:14:11 ok :) 09:14:27 anyway 09:14:59 -!- DeathByDoubleD-1 [~DeathByDo@adsl-75-56-199-136.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleD-1] 09:18:09 the best we can say about any part of usocket documentation is "relatively well documented" because many parts of it are simply missing. 09:18:35 write them.. :-) 09:19:20 they would say "it's open source, and you did not pay for proper support." :-) 09:20:04 hashcat [~m18@110-28-183-234.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:14 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 09:24:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:05 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.229.30] has joined #lisp 09:25:34 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@181.Red-80-39-205.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 09:29:55 -!- hashcat [~m18@110-28-183-234.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:32:49 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:35:40 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:43:38 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:34 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:55:36 -!- youlysses_zzz is now known as youlysses 09:59:23 -!- sirdancealo2 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[~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:20 iig00cz [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:02 macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 10:32:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.6.48] has joined #lisp 10:32:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.6.48] has quit [Changing host] 10:32:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:40:13 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:31 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:50 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:43:07 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:43:23 -!- guest000000 [~guang.xio@61.135.207.195] has quit [] 10:43:58 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-250-111.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:48:01 -!- bitonic [~user@2.124.93.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:49:59 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 10:52:06 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:03:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:06:47 hajovonta: i meant write the parts that are missing. 11:14:51 -!- balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:53 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:18:46 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:02 balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 11:21:45 -!- balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:11 balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has 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[~peterhil@85-76-19-152-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:16 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:31 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:3068:2a5e:f70c:f97f] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:48:43 msmith [~msmit297@23.31.147.162] has joined #lisp 12:49:26 Hi all. Anyone know how I should go about shadowing the dot character (.)? 12:49:45 msmith: what do you mean by "shadowing"? 12:51:05 I mean overriding it. in the package definition I have (:shadow :.) as one of the parameters 12:51:54 msmith: Overriding it in what sense? 12:52:32 msmith: you cannot use a bare dot as a symbol name, if that is what you want. 12:52:42 Xach H4ns: I want to do something like this (defun . ()(print "works") 12:53:01 trying to write an embedded language 12:53:07 msmith: you are going to fight the reader. can you pick $ instead? 12:53:29 msmith: the reason that it does not work is that the dot is a special character to the reader. you might be successful with a reader macro, but i'd go with madnificent's suggestion. 12:54:17 msmith: You can't use . as a symbol without escaping it. 12:54:25 (defun \. () 'works) (\.) 12:54:31 Kind of ugly to me. 12:55:02 (|.|) looks like the midsection of a person standing akimbo 12:55:08 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:55:25 H4ns: now that this channel has caught your interest. IIRC, you did embedded code too. do you use lisp to generate C code for embedded stuff, or do you use C directly? any thoughts on the generation of C code from lisp for such purpose? 12:55:51 madnificent: i don't use lisp for embedded stuff, no. 12:56:23 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-186.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:29 thank you 12:57:14 reader macro, that's what I was looking for. For what I'm trying to do, I need to use specific symbols 12:57:14 -!- mtd_ [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:47 msmith: it may be easier to just write a specific parser if what you need to parse is not lisp or lisp with something else embedded. 12:57:51 msmith: if you're going that route, you might want to introduce a reader with much less functionality 12:58:07 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-197-215.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:59:09 mtd_ [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:13 msmith: or follow H4ns's suggestion, it may be easier to parse language, generate s-expressions from it, and walk from there. not sure what you are trying to build though. 12:59:41 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:19 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.243.115] has joined #lisp 13:00:21 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:03 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:03:31 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:04:31 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:04:49 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:07:06 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-052.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:09 icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has joined #lisp 13:09:31 -!- icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has quit [Client Quit] 13:10:20 icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has joined #lisp 13:11:16 -!- karswell [~user@87.114.92.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:11:31 karswell [~user@87.114.92.76] has joined #lisp 13:12:22 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:12:23 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:48 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:49 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:16:28 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:40 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 13:21:54 Xach: you can do something like this (set-macro-character #\. #'(lambda (stream char) (print (read stream t nil t)))) 13:23:29 -!- icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:23:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp237.dmi.ens.fr] has joined #lisp 13:25:11 msmith: Does that change how a symbol like .foo. is read? 13:25:33 (not that i have a symbol like that, just curious) 13:26:39 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.253.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:27:36 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:31 right, (s-m-c #\. #'(lambda ...) nil). 13:30:02 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:30:14 fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-182-85.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:30:39 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:31:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:32:57 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:33:54 Xach: yes, leads to some interesting results, seems it will print the characters foo then return the value of .foo 13:35:42 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:35:49 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:37 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:38:02 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 13:42:21 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:47:29 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48:42 -!- yano is now known as YANO 13:49:05 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 13:50:55 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:52:14 vinodh42 [~vinodh42@203.106.156.234] has joined #lisp 13:52:48 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-59-108.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:49 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-59-108.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:52:50 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:54:30 -!- vinodh42 [~vinodh42@203.106.156.234] has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:40 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:56:10 -!- hashcat [~m18@1-173-253-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:56:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:27 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:00 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:22 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:03:11 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:03:32 bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has joined #lisp 14:05:09 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:07:22 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:08:00 hashcat [~m18@110-28-183-234.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:05 -!- bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:10:23 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:15:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:50 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:17:39 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.106] has joined #lisp 14:19:52 Zplay [~charles@6.121.19.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:29 paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has joined #lisp 14:20:29 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:42 Hi, i have a list of this kind : "(:|cnb| "2" :|uptime| "10") how can I retrieve cnb and uptime ? 14:21:07 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:10 Zplay: (getf :|cnb|) 14:21:10 (getf :|cnb| list) 14:21:12 hajovont` [~user@173.248.133.249] has joined #lisp 14:21:15 er, what H4ns said. 14:21:16 Zplay: it is called a plist 14:21:25 dlowe: you could have been me :) 14:21:46 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@44.99-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 14:21:47 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@44.99-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 14:21:47 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:21:52 argument inconsistency is one of CL's more unendearing warts 14:21:59 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 14:22:22 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:22:24 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 14:22:43 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:22:45 dlowe, SBCL returns me this error : The function :|cnb| is undefined. 14:23:07 I tried with this line : (let ((list (:|cnb| "2" :|uptime| "10"))) (getf :|cnb| list)) 14:23:33 that's not a problem with getf 14:23:34 quote 14:23:44 Zplay: and you got the argument order wrong. 14:23:46 (let ((list '(:|..... 14:23:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 14:24:08 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:24:25 -!- hajovonta [~user@173.248.133.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:33 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:24:46 H4ns, Where is it in the wrong order ? 14:24:55 Blkt, thx I'll try 14:24:59 hi 14:25:18 Zplay: in the line you pasted. 14:25:29 Zplay: (getf ) is correct. 14:26:07 it's workiiing, thanks ! 14:26:11 I love lisp 14:26:13 harish [~harish@119.234.166.18] has joined #lisp 14:27:12 -!- paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:27:18 -!- Zplay [~charles@6.121.19.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 14:28:39 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.149.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:10 Blkt [~user@82.84.149.56] has joined #lisp 14:30:03 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:31:12 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has joined #lisp 14:35:27 the parens are like hugging arms 14:35:48 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:36:03 -!- msmith [~msmit297@23.31.147.162] has left #lisp 14:36:26 Xach: that's a nice way of viewing things 14:36:58 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-vayqljsrmbvsvykw] has joined #lisp 14:41:58 -!- paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:42:45 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:44:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-88.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:11 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:47 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-161-142.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:45:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:48:06 knob9876 [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 14:48:59 -!- knob is now known as Guest41 14:49:06 -!- knob9876 is now known as knob 14:49:22 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@adsl-75-56-199-136.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:19 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 14:52:02 I was getting hung up on difference between a symbol for a lisp object and the actual underlying thing.......but isn't EVERYTHING in lisp symbolic? 14:52:25 theseb: what do you mean by "symbolic"? 14:52:27 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:57 H4ns: at heart Lisp is just rules for manipulating text strings that represent Lisp programs 14:53:11 theseb: no. 14:53:24 H4ns: so really the entire language is just rules for manipulating text strings...that is what a grammar for every language basically does 14:53:41 every language at heart is just rules for turning one set of strings into another 14:54:10 theseb: while that may help you on a theoretical level, it is of no relevance to common lisp. 14:54:25 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:54:27 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-161-142.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:54:32 theseb: what do you mean by "is symbolic"? 14:54:34 yes..i was just trying to get my theory sorted out in my head 14:54:35 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-161-142.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:54:49 H4ns: here is an example of what i mean by symbolic 14:55:38 H4ns: three is a quantity...so a "real" three would be three apples, three paper clips, etc......the symbol "3" is just a symbol for three..see what i mean? 14:56:06 H4ns: in lisp you never have anything "real"...everything is just a representation of the "real" thing 14:56:16 theseb: i see what you mean, but i don't see how it is relevant. 14:56:19 um, you are talking about the insides of computers. 14:56:28 theseb: 3 in common lisp is not a symbol, but a number. 14:56:33 the real thing is electricity on a wire 14:56:57 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:57:23 theseb: common lisp is not a "pure symbolic" language. there are many different data types, and symbols is just another type. 14:57:39 H4ns: i'll tell you how it is relevant....i've noticed Lisp people are very accurate in their language....that is because they understand the underlying theory really well...so i thought to be like you guys i'd need to sort all this theory in my head 14:57:41 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:58:11 protist [~protist@117.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 14:58:28 -!- protist [~protist@117.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:38 dlowe: electricity is just the implementation....but at heart computers are just symbol engines 14:59:03 dlowe: you could make a computer with light or wood or something else...but you could NOT make a computer without symbols 14:59:20 sure you could. 14:59:35 just refrain from abscribing any meaning to the lights and buttons 14:59:47 dlowe: ok...yes you are right... 15:00:01 not too useful, of course :) 15:00:04 dlowe: but for it to mean something you'd have to interpret those bits in terms of symbols eventually 15:00:18 that's an artifact of human brains 15:00:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:00 anyway, I think your realization is that the text of a lisp program is less lisp than the underlying data structures 15:01:18 which is, perhaps, the fundamental lisp insight 15:02:08 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:03:31 dlowe: what do you mean? i want to make sure i understand what you said 15:05:07 drmeister [~drmeister@d205-250-223-135.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:44 I was hoping to have said what you just said 15:05:49 but maybe not 15:07:31 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:22 theseb: He means that most programming languages consider text to be the input for the compiler. A Lisp compiler eats up list data structures that (generally) have been produced by the Lisp reader. 15:08:53 reb: thanks 15:09:52 theseb: It's one of the big differences between Lisp and Scheme. The latter is in the "text is the input" camp along with C++, Java, etc. 15:10:04 mathematicians had a similar struggle.....some got confused trying to analyze what mathematicians really "is".....Hilbert proposed punting on that philosophical question and just saying math is a formal game of moving symbols around....as opposed to the Platonic interpretation 15:10:43 theseb: And how well did that plan work out? 15:10:58 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 15:11:36 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:51 reb: well....math people have a love hate relationship with that explanation......when philosophers start pressing the issue they claim math is just symbol pushing to make them go away.....when the philosophers leave they switch back to the Platonic interpretation that there really is some underlying almost mystical reality to their work 15:12:04 paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has joined #lisp 15:12:45 they want to have it both ways 15:15:45 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:21:44 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@adsl-75-56-199-136.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: DeathByDoubleDip] 15:22:14 hajovonta [~user@173.248.133.249] has joined #lisp 15:22:57 hello 15:29:56 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 15:30:54 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:00 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 15:36:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp237.dmi.ens.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:36:34 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:02 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:44 is there a way to disable the #= print notation when printing objects? The print 'factors' common items. 15:43:22 PuercoPop: (setf *print-circle* nil) 15:43:32 PuercoPop: but take care not to try to print circular objects after that. 15:44:16 ahh, just last week I had setf'd it to t in order to be able to print circular objects. Thanks 15:44:27 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-vayqljsrmbvsvykw] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:47:00 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B10C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:06 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dghdzlfmtsllqzgx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:21 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-88.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:00 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:58:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:00:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:07 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:52 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:03:34 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:04:17 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:04:18 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-161-142.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:06:56 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-052.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:08:04 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:42 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:28 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:18:56 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:04 -!- hajovont` [~user@173.248.133.249] has quit [Quit: end of day] 16:19:34 -!- hajovonta [~user@173.248.133.249] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:22:55 icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has joined #lisp 16:23:33 ... there is a portal song called (defun botsbuildbots () (botsbuildbots)) 16:31:03 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:03 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:06 hrm, it's not portable to make structs by (make-instance 'structure-class ...) is it? 16:32:02 the hyperspec doesn't list any standard initargs, though i may be looking in the wrong place 16:33:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:35:08 DeathByDoubleD-1 [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.32] has joined #lisp 16:35:22 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:51 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:39:05 I am under the impression that you can treat a struct pretty much as a class except that it verifies that when setting that slot, the value complies with :type declared in the struct. But I know very little. 16:39:22 oGMo: make-instance is for classes, not structs 16:40:09 oGMo: but you do can have default values for structs' slots 16:40:20 Denommus: ... 16:40:26 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2984E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:47 oGMo: or did I understand your question wrongly? 16:41:57 you understood structs wrongly 16:42:38 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fpznrlneqqouttbm] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:44 oGMo: what didn't I understand? 16:44:06 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 16:44:43 (also i am talking about making new structs, not making instances of existing structs) 16:46:01 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.188] has joined #lisp 16:46:07 oGMo: so you're talking about creating a metaobject for structs 16:46:11 -!- icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 16:47:44 what does this error message means? Cannot CHANGE-CLASS objects into CLASS metaobjects. I just wanted to define a class named empty-stack 16:49:03 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:31 PuercoPop: pastie? 16:49:38 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-110.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:29 Denommus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137833 16:52:27 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:28 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.122.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:32 that's weird 16:52:37 what compiler are you using? 16:52:48 sbcl 16:53:06 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:50 very, very weird 16:54:04 Yeah I find it pretty weird, going to inspect the class with slime inspector (that way I improve my slime-fu a little bit) 16:54:53 ahh I now know the cause of error 16:54:57 <|3b|> looks like empty-stack is a condition 16:55:04 I had defined a condition named empty stack 16:55:47 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2984E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:56:36 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 16:56:38 |3b|: Yeah that was it. Didn't know that conditions where classes to. Btw I wouldn't be able to figure it out from that error message! 16:57:07 *|3b|* isn't sure if that error is reasonable or not 16:57:30 <|3b|> reasonable as in conformant, it obviously isn't very helpful :) 16:59:14 now I'm asking myself if I can discover the metaclass of a class 16:59:44 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@64.30.112.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.87.116] has joined #lisp 17:00:04 (class-of class) 17:00:41 |3b|: I meant to say that it shows you are experienced. I liked that fact that I recommeded me to read a Book! Btw, do you know how can I get directly to a class with C-c I? I can do 'empty-stack and then press on the class, but there must be a quicker way. 17:01:11 Bike: (class-of class-name) gives me variable unbound, (class-of 'class-name) gives me SYMBOL 17:01:15 *|3b|* figured it out form the stack trace, not the error :) 17:01:41 Denommus: (class-of (find-class [classname])) 17:01:46 peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-149-199-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 17:02:25 Bike: cool 17:03:59 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:07:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.188] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 17:08:17 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.188] has joined #lisp 17:12:40 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.250.30] has joined #lisp 17:14:51 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:19:09 cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 17:20:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:21:34 -!- paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:06 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:27:25 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:29:24 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:31:46 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:34:47 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:53 paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has joined #lisp 17:36:38 davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.87.116] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:39:38 guys 17:39:49 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:41:13 shouldn't this give an error? http://paste.lisp.org/+2YCQ 17:41:35 or is the actual method forced to at least 'bar objects? 17:42:19 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:42:22 -!- paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:42:36 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:42:37 Blkt: *when* do you expect the error? 17:42:37 it'll give an error if you call it on a foo that isn't a bar 17:42:51 pkhuong: on invocation 17:42:54 but you could define a "field" method on foos 17:43:01 let's say on REPL 17:43:31 Bike: I don't want "func" method to work on 'foo objects 17:43:48 why'd you define it on foos, then. 17:44:18 actually, because I made a mistake, but when I realized I did, I expected it to fail while it didn't 17:44:42 So what's (func (make-instance 'foo)) do? 17:44:55 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-078.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:45:05 it correctly fails 17:45:21 aaah I understood why 17:45:25 Er, so what happened that you're confused by. 17:45:38 sorry, got entangled in class inheritance 17:45:48 I now get why it works 17:46:39 freaking Java... 17:47:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 17:50:04 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 17:52:18 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@64.17.225.230] has joined #lisp 17:53:21 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:54:01 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@64.17.225.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:31 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-34-198.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:56:02 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 17:56:18 paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has joined #lisp 17:56:50 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-152-169.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:59:30 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:10 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@85-76-149-199-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:59 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-052.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:54 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.87.116] has joined #lisp 18:11:14 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 18:13:48 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:04 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:14:59 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:16 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:15:34 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15:49 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:16:40 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:54 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:17:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 18:17:31 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:17:51 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 18:18:04 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:21:12 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:34 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:24:54 syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:55 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:24:55 syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 18:27:23 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[funinthesun] 18:27:52 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:49 i hate how you have very simliar names, I thought you were talking to yourself 18:31:09 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:31:47 jangle: I'm on a network as Infi, and I'm friends with someone named Invi 18:31:54 it's fun 18:32:01 lol 18:34:15 ASau` [~user@p4FF9723C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:27 is there a way to pass hunchentoots filehandle a prepared (unsigned-byte 8) sequence, ie. finished UTF-8, for output? 18:36:24 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:34 -!- paullik [~paullik@unaffiliated/paullik] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:37:13 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF9794F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:38 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:38:50 flip214: "for output"? 18:39:41 -!- bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Segmentation fault] 18:40:15 flip214: if you mean "as a response", then no. you need to use start-output and copy the stream. 18:40:39 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xdofmkchpvstcrpm] has joined #lisp 18:40:59 H4ns: the output is already started. I'd just like to write prepared data. 18:41:06 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@46.217.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:41:13 flip214: you need to copy it. 18:41:41 flip214: see tbnl:handle-static-file 18:42:03 flip214: i think alexandria has a copy-stream function nowadays 18:42:16 laktoferrins [~weng@78-73-108-250-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:15 ah, (send-headers) returns a stream that can be used. 18:43:21 thanks a lot for the pointer! 18:43:27 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:43:57 oops, i meant send-headers but said start-output 18:44:09 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by beer] 18:46:38 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:46:43 -!- embee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:46:52 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 18:48:31 -!- davazp [~user@79.Red-79-153-96.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping 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20:25:28 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 -!- jaccarmac [~Thunderbi@64.134.221.170] has quit [Quit: jaccarmac] 20:29:08 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.87.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:30:53 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:15 cruxeternus [cruxtech@secspeed.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:36 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 20:34:01 -!- DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@rrcs-76-79-65-218.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:35:03 DeathByDoubleDip [~DeathByDo@157.254.210.32] has joined #lisp 20:37:35 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:39:33 Is there a better way to convert a generalized boolean to a boolean than (not (not x))? 20:39:57 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:40:13 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:40:40 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:29 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 20:41:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:08 generalized booleans are the common lisp canonical style 20:42:11 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:42:25 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:32 Do you need T that badly? 20:42:40 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:42:46 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:59 That said, (if x t) is shorter, if less clear 20:42:59 no, but I'm dealing with string matching where the result is either nil or the matched string 20:43:18 seemed a little weird to put (:centered . "CENTERED") into a options dict 20:43:43 (if x t) actually seems clear in that context 20:44:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:17 if you actually need the value to be t, then I'd say (if x t) for this situation. 20:44:45 (when x t) 20:44:53 (null (null x)) is better because even longer! 20:45:22 sounds supiciously like dict abuse to me ;) 20:45:51 or as we say in CL-land, hash table abuse 20:46:01 dlowe: it probably is, but I'm parsing statements from a language that loves to cram english-like settings together into long statements 20:46:19 I prefer hash abuse as it sounds likea drug problem 20:46:46 fortitude: could it be cobol? 20:47:05 sid_cypher: nope, Progress ABL 20:47:11 one of those terrible database 4gl things 20:47:37 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:20 eww 20:48:38 (defun booleanize (generalized-boolean) (if generalized-boolean t nil)) 20:48:39 and it has horrible flash tutorials 20:48:57 sid_cypher: haven't seen those, but that sounds about par for the course 20:50:38 (and x T) 20:50:47 another solution 20:52:00 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@63-226-216-38.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:53:12 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B10C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:51 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:00 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 20:55:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-88.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:16 -!- nightfly [~sage@205.185.122.101] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 21:00:10 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:00:21 agspathis [~user@dsl-aauwdr.dyn.edudsl.gr] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 -!- agspathis [~user@dsl-aauwdr.dyn.edudsl.gr] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:25 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:05:35 so 21:06:18 I made a function that writes strings to a socket stream, and now I want to write them to a srting (or something that allows me to debug what I'm writing out) 21:06:43 so I pulled oout the guts of that function and made a new one that writes my strings to a given stream 21:07:07 jangle: make-string-output-stream and make-broadcast-strema 21:07:23 jangle: also get-output-stream-string 21:07:37 ok thanks 21:08:08 nightfly [~sage@rarity.sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:19 or just (with-output-to-string (stream) (my-func stream), no? 21:08:30 except with all the close-parens 21:08:57 fortitude: maybe that - it conveniently instantiates a string-output-stream 21:09:43 fortitude: i was trying that, but I guess I wasn't doing it right because the output is still being interpreted by swank/slime (not sure) and i'm getting an error 21:11:16 jangle: with-output-to-string should just return the string written to stream 21:11:23 so there must be something else at play here 21:11:49 Thats what I expect too, 21:12:05 my general form is (write-commands-to-stream stream config) 21:12:10 jangle: how do you debug by storing into the string? Is there so much data, that you have implemented a browser to look up that string output? Or do you just print the string on the terminal? 21:12:42 I just want to print to the terminal for now, it isn't much data 21:12:51 In the later case, (let ((socket-output (make-broadcast-stream socket-output *terminal-io*))) (do-stuff-to-socket socket-output)) 21:15:12 so when I use terminal-io or standard-output, the debugger pops up and sayd that "2 isn't a valid character" 0x02 (the literal byte of value 2) is the start of my input, so I suspect that someone is trying to interpret my output 21:15:29 and with-output-to-string isn't capturing the output into a string. 21:17:10 jangle: are you writing binary data to the socket? 21:17:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:56 fortitude: I guess. some of the data need to be non ascii chars but some of the data is ascii 21:18:29 jangle: are you using :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) or similar? 21:18:37 -!- bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:19:08 yes 21:19:16 that's why 21:19:26 *terminal-io* has an :element-type of 'character 21:19:34 so it's trying to decode your binary data as (unicode?) characters 21:20:07 whats odd is that up until this point I've been able to emit my strings to terminal-io or std out 21:20:29 your data might have been decodable as characters 21:21:05 but now that i'm writing to streams, I guess I need to pass the data appropriate for the stream i'm writing 21:21:18 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:43 for debugging purposes, using something a flexi-stream with :external-format :ascii should work 21:21:57 (not all of those character will print well, but it shouldn't error out) 21:22:18 so now I try to wrap it all up in a ccl:decode-string-from-octets, but still no luck. I'll look at a flexi stream then 21:23:14 the decoding is the problem, so ccl:decode-string-from-octets isn't going to work 21:23:23 lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:04 so what can I read to gain more understanding 21:25:11 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 jangle: wiki articles on character encodings would be a start 21:26:15 in particular about multi-byte encodings (e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8) 21:26:28 joswig_ [~joswig@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:18 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:49 lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:09 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:14 -!- joswig_ [~joswig@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:27 joswig [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:31 -!- joswig [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:40 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:28:49 lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:28:57 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:07 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:29:21 lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:44 so it wouldn't be enough to specity the proper element type to (with-output-to-stream stream :element-type) 21:29:47 ? 21:30:13 hashcat [~m18@27.247.142.174] has joined #lisp 21:31:24 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:31:43 jangle: are you sending a stream of ansi characters, unicode characters or both text and binary data interchangeably? 21:32:03 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-jzltqhlmvunlajfx] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:34:32 I am sending http://paste.lisp.org/display/137836 kinds of things 21:35:39 which I can evaluate on the repl and view just fine 21:36:07 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-052.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:36:13 obviously the start and end bytes don't render, and I don't care about that. but now that streams are in the mix I still don't understand enough yet to use these things with streams 21:36:52 hwiersma [~hwiersma@96.53.121.150] has joined #lisp 21:37:47 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:01 jangle: when you write that vector as to a byte-stream, you get the 0x02 byte, the bytes of the encoded string, and 0x03 byte 21:38:24 when you try to read that back in as characters, the stream assumes that 0x02 is part of an encoded character 21:39:09 character streams assume the input data is all valid encoded strings 21:39:15 *characters 21:39:47 so now my question becomes, can I specify a byte-stream as a type of stream inside a with-output-to-stream call, which will allow the macro to emit a string? 21:40:45 do you mean with-output-to-string? 21:40:52 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:40:59 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:59 is there a portable version of ccl:encode... or smth for sbcl? 21:41:21 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:41:32 sid_cypher: flexi-streams has string-to-octet and octet-to-string 21:41:39 fortitude: thank you 21:41:53 fortitude: yes 21:42:06 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:07 jangle: with-output-to-string requires a character-stream, so no 21:42:25 the only way to read that data into a string is either to strip out the 0x02 and 0x03 bytes 21:42:41 or find an encoding in which 0x02 and 0x03 are valid characters, and use that for both writing and reading 21:42:47 it's not lisp related, but i figured you guys might be able to help.. can anybody tell me what this code does? https://www.refheap.com/16187 21:43:01 i found it in some code in a paper that i'm trying to reimplement 21:43:20 you could parse byte-escapes from the string on the receiving end) 21:43:48 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 21:44:24 but sending plain binary and decoding a substring only seems like a standard solution 21:44:58 or serialize a struct or smth. why the bytes at the beginning and the end? 21:45:28 could be that it's a matter of that's what the protocol being used requires 21:45:47 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-110.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:46:13 the simplest thing to do for debugging purposes is probably going to be to read the bytes between 0x02 and 0x03 into a vector, then decode that 21:46:38 -!- hashcat [~m18@27.247.142.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:10 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:47:25 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:47:54 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-110.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:27 sid_cypher: the device looks for these as the start and end of an arbitrary message 21:48:47 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 21:49:27 jangle: couldnt you just cut off the first and last byte of each received message and then decode? 21:49:28 so now I would need a different function to emit them to a character stream. 21:51:07 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:51:25 jangle: so you need the ^(0x02) and (0x03)$ but the format of the message between is up to you? 21:51:27 sid_cypher: yes, I could i guess, (I'm emitting these messages to the device FWIW) but i wanted to generalize "writing the data to a stream", but now it seems that I need to do special handling if I want to emit for debugging purposes 21:51:43 sid_cypher: the format no, but the content yet. 21:52:26 jangle: and the requred format is? byte-vector with what encoding? 21:52:27 sid_cypher: It just so happens that they use ascii for the commands 21:52:52 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-152-169.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:53:47 sid_cypher: er. . byte vector? where bytes between 0x02 and 0x03 are interpreted as ascii? 21:54:17 jangle: i still don't know what you do/is done on the receiving end 21:54:46 but yeah, bytes between as ascii character codes 21:55:11 I'm shipping it all out to a black box. 21:55:32 but regardless, it has to be a byte vector for me to use udp 21:55:52 jangle: flexi-streams has a with-output-to-sequence that will let you write binary data 21:55:58 and then retrieve a byte-vector 21:56:07 which I was using, up until I got to this step, where it seems i'm using streams, (which magically worked with the vectors i'd already made for use with udp) 21:59:06 jangle: so the sending in a right format works, but you want to log and read things that are being sent, is that correct? 21:59:28 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.229.30] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 22:00:06 -!- wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:00:12 hashcat [~m18@27.241.134.48] has joined #lisp 22:00:24 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:32 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:31 sid_cypher: essentially yes 22:02:53 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 22:02:54 well, I'm still spinning everything up and I want to make sure I'm formmating everything correctly before I ship it out to the device 22:03:06 adam7504 [~adam@host-89-243-56-179.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:16 jangle: do you want to log the messages on the sending and/or receiving end? 22:03:21 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@96.53.121.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:22 sid_cypher: this is my first common lisp excursion of substance 22:03:32 sid_cypher: essentially yes 22:04:17 fortitude: thanks I'll look into that 22:04:52 -!- adam7504 [~adam@host-89-243-56-179.as13285.net] has left #lisp 22:05:12 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:06:12 i heeded the flexi-stream advice: http://paste.lisp.org/+2YCT 22:06:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d22f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:35 holy shitsnacks 22:08:39 -!- hashcat [~m18@27.241.134.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:51 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:07 in your "sMI 2" paste, you get #(2 115 77 73 32 50 3) you could find it's length upon receiving, cut out all except first and last byte, and then decode and print/log 22:11:21 hashcat [~m18@27.241.134.48] has joined #lisp 22:11:26 *its , sorry 22:12:11 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-58.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:25 -!- sellout- [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:13:58 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-193.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:45 all: flexi-streams give me exactly what I want. thanks all 22:14:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:15:38 sid_cypher: I'm only emitting these things, and I don't need to particularly log them, I just wanted to view the output of my string manipulations and orderings as a sanity check before I started writing them to the device 22:16:10 jangle: okay, so you're set. have fun! 22:16:54 bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:34 sid_cypher: and i'd learned enough so far to apparently get stuck. I still haven't figured out how to predict these type mismatch things ahead of time 22:17:45 sid_cypher: yes, thanks! 22:18:12 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-193.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:19:31 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:16 sellout- [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has joined #lisp 22:22:50 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:24:50 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-193.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:57 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:01 (loop for x being the elements of #(2 115 77 73 32 50 3 228 246 252) do (format t "0x~X " x)) 22:28:05 fortitude [~mts@cpe-184-153-153-174.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:56 sid_cypher: the issue was that I wanted to generalize my output for any given stream 22:29:30 since I needed to output to a tcp stream already, I thought, why not generalize for any stream! this way I can decided to output to terminal if I want to debug! 22:29:41 "oh wait I need more understanding" 22:32:08 -!- sellout- [~Adium@67.51.227.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:32:31 is there a way to create a filtered stream without implementing the whole gray streams business? 22:34:23 filtered stream? 22:35:12 fortitude: it's not that much code using Gray streams 22:35:23 depends on how you use it heh 22:35:27 something like map, but for streams rather than sequences 22:35:43 adeht: I hadn't actually looked at it much, just had the impression it was an involved process 22:35:44 it's not that hard but there can be a _lot_ of methods to implement 22:36:48 fortitude: yes, there is a way. 22:37:02 fortitude: USE the gray-stream business. 22:37:09 no need to re-implement it. 22:37:12 i can't even find a definition of what a gray stream is 22:37:27 fortitude: that's the notion called "library". 22:37:51 oGMo: I think it's around 15 for I/O 22:37:53 Something invented in informatics in the 40's, if not by Lady Lovelace 22:38:04 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:57 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:04 pjb: I of course meant implementing a *particular* type of gray stream, not reimplementing the whole protocol 22:39:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-110.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:38 fortitude: you can filter data without having it go thru streams also. 22:39:54 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-162-110.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:21 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:25 Or you could play with threads and unix pipes. 22:41:12 pjb: right, I was just thinking it would have solved jangle's earlier problem well 22:44:28 is any subclass of fundamental-stream with methods with own methods and slots called a gray stream? 22:45:40 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.224.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:36 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:12 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:20 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:56 BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:12 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:44 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:34 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:55:14 sid_cypher: the converse, any gray stream class is a subclass of fundamental-stream 22:55:24 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224046098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: lispm] 22:56:33 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 22:59:13 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:36 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-139-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:01:13 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 23:02:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-193.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:49 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:17 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:30 adeht: thanks. 23:05:38 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:33 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 23:16:21 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 23:17:36 -!- hashcat [~m18@27.241.134.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:17:58 hashcat [~m18@27.241.134.48] has joined #lisp 23:22:36 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 23:23:51 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:30 sid_cypher: perhaps it would be good to keep in mind that Gray streams are called like that because it's a stream system written by a certain M. Gray. 23:26:52 David N. Gray precisely.. 23:26:57 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-81-193.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:26:59 http://www.nhplace.com/kent/CL/Issues/stream-definition-by-user.html 23:27:42 So, a subclass of fundamental-stream is just a kind of stream 23:35:06 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:17 -!- hashcat [~m18@27.241.134.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:38:19 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-152-169.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:39:48 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:33 Xpl01t [~Xpl01t@177.206.197.179.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:41:42 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:42 -!- Xpl01t [~Xpl01t@177.206.197.179.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has left #lisp 23:45:19 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:04 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:51:24 -!- bananagram [~bot@173-16-109-35.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:54:59 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-164-87.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 23:58:42 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp