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Does anyone have a handy pointer to a link about debugging CFFI failures? 01:09:11 I don't use CFFI, but if I did, and I had a failure, I think I'd post to the mailing list for help. 01:10:03 Thank you. 01:11:21 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:11:53 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.81.187] has joined #lisp 01:12:49 is any reason to depend cl-mcclim of cl-swank ? 01:14:26 rszeno: what does that mean? 01:15:02 on debian, i can't install cl-mcclim except if install cl-swank 01:15:15 ok 01:15:33 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 01:15:39 mcclim has many systems in it, perhaps one has some kind of slime-like interface 01:16:08 I'm pretty sure it (swank) is a major piece of the listener 01:16:43 rszeno: I think it's better to install mcclim via quicklisp than via debian's package system. 01:17:48 agree, probably i need to get rid of all lisp deb packages 01:18:18 btw, quicklisp is in weezy, just discover today 01:18:33 i mean, wheezy 01:18:56 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 01:19:11 Xach, jimrthy, thank you, :) 01:21:20 I'm not sure what that means. I don't recommend using it from the package system. 01:21:49 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@229.231.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 01:23:28 i don't use wheezy, i'm still on squeeze 01:25:15 but maybe lisp will be sometime fixed on debian, i hope, so maybe is a good idea that quicklisp is there :) 01:26:02 I don't see how it can be made to work. 01:26:25 user can stress maintainers, :) 01:27:23 or become comaintaners, i understand debian need this 01:29:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:29:21 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:01 adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:30:09 Hi 01:30:32 How is it possible to edit Lisp programs while they run? 01:31:14 recompile functions, alter parameters. there's two 01:31:28 *How* 01:31:41 slime usually 01:31:46 How does it work? 01:31:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-214-125.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:09 adnap: The simplest way would be via the repl. 01:32:20 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-214-125.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:30 I want to know how it works rather than how to do it 01:32:40 Maybe that doesn't make sense 01:32:56 you send commands to a running lisp process 01:32:58 adnap: It's usually a matter of replacing an old definition with a new one, entirely. You're not usually editing the internals running function somehow. 01:33:08 pretty much the same as "editing" a program in any other language 01:33:22 adnap: calling functions and referencing other stuff goes through a level of indirection that supports this interactive, incremental replacment and update. 01:33:30 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:36 So, what happens when you are in the process of editing a function and it is non-operational? 01:33:51 like xach said, you send the new definition over all at once 01:33:57 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:58 Does the program use the old definition until you give some kind of "update" command? 01:34:04 yeah 01:34:17 So, it's kind of like compiling, but on the function level 01:34:28 yes, very much like that. the granularity is finer. 01:34:42 What if the type of the new function doesn't match up? What does the running program do? Does it keep using the old definition? 01:35:06 adnap: Itd give an error on the next call. 01:35:06 it uses the new definition and then bad things happen 01:35:17 adnap: (if youre lucky) 01:35:25 Well, the "bad thing" is you end up in the debugger, and you can fix the caller, and retry the call. 01:35:47 Is it possible to recover from the "bad thing" without restarting the program? 01:36:01 Often. 01:36:15 Xach: i was thinking of the possibility of unsafe code. 01:36:22 adnap: yes, especially if you consider "the program" to be the lisp environment as a whole and not an individual function. 01:36:24 is a restart at debuger level 01:36:45 Can you only insert new function definitions when interpreting a program? 01:36:56 no, compiled too 01:37:00 Oh, cool 01:37:18 Off-topic, but can Haskell do this? 01:37:25 Ask in #haskell. 01:38:05 The difficulty is that I'm not sure how to formulate the question 01:38:09 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has joined #lisp 01:38:20 Even C can do it. 01:38:21 The convenience relies on people in here knowing what "this" is 01:38:39 Call it "dynamic function replacement". 01:38:45 Well, do you mean "can" in the hypothetical sense, or in reality? 01:39:05 in reality. there's this thing called Kitsune. 01:39:06 It's pretty trivial if you have posix and can use ldopen. 01:39:22 http://drum.lib.umd.edu/handle/1903/12496 01:39:29 It's mostly a matter of generating new code, then getting it to link in. Not rocket science. 01:40:05 But in C, the program would crash if you inserted a bad function definition, right? 01:40:21 It might just have undefined behaviour. 01:40:24 There's no environment to recover like in Lisp I guess 01:40:27 you could have your own debugger code, too. 01:40:44 you can also package lisp images so that they don't have a debugger, sometimes. 01:40:54 the possibilities for breaking are wide and endless! 01:41:06 The point is that it isn't particularly magical -- it's mostly a matter of convenient infrastructure. 01:42:28 Okay 01:42:40 I can't find any software related to the Kitsune paper 01:46:45 never heard of it untill now but a short search give this https://github.com/mozilla/kitsune/ 01:47:04 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 01:47:25 i don't know if is same kitsune 01:47:49 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:47:50 nope. 01:47:51 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:04 wikipedia has an article on "dynamic software updating" you can check for more systems/links. 01:49:21 Bike, yes, i just seen, :) 01:52:07 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.103.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:52:07 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:52:58 MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@174-21-142-115.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:56 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:01 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:31 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:02:17 -!- paul0 [~paul0@arq53-138.arq.ufsc.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:08 One live coding demo on Reddit -> Vimeo looked like emacs was displaying to a GL texture ??? 02:05:25 Or was it full screen GL effects on top of a 2D screen? 02:05:55 Where's that? 02:07:21 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.109.64] has joined #lisp 02:08:07 http://vimeo.com/66448855 02:08:22 reddit r lisp #49 02:14:01 no, I saw emacs tilt - GL pixbuf ?? 02:14:30 is there an idiom for doing a join on lists (like format's ~{~^~} construct, but for lists rather than string output)? 02:15:28 a join? ~{ iterates 02:15:30 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:16:50 right, but (format nil "~{~A~^|~}" '(1 2 3)) will give you a |-delimited string 02:17:11 which would be something like '|'.join([1, 2, 3]) in other languages 02:17:33 I'm wondering if there's a concise way to do the same, but wind up with '(1 | 2 | 3) instead of a string 02:18:45 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.109.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:19:07 (loop for x in list collect x collect '\|) 02:19:28 had no idea you could use multiple collect clauses like that 02:19:34 that's exactly what I was looking for, thanks 02:19:41 that'll put an extra | after, though 02:19:47 ah 02:20:00 so almost exactly, then :p 02:20:36 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:49 (rest (loop for x in list collect '\| collect x)) 02:20:55 could do (loop for x on list collect (car x) if (cdr x) collect #\|), right? 02:21:07 sure 02:21:50 either way just put this in a small function and don't think about it again, of course 02:22:31 the real question is where to keep those little snippets so that they can be reused without importing a personal library for every project 02:22:54 i think quadresence has something for that in the pipeline 02:23:03 in the meantime, no harm in a small utils.lisp i guess 02:26:26 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:59 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:52 nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:01 tensorpuddin 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[~teggi@123.20.107.130] has joined #lisp 05:25:49 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.56.248] has joined #lisp 05:26:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.111.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:10 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.152.35] has joined #lisp 05:35:33 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.1] has joined #lisp 05:35:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.152.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:39:35 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:41:58 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 05:42:05 madrik [~user@122.168.227.245] has joined #lisp 05:46:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:47:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.246.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:48:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:49:06 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.227.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:49:13 What is this newlisp thing? Is it new implementation? 05:52:24 no, it's its own dialect. i think there's a standing unwritten rule not to talk about it much here. 05:52:55 Ah, sorry, I didn't know that. 05:53:23 But thanks for information. 05:53:52 (Anyway, I prefer python and bash for scripting things) 05:55:56 mikecsh [~mikecsh@82.112.141.119] has joined #lisp 05:57:33 pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:01:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:02:44 nostoi [~nostoi@220.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:35 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@220.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:04:36 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.60.15] has joined #lisp 06:06:16 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 06:07:32 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:07:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:59 otwierac1 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otwieracz 06:33:22 -!- Batalyx_ is now known as Batalyx 06:34:53 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:35:53 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:09 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:43 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 06:41:07 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.60.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:42:27 hajovonta [suizpfu@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 06:43:45 mskou72 [~mskou72@91.144.254.250] has joined #lisp 06:46:13 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host210-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 06:46:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-152.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:47:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:51:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:51:59 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:52:06 question: how do i get the stream of a socket in usocket? 06:53:23 (usocket:socket-stream sock) 06:53:53 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:01 thebope [~Adium@pdpc/supporter/student/thebope] has joined #lisp 06:55:06 hajovonta: made a very simpel function to fetch http, it uses usocket and the code is here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137634 06:55:25 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:57:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:57:48 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.25] has joined #lisp 06:57:56 n2kra: I've been working on the VLM port so that it is a bit more sensible, and stable .. 06:58:04 mskou72: thanks very much 06:58:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:59:50 Hello, I'm currently working through the google Lisp koans (https://github.com/google/lisp-koans). I'm trying to convert a list to a bit vector. I've tried these two solutions (http://paste.lisp.org/+2Y84) so far but neither are working, does anyone know what I'm doing wrong? 07:00:00 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:00:25 thebope: Well... that code won't work. 07:00:25 thebope: '(length my-list) evaluates to list 07:00:32 thebope: look at the quote 07:00:46 thebope: you probably need to remove quote 07:00:54 ahhh 07:01:02 thebope: both places... 07:01:29 thebope: and the second function is better thant the first one 07:01:36 nod 07:01:49 why? 07:02:21 it's more clear, imo 07:02:42 s/more clear/clearer/ 07:02:55 Yes, I actually had the second solution first 07:03:10 but when it didn't work I tried something more, specified? I guess 07:03:18 (coerce list 'bit-vector), just so you know 07:03:23 but I knew I was going off track, there's no need to define a variable 07:03:44 Bike: ah, I didn't know that's possible 07:03:49 Bike: I bet thats the super easy way I didn't know about 07:04:08 thebope: you also shouldn't use aref to access list elements, use nth 07:04:18 or elt. 07:04:23 yep 07:04:36 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:48 Okay, is this for performance? Readability? Or just more accepted? 07:04:50 but I prefer nth for lists and elt for 1dim arrays (aka vectors) 07:04:58 thebope: no, aref is for arrays, it won't work on lists. 07:05:01 array-ref. 07:05:17 nth is for lists, elt is for sequences in general. 07:05:35 What does KERNEL:PARSE-UNKNOWN-TYPE mean? (WOOKIE::MAIN-EVENT-HANDLER # NIL) where doing a (load "x.lisp")... 07:06:04 Bike: Okay, sweet, thanks guys, that definitely helped 07:06:08 On to the next one! 07:06:08 mskou72: that's an sbcl error. means that it tried and failed to parse a type specifier into an internal representation. 07:07:20 thebope: btw, the coerce will basically do a working version of your first solution, probably. 07:07:42 Bike: ok. but the file only include one simple function, strange. any means of getting a more detailed error? 07:07:54 Joreji [~thomas@95-026.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:08:13 mskou72: paste? 07:08:14 mskou72: paste code here first 07:08:33 mskou72: paste.lisp.org/new 07:08:34 i'm kind of confused howwabout how you didn't end up in the debugger anyway 07:08:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6466A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:09:04 he probably did 07:09:26 yes i have some restarts, will make a paste. 07:09:30 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:10:08 Bike: Yea, I wonder if it will be covered in the koans, if not, might be worth an addition 07:10:39 nostoi [~nostoi@220.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:19 I was kinda surprised to see lisp code from google, btw. Do they really use CL or it's just something odd? 07:12:34 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-qpkkklhvjqdpngat] has joined #lisp 07:12:43 hitecnologys: they had a subsidiary that used lisp for airplane sales or something, ITA. 07:13:16 What CL impl. does Google use ? 07:13:36 I think ecl. 07:13:39 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:13:44 hitecnologys: why do you think that? 07:13:49 pretty sure they used sbcl. 07:13:59 Bike: really ? 07:14:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-icaboezorzlsrjuf] has joined #lisp 07:14:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-icaboezorzlsrjuf] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:14:04 sbcl and ccl 07:14:12 ita uses sbcl and some clozure cl, although the ccl based project is dead now. 07:14:17 jdz: just wild guess 07:14:24 maybe they have their own implementation :) 07:14:44 hajovonta: is it gcl :) 07:14:53 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 07:15:04 Anyway, ecl is the only implementation that supports android, so I think it's ecl 07:15:08 "why listen to someone who actually knows when one can also idly speculate" 07:15:51 hitecnologys: i cannot believe it will use ECL which even cannot run stumpwm, iirc 07:16:11 hitecnologys: this is not a place for idle ramblings about stuff you have no clue about, please. 07:16:34 jdz: hey, it does not run stumpwm, so it cannot be used by google. is that not clear enough. 07:16:46 jdz: sorry, it won't happen again 07:16:51 question: i stupidly setf-ed *standard-input* and now want it back. :-) do i have to restart sbcl or is there another, better way? 07:17:27 hajovonta: take it from another package? 07:17:46 H4ns: it makes me suspect its ability when cannot run a simple CL app ... 07:17:49 hitecnologys: what did you just say before? 07:17:56 well, it now doesn't listen to me in the repl :) 07:17:57 hajovonta: (two-way-stream-input-stream *terminal-io*), maybe 07:18:36 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable086.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:18:57 jdz: if he didn't setf-ed it in cl-user or any other package that :use *s-i* original package he may do this. 07:19:32 hitecnologys: you have no clue what you're talking about. that's a fact. 07:19:39 hitecnologys: so please stop. 07:19:47 hitecnologys: yeah, that's wrong, sorry. 07:20:10 Ah, ok, I shoud go back to code 07:20:19 a package using another package just lets you access that other package's symbols. they're the same symbols and the same values. 07:20:24 anyway, thanks for the try. 07:20:32 hajovonta: does mine work? 07:20:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-1-238.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:41 hajovonta: are you in slime, or a bare repl? 07:20:45 slime 07:21:51 i can still evaluate forms from another window with C-c C-c 07:21:57 i just set *standard-input* in my slime repl, and nothing bad happens 07:21:58 but my repl has gone :) 07:22:05 oh, i see. 07:22:13 Getting PARSE-UNKNOWN-TYPE when i (load "x") some code. Im trying to reload code while running the Wookie http server. http://paste.lisp.org/display/137669 07:22:25 evaluate (setf *standard-input* (two-way-stream-input-stream *terminal-io*)) with C-c whatever, maybe. 07:22:34 and uh. don't do this again :P 07:22:37 jdz: i did something like (setf *standard-input* (some-stream)) 07:23:16 hajovonta: yeah, i set to (make-broadcast-stream) 07:23:22 Bike: i tried and doesn't work 07:23:47 I got nothing then. 07:23:58 mskou72: Could you annotate that with the error message and backtrace? 07:24:05 hm, thanks 07:24:14 i restart sbcl 07:24:44 hajovonta: aww 07:25:01 hajovonta: you should have tried evaluating (setf *standard-input* (make-synonym-stream 'sb-sys:*stdin*)) 07:25:26 no problem. i just recreate the problem. :) 07:25:28 wait a minute 07:26:28 Bike: added it to the paste. 07:26:34 jdz: doesn't work 07:27:18 i got: ; compiling (SETF *STANDARD-INPUT* ...) 07:27:21 mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has joined #lisp 07:27:23 but did not get the repl back 07:27:28 jewel [~jewel@105-236-245-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:27:32 mskou72: wait, this is when it's /running/... could you compile it first? 07:28:24 hajovonta: it might by blocked on reading from your stream 07:28:28 hajovonta: can you close it? 07:28:43 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:28:45 Hey, sorry, didn't see you guys talking about google's Koans. I'm pretty confident it is sbcl because I'm running sbcl with quicklisp on OS X and all the Koans are working for me just fine. I do not know how much overlay there is between the different lisp implementations though so don't quote me on that. 07:29:15 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:29:27 jdz i try it 07:29:55 hajovonta: one last thing i'd suggest is trying to create another slime repl, looking for the command to do it now 07:31:51 hajovonta: oh, slime-mrepl supposedly does that (with slime-open-listener) 07:32:02 slime-mrepl being a contrib 07:32:48 jdz: closing socket solved the problem. thanks! 07:33:00 (it was bound to a socket stream) 07:33:22 mskou72: my guess is that listener didn't get defined right, though. 07:34:11 actually no, make-instance doesn't involve type parsing. 07:34:17 what if you remove those declaims? they're useless anyway. 07:38:26 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 07:39:03 -!- thebope [~Adium@pdpc/supporter/student/thebope] has quit [Quit: Off to bed. Thanks for the help. Shall be back] 07:40:23 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.37.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:25 compiling does not remove the error. But it must have something to do with wookie, will try to check there. 07:41:36 without declaims there are som undefined function style warnings, but the error is still there. Have tried to put setup-routes func in seperate file and load only that, same error. 07:43:18 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable086.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 07:44:39 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:45:13 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:46:48 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 07:46:48 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 07:46:48 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:49:11 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:49:24 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:50:55 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:51:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:54:33 oudeis_ [~oudeis@37.142.60.252] has joined #lisp 07:55:27 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[~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:16:23 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 08:18:23 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:18:34 wefw2223 [~wevweovn3@18.21.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:19:21 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.56.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:55 -!- wefw2223 [~wevweovn3@18.21.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 08:21:32 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.81.187] has left #lisp 08:22:17 wefw2223 [~wevweovn3@18.21.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:23:42 what's the most straightforward way to remove all sub-lists from a tree whose FIRST element matches a predicate? 08:24:00 GuilOooo_ [~GuilOooo@AMontpellier-651-1-29-45.w90-57.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:24:38 robot-beethoven: have you tried SUBST-IF? 08:25:53 -!- wefw2223 [~wevweovn3@18.21.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 08:26:37 wefw2223 [~wevweovn3@pa49-176-40-5.pa.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:26:44 jdz: what will you replace it with? 08:27:03 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@AMontpellier-651-1-298-2.w92-143.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:27:33 stassats: i was thinking about NIL, but yes, it might not be a solution 08:27:55 robot-beethoven: the most straightforward solution is just to do that 08:27:55 doing your own tree traversal should not be hard, really 08:28:02 robot-beethoven: you've seen http://lisptips.com/post/43404489000/the-tree-walkers-of-cl i suppose? 08:29:06 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:31:10 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:40:38 abeaumont [~abeaumont@181.Red-88-25-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:01 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.59.212.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 08:41:38 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-22-98.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:47:22 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:51:48 -!- 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memo for stassats: there seems to be a strange performance bug in CL-PPCRE; "^.*ba(na)+s" is 15 times as slow as "^.*ba(na|ne)+s" on a 2060-character simple string like "bananana....bananas". Both are also much slower (around as much as the first, slow, case) without the "^.*" bit. 11:41:48 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 11:43:19 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.60.222] has joined #lisp 11:43:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-1-238.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:45:45 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-130-144.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 11:48:48 -!- prip [~foo@host42-131-dynamic.26-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:25 prip [~foo@host5-135-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:52:51 -!- Batalyx [~ji@halava.cc.jyu.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:53:43 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 11:57:40 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:42 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:26 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@221.237.92.28] has left #lisp 12:00:14 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 12:00:30 -!- prip [~foo@host5-135-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:02:31 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:33 prip [~foo@host182-121-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:02:45 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:17 cajetanus [~user@2a01:4f8:162:44c1::2] has joined #lisp 12:03:50 -!- cajetanus [~user@2a01:4f8:162:44c1::2] has left #lisp 12:04:15 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:14 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:46 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:32 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@37.142.60.252] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:12:39 -!- prip [~foo@host182-121-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:14:40 prip [~foo@host216-130-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:15:09 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@91.144.254.250] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:15:44 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.93.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:17:58 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:16 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 12:20:39 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.56.248] has joined #lisp 12:21:17 -!- wheelsucker [~user@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:23:27 Okay, my mind is clear now so I can come back. Hello everyone. 12:24:52 -!- prip [~foo@host216-130-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:26:44 prip [~foo@95.234.129.24] has joined #lisp 12:26:46 -!- antgreen_ [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:27:44 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:42 davazp` [~user@165.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:06 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:35:43 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.243.55] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:42 -!- prip [~foo@95.234.129.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:37:06 lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 12:37:10 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.60.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:00 -!- GuilOooo_ [~GuilOooo@AMontpellier-651-1-29-45.w90-57.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:44:06 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@71-82-12-187.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ManAmongHippos] 12:44:07 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.202] has joined #lisp 12:44:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:48:52 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:56 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:17 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 12:57:19 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:40 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 12:57:44 -!- ericmath1son [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:59:19 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:00:57 mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:36 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 13:04:34 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-126-167-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:55 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 13:05:03 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:05:07 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 13:06:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:26 oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:07:26 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[wrkwrkwrk] 13:12:08 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:16:01 _jimrthy [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-026.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:57 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:12 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:20:47 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-204-30.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 13:22:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:23:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:32 jute [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 13:26:33 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 13:27:25 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:30:25 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:29 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:32:34 -!- gko_ [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:35:14 Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-147-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:36:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:30 pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 13:36:33 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:44 elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:48 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158] has joined #lisp 13:38:04 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 13:38:41 -!- pnpuff [~LaGrange@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 13:38:55 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:40:52 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:41:01 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:10 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.203] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 13:47:44 -!- MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@174-21-142-115.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:14 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:51:37 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:51:49 hi 13:52:50 Hello Denommus. How are you doing? 13:53:01 fine, thanks 13:54:29 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:55:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:57:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.85.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58:57 that's nice 13:59:28 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@71-82-12-187.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:08 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@71-82-12-187.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:02:30 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:44 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 14:04:39 jute [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 14:09:27 -!- _jimrthy [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 14:10:56 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has left #lisp 14:11:28 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [] 14:11:45 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:11:49 jimrthy_work [~james@rrcs-24-173-213-155.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:49 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:10 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 14:13:00 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:13:02 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:13:04 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 14:14:24 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:21:26 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-146-183.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:15 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Quit: iqool] 14:26:12 hello hitecnologys 14:26:44 -!- hajovonta [suizpfu@62.212.72.240] has quit [Quit: end of day] 14:28:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-146-183.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 14:29:38 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 14:30:33 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:31:56 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 14:33:23 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:34:31 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:20 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-zkltwltbqyscadxy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:37:32 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:38:08 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.189.215] has joined #lisp 14:45:03 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:47:47 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:48:28 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:30 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:17 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:11 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:51:02 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:16 MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@66-162-141-202.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:25 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-qpkkklhvjqdpngat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:53 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:01:18 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:01:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:02:07 human [~happy@106.199.11.15] has joined #lisp 15:02:10 -!- human [~happy@106.199.11.15] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:02 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:39 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:09:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:41 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 15:14:07 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-45.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:32 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:48 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:16:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:17:03 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:19:37 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:38 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:22:54 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-018-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:24:13 ... Does it make sense to use (complement #'set-exclusive-or) as an equality predicate for alists? 15:24:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:24:44 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:14 (Specifically, while you can use EQUAL or similar if there's an ordering constraint on the alists, you need a more sophisticated approach if the alists can be unordered.) 15:26:14 nyef: that doesn't handle shadowing in alists. 15:26:36 Mmm. Fair point. 15:27:22 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has joined #lisp 15:27:25 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 15:27:25 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:32:45 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:34:50 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 15:35:30 pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-4-143.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:35:56 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:43 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:38:57 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:11 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:45 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f55.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:02 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 15:46:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has joined #lisp 15:46:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has quit [Changing host] 15:46:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:47:14 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:48:17 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:48:35 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:50:47 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:53:15 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-214-125.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:40 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:25 antgreen_ [green@nat/redhat/x-jvbhsweamshftkxb] has joined #lisp 16:00:31 imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:14 -!- davazp` [~user@165.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:03:08 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:10 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-201-41.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 16:07:31 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:10:18 sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has joined #lisp 16:10:51 -!- imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:23 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: zzz...] 16:16:09 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.49.105] has joined #lisp 16:16:09 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.56.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:50 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:18:39 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:19:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:19 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 16:21:57 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:51 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-43-227.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-214-125.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:29:11 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 16:30:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:31:32 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-45.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:21 -!- lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:24 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:03 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:31 I'm reading about metacircular semantics of CL special forms and I have a doubt: why in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ababa.htm is "if" a special form while "cond" is not? 16:38:32 pnpuff, memo from pjb: well your evlis seems to work as it should. The only regretable thing, is that (my-eval 'x '()) --> nil instead of unbound variable error. For a bootstrapping system it's ok, for a real developement environment, it's bad. 16:38:58 pnpuff: uh, because it's a macro? you can easily define either in terms of the other. 16:39:46 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:20 pnpuff: that's because only one of them need to be defined as a "primitive", the other one can be implemented as a macro. They just did it at heads-and-tails. 16:44:28 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 16:44:44 If they had asked McCarthy, he would have prefered COND to be the special operator. 16:44:53 (defmacro cond ((test &body body) &rest clauses) (if clauses `(if ,test (progn ,body) (cond ,@clauses)) `(when ,test ,@body))) [buggy but you get the idea], (defmacro if (cond cons alt) `(cond ((,cond ,cons) (t ,alt))) 16:46:25 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 16:46:53 pnpuff: CL implementations are allowed to implement CL macros as special operators (but must still provide a macro for the user), and they are allowed to implement special operators as macros. 16:47:59 pnpuff: so an implementation could use (defmacro cl:if (cond then &optional else) `(cl-internals:if* cond (lambda () ,then) (lambda () ,else))) ie. a function, instead of a special operator. 16:49:05 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:49:09 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.91.54] has joined #lisp 16:49:50 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:57:51 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host210-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:53 AeroNotix [~xeno@abou200.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:58:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-43-227.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:00:38 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-148.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:22 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:02:25 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:03:25 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:07 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:19 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:05:17 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.59.212.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:09:27 -!- balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:21 balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 17:11:02 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:12:58 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:13:35 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:17:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:18:02 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:18:33 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:19:26 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 17:20:20 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:20:21 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:39 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:03 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:21 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.91.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:30:06 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:30:24 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:30:58 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:31:10 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:31:50 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 17:32:55 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:32 Am I allowed to push my own symbols to *features* or it's not recommened? I just need a mechanism to toggle debug messages display. 17:33:38 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 17:33:45 that's what it's for. 17:33:57 Ok, thanks. 17:34:17 nialo- [~yaaic@66.87.117.229] has joined #lisp 17:36:20 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 17:39:30 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:15 *bhyde* tends to limit *features* to platform port issues. he trusts his compiler for other code suppression needs 17:44:22 Btw, how to make sbcl not to complain about specific piece of code if some code there was removed because it never executes? 17:44:52 Like (if nil (do-stuff)), for example 17:45:44 why do you have this code anyway? 17:46:05 I don't have one, I'm just curious. 17:46:52 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has joined #lisp 17:47:05 lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 17:48:36 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:51 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 17:49:01 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:22 is it a warning? google muffle warnings ? 17:50:37 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 17:52:31 It's a warning, yes, but I can't find such thing in sbcl documentation. 17:52:57 I can't even find something that looks like complete sbcl documentation. 17:55:19 http://sbcl.org/manual/ is the documentation 17:55:39 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:55:42 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-252-29.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:12 sid_cyph1r [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #lisp 17:56:15 Tordek_ [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-azabzixldrqkhqsj] has joined #lisp 17:57:59 hitecnologys: see section 4.1.1 17:58:05 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:58:12 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:59:01 Xach: oh crap, thanks a lot, I didn't even notice on the main page 17:59:19 dim` [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 17:59:49 Corvidium [~cosman246@nat60-100.net.kcls.org] has joined #lisp 18:00:08 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-198-148.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:08 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abou200.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:09 -!- Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:09 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:09 -!- dim [~dim@prometheus.naquadah.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:09 -!- entitativity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:09 -!- sid_cypher [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:09 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ptmazxkwpydjzacp] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:00:10 -!- dim` is now known as dim 18:01:33 Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 18:02:09 -!- iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 18:04:00 Posterdati [~antani@host60-219-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:05:14 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:05:19 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:05:28 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:05:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:00 entitativity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:32 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has joined #lisp 18:08:30 AeroNotix [~xeno@abou200.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:08:35 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:41 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 -!- Guest87166 is now known as daem0n 18:14:42 -!- daem0n [popoki@2607:f5a0:0:162:225:90ff:fe57:5e05] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:43 daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 18:15:32 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 18:17:32 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 18:19:14 mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:15 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:20:40 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:24 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has left #lisp 18:25:27 bitonic` [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 18:26:00 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:10 -!- bitonic` [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:40 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 18:27:43 mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:32:59 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:33:14 ASau` [~user@p5797E1C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:57 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 18:36:14 hitecnologys: just be sure to push your OWN symbol, not a keyword, or a symbol not yours. (push 'hitecnologys::feature1 *features*) #+hitecnologys::feature1 'hi 18:36:46 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:36:54 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F6A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:36:59 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:55 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 18:40:29 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:09 Why shouldn't I push keywords? 18:41:09 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:41:46 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:43:16 hitecnologys: i always use keywords in *features*, but i assume pjb is concerned that you might conflict with some other user's symbols appearing in *features*, i.e. :debug would be a likely source of conflict 18:44:17 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:44:30 Oh, I don't think it may cause conflicts because I use it like :jams-print-debug-info. 18:44:35 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:17 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:26 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:46:50 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 18:48:10 I always wonder what would happen if I accidentally find collision of some packcages from different libraries. Have anybode seen it before? 18:48:28 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:48:55 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 18:49:05 nha [~prefect@koln-5d8152b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:38 s/anybode/anybody/ 18:50:29 hitecnologys: you get an error if there is a symbol conflict. 18:51:33 http://lisptips.com/post/34436452765/the-four-causes-of-symbol-conflicts has some symbol conflict info 18:51:57 Xach: yeah, I know this, but how small is the probability of such event? 18:52:02 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:21 iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 18:52:51 i think the main one it happened with was the json package 18:53:06 hitecnologys: It depends on what you try to do. It is almost entirely up to you. 18:54:50 hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:54:51 Xach: absolutely 18:55:57 Bike: and which library had the same package? 18:56:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:56:18 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:06 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:57:44 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.59.212.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:58:09 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:59:18 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:38 -!- iqool [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Quit: iqool] 19:05:15 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:06:47 aranhoide [~smuxi@96.Red-83-59-16.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:13 -!- aranhoide [~smuxi@96.Red-83-59-16.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 19:08:14 mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:24 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 19:12:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:27 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:14:45 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:17:03 BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-199-222-155.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:17:19 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:21:38 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.55.82] has joined #lisp 19:22:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:24:10 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192156.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:08 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:12 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 19:27:29 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:11 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 19:30:29 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:54 bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has joined #lisp 19:34:04 isomorphismes [~ubuntu@ec2-54-243-213-161.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:12 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:43 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 -!- bitonic [~user@2.216.103.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:54 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192156.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:37:47 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 19:38:58 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:39:04 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:40:33 hitecnologys: in the case of *features* if you put the a symbol "that shouldn't be put there", most often what will happen is that when you next load or compile lisp files, code that should be read, compiled or executed will not, or code that should not will. Most probably a lot of breakage and lost time. 19:41:09 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:41:12 Some code may also test presence of symbols on *features* at run-time but it's less probable. Consequences could be as catastrophic however. 19:42:01 Ah, now I see. Thanks for advice. 19:42:10 Of course, it you do that at run-time and don't load compile or read lisp expressions ever after, you should be good. 19:44:57 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 19:46:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-148-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:23 Oh, and a lot of people test for the presence of feature :NIL to disable stretches of code instead of using #+(or) or #-(and), which is just asking for something to break. 19:51:42 why is it asking for something to break? 19:52:00 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:52:11 because if you (push :nil *features*) all that wrong code will happen. 19:52:17 Don't do that. 19:52:28 who'd do that and why? 19:52:37 #+nil #-nil is more readable than #+(or) #-(and). Don't shoot yourself in the foot on purpose and complain when it breaks things. 19:53:07 foom: i'm not buying the "more readable" argument, but having a :nil feature is silly anyway 19:53:34 The only reason anyone would ever push :nil on *features* that is to make a point about #+nil being a Bad Thing To Do. 19:53:53 or they're resurrecting the new implementation of lisp ;) 19:54:40 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:33 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 19:56:36 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:58 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:58:02 What if we take some bytes from /dev/urandom (and them apply SHA) and use it as a feature name? (just kidding) 19:58:20 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 19:58:25 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:59:10 Will this help somehow? 20:02:00 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@nat60-100.net.kcls.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:32 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:48 francogrex [~user@91.182.161.45] has joined #lisp 20:03:13 Hi, what do you think of this project? https://github.com/gwkkwg/cl-containers 20:03:19 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:04:21 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:28 i used to have a utility (which I probably wrote myself) which allowed me to get my def macros to play well with M-. on multiple implementations  does anybody know of something similar I can use? 20:05:15 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192156.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:18 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:27 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 20:06:25 bhyde: what exactly is wrong with M-. and def macros? Everything seems to be fine for me. 20:07:49 hitecnologys: if your def does not expand to a defun or defvar or some other definition that leaves behind source location information, M-. will not work for symbols used as the definition name. 20:08:45 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.29] has joined #lisp 20:09:15 for example I have code that looks like "(defcss alert ()  :border "red" ) and i want to be able to M-. on occurrences of alert and get back to it's definition. 20:09:46 H4ns: oh, I just didn't use it on "right" macros then, sorry 20:09:55 bhyde: i wanted the same a few weeks ago but i ended up giving up on it. 20:10:13 josemanuel [~josemanue@115.213.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:11:15 bhyde: that does not mean anything, of course. i found it troublesome is what i meant to say. 20:11:39 :) 20:12:50 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66.87.117.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:26 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 20:18:42 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 20:20:55 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.161.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:26 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abov21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:22:59 H4ns: I bet stassats has the slime and sbcl-fu to make it happen on that platform. 20:23:06 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.158.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:56 Corvidium [~cosman246@50-47-80-152.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:01 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abou200.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:25:38 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abov21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:54 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:26:30 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:11 mikecsh [~mikecsh@82.112.141.119] has joined #lisp 20:29:18 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29:20 -!- _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:30:26 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:07 -!- lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:40 i never remember how to handle this... i accidentally got an extra close-paren in a paredit-slime-buffer, but backspace doesn't delete it (because of the 'unbalanced parens')... how do i delete the close-paren? 20:33:09 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:34:27 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:28 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:41 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:36:01 -!- hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: too cold to function] 20:36:24 _main_ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:04 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:37:28 pw_ [~user@91-64-34-40-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:29 C-u DEL should work 20:37:43 -!- pw_ [~user@91-64-34-40-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 20:37:52 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 20:38:22 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.91.54] has joined #lisp 20:38:25 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:38:25 or just use M-x backward-delete-char if you have some additional custom bindigns 20:38:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:39:42 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:07 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192156.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:40:08 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 20:40:27 antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 20:41:34 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 20:41:43 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.59.212.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:20 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 20:44:41 I've just opened my 3-months-old project and I'm pretty satisfied with code, cool 20:45:03 pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:46:53 -!- antgreen_ [green@nat/redhat/x-jvbhsweamshftkxb] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:47 Why don't I write such code all the time? 20:48:59 Are you asking that in disgust, in wonder, or as a call to action? 20:49:25 -!- dfox [~dfox@178.248.252.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:49:44 (Hint: The last is the best, especially if you follow through.) 20:49:52 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.59.212.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 20:51:02 I just wonder why I wrote such beaturiful (for me of course, not absolutely beautiful) code that time and now my code is a lot uglier. 20:51:33 I probably need to rewrite everything, again. 20:51:57 Even the "beautiful" code, or just everything else? 20:52:32 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:52:49 If I wrote it that means I can make it even better so all the code. 20:53:17 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 20:53:21 Well enough, then. 20:54:00 Are you thinking to throw it out and start from scratch, or to rewrite it incrementally? 20:56:06 Some from scratch, some (which are too complex to just start over) incrementatlly. 20:56:39 Okay, good luck! (-: 20:56:55 Thanks, I probably need one. 20:57:49 And now I need to go catch a train. 20:57:52 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 20:58:16 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d8152b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:58:38 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:46 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 20:59:25 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:25 -!- BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:43 I'm a little confused about the CHARACTER class - if I (make-array 10 :element-type 'CHARACTER) is it ok to just return a string of one byte characters (I don't do unicode) - the same string I would return if I called (make-array 10 :element-type 'BASE-CHAR). 21:01:53 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:02:39 yes, if base-char and character are the same type. 21:02:40 STANDARD-CHAR, BASE-CHAR, EXTENDED-CHAR, CHARACTER - too many kinds of char. 21:02:57 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@115.213.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:19 Since I'm doing one byte/char they are. 21:03:56 Another question - I'm about to start adding serious garbage collection to my CL implementation. 21:04:28 I'm going to use the Memory Pool System - it looks great. Does anyone have any experience with it or thoughts on it? 21:04:51 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:07:08 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.55.82] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:07:24 dfox [~dfox@178.248.252.211] has joined #lisp 21:08:02 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:08:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:55 MPS has an Automatic Mostly Copying GC that can run asynchronously in another thread or synchronously. It looks really nice. 21:09:13 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:09:35 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 21:09:38 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has joined #lisp 21:09:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has quit [Changing host] 21:09:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:10:00 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 21:12:57 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:13:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:45 josemanuel [~josemanue@161.181.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 21:15:55 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjtzndxpqzchznbz] has joined #lisp 21:17:32 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:17:32 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:21 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:19:29 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:19:45 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:34 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003f55.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:27:03 A STRING-STREAM for use with (with-output-to-string (f fstr) ...) is intended for writing to CL objects of type STRING that have a fill-pointer and are adjustable using VECTOR-PUSH-EXTEND - correct? I implemented it differently (using C++ std::ostringstream) and now I'm realizing I should change it to write to a CL STRING. 21:29:32 Basically - I need to implement the ECL function MAKE-STRING-OUTPUT-STREAM-FROM-STRING and if I change my STRING-OUT-STREAM to operate on my STRING-WITH-FILL-PTR rather than std::ostringstream then STRING-OUT-STREAM is more useful. 21:30:09 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:35 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 21:30:51 -!- Oberon4278 is now known as Outsideberon 21:31:11 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:21 drmeister: i think it's basically make-string-output-stream and then get-output-stream-string, if the string isn't provided 21:35:13 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-094.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:36:26 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 21:36:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:36:37 Right - I'm wrestling with what to do when the string is provided. It looks like I need to create some sort of output-string-stream class that operates on the string. I'll cook up an example. 21:36:51 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:37 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:37:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:45 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has joined #lisp 21:37:46 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 21:37:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.214] has quit [Changing host] 21:37:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:38:19 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.91.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:38:23 -!- wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:38:29 Got one: 21:38:33 (defvar *a* (make-array 10 :element-type 'character :fill-pointer 0 :adjustable t)) 21:38:33 (with-output-to-string (f *a*) (format f "Hi ") (print *a*) (format f "there ") (print *a*)) 21:38:46 It prints "Hi" "Hi there". 21:38:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:39:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:39 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-199-222-155.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:39:51 That means that the string in *a* is taken over by the STRING-STREAM in f and as its being written to you can access the incomplete contents of the string through *a*. 21:39:51 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:08 drmeister: "If string is supplied, element-type is ignored, and the output is incrementally appended to string as if by use of vector-push-extend." 21:40:14 BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-199-222-155.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:40:27 xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-130-144.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:41 Yup - there I go - I should read the documentation three times rather than just two. 21:40:54 Thanks. 21:41:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:36 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-130-144.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:30 I guess I'm just wrestling with whether I change my old OUTPUT-STRING-STREAM class or make a new one. Six of one - half a dozen of the other I guess. 21:43:10 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.49.105] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 21:43:58 prip [~foo@host138-242-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:45:05 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:47:43 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:52:30 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:17 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-147-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55:43 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@50-47-80-152.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:24 -!- Outsideberon is now known as Oberon4278 21:58:32 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:59:43 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:00 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:06 vlion [~vlion@66-87-71-156.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:32 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:05:47 hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 22:05:54 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:28 lduros` [~user@pool-98-115-48-162.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:28 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:32 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:05 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 22:09:11 ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-99.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:18 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:12:24 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.254] has joined #lisp 22:13:14 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:26 bitonic [~user@90.203.140.39] has joined #lisp 22:13:27 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.254] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:26 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.254] has joined #lisp 22:17:38 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.59.212.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:31 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@82.112.141.119] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 22:19:49 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-22-98.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:21:53 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:47 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@AMontpellier-651-1-29-45.w90-57.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:26:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:26:36 -!- vlion [~vlion@66-87-71-156.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - 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