00:02:45 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 00:03:09 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.167.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:03:47 Blkt [~user@82.84.137.154] has joined #lisp 00:03:58 nialo-2 [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:53 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-81.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:46 <|3b|> is there a dynamic binding of X in that exa 00:06:49 <|3b|> example? 00:07:01 |3b|: yes... it's x 00:07:08 (defparameter x 6) 00:07:24 i meant it's six 00:07:26 <|3b|> ah, so X is declaimed special so those declares are redundant? 00:07:46 <|3b|> DEFVAR and DEFPARAMETER both declaim the symbol to be special 00:07:59 <|3b|> so any use of that symbol for a binding is special 00:08:09 aaah... i see 00:08:14 thank you |3b| 00:08:16 <|3b|> which is why we put the ** on the names 00:08:36 yes ... i read about that 00:08:45 in the practical lisp book 00:10:23 -!- nialo-2 [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:10:26 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-126.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:14 -!- francis_wolke [4441a942@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.65.169.66] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 00:15:02 (progn (defun g () (declare (special y)) (let ((y 7)) (list y (locally (declare (special y)) y) ))) (let ((y 3)) (declare (special y)) (g))) 00:15:10 i saw that example somewhere 00:18:37 |3b|` [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 00:18:58 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.243.55] has joined #lisp 00:19:23 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:26 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.248.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:57 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 00:21:49 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.6] has joined #lisp 00:23:12 zRecursive [~czsq888@220.166.238.208] has joined #lisp 00:24:06 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 00:26:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:27:14 -!- sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:30:04 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-103-52.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:30:50 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.137.154] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:31:07 -!- daem0n [~lurk3r@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:31:31 Blkt [~user@82.84.159.152] has joined #lisp 00:37:53 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:42:04 -!- pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:44:04 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:47:07 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 00:50:03 sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:04 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:41 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-4-143.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:57:40 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:26 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-143-245.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:58:37 so .. after (let ((y 7))...  y is lexical 01:01:39 no. 01:03:22 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:11 yes yes 01:07:12 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.24] has joined #lisp 01:07:16 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:07:38 Does anybody know of a lisp that can be used instead of Javascript for browser scripting? 01:08:03 MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@174-21-142-115.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:41 can conkeror do such things 01:09:51 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50458.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:42 MithrilTux [~MithrilTu@174-21-142-115.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:53 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 01:12:42 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50db7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:13:59 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 01:14:01 hmm maybe http://www.progmatism.com/software/kamen/ 01:14:08 -!- MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@174-21-142-115.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:29 you have to search for browser specific plugins most probably more than lisp implementations, to find that 01:16:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.155.31.10] has joined #lisp 01:17:19 ManAmongHippos: I think I've more often seen some lisp-type langauge compiled to javascript for browser use. 01:17:32 e.g. parenscript 01:18:03 indeed, and also now some partial lisp implementations in javascript 01:18:24 daem0n [~lurk3r@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 01:19:15 I didn't check, but it's not impossible for gtk-html or equivalent to support guile, which would be a scheme, perhaps also worth checking 01:19:28 then again that'd remain browser-specific 01:20:38 me is reading clon documentation, and a guy is a comedian. "Extended switches result from the mating of a male switch and a female enumeration, or the other way around (elementary decency prevents me from describing this mating process in detail):" 01:21:53 I have enjoyed hanging out with Didier Verna at various Lisp conferences, most recently in Madrid. 01:23:13 well maybe I'll travel to next one, now that I got my citizenship 01:23:24 -!- rk[food] is now known as kryankarason 01:23:26 if I don't blow my account first that is :-) 01:23:49 Next one I'm attending is in Montreal 01:24:28 ah a great city, was there on loan once 01:24:46 Xach: me too, hopefully (: 01:25:32 pkhuong: set aside time on your calendar in advance 01:25:54 the months of september, october, & november should hopefully cover it 01:28:05 -!- kryankarason is now known as ryankarason 01:29:12 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:01 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 01:32:40 n2kra [~n2kra@pool-71-187-70-233.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:42 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:54 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:42:27 antgreen_ [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 01:42:49 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43:40 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:23 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.149.31] has joined #lisp 01:55:24 rationalrevolt [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:06 -!- rationalrevolt [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 02:02:11 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:04:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:07:44 -!- daem0n [~lurk3r@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:09:09 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:20 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:34 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.24] has quit [Quit: ManAmongHippos] 02:14:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:14:54 jimrthy [~james@cpe-70-112-206-173.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:59 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:36 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 02:26:44 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:19 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 02:28:34 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.103.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:33:10 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 02:35:30 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:54 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:19 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 02:50:40 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 02:51:29 Ryan_Burnside [~ryan@63-153-69-21.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:01 Hello. Can anyone take a peek at this? http://pastebin.com/0AVA7npC I'm writing an XML tag grabber. THe debugger mentions some IN[ut-error-in-compile file. 02:54:12 francis_wolke [4441a942@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.65.169.66] has joined #lisp 02:55:30 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 02:57:35 Ryan_Burnside: with-open-file already includes an implicit progn, there is no need for do there 02:57:58 phadthai: I will correct that now. Thank you. 02:58:35 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 02:59:05 hmm actually that shouldn't be the error, I think I'm not awake enough :) 03:00:14 that code seems allright 03:00:29 I can host the xml file if you like. 03:00:34 (it should be well formed) 03:01:36 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@71-82-12-187.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:53 phadthat: This is the error SLIME gives... 0: ((LAMBDA () :IN SB-C:COMPILER-ERROR)) 03:02:54 [No Locals] 03:04:49 Ah, there was a problem with my (defparameter not being closed. 03:05:22 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:01 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-130-144.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 03:08:44 perhaps the code you pasted wasn't really related? But I'm glad you found the bug if so 03:09:42 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:17:47 One other question. When wanting to add things to the beginning of a buffer, is it best to just use cons many times, then reverse the list? 03:18:13 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.108] has joined #lisp 03:21:44 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:01 if you have many thing to add that could be fast yes, other options could be to keep and update a reference to the tail of the list, or to use vector-push-extend on a vector 03:24:39 phadthai: Thank you. Still learning the best ways to do things in Common Lisp. 03:26:03 there of course also are implementations of other list types such as doubly linked lists in libraries, where the tail is known and updated 03:26:45 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:18 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:34:48 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 03:35:12 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.149.31] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:40:18 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:43:42 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:05 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:39 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:46:46 -!- Ryan_Burnside [~ryan@63-153-69-21.hlna.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: 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[~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:34:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:34:38 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:40:13 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 04:41:05 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:46:16 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:46:46 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-11-211.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:46:46 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:54 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.37.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:55:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:58:02 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:58:31 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-196-105.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:41 If I want define a macro FOO: (defmacro foo ((&key (a ' ' ("a" "b")))) `(print ,a)) 04:59:56 If I define a macro FOO: (defmacro foo ((&key (a ' ' ("a" "b")))) `(print ,a)) 04:59:59 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:00:23 So that (macroexpand '(foo ())) ---> (print '("a" "b")) 05:00:49 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:00:55 Is using two quotes for the default form for the key argument A what I typically should do? 05:01:08 Two single quotes that is. 05:03:54 for a macro? yeah, i'd think so 05:07:12 Ok, it just looked a little weird but it makes sense now that I've been staring at it for a while. 05:13:31 -!- jimrthy [~james@cpe-70-112-206-173.austin.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 05:14:23 I'm defining a macro (defmacro with-new-function ((&key (fn-type '+fn-int+) (args ' ' ( "int" ))) &rest body) ...) because I want the expansion to refer to the constant +fn-int+ and '("int") and not the value of +fn-int+ and the literal (list "int") - if that makes sense. 05:18:30 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 05:23:58 you'd like a macro to expand some code to '+fn-int+ instead of +fn-int+? 05:25:31 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:26:23 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 05:27:58 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 05:28:37 nostoi [~nostoi@148.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:15 -!- popper66 [~popper66@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:48 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[zzz] 05:37:55 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:38:06 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-142-134.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:28 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:40:07 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:42:45 ejohnson 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DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.134.60] has joined #lisp 06:12:24 has anyone successfully used cl-ftp on Windows? 06:15:46 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c14d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:26 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:16:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:16:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:21:56 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d8155cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 06:23:14 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@148.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 06:23:26 nha [~prefect@koln-5d8155cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:11 Joreji [~thomas@70-219.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:25:37 loke [~user@c-89c9e555.019-163-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:27:24 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:27:44 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has 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[~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:00 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest8323 07:36:08    07:37:08 balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 07:37:24 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 07:37:37 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:37:37 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:37:42 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 07:38:58 Just added the ability to utilize entire categories to Quickutil. 07:39:53 -!- Guest8323 [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:41:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@70-219.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:13 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:42 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:46:35 hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.80.122] has joined #lisp 07:48:55 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:49:23 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:25 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:49:26 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 07:51:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:51:40 -!- loke [~user@c-89c9e555.019-163-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:52:04 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:52:10 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:54:05 hajovonta [dhsvfz@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 07:54:08 hello 07:57:58 (qtl:utilize-categories :alexandria) ;; :) 07:58:01 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/session] has joined #lisp 07:58:21 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/session] has quit [Changing host] 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timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:04 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 08:12:23 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.124.244.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 08:12:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:16:20 -!- loke [~user@c-89c9e555.019-163-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:21:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.222] has joined #lisp 08:21:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.222] has quit [Changing host] 08:21:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:22:23 loke [~user@c-89c9e555.019-163-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:25:26 Krystof: ping 08:26:01 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:30 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.35.20] has joined #lisp 08:31:34 slyrus: ping 08:31:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:32:16 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 08:35:02 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:28 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 08:38:58 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00357f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:05 #join python 08:43:48 :) 08:47:57 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:48:10 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-204-30.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:50:02 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:33 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:14 zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has joined #lisp 08:51:54 ;Good morning! 08:53:58 ehu [~Erik@109.38.87.118] has joined #lisp 08:57:09 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jqouourttmuuthpd] has joined #lisp 08:57:09 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jqouourttmuuthpd] has quit [Changing host] 08:57:09 ramkrsna 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quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:28 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 09:29:53 hi fe[nl]ix 09:30:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:32 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:30:39 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:12 -!- |3b|` [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:19 |3b|` [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 09:35:48 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:51 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-142-134.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:37:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:30 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:40:09 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:42:56 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 hi Blkt 09:44:18 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:44:21 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:44:30 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 09:44:55 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:46:48 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:49:37 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 09:51:11 fe[nl]ix: you rang? 09:52:08 Hi. how to split a line on whitespace in CL? 09:52:27 yati: there's a library named split-sequence 09:52:53 Krystof: I was wondering what's the state of R integration with CL 09:53:19 a coworker is trying rcl but he's having problems with the CL side keeping references to R objects that get moved during GC 09:53:21 fe[nl]ix, an external one I presume, as slime shows no completion(I read about split-sequence on a FAQ list) 09:54:10 fe[nl]ix: personally I don't use direct R/CL integration 09:54:21 instead I use swankr 09:54:26 ok 09:54:28 (and program in R) 09:56:04 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:09 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:59:18 yati: check this out http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/strings.html#reverse 09:59:35 you can modify it freely where you need to. 10:01:00 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:01:06 hajovonta, thanks :) 10:02:02 It would be really great if I could search the CLHS :\ 10:03:33 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.35.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:03:53 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:05:01 yati: you can easily google it with something like "clhs string trim" 10:05:12 you could grep in a local copy, but with a local copy you can also tell slime where it is and have it launch a relevant page from the symbol at point/cursor 10:05:49 s/launch/open in a browser/ 10:06:11 also very useful if offline for some reason 10:06:21 hajovonta, yeah that's what I do currently, but a searchable offline version would be slick :) 10:06:54 phadthai, gotta try that. As currently, I use (describe 'foo) 10:07:22 if you can set up in slime, it's super cool. you just press a button and you get clhs in another buffer in emacs 10:07:25 But for example, (describe 'loop) is useless 10:07:34 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 10:07:39 hajovonta, have a link? 10:08:17 I am new to both Lisp and emacs :) 10:08:19 no, but i had an .emacs file from somewhere from internet and it was included there, but i lost it since then 10:08:26 Ah 10:08:36 yeah me too 10:08:53 i try to find it for you 10:08:54 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:01 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 10:09:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:09:59 (setq common-lisp-hyperspec-root "file:///home/whoever/HyperSpec-7-0/HyperSpec/") 10:10:00 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.139] has joined #lisp 10:10:06 http://www.cliki.net/clhs has a pointer to a file clhs.el which you can include inemacs 10:10:29 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137646 10:10:38 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:59 the first part goes in ~/.emacs of course 10:11:17 i prefer searching in google though 10:11:49 as for the script to open the page it could use open-url, firefox etc instead, but in my case I use urxvt+tmux with emacs-nox11 10:12:03 and setting up w3c for emacs was more trouble 10:12:22 phadthai, hajovonta thanks. I'll try this out. 10:12:27 phadthai, w3c? 10:12:49 err hmm I forgot the name of the other browser, not w3c sorry :) 10:12:56 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-212.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:13:16 i have given up on w3c 10:13:26 what does the "then" in a for loop do? e.g., (loop for i = 0 then (some form) ... ) ? 10:13:27 another text browser like lynx and links for which there exists some emacs support 10:13:33 ah 10:13:40 it's nearly impossible to set up for an emacs beginner 10:14:22 yati: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 10:14:23 mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has joined #lisp 10:14:26 search for "then" 10:14:38 Equals-Then Iteration paragraph 10:14:57 hajovonta, oh I'm reading that book cover to cover, BTW, at the "variables" chapter now :) 10:15:14 I thought it would be fun to take a detour and write a simple calculator 10:15:29 yati: it's a good book with lots of pretty accurate and useful information 10:15:29 But I stumbled at the very first step - splitting the input :P 10:15:52 yeah, and it is very understandable and not as huge as pg's book :) 10:16:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:16:37 hajovonta, do you mind a PM? 10:16:47 yati: no, 10:17:12 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:18:05 jute [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has joined #lisp 10:18:14 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@2.174.37.227] has quit [Client Quit] 10:23:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:24:01 any users of LispM emulators? I've been poking the C in meroko a Ti explorer emu. 10:24:56 that last sentence sounds super cool. 10:25:12 i don't understand a word from it :) 10:26:37 the emulator was written in C, only 1x 2M Word (mem8.c) card installed 10:27:12 and where are they used? 10:27:47 n2kra: nyef is probably the only person who you can meaningfully discuss this with 10:27:54 bitonic [~user@host81-149-254-17.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:11 google LispM (In slot 4) I made a mem8_s3, with all the Global vars & functions _s3 10:32:02 But there is mem (NuBus & Local Bus) contention during heavy Disk activity 10:32:02 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.223.150] has joined #lisp 10:32:02 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.223.150] has quit [Changing host] 10:32:02 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:32:02 -!- bitonic [~user@host81-149-254-17.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:32:03 bitonic [~user@host81-149-254-17.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:10 hajovont` [pxjm@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 10:32:18 *loke* is writing a tokeniser for the dpans document 10:32:28 it's annoying 10:32:41 -!- hajovont` is now known as hajovonta` 10:33:05 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:29 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:29 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:49 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:35:45 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:36:06 -!- hajovonta [dhsvfz@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:18 -!- hajovonta` is now known as hajovonta 10:36:41 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 10:36:54 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.83.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:37:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:37:27 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:37:30 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 10:37:36 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 10:38:05 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:35 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6464C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:43:52 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 10:48:28 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 10:49:16 -!- hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.80.122] has quit [Quit: ] 10:56:45 jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.22.208] has joined #lisp 10:59:46 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 10:59:57 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:03:20 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@119.52.22.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:04:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.155.31.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:05:34 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.185.18.195] has joined #lisp 11:06:17 -!- yati [~yati@116.203.170.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:07:17 -!- aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:08:20 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:10:11 it's annoying 11:10:13 oops 11:10:16 sorry 11:10:41 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 11:11:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.155.31.10] has joined #lisp 11:12:50 -!- bitonic [~user@host81-149-254-17.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:11 bitonic [~user@host81-149-254-17.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:48 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 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quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:37 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:49 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:38:59 Gnash_Breeches [~Michael@c-75-65-166-249.hsd1.la.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:20 Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:39:31 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:26 tankrim` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 11:40:52 -!- Guest77312 [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:41:24 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:26 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@242.Red-83-49-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:39 -!- tankrim` is now known as tankrim 11:45:50 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 11:47:14 abeaumont [~abeaumont@242.Red-83-49-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:22 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.185.18.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:24 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-212.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:59:22 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:03:10 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:03:12 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-204-30.uio.no] has quit [Quit: rudi] 12:03:23 Xach: lovely kid your zachary ... best wishesh to you and your familly.. be well 12:04:12 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@91.144.254.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:28 -!- easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:26 "you're" 12:06:58 echo-area [~user@123.120.255.7] has joined #lisp 12:07:20 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.224] has joined #lisp 12:07:51 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.185.18.195] has joined #lisp 12:08:42 easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 12:10:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-224.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:54 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:03 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.185.18.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:26 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:53 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 12:19:14 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:34 hey fe[nl]ix 12:19:49 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:21:08 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 12:21:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6464C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21:29 slyrus: any news about rclg ? 12:22:13 no. have you asked blindglobe? 12:22:20 is there some change in its status? 12:26:26 no, I didn't ask him 12:26:39 it just looks a bit stale 12:28:25 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:30:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:32:25 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:32:45 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.224] has joined #lisp 12:34:32 yes, it probably is :) 12:35:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:24 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:13 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-204-30.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:43:36 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:06 przl 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[~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 13:05:53 ralph-moeritz [~RalphM@196.37.229.15] has joined #lisp 13:08:09 adelgado [~TomSawyer@208.91.164.254] has joined #lisp 13:08:12 oudeis_ [~oudeis@95.35.55.5] has joined #lisp 13:09:05 hi, has anyone here used patty? common-lisp.net/project/patty 13:09:23 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:56 i've downloaded the tarball, extracted it into ~/quicklisp/local-projects & tried to (ql:quickload 'patty) but i get the following condition: 13:10:03 Using # in # 13:10:03 would cause name conflicts with symbols inherited by that package: 13:10:03 CLOSER-MOP:STANDARD-METHOD STANDARD-METHOD 13:10:03 CLOSER-MOP:STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION 13:10:03 CLOSER-MOP:DEFMETHOD DEFMETHOD 13:10:03 CLOSER-MOP:DEFGENERIC DEFGENERIC 13:10:04 CLOSER-MOP:STANDARD-CLASS STANDARD-CLASS 13:11:15 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-204-30.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 13:12:42 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@95.35.55.5] has quit [Client Quit] 13:13:47 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.55.5] has joined #lisp 13:13:50 i've tried the RESOLVE-BY-SHADOWING-IMPORT restart (both options: shadowing the closer-mop symbols or the cl ones. either way, if i try to do a (patty:deftype-class foo ()) i get this error: 13:14:04 wheelsucker [~user@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:08 Slot CCL::DIRECT-SUPERCLASSES is unbound in # can anyone suggest me a good book to begin learning LISP? I 13:15:37 want a language to learn AI, so I chose LISP 13:16:01 icarious: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book 13:16:07 That's a bad reason to learn lisp. :) 13:16:20 minion: tell icarious about gentle 13:16:20 icarious: direct your attention towards gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 13:16:24 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2448:643e:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:16:24 minion: tell icarious about pcl 13:16:24 icarious: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:16:25 But learning lisp is a good idea, anyhow. 13:16:36 Zhivago: another reason, i got inspired by RMS's comments on it 13:16:52 minion: thanks a ton matey 13:16:52 no problem 13:17:02 er bot 13:17:03 :S 13:17:06 if lisp was historically used for AI, wouldn't that suggest it's more suitable than usual for learning AI 13:17:07 minion: thanks a ton 13:17:07 you're welcome 13:17:15 p_l: thanks a ton then 13:17:18 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:17:39 are you suggesting Lisp is not good for AI? 13:17:41 Adeon: not necessarily. It's just that it gave a lot of freedom needed in such exploratory work when not much else offered it 13:17:52 -!- ralph-moeritz [~RalphM@196.37.229.15] has left #lisp 13:17:53 hmm, I see 13:18:01 ralph-moeritz [~RalphM@196.37.229.15] has joined #lisp 13:18:13 hajovonta: it's good, but for the same reasons it's good language in general (IMO) 13:18:16 adeon: If basic was used to control radio telescopes, wouldn't that suggest that it's more suitable than ususal for controlling radio telescopes? 13:18:25 ralph-moeritz: wait for Xach to answer your question 13:18:29 and any good IDE for LISP on GNU? basic features like synataxing and auto insert would do. 13:18:42 icarious: Emacs + SLIME 13:18:49 I feel sorry for the radio telescopes 13:18:53 There are two factors that complicate things -- firstly the basis of modern AI has shifted significantly toward statistical methods. 13:18:58 haha. why did i guess Emacs was coming. ok. SLIME? gotta search 13:19:04 actually, telescopes jumped ship to Forth iirc 13:19:05 icarious: nothing you may be used to. almost everyone uses Emacs + SLIME 13:19:15 icarious: but it's worth learning and get used to. 13:19:26 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2448:643e:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 13:19:41 The second is that the factors that contributed to lisp's popularity in AI are now more widespread. 13:19:54 So, if you learn lisp to learn AI, you may be disappointed. 13:19:55 hajovonta: ya i was planning to learn emacs too as it uses a lot of lisp like syntaxing from what i heard 13:20:21 Zhivago: then whats the best alternate for AI? offtopic question 13:20:26 icarious: yes you pay once and get two benefits 13:20:37 Well, AI is a big field -- what kind of AI are you interested in? 13:20:38 hajovonta: which? 13:20:52 Zhivago: speech recognition and performing basic tasks 13:21:02 Xach: ralph-moeritz had a question about patty loading in quicklisp 13:21:08 hajovonta: not really. 13:21:16 Well, speech recognition is one of those things that's firmly in the statistical camp. 13:21:21 hajovonta: It would have the same problem if quicklisp was not involved. 13:21:31 Xach: hi 13:21:38 Xach: i didn't know that, sorry. 13:21:40 You'd probably do well with something that handles DSP or at least number crunching well. 13:21:42 mmmm...coffee 13:22:01 I'd have a look at existing speech recognition systems and read papers on the subject. 13:22:21 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 13:22:21 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 13:22:40 Zhivago: are you aware of an AI problem which doesn't suit Lisp well? 13:22:43 Xach: do you have a min? 13:23:19 Well, lisp isn't particularly strong in the big data statistical analysis camp. 13:23:20 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:23:27 hi 13:23:31 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@203.192.156.9] has joined #lisp 13:23:34 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:23:35 It isn't particularly weak, just not particularly strong. 13:23:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:24:30 Lisp is pretty good at symbolic processing, which used to be the flavor of AI last century. 13:24:31 ralph-moeritz: was ist los? 13:24:40 Xach: :) 13:24:46 and also , can a non coder start of with LISP? or its better to go with BASH>Python>Lisp in that order 13:24:46 Xach: trying to load patty via ql 13:25:00 ralph-moeritz: I saw...you would have the same issue if QL was not involved. 13:25:06 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.99.123] has joined #lisp 13:25:08 what do you mean for "non coder"? 13:25:17 icarious: There are some decent introductory books and tutorials. 13:25:19 Blkt: "code noob" like me 13:25:30 I think noone should start with BASH 13:25:32 Xach: first it complains about shadowing of defclass et al by closer-mop 13:25:33 code noobs can start with lisp, yes 13:25:40 icarious: just experiment with whatever you find interesting. 13:25:45 ok thanks, thats all i needed 13:25:46 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:16 ralph-moeritz: you should contact the developers of patty 13:26:27 minion: tell icarious about sicp 13:26:27 icarious: I really think one shouldn't learn bash script as the first language, as one shouldn't learn ELisp as the first language 13:26:27 icarious: please see sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 13:26:32 Xach: sorry, i should have clarified. i know it's not QL's fault, just thought you could help. 13:26:34 *icarious* adds #lisp to the list of channels to join regularly 13:26:48 Blkt: thanks a lot :) 13:27:00 hajovonta: have tried to. stefan didn't reply to my mail 13:27:03 icarious: it's a weird language. But yeah, some flavors of Lisp can be nice to beginners 13:27:21 that's the best I read about computation in general, but it's not Common Lisp, it's Scheme 13:27:25 ralph-moeritz: nope, sorry. i've never used patty and haven't used the MOP. 13:27:30 then I'd go for PCL, and then PAIP 13:27:55 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@203.192.156.9] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:27:56 Blkt: he asked about Lisp, not CL, to be fair. Scheme is a Lisp 13:28:12 I just wanted to be precise 13:28:17 "Is a LISP" dialects? 13:28:23 exactly 13:28:25 Xach: ok cool, thanks for taking the time to reply. 13:28:28 wonderful 13:28:37 hajovonta: thanks 13:28:45 you're welcome 13:28:47 good channel 13:29:03 i'm sorry you did not get an answer 13:29:03 icarious: Lisp is not a language per se. It's a family of languages with similar traits, like untyped lambda calculus (which I'm not certain that's required) and homoiconicity 13:29:21 ya got that 13:29:29 ralph-moeritz: there are many abandoned projects and that's sad. 13:29:48 ah, I had a question too! 13:30:09 hajovonta: agreed, but that's true of open-source in general imho 13:30:19 I'm looking for copies of Anatomy of Lisp and On Lisp 13:30:19 Hmm, is there a terse thing for getting the class precedence list given the name of a class? 13:30:25 does anyone know where can I find them? 13:30:36 on paper 13:30:58 ok, apropos is my friend here. compute-class-precedence-list looks like the winner 13:31:19 Blkt, lulu.com, at least on lisp 13:31:20 Blkt: On Lisp is free, isn't it? Reading it on a tablet is just fine 13:31:40 Denommus: I wanted a paper copy 13:31:45 Blkt: I got Anatomy of Lisp from ebay long ago. I never read it and sold it along. 13:32:00 Blkt: oh, a old school reader. That's fine :) 13:32:04 *hajovonta* dreams of an up-to-date usocket documentation 13:32:11 Blkt: indeed there are several copies currently on ebay 13:32:34 Blkt: you could check how much it would cost to print it yourself 13:33:32 Denommus: a lot less than buy the original books, but I really want them :D 13:33:39 Xach: thanks for the hint 13:33:45 elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:27 Blkt: old-old-school, then XD 13:35:47 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-212.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:36:05 anticardium88 [~anticardi@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:15 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:22 -!- ralph-moeritz [~RalphM@196.37.229.15] has left #lisp 13:38:24 Blkt: abebooks.com also has a bunch of copies available 13:38:42 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:39:27 ralph-moeritz [~user@196.37.229.15] has joined #lisp 13:41:12 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@203.192.156.9] has joined #lisp 13:41:36 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-212.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:42:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:42:26 okay, time for a dumb question. is it possible to use an alias for an external package? eg. i want to type `bt:make-thread' instead of `bordeaux-threads:make-thread'. 13:42:41 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:29 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:43:41 ralph-moeritz: you can do that already 13:43:59 gendl_ [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:11 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:15 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:44:15 -!- gendl_ is now known as gendl 13:44:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:44:33 -!- pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:44:42 -!- icarious [~icarious@unaffiliated/icarious] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:44:57 fe[nl]ix: how? (sorry, google-fu failing me today) 13:45:18 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 13:45:28 fe[nl]ix: wait, are you saying `bt' is already a nickname for `bordeaux-threads'? 13:46:42 fe[nl]ix: ok, sorry for being stupid. 13:47:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:48:21 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:48:21 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 hahaha 13:48:31 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:43 ralph-moeritz: have a look at the defpackage form to see the :nicknames 13:49:03 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-212.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:05 or the result of package-nicknames 13:49:20 rename-package can probably add nicknames for you if one is not available 13:49:31 cool 13:49:43 samebchase, Xach: thanks 13:51:05 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:04 -!- anticardium88 [~anticardi@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:37 schematise53 [~schematis@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:19 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 13:54:43 -!- MithrilTux [~MithrilTu@174-21-142-115.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:02 lkjh_ [~lkjh@170.20.11.31] has joined #lisp 13:59:52 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:00:26 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:39 Xach: rename-package works but one thing that bothers me about it is this comment in the hyperspec: "The consequences are undefined if new-name or any new-nickname conflicts with any existing package names" 14:01:27 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:26 Yeah, that's the "probably" part. 14:02:47 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:03:42 ralph-moeritz: don't rename your package "COMMON-LISP" :) 14:04:05 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:04:09 ralph-moeritz: if you're on SBCL, you can also work with package-local nicknames 14:04:21 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:05:10 -!- schematise53 [~schematis@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:40 pkhuong: sadly, sbcl doesn't work well on either my windows desktop or my linux mini-vps with 128mb of ram - but ccl does :) 14:05:51 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:05:53 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 14:06:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-4.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:45 devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:48 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 14:10:54 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:12:18 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@208.91.164.254] has left #lisp 14:12:47 is something that work well today in 128M ? 14:13:15 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 14:14:20 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:14:56 rszeno: sure, lots of stuff. eg. you can run some minimalistic webservers in 64M. 14:15:50 rszeno: that's one thing i love about common lisp vs clojure: you don't have to drag the entire jvm around with you. 14:16:11 even the kernel is huge, :) 14:16:28 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.215] has joined #lisp 14:17:07 ralph-moeritz, you can run a webserver in 100KB. 14:19:52 jdoles: not if it's written in common lisp though. ccl uses 28M+ & last time i checked sbcl was closer to 40M. even the ecl runtime weighs in at a hefty 9M! 14:20:29 sellout- [~Adium@64.134.221.202] has joined #lisp 14:20:42 ralph-moeritz, I agree with your statement. 14:20:42 ralph-moeritz: I had SBCL emit a hello world in 10 KB once.. it's "just" a matter of making these hacks scale ;) 14:21:23 pkhuong: ILTWYS"J". 14:21:46 nyef: or ""J"" 14:22:00 That too. (-: 14:22:18 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:05 "\"j\"" 14:24:17 LiamH: that's the signal to go get some french guillemets. 14:25:31 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-talhsblkytipzsng] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:37 or curly quotes 14:27:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:27:30 pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:27:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:07 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 14:29:01 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:29:48 «======» 14:30:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:31:53 iglu [~nick@124-148-219-253.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 14:32:37 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:22 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:28 jangle 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timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:06 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.101.195] has joined #lisp 16:14:05 someone just told me the latest quicklisp update has a bad slime, with M-. and completion hanging 16:14:16 nyef? speaking of small RAM looks like the TI explorer max swap / VM is 128M ? 16:14:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:14:53 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:55 *Xach* wonders about the details 16:14:58 any users of LispM emulators? I've been poking the C in meroko a Ti explorer emu. 16:15:04 the emulator was written in C, only 1x 2M Word (mem8.c) card installed 16:15:20 (In slot 4) I made a mem8_s3, with all the Global vars & functions _s3 16:15:26 Don't remember offhand, but ISTR that the address space is something like 25 bits, word indexed. 16:15:29 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:15:30 But there is mem (NuBus & Local Bus) contention during heavy Disk activity 16:16:23 I'm more partial to Nevermore than to Meroko, but I don't know that the last version of Nevermore actually got released... 16:17:53 And my need to use it disappeared about fifteen minutes before it actually worked (and about an hour or so before Meroko worked, thanks to dseagrav having torn apart one of the major subsystems on Meroko when I figured out the last niggling little bug that prevented Nevermore from running Lisp code). 16:18:06 I think reading the manuals, only 1 is supposed to be NuBus Master 16:18:41 That's plausible, yes. 16:19:18 You would probably want all of the memory boards on the memory bus, but only one of them doing the busmaster thing on the NuBus. 16:20:54 josemanuel [~josemanue@137.42.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:21:30 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:10 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:34:23 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 16:34:29 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ulaolvqsmojgwxzd] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 16:34:32 kyled2 [~kyled@12.226.162.162] has joined #lisp 16:35:54 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 16:37:13 linkrules [~linkrules@221.214.165.207] has joined #lisp 16:38:31 test 16:38:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.51] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:39:53 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 16:42:54 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 16:46:12 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:46:28 loke [~user@c-89c9e555.019-163-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:46:43 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:47:31 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:51:22 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:33 -!- linkrules [~linkrules@221.214.165.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:56:09 -!- kyled2 [~kyled@12.226.162.162] has left #lisp 16:57:05 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@137.42.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:57:25 ericmath1son [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:03 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:12 joebloggs59 [~user@37.221.169.133] has joined #lisp 16:58:37 josemanuel [~josemanue@235.227.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:02:32 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:03:15 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.124.244.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00357f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:03:54 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Client Quit] 17:07:37 Hello everybody! 17:07:47 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:13 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-82.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:34 hitecnologys: hi to you too 17:11:57 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:12:12 Hi 17:13:43 Did I miss something this time? 17:18:45 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:20:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.163] has joined #lisp 17:20:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.163] has quit [Changing host] 17:20:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:20:39 Yay... I'm tokenising the dict-arrays.tex 17:21:36 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:23:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137656 17:23:18 Next step is to parse it 17:24:19 elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-11-211.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:27:32 -!- joebloggs59 [~user@37.221.169.133] has left #lisp 17:29:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:46 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-47-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:34:54 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:36:07 Does cl-ncurses work for anybody? (from quicklisp) It doesn't want to read my libncurses.so file. 17:38:44 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 17:38:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.155.31.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:05 dr_diamond [~Nicolas@unaffiliated/dr-diamond/x-6130392] has joined #lisp 17:40:21 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:41:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.163] has joined #lisp 17:42:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.163] has quit [Changing host] 17:42:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:45:14 antgreen_: you have to manually hack the path for it on most modern distros i've tried sadly 17:45:36 oGMo, tried that. no go. 17:45:48 then again i've also had it segfault unpredictably so i sortof gave up 17:45:52 nilsi [~nilsi@2.68.124.244.mobile.tre.se] has joined #lisp 17:45:59 I just need a couple of things out of it, so I'm going to code up a cffi interface. 17:46:00 antgreen_: make sure you're pointing at a real .so and not a fake .so that's a script 17:46:12 (that's the primary problem i've seen) 17:46:44 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:50:13 -!- sellout- [~Adium@64.134.221.202] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:50:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:51:05 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:51:55 aw|sovereign [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 17:55:12 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-195-208.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:36 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:58:11 problem solved. cffi is super easy to use. 17:58:26 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 17:59:17 daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 18:00:08 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abny91.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:08:29 mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:37 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 18:09:35 Trying to reload some code but get a "No restart MUFFLE-WARNING is active for…" anyone know what that is? 18:13:00 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:13:21 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:15:42 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:15:44 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:47 mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:13 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:22:13 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:22:13 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:22:13 -!- zz_runningskull [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:22:14 -!- sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:22:14 -!- subtlepath [~walker@subtlepath.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:22:18 yati [~yati@116.203.170.118] has joined #lisp 18:22:20 sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:22:33 stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:54 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:59 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:01 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:02 zz_runningskull [~runningsk@li77-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:02 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:22 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:23:48 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:26:55 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:29:43 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:30:03 mskou72: I've not studied the warning muffling closely, but what it says is that it wants to muffle a warning, and has no restart to do it. 18:30:27 mskou72: Perhaps you could wrap this loading into a with-simple-restart, or you could disable warning muffling? 18:31:08 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@235.227.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:12 ASau` [~user@p5797F6A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:42 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF97857.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:37:05 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:37:24 pjb: will try, thanks. 18:42:19 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:42:53 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48:00 josemanuel [~josemanue@209.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:51:04 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:52:09 oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:52:23 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 18:53:24 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:56:13 bitonic [~user@2.220.169.172] has joined #lisp 18:57:57 How to properly stop bordeaux thread? I'd like to use condition signaling but it looks like I can't send conditions between threads. 19:00:13 (actually, bordeaux-threads just uses sbcl threads so I'm interested in stopping sbcl thread) 19:01:02 -!- easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:01:49 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 19:02:18 -!- bitonic [~user@2.220.169.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02:25 sb-thread has interrupt-thread, but if you want to keep your system robust, you want to poll from time to time in any thread that might be interrupted. 19:02:44 hitecnologys: you should be able to "send" conditions between threads. 19:03:15 hitecnologys: only, one doesn't "send" conditions. A thread can be blocked on a condition, and another can signal it, unblocking the blocked thread. 19:03:21 nyef_ [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:26 pkhuong: I need to execute custom code on thread termination so interrupt-thread is probably not what I'm looking for 19:04:01 -!- Gnash_Breeches [~Michael@c-75-65-166-249.hsd1.la.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:04:20 pjb: how can I signal condition to another thread? When I signal condition in one thread it doesn't appear in another. 19:04:55 pjb: is there some kind of special function for this? 19:05:07 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 19:05:16 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 19:05:41 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:05:55 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06:00 hitecnologys: you can interrupt the thread with a function that signals a condition. 19:06:12 hitecnologys: The best way is probably to have some kind of shared state that the thread that you want to terminate polls periodically. 19:06:26 Using interrupt-thread is usually a bad idea. 19:07:23 nyef_: the problem is that 90% of the time my thread just hangs and waits for some connections. 19:07:30 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:07:43 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:08:05 add a timeout to avoid waiting for too long. 19:08:23 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:08:55 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:10 hitecnologys: how is that a problem? 19:09:29 Have more user to connect more often! 19:09:32 pkhuong: sounds like a good idea 19:10:53 anyway, I need something to instantly stop a thread and execute custom code in it to do cleanup. Is interrupt-thread safe enough? What would happen if something unpleasant occurs? 19:11:14 SBCL crashes irrecuperably. 19:11:31 You would have to take care of mutexes. There could be places where you want to be interrupted. 19:13:02 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 19:13:49 pjb: how would mutexes help me to instantly terminate the thread? 19:14:47 there is no such thing as "instantly" when threads are involved. 19:15:20 I'm newbie in threading, sorry for this =P 19:15:20 They wouldn't. I mean mutexes in the general meaning of mutual exclusion areas. If you have a thread that must be alone in such a place, it couldn't exit before leaving cleanly that place. So it should ignore the interruptions while in here. 19:15:51 -!- tseno [~user@92-247-203-66.spectrumnet.bg] has left #lisp 19:16:13 hitecnologys: threads share state with other threads; if you instantly kill a thread, you can leave that state potentially in an invalid state, so killing threads isn't safe 19:16:21 pjb: ah you meant that. I already did something like this. 19:16:25 That's why the best way to do it is to have just a flag and loop until the flag is true. You can easily atomically set it when you want the thread stop looping, but you'll have to expect it complete a loop before it does exit. 19:16:43 hitecnologys: instead you should have threads periodically check for some signal to die 19:17:01 So, the only valid soluion is to set timeout to usocket:wait-for-input? 19:17:55 Yes, I would do that, instead of infinitely waiting. Which doesn't occur either, the kernel can exit a syscall for whatever reason, so you already have a loop anyways. 19:17:58 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:18:22 hitecnologys: or you can just not use threads and instead use processes; processes have well defined cleanup semantics and don't share state by default 19:18:22 Ok, thanks a lot for help. 19:18:27 is it possible to launch an error in a specific thread? Because it's also a possibility. You throw an error in that thread, and the thread handles this as a stop signal 19:18:55 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.152.35] has joined #lisp 19:19:07 Denommus: I actually wanted that but condition system doesn't support it. 19:19:11 Denommus: yes (well, on sbcl, anyway). But what did you interrupt with that error? Another cleanup? 19:19:52 bitonic [~user@2.217.103.218] has joined #lisp 19:19:53 Wow, I didn't know it's possible. 19:20:05 Note that if you're dealing with network / device input, and you want to also get a "stop the thread" event, you might consider using a pipe, which would give you an FD that you can wait for input on in parallel with your network / device FD. 19:20:18 Xach: is something up with the quicklisp server? 19:20:26 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:34 hitecnologys: I wrote as much not 15 minutes ago. 19:20:34 pkhuong: you wrap the thread on the handler, and if the error is thrown you make a cleanup. Why not? 19:20:37 jasom: you can still have shared resources between processes, and a kill -9 won't clean up everything always properly. 19:20:47 Xach: I keep getting "connection refused" errors when doing an update-all-dists (could be our network being flaky) 19:21:13 pjb but pkill ? 19:22:01 that's another problem. 19:22:20 ok 19:22:21 Denommus: Cleanups aren't atomic, so you could still screw things up that way. 19:22:21 pkhuong: this interrupt thread thing? I thought it's not real signaling but something like calling function from thread. 19:22:25 Denommus: what was executing before you forcibly threw an error? Maybe some error handling code or something else that should not be interrupted. 19:22:37 pjb: sure, but signal handling and cleanup is fairly well understood and the fact that state defaults to unshared means you won't have shared state unless you specifically asked for it 19:22:51 hm. Let me think 19:23:00 hitecnologys: that's correct. It's running the function in the thread, like unix signal(2) does it. 19:23:29 hitecnologys: functions can signal conditions. 19:23:34 hitecnologys: so you don't want to do much in those functions either. Sure you could destroy the thread, but it would be gross. 19:23:43 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:45 pjb: oh, I'm not really familiar with posix stuff. Probably need to learn it some day. 19:24:32 I'm thinking about a solution, but I think it would be more complex than simply checking a flag 19:24:45 pkhuong: yeah, I know this but it's still not signalling from another thread. That's what confused me. 19:26:05 Denommus: I have queue which other threads may use to send data to other threads, I'm currently using it to send some data to initialize listener and I may use it to send something like stop signal. 19:27:59 Does 5 seconds sounds like correct timeout or it's too small? 19:28:40 for a long lived server, it's probably too small. I'd put at least one minute. More depending on the number of threads. 19:28:52 -!- bitonic [~user@2.217.103.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:30:44 I'm writing game server, I don't think clients should hang a minute before they get kicked for timeout. 19:31:20 let's try 20 seconds then 19:32:14 connections remain open usualy a long time after client is gone, the net is stateless 19:32:34 I have the distinct feeling that I should be horrified right about now, but I lack details as to why. 19:32:57 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 19:33:00 why sould I have dead connections open? 19:33:12 kernel? 19:33:19 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:33:33 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:33:55 but why is it implemented like this? 19:34:00 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:00 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:27 difficult to answer, :) 19:34:39 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:46 hitecnologys: The other thing to bear in mind with a server is that if the server closes a socket, it goes into CLOSE_WAIT for a (rather long) period of time 19:34:53 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:34:57 hitecnologys: which can cause issues with reusing address/port combinations 19:35:35 ah, I'm already familiar with this issues 19:36:05 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-198-237-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:36:27 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:35 seems like you'd want to wait a while for the client to do the close before doing it yourself 19:36:42 (<-- not a server expert) 19:36:42 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:38:12 In general, it is best to have a typical close happen by a protocol-level close message being sent, followed by the client initiating the TCP close. 19:38:46 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 19:39:12 And TCP close should not be used to signal a close 19:39:16 Hm, protocol says I should wait for 1200 ticks (60 seconds). 19:40:04 alternatively you can use UDP for your protocol and put whatever semantics you want on opening/closing connections 19:40:09 bitonic [~user@97e10bb8.skybroadband.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:11 AeroNotix [~xeno@abny91.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:41:25 jasom: UDP is not a solution, it doesn't gurantee that packets would be delivered so I need to implement TCP over UDP to check if close packed was delivered. 19:41:32 UDP is stateless inside the kernel, so all state becomes explicit in your application. The downside is you need to handle packet loss and congestion 19:41:50 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 19:41:53 plus what about firewalls? 19:41:54 hitecnologys: ony if your protocol requires 100% of the packets to go through in order to work 19:42:53 hitecnologys: many games use UDP and just ignore dropped packets; the protocol sends enough information in each packet for it to do something meaningful 19:43:18 jasom: protocol requeres to send special keep alive packets so it may be sad if client just don't get one to respond and then got kicked by server 19:43:30 s/requeres/reqires 19:43:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:44:00 If you've ever seen FPS games where you suddenly jump from one place to another, that's because some of your movement actions got dropped going to the server, and then your client just got informed of that 19:44:15 hitecnologys: er if you're dropping that many packets you probably need to be 19:44:26 if you're kicking on one dropped packet you're probably not doing it right 19:45:01 maybe, but I don't think need UDP anyway. 19:45:02 and it's really not that hard to add an index field and requery state as necessary, and UDP is nice because then you can do it out of order 19:45:12 -!- bitonic [~user@97e10bb8.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:45:25 generally speaking what shows up as packet loss on UDP will show up as jitter on TCP, and jitter can be worse than packet loss for some twitch games 19:45:27 jasom: yep, I know wny this happens 19:45:42 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:49 and you can even only requery critical missed packets 19:46:17 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:23 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:33 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 19:47:12 example: you drop 1 packet; TCP will have to resend that packet and *all* packets sent since that one was sent; even if the data doesn't matter anymore (since it's in the past) 19:47:16 even if I want to use UDP, I can't because then I need to change client and I can't do that 19:47:35 oh, you didn't design the protocol? 19:47:40 nope 19:47:53 heh then yeah 19:47:55 http://mc.kev009.com/Protocol I'm following this one 19:48:01 well then you can ignore the last few minutes of discussion, which was all about protocol design 19:48:26 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.250.174] has joined #lisp 19:48:40 jasom: doesn't sequence-number reassembly take care of everything except the one dropped packet? 19:49:05 if if designed my own protcol I'd be using UDP for sure 19:49:32 s/^if// 19:49:46 s/if if/if I/ 19:49:49 fortitude: you ack for the highest sequence that you've received so far; there may be many packets inflight; if you don't get an ack for sequence number N, you need to retransmit everything 19:49:59 ah, yep 19:50:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:22 jasom: ah, I was assuming one dropped packet out of the middle, with the rest acked 19:50:23 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-97.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:50:34 fortitude: you can't ack later packets 19:50:39 hitecnologys, that mean you have a lisp api for this protocol? 19:50:39 fortitude: until you've acked for the middle one 19:51:09 rszeno: I'm implementing lisp api, I don't have one 19:51:17 mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:25 hitecnologys: may I humbly suggest using non-blocking sockets with poll? You can do all your socket IO in a single thread then 19:51:46 mikecsh [~mikecsh@82.112.141.119] has joined #lisp 19:52:02 -!- yati [~yati@116.203.170.118] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:13 jasom: I need to simulate game process and process user commands in console so I definitely need threads 19:52:44 right, but your io can be in one thread an processing in separate thread(s) 19:53:22 3 threads isn't a lot, I don't think it may save much resources 19:53:30 jasom: looks like there's a selective ack scheme that will do it; is it not commonly available? 19:54:13 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: EvW] 19:54:21 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:35 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:54:35 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:35 some day it may become useful but not now 19:54:49 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:55:23 hitecnologys: I avoid threads due to programmer headspace resource constraints, not CPU constraints 19:56:03 fortitude: wikipedia says SACK usage is now widespread, so I guess my info is out-of-date (last time I did any really low-level network stuff was ~2000) 19:56:26 jasom: yeah, that's true, but now I have only 1 because I haven't implemented another 2 yet =P 19:56:52 nha [~prefect@koln-5d8155cc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:10 0 threads => no bugs, 1 thread => some bugs, more than 1 thread => many bugs, some of which will never reproduce 19:58:44 oudeis_ [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:59:11 jasom: there's various SACKs. which one? 19:59:19 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.250.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:25 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:32 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:59:40 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:01 jasom: parallelism should be like memory management: automatic 20:00:08 otherwise bugs 20:00:16 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:16 jasom: sure, maybe I'll change my code to use non-blockning sockets but now I have lots of diffeent things to do, 90% of them doesn't connected with threading at all 20:00:45 pjb: the wiki article is referring to RFC 2018 20:02:18 I see. In a way, windows did the same, but with O(n) acks. 20:15:49 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:33 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@209.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:17:02 josemanuel [~josemanue@229.231.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:17:10 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-47-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:27 -!- mskou72 [~mskou72@2-108-36-155-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:18:47 is any implementation for push server in lisp? except something in rosseta google give a lot bs 20:18:59 hiato [~hiato@41-133-149-15.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:19:00 rszeno: What sort of "push server"? 20:20:27 one minute to find an example 20:20:46 No, no... What are you actually trying to accomplish? 20:20:52 or better, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_technology 20:21:43 Hrm. 20:21:48 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou200.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:21:56 I use something similar for my browser based game 20:21:59 nothing like this, :) i was thinking that are used in games in last time and from this to the question 20:22:16 yes, :) 20:22:17 by using socket.io as a link between websocket enabled browsers and my lisp running a usocket 20:22:30 I don't know about most of that, but talking to AC2DM was fairly easy, talking to GCM should be straightforward (I haven't actually implemented that yet), talking to APNs is dreadful... 20:22:56 That's all mobile push, though. 20:23:03 -!- loke [~user@c-89c9e555.019-163-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:26 Oh, and crackberry push looked to be badly underdocumented, and I'm rather glad that I ended up not having to implement it... yet. 20:23:44 fortitude: quicklisp server is hosted by amazon on s3 20:23:53 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou200.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:01 fortitude: with edge caching on a CDN...should be pretty fast & reliable in most places in the world 20:24:09 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou200.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:24:16 do you have a proxy? 20:24:23 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abny91.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:20 rgc [~user@17.Red-83-37-103.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:45 jewel [~jewel@105-236-245-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:25:58 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:14 Is there an escape sequence to have a newline in a string without using format? Something like (print "Here\\\n break")? 20:26:30 There's none, because you don't need them. 20:26:33 Xach: no, but our network is notoriously flaky here 20:26:34 Just write: (print "Here 20:26:35 or is format or a call to terpri (or #\Newline) the only option 20:26:36 break") 20:26:37 use cl-interpol 20:27:17 or http://paste.lisp.org/display/137262 20:27:30 My use case is having a string like (setf my-string "one,two,three") and I want to run a cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all on it and make each , occurence a ,\n 20:27:44 that is a super sipmle example thoug 20:27:45 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:27:48 nyef_: you finished the APN code ? 20:27:49 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:30:11 fe[nl]ix: No, nor have I had a successful test report from trying to send just a single notification. 20:30:56 People keep getting pulled off and put on that project for some reason. /-: 20:32:37 Xach: turned out to 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