00:00:41 (block foo (lambda () (return-from foo)) <-- foo the binding of foo still exists, it's just that the block had dynamic extent so can't be used anymore 00:01:10 (block foo (funcall (block foo (lambda () (return-from foo)))) <-- that will fail for this reason 00:03:03 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:05:08 Of course you can get something similar to dynamic extent for functions with unwind-protect and (setf symbol-function) 00:05:49 but that can't shadow FLET/LABELS 00:06:50 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.155.239] has joined #lisp 00:09:05 it's easier to just (defun my-function (...args...) (apply *whatever* ...args...)) and then bind that 00:09:44 yes 00:13:47 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 00:15:23 yano [yano@freenode/staff/yano] has joined #lisp 00:15:26 kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 00:16:28 I want to take back everything bad I have said about the complexity of the lisp specification and how hard it makes to implement an interpreter; everything I said is true for a compiler or an interpreter that cares about performance, but a naive intepreter is so far looking to not be too terrible 00:17:07 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:17:37 Have you gotten up to pathnames yet? :) 00:18:00 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 00:18:11 Zhivago: I'm dealing with an environment that has no filesystem, so that part's super easy! 00:18:44 One of my favourite bits is how bignum is a type. 00:19:12 it's a trivial one though 00:19:16 (and integer (not fixnum)) 00:21:36 so (or fixnum bignum) makes up all integers, which is intuitive 00:22:41 I will deviate from the specification in one place though. (vector nil) will not be a string 00:23:14 I'd personally get rid of characters, but that would probably break a lot of things. 00:23:35 what would you replace them with? 00:23:43 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has joined #lisp 00:24:54 Strings. 00:25:06 you'd go the python route? 00:25:43 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@140.186.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 00:26:06 -!- kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: Dammit, ERC messed up the order of my buffers.] 00:26:07 That seems a bit silly; you can do to a string containing a single code-point anything you can do to a character 00:26:42 But not the converse ... 00:27:03 Which is why it's silly to have characters -- they're like brain-damaged strings. 00:27:06 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 00:27:13 they're like fast brain-damaged strings 00:27:28 There's no reason for them to be faster than immutable strings. 00:27:41 lisp strings are mutable and there is no way to declare a string immutable 00:27:48 jasomL what are you targeting your implementation at? 00:27:51 Yes. That's another problem. :) 00:28:00 jangle: parenscript 00:28:09 Just one place where CL is showing its age. 00:28:28 in #lispcafe I proposed something to allow declaring strings immutable 00:28:49 Zhivago: well you can build immutable strings on top of mutable strings, but not vice-versa 00:29:45 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 00:30:10 There are good reasons not to want mutable strings -- they don't help with text processing and they make many things more expensive. 00:30:19 also immutable strings are still slower than characters. Characters can be unboxed compared with a single integer comparison; comparison on strings can only be done that way if you enforce uniqueness (which then imposes overhead on creation) 00:30:24 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:59 Not necessarily -- you could implement single code-point strings as characters are now. 00:31:40 Much like fixnum vs bignum. 00:32:25 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:32:51 jangle: I suppose if I want to run on node, that would be an environment with a file-system so then I can worry about pathnames 00:33:16 fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-166.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 00:42:10 Reku [~Reku@108-207-8-186.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:21 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:47:53 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 00:50:57 -!- vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:52:25 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[~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:05 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:25:05 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:26:30 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:11 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 03:32:45 beans222 [~chatzilla@c-76-16-242-35.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:59 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 03:33:54 anyone know why an FFI function in CLISP would say "function is no-op" and do nothing (other than it just said it did nothing)? 03:34:14 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-166.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:34:37 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 03:34:57 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:59 Good morning. 03:35:13 -!- zbigniew [~zb@173.230.137.156] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:35:57 Good night (10:35 PM here). 03:36:23 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@ubuntu/member/stokachu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:38:16 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:39:58 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-115-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:42:40 chord [322f5788@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.87.136] has joined #lisp 03:42:43 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:53 -!- chord [322f5788@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.87.136] has left #lisp 03:43:04 stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:14 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:42 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 03:45:30 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 03:45:44 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[~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:48:59 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-74-67-208-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:49:40 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:11 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 04:55:02 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.84.159] has joined #lisp 04:57:36 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:57:59 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 05:03:01 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:03:23 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 05:08:01 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 05:09:09 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:09:37 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:47 quackv5 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 05:14:45 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.102.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:40 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:42 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:25:43 hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.93.55] has joined #lisp 05:26:27 Oi Does anyone know if I can set a search path libraries (like libpng, not lisp libraries) in quicklisp? I'm trying to load cl-png board it says unable to load/image not found although I have it installed in my system. 05:27:14 you mean cffi? 05:27:30 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 05:28:45 I'm trying to use cl-png, but yeah the error is signaled by cffi. 05:29:02 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.179] has joined #lisp 05:29:14 (all I know is that cffi is a portability layer for the foreign function interface) 05:31:53 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:32:13 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 05:37:18 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-110-168-19-61.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 05:37:43 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-19-61.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 05:37:53 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-19-61.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 05:38:16 fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-110-168-19-61.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 05:43:08 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:56 poi519 [~danil@91.199.35.1] has joined #lisp 05:47:29 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-110-168-19-61.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 05:47:32 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-19-61.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 05:49:19 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 05:57:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:01:04 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:01:17 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: l'unica verità.. è la morte stessa!] 06:02:58 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:15 PuercoPop: What OS and what Lisp Impl? for Linux and MacOSX, I believe it just calls dlopen() with most Lisp impls 06:04:34 I'm on MacOSX using sbcl 06:04:50 And, where do you have libpng installed? 06:05:00 yeah, it does that 06:05:16 dlopen(libpng12.dylib, 10): image not found. 06:05:54 so is there a way to specify path (although I've never seen a .dylib, that is probably generated from cffi?) 06:06:37 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:06:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:07:05 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:16 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:07:55 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-217-166-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:08:11 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-115-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:09:11 I've found it but it is in a non standard path, well I supposed I check cffi's documentation 06:09:28 nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.205.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 06:09:58 if OSX supports the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variables (other BSDs do) that'd also be a method to give alternate search paths than in-object RPATHs 06:10:08 s/variables/variable/ 06:11:08 It has some other variable DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH or something but when I upgraded, all of my man-pages disappeared and I haven't gotten around to installing them again so I can't tell you exactly right now... 06:11:23 phadthai: it does but if I put libpng12 in my path it is going to conflict with libpng15 which is used by most software and this abi changes. I'm looking to set the build variables 06:12:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:12:47 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:13:15 fandikurnia01 [~fandikurn@118.96.56.123] has joined #lisp 06:14:46 pnpuff [~ff@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 06:15:28 Why list-consing recursion is a special case of augmenttaion recursion and conversely augmentation recursion isn't a special case of list consing recursion? ...I think cons is a better example of "augmentation function" rather than + ("augmentation operator"). 06:18:06 redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has joined #lisp 06:19:18 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:21:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c3e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:22:58 -!- pnpuff [~ff@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:26:25 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:26:25 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c3e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:05 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.83.111] has joined #lisp 06:28:37 -!- ryankarason is now known as C}{ 06:33:21 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:22 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 06:36:31 teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.133] has joined #lisp 06:37:42 sid_cypher [sid@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #lisp 06:37:57 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:38:03 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:39:42 hello everyone 06:39:59 first time here, any activity? 06:40:35 i suppose not if you are first time here, :) 06:40:37 quite nice to see a SHODAN in a channel for a historically AI-aligned lang 06:41:54 going through the Land of Lisp book now, finished google's lisp-koans yesterdayish 06:43:42 anyone used heroku-cl-example on github for a week-or-longer project? 06:45:06 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:45:52 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:13 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:10 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 06:49:55 Hi sid_cypher 06:50:00 Welcome to #lisp 06:50:39 #lisp is usually quite active, but not at this time of day 06:50:57 'early' morning in Europe and night in the US 06:51:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:52:21 re heroku: unfortunately no 06:55:28 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.107.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:13 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:59:35 kami: thanks. i'm in europe, germany) 07:02:11 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:19 regarding heroku - they only offer one incoming port on a dyno, and the webserver thread listens on it. i was thinking SWANK... 07:04:57 i wonder if there are any http-tunneling libs in lisp i could maybe use 07:06:48 iolib ? 07:07:00 at first i wanted to port httptunnel from nocrew.org, but it was lots of work 07:07:10 zRecursive: thanks, googling 07:07:43 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:09:58 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:10:27 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:12:19 zRecursive: found iolib on github, there's no http code at all except a teeny-tiny test case. thanks anyway 07:12:52 maybe i could try vacietis on the httptunnel's sources 07:13:57 all for an ability to get a SLIME connection through to the heroku dyno'ed process 07:14:47 oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.174.210] has joined #lisp 07:17:52 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:18:24 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:01 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.198.60] has left #lisp 07:22:16 In SBCL, is there a way to avoid this non-portable result of: '`(do () () ,x) 07:23:00 sorry, of (pprint *) 07:23:26 It prints as the following, and sorry in advance for not using lisppaste: 07:23:28 `(DO (SB-IMPL::BACKQ-COMMA ()) (SB-IMPL::BACKQ-COMMA NIL) ,X) 07:24:48 or is that a bug? 07:26:11 maybe you could do something moderately terrible with *print-pprint-dispatch* if it's not a bug 07:26:19 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:28:33 eugh 07:30:26 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:28 though i would guess it's a bug about sb-pretty::pprint-do not respecting backq-comma unprinting ('`(o () () ,x) prints ok) 07:31:35 er, pprinting 07:32:57 i sure as hell ain't gonna understand that format string in pprint-do, though 07:33:44 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:33:54 Bike: Can you paste it? :D 07:35:36 ~:<~@{~:<~^~W~^ ~@_~:I~W~@{ ~_~W~}~:>~^~:@_~}~:> 07:35:48 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:35:50 Gmind [~TheTrung@123.16.225.3] has joined #lisp 07:36:13 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:36:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.84.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:36:32 that's one awesome string 07:36:39 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:34 pprinting forms with backquoting seems rather harrowing anyway, like what are you supposed to do with `(do ,@x ,b) 07:38:22 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-awphirnpnnrkkczv] has joined #lisp 07:38:34 Bike: I need it as a way of serializing code portably, I guess 07:38:40 and I don't want to do stuff like code walking 07:38:48 and I don't want to use strings 07:39:24 I don't mind if internally it uses the sb-impl stuff, but it would be nice if it pretty printed with the right symbols 07:39:32 yeah, i understand, i'm just saying it's even crazier than usual pprinting 07:41:26 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:41:40 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:41:40 I'm trying to make a simple dictionary-query thing, but I'm not able to get the JSON data with drakma:http-request, but I'm able to get it with curl. I'm getting some kind of js function call instead of the JSON data: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137608 07:41:41 isn't there a word for the backquote and comma, like for (quote stuff) 07:42:27 Bike: oooh, I misunderstood 07:42:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43:45 aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 07:45:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.24] has joined #lisp 07:45:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.24] has quit [Changing host] 07:45:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:46:43 -!- fandikurnia01 [~fandikurn@118.96.56.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:47:42 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00357f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-201-64.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:51:37 -!- Gmind [~TheTrung@123.16.225.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:55:03 -!- popper66 [~popper66@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:57:24 samebchase: the first line looks like json to me "{\"query\":\"foo\",\"sourceLanguage\":\"en\",\"targetLanguage\":\"en\"}" 07:58:19 oh, the real thing is big 07:58:50 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.83.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:00:22 I need that js function to be called to get the data. I don't understand how curl is able to "run" that function when drakma cannot. I mean, does curl have a js interpreter? 08:00:51 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:01:20 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 08:01:44 popper66 [~popper66@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:09 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:02:23 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:02:54 Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 08:05:53 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:06:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:26 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 08:08:38 knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:09:32 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:13:50 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 08:13:53 Is possible to write a recursive relative complement function in tail-recursive form? 08:14:13 Odyessus_ [~odyessus@089144192152.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:14 -!- Odyessus_ [~odyessus@089144192152.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:14:32 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.32] has joined #lisp 08:15:15 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-4-117.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:16:23 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:18:10 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.173.138] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:18:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:20:33 Quadrescence: hyperspec says "the exact manner in which the Lisp reader will parse an expression involving the backquote reader macro is not specified" 08:20:54 so you can't code around the bug with no changes i guess 08:21:00 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:25 but you could use (quote ) instead, these are cool :) 08:21:40 sid_cypher: that says nothing about pretty printing 08:21:54 of course you can parse `x as (blabloo-haha x) if you want 08:22:35 i've searched for pprinter commands that turn off quoting, couldn't find 08:22:36 and, no I can't use QUOTE unless I want to re-work all of my macros to be a hodgepodge of LIST*, APPEND, and LISTs 08:22:45 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 08:23:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:40 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:25:08 Is a subset of S-recursive functions recursive? 08:25:17 Quadrescence: do you have to pprint pure portable lisp code with pprint? 08:25:25 yes i do 08:25:52 tough luck with backquote, i guess. gotta fix the bug 08:27:51 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00357f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:31:00 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-12-198.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:37:11 Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-30-171.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:41:08 ehu [~ehu@static-42-194-112-80.thenetworkfactory.nl] has joined #lisp 08:42:31 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.205.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:41 dfox [~dfox@178.248.252.207] has joined #lisp 08:45:02 Guest87109 [~life@118.81.3.243] has joined #lisp 08:45:38 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 08:48:37 -!- Guest87109 is now known as m0use 08:54:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:58:23 I have no doubts with a conditional expression which form is: (p -> q, T nil) <=> (if p q nil) <=> (if p q), but I have some doubts with this conditional expression: (p -> T, T-> q) : how can I define an S-expression representing this conditional form? thanks 08:59:02 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 08:59:43 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:00:43 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-kbpfcyibqjrpgbhn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:01:10 s/(p -> q, T nil)/(p -> q, t -> nil)/ 09:01:34 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-zojxhvssgixsjzey] has joined #lisp 09:02:49 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:56 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:04:37 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:04:41 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 09:06:20 ok, maybe the conditional expression associated with the or logical connective in http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/recursive/node2.html (under "d. Recursive Funcion Definitions") is wrong... 09:06:49 -!- Reku [~Reku@108-207-8-186.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reku] 09:07:13 -!- popper66 [~popper66@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:25 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.174.210] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:20:18 jasom: symbols are essentially immutable strings. 09:20:22 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 09:21:09 Compare (princ '"Hello") (princ '|Hello|) 09:21:21 immutable strings serving as pointers? ) 09:23:14 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-217-166-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 09:23:49 sid_cypher: ? 09:24:03 Yes, symbols can be used as "pointers", with their function and value slots. 09:24:08 argyi [~user@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 09:26:48 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 09:27:49 i see it as a half-joke, but when i translate C code to lisp i do use symbols as pointers. just comparing performance occasionally 09:28:04 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:28:33 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:28:37 sid_cypher: have a look at my & and deref macros (You could shadow * and use it for deref ;-)). 09:28:44 -!- s00pcan_ [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:28:51 sid_cypher: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#C-like-pointers-in-Lisp 09:28:54 popper66 [~popper66@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:10 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 09:30:36 pjb: oh thanks. that's a lot of material 09:31:01 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:32:57 s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:27 sid_cypher: also, CL-LOCATIVES 09:34:01 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.250.9] has joined #lisp 09:34:31 sid_cypher: the advantage of using closures, is that you can have references to random places: you can refer a slot in an array or a structure. With symbols, you can only refer to some other special variable. 09:35:31 -!- hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.93.55] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:36:51 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:37:33 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:57 pjb: thanks for advice, i just never translated anything bigger than 30-40 lines, so no problems came up. closures are cool. 09:40:07 hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.93.55] has joined #lisp 09:40:48 sid_cypher: well, of course, translating just an algorithm you can do a better job than just transliterating. It's much better to redesign the algorithms in lisp terms (or in functional style) than just transcribing the C code to lisp. 09:40:58 You can do that, after all, we have tagbody :-) 09:41:16 Quadrescence: thanks for locatives reference, looks great 09:41:57 pjb: i know, right? :) i always have to cringe at some of the structures 09:42:37 bitonic [~user@97e10035.skybroadband.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:49 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:47:14 what does it means "universal" in "universal function evalquote"? I just read something about universal functions and utm theorem (but still confused ideas), can someone explain me in simple terms what universal function means or better point me to some reading material? 09:47:14 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 09:50:13 It's a function that can evaluate all the (evaluable) functions. 09:50:23 Like Universal Turing Machines. 09:50:51 is a total computable function? 09:51:22 Well, it may not terminate if the function you give it to evaluate doesn't terminate. 09:51:27 total like always terminates? nope 09:51:57 A Turing Machine has a fixed program (DFA). A Universal Turing Machine, being a Turing Machine has a fixed program too. But this is an interpreter for any program you can feed it on its tape. So it can run any program, just changing the data. 09:52:34 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 09:52:42 Like, a iPad is a turing machine (can only run fixed programs it gets from the AppleStore). A Macintosh is a universal turing machine (can run any program you write or somebody else writes and you download to your mac). 09:56:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-30-171.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:58:46 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by beer] 10:00:42 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:01:35 redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has joined #lisp 10:02:46 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 10:03:00 ehu` [~ehu@31.137.118.52] has joined #lisp 10:04:07 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:38 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:29 -!- ehu [~ehu@static-42-194-112-80.thenetworkfactory.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:07:57 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.56.180] has joined #lisp 10:11:52 cl-locatives is quite awesome. but the names are long - is there a better alternative to following? 10:11:55 (setf (symbol-function '&) #'cl-locatives:dereference) 10:12:06 -!- knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:24 knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:50 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.184.88.190] has joined #lisp 10:14:26 -!- argyi [~user@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:59 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.56.180] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:20:31 -!- kami` is now known as kami 10:23:37 pjb: thanks a lot, so (if I understand well) I can feed an iPad with a partial recursive function, while a Machintosh with a total recursive function... 10:26:05 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:16 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:30:38 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:23 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-217-166-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:57 -!- hoyang [~hoyang@60.168.93.55] has quit [Quit: ] 10:33:08 pnpuff: the concept of partial/total function is orthogonal to the concept of universal turing machine, or universal evaluator functions. 10:33:51 -!- m0use [~life@118.81.3.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:35:32 (defmacro & (place) (let ((new-value (gensym)) (setp (gensym))) `(lambda (&optional (,new-value nil ,setp) (if ,setp (setf ,place ,new-value) ,place))))) (defun  (place) (funcall place)) (defun (setf ) (new-value place) (funcall place new-value)) 10:35:55 pjb: lemme indent that :) 10:35:57 (let* ((x 42) (y (& x))) (setf ( y) (1+ (* y))) x) 10:36:48 There's a misplaced parentheses that should go after the &optional parameter specification. 10:37:00 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.84.159] has joined #lisp 10:37:20 nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.205.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 10:38:36 And I mistyped a 5-branch star, it should be: (let* ((x 42) (y (& x))) (setf ( y) (1+ ( y))) x) 10:38:47 --> 43 ;-) 10:39:07 why 43? 10:39:09 Now, of course, using unicode characters that look like ascii characters may not be such a good idea. 10:39:33 had to convert, yeah) 10:39:59 Because (setf ( y) (1+ ( y))) expands basically to (funcall (lambda (new-value) (setf x new-value)) (1+ x)) 10:40:47 ooooh you did a defun small-star 10:40:54 Perhaps we could use ( y) to dereference y. 10:41:19 and ( x) to reference it. 10:41:31 thats why slime said redefining-locked-eat-debuggers-s*** 10:41:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:42:55 -!- ehu` [~ehu@31.137.118.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:15 pjb: wait, i was just talking about an alias for cl-locatives function 10:43:35 Is cl-locative defined otherwise? 10:43:36 you did an alternative implementation it looks like 10:43:56 Well, it's easier to download it from the brain than to google for it :-) 10:44:21 i have the code open, its a struct with slots 10:45:11 and a macro gets environment and takes reader/writer from there 10:45:11 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46:30 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:48:15 pjb: do you, by any chance, write in APL occasionally? :) 10:48:54 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:14 No. I have a few notions of APL, but I never had the occasion to write more than the equivalent of "hello world" in APL. 10:49:41 my us-international with AltGr doesn't have all those greek and star things.. then again, opening kcharselect or smth is a solution 10:50:38 http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/?a=viewblob&p=public/rc&h=9b690359c6d7886e7ac3885edb52df5f2d28a483&hb=ee28d57084ca6b9bc4ab24ae33ab283cb8b790c0&f=xmodmap-daskeyboard-3-evdev 10:50:58 The solution is to write your own xmodmap. 10:51:22 aah, das keyboard... blank keys? 10:51:42 Yep :-) 10:51:49 Better blank than confusing. 10:51:51 i had to sandpaper and wet polish mine on the netbook 10:52:14 (it came with a german layout, bad for coding) 10:52:24 and shells 10:52:58 have you tried not looking at it? 10:53:03 seems like less work 10:53:44 i'm doing the "not-looking" thing right now, because not my pc 10:53:52 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 10:54:15 stassats: but haven't you ever wanted a nice clean blank keyboard? 10:54:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:55:01 it'll be full of breadcrumbs soon anyway 10:56:19 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:58:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00357f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:32 Just placing the keyboard upside down and shaking it and tapping on it, is enough to get rid of the breadcrumbs, if they're only breadcrumbs :-) Otherwise cyberclean works wonderfully. 11:01:54 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 11:02:14 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cpc2-cove3-0-0-cust17.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:38 jewel [~jewel@41.160.61.154] has joined #lisp 11:10:21 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:04 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:12:05 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Changing host] 11:12:05 talas [~talas@unaffiliated/talas] has joined #lisp 11:14:06 talas_ [~talas@95.211.188.53] has joined #lisp 11:16:28 -!- talas_ [~talas@95.211.188.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:32 -!- talas [~talas@unaffiliated/talas] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:19:22 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboe49.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:20:42 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:31 aqil [~aqil@109.237.123.51] has joined #lisp 11:25:31 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:27:57 -!- aqil [~aqil@109.237.123.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:29:25 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 11:31:23 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 11:31:23 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 11:31:23 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:37:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:39:01 -!- Quadrescence [180405b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.4.5.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:45:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:44 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:08 aqil [~aqil@46.22.236.39] has joined #lisp 11:49:08 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:13 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:46 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.184.88.190] has left #lisp 11:53:14 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:34 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:02:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-115-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:05:32 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.205.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:39 Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-30-171.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:06:34 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 12:06:41 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-113-64.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:06:55 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:38 -!- poi519 [~danil@91.199.35.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:08:39 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:46 -!- Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:15:27 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:16:08 I once cleaned a keyboard in dishwasher - works pretty well for "classic" keyboards 12:16:11 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:16:20 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:28 AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@41.160.61.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:17:36 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:19:20 p_l: yes, I did that too. but cyberclean is more fun. :-) 12:26:07 -!- knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:27:44 knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:07 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:58 -!- knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:21 knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:33 Has anyone already found a characteristic function for the recursive set of Church numerals? Is there an example somewere? 12:38:39 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-145-197.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:38:41 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:08 have you managed to learn lisp already? 12:39:45 stassats: I'm trying to learn... (now I'm reading the chapter 8 about recursion...) 12:40:04 chapter 8 of what? 12:40:57 if something you're trying to learn from contains church numerals, then you're reading the wrong thing 12:41:08 Common Lisp: a gentle introduction to symbolic computation 12:43:56 and it asks you to find "characteristic function for the recursive set of Church numerals"? really? 12:44:19 no, but I'm curious... 12:44:38 I'm trying to understand recursion... 12:45:21 you won't understand it by finding "characteristic function for the recursive set of Church numerals", whatever that might be 12:46:02 ...but (I think) there is nothing better than start from primitive recursive functions tounderstand recursion better... 12:46:10 (maybe I'm wrong) 12:46:12 stop reading wikipedia and combining various mathematical terms you find there together 12:47:17 i just don't know what to say to this, good luck with your approach 12:47:39 but i'd like to remind you that it is off-topic, you'll have to find another channel for it 12:49:39 (and i now understand why you can't learn lisp for such a long time) 12:50:52 nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.205.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 12:53:55 *Xach* wonders why github user darabi is forking so many CL projects 12:54:02 stassats: but if I don't understand in deep, for example, what means functions composition, conditional expressions and recursion how can I do to learn lisp? 12:54:36 I don't want learn lisp mechanically... 12:54:43 pnpuff: You don't need to deeply understand the workings of gasoline-powered internal combustion engines to drive a car. 12:54:57 And it can be helpful to just drive if you want to get somewhere quickly. 12:55:41 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 12:56:07 youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:21 i'd rather say, you don't have to understand quantum mechanics to understand how the internal combustion engine works 12:57:18 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:58:33 Xach: some people use github for deployment 12:59:11 stassats: but I don't like this approach, because of I have no hurry to get somewhere quickly 12:59:36 you'll just got nowhere 12:59:43 and waste time of people on #lisp in the process 13:00:03 so far, you're doing that quite successfully 13:01:03 :-( 13:01:40 ikki_ [~ikki@187.208.138.219] has joined #lisp 13:04:37 stassats: sincerely do you know the answer to my question? 13:04:57 your question is inappropriate for #lisp 13:05:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:20 if you wish to learn compatibility theory, find another venue 13:09:56 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:12:11 -!- dfox [~dfox@178.248.252.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:13:26 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 13:13:27 pnpuff: lambda calculus is untyped: there are no characteristic functions in general. 13:13:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:53 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:14 pnpuff: you need to build a typed lambda calculus or typed language to be able to compute characteristic functions on "random" data, "random" being limited to the typed data managed by your new language. 13:14:17 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:14:37 Of course, you can use Church numerals to type-tag other data, including Church numerals :-) 13:14:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-30-171.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:48 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:15:41 stassats: on a related note, (besides the writing common lisp requisite) do you think it is important to be comfoltable with different approaches to programming, for example using mapcar and higher order functions, to become proficient en CL? 13:16:31 PuercoPop: one picks up those things on the go 13:16:52 i don't really find higher order functions to be a "different approach to programming" 13:17:01 more like an ordinary approach 13:17:12 Xach: but it is much funnier to learn deeply the workings of string theory, of quantum mechanics, of nuclear physics, of chemistry, mechanics, electromagnetics, electricity, biology, etc, to understand in detail the workings of a car (and the road system along with its signaling and their social roles and uses). And then not being able to drive, just like Sheldon Cooper. 13:17:32 it's all those crooked languages that don't support them are using different approaches 13:18:28 Nobody every laught or made any cent from people who can just drive and not know the difference between Helium and Hydrogen, not counting not being able to chant the periodic table from Hydrogen to Laurendum, but Sheldon can do that. 13:19:15 Well, even in 1982, when I learned Fortran, I couldn't believe you couldn't write a recursive function in it. 13:20:07 The first language I learned in 1975 (LSE) and the following (BASIC, Pascal, assembler) all had recursion. 13:20:23 *PuercoPop* nods. So I shouldn't try to forcefully limit the use of loop to force me to use mapcar and friends until I'm comfortable with mapcar. 13:20:35 It's not until I started to learn "history" that I found languages and _computers_ who couldn't do recursion (natively). 13:20:47 PuercoPop: mapcar is really trivial 13:20:50 as apposed to loop 13:21:46 Imagine hardware without JSR. with at most a JUMP&LINK instruction, which stores the PC in a register or memory, and jump to the target. Up to you to save the register or memory on a stack you'd implement yourself. Just like they did in LISP in 1960 actually. 13:22:51 pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:23:00 By the way, the analytical engine didn't have a stack either. 13:23:04 yes pjb , you understand well what I mean. To say I don't like playing to minecraft if I'm not able to build a good interpreter (and since currently I'm not able I need to understand better Lisp)... 13:23:20 But my Ti57 had one :-) 13:23:30 -!- knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:24:37 pnpuff: it's actually quite some fun to take lambda calculus, and try to implement a lisp (let's say a scheme to begin, and then implement CL over that scheme), along with stuff like hardware, I/O, memory etc. In pure lambda calculus. 13:25:01 Of course, first you write a lambda calculus engine in lisp, to be able to test your formula. :-) 13:25:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:02 -!- aqil [~aqil@46.22.236.39] has quit [Quit:    ] 13:26:22 PuercoPop: (defun .mapcar (fun list) (when list (cons (funcall fun (car list)) (.mapcar fun (cdr list))))) 13:26:32 Of course, CL:MAPCAR is a little more complex. 13:27:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 13:27:51 Yes, there's actually a subset of CL that's implemented all with one-liners like that, and that's quite usable, covering 80% of the use cases of each CL feature. :-) 13:28:55 pjb: it is also quite hard. I've had a blast with the little schemer last week. Can't say I could answer although the questions though (like the apply Y compbinator to Y combinator). And some questions took us like 30 minutes to understand why did it fail. 13:29:50 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34:29 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-74-67-208-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:04 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:35:15 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.84.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:36:51 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:37:16 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:37:52 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:46:06 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:49:05 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:50:57 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:47 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:56:03 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:56:27 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:20 PuercoPop: yes, it's hard, that's why it's funny and you learn a lot doing it. 13:58:06 pjb: *nods* When I get back home I'm going to give it another go, I think the schemer books are fun but you don't get everything on one go. 13:58:20 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-74-67-208-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:59:25 -!- ikki_ [~ikki@187.208.138.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:06:19 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:07:13 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:08:32 oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.231.61] has joined #lisp 14:09:44 Xach: re darabi and forking: I'm experimenting with git subtree. 14:10:27 Trying to find out how feasible it is to keep a large number of 3rd party repos as subtrees in one repo. 14:10:47 possibly creating patches on top of the external repos 14:12:33 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.205.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:57 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:37 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 14:16:18 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 14:16:50 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.231.61] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:16:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:32 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:00 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:18 redSnow1 [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has joined #lisp 14:23:22 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:14 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:30:16 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:50 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:32:45 -!- C}{ is now known as ryankarason 14:38:49 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-awphirnpnnrkkczv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:56 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 14:41:47 i have a curiosity. 14:41:59 i have found the (ext:shell) command 14:42:24 but i notice that the command prints the output. is there a way to "capture" these print statements ? 14:43:38 BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-240-122-247.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:45:38 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:34 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:47:00 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:51 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:50:33 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:50:34 ryankarason: not portably. 14:51:01 ext:shell is not portable in the first place, right? 14:51:35 H4ns: correct. in fact, i have no idea which implementation we're talking about here. 14:51:41 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:54 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:38 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:45 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 alright thanks. 15:01:25 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:01:32 well i am using CLISP, but i found (ext:run-shell-command) which allows to capture output to a stream :) 15:01:57 is there a standard for portable shell script calling ? 15:06:53 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.98] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:07:40 ryankarason: there is trivial-shell, can't say how good it is though 15:08:16 oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.231.61] has joined #lisp 15:08:37 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:57 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:15 or inferior-shell, as plugged in https://github.com/gwkkwg/trivial-shell/issues/6 15:10:23 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:10:34 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:02 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m5-240-122-247.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:02 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:22 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:01 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.250.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:07 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 15:13:17 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cpc2-cove3-0-0-cust17.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:03 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:23 BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-2-30-22.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:14:36 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 15:15:41 poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.98] has joined #lisp 15:16:01 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:27 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 15:18:04 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:05 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 15:19:02 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 -!- patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:23:36 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-201-64.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:13 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:27:32 H4ns: okay thanks. i will have to check those out 15:28:08 ikki_ [~ikki@187.208.138.219] has joined #lisp 15:29:30 what's the meaning of (defun pair (f a b) ((lambda (f) ((lambda (a b) (funcall f a b)) a b)) f)) ? ... if f is equal #'cons is trivial otherwise what does means? thanks 15:31:06 that's just (funcall f a b) 15:31:43 jewel [~jewel@105-236-245-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:35:05 it somewhat looks like the lambda-calculus encoding of a pair 15:35:12 -!- GuilOooo_ is now known as GuilOooo 15:35:22 -!- redSnow1 [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:54 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:25 Bike: I'm trying to implement an head function as: ((lambda (g) g ((lambda (a) ((lambda (b) a) 2)) 3)) #'cons) but is a rough tryial 15:40:05 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:09 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:20 -!- ikki_ is now known as ikki 15:41:42 I've defined g as cons function... but I have to define a cons function using only lambda calculus , really I want to define simple data types... 15:42:29 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.250.9] has joined #lisp 15:42:35 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:13 ((lambda (a b) (lambda (f) (funcall f a b))) 4 5) => #, then call that closure with (lambda (a b) a) and bam head 15:43:28 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:44:27 Bike: cureently I'm reading: http://krchowdhary.com/me-tfl/lambda-calculus-Chapter5.pdf 15:44:44 *currently 15:45:33 ok. i gave you a solution, though. 15:46:06 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:47:16 lambda calculus is often presented with evaluation rules different from lisp's, so you have to change things around a bit 15:48:08 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.250.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:44 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-97.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:51:11 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:59:34 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 15:59:34 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:48 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 16:09:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:24 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:29 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:15:21 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:21:12 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:21:45 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:55 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:23:30 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 16:24:14 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:26 how do you pronounce defun? deee - fun? 16:26:37 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-97.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:26:56 i double single f ,p 16:26:57 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:59 like def fun 16:27:04 duh fun 16:27:28 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:30 whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.45.48] has joined #lisp 16:27:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:28:01 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 16:28:34 pr_: like "define" but with a different ending 16:29:26 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-2-30-22.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:34 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:02 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:09 kami: what's subtree all about? 16:31:05 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 gotcha 16:31:45 minion: message for quadrescence: as a last ditch measure you can just blindly subst sb-impl::backq-cons with cons etc. It won't print with pretty backquotes but it'll be portable code, and those functions never appear anywhere else so a codewalker is overkill. 16:31:46 i don't agree - message for quadrescence as a last ditch measure me can just blindly subst sb implbackq cons with cons etc it won t print with pretty backquotes but it ll be portable code and those functions never appear anywhere else so a codewalker isn't overkill 16:31:50 ugh 16:32:03 minion: memo for quadrescence: as a last ditch measure you can just blindly subst sb-impl::backq-cons with cons etc. It won't print with pretty backquotes but it'll be portable code, and those functions never appear anywhere else so a codewalker is overkill. 16:32:04 Remembered. I'll tell quadrescence when he/she/it next speaks. 16:32:27 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:32:45 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 16:33:42 davazp [~user@165.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:17 -!- whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.45.48] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:15 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:18 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:37:07 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:39:42 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-32.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-201-64.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: abandoning elliott, wish me luck~] 16:46:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:47 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:47:56 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:48:40 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:13 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:42 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[exploring] 16:55:19 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:40 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:28 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-123-20.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:43 elh [~elawrence@rrcs-208-105-93-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 16:59:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:00:15 m0use [~life@118.81.3.243] has joined #lisp 17:01:05 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.12.216] has joined #lisp 17:01:17 -!- elh [~elawrence@rrcs-208-105-93-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:06:23 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:10:50 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:11:16 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:15:09 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:15:51 -!- zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:16:02 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 17:17:21 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:04 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 17:20:20 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:22:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.104] has joined #lisp 17:22:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.104] has quit [Changing host] 17:22:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:22:57 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:26:37 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:27:07 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:31:16 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:31:18 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-32.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:53 -!- davazp [~user@165.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32:03 elh [~elawrence@rrcs-208-105-93-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:54 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:38:15 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:02 antgreen_ [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 17:40:01 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:40:03 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:41:14 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.104] has joined #lisp 17:41:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.104] has quit [Changing host] 17:41:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:46:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:47:26 imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:48:23 redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has joined #lisp 17:51:39 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:34 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 17:54:19 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 17:54:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.104] has joined #lisp 17:54:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.104] has quit [Changing host] 17:54:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:57:36 Reku [~Reku@108-207-8-186.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:05 pierpa` [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:00:28 -!- pierpa [~user@host111-221-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:57 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:01:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:02:12 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 18:04:32 -!- poppingtonic [~poppingto@212.49.88.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:05:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:48 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 18:08:53 -!- imh is now known as imh_ 18:09:39 -!- imh_ is now known as imh 18:14:57 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:15:18 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:19:56 -!- elh [~elawrence@rrcs-208-105-93-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: elh] 18:20:32 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:21:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:24:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:26:52 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:27:13 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:39 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 18:32:49 ASau` [~user@p4FF969EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:22 Davidbrcz [~david@AToulouse-554-1-30-171.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:34:15 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:43 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:36:28 -!- m0use [~life@118.81.3.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:58 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EB0A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:37:52 Quadrescence [180405b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.4.5.176] has joined #lisp 18:41:11 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@37.142.231.61] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:44:25 robgssp [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:23 I'm trying to translate simply M-expressions to S-expressions, but now I have a doubt with this translation: assoc[B;((A . (M N)), (B. (CAR X)), (C . ((QUOTE M)), (C . (CDR X)))]. This is my tryial: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137613 but maybe something is wrong because I don't get (B . (CAR X)). Is there any suggestion? thanks 18:48:12 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:49:27 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:49:37 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@58.249.118.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:51:26 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:57:37 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:04:18 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 19:08:56 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:09:17 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:09:25 Hello everyone. 19:09:46 Is it safe to make timed thread by using sleep? 19:10:31 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:13:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:13:27 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:46 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:15:34 -!- Reku [~Reku@108-207-8-186.lightspeed.moblal.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reku] 19:16:14 paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.238] has joined #lisp 19:16:37 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:18 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:10 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:26:12 Ah, okay, I assume it's safe then. 19:27:23 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:38 sellout-: came across quid-pro-quo today. looks interesting. have you used it any project? 19:29:40 aqil [~aqil@91.191.200.242] has joined #lisp 19:30:06 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.240.1] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 19:31:25 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:39 -!- Quadrescence [180405b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.4.5.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:35:47 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:40 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:37:40 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:37:51 tfan [~tarik@bas2-montreal29-1177924872.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:39:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c3e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:58 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:41 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d856f2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:41:15 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:41:22 paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.237] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c3e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:58 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-123-20.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:42:44 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:42:53 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8548d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:08 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:43:19 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:52 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:27 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 19:45:12 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 19:47:32 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:50 can I force quicklisp to be reloaded in order to profile its performance? 19:49:11 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:23 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:49:26 can I force quicklisp to be reloaded in order to profile its performance? 19:51:34 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:52:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-252-90.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:57:06 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-152-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:57:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:06 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.111.96] has joined #lisp 20:00:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-245-37.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:02:36 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:42 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-170.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:41 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:06:49 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:15:51 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:16:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-229-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:12 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:19 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abnz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:19:32 -!- BBShortcut [~user@mar92-5-82-225-147-167.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:22:13 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboe49.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:23:28 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:10 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-fgwpiehaspybsbey] has joined #lisp 20:28:24 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-250-9.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:13 -!- aqil [~aqil@91.191.200.242] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:31:48 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 20:33:19 -!- bitonic [~user@97e10035.skybroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:09 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:37:21 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:42 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abnz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:38:59 AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:40:39 aqil [~aqil@91.191.200.242] has joined #lisp 20:40:45 -!- aqil [~aqil@91.191.200.242] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:52:14 I'm trying to debug a problem in my support of the FORMAT command in Common Lisp. It's the same FORMAT code that ECL uses. 20:52:19 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.12.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:44 I'd like to load the ECL FORMAT code into a separate package in ECL and then modify it to print intermediate results. 20:53:23 So I added the following to the start of the "format.lsp" file: 20:53:28 (make-package "FMT" :use '(:cl :ext :sys)) 20:53:28 (in-package :fmt) 20:54:09 When I load this local "format.lsp" file into ECL it throws up Binding stack overflow. 20:54:37 I should be able to do this, shouldn't I? 20:58:10 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8548d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:58:53 -!- tfan [~tarik@bas2-montreal29-1177924872.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:57 shwouchk [~user@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 20:59:14 Hello 20:59:35 I don't understand how this is possible, for a non-empty list: 20:59:53 (member (car *ids*) *ids*) : NIL 21:00:21 jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:03:23 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00357f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:03:33 shwouchk: member uses EQL by default. 21:03:39 nevermind, *ids* is nil actually 21:03:58 so indeed, it should not return nil for a non empty list. 21:04:26 maybe I'm doing something stupid then 21:05:26 Perhaps multiple threads modifying *ids* ? 21:05:29 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-fgwpiehaspybsbey] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:05:54 -!- rk[exploring] is now known as ryankaraosn 21:07:38 pjb: simpler than that - I've come back after a while (not that I knew CL that well to begin with), and didn't realize that defvar would not reset the value of a variable 21:08:57 pjb: There still isn't a simple and portable way to use threads, is there? 21:09:02 you're right, defparameter will but not defvar (a nice feature for interactive development) 21:09:50 phadthai: youre claiming that defvar not redefining is the nice feature or that defparameter is the nice feature? 21:10:16 shwouchk: theres bordeaux-threads. 21:10:32 defvar; say you a recompiling or reloading a block or file, there are values you would not like to reset 21:10:33 shwouchk: I guess by default you 'd use defparameter. 21:10:35 pjb: I'll look into that 21:10:37 defvar is for special cases. 21:10:59 phadthai, pjb: I see, cool 21:11:04 -!- ryankaraosn is now known as ryankarason 21:11:52 That is, if you're considering file based development. With image based development, defvar would be more logical, I think. 21:12:15 tfan [~tarik@bas2-montreal29-1177924872.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:12:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:13:47 pjb: interesting distinction. 21:16:25 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:34 nilsi [~nilsi@109.58.16.205.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:18:44 banannagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:53 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@c65-85.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:12 bitonic [~user@97e10035.skybroadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:23 I'm trying to make a function that would find all instances of a regular expression in a page, and save a list of unique ones. Instead of a list of unique instances, I get many repetitions. Could anyone please take a look at the code? (also welcome are comments about 'wrong style') http://paste.lisp.org/+2Y6N 21:20:38 another aspect I found tricky at first with interactive development had to do with symbols automatically imported at read-time, making '#: and find-symbol very useful (to avoid polluting packages with unwanted symbols and complicate matters when using multiple packages with shadowing etc)... say you use (apropos 'foo), FOO now exists in the current package even if it didn't, yet (apropos '#:foo) will avoid that (the defvar discussion reminded ... 21:20:45 ... me of this) 21:21:17 shwouchk: as I said, member use eql. 21:21:24 (eql "Hello" "Hello") --> NIL 21:21:36 pjb: aaaaah 21:21:46 I forgot that's how eql works 21:22:45 You could use a hash-table :test (function equal) if you had a lot of matches. 21:23:10 phadthai: cool, good to know! 21:23:44 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:08 phadthai: can you remind me what would (apropos :xxx) do in this case? also, where does find-symbol get into the picture? 21:25:13 :xxx will get imported in the keyword package if necessary, but at least that'll always remain the keyword package 21:26:29 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:26:46 pjb: good idea. I need a set really more than a list, anyway. Although I would kinda consider it as optimization (as it only has to parse a single page every few minutes, this is mostly to remind myself how to use cl). 21:27:09 phadthai: I see 21:30:06 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:31:25 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.84] has joined #lisp 21:31:26 ah and for find-symbol, similarily in code manipulating symbols it just allows to verify for symbol existance without implicit make-symbol or import 21:31:29 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 21:31:47 ah 21:31:49 cool 21:32:18 -!- imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:32:38 pjb: thanks, also. Is there a comment on how I setf ids to a new list every time, or is that the idiomatic way to do this? 21:33:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:15 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:37:19 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c3e4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:11 hey pub: are you having a good day in ()? Did you get my email a few days ago re: ijnformatimago.heap? It doesn't necessarily require any action from you but i just wanted to verify the email got through 21:38:20 sorry pjb: 21:39:35 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-229-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:38 danlentz: yes. It's interesting. 21:39:58 danlentz: Sorry I didn't answer earlier, but I'm quite busy those times during the week. 21:40:06 can't type worth a damn. I suppose that implies I'm "weakly typed" as they say 21:40:14 :-) 21:41:02 imh [~imh@108-90-41-180.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:09 use flyspell and become dynamically typed :d 21:42:11 i figure i probably spent (at least) as much time with that heap as any of the other user besides yourself so it was worth giving feedbagck 21:42:54 :-) 21:43:23 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:24 I'm wondering however, if for your use, it wouldn't be better to implement a good multithreaded GC. 21:43:32 its fun to watch it work 21:43:39 oh yes most def 21:44:16 actually Ive done a 180 on the GC issue 21:44:20 If you have time, you should fetch some recent papers about them, and implement a few parallel GC. 21:44:37 i've been working with MPS 21:45:08 its quite versatile 21:45:15 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:33 ejbs [~user@h-208-29.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 21:45:52 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:48 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:48 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8548d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:21 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:30 also robert strand is a veritable goldmine of knowledge on this (and much more) and I've had the pleasure of a few discussions with him about it 21:47:40 strandh 21:49:09 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-229-231.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:18 i believe he's also located in france actually 21:49:44 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.133.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:19 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:50:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:37 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-123-20.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 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