00:00:24 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:00:32 Works now, thanks Again Bike you've been really helpful once more. 00:01:40 -!- bitonic [~user@2.126.175.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:20 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:22 ... 00:05:36 I just transformed a script that took two days to run into a script that takes... 10 seconds 00:06:30 oh, I knew it. Something is wrong 00:12:16 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-220-154.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:27 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-220-154.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:39 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-220-154.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:51 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-247-95.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:12:53 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 00:13:06 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 00:13:08 ejbs: does it seem reasonable to get a warning that looks like this?:WARNING: These Swank interfaces are unimplemented: 00:13:09 (DISASSEMBLE-FRAME SLDB-BREAK-AT-START SLDB-BREAK-ON-RETURN) 00:13:34 shwouchk: Uhm, no... What implementation are you using? 00:13:46 sbcl 00:14:23 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:14:40 i usually get those warnings. 00:15:00 Bike: so you think it is normal then? 00:15:15 my setup might be bad and i haven't noticed, but i haven't run into issues. 00:15:17 and/or should not adversly affect me? 00:15:47 Bike: do you get a debugger dump every time you start slime? 00:15:55 uh, no. 00:16:01 :() 00:16:07 i just get some warning outputs on *inferior-lisp* 00:16:18 :( that is 00:18:22 Bike: shwouchk: Shouldn't that mean that you have an outdated swank install? 00:18:49 jerkbot1 [~jerkbot@pool-71-185-204-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:18 No, it's normal to get those messages every time. 00:19:32 zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.70.114] has joined #lisp 00:21:10 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:21:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:11 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:25:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:31 -!- jerkbot1 [~jerkbot@pool-71-185-204-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:10 jerkbot1 [~jerkbot@pool-71-185-204-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:47 -!- jerkbot1 [~jerkbot@pool-71-185-204-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:43 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:24 jerkbot1 [~jerkbot@pool-71-185-204-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:30 -!- quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:33 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:32:44 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:45 -!- jerkbot1 [~jerkbot@pool-71-185-204-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:29 jerkbot1 [~jerkbot@pool-71-185-204-145.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:57 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:38:34 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:38:40 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-156-206.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 00:40:57 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:13 ok, I DID improve the performance, now. Impressively 00:48:29 I'm leaving now, goodbye 00:48:33 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 00:52:08 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cpc2-cove3-0-0-cust17.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:52:15 drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:10 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:53:37 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-123-20.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:40 ejbs: Bike: thanks! I got it to work and now it is running nicely :) 00:54:58 tagbody [~rsmith@wikimedia/rsmith-wmf] has joined #lisp 00:54:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-154.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:55:35 Hey Xach, I was wondering if you have made a separate package for the quicklisp stuff, specifically the http stuff so it can be used by other libraries. 00:55:53 tagbody: nope. 00:55:59 tagbody: drakma does http. 00:56:05 tagbody: i think it's probably better to use drakma most of the time. 00:56:31 erg 00:57:22 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:59:02 If you want to use quicklisp's because it's small and bootstrappy, I recommend just ripping it out and using it as needed. 00:59:22 yes that was the main reason 01:00:18 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:31 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-154.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:35 what is with that new nick 01:00:43 $WORK 01:01:34 which I want to keep somewhat separate from (COMPLEMENT $WORK) 01:03:39 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 01:05:37 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:48 mum is the word 01:06:20 :)) 01:08:54 harish [~harish@119.234.187.169] has joined #lisp 01:10:39 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:16 Hm, I missed the joke. 01:12:51 No real joke. 01:14:22 Has anyone, in SBCL, ever exhausted the heap *during* garbage collection, and gotten thrown into the LDB? 01:15:16 ckoch786 [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:22 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:22 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.187.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:26:58 ASau` [~user@p4FF96A04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:28:14 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:33 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96A04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:14 tagbody: all the time. That's probably the most common way to exhaust the heap, definitely the most common way to get dumped to LDB because of heap exhaustion. 01:33:55 ah i see 01:34:29 Lisp: GCing 8 megabytes and constantly consing 01:35:29 copying GC are annoying that way. 01:42:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:34 -!- davazp [~user@254.Red-79-144-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:43:01 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:50 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:48:44 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:57 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:50:44 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:48 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-hmxdkoqoysqwwfqm] has joined #lisp 01:54:30 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 01:54:59 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-53-187.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:59:25 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:25 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:27 -!- ckoch786 [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:02:43 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:05:25 srsly? how much of a jerk do you have to be to DDoS github? 02:05:30 *dlowe* sighs. 02:06:17 that's been going on for a while too 02:06:28 about 20 minutes now 02:06:39 https://status.github.com/ 02:07:46 but git is distributed, no more SPoF ;) 02:08:11 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:09:02 Unfortunately, I was just about to clone a project. Otherwise I doubt I'd have noticed. 02:09:31 oh, well. I probably should be sleeping instead of hacking anyway 02:10:23 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[sigh] 02:15:44 drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:24 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-57-23.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:28 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-57-23.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:17:34 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:45 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-57-23.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-154.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:17:57 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:29:44 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-41.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:32:35 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-207-25.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:59 -!- skalawag [user@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3ad2] has left #lisp 02:34:27 Bike__ [~Glossina@67-5-210-104.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-57-23.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:34:43 -!- Bike__ is now known as Bike 02:37:07 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-207-25.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:39:02 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-210-104.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:19 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-104.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:39:22 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-210-104.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:39:37 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-104.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:44 I just spent about an hour looking for a bug, only to find out it's a result of a bad MAPCAN. Same as the common SORT bug. 02:39:52 *tagbody* decides to rename it MAPCANT. 02:40:26 modifying literal data? yeah, standard mappend would be nice 02:43:17 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:49:16 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.164.20] has joined #lisp 02:49:16 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.164.20] has quit [Changing host] 02:49:16 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:49:36 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:03 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:54:51 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:57 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-123-20.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:10:48 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-235-128.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:27 clhs mapcan 03:12:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 03:13:36 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:13:45 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:17:49 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.27.171] has joined #lisp 03:35:08 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:47 -!- setmeaway2 [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:41:55 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.70.114] has left #lisp 03:42:01 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:31 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-41.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 03:59:32 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:59:55 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 04:00:22 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 04:01:23 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:05:21 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:9557:6609:f5f5:2672] has joined #lisp 04:07:40 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:08:03 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:12:29 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:13:09 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 04:18:27 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:22 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:25:05 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:26:06 gmcastil [~user@70-59-29-55.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:01 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:32:34 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:36:09 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-41.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:41:37 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:45:04 If anyone has the time, could you explain to me how the :prompt-hook keyword parameter in the following defun is supposed to work? I think I know but it's a usage that I haven't seen before. (defun tpl (&key ((:prompt-hook *tpl-prompt-hook*) *tpl-prompt-hook*)) ...) 04:45:50 If I say (tpl :prompt-hook #'xxx) then does #'xxx gets bound to the special variable *tpl-prompt-hook*? 04:45:52 it's specified by :prompt-hook in a call, the value is called *tpl-prompt-hook* within the function, and the default value if no :prompt-hook is provided is the value of *tpl-prompt-hook* 04:45:56 yes 04:46:12 (assuming *tpl-prompt-hook* is special in scope of course) 04:46:44 Oh dear - I don't think I handle this case - I'll have to look into that. 04:46:58 *tpl-prompt-hook* is special in this case. 04:47:11 which case don't you handle? the variable name being different from the keyword? 04:47:40 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:48:01 I handle lexical variables being bound with this &key form but I don't think I handle special variables - I'll do a quick test and check. 04:48:12 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:49:27 zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.70.114] has joined #lisp 04:50:09 Hmm, (defvar *a* 1) (defun xxx (&key ((:jjj *a*)) (print *a*)) (xxx :jjj 10) ---> 10 04:50:12 So that's ok. 04:50:36 But I'm worried that I might be binding it to a lexical variable with the name *a* 04:51:04 Hold on - I know how to test that. 04:53:56 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-41.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 04:54:20 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.218] has joined #lisp 04:54:24 (defun yyy () (print (list "in yyy *a* = " *a*))) (defun xxx (&key ((:jjj *a*))) (yyy)) (xxx :jjj 999) ---> ("in yyy *a* = " 999 ) 04:54:42 So it looks like everything is ok. Sorry to bother everyone. 04:55:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.79.25] has joined #lisp 04:55:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.79.25] has quit [Changing host] 04:55:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:55:33 I got through compiling one of the very last ECL source files for the top-level loop and I'm experiencing a bug that I thought might be due to not handling that lambda list case properly. 04:56:01 It must be something else. 04:57:26 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:07 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 05:10:37 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-41.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 05:10:40 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dcca4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:35 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:27 - 05:23:03 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-217-166-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 05:23:49 Nope, I was right - I'm not handling this case properly (defun b (&key ((:b *a*) *a*)) (a)) When *a* is a special variable I'm not initializing *a* with *a* if I don't provide the keyword parameter ":b" - tricky, tricky stuff. 05:24:23 Within the function "b" the special *a* was unbound. 05:24:53 It should have kept whatever dynamic value it had before entering the function. 05:25:22 I'll fix it tomorrow - Bike - thanks for your help. 05:25:29 mm 05:25:43 and it should be rebound, specifically 05:26:50 Yup - that isn't happening currently. It's a rare case that I hadn't encountered before now. 05:26:56 sdemarre [~serge@8.65-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:30:52 Hmmm, I'm saving it, unbinding it and then setting it to its new value which is unbound - I'll have to set it to its old value. 05:31:17 -!- sdemarre [~serge@8.65-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:32:14 I'll have to sleep on it - 'nighty night. 05:32:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:44 -!- _schulte1 [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:38:01 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:39:17 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 05:40:45 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 05:40:59 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:58 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:44:49 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:46:11 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:47:00 gmcastil` [~user@198.23.71.71-static.reverse.softlayer.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:16 -!- gmcastil [~user@70-59-29-55.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:21 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:50:31 -!- meiji11 [~user@75.158.41.148] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:05 hajovonta [ofp@62.212.72.240] has joined #lisp 05:55:11 hello 06:00:02 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-45-41.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 06:02:59 teggi [~teggi@113.173.3.200] has joined #lisp 06:04:43 rszeno [~rszeno@79.118.12.64] has joined #lisp 06:05:29 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:42 mrSpec [~Spec@host166-12-static.253-95-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:10:42 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Anyone to help me explain what am I doing wrong? 11:39:40 -!- Batalyx_ is now known as Batalyx 11:40:08 -!- Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:13 i don't see any errors in this paste 11:40:36 ehu [~Erik@109.33.52.183] has joined #lisp 11:42:19 Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:49:48 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 11:56:09 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:48 Beetny_ [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-139.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:08 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-217-166-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:58:17 fsvehla [~fsvehla@176066036166.atmpu0050.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:26 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 11:59:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-34.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:59:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-139.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:59:14 -!- Beetny_ is now known as Beetny 12:05:17 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:35 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@176066036166.atmpu0050.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:06:31 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 12:06:52 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:07:26 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 12:07:30 fsvehla [~fsvehla@176066036166.atmpu0050.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:23 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-139.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:10:33 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-34.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:31 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@176066036166.atmpu0050.highway.a1.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:21 -!- theos is now known as Guest70460 12:13:41 -!- Guest70460 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:13:52 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:18:53 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:20:00 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:44 malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:16 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:12 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:29:36 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:30:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:31:08 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:33 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.33.52.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:32:14 drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:46 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 12:36:03 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:36:18 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:38:58 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [] 12:39:59 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:9557:6609:f5f5:2672] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:40:29 -!- PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:41:07 PuercoPop [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:23 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest25252 12:41:24 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-76-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:50 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.245.27] has joined #lisp 12:41:55 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:49 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:42:49 Greetings! 12:47:11 hi 12:47:49 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:49:13 Is it possible to somehow test functions which read from stream except reading from file stream? I can't find such function to create stream to write custom data in it. 12:49:44 what element-type? 12:50:02 stassats: (unsigned-byte 8) 12:50:08 for strings, see with-output-to-string, with-input-from-string 12:50:32 for binary, see flexi-streams 12:50:42 stassats: ok, thanks 12:51:14 with-input-from-sequence, exactly what wanted 12:52:31 ASMK568 [~g23vt568@212.150.107.171] has joined #lisp 12:52:32 -!- ASMK568 [~g23vt568@212.150.107.171] has left #lisp 12:53:24 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:53:56 -!- Guest25252 [~user@pool-96-250-219-190.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55:11 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:55:34 drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:07 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:57:28 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:40 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 13:00:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:24 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-66-59.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:39 malkomalko [~malkomalk@rrcs-24-103-18-196.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:15 ASMK879 [~g23vt879@212.150.107.171] has joined #lisp 13:02:16 -!- ASMK879 [~g23vt879@212.150.107.171] has left #lisp 13:02:47 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:04:03 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:04:50 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:07:16 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 13:07:30 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:07:40 hi 13:10:25 hello 13:11:30 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 13:12:33 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:12:57 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:13 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 13:18:35 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 13:18:37 xificurC, your x is an object, but should be a type specifier 13:19:10 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20:14 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:20:33 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:36 ASMK324 [~g23vt324@212.150.107.171] has joined #lisp 13:20:37 -!- ASMK324 [~g23vt324@212.150.107.171] has left #lisp 13:21:15 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 13:22:14 ck: oh, ok thanks! 13:23:12 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:25:38 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:21 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:09 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 13:30:03 is there a way to suppress the messages when people join and leave the room? 13:30:18 gendl: depends on you client, but yes. 13:30:52 I just found #colloquy room, thanks. 13:31:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:34:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-198-220.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:36:32 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:05 dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 13:37:20 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 13:39:27 aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:40:22 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 13:44:23 ehu [~Erik@109.33.52.183] has joined #lisp 13:44:41 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 13:45:26 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 13:46:21 hajovonta: how are you doing with your sockets? 13:47:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.206.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:48:00 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:55 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:45 Guest25252 [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 13:49:58 hitecnologys: i experimented with it: successfully connected and sent simple stuff, 13:50:33 i'm not sure yet whether i want simple sockets or communicate over http 13:50:55 kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 13:51:34 hajovonta: if in doubt, use http. 13:51:34 maybe i start with simple tcp sockets and then later change to some protocol over http to communicate 13:52:38 H4ns: it would be certainly better, but at this stage of development i don't really need that functionality, and it seems easy to later change the implementation 13:52:49 -!- dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:26 hajovonta: try restas if you want simple http server 13:53:53 hitecnologys: thanks for the tip 13:54:05 i am already familiar with allegroserve 13:55:55 I was writing a library for building multi-user servers with custom protocols but I didn't finish it (about 20% ready). I still keep sources somewhere, maybe I'll check my backups and external disks tomorrow. 13:56:16 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:20 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:56:59 hitecnologys: care to share? 13:58:16 not really, just in case someone needs this some time 13:58:48 dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 13:58:52 (someone will need this some time /fix) 13:59:37 :) 14:00:06 hajovonta: if you don't care much about being high-performance, I've got a little tcp framework that works a bit like hunchentoot 14:00:22 hajovonta: brain sometimes trows exceptions which I can't always handle correctly so I make stupid mistakes =P 14:00:32 hajovonta: it's only thread-per-connection right now, so you won't get a ton of simultaneous clients 14:00:43 -!- balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:01:08 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:01:11 fortitude: that would still allow a few hundred clients, right? 14:01:23 -!- setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:01:37 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:37 hajovonta: apache is thread-per-connection, so I should think so 14:02:12 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:18 i would be most grateful if you provide the source 14:02:24 hajovonta: https://github.com/mtstickney/weft if you want to take a look 14:02:31 thx :) 14:03:41 dioxriane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 14:03:49 -!- dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:11 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:18 hajovonta: just curious, what are you writing? 14:05:48 natechan [~natechan@69.38.214.164] has joined #lisp 14:07:01 balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 14:07:32 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:09 -!- dioxriane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:31 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 14:10:34 setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:59 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 14:12:43 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:49 oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:15:32 anybody else have trouble with usocket's use of STRERROR on clisp? 14:15:34 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 14:16:04 at some point in hunchentoot it's getting called with a string instead of an integer or keyword 14:17:15 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.248.102] has joined #lisp 14:18:22 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.189.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:18:53 That combo is probably not tested very well. 14:18:57 lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:59 fortitude: it might not be helpful, but clisp is not used by many people. 14:19:13 fortitude: you'll get better support in this channel if you use sbcl or clozure cl. 14:19:24 H4ns: I kind of had that impression 14:19:32 H4ns: everything works fine on sbcl 14:19:36 fortitude: it was the right impression :) 14:19:45 H4ns: I'm something of a fiend for portability, though 14:19:46 hitecnologys: i'm experimenting with distributed parallel processing, just for fun 14:20:08 hajovonta: sounds cool 14:20:22 fortitude: it's good for projects to work everywhere equally well, but that doesn't always happen. 14:20:50 fortitude: i'm all for portability, but if an implementation is not well supported by the library infrastructure, portability to that implementation does not give you much 14:20:58 fortitude: unless you plan to fix, say, usocket. 14:21:07 H4ns: that's exactly what I'm trying to do 14:21:25 hitecnologys: i want to develop a small framework which allows dynamic management of connected computers at runtime 14:21:31 H4ns: I just hate hoping to use a sane tool on, say, Windows, then finding out that portability is poor :/ 14:21:36 dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 14:21:49 fortitude: use clozure cl, it runs very well on windows. 14:21:58 fortitude: even sbcl does nowadays. 14:22:14 hitecnologys: then the network will execute various computations and adapts to changing conditions 14:22:29 hajovonta: it may be useful for jams, I was thinking about distributed minecraft server 14:22:37 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-17-104.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:22:47 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:15 H4ns: sbcl actually has some (minor) issues on windows 8 14:23:31 H4ns: mostly in the repl, so it's not a huge deal 14:23:41 hitecnologys: lisp would theoretically allow during runtime to change the code the network runs 14:23:54 H4ns: did threading and whatnot ever get integrated into vanilla sbcl? 14:24:25 fortitude: that i can't tell - i have been using the special windows build a wee while ago and that worked for what i tried to do. 14:24:31 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:24:35 hajovonta: distributing lisp runtime over network is crazy idea, but I like it 14:25:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:25:49 -!- dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:50 hitecnologys: if you stick to functional programming, you can easily do that - send code with data to process to another machine and then get back the result 14:25:53 fortitude: yes 14:26:13 hajovonta: yeah, I know, it just sounds crazy 14:27:19 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:27:24 hitecnologys: there are issues though - you send data over the network and it's slow compared to local computation 14:27:54 so my idea is to dynamically benchmark computation speed and then distribute the problem space among computers if necessary 14:28:25 Generally you need to structure things appropriate to get much advantage from distribution. 14:28:25 hajovonta: if you execute two difficult tasks (like mining bitcoins) it may not be that slow. 14:29:06 but you somehow need to determine if task is worth sending to another machine 14:29:15 hitecnologys: or cracking passwords. 14:29:25 Zhivago: sure 14:29:30 or folding proteins 14:29:47 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:29:47 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:31:06 You should be able to estimate the i/o cost of a task. 14:31:27 hajovonta: do you plan to publish your code some time? I'd be very glad to participate in it somehow. 14:31:51 Zhivago: my idea is not to estimate, but dynamically measure and then distribute if necessary 14:32:01 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:14 hitecnologys: sure, but i'm really just experimenting for now 14:32:15 Zhivago: the problem is not estimate time needed to send, but estimate time needed to execute it on local machine 14:32:32 hajovonta: ok 14:32:38 Execution time is the easy problem, really. 14:33:17 You can keep table of speed+ping to each node in your piece of network. 14:33:30 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:48 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:59 So calculating time needed to send and receive is easy too. 14:34:24 You can also keep execution speed of different machines to determine which is best for this task. 14:34:26 Providing that you've chopped things up into suitable chunks first. 14:34:41 -!- bitonic [~user@2.126.175.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:46 -!- pierpa``` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34:48 Of course you need to split task into smaller ones 14:35:12 The hardiest part is to make it all p2p imo 14:35:17 Then it's just a matter of packing N tasks into N processors such that the i/o cost is minimized. 14:35:36 Well, there are protocols like chord, but you might want to ask yourself 'why does it need to be all p2p?' 14:36:11 Centralized distributed computations is not that cool like decentralized 14:36:45 Centralized resources can be easily disabled if you destroy central server 14:36:53 it would be cool if machines could be added and removed during computation 14:37:08 hajovonta: it's actually not that hard to implement 14:37:08 Yeah, like DNS -- so very fragile. 14:37:38 The problem is that at some point you need to agree on how to establish some initial consensus. 14:37:51 oudeis_ [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:38:10 So having a couple of established points of coordination is probably not worth trying to avoid. 14:38:12 Zhivago: you can make every node server so every client can use every node to get other node's addresses 14:38:30 And how do they know the other nodes' addresses? 14:38:30 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:12 Zhivago: they have to know some addresses, you can walk through these addresses until you get enough 14:39:30 Zhivago: how nodes are supposed to send code if they don't know addresses of some other nodes? 14:39:39 And how do you know that those addresses will produce a transitive closure of the whole network? 14:39:47 yrk [~user@75-150-104-107-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:58 -!- yrk [~user@75-150-104-107-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:39:58 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 14:40:01 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:40:10 Zhivago: each client doesn't have to know all addresses, let's call this thing "regions" 14:40:26 Think about what happens if your network becomes partitioned -- how will it unpartition itself? 14:40:48 can i compile SBCL in the cloud? 14:40:50 There are lots of topologies that can emerge -- one problem with chord, for example, is that you can form multiple, independent rings. 14:40:59 i think there is a network called Gnutella that does this, but that's for file sharing and not computation 14:41:12 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:41:18 A simple way to get around that is to have some clearly defined coordination points. 14:41:29 stassats: probably, yes, but we don't have cloud that can do this now 14:41:29 But then it isn't 'all p2p'. 14:42:30 Yeah, makings some coordination points could be wise thing to do 14:42:44 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:14 clients can agree on a coordination master, and i think it is possible to design a protocol for cases when this master goes down 14:43:32 The problem with could is keeping track on tasks. What if one client is executing different task while it has got another? What it should do then? 14:43:38 hajavonta, hajavonta, http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/papers/spider_calculus.pdf 14:44:06 thanks, i will read it. 14:44:24 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:36 is from 2010, but is interesting, same subject mobile agents and independent location 14:46:13 mach [~mach@223.182.200.158] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 for now, i would be glad if clients can connect to a server and send code and data back and forth, and somewhere i get a result and it's correct. :-) 14:46:30 I once tried to develop p2p protocol for gaming but I dropped this idea because it looked pretty slow on big number of people and I can't imagine how can I automatically rebuild network in case player visibility range changes (player should send updates really fast to people who don't see him). 14:46:51 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:00 I have a defun in a package and its behavior changes if I call it from inside the package or outside, what should I suspect? It simply does an assoc on a list I build with a package-internal defun 14:47:25 I use SILME/SBCL 14:47:31 BBShortcut: are the keys symbols? 14:47:47 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@62-90-110-122.barak.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:47:55 the key is 'mail-alias 14:47:59 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 14:48:04 BBShortcut: probably you have the same symbols with different values in different packages 14:48:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:48:16 there are issues like client gets data and suddenly-quietly disconnects during computation and result never comes back, or when client executes the given code and gets an error and such 14:48:19 BBShortcut: What is the fully-qualified name of mail-alias? 14:48:39 e.g. MYPROJECT::MAIL-ALIAS or something? 14:48:42 Xach: how can I get it? 14:48:55 hajovonta: the errors are not really a problem but quit disconnections is, but it easily solvable via timeouts 14:49:24 BBShortcut: the symbol-package function will tell you the home package of a symbol. 14:49:24 BBShortcut: tell me your *package* 14:49:47 BBShortcut: it seems likely to me that you are working with two distinct symbols (in different packages) that happen to have the same name 14:49:51 BBShortcut: the easiest way to get out of this is to use keyword symbols. 14:50:10 drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:27 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50:37 BBShortcut: if you pass 'symbol to the same function from package X and from package Y result may differ. 14:51:02 BBShortcut: use :keywords if you want package independent symbols, like H4ns said 14:51:29 OK I try, thanks 14:51:34 *Xach* has vicious deja vu 14:52:04 MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@66-162-141-202.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:06 Xach: just wait till pjb reads the logs, you will hear it all again 14:54:32 hitecnologys: the call to 'mail-alias is in my defun so I do not see why, when I call the defun outside, it would use another 'mail-alias but it is probably what I missed ;-) 14:54:52 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:55:31 symbols are resolved at read-time 14:55:35 BBShortcut: if you call it inside, it uses the same symbols 14:55:49 which comes before compile-time 14:55:55 BBShortcut: try (describe 'mail-alias) in each package 14:56:09 -!- hajovonta [sxrphjw@62.212.72.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:58 -!- mach [~mach@223.182.200.158] has left #lisp 14:56:59 dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 14:57:48 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:58:41 H4ns: package::mail-alias for each 14:58:52 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:59:04 "package" being equal for the two? 14:59:15 no 14:59:18 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 14:59:19 you see? 14:59:38 (eql 'package1::foo 'package2::foo) => nil 15:00:03 as assoc uses eql to compare keys, your assoc invocation does not yield what you expect. 15:00:04 BBShortcut: just use keywords 15:01:16 -!- dioxirane [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: dioxriane] 15:01:45 H4ns: yes, I see, so when I read my bbdb file (that's all about extracting mail-aliases from bbdb records) (mail-alias . "friends, school") and so on use bbdb::mail-alias implicitly and when I call my defun outside of bbdb package 'mail-alias is replaced with cl-user::mail-alias, which doesn't match any key - is it correct? 15:02:29 yes, for the matter of this discussion. 15:02:30 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:04 basically, you need to make sure that *package* is bound to whatever package you expect to use for lookups when reading unqualified symbols from an external source. 15:03:11 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:03:15 pnpuff [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 15:03:57 -!- Guest25252 [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:04:17 hitecnologys: my repl loads bbdb records directly and they contain alists so I would have to replace 'mail-alias by :mail-alias in another defun and I'm afraid I will fall in the same 'mail-aias lookup issues 15:04:32 H4ns: may I use another test than eql to fix it? 15:04:40 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.206.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:01 BBShortcut: sure, #'string-equal works well 15:05:01 BBShortcut: then use another record structure 15:05:46 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:06:36 Guest25252 [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 15:07:09 -!- Guest25252 is now known as PuercoPop 15:07:21 H4ns: very nice ;-) 15:08:13 hitecnologys: you mean, before loading data as alists? 15:08:38 BBShortcut: yep 15:08:39 H4ns: I thought I was mad in the first instance, I have a lot to learn... 15:09:57 -!- pnpuff [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:10 BBShortcut: enjoy. the package system is particular in that it is very simple, but it is somewhat complexly connected to the reader and special variables which are kind of strange at first in their own right. 15:10:28 why it worked well with 'notes, 'timestamp and 'creation-date? Because these symbols did not exist in cl-user? 15:12:02 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-104.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:57 BBShortcut: i don't know. symbols are created on the fly, so it should not matter if they existed before 15:13:02 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 15:14:57 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@rrcs-24-103-18-196.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:59 H4ns: indeed assoc 'notes worked fine inside or outside of my bbdb package and that's how I missed the point about symbols 15:16:39 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:18:10 H4ns: I will replace the test fn everywhere anyway 15:18:12 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:19:53 -!- natechan [~natechan@69.38.214.164] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:21:32 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:22:23 josemanuel [~josemanue@216.171.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:23:31 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:24:15 mach [~mach@27.61.66.30] has joined #lisp 15:27:14 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:33 -!- mach [~mach@27.61.66.30] has left #lisp 15:30:59 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:31:49 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:33:15 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-95.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:21 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:26 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:26 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:33:45 hitecnologys: :mail-alias is still a symbol, isn't it? 15:33:49 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:33:57 it's short for keyword::mail-alias 15:34:01 BBShortcut: sure 15:34:34 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.183.55] has joined #lisp 15:34:48 stassats: is keyword ; "special" package? 15:35:00 yes 15:35:06 bhyde123 [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:02 bitonic [~user@dyn1217-18.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:36:09 OK so I better understand why it is preferable to use :symbols when moving data around packages 15:36:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:36:51 because they are all in the same package 15:37:25 Well, it's better to use easily comparable symbols. keywords are easily comparable. eq symbols are also easily comparable. string-equal symbols are slightly more difficult to compare. 15:37:50 Understanding how to make FOO read as an appropriate object for comparison is good. 15:38:00 Oi, I am at a loss as to why the following test fails. I am guessing it is related to the weird way it is printed? I've written a small test case https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5765844 15:38:06 it works when I run the staments in the repl 15:39:30 and ignoring the newlines the output looks the same 15:39:36 PuercoPop: don't modify quoted lists. 15:39:50 PuercoPop: try making them with (list :empty ...) instead. 15:40:31 Xach: So you are saying I should recreate the list instead of setf a field right? 15:40:50 No, I'm not saying you should recreate it, I am saying you should create it initially by using LIST, not by using a quoted list. 15:41:10 Or rather, you should create lists you intend to modify later with LIST. 15:41:15 -!- bhyde123 [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0] 15:41:21 (list :1 :2 :3) 15:41:37 yeah, I didn't knew there was a difference, sec 15:42:52 nahiluhmot [~thulihan@129.10.175.151] has joined #lisp 15:43:00 Xach: it gives the same error though. (I guessing it is something I don't know about fiveam because I've run onto a similar error with the tests I tried porting from gunicorn) 15:43:17 Sorry it didn't help with the specific problem. 15:44:08 PuercoPop: did you redefine the test case? 15:44:28 or are you running the same file you're editing? 15:44:50 Xach: nods. Btw could you tell me what difference it would make in this case? 15:45:08 stassats: I run the file from a bash script 15:45:24 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:45:27 yrk [~user@75-150-104-107-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:31 is that the correct one? 15:45:38 -!- yrk [~user@75-150-104-107-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:45:38 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:46:22 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn183.78-99-137.t-com.sk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:31 stassats: I just realized I have modified the isolated test case, sec let me modify the correct file 15:47:12 Ok that was it. Thanks Xach. 15:47:16 is fiveam parsing (fiveam:is (equal ...)) specially? 15:47:27 and using something else and not EQUAL? 15:47:49 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1217-18.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:54 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:31 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 15:48:32 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:48:35 stassats: I think is just check if the value returned is true. Using list instead of quote to define the list make the test pass. But I'm still at a loss as to why 15:48:44 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:49:07 modifying constant data is undefined 15:51:09 And quote makes it a constant? 15:51:21 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@114-34-99-241.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 15:52:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:53:07 Yes. 15:53:36 sorry, but is the same even with notinlined constants? 15:55:59 inlining has nothing to do with it, that question doesn't even make sense 15:56:40 ok... 15:57:36 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:49 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0] 15:59:15 malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:20 sirdancealo3 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:59:32 Well, good to know! 16:00:11 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:23 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:21 -!- kimochiwarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: Sitting in front of a computer 20 hours a day is bad for my health, so I am reducing it to 19. Or maybe not.] 16:05:53 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:06:30 If something execute inside a let statement is there reason why it wouldn't find the variable? ie. Using *current-player* as sort of a global but define it in an outer let of the main function but when trying to update it (I don't pass it as an argument) I get variable unbound 16:07:05 are you talking about closures? 16:08:19 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0] 16:09:02 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.145] has joined #lisp 16:09:04 Well in this case it should even be a closure 16:09:27 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:40 just an outer case 16:09:48 let me link you the examples 16:10:40 Currently I'm using a form like (defun "function-name" (declare (notinline "function name")) ...) to firstly compile a function and later trace all the recursive calls with clisp (and not only the top call). Is there a better method? thanks 16:10:42 https://github.com/PuercoPop/Michi/blob/master/src/michi.lisp#L167-L180 This is the outer let. And this is the function that tries to update *current-player* https://github.com/PuercoPop/Michi/blob/master/src/michi.lisp#L167-L180 16:11:29 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:12:48 are they special? 16:13:22 and if you want a portable main loop, use LOOP 16:13:39 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 16:15:43 snowylike2 [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:52 PuercoPo` [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 16:15:54 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:01 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:16:08 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.145] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:16:57 stassats: I'm struggling with common lisp, enough without tackling the loop dsl. I've seen you rewrote part of cl-ppcre to use loop btw 16:17:04 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 16:17:19 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:17:20 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:17:25 the simple-form (loop (do-something-forever)) 16:17:31 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:44 (loop (do-something-forever (unless condition (return)))) 16:18:20 PuercoPop: maybe the problem is that you're recursively calling main instead of main-loop, thus rebinding *current-player* and *board* every time? 16:18:29 not to mention destroying any hope of tail call optimization 16:19:07 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:24 PuercoPop: i rewrote a part of cl-ppcre to not use recursion 16:19:30 not a tail call one, at that 16:19:50 and LOOP is a natural tool for iteration 16:20:35 Bike: I just realized that! I had just renamed main-loop from main to increase readibilty. Going to change that. stassats I've read the dsl, but now that I tried to tackle my first big program in common lisp I saw there is a huge difference between reading something and doing something. So taking baby steps and trying to code as much in cl 16:20:37 bitonic [~user@dyn1219-189.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:21:12 loop has two forms, one that scares children, and another that is simple 16:21:47 (loop ...) just loops till the end of time, unless you call RETURN 16:21:50 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:22:07 or do any other non local transfer 16:22:08 (loop do until) would be appropiate here iirc. Ok I'll rewrite it 16:22:58 (loop (when (game-ended? ...) (return)) (play-game)) 16:23:04 no "dsl" involved 16:23:07 Bike: even after that the problem persistes. I can make it work probably bypassing current player to update player. But I still not sure as to why this doesn't work 16:23:21 do until will work, of course 16:27:47 but I still get teh unbound variable message. Could it be because *current-player* is not dynamically bound? 16:28:27 is it special? 16:31:50 I think not. Special means dynmically bound right? 16:32:38 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:33:08 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002e57.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:15 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.2.0] 16:33:23 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:33:33 it means declared to be special, it may have no bindings, but if it will be bound, the binding will be dynamic 16:33:52 defvar, defparameter, (proclaim '(special variable)) all make variables to be special 16:34:03 so you mean a (declare ) form at the top level? 16:34:06 what does that do? 16:34:14 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:19 declare is not allowed at the top level 16:34:37 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:34:39 the common way to make a special variable is to use (defvar *variable*) 16:35:41 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:36:14 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 *PuercoPop* nods I'm going to add it. I'm still don't quite grasp this lexical scoping thing. Everytime I think I do something like this shows me I don't. 16:37:05 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-217-166-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:37:43 Xach: what's the rule for quickloading projects that are in both local-projects and the quicklist dist? 16:37:44 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 16:37:48 that fixed the unbound variable part 16:40:40 -!- nahiluhmot [~thulihan@129.10.175.151] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:41:08 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:39 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1219-189.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:45:03 just a quick question ... why are earmuffs so important when making a Global Variable Definition? 16:45:15 and are they really needed or just something we lispers do? 16:45:27 they are a coding convention 16:45:50 a few compilers will warn if you use them on something that isn't known to be a special variable 16:45:58 <|3b|> SoupBone: once a symbol is declaimed special (for exa 16:46:13 <|3b|> for example by defvar or defparameter) it is always dynamically bound 16:46:24 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:35 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:35 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:46:59 <|3b|> so someone intending to define a lexical variable might accidentally get a special variable instead if it happens to match the name of a special var 16:47:27 <|3b|> or worse, existing code might change behavior if a special is later added with a name that matches some lexical parameter name or local variable 16:47:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:54 ok thanks guys, I'll make use of them ... back to reading/ typing in code .. yea 16:48:01 <|3b|> adding ** to the names of special variables avoids that risk, since names intende to be lexical won't have the ** 16:48:16 right on 16:48:44 SoupBone: also things get pretty weird (and inefficient) if you do: (defvar i 12) 16:50:00 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has joined #lisp 16:50:14 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 16:51:31 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.183.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:53:04 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:53:05 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Changing host] 16:53:05 talas [~talas@unaffiliated/talas] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 16:56:49 what is this (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ... I keep running into when trying to fixture when some macros work? 16:56:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-161.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:57:05 it means evaluate it all the time 16:57:11 the default is :load-toplevel :execute 16:57:31 so, if you need something available at compile-time (like a function which a macro calls), you add :compile-time 16:57:41 since macros work at compile-time 16:58:03 You mean, compile-time runtime as oposed to runtime-runtime? 16:58:41 there's no such thing as compile-time runtime 17:00:12 I read about phase separation a while ago. I thought macros get expanded in "compile-runtime" and then run on runtime-runtime. So when executing something there are no macros there 17:00:42 Although maybe I understanded everything wrong 17:00:49 macros are actually expanded at macroexpansion time, which is a part of compile-time 17:01:04 there's no compile-runtime and runtime-runtime, but compile-time and runtime 17:01:11 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:04:04 and when is it interpreted? when does compile time happens? 17:04:08 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 17:04:55 PuercoPop: Compile time happens when the defun expression is evaluated 17:05:08 nightfly: not really 17:05:29 PuercoPop: what do you mean by interpreted? 17:05:32 huh, I thought so 17:05:50 nightfly: compile time happens when you call compile-file 17:06:33 stassats: lisp can be interpreted and also compiled right? The repl is interpreted 17:06:40 iirc 17:06:48 the repl can do anything 17:06:53 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: playing Deus Ex: HR] 17:07:07 <|3b|> PuercoPop: 'interpreted' is an implementation detail, we use 'evaluated' (which might mean interpreted, compiled&run, or both depending on context) 17:07:13 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-104.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:07:43 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.33.52.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:47 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.189.88] has joined #lisp 17:08:35 PuercoPop: some lisps compile what you enter on the repl before executing it 17:08:49 yeah, like sbcl 17:08:59 sbcl evaluates some simple forms 17:09:06 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-99.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:15 stassats: only in the past 5 or 6 years though 17:09:25 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 17:09:28 that's like yesterday in lisp time 17:09:34 EVAL handled simple forms always 17:09:34 jasom: *nods* Yeah when I disssemble in sbcl it spits out assembler 17:09:37 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:38 So compile time is when you turn the s-exp's into the AST that is actually run? (that is in s-exp rights?) 17:09:46 nope, that's read time 17:10:13 <|3b|> 'compile time' is when it is compiling 17:10:15 REPL: Read Evaluete Print Loop 17:10:18 jasom: (eval '(print 10)) will do (funcall 'print 10) regardless of the evaluation mode 17:10:28 stassats: that makes sense 17:10:35 <|3b|> which might be implicit (for example in a compile-only implementation), or might be when you call COMPILE or COMPILE-FILE 17:11:23 *|3b|* would expand REPL to Read Eval Print Loop as in (loop (print (eval (read)))) 17:12:05 so how many times are there in common lisp? 17:12:45 <|3b|> depends on how picky you want to be :p 17:12:54 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:13:14 <|3b|> read, macroexpand, compile are probably the most interesting ones 17:13:27 and run-time 17:13:53 <|3b|> right, though distinguishing the others from that is usually what makes them interesting to talk about :) 17:14:08 *PuercoPop* nods 17:14:23 <|3b|> there is also load time (as mentioned in the eval-when) 17:14:25 run-time may come also either from loading fasls or loading lisp sources 17:14:26 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ba.htm 17:16:12 <|3b|> and note that a lot of these times might overlap, or be subsets of each other, or call things that bound another time 17:16:34 <|3b|> for example macroexpansion usually happens from compilation or evaluation 17:16:49 elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:04 <|3b|> or you can READ things from other contexts 17:17:30 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:17:34 iglu [~nick@203-59-85-77.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 17:20:04 I just wrote my very first program in Clisp .. and it was not hello world ... I'm in love 17:20:50 and with just 3 variables and 4 functions 17:20:55 I love lisp 17:21:07 did you sell it? 17:21:21 no ... I'm working through a book right now 17:21:28 I just got exited ... :D 17:22:16 I'v done some programming in python and java ( not so much java) and honestly I'm supper in love with lisp ... and yes I'd mary the Weotch 17:22:23 ok ... back to reading 17:28:19 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:28:51 SoupBone: What made you fall in love? 17:29:24 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:12 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:34 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:31:23 -!- Batalyx [~ji@halava.cc.jyu.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31:37 Batalyx [~ji@halava.cc.jyu.fi] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 -!- seantallen [~seantalle@ec2-54-234-24-103.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31:53 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 17:32:26 -!- Codynyx_ [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:25 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:34:57 seantallen [~seantalle@ec2-54-234-24-103.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:20 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:36:38 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.204.96] has joined #lisp 17:36:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:36:39 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.204.96] has quit [Changing host] 17:36:39 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:37:31 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:38:33 I'm still trying to deal with this sb-int:simple-stream-error thing. Why exactly this condition is thrown? When sbcl can't write to stream? 17:40:33 how do implementations handle situations like this: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_abaad.htm 17:41:09 jasom: like the spec says to. 17:41:45 pkhuong: no, but how do they represent in the lexical environment whether a symbol refers to a lexical variable or a dynamic variable 17:42:51 exactly like that. With a lexical environment that map variable names to scoping information, including whether the binding is lexical or dynamic. 17:43:03 okay 17:43:53 sometimes I wish common-lisp's evaluation semantics didn't have so many corner cases 17:44:18 it seems like implementing an EVAL that is conforment is a *lot* of work, even ignoring performance 17:44:43 clhs 3.1.2.1.1 17:44:50 i'm trying the compiling with closures thing right now, it's pretty easy metacircularly, except for special bindings in let and lambda lists, i think 17:46:38 what happened to specbot? 17:47:30 bitonic [~user@2.126.175.247] has joined #lisp 17:48:04 pnpuff [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 17:48:40 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 17:49:42 looks like he's a bit down 17:52:01 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:04 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:52:28 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 17:52:33 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:54:09 jasom asked "how do implementations handle situations " Eval and the compilers maintain internally something called the environment, a data structure were knowledge of what is lexically apparent along with notes stuff they find useful (e.g. declarations). This data structure's form is private, but macros can get a handle on it for some fun special cases. You can largely ignore this, but if you want to inspect it: write a macro using 17:54:10 &environment in it's lambda list and put a break in the code and then you can dive into via the inspector. 17:54:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:56:18 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:06 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 17:57:16 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.145] has joined #lisp 17:57:39 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.248.14] has joined #lisp 17:59:16 bhyde: I'm aware of the environment; I hadn't thought of inspecting it like that though 17:59:43 I'm reading "Common Lisp: a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" and I've a doubt: is the function anyoddp reported in Figure 8-1 (Template for double-test tail recursion) really tail recursive? I've traced that function but not seems recursive at all to me. 18:00:17 what page? 18:00:23 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:00:36 sykopomp: pag. 249 18:01:26 looks recursive to me 18:01:28 pag. takes the same characters as page 18:01:37 <|3b|> yeah, looks reasonably tail-recursive 18:01:39 same number 18:01:47 http://books.google.com/books?id=uHW5WS-va2UC&pg=PA235&lpg=PA235&dq=anyoddp&source=bl&ots=zLNWaZprAj&sig=UKgVqNfOYy1bP0gQVbm4esMEPqI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=V7e4UbnYOILn0wGjooDQDw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=anyoddp&f=false 18:01:50 pnpuff: (t (annyoddp (rest x)) 18:01:57 loks tail recursive to me 18:02:01 looks* 18:02:07 drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:07 *sykopomp* has a hardcopy. 18:02:15 pnpuff: it calls itself, so it's recursive. The call happens in a tail position so it's tail recursive 18:02:47 pnpuff: consider (anyoddp '(2 1)) 18:03:46 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 18:05:42 jasom: ok, but I get wrong results from that function, e.g. (anyoddp '(2 1)) => T 18:06:05 that's right 18:06:13 it returns true if any element is odd 18:06:15 1 is odd 18:06:45 (logbitp 0 1) => T, it checks out 18:06:48 ops 18:07:56 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:08:47 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 18:11:06 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.32.21] has joined #lisp 18:12:28 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:13:53 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:14:09 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 18:14:15 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.245.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:21 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:51 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:15:08 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 18:17:03 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:28 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:59 -!- SoupBone [~SoupBone@108-193-178-148.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 18:20:54 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:21:31 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.145] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:23:45 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 18:23:50 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:06 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 18:24:28 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:18 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:25:26 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 18:25:30 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:10 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:28:08 -!- elh [~elawrence@ool-ae2cc55a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: elh] 18:30:07 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has quit [Quit: ManAmongHippos] 18:31:00 -!- ck [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:34 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:32:19 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-28.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 18:32:19 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-28.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:32:19 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 18:32:39 ASau` [~user@p5797FAB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:57 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96A04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:36:43 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:38:00 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:10 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:36 lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.172] has joined #lisp 18:39:48 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:40:10 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:36 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-78-30.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-220-99.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:41 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:54 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:47:18 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:31 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:47:51 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:51:30 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:51 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:53:02 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:53:19 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:46 is the "push-down list" term (used in appendix H of "Lisp 1.5 programmer's manual") equivalent to stack or not? 18:56:07 can you push and pop? 18:56:12 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-165.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:03 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:27 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:58:06 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:17 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:58:24 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:33 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 18:59:03 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:43 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:20 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:21 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 19:03:57 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:08 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 19:04:40 -!- macrobat_ is now known as macrobat 19:05:48 elibarzilay [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:05:48 -!- elibarzilay [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 19:05:48 elibarzilay [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 19:06:26 -!- elibarzilay [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:20 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:10 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:20 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 19:12:12 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:33 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:13:04 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@216.171.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:10 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-24.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 19:13:11 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-24.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 19:13:11 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:15:14 mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has joined #lisp 19:15:33 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:13 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 19:17:40 josemanuel [~josemanue@222.182.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-165.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:23:11 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:53 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 19:23:57 eli [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:23:57 -!- eli [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 19:23:57 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 19:25:17 hzp [~user@eth1-2.bob.askja.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:17 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has joined #lisp 19:34:40 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has quit [Client Quit] 19:35:31 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.145] has joined #lisp 19:38:02 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.57.145] has quit [Client Quit] 19:38:50 found an awesome reading about the topic of recursion: "Recursive Functions of Symbolic Expressions and Their Computation by Machine" ... wow! 19:40:29 Oi so doesn't the (setf foo) in (defun (setf foo) ...) violate the syntax describe in setf {pair}* => result* with pair::= place newvalue http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_setf_.htm? 19:41:47 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 19:42:28 -!- snowylike2 [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002e57.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:43:13 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:43:22 hi 19:43:22 the form defines a function with the name (setf foo); it's not a setf form anymore than (let ((setf 42)) ...) is. 19:44:53 i like (let (setf #'42) ...) more 19:44:59 Denommus: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_name 19:45:24 whoops that was to be to PuercoPop 19:45:28 (let (setf #'42) (or setf function)) => 42 19:45:37 Notice that (setf symbol) is a valid function name 19:47:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:47:54 -!- ASau [~user@p5797FAB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:38 PuercoPop: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/05_abi.htm <-- tjat 19:48:45 Wait a second... what? You just ruined my entire universe of how let look like. 19:48:56 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 19:48:57 that's where (defun (setf foo) ..) is described 19:49:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:26 PuercoPop: it always takes me 5 minutes of digging through the hyperspec to find it since it has the non-descriptive name "Other compound forms as places" 19:49:55 hitecnologys: my pleasure 19:50:30 jasom: That resolves the defun part but isn't (setf foo) still illegal? 19:50:46 I always thought that (defun (setf name) ...) is like a special construction defined by compiler and now you say that it's like correct function name? Damn. 19:50:47 ASau [~user@p5797FAB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:49 PuercoPop: it's a legal function name 19:51:41 So what is inside teh defun is governed by another part of the standard? 19:51:50 (defun (setf foo) (f) f) #'(setf foo) 19:52:03 that's the same as (defun foo (f) f) #'foo 19:52:20 (setf foo) is just the function name in the first one and foo is in the second one 19:52:53 PuercoPop: no, what constitutes a legal function name is completely orthogonal to how the special form setf works 19:53:17 just like (let ((setf 1)) setf) is orthogonal to how setf works 19:53:19 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dcca4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:12 setf handles (setf foo) specially 19:54:26 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:34 drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:45 if there's no other possibilities for (setf (foo ...) ...), it calls #'(setf foo) 19:54:51 jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has joined #lisp 19:55:29 is it possible to define custom function which may be called like #'(thing another-thing)? 19:55:30 *PuercoPop* nods 19:55:31 is (setf foo) really a legal function name? 19:55:37 so that was what jasom meant! 19:55:39 yes. 19:55:40 fortitude: sure 19:55:43 fortitude: how many times should that be repeated? 19:55:57 hitecnologys: no 19:56:04 yeah I learned that yesterday. I was at a loss so I blogged about it :) 19:56:14 (defun (setf foo) () nil) ((setf foo)) 19:56:22 stassats: so, they are defined by some compiler rules which I can't change? 19:56:42 jasom: that's not legal 19:56:49 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:50 francogrex [~user@91.179.241.11] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 ((setf foo)), (apply/funcall '(setf foo)) aren't legal 19:56:59 this is interesting: https://github.com/fjames86/mhash 19:57:05 hitecnologys: it's defined by the standard 19:57:14 stassats: oh realy? I didn't know that 19:57:38 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has joined #lisp 19:57:39 hitecnologys: implementations are free to extend the possibilities and expose mechanisms for others to do so, but there's nothing in the standard. 19:57:43 hitecnologys: I posted a link earlier to the glossary entry for "function name" it can be a symbol, or a list of the form (setf symbol) 19:58:25 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dcca4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:58:26 clhs 3.1.2.1.2 19:58:37 bah, no specbot 19:58:45 stassats: I actually meant specific implementation - sbcl 19:58:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:00 hitecnologys: yes, define-function-name-syntax 19:59:10 sb-int 19:59:39 cool, thanks. 19:59:58 stassats: ((setf foo)) isn't allowed, but where is (funcall #'(setf foo)) not allowed? 20:00:05 Isn't it a bad practice or something? 20:00:14 jasom: (funcall '(setf foo)) 20:00:19 oh, you were missing the # 20:00:20 right 20:00:27 it's not allowed in clhs funcall 20:01:36 hitecnologys: it would be stupid to define a function named (setf something) that wasn't specifically for use with (setf (something ...)), and then just use it with (funcall #'(setf something)). But the code would conform to the lisp standard 20:02:13 any sufficiently powerful tool can be used stupidly with ugly results 20:02:16 jasom: I'm just curious, of course I don't want to use it like this 20:02:33 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:34 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:08 clhs funcall 20:03:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_funcal.htm 20:04:12 replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:49 *francogrex* wonders when would one actually need multiple key hash tables 20:05:20 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-103-52.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:31 a little nicer than nested hash tables, I guess 20:06:02 dlowe: you mean a hash whose value(s) are also hash-tables? 20:06:12 francogrex: yes 20:06:22 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:23 though you could just say (cons key1 key2) is the key and work off that 20:06:43 is wrong this expression: (setf my-gcd (lambda (m n) (cond ((> m n) (my-gcd n m)) ((eql (mod n m) 0) m) (t (my-gcd (mod n m) m))))) ? 20:06:46 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:01 what's a multiple-key hash-table? 20:07:04 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:51 dlowe: downside to that is that you can't use #'eql hash tables anymore 20:09:17 I need to write an expression for recursive functions, and bind the symbol representing the name of the recursive function to the expression wich defines the recursive function itself... 20:09:37 so is the use of setf right or not? 20:11:00 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: !] 20:12:08 jasom: https://github.com/fjames86 20:12:33 https://github.com/fjames86/mhash 20:13:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:06 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:14:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-214-145.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:15:01 pnpuff: you want (setf (symbol-function 'my-gcd)) if you're going to call it as (my-gcd ...) 20:17:26 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboo69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:18:33 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboo69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:42 btw why does it sometimes appear that copy and pasting in the repl and doing C-c C-e evaluates in different environments? 20:18:47 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboo69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:18:53 pnpuff: why not just do: (defun my-gcd (m n) (cond ((> m n) (my-gcd n m)) ((eql (mod n m) 0) m) (t (my-gcd (,,, 20:19:12 PuercoPop: slime has magic to autodetect the package in your buffer. 20:19:19 bhyde: I just know that solution 20:20:15 ...and I'm searching something similar to label(a,epsilon) 20:20:16 ah so If I'm not on the same package in the repl and the buffer Then C-c C-e evaluates in the package it is declared in the buffer? 20:20:30 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:48 it uses the package which is indicated in the mode-line 20:20:59 failing that, the package in the repl is used 20:21:09 (failing: the package does not exist) 20:21:13 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has quit [Quit: ManAmongHippos] 20:21:23 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-76-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:53 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-76-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:23:55 what is #'sxhash ? 20:24:16 clhs sxhash 20:24:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sxhash.htm 20:25:57 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-115-250.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:25:58 subtlepath [~walker@subtlepath.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:58 -!- cameron.freenode.net changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.1.8 20:26:18 what happend to the topic? 20:26:20 is a hash function ? sxhash returns a hash code for objects 20:26:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-198-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:27:27 -!- stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CFFI 0.11.2, SBCL 1.1.8 20:29:27 -!- francogrex [~user@91.179.241.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:49 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-217-166-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30:55 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:00 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-190-4.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:32:16 drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:12 gonna get me some cost calculus - http://xach.livejournal.com/318604.html 20:33:42 is there a reason why mappend here calls apply to mapcar other than 'destructuring' the rest arguments? http://common-lisp.net/project/bdb/qbook/mycl-util/api/function_005FMYCL-UTIL_003A_003AMAPPEND.html 20:34:28 apply #'append is actually bogus 20:35:15 what do you mean? not needed? 20:35:26 it's wrong and will fail 20:35:47 but I have it working ... 20:36:06 that's not a good indication 20:36:08 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.248.14] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:36:34 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:34 (apply #'append (make-list 5000)) *** - APPLY: too many arguments given to APPEND 20:36:36 oops 20:36:43 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 20:36:59 working through the excersises in the first chapters of the paip to grasp a cl better 20:37:00 (reduce #'append (make-list 50000)) => NIL 20:37:31 that's on clisp 20:37:44 hmm 20:37:54 on sbcl: (apply #'append (make-list 500000)) Control stack guard page temporarily disabled: proceed with caution 20:38:04 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has joined #lisp 20:38:07 stassats: :from-end t, for the love of linear time. 20:38:25 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:39:04 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:48 I don't want to code dump (even more) https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/f50709b6363889bc6b9d but calling (generate 'sentence) with that definition of mappend works (not as intended though maybe I've copied it wrong) 20:40:12 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:37 but yeah I not entirely sure as to why not use mapcar directly 20:40:52 mapcar won't append the results 20:41:09 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:41:36 drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@h69-21-18-138.nwlnnh.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:54 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 20:42:24 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:11 elh [~elawrence@ool-ad025ac3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:19 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:41 So why won't append work then? 20:44:01 if we apply it sans reduce? 20:46:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:47:26 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:39 PuercoPop: append doesnt take a list, it takes &rest 20:49:37 PuercoPop: So you have to apply or reduce, but apply may result in a too-many-argument error, if you overflow the number of function args the implementation supports. 20:51:59 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:45 -!- pnpuff [~name@gateway/tor-sasl/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:56:04 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:57:37 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:15 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:17 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:02:48 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:03:15 sdemarre [~serge@8.65-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:03:37 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:56 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 21:05:47 drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@173-162-165-237-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:43 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:07:44 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:40 EvW1 [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:10:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010033.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:04 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.206.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:12:06 -!- rk[sigh] is now known as ryankarason 21:12:51 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@242.Red-83-49-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:12:57 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 21:13:28 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 21:13:35 -!- jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:46 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has quit [Quit: ManAmongHippos] 21:13:48 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:14:18 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:14:19 abeaumont [~abeaumont@242.Red-83-49-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:34 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@host-57-26.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:15:02 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:15:11 sellout-: *nods* that was what I meant by 'destructuring'. Thanks! 21:15:34 Is there a way to make 3dim array using some 2dim array? When I use intial-contents it looks like #(#2A(1 2 3) #2A(1 2 3)). 21:17:07 (example is wrong, but you got the idea, right?) 21:18:32 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:18:53 #(#2A((1 2) (3 4)) #2A((1 2) (3 4))) here is more accurate one, if someone really cares. 21:20:58 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[aft] 21:21:42 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@host-57-26.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:23:06 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 21:23:17 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 21:23:37 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:24:02 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has joined #lisp 21:24:03 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.168] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25:32 karbak [~kar@122.sub-70-192-73.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:46 -!- sdemarre [~serge@8.65-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:27:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:49 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-115-250.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:27:50 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@87.244.76.226] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 21:28:09 Okay, I got it, my question is either stupid or I just used all my daily questions limit. 21:29:10 hitecnologys: you mean the 2d array as the :initial-contents? 21:29:26 Bike: yep 21:29:36 jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has joined #lisp 21:29:41 niki1 [~canaima@186.90.193.216] has joined #lisp 21:29:42 hitecnologys: no, in either event someone would tell you (probably rudely :)) 21:29:48 hitecnologys: did you come up with something that didn't involve converting to a list? 21:30:42 hola 21:30:58 fortitude: actually, I need to convert heights map to 3dim array and the only way I see is to build layers and then combine them. 21:31:11 hitecnologys: :initial-contents is supposed to be a sequence of sequences, which a 2-dim array isn't; maybe it would be easier to copy one into the other treating both as one-dimensional with row-major-aref 21:31:12 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:26 Am I using cl-cron properly, simple eg. (cl-cron:make-cron-job :function) (cl-cron:start-cron) 21:31:46 Bike: I've thought about r-m-a but it feels so wrong. 21:32:08 what's wrong about it? 21:32:22 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:44 Bike: idk, I just can't get used to work with arrays like with vectors ._. 21:32:51 -!- niki1 [~canaima@186.90.193.216] has left #lisp 21:32:54 ok 21:33:00 well, another way would be a displaced array, maybe 21:33:37 I read about them in clhs and I didn't really get what is it. 21:33:57 The only think I got is that they share contents, right? 21:34:02 yeah 21:34:08 but they can ahve different dimensions, length, etc 21:34:22 So, it's like normal pointer with benefits? 21:34:39 yeah, something like that. 21:34:46 -!- PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:35:22 sounds cool, I'll try both ways, thanks 21:35:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:53 but now I'd better go and have some sleep because I probably should just make easier algorithm for this task 21:37:13 goodbye everyone! 21:37:30 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.32.21] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 21:37:54 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 21:38:16 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:38:38 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:38:39 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:51 PuercoPop [~user@199.47.72.30] has joined #lisp 21:40:07 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest91244 21:41:41 -!- Guest91244 is now known as PuercoPop` 21:43:13 Am I using cl-cron properly, simple example. 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