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has joined #lisp 01:30:10 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@46.208.109.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:31:11 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:28 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:32:05 p_nathan1 [~Adium@rrcs-74-87-143-106.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:22 -!- davazp` [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:56 Lis [~Lis@p3E9E916C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:34:55 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 01:34:56 Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:24 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:35:42 tyrick [328fadf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.143.173.244] has joined #lisp 01:35:47 hey there 01:36:05 Anyone think they could help me out with a question about SLIME? 01:36:40 go ahead and ask. 01:36:58 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:38:21 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:39 Okay 01:38:45 I just installed in on Linux 01:39:06 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@rrcs-74-87-143-106.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:39:23 and seem to be having a problem 01:39:40 I basically wanted to get away from the REPL nature of the termal 01:40:18 so was hoping SLIME would help with that 01:40:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:37 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-63.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:39 so... basically I run into the following problems when it comes to evaluating simple functions 01:41:00 http://imgur.com/jzgc1mv 01:41:18 at first the function was (defun foo() 2) 01:41:37 then C-c C-p gave the result 2 01:41:56 so I changed the 2 to a 6 and attempted to evalute it again 01:42:04 and it seems to be stuck on 2?? 01:42:30 did you evaluate the new definition? 01:42:35 so I changed the function yet again to something a little more interesting.. (Making it a function of x) 01:42:36 http://imgur.com/QKiDSUW 01:42:50 hm.... that is what I seem to be missing.. how do I do that exactly? 01:43:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:45:12 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:47:54 wow 01:47:59 okay.... now I've got it actually 01:48:37 I think you just need to hover the cursor next to the function C-M-x 01:50:19 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:50:37 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:47 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-19-100.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:51:17 Is this common? 01:51:34 Everytime you change a function you have to re-evaluate? 01:52:41 well yes, you only edited a text file that might not even be saved on the hard drive. 01:55:22 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:36 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:53 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:10 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:40 -!- waglin is now known as skalawag 02:00:58 gotcha 02:01:07 so let's say I complete a program in this editor 02:01:14 how do you save it generally? 02:01:29 file->save as->? 02:01:36 foo.l? or foo.lisp? 02:01:41 <|3b|> .lisp 02:01:52 I'm wondering how a standard lisp script would look like 02:01:57 ahh 02:01:58 I see 02:02:39 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:02:50 I'm using sbcl, so it would be like sbcl foo.lisp? 02:03:24 <|3b|> you could, but that isn't what is usually done 02:03:26 where was .l used over .lisp historically? 02:04:28 what usually do you do? 02:04:51 I only saw one example where .l was used to name the new buffer 02:05:00 <|3b|> one common option is to just use the repl like a shell and work with things interactively there 02:05:08 ya... 02:05:31 I'm still shocked at that... I'm a coming from c++ and java 02:05:50 going to take me a while to like repl 02:06:06 <|3b|> or sometimes dump an image (which is a common way of creating an executable in the free CL implementations) containing an application if you need something to distribute 02:06:12 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:06:26 ahhh... image.. maybe that is what I want 02:06:42 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:59 <|3b|> once you get used to loading a bunch of data, try calling a function on it, change the function, call it again without reloading the data or restarting, etc, c++/java feels a lot more constraining :p 02:07:41 <|3b|> or write a function, test it interactively, fix it, test some more, write next function, etc instead of having to stop, recompile, reload, etc for every change 02:08:12 *|3b|* tends to not actually use the REPL directly most of the time though, just evaluate things directly in a .lisp buffer 02:08:47 fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-19-100.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:08:53 ya, I definitely see the value 02:10:07 so let's say I am using the repl, and I have defined a bunch of functions to the extent that I might have forgotten a few, how can I preview everything I have done so far? 02:10:11 |3b|: what's the key combo for that? 02:10:11 like a "show all" or something 02:10:13 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:11:23 slime-eval-defun and C-M-x? 02:12:17 <|3b|> aeth: for evaluating things in .lisp buffers? C-c C-c, C-M-x, C-x C-e (or C-u C-x C-e), etc 02:12:37 <|3b|> depending on what i want it to do 02:13:40 C-c C-k. 02:14:55 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:30 <|3b|> yeah, C-c C-k (and also with C-u prefix) is useful too, though not as much for the "test one thing" interactions i was thinking of 02:15:38 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 02:15:56 interesting. 02:16:05 -!- svs__ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:11 <|3b|> there is also C-c C-l, but i don't use that one as much 02:16:15 so far, the repl just seems to be a dark box you throw functions into... 02:16:37 need to know a way of listing/getting everything that has been defined 02:16:57 so far that has been the appeal of using slime for me 02:17:27 everything I have done is listed in a page 02:17:28 usually you'd put definitions in a file so you can edit and save them easily, and use interactive evaluation there like |3b| said. 02:18:20 the REPL is a useful calculator. 02:18:24 interesting 02:18:43 (/ (+ (* 87 183) 42) 6) 02:18:59 so you would load a function into the repl, then store the function in another file just for book keeping? 02:19:00 *|3b|* tends to use M-: when i want a calculator :p (though being elisp makes that a bit more annoying) 02:19:08 you'll get used to C-a and C-e a lot writing stuff like that from the inside out imo 02:19:28 <|3b|> tyrick: other way around, write the function in a file, then evaluate it there (or at worse paste it into repl) 02:19:30 then it's no problem 02:20:10 just write the first part, C-a, write the prefix, C-e, write the rest, and so on. 02:20:38 yes, here postfix would do better than prefix imo 02:20:59 <|3b|> then maybe interact with the newly defined function in the repl to test it 02:21:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-207-21.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:22:05 <|3b|> once you have a whole file of functions, you can either evaluate them all at once from slime with C-c C-k, or LOAD the file from the REPL 02:22:06 |3b|: why M-: for the calculator if the slime repl is open in another buffer? 02:22:46 <|3b|> aeth: i'd have to switch buffers? and M-: works in my irc emacs, or others that don't have slime repls running 02:23:32 ah 02:23:49 <|3b|> once you have multiple files of functions, or functions that depend on other libraries, you would usually make an 'asdf system' with a .asd file to control loading things in the proper order (and indirectly to allow quicklisp to download the external dependencies for you if it can) 02:25:45 <|3b|> aeth: if i have a lisp file open i'd be reasonably likely to just type the equation inline and evaluate it there though, then delete it 02:25:49 |3b|: the annoying par about elisp is (/ 5 3) does integer division instead of returning 5/3 like all schemes and common lisps I've tested, and even clojure! I'm going to guess probably islisp/openlisp too, but don't have it installed to test... 02:25:55 s/par/part 02:26:23 <|3b|> yeah, but i usually want (/ 5 3.0) in CL too, since i could figure out (/ 5 3) is 5/3 in my head :p 02:26:46 well, that's simple on purpose. 02:27:09 <|3b|> (and even for more complicated things where it would actually reduce it a bit, reducing to ###/### isn't any better than the (/ #### ####) i started with 02:27:28 examples are best parsed when the inefficient REPL in your head can parse them too :-P 02:28:25 *|3b|* 's point is that unless the integer division was exact, the fraction wasn't the answer i wanted anyway 02:28:29 obviously it could be more like (* (/ foo bar) (/ baz quux)) 02:28:50 (* (/ 6 4) (/ 4 9)) 02:28:53 How to you export an image? 02:29:30 <|3b|> usually called 'save' or 'dump' rather than 'export', and depends on the implementation 02:29:46 buildapp takes care of that for you. 02:30:38 |3b|: only because calculators tend to be written in blubs do we think in decimal exclusively :-P 02:31:26 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:32:14 <|3b|> dunno, i suspect any other base of floating point notation would be better than trying to judge relative magnitude of 2 large relatively prime numbers 02:33:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.183.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:33:42 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-206-225.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:57 <|3b|> or worse, multiple pairs of relatively prime numbers 02:34:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-233-99.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:34:24 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:34:42 nice... saveinitmem in CLISP takes care of it with ease 02:34:57 this is really blowing me away that large scale applications are made this way 02:36:57 how do you load a file like, foo.lisp into the repl 02:37:27 |3b|: I like the elegant way Lisp and Scheme handle numbers. actually, I'm surprised r5rs credits this to CL. I thought CL was largely an attempt to harmonize existing dialects. 02:37:41 where the foo.lisp just contains a bunch of funtion definitions 02:37:59 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:38:02 C-c C-l, or (load ...) in the repl 02:38:11 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 02:38:22 nice 02:38:43 aeth: iirc CL's complexes are sort of based on older dialects and sort of based on APL, or something like that. The language-independent arithmetic standards nobody uses also credit CL. 02:40:19 language-independent arithmetic standards nobody uses? 02:40:35 <|3b|> aeth: yeah, i like having rationals there rather than doing integer division, just not usually what i want when doing interactive calculations 02:40:45 aeth: ISO/IEC 10967 02:41:09 I guess everything has a standard or proposed standard. 02:41:21 (even s-expressions, apparently.) 02:41:44 <|3b|> tyrick: note that LOAD doesn't compile the code in the file (except on implementations that always compile), so you might want C-c C-k or (load (compile-file ...)) instead 02:42:21 ya, I'm having trouble with this 02:42:28 I just have a file foo.lisp 02:42:38 it only has (defun foo() 69) in it 02:43:50 (load /home/tyrick/foo.lisp) doesn't seem to do it 02:44:04 use quote 02:44:11 k 02:44:13 <|3b|> (load "...") 02:44:38 beautiful 02:44:45 ok... this is perfect 02:45:00 tyrick, you are new to emacs, too? 02:45:39 <|3b|> (load /home/tyrick/foo.lisp) would try to get the name of the file to load from a variable named /home/tyrick/foo.lisp which probably doesn't exist 02:46:47 interesringly enough, guile/chibi-scheme/racket all return slightly different answers for (sqrt -1). in the common lisp world, sbcl/ecl disagree with clisp for (sqrt -1) 02:47:47 in cl, the issue seems to be #C(0.0 1.0) vs. #C(0 1) 02:48:02 Yeah, the sort of leeway there is the kind of inspiration I meant. 02:48:13 is there a way to have the repl return the full definition of a function that was previously defined? 02:48:26 like (returndef foo) 02:48:28 tyrick: nope. implementation doesn't have to keep it. 02:48:36 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.30.215] has joined #lisp 02:49:15 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:00 Don't you think feature would be benificial? 02:50:12 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:50:30 It would mean the implementation keeping a lot of source in memory, which I don't really need because I generally write definitions in files. 02:50:54 tyrick, there are other languages that do that. Such as Picolisp and ... Rebol ;) 02:51:07 (I brought tyrick here when e joined a Rebol room asking for SLIME help) 02:51:10 ahhh 02:51:13 hahahaha 02:51:14 Thanks!!! 02:51:26 lol... I'm finally getting this down Sgeo 02:52:01 But Common Lisp has other mechanisms, arguably being able to view a function's source programmatically can be problematic from certain perspectives 02:52:47 tyrick: Oh, and try (describe 'function-name-here). 02:52:50 Rebol? That sounds like vaguely something from the 80's 02:53:56 late 90's, open sourced now, iirc. Really neat stuff in the parser and the implementation (which probably explains why joe marshall worked on it) 02:54:30 '98, maybe snobol, was before 02:55:11 lol... thanks Bike 02:55:17 I guess it gave me some good info 02:55:30 It might give you source. I mean, there's no guarantee, but it could. 02:56:09 clhs f-l-e 02:56:09 function-lambda-expression: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 02:57:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:57:50 haha 02:58:03 okay... now, can you guys help me with the verbage of all this 02:58:14 do you actually say the letters in REPL? 02:58:25 like ar-ee-pee-el 02:58:38 or pronounce it like Repel or something 02:59:10 [repl] 02:59:27 well, /repl/ 02:59:28 reppl, for me. like ripple. 03:00:43 ok... so would I say "Load a lisp file into the repl"? to describe loading foo.lisp? 03:01:34 you could say 'at the repl' 03:01:42 k 03:01:48 because it is loaded into the lisp image 03:02:56 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:04:25 Thanks for everything so far guys 03:04:29 sry for being such a newb 03:04:42 -!- fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-124-121-19-100.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 03:04:44 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:04:47 the beginning is a good place to start 03:04:55 feels good to be getting some of this down tho 03:05:13 so, no need to be sorry, :) 03:13:06 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-142-109.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 03:13:17 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-142-109.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 03:13:17 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 03:16:48 gavilan2 [~Gavilan2@184.75.214.2] has joined #lisp 03:18:44 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:19 p_nathan1 [~Adium@w187202.wireless.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:42 ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:10 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:21:13 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:21:34 ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:46 joneshf-laptop 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[~user@24.Red-88-23-249.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:43:52 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:47:27 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 05:51:19 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 05:51:58 -!- vseloved [~user@24.Red-88-23-249.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:56:11 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has joined #lisp 05:59:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:02 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:02:56 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@198.sub-70-193-129.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 06:04:13 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:08:19 quazimodo [~quazimodo@60-241-248-205.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:09:23 ManAmongHippos_ [~ManAmongH@138.sub-70-193-128.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 06:09:34 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@198.sub-70-193-129.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:09:34 -!- ManAmongHippos_ is now known as ManAmongHippos 06:10:08 pjb`: http://report.quicklisp.org/com.informatimago/2013-06-04/failtail.txt -- several things that once worked don't 06:10:24 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 06:10:27 stepper and clext and lispdoc specifically 06:10:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:10:47 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:32 I'm trying to setup newLISP on Rockets, and when I run setup-rockets.lisp it gives me the error "ERR: user error : cannot find crypto library" Anyone have any idea how to fix this? 06:11:52 newlisp has its own channel, i think? 06:12:05 There are 2 people in it. 06:12:32 ManAmongHippos: I guess that amount says something about how many people use it 06:12:36 ManAmongHippos: not very strange 06:12:40 newlisp isn't very popular 06:12:52 newLISP is a bit weird, but it has a few interesting ideas in it. 06:13:19 I presume that there's probably a build option for crypto -- check the documentation. 06:13:38 Do you guys have any negative experiences with newlisp? I was just wanting to play with it. 06:13:58 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F121.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:09 -!- protist [~protist@236.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:14:36 ManAmongHippos: I never used it. I looked at it, however, and decided it wasn't worth my time. 06:15:17 loke_: it wasn't worth my time too :-D 06:16:06 Ioke_: Why not? xD 06:16:28 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 06:16:51 PicoLisp sounded interesting to me 06:17:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:18:59 nightfly: what's usage of picolisp ? 06:19:10 gmcastil [~user@70-59-29-55.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:59 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dc04.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:56 Didn't quite get that far into it. Was gonna use for little scripts where quick startup and small running size mattered. 06:22:54 Joreji [~thomas@79-054.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:25:48 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@138.sub-70-193-128.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:27:59 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:28:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:28:06 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 06:29:16 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@32.sub-70-193-66.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 06:30:05 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 06:30:06 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 06:30:06 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:30:31 mrSpec [~Spec@133.Red-83-57-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@133.Red-83-57-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:30:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined 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ZZZzzz] 07:51:47 pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has joined #lisp 07:55:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:57:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:58:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:58:49 rudi_ [~rudi@1x-193-157-241-188.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:00:16 -!- Lis [~Lis@p3E9E916C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:00:21 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 08:01:28 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-249-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:02:35 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:41 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dc04.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:48 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 08:05:11 Someone linked me to the TeX source for the CL standard at one point. I lost that link. Can anyone link me again? 08:05:28 google for dpans3 to get a few links 08:07:41 -!- astalla [~alexkidd@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:09:34 thanks Xach 08:15:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:16:19 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:57 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dc04.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 08:17:14 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: l'unica verità.. è la morte stessa!] 08:17:43 bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has joined #lisp 08:19:21 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:36 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:41 nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:14 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:22 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:34 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 08:30:54 is there any way for a (lambda () ...) to call itself recursively? 08:32:55 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-249-67.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:06 named-lambda 08:34:10 astalla [~alexkidd@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:18 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 08:35:25 protist [~protist@230.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:37:10 You can always pass it to itself. 08:37:33 Hurrah for the y-combinator, etc. 08:39:30 named-lambda, aka labels 08:40:39 interesting: git://repo.or.cz/parse-docstrings.git 08:42:39 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:42:52 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:43:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:45:36 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 08:46:41 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 08:46:41 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:48:40 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:42 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:49:43 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50:49 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:52:35 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:05 Xach (or anyone else): Is the dpans3 data files newer or older than the HyperSpec files on LW? 08:54:38 older 08:56:28 I'm going to try to re-parse the content of the TeX files 08:57:21 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-19-100.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 08:58:45 loke_: hmm.. how? 09:00:19 loke_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137452 --- silly stuff that i am playing with ... 09:01:26 zorkmoid: Well, first of all I need to ensure all the documentation is exported so some kind of structured format 09:01:48 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:01:52 loke_: dpans2texi might be helpful 09:02:13 the texi version is easier to parse? 09:02:23 yes ... 09:02:50 I'm inclined to think that structured documentation probably ought to be code. 09:03:11 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 09:03:25 loke_: it has a simple "syntax" ... 09:03:33 zorkmoid: I'll take a look. thanks 09:03:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0028ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:24 and i would agree with Zhivago .. though i might leave out the conept bits, the dictionary is the interesting for any work... 09:04:52 -!- arademaker [~user@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:59 zorkmoid: Right 09:05:44 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:05:48 loke_: git://repo.or.cz/parse-docstrings.git 09:05:53 kinda cute 09:06:23 what does it do? 09:06:46 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.173.103] has joined #lisp 09:06:46 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.173.103] has quit [Changing host] 09:06:46 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 09:07:01 loke_: adds extra info to docstrings ... so you just don't have the docstring, but also other stuff,w hich you can then generate a manual from ... 09:07:40 loke_: something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/137452#1 could be used as a conversion of the standard, to be later used for genertion of whatever. 09:09:20 OK, I can't clone that 09:09:37 connection reset by peer. Don't know if it's my jobs firewall or what. However, does it parse dpans? 09:09:39 try cloning it once or twice.. 09:09:50 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:10:08 had the same issue.. no clue, i just was looking for structtured docstrings :) 09:10:46 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:10:47 package hyperdoc not found. hmm 09:11:18 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 09:11:43 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 09:13:25 -!- scode [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:13:30 Hmm parse-docstrings. Does it mean that it should be doc-sexps instead of doc-strings? 09:13:43 scode [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has joined #lisp 09:16:03 (defun fact (n) (doc (function :description "Implements the factorial function.") (argument :name n :type (integer 0) :description "The maximum factor") (return :type (integer 0) :description "factorial n, ie the product of all integers from 1 to n")) (if (zerop n) 1 (* n (fact (1- n))))) 09:17:00 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-126-204.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:17:27 The macro doc could expand to a docstring for online browsing (documentation, describe, apropos), and defun could use it as a declaration to check the type of the arguments and results (and also we could include checked pre- and post-conditions), and other tools could process it directly without a need for parse-docstring. 09:18:13 -!- karswell [~user@87.112.161.139] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:18:53 (well only defun and others don't evaluate docstring positions: either it's a docstring or it's a body expression, so it would have to be a reader macro). 09:22:16 BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has joined #lisp 09:24:36 ogamita: (defdocfun n () ...) 09:25:01 Yes. 09:25:18 or shadowed defun. 09:29:06 or custom declarations 09:29:24 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:24 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:29:51 (declaim (declaration arguments return-type description)) 09:30:09 hey rudi 09:30:18 hi Krystof 09:31:41 you got a namecheck in Erik's ABCL talk 09:31:52 kewl 09:32:31 I was triple-overbooked last weekend, so couldn't come myself 09:34:59 pierpa [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:37:48 rudi: well, yes, we can also make it a declaration which allows to keep it in the same place without a macro or reader macro. The advantage of the macro or reader macro is that you can still expand to a string stored with (documentation  'function). 09:39:23 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 09:42:24 josemanuel [~josemanue@13.200.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:43:50 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:46 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:46:36 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:46:50 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:11 arademaker [~user@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:14 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:49:36 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:14 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 09:54:27 -!- whitelilis [~user@1.202.225.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:31 -!- bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:55:53 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:56:05 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 09:56:10 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:05 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:57:58 bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has joined #lisp 10:02:24 -!- dfox [~dfox@123.100.broadband11.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:55 -!- bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:05:41 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:51 -!- tyrick [328fadf4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.143.173.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:12:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:13:34 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:19 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:17:21 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:55 ogamita: well, the parse-docstring thing is just an macro that allows you to add more info about some object ... 10:18:06 but declarations could be cool... or doc-sexps 10:20:36 dfox [~dfox@123.100.broadband11.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:21:32 i kinda prefer the annotate-documentation & defdocfn thing since you can put the cruft somewhere else, useful if you have a fixed standard for something, then others can use it easily portably.. (hopefully) 10:21:52 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:22:51 ideally, it would be really cool and sweet to convert the hyperspec into some sort of code that one can use for either tests, asertions, or docstrings.. 10:23:14 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-75.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:30 There was a machine for that 10:23:42 His name was pfdietz :~( 10:23:56 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:37 are you thinking of the ansi tests suite? 10:26:03 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:14 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-221-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:27:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:27:46 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:28:15 bitonic [~user@dyn1222-168.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:30:09 come back, pfdietz! 10:30:13 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-221-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:31:32 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:32:21 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:37:16 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:36 maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 10:46:49 hehe 10:47:14 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:48:23 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:20 -!- vseloved [~user@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:34 vseloved [~user@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:23 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:02 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:53:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:09 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:54:28 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 10:57:37 what is he doing nowadays? 10:57:42 pfdietz that is.. 10:57:49 Thra11 [~Thra11@46.208.109.51] has joined #lisp 10:58:48 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-60-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:49 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:58:50 -!- Adeonicorn is now known as Adeonasus 11:00:38 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 11:01:40 I modified a function's signature at its definition, but didn't 11:01:41 change its argument at one of the call sites. Everything built 11:01:41 fine, but I got a runtime error (SBCL), which would have been a 11:01:41 lot less confusing if it had said something like: " 11:01:41 expected, but you passed in a instead". Is there any 11:01:43 way of doing some sort of error checking so that such type errors 11:02:10 are caught in an easier way? 11:02:22 write tests, or assertions .. 11:02:41 (typep <'type>) > 11:02:42 ? 11:03:00 check-typ 11:03:02 e 11:03:51 nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 11:07:18 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:07:38 beaumonta [~abeaumont@10.Red-79-155-171.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:06 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:08:19 I'm looking at the clhs now. There aren't any examples for user-defined classes 11:09:10 love Krystof's running commentary on twitter - but is there an irc channel where everyone hangs out and is snarky? 11:09:30 (talking about els / eclm) 11:09:47 say I have an object called foo and I want to check if it is an instance of bar class 11:10:03 (check-type foo 'bar) isn't working 11:10:08 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@62.Red-79-152-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:11:07 rudi: there seems to be an #eclm 11:11:35 also, what's Krystof's twitter account? :) 11:11:43 ascii18 11:11:44 -!- arademaker [~user@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:11:49 ascii19 11:11:52 @ascii19 11:12:25 *rudi* looks it up, groans 11:13:38 he's not yet reached inception-level punnage, but that one's three layers deep already 11:15:12 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:38 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 11:15:38 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 11:15:38 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:16:03 samebchase: what does "is not working" mean? 11:19:11 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:26 I tried (check-type foo ) and it gave me an error when foo was a constant. It returns NIL when foo is a variable 11:20:28 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:20:54 samebchase: yes? 11:21:17 So, I can't check-type on constants? 11:21:23 ofcourse you can 11:23:31 rudi: #eclm 11:24:56 samebchase: if you look at the clhs entry you'll see it needs a place 11:33:57 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:04 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 11:35:05 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:35:29 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:58 is there any way of "creating" a place for a constant 11:37:16 What does that "mean"? 11:37:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:39:09 samebchase: defconstant will define a global and grant permission to the compiler to consider it a constant; with the result that you'll tend to get warnings if you redefine it's value. There is no analogous way to declare that a lexical variable is constant. 11:40:21 defconstant is also probably closer to #define than what you're thinking. 11:40:47 It essentially allows the compiler to paste the value instead of the name, if it feels like it. 11:41:11 or even precompute things at compile time 11:42:23 I've tried (check-type ) and it worked, but (check-type ) doesn't work 11:42:54 What surprising thing happens? 11:43:59 I'm geting an error saying ++ is a constant and can't be set 11:44:01 samebchase: try macroexpanding a check-type form. 11:44:25 okay 11:44:31 Why do you think that check-type is setting it? 11:44:32 samebchase: that, together with the spec saying that a check-type expects a place as its first argument, should make it clear enough. 11:45:00 samebchase: for additional clues, look at the restarts offered when you specify a variable to check-type. 11:45:14 That might be an uninformative error message. :) 11:45:17 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-60-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:23 samebchase: why would you want to check-type a constant anyways? 11:45:30 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 11:45:41 Zhivago: he's using sbcl, which offers a "useful" restart 11:45:48 It's trying to setf it in the expansion. Hmm. 11:46:14 I want to make sure that a function is only passed an argument of a certain type 11:46:31 samebchase: how would the argument be constant? 11:46:57 Sounds like you're trying to shadow a constant. 11:47:55 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:48:58 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:50:00 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:50:26 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 11:50:59 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 11:51:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137455 <- some context 11:52:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:10 samebchase: put (check-type pode pode) into the function, then call it with +blog-pode+ as argument and things will be fine 11:53:24 aha 11:53:29 I'll try that 11:53:47 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-60-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:53:54 check-type checks the type of a variable, not the type of a value. 11:56:25 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:56:34 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: Holy crap, time to go to work.] 11:56:39 Another question is, normally when something wrong is typed at the REPL, I get some restarts, but there it says "error", but still NIL is returned 11:57:28 "caught error condition" 11:59:01 *bhyde* suspects that "caught error condition" was printed by code in the with-existing-pod-slots macro 11:59:31 oh. 12:00:11 that macro is basically with-accessors and some asserts 12:01:03 actually, those errors were from the REPL, not from a call of that function 12:01:35 H4ns: thanks. I'm getting helpful error messages now. 12:03:18 progress. 12:06:32 forms that provide for continuable errors are only useful in code that will be used interactively; you might be happier avoiding them at first; and then adopt them later when your more comfortable with the idea of working on code that can error, be fixed interactively, and then proceed. 12:06:54 nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 12:07:10 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:36 continuable errors can be invoked from within the program as well 12:09:01 "can't open ~/.foo? ok, try /etc/foo instead" 12:09:18 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:07 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-11-31.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:11:02 rudi - sure, absolutely, very useful  but no reason why a beginner needs to get into that asap, and meanwhile have you ever seen code that invoked the restarts provided by the build-in continuable error forms, check-type, cerror, etc? I haven't. 12:11:20 I wrote some yesterday 12:11:30 bhyde: but why avoid something that provides restarts? 12:12:26 In fact my code was even more devious: it stashed away the current abort restart, and bound a new one (but giving code the opportunity to abort to a restart which would normally be shadowed). Muhahah 12:13:32 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:14:23 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 12:15:47 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 12:16:56 i love restarts 12:16:58 carbocalm [~user@216-58-38-58.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:59 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1222-168.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:16 i think there value, when learning the language, following some paths vs other climbing the learning curve. 12:18:24 bitonic [~user@dyn1222-168.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:18:26 -!- ckoch786 [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:18:46 otherwise the language comes at you like a tsunami 12:18:47 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.56] has joined #lisp 12:19:18 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:20:07 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 12:20:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:20:28 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:41 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 12:22:05 Krystof: did your code actually invoke the restarts provided by cerror etc? (which I've not seen and is hard to do portably), or was it invoking a restart you defined yourself (which I've seen and done occationally)? 12:23:18 ah, well, portable I don't have to worry about 12:25:25 carbocal` [~user@216-58-38-58.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:07 bitonic` [~user@wavelan25-147.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:27:13 -!- carbocalm [~user@216-58-38-58.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:27:20 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:52 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:23 H4ns asked "why avoid something that provides restarts"  if your going to use them in production code then you need to have a well crafted top level which preempts having the running system end up in the debugger  but you'll need that anyway eh?  that well crafted scheme and how to play well with it tends to be a project coding convention. another reason I advise beginners to wait is how is a beginner supposed to know how to get th 12:28:23 conventions right? 12:28:53 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1222-168.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:13 *bhyde* gotta go buy milk :) 12:29:47 bhyde: i don't understand why you advise against functions providing restarts nevertheless. in your production app, you need a way to deal with errors, no matter what restarts are available. it is not the restarts that create the necessity. 12:31:14 bhyde: fwiw i have production code which does invoke restarts. 12:31:22 nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 12:31:28 not often, but when needed it works really really well. 12:32:22 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:22 segv-, or it seems it work? How you can know if it work, test all possible cases? 12:33:00 rszeno: yes, i test it by running it with the network turned off, the db turned off, the file system set read only, etc. 12:33:10 just like i'd test anything else. 12:33:37 (though, and i'm really really lucky in this regard, i don't actually have to write those tests (and i probably wouldn't if i did...)) 12:33:37 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:34:21 but that's more of a question of me being bad at really finishing things; i tend to stop when it gets boring.... 12:35:46 hm, should probably test when the file system has no free space either... 12:35:51 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-64.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:06 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 12:38:25 we can't imagine and prevent anything and i failed many times trying to simplify complex things, :) 12:40:19 rszeno: we can't image and prevent everything, no. but this doesn't mean that restarts aren't are useful tool when deciding which, of many equally valid, ways to deal with an error we should take. 12:40:38 and we certainly can image and prevent the vast majority of the errors that occur. 12:40:43 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 12:40:45 finaly is a matter of costs. imo makeing things to crush as soon as possible is a way to aboid future problems and learn new things 12:41:30 segv-, true, this is what i try to say, :) 12:41:31 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:43:02 rszeno: ok. 12:43:29 rszeno: the other way to appraoch is the erlang way ... let it crash and burn. 12:44:44 zorkmoid: the important part about the erlang way is that crashing can be confined to processes and detected. 12:44:49 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:51 i like erlang in general, except maybe its syntax 12:45:03 wow, defstruct with :type list is awesome 12:45:10 just saying 12:45:12 zorkmoid: that is the erlang way only in a very limited sense. erlang applications, as opposed to single erlang processes, tend to have great (and often very complex) error handling 12:45:29 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:45:42 H4ns: what, you don't like cadddr? :) 12:46:23 :) 12:46:57 segv-: not a single bit, no. that defstruct option is really convenient for me right now :) 12:47:28 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:49:07 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@60-241-248-205.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:49:36 -!- Shozan is now known as SHODAN 12:56:33 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:57:10 nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 12:57:17 *bhyde* got milk 12:57:58 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 12:57:59 i've changed my mind  i guess i don't have a problem with beginners using cerror, check-type, etc.  it's just that they haven't ever made me particularly happy 12:58:29 i.e. hand modifying a place so i can proceed isn't a habit i find useful 12:59:12 meanwhile I'm still comfortable saying that a beginner should defer becoming fluent in restarts et. al. until he's got other things under control 12:59:28 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:03 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 13:00:26 and to reaffirm, i love restarts and I use them; but i use lots of things i wouldn't advise for a beginner. 13:01:46 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:04:43 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 13:05:13 agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:31 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 13:10:49 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:12:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:12:26 arademaker [~user@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:47 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:13:50 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:12 What would be a fast data structure with queue semantics for buffering messages to be sent through a socket? 13:14:29 zolk3ri1 [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:14:35 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:14:39 Is SB-CONCURRENCY:QUEUE appropriate? 13:17:18 -!- carbocal` [~user@216-58-38-58.cpe.distributel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:39 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:17:41 carbocal` [~user@216-58-38-58.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:49 -!- _if_ [~if@94-76-243-32.static.as29550.net] has quit [] 13:23:52 _if [~if@94-76-243-32.static.as29550.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:24 Kenjin: yes 13:26:52 though much faster techniques are possible if you can handle some out of order ness. 13:27:43 there's also chanl and the queue struct in lparralel if you want something portable 13:27:54 How much? :P I've been using it and am seeing some message build up 13:27:56 ferada_: ping 13:28:22 Kenjin: why do you need a concurrent queue? 13:29:04 unless you actually need to feed it from multiple threads, you're better off with a small, simple queue that feeds a regular socket. 13:29:13 I generate messages in one thread and process incoming messages in another 13:29:53 and you can't write to the socket directly and let the kernel deal with it? 13:30:08 incoming messages that are to be forwarded also go in the queue 13:30:30 mrSpec [~Spec@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:30:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:30:44 Kenjin: it's really hard to say how much faster, or why you're seeing build up without knowing way more about the code than (i at least) can understand over irc. 13:31:38 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:53 segv-: understandable. Basically just a bunch of UDP datagrams from a routing protocol going around. Each "node" generates and processes several messages. 13:32:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:52 the generated messages are on a timer, the processed messages are incoming from other machines that might be forwarded 13:32:56 Kenjin: depending on how much time you can sink into this, zeromq was made for stuff like this and common lisp bindings 13:33:00 and has 13:33:13 Kenjin: reducing the number of messages can also help. 13:33:30 you can, for example, throttle them and send them in single bigger packages. 13:33:47 Kenjin: if you don't need to process the messages in order a thread-safe hash table is much faster than a queue (in my, limited, experience) 13:33:52 -!- _if [~if@94-76-243-32.static.as29550.net] has quit [] 13:34:41 but, just to answer your question, sb-concurrency:queue is a good thread safe queue. 13:34:53 segv-: yeah, the order is not critical 13:35:10 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: Learning in what context certain attitudes are acceptable can make you a better person. For example, IRCing at work is only acceptable when your boss is not around looking.] 13:35:10 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:44 segv-: That was my notion. But am trying to figure out what is causing this build up. It seems the messages are not dequeued as fast as I'd like. 13:35:50 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:36:47 sykopomp: throttling might help, but I don't think 1 msg every 2 secs should be overkill 13:37:01 lots of protocols use periodic broadcasting 13:37:08 Kenjin: the reader might very well be the culprit here. 13:37:26 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0028ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:37:39 *specially* if you're building up messages at that speed. 13:37:39 Kenjin: you could also try sb-concurrency:mailbox, since it'll use a semaphore to signal the availabality of new messages you (just maybe) have less busy-waiting on the consumer side 13:38:06 that's what chanl does, yeah 13:38:18 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:38:29 yeah, chanl would be really at this too. 13:38:37 I can see the messages getting in the queue fine. What is not looking so good is the dequeuing 13:38:56 so it's time to look at your code :) 13:39:01 yeah :) 13:39:06 Kenjin: how does the dequeing work? 13:39:06 (as in, go debug that reader) 13:39:20 Kenjin: is this for your game, btw? 13:39:21 sykopomp: by the reader you mean, who's dequeuing 13:39:23 how do you tell your reader that there's work to be done? 13:39:28 Kenjin: yes 13:41:17 segv-: pretty naive approach https://gist.github.com/jsmpereira/059e29a805d306332d09 13:41:50 Kenjin: that loop is going to spin at 100% cpu 13:42:20 a really stupid test, add a (sleep 0.05) in there and see if your 1 msg / 2 secs goes up to 4 msgs / 2 secs or something 13:42:27 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.35] has joined #lisp 13:42:28 (there being somewhere in the lop) 13:42:44 (not inside the when though) 13:43:01 actually, no. just swap out the queue for a mailbox now. 13:43:06 you're going to do it evenutally.... 13:43:07 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:43:31 segv-: ok ) 13:43:33 and the api is really similar 13:43:38 Kenjin: I may have some sample code for you. 13:43:41 *sykopomp* looks 13:44:11 sykopomp: not for my game no :P It's for my Mc 13:44:15 MSc 13:44:51 mm, I guess my code doesn't help that much. 13:45:03 I managed to convince my teacher to let me use Common Lisp to implement a routing protocol for mobile ad-hoc networks. 13:45:07 I have some code using iolib to trigger a read off a wrapped socket's buffer. 13:45:09 that was a mouthful :p 13:45:30 Kenjin: nais 13:45:41 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.250.148] has joined #lisp 13:46:02 Greetings! 13:47:02 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:47:20 Kenjin: hm, if that's what you're doing (so that would make this only the start of your message-passing/queing journey), i would suggest looking at zeromq (or something similar) 13:47:23 sykopomp: I can't parse that sentence 13:47:35 fe[nl]ix: which one. 13:47:42 it'll save you from a lot of the lower level details/bugs and you can focus on making your routing code interesting 13:47:45 "I have some code ..." 13:48:30 segv-: I'm hoping at this point that my routing code is already interesting, since I'm due to deliver in a month's time lol. 13:48:34 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-64.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 13:48:42 Just ironing out some bottlenecks for testing :) 13:48:48 fe[nl]ix: I have code that wraps iolib with its own socket abstraction, which has its own buffer, and I use iolib's ready-for-read event to maybe process the input when I get it. 13:48:51 fe[nl]ix: better? 13:49:21 yes 13:49:23 but why ? 13:49:57 why what? Why wrap iolib? 13:50:05 yes 13:50:09 because of reasons. 13:50:27 RobBlackwell [~user@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:28 such as ? 13:50:40 fe[nl]ix: https://github.com/sykopomp/conserv 13:50:42 segv-: I've picked up SB-CONCURRENCY:QUEUE because I'm writing from 2 diff threads. After that I would like the fastest way to get stuff of the queue and out the socket :p 13:50:54 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:05 -!- Grizzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-409-132.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:51:20 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:43 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 13:51:46 RobBlackwell: hi there 13:51:50 segv-: I'll look into mailbox and zeromq 13:51:53 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 13:52:19 -!- arademaker [~user@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:52:34 fe[nl]ix: basically presenting a different api, different error handling, encoding things, etc. 13:53:39 I can't even remember all the reasons at this point, and I remember there being some reason why I wasn't letting iolib handle the buffering alone. Possibly something to do with the api's needs rather than anything wrong with iolib's buffering. 13:54:16 I understand very well how an async library needs custonm buffering compared to gray streams 13:54:40 but it would be good to have that in iolib itself 13:55:35 Grizzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-286-70.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:00:06 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:00:32 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:01:43 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:27 nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 14:03:47 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:01 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 14:10:00 -!- killsto [~killian@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:51 Kenjin: the major difference between the queue and the mailbox is that the mailbox, at the cost of an extra semaphore, will wait (and not do anything) if the "queue" is empty. 14:11:13 a mailbox, even at the implementation level, is just a queue plus an efficent 'wait for input' function. 14:11:42 without that you have to busy wait, so, maybe, you're stealing cpu cycles from your reader threads. which, possibly, could explain the lower througput 14:12:03 -!- RobBlackwell [~user@195.Red-88-5-174.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:12:04 segv-: I just found a (sleep) where there shouldn't be one, looking like the major cause of the behaviour I was seeing 14:12:19 that could exlain it too :) 14:12:25 Still the mailbox makes very much sense :) 14:13:14 tyrick [~tyrick@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:34 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:13:43 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:13:44 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:50 When you have a bunch of timers, some of which produce messages, plus incoming messages on the socket. A well placed (not) (sleep) will really mix things up :P 14:14:05 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:37 -!- tyrick [~tyrick@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:15:45 tyrick [~tyrick@c-50-143-173-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:43 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:18:01 -!- raskel [~raskel@camine1-3.ucv.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:31 raskel [~raskel@camine1-3.ucv.ro] has joined #lisp 14:19:48 segv-, sykopomp thanks for the feedback 14:20:02 np. Good luck. 14:20:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:40 sykopomp: sorry offtopic. Practice yesterday? :p 14:21:02 Kenjin: -> #lispgames 14:21:07 :) 14:21:29 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:46 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:30 killsto [~killian@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:24 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:44 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:25 Does anyone know anything about the dialect Arc? and what is was supposed to improve? 14:31:45 tyrick: arc is off topic in this channel. arclanguage.org i think. 14:32:13 ah, is this channel for CL only? 14:32:17 tyrick: yes. 14:32:18 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 14:32:19 tyrick: basically 14:32:22 gotcha 14:32:53 tyrick: CL is the only one that keeps strongly to "lisp" in name and happens to have bigger following 14:32:58 *also 14:33:35 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:35:26 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@student-247-59.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:43 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:05 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:37 aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 14:42:22 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:24 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:32 Is it possible to do something like this (make-array (list 4) ...) (vector-push-extend 1) (vector-push-extend 2) => #(1 2 some-default-value some-default-value) or I should use counter and then setf element by element until I run out of things to push? 14:44:06 I just need to get fixed-lengthed array but actual data length may vary. 14:44:11 hitecnologys: why vector-push-extend then? 14:44:21 hitecnologys: :initial-element to make-array maybe? 14:45:00 H4ns: and how then I can overwrite elements? 14:45:18 hitecnologys: (setf (aref array index) foo) 14:45:32 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-241-188.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 14:45:56 hitecnologys: you can use make-array with a fill-pointer 14:45:57 hitecnologys: you can also use a fill-pointer and vector-push, and then set the fill-pointer to the full size at the end. 14:45:58 H4ns: that's exactly what I do, I was just curious if there another way to do this. Thanks. 14:46:01 hitecnologys: and... yeah 14:46:11 what H4ns said :p 14:46:51 Here is the code: https://github.com/HiTECNOLOGYs/JAMS/blob/develop/src/types.lisp#L52 14:47:24 I tried fill-pointer, it still doesn't append 0 if length of data is less 14:48:42 hitecnologys: you can set the initial-element to 0, and then you can set the fill pointer to the end of data once you're done pushing 14:48:49 and that will pad the end with 0s 14:50:02 dlowe: like this: (make-array (list 4) :initial-element 0) ...pushing... (setf (fill-pointer array) 0)? 14:50:49 more like 4 in the end 14:50:57 I don't really get what actually fill-pointer does. =P 14:51:06 (make-array (list 4) :initial-element 0 :fill-pointer 0) .. pushing .. (setf (fill-pointer array) 4) 14:51:14 it does two things 14:51:15 hitecnologys: it is not a secret 14:51:32 it truncates the apparent length of a vector 14:51:42 and it acts as a place for vector-push to stick things 14:52:11 Oh, it's so easy. 14:52:20 Thank you a lot, guys. 14:52:59 I really disliked that piece of code but I didn't know how to get rid of it. 14:53:01 chameco [~samuel@rrcs-184-74-46-48.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:39 I think I'm having trouble with slime 14:53:49 p_nathan1 [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 14:53:54 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.137] has joined #lisp 14:54:32 after editing functions, or playing around in the edit, I seem to not be able to eval anything 14:55:11 I happens to me occasionally, I just usually restart it. 14:55:15 right now, the only thing I have in the editor is (defun foo() 3) (foo) 14:55:24 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:55:53 and I am getting the same "The variable A is unbound." screen when I try eval 14:56:04 hm.... well, sadly it seems to be happening to me regularly 14:56:24 like after 1 minute of editing no matter how many times I restart 14:56:40 I was hoping there was something I just wasn't understanding =/ 14:56:42 tyrick: what do you mean by "try eval"? 14:56:50 tyrick: there must be something. There's no A in there 14:56:57 C-c C-p 14:56:57 tyrick: i have no problems of that sort and i use slime all day 14:57:30 place my cursor next to (foo) and type C-c C-p 14:57:34 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:42 try C-c C-e 14:57:44 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:57:44 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 14:58:01 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 14:58:24 "C-c C-p runs the command slime-pprint-eval-last-expression" ? 14:58:42 hm... nothing happened but "Slime Eval:" appeared in the lower region of the editor 14:59:01 appears to want an input 14:59:12 type (foo) :D 14:59:18 Sorry, I actually meant C-x C-e 14:59:40 why not C-M-x? 14:59:58 Look at the point (cursor) too, when executing commands 15:00:08 to avoid Emacs Stress Injuriy 15:00:40 well, not having to move to the end of the expression before evaluating it counts as "less injury" to me 15:01:35 tyrick: I believe C-c C-p pretty prints the last expression evaluated, instead of evaluating the expression before point 15:01:39 heh... okay... now I am getting "The variable FO is unbound" 15:01:56 tyrick: C-M-x will work for you then 15:03:02 hm.. none of these seem to work 15:03:31 [Condition of type UNBOUND-VARIABLE] 15:04:47 Works fine here. Look at the point, it must be after the form you want to evaluate. i.e. after the closing parenthesis. 15:05:57 tyrick: did you C-c C-c on the function definition first? 15:06:13 lisp isn't line-oriented, so just having them on the same line won't combine the expressions 15:06:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:06:28 http://imgur.com/0b63i9Y 15:06:32 dlowe: unbound-variable happens because the point is on the last o in foo, rather than (foo)^ here 15:07:37 Yea, when I C-c C-c the line has a yellow flicker 15:07:42 pkhuong: right. C-M-x should discover the range of the expression 15:08:04 C-c C-p doesn't, because it's not meant only for definitions. 15:08:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:08:53 tyrick: just go to the end of the second line and hit C-x C-e 15:08:58 tyrick: move the point to just after the closing parenthesis in (foo), and then C-c C-p. 15:10:28 ... nothing at all 15:10:46 I seriously think this thing is frozen 15:11:03 it should show up in the message buffer at the bottom 15:11:13 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:11:16 hi 15:11:16 ya... the buffer is still mentioning FO 15:11:17 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 15:11:18 lol... 15:11:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11:27 it's as if the message buffer never updates 15:11:27 nooo.. the very bottom. 15:11:30 oh 15:11:45 tyrick: you have to handle that error first. 15:12:10 Ahh, how do I do that? 15:12:18 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:11 maybe that is my problem 15:13:26 once I get an error, I don't know how to move on from there 15:13:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:57 Hans_ [~weechat@115.132.134.4] has joined #lisp 15:14:01 Click on the buffer with the error, and you can choose restarts. 0 is what you want. 15:14:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:14:19 ahh 15:14:34 I didn't realize how interactive those messages where 15:14:36 and you have ten more behind, it seems. 15:14:47 I thought it was just a simple console for viewing 15:14:51 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:17:08 ikki [~ikki@177.224.214.137] has joined #lisp 15:17:42 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-95-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:51 Okay, I think I can finally start learning some Lisp 15:19:14 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 15:19:23 what are you using to learn, may I ask? 15:19:32 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:19:55 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:20:35 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:28 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-zuqtohszsegsjbxu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:23:55 I have a copy of Land of Lisp 15:24:09 but am open to any recommendations at this point 15:24:18 minion: please tell tyrick about PCL 15:24:18 tyrick: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:24:27 though Land of Lisp is not a bad book 15:24:45 land of lisp is a great book 15:24:47 :p 15:25:29 Hans_: I guess I picked a bit of britishism ;) 15:25:33 (http://imgur.com/eyJNd) 15:25:49 p_l: too british ? 15:26:33 Hans_: spent ~4 years there, and looking at possible permanent emmigration... so :) 15:27:06 Poland gets a bit too hot politically for me anyway (or at least stressful) 15:27:26 p_l: okay..... 15:27:42 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:27:43 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 15:28:40 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:06 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:02 bananagram [~bot@67.226.100.84] has joined #lisp 15:33:57 -!- chameco [~samuel@rrcs-184-74-46-48.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:34:43 poland cannot into space? 15:34:55 don't you guys all have euro visas and can travel freely 15:35:49 Not the Russians (; 15:38:36 lol I can't stop browsing r/polandball now http://i.imgur.com/nCPiDd7.png 15:39:00 -!- Hans_ is now known as zypeh 15:40:00 PCL is good... everything I just had problems with was answered and addressed in the first section 15:40:04 >.< 15:40:12 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 15:40:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.182] has joined #lisp 15:40:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.182] has quit [Changing host] 15:40:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:40:43 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:40:45 -!- gavilan2 [~Gavilan2@184.75.214.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:40:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.214.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:41:00 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:44:26 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:00 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:46:07 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:46:50 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 15:48:19 arademaker [~user@232.Red-80-33-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:48 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 15:50:19 -!- agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:42 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@24.37.239.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:58 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 15:55:30 -!- vseloved [~user@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:09 hagish [~hagish@host-88-217-174-111.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:18 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:22 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 15:58:48 ikki [~ikki@187.208.190.115] has joined #lisp 16:02:55 -!- astalla [~alexkidd@79.Red-88-26-248.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 16:03:06 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:03:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:53 -!- arademaker [~user@232.Red-80-33-21.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 16:06:52 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:08:07 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.250.148] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:08:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.182] has joined #lisp 16:08:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.182] has quit [Changing host] 16:08:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:12:34 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:13:18 -!- bananagram [~bot@67.226.100.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:13:59 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:15 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 16:14:19 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:14:29 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 16:15:08 ejbs [~user@h-211-73.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:15:59 agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:13 -!- zypeh is now known as joker_ 16:17:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0028ab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:42 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.190.115] has joined #lisp 16:18:52 -!- joker_ is now known as DrProfZypeh 16:20:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:21:49 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan25-147.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:22:41 -!- scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 16:23:30 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.190.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:50 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:26:05 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.190.115] has joined #lisp 16:28:11 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:02 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:52 Where does slime save the buffers that are created? in linux 16:30:10 slime doesn't save buffers that are created 16:30:22 buffers != files in emacs 16:30:30 ah 16:30:50 so when it creates a new buffer... what is that? 16:31:30 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 16:31:31 its just in memory. Just text in the ram. 16:31:51 if you want to list the currently open buffers use C-x b 16:32:15 oi, does anyone knows how to list the slots of a class? I wan't see what slots does the readtable have 16:32:48 c2mop:class-slots 16:32:52 ahh.. that would explain why my code is gone after closing emacs >.< 16:33:04 tyrick, C-h i then type m and start typing emacs 16:33:13 tyrick: to save it use C-x C-s 16:33:16 READTABLE doesn't have any slots, as far as you should be concerned 16:33:52 stassats: and If I want to see how it treats whitespace? 16:34:41 how would you do that? 16:35:10 readtable doesn't implement the reader algorithm, it just stores some parameters 16:35:17 clhs get-macro-character 16:35:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_ma.htm 16:35:20 clhs g-d-m-c 16:35:20 get-dispatch-macro-character: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set__1.htm 16:36:08 -!- DrProfZypeh is now known as zypeh 16:36:20 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:22 -!- zypeh is now known as zypeh|away 16:36:44 so get-dispatch-macro-character! Thanks. Yeah I'm having some trouble with whitespace in this toy reader macro I'm trying to implement. Can't figure why it goes wrong. 16:37:04 did you make it terminating or not? 16:37:11 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:38:28 terminating? I didn't touch whitespace, I thought it would ignore it. 16:38:36 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 16:38:55 clhs set-macro-character 16:38:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_ma.htm 16:39:02 see non-terminating-p parameter 16:40:23 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:40:28 stassats: Will do: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/83b391280b25afb2f528 if you are interested/have the time. 16:42:42 i'm not really sure what's being done there 16:43:43 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 16:44:14 I'm tring to convert What's between ~ and ; into a List of strings separated by , 16:44:38 don't use the reader 16:45:01 PuercoPop: '|,| 16:45:11 it's trivial, faster and more safe to do it manually 16:45:22 -!- protist [~protist@230.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:45:24 stassats: it serves no practical application. The idea is learn a little more about the reader 16:46:37 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-088-068-156-089.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:46:59 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:04 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:47:04 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:47:16 (set-syntax-from-char #\, #\Space) '(a,2,3,4) => (A 2 3 4) 16:47:31 scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:48:26 ,clhs set-syntax-from-char 16:48:27 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:37 clhs s-s-f-c 16:48:37 set-syntax-from-char: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_sy.htm 16:49:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 16:50:30 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:34 but then it would still parse wrong the second case. ie. "Alejandro Toledo" would still be read as "Alejandro" "Toledo" 16:50:57 anyway, you wouldn't use the reader here 16:51:20 *PuercoPop* nods 16:51:30 even if you make it a reader macro 16:51:41 ~ would start reading and stop when it sees ; 16:51:57 splitting it however you like 16:52:55 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:53:43 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 16:54:00 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 16:55:13 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:55:16 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 16:55:29 that was the original plan but I got a comma-not-inside a backquote error. Althougth, now that you've showed me about set-syntax-from-char I could use that to prevent that! 16:55:46 no, it wouldn't matter 16:55:49 you would read it 16:55:52 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:04 read as in, READ-CHAR, not READ 16:56:24 I've been using read instead of reach-char 16:56:39 that's where your mistake lies 16:56:55 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:58:57 hmm I appear to have hung up the repl 16:59:02 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-95-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:59:05 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 16:59:30 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:00:06 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.190.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.190.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:00:39 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 17:00:50 Is there a way to reverse the state of a program in repl? 17:01:08 like if I push a list into a variable, undo it 17:01:56 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:02:06 tyrick: restart it 17:02:37 Well, I was thinking of just going back one or two steps instead of starting over from scratch 17:03:11 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:03:44 tyrick: well you can always use load-file (C-c C-l I think) to "reset" to a baseline 17:03:48 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 17:04:37 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04:51 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 17:04:55 gotcha. not a big deal, was just curious 17:05:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:05:11 PuercoPop: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/83b391280b25afb2f528#comment-840227 17:05:37 bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has joined #lisp 17:05:40 Also, this might just be an aspect of functional programming, but how do you order the execution of program so that it runs line by line 17:06:02 I'm noticing that I am just pointing my cursor to various parts of the code and then eval 17:06:17 ... but there isn't really an order to the flow of the program 17:06:26 do you generally make a main function? 17:06:30 sure 17:06:31 and just execute that? 17:06:35 (defun my-program () ...) 17:06:39 ahh 17:06:41 gotcha 17:06:47 i have 5 main functions 17:06:56 stassats: awesome thank you for your time, I'll study it! 17:07:56 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 17:10:57 rszeno [~rszeno@86.125.230.236] has joined #lisp 17:13:14 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.137] has joined #lisp 17:14:09 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:14:44 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:02 namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:39 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 17:18:18 hi 17:18:31 how can I coerce a double float to a 16 bit integer? 17:19:55 Posterdati: (floor my-float) 17:20:33 or do you mean "take this memory location considered a double float and reinterpret it as an integer"? 17:21:09 only 16-bit is not enough for either usually 17:21:56 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:35 as long as it's < 65535, I don't see a problem with FLOOR 17:22:57 I'm printing a grid object, created with (grid:make-foreign-array '(unsigned-byte 8) ... 17:24:31 array elements are printed with (format t "~(~4,'0x~) " (grid:aref data i)) 17:24:59 but I've got number like 0.0 234.0 230.5 17:26:51 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2d40.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:52 odd, since you appear to be declaring it as an array of octets 17:27:54 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:28:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:10 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:28:45 and it's a list of 16-bit values instead? 17:29:00 oops, got ~( with ~{ mixed 17:29:06 just 16-bit values 17:29:57 where? 17:30:06 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:30:22 you're printing 4 hexadecimal numbers, that's 16 bit 17:30:37 yes 17:30:41 I've got 0.0 17:30:49 you got where? 17:30:54 can you be less vague? 17:31:44 with format 17:33:03 so, the whole grid thing is irrelevant and you're asking how to print a floating point number without the decimal part? 17:33:28 dlowe already told you about floor 17:33:34 see also ROUND 17:33:39 see also CEILING 17:33:54 stassats: wait, I'm using floor, let's see the result... Please wait 17:33:56 and TRUNCATE 17:35:05 grid is double-float !!!!! 17:35:06 ikki [~ikki@187.208.202.130] has joined #lisp 17:35:09 strange! 17:35:43 Posterdati: ironically, there was a post today on HN that was about a $370 Million dollar bug caused by overflow when converting from a double to a 16-bit int in Ada 17:35:54 LOL 17:35:58 Posterdati: I think you are misdiagnosing the issue 17:37:06 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 17:37:25 if we have arbitrary precision ints, why not the same for floats? 17:37:43 ehu: they're called "rationals" 17:37:58 ok. I guess that works. 17:38:07 e.g. 100000000000000000000000000000/100000000000000000000000000000001 17:38:17 clhs pi 17:38:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pi.htm 17:38:17 Posterdati, the grid stuff is not a key-value thing? maybe unsigned-byte is for keys and you print values? 17:38:19 now what? 17:38:41 ehu: if you want arbitrary precision irrationals, you'll need to use computable numbers 17:38:48 is there a implementation of Common Lisp embeddable in JS? 17:38:53 no 17:39:12 thanks 17:39:22 Denommus: no; there is parenscript though 17:39:25 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable086.239-37-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:39:32 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:39:37 there gotta be a gazillion of toy lisps 17:40:36 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:40:36 parenscript, gazelle, clojurescript 17:40:40 man, publishing toy lisps on /r/lisp shouldn't be allowed 17:40:41 no common lisp, though 17:41:15 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:21 parenscript isn't embeddable. it produces js output 17:41:22 it shouldn't be allowed anywhere 17:41:29 Denommus: https://github.com/davazp/jscl 17:41:29 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:41:43 everybody did a toy lisp once in his life. Even non-programmers 17:41:44 why the heck does asdf.lisp have "base: 10" in its emacs file-local variable section. 17:41:44 Denommus: not a cl. but a relative 17:41:55 just in case your emacs defaulted to base 8? 17:41:58 H4ns: thanks 17:42:10 ehu: similarly to CoffeeScript? 17:42:20 Denommus: very different design goals. 17:42:21 H4ns: "Most of the above features are incomplete" <-- from the readme 17:42:25 den 17:42:38 jasom: You cannot have arbitrary precision floats. How long would the mantissa be for 0.75 etc, sqrt(2), etc? 17:42:39 jasom: so? 17:42:42 Denommus: no idea. never heard of it 17:43:29 It would be nice to have a compiler to asm.js 17:43:42 I think getting an existing cl to compile to asm.js is probably the right approach too. 17:43:46 Ue: when did I say you could? 17:43:51 Denommus: Sure, it's just annoying when they let everyone see it though 17:44:12 Ue: and you can have a value that precisely represents e.g. sqrt(2) or pi 17:44:17 ejbs: that's my point ;) 17:44:35 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:02 the value that represents sqrt 2? (sqrt 2) when coding functionally :-P 17:45:50 aeth: yup 17:46:11 Ue: http://cliki.net/COMPUTABLE-REALS 17:46:15 jasom: Indeed, that is what many computer algebra systems do when they use recursive methods to computer some functions. They float is so accurate, they have a table and perform some tests to see if it looks like whatever is some number of pi. 17:46:53 jasom: as long as requested by the application? 17:47:23 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 17:47:40 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:05 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 17:48:22 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:48:27 foom: so that it works on genera or something similar 17:48:41 because, genera support is so important 17:48:51 jasom: That actually does not support what you are saying. 17:48:59 don't mind that it takes 3 seconds to load asdf.lisp 17:49:00 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 17:49:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:49:45 my connection dopped 17:49:51 s/dopped/dropped/ 17:50:47 technically, s/foo/bar is valid in (GNU) ed, if you want to drop the trailing slash. 17:50:52 MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@66-162-141-202.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:20 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:29 I don't use ed, nor vi. So I use s/foo/bar/ because of sed 17:51:54 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 17:52:11 damn, 0 for 2 on IRC on this point. :-/ 17:52:32 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-95-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:51 m7w_ [~chatzilla@178.172.214.35] has joined #lisp 17:53:03 -!- anaumov [~an@bane.agnitas.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:56 and no, I don't think anyone (willingly) uses ed anymore. especially for a language that uses s-expressions! 17:54:08 clhs ed 17:54:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ed.htm 17:54:15 it's in the standard! 17:54:17 maybe on a Lisp where ] stands for multiple )s 17:54:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:55:18 stassats: duh, the REPL should be any Lisp machine's shell-equivalent. 17:55:24 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:55:33 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has 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joined #lisp 18:08:04 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:08:04 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:04 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-245-243.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:08:05 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 18:08:09 copec_ [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 18:08:16 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 18:08:18 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:19 rszeno [~rszeno@86.125.230.236] has joined #lisp 18:08:25 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:08:34 pierpa` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:08:35 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:38 hmm, clisp supports (ed "foo.lisp"), sbcl does not, and ecl tries but fails to launch emacs -nw. 18:08:39 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:40 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 18:08:42 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:08:48 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 18:08:51 -!- raskel [~raskel@camine1-3.ucv.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:56 vsync_ [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:10 hpd [~hpd@v22010117464441099.yourvserver.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:11 raskel [~raskel@camine1-3.ucv.ro] has joined #lisp 18:09:37 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2d40.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:42 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:09:44 anaumov [~an@bane.agnitas.de] has joined #lisp 18:09:46 subtlepath [~walker@subtlepath.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:51 aeth: sbcl has sb-ext:*ed-functions* where you can put your hook 18:09:57 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:04 mutley89 [~mutley89@host31-54-196-149.range31-54.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:15 *stassats* is confusing by adeht and aeth nicks 18:10:33 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:36 confused 18:10:39 -!- aeth is now known as Aeth 18:10:43 there. 18:10:54 -!- cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-ggovbyshjkqtlvkv] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- wizard` [~user@eth900.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- spacebat [spacebat@50.56.189.236] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:54 -!- Xach 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quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:55 -!- mal_ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:55 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:55 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:10:59 ttm [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:03 -!- copec_ [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has left #lisp 18:11:06 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:11:07 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:11:08 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 18:11:10 stassats: just think (sort (copy-seq "death") #'char-lessp) when you see my nick 18:11:20 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:11:20 dropped 18:11:21 yeah, "think" 18:11:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 18:11:41 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:11:49 sykopomp 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quit [Client Quit] 18:16:34 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:17:09 jdz_ [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 18:17:12 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:15 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:30 rszeno1 [~rszeno@86.125.230.236] has joined #lisp 18:17:35 -!- rszeno1 [~rszeno@86.125.230.236] has quit [Client Quit] 18:18:07 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-avmepfguhnjevfsd] has joined #lisp 18:18:13 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 18:18:17 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:18:19 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 18:18:30 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 18:18:33 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 18:18:44 AntiSpamMeta_ [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 18:18:44 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit 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Broken pipe] 18:37:31 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:37:40 -!- ASau` [~user@p5797EA1A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:40 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:49 brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 m4dnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:04 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-177-66-41.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:04 -!- ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-avmepfguhnjevfsd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:05 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:05 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:05 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:19 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:38:19 -!- saeftl [cbauerm@pestilenz.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:38:19 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:38:19 -!- cYmen__ [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:38:19 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:38:19 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@146.6.53.132] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:38:19 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:38:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:38:20 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:25 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 18:38:34 aerique_ [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:38:37 samebcha1e [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:39 saeftl [~invisible@213.95.11.194] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 ineiros_ [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 18:38:53 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:39:10 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:39:20 ELLIOTTC1BLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 18:39:38 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 18:39:46 -!- otwierac1 is now known as otwieracz 18:39:48 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 18:39:49 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 18:39:52 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:55 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:59 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:01 anaumov_ [~an@bane.agnitas.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:16 -!- xristos is now known as Guest88237 18:40:23 When looking at (remove-if-not #'evenp '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)) 18:40:35 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:36 dlind_ [~dlind@h-184-111.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:40:36 -!- statl_ [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:36 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-95-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:36 -!- fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:37 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:37 -!- killsto [~killian@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:37 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c5c:7455:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:37 Subfusc_ [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:37 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:40:41 what is with the ' in front of the list? 18:40:43 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-njkqjansvoeporei] has joined #lisp 18:40:49 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:40:55 ejbs` [~user@h-211-73.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:40:56 fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:40:56 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-000-226.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:01 clhs quote 18:41:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_quote.htm 18:41:03 -!- vsync_ [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:41:04 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 18:41:04 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-000-226.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:41:04 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 18:41:06 -!- Trystam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:41:06 -!- deliciousrobots [~delicious@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:41:14 clhs ' 18:41:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dc.htm 18:41:27 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:41:31 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:31 Ue_ [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 18:41:49 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 18:41:54 ehu` [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:42:01 zypeh|away [~weechat@115.132.134.4] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:07 -!- s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:15 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:42:27 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:40 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:58 -!- mikaelj_ [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 243 seconds] 18:43:14 deliciousrobots [~delicious@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:17 tyrick: otherwise, the list will be interpreted as a call to 1, with arguments 2 3 4... 10. 18:43:24 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:43:33 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 18:43:34 SquidTamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 18:43:44 nalaginrut_ [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has joined #lisp 18:43:45 killian [~killian@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:49 asedeno_ [asedeno@nat/google/x-ayodyzbmrwexcbpp] has joined #lisp 18:43:54 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 18:43:58 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 18:44:00 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:44:04 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:04 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:44:04 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 18:44:07 DrPete_ [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 18:44:23 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-182-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 278 seconds] 18:44:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-75.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:44:41 -!- Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:44:42 ivan- [~ivan@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:47 -!- Subfusc_ is now known as Subfusc 18:44:49 Everytime I click undo, or C-x u, emacs freezes... anyone else have that problem 18:44:59 -!- ELLIOTTC1BLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 18:45:00 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 18:45:00 -!- mgile_ [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 18:45:16 ered-away [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:27 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c5c:7455:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 18:45:49 wyan_ [~wyan@ec2-54-246-94-212.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:08 tyrick: no 18:46:13 -!- lusory_ [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:13 housel- [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 p_nathan1 [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 18:46:16 ELLIOTTC1BLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 18:46:17 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-95-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:18 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:26 tyrick: but I usually use C-/, not C-x u 18:46:28 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:33 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 18:46:40 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:46:47 tyrick: ... it's the same command, forget it 18:46:48 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Client Quit] 18:46:54 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:00 Trystam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 18:47:01 tyrick: but yeah, it happens what you'd expect 18:47:13 -!- s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 18:47:17 ryoshu [~kamil@unaffiliated/ryoshu] has joined #lisp 18:47:20 Aeth_ [~Michael@c-69-243-41-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:40 ivan\_ [~ivan@108-213-76-179.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:45 C-_ is clearly superior 18:47:45 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:47:45 -!- Aeth_ [~Michael@c-69-243-41-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:47:45 Aeth_ [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 18:47:48 -!- Aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:47:50 -!- bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:52 stassats: I don't see how. You must use three keys. C-/ is only two 18:47:57 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:00 -!- ELLIOTTC1BLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:02 mutley89_ [~mutley89@host31-54-196-149.range31-54.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:07 -!- arrdem_ is now known as arrdem 18:48:13 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-221-81.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:48:20 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 18:48:41 -!- Aeth_ is now known as aeth 18:48:51 sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:48:52 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-paluhrgdisxdlmmq] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host31-54-196-149.range31-54.btcentralplus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- anaumov [~an@bane.agnitas.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:52 -!- pierpa` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- p_l_ [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.112] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- sad0ur_ [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- dtw- [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- ejbs [~user@h-211-73.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- xrq [~user@unaffiliated/xrq] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- wyan [~wyan@ec2-54-246-94-212.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- dlind [~dlind@h-184-111.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- abend [~quassel@75-148-54-129-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:48:54 -!- wyan_ is now known as wyan 18:48:58 -!- dcooper8_ is now known as dcooper8 18:48:59 Denommus: C-/ and C-x u are both bound to the same function by default. 18:49:07 -!- housel- is now known as housel 18:49:15 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:49:21 -!- ivan\_ [~ivan@108-213-76-179.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:49:23 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 18:49:30 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Client Quit] 18:49:33 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:49:40 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 18:49:43 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 18:49:45 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:49:48 Bike: I just saw that 18:49:57 I like the redundancy, though. C-/ for some reason doesn't work on my tablet. 18:50:15 C-/ also don't work in a terminal 18:50:24 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.112] has joined #lisp 18:50:38 it works in Konsole. 18:50:46 and the gnome terminal. 18:50:58 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 -!- abend_ is now known as abend 18:51:54 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:07 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 18:53:11 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:42 bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has joined #lisp 18:53:49 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:53:49 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 18:53:49 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 18:54:11 aeth: my mistake. It does work in a terminal when in X. It doesn't work in tty 18:55:15 hmm, even works in xterm 18:55:48 -!- Ue_ is now known as Ue 18:56:15 aeth: as I said, it works when in X. It just doesn't work in tty 18:56:16 dcooper8_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:18 aeth: when in a tty, C-/ is the same thing as DEL (which is backspace) 18:57:22 -!- nalaginrut_ [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:58:06 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 18:58:30 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:58:31 -!- dcooper8_ is now known as dcooper8 18:59:03 aeth_ [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 18:59:31 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 18:59:41 Why does (setq a 1) give a warning of undefined varibale a? 18:59:57 because it's an undefined variable 19:00:05 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-248-98.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 19:00:09 Kenjin [~kenjin@a95-95-119-233.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:00:10 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-203-29-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:00:25 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:31 so it isn't dynamially defined? 19:00:36 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 19:00:40 mgile_ [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:41 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@quickdocs.org] has joined #lisp 19:00:41 What the heck does frob mean? I see it everywhere nowadays 19:00:46 -!- nahiluhm_ [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:59 tyrick: by dynamically you mean automatically? 19:00:59 frobbing is when you frob something 19:01:10 heh 19:01:11 crypto_ [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:13 then no 19:01:16 feliped [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has joined #lisp 19:01:17 minion: advice on frobnicator 19:01:17 You can't expect automated advice for everything. 19:01:21 eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-64-170-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:34 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:38 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 Subfusc_ [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:40 ejbs`: it's just a metasyntactic variable, like "foo" 19:01:46 ejbs`: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/frob 19:01:51 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:01 nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 19:02:13 Denommus: just because it works for some doesn't mean it works for all. I was trying to narrow it down. 19:02:16 Bike: but it's used for functions 19:02:22 ehu_ [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:02:30 metasyntatic function 19:02:31 sykopomp: "Any small device or object (usually hand-sized) which can be manipulated.", that really doesn't tell me much when it's used in programming. Bike: Oh, really? Ok. 19:02:38 -!- Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:02:42 since frob is a verb 19:02:42 -!- Subfusc_ is now known as Subfusc 19:02:42 aw|sovereign_ [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 19:02:45 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #lisp 19:03:07 it's just "well, i need to call this function something, let's just say it frobs" 19:03:09 but wiktionary says it's also a noun 19:03:13 http://books.google.com/books?id=g80P_4v4QbIC&pg=PA206&dq=frob#v=onepage&q=frob&f=false see also 19:03:13 dlind [~dlind@h-184-111.a322.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:03:14 yan__ [~yan@64.22.109.95] has joined #lisp 19:03:19 ahungry_ [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:33 agumonke1 [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:33 vsync_ [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:41 asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-nwhzjbwiqlitwxzf] has joined #lisp 19:03:42 cmm- 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[sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:08:21 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 20:08:54 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:38 -!- rszeno1 [~rszeno@79.114.20.81] has quit [Client Quit] 20:10:13 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:12:19 ikki [~ikki@187.208.202.130] has joined #lisp 20:13:17 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 20:13:54 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:26 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:14:50 Hello everyone, I'm looking to learn lisp because I've heard it's difficult, but worth the effort both in functionality and by contributing a change of mindset when it comes to programming, I have experience in Python, and Actionscript, as well as a little Java. 20:14:52 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:15:12 Right now I'm trying to set up Emacs as my lisp IDE and I'm running into a bit of trouble 20:15:16 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 20:15:34 using slime? 20:16:06 I've heard slime is great, but since it doesn't come pre-installed I was simply trying to get lisp-mode or inferior to work 20:16:10 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:16:33 I can load up a file and everything, but auto-indenting doesn't work and I'm a little confused when it comes to actually running the code 20:16:49 minion: tell Zef about quicklisp 20:16:49 quicklisp: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 20:17:23 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:17:42 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:17:46 I've read that Emacs will auto-indent in lisp-mode, but it's not working by default for me, any ideas? 20:17:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.202.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:18:05 Zef: press tab 20:18:48 -!- agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:48 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- _death [void@al.islaam.com.ar] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- expez [~expez@expez.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- nalaginrut_ [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- freik [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:49 -!- s0ber 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20:18:51 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:18:59 aaaahhhhh 20:18:59 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:19:05 I was under the impression that it would automatically indent on a newline, is that incorrect? 20:19:17 C-j will do that. 20:19:30 but RET by default, does not, no. 20:19:31 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 i forget that RET is a key when writing lisp 20:20:20 Okay cool, it seems to be working now 20:20:34 naturally, you can bind RET to whatever C-j is 20:20:34 What's the best way to eval expressions in the IDE? 20:20:57 write functions in files, run them from the repl 20:21:21 Should I have an IELM open in another buffer? 20:21:36 -!- ahungry_ [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:21:44 -!- nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:53 no, that's for emacs lisp, we're talking about common lisp here 20:21:53 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:01 nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 20:22:15 Oh gotcha. Is there a built in interpreter for CL? 20:22:44 not in emacs. 20:23:21 Okay, so if I'm writing a CL program and I want to test bits of it, which workflow would you use? 20:23:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:32 minion: please tell Zef about slime.mov 20:23:32 Zef: look at slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 20:24:13 Thanks for the vid stassats 20:24:22 agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:42 lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 20:24:45 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:24:46 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:56 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 20:25:39 Also, I managed to find my way to "ANSI Common Lisp" by Paul Graham, is this a good place to start? Is there something else I should start with? 20:25:46 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.202.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:25:50 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 20:25:59 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:03 easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 20:26:10 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:26:11 I think Practical Common Lisp is better. So is Paradigms of AI Programming. 20:26:16 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:50 deliciousrobots [~delicious@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:57 Keep in mind that I'm a beginner to Lisp, so whatever can provide the best basis would be preferable 20:27:21 Both of those books are good. 20:27:30 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:28:05 I read PCL when I was a Common Lisper already. Still liked it. 20:28:12 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:56 saeftl [~invisible@213.95.11.194] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 _death [void@al.islaam.com.ar] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 expez [~expez@expez.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 nalaginrut_ [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 killian [~killian@ip70-179-169-110.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 drewc_ [~drewc@drewc.org] has joined #lisp 20:28:57 -!- hiredman [~hiredman@67-135-45-49.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:20 hiredman [~hiredman@67-135-45-49.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:21 minion: acronyms ? 20:29:22 acronyms: http://mbishop.esoteriq.org/stuff/books.txt 20:29:30 -!- hagish [~hagish@host-88-217-174-111.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:29:33 Sounds good, I'll take a look at it. Naturally you guys will be biased, but what's your opinion on Scheme? 20:29:46 hm, nonexistent, should perhaps be replaced with 20:30:07 Zef : learn both ? 20:30:22 ski: which one first? 20:30:27 Zef: it's a beautiful language. 20:30:42 Zef: but for commercial applications, I prefer CL any time. 20:30:55 Scheme might be simpler to learn first 20:31:01 I've read it's very good as an educational language 20:31:02 minion: SICP? 20:31:02 SICP: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 20:31:15 uses Scheme to teach programming concepts 20:31:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.163.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:32:25 k0001 [~k0001@host151.186-109-105.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:32:26 So do most of you use slime? 20:32:38 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:47 it's the best thing currently 20:34:46 -!- agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:04 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:35:19 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 20:36:08 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:36:19 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qphhopyhhfmvymrv] has joined #lisp 20:36:45 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:39:40 Zef: it depends. I'm not very used to it, but whenever I don't get by using PRINT statements, yes, I do. 20:39:52 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.20.81] has joined #lisp 20:40:19 Zef: Quicklisp has a nice slime auto-installer 20:40:23 Zef: yes 20:40:28 (note though that I hack on an implementation, which can be cumbersome as you're changing things you may at the same time rely on, if you do interactive hacking) 20:40:31 How do I see what command/function is bound to a certain key combo in Emacs btw? 20:40:45 ejbs`: C-h k 20:40:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:42:16 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.207] has joined #lisp 20:42:28 Denommus: Ty 20:42:31 -!- varioust [~varioust@76.84.21.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:42:44 and `C-h c' for a brief display of just the name 20:43:33 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:34 entitativity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:04 -!- ejbs` [~user@h-211-73.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:46 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:10 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 20:46:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:47:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:48 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:07 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:49:35 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:49:41 ahokaomaeha [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 20:49:58 hi, what libraries are available for lisp-to-lisp remote calls? 20:50:00 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 20:50:44 I know I could use drakma and any web server, but maybe something more convenient? 20:51:12 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:18 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:51:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:05 ejbs [~user@h-211-73.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:55:53 like cxml-rpc? 20:56:03 checking 20:57:32 can be much more lispy, does not have to be any external standards compliant 20:58:07 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 20:58:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:47 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:06 -!- Grizzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-286-70.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:00:27 something like slime, but lisp-to-lisp rather than lisp-to-emacs ;) ? 21:01:02 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:08 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Quit: best short-url ever. ] 21:01:27 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 21:01:44 -!- ahokaomaeha is now known as lolcathost 21:01:56 open a socket, PRINT, READ, PROFIT 21:02:14 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:14 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:31 stassats, yes, would do, but any initial plumbing would help - or at least I am thinking so 21:03:57 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:00 Grizzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-286-70.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:06:12 -!- Zef [~Zef@S0106001ff341aec3.ss.shawcable.net] has quit [] 21:07:05 -!- ejbs [~user@h-211-73.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:51 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:05 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:14 -!- m7w_ [~chatzilla@178.172.214.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:08:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:59 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:05 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-201-226.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:45 s0ber [~s0ber@1-164-212-249.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:32 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:12:38 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:02 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:19 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-203-29-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:20:51 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.137] has joined #lisp 21:21:13 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:22:21 p_nathan1 [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has joined #lisp 21:24:01 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has quit [Quit: best short-url ever. ] 21:25:15 ELLIOTTCABLE [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 -!- jocke_pirat [~kgarricks@host-77-46-236-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:38 puchacz: I'm buliding some rudimentary RPC on top of pzmq + cl-store for serialization 21:25:40 also if transport is inproc, it just passes the ref, otherwise serializes and decerializes with cl-store 21:25:52 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:30 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 21:31:32 -!- lolcathost is now known as atamagawarui 21:32:43 anyone know offhand if there's a rabbitmq library out there for non-LW implementations? the closest I've seen is de.setf.amqp, which doesn't appear packaged to be a rabbit library. 21:32:44 maxm: plug, https://github.com/conspack/cl-conspack 21:33:06 maxm: may not fit your needs, but i was building it to target zmq at some point 21:34:03 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:35:26 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:35:42 (sadly zmq had some separate issues that i was waiting on 2.x? 3.x? to fix) 21:36:15 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:37:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:44:21 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-kggoiyekjuuuhsmp] has joined #lisp 21:47:54 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:26 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:49:20 ya know.. 21:50:55 maybe it is the way we say it is.. and not the way that it appears to be 21:51:44 monoquantum alogoism has it's advatages 21:59:39 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:03 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2d40.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:03 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-95-19.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:01:53 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-237-1-78.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:11 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 22:02:33 -!- robot-be` is now known as robot-beethoven 22:03:58 -!- pierpa`` [~user@host126-61-dynamic.41-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:23 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:05:30 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:06:48 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:54 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:13 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:10 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-111-59.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:09:14 -!- mevenson [~user@50.7.253.58] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:09:34 -!- pjb is now known as Guest42937 22:10:27 mevenson [~user@50.7.253.58] has joined #lisp 22:10:32 -!- ivan- [~ivan@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:10:32 ivan- [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 22:10:34 -!- ivan- is now known as ivan 22:10:51 -!- atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has quit [Quit: Sitting in front of a computer all day long is bad for my health, so I am switching to a different computer.] 22:13:36 MrGarlic [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pqllmlridelsmwma] has joined #lisp 22:13:41 ("lisp" . ("is" . ("totally" . ("intuitive" . nil)))) ; *proceeds to quadruple check parens* 22:14:09 we have computers that take care of that. 22:15:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:03 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-kggoiyekjuuuhsmp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:16:09 Or editors... 22:16:20 Which are a kind of computer. 22:16:33 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:35 oGMo: thanks will check it out 22:18:27 "C"" ""i""s"" ""??/"t""o""t""a""l""l""y""??/""" ""e""a""s""y"" ""t""o""o" 22:19:08 foom: didn't you mean to send this to ##programming? 22:19:14 atamagawarui [~user@unaffiliated/dijkstragroupie] has joined #lisp 22:19:33 Denommus: no, feel free to copy it there if you like. 22:19:34 oh, no. Somebody actually sent this shit to #lisp 22:20:44 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 22:22:01 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:22:51 (but seriously, who in their right minds would write a list as a chain of cons cells?) 22:23:34 its helpful when demonstrating how lists are usually stored 22:23:52 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:24:26 maxm: yes. Didactical purposes. Never actually used in real life 22:24:32 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.128.78] has joined #lisp 22:24:32 since to some people its unclear how "lists are build from conses" work.. Even thought before lisp got vectors, the way I understand lisp machines actually optimized storing them as arrays or such 22:24:58 -!- mevenson [~user@50.7.253.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:01 mevenson` [~user@50.7.253.58] has joined #lisp 22:26:36 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:27:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2987F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:27:17 they did; afaik no current system does that, though? 22:27:45 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 22:28:11 foom: yea no need to do it, since CL have arrays 22:28:36 stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.182.250] has joined #lisp 22:28:53 -!- Hydan` [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:07 Well. Arrays are a bit irritating to use in CL, since they were bolted poorly onto the side. 22:29:27 foom: are they? I don't quite agree 22:29:50 in the end, conses feel obsolete to me a bit. Other then source code and macros, every other data structure I initially build out of conses, ends up growing into a CLOS object, or array/structure 22:29:51 Conses 22:29:51 For conses, equal is defined recursively as the two cars being equal and the two cdrs being equal. 22:29:57 Arrays 22:29:57 Two arrays are equal only if they are eq, with one exception: strings and bit vectors are compared element-by-element (using eql). [...] 22:30:26 in fact even for source code munching, they are not the best, hence the arnesi and other code walkers, returning AST tree kind of data structure rather then lists 22:30:34 maxm: hash-table or array here. Unless I really want to access it sequentially 22:30:34 CLOS too was bolted on the side 22:30:39 not the best for source code munching 22:31:16 don't care how it got there, still works great :-) 22:31:46 i only use 64-bit integers 22:32:27 *maxm* uses a kind of trivial sexp parser built on top of boost::variant on C++ side, to communicate high-level calls to my C++ libs 22:32:46 datastructures are for wusses 22:33:17 because data structures are arbitrary trees and such (building the optimized backtester/macine learning objective function from Lisp, then letting optimized C++ crunch it out) 22:33:43 -!- sad0ur_ [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:44 and I don't miss conses at all, even though programming interface is the same (first/rest/recursion) 22:33:46 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:59 foom: indeed equal's behavior is not intuitive 22:34:22 stassats: its the opposite of what I was saying.. conses are very flexible, but now we have better tools 22:34:51 foom: it probably should be fixed if the standard was ever updated. But then, somewhere, somehow, someone must be using equal to compare vectors, and he is expecting them to be eq 22:34:51 you're saying it like there can be one datastructure to rule them all 22:35:13 sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:35:25 i use lists when i need lists, arrays when arrays, hash-tables, when it calls for hash-tables 22:35:57 ^ 22:36:09 stassats: agreed, sometimes the best choice really is a linked list. But in most languages, the "default" datastructure is not a that. And that's a good thing. 22:36:27 The best choice is very rarely a linked list with tail sharing... 22:37:26 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:37:41 foom: most language do not have a "default" datastructure. At most, a special syntax for arrays or something like it 22:37:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:46 still for macro manipulation its most natural.. (a bit offtopic), I'm upgrading from viper/vimpulse to evil, and am very impressed with the macro system they developed 22:37:49 <_death> but it's "good enough" for many tasks 22:37:52 -!- _death is now known as adhet 22:37:54 -!- adhet is now known as adeht 22:38:13 foom: Lisp having so many operations for lists is a good thing, but you can have a whole project without resorting to them, except in macros 22:38:32 like all the VI mechanics, was split/catenated/categorized, into just 4 different macros, with various options, and the holy spaghetti that was viper, suddenly looks like clean, reusable code 22:38:34 what is this discussion about, can somebody remind me? 22:38:41 *stassats* is missing the point 22:38:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:38:49 nothing, it's about nothing. 22:38:51 usefulness of conses 22:39:24 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 22:39:25 conses are very useful, I don't see why denying that 22:42:06 ikki [~ikki@177.224.214.137] has joined #lisp 22:42:58 -!- Guest42937 is now known as pjb` 22:43:06 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 22:43:50 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:58 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:19 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:59 -!- ELLIOTTCABLE is now known as ihateallofyou 22:51:07 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:53:19 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.137] has joined #lisp 22:55:48 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@98.145.133.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:18 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:18 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:59:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.214.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:59:31 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:00:39 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:01:56 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:30 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:19 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:08:18 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-123-139.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:34 mrSpec [~Spec@133.Red-83-57-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@133.Red-83-57-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:09:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:10:21 -!- ihateallofyou is now known as goodbye 23:10:49 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:12 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-126-204.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:48 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:13:42 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:14:09 ikki [~ikki@187.208.202.130] has joined #lisp 23:16:43 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-60-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:36 -!- goodbye [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:54 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dcooper8] 23:19:36 -!- koisoke [xef4@epilogue.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:27 dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:35 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:47 *jasom_* uses conses when he needs to store exactly two things 23:25:47 -!- dcooper8 [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:51 -!- jasom_ is now known as jasom 23:26:33 and not complex? 23:27:30 stassats: right 23:27:51 I think I used complex numbers once 23:28:14 complex numbers can be more compact, for numbers only, of course 23:28:17 I try to keep it real 23:28:49 jasom: that's a rational decision 23:29:11 In an imaginary world, I could see myself using complex numbers more often 23:29:51 i try to use them whenever an opportunity floats by 23:29:56 jasom: http://xkcd.com/849/ 23:31:24 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:59 ckoch786 [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:40 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:35:06 -!- easye` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:22 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 23:36:49 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.249.67] has joined #lisp 23:38:56 alpha123 [~peter@184-99-236-121.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:58 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 23:39:36 -!- MithrilTuxedo [~MithrilTu@66-162-141-202.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:40:08 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.182.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:30 hugoduncan [~user@76.65.143.57] has joined #lisp 23:40:40 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@46.208.109.51] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 23:41:29 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@ubuntu/member/stokachu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:49 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:50 stokachu [~stokachu@cypherbook.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:05 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:05 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:42:05 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 23:42:30 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:42:38 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 23:43:00 -!- joe9 [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:27 joe9_ [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:57 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.143.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:44:46 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:33 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:39 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:45:52 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 23:46:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:19 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:50:22 what do you think about Arc's syntax for single parameter lambdas? 23:53:01 -!- bitonic [~user@2.121.145.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:07 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 23:55:25 Denommus: I don't know what it is; something more terse than (fn (x) ...) ? 23:57:22 *maxm* used complex number in his qt stuff, to represent coordinates 23:57:58 I actually have not benchmarked if its any faster/better then structs, but somehow it felt natural to have small RECT objects around which have 2 complex in them for corners 23:58:19 jasom: yes 23:58:20 but since its all abstracted out into inlined function anyway, I can always switch.. 23:58:30 antgreen [~green@64.56.254.79] has joined #lisp 23:58:41 (fn (x) (+ x 1)) could be written as [+ _ 1] 23:59:25 I was thinking about doing some reader magic 23:59:40 also one of the reasons, it was easier to implement smoothing. I don't even know a proper geometric term, but basically if you have a bunch of points and you chart them with just lines, it looks weird. So its an algo to make that flexible ruler impression that ppl used in olden days to aproximate smoother curves from points