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[~SrPx@177.205.224.213.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:38:25 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 04:39:49 I get a style-warning if I provide :element-type that definitely doesn't include 0 but not an initial element to make-array in sbcl. is that normal? 04:40:34 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 04:44:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:44:24 Bike: 04:44:26 "If initial-element is supplied, it is used to initialize each element of new-array. If initial-element is supplied, it must be of the type given by element-type. initial-element cannot be supplied if either the :initial-contents option is supplied or displaced-to is non-nil. If initial-element is not supplied, the consequences of later reading an uninitialized element of new-array are undefined unless either initial-contents is supplied or displaced-to is non- 04:44:26 nil." 04:45:09 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 04:45:11 right, but that doesn't mention my situation 04:45:25 which is (make-array dims :element-type some-type) 04:46:10 It says that reading from the resulting array is undefined behaviour 04:46:25 It means it's OK to do that, as long as you don't read any of the elements. 04:47:31 so why is sbcl giving me a style warning? it says " The default initial element 0 is not a ", seems like they special cased that "default" 04:47:53 Bike: it only does that if you ret to read from it 04:48:47 (compile nil '(lambda () (make-array 4 :element-type 'string))) is enough to show it 04:49:41 Bike: hmm. yes you're right 04:49:50 that does seem to be a bogus error 04:50:22 i don't get it with, say, 'character, presumably because of string's u-a-e-t being t 04:50:48 uaet? 04:50:55 upgraded array element type 04:51:04 ah 04:51:28 but is it? 04:51:39 u-a-e-t of string is T here, yes 04:51:57 what seems to be happening is, sbcl generates code to make a generic (T) array, filled with 0s, and then gives a warning about those elements not being strings for some reason 04:53:05 yeah. seems to be because SBCL has no actual concept of "uninitialised" element. So it puts a zero in there, triggering the warning. 04:53:34 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 04:54:12 The warning should be emitted if you try to set the element of the rong type, or if you read an element and it is of the wrong type. The latter check would have to be at hich safety levels I presume, since it'll be slow. 04:55:18 Interesting 04:55:24 (make-array 10 :element-type 'cons) 04:55:26 no error 04:55:33 (let ((x (make-array 10 :element-type 'cons)))) 04:55:36 gives error 04:55:50 nostoi [~nostoi@142.Red-79-153-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:16 oh, that's just because sbcl doesn't compile simple repl calls 04:56:25 that's why i did the compile nil thing 04:57:14 it happens in the deftransform somewhere 04:57:25 if I FUNCALL make-array then it doesn't happen 04:57:33 it's L510 in array-tran.lisp. 04:57:46 there's a comment about it. it seems extraneous to me but I guess I can ignore a style warning I don't like 05:00:12 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.205.224.213.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 05:02:14 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-83-191.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:33 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-174-152.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:04:48 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ZZZzzz] 08:56:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:56:33 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:57:35 The_third_man [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:22 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:58:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:59:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:00:04 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.143.82] has joined #lisp 09:00:44 y5h [~textual@116.36.42.92] has joined #lisp 09:02:38 If it wasn't a book title i'd say welcome back to the land of lisp 09:02:51 BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has joined #lisp 09:04:46 alch___ [~michael@EM117-55-68-156.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 09:04:58 alch____ [~michael@pb6abea75.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:05:27 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:49 -!- alch___ [~michael@EM117-55-68-156.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:08:49 -!- alch____ is now known as alch___ 09:08:51 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:12:24 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:12:51 marijn [~user@p5DDB0499.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:59 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 09:14:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15:17 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:18:31 -!- yamhih [~yamhih@113.96.155.226] has left #lisp 09:19:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:19:50 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:24:44 have ,quit and ,restart in slime stopped working for anyone else? (I upgraded both emacs and slime recently, so I'm unsure what caused this) 09:25:29 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:27:54 mmm, I should go read slime docs someday... 09:28:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-054.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:30:18 Any ideas for ; unknown CFFI type: :POINTER. 09:30:43 I got that now, suddenly.... after restarting an SBCL instance 09:31:17 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-adbjngjwdxcwnjse] has joined #lisp 09:31:43 pw_ [uid2072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iwwvehshgwfvfxzu] has joined #lisp 09:32:27 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kephhyjrukehpzuy] has joined #lisp 09:33:41 hrmpf. deleting ~/.cache/common-lisp and rebuilding my sbcl core fixed it. 09:33:51 bitonic [~user@97e105e8.skybroadband.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:18 marijn: what is the result of: (if (swank:load-file ()) "?") ? 09:36:08 marijn: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Connecting-to-a-remote-lisp.html#Connecting-to-a-remote-lisp 09:37:03 Joreji [~thomas@79-054.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:37:28 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.38.78.200] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:42:14 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 09:42:54 pnpuff: "The value NIL is not of type (OR (VECTOR CHARACTER) (VECTOR NIL) BASE-STRING PATHNAME FILE-STREAM)." 09:43:23 pnpuff: my lisp is local, started by slime itself 09:45:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:46:45 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:47:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-054.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:47:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:49:48 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:51:01 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:52:07 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 09:52:22 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 09:52:22 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:22 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 09:52:22 marijn: ok, so you've loaded the swank-loader.file 09:53:09 marijn: try M-x slime-connect 09:54:19 pnpuff: to accomplish what? 09:54:58 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 09:55:43 marijn: to connect to the swank server. http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Setting-up-Emacs.html#Setting-up-Emacs 09:56:55 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:57:44 marijn: anyway , sorry for the syntax error, was the "swank-loader.lisp" file that you find in your slime directory. 10:00:29 so, it sounds like you're solving a problem I'm not having. slime works fine. It's just the ,quit and ,restart commands at the repl that have stopped doing anything 10:01:09 oops 10:02:47 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:09 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:06:51 marijn: so I can't reproduce your problem. Here ,quit and ,restart-inferior-lisp are working 10:07:43 marijn: try (swank:quit-lisp) in the repl... 10:09:03 and look at *slime-events* buffer 10:09:40 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:09:40 ...is working? 10:09:57 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:11:53 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:54 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:11:54 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:12:09 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:14:47 pnpuff: when i do ,restart I see "(:emacs-rex (swank:quit-lisp) "COMMON-LISP-USER" :repl-thread 6)" in the slime-messages buffer, but never any response. the repl buffer stops functioning ("Connection closed"), and the inferior lisp buffer seems wholly unaffected 10:15:26 pnpuff: i'm on cvs head (but had the same problem with a cvs head from a month or so back) 10:16:23 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:17:17 zorkmoid [c2ed8e14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.20] has joined #lisp 10:17:32 &join #emacs 10:17:36 whoops... 10:19:09 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:57 could be a deadlock too. From *inferior-lisp* try (sb-thread:list-all-threads) and recent SBCL tells you if thread is blocked on a mutex 10:22:42 hm, actually, the inferior-lisp buffer is not responding anymore. I remember emacs asking me whether i wanted to kill a buffer with a process associated with it when I killed in in previous (similar) cases, but right now, it is really dead. just not cleaned up. and no restarting happens. 10:22:57 zorkmoid: another possibility would be bindings to ffmpeg, which also supports streams compression/decompression other than recording from various sources 10:23:00 anyway, this isn't a huge deal, i was just wondering if it was a general problem that people might know a solution ot 10:24:16 marijn: your swank server received a swank:close-connection, so is normal *inferior-lisp* is no more responding 10:24:17 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:25:45 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:797c:63d6:7a3a:5850] has joined #lisp 10:27:13 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-088-069-119-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:27:21 -!- exprosic [~expuser@2001:da8:201:1236:d81:5d3b:5aac:df12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:32:19 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:33:01 -!- alch___ [~michael@pb6abea75.tokyff01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: alch___] 10:42:34 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 10:43:17 spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:44:34 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:35 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:44:35 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:45:14 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:46:44 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46:58 nifty.. http://paste.lisp.org/display/137358 10:48:56 zorkmoid: and when do you use such a thing? 10:49:40 jdz: all the time when editing text actually ... 10:50:38 must be some special kind of text, then 10:50:42 hehe 10:52:29 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.243.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:03 jdz: it usually happens when i'm moving point down, and frobbed the text (usually not lisp code, but in comments) and need to align it.. 10:54:37 i use M-q to format comments 10:55:05 and for removing rectangular areas, C-x r d 10:56:08 jdz: doesn't do the Right Thing(TM) all the time. 10:56:44 deleteing rectangles also works if and only if you have a sensible area that isn't jagged... 10:57:05 the solution is to not get into the jagged situation in the first place 10:57:19 SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 10:57:19 (plus, you have to move point alot for rectangles) 10:57:56 zorkmoid: for what it's worth, i have a similar command set up and use it all the time 10:58:09 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:58:45 zorkmoid: though mine takes care to leave the kill ring alone (since stretches of whitespace tend to be rather uninteresting) 10:58:49 marijn: i think most people have one, just not bound to M-\ in some fashion, C-u M-\ already does the right thing backwards, but not forwards... oh well :-) 10:58:52 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:59:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:59:57 marijn: (for the record, this also leaves kill ring alone) 11:00:19 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:59 zorkmoid: oh, uh, i thought delete-region wouldn't. seems it indeed does 11:01:41 marijn: yup, kill-region saves kill-ring though.. 11:02:50 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-203-12.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:04 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:05:40 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:48 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:46 ck`` [~ck@dslb-088-069-119-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:11 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:21 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-eexvyikrinhfchoe] has joined #lisp 11:10:38 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-eexvyikrinhfchoe] has quit [Client Quit] 11:11:08 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-tkjtutkeitkndyti] has joined #lisp 11:13:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:46 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:14:08 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 11:14:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:14:29 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:15:37 josemanuel [~josemanue@82.171.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:16:49 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-cmsurlrbndlwvyta] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:18:41 -!- marijn [~user@p5DDB0499.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:20:38 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:08 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ddtxsuptbxwwmgkl] has joined #lisp 11:24:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:27:28 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:28:19 Any ITA/Google folks around? 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[~josemanue@82.171.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:16:17 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 12:16:43 gavilan2 [~Gavilan2@199.167.138.223] has joined #lisp 12:17:18 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:18:21 kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-134.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 12:24:41 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:08 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.120.159.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:32:39 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:33:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-243.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:59 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:35:48 hi 12:36:05 hello 12:36:07 please I've got this message using cl-libxml2 under sbcl: bare references to struct types are deprecated. 12:36:43 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:37 leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has joined #lisp 12:37:49 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:38:03 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 12:39:41 cffi bares all 12:40:11 its a warning, it would continue to work fine, but wrapper lib author need to update it with accordance to new cffi syntax 12:41:25 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:41:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:23 maxm-: ok, tx 12:44:12 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 12:45:05 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 12:47:13 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[fishing] 12:48:47 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:48:59 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:28 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess 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[~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:44:50 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 13:46:00 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:20 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:46:25 hi 13:46:44 hello denommus, how are you today? 13:49:39 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:50:29 billstclair [~billstcla@p-209-105-143-196.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-209-105-143-196.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:50:29 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:51:44 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 13:52:39 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-68-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:42 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 13:55:15 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 13:59:41 alch___ [~michael@EM117-55-68-133.emobile.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 14:00:19 wbooze: lazy 14:01:01 Denommus: i am! 14:02:02 I'm thinking about implementing Active Record in CL, but it seems the most powerful way is with MOP, isn't it? 14:02:19 -!- Bor0 [~boro@unaffiliated/boro/x-000000001] has left #lisp 14:02:22 Denommus: what makes you say "but"? 14:02:59 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:04 ejbs [~user@h-199-216.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:03:13 active record ? 14:03:16 H4ns: I know nothing about MOP 14:03:20 where does that term stem from ? 14:03:28 Denommus: then you need to learn it. 14:03:33 Denommus: if you want to use it :) 14:03:58 indeed I need. Any book recommendation? 14:04:05 does PCL cover it? 14:04:07 crab2313 [~crab@120.128.2.6] has joined #lisp 14:04:12 Denommus: no 14:04:17 minion: tell Denommus about amop 14:04:17 Denommus: please look at amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.alu.org/mop/ 14:04:39 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 14:04:56 wbooze: active record is a pattern inspired by Ruby on Rails. It's pretty, but I think it could be better 14:05:04 Active Record is an ORM right? then go read "ORM or the Vietnam of Computer Science" and any article that could help to make you realise that ORM are a bad idea 14:05:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:05:45 active record is not an orm, and orms are not generally a bad idea. 14:06:12 ORM is very good at CRUD, anything else the only feature you want from them is the ability to bypass them entirely 14:06:44 dim: well, as you know nothing about active record apparently, you might as well not engage in the discussion :) 14:06:55 dim: no offense 14:07:01 none taken 14:07:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:07:38 is huebner present ? 14:07:48 is that you H4ns ? 14:07:50 one thing that I'd like to make on my implementation of Active Record would be the ability to make the models completely independent from a database, if I want to 14:07:54 wbooze: that's my last name 14:07:59 I should brush up on active record that's true... that said I don't remember having heard good things about it in the PostgreSQL community... maybe that's selective memory, if it's not I think giving the memo is a good idea 14:08:02 aaah 14:08:28 like (make-instance 'my-model :memory-only t) 14:09:21 or something similar, I'm not very sure yet. This would allow for testing the application without a database 14:10:15 Denommus: why would you want to test an application without a database? does that not impact the meaningfulness of the test? 14:10:48 -!- crab2313 [~crab@120.128.2.6] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:11:42 H4ns: because sometimes I may want to create a mock of the model (for example, if I don't want my tests to generate a visible side effect), and this seem the most intuitive way of doing that 14:12:11 SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 14:12:39 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Client Quit] 14:13:04 on automated tests this is useful 14:13:28 Hi, I forgot the name of the functions to shift bits and I can't find it in the hyperspec. How can I find it "logically" in the hyperspec? 14:13:32 ludston [~ludston@101.161.12.155] has joined #lisp 14:13:35 Rails "solves" this by creating a database exclusive for testing. But this is often problematic 14:13:38 SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 14:13:50 H4ns: I'm confused again now. Reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_record_pattern clearly states that Active Record (the Ruby one) is an ORM... 14:14:03 clhs ash 14:14:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ash.htm 14:14:38 thanks jdz 14:14:57 dim: because Ruby's implementation is an ORM, but active record is not necessarily an ORM 14:15:09 dim: from what i understand, activerecord is a record abstraction, not a mapping of an arbitrary object model onto tables. 14:15:54 my past reading hints bluntly that the main problem with ORMs is that the object to record mapping is useless and even counter-productive as soon as you're not doing CRUD 14:16:10 and I tend to agree with that, and to mix that with ORM... and Active Record 14:16:58 -!- alch___ [~michael@EM117-55-68-133.emobile.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: alch___] 14:16:58 the first such article I read has been http://blogs.tedneward.com/2006/06/26/The+Vietnam+Of+Computer+Science.aspx 14:17:13 this article is pretty old 14:17:23 Stale wisdom is the worst wisdom! 14:17:27 I had just decided to stop finishing that little ORM I was at that time writing 14:17:37 baudtack [~baudtack@unaffiliated/baudtack] has joined #lisp 14:17:57 -!- baudtack [~baudtack@unaffiliated/baudtack] has left #lisp 14:18:14 I don't think the concepts of relational databases and tuples on one side, and in-memory application objects on the other side, and the mapping in between them, changed much in the recent years 14:18:36 even when you take into consideration NoSQL and map/reduce 14:18:47 well, i personally observe that there are loads of useful rails applications, and i also wrote orm based software and found it pleasant. often more pleasant than dealing with queries and columns directly. 14:18:58 what's map/reduce if it's not an (maybe distributed) aggregate, after all 14:19:25 I like to use queries, what I don't like is mixing it inside Common Lisp code, to be honest 14:19:40 ORM for me is a very good solution if the problem you want to solve is "Time To Market" and you're using it only for simple things 14:19:50 because it's usually inside strings 14:19:53 anything else and it's often the worst solution available 14:20:07 Denommus: have a look at s-sql from postmodern then 14:20:26 http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/s-sql.html 14:21:15 ejbs` [~user@h-138-224.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:21:49 *Xach* likes s-sql a lot 14:21:52 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:27 *H4ns* likes s-sql, too, but only because he needs to deal with data in a database that he has no control over 14:22:37 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:22:40 I'm not there yet, but now that I did some parsing work and produced lisp code as a data structure that I then compile, and did some cl-who stuff too, I think I'm going to get ready for s-sql :) 14:23:14 -!- ejbs [~user@h-199-216.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:23:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:17 chris [~chris@xdsl-78-35-193-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.254.120] has joined #lisp 14:24:37 ORM works great for small/custom futures, where you know you not going to have perf problem 14:24:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.254.120] has quit [Changing host] 14:24:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:24:40 -!- chris is now known as Guest55566 14:24:40 well, I'll reflect over these things 14:24:55 -!- Guest55566 [~chris@xdsl-78-35-193-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:01 just my 2 cents, but i like clsql sql syntax better than s-sql 14:25:03 maybe I come up with a completely different solution from Active Record after all 14:25:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:18 ie a website to manage something (like records per patient or whatever), and they want "oh, can't we store this or that".. Make new class -> bam store/retrive it, you done 14:25:46 -!- dalecooper [~chris@xdsl-81-173-162-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:25:56 http://clsql.b9.com/manual/sql.html 14:26:03 the main thing is that as soon as you want data about more than one tuple at a time, ORM are not very useful (count, avg, window functions, etc), and often ORM are stupid about batch operations (use a temp table+copy data in then UPDATE with a join is so much faster as soon as you have like 10 rows to target), etc 14:26:21 where ppl run into problem with ORM, is when their app to few hundred simultaneous users, and you need to bring the big guns (ie clustered oracle or such).. 14:26:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:26:57 maxm-: IME the problem begins when you need to think about more than one tuple at a time, but I've been told modern ORM can be used in such cases 14:27:01 jdz: clsql.b9.com does not exist. 14:27:15 H4ns: strange, it does for me... 14:27:18 still, I wouldn't like to express a CTE/window-function query with an ORM 14:27:26 i just browsed to that page from google 14:27:50 jdz: interesting. well, probably problem on my end. 14:27:50 also its a pain in the ass to debug, if ORM somehow breaks.. Ie you build a really deep structure with ORM, with one to one, and many to many and who knows what, coz it was easy. Then suddenly you have a website throwing an exception, from 15 recursive levels of ORM syncing to db, those are the worst :-) 14:28:06 my expirience was with hibernate thoght, maybe rails orm is more bulletproof? 14:29:23 Linq2Sql will happily do internal for-loops to please you. The performance is really really bad and it's not obvious which part of the expression triggers a loop. I'd prefer an exception actually. 14:29:36 but for quick-n-dirty fire and forget, just a few levels with not many dependencies, ORM saves so much time, i still use it, but with eye towards above problems. Part of the art is know when to use what tool 14:32:47 exactly maxm-, my rules of thumb are: CRUD on 1 tuple, and when building the demo of your product (Time To Market) --- after that, forget about ORM, you're losing time and performances and code flexibility 14:34:01 nowadays with cheaply available clustering seems it moves towards ORM side, for webapps at least 14:34:30 until you think about what clustering means and what you're trading off there (hint: that now is my day job) 14:34:52 its only when you have client who won't have their data on a cloud, or has internal IT deprtment that wants to approve all tech, that 'just throw a bunch of blades at it' is not fastest/cheapest 14:34:53 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 14:35:08 Grizzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-238-24.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:35:15 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:22 or want strong transactional guarantess and high-availability of the *data* rather than the *services* 14:35:44 I guess depends on a client.. But honestly I find guys like github.com throwing bunch of urby crap together to make a very usable thing quickly, to be very impressive 14:35:53 -!- Gr1zzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-238-24.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:09 k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-085.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:10 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:26 -!- spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:26 dim: well if you go into transactional guarantees and such, its a bit different level from rail stuff imho 14:36:28 I think they did embrace the "Eventually Consistent" model, which is not a good one for many businesses, as it means in fact no consistency at all 14:36:43 (well it means that you never know when your system is consistent...) 14:36:53 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:37:21 maxm-: I wish it was. Apparently lots of people want both, start with rails, and wonder where is the transactional semantics they didn't really think about 14:37:23 "hard things are hard" is my take on it :-) 14:37:28 Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 14:37:29 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:10 my take on ORM is that it wrongly makes (some) developers think that hard things can be so simple that you don't have to think about it 14:38:24 and then they fail at delivering 14:38:30 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:38:51 anyway I'd better stop here before H4ns reminds me of the topic here ;) 14:40:03 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:52 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:44:05 mtd [~martin@82.68.80.108] has joined #lisp 14:45:20 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 14:45:57 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:46:38 -!- ludston [~ludston@101.161.12.155] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:49 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 14:48:05 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:05 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:48:05 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:05 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 14:48:54 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:48:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:48:54 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:49:25 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@82.171.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:50:02 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:50:32 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has left #lisp 14:51:03 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 14:51:05 -!- Grizzly is now known as Gr1zzly 14:52:08 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.117.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:10 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.205.224.213.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 14:54:15 josemanuel [~josemanue@71.181.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:56:29 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:56:39 primenum [~primenum@c-71-231-57-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:35 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:36 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:02:37 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-tkjtutkeitkndyti] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:35 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:19 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.120.159.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:05:58 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:06 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:07:59 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:49 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 15:09:15 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:20 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:10:39 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-190-225.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 15:12:32 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:12:54 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:29 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:45 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:15:55 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:15:56 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:17:18 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:19:16 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:19:32 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-227-172-202.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-227-172-202.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:24:01 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:797c:63d6:7a3a:5850] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:23 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-227-172-202.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:51 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:18 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 15:33:31 -!- gavilan2 [~Gavilan2@199.167.138.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:33:43 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-227-172-202.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:36:16 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-227-172-202.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:18 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-156-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:19 -!- ejbs` [~user@h-138-224.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:43 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:23 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:42:45 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-227-172-202.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:45:08 pjb: several of your systems fail on sbcl now. 15:45:36 pjb: c.i.clext and c.i.cl.stepper and c.i.lispdoc 15:46:12 Xach: do you remember now the name of the library to generate handlers for (almost) hierarchical URLs (you yourself once forgot the name of it i think) 15:46:17 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:46:42 http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/defservice/ 15:46:59 Xach: awesome, thanks! 15:47:26 i actually checked Marijn's homepage, but it is not listed there... 15:47:33 above top secret 15:48:38 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:42 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@76.178.163.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:49:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-243.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:52:00 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:33 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 16:00:00 grlpx [~grlpx@wgate.fisica.unimi.it] has joined #lisp 16:00:14 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c1c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:11 Hello all, how would you implement a ErdsRényi random graph in lisp? do you have any advantage here over other languages (e.g. C) 16:02:09 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:02:42 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:21 grlpx: hash tables are built-in, unlike C. But I can't see any difference between GCed languages with decent standard data structure. 16:10:12 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:24 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:13:49 -!- primenum [~primenum@c-71-231-57-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:02 -!- Gr1zzly is now known as Grizzly` 16:14:07 -!- Grizzly` is now known as Grizzly 16:14:14 How come that with inferior-lisp started by Slime itself, the swank::*servers* is NIL? There is a line on top of *inferior-lisp* (progn (load "/home/max/cvs/slime/swank-loader.lisp" :verbose t) (funcall (read-from-string "swank-loader:init")) (funcall (read-from-string "swank:start-server") "/tmp/slime.32318")) 16:14:39 -!- Grizzly is now known as `Grizzly 16:14:51 so tracing the calls, swank:start-server should eventually get to (serve-loop) label, which does (note), which does :add-server, which supposed to add the new server to *servers* list 16:14:57 but its empty 16:15:15 for the record, what I'm trying to do, is (fork) then kill slime server and dump 16:15:30 -!- `Grizzly is now known as Gr1zzly 16:15:56 pierpa` [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:17:13 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 16:17:38 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:49 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@71.181.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:19:14 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:59 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 16:20:13 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-203-12.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:43 -!- SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kephhyjrukehpzuy] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:27 ah ok, I got confused, apparently it stops the server after 1st connection was accepted. What I'm ought to do, is kill the connection 16:24:14 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-156-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:38 -!- exprosic [~expuser@2001:da8:201:1236:f938:6c12:2f34:61a8] has quit [Quit: i'm back to mars] 16:25:31 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:41 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:25:41 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:25:59 ah (dolist (c swank::*connections*) (swank::close-connection c nil nil)) was the magic trick 16:28:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:28:33 -!- grlpx [~grlpx@wgate.fisica.unimi.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:14 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:29:36 uh oh, my plan comes crashing down with "fork can't fork with multiple threads running" 16:30:49 josemanuel [~josemanue@230.218.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:32:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-95-88.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:32:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:44 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 16:34:36 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-156-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:42 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-69-95.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:16 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Quit: restarting emacs] 16:42:41 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:45:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:46:07 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:47:53 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 16:49:03 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:49:27 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:52:29 jocke_pirat [~kgarricks@c-75-73-84-128.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:49 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:53:48 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:54:06 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:56:42 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:58:20 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:00:49 maxm-: sorry: what are you doing to trace the calls? thx 17:01:10 pnpuff: no just have this stupid idea of dumping a core from a running slime session 17:01:14 splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has joined #lisp 17:01:20 morning 17:01:39 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:02:09 coz my app getting big, and it actually takes several minutes to load from each restart.. I don't like buildapp approach, because I want to do it interactively, kind of like, "take a dump here, with x.y.z working" 17:02:34 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-243.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:02:57 I actually got the fork and exit with multiple threads running, in a way that will probably horrify SBCL devs :-) I just (setq *all-threads* (last *all-threads*)), and it seems makes everyone happy 17:03:07 and close all file descriptors obviously. Have not tried dumping yet 17:03:39 gonna run GC next 17:03:51 maxm-: maybe my clisp recently compiled does not support MT. I do not know if i missed some flags before compilation... 17:04:01 its SBCL not clisp 17:04:16 I kmow, but now I'm using clisp 17:04:51 so what is teh prob you having, i'm missing context here 17:05:20 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-44-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:07:13 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 maxm-: in *FEATURES* I do not have :MT symbol... so MT is not working 17:07:59 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:05 pnpuff: I never actually used MT on Clisp, perhaps you want to wait for pjb, he is Clisp junkie 17:09:49 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:49 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:09:49 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:14:12 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-mkwulkpziyscecbs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:02 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-68-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:53 maxm-: omg, I missed http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/mt.html :( 17:17:22 the compile time flag --with-threads 17:18:24 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-35-230.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:18:57 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-68-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:26 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 17:19:49 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-203-12.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:36 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-088-069-119-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 17:21:36 brown` [user@nat/google/x-wzokfhhtmgexrotn] has joined #lisp 17:21:48 I'm having problems loading lispbuilder-sdl on ECL. It says lispbuilder-sdl-cffi doesn't exist, and yet it is there 17:22:38 AeroNotix [~xeno@abor69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:28:47 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@230.218.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:00 y5h [~textual@116.36.42.92] has joined #lisp 17:31:23 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:32:16 josemanuel [~josemanue@161.43.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:33:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:36:29 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37:44 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 17:41:27 Denommus: What does it actually say? 17:42:44 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:53 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:32 Condition of type: SIMPLE-PACKAGE-ERROR There exists no package with name "LISPBUILDER-SDL-CFFI" 17:46:42 it's not a dependency of lb-sdl?... 17:46:56 dwts [pid@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-grzcvgrwucioywja] has joined #lisp 17:48:25 but that's what it says 17:49:33 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:33 hi guys, which is the best resource for learn clos? If basic object oriented ideas are included even better 17:49:41 gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:50:55 dwts: sonya keene's Object Oriented Programming in CL 17:50:56 Denommus: the error seems to mean that lispbuilder-sdl-cffi isn't loaded, but something is trying to use a package with that name. 17:51:18 dwts: PCL has a couple of nice intro chapters, too. 17:51:23 Xach: i got it, after i couldn't read the bad online print anymore..... 17:51:28 I just found out that HANDLER-BIND with a typespec T doesn't catch an ASSERT. What would I need to use instead? 17:51:29 lol 17:51:46 Xach: thanks i'll check it 17:51:48 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:50 this error happens when I try to load lispbuilder-sdl 17:51:59 Denommus: right 17:52:08 sykopomp: you mean practical common lisp? 17:52:09 which means, to me, that there's a messed up dependency somewhere. 17:52:12 dwts: yes 17:52:14 ok 17:52:15 :) 17:52:16 thanks 17:52:19 np 17:52:19 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:33 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:53:58 sykopomp: lispbuilder-sdl depends on lispbuilder-sdl-base, which in turn depends on lispbuilder-sdl-cffi 17:54:19 flip214: it does catch the assert error 17:54:25 which HAS an .asd inside of lispbuilder-sdl's folder 17:54:44 Denommus: something's loading funny then 17:54:50 because that's what the error means 17:56:00 Bike: hmmm, the swank debugger gets activated - I'd like to avoid that, therefore I tried the HANDLER-BIND. 17:56:17 -!- bitonic [~user@97e105e8.skybroadband.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:56:45 flip214: (handler-case (assert nil) (t () "hi")) => "hi" 17:56:45 flip214: if you use handler-bind, you need to do non-local exits yourself. 17:57:01 otherwise, the error will continue into the debugger (or whatever higher handler) 17:57:08 handler-case will actually "catch" it. 17:57:22 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 17:57:22 sykopomp: I'm trying to catch _any_ errors, and want to push them on a list for later inspection. 17:57:29 so why does the debugger still kick in? 17:57:36 because you're not exiting 17:57:39 what am I missing? 17:57:46 flip214: use handler-case. 17:57:51 handler-bind sets up a handler to be run, but that handler doesn't exit the context if you don't have it do so 17:58:00 sykopomp: lispbuilder-sdl-cffi is being defined in ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/lispbuilder-20130312-svn/lispbuilder-sdl/cffi/package.lisp 17:58:03 handler-bind is lower level, and allows the condition to continue propagating. 17:58:07 this is really strange 17:59:18 sykopomp: thanks, handler-case does the trick. 17:59:25 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has joined #lisp 17:59:42 bike: so a (block ... (handler-bind ... (return-from block )) should do the trick 17:59:44 ? 17:59:52 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:02 just use handler-case 18:00:12 which basically does just that. 18:00:28 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:00:41 ok, thanks. 18:01:40 Although, AFAICR I had handler-case there, and had to (?) switch to handler-bind... hrmpf. 18:02:23 Ah, that was a simple IGNORE-ERRORS before HANDLER-BIND ... so then I got it wrong. 18:02:26 thanks! 18:03:01 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-203-12.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:21 leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has joined #lisp 18:03:42 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 18:03:50 handler-bind sees exception before stack is unwound, and handler case after.. So handler bind is like a signal handler, that is it can return to whatever happened, and handler-case is like if signal handler which did longjmp, you know the error, but can't fix it and go back 18:03:58 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:02 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:15 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:18 -!- splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has quit [Quit: Hasta luego!] 18:09:56 the most funny thing is that other implementations are capable of loading it 18:09:58 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:02 only SDL isn't 18:10:10 s/only SDL/only ECL/ 18:11:48 Why is that funny? ECL is kind of a fringe implementation. 18:12:15 It's getting better and better all the time but it is not very popular. 18:12:22 it's kind of strange that asdf would silently fail to load a system. 18:12:30 or load them in the wrong order. 18:13:43 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:14:40 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:40 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:40 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:15:48 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-156-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:01 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hfjmclinkxyijkgu] has joined #lisp 18:17:25 systems sometimes have things like #-ecl foo 18:17:46 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:18:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 18:20:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:21:54 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 18:22:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:22:59 sdemarre [~serge@133.83-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:24:41 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 18:25:07 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:16 koko_ [5218f3ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.24.243.236] has joined #lisp 18:25:32 -!- koko_ [5218f3ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.24.243.236] has left #lisp 18:35:24 Xach: that's the problem with sbcl, a moving target 18:35:35 bhyde [~bhyde@static-70-20-25-74.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:41 I won't be able to have a look at it before the week end :-( 18:35:52 put there are even good snipers... ^^ 18:36:32 s/put/but 18:36:48 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@static-70-20-25-74.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:37:22 bhyde [~bhyde@static-70-20-25-74.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:48 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:39:55 -!- Gr1zzly [Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-238-24.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:45 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:00 Grizzly [~Grizzly@ABayonne-651-1-328-254.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:45:30 -!- jocke_pirat [~kgarricks@c-75-73-84-128.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:47:06 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 18:48:49 sniper is a full time job. 18:49:49 http://www.etherdream.org/public/articles/sarajevo.jpg 18:50:33 pbj, there was a very touching AMA on reddit of a person that lived through that 18:50:35 xadd [~xxad@host-VLEP3x-158.dhcp.stevens-tech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:51:00 Yes, it was terrible. A shame for the occident in general, and Europe in particular. 18:53:08 Is there a sniper in the picture? 18:53:41 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:24 adelgado: yes. Guess what window! :-) 18:55:46 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:56:19 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:01 <|3b|> the on-topic window? 18:58:40 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:44 senj [~senj@S0106c8fb26452061.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:55 the one with the parenthesis sticking out of it 18:59:28 pjb: I'm failing to build clisp with threads, do I found this: http://www.build-threads.com/ 18:59:42 anyway looks interesting... 19:02:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 -!- gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:03:50 -!- gor[e] [~svr@79.165.187.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:12 gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:05:16 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:11:29 -!- namtsui`` [~user@108.226.191.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:57 namtsui`` [~user@108.226.191.101] has joined #lisp 19:15:37 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:40 kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:16 zickzackv [~faot@g225057212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:31 normanrichards [~normanric@71.22.108.187] has joined #lisp 19:18:19 hi, which pattern matcher would you recommend using? cl-match, fare-matcher, optima and arnesi seems like the most possible alternatives. 19:18:55 *sykopomp* likes optima the most. 19:19:26 kenanb: +1 for optima (particularly with the backquote and cl-ppcre add ons) 19:20:12 works best if your package uses it 19:20:44 -!- Grizzly is now known as Gr1zzly 19:21:37 hmm, optima it is, thanks sykopomp bhyde :) 19:24:05 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 19:25:08 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:03 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@71.22.108.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:27 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@54.41.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:28:46 vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has joined #lisp 19:28:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:29:58 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 19:31:13 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@161.43.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:31:27 -!- vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:39 can anyone point me at real-world code that uses optima? I find pattern-matching interesting, but not sure when I would use it 19:31:49 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@54.41.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:59 josemanuel [~josemanue@54.41.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:32:21 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:33 jasom: it makes more sense when you've used languages that rely on pattern matching more heavily. 19:33:40 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:34:11 sykopomp: only place I've run into it is haskell, which I haven't really used much 19:34:52 vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has joined #lisp 19:35:51 jlongster [~user@50-201-41-253-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:50 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 19:37:46 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 19:38:57 erlang too.. but indeed I don't find pattern matching useful in bread-and-butter lisp code 19:40:01 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:14 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 19:43:29 sorry, but what is the difference between (asdf:load-system "optima") and (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :optima) ? 19:43:44 squat 19:44:15 oh, apparently there's an asdf:*load-system-operation* that affects it 19:46:43 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-178-140-78-173.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 19:47:44 xadd_ [~xxad@host-VLEP3x-158.dhcp.stevens-tech.edu] has joined #lisp 19:48:24 affects who? 19:48:38 laod-system 19:48:48 jasom: I've mainly used it in erlang. The biggest use case I see is being able to destructure lots of things easily. 19:49:09 francogrex [~user@91.182.136.212] has joined #lisp 19:49:15 as opposed to having (let ((x (accessor-foo ...)) (y (accessor-bar ...))) ...) 19:49:21 (asdf:load-system system ...keys...) is literally (apply 'operate *load-system-operation* system keys) 19:49:30 Hydan` [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:49:37 now is clear... 19:49:51 (a little bit more clear at least) 19:49:56 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:03 danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:18 madalu` [~user@wcnat-100-197.wheaton.edu] has joined #lisp 19:51:51 Anarch_ [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:06 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:53:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@dh207-62-134.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:53:15 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:31 cYmen__ [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 19:53:32 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:54:04 satshabad_ [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:41 -!- xadd [~xxad@host-VLEP3x-158.dhcp.stevens-tech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:41 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:41 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:41 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:41 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:42 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:43 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:46 -!- danlentz_ is now known as danlentz 19:55:25 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 19:55:34 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:55:50 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 19:56:53 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-44-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:57:37 Bike: sorry, how can I do to understand what "literary" does a given form? 19:57:47 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:58:19 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 19:58:27 just look at the definition of load-systme 20:00:33 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.136.212] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:01:11 Bike: ok, thank so M-. is what I need ... 20:01:17 *thanks 20:04:32 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboi145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:06:35 -!- vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:06:44 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abor69.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:05 vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has joined #lisp 20:07:30 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:07:39 ... omg, asdf.lisp is an universe ... oO 20:10:46 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:46 tcr1 [~tcr@78.186.252.238] has joined #lisp 20:11:25 for some reason, "an universe" sounds totally wrong to me 20:11:38 and I don't have a good explanation why 20:12:26 oh. the "you" sound starts with a y. weird. 20:12:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-69-95.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:35 we return you to our regularly scheduled topic. 20:13:02 -!- satshabad_ [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:10 yes. you do it by sound, not by letter. 20:13:38 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-69-95.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:41 -!- Tarential is now known as TheSpiderHunter 20:13:55 -!- TheSpiderHunter is now known as Tarential 20:14:08 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:12 -!- vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 20:14:20 -!- abend is now known as abendafk 20:14:23 ok dloew, "an universe" because for me there is a little bit to learn... 20:14:33 *dlowe 20:14:35 vhost-_ [vhost-@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:a667] has joined #lisp 20:15:01 dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-13-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:32 foom: it wasn't obvious that uni started with a consonant sound 20:16:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:16:18 dlowe: [j] 20:16:40 davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:56 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:11 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-229-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:07 [a-n] universe 20:18:28 _a_ universe.. ok .. I was wrong 20:18:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@133.83-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:19:07 good to know, thanks dlowe : you're a good lexer at least :-) 20:20:33 jasom: https://gist.github.com/bhyde/5673492#file-gistfile1-txt-L32 in that code I pull an htm page from ebay, convert it to an sexrp, recurse over the sexpr using optima's match to find the div's that contain prices; which i then collect 20:20:42 anyway, yeah. asdf.lisp is huge, but it pretty much needs to be in one file to be practical 20:21:05 though I guess it could do the old (progn (load ...)(load...)(load...)) of the old days 20:21:16 i just _love_ how easy it's become to throw together code like that... 20:21:30 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboi145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:21:46 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboi145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:21:48 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@static-70-20-25-74.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 20:24:00 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:29:17 like magic! 20:30:02 dlowe: it's worth being large to include image lifecycle management and genera support 20:31:59 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:32:01 -!- hpd [~hpd@v22010117464441099.yourvserver.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:52 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-224-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:31 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:04 -!- senj [~senj@S0106c8fb26452061.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: so it goes] 20:36:36 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-201-219.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:31 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:37:34 senj [~senj@S0106c8fb26452061.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:37 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:38:47 ASau` [~user@p5797F146.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:55 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:58 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:44 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96C29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:36 -!- davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:50 pnpuff_ [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:44:02 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:41 Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 20:45:42 -!- brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:45:43 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:56 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:14 brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:05 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:48:15 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 20:49:04 asdf is a single file only when distributed, the sources are many files 20:49:54 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@78.186.252.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:51:06 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:51:47 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 20:53:55 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:54:16 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:02 whats a good name for a system that abuses slime to dump executable, without restarts or interrupts 20:57:13 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:57:46 slimy-goop 20:57:50 image-ejection 20:58:16 current-image-dump 20:58:17 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-178-140-78-173.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:01 meh just gonna call it slime-forker or such.. Coz I'll also export (run-in-forked-lisp CONT) 20:59:06 guess-image-content-now 20:59:41 main advantage is it kills all slime threads, then silently restores them, without any interruption to repl or suchh 21:00:05 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:17 maybe SBCL will eventually get ability to fork with threads, its not really that big deal, just need to cleanup C side thread list 21:01:47 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:02:38 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 21:02:39 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:04 -!- gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: gravitation] 21:04:10 maxm: Forking with threads in not a good idea. 21:06:11 forking with threads is one of those almost unsolved problems in programming 21:06:23 not even OS developers are sure on how to handle this 21:06:41 see Tanenbaum 21:07:09 he writes great books 21:08:04 tcr1 [~tcr@78.186.252.238] has joined #lisp 21:08:06 forking with threads is possible as long as we won't clone mutexes :) 21:08:57 ryoshu: what 21:09:43 -!- dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-13-40.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:09:50 davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:52 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:27 -!- pnpuff_ is now known as pnpuff 21:12:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:13:12 -!- davazp [~user@213.37.200.68.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:15 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:13:51 -!- epsylon [~epsylon@2a00:dcc0:eda:98:216:3cff:fea1:ce4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:52 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:39 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 21:15:54 epsylon [~epsylon@abbaye.thele.me] has joined #lisp 21:17:16 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:29 -!- abendafk is now known as abend 21:18:26 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e78e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:30 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:02 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-203-12.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:33 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:48 maxm - lucid-dreaming :) 21:24:56 brown`: yea found that already, thats why I'm doing stop all threads / start them again thing 21:25:20 its sad you can't abuse SBCL's gc for this. It already got "stop-the-world" 21:27:58 hi folks, is there already a tool that'll "harden" a project or environment? 21:28:12 oh 21:28:24 I guess I'd just save a core after loading all my deps 21:28:43 because I was thinking about development, potentially deployment 21:29:19 the original thought in my head was something akin to virtualenv or *gasp* maven 21:29:25 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:51 where you'd have a file that describes a "build" including systems you need by version or just whatever is in quicklisp 21:30:31 it would just copy these to a project specific path and when you init the project it would add this path to where asdf looks for systems 21:31:14 I was thinking about this because of the fact that quicklisp isn't something bundled with lisps, and using require doesn't resolve any packages for you 21:31:45 -!- madalu` [~user@wcnat-100-197.wheaton.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:49 -!- y5h [~textual@116.36.42.92] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 21:31:56 *maxm-* is doing something similar, there is buildapp 21:32:14 you give it a list of systems to load, it loads them, then generates executable 21:32:15 it could be handy to have this type of a project definition in a repo rather than people having to constantly try to load the system and get each dependency that can't be found 21:32:45 maxm-: I've seen buildapp... and it's *close* I guess. But it's also SBCL specific 21:33:08 I guess I'm a little envious of leiningen and pip 21:33:46 I guess you can hook into asdf, it has custom locations and all of that. You'll have to ship the source or .FASL's tho 21:34:02 also I think quicklisp has concept of distrubitions? 21:34:43 so you can make it load specific distribution, I assume Xach names them on each release, so you can make it "load all systems as they were at