00:03:24 maxm: yes 00:04:16 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-10-107.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 00:04:17 -!- cnl [~pony@176.241.231.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:04:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:31 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:10:34 fe[nl]ix: why on earth does bordeaux-threads attempt to behave like there's threads on a thread-less SBCL? 00:10:45 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12:05 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:12:11 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-37.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 00:12:48 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:06 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.180] has joined #lisp 00:19:05 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:24 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:13 -!- regaluz [~regaluz@97.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: regaluz] 00:28:27 more like bordon't-threads 00:29:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:30:27 I was running hunchentoot/restas on a threadless SBCL by accident and it just hangs rather than signal an error or something 00:33:24 nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba45ca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:13 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:36:49 silkwood [a46f81e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.111.129.232] has joined #lisp 00:37:13 Can anyone tell me why this does not work? 00:37:15 (member 'b '('a 'b 'c)) 00:37:27 but this does: 00:37:34 (member 'b (list 'a 'b 'c)) 00:38:11 I really just need to know how I can get the first line to work 00:38:47 silkwood: Look at what '('a 'b 'c) evaluates too 00:38:59 silkwood: try (member 'b '(a b c)) 00:39:19 <|3b|> (member ''b '('a 'b 'c) :test 'equalp)? 00:40:27 <|3b|> or (member (list 'quote 'b) '('a 'b 'c) :test 'equalp)? 00:41:28 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:29 <|3b|> or maybe (member 'b '('a 'b 'c) :key 'second) 00:41:45 i see 00:41:54 thank you. I got it working :) 00:42:07 <|3b|> (not putting the extra QUOTEs inside the list in the first place would be the better solution though) 00:42:35 -!- nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:36 thats what I ended up doing 00:42:54 thank you 00:44:34 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@144.213.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 00:46:35 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@62.182.193.159] has joined #lisp 00:47:09 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:33 I have another question now though:) 00:48:10 how could I go through a list like (1 2 3 4 1 2 3 1 2) and replace all occurrences of (1 2) with a 3? 00:49:37 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:51:33 there are a number of ways, but some are more fun, elegant, or versatile than others 00:51:45 you're basically describing a lookahead filter 00:52:39 the fun way is to use the series package 00:52:46 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:57 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.65.116] has joined #lisp 00:54:38 really? that seemed like something that would be more simple in lisp. Is another package really needed? 00:56:57 silkwood: it actually pretty easy to write using recursion or loop. 00:57:19 no, you just reminded me of a great example of that in series that I've been meaning to reread... 00:57:46 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:06 I'm afraid I've lost track of the link though 00:59:45 wheelsucker [~user@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:48 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 01:02:13 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 01:04:52 -!- bitonic [~user@2.221.9.18] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:07:04 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:27 leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has joined #lisp 01:16:50 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 01:23:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:27 -!- ManAmongHippos [8a1a4027@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.64.39] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:25:45 silkwood: without that sort of facility I would end up writing something with convoluted control flow that doesn't do a good job revealing the underlying intention of the code like so: http://paste.lisp.org/+2XXF 01:27:01 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@62.182.193.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:27:08 d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has joined #lisp 01:27:53 from what I've seen, state-machine-style logic tends to look about the same in any programming language 01:34:59 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 01:39:43 i took hitecnologys advice and wrote my own:) 01:39:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137284 01:39:50 seems o work 01:39:54 to* 01:41:48 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-143-79-42.range86-143.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:42:59 -!- itsnevereasy [~itsnevere@c-24-61-43-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:45 mutley89 [~mutley89@host31-54-196-149.range31-54.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:35 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 01:52:42 that basically works. change the first "cons" to "append" and you can replace with multiple items instead of just one if you like 01:52:44 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:13 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58:15 -!- quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:25 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:05 man, apparently common-lisp.net facelift did not include adding SPF checking 02:03:18 luis, fe[nl]ix I had sent a short patch to cffi-devel, that folds (foreign-type-size :int) and such to constants, hope it gets applied 02:03:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:03:30 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 02:03:34 -!- Dalek_Baldwin 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[~nialo@ool-18ba45ca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 03:09:10 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 03:09:15 Tribal [~Tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:01 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:12:14 Saurabh [~saurabh@202.164.57.114] has joined #lisp 03:12:21 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 03:12:32 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 03:12:38 Sm3lly [~Sm3lly@c-98-199-236-250.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:29 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:36 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 03:15:40 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 03:17:23 in clos, is it permissible or standard to have 2 methods of the same name specializing on different objects with different variables [implicit generic function)? would it raise errors on the generic function to have say: (defmethod update ((game game))) and (defmethod update ((entity entity))), or should i create a generic function like (defgeneric update (object))? sorry if this doesnt make sense....i rarely 03:17:26 use clos 03:18:15 the variable names don't matter, if that's what you mean 03:18:48 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:20:35 ok 03:21:08 stopping yourself from going over the top is the main problem with CLOS :-) its just that good 03:21:32 coz answer to "can I make this more generic" seems to be always "yes" 03:22:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.219] has joined #lisp 03:22:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.219] has quit [Changing host] 03:22:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:23:00 :) 03:24:42 is it common to list the generic functions in a separate file to view the whole api at a glance? 03:24:44 -!- Tribal [~Tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:24 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:25:46 to me yes, but style questions there as many answers as people usually 03:26:11 axion: separate file is your choice, but having a defgeneric can be a good idea if you want to document it 03:26:58 great 03:27:04 thanks guys 03:27:33 -!- Saurabh [~saurabh@202.164.57.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:28:45 Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:56 jcazeved_ [~jcazevedo@bl18-100-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:30:30 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-101-72.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:49 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:33:50 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@sun1093165.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:37:25 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.150.156.86] has joined #lisp 03:39:02 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-27-7.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:07 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:48 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-10-107.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:50:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.210.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:50:09 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.7] has joined #lisp 03:57:07 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-10-107.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 03:59:01 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:59:54 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:00:51 -!- silkwood [a46f81e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.111.129.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:02:52 -!- Sm3lly [~Sm3lly@c-98-199-236-250.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:03:52 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:04:44 primenum [~primenum@c-71-231-57-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:57 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.178] has joined #lisp 04:07:07 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:07:34 -!- Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:08:34 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:39 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:10:49 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-126.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:11:35 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:45 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:51 Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:06 suppose you have a set of features and you generate N trees where each of the N trees use a subset of the features. you feed in some x in order to classify what x is and each tree will give you some result. for example, pretend each evaluating x among any tree can result in a value in [0,1] where [0,1/2) means "risky customer" and [1/2, 1] means "non-risky customer". And you might take the vaerage value over all the trees in order to 04:13:06 classify x. What would be a technique for helping answer what features from any of the trees helped contribute to the customer being labeled risky? 04:13:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:14:00 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:39 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@31.185.160.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:21:03 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-252-226.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:23:25 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:24:17 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.7] has joined #lisp 04:25:58 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:27:13 -!- pierpa` [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:34:35 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:38:11 -!- youlysses is now known as youlysses-ZZz 04:39:01 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 04:48:27 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:50:23 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.150.156.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:54:20 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 04:54:29 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:40 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.159.176] has joined #lisp 05:05:37 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:07:03 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:10:26 teggi [~teggi@113.172.61.193] has joined #lisp 05:15:50 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-10-107.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 05:16:59 when i try to access a global variable, declared with 'defvar' i get an error, as CL is looking for a variable scoped to the current package??? 05:17:54 packages is namespacing, not scope 05:18:40 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:19:43 defvar doesn't create global variables 05:20:17 DataLinkDroid: oh! 05:20:41 fenton: what are you trying to do? 05:21:17 well, i'm setting a variable in my .sbclrc file that i want my code to have access to. 05:21:23 Common Lisp provides two ways to create global variables: DEFVAR and DEFPARAMETER. 05:21:40 thats a quote from Peter S., i think... 05:21:43 confused... 05:21:51 that's an oversimplification useful for learning. 05:22:07 Bike: lol...okay! 05:22:08 Anyway, be more specific about what the error is. 05:22:19 what they actually do is create a special variable in the current package 05:22:30 it is saying it's unbound...but its prefacing the variable with the package where I'm calling the variable. 05:23:05 fenton: and is that a different package from where you defined it? 05:23:07 DataLinkDroid: really?! interesting...so defvar's can only be used in the package in which they are declared? 05:23:11 no no no 05:23:13 Bike: yes 05:23:18 DataLinkDroid: don't mislead 05:23:43 fenton: There's your problem then, you have one-package:*foo* and other-package:*foo*, which are different symbols. 05:24:05 Bike: okay, i got confused by global...thought that would cross packages... 05:24:14 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:15 No. 05:24:25 ok cool...thanks guys!!! 05:27:11 bike: what do you mean by 'mislead'? 05:27:23 DataLinkDroid: defvar and defparameter don't care about packages. 05:28:30 they set the symbol-value of the name to a value. this symbol is in the current package, is it not? 05:28:40 (defvar foo:*bar*) 05:28:53 i never do that 05:28:58 But you can. 05:29:27 The fact that an unprefixed *bar* will be read as a symbol in the current package has nothing to do with defvar. 05:29:55 that is the way it is normally used 05:32:27 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:33:14 if we want to see misleading, perhaps talking about "global variables" in CL is that... or perhaps it is true enough as a rough approximation for learning! :) 05:33:17 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 05:33:51 there aren't global variables in CL, no, but PCL being fast and loose with that term isn't related to package confusion. 05:34:23 it certainly confused one learner... 05:34:25 Another question for you guys, how to dump the symbol table for a package? 05:34:53 clhs do-symbols 05:34:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm 05:35:07 Bike: thx! 05:35:34 do-external-symbols also 05:35:50 ok i'll look those up... 05:36:11 same page. 05:37:57 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 05:40:14 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010804.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:37 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 05:41:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:41:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:43:15 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:46:25 -!- youlysses-ZZz [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:31 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 05:49:29 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:30 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 05:57:54 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: l'unica verità.. è la morte stessa!] 05:58:22 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:13 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:30 pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:07:38 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:07:57 kdas__ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-kfozellgizhtyugx] has joined #lisp 06:08:35 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-7-69.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 06:09:18 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:34 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 06:09:34 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:09:34 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:10:01 Tanami_ [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 06:10:48 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:17:55 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 06:18:35 -!- ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:15 -!- primenum [~primenum@c-71-231-57-77.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:27:33 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:20 pnpuff_ [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:31:06 -!- pnpuff_ is now known as pnpuff- 06:31:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-78-193.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:33:35 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33:40 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-78-193.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:47 -!- pnpuff- is now known as pnpuff 06:35:27 gmcastil [~user@75-166-221-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:02 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-7-69.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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My real RE is ... somewhat complicated. 07:44:21 debugger invoked on a SB-INT:SIMPLE-FILE-ERROR in thread 07:44:21 #: 07:44:22 Can't create directory /home/jerryzhou/quicklisp/tmp/ 07:44:22 Type HELP for debugger help, or (SB-EXT:QUIT) to exit from SBCL. 07:44:22 restarts (invokable by number or by possibly-abbreviated name): 07:44:22 0: [RETRY ] Retry directory creation. 07:44:24 1: [CONTINUE] Continue as if directory creation was successful. 07:44:24 Having some fixed points (= no backtracking beyond this point) would make reasoning much easier 07:44:26 2: [ABORT ] Exit debugger, returning to top level. 07:44:28 (ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST 07:44:30 #P"/home/jerryzhou/quicklisp/tmp/" 07:44:32 :VERBOSE 07:44:36 NIL 07:44:38 :MODE 07:44:40 511) 07:44:42 it has a problem 07:44:44 flip214: well i mean, i don't think ppcre even uses backtracking 07:44:54 jerryzhou: use paste.lisp.org 07:44:57 jerryzhou: use http://paste.lisp.org/new 07:45:27 what is it mean 07:47:00 jerryzhou: look at the error message 07:47:13 jerryzhou: "Can't create directory /home/jerryzhou/quicklisp/tmp/" 07:47:21 yes 07:47:33 jerryzhou: maybe the directory is not writeable 07:47:43 chmod? 07:47:50 yes 07:48:34 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:41 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-146-53.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:49:26 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.65.116] has left #lisp 07:49:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002499.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:50:41 pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:50:52 what is the crap 07:50:56 i am crazy 07:51:07 heh 07:51:14 i had installed before but this time i reinstall slackware 07:51:25 and now it has mistakes 07:51:37 i am crazy 07:52:15 jerryzhou: why do you not install gentoo linux instead? 07:52:37 i dnot know how to install and it is not easy 07:52:44 here the network is shit 07:53:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:48 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:52 jerryzhou: why you no use red flag linux? 07:54:13 jdz: that was a trolling discussion 07:55:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:57:24 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2CF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:58:20 sellout-1 [~Adium@pat-ip-195-91-108-212.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 08:00:23 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pat-ip-195-91-111-4.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:05:57 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 08:09:57 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2CF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:10:57 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2CF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:11:17 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:48 -!- nug700 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fenton1 [~fenton@ppp-110-168-10-107.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:04:29 When I should use require and provide? I've seen lots of them in plugins for my emacs but when I used them into my lisp project, people here recommended me not to use require to load asdf systems. What are these functions for? 11:06:42 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:08:33 hitecnologys: they are not especially useful in common lisp 11:08:40 hitecnologys: emacs lisp is a different story. 11:09:16 hitecnologys: it's one of those "deprecated" features that actually got deprecated in portable code 11:09:56 But their names look so cool that I just can't understand why so nicely named function should be deprecated. 11:10:18 hitecnologys: that's not how things get deprecated. 11:10:59 hitecnologys: Their semantics are not so nice. 11:11:10 the semantics of one-argument REQUIRE are barely specified, and the semantics of two-argument REQUIRE are so restrictive as not to be easily applicable. 11:11:38 But long time ago people used them, right? 11:11:40 maybe there is a trick that makes it useful in some context. if anyone would have a trick, it would be pjb, but he would possibly lard it up with dumb ideas. 11:12:01 lol 11:12:03 hitecnologys: Yes, in the days where you had a single monolithic codebase, it was good enough. 11:12:42 so, now we have asdf instead of require/provide? 11:12:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:23 hitecnologys: Pretty much. Maybe eventually xcvb. 11:13:34 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:14:08 Nice, thanks. 11:18:17 require/provide should have never been added to the spec.. 11:19:24 xcvb not getting the adoption, and I know why.. Several times I looked at "checked out xcvb" todo item, and thought to myself "out of lisp image compilation? not today".. Its asking us to give up addictive crack-cocaine gratification of modyfying your live image, for clean and "obviously proper" clean out of process compilation.. In abstract theory everyone says "yea 2nd way is way to go", but still won't switch 11:21:09 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:23:29 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pat-ip-195-91-110-212.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:24:28 pnpuff_ [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 11:26:05 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 11:26:23 maxm: your cffi patch, it'd be better to use (define-compiler-macro (... &environment env) ... (constantp ... env) ...) 11:26:32 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 11:27:35 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:44 although, EVAL doesn't care about environment 11:27:48 stassats`: well I just cut-n-pasted other define-compiler-macro's in CFFI, so that goes for all of them.. Does it make a diff? I don't remember any other define-compiler-macro I seen, that used (constantp env) in any project 11:27:54 -!- nalkri [~root@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:27:56 Btw, what is &environment key? I see it everywhere. Is this some kind of hack to set lexical bindings? 11:28:43 hitecnologys: it gives an implementation specific compilation environment, where things like macrolets are defined 11:28:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:11 I actually use it on SBCL in log4cl, for extracting the current source block name, where code is being expanded 11:29:14 maxm: and how can I use this? 11:29:51 hitecnologys: you pass it to functions like macroexpand, for example with the correct environment, macroexpand will be able to expand macrolets 11:30:22 or you use it in implementation specific manner, ie SBCL has internal functions to access various stuff in environment 11:31:02 its mostly used in code walking I think 11:31:29 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:38 are there any example code for this? 11:31:50 I would look at any code walker, like arnesi 11:31:51 passing environment to constantp can expand macros, for example 11:31:53 or iterate 11:32:25 stassats`: hmm actually I guess maybe all compiler macros in CFFI need to be changed then 11:32:36 stassats`: you should raise cffi issue 11:32:53 -!- pnpuff_ [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33:04 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:28 but, that would be a problem when constantp expands a local macro, then eval won't be able to expand it 11:34:07 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-136-120.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:34:19 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:34:29 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:34 so, you have to expand things yourself, see an example in clhs 11:35:06 ok, thanks 11:35:51 i wouldn't probably use eval, just symbolp 11:38:21 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@176.62.116.6] has joined #lisp 11:39:09 foreign-type-size can be result of someone doing macro expansion like `(foreign-type-size ',type), in which case it will be (foreign-type-size (quote :int)), which is not symbolp, but should be handled 11:39:54 just shows that compiler macros suck 11:40:07 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@62.182.193.159] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:40:29 well they allow just enough hackery to achieve practical performance, which is what counts 11:40:51 sometimes 11:41:05 no constant propagation, no type derivation can be exploited 11:41:55 ah actually that reminds me 11:42:27 I think Slime threads window, C-k should immediately nuke the line with the thread it sent kill for, instead of doing refresh 11:42:43 refresh can come back anywhere from 0.2 to 1 second later 11:42:49 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 11:43:36 so when i need to kill 2 threads, I press C-k on one, wait half a second, then instinctively do Down arrow, C-k again, and refresh arrives millisecond before 2nd C-k is pressed, so I kill wrong thread 11:44:32 you could nuke the line, _and_ send refresh I guess 11:45:08 did you know that you can select two lines and kill them simultaneously? 11:45:27 ? I thought i tried that, let me try again 11:46:12 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:25 when I tried, I'm getting "value NIL is not of type unsigned byte" sldb exception, from (swank::nth-thread nil) 11:46:56 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:47:19 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:47:32 must be something broken in the new emacs again 11:47:57 but my point still stands, as often threads you want to kill are not sequential 11:48:25 so you do C-k, then use arrow key to move several up or down to arrive at the next one, and refresh hits just before next C-k is pressed 11:48:48 its just basic usability, I killed wrong thread like 5 times yesterday 11:49:10 just hold you horses 11:49:46 or you'll kill even more wrong threads, if you're going to go through an old list 11:50:04 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:50:16 there are many libraries. what's the most Lisp-style way to do a graphical window? 11:50:23 do doth remove the line, and send refresh 11:50:35 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:51:18 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:51:20 the most lisp way would be clim, but the most practical way is commonqt.. Some ppl use ltk too 11:51:22 maxm: that's not going to change anything 11:51:33 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:51:51 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:53 stassats`: it will, because C-k feedback (line removed) is immediate, instead of having a slight random delay 11:52:14 maxm: well, i thought you were concerned about killing wrong threads 11:52:25 so, what you propose won't help here 11:53:09 I was just looking into commonqt, especially because I'm currently using kde (supports two equally-important monitors more than the other window-based (rather than tile-based) desktops, e.g. independent desktop backgrounds and two complete panels that can mirror each other even on notifications) 11:53:28 (and this one is overlooked on some: opens the application on the monitor it's launched from) 11:53:56 (on the other hand, it has tons of bugs and eats tons of RAM) 11:54:27 stassats`: it will, does not it send all requests pipelined? Ie (terminate-thread 5) (get list of threads again)? maybe 11:54:40 no, it's concurrent 11:55:14 well thats no good.. combine them into 1 call? (progn (terminate-thread) (list-all-threads)) 11:55:22 well, unless you have (setq slime-inhibit-pipelining t) 11:55:40 maxm: why isn't clim practical? 11:55:50 maxm: just wait until the thread disappears 11:56:21 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:56:42 aeth: i like clim 11:56:59 aeth: hard to answer without criticizing folks working on it, but it just not modern. Its like writing stuff with Motif or Athena toolkit. Your code will probably work, but all GUI concepts will be from 1980, and your interface will look accordinly 11:57:06 aeth: because the only open source and portable implementation is broken 11:57:15 hmm, mcclim has a bunch of "not actively maintained" red flags, like the first hyperlink being a deadlink ("specification") and using CVS. http://common-lisp.net/project/mcclim/ 11:57:26 maxm: you are confusing the interface, which has nothing to do with motif/athena.. 11:57:38 and the last news thing being 2008 11:57:44 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 11:57:59 well, last news about cl is from the 80s :-) 11:58:04 marijn [~user@ip54513edd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 11:58:22 *maxm* personally uses CommonQt, best of both worlds.. Its like you code in QT, but can modify your window live, as it is on the screen 11:58:28 aeth: my tip, try it... if you like it, use it.. if not use something else. 11:58:38 zorkmoid: there's a difference between the specification and the implementation. 5 years is a long time to go without a release. it has no bugs? 11:58:47 aeth: it is full of bugs 11:58:51 zorkmoid: the difference is that it was broken in 2008, and is broken now 11:58:52 aeth: lots of bugs, like anything else in the world. 11:59:03 stassats`: and i still use it, and i fixed most of the normal bugs. 11:59:21 aeth: full of bugs, hard to learn, interfaces look awful 11:59:24 zorkmoid: right, so is there e.g. a bugfix fork on github? 11:59:27 aeth: but it is cool other than that. 11:59:35 aeth: i don't have a github account. 11:59:54 aeth: the one in cvs isn't as horrible as people purport it to be.. 12:00:00 well, there's also common-lisp.net and gitorious and bitbucket and... 12:00:14 aeth: i still don't have an account on any of those sites 12:00:36 aeth: just don't bother with mcclim 12:00:44 major issue i found with clim is that it doesn't use keywords :-( 12:00:49 aeth: you have nothing to gain but sorrow 12:01:11 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 12:01:11 say, is there a declare directive that turns off 'unreachable code' notes for a block of code? 12:01:26 marijn: muffle-warnings or something? 12:01:41 marijn: sounds implementation specific 12:01:44 marijn: (sb-ext:muffle-conditions sb-ext:compiler-note) 12:01:54 zorkmoid: whether or not cvs is good, it has a bad reputation and so most projects have been ported to svn, git, hg, etc. in fact, some projects went cvs->svn->git. 12:02:11 a thriving FOSS project usually at some point has someone convince the mailing list to switch. 12:02:18 aeth: i don't understand what that means, what does the vcs have to do with reputation? 12:02:45 aeth: mcclim would be as awful with git too 12:02:48 well, it's just one way to tell how active a project is. obviously, only useful in combination with tons of other heuristics (like last release, design/navigability of the site, etc.) 12:03:25 aeth: you're firmly in off-topic land now. 12:03:54 H4ns: yes, sorry. 12:04:28 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:11 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:06:33 finding a way to integrate Qt Quick 2 with lisp sounds like a good idea 12:07:34 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:37 exposing lisp through QML 12:08:30 qt quick sounds actually interesting... 12:08:34 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:09:36 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:23 stassats`: thanks, that was what I was looking for 12:12:24 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-195-147-108.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:15:07 yes, qt quick seems like an interesting idea. 12:16:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:18:00 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-146-53.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:20:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21:14 lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.112.90] has joined #lisp 12:22:20 fsvehla [~fsvehla@046207134062.atmpu0029.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:53 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:10 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:27:08 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:29:56 pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 12:32:00 -!- hkBst_ 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[~xan@80.174.78.241.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:14 Heya all (: So I'm new to cl, but not to the idea of lisp in general, and I was wondering what a good way to become acquainted with idiomatic code would be. In particular, how should I treat the global namespace, should I aim for lots of little functions and rely on composing them or wrap things away in neat boxes under bigger chunks, is it more acceptable to loop than recurse and so on. Any pointers? 16:31:20 aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:32:14 hiato: the only global namespace is the package namespace. It's fine to loop. Opinions vary as to appropriate function size 16:32:56 Of course, the best way is to look at a lot of lisp code 16:33:22 Getting lisp-critic to run is also a fun way to find places in your code that are non-idiomatic 16:33:29 I mean, I'm currently at a point in the code where I feel (coming from Haskell) that I should really not be juggling strings and pass symbols around instead, is there opinion on this (in Haskell my gut says type safety, but that's not really a concern here)? 16:33:58 hiato: I've written only one recursive function in the past year, and I've been unisg CL almost exclusively. Loop is fine :) Go to https://github.com/languages/Common%20Lisp and pick a repo, read it, or even better clone it and start exploring with slime 16:34:07 Symbols are great if you never want to treat them as a sequence of characters 16:34:13 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:20 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 16:34:28 dlowe: hrmm, ok, coll. This lisp critic sounds fun. This may be strange but, any recommendations as to a really /nice/ piece of CL code to read? 16:34:45 pavelpenev: cool, that sounds like a good plan 16:34:52 dlowe: right, makes sense 16:35:19 hiato: start with the non-compiler bits of sbcl source code 16:35:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:33 <|3b|> symbols are also good if a given sequence of characters always represents the same thing, since you can have distinct strings containing the same characters 16:35:51 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@mnhm-4d011bb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:13 hiato: I've had some fun going through parts of restas and hunchentoot, and I found the postmodern source to be a good example for metaclass usage. 16:36:14 <|3b|> (you can have distinct symbols with the same name too, but usually the point of creating a symbol is to just have 1) 16:36:41 dlowe: cool, I will check that out 16:36:59 pavelpenev: hmm, thanks for the suggestions, they're on my reading list now :P 16:37:07 |3b|: right, right, ok this makes good sense 16:37:55 scharan [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:38:13 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:15 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD2CF5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:26 thanks all, you've been helpful, now for some reading! 16:38:44 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:38:53 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:39:00 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:04 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:39:08 Kobain [~kobian@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 16:39:10 -!- Kobain [~kobian@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 16:39:10 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:39:16 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:39:31 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:39:39 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:39:41 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has joined #lisp 16:39:54 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:40:04 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:40:10 (basically, I read a tad of SICP and LoL and didn't quite find them as gripping as I would have liked, more hard work than anything. Just today, though, it struck me that the most important programmes with which I interact are actually all in a lisp and most of them are configure in lisp too, so I actually have plenty of motivation to become proficient) 16:40:20 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:40:28 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:40:42 minion: tell hiato about pcl 16:40:43 hiato: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 16:40:44 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:40:52 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:41:08 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:41:17 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:41:29 dlowe: ooh, shiny. I was unaware of this book. This looks more like what I would like 16:41:32 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:41:39 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:41:41 ta 16:41:44 tesuji [~tesuji@mnhm-4d011bb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 16:42:34 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 16:44:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.210.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:45:48 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8593d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:48 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 16:46:54 diegoo [~diegoo@99-163-126-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 16:47:14 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 16:49:49 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8593d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:41 -!- d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-khbltpqhkeujwpgn] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:50:59 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:00 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 16:51:29 -!- SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-duoeyuqptykjoegr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:30 I know its most common to use emacs with slime for writing lisp but I'm more comfortable in vim (personal pref but I'm not dogmatic about it). I know vim has some plugins that are supposed to be like slime but does anyone know if they are any good? or is it worth it to just get comfortable with emacs when writing lisp? 16:51:44 -!- pw_ [uid2072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cvjzefqtpdqdjvyk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:51:46 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:55 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:18 -!- ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wfxttmblcmoaizmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:52:18 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xlghewvposvlkxme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:52:37 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtdpfwakbnyghjhu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:53:45 pnpuff_ [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:54:00 adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:30 kennyheaton: That's a matter of taste, and also of how much effort you want to put into convenience functions and custom integration between your editor and your implementation. 16:55:43 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:56:00 There are some emacs users out there who don't like to use slime, but do use common lisp, for example. 16:56:04 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:56:30 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 16:56:35 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:46 *nicdev* just installed paredit for the second time and trying to wra 16:56:59 kennyheaton: emacs is included in blfs if you want it... and it's higly advised use emacs and slime to programming in lisp :) 16:57:03 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:39 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:13 Recommended, sure, but by no means required. 16:58:27 ikki [~ikki@187.208.214.214] has joined #lisp 16:58:44 kennyheaton: there are a couple people here who use slime and emacs with a vi-like mode (evil). 17:00:31 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:09 nyef: That makes sense I guess I'm just asking (as someone newer to lisp) what's to road to the least amount of pain to setting up my environment. emacs is recommended but I'd have to learn a new editor 17:01:21 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 17:01:35 kennyheaton: I use emacs+evil for lisp and vim for everything else 17:02:06 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:02:25 pkhoung: I'll have to check out evil, I hadn't heard of it 17:03:04 kennyheaton: it's a fairly full-fledged vim emulation layer; way better than the half-assed "vi mode" that some IDEs have 17:03:10 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 17:03:27 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:41 kennyheaton: Only thing you don't get are the vim extensions (but emacs has equivalents for all the ones I use) 17:03:55 of course vim is included by default in lfs... but this choice is questionable... 17:04:05 -!- callinguu [~callinguu@ip-1-157.gemini.net.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:05:44 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 17:06:12 jasom: thanks that sounds like a good option for me 17:07:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 17:07:55 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 17:08:00 -!- pnpuff_ [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:08:45 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 17:08:57 pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:09:13 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 17:09:37 foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 17:10:21 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:00 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 17:11:51 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:13 anyone here uses L subset od CL for the embedded systems? 17:12:22 s/od/of/ 17:12:55 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:30 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-78-193.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:27 any opinion about L? ... It's useful or it's only a waste of time? 17:15:48 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:54 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 17:17:31 -!- Vicfred [~anon@189.232.52.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:18:29 Is it something we've even heard of? 17:18:37 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 17:19:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002499.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:19:43 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:21:00 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:21:20 nyef: I was reading a pdf: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chuck/pubpg/luv95.pdf .... anyway I'm just curious. 17:21:24 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 17:22:04 pnpuff, is not dead? 17:22:14 is from '95 17:22:45 Hrm. No idea if it's a waste of time or not, but I think that I might learn something from reading the paper at least. Thanks for the link. (-: 17:23:06 rszeno: I do not know, but unfortunately there is no trace of sources... 17:23:41 was commercial, i read the paper some time ago but i don't remember too much of it 17:23:49 -!- hagish [~hagish@host-88-217-174-111.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:40 *Quadrescence* is targeting a non-Common Lisp to an 8-bit homebrew CPU 17:26:00 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:28:53 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 17:30:41 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:51 Redjack [~mal@nat/hp/x-icqhnbmvgsdqiiek] has joined #lisp 17:32:23 zickzackv [~faot@g225053113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:25 nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 17:34:52 -!- hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@176.62.116.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:35:49 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:25 Is there any good example/reading of CL used for microcontrollers? 17:38:19 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:36 pnpuff, L what i found http://kremer.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/courses/AC/F2012/gettingCASA.html 17:38:46 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:38:59 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 17:39:03 and this one http://kremer.cpsc.ucalgary.ca/CASA/iRobotCreate3/dist/index.html 17:39:15 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:40:27 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:16 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:41:36 Thx rszeno ! 17:41:53 -!- cnl [~pony@176.241.231.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:41:58 welcome, :) 17:42:02 akovalenko [~user@77.51.76.204] has joined #lisp 17:42:52 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 17:43:15 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:44 pnpuff, i never had patience to try hedgehog 17:43:57 varjag_ [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hcdsgpqvyoitnvyq] has joined #lisp 17:44:24 pnpuff: stop-the-world gc seems like a non-starter for many embedded applications; though if you can bound your number of objects you can reason about the latency introduced 17:44:55 cnl [~pony@ppp-31-44-51-44.in-tel.ru] has joined #lisp 17:46:35 imo gc is not realy needed in lisp 17:46:49 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-195-147-108.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:37 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:49:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-83.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:50:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:50:47 ... 17:50:59 josemanuel_ [~josemanue@176.199.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:51:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.219] has joined #lisp 17:51:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.226.219] has quit [Changing host] 17:51:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:51:02 rszeno: anyway gc it's needed for MCUs (for example take a look at Picobit) 17:51:19 -!- akovalenko [~user@77.51.76.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:51:59 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@130.219.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52:17 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:52:25 -!- josemanuel_ [~josemanue@176.199.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:39 josemanuel [~josemanue@176.199.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:52:51 rszeno: I don't know how to respond to that, I really don't. 17:52:52 is practical to have gc, but i think is possible to avoid to have one 17:53:07 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:30 rszeno: it's hard to sneeze in lisp without consing 17:53:35 rszeno: I do not know much about it ... but I want learn ... 17:53:49 same mechanism used to infere types can be use to destruct them when you don't need 17:54:01 jasom: it's not a problem if you run on a turing machine 17:54:25 rszeno: I would call that garbage collection 17:54:56 rszeno: also what happens when you return a closure? You need to be able to destruct all the variables that are closed over too 17:54:56 it is but is not the classical one, :) 17:55:21 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:55:29 rszeno: it's also possible to avoid defining functions .. so not really necessary either! 17:55:49 closure are about syntax too, :) 17:55:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:01 oGMo, sure, :) 17:56:14 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 17:56:29 jasom: if realtime is a concern, implement a realtime GC 17:56:38 so what is usable as Picobit on the CL side? 17:58:12 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:15 hello! PG says he never needed objects (i guess he means GF here) so how does he do the dispatching? If he checks type then redirects the appropriate functions how does he do black box kind of locality? Or maybe he doesn't care locality? thanks! 17:58:36 nan-: #lisp doesn't care about PG 17:58:45 ask pg 17:58:51 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 17:59:05 is GF a Galois Field? 17:59:23 pnpuff: In #lisp, it is Generic Function. 17:59:30 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 17:59:34 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:52 stassats`: i like his books, you mean shouldn't i take his words on technical subjects seriously? 18:00:03 yes i meant generic functions 18:00:11 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.178] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 pg is very idiosyncratic 18:00:25 nan-: The way he writes Common Lisp is idiosyncratic 18:00:45 i don't think many people here don't use clos 18:01:14 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:01:25 well, some people don't use garbage collectors, apparently, i won't be surprised to find those who don't believe in CLOS either 18:01:58 :P 18:02:05 Well, my codebase doesn't CLOS much, for performance reasons, but it ought to more than it does. (performance of clos is overall pretty good) 18:02:15 this particular claim of him very interesting i always wanted to know more about it but i have no idea where to look for :) 18:02:24 well, neither do we, is the point 18:02:34 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:24 i see. thanks! 18:04:30 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 18:04:41 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as zz_zz_runningsku 18:05:14 Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has joined #lisp 18:05:28 nan-: sorry but what is the book you was referring to? Can you paste me a link please? 18:06:09 pnpuff: sure, give me a minute 18:07:29 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:45 like pg has many books 18:08:00 pnpuff: not book but here is one http://www.paulgraham.com/noop.html, checking books now 18:08:06 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8593d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:13 When compiling sbcl using --with-sb-core-compression sb-concurrency fails to build. Any thoughts? 18:13:55 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.149.164] has joined #lisp 18:13:55 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:27 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:01 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@31.185.148.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:30 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:37 Thra11 [~Thra11@31.185.148.1] has joined #lisp 18:16:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:17:21 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 18:17:31 pnpuff: looks like that is the one, wasn't a book 18:17:51 Kenjin: that can't be related 18:18:15 Kenjin: are you on windows? 18:18:33 stassats`: I find it strange too. But if I remove the flag the build succeeds. This is on Ubuntu 18:18:53 so, bring the error message 18:19:27 you can find it in output/building-contrib.sb-concurrency 18:19:30 pierpa` [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:19:57 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:57 leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 stassats`: nice 18:20:19 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 18:20:48 -!- Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 18:20:55 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:05 Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has joined #lisp 18:21:12 stassats`: https://gist.github.com/jsmpereira/d36e7530bb48bf18802f 18:21:33 this seems familiar 18:22:01 is your machine under load? 18:23:01 no 18:23:08 is it slow? 18:23:20 its a VM, buts is alright 18:23:55 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:04 what kind of VM? 18:24:10 stassats`: is that error related to slow terminals? 18:24:12 parallers 18:24:16 parallels 18:24:26 -!- Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:24:46 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:02 Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has joined #lisp 18:25:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:26:27 i blame the vm 18:26:36 -!- Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:26:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:27:05 davazp [~user@31.200.128.17] has joined #lisp 18:28:12 stassats`: :) 18:28:40 parallels, is that on os x? can't you just run sbcl there? 18:29:23 maybe cross-compiling? 18:29:28 stassats`: I am ;) The VM is for linux work. 18:29:56 pnpuff: maybe you won't try to help when you can't 18:30:28 we can! 18:31:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:32:47 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-75-143.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:10 Kenjin: can you take that test and run it several times? 18:33:18 you need to change your package to sb-concurrency first 18:33:27 just copy the outermost let* 18:33:37 understood 18:34:07 from contrib/sb-concurrency/tests/test-gate.lisp 18:34:48 it probably just nondeterministic, nothing to do with core compression 18:34:49 ahah succeeded now :P 18:34:52 the compilation 18:35:03 some transient VM hickup? 18:35:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-78-193.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:35:18 the compilation succeeded both times, the test just fails 18:35:29 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:35:35 now it didnt 18:35:39 this time around 18:36:01 17 out of 17 contrib 18:36:03 :) 18:36:19 i wouldn't smile in your case 18:36:39 a nondeterministic failure is worse 18:36:46 yes indeed 18:37:15 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:30 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8593d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:38:47 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225053113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:39:56 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 18:40:19 Re-L [~Arttt@187-40-203-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:51 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:07 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-100-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:42:13 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:43:18 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-029-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:44:42 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:55 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:40 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-029-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:46 hagish [~hagish@p54895D15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:55 Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has joined #lisp 18:46:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 18:48:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:48:25 i'm trying cl-interpol, and now I don't seem to be able to find anything that makes slime and read tables play nice with each other  suggestions? 18:48:50 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:51 named-readtables 18:48:54 stassats`: (loop repeat 100 do (test.gate.2)) No errors 18:49:20 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 18:49:51 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:49:52 *bhyde* reading http://common-lisp.net/project/named-readtables/ 18:50:04 pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:50:14 -!- Krystof is now known as sbcl_Krystof 18:50:31 stassats`: Thanks again. Got to go. Later. 18:50:53 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 18:51:01 ggherdov [uid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hlakiiqzxsoaxqxu] has joined #lisp 18:51:02 SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-haismmhsmeaxvwge] has joined #lisp 18:51:04 d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wszxiuvodvtcstio] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:51:14 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:51:56 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:09 pw_ [uid2072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-anwostkmliezctql] has joined #lisp 18:58:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:59:25 -!- Re-L [~Arttt@187-40-203-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 18:59:41 p_l|omoikane [~pl@81-18-213-39.static.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 19:01:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-75-143.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 19:01:11 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-75-143.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:11 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 19:01:19 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:04:06 mc40 [~mc40@host86-148-141-128.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:01 leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:07:13 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 19:09:01 clhs byte 19:09:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_by_by.htm 19:09:37 clhs bit 19:09:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_bit.htm 19:10:38 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:07 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 19:11:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:58 so any reason why (apparently) unsigned-byte 16 matches 16 bits? 19:12:16 matches? 19:12:29 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboe129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:13:00 the type (unsigned-byte 16) does in fact describe a 16-bit unsigned integer 19:13:05 it's a sign of the intelligent design, no less! 19:13:57 Isn't a 16-bit unsigned integer equivalent to 2 bytes? 19:14:19 2 eight-bit bytes 19:14:20 if by bytes you mean octets, then yes 19:14:31 PuercoPop: lisp uses the traditional usage of the term "byte", not the popular meaning of "8 bits" 19:14:32 i think you're getting around to asking "why doesn't the number mean number of bytes" and the answer is "because it doesn't" 19:14:33 -!- zz_zz_runningsku is now known as runningskull 19:14:46 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:03 see http://l1sp.org/cl/glossary/byte 19:15:04 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 19:15:06 that 19:15:08 because the standard doesn't specify bytes to be octets 19:15:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:51 hmm so it seems that I was mistaken all this years. Well life and learn! 19:17:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:02 (and from another angle, if you wanted to specify a non-multiple-of-8-bit integer type, what would you do? use floats?) 19:18:02 PuercoPop: what did you learn? bytes were regularly different from the now-well-known octets, back in the day 19:18:07 zRecursive [~czsq888@222.209.243.25] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 chris 19:18:35 sorry. 19:19:00 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-148-141-128.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 19:19:02 *Xach* is looking forward to seeing many of you in madrid in a week! 19:19:13 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 19:19:15 oGMo: (integer 0 3) 19:19:19 Xach: so am I! 19:22:50 how would i do something like: (let ((tag 0)) (do-seq (a seq) (setf tag (fn a tag)))) in FP? would you recommend a book where i could learn about FP eq of such idioms? 19:23:27 pnpuff_ [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:24:01 recursion is one way 19:24:15 FP has nothing to do with lisp, though 19:24:44 clhs reduce 19:24:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_reduce.htm 19:25:06 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:25:10 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 19:25:41 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-100-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:51 stassats`: even better, multi-paradigm :) 19:25:59 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-134-113.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:23 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:25 -!- sbcl_Krystof is now known as Krystof 19:26:57 thanks 19:27:37 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:28:17 -!- Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:31 Kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 19:28:45 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:32 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:30:29 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:30:34 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:31:46 nan-: depending on your interpretation of FP that code is fp, if you take it to mean that functions in your interface always return the same result with the same arguments, In that spirit, modifying a local variable is only a small evil. If a variable is modified in a forest and nobody sees it, is it really modified? :) 19:32:51 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 19:33:13 nan: some lisp books take a more functional approach.. e.g., ANSI Common Lisp by Graham 19:34:12 ryoshu [~kamil1212@unaffiliated/ryoshu] has joined #lisp 19:34:29 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.139] has joined #lisp 19:34:37 oh until now i thought reduce is used only for its return value, accumulation and such.. but now i tried without binding to anything and compiler didn't give any warning as it normally does. so that means this is common! 19:35:17 What does it typically mean when I :use a file inside of my defpackage declaration and then sbcl tells me that my package I'm using does not specify a package? 19:35:31 you don't use files, it's about packages 19:35:46 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 19:35:49 nan: huh? it _is_ generally used for its return value 19:35:58 Those files have been defpackage'd 19:36:11 defpackage has absolutely nothing to do with files 19:36:13 nan: I assumed your example computed tag from the sequence elements 19:36:13 ManAmongHippos: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html read this 19:36:34 packages and files are entirely orthogonal 19:37:58 ManAmongHippos: If you are comming from a language where files are also a sort of namespace(like python) forget that language while learning lisp. 19:38:11 adeht: it increments its input based on some condition, tag used there just to calculate the index of object in a matrix, result has no importance 19:38:24 ManAmongHippos: http://weitz.de/packages.html 19:38:31 So I have to use in-package to specify which package everything will be bound to? 19:38:56 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 19:39:13 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:19 nan: if the purpose is side effects, I prefer to use a loop like you did rather than reduce 19:39:33 ManAmongHippos: "everything" is not "bound". read the pcl chapter. 19:39:34 -!- Lis [~Lis@p3E9E916C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:40:13 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:40:21 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:20 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:41:41 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 -!- rotty_ [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:34 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 19:47:05 Xach: what dumb idea could I lard require with? Just use (progn (require :module "module.lisp") (provide :module)) to ensure module.lisp is loaded only once by this expression. 19:47:30 a file is orthogonal to a device? 19:47:35 It would be expected that (provide :module) is at the end of module.lisp, but it's not in CL usage, more in el usage. 19:47:39 -!- pnpuff_ is now known as pnpuff 19:47:51 pnpuff: depends. On unix, a device is a file. 19:47:57 imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has joined #lisp 19:48:08 Or rather, a device is identifier by a special file. 19:48:16 pnpuff: on unix, file = inode. 19:48:19 pjb: packages are not files? 19:48:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:48:27 Nope. 19:48:28 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:49:18 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-27-7.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:20 adeht: strangly it just fits what i was doing. i already have tons of loops everywhere else >< 19:50:30 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 19:51:31 rotty [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 19:53:42 thanks guys for suggesting ECL for C embedding 19:54:25 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@87.109.43.163] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 19:54:43 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@227.91.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:55:56 dmitrymatveev [~chatzilla@83.149.45.201] has joined #lisp 19:56:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58:19 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@227.91.103.87.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:04 pavelpenev: heh indeed! (sorry didn't see your reply) 19:59:29 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 20:00:31 stassats`: have a look at: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137191 20:00:39 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:51 what am i looking at? 20:01:26 A command that let you kill a thread that you select from the list of threads, without risking killing the wrong thread. 20:01:36 why should i look at it? 20:02:17 You might be interested, since at 13:50:41 you thought somebody was concerned about killing wrong threads. 20:02:55 So next time somebody has similar concerns, you can refer them to same lisppaste ;-) 20:03:09 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: sigh...] 20:03:14 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.176.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:16 metaprogramming programming language -> meta help. 20:03:41 sadly, it's not relevant 20:03:45 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:03:57 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:10 Too bad, I was so proud of my kill-threads :-/ 20:05:41 -!- protist [~protist@159.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:06:55 -!- kennyheaton [~kheaton@mta-76-176-47-220.san.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:07:53 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 20:08:32 pnpuff: it might be interesting to get hold on L sources or reference documentation, if only to just have the definition of the subset they selected. You can always re-implement it for your favorite arduino or other embedded processor. 20:08:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:09:58 zacts [~blueberry@c-174-50-84-161.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:26 -!- ryankarason [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:10:33 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 20:10:45 -!- zacts [~blueberry@c-174-50-84-161.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:10:45 zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 20:10:49 pjb arduino lisp seems little supported 20:11:05 -!- varjag_ [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hcdsgpqvyoitnvyq] has quit [] 20:11:57 -!- adelgado1 is now known as adelgado 20:12:29 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:41 ehu: To the best of my knowledge word was architecture dependent but byte was always 8 bits. Now I know better 20:13:20 maybe there is not so much interest on the embedded systems ... and so there are no many cross-compilers 20:13:35 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-134-113.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:02 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-134-113.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:21 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:05 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 20:18:06 PuercoPop: bytes were of all size. 4-bit, (eg. with the Intel 4004), 6-bit (eg 704 where LISP was developped or 7090 where LISP 1.5 was developped), 9-bit on most powerful computers before the 80's. And indeed, 8-, 16- or 32-bit on more recent "micro" processors. But DSP often have bytes of 24-bit, 21-bit or some other strange number of bits. 20:18:10 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 20:19:25 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 20:20:34 adeht: perhaps the intermediate results are useful (and used in further steps to compute the side effects), and only the final result is not interesting. 20:21:29 (reduce (lambda (n c) (format t "~V<~A~>~%" n c) (1+ n)) "Hello" :initial-value 1) 20:21:34 pbj, and 1-bit, :) 20:21:51 Sure, 1-bit too. 20:22:06 connection machine, :) 20:22:07 Quite funny to work with 1-bit processors actually. 20:23:24 pjb: actually, 704 was iirc word-addressed, so "byte" was probably "the small bite of the the word I used" ;) 20:23:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:24:10 PuercoPop: there was a long time where scientific computation meant "36bit computer" 20:24:19 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:24:23 and a lot of weird stuff as well 20:25:01 (including bit-addressable computers, which is I think still alive in some DSP - the pointers had 1bit resolution) 20:27:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:54 p_l|omoikane: 704 was strange :-) It had four bits: 1, 2, 4 and 8, plus two bits A and B. Together, they could encode a holerith card column. It added a M bit (mark) that was used to delimit the fields in memory. The instructions such as add, move, etc, worked with as argument the address of the last byte, and they worked up to the previous mark. 20:28:27 There was an additionnal parity bit, for a total of 8-bit per addressable byte, but only 7-bit were usable, since the parity bit was entirely managed by the hardware. 20:28:55 Now, I have a diploma from IBM, dated 1965 certifying that I am a qualified IBM 704 autocoder programmer. 20:29:15 (I was born in 1964, okay). 20:29:51 at least we can count on bits being defined as binary .. at least until there's qulisp 20:30:21 oGMo: or trits :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Setun 20:31:00 or dits! 20:31:01 setun was not binary, :) 20:31:24 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:31:30 well, yes, it was strange 20:31:42 I tend to think more in terms of what was in registers, which were also strange 20:31:46 sorry, pjb, you already said this, :) 20:31:55 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:32:00 It was cool, you could implement trooleans easily on it: {true maybe false} 20:32:18 (36bit, 38bit, 15 bits... and instructions could be encoded same way as early CONS...) 20:32:23 latest sbcl bug -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/137300 20:32:29 the idea was more about noise, i guess 20:32:51 Or avoiding doing the same as those pig capitalists ? :-) 20:33:10 now annotated with backtrace 20:33:17 adeht: yup. reverting the culprit in a minute or two. 20:33:36 no, russians always do in another way, :) 20:33:44 adeht: we're on that one (you're way too slow ;) 20:33:47 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 20:33:54 :) 20:34:21 pjb: actually I think it was only by end of 50s that digital computers using booleans "set in" 20:34:33 pjb: there was a lot of experimentation with weird systems, including decimal computers 20:34:50 decimal computers lasted well into the 60s 20:34:58 Of course, when computers used tubes, it was easier to use base ten. 20:34:59 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-21.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:03 and Soviet engineers kept to analog computers quite long for certain stuff 20:35:11 the thought was that managers would feel more comfortable with it 20:35:17 why weird? 20:35:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:39 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboe129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:35:49 still today some problems can't be solved in other way then analogic, :) 20:35:59 In Earth vs the Flying Saucers (1956), there's a scene with a nice analogical computer. 20:36:54 antgreen [~green@out-on-201.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:17 And of course, there are the targetting computers of all the fighters before the F-14 (and even the early F-14) that were analogical (mecanical). 20:37:21 Quite impressive. 20:37:44 pjb: not mechanical 20:38:00 electronic analogue computers were in use long before F-14 20:38:16 ASau` [~user@p5797E072.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:18 including remote guidance from giant ground radar system 20:38:24 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:27 russian (well soviet union one actually), engineering rocks. We used to come up with insane stuff.. Like stupid local town bought 5000 matrix printers, without Cyrillic letters in ROM. Asking accountants and such to "load something" before printing was a no go, so basically 5000 printers were dead weight. I had a driver written, that polled parallel port on a timer interrupt, with statistical algo that determined if printer attached to 20:38:27 it had just turned on, then intecepted the print stream, and inject ESC command to load cyrillic fonts 20:38:44 haha 20:38:46 any use of analog computers other than calculating fireing solutions? 20:38:52 please, remind me which channel am in? 20:38:55 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@222.209.243.25] has left #lisp 20:39:01 you could print a document, turn printer off midstream, then turn on again, and it continued printing in russian as if nothing happened 20:39:03 pavelpenev: computing derivatives and intergrals 20:39:14 pavelpenev: also, flight computers of all kinds 20:39:33 we made tons of money.. I was like 13 years old, and all my TSR writing expirience was writing .com viruses :-) 20:41:16 :-) 20:41:49 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:41:55 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF965AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:17 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:43:45 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:55 its lisp related because coz its cool, and lisp is cool too. 20:45:34 -!- dmitrymatveev [~chatzilla@83.149.45.201] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [SeaMonkey 2.17/20130521235516]] 20:46:17 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.16.149.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:47:58 zRecursive [~czsq888@222.209.243.25] has joined #lisp 20:48:50 adeht: can you try with new HEAD (fresh commit two minutes ago) 20:49:14 pkhuong: sure 20:49:24 seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:41 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: baboom] 20:50:53 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@222.209.243.25] has left #lisp 20:51:12 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:34 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:59 zickzackv [~faot@g225053113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:12 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:52:43 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:37 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 20:54:54 Is there a "tcllisp" similar to awklisp? 20:55:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:06 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:56:56 pnpuff, a tcl interpreter in lisp? 20:57:07 A lisp implementation in TCL. 20:57:10 sorry, lisp in a tcl interpreter 21:00:10 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:21 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:00:33 pkhuong: everything seems well 21:01:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:40 adeht: thank you. 21:06:40 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 21:06:52 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010804.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:25 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:55 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 21:08:09 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:45 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.149.164] has joined #lisp 21:10:29 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:13:03 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:13:38 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 21:13:56 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 21:14:45 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:16:36 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:17:47 lisp in dos.bat? :) 21:17:55 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:18:26 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-35-126.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 21:20:02 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-201.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:20:39 -!- diegoo [~diegoo@99-163-126-200.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 21:21:22 -!- Redjack [~mal@nat/hp/x-icqhnbmvgsdqiiek] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:37 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-9-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:07 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:28:36 aftershave: just clone me! My third clone will write an easily retargettable CL implementation, so that you can have CL in awk, bash, tcl, javascript or command.com in half a day each. 21:28:54 pjb: ... how much for that command.com one? 21:30:39 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 21:31:00 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:04 anyway the "restriction" is that the kernel is written in C... 21:33:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:33:34 a curiosity: what kind of kernel uses opengenera? 21:34:51 in lisp 21:35:48 pnpuff: Genera is in Lisp (sometimes local subsetss, let's say, when you disable certain stuff) 21:37:16 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 21:40:01 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:42 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-029-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:43:06 p_l|omoikane: so is all the Genera OS written in the same language used to write applications? 21:43:39 pnpuff: yes. 21:44:37 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 21:44:46 OpenGenera added a Digital Unix binary that simply replaced the microcode of the Ivory chipset as well as exported various I/O devices 21:45:09 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:53 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:00 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 21:50:19 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@mnhm-4d011bb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:50:24 hi 21:50:51 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 21:53:34 looks opengenera more like a vm and less like an OS? 21:54:02 small gist made for fun, only to test a time passing function generator: https://gist.github.com/Denommus/5646719 21:54:07 what do you think? 21:54:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:54 pnpuff: OpenGenera was described by Symbolics as "implementation of Ivory microcode on Alpha CPU" 21:57:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:57:42 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 21:58:43 yes, if I understand it emulates a lisp machine instruction set on an alpha platform 21:58:59 atpcas [~atpcas@c-67-175-242-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:00 pnpuff: the thing is, the Ivory cpu didn't execute said instruction set directly either 22:01:43 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:52 so from the pov of Genera, OpenGenera was an implementation of Ivory machine with different silicon and I think a bit different set of I/O devices 22:03:32 -!- hagish [~hagish@p54895D15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:08:10 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:09:28 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 22:09:34 zRecursi` [~czsq888@222.209.243.25] has joined #lisp 22:10:40 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.139] has quit [Quit: ManAmongHippos] 22:11:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.214.214] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:12:22 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-63.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:27 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 22:16:18 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.148] has joined #lisp 22:17:05 -!- Guthur`` [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:17:18 Why is there so little enthusiasm around OSKit in the CL environment? 22:19:59 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-120-129.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:06 because grass is green 22:20:23 ...maybe because of "the limitation" is always the C language. :( 22:21:04 -!- hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 22:21:32 fe[nl]ix: it is only a tool that semplify a bit the work. 22:22:43 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:23:04 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-134-113.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:24:03 -!- zRecursi` [~czsq888@222.209.243.25] has left #lisp 22:24:11 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.139] has joined #lisp 22:24:37 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:22 ...the only "real" solution would be write a kernel in lisp but this looks like a mission impossible at the moment (at least for me :) 22:25:49 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:28:32 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002499.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:58 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 22:32:53 Is there at least a project like schemix in the CL ecosystem? 22:33:38 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225053113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:34:22 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:36:00 pnpuff movitz? 22:36:39 rszeno: what kind of kernel uses movitz? 22:37:46 i have no idea, http://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/movitz.html 22:38:33 doesn't seems update since '95 22:38:52 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboe129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:39:49 rszeno: so maybe the movitz idea was not so good at all... 22:40:35 or maybe peoples just start to do something else and forget about it, :) 22:42:32 is there a sanely-booststrappable lisp OS that not uses at all "C tools"? 22:42:57 Mostly making an OS is hard and there's not that much point. 22:43:04 you need to start with something to compile a source 22:43:33 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:12 rszeno: sure... expecially if your kernel is written in C. 22:45:13 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:45:54 c is usualy choose because is available everywhere 22:46:06 ..so you need at least a C compiler to compile the kernel. 22:46:15 -!- Sm3lly [~Sm3lly@192.210.150.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:41 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002499.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:47:49 could be a lisp compiler 22:47:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.148] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:05 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-35-126.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:20 generate elf from lisp using a lisp compiler 22:48:50 Your kernel is an elf?? 22:48:51 or whatever format can be loaded and executed 22:49:01 no, :) 22:49:39 hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:49:41 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:49:58 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 22:50:00 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 22:50:39 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 22:50:43 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 22:54:02 rszeno: or cross-executed (: 22:55:19 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:36 once you want to replace the kernel you will probably want to replace also the bootloader, :) 22:55:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:34 Lis [~Lis@p3E9E916C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:58:10 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 22:58:21 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:44 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.128.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59:00 So I'm having a little noob trouble with map and the result-type argument. In particular, according to the hyperspec a type-expression is "an expression that denotes a type". I can do a (map '(vector * 2) foo bar baz) but not (map '(vector 0 1) foo bar baz), what gives? 22:59:18 hiato: look up how the vector type specifier works. 22:59:31 Bike: ok, sure, will do 23:02:17 Bike: like magic 23:02:18 thank you 23:02:40 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:02:47 glad to help 23:03:22 so it turns out I actually wanted (vector number 2) all along. Lisp is cool :D 23:06:52 why not just vector 23:07:49 <|3b|> a vector of 'number' is probably same as a vector of * or T on most implementations 23:08:40 <|3b|> so you don't get any benefit aside from making it more obvious to human readers what you expect to be there (and in that case, are you sure you meant to include ratios, complex numbers, huge integers, etc?) 23:10:07 -!- Artheist [~quassel@66.130.243.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:22 |3b|: valid point, I have since refined it to integer 23:12:25 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 23:19:05 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 23:21:14 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 23:25:13 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:26:19 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 23:26:30 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:30:02 hmm am I an idiot, or you can't write strings to babel-streams:make-in-memory-output-stream? 23:30:18 says no method stream-write-string. I can write characters fine 23:30:25 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:56 -!- hiato [~hiato@196-215-175-165.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 23:31:14 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:31:18 -!- ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@164.111.213.139] has quit [Quit: ManAmongHippos] 23:32:12 *|3b|* seems to remember that problem with various libs using trivial-gray-streams lately, might see if there is an updated version or something 23:32:20 -!- Lis [~Lis@p3E9E916C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:36 -!- nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:53 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:36:38 it's a binary stream.. babel-streams provides stream-write-char method but not stream-write-string 23:37:20 *maxm* had not been working with streams a lot 23:38:18 maxm: write-sequence should work 23:38:29 i'm looking for a pattern where I can encode in place, that is instead of (string-to-octets (with-output-to-string ...)) something ilke (with-string-output-converted-to-octets (*standard-output*) ... print bunch of stuff ...) 23:38:32 what does that? 23:38:45 like one end you put sheep, sausage comes out 23:39:36 basically like if SBCL was printing with UTF encoding, but into memory 23:39:37 maxm: you got it right but it's a bug in babel-streams that it misses that method 23:40:05 any other libs to do what I want, especially if I'm looking to do this tons, with a fixed buffer (like maybe 512 bytes max) 23:40:15 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:21 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 23:40:34 maxm: there's flexi-streams.. 23:40:57 ok i'll take a look.. I mean yea thats what all the damn web servers have to do, do they all use flexi-streams? 23:41:39 I suppose babel-streams is based on flexi-streams, because they have the same bug ;) 23:41:56 <|3b|> no, it was a change in trivial-gray-streams 23:42:03 maxm: I'd use babel-streams.. patch it and send a patch 23:42:33 <|3b|> it had class precedence wrong or something so never actually called the string version, if i remember right 23:42:35 3b: maybe, but from a logical point I see how it's a babel-streams problem 23:42:40 well, how the hell does hunchentoot and other web servers work, don't they require this kind of functionality to work? 23:42:54 coz you supposed to push octets into http wire 23:43:04 <|3b|> right, just saying that having same problem doesn't imply any relation other than using trivial-gray-streams 23:43:19 anyway, thanks, it looks like flexi-streams is what I need 23:43:24 3b: well both miss the method ;) 23:43:42 *|3b|* suspects lots of things do, since you couldn't tell it was missing before :) 23:44:04 *|3b|* isn't sure why there isn't a slow default that just calls the per-character method though 23:44:15 3b: maybe not many use write-string, and use write-sequence instead 23:44:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-78-94-18-255.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:44:26 *maxm* expects he is missing something, coz almost all web related libraries just (format ...) into the output stream, which calls stream-write-string 23:44:38 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 23:44:53 3b: the default may call stream-write-char, but still there won't be any applicable stream-write-stream method because the stream is binary 23:45:14 <|3b|> maxm: right, which used to work, and probably will again soon (or maybe even does if you use the right library versions) 23:45:42 <|3b|> adeht: i thought the point of flexistreams and babel streams was to be bivalent? 23:45:53 stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 23:46:00 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:37 3b: I thought their point was to provide a binary with-output-to-string ;) 23:47:14 <|3b|> yeah, that sounds better 23:47:16 flexi-stream does what I want, got it 23:47:29 <|3b|> either way, it provides a stream you can write characters (and therefore strings) to 23:47:51 you pass the babel in-memory binary stream, to the flexi-stream as underlaying storage, and then print to flexi-stream, while extracting encoded octets from babel binary stream 23:48:45 <|3b|> that sounds convoluted 23:48:47 3b: yep.. so it defines a stream-write-char method that does string-to-octets.. as well as a stream-write-sequence one, but forgets to provide a stream-write-string.. I'm not sure trivial-gray-streams is supposed to provide a default stream-write-string for binary streams 23:49:15 <|3b|> adeht: which stream is binary? 23:49:40 3b: the stream created by make-in-memory-output-stream 23:50:28 *|3b|* must be misremembering the problem or something 23:51:10 (defclass in-memory-output-stream (in-memory-stream fundamental-binary-output-stream) ...) 23:51:58 oh wait.. :) 23:52:20 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:42 in-memory-stream is the one that's supposed to be bivalent right?.. but it subclasses from trivial-gray-stream-mixin which is said to be "deprecated" 23:54:53 -!- foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:55:19 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboe129.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:55:24 in fact you don't need babel at all 23:55:31 flexi-streams seems to be replacement 23:55:47 wtf then I see babel popping up in so many places? 23:55:53 <|3b|> yeah, they both do similar things at this point 23:56:06 <|3b|> different sets of encodings, and different performance though 23:56:08 zRecursive [~czsq888@222.209.243.25] has joined #lisp 23:58:28 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:34 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.241.124] has joined #lisp 23:58:50 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp