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the mailing list page info returns 404 01:07:35 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:10 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@119.55.123.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:06 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:15:28 maxm: probably by sending a message to list+subscribe@common-lisp.net 01:15:30 ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:47 -!- bitonic [~user@94.0.211.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:15:58 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:16:10 where list is the list you want to subscribe to 01:16:41 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937649.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:16:56 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:17:12 +help 01:17:19 err +help@ should also work 01:18:10 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:24 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.175.178.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:23 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:37 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:24:39 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:44 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:38 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.71.215] has joined #lisp 01:26:57 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:28:55 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937649.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:34:49 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 01:36:11 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:38:39 -!- whist [~whist@c-98-232-204-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:42:37 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:38 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:42:38 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:47:30 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 01:51:12 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:57:21 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:25 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937649.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:12:07 -!- typeclassy [~user@ool-3f8ffbbb.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:12:34 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:45 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.208.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22:15 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:23:20 pierre1 [~pierre1@186.205.149.74] has joined #lisp 02:27:03 Gooder [~user@33.155.200.192.client.dyn.strong-in144.as13926.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:32 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:34 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:30:09 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 02:32:09 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:40:21 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:12 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-134-242.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:53 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-122-250.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:46:04 ni291187 [~u931732@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:09 -!- ni291187 [~u931732@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:48:53 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:13 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:57:29 Here's one kind of hack you can do with SBCL HEAD: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137271 (: 02:58:03 swoooon 02:59:24 (I didn't paste the 120 lines of intrinsics definition needed to get there) 03:00:00 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:00:21 -!- cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:00:26 i wish i knew what it all means! 03:00:39 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:01:43 a (simd-pack single-float) is four floats packed together? 03:02:12 right. 03:05:34 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:09:00 Xach: why is it like, [RIP+168] instead of a constant 1ffffffe? 03:09:03 Watcher7 [~w@silly.tabby.cat] has joined #lisp 03:10:29 Bike: 32 bit immediates are sign-extended to 64 on x86-64. 03:10:47 ah 03:12:22 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:14:06 Fiora [~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:11 -!- Fiora [~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:14:19 kanru` [~kanru@220-136-14-43.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:38 (and that constant is 33 bit wide) 03:14:49 Fiora [~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:56 -!- xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has left #lisp 03:17:00 Bike: i what? i 03:17:17 Xach: sorry, i meant pkhuong: 03:20:37 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-81-52.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:22:29 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937649.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:25:55 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:26:47 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:30 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 03:28:32 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:35 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:31:58 shifty [~user@114-198-34-216.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:32:29 setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:58 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:29 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:35:30 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:41 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:36:53 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:39:09 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@186.205.149.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:22 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:04 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:26 ghotiphud [~yale@173.170.251.208] has joined #lisp 03:43:39 Hello, what's the typical way to work with keywords that you want to store in a database? 03:43:53 In other languages with enums, you would store an integer 03:44:01 what's the equivalent to that? 03:44:25 ghotiphud: symbols? 03:44:42 I guess it depends on the database. 03:45:19 I thought they were called keywords like :this 03:45:34 I'm trying to use postmodern 03:45:38 What is (class-of :this) ? 03:45:59 Well, postmodern doesn't have support for storing lisp symbols directly. 03:46:17 So you'll have to map them to some postmodernly representation. 03:46:31 p_nathan1 [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 03:46:35 You could use the string ":THIS", or perhaps translate to numbers, or whatever. 03:46:41 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:46:53 okay 03:47:20 so basically in the update function, I'll have to convert the symbol to an int or string 03:47:23 ect 03:47:38 Sure. The latter will be easier and more stable. 03:47:46 But also perhaps more expensive. 03:48:32 the cost probably isn't that important, but I don't see using more than a few symbols total for this 03:49:01 basically what you'd use a small enum for 03:49:20 thanks for the advice 03:49:24 :-) 03:49:46 Then you might like to write a defenum that generates such a mapping function for you. 03:53:23 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 03:54:13 -!- pierpa [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:01:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has joined #lisp 04:01:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has quit [Changing host] 04:01:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:01:47 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:01:49 -!- kanru` [~kanru@220-136-14-43.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:02:09 -!- 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[~Glossina@67-5-223-95.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:24 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 05:12:01 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:17 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:06 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:17:09 . 05:19:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-223-95.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19:56 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.178] has joined #lisp 05:24:05 ManAmongHippos [~ManAmongH@71-82-12-187.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:25:25 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:21 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.91.16] has joined #lisp 05:28:57 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:29:21 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-169-126.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:59 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.91.16] has quit [Client Quit] 05:31:44 -!- attila_lendvai 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[~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:58:50 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:04:16 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:07:24 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.45.1] has joined #lisp 07:09:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:10:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-3-214.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:31 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:10:31 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:10:31 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:11:34 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-134-242.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:14:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:14:46 ;Good morning! 07:16:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:20:10 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 07:21:22 tesuji [~tesuji@mnhm-590c239b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:25 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:24:49 -!- anaumov_ is now known as anaumov 07:24:58 -!- anaumov [~an@bane.agnitas.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:24:58 anaumov [~an@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 07:25:02 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ykbklhtnphnxthyi] has joined #lisp 07:26:39 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.45.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:29:34 namtsui [~user@c-24-7-113-217.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:47 long live lisp http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~bh/proglang.html 07:29:52 especially point #4 07:30:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:32:01 point #1 is so wrong. a programming language that can be learned over a weekend is not worth learning at all. 07:32:17 also, language choice does influence programming strategies quite a lot. 07:32:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:32:46 point taken 07:35:02 Gooder`` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 07:35:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-169-126.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:35:49 why is a language that can be learned over a weekend not worth learning? 07:35:49 agumonkey [~agu@52.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:09 snowylike: because if it so easy to learn, it does not add anything to what you'd previously know. 07:36:43 right 07:36:58 hadn't thought about that 07:37:00 also it falls victim to the 'writing fortran in another syntax' problem 07:37:01 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ykbklhtnphnxthyi] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 07:39:07 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.71.215] has left #lisp 07:39:43 -!- Gooder` [~user@33.155.200.192.client.dyn.strong-in144.as13926.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:40:13 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:40:43 though I believe a language like that may have some worth as a translation help - if everybody can understand it, you can get people from widely differing backgrounds on more or less the same page 07:41:05 People should concentrate more on solving problems, well, and quickly, than on languages. 07:41:19 snowylike: we have such a language, it's called C 07:41:36 I was about to say that myself 07:41:53 though to really learn C a weekend isn't enough I feel 07:42:17 snowylike: trying to add another is like trying to solve the problem of having thousands of human languages by advocating Esperanto 07:42:20 snowylike: learning C in a weekend, or even CL is doable, but you won't know the language in a weekend.. 07:42:53 mal_: I didn't say I want to do that. I thought about the general idea H4ns pointed out 07:43:24 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 07:43:26 zorkmoid: mh...how can I say "I know C" if I don't know the language? 07:44:16 -!- bolcselo [~x@pool-71-163-45-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:05 snowylike: Knowing and learning something are quite different concepts.. 07:46:39 ah, misunderstanding on my part 07:46:45 -!- d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:48:33 Even after some odd ball 30 years of CL, I am still suprised over things... mostly how you can expess something in a cleaner manner. 07:50:27 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-eedubumznflmjffn] has joined #lisp 07:51:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:55:57 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: l'unica veritą.. č la morte 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http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_file_w.htm 10:32:49 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:35:02 stassats`: yes, but that gives the time it was last modified. I've got a list of files, that need to be ordered based on their creation time, and not last-modified time 10:35:08 samebchase: you can only get modify date on most file systems 10:35:23 hitecnologys: yes. that's what SO just told me 10:35:58 Will I have to save that metadata myself? 10:36:07 yep, or change FS 10:38:20 hmm 10:39:16 any date-time library recommendations? for parsing things like yyyy-mm-dd and then comparing them 10:40:17 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:40:28 samebchase, are you using Windows? if so, ntfs stores the create date. 10:40:46 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:07 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:41:09 DataLinkDroid: oh, but I'm using Arch 10:41:32 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 10:41:56 samebchase: the library you're lookng for is local-time 10:43:38 loke_: thanks 10:43:48 ql'd it 10:43:54 samebchase, ok, that's an issue then. most Unix filesystems don't store create date, as was mentioned before 10:44:10 create date is remarkably useless anyway :-) 10:44:16 samebchase, date-calc is a date lib you could look at 10:44:50 I'm writing a blog-site-generator thingy 10:45:33 I'm considering using octopress' method of storing files like: YYYY-MM-DD-post-title.md 10:45:50 DataLinkDroid: you sure? When I was evaluating the date libs, local-time was the only one that was even close to doing things correctly. 10:46:42 I'd love to have some code reviews: https://github.com/samebchase/millipode 10:46:58 loke_, all I know is that date-calc, while limited, has been doing what I want it to do 10:47:32 loke_, i have not spent time evaluating how correct it might be in all respects 10:48:13 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:49:28 also, at least ext4 does store creation time, but the tools won't tell you it 10:50:08 loke_, a quick look at the functions exported by local-time would indicate that it is a more comprehensive library than date-calc 10:50:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:50:38 samebchase: if you use (ql:quickload :millipode), all dependencies will automatically be loaded 10:50:39 DataLinkDroid: Yes. It's the most comprehensive one. Yet it still lacks some features. 10:51:01 samebchase: that is a suggestion for your readme, which seems to complicate the installment process needlessly 10:51:50 samebchase: also, if you tell your users to clone into ~/quicklisp/local-projects/, no additional configuration will be required for asdf or quicklisp 10:51:59 *DataLinkDroid* turning in for the night 10:53:48 sellout- [~Adium@pat-ip-195-91-109-4.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 10:54:22 H4ns: okay. So if I make some changes, can I do a (ql:quickload ..) to rebuild it, or will it load the previously built one? 10:54:49 samebchase: it will rebuild 10:54:53 oh 10:55:14 samebchase: but normally, you'd just recompile as you go from within SLIME 10:55:36 nice. So I don't have to keep asdf'ing everytime 10:56:17 I C-c C-c usually, but I like doing a fresh build just to make sure I haven't messed anything up 10:56:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-218-78-1.lnse4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:58:00 samebchase: yeah. Then you really want to restart-inferior-lisp followed by simply QL'ing your applciation 10:58:06 everything will be pulled in correctly 10:58:10 H4ns: I'd assume that people who don't use QL will already use asdf anyway. So, yeah, I'll simplify the README now 10:58:27 loke_: yes. 10:59:13 remove installation steps altogether 10:59:36 who would be using your thing without knowing what quicklisp is? 11:00:13 It's remarkable how pervasive QL has become since its invention 11:00:28 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-110-148.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00:42 (i actually doubt that anybody, besides you, will be using it at all) 11:03:24 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:03:35 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-113.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:03:58 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 11:04:14 stassats`: Likely, but that's no reason to not write documentation. 11:04:17 Yes? 11:04:34 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:04:46 that's actually a pretty good reason 11:04:49 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:06:52 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 11:07:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:09:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:09:05 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:09:13 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 11:09:13 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 11:09:13 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:09:57 -!- d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:10:18 hmm 11:12:32 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:32 I'm also considering trying out abcl to see if it can make a portable binary 11:13:21 that will remove the need of users (if, any) having to build it themselves 11:13:47 if i were to be a user, i wouldn't want to use ABCL 11:14:06 samebchase: at this point, it is not very easy to make portable binaries with abcl. i'd even say it is rather hard. 11:14:11 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-10-107.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:19:32 hmm, sbcl cores don't work across versions iirc, so I guess it's the build-it-yourself-from-source installation method for the time being 11:20:08 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 11:20:16 would be nice if abcl could create portable jars or whatever they are called 11:20:18 sbcl cores can be executable 11:21:16 stassats`: you mean not having to do sbcl --core corefile ? 11:21:26 yes 11:21:59 and sbcl won't need to installed? 11:22:05 nice 11:22:05 yes 11:22:10 samebchase: look at buildapp 11:22:29 if i were a user, i wouldn't want to run random executable from the internet either 11:23:08 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:11 H4ns: okay 11:24:02 josemanuel [~josemanue@144.213.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:25:44 nicdev` [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 11:26:12 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:42 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:31:50 dnolen` [~user@109-74-176-162.biz.static.gigbone.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:42 -!- dnolen` [~user@109-74-176-162.biz.static.gigbone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:32 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:44:41 fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:49:05 marzipig [~root@217.155.101.22] has joined #lisp 11:49:05 -!- marzipig [~root@217.155.101.22] has quit [Changing host] 11:49:05 marzipig [~root@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 11:50:56 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 11:51:46 Is sbcl.org down for anyone else? 11:52:01 works here 11:52:14 Kenjin: http://isup.me/sbcl.org 11:52:57 surrounder: thanks 11:53:12 np :) 11:53:30 -!- nalkri [~root@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:53:34 yeah it's back. Don't know what happened here. 11:53:54 small glitch in the matrix 11:53:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:54:10 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:54:35 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:54:43 "happens when they change something" 11:55:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:58:52 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-3-214.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:06:00 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:56 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:45 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:46 bitonic` [~user@94.0.211.231] has joined #lisp 12:13:25 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1240-8.vpn.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping 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Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:59:18 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 12:59:35 Grr... 12:59:53 It's a petting zoo. 12:59:59 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.99] has joined #lisp 13:00:05 Thra11 [~Thra11@31.185.160.176] has joined #lisp 13:00:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:01:09 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:03:24 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:15 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:13:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.84.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:48 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 13:15:08 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:17:40 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-dev] 13:18:42 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:18:57 -!- jtza8 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[green@nat/redhat/x-fteobqqklyfudmnf] has joined #lisp 13:30:50 Petrus [~petrus@unaffiliated/petrus] has joined #lisp 13:30:54 H4ns: would you accept a patch for YASON that implements something along the lines of ST-JASON's JSO? 13:31:12 luis: what is "st-jason's jso"? 13:31:16 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:27 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:31 H4ns: a small wrapper around an alist to represent JS objects. 13:32:19 H4ns: and you can call the constructor as follows (jso "key1" "value1" "key2" "value2" ...) 13:32:19 luis: i'm all for new features if they fulfill a purpose and are documented :) 13:32:20 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:32:23 H4ns: (jso "a" 2 "b" 3) => #S(JSO :ALIST (("a" . 2) ("b" . 3))) 13:32:53 H4ns: a bit more convenient than creating an EQUAL hash-table for simple use cases. 13:33:49 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-85-103.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:33:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-250-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:17 pnpuff [~yall@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 13:34:36 fe[nl]ix: hmm, do you think yason:jso should create an hashtable or an alist wrapper like that? 13:38:30 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:02 -!- pjb- [~pjb-@LPuteaux-156-15-31-124.w82-127.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 13:41:12 how is a hash table better than a plist, btw? 13:41:28 erm, i mean an alist better than a plist 13:41:44 a hash-table should be more correct 13:41:58 correct? 13:42:03 alists and plists can contain duplicate keys, which the json spec forbids 13:42:11 H4ns: getf doesn't have :test 13:42:41 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-76-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:42:43 fe[nl]ix: this thing can eschew duplicates 13:43:04 stassats`: that is true. that's why one uses symbols as keys 13:43:16 -!- pnpuff [~yall@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 13:43:35 (yason:encode-plist '(:a 1 :b 2 :a 3)) signals no error 13:43:44 i don't see why it should be a hashtable, are you going to query it? 13:44:55 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:45:28 A JSON object that I've constructed? Yes, on occasion. A JSON object that I've had parsed from some input string? Hell yes! 13:45:45 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:46:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:52:03 pnpuff [~yall@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 13:52:10 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 13:52:15 -!- pnpuff [~yall@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:19 if I remember Javascript itself uses a hash table per object, but the JIT compiler attempts to detect non-dynamic objects by inference and replace slot references there by index references in an array/vector (somewhat like Lisp compilers can optimize symbol access in packages by using both a hash table and index for fast EQ and resolving functions/values in compiled code) 13:52:32 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:53:04 -!- bitonic` [~user@94.0.211.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:55:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:03 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:56:05 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-85-103.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ASDF  i presume this will take 6-12 hours 14:26:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:27:30 haha 14:29:42 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:32:15 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:37 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:34:22 *bhyde* looking for one of those "accumulate questions for the speaker +voting" gadgets where we can accumulate some questions to ask 14:35:23 "What do you recommend for people who really can't be bothered dealing with ASDF, have their own build logic, but want to share their libraries with other people?" 14:36:07 "get over yourself" 14:36:12 Heh. 14:36:22 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:44 nyef - i advise that you offer to come to their homes and install it for them 14:38:39 Fare is a character.. I followed him on G+, and once responded to his non-lisp post, only to be ganged on by a band of weird anarchists :-) 14:39:05 lol the libertarian stuff is great 14:39:13 somehow ended up being called a statist, we disengaged on a terms that after the revolution, they'll shoot me last :-) 14:39:28 fortunately, this stuff has nothing to do with #lisp so we don't need to worry about discussing it. 14:39:40 D: 14:39:56 maxm your in nyc right? 14:40:01 bhyde: yea 14:40:02 I remember the days when we had gun control and political system arguments here 14:40:11 ... different era 14:40:12 Don't forget cycling 14:40:19 and multi-user dungeons! 14:40:24 maxm: fare is moving to NYC 14:40:25 happy days 14:40:28 let's talk about multi-user dungeons more 14:40:32 Xach: uh oh 14:40:34 maxm: you can do some lispnyc meetings together! 14:40:40 it's even potentially on-topic 14:40:54 maxm you could take the bus up, if you left now ... 14:40:58 back when you had decent odds of being able to punch fellow #lispers in the face if they were too annoying ;) 14:41:24 *maxm* always plans to go for the next lispnyc, but then somehow other things, or one of the quant meetups, or market doing crazy things take priority 14:41:38 -!- pnpuff [~smidgen@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:41:44 the odds aren't so bad. I've met a number of #lispers in person already, and I haven't had my nose broken once yet :) 14:41:50 "What's the most annoying ASDF feature you had to add/support, but which you've come to like." 14:41:52 although H4ns and felideon came pretty close a few times, I'm sure. 14:41:56 guys from nyc, just in case, there no weird shit in there right? Like intersection with lesswrong folks, orgies and such :-) 14:42:18 coz I'm not into new age stuff 14:42:19 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:35 pnpuff [~smidgen@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:43:08 The lispnyc folks I met were universally nice & friendly. 14:43:28 maybe Xach could dig the N largest ASDF files out of his collection and we could hand them out to the audience 14:43:31 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:48 *bhyde* moved to boston from nyc, i had to learn to talk more slowly :) 14:44:35 lol 14:44:40 lol 14:44:50 you mean to talk more articulated..... 14:44:51 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:28 which forces you to be slower i assume..... 14:45:59 ... More articulated? With a BOSTON accent? WTF? 14:46:26 I should probably avoid NYC if they're even less articulate than Boston. 14:46:37 around here they leave those pauses when the channel goes slilent, which in nyc are an invitation to interrupt, but they claim they are thinking 14:46:56 Xach: cool thanks. Reason I asked, is funny, someone sent me NYC lesswrong link, and "meeting at private residence" "emotion release ritual" "mandatory hugging policy" and "cuddling therapy" raised so much red flags, I alt-f4'd the window as it was goatse.. So now every "meeting at private residence" thing, somehow makes me think of that :-) 14:47:26 lol 14:47:34 lol 14:48:01 -!- recycle [~user@2600:1013:b01d:c59:187a:8dd7:401f:a095] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:15 what a fascinating discussion, judging by the number of messages consisting solely of "lol" 14:48:27 nyef: paaaaahhhk maaahhh caaaaaahhhh in 'aaaavaaaaduh yaaaaaaaaduh 14:49:01 this is a relief: "No video results for "emotion release ritual" 14:49:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:15 aaaaaaahhticulated. 14:49:22 ihih 14:49:49 rofl 14:49:55 *patrickwonders* will not google 'emotion release ritual' even after assured there are no results. 14:50:10 i'm not when it comes to actual talk....or verbal i mean....meh 14:50:38 but it comes from not talking too much afaik..... 14:51:02 talking too much makes me thirsty..... 14:51:24 bhyde: serious question you did some stuff with a heroku package for common lisp, right? Have you tried interfacing with their DB instances with it? 14:51:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:51:40 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[fishing] 14:51:49 "how does :depends-on differ from (system )?" 14:51:50 recycle [~user@200.sub-70-211-7.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:08 -!- fzappa [~user@int.emakina.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:25 patrickwonders:  not recently, i think i did to that the first time I played with it, shortly after mike released his original example. 14:52:30 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:52:38 *bhyde* looks around 14:52:49 bhyde: cool so I take it that it wasn't terribly painful or you'd remember it? 14:54:34 i have no memory which means either it wasn't painful or more likely i didn't actually get beyond imagining it 14:54:35 patrickwonders: Or it was so terribly painful that the memory had to be suppressed. 14:54:35 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 14:54:52 repressed. Whatever. 14:55:30 *patrickwonders* laughs picturing bhyde at a keyboard with what's left of a fifth of scotch.... 14:55:31 patrickwonders: if you look at the branching graph on github, starting from mike's original, you can see people who have done more  if you pick a branch with lots of commits you might find something 14:55:43 Thanks... 14:56:01 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:56:24 patrickwonders: nope, but i have friends  https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10100178468669199&set=a.640397121919.2186044.4809786&type=1&theater 14:56:55 Not me, apparently: The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page. 14:57:47 -!- pnpuff [~smidgen@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:57:58 chameco [~samuel@rrcs-24-97-222-66.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:15 what!  have we just experienced an actual example of Facebook privacy  i don't believe it! 14:59:30 patrickwonders: i see mike actually has a db example -- https://github.com/mtravers/heroku-cl-example/blob/master/src/db.lisp 15:00:04 Thanks I didn't mean for you to have to research for me.. but I appreciate it.. thanks... 15:01:55 I keep intending to get back to that thread at some point with a bigger example. 15:02:54 Hmmm too bad the clsql documentation site is down (gone?) http://clsql.b9.com/ 15:03:29 Posterdati [~antani@host89-93-dynamic.19-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:04:19 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qgztmcmyxgdwdgpe] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:04:25 it isn't down 15:04:35 Okay I can't get to it. 15:04:49 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-uqdcoqcmstzispxo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:05:16 If I go to http://b9.com/ I go through a few redirections and end up at blog.b9.com but no content. 15:06:11 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ualbxgmmiyldjbag] has joined #lisp 15:06:18 ** server can't find clsql.b9.com: NXDOMAIN 15:06:33 works here 15:06:36 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-synhqbjgibeggrvf] has joined #lisp 15:07:00 Okay so I'm assuming DNS moved something and I haven't caught up yet. I'll try switching nameservers... 15:08:01 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-eedubumznflmjffn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:21 patrickwonders: dig @ns.b9.com clsql.b9.com A 15:08:28 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:28 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:10 patrickwonders: the doc is in the distribution, but  well  there is a make file 15:09:43 oh html.tar.gz is in that directory, that's why the makefile didn't do anything 15:10:00 see ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/clsql-20130128-git/doc/ 15:10:19 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10:52 *bhyde* found clsql's learning curve to be a bit more severe than he's like, but fun in the end 15:11:36 *sykopomp* wonders what the best lib for working with sqlite is. 15:11:51 I guess clsql can probably work with it, but I think postmodern has spoiled me. :( 15:12:13 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:13 -!- varjag_ is now known as varjag 15:12:23 -!- p_nathan1 [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:13:07 postmodern may be fine for me as Heroku uses PostgreSQL. 15:15:32 postmodern is the best thing ever 15:15:41 but I want to work with sqlite on something :\ 15:16:11 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:16:15 I use s-sql with non-postgres quite a bit. 15:16:24 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-165.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:26 postmodern has some truly dreadful aspects to it from my perspective. Some of them in terms of internals that I'd like to hijack, some of them really obviously visible. 15:16:31 There are a few quirky things but it's worth it to me to be able to construct queries from s-exps rather than with format. 15:17:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:17:58 I guess it's fairly easy to add a wrapper to make it sane. Do you use CLSQL to connect to non-pg, Xach? 15:18:39 sykopomp: it varies. right now i'm using lispworks commonsql for oracle, in the past i've used cl-mssql for SQL Server. 15:19:25 -!- dnolen` [~user@80.232.109.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:20:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:22:48 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 15:23:55 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:24:29 can postmodern be used with mysql? 15:26:56 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.58] has joined #lisp 15:28:19 ahungry: Only if mysql speaks postgresql wire protocol. 15:29:00 ahungry: You might be able to hack up s-sql to work with mysql, though, if you like that aspect of the syntax. 15:30:16 nyef: thanks 15:31:57 On the other hand, I hit the wall with s-sql quite some time ago. It's good for the simple stuff, but trying to do anything actually complicated leads to a series of desperate kludges. 15:35:31 -!- chameco [~samuel@rrcs-24-97-222-66.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:56 bitonic [~user@94.0.211.231] has joined #lisp 15:36:47 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:38:11 Hmmm of course weblocks wants clsql instead of postmodern. will have to think about which I want more weblocks or postmodern. 15:38:51 Or maybe not: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topic/weblocks/LNgwHPaO2pU 15:40:17 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:15 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:42:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:43:49 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:14 recycle` [~user@2600:1013:b01c:bebc:16d:a0ce:e9c:3ca4] has joined #lisp 15:45:43 -!- rootzlevel is now known as hpd 15:47:13 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:47:17 -!- recycle [~user@200.sub-70-211-7.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:30 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:51:01 -!- recycle` [~user@2600:1013:b01c:bebc:16d:a0ce:e9c:3ca4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:51:19 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:52:26 How can this be re-written so that I don't get unused-variable warnings: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137278 ? 15:53:58 don't have unused variables 15:54:31 the indentation is wrong.. but you want (declare (ignore start)) 15:54:45 it's a cl-ppcre problem 15:54:47 pretty sure you either want to use start or you're missing an anchor in that regex 15:55:10 jdz: and what problem is that? 15:55:37 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc52.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:55:45 (elt (nth-value 1 (cl-ppcre:scan-to-strings "[0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}-[0-9]{2}-(.+)" "1984-04-15-post-title.txt")) 0) => "post-title.txt" 15:56:15 stassats`: aaah! yes. totally forgot about nth-value 15:56:23 say what you want, but API design was not original author strong suit :-) 15:56:24 or r-g-bind 15:56:56 its high performance, but I cringe when I use it for some reason (yes you can fix it yourself by syntax sugar macros) 15:56:57 maxm: Yeah, Larry Wall's tastes seem sometimes strange. 15:57:40 rms actually had very good sense about it. you can look at Elisp code, without previously encountered any, and just knowing basic concepts like regex 15:57:41 samebchase: (ppcre:register-groups-bind (date title) ("^([0-9]{4}-[0-9]{2}-[0-9]{2})-(.+)$" "1984-04-15-post-title.txt") (values date title)) => "1984-04-15" "post-title.txt" 15:57:57 tesuji [~tesuji@mnhm-590c239b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:17 stassats`: nice. thanks. 15:58:20 developernotes [~Nick@ec2-23-23-158-237.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:27 and you will understand the code immediately. Ie string-match, looking-at, (match-string 1) (match-end 3) 15:58:43 if you know the names are all yyyy-mm-dd- you don't need regexes to extract it 15:59:22 adeht: just use subseq? 15:59:24 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@mnhm-590c239b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:32 yeah 15:59:32 what happens when the post title contains #\/? 15:59:37 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-199-165.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:39 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:18 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:44 recycle` [~user@2600:1012:b00c:f863:94cd:cf3f:a5b:de98] has joined #lisp 16:01:00 usually there won't be any "/" in filenames 16:01:20 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-34-66.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:01:26 submit your questions for Fare's ASDF talk here :) -- http://www.google.com/moderator/#15/e=20af16&t=20af16.40  hit the check box to vote up particular questions 16:01:48 I'm not able to create a file even with an escaped "/" 16:02:05 samebchase: in file *names*, I hope not. 16:03:24 nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 16:04:21 what if the post title exceeds the maximum file name length? 16:04:51 pkhuong: well, in my case i have a dumb macro which expands into code using register-groups-bind with empty var-list 16:04:52 the author should switch from dos or pick a shorter title: ) 16:05:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:34 pkhuong: i mean, the var-list is sometimes empty 16:06:21 so i have to generate different code to match the regexp if i don't use the matched groups... 16:06:59 (compile nil (lambda () (cl-ppcre:register-groups-bind () ("(x+)" "xxx") (format t "success!")))) 16:07:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:07:41 ikki [~ikki@187.208.214.214] has joined #lisp 16:07:44 why would you use register-groups-bind? 16:08:22 because somewhere else there would be bindings 16:08:43 you don't use different function defining macro for functions with and without parameters, right? 16:09:10 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:30 i'm not complaining, and my original claim about ppcre being the one to blame about the unused bindings is also false 16:09:33 so let's move on 16:09:40 why don't you send a patch then? 16:09:59 because i have not fixed it yet 16:10:11 well, why don't you fix it then? 16:10:22 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:10:41 it's not annoying me enough, yet 16:10:42 adding ignorable is trivial 16:10:43 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:44 -!- jangle_ is now known as jangle 16:11:03 that would not be the right fix, though 16:11:06 two ignorable forms. 16:11:12 why would it be the wrong fix? 16:11:34 the right fix would be to not create the bindings if the var-list is empty 16:11:42 but that's just me 16:11:44 maybe 16:15:15 OK, now that i look at it, just adding ignorable might be the right fix for this case. 16:15:29 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:15:32 G560 [~chatzilla@178.172.204.114] has joined #lisp 16:16:25 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:47 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:17:20 pnpuff [~smidgen@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:17:59 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:19:23 I shouldn't have used the term post-title 16:19:45 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.210.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:20:06 yyyy-mm-dd-file-name.md is how octopress does it 16:20:20 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.210.78] has joined #lisp 16:21:07 OK, got a chance to try out github's in-browser pull-request creation. looks like it works for simple cases like this. 16:22:51 -!- recycle` [~user@2600:1012:b00c:f863:94cd:cf3f:a5b:de98] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 16:25:57 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26:20 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 16:26:50 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:28:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:30:09 recycle` [~user@198-24-198-253.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:09 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.210.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:33 I wonder what it would take to port a lisp (e.g. sbcl) to run within Firefox via emscripten. it seems like there's already a lot of fairly impressive ports using emscripten. performance isn't perfect, but it'll probably improve. https://github.com/kripken/emscripten/wiki 16:30:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:33:06 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.214.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:05 <|3b|> probably hard to run a lisp that compiles to native code (like sbcl) with emscripten, might work with clisp or ecl thuogh 16:37:11 right, something that compiles to native code would probably have to treat LLVM like a new platform, then? 16:37:28 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:37 maybe that https://blog.netbsd.org/tnf/entry/kernel_drivers_compiled_to_javascript + ECL could be some start, but I think that there is already some cl on js project from scratch? 16:38:09 <|3b|> probably better to target asm.js instead of llvm if goal is to run on firefox 16:38:13 there are tons of cl and scheme attempts, and at least 3 clojure ones. http://ceaude.twoticketsplease.de/js-lisps.html 16:38:29 |3b|: afaik, asm.js is targetable from emscripten? the HN post could've been wrong, though. 16:38:50 <|3b|> generating llvm, then running emscripten to cross-compile it to js, then running the js all at runtime sounds a bit silly 16:39:09 <|3b|> (assuming you can even run emscripten from the browser) 16:39:13 |3b|: anyway, Lisp-to-JS has been a project on my todo for a while, but now that I have the free time (summer) I think it might be preferable to use asm.js and simply port an existing Lisp, which would probably give more of a full Lisp experience. 16:39:47 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has joined #lisp 16:39:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:39:47 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has quit [Changing host] 16:39:47 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:39:51 someone pointed out emscripten last time I was looking into Lisp-to-JS, maybe a year ago. but a lot of interesting demos have come out recently. 16:40:08 http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ 16:42:16 yes, it only gets about 30 FPS when natively I can frequently play games way above 100 FPS, so it's not ideal at the moment. of course, it doesn't need to be *ideal*. 16:42:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:44:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:44:33 that was supposedly ported in 4 days. apparently Qt is being ported too. going the emscripten route could possibly mean a lot of common libraries/applications would be portable. 16:45:05 -!- nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:45:08 I've not seen beach around lately, but if I remember he was assembling some collection of easily reusable cl implementation components, if you decide to go from scratch with cl->js translation, it might be useful if someone remembers about that 16:45:20 clang can't build clisp so emscripten won't build clisp 16:45:40 (that would be the easiest way to get lisp in js) 16:45:55 to me that seems to make the most sense, avoiding a lot of overhead and probably mapping code in a quite straightforward manner considering how js is dynamic itself 16:46:30 well, my original approach was going to essentially create a sort of Lisp-specific version of emscripten/asm.js. a sort of intermediate subset of JS to which you could compile cl or scheme. 16:46:52 of course, not owning my own web browser project, I won't be able to optimize this subset like Mozilla can with asm.js 16:47:04 aeth: I would just target asm.js directly 16:47:36 aeth: I've seen actual hardware assembly languages that were stranger 16:48:48 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-85-103.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:49:15 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has joined #lisp 16:49:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has quit [Changing host] 16:49:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:49:20 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.210.78] has joined #lisp 16:49:59 jasom: right, my initial plans were drawn up before asm.js. 16:50:22 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has joined #lisp 16:50:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:50:22 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has quit [Changing host] 16:50:22 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:51:39 jasom: do you think it would be better to just write the additional parts to sbcl (or another lisp) to treat asm.js as an assembly language rather than just subset cl? 16:52:17 ikki [~ikki@177.224.210.78] has joined #lisp 16:52:55 I'm not sure about other lisps (I don't have their repos up at the moment), but sbcl's loop.lisp is 1845 lines according to github's mirror. it would be a lot of reinventing the wheel to actually write my own lisp. 16:53:02 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:26 aeth: parenscript already subsets cl so I would improve that if your plan is to subset cl 16:54:16 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:54:28 well, I would prefer to port a cl directly to asm.js. running libraries (that make sense) on quicklisp would be a plus. 16:54:36 aeth: I've never tried to target sbcl (or another lisp) to a new architecture; someone who knows implementation internals better could talk about how easy it is to do that 16:54:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:55:45 my goal would be able to write a game library in cl that would be able to run game client code both in-browser and natively. this seems sufficiently hard. because it's a game, corners can't really be cut as easily. 16:55:48 aeth: quicklisp as-is is going to be a no-go for running in the browser, since you can't open up a socket to an arbitrary address; I suppose you could pre-download all the systems you need and put them in your image 16:55:49 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:10 <|3b|> aeth: you don't have to reinvent all of the implementation, you can reuse a bunch of the pieces from other lisps, and writing a new backend for an existing lisp would be a lot of work too 16:56:33 |3b|: right. what I'm going to try to be determining is which one is more work. :-) 16:56:41 can sbcl cross compile itself? 16:56:46 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:57:04 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has joined #lisp 16:57:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:57:04 jasom: Yes. 16:57:05 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 16:57:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has quit [Changing host] 16:57:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:57:17 jasom: yes, it will necessarily be limited in what it can do because of the browser. I meant the top libraries on quicklisp that are capable of being ported. 16:57:42 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:57:51 aeth: everything that doesn't ffi or open sockets should be trivial to port if you have a working lisp implementation 16:58:09 note that it would be the client code, not the server code, that would run in-browser. 16:58:17 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:58:17 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.3.157] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:17 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 jasom: You'll need a host machine and a target. Unpack on the target. Run make-config.sh on the target, copy everything to the host, run make-host-1.sh on the host, copy everything to the target... It's pretty straightforward. 16:58:57 jasom: if emscripten were used instead, wouldn't that allow FFI? 16:59:15 For a new architecture, the only example of that being done since the x86-64 port (itself mostly a hack on the x86 backend) is the arm port, which isn't complete yet. 16:59:21 aeth: yes, but you don't have emscripten on the browser 16:59:31 <|3b|> aeth: FFI to what though? wouldn't expect a browser to let you load arbitrary c libs 16:59:33 ah 16:59:44 -!- pnpuff [~smidgen@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 16:59:47 |3b|: I suppose you could bundle it with the application itself? 17:00:04 aeth: you need to target asm.js directly; you might be able to build the c libraries with emscripten and ffi to it 17:00:31 *|3b|* suspects most of the C libs worth FFIing to need to talk to other C libs or the OS 17:00:32 ah, ok 17:00:42 <|3b|> so unless you plan to bundle the whole OS, probably wouldn't help much 17:00:48 aeth: |3b|: the way emscripten works is you bundle all external files and it implements libc calls to the file-system by opening them 17:00:58 |3b|: emscripten implements nearly all of libc 17:01:10 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:01:24 |3b|: well, I'm assuming that asm.js has some sort of opengl subset that's really webgl, or else it would be harder to port over the sort of demos that are ported over. and Qt is being ported too, apparently. 17:05:12 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.178] has joined #lisp 17:06:22 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:12 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:37 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 17:13:09 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:13:40 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:24 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 17:14:49 breakds 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quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:22:52 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.67.7] has joined #lisp 18:24:14 pierpa [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:24:28 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboc52.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29:06 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 18:29:34 maxm: in http://j.mp/asdf-q you say "dependency generation"  can I presume by this you mean a way to have the :depends-on and :components computed on at the last possible moment? 18:32:19 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755747.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:11 fihi09 [~user@pool-108-27-202-14.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:41:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:41:41 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:25 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@62.182.193.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47:55 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:21 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:51:31 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:52:21 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:54:03 davazp [~user@92.251.196.202.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 18:54:09 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:48 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298C4E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:34 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:00:01 bhyde: yea, in a large project manually specifying dependencies is a nightmare 19:00:37 I don't think anyone with >20 source files projects use anything other then :sequential t 19:00:50 i certainly don't :) 19:01:11 heh well, some of us have more patience then others I guess 19:01:17 maybe a new tool generate-my-asd-damn-it 19:01:22 I have, but I'm careful about managing the dependencies of my source 19:02:03 maxm: the bigger my project gets, the less inclined I am to use :serial t 19:02:05 but in C++ land, folks discovered that fast regexp scanning is good enough to generate good dependencies in 99% of cases. Ie cmake, or my favourite is BoostBuild... You just throw anything at it, and it just works 19:02:11 it's rare I can trust my peers to maintain all the dependencies  it requires wisdom 19:02:12 various src/ directories depend on defs, depends on compile/ 19:02:30 layers is the way to go 19:02:44 you don't want to end up managing per-file dependencies 19:02:56 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:02:59 i've heard good things about modularity, i'be been meaning to try it some time 19:03:18 *sykopomp* wants to NIH a file-per-module system that builds its dependency tree 19:03:37 would be useful to have this in lisp, with minimalistic default scanner provided that does some grepping of sources for defmacro, defvar and defclass, and adds dependencies to these the definition source file, to files where they are used (usage being defvar referenced, macro called, or class used in a specializer of a method) 19:04:14 *bhyde* mumbles to himself about macros, cross reference tools, code walking, and ponies 19:04:38 maxm: eh .. i'd think it'd be simpler just to start compiling things, and build a list of failures (undefined function, forward declared class, etc) then rebuild as those get compiled in, and then cache the order of compilation 19:04:42 well it would certainly be better then current method of "nuke fasl's and reload" 19:04:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:05:02 and asdf maker would be pretty popular. 19:05:12 oGMo: you going the "too complicated quickly escalated into hard and unusable" direction 19:05:24 or just write (defmodule ... )at the top of every file 19:05:29 maxm: that is neither complicated nor hard 19:05:32 regexp based scanning of outside is simple, efficient, and will "mostly work" 19:05:39 and declare what you need there. Should be fairly small, per-file. :) 19:05:52 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-153-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:59 I've seen one that just uses a package per file. You :use other packages to declare dependencies 19:06:14 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:06:26 yeah, that works too 19:06:46 oGMo: well, if you are volunteering to write it using your method, do it, I'll certainly use it if it "just works".. I'm not particularly hang up on a method, just pointing out that if I were doing it, I'll write the way described above 19:06:47 doesn't that just move the same dependency problem to defpackage instead of asdf? 19:07:03 well, you end up not having another file to maintain 19:07:11 karswell [~user@87.112.161.139] has joined #lisp 19:07:22 oGMo: it compartmentalizes the problem. 19:07:49 dlowe: you still need to ensure the load order so that the package you use in your file exists before it's read 19:07:50 *bhyde* trys to recall who wrote deflog-macros :) 19:07:58 which brings you back to :serial t 19:08:42 assuming you're not going the C method of manually loading files in every file, which i suppose you could, but gets pretty tedious and painful 19:08:58 oGMo: yes, but that's pretty trivial to do. you look to see if the package is loaded and if it isn't, you load the file that defines that package 19:09:03 sykopomp: that still means you doing the work, that automated tools could have been doing.. I certainly had sometimes forgotten that I had put some weird method into a file not suitable for it, and had forgotten to add dependency manually (I still have my :depends-on in .asd, but usually just nuke and reload, coz of problems like this) 19:09:07 oGMo: And if your build tool can map from package definitions to the files they came from, and build a linear compile order for you? 19:09:30 maxm: I don't trust "kinda mostly probably works" for anything, and I find that explicitly declaring dependencies helps me reason about a system. 19:09:49 twice i've fallen into a legacy system that required loading it a few times before you could compile it :) 19:09:52 nyef: yes and you're just reinventing asdf, except instead of doing it once in the asd, you're doing it in every file 19:09:55 *nyef* agrees with sykopomp here. 19:09:58 whereas offloading the dependencies into "well this thing kinda looks like maybe it fits over here" seems like a recipe for disaster. 19:10:20 No, I'm not. I'm defining a package, with explicit dependencies in every file. 19:10:40 That's not reinventing ASDF, that's using fine-grained package. 19:10:44 right, which is like specifying :depends-on in every file, instead of in one file 19:11:23 Sure, it distributes your dependency graph. But you only modify that graph one file at a time. 19:11:30 even if you make a "smart" defpackage-with-loading that interprets package names, that's still equivalent to :depends-on 19:11:35 and seriously, the pathological case is for these dependencies to be 10-15 lines long. 30 for really insane cases. 19:11:55 sykopomp: I trust automated scanning or regression testing more then myself, taught by evidence :-) 19:12:14 I guess we've had different debugging experiences in life. 19:12:15 circular dependencies are pathological cases? 19:12:18 best of luck to you 19:12:22 46 for my pathological case, but I'm trying to knock that down. 19:12:30 (also you have the C problem where your code seems to wokr because a package is loaded by something else, but you alter that and now it's failing) 19:12:40 (because you forgot to include it in the current file) 19:12:59 as opposed to "oops, I wasn't supposed to name a variable that way, why is my file loading before that now?" 19:13:27 different strokes for diff folks as they say 19:13:31 aha, I got clisp building with a new enough clang to try emscripten 19:13:46 That dependency problem is much, much rarer if you refuse to use package-qualified symbols in your source code, or only for packages that have an explicit :import-from. 19:13:55 jasom: this can only end well (: 19:14:57 well the tool you're talking about should be pretty straightforward to write, so go for it 19:15:09 there's a couple of folks with such tools already 19:15:13 I just want to NIH it 19:17:40 Mmm-hmm. I wrote one and actually saved it in a lisp file after I got tired of trying to remember the magic incantation required to load a couple of my projects on the one side, and tired of maintaining a linear build order on another. 19:17:57 I'll probably rewrite it again from scratch if I need another copy... 19:19:14 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-250-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29:06 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:30:13 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:29 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:46 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:32:23 -!- recycle` [~user@198-24-198-253.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:56 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:11 ManAmongHippos [8a1a4027@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.26.64.39] has joined #lisp 19:34:39 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:01 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:50 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:38:57 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.196.202.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:00 Hetu [~Hetu@i59F7119D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:39 -!- rk[fishing] [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:41:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:19 pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:43:24 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:43:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-18.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:43:58 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:44:30 this code walking might actually make it pretty easy to get the inter-file dependencies for a ASDF system definition generator - http://paste.lisp.org/+2XXC. 19:45:11 sadly there don't seem to be much doc or any examples easily found 19:45:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-184.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:31 maxm: ^ 19:46:27 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:10 Just make it a requirement that the first form in your file be a defpackage, and grab the :USE and any :IMPORT-FROM clauses. 19:48:49 (To declare a simple dependency, without importing any symbols, use :IMPORT-FROM for a package without a list of symbols.) 19:50:00 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:50:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:50:50 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:03 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:59 nyef, it seems like your presuming no usage of :: and one-file == one-package ? 19:53:46 Explicitly, yes. I said so about forty minutes ago. 19:54:54 My files all start with a defpackage / in-package sequence. My build system has a list of root files and a scheme for mapping from package name to file name, and knows how to parse defpackage. 19:55:31 It is fairly rare that I have to update the list of roots, as most of the time when I'm adding a new file it's because I'm refactoring pieces away from an old file. 19:55:56 no doubt builds can be made simpler with a handful of coding conventions 19:55:57 Which winds up being a purely local operation in terms of updating defpackage forms. 19:56:34 i've oft worked on big lisp systems with one huge package and a hundred files; we seemed to be happy :) 19:56:46 Any outside dependencies are brought in via quicklisp, and all of a sudden I'm not dealing with ASDF anymore, which is WONDERFUL. 19:56:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:39 I also only have to worry about dependency issues when the build system pitches a fit about a circular dependency. 19:58:11 pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:01:32 bhyde: those make me cry 20:02:04 And the combination of one-package-per-file and tight limits on file size leads to knowing fairly well what any given part of the system does, but it can make it harder to remember which package you need for certain functionality. 20:02:11 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 20:02:54 azathoth99 [~g@cpe-98-154-167-76.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:05 I think that it's a very interesting spot in the design space, at least. 20:03:09 yes ending up having to know explicitly which file something was defined in to use it seems to defeat the point of the package abstraction heh 20:03:26 -!- azathoth99 [~g@cpe-98-154-167-76.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:03:36 And the style of a small number of large packages and large files is... Well, I think that Xach has it right. 20:03:46 personally i think it'd be neat if the compiler did dependencies on a toplevel-form basis, but that's not really in the scope of CL 20:04:02 (and did them _automatically_) 20:04:17 Isn't that what ASDF-DEPENDENCY-GROVEL was for, back in the day? 20:04:37 not familiar 20:05:09 Neither am I, and I'm grateful for it! 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(polymorphic types) 21:47:18 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 21:47:33 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 21:47:56 :include is how inheriting is implemented with structures. 21:48:49 But notice however, that you could define generic accessor to different slots in different structures, and generic functions using them, so they don't really need to be common. 21:49:43 (defgeneric wheels (object) (:method ((object car)) (car-wheels object)) (:method ((object plane)) (plane-gears object))) 21:50:26 i am trying to use OO as little as possible to learn more about FP and CL generally 21:50:32 (defgeneric (setf wheels) (new-wheels object) (:method ((new-wheels car-wheels) (object car)) (setf (car-wheels object) new-wheels)) (:method ((new-gears plane-gears) (object plane)) (setf (plane-gears object) new-gears))) 21:50:50 nan-: it is not possible, closures are equivalent to objects. 21:50:57 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:51:18 You cannot learn one without learning the other. 21:51:48 bitonic` [~user@2.221.9.18] has joined #lisp 21:51:58 *|3b|* wonders what makes CLOS classes 'OO' but structs not 21:52:30 Me too. I specifically mentionned :include = structure inheritance 21:53:08 i meant using GFs not class vs struct 21:53:24 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:53:28 -!- bitonic [~user@94.11.45.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:31 <|3b|> well, if you use classes, you could just give the slots the same name 21:53:55 <|3b|> which you would presumably pass to slot-value to avoid accidentally calling any generic functions 21:54:41 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:55:33 ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has joined #lisp 21:56:27 pjb: |3b|: thankies 21:57:27 nan-: there's little point in writing (defun wheels (object) (typecase object (car (car-wheels object)) (plane (plane-gears object)))) instead of the above defgeneric! 21:58:20 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298C4E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-0.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:19 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:59:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:56 i quite like (defgeneric .. (:method ) (:method )) 22:00:21 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 22:02:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298C4E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:49 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 22:04:39 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:07 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:42 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 22:07:51 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-153-245.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:08:22 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@87.109.3.234] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 22:10:03 regaluz [~regaluz@97.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:33 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:18:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-185.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:18:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.148] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:19:13 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:39 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:59 pierpa` [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:21:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:08 -!- pierpa [~user@host117-20-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:23:48 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-226.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:24:38 teiresia1 [~teiresias@75-175-60-174.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:07 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:28:52 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:44 -!- teiresia1 is now known as teiresias 22:32:58 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@75-175-60-174.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:32:58 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 22:34:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:39:26 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:40:18 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:41:11 ryankarason [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:23 -!- ryankarason [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:44:49 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:51:40 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:21 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:53:25 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-148-141-128.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 22:54:54 -!- sellout- [~Adium@pat-ip-195-91-109-4.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-43.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:57:42 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:59:57 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:02:02 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.148] has joined #lisp 23:03:58 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:19 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:06:24 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:57 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 23:08:31 How are dynamic variables stored in a thread-local manner in different CL implementations? 23:10:05 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-169-126.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:11 is there any better way of doing enums CFFI then this? 23:11:29 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:11:41 enums on http://paste.lisp.org/display/137282 23:12:10 seems like make-hash-table on every access is weird, like if I'm gonna try to push as many small messages through as possible as fast as possible 23:12:37 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:14:13 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 23:14:34 I don't get it why cffi has to parse type at runtime, can't (foreign-enum-value 'blah-groveled-type runtime-value), why 'blah-groveled-type has to be parsed every time, it seems to have compiler macros for all other cases 23:15:08 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:15:42 maxm: PZMQ:GETSOCKOPT calls CFFI:FOREIGN-ENUM-VALUE with non-constant argument 23:16:37 there is a compiler macro on CFFI:FOREIGN-ENUM-VALUE, but that only kicks in with a constant argument 23:17:13 which means that you'd have to inline everything 23:17:24 solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 23:17:25 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:17:28 so both type and keyword have to be constant? why having type constant enough 23:17:36 or avoid CFFI enums and use plain integers 23:17:40 not enough 23:17:57 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-78-193.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:17 actually manual says "it will be automatically converted on calls to foreign functions) 23:18:44 that's correct 23:18:58 will (%getsockopt socket runtime-keyword-value ...) still do the parse type thing? 23:19:22 coz seems calling (foreign-enum-value) is reduntant 23:19:24 only if %getsockopt is inlined 23:19:49 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-169-126.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:20:25 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:20:38 -!- miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:01 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:38 Vicfred [~anon@189.232.52.8] has joined #lisp 23:27:53 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:29:42 fe[nl]ix: no it seems optimized it anyway 23:30:13 ie get rid of id, and change %getsockopt definition to use "socket-options" type instead of :int 23:30:42 (trace foreign-enum-value) and nothing in output 23:31:07 btw I tried (trace parse-type) first, and was flooded with (parse-type :int) being called millions of time 23:31:13 which is weird 23:31:49 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-76-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:33:10 ah its from (cffi:foreign-type-size :int) which pzmq::getsockopt calls 23:33:39 we can assume its constant and use #.(foreign-type-size :int) here pretty much 23:33:50 but would be nice if cffi optimized that itself 23:35:29 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.210.78] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:37:50 -!- Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:28 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 23:39:07 Hi, does Slime have any possibility of displaying some kind of "Running" status in the status line? (as you may know Franz ELI shows a "Running" status when the Lisp is busy) 23:39:45 -!- d11wtq [~chris@124-148-163-108.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:32 solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 23:42:16 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-101-72.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:34 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-101-72.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:44:56 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-27-7.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:20 gendl: there appears to be slime-repl-return-hooks 23:46:52 so you can add a function in there, that sets a variable, then reference that variable from command line. Although it would've been nice if slime-repl already had such variable 23:47:45 itsnevereasy [~itsnevere@c-24-61-43-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:46 "reference from command line" above should be "reference it from status bar format" 23:48:41 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:46 does cffi accept pull requests? I'll add some compiler macros for foreign-type-size and foreign-enum-value/keyword on constant first arg