00:00:16 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:01:55 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 00:04:53 -!- bitonic [~user@176.248.38.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:20 -!- TBM|away [~Incredibl@unaffiliated/incredible] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:59 luzie [~lucy@229.134.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 00:08:05 -!- miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:10:26 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:14:17 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:41 satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.204] has joined #lisp 00:21:41 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.0.244] has joined #lisp 00:23:55 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 00:25:01 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-105-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 00:25:57 AgJ19 [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:58 -!- AgJ19 [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:28:15 davorb [~davor@194.47.245.35] has joined #lisp 00:28:43 ThePhoer1n [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:03 asedeno_ [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has joined #lisp 00:31:09 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 00:32:04 stMTl [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:41 stokachu_ [~stokachu@ajscg.com] has joined #lisp 00:32:46 any lispers here in or around Portland? I briefly searched for a meetup group and saw Clojerks but that's about it. 00:33:15 briefly considered starting a group... but I'm new to the area and would have no idea where to hold such a thing. 00:33:20 -!- stMTl [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:27 -!- luzie [~lucy@229.134.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-177-174.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 00:33:28 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.114.229.9] has quit 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[~delicious@68.68.99.242] has joined #lisp 00:55:08 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:56:23 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.228.91] has joined #lisp 00:56:34 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.228.91] has quit [Client Quit] 00:57:40 KDr2_ [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has joined #lisp 00:59:36 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 01:01:24 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:05 hi 01:02:14 *Xach* just got the idea of using an :after method on a change-class with an eql specializer and hopes it's not a bad idea 01:02:55 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:05:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:06:23 what's the rule of thumb size for alist vs. hash table? PCL doesn't actually give a rough number. 01:06:44 aeth: Funny, I've been wondering the same thing. A ballpark guess is about 5. 01:07:05 maybe 3 01:07:11 *alpha123* will run some tests 01:07:15 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.196.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:08:13 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:59 d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has joined #lisp 01:09:06 ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:56 pSuT7 [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:57 -!- pSuT7 [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:11:23 aeth: a hash table is *barely* faster for 3 items. For either of them it's nearly instantaneous for less than 10,000,000 iterations. :P 01:11:53 the alist is more memory efficient though 01:12:27 so does that mean that for any small data set literally declared, it's perhaps better to use alist for readability? 01:12:47 I'd say so 01:13:32 ah, okay. this is the most confusing part of Common Lisp for me. most languages don't give you the luxury of choice, which makes it easier :P 01:13:48 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-105-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 01:14:40 kQI7q [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:41 -!- kQI7q [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:14:49 readability goes plist > alist > hashtable, but flexiblity goes hashtable > alist > plist 01:15:23 wgRwm [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:24 -!- wgRwm [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:16:43 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.21.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:16:54 TYiqy [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:55 -!- TYiqy [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:17:45 lwU4Q [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:46 -!- lwU4Q [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:18:28 zDyVN [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:29 -!- zDyVN [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 01:23:30 -!- miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:48 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.105.158] has joined #lisp 01:25:06 aeth alpha123 plists/alists have the bonus property of being almost persistent datastructures. I use plists almost exclusively for readability until proven insuficient. 01:27:49 *pavelpenev* says good night to #lisp 01:27:53 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Quiting] 01:29:21 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.105.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:29:38 -!- nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:53 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@76-205-169-48.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:54 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:39:04 satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.204] has joined #lisp 01:43:16 chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.118.114.216] has joined #lisp 01:44:05 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:46:30 -!- chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.118.114.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:13 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.163.93] has joined #lisp 01:48:58 satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.204] has joined #lisp 01:49:36 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:53:52 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:54:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.163.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:57:12 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:57:40 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:58:00 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 02:01:41 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 02:04:14 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:07:40 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:07:41 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:56 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-soytqxfuerwakyom] has joined #lisp 02:08:10 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-143-55.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:19 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-123-121.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:13:57 nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-123-107.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:19 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-143-55.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:18:26 Xach I guess you mean Portland Maine :) I should have mentioned I was asking about Oregon 02:20:22 -!- ryankara1on is now known as marchtemp 02:22:35 -!- marchtemp is now known as ryanalankarason 02:23:55 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.213.13] has joined #lisp 02:26:14 replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:24 Xach: you mean you're in Dorset, England? 02:26:44 -!- asedeno_ [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:27:04 -!- notori0us is now known as ryanakarason 02:27:45 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 02:28:35 asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-dlnuxuxevhvqfmjd] has joined #lisp 02:31:51 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-soytqxfuerwakyom] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:26 what's the difference between alist,plist and hashtable ? 02:34:45 -!- ryanakarason is now known as notori0us 02:35:08 the former two are lists 02:36:03 then the difference between alist and plist ? 02:36:26 zRecursive: alist is a list of pairs while plist is flat 02:36:35 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 02:36:41 alist is ((key . value) (key2 . value2) ...) while plist is (key value key2 value2 ...) 02:36:43 e.g. ((:a 1) (:b 2)) is an alist 02:36:50 while (:a 1 :b 2) is a plist 02:37:03 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-srooysentligekhl] has joined #lisp 02:37:16 the benefit from plists is that you can use numbers, symbols, or characters as keys 02:37:22 *alists 02:37:35 while plists can only use symbols 02:37:56 then plist is much flexible 02:38:08 symbols have plists too 02:38:32 zRecursive: I made a typo. alists can use numbers, symbols and characters 02:38:37 plists can only use symbols 02:38:53 oh 02:39:29 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 02:39:45 does 'p' mean property and 'a' means attribute ? 02:39:52 Association. 02:40:02 Bike: thx 02:40:31 alist is much like hash-table ? 02:40:52 yeah 02:41:02 it's sort of like a small lightweight hash table 02:41:21 except that it doesn't involve hashing at all...? 02:41:28 right 02:41:38 so it's much less efficient for more than about 3 items 02:41:38 So... not like a hash table. 02:42:00 well, the usage is similar to a hash table, but the implementation is much different 02:42:29 #'assoc is used to manipulate alist ? 02:42:33 yup 02:42:38 and all the usual list operations 02:42:57 ok 02:43:32 so (push (cons #\a 1) *some-alist*) adds a new pair, and (assoc #\a *some-alist*) returns the value 02:44:15 pair? 02:44:30 why do we need plist which seems NOT readable 02:44:45 minion: tell zRecursive about gentle 02:44:45 zRecursive: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 02:44:48 plist is very readable. 02:45:07 DataLinkDroid: cons cell, whatever 02:45:55 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:45:57 alpha123: what's the corresponding function as #assoc using plist ? 02:46:03 #'getf 02:46:18 (getf :key the-plist) 02:46:43 and (setf (getf :key the-plist) value) to add a new key/value 02:47:11 getf/setf seems NOT plist specific ? 02:47:17 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:18 getf is 02:47:22 setf different. 02:47:23 setf is not however 02:47:25 is different*. 02:47:38 getf is a bit of a misnomer, it sounds more general than it is :P 02:48:04 yeah, more general 02:59:32 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-uwoxzyhczhdjsbfl] has joined #lisp 03:01:38 If I got to redesign CL, I'd rename GETFGETP, SETFSET, and get rid of SETQ 03:01:55 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:02:52 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 03:02:53 loke_, you can create your own package on top of CL if that's the only thing that bothers you. 03:03:32 Fare: that is not the only thing that bothers me :-) 03:03:49 there we go... what are more important things that do? 03:04:04 Fare: Hmm... 03:04:27 Fare: I'd make sequences generic, I'd fix pathnames. And I'd make packages a bit more sane. 03:04:33 loke_: getp might be confused for a predicate though 03:04:39 although you could replace all those with ? 03:05:16 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:21 alpha123: You're right. Plist lookup is rare enough that PLIST-LOOKUP is probably a better name. 03:05:53 loke_: I'd probably just replace all the P's with ? like in Scheme 03:05:55 protist [~protist@67.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 03:06:14 get-prop might be a less extreme solution than the question mark route... ;-) 03:06:24 alpha123: I don't mind about that. I'm used to P, but as long as it's consistent I wouldn't care much. 03:06:24 loke_: i hope there is standard spec. for thread and socket 03:06:48 loke_: I've gotten sort of used to P, but ? is still just a lot nicer, I think. 03:06:57 Like in Ruby and Scheme 03:07:06 file-exists-p or file-exists? 03:07:13 I know what I prefer ;) 03:07:14 zRecursive: ah see, that's where I don't mind the current situation. We have something in nordeaux-threads that it's so close to being a standard that there would be very little benefit from addressing it in a new standard 03:07:26 alpha123: i like ? instead of p ? 03:07:33 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 03:07:35 loke_: that's a good start, and it doesn't require too deep a set of changes, though wrt to how pathnames interact with open and load, that can't be portable. 03:07:36 Extensible sequences and LOOP extensions though... 03:07:44 but I suppose that's what iolib is doing. 03:07:47 and format extensions would be nice 03:07:56 alpha123: Ah yes 03:08:06 except to standardise it... :) 03:08:15 alpha123, uiop:file-exists-p 03:08:40 Fare: vs (uiop:file-exists? "something.txt") 03:08:40 uiop:file-exists? much clear ? 03:08:55 ? is not colloquial CL 03:08:59 zRecursive: the -p is perfectly clear, I just like the look of ? 03:09:09 Fare: alpha wanted a new CL standard to change P to ? 03:09:16 Fare: We were talking about if we did the standard differently. 03:09:17 #scheme is this way 03:09:22 as is Ruby 03:09:34 alpha123, well, what do you think of R7RS ? 03:09:41 Fare: I don't actually use Scheme :P 03:09:58 It's not practical enough, IMO. Common Lisp is far better. 03:10:07 Fare: what's the big differences in r7? My understaning is that the community disliked R6? 03:10:10 at least i will type less one character using *? instead of *-p 03:10:11 for some definition of "practical". 03:10:24 zRecursive: Pick a different language if you want short function names 03:10:32 R7RS large will have plenty of standard libraries — more than is part of CL 03:10:49 alpha123: i just want CL more better 03:10:55 zRecursive: besides, if your editor doesn't have autocomplete you're Doing It Wrong 03:11:10 zRecursive: That's the cool part about CL, *you* can make it better. 03:11:11 is a matter of tastes, for me p(redicate) sound more logic then ? 03:11:18 better-cl.asd is not hard to write — go do it. once again, iolib is a good start. 03:11:51 You could define a macro to transform p or -p into ?, if you wanted to (and didn't care for whoever has to maintain your code....) 03:12:00 *zRecursive* in fact i hope something appears in ANSI standard 03:12:07 Fat chance. :P 03:12:27 ANSI is so 1980s 03:13:05 and this is bad? :) 03:13:09 Fare: when CL ANSI standards is fixed ? 03:13:13 Guys, I have one problem with Lisp readbility. I sometimes find it hard to make out a - vs. a space. So something like (foo-bar-with-long name-here is-difficult-to make-out), I find it hard to quickly see where the parameter names are. I wouldn't want to go as far as advicating camelHumps, but perhaps a different font, or I've thought of rendering spaces with a grey background or something. 03:13:19 Am I alone in this? 03:13:29 yes. If you want to make a new standard, it probably won't be ANSI. 03:13:43 I also thought of making emacs render minus signs in bold 03:13:44 loke_: Just pick a new font 03:13:55 I like Adobe Source Code Pro (google it) personally 03:13:59 any random group of people can meet on the internet, start a website, and publish their stuff 03:14:02 alpha123: I use that one 03:14:39 who needs ANSI? For the joy of paying hundreds of dollars for a paper-reprint of a bad quality scan of some document? 03:14:57 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:15:29 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 03:15:32 Fare: CL implementations need standard, donot they ? 03:15:35 *rszeno* i was thinking more to being '80 then to being ansi, :) 03:15:39 do they? 03:15:40 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:45 why? 03:15:47 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@123.208.82.110] has joined #lisp 03:15:58 portable 03:16:02 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:16:02 -!- protist [~protist@67.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:16:06 Fare, +1 03:16:08 what's your value proposition? 03:16:13 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 03:16:37 portability is a matter of acceptance not standardization 03:17:01 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.213.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:17:12 thread and socket should be standard 03:17:20 rszeno, is it? to a point, maybe. If it were, more people would use uiop and/or it would have been written earlier. 03:17:39 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 03:17:41 zRecursive, what about async i/o? 03:18:16 event polling? co-routines? 03:18:18 loke_: cool. :) I have no trouble making out hyphens vs spaces, maybe it's my screen. 03:18:29 first-class multi-entry continuations? 03:18:43 nope 03:18:53 allocation regions? 03:18:53 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:55 alpha123: How long would it take you to count the number of symbols in the example I gave? 03:18:56 first class continuations add a lot of complexity without adding much benefit 03:19:16 loke_: Not very. 03:19:17 dnolen` [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:30 without... to someone used to programming without them. So did they say of GC, etc. 03:20:04 fare is aware of oleg's stuff on delimited continuations, i hope 03:20:05 what about co-routines, i.e. one shot continuations? 03:20:37 Bike: would be nice to have that 03:20:57 i.e., about them being better than traditional continuations 03:21:06 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:21:15 coroutines would be nice 03:21:17 Something like Erlang's threads and messages would be nice 03:21:55 Bike: yes, of course 03:22:09 definitely. 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the connection] 05:08:41 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:26 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 05:10:37 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 05:11:31 spacefrogg^ [~spacefrog@141.76.92.5] has joined #lisp 05:11:42 -!- guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:12:01 -!- hQqRw [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:12:48 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:01 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@123.208.82.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:16:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:19:01 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:20:18 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 05:23:36 -!- arkx_ is now known as arkx 05:23:57 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 05:24:11 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 05:26:15 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD1685.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:28:07 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 05:28:54 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:28:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:28:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:29:54 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-130-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:39 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c082a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:06 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 05:32:34 -!- Guest12382 [~lukas@194.228.13.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:34:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 05:35:38 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:37:10 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-210-110.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:37:16 -!- dnolen` [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:22 mal_ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.143.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:39:01 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 05:39:09 is there chess engine written in lisp ? 05:40:33 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:41:05 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:01 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:25 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 05:44:37 a good one? don't think so 05:45:05 probably old ones from the 1970s or early 1980s 05:48:24 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 05:49:39 -!- svecias49293 [pinc@cpc2-wake1-0-0-cust240.17-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:51:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-175-226.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:53:30 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 05:54:33 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:56:41 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:09 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58:07 d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has joined #lisp 05:58:53 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 06:00:00 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-210-110.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:00:38 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-58-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:01:57 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.52.117] has joined #lisp 06:03:25 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-14.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:03:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:04:02 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 06:05:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:06:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.52.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:08:52 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:08:53 So I think I implemented LOAD-TIME-VALUE correctly but I'm still not sure what it's value is. 06:09:33 In this example: http://pastebin.com/CCUsQscc 06:10:02 What is the difference between the uncommented code and the commented code. 06:10:31 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 06:10:58 Other than the (first *foo-arrays*) gets evaluated once at load-time and then treated like a literal. While in the commented out code the (first *foo-arrays*) is evaluated every time I invoke one of the functions. 06:11:37 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:11:53 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:20 I guess if (first *foo-arrays*) had side-effects then the side-effects would only be evaluated once for each LOAD-TIME-VALUE. 06:13:35 drmeister: imagine calling foo1-ref, doing (setf (first *foo-arrays*) (make-array 13)), and then calling foo1-ref again 06:14:40 I think I see what you are saying. 06:15:38 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-58-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:32 I just tried that, the (setf (first *foo-arrays*) (make-array 20)) had no effect on the values returned by (foo1-ref ...) 06:16:45 That's what's supposed to happen with the l-t-v in there - right? 06:17:02 yeah 06:17:23 Monkey-see, monkey-do. 06:17:54 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.104.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:19:09 Ok, well I didn't implement the read-only-p part of it. I'm not sure how I would make values read-only. 06:19:13 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:19:45 You (as the implementor) don't have to do anything if you don't want to, iirc. it just means you can coalesce them and stuff. 06:19:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:19:59 That's what I figured. 06:20:43 Well, this should be good enough to get the ECL condition code working. Let's see how that goes. 06:21:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:21:47 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD1685.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:22:08 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:29 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:23:15 cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-210-14.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:24:29 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 06:25:23 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.121.151] has joined #lisp 06:26:19 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:13 satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:40 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:03 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:33:09 -!- jtza8 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has joined #lisp 07:23:15 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:24:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:31:18 GTiXm [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:51 is altering *default-pathname-defaults* useful? 07:34:04 -!- GTiXm [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:06 definitely (: 07:34:19 it's like a CWD you can dynamically bind 07:34:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:34:43 (if you execute shell programs you'll still have to chdir places, but if not... 07:35:11 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 07:35:17 pTvRp [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:19 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-213-211.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:36:29 is it bad form to (setf *default-pathname-defaults* ...) in the toplevel of a .lisp file? 07:36:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:37:20 bitonic [~user@151.225.21.97] has joined #lisp 07:39:39 -!- pTvRp [~icanhazfr@S010608863b327591.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:53 -!- d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:42:38 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-135-51.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:46:24 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7550d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:47:47 ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 07:49:01 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 07:49:43 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:54:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:55:24 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:55:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:55:38 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@141.76.92.5] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 07:55:53 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:57:20 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 07:57:55 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 07:57:58 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:01:01 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-37.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:51 why do some people return (values) from functions that have nothing else to return? 08:04:15 convention 08:04:37 is it just an indicator to human-readers of the code? 08:04:56 input-output dualism 08:05:15 s/ dualism// 08:05:45 (defun do-nothing (&rest args) (declare (ignore args)) (values)) ;; my preference 08:07:43 robot-beethoven: pretty much. it's basically the same as returning nil. 08:09:02 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 08:09:43 (values) 08:09:44 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC 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ZZZzzz] 09:06:29 davazp [~user@178.167.244.147.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 09:07:07 -!- kanru [~kanru@173.243.46.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:08:06 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:19 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:09:25 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 09:10:28 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ymcelhkyhbunfqtq] has joined #lisp 09:10:29 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-51-245.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:29 saeftl [cbauerm@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 09:10:29 -!- hobana.freenode.net changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.18, ELS'13 Registration Open, SBCL 1.1.7, CL-PPCRE 2.0.4, DRAKMA 1.3.2, CFFI 0.11.1, ASDF 3.0.0 09:11:49 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:11:53 -!- billstclair is now known as Guest26294 09:12:55 -!- Guest26294 is now known as billstclair 09:13:00 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-51-245.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:13:00 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:15:14 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:17:48 Alaa [~alaa@92.96.49.185] has joined #lisp 09:18:06 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 09:20:02 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:20:18 asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-tkaijkedsghpwwwr] has joined #lisp 09:24:54 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-150-5.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 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quit [Quit: leaving] 09:53:59 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:55:05 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has joined #lisp 09:55:58 sellout- [~Adium@pat-ip-195-91-110-117.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 09:56:12 harish [~harish@119.234.177.209] has joined #lisp 10:02:35 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:36 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:02:36 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:03:05 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:04:44 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.177.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:29 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:44 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:09:07 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:09:31 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:10:05 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 10:10:15 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:34 harish [~harish@119.234.173.170] has joined #lisp 10:12:34 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:14:43 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 10:16:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:18:31 -!- flip214_ [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:29 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 10:19:29 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 10:19:29 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 10:19:49 nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 10:21:31 there is no lisp but lisp 10:23:43 -!- ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:10 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:26:20 d11wtq [~chris@124-148-163-108.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:28:20 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:56 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-52-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:30:54 -!- KDr2_ [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:33:47 there is no much to lisp but a lisp to it 10:36:38 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-213-211.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:12 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-213-211.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:38:32 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.204.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:00 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 10:43:52 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:45:38 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 10:47:54 -!- zacts is now known as hak 10:48:00 -!- hak is now known as zacts 10:51:23 zacharias 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[~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:11:55 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 11:13:40 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.28.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:07 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:37 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 11:17:34 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:26:52 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:27:01 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: EvW] 11:33:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-37.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:13 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.23.6] has joined #lisp 11:37:52 -!- xani [~user@178.183.154.197.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:41 -!- zipace [~hi@unaffiliated/zipace] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:42:55 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 11:44:05 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-234.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:44:55 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 11:46:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:23 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:47:37 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 11:48:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:50:40 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 11:55:03 ck`` [~ck@dslb-178-004-013-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:28 Guest14094 [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has joined #lisp 11:57:16 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:01:04 guiambros [~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:29 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 12:03:56 Thra11 [~Thra11@87.114.229.9] has joined #lisp 12:04:44 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:05:50 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 12:11:03 KDr2_ [~KDr2@114.243.238.50] has joined #lisp 12:13:28 ij [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has joined #lisp 12:13:51 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 12:14:02 Where can I find information about redefining lisp syntax(i'm using sbcl, if that matters). I want to see how one can do it. 12:14:19 clhs s-m-c 12:14:19 set-macro-character: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_ma.htm 12:14:23 clhs s-d-m-c 12:14:23 set-dispatch-macro-character: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set__1.htm 12:14:24 Redefining in which regard? 12:14:31 clhs defmacro 12:14:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmac.htm 12:16:40 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-234.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:07 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:11 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 12:18:31 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 12:18:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:19:28 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:20:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:22:43 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-147-121.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:23:54 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-234.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:25:16 sie [~root@efw-r10.alise.lv] has joined #lisp 12:25:17 -!- sie [~root@efw-r10.alise.lv] has quit [Changing host] 12:25:17 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has joined #lisp 12:27:34 -!- ij [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:54 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-234.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:31:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:14 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:32:52 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@dhcp140.dmi.ens.fr] has joined #lisp 12:32:52 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@ajscg.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:52 stokachu [~stokachu@ubuntu/member/stokachu] has joined #lisp 12:36:06 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.173.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:37:54 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:40:10 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:31 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:42:08 ejbs [~user@h-138-224.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:43:38 pavelpenev [~quassel@95.87.196.114] has joined #lisp 12:44:21 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 12:44:26 Style question: Why do most lispers that I've seen write - as the name for their accessors? So if I have a class USER and a slot PASSWORD I'd call the accessor USER-PASSWORD... Considering that the accessor is defined as a generic method, isn't this just an awkward form of Systems Hungarian notation? 12:45:06 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:10 that's because you mostly look at the code which does that 12:47:29 -!- asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-tkaijkedsghpwwwr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:48:02 ejbs, i sometimes adopt the convention CLASS.ACCESSOR but I've never seen it anywhere else 12:48:14 of course it is inspired by the notation used in other languages 12:48:32 Also, remember that that's how struct accessors work. 12:48:38 by default 12:48:45 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:56 But generally if the class name is well chosen, it's a reasonable qualifier for the attribute. 12:49:01 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 12:49:12 harish [~harish@119.234.169.222] has joined #lisp 12:49:13 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:49:16 asedeno [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has joined #lisp 12:49:20 Quadrescence: Why not just call the accessor password (look at the example I gave if you're confused)? Zhivago: Ah, right. So it'd just be to make everything consistent? 12:49:22 Consider (password x) vs. (user-password x) 12:49:57 Zhivago: Sure, but who the heck calls their user-variable x? Consider (password user) vs. (user-password user) 12:50:03 Well, I don't know that consistency there is important -- but if people are used to structs ... 12:50:06 user-password breaks with inheritance 12:50:12 ejbs, I personally like to distinguish computation vs. access, even though those concepts can be easily blurred. 12:50:39 (user-password user-password), :) 12:50:41 ejbs: Compare (password x) with (string x). 12:51:11 x is important, because you're dealing with generic methods, and it might well be called something removed from your expectations. 12:51:42 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:52:11 and some people think in terms of protocols, so, PASSWORD is the important bit, the class isn't 12:52:23 When I see (password x), it feels like it should be converting x into a password or generating a password from x. 12:52:36 rszeno, yes, it is annoying and redundant looking in my code when I have (FOO.ACCESSOR FOO) everywhere. 12:52:48 Zhivago: that's a stretch 12:52:52 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:57 And that might be what you want to convey -- but often people want to separate that kind of productive operation from accessive operations. 12:52:58 Zhivago, that is what I was getting at re. computation vs. access. 12:53:27 password is not even a verb! 12:53:41 ... much like string ... 12:53:49 string is a verb 12:54:00 Not that string. 12:54:03 coud be user-password, admin-password, system-password, etc. 12:54:11 And by that reasoning, so is password. 12:54:25 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:54:29 sometimes i find hu.dwim style "password-of" naming useful 12:55:31 this is just useless rhetorics 12:56:26 imo look better, anyway are only names, why to not be clear 12:57:17 why not use (slot-value x 'password) then? if you want to be so clear? 12:57:41 It depends on what you want to be clear about ... 12:57:53 you can make the case for any of the variants, and decide that your reasoning is better 12:58:03 but there's no objective reason for either of them 12:58:06 so, flip a coin 12:58:11 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:17 i'm not against, depend of what you want to recall when you read the code after some time 12:58:18 stassats: Perhaps you would like to embed some special functionality in your accessors? 12:58:30 ejbs: slot-value-using-class to the rescue 12:58:46 Without using metaclasses then... But yeah, I see your point. 12:59:02 again, generic-functions are about protocols (some say) 12:59:19 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-26.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:59:19 so, it's not about objects or slots 12:59:26 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 12:59:48 kanru [~kanru@173.243.46.194] has joined #lisp 12:59:56 if in doubt, use the one with less keystrokes 13:01:55 like pswd-f 13:02:46 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:23 (password-of) actually looks pretty good. 13:03:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:04:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:05:01 you can think of "-of" as implied, and still use PASSWORD, will you be actually confused or just think that it's clear? decide to use password-of/password/class-password for a month each and see how much more code it makes you to produce 13:05:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:05:39 its distinctively accessor-looking and lends itself to use elsewhere as generic fn 13:06:21 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-210-14.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:27 since its the only situation i tend to use "-of" 13:06:56 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 13:07:00 well, of course you think that it's accessor-looking, because you use it 13:07:03 it also focuses your attn on whatever follows "of" 13:07:16 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.169.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07:22 would you spend more time if you were presented with password or class-password? 13:07:50 a preposition lends itself to readability due to resemblance of natural lanmguage 13:08:34 that's just a subjective rationalization, is it actually true? 13:08:57 whereas (person-password person) doesn't have the same kind of visual cue 13:09:16 It's mostly that class-password is quite redundant. And I agree that *-of looks accessor-like 13:09:32 visual cue? how does that even work? does -of wink to you? 13:09:37 or glow in the dark? 13:10:05 it's likely I'd choose user-password in this case because password would seem too general a name 13:10:24 Well, you might consider head-of vs' list-head and person-head -- there you'd probably need list:head-of and person:head-of to distinguish. 13:10:46 because when reading english a prepositional phrase denotes a specific realation 13:10:58 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:09 it's no english 13:11:28 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:45 and english? it's not the best example of logic and unambiguity 13:11:46 whatever i just thought id mention it i could care less 13:11:55 Zhivago: Well, no... Because the full call would be (head-of person) 13:12:10 right 13:12:33 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 13:12:38 why not (head-of-a person)? 13:12:39 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:12:42 stassats: Sure it's not, but is *-of ambigious in any way? 13:12:57 ejbs: i don't know! 13:13:09 i'm just trying to contradict everyone 13:13:43 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.114.229.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:13:45 I can see that; feels a little like you're playing the devil's advocate role here. 13:14:19 i don't use it all the time either but it seemed reasonable to mention as a decent option 13:14:27 ejbs: i'm just not convinced that you can reason your way out in this case 13:14:49 so, class-password, password-of and password all have convincing cases 13:14:55 prepositional-phrase 13:14:59 ejbs: That won't help, because head-of means something fundamentally different for lists and for creatures. 13:15:13 and you can't say that either of them is better, because, how do you measure that? 13:15:14 ejbs: So, they need to be separate generic functions. 13:15:16 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:15:40 ejbs: Which brings you back to some domain qualifier like list- or list: etc. 13:15:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:16:20 hook an EEG to rats or mice and let them read lisp code? see which uses less energy 13:16:22 y just because you use -of doesn't mean the first part of the name shoulddnt be chosen with care 13:16:50 For another example, consider OPEN for DOOR vs FILE. 13:17:01 it also doesn't have anything to do with "hungarian notation" 13:17:24 well, open is a verb, so i expect to do some action 13:17:34 Zhivago: What would you like to call them then+ 13:17:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:18:02 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:06 the predicate convention calls for open-p 13:18:10 some like is-open 13:18:30 well if its a generic function specialized on the argument in question it might make sense to interpret open differently 13:18:33 Zhivago: The parameter used with the generic function implies the difference, btw. 13:18:35 (and some would like openp) 13:18:58 -!- kanru [~kanru@173.243.46.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:19:18 ejbs: no, that's insane 13:19:36 adeht: Why? 13:19:51 ejbs: an answer to Zhivago could be packages.. say doors:open and files:open.. 13:19:58 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 13:20:18 which is essentialy the same as file-open or door-open 13:20:25 adeht: But then, why not simply name it doors-open? Also, I find the open example to be a bad one... open shouldn't be an accessor 13:20:40 ejbs: it's insane to conflate two different semantics into the same gf 13:20:41 i have a generic function "deref" specialized on everything under the sun that behaves wildly differently if invoked on a url, a pathname, a sap-pointer, a list ... 13:20:46 the goal is to recall easy what is the code, finaly 13:21:18 ejbs: because it's not Scheme, but Common Lisp where we have a package system 13:21:35 so, write some code, forget about it for 3 years, come back and see what you more prefer? 13:22:04 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 13:22:31 yes, when even if see pwd i will remember is about password 13:22:50 i thought it's print working directory 13:22:52 ejbs: when I design a protocol I tend to think about the generality of the names in the context of the system I'm writing and a user's view 13:23:10 when i create a new type of thing i usually con sider if there is some intuitive notion of what it would mean to dereference it 13:23:31 or working dir if you want, :) depend of usual convention 13:23:45 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:24:07 if i think too much about such inane things as names, i'm not writing any code, and one's not paid for pretty names! 13:24:17 guaranteed in three years i will still remember how to dereference it 13:24:21 ejbs: if I had a doors system, `open' would be a plausible name for such an operation, although I'd also consider `open-door' if there are other objects, and in that particular case I'd also consider it because we have cl:open and need to live with it 13:24:34 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:25:07 dnolen` [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:27 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 13:26:10 Thra11 [~Thra11@198.32.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:13 also consider short pkg name and a style using it explicitly: tree:root tree:learnt, tree:key tree:value 13:26:44 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:26:51 ejbs: but for functions that would usually serve mere accessors like "get the password field", I tend to follow a - like user-password.. note that it's a bit more nuanced than - because the latter can be silly in the case of inheritance as stassats noted 13:27:00 (and the package :tree is defined with (:use) 13:27:25 kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has joined #lisp 13:27:33 sellout- [~Adium@bband-dyn244.178-41-181.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 13:28:02 thus there is no conflict between door:open and cl:open 13:28:06 one can argue that a subclass of user is still user 13:28:30 stassats: that's what I mean by - 13:29:02 stassats: the user objects may be basic-users or advanced-users or whatever 13:29:27 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7550d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:08 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:31:54 just use sap-ref-* on the heap address of all of your various data-objects and be done with it 13:32:57 fritz` [~user@60.2.93.107] has joined #lisp 13:33:06 problem solved 13:33:12 that's going too far, standard-instance-access should be enough 13:33:22 -!- Guest14094 [~ivan@187.106.36.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:33:25 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 13:36:29 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:00 -!- fritz` [~user@60.2.93.107] has left #lisp 13:37:37 if you were worth your salt all of your data would be '(unsigned-byte 64) vectors in static memory anyway 13:39:01 the only thing i can say for sure is: be consistent, no matter which strategy you choose 13:39:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:41:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:41:14 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:41:48 I'd also add: learn from others.. for example my style is very similar to CLIM's 13:43:01 *stassats* is for less typing, all else being equal 13:43:10 at least, you can quantify that! 13:43:36 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:46:00 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:48:26 ehu [~Erik@109.32.129.167] has joined #lisp 13:48:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:50:30 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 13:51:31 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:54:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:36 scratch that -- for the true professional all of your data would be stack allocated with dynamic extent 13:55:03 stack allocation implies dynamic extent 13:55:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:15 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:56:27 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:57:09 thats what i said 13:58:14 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:58:16 but it was redundant 13:58:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.77] has joined #lisp 13:58:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.8.77] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:58:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:31 oh. well i am so efficient with my data I can afford a little redundancy in conversations 13:59:37 :) 13:59:41 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.32.129.167] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:59:51 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:06 if you were efficient, you wouldn't need a stack, registers would be enough 14:00:28 yes i thin you've got me on that one 14:00:33 :) 14:01:51 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - 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Something about sorting and prioritizing. 14:55:47 it has been sorted and prioritised. 14:55:51 the severity has been determined, the tags are assigned 14:56:07 "someone looked at it" 14:56:15 Oh, alright. Thanks 14:56:17 i see no much difference between confirmed and triaged, though 14:56:22 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-135-72.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:56:35 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-135-72.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:39 confirmed should be when someone tested it and it indeed seems to be a problem 14:57:26 which usually is triaged at the same time, so in reality, it's superficial, at least for sbcl 14:58:22 wishlists items. Stuff I can't confirm because I don't have access to the platform, but seems plausible. 14:58:56 -!- dnolen` [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:59:01 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:25 -!- sie [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:59:58 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:08 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-245.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 15:03:20 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:47 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:06:43 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-135-72.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:08:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:11:19 xecycle [~user@59.78.37.25] has joined #lisp 15:11:19 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:11:23 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:53 -!- ejbs [~user@h-138-224.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:16 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 15:16:22 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:45 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:03 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:18 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:21:03 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:25:26 kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has joined #lisp 15:25:29 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:46 is there a form of let that you can define both variables and functions at once 15:26:03 no 15:27:21 It might be amusing if one were to allow a LET (or LET*) of (FUNCTION whatever) to behave as FLET. 15:27:22 kenanb: metabang-bind might provide that. 15:28:25 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 15:28:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:29:05 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:20 kenanb: http://common-lisp.net/project/metabang-bind/user-guide.html#header3-85 15:29:27 It does. 15:30:02 a questionable improvement 15:30:06 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:30:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:30:56 hmm, interesting library, thanks! but my need for such thing is so minor that it would be overkill to add a seperate library dependency for that purpose. 15:31:54 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-135-72.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:32:53 Guest14094 [~ivan@143.106.196.190] has joined #lisp 15:34:22 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 15:35:14 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 15:35:38 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:10 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:34 Who's the bot here? 15:40:42 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:40:54 <- 15:41:06 <- something? 15:41:21 (:=) 15:41:33 ._. 15:43:52 So, which lisp on CLR/DLR is generally preferred? I don't care if it's CL/Scheme/clj, though I prefer CL personally. 15:44:04 "(:=)" what kind of contraption is that ? 15:45:25 xecycle: generally, none 15:45:49 stassats: Okay then :( 15:48:11 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:17 -!- xecycle [~user@59.78.37.25] has left #lisp 15:51:22 I dunno any CL implementation for .NET (assuming that's what you mean) but check out http://weitz.de/rdnzl/ 15:52:06 why do people like programming ? evolutional adaptation ? is it the same way they like porn, because their ancestors who liked porn had more chances to have kids and increase their population ? 15:53:15 adeht: there is UABCL, but it's... abandoned 15:53:37 elkng: because people like solving problems 15:53:58 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 15:54:12 solving problems is an evolutionary advantage, yes 15:54:22 i like programming because it makes me feel smug and superior to those who can't 15:54:30 miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:49 stassats: for the same reason people do bodybuilding actually 15:54:52 Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has joined #lisp 15:55:04 they "feel smug" and "superior to those who can't" 15:55:31 and they are on the cover of popular magazines also 15:55:38 stassats: Aren't we? :) 15:55:39 what can't be say about programmers 15:55:43 i exercise regularly as well, have to be smug all around! 15:56:50 zorkmoid [2ec2d6d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.194.214.217] has joined #lisp 15:57:25 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58:08 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:32 _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:23 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 16:01:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:06:20 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:07:51 Does anyone have a wave library around? 16:09:03 drichards [~user@c-98-232-26-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:27 do you mean wav files? 16:11:14 yes... 16:11:27 minion: cl-wav-synth 16:11:27 cl-wav-synth: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/cl-wav-synth 16:11:30 zorkmoid: I use sox and read raw bytes. 16:11:51 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 16:12:07 mmm... 16:13:40 nice... cl-wav-synth that is. 16:13:45 sox i don't know what that is.. 16:14:12 is lispbuilder still maintained? 16:14:21 especially the sdl part 16:14:56 zorkmoid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoX (sourceforge is being useless, as usual) 16:14:57 there doesn't seem to be much activity on the project in recent years but that might as well be due to sdl 1.2 version hasn't changed lately 16:15:08 kenanb: according to quicklisp: # 16:15:47 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-xgkrwgvooxsqohml] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:50 pkhuong: mm.. some unixy crap i see... i'd prefer not to use that. native cl is the way to go. 16:17:01 satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:27 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:57 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:15 adeht: http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/source/list "convert comments to utf8" seems to be the only change done since July 2011 16:20:31 -!- drichards [~user@c-98-232-26-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:43 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:19 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-147-121.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 16:21:26 kenanb: so it appears your question is answered 16:21:27 jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has joined #lisp 16:22:00 dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-1-226.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:26 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:23:50 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 16:24:00 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-178-004-013-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:25:34 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:26:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.204.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:27:32 kenanb: what will you use lispbuilder-sdl for? 16:29:24 kenanb: if it helps, a couple of us are working on an SDL2 wrapper 16:32:34 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:32:47 aftershave [~textual@h-123-171-229.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:32:54 adeht: kind of. but I wonder if it is not active because lispbuilder is nearly complete as it is or if it is not quite yet. 16:32:58 I wonder about tagbody 16:33:12 can you jump to tagbodies that are nested? 16:33:21 -!- zorkmoid [2ec2d6d9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.194.214.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:33:48 you can, you know, read the clhs entry on tagbody 16:33:51 clhs tagbody 16:33:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_tagbod.htm 16:34:10 well tagbody is then done at runtime? 16:34:25 no, it's lexical 16:35:01 and clhs contains the direct answer: "It is permissible for go to jump to a tagbody that is not the innermost tagbody containing that go" 16:35:12 what about closures? 16:35:18 can you return closure with the go? 16:35:28 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:35 what makes you even ask that question? 16:35:47 go doesn't return anything, it just jumps 16:36:03 (tagbody xxx (lambda () (go xxx)) 16:36:20 it's lexical and has dynamic extent, so, no, you can't do that 16:36:51 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:36:55 alright 16:37:03 so I can just compile them to some jump op 16:37:54 it's a non-local exit, you also need to call any clean up forms 16:38:08 something like this: http://pastebin.com/8bd7xcnE 16:39:09 what is that? 16:39:35 the output from my compiler 16:39:37 and (go lost) is invalid 16:39:48 the thing is that in real lisp, this does not work... as I thought 16:40:02 yeah, why is it invalid? 16:40:11 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-193-175.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:15 because tagbody is dynamic-extent 16:40:26 you know, if you read that clhs page, you would have less questions 16:40:28 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d122237.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 and (tagbody (let ((*special-variable* value)) ... (go exit) ...) exit), that GO jump would need to make sure that the variable is rebound to the previous value 16:42:10 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:44 Denommus: I am working on a game, kind of like games that you burst bubbles by switching them, trying to collect 3 same color bubbles vertically or horizontally. 16:44:31 oGMo: it would be great to check out. thanks! is there a page or source of project somewhere? 16:44:52 in general, any clean up would need to be prematurely executed: stack unwound, unwind-protect forms executed, etc. 16:45:02 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:45:22 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:26 I suppose opcode before the JUMP one could do that 16:45:29 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:29 btw I would love to know if there are good alternatives to lispbuilder-sdl for such 2d project 16:45:41 kenanb: use ecl, bind yourself a lib 16:45:59 kenanb: commonqt 16:46:11 thats what I did for ludum dare : http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/2012/12/14/are-you-bad-enough-dude-to-use-lisp/ 16:47:56 kenanb: https://github.com/lispgames/cl-sdl2 .. also #lispgames if that's your goal/focus/etc 16:48:05 or even if it's not heh 16:50:31 -!- Guest14094 [~ivan@143.106.196.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:40 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going to play Deus Ex: HR] 16:52:23 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d122237.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:53:24 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 16:53:57 vanjulio [c6970804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.8.4] has joined #lisp 16:57:48 -!- jaaso [~user@109.175.27.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:51 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-193-175.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:06 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 17:00:11 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183236218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:12 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:26 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:42 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:44 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:37 -!- Alaa [~alaa@92.96.49.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:39 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:16:06 -!- sellout- [~Adium@bband-dyn244.178-41-181.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:20:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:24:50 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:32 sie [~root@91.105.17.136] has joined #lisp 17:26:32 -!- sie [~root@91.105.17.136] has quit [Changing host] 17:26:32 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has joined #lisp 17:27:50 -!- ThePhoer1n is now known as ThePhoeron 17:29:40 -!- sie [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:31:04 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:43 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:53 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:56 -!- _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:39:34 -!- kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:52 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 17:45:01 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-118.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:17 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 17:45:45 gvz [~garvezys@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 17:48:58 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 17:50:15 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 17:50:49 -!- luzie [~lucy@229.134.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: luzie] 17:51:24 Hi! I'm trying to use a couple of functions from UIOP, so I installed UIOP-2.33 via Quicklisp. However, it seems like some of the exported symbols conflict with those from ~/quicklisp/asdf.lisp (which is v2.26). Should I not install UIOP separately and just use the version that comes with Quicklisp? 17:52:47 tigranes: how do you observe the conflict? 17:53:17 In particular, UIOP-2.33:DIRECTORY-EXISTS-P is trying to call PROBE-FILE*, which is taken from ASDF-2.26 17:53:38 And PROBE-FILE* in UIOP-2.33 has :truename keyword, but UIOP-2.26 doesn't. 17:53:46 If that makes sense :\ 17:54:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:21 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-135-51.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:07 (And by "conflict" I meant that there are conflicting definitions that cause errors, not a "formal" symbol confict.) 17:55:55 gotcha. 17:55:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:56:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:59:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-89-182.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:00:03 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:49 <_schulte_> I read that there's a way for buildapp to use quicklisp's index of systems, but I don't see any pointers as to how. can anyone provide such a pointer? 18:01:54 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:08 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:13 _schulte_: there is an example in the buildapp manual 18:04:14 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:27 xach.com/lisp/buildapp has the manual 18:06:07 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-213-211.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:41 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-213-211.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 <_schulte_> Xach: thanks, I'm probably missing something obvious, but all the examples on that page use the --asdf-path and --load-system flags, I was expecting quicklisp integration to use the manifest-file option 18:08:17 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:10:55 Hmm, that's true. I thought I had a specific example of that. Sorry. 18:11:09 <_schulte_> oh, looks like what I need is to use the ql:write-asdf-manifest-file function with that flag 18:11:17 yes, that's the way. 18:11:28 <_schulte_> seems straightforward, thanks 18:12:44 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@188.168.242.178] has joined #lisp 18:14:11 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:18:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:19:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:20:49 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 18:21:54 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-173-116.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 18:25:13 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:56 jute [~Thunderbi@31.212.107.98] has joined #lisp 18:26:29 -!- vanjulio [c6970804@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.8.4] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:26:48 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:13 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@216.239.33.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:27:31 asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-ecodotthpsavzxph] has joined #lisp 18:31:16 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:32:15 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:33:36 sondr3 [~sondr3@58.186.216.153] has joined #lisp 18:33:40 -!- sondr3 [~sondr3@58.186.216.153] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:34:33 sondr3 [~sondr3@58.186.216.153] has joined #lisp 18:34:35 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:35:15 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.21.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 18:35:37 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:21 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-64-87.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:38 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-13-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:39:05 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:39:26 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:17 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:40:23 davazp [~user@92.251.237.112.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 18:40:39 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:44:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:47:00 sellout- [~Adium@pat-ip-195-91-110-117.flarion.as5628.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 18:48:06 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:25 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 18:48:49 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:51:59 Lis [~Lis@p3E9E9598.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:56:17 hello everyone. I am new to lisp. I use ccl svn and wand to add custom directories to the asdf search directory. Currently i try this: http://paste.lisp.org/+2XUK but get :directory is a undefined function 18:56:36 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:57:01 Lis: where is that code? 18:57:21 Lis: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Configuring-ASDF.html#Configuring-ASDF 18:57:38 Lis: you're trying to evaluate it. ASDF configuration should be written in a file that's not evaluated. 18:57:48 Lis: also, just use quicklisp 18:57:58 Lis: it should go in ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ 18:58:11 don't bother. Use quicklisp. 18:58:15 *jasom* isn't sure what the windows equivalent is if your not on mac/bsd/linux 18:58:20 but yes, use quicklisp 18:58:33 Ok. And how can I define search directories in my programm? 18:58:36 if you ever need non-quicklisp projects to be found by asdf at that point, put them in ~/quicklisp/local-projects. No extra config. 18:58:47 Lis: http://quicklisp.org like so 18:58:59 trust me on this for 5 minutes <3 18:59:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:59:22 Anyways, quicklisp uses asdf for you in the background :-) 18:59:29 ^ 18:59:35 sykopomp, thanks but that wasn my question 18:59:38 sondr3_ [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:4d94:47fa] has joined #lisp 18:59:49 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.237.112.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:07 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 19:00:17 Lis: Well, you *got* both the answer to your question *and* friendly advice to use Quicklisp for loading libraries (both provided by quicklisp and from elsewhere). 19:00:20 Well, as jasom said, the answer would be to read the asdf manual closely. 19:00:41 -!- sondr3_ [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:4d94:47fa] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:01:04 Lis: you define search directories for your lisp image, not specifically for your program. 19:01:06 Lis: the config answer was already given, but I'm trying to point you at a better overall solution that will involve less effort. quicklisp is the standard way of fetching libraries. 19:01:37 felideon, Ok. And how can I define search directories in my programm? 19:02:04 Lis: as I just said: you don't. 19:02:08 Pushing them on asdf:*central-registry* That's written in the asdf manual. 19:02:19 well you could that :) 19:02:25 But what you do is to just put your directories or symlinks to them in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/. 19:02:34 pjb: it's 2013. I'd like to think we're past that nonsense by now. 19:04:10 *stassats* shakes his clock 19:04:38 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 19:05:31 sondr3_ [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:4d94:47fa] has joined #lisp 19:09:05 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-102-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:09:45 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:06 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 19:10:24 -!- sondr3_ [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:4d94:47fa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:37 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dd00.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:40 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:30 holycow [~start@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has joined #lisp 19:13:35 hi guys 19:13:41 sondr3_ [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:b74b:4658] has joined #lisp 19:14:39 what tools are available to me via emacs/slime to explore functions available for me to play with when I load up a certain package? 19:15:14 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:15:23 -!- sondr3_ [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:b74b:4658] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:05 holycow: I tend to M-. package: TAB TAB (: 19:16:12 gives you a list of exported things (: 19:20:13 aha! 19:20:14 danke 19:21:19 also, inspect (find-package :that-package) 19:21:24 for more interesting things about it (: 19:21:35 coolness! 19:22:15 (C-c i for slime-inspect) (: 19:23:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:16 nice. i appreciate that. 19:24:06 it's C-c I 19:24:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:25:02 hiato [~hiato@41-133-0-51.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:26:26 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:26:55 package:M-TAB does the trick, too. 19:27:21 or C-/ or whatever people use for completion when they use weird window managers 19:27:42 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:05 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:29:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:33 BZaidan [~GreenLant@41.254.1.117] has joined #lisp 19:31:08 added to notes, thanks! 19:31:13 good afternoon. 19:31:16 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:33:57 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-229-255.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:34:02 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-229-255.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:10 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-229-255.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:36:51 -!- gvz [~garvezys@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:42 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:38:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:40:32 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@87.109.38.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:41:57 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@31.212.107.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:42:45 sondr3_ [~sondr3@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:247:55:4d94:47fa] has joined #lisp 19:44:33 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:34 -!- holycow [~start@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:58 -!- BZaidan is now known as BZaidan|Away 19:45:55 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183236218.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:46:00 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:48:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:49:15 user__ [~user@14-202-8-87.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 19:49:26 Hey 19:49:32 anybody knows the timetable of eclm2013? 19:49:39 The download link for motivz is down, does anyone know of another? 19:50:48 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:50:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-177-174.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:51:40 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-229-255.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:51:59 abeaumont: it is on june 2! 19:52:28 that is all i know :( 19:52:35 ok 19:52:57 it'll probably be whole day, right? 19:53:01 yes 19:53:06 ok, thanx 19:53:34 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-52-212-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:36 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-106-208.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:53:55 how do i return the current package name as a string? 19:54:04 (package-name *package*) is one way 19:54:09 k thanks 19:54:11 Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@87.109.44.213] has joined #lisp 19:55:32 -!- ckoch786 [~ckoch@98.103.82.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:57 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@c192050.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:09 Hey guys 20:01:17 -!- sondr3 [~sondr3@58.186.216.153] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client] 20:01:19 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 20:04:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:09:04 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:17 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:44 -!- jtza8 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timeout: 264 seconds] 21:51:02 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-222.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:05 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:24 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:43 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 21:51:57 baibu [~jgrklhjfd@201-78-91-39.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:53:35 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:54:38 *maxm--* had pushed new Log4CL to https://github.com/7max/log4cl master 21:54:47 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:55:07 All the slime integration goodies are in and such, readme file on above page with screenshots and stuff 21:55:14 would appreciate feedback 21:55:19 where are tags? 21:55:46 -!- baibu [~jgrklhjfd@201-78-91-39.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: ((QuIT)usuario(QuIT)Q(QuIT)usuario(QuIT)u,] 21:56:06 asking me? its development version.. Guess I can tag it with version number 21:56:16 ok 21:56:25 but there are no tags for previous versions either! 21:56:31 baibu [~jgrklhjfd@201-78-91-39.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:57:17 *maxm--* is not a big fan of tags, I usually just use branches 21:58:13 actually I have some, http://i.imgur.com/5OHkDB2.png, but for some reason it does not show up in github, i'm probably misunderstanding what "git tag whatever" does, or need some kind of global tags 21:58:13 21:58:22 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:58:58 git push --tags 21:59:14 thanks, did it 21:59:55 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:13 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-52-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:00:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7550d4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:00:54 nha [~prefect@89.204.138.89] has joined #lisp 22:02:50 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 22:03:06 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:43 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:04:55 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@87.109.44.213] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-rc2] 22:05:05 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 22:05:25 -!- pierpa [~user@95.236.59.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:05:30 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:38 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:08:09 -!- Guest14094 [~ivan@143.106.196.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:08:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:39 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:01 -!- kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:16:39 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:46 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-64-87.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:18:12 -!- nha [~prefect@89.204.138.89] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 22:18:13 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:19:56 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:13 -!- janiczek [~Adium@51.40.broadband11.iol.cz] has left #lisp 22:20:19 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:20 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:22:37 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:35 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:24:51 nilsi_ [~nilsi@host-95-199-198-225.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:05 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:06 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-213-211.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:29:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:01 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 22:34:00 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:36:40 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 22:36:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:37:23 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:59 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-193-175.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:03 -!- maxm-- is now known as maxm 22:39:45 -!- zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:40:33 stassats - are you online? 22:40:43 i don't know, you tell me! 22:40:48 yippee 22:41:03 So I ran that test you suggested wrt FORMAT. 22:41:47 The (macroexpand '(formatter "~{ ~A~}")) code that I generate is identical to that generated by ECL. 22:41:56 I'll put it up on pastebin 22:42:00 so, is your loop broken? 22:42:05 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-34-67.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:42:24 the simple version, that is 22:42:30 http://pastebin.com/SUd7vLFK 22:42:36 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:46 Could be that loop is broken. 22:43:06 and i know that it matches 22:43:07 But everything else works so well (CLOS) and loop is used everywhere. 22:43:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-228.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43:17 i was pointing out to look at the code it generates 22:43:57 stassats: What do you mean? expand the loop macro? 22:44:11 no, the formatter result 22:44:31 maybe your tagbody is badly compiled 22:45:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:45:33 I'll put together a smaller test case that checks what the loop macro does to a list of arguments in ARGS 22:46:40 What is the (EXPANDER-NEXT-ARG "~{ ~A~}" 4) doing? 22:46:50 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:46:56 it's a macro 22:47:34 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:38 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:41 I just checked - yes, it's a macro that pops args 22:47:49 try http://paste.lisp.org/display/137186 22:47:58 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:00 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:48:13 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-34-67.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:48:42 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:49:57 -!- thatJasonSmith [~vader@ip68-102-56-198.ks.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: thatJasonSmith] 22:51:31 Bike [~Glossina@c-24-21-88-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:43 don't leave me hanging! 22:52:39 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.105.35] has joined #lisp 22:52:54 Sorry, I was testing the loop. 22:53:04 silkwood [a46f81e8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.164.111.129.232] has joined #lisp 22:53:20 Curious - this works: (defparameter *a* '(1 2 3 4)) (loop (when (null *a*) (return)) (print (if *a* (pop *a*)))) --> 1 2 3 4 22:54:07 And that was compiled in the repl and then the compiled code evaluated 22:54:13 Give me a second to test yours. 22:54:42 can anyone tell my why progn is not doing things in the order that i list them? 22:54:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137187 22:55:04 silkwood: it does do 22:55:10 possibly output buffering? 22:55:18 progn executes in a random order 22:55:19 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@70.42.157.30] has joined #lisp 22:55:32 don't confuse noobs. 22:55:32 j`ey: just like you're saying random things? 22:55:32 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.21.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:37 stassats: no 22:55:58 bitonic [~user@151.225.21.97] has joined #lisp 22:56:01 so, saying random things without being aware of that? 22:56:04 so how should i be doing that? 22:56:36 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:56:46 (princ "Please enter a state") (finish-output) (read-line) 22:56:50 silkwood: maybe you can explain the expected output vs the actual output 22:57:25 I want it to ask the user to enter a state... then allow the user to enter a state 22:57:37 that's what it does here 22:57:38 and then ask the user to enter a city 22:57:45 but if it doesn't, go with stassats's 22:58:05 -!- dwts [pid@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-xpktnicgvzicfhhh] has left #lisp 22:58:09 it doesn't, output is line buffered, and print prints a newline first 22:58:23 stassats: I had to comment out the write-string and change princ to print and then the output is A B C D 22:58:44 drmeister: you had to? 22:59:07 (finish-output worked 22:59:11 thanks 22:59:16 silkwood: another thing that you're doing wrong is using symbols 22:59:31 Either my WRITE-STRING or PRINC demanded a non-nil stream - I'm still working on it. 23:00:53 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.21.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:00:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D88.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:05 and what is (subseq weather-string 0 (length weather-string)) supposed to do? 23:01:39 i get 404s for anything i try, anyway 23:02:53 it's "ca" "san_diego" 23:04:18 stassats: I need to run to a social engagement - when I get back I'll do more testing with the FORMATTER macro and see what is being passed to the code returned by the FORMATTER macro. I'm 99.9(several dozen nines)% sure that tagbody/go work perfectly and only slightly less sure that LOOP works perfectly. Too much depends on those facilities. 23:04:24 its getting the string out of all of the http data 23:04:34 theres probably a better way of doing it 23:04:48 it doesn't do anything 23:05:14 stassats: Thanks for the tip on the FORMATTER macro - that was the first insight that I have had on how FORMAT works. 23:05:37 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:05:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:54 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-193-175.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:37 silkwood: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137187#1 23:06:45 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:14 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:07:17 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:07:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:07:43 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@c192050.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:50 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@c192050.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 23:08:17 -!- joe9_ [~user@c-71-236-20-61.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:34 silkwood: and the data is bogus, do you know that? 23:08:55 the last forecast for san diego is from 2011 23:08:59 what data? from the site we are using? 23:09:19 oh 23:09:29 well we were just doing this as practice 23:09:32 so it doesnt matter 23:09:41 and does california really have only five cities? 23:10:15 i dont know 23:10:18 ive never been 23:10:19 -!- Re-L [~Arttt@115-241-203-46.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 23:10:24 :P 23:11:00 i reckon it's at least 7, what with san francisco and la 23:11:45 stassats: your version is better but it doesnt work when the capitalization is off 23:12:06 warren` [~user@S0106c8d719ab8a5b.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:24 is (string-downcase) wat we want? 23:12:31 what* 23:12:41 ~(~a/~a~).txt 23:12:45 change that part 23:14:11 you can also do (substitute #\_ #\space city) 23:15:10 thanks 23:15:22 now, did i just do your homework? 23:15:37 no. we are learning for fun :P 23:15:37 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:48 thats an old perl problem i had done before 23:15:50 are you talking about yourself in plural? 23:16:03 yes... 23:16:25 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-13-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:18 i use https://github.com/stassats/wunderground to get actual weather 23:18:15 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 23:19:04 interesting 23:21:09 -!- warren` [~user@S0106c8d719ab8a5b.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: home time] 23:22:18 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@70.42.157.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:08 miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:45 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@198.32.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:34:50 alpha123 [~peter@71-218-191-135.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:36:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:37:54 bel3atar [~bel3atar_@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 23:38:16 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@95.87.196.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:57 -!- miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:42:53 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:17 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:59 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@c192050.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:48:16 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-229-255.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:52:23 ASau` [~user@p4FF96377.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:53:52 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EB81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:55:54 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-173-116.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:58:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-167.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp