00:01:11 -!- miql [~miql@ip24-56-50-178.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 00:01:55 I was gonna ask if you meant "wookiee", but it looks like that's how it really is being spelled 00:02:53 satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.59] has joined #lisp 00:03:53 -!- bitonic [~user@176.27.229.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:04:08 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 00:04:35 -!- agumonkey [~agu@126.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05:44 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 00:05:49 I feel like all the time I spent on lisp has made it impossible for me to be pythonic now 00:06:11 Dalek_Baldwin: at least you got python 00:07:11 yeah, basically I'm using all the evil features they threw in but tell you never to use so I can make python more lispy 00:07:41 I'm surprised macropy got such a positive reception 00:07:50 *p_l* uses Java 1.6 at dayjob 00:11:18 -!- ryankarason [~rak@cpe-76-189-227-224.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:35 *jasom* uses C 00:13:47 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:14:14 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:14:19 -!- fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:16:45 I talked with a nice fellow last week who updated a C-in-sexp application to be asdf-loadable, he used it for some development that had to happen quickly and he said it worked nicely. 00:17:29 *jasom* made cffi bindings for libtcc 00:17:30 https://github.com/JonathanSmith/sc-language 00:17:42 fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:17:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-181-238.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:51 http://super.para.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~tasuku/sc/index.html has some interesting stuff 00:20:20 nice! 00:20:41 ok, I need to fall asleep 00:20:59 I'm a day behind on some code that I need to finish today :/ 00:21:09 sleep will be better than keeping up 00:21:15 huh, so it's c -> sc -> apply transforms -> c 00:21:44 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:22:14 I believe he used it to write in straight sc to generate a C program, but I didn't get the exact picture. 00:22:27 *jasom* was referring to tascell 00:22:31 "he" being Jonathan Smith 00:23:01 I mentioned scexp to him, but sc looks much more interesting. 00:23:29 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 00:23:50 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:05 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 00:25:09 seems to be a source to source translator 00:25:18 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:25:28 s-exp to c 00:25:31 rszeno: and c to s-exp 00:25:50 rszeno: so you can apply macros to existing C code (and include C headers in your s-exp stuff) 00:25:55 probably, i didn't saw that part yet, :) 00:26:40 i just clone the git to read it 00:26:43 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 00:28:12 i seen a WAM somewhere or i'm wrong? 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ie: I want to define an object I call an "interval" and a valid object of this type must satisfy (> (interval-end i) (interval-start i)) 01:43:29 j_king: initialize-instance or shared-initialize auxiliary methods are one option 01:44:52 Xach: cheers. though the thought just occured that maybe I can use DEFTYPE and... 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timeout: 248 seconds] 03:23:46 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 03:26:06 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:28:29 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 03:31:18 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: i will be back...nvm] 03:31:42 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.67.140] has joined #lisp 03:31:48 -!- d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:33:43 -!- ckoch786__ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:34:20 _malicious [~malicious@pool-71-99-49-190.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:18 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:12 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 03:39:20 Does using threads impact portability? This chart seems to imply that the most used thread library doesn't support Windows (very well)? Am I reading it incorrectly? http://common-lisp.net/project/bordeaux-threads/ 03:40:00 In that CL doesn't support threads, yes. 03:40:12 So, it's more a question of what do you want to be portable to? 03:40:20 -!- cyphase_ is now known as cyphase 03:40:32 -!- miah [~miah@jobsville.chia-pet.org] has quit [Quit: Derpops!] 03:41:39 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:41:41 Well, I think the issue is that anything I'd be interested in implementing (well, just for the learning experience, really, probably not going to be used by anyone else) really afaik would work out better in threads. 03:42:14 e.g. different files in a text editor, or different sites ("tabs", I guess?) in a web browser. 03:42:45 It's a common misconception. :) 03:43:04 But I'd suggest picking an implementation first, and then seeing what threading systems are available. 03:43:15 And then a little abstraction can go a long way. 03:43:22 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:23 Well, I guess my assumption was that if anything is a sort of "parallel" task it would be best done through threading? e.g. many CPUs, including mine, have 4 cores, so would benefit? 03:45:21 Well, it depends, but you might find that multiple processes are simpler and can scale beyond a single machine. 03:45:31 ah. 03:45:54 I'm not really a fan of threading due to needing to deal with all of the contention and the scaling limits of shared memory -- but ymmv. 03:47:43 aeth: there is a parallel programming library called lparallel which you might be interested in. 03:47:48 Another thing I was looking into exploring was client/server (emacs has something like this now, I think). e.g. most in-terminal IRC clients currently run the very hackish way of putting it in screen or tmux instead of fully separating the thing we want to persist from the UI. 03:48:18 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:48:30 aeth: there is also 0MQ (ZeroMQ) for message passing (C lib, has CL wrapper) 03:49:58 Probably one thing I'd want to play around with is implementing my own IRC client (I currently use irssi even though I'm very much in the Lisp world these days. I never really like the experience of running lots of unrelated things like IRC in emacs.) Although in IRC, the only parallelish thing would probably be running multiple clients, I guess? e.g. run your bot and your regular account through the same client that's scripted the same way 03:51:04 aeth: did you know that XChat can be scripted using Lisp? 03:51:41 I've used lparallel. It's overdoing some things, but looks like it's working 03:52:02 DataLinkDroid: I don't mean to say that I have any reason for people to use these ideas over what they're currently using. They probably shouldn't. I'm just coming up with well-defined applications to experiment around with. Obviously IRC clients are something that there are a million and one of. 03:52:27 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:52:32 One advantage of working on such solved problems is that almost every language already has IRC libraries that could abstract things a bit (it looks like there's one in Quicklisp too) 03:53:02 aeth: i was just pointing out a fact in case you didn't know it 03:53:07 zacts [~blueberry@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 03:53:10 I don't think an irc client needs multiple threads, unless the underlaying OS has issues with multi-descriptor polling+I/O, or unless it'll be a bot answering complex math questions 03:53:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:53:49 Someone else pointed out another IRC client that was Lisp scriptable when I brought this up in another channel. weechat? I'd be more likely to use that because I am quite content to use IRC in a terminal. 03:54:06 Well, CL also doesn't support non-blocking i/o in general. :) 03:54:13 The point isn't to work at the level of scripting, it's to work a bit lower than that. It's a project to learn. Often, the only thing you learn with scripting something is an application's API :P 03:54:18 Genera asks me to grow the stack several times before it runs asdf satisfactorily. Scary. 03:54:33 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 03:54:39 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:55:17 there's no problem with non-blocking I/O with some FFI to BSD sockets layer, which I agree becomes an extra dependency, but CL doesn't really support TCP either :) 03:55:31 phadthai: well, the idea would be to separate the client backend from the frontend, and I would use the backend for IRC bot experimentation. 03:56:34 The bot would probably need multiple threads for non-trivial math, afaik. Of course, non-trivial math might be limited in usefulness because of having to display output in the line format of IRC. 03:56:40 OK, time to release ASDF 3.0.0 03:57:24 do any of the CL threading libraries allow for os threads and coroutines and the mapping/scheduling of the latter to the former? 03:57:25 whoa 03:58:29 Well, given threads and message queues you can implement coroutines. 03:58:46 Although I don't know what an os coroutine is supposed to be. 03:59:10 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 04:00:33 Zhivago: it has lotsa names, user threads, coroutines, fibers, but just swapping register files so you can change threads without a syscall 04:00:55 aeth: hmm about implementations (unrelated to your coroutine question), I think that SBCL now also supports threads on windows, ECL also does 04:01:03 So ... without involving the os. :) 04:01:07 can anyone fimiliar with "Lisp in the Box" tell me how to stop an infinite loop... 04:01:14 without closing the program 04:01:37 er, as in the "program" i mean the IDE 04:01:37 nug: Interrupt it with a signal? ^C? 04:01:40 phadthai: yes, my main issue with Googling multiple variations of thread-related queries for common lisp is that most of the information was years out of date. 04:01:42 Zhivago: right, windows processes these days allow for fibers which are mapped to threads which are affinity bound to processors, giving you a pretty fine grain control over mapping logical parallelism to physical parallelism 04:02:05 Yes, just ... os coroutines without os support. 04:02:17 CCL does threads on Windows, and is production quality (so they say -- I've had no problems) 04:03:45 -!- axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:06:47 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:10 nug700_, see man pkill 04:07:28 hm? 04:08:36 what os? linux? 04:09:06 windows 7. 04:09:13 i already solved it. 04:09:42 fine, sorry for assmption, and forget pkill, :) 04:09:51 what is pkill? 04:10:07 a program 04:10:22 I solved it by closing emacs... what would be a better way to stop the loop from executing? 04:10:30 C-c C-c 04:10:40 or C-g 04:11:23 isn't C-c C-c the command to compile a function. 04:11:48 -!- vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:12:04 depend of what mode is in use 04:12:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.67.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:12:11 ah 04:12:16 nug700_: C-c C-c in the REPL passes through the C-c (i.e. Ctrl+C) in some contexts, such as eshell 04:12:22 and I guess also slime? 04:12:27 ye 04:13:05 this channel used to be 500 no? 04:13:46 I found a webpage that took closure-html forever to parse it. Is there any way to stop function execution, say after running for 30 sec without return? 04:14:40 d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has joined #lisp 04:14:54 I'm only planning to us this setup (Slime + emacs) until I'm done with the tutorial, as I cannot stand emacs.. mainly because I cannot use ctrl + C to copy and ctrl + v to paste. What is a good alternative for windows? 04:15:27 freebsd or linux, :) 04:15:41 sorry, was a joke 04:16:06 nug700_: cua mode. 04:16:24 I would install linux, but unity3d editor doesn't have a linux build. 04:17:01 nug700_, see emacs tutorial, is easy to learn to copy and paste and work well on windows, i guess 04:18:38 it take only few minutes to understand how it work 04:18:43 I looked through the tutorial, or at least the one that comes with emacs. It didn't tell me how to. The only info it actually gave was info on how to navigate emacs. 04:18:55 -!- _malicious [~malicious@pool-71-99-49-190.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:19:17 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:19:18 C-h t 04:19:27 try C-h t 04:19:30 that is the tutorial i am refering to 04:19:54 ok, :) 04:19:57 nug700_: "killing" definitely makes a lot more sense than "copying" if you are comfortable with keyboard navigation. I find copying and pasting a lot less elegant, at least if I only have a keyboard. 04:20:41 why copy when you can just do this? C-a C-u # C-k C-/ 04:20:49 it's really not as bad as it looks :-) 04:21:33 idk.. just don't really like the feel of emacs. 04:22:24 is the any LISP IDE that doesn't use emacs? 04:22:40 xuser_ [xuser@unaffiliated/xuser] has joined #lisp 04:22:47 is a normal feeling when you use it first time but everything is very logical and later you will can work without it 04:23:03 s/can/can't/ 04:23:18 nug700_: apparently, vim also has good Lisp support. you might not like that either, though. 04:23:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:23:43 hm 04:23:47 nug700_: there are half-working extensions for vim and eclipse. Commercial IDEs are emacs-inspired. 04:24:21 plus emacs is not a ide is a full enviroment 04:24:24 nug700_: Take a look at evil-mode. 04:24:29 (and get over it) 04:25:03 what is evil-mode? 04:25:28 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 04:25:30 vim features implemented on top of emacs. 04:26:16 most things you'd be used to from vim are there (with extensible text objects), it just happens to run inside emacs (and give you access to all the built-in emacs stuff, too) 04:26:41 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:26:44 how do i activate it? 04:27:01 nug700_, you are familiar with vi? 04:27:15 sykopomp: looking for C-c C-v copy/paste makes me think cua mode is more of a solution. 04:27:31 yea just found that pkhuong 04:27:40 oh sorry, I didn't read enough. I saw a bunch of mentions of vi stuff 04:27:54 nug700_: fwiw, if you're still looking for vi-ish stuff. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil 04:28:04 *sykopomp* uses evil-mode every day now and is comfortable recommending it. 04:28:29 *erikc* uses evil-mode and never bothered to learn how to use the 'real' emacs key bindings 04:29:02 I've been an emacs user for ~5 years now. I think the built-in bindings are great. I just felt like trying something new. 04:29:18 *phadthai* adds it to his to-try list 04:29:24 if need vi then i use vi(m) not emacs, :) 04:29:30 I only use emacs for lisp, vim for most of my other coding 04:29:49 rszeno: but slime is very useful 04:29:51 i use vi sometimes too 04:29:58 sure 04:30:04 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 04:31:12 what does "vi(m)" stand for... 04:31:22 i had problems few times with big files, over 2G, only with vim i can solve it 04:31:38 the original vi name was for "visual" :) 04:31:52 vim == vi improved 04:32:14 unfortunately, the lisp support in ed isn't very good, since ed edits by lines, but lisp is s-expression based. so I wouldn't recommend using ed for lisp. 04:32:15 are few vi, vim, ... 04:32:23 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.139.227] has joined #lisp 04:32:55 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 04:33:14 some issues I'd probably come across using ed for lisp would be proper indentation and navigation of s-expressions. 04:34:43 well, I found out how to use copy/paste via C-c and C-v, so my expirience with emacs should be a great deal more bearable. 04:35:17 sbcl has a repl? 04:35:19 yes, I used that for a while. I found the best way to learn emacs was just to look up and incorporate something new every week or month. 04:35:43 cheatsheets are tried and true. 04:35:48 nug700_, remember C-h i will go to info 04:35:52 emacs also has a nice tutorial 04:36:09 also.. is there a way to adjust the tab key in emacs to indent 2 spaces? 04:36:38 indent-tabs-mode: nil; tab-width: 2; 04:36:49 does it do that stupid tab+spaces thing in Lisp too? 04:38:10 (setq indent-tabs-mode nil) 04:38:20 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:20 I think indent-tabs-mode nil is all you really need to have lisp source indentation be sane. 04:38:40 DataLinkDroid: that might be the most common thing in .emacs files, if someone did an analysis. just a guess. 04:38:43 how do i activate that mode. 04:38:45 indentation in CL is fairly standardish (and varies by context) 04:38:48 want 2 spaces too 04:38:56 nug700_: put (setq indent-tabs-mode nil) in your .emacs 04:39:14 this will make it global 04:39:22 who wants tabs anyway 04:39:40 sykopomp: apparently the guys who set the defaults in emacs (-: 04:39:42 is better to add as first line, imo 04:40:07 aeth: the default emacs settings are the ones preferred by rms I hear. 04:40:08 -!- ehu` [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:15 where is this ".emacs" located 04:40:21 nug700_: depends on your OS 04:40:27 windows 7 04:40:29 rms has been a tabs lover since way back 04:41:26 nug: dired ~ 04:41:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:41:50 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 04:42:47 hm? 04:43:00 nug700_, write at the top of the file ';;; -*- indent-tabs-mode: nil; tab-width: 2; -*- 04:43:06 and you are done 04:43:18 nug700_: you can use dired mode to find where your HOME directory is according to emacs 04:43:39 M-X dired ~ 04:44:14 yo may need do erase the suggested directory first 04:44:42 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 04:44:51 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 04:45:25 -!- pawel` [~user@c-68-63-164-229.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:45:35 DataLinkDroid: that leads to my appdata/roaming folder. 04:47:33 okay. you could try setting HOME environment variable in control panel 04:47:34 if you want a different place 04:47:34 mine is C:/Users/myname 04:48:41 rszeno: write that at the top of which file? 04:48:42 the current file you edit 04:48:42 in each file you need because is local defined 04:49:04 could be different if you want other settings 04:49:39 and close the file and reopen 04:50:41 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-114-117.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:51:36 i placed ;;; -*- indent-tabs-mode: nil; tab-width: 2; -*- at the top of the file, saved, closed, and reopend, but it still indents 4 spaces instead of 2 04:52:36 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 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[~kanru@173.243.46.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:13:00 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.66.218] has joined #lisp 05:15:23 -!- KDr2_ [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:17:34 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:52 -!- Fare changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.18, ELS'13 Registration Open, SBCL 1.1.7, CL-PPCRE 2.0.4, DRAKMA 1.3.2, CFFI 0.11.1, ASDF 3.0.0 05:18:05 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-oljuclkgoslkyjpy] has joined #lisp 05:19:00 -!- neena_ is now known as neena 05:21:38 I'm noticing the tutorials I'm finding don't really go in-depth on how to define and minipulate individual variables inside functions... 05:21:51 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 05:21:59 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:22:31 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.154.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:22:34 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-oljuclkgoslkyjpy] has quit [Client Quit] 05:23:52 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:24:54 I'm also having trouble with (format t x), where x is a number, and format takes a String. how would i convert. 05:25:28 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 05:25:32 (format t "~A" x) 05:25:33 a format string 05:25:46 nug700_: perhaps because in general new lexically scoped bindings are used, but setf can be used on dynamically scoped variables (special variables) as well, just that it's often not the cleanest solution... as for lexically scoped variables, let allows to create new lexical bindings, setf/setq also works on them 05:26:26 nug700_: it seems daunting at first but the hyperspec documents all standard format string directives 05:27:23 (http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm) 05:27:25 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:44 hm 05:27:47 KDr2_ [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has joined #lisp 05:27:54 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:28:16 -!- breakds_ [~breakds@adsl-71-150-253-174.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:31 err I realize that my sentence on variables was mixed up because of wrong re-editing heh 05:28:36 I'll repost it 05:28:42 ok 05:28:55 nug700_, you want format to return a string or to print? 05:28:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:29:37 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:29:46 nug700_: perhaps because in general new lexically scoped LET bindings are used instead of assignment, but setf can be used on those lexically scoped variables as well, just that it's often not the cleanest solution... as for dynamically (special) scoped variables, let allows to create new lexical bindings, setf/setq also works on them (in other languages those are generally "global", in lisp they can be global or dynamically scoped) 05:30:10 (format t "~A" x) does what i want, which is to print x to the repel. (x is an integer) 05:30:23 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:28 and on dynamically scoped variables LET has dynamic scope actually 05:30:36 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:53 those are terms you should see in most common lisp documentation 05:31:21 hm. 05:31:35 LISP seems to have a steaper learning curve than i expected 05:31:56 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_lisp#Determiners_of_scope 05:32:27 common lisp is not a minimal language, but it's not the hardest either 05:32:29 nug: Learning faster than you expected? 05:32:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:32:39 (princ x) is the no-frills version of your print statement 05:33:08 Zhivago: no, I mean LISP is harder to learn than I expected. 05:33:58 is first language you learn? 05:34:09 no 05:34:27 I've been using the C's for about a year 05:34:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:34:44 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:35:01 Lisp has fundamental differences from C/Algol-type languages 05:35:07 I think I'll enjoy lisp, though, once i can figure out how to use it. 05:35:18 there is a comparison between c and lisp somewhere 05:35:33 -!- miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-173.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:35:55 i don't remember now but i'm searching 05:36:28 DataLinkDroid: yea, I've noticed that, lol. 05:36:53 nug700_: you haven't seen anything yet :) 05:37:05 nug700_, http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/contents.html 05:37:06 nug700_: I touch CL since i encountered stumpwm by accident 05:37:09 are there libraries in lisp for making GUI programs? 05:37:21 mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-208.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:37:45 nug700_: heaps. that's the problem :) 05:37:48 yes but is not early to jump to a gui? 05:38:05 nug700_, there's commonqt with designer support, at that 05:38:11 and it works on windows with clozure 05:38:11 ltk 05:39:13 I've been woundering if i can make a game engine using lisp (eventually) 05:39:51 lispbuilder 05:40:27 if i'm not wrong sdl work with cl 05:40:35 see also #lispgames 05:41:01 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:31 -!- deliciousrobots_ [~delicious@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:42 -!- kyl [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41:57 (ql:system-apropos "lispbuilder") will show you some goodies 05:42:45 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-nymbaabbfheeyjmm] has joined #lisp 05:43:08 hm.. should probably get more of the basics down first... like how to properly us Lisps version of "IF" 05:43:29 is a normal if 05:43:47 think ternary operator ... :) 05:45:34 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:45:48 you may find Touretzky's Gentle introduction to symbolic computation very useful. 05:45:50 maybe he also means the predicates though 05:46:11 nug700_: also look at cond 05:46:15 www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 05:46:37 predicates.... 05:47:01 boolean functions 05:47:14 ah 05:47:35 I agree about that book being a good introduction... have you also seen practical common lisp? Especially if you did some coding before 05:48:03 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:48:13 those might be the two books most regularily recommended here 05:48:17 i've been reading practical common lisp. 05:48:22 ok 05:48:29 I think a lot of my confusion may be because of it. 05:48:49 it doesn't give much of a description of how things actually work. 05:48:49 try succesfull lisp, the link i posted 05:49:04 is simple and short 05:49:17 that's because pcl doesn't cover the fundamentals very well. it's a hands on approach. that's why dst's book is good 05:49:54 -!- KDr2_ [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:50:43 hm, looks like i have much reading to do. 05:51:19 you need to try what you read else is hard to understand 05:52:12 yea, I always type everything in tutorials out. 05:52:15 doesn't 'Land of Lisp' gets any love? 05:53:37 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:53:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:53:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:53:48 xuser_: LoL looks fun but never used it myself 05:53:51 KDr2_ [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has joined #lisp 05:55:47 i guess every book is good for a given type of user 05:56:04 Land of Lisp can be a fun introduction to cl, and many of its idioms, but i think you need another book in addition to it to actually be able to use cl 05:58:19 *robot-beethoven* read LoL as his first CL book, which hooked him, but he needed to read the excellent PCL before he could actually make things 05:58:22 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-yfwgiesirtuucrqk] has joined #lisp 05:59:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:00:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:00:59 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.66.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:02:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed 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[~guiambros@z65-50-88-217.ips.direcpath.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:09:25 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:10:19 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:34 sie [~root@131.207.242.152] has joined #lisp 07:11:34 -!- sie [~root@131.207.242.152] has quit [Changing host] 07:11:34 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has joined #lisp 07:17:43 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-69-251.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:17:52 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-92-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 07:20:52 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 07:21:44 aw|rattler [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 07:21:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-87.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:24 fzappa [~user@int.emakina.nl] has joined #lisp 07:23:41 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-yfwgiesirtuucrqk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:24:09 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:24:34 tcr1 [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:25:15 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 07:26:07 -!- veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:02 *rszeno* c++ standard draft, have 1334 pages, and people say lisp is hard to learn, :) 07:29:19 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 07:29:20 rszeno, it'd be hard to come up with an index that big 07:29:41 no, wait 07:30:05 noone claims C++ isn't hard to learn 07:30:46 true 07:30:52 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:31:23 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:31:32 I'd say that CL has a lot of baggage to learn. :) 07:32:24 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:13 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:18 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-248-28.uio.no] has joined #lisp 07:33:27 i guess the main problem is understanding the concepts after other language mess with them before 07:34:08 assigment mainly and bindings 07:34:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has joined #lisp 07:34:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has quit [Changing host] 07:34:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:35:14 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:54 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:22 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:38:35 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:40:53 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:31 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 07:42:04 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:43:56 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-216-94.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:26 gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 07:51:19 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:53:02 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:45 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:41 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 07:55:12 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 07:59:41 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:59:46 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:59:59 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.53.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:01:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:02:33 -!- karswell` [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:03:06 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:03:06 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:03:06 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:09:21 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-120-210.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:09:50 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.81.203.176] has joined #lisp 08:10:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 08:10:15 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 08:10:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:10:32 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 08:12:49 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12:50 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:12:50 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:12:50 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:19:43 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:20:10 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@76.178.163.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:20:28 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.81.203.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:25 phadthai_ [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:25 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:08 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 08:28:16 I've required my package, which is symlinked into quicklisp's local-projects directory. I've defsystem-ed it, but I use the package, seems like it's not there. Where did I go wrong? 08:28:20 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:28:54 sie: you need to be more precise 08:30:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:31:16 I made a proejct with asd file. It has asdf:defsystem in it. I (require "project") it, but I can't get into the package in slime. 08:31:39 sie: Do you have a defpackage in there? 08:32:04 No, do I need one? I was looking at github projects, they didn't have a matching defpackage line. 08:32:06 -!- d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:42 sie: yes they do 08:33:03 https://github.com/lokedhs/cl-gss/blob/master/src/package.lisp 08:33:05 like that 08:33:16 ah, in .lisp 08:33:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has joined #lisp 08:33:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has quit [Changing host] 08:33:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:33:56 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.177.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:51 Great, thank you! 08:37:11 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.157.6] has left #lisp 08:37:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:38:02 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-181-238.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:38:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:38:52 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined 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[~teggi@113.172.36.159] has joined #lisp 09:44:54 Joreji [~thomas@66-082.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:29 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-147-121.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 09:46:26 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:26 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:49:00 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-216-94.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:44 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 09:51:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:54:07 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has joined #lisp 09:55:47 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 09:57:44 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:58:23 davazp [~user@92.251.228.86.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 10:00:41 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@101.174.190.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:03:40 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:04:35 nilsi [~nilsi@77.53.45.49] has joined #lisp 10:09:54 harish [~harish@155.69.194.177] has joined #lisp 10:10:10 p_nathan [~vlion@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 10:12:13 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:14:14 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.194.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:14:28 -!- KDr2_ [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:14:40 harish [~harish@155.69.194.177] has joined #lisp 10:16:52 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:18:55 -!- harish [~harish@155.69.194.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:21:50 nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 10:34:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-082.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:44:47 SLIME starts with messages with "polling" etc. and the slime repl/buffer opens in a second window. it used to open in the default window previously. how can i do that? make slime use the default window? 10:45:29 what is "default window"? 10:45:31 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-234-140.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:47:34 *Quadrescence* is happy it doesn't open in the current window 10:47:51 when i start slime, there is only one frame and it has only one window. its usually the scratch buffer. slime start by making a new window. the one you get with C-x 3 10:48:14 err C-x 2 10:48:26 that has been the case for, i don't know, ever? 10:48:38 for a long time for sure 10:48:46 I recall the behavior theos is talking about 10:49:03 i reinstalled slime yesterday and before that, it wasnt the behaviour 10:49:20 at least it was like that '11-'12 on Windows 10:49:27 s/that/that in/ 10:49:29 slime used to open a new full frame buffer 10:49:36 how old was it before? 10:51:01 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 10:51:46 i used quicklisp-slime-helper. the previous version i think. (if beta is the new one) 10:52:03 theos, what OS? 10:52:14 ubuntu 10.04 10:52:25 there's no versions of slime, and it surely didn't change while in the time quicklisp has been around 10:52:38 Alaa [~alaa@92.96.49.185] has joined #lisp 10:52:40 i think i installed slime 6 months ago using quicklisp. 10:53:00 theos, same-window-buffer-names? 10:53:14 rszeno whats that? 10:53:24 variable in emacs 10:53:49 if is nil switch to *shell* buffer or something like this 10:54:10 see C-h v and value/doc 10:54:39 i'm guessing, not sure this is the problem 10:54:58 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:47 slime didn't change that behaviour for years, so only customizations/changes to pop-to-buffer can affect it 10:56:12 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:56:15 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:04 could be overwriten by other packages not slime 10:57:48 i updates emacs too... 10:57:57 updated* 10:58:23 update recompile lisp 10:58:24 but the .emacs file is the same. almost 10:58:30 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 10:58:30 they fucked up buffer switching recently 10:58:42 but it was that way before that too 10:59:13 debian based distro have a emacs.d in /etc 10:59:52 they keep some things there 11:00:14 i have (when (boundp 'split-width-threshold) (setq split-width-threshold nil split-height-threshold nil)) in .emacs so that it doesn't split windows in a braindamaged way 11:00:33 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 11:00:57 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 11:02:54 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:03:18 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-26.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:03:50 kanru [~kanru@173.243.46.194] has joined #lisp 11:04:25 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:04:45 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:08 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-111.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:05:17 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-111.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:21 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.228.86.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:11:41 i used (setq pop-up-windows nil) and its now opening every buffer in the same window :D it worked for slime though 11:12:10 good, :) 11:12:20 why do you start slime so often to care? 11:12:38 point ^^ 11:13:05 or do you have a very small screen? 11:13:26 its an ok screen. 11:13:52 buffer/window management is painful in emacs anyhow you turn it 11:14:24 i would just use C-x 1 11:16:16 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 11:17:33 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:20:30 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 11:22:04 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-011-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:23:31 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:25:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:25:43 fsvehla [~fsvehla@046075188255.atmpu0014.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:31:41 zan-xhipe [294d9898@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.77.152.152] has joined #lisp 11:33:46 drmeister1 [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:44 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 11:45:31 -!- Adeon [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:45:36 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 11:46:26 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 11:46:44 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 11:49:00 Adeon [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has joined #lisp 11:51:42 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:52:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:54:22 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:56:04 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:57:42 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 12:03:06 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:06:42 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 12:07:33 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:02 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-87.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:05 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.193.215] has joined #lisp 12:10:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:11:05 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:11:21 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:46 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:12:30 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:38 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-147-121.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:14:46 -!- EvW1 [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:15:59 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.184] has joined #lisp 12:16:10 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 12:16:37 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:20:50 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 12:25:19 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 12:26:30 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27:42 _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:30 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:29:47 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-014-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:34 -!- _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:31:37 -!- zan-xhipe [294d9898@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.77.152.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:32:28 KDr2_ [~KDr2@114.243.251.150] has joined #lisp 12:33:20 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:00 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:03 -!- drmeister1 [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:37:36 if you have buffer/window problems, you should try switch-window 12:38:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:38:37 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:41:30 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 12:42:08 if i were to start making releases for commonqt, which version number would be the first one? 12:42:08 Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined #lisp 12:42:09 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 12:42:22 1.0 seems like too much, 0.1 is too litle 12:42:25 maybe 0.5? 12:43:41 that's only halfway there; maybe 0.6? 12:45:45 stassats: http://semver.org/ basically you should go by how stable the API is. 12:46:01 even if you think there's a lot of work to do, imo, it should be 1.0 if you're willing to commit to the API you currently have. 12:46:27 stable api? what's that? 12:46:40 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 12:46:40 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 12:46:40 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:56 did you just say "stable" and "API" in the same sentence? 12:46:57 if you promise that #'foo exists, and that it's going to keep basically the same behavior, modulo bug fixes 12:47:29 small, compatible changes and additions simply increment the minor version. 12:50:33 i'm not sure that what to commit to, since i don't hear many people using it or providing feedback 12:51:13 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:51:20 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 12:51:41 perhaps prebuilt binaries for windows and linux will change that, if i ever get around to it 12:51:51 and maybe then 1.0 will be warranted 12:54:20 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:55:55 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:56:37 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:55 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:bd7d:e9be:cd51:dc6c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:03 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-hwmqgawlkgapxkgu] has joined #lisp 13:03:56 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 13:05:21 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 13:07:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:07:38 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:15 drmeister1 [~drmeister@166.137.107.157] has joined #lisp 13:08:36 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:11:04 -!- drmeister1 [~drmeister@166.137.107.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:12:34 -!- aw|rattler [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 13:12:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:13:03 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:13:59 -!- sie [~root@unaffiliated/sie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 13:14:23 stassats: I suspect prebuilt binaries would help a /lot/ 13:14:36 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.184] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 it's hard to justify the trouble, i don't need neither releases, nor prebuilt binaries 13:16:43 antgreen [~green@out-on-142.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:16:47 where are open source fairies? of release-management flavor 13:17:36 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:17:58 Sherlock_ [74e36602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.116.227.102.2] has joined #lisp 13:19:11 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:20:30 canada 13:21:01 (nor i need more users) 13:21:19 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:26 fairies? Didn't know faerie emigrated to Colonies ;) 13:21:32 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 13:22:13 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 13:22:19 -!- Sherlock_ [74e36602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.116.227.102.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:22:38 drmeister1 [~drmeister@166.137.107.157] has joined #lisp 13:22:42 -!- drmeister1 [~drmeister@166.137.107.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:16 drmeister1 [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:25:44 In COMPILE-FILE, the :external-format keyword argument specifies the output format of COMPILE-FILE - is that correct? I don't see where that is specified but it doesn't make much sense to specify the input-format because that would just be flat text. 13:25:48 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:17 davazp [~user@92.251.184.152.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 13:26:25 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@046075188255.atmpu0014.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:26:31 no, it doesn't make sense the way you describe it 13:26:42 :external-format is the encoding of the input source file 13:26:48 That's why I ask these questions. 13:27:06 So it's the character encoding then? 13:27:09 clhs compile-file 13:27:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp_fi.htm 13:27:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-179-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:27 "The external-format specifies the external file format to be used when opening the file" 13:27:52 clhs glossary/external file format 13:27:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_e.htm#external_file_format 13:28:35 Right, I see the "one of possibly several implementation-dependent ways in which characters are encoded externally in a character file." 13:28:38 skalawag [~barnacle@li206-225.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:53 So I'd like COMPILE-FILE to generate different output formats - how would I specify that? 13:29:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:22 I can generate compiled LLVM-IR bitcode files and native code object files. 13:29:56 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:04 I can use a dynamic variable - but that seems like a bit of a hack. 13:30:28 by using keyword arguments, naturally 13:30:57 I can't add additional keyword arguments because the CLHS COMPILE-FILE doesn't support additional keywords. 13:31:07 -!- bitonic [~user@176.27.229.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:31:17 where does it say that you can't add them? 13:31:28 On the street. 13:31:35 which street is that? 13:31:51 agumonkey [~agu@126.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:18 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-014-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:32:18 I'm being silly - here in this channel. Adding additional keywords to CL functions is frowned upon. 13:33:04 what's a few frowns? 13:33:05 by whom? 13:33:32 if someone doesn't like it, they can make their own lisp implementation 13:33:34 clhs 1.6 13:33:35 Language Extensions: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/01_f.htm 13:34:16 drmeister1: there's a good number of examples that add new keywords. Consider the hash tables in different implementations. 13:34:29 -!- monotrichous65 [~monotrich@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: monotrichous65] 13:35:01 or CL:BREAK 13:35:37 dlowe: break? it's really hard to add anything to it 13:35:42 perhaps you think trace? 13:35:46 Hmm, I had several people tell me that adding additional keywords was a bad idea because it makes code that by the CL standard would throw an exception - not throw an exception. Perhaps I misunderstood. 13:35:48 yes. trace. 13:36:14 drmeister1: with &allow-other-keys, perhaps 13:36:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:27 luceres35 [~Luceres35@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:29 Well, that loosens things up a bit. 13:36:48 *sykopomp* wonders what CL functions have &allow-other-keys outside of CLOS stuff. 13:37:02 or, even better, :allow-other-keys t. 13:37:16 ahh, I always forget about that one :) 13:37:19 drmeister1: i don't understand your concerns, you are adding an implementation-dependent feature 13:37:39 whatever choice you do, it won't be portable, but adding keyword arguments is the easiest one to use 13:37:43 -!- drmeister1 [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:38:39 ext:compile-to-byte-code, (let ((ext:*compile-to-byte-code* ...)) (compile-file ...)) is as unportable as (compile-file :byte-code t) 13:39:12 and conforms to "An implementation can have extensions, provided they do not alter the behavior of conforming code and provided they are not explicitly prohibited by this standard." 13:39:30 drmeister1 [~drmeister@166.137.107.157] has joined #lisp 13:39:46 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:40:20 -!- kanru [~kanru@173.243.46.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:40:23 (grumble) Lousy wireless connection 13:40:40 minion: please tell drmeister1 about logs 13:40:40 drmeister1: direct your attention towards logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 13:41:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:41:32 stassats: Thank you for that info on logs. 13:41:39 minion: thanks 13:41:40 no problem 13:42:45 So I've almost got my CL implementation working to a point where it's usable (by my definition). It's hosting ECL CLOS. I'm just working on conditions. 13:43:37 I've got a funny problem though with FORMAT - I can't format lists. Only the first entry gets printed. Everything else seems to work. 13:44:21 CLOS works, generic functions dispatch properly, LOOP works, macros work, setf works. Format has a problem. 13:44:23 breakds [~breakds@adsl-71-150-253-174.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:24 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xgpkrvgkwbxddlta] has joined #lisp 13:44:27 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 13:44:37 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.133.181] has joined #lisp 13:44:43 Has anyone here worked with the FORMAT code? 13:45:09 This is the ECL FORMAT code 13:45:35 It was originally from the CMU Common Lisp code base. 13:48:06 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:48:07 (format nil "My peeps ~{ ~A~}" '(melanie caity astra shadow callie)) --> "My peeps MELANIE" 13:48:33 It doesn't crash or indicate any problems. It just stops. 13:48:35 nongeek [~mohsen@188.75.84.162] has joined #lisp 13:51:08 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.133.181] has left #lisp 13:51:24 I still haven't figure out how it uses directives and arguments to iterate through lists. 13:52:46 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 13:53:07 hello folks 13:53:30 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:53:30 Can I find the author of land lisp book? 13:53:46 no 13:54:21 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 13:54:26 Alright - I'll be back later to query the afternoon/evening crowd. Thanks for your help everyone! 13:54:33 -!- drmeister1 [~drmeister@166.137.107.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:17 well, too late for drmeister1: (macroexpand '(formatter "My peeps ~{ ~A~}")) 13:55:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:23 nongeek: his email is listed on http://landoflisp.com/ 13:55:31 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.249] has joined #lisp 13:55:41 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:55:45 looks like his simple loop is not working 13:57:28 I see 13:57:34 but him not reply :( 13:57:40 kanru [~kanru@66.207.208.98] has joined #lisp 13:58:02 minion: memo for drmeister: try (macroexpand '(formatter "~{~A~}")) 13:58:02 Remembered. I'll tell drmeister when he/she/it next speaks. 13:59:30 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.184.152.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:59:45 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:28 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@77.53.45.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:54 bitonic [~user@94.11.16.254] has joined #lisp 14:04:18 -!- nongeek [~mohsen@188.75.84.162] has left #lisp 14:04:52 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 14:06:52 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:07:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:09:15 -!- bitonic [~user@94.11.16.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:12 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 14:12:37 bitonic [~user@94.11.16.254] has joined #lisp 14:14:17 pinc0de [pinc@cpc2-wake1-0-0-cust240.17-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:48 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 14:18:52 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19:15 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-dev] 14:20:35 *maxm-* is actually horrified about amount of code all my logging stuff generates under SBCL, which by default expands with (formatter).. Maybe I should include (locally (optimize (space 2))) by default, since its usually not executed 14:20:49 although we have multi-gigabyte boxes now 14:25:52 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:26:20 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-85-109.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:31:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:33:42 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-85-109.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:37:51 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:55 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:51 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-216-94.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:51 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has joined #lisp 14:40:50 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 14:41:24 yuri` [~user@201.75.87.151] has joined #lisp 14:41:28 -!- yuri` is now known as Denommus 14:41:41 -!- Denommus [~user@201.75.87.151] has quit [Changing host] 14:41:42 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:41:52 hi 14:42:26 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:13 -!- fzappa [~user@int.emakina.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:16 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:43:49 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-142.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:44:07 -!- teiresia1 is now known as teiresias 14:44:17 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@71-214-127-205.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:44:17 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-3-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:15 Denommus: hello 14:46:27 -!- dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-3-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:18 dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-3-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:13 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:52:37 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:54:47 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.184] has joined #lisp 14:54:51 -!- skalawag [~barnacle@li206-225.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 14:55:06 aw|rattler [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 14:55:33 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:57 -!- KDr2_ [~KDr2@114.243.251.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:00:05 gvz [~garvezys@29.37.38.86.mobile.mezon.lt] has joined #lisp 15:00:22 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:07 drmeister1 [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:02:50 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-248-28.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 15:03:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:04:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:06:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:06:27 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:05 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 15:08:05 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-xybmmwjpzgnlnqjj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:01 davazp [~user@178.167.167.177.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 15:12:08 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:12:46 nahiluhm_ [~nahiluhmo@129.10.106.145] has joined #lisp 15:14:48 josemanuel [~josemanue@5.228.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:16:43 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:17:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:07 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:18:15 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:21:01 hm... slowly grokking type specifiers... wondering if there's a way I can specify a vector that satisfies a predicate... ie: I have a type POSITIVE-INTERVAL that checks if a given interval struct has a positive range. I can use (vector positive-interval *) in my CHECK-TYPE form, but it doesn't seem to signal TYPE-ERROR when one of the elements in the vector should fail the predicate... 15:21:03 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 15:21:37 j_king: probably because upgraded-array-element-type is something like T 15:21:37 it's the same as (vector t) 15:22:58 use every or a satisfies typespec 15:23:27 -!- gvz [~garvezys@29.37.38.86.mobile.mezon.lt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:30 and think about whether you really want to do that 15:25:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:26:20 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 15:27:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:27:28 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:28:28 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 15:28:36 Xaxch stassats: thanks. what would be the correct way to check that all elements of a vector satisfy a predicate anyway, for the curious? 15:28:59 adeht: I've tried using EVERY which results in an undefined type error 15:29:02 iterate over each element 15:29:14 stassats: I see. 15:29:32 j_king: you actually want something like (dotimes (i (length vector)) (check-type (aref vector i) the-type)) 15:30:47 or generalize my algo to satisfy queries and incidents with negative interval ranges. but it's so nice and simple to just think of the positive ones. :) 15:31:22 satisfies is just a way to call a function which "iterates over each element" 15:31:45 stassats: thanks 15:33:23 You know what'd be interesting? Being able to define new array type specializations as a user. 15:34:24 just for type-checking? i don't really see any advantages for the layout 15:34:47 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:35:50 Go ahead, define an array specialized to hold (member :a :b :c :d) objects, and tell me that the layout wouldn't be more space-efficient than the layout for T. 15:36:22 i would just use use (integer 0 3) 15:37:08 Sure, but then your interface is more complex than just AREF. 15:40:09 aref will be more complex otherwise, translating between symbols and integers would need to be done only at the entry points 15:40:29 making it more efficient eventually without being more complex 15:41:25 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 15:41:28 nyef: I'm more worried about unforeseen interactions between extensions. Next think you know, you have to support (eql :a) vectors. 15:41:51 We already have to support VECTOR NIL. 15:42:09 not "have", "decided to" 15:42:35 but *we* know that. Some library adds (member :a :b :c :d), another (member :a :e :f), and who's responsible for (eql :a)? 15:43:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:43:34 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:43:50 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-145-019.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:45:14 Anyway, it was just a random thought, and not one that I'm especially planning on following through on at this time. (-: 15:50:26 -!- aw|rattler [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 15:51:58 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@109.120.59.223] has joined #lisp 15:51:59 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.193.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:12 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 15:52:57 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 15:53:50 miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-173.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:14 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:35 hmm I wonder if sbcl would get any measurable performance boost from running in long-mode with 32-bit addresses 16:05:16 -!- nahiluhm_ [~nahiluhmo@129.10.106.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:21 nyef: generalized sequences let you define sequences specialized to hold (member :a :b :c :d), and a space-efficient representation for them 16:07:27 you can't use aref but you can use elt 16:07:39 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-216-94.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:09:31 jasom: probably. but the heap would be tiny. 8 GB at most, unless you're willingto play with lowtags and reduce the fixnum range. 16:10:20 scratch that. I don't even see how to get 8 GB. 16:10:32 32-bit addresses? Sounds like the Alpha backend. 16:11:02 A build option for x86-64 that I've at least considered, even if it's very far down on my priority list. 16:11:04 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:41 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-120-210.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:56 I hear some californian corporation has 32+8 bit pointers internally. 16:14:11 pkhuong: I used a <4GB heap for many years 16:14:24 many people did 16:14:50 and still do! 16:14:53 aw|rattler [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 16:15:18 Note that a "narrow-heap-word" build for x86-64 would very likely mean no stack-allocated-anything. 16:15:24 any way to figure out what fraction of your heap is pointers? I could estimate heap savings on a real image 16:15:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:16:56 <_schulte_> any idea what could cause sbcl to claim it has written a fasl into ~/.cache when no file exists afterwards? 16:17:25 jasom: Have a look at SYS:SRC;CODE;ROOM.LISP for a starting point. 16:18:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003a15.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:44 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:21:11 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-145-019.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:09 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 16:24:40 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-147-121.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 16:27:13 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-118.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:32:14 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@188.168.242.249] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:39:11 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:59 -!- Labrit is now known as Tribal 16:41:10 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.228.91] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 -!- hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.228.91] has quit [Client Quit] 16:42:10 -!- callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:44:21 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.59.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:55 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: EvW] 16:48:39 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:40 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:49:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:50:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:52:46 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:54:20 movbh [~wircer@77-21-185-234-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:54:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 16:55:55 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 16:56:19 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:56:24 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.184] has joined #lisp 16:56:30 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:56:42 callen [~callen@198.199.80.102] has joined #lisp 16:57:09 satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:44 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:02:35 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 17:02:40 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:03:50 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:05:35 Is there a term that describes the following? I want to write code that will read itself and if someone makes changes to it, have it automatically add corresponding code to all classes that are affected by it. 17:05:55 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d122083.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:15 ^ have the following behaviour occur at compile time 17:06:29 "maintenance horror" is the closest I can think of 17:06:37 lol 17:06:49 "eldritch ways" maybe 17:07:10 so, here in lisp land, we don't add code to classes 17:07:19 "What? Why?!?" comes to mind. 17:07:25 but we do define methods specialized on classes 17:07:48 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:07:53 so you write a macro, call it call-elder-gods. Then you can (call-elder-gods ) 17:08:18 and it expands to (progn ), some of which is (defmethod ) 17:08:18 well I am thinking in terms of Java, but I am thinking about converting the code to scala if it means I can auto generate code. 17:08:30 you are asking in the wrong channel, then 17:08:54 scala is a dialect of lisp no? 17:08:55 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:08:57 no. 17:09:08 and this channel is for Common Lisp, as per the title 17:09:22 every dialect of lisp has its own channel 17:09:25 well then any common lisp that compiles on the jvm will do 17:09:36 oh, I did not know 17:09:46 abcl is a common lisp for the jvm 17:10:03 thanks 17:12:53 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:22 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:55 jtza8 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joined #lisp 19:59:51 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:02:31 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d122083.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:02:46 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177253166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:56 -!- dtm [~dtm@adsl-69-110-0-49.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:03:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:05:26 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:08:38 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-014-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:09:32 dhcpd [bb725370@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.114.83.112] has joined #lisp 20:10:01 I wanted to give LISP a go, but apparently there are many languages: Scheme, Common Lisp, SBCL, etc. 20:10:14 SBCL is an implementation of Common Lisp 20:10:15 SBCL is Common Lisp 20:10:19 and LISP is Lisp 20:10:22 and this channel is for Common Lisp, specifically. 20:10:29 I know/like C and Haskell and hate the idea of C++, for example. 20:10:41 hate C++? join the party! 20:10:46 Could this help on choosing a language for me 20:10:49 ? 20:10:57 stassats: Who doesn't? hehe 20:11:04 the only answer #lisp can give you is "Common Lisp" 20:11:20 No unbiased answer around here...? 20:11:27 it's the only correct answer, there's no bias here 20:11:37 Could you argument, please? 20:11:43 As opposed to Scheme, for example. 20:11:49 Why'd you defend CL? 20:11:50 may as well go into #haskell and ask for opinions on ML dialects 20:11:57 because everything else is rubbish 20:12:15 Bike: Oh, so that's what it boils down to... 20:12:35 go to ##javascript and ask them whether to choose C++, Java, or JavaScript as the Java dialect for your next app. 20:13:46 dhcpd: I think you'll find that we're pretty weary of "defending" anything to people who stop by 20:14:07 dhcpd: there's a lot of people who want to be convinced 20:14:14 Indeed 20:14:26 Just try it and see if you like it. There's a very nice book. 20:14:34 minon: tell dhcpd about pcl 20:14:42 who's minon? 20:14:45 *dlowe* nudges minion with a broomstick. 20:15:00 oops 20:15:04 minion: tell dhcpd about pcl 20:15:04 dhcpd: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 20:15:31 sykopomp: minon is the french version :p 20:15:35 Thank you! 20:15:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:03 Sure thing. 20:16:12 dlowe: that would be, 'mignon'. :) 20:17:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:17:33 (unless minon is actually minion in french :/) 20:18:01 There's a typo in http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/introduction-why-lisp.html 20:18:10 ctrl+f "Haskel" 20:18:17 There's a missing "l" 20:18:42 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.154.83] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:18:47 call the national guard 20:20:05 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:20:34 -!- sondr3 [~sondr3@58.186.219.159] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client] 20:23:30 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:25:26 normanrichards [~normanric@12.133.151.122] has joined #lisp 20:25:28 miql [~miql@ip72-201-117-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:48 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:26 dhcpd: They Called It LISP for a Reason: List Processing. ... They maybe Called it Haskell for a Reason but I don't know why. :) 20:27:51 -!- dhcpd [bb725370@gateway/web/freenode/ip.187.114.83.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:28:56 maybe they liked indian food 20:30:22 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:33 shoes-off [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 20:32:07 -!- shoes-off is now known as daimrod 20:33:30 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:41 satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.59] has joined #lisp 20:33:48 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:34:11 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 20:34:18 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@188.168.242.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:34:35 -!- drmeister1 [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:12 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:35:13 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@184-98-115-15.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:35:32 -!- gvz [~garvezys@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:36:02 in honor of Haskell Curry 20:36:21 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 20:36:43 hiato [~hiato@41-133-0-51.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:37:16 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-124-134.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:40 a particularly flavorful kind 20:38:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:39:13 <_schulte_> anyone know how to hide the "; compiling..." messages in SBCL? 20:39:28 clhs *c-f-v* 20:39:29 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for *c-f-v*. 20:39:33 clhs *c-v* 20:39:33 *compile-verbose*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_cmp_pr.htm 20:39:33 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@134.71.204.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:39:44 clhs *l-v* 20:39:44 *load-verbose*: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_ld_prs.htm 20:39:59 <_schulte_> stassats: thanks 20:40:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:42:52 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 20:44:00 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 20:45:06 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 20:45:31 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-181-238.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:46:10 -!- daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:50:53 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 20:52:17 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:53:56 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 20:54:33 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-118.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:57:17 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@5.228.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:58:33 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 breakds [~breakds@adsl-71-150-253-174.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:48 lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C19336.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:03:36 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 21:03:38 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:05:55 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-135-72.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:07:49 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:08:46 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-92-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:07 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.167.177.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.154.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:15:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-48-1.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:17:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-108.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:32 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:00 agumonkey [~agu@126.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:45 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:01 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.214.175.35] has joined #lisp 21:23:14 -!- aw|rattler [~aw@unaffiliated/aw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 21:23:28 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-48-1.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:16 -!- pnpuff [~C6248@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:25:09 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 21:25:09 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 21:25:09 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:25:43 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:49 davazp [~user@178.167.200.127.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 21:26:25 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177253166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:30:12 -!- hiato [~hiato@41-133-0-51.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 21:30:12 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:32:59 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:08 bitonic [~user@94.11.16.254] has joined #lisp 21:34:48 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:20 pierpa [~user@95.236.59.155] has joined #lisp 21:36:01 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:39:16 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@d54C19336.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 21:42:46 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:43:16 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:28 deliciousrobots [~delicious@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:58 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.202] has joined #lisp 21:44:14 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.214.175.35] has left #lisp 21:48:03 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-92-130.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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