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Sorry for the late reply had work and didn't see you message. 00:40:31 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:43:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:43:37 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 00:44:10 Guthur: well some implementations have difficulties making round trips between native pathnames and physical pathnames 00:44:46 But perhaps the problem is more with documentation of those implementations 00:47:05 It's one of those things that you kind of expect to just work, but interacting outside of the CL world also has it's pitfalls I suppose 00:47:39 Well, it just "work" when you stay within the POSIX world. 00:48:30 If you used to work on Mac OS, for examples, you had quite a different kind of files. (resource forks, data forks, etc). And in other systems, even more stranger files, with "records", indexes, variable sized records, fixed sized records, etc. 00:49:21 and of course, the strangeless of the various kind of naming schemes, volume organizations and access right management. 00:49:25 s/less/ness/ 00:50:20 I don't need to support them so I will be blessful in my ignorance, hehe 00:51:39 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:50 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:55 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:56 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:12 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:51 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 01:06:01 drmeister 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Connection reset by peer] 03:33:38 Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@116.231.42.110] has joined #lisp 03:33:48 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.132.58] has joined #lisp 03:42:14 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-33.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:42:31 -!- arrsim [~user@2001:44b8:415c:cc01:6ef0:49ff:fe5e:dedb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:34 -!- Anarch_ is now known as Anarch 03:57:11 -!- Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@116.231.42.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:01:13 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:22 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Quit: l'unica verità.. è la morte stessa!] 04:02:24 santana [~santana@201-167-0-181-cable.cybercable.net.mx] has joined #lisp 04:02:26 I'm trying to use the equal function on some lists using clisp: (equal () () ) works but when I actually add something to my lists ie: (equal (A) () ) . Clisp then moans about A not being a defined function. What am I doing wrong? 04:03:00 totimkopf: not quoting. (a) is a call to A with no arguments, just like how (equal () ()) is a call to EQUAL with two arguments. 04:03:05 totimkopf: you need to quote the list to prevent evaluation 04:03:26 (equal (list (quote a)) (quote ())) 04:03:28 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:03:40 or (equal (quote (a)) (quote ())) 04:03:49 Thank you, I am following Common Lisp : A gentle introduction to Symbolic Computation. So far it did not say anything about quotes. :) 04:04:05 then (equal (list 1 2 3) (list 1 2 3)) 04:05:19 thanks. 04:05:49 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:06:20 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:04 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:18:58 Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@112.65.188.118] has joined #lisp 04:21:27 -!- chenqsuii [~chenqsu@113.89.209.227] has quit [Quit: ] 04:22:43 -!- hq1 [~aerosol@unaffiliated/hq1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:23:55 chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.89.209.227] has joined #lisp 04:26:23 -!- hugod [~user@69.157.169.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:45 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585130.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:40:05 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 04:42:20 k0001 [~k0001@host67.190-138-117.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:44:20 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit 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Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 09:56:27 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 09:57:07 so, what is a good parser building lib these days? drewc used to push towards his smug solution but seems to have been deprecating it, and cl-yacc is not great at building the forms out of the parsing, it's quite easily a mess there 09:57:44 (and the lexer is heavily coupled in yacc based solutions) 10:00:44 -!- chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.89.209.227] has quit [Quit: chenqisu] 10:02:19 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.116.118.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:03:13 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-120-146-70-87.lns9.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:03:51 -!- Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:04:08 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 10:05:54 chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.89.209.227] has joined #lisp 10:06:02 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:07:28 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@31.212.107.98] has quit [Quit: jute] 10:11:36 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vwghqrqxtznxbvaa] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:12 -!- Tordek_ [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-tuvalyodeyjhkbie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:13 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-uvmxhjsvnhzzacsp] has joined #lisp 10:13:46 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-127.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:29 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-13.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:14:39 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:16:05 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:17:15 http://tkb.mpl.com/~tkb/software/misc/Prag-Parse.html 10:17:26 that looks quite powerful 10:17:36 dim: esrap? 10:17:36 abeaumont [~abeaumont@92.Red-88-8-237.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:58 news to me, I guess most of you will say "classic", so if you have feedback (usual traps, etc) don't hesitate ;) 10:18:15 samebchase: it's apparently an older technique and called Meta 10:18:40 Pragmatic Parsing in Common Lisp: We review META, a classic technique for building recursive descent parsers, that is both simple and efficient. 10:20:36 I want to write a markdown->s-exp converter, but I have no idea how to start. I'll try using esrap. 10:22:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:23:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:24:21 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:03 <|3b|> samebchase: 3bmd parses markdown with esrap 10:27:04 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@186.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 10:27:28 gvz [gvz@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:27:49 *|3b|* doesn't remember if it has a usable s-exp intermediate form or not though 10:28:12 josemanuel [~josemanue@186.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:28:20 oh cool. can you link me to it? 10:28:29 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 10:28:40 <|3b|> https://github.com/3b/3bmd 10:29:06 |3b|: the reason I want the intermediate for is something like cl-who can easily generate the html 10:29:14 intermediate form* 10:30:44 |3b|: is it feature complete, as per the markdown spec? 10:31:17 <|3b|> i think so 10:31:37 okay. what about gh-flavoured markdown? 10:31:56 <|3b|> it does some of that too, if not exactly the same 10:32:04 <|3b|> and has a few other extensions as well 10:32:17 *|3b|* isn't sure all of them are pushed to github though, checking that now 10:33:22 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:33:56 |3b|: how difficult would it be for me (or anyone for that matter) to make use of your code to arrive at an s-exp intermediate representation? 10:34:34 <|3b|> not sure... i think it has an s-exp intermediate rep, but it probably isn't all that sane :p 10:35:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:35:12 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 10:35:21 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:35:52 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298C83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:37:02 <|3b|> i don't think it would be hard to clean it up, but it would probably at least be tedious (basically just writing something like printer.lisp that builds a nicer list instead of printing html) 10:37:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:38:42 |3b|: would a markdown->s-exp thingy be useful? One use-case I can see is the template can be specified in lisp forms, and then the content (written in md, and then converted to s-exp) spliced in between 10:39:48 |3b|: in any case learning how to use esrap will be easier, with your code 10:40:18 *|3b|* doesn't need anything beyond what it does now at the moment, but could see how a nicer s-exp form might make it easier to add more output formats at some point 10:41:05 esrap looks interesting and more practical than Meta 10:41:24 I've also implemented some PEG parsers, one of those, metapeg, also inherits from the Meta tradition (I think it's the same Meta) 10:44:06 |3b|: Can I try some things with the code and then get back to you later? 10:45:29 *|3b|* makes no guarantee of being awake at any particular time, but otherwise has no objection 10:45:58 cool. 10:53:47 -!- chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.89.209.227] has quit [Quit: chenqisu] 10:55:04 chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.89.209.227] has joined #lisp 10:55:08 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:38 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 10:57:06 ejbs` [~user@h-202-145.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 10:57:23 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-228-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:42 -!- chenqisu [~Thunderbi@113.89.209.227] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:58:54 -!- ejbs [~user@h-138-224.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:59:04 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:19 -!- roadt [~roadt@114.96.135.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:11 roadt [~roadt@114.96.135.87] has joined #lisp 11:00:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:01:46 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:02:09 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:03:22 *|3b|* pushes some uncommitted changes to 3bmd, mostly just an extension for definition lists 11:04:04 -!- nilsi__ [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:13 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:06:14 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:18 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 11:12:08 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:03 -!- roadt [~roadt@114.96.135.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:17 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.229.209] has joined #lisp 11:14:31 roadt [~roadt@114.96.135.87] has joined #lisp 11:17:20 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:18:34 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:20:22 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 11:23:46 leoc [~leoc.git@p5480AF46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:23:50 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:23:50 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 11:24:11 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-13.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:34 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-31.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:27:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:28:13 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has joined #lisp 11:29:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:33:08 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:33:22 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:33:22 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:33:48 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 11:34:06 no1 [~user@109.175.27.246] has joined #lisp 11:34:07 jute [~Thunderbi@31.212.107.98] has joined #lisp 11:37:56 andrewvos [~andrewvos@ec2-50-17-160-197.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:13 Kind of feel like learning lisp. Are there any online kind of tutor things that aren't terrible? 11:38:31 minion: tell andrewvos about pcl 11:38:31 andrewvos: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 11:39:37 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@31.212.107.98] has quit [Quit: jute] 11:39:38 adeht: I was thinking something more like http://tryruby.org/levels/1/challenges/0 11:40:18 andrewvos: not that I know of 11:41:28 adeht: Thanks. 11:41:36 andrewvos: http://davazp.net/jscl/jscl.html 11:41:37 adeht: What's the most commonly used web framework? 11:42:35 If I had to guess, I'd say restas. 11:42:36 andrewvos: I've no data but I suspect many just build their own on top of hunchentoot and cl-who/yaclml/html-template/cl-emb etc. 11:42:52 I agree with adeht. 11:42:52 andrewvos: RESTAS, check out Clack/Caveman too 11:43:40 *Xach* mostly uses hunchentoot and html-template 11:43:52 Xach: been using it lately as well 11:44:22 That looks cool (hunchentoot) 11:45:16 andrewvos: RESTAS is built upon hunchentoot 11:45:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 11:46:57 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:47:27 Thanks ejbs` 11:48:27 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:48:38 d11wtq [~chris@124-148-163-108.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:49:05 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-93.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:51:23 -!- fogus|gone [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:53:20 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.242.60] has joined #lisp 11:54:11 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:02:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:02:55 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-31.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:03:08 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.160.222.240] has joined #lisp 12:03:29 mooglenorph [~marco@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 12:04:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:04:59 Hi, I want to do a simple curses-like interface for a couple of my lisp scripts. 12:05:25 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.194.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:05:26 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 12:05:28 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:05:33 latest cl-ncurses is from 2007, am I better off using FFI "raw" or grabbing cl-ncurses from quicklisp? 12:05:50 mooglenorph, there's another curses library that's updated, but I forgot the name 12:06:00 mooglenorph: there is also cl-charms, but I don't know if it's better or just newer. 12:07:10 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:12 Yuuhi [benni@pD9F98472.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:51 I have not yet seen anyone share an application or toy that uses either. I don't know if that means people don't use it or don't share their work or I'm just not paying attention. 12:09:38 I thought https://bitbucket.org/eeeickythump/cl-dormouse was interesting, though it may need a bit of tweaking 12:10:09 KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.237.249] has joined #lisp 12:10:29 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-120-146-70-87.lns9.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:36 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:13:20 adeht: eeickythump has a lot of cool libs 12:13:54 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:55 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-63.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:18:14 rudi_ [~rudi@1x-193-157-248-94.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:20:01 ejbs: yes, looks like it 12:20:04 I could not get libtcod installed and that has stalled getting related libraries into Quicklisp. 12:20:09 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:21:33 _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:05 These look like good suggestions, thanks... cl-charms is indeed newer, and uses cffi 12:23:31 Heh cl-dormouse binds a library that is mostly for roguelikes. I've been meaning to try building one of those too. 12:23:39 Nifty 12:23:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:29 Xach: I just tried building it from scratch, seems to work 12:25:54 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-160-154.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:26:31 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:24 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-160-57.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:00 -!- ejbs` is now known as ejbs 12:33:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:34:09 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-42-198.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:31 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@186.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 12:34:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:35:19 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:36:12 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:36:17 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 12:42:12 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:52 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 12:44:52 adeht: Can you make me a debian 6 compatible .deb? :) 12:45:16 Xach: I use archlinux :) 12:45:58 -!- roadt [~roadt@114.96.135.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:51:05 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 12:52:19 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-197-102.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:54:25 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:56:02 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 12:57:03 -!- ASau` [~user@p5797F7CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:57:36 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-55-128.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:58:23 ASau` [~user@p5797F7CA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:00:30 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-63.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:00:44 milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 13:04:40 *Xach* finally gets it built 13:04:47 josemanuel [~josemanue@186.206.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:06:22 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754213.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:06:24 -!- milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:11:23 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:11:43 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:07 -!- walter|rtn [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:15:27 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 13:16:40 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:17:14 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:21:20 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-147-121.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:22:46 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-137-51.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:23:32 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 13:24:55 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8696be.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:03 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:28:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:28:38 hi 13:29:07 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:30:29 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298C83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:32:51 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:06 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:35:24 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:54 wow. (funcall (compile nil (parse 'copy "COPY table-name at postgresql://dim:@/dbname FROM '/tmp/foo.csv'"))) 13:42:07 I'm discovering what pjb did propose me to do for that problem 13:42:12 and I'm like. wow. 13:42:43 I guess there's nothing news for you guys, I just wanted to share the wow ;) 13:42:56 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:44 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:49:07 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.107] has joined #lisp 13:50:08 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-019-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:50:18 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:06 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-231-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:54:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:55:25 -!- Yuuhi [benni@pD9F98472.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:55:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:42 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:59:06 Do you guys know of a good Graphviz library for Lisp? 13:59:21 Not one that implements Graphviz functionality, just one that provides a Lispy API for Graphviz 13:59:29 roadt [~roadt@114.96.135.87] has joined #lisp 14:02:21 Which parts of graphviz? I've heard of a few libraries to write out the graph definition files, eg cl-dot 14:03:14 The dot part, exactly. cl-dot you say? Gonna check it out 14:03:53 There's at least one more, the name escapes me. 14:07:23 this one? http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-graph/documentation/cl-graph-package/index.html 14:08:08 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-uvmxhjsvnhzzacsp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:35 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:10:11 nilsi__ [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:11 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:28 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:04 -!- ejbs [~user@h-202-145.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:17:06 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:09 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 14:19:43 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:21:07 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 14:21:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:24:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:25:21 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:56 minion: memo for ejbs: I have some code to generate dot files in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/graphviz 14:26:56 Remembered. I'll tell ejbs when he/she/it next speaks. 14:27:19 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 14:27:55 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:28:17 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 14:28:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:29:41 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:48 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.249.252] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:30:09 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.249.252] has joined #lisp 14:30:47 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:53 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:31:48 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 14:31:51 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 14:33:40 dim: here, your parse function seems to return a defun. But it could just return a progn expression with just the body inside (or use a function parse-sql-expression). So that you could call it from a reader macro to read the sql eg. between { and }, so that you can write (let ((amount 100) (owner "pjb")) {select balance from accounts where owner = $owner} {insert into accounts (balance) values $amount where where owner = $owner}) 14:35:21 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:23 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:28 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:36:29 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:42 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 14:37:28 Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has joined #lisp 14:37:38 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:40 @echo a 14:38:38 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:18 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:31 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:46 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:47 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@host148-131-static.28-87-b.business.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:19 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-137-51.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 14:45:22 pjb: good idea, thanks, does not apply though 14:46:12 I'm not reading a real SQL string, but some grammar that looks like one and adds client side processing 14:46:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:37 and the string to parse is only known at run-time 14:46:58 I guess I need to use compile in that case, and thus to produce lambda forms 14:47:34 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 14:47:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:48:48 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-108-48-74-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:40 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 14:52:56 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 14:53:12 klrr [~klrr@88.129.148.162] has joined #lisp 14:59:05 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-82-211.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:42 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.100.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:59:43 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:00:46 dim: yes, if it's a run-time string. It's good. 15:01:12 ejbs [~user@h-138-224.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:01:15 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:15 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:51 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:23 miql_ [~miql@ip72-201-117-173.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:35 The Boston Lisp dinner was pretty great. Sorry you couldn't make it. 15:02:53 all you 390 people on the channel? 15:03:12 jute [~Thunderbi@31.212.107.98] has joined #lisp 15:03:38 At most 389 of them didn't make it, surely? Well, 390 now that someone else joined... 15:03:53 I, for one, did not go... 15:03:53 ejbs, memo from pjb: I have some code to generate dot files in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/graphviz 15:07:30 Statistically you probably didn't go. 15:08:16 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:08:41 Xach: how many did attend? Approximately 15:08:45 Seven. 15:09:47 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@31.212.107.98] has quit [Quit: jute] 15:09:54 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:10:36 exactly seven 15:10:55 Also approximately seven, with an error margin of zero. 15:10:55 without a fractional component 15:11:02 -!- agumonkey [~agu@101.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:11:08 Sounds cozy 15:11:11 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:16 no partial attendees participated 15:11:20 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Quit: checkity check out.] 15:12:47 is common lisp the most programable programming lanugage? 15:12:51 how so? 15:12:52 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.94] has joined #lisp 15:12:58 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 15:13:02 Maybe, who knows? 15:13:13 klrr: no, it's c++ :) 15:13:33 i dont know c++ only C 15:13:36 Also note that the more people that you know to have attended, the less probable it is that any given other person attended. 15:13:39 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-137-51.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:14:16 Are you sure that Forth isn't the most programmable programming language? I mean, it's dead easy to write a small Forth system from scratch... 15:14:37 forth==forthran? 15:14:41 forthan? 15:15:04 klrr: Wut, no... Forth is Forth 15:15:16 i have a friend which is doing his PHD studies in Physics, he use forthan :D he should switch to Julia :P 15:15:19 forth is not fortran, :) 15:15:21 im a haskeller 15:15:32 im a haskeller 15:15:33 im a haskeller 15:15:36 milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 15:15:37 sry 15:15:52 puts "hello world" <-- the prettiest ;) 15:15:59 ruby? 15:16:02 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:16:04 tcl 15:16:16 Ruby 15:16:19 xD 15:16:32 i will learn Clojure after ive learned haskell more 15:16:38 LISP is awesome! 15:16:41 :D 15:16:53 I wouldn't want to use LISP these days. 15:16:54 A lot of brackets though :/ 15:16:54 Someone sounds very excited... 15:17:18 Java is best language 15:17:46 *ejbs* is confused about why we're talking about Java and Haskell in #lisp 15:18:10 cause im the official off-topic idiot of freenode :D 15:18:20 unoffficial* 15:18:28 official unofficial* 15:18:37 Please go away. 15:18:50 NO 15:18:57 Wow. 15:21:15 Doesn't this channel have some kind of moderation? 15:21:23 Yep. 15:21:26 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:21:28 dont ban me ill stop :x 15:21:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 15:21:42 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 15:22:00 it's for the best 15:22:17 sykopomp: what is ? 15:22:30 nothing yet 15:22:40 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:22:51 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:31 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:25:06 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:18 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 15:26:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754213.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:05 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.249.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:35 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:29:06 -!- rudi_ [~rudi@1x-193-157-248-94.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 15:29:55 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.162] has joined #lisp 15:30:10 -!- nilsi__ [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:00 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 15:31:22 hmm I'm defining all my string constants with defparamater, coz of SBCL warning on non-EQ'ess 15:31:29 -!- arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 15:31:37 and concerned its taking finite resource (binding indexes) 15:31:46 is there commonly acceptable alternative? 15:32:06 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-31-79.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:12 all I came up with is (defcostant blah (symbol-string (intern "the string"))) 15:32:17 i think the alternative is not to be concerned? 15:32:18 symbol-name 15:32:22 is that a real issue? 15:32:31 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:33 It's not taking up TLS indexes, DEFPARAMETER sets the global value, a TLS index is only allocated when you do a special (dynamic) binding. 15:32:52 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.237.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:32:57 You may also be interested in SBCL's DEFCONSTANT-EQX, which allows you to set your equality predicate. 15:33:00 -!- milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:33:14 but we still only can have like 8000 total specials in an image, or is it much larger then I thought? 15:33:45 "only" 15:33:51 If you don't use LET, LET*, PROGV, or name the symbol in a lambda list, it doesn't count. 15:34:00 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-160-57.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:34:09 ah ok.. I thought it allocates binding index at special time 15:34:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:34:18 No, it's allocated lazily. 15:34:19 I looked at it once, but must have forgotten 15:34:27 thanks, then its non-issue 15:34:55 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 15:34:58 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jqsygrudnkagntym] has joined #lisp 15:35:02 8000 total in toplevel/global space or also in local scope? 15:35:11 Though I have a tree that allocates the index when you COMPILE a binding for the symbol or when you LOAD a FASL with a compiled function that binds the symbol. 15:35:40 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 15:35:43 ejbs: It's a limit on TLS indexes, which are not garbage collected and are a non-renewable resource. 15:36:04 If you're doing a lexical binding, it doesn't matter, only dynamic (special) bindings matter. 15:36:23 PROGV is particularly nasty in this respect. 15:36:23 milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 15:36:37 And it only matters for threaded SBCL. 15:36:48 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:49 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:02 nyef: Ah, alright. 15:38:02 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 15:38:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:24 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 The limit might-or-might-not be higher on 32-bit systems than on 64-bit systems. It's been a while since I looked at that part of the code. 15:39:06 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon144.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:39:31 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 15:39:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:42:17 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-132-146.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:38 -!- wuyun [~wuyun@50.2.64.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:49:05 i'd actually still like to use (symbol-name (intern "string")) trick, is there anything unportable about it? 15:49:27 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 15:49:48 rather then doing +sbcl -sbcl for defconstant-eqx and who know which other implementations have same analness about constants 15:50:18 reason is it feels weird calling something that is constant a paramater, especially since things break if one will change it 15:51:14 maxm-: one portable trick is to do something like (unless (boundp 'var) (defconstant var "foo")) 15:51:41 I think that would make me retch less than (symbol-name (intern "string")) 15:52:34 now there is man serious about programming style, if it affects him bodily :-) 15:53:05 *maxm-* can't type tyday 15:53:59 defconstant-eqx can break in surprising ways when you don't fully control how code is compiled and loaded. 15:54:13 froemern [~froemern@p57AD6DD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:54:51 -!- froemern [~froemern@p57AD6DD8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:41 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@108-70-143-173.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:57:08 hmm (defconstant stuff (if (boundp 'stuff) stuff "constant")) also works 15:57:33 hello 15:57:53 I want to explore lisp.. anyone know of a decent tutorial. 15:58:33 wuyun [~wuyun@50.2.64.61] has joined #lisp 15:58:53 minion: tell nug700 about PCL 15:58:53 nug700: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:59:30 thanks. 16:00:02 That could stand to be updated as 11 April 2005 is no longer very recent. 16:00:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:00:38 ckoch786 [~cory@108-70-143-173.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:15 nug700: Do you know any other programming languages? 16:01:17 s/as of/since/ ? 16:01:22 yes\ 16:01:45 nug700: Ok, then you probably won't have any problems with PCL. Check out Land of Lisp too 16:02:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:02:24 interesting 16:02:33 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.24] has joined #lisp 16:02:56 -!- lukas_ is now known as Guest64347 16:03:17 nug700: also, right column of lisp.reddit.com has other good resources/books 16:03:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:04:18 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:05:11 leo2007 [~leo@119.161.133.157] has joined #lisp 16:05:51 maxm-: it is unspecified whether symbol-name returns a fresh string or not. 16:06:07 maxm-: therefore there's no guarantee that defconstant will be satisfied. 16:06:53 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 16:07:11 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:07:15 -!- lonjil is now known as bik1230 16:08:24 pjb: ah tricky 16:08:31 maxm-: The constraints on defconstant are there to let the compiler inline the value. (eq (load-time-value +str+) +str+) should be true, but if it is not, is it a problem for your program? Do you need otherwise a inlined (length +str+), will that give you an edge? Or an (aref +str+ i)? 16:08:41 pjb: i like teh one I pasted last the best 16:08:51 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:51 IMO, there's really no point in using a constant there. 16:09:02 -!- bik1230 is now known as lonjil 16:09:06 Using defparameter is good. 16:09:49 yea it was more of a small stupid thing that bugged me for a while, this discussion gotten the itch scratched 16:09:58 maxm-: yes, testing boundp is good. 16:10:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 16:10:11 You could wrap your own macro for that. 16:10:27 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:11:32 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 16:11:40 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:12:46 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:04 maxm-: further, (defconstant +str+ (make-string 3)) (setf (aref +str+ 0) #\A) is valid: nothing says the object bound to the constant variable cannot be mutated. Only that the binding to the variable is constant: it's always the same object. In clear, what the compiler can inline, it's the address of the mutable object, not the mutable object itself. 16:13:38 So really, I think you should avoid defconstant on anything else than numbers, character and symbols. 16:13:56 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:14:35 -!- ckoch786___ [~quassel@108-70-143-173.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:15:22 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 16:15:40 -!- wuyun [~wuyun@50.2.64.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:51 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:18:03 And the occasional immutable object with a MAKE-LOAD-FORM method, preferably either a singleton or with interning semantics. 16:18:25 k0001 [~k0001@host67.190-138-117.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:18:31 CLIM +NOWHERE+ and +EVERYWHERE+ regions are a perfect example here, as is +IDENTITY-TRANSFORMATION+. 16:18:56 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 16:18:58 (The CLIM II spec even requires that they be defined as constants.) 16:19:42 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jqsygrudnkagntym] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:21:39 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 16:21:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:22:36 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-dtalnhcvxstzykly] has joined #lisp 16:23:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:23:32 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 16:24:15 bitonic [~user@176.27.229.121] has joined #lisp 16:25:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:25:49 Another example of where I might like to use DEFCONSTANT is with GUIDs. Since any reasonable implementation of GUIDs for FFI purposes would make it so that any two GUIDs boxed as lisp objects that have the same underlying bits would be EQ (so that you can EQL-specialize on them), they should be fine for DEFCONSTANT. 16:26:28 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:27:04 Yes, they're essentially numbers. 16:28:02 pnpuff [~YBCO@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:29:01 Sure, but you'd want them to have type information associated with them, along with identity. 16:30:21 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 16:30:31 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 16:30:52 -!- pnpuff [~YBCO@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:31:23 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-223-236-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:32:00 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:32:16 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:34:04 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:08 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:36:28 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-42-198.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:37:57 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:37:57 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 16:43:39 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:47 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:49 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:43:49 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:44:32 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:43 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:45:39 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:06 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:18 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:50:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:53:00 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 16:54:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 16:56:51 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 16:56:56 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:50 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:26 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:02:29 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 17:04:54 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:05:48 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:07:42 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:07:51 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 17:07:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-0-130.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:09:12 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8696be.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:09:33 This is the hack I was describing at the boston lisp meeting last night http://enthusiasm.cozy.org/archives/2013/05/plot-window 17:11:14 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:12:09 Ooh. That's kindof neat. 17:12:12 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-241-253.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:12:26 Now, if we could have a link to that Japanese s-expression C thing... 17:14:27 bhyde: good stuff 17:14:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:15:01 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-74-67.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 17:16:01 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 17:17:22 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:19:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:24:02 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:26:08 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:26:14 obviously the approach used in plot-window could be extended to any javascript widget, and there are lots of those 17:26:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:10 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:27:55 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:28:27 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:24 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:31:26 bhyde: nice 17:31:39 I'm more into d3js for data visualisation nowadays, but still ;) 17:31:47 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 17:32:27 d3js  hm. 17:32:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:23 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o fe[nl]ix 17:33:31 bhyde: indeed, nice... 17:34:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-106.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:15 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:14 d3js has only 30+ tutorial pages 17:36:33 *bhyde* thinks the javascript ecosystem is out of control 17:36:42 nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 17:36:43 why is that a bad thing? 17:36:43 ckoch786_ [~quassel@ip-64-134-175-119.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:50 so out of control, people talk in #lisp about it! 17:38:23 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 17:38:41 is returning variable sized VALUES bad practice? harder to understand but i somehow keep using them! 17:39:12 it can be slower 17:39:24 nan-: I don't think it's something bad 17:39:26 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 17:39:45 stassats: slower how? 17:40:01 slower as in taking more time 17:40:42 hmm. why does a '"functional style" allow code re-use'? (D3's wording, not mine) 17:40:42 Variable-sized VALUES as in multiple VALUES forms with varying number of parameters, or (APPLY #'VALUES ) ? 17:40:53 isn't it just good design which allows that? 17:41:11 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:18 nyef: i assume (if x 1 (values x y)) 17:41:19 nyef: (values a b c d...) 17:41:58 on sbcl, (if x (values 1 nil) (values x y)) will be more efficient 17:42:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:42:20 sellout-1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:39 for example i have algorithms computing closest-features to a point. some returns (values :point a) the other returns (values :quad a b c d) or (values :poly points) 17:42:41 How much more efficient? And don't forget that you can communicate information by the number of values returned, even if the last values are still NIL. 17:42:48 is there an efficient way to implement the spaceship operator in sbcl? 17:42:53 -!- milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:43:41 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:44:10 nan-: That somehow seems to be a very weird set of return conventions. 17:44:59 Well, they work. But one could also just return (make-point :x x :y y) (make-quad :a a :b b :c c :d d) (make-poly :points points) etc. 17:45:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-213.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:54 nyef: marginally 17:46:14 but code-size and run-time are more efficient 17:46:56 Mmm. Since there are the same number of return values, the compiler only has to emit one RETURN-MULTIPLE after joining the LVARs? 17:47:24 known values don't use return-multiple 17:47:57 Right, of course. 17:48:00 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d122243.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:48:12 It's been a little while since I've messed with that, and I'm tired. Mea culpa. 17:48:22 pjb: i tried that and it is clearer but then i had to do tons of packing unpacking 17:48:33 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d137231.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:03 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:05 nan-: why not just return lists? 17:49:06 nan-: or patch the json code. 17:49:19 nan-: or just use hash-table from the start? 17:49:55 the code generated by variable number of return values looks quite strange 17:50:00 linuxos [~linuxos@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:08 what with MOV ECX, 2 CMP RCX, 2 17:50:51 oh this is at the heart of a collision-contact-detection algorithm, i know it is maybe premature opt. but hash-tables lists... sounds scary :) 17:50:52 later it does MOV ECX, 4 and jumps to that CMP 17:51:22 and it will do nothing but complicate it 17:51:24 so, it's also slower because sbcl is being silly 17:51:27 milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 17:52:13 -!- ckoch786_ [~quassel@ip-64-134-175-119.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:05 stassats: Odd... something to do with defaulting register parameters? 17:53:37 i guess that is coming from different VOPs, so it looks that weird 17:54:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:54:22 pjb: patch the json code? i am lost :) 17:55:10 nan: so how do you bind the results? m-v-b with max-values variables that are overloaded to mean different things or do you turn it into a list (which kinda defeats m-vs) 17:55:24 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:56:04 adeht: Actually, if you do the list thing, then destructure it, SBCL can do so without consing up an actual list. 17:56:09 nan-: yes. Obviously this library doesn't do what you want. So either you change it to do what you want, or you rewrite one that does what you want. 17:56:24 (or you find another one that may do what you want, there are several json libs). 17:56:28 adeht: i do (m-v-b (type arg1 arg2 arg3 arg4) (cf ..) since caller knows what kind of return values can a "TYPE" have, acts accordingly 17:56:42 what's the best way to compare s-exp forms, like lisp source code that I produce at run time? (for unit testing) equalp? 17:56:51 nyef: wouldn't that be equiv to the m-v-b approach? 17:57:21 apparently not equalp ;) 17:57:25 pjb: i think you are trying to respond someone else :) 17:57:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:57:44 nan: so the former.. or did I misunderstand? 17:58:08 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:11 nan-: Yes, and from another channel too. I need some rest. 17:58:17 dim: the best way is not to compare 17:58:54 adeht: former yes 17:58:56 shite, can't adjust tab heights.....in beirc.... 17:59:03 well I have a parser that produces s-exps, I want to write unit-tests, what do you propose? 17:59:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:59:37 adeht: Yes and no. M-V-B burns a specific number of variables that are bound and defaulted immediately. M-V-L plus destructuring keeps the list as an "unknown-values" block on the stack, just as it was returned from the function. There's a small tradeoff somewhere, but I'm having trouble thinking through the parameters right now. 18:00:01 i put a newline format char in the formattter for the tab name, and so the width of my server receiver tab pane just halfed or more, but the expected second line is below it's width, so unvisible, and i don't know howto adjust 18:00:16 meh 18:00:29 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 18:00:30 (loop for (expected expression) in '(((some result) (parse "some result")) ((some other result) (parse "something else"))) for result = (eval expression) do (assert (equal expected result () "expected=~S got=~S for ~S" expected result experssion))) 18:00:44 dim^ 18:01:28 dim  probably worth learning 5am, (though it's swap in eos as a replacement) http://cliki.net/FiveAM 18:01:46 it was always causing override's to the max-width arg of the application-frame or that of the receiver interner.... 18:02:42 dim: http://www.lisphacker.com/codex/004-parsing-smalltalk.txt and http://www.lisphacker.com/codex/smalltalk-parser-examples.tgz might be interesting in this context. 18:02:55 now width stays as specified (some constant), wonder why the tab name field does not get adjusted tho 18:02:57 dim: I suppose you can have something like a destructuring-case for m-v 18:03:18 bhyde: yeah 5am is on my todo list 18:03:19 dim: using nyef's idea it could be pretty easy to implement 18:03:20 -!- Blice [~blice@alrig.ht] has left #lisp 18:04:08 and i added both horiz and vertical scroll-bars to the server-receivers now.... 18:04:11 adeht: the forms are like (lambda (&key ...) (funcall ...)), tree not lists 18:04:37 pjb: you're evaluating the forms here right? 18:04:51 I don't want to do that in the unit tests 18:04:53 dim: erm, I meant to address nan :) 18:05:06 oh 18:05:40 dim: I think I have a newer version of that code, actually, somewhere... 18:05:42 dim: well, one way or another. You can use a deftest macro that will do the same. 18:05:48 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 18:06:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:07:17 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:38 ... Looks like the tests are a bunch of (deftest (parse-method-definition "") ()). 18:07:44 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 18:07:48 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:07:50 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:22 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:16 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0dc202.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:05 another lil question: maybe because of my former language but i got a habit of doing things like (let ((a (/ var 3))) (values a a)), should i continue or drop being a smartass and just do (values (/ var 3) (/ var 3))? *cheers 18:11:31 It's not a bad habit. 18:11:49 davazp [~user@31.200.185.35] has joined #lisp 18:12:09 pjb: nice to know thanks! 18:12:18 It avoids relying on the compiler to do common-subexpression-elimination, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Plus it means that you don't need to do the CSE yourself to see that they're always the same. 18:12:35 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 18:12:55 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboa202.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:14:30 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-197-52.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:14:51 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298C83.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:05 bhyde: eos is not a complete replacement 18:16:07 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon144.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:16:26 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:17:32 last time i used five am i was sad what it depended upon, maybe my opinions or it have changed in the meantime 18:18:02 last question of the day if you don't mind :) because of some macros i end up having chains like (let ((a k)) (let ((b a)) (let ((c b)) ...code using only c...) what does that mean to a decent compiler? (let ((c k)) ...code..) maybe? 18:18:50 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:02 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:19:28 bhyde: yes, I removed the dependency on arnesi 18:20:13 nan-: modulo special binding, yes. 18:21:08 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:00 pkhuong: modulo i am guessing means *except* here? 18:22:07 fe[nl]ix: your my hero  maybe I'll give 5am another try at some point 18:22:44 nan-: meaning special bindings make everything more complicated. 18:23:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:23:40 so CL does not include a tree-list comparing operator. too bad. will do that later. 18:23:52 pkhuong: variables in my question was lexical. thanks! 18:23:53 dim: there's tree-equal 18:23:54 I guess it's easy enough and already done N times 18:24:06 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 18:24:35 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 18:24:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:25:36 tree-equal does not help here, not even with :test 'equalp 18:26:21 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.162] has joined #lisp 18:28:05 bhyde: do you not read planet lisp ? I announced that more than a year ago 18:28:31 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:33 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:29:14 i probably read it then, but at the time i didn't care  "he thinks he's happy" 18:29:49 :D 18:29:59 bhyde: what are all those black boxes in my screen all the time? 18:30:26 -!- milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:31:33 ehu: I suppose it's the ellipsis character 18:32:02 ok. well, I'd like to note there are those in this channel who can't read it. 18:32:12 (and that includes me) 18:32:41 pregnant pauses? 18:32:51 bhyde? 18:33:33 if you stick to ascii, my client will show all you have to say/write/talk about 18:33:54  18:34:10 ehu: please get a unicode font 18:34:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:35:20 fe[nl]ix: well, that solves *my* problem, but I'm using only a very popular Windows client... So, that doesn't solve *the* problem. 18:36:02 the problem is solved by using a Unicode font 18:36:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:36:07 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:36:10 ehu: careful, you're attracting the freenode-is-for-open-sauce people. 18:36:18 hahaha 18:37:20 pkhuong: hmm. well, I'm all for that, but do think I can also use whatever client works best on my platform... 18:37:31 (and no, I can't switch: dayjob depends on it) 18:37:56 you can script it to replace these chars with "..." :) 18:38:47 ehu: as of 7.1 mIRC should support unicode 18:39:24 My xterm does not have a unicode font. :~( 18:39:27 and for stuff in order languages.. replace with (google-translate :from :auto :to :english) 18:39:32 *otehr 18:39:34 *other :( 18:40:02 adeht: that defeats the point. my current font replaces it with black boxes. Tried a few other fonts they replace with other items, including '...' 18:40:16 but it still doesn't show the actual character. 18:40:36 ehu: huh? but the character is still the ellipsis character, just not shown as such 18:40:46 is it not? 18:40:56 it's indeed not showing it. 18:41:13 and by Xach's admission, so it isn't for him. 18:41:19 ejbs` [~user@h-199-184.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:41:29 which supports my point: i'm not the only one and ascii is best shown for everyone. 18:42:08 -!- Ue [~Ue@unaffiliated/ue] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:42:51 -!- ejbs [~user@h-138-224.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.198.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:43:13 ehu: personally I agree.. but then again I think all "public discussion on the internet" should be in english :) 18:43:54 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-165-98.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:17 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has 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snowman and his friends. 18:54:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 18:54:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:56:51 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.242.60] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 18:58:26 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@netblock-68-183-229-245.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 19:00:27 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:02:15 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:02:52 axion [~axion@lngdnd-ai02-74-214-211-129.utma.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:00 -!- Guest64347 [~lukas@194.228.13.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03:22 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d8696be.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:03:33 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 19:04:06 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit 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255 seconds] 19:30:11 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-165-98.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:30:31 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 19:34:38 given (destructuring-bind (&key a (b 1) (c 3)) (list :a 1) (list :a a :b b :c c)) is there a way to get the result list dynamically, without having to manually list each element? 19:34:54 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:35:02 result list? 19:35:05 -!- _d3f [~gnu@ip-static-94-242-252-66.as5577.net] has quit [Quit: !] 19:35:14 (destructuring-bind (&whole whole &key a (b 1) (c 3)) (list :a 1) whole) ? 19:36:13 I'll retry then, because I tried before asking and messed it up somehow 19:36:28 I did try &whole and &allow-other-keys 19:36:33 that's maybe a little too much 19:36:34 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:48 whole will return only the supplied arguments 19:37:07 so that's not what I want, too bad 19:37:18 why do you need that anyhow? 19:37:19 nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-134-103.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:23 well I can maintain both lists, but it's not looking idiomatic lisp, that much repetition 19:38:19 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.40.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:28 context: parsing a home-made command syntax. the parser bubbles up a keyword list as it goes, then I consolidate with default values 19:38:44 (list (getf :a list default-a) (getf :b list default-b)) 19:39:09 (destructuring-bind (&key type user password (host "localhost") port dbname table-name) (apply #'append uri) (list :type type :user user :password password :host host :port (or port *default-postgresql-port*) :dbname dbname :table-name table-name)) 19:39:13 that's what I'm using now 19:39:15 it's ok I guess 19:39:50 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-19-132-146.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:06 uri is like '((:type :mysql) nil (:host "localhost") (:dbname "db")) 19:40:07 why is PORT special? 19:40:25 because the parser reports nil when it's not been given by the user 19:40:47 and the destructuring-bind would happily keep it nil then, when I want to force a default value in that case 19:40:56 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:58 the other parameters can be nil when not given 19:41:25 this whole thing looks sketchy 19:41:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:41:49 "whole", as much you showed 19:42:15 yeah 19:42:35 well I'll get back to it when I have more context (that is, when the parser is actually plugged to the application API) 19:42:44 thanks for advices meanwhile ;) 19:42:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:46:25 -!- gvz [gvz@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has quit [] 19:46:35 two- [~1@67.23.193.215] has joined #lisp 19:48:12 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:24 -!- miql_ 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[~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:38 weirdo [sthalik@kronstadt.misaki.pl] has joined #lisp 20:10:45 stassats, hey i managed to build commonqt on 'doze 20:10:55 stassats, do you support qt designer, the horror, the horror? 20:11:43 not beyound what qt supports 20:12:06 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 20:12:40 stassats, so, can designer .ui be loaded to smoke... or not? 20:12:54 either way, kudos for doing it 20:13:42 QUiLoader can load it 20:14:18 and i'm only maintaining it, _8david is the original author 20:15:02 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-223-236-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:15:13 i've tried 4 different langs - scala, f#, python, now lisp 20:15:21 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: brain damage] 20:15:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:15:27 python via pypy came closest - was able to load binary data via declarative api 20:16:02 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-231-211.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:16:19 so yeah, this is a real lifesaver 20:16:53 protist [~protist@236.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 20:18:12 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-44.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:18:43 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:19:08 is there something similar to fmap or not? 20:19:16 nope 20:20:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:21:22 you could do (defgeneric fmap (function value) (:method (function (value sequence)) (map (class-of value) function value))) and so on, i guess 20:21:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:22:03 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-197-52.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:54 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:26:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:34 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754213.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:29:17 Bike, TYPE-OF 20:29:49 Why? 20:31:09 probably right 20:34:07 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host67.190-138-117.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:34:55 weirdo: TYPE-OF is permitted to return something dreadfully not valid as an argument to MAP. 20:35:15 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:35:18 and class-of returns a class, whereas map expects a type specifier.. 20:35:24 which a class is 20:35:33 apologies 20:35:35 ... At least, I think it might be. 20:35:40 Hrm. 20:36:00 why is CLOS boilerplate so... short? i can't pretend i'm doing real work! 20:36:15 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:36:21 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-241-253.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:09 Ah, the problem with using TYPE-OF is that it can require that FUNCTION return a result which is the same type as its argument, depending on how bloody-minded your implementation is with respect to TYPE-OF and MAP. 20:37:14 stassats: didn't know that.. nice 20:37:39 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:22 DoctorDude [~Jake@unaffiliated/doctordude] has joined #lisp 20:38:48 -!- protist [~protist@236.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:39:24 i'd rather use (map-into (copy-seq sequence) function sequence) (which is not that nice on lists) 20:39:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:39:55 stassats, at least it doesn't cons thunks like there's no tomorrow (pertaining to original question) 20:40:08 but i'd rather not do that at all, it's easier just to write what you mean, instead of leaving it guessing 20:41:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:41:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:37 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:42:32 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.185.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:44:15 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:30 Bike: so why exists fmap in Haskell if even in that programming language (like appens in CL) functions are first-class "entities"? There is no separation between functions and "functions objects/functors", so maybe CL choice os not implement fmap is the most correct. Am I wrong? 20:44:48 s/os/of 20:44:49 "what?" 20:44:52 I can't really understand what you're saying. 20:45:24 Also, haskell functors aren't functions, generally. 20:45:41 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:42 haskell is built on burritos, CL isn't, what's better, you decide! 20:46:07 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-221-115.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:17 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:06 -!- Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-44.lightwire.co.nz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:10 -!- two- [~1@67.23.193.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:47:33 milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 20:47:34 pnpuff CL predates generic sequence types, for one :( 20:47:51 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 20:48:31 i found higher-kinded types, modules, etc, largely machinery to make the program type-check 20:48:35 mc40 [~mc@host86-148-141-128.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:40 CL equivalents don't need these 20:50:14 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:50:53 -!- milkpost_ [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:29 Bike: Do you refer to natural transformations? Why Haskell functors are not functions? Maybe I need some example to clarify my ideas. 20:51:41 try #haskell 20:51:58 functor is a class instances 20:52:10 pnpuff: you'll have nothing but trouble if you conflate haskell functors and category theoretical functors. not that ct functors are functions either. 20:52:21 weirdo: even a function? 20:52:40 pnpuff, well instance Function... LYAH for great good 20:55:27 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:56:27 nug700 [~nug700@174-19-134-90.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:34 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:57:45 -!- Mapleh [uid10029@trivialand/genius/maple] has quit [] 20:58:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-213.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 20:58:50 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-19-134-103.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:59:03 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@108-70-143-173.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:15 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:35 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:18 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 21:00:19 -!- xpoqp [~xpoqp@unaffiliated/xpoqz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:35 Fare 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