00:02:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:02:18 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:24 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937461.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:03:21 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:54 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@guestnet.franz.com] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 00:07:30 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-212-250.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:14 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:33 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:15 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 00:21:53 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ssmxfnovrhcimmcy] has joined #lisp 00:22:38 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@169.234.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 00:23:16 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 00:23:40 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:28:54 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:09 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:49 jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:37:26 xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.154] has joined #lisp 00:39:38 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:39:55 tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has joined #lisp 00:39:58 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abny249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 00:41:52 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nuclear meltdown] 00:43:39 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:48:41 dumb question: how do I concatenate a string and character together? I have (concatenate 'string "AAA" #\B "AAA") and I get an error that the character in the middle isn't a sequence 00:48:48 is there an easy way to do this? 00:49:07 you could (string #\B) there 00:49:46 ahhh! 00:49:51 works for me 00:51:01 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:57 Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.106] has joined #lisp 00:56:57 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:51 momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has joined #lisp 01:00:38 -!- agumonkey [~agu@238.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:00:39 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:14 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:04:15 -!- momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:37 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:38 -!- jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:07:04 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:27 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:11:44 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:54 -!- pierpa [~user@95.234.221.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:07 pierpa [~user@95.234.221.161] has joined #lisp 01:12:27 momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has joined #lisp 01:17:13 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.211.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:18:38 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:59 nialo: I'd bet on most implementations, (string #\b) is costlier than (list #\b). You can also use lists and vectors as arguments to concatenate. 01:21:33 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:37 mhr [60fd627c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.98.124] has joined #lisp 01:23:07 -!- momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:21 momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has joined #lisp 01:23:39 Hey guys, what is the easiest way to emulate a Lisp Machine? 01:24:09 maybe google "opengenera github" 01:24:57 wow, wasn't expecting that to be on github. thanks! 01:25:01 -!- Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@58.39.101.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:28:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-234.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:18 mhr: there are also cadr emulators. 01:30:36 which was the cooler system, cadr or genera? 01:30:47 http://www.unlambda.com/ 01:31:04 I'm just trying to try out the os with the coolest features so I can borrow and use them for my own software, you see 01:31:34 genera is more advanced, but the cadr was way cooler, since it was hardwired with real wrires: http://questier.com/Photos/200907_USA/20090731-150406_USA_Massachusetts_MIT_Museum_CADR_LISP_Machine.jpg 01:31:56 that's pretty awesome 01:32:07 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:21 hmm I see no reason why I shouldn't try out both I suppose 01:32:25 I like the sticker on the bottom right of the frame: "MOD II" :-) 01:33:35 One day I'll write a lisp from scratch, ie. bootstrapping it from assembler. And after that, one day I'll build a lisp machine hardwiring it. By hand. 01:34:04 the wires will be constructed yourself from copper ore, no doubt 01:34:38 That's for the third life. 01:34:39 and the electricity from running hamsters 01:35:06 But it's feasible: http://www.ted.com/talks/thomas_thwaites_how_i_built_a_toaster_from_scratch.html 01:35:49 Well, if I'm selected to go to Mars, and there's a breakdown of the hardware, we'll have to rebuild everything from scratch too. And hamsters will be useful, since there's less sun there. 01:35:50 pjb, have you personally used a lispm achine? 01:36:06 *lisp machine 01:36:07 mhr: yes. Eg. at ELS2011 in Lisbon. 01:36:17 you volunteered for spacex? 01:36:23 I also booted opengenera in the emulator a couple of times. 01:36:42 momo-reina: nah, I would, but I don't stand a chance to be selected. 01:37:28 pjb: that would be the ultimate, i always wished i were born in the space opera age, dad's fault for giving me scifi when i was a kid 01:37:47 pjb, this? http://www.wikicfp.com/cfp/servlet/event.showcfp?eventid=17428. Seems kinda odd at an "e-learning security" conference. What was the context? 01:37:50 Yes, scifi should be forbidden. 01:38:19 mhr: no, European Lisp Symposium. 01:38:29 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:38:39 http://www-sop.inria.fr/members/Manuel.Serrano/conferences/els13.html 01:39:39 haha oh, that makes much more sense 01:40:20 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:41:41 Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.106] has joined #lisp 01:46:07 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:51 -!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze] 01:55:27 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:12 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has joined #lisp 01:59:52 -!- mhr [60fd627c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.98.124] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:03:29 pjb: would you recommend doing SICP after PAIP or would it be redundant? 02:03:32 Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:43 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:05:10 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 02:05:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:05:33 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:21 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:15:02 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:12 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:19:59 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-30-67.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:31 tigranes [~tigranes@74.3.163.223] has joined #lisp 02:23:44 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:38 agumonkey [~agu@238.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:40 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:52 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-250.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-38.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:28:56 gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 02:30:11 -!- agumonkey [~agu@238.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:31:03 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:32:30 -!- momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:33 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:35:52 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl5-136-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:52 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:37:22 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:28 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-212-250.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:43 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:44:48 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:55 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:48:58 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-235-75.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:06 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.157.176.threembb.ie] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:50:53 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:51:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-250.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:52:22 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:55:59 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 03:00:01 when I do a variable assignment with (let ((x 10))) followed by (format t "~a~%" x) the REPL aborts because of an unbound-variable 03:00:30 is this related to scoping? 03:01:28 yes 03:01:34 let is not an assignment, it's a binding, within the body 03:01:54 try (let ((x 10)) (format t "~a~%" x)) instead 03:02:35 ah, so it works when i run that because its all in the same set of ()? 03:02:49 it's in the scope x is bound in, yes 03:03:43 assignment != binding then 03:03:55 they're not the same, no 03:04:27 so if i wanted to use x in several commands, they would all need to be in the body of the let() statement then 03:04:40 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 03:06:14 <|3b|> 'statement' implies things that aren't correct for cl, we usually call it a 'form' 03:06:21 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl5-136-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 03:06:38 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.255.32] has left #lisp 03:06:59 <|3b|> in particular with most languages that use 'statement' it means it doesn't return values, while everything in CL can return values 03:07:08 yeah, i'm trying to get the terminology down - no intending to be sloppy 03:07:21 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 03:07:22 everything is a form, once it gets passed to the evaluator, rght? 03:07:44 *|3b|* would call it a form before it gets passed to the evaluator too 03:08:41 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:08:41 the distinction between the reader and evaluator is an important one as far as i can tell 03:08:52 <|3b|> glossary of the spec describes 'form' as "any object meant to be evaluated." 03:09:15 <|3b|> right, read vs eval is another important distinction 03:09:30 the reader produces s-expressions right? 03:09:51 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:09:57 <|3b|> other way around as far as i know 03:10:06 and then the evaluator takes the s-expressions and, if they are valid, converts them into forms which are then evaluated 03:10:29 <|3b|> "s-expression" describes the text format, while evaluator operates on actual lisp objects like lists and symbols 03:11:04 <|3b|> reader takes a sequence of characters and builds lisp objects, evaluator evaluates those lisp objects 03:11:04 (read-from-string "(+ 2 4)") => (+ 2 4); (eval (read-from-string "(+ 2 4)")) => 6 03:12:31 according to the spec, the reader produces objects from a stream (which i'm assuming is text) 03:12:58 a stream is e.g. a file stream or standard input 03:13:03 right 03:13:23 read-from-string is just a convenient thing to use the reader on strings 03:13:48 the author of practical common lisp says the reader: "defines how strings of characters can be translated into Lisp objects called s-expressions." 03:14:01 How do I prepend/append a #\Newline character to a string? 03:14:22 is he saying the objects that the reader creates are s-expressions? 03:14:39 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl5-136-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:14:51 <|3b|> gmcastil: sounds like it, not sure that is technically correct though 03:15:15 yeah, i'm having a hard time making PCL jive with the spec 03:15:18 pranavrc: (concatenate 'string string (list #\Newline)) for example 03:15:27 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Quit: Segmentation Fault] 03:15:35 gmcastil: PCL is just supposed to teach you how to program, it's not a pedantic reference 03:16:13 <|3b|> 's-expressions' map pretty much directly to the actual lisp objects though 03:16:47 so, for now, think of s-expressions as objects that are produced by the reader? 03:17:16 *|3b|* would say ignore s-expressions and think about lists and symbols and such 03:17:39 Bike, ah, list. Thanks. 03:18:29 so what is the relationship between forms and s-expressions? 03:18:55 nothing you really need to focus on, probably 03:20:46 <|3b|> 'form' is a term used in the spec, 's-expression' isn't 03:21:24 ok that helps then 03:21:37 the author is using it to try and clarify things and i think its just confusing me 03:21:56 <|3b|> s-expression is the syntax using "(" ")" etc to describe the cons cells, symbols, 03:22:10 according t the spec, the reader takes a stream and produces the internal lisp object 03:22:14 <|3b|> right 03:22:48 is that internal lisp object the form that gets passed to the evaluato? 03:23:00 <|3b|> generally, yes 03:23:10 unless its a macro? 03:23:12 <|3b|> you can call the reader by hand and do other things with the results if you want 03:23:15 is that why you say 'generally'? 03:23:33 Adlai, pjb: re swank issue 03:23:47 Turned out to be ~/.swank.lisp after all 03:23:48 the evaluator can handle macros. 03:23:53 thanks for the suggestion 03:23:54 <|3b|> macros are read and evaluated just like any other code (though the details of the evaluation are different) 03:24:16 ok, so the reader would see a macro and create the macro form to pass to the evaluator? 03:24:17 <|3b|> reader-macros modify how the reader works 03:24:30 then the evaluator would expand it 03:24:31 <|3b|> reader doesn't care what it is reading. it just sees characters 03:24:36 Say, is anyone using qitab inferior-shell? 03:24:40 right 03:24:46 stream -> reader -> forms 03:24:55 <|3b|> for example when it sees the character #\( it reads a list until it sees the matching #\) 03:25:27 <|3b|> most of the syntax of CL is defined by standard reader-macros 03:26:11 it sounds like there are some subtleties that I'll get into later - is that more or less why you said 'generally'? 03:26:43 *|3b|* just meant that you don't have to pass the results of READ to the evaluator 03:27:18 ok, then stream -> reader -> form is the right way to think about the actions of the role of the reader then? 03:27:34 and ignore the authors discussion of s-exps 03:27:37 <|3b|> yeah, probably reasonable 03:27:46 ok that clarifies things quite a bit 03:28:15 then the evaluator just evaluates forms, if they're valid, and chokes if they aren't? 03:28:49 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 03:29:14 <|3b|> more or less, spec requires specific responses to some forms of invalid input 03:29:29 right - i saw the rules of evaluation in the spec 03:29:46 i'm glad someone pointed me to the hyperspec the other day - i had no idea it existed 03:29:56 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:25 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 03:31:27 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:33:41 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.242.253] has joined #lisp 03:35:07 where do lists and atoms fit into this picture? 03:37:18 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:37:42 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 03:38:51 those are just types, i.e. names for categories of values 03:39:05 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:40:02 they are types of forms? 03:41:02 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:25 clhs 3.1.2.1 03:42:25 Form Evaluation: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_aba.htm 03:43:17 where cons is cons, symbol is symbol, and self-evaluating is (and atom (not symbol)) 03:44:04 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-160-154.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:14 ok, PCL and the spec don't use the same terminology, so i think thats where i'm getting confused 03:44:26 lists are forms of type cons? 03:44:43 well, list is (or cons null) 03:44:52 nil is a symbol in CL, but it evaluates to itself 03:45:09 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:46:17 none of those three types of forms are a list, so where do lists originate from? 03:46:35 <|3b|> lists are just conses 03:46:52 so, lists are one of the products of the reader 03:47:24 this section is about input to the evaluator, not (necessary) output of the reader. 03:47:36 <|3b|> actually, lists are conses or NIL 03:48:00 Bike: oh, so not everything goes through the reader to get to the evaluator? 03:48:12 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-160-154.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:48:23 or not everything out of the reader gets fed into the evaluator 03:48:24 <|3b|> the reader macros can run arbitrary code, so the reader can produce any lisp data 03:49:03 gmcastil: for example, (eval (cons '+ (cons 4 (cons 3 nil)))) 03:49:07 <|3b|> you can evaluate things that weren't created by the reader, and you can read things without evaluating the results 03:49:49 ok, i think thats where i was getting confused then - i thought that everything followed the same path through the reader and then the evaluator 03:50:32 but it wouldn't make sense that both the reader and evaluator could work with the same objects (or does it) 03:50:42 so there must be rules for what they can and cannot work with 03:51:04 They don't necessarily work with exactly the same objects, because they're both functions that can be called anywhere by user code. 03:51:05 <|3b|> the reader just operates on streams of characters 03:51:18 <|3b|> you can evaluate streams and characters, but they just evaluate to themselves 03:52:11 so, i can pass forms directly to the evaluator then 03:53:05 Bike: yeah, i meant to say that it would seem they had to work with different objects 03:54:15 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-121-153.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:55:28 gmcastil: http://www.mat.uc.pt/~pedro/cientificos/funcional/lisp/gcl_2.html 03:56:06 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:42 thanks 03:57:19 i need to run - thanks for the help everyone, much clearer now 03:57:48 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-172-170.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:02:02 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-30-67.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:02:59 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:21 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:11:05 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 04:13:01 Chaos`Eternal [~chaos@180.174.222.20] has joined #lisp 04:26:37 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:48 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 04:28:49 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:54 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:25 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:33:32 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.255.32] has joined #lisp 04:35:53 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: alea iacta est] 04:37:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:41:19 -!- pierpa [~user@95.234.221.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:45:36 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 04:46:39 oi, does anyone know what ECASE is? I'm getting an error ""#\ fell through ECASE expresion"" 04:46:52 clhs ecase 04:46:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_case_.htm 04:47:01 thanks 04:48:16 weird how bad google is at finding about common lisp 04:48:46 PuercoPop: http://l1sp.org/ 04:50:25 *PuercoPop* nods 04:58:03 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.255.32] has left #lisp 04:58:08 PuercoPop: if you don't know about hyperspec yet: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/ 04:59:04 is there a way to inspect an object when an error has been signaled? I know I can see them with slime-inspector but # doesnt't tell me much in this case 05:00:01 -!- axion [~axion@66.231.120.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:00:11 gmcastil: I knew about it but it is not searchable, I try to use M-. and minispec.org (although it appears to be quite incomplete for now). 05:02:26 axion [~axion@66.231.120.220] has joined #lisp 05:04:38 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 05:04:48 jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:08:16 -!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze] 05:10:38 nostoi [~nostoi@122.Red-79-153-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:28 teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.81] has joined #lisp 05:15:29 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.242.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:23 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:19:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:23:27 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 05:23:58 woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 05:26:29 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:26:46 agumonkey [~agu@238.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:43 Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:40 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:44 shifty [~user@114-198-39-110.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:33:17 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 05:37:06 sdemarre [~serge@45.146-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:38:45 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:40:17 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-39-110.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:40:34 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:46 shifty [~user@114-198-39-110.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:41:23 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-39-110.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 05:42:12 naxtori [~user@114-198-39-110.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:43:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/137017 05:44:17 am i correct in saying that each time I make the function call in the loop, the value of x is bound and rebound to a different value? 05:44:32 x is bound anew each time, yes 05:44:43 what is the value in such a temporary 'assignment'? 05:45:03 you really shouldn't think of that as an assignment 05:45:13 but, usually it's to preserve the binding in a closure 05:45:54 if you just used i, the implementation might just change the same i instead of making a new binding for it each time 05:46:16 and closures over i would share the value instead of each having their own 05:47:26 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:48:48 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:50:35 i've read the definition of closures several times, and i'm still having a hard time with it - it seems like its similar to a local variable which only exists within the context that its bound in 05:51:06 a closure is just a function plus some values preserved from the scope it's defined in. 05:51:25 yeah, thanks for articulating it that way 05:51:35 the spec definition was really hard to wrap my mind around 05:51:37 a common example can be seen with (defun adder (n) (lambda (x) (+ x n))), maybe you could try it. 05:54:06 so i ran that and the repl said compiled lexical closure (:internal adder) ... 05:54:23 but i never specify a value for x 05:54:25 well i mean, see what (adder 4) is, that sort of thing. 05:54:30 shouldn't it crash 05:54:36 Why would it? 05:54:38 gmcastil: after try (funcall (adder #8r4) #o2) 05:54:38 i did - i ran (adder 10) and got that message 05:54:53 pnpuff: why the hell are you bringing octal into this 05:54:59 gmcastil: that's the return value, a closure. 05:55:12 gmcastil: like, try (funcall (adder 4) 2) 05:56:30 done - so, if i understand this right, it starts by runnin (adder 4) and then calling whatever the result of that function call was with 2 as the argument - correct? 05:56:37 yes 05:56:51 so, just running (adder 4) returned a function 05:56:58 a closure, yes 05:57:06 and then you're funcalling that with the argument 2 05:57:30 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@71-9-62-86.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 05:57:44 what makes the closure different than something like (defun adder (n) (+ 10 n))? 05:57:45 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:11 why does the code you gave me return a function, but the one i did return a number? 05:58:25 -!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze] 05:58:41 (lambda ...) of course 05:59:00 which i still don't really understand - i never specified x 05:59:17 gmcastil: bacause the function it retuned, when executed returns a number 05:59:21 Say you do (adder 4) 05:59:23 it almost seems like the function is only partialy executed 05:59:31 That's like executing (lambda (x) (+ x 4)) 05:59:39 so it is running the function with the variables in its lexical-closure and returning 05:59:48 but x isn't bound to anything 05:59:54 shouldn't that be an error? 05:59:56 Do you know what lambda is? 05:59:58 sorta 06:00:11 Not very well. 06:00:19 agreed 06:00:27 (lambda (x) (+ x 4)) evaluates to a function of one argument ("x") 06:00:27 gmcastil: maybe it helps if you try to understand (lexical) scoping first 06:00:58 gmcastil: this helped me understand it: http://letoverlambda.com/textmode.cl/guest/chap2.html#sec_3 06:01:17 a book is probably better than my ad-hoc explanation in any case 06:01:51 ok, this section on variables talks a lot about lexical scoping, so i'll come back to this example at the end 06:02:29 "a closure is a saved lexical environment" that helps a lot 06:02:38 lambda binds arguments to variables basically. 06:02:56 maybe you should just do the usual lisp thing and write an evaluator 06:06:03 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:06:12 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:07:07 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:07:33 gmcastil: in lambda calculus anonymous functions have only one input. Take a look at "curring" for multiple inputs functions. 06:07:54 pnpuff: that is not relevant 06:08:14 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 06:09:38 Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:01 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 06:10:59 flubbjlubb [~crimedisp@unaffiliated/flubbjlubb] has joined #lisp 06:11:07 gmcastil: was the answer to your question : " why does the code you gave me return a function, but the one i did return a number?" 06:11:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:13:37 "x. y. x + y" being distinct from "x. 10 + x" is not a consequence of currying conventions 06:14:56 -!- drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:29 i feel like i've read these definitions dozens of times, but i don't know what they mean 06:19:14 -!- woudshoo [~user@ironhead.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:20:00 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:20:45 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.152.65] has joined #lisp 06:22:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:24:44 gmcastil: the definitions of what? lambda, closures currying? 06:24:55 i'm ignoring the statements on currying for now 06:25:20 i'm trying to wrap my head around lexical scoping, then lambda, and then closures 06:25:37 gmcastil: you can pretty much ignore lambda calculus as well if you can't get your head wrapped around it. 06:25:42 gmcastil: that approach sounds viable 06:25:48 thanks 06:25:48 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:06 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 06:26:14 reading the documentation feels like everything is defined circularly, so its tough to know where to start 06:26:42 minion: gentle 06:26:42 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 06:26:43 gmcastil: a good choice, Bike is right in that it is not relevant for the matter at hand 06:27:05 there a problem with PCL? 06:27:08 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c24dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:14 no, but gentle might be more your speed 06:27:27 gmcastil: not at all, but it might not be your style 06:28:10 ((lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 'wow) 06:28:45 oh god, gentle talks about the "let* special function". i'll never recommend it again 06:29:01 hahaha 06:29:28 looks like there are exercises, which would be useful - typing in examples only has so much utility 06:29:58 :-) 06:30:50 (funcall ((lambda (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) 2) 1) 06:34:35 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.134.47] has joined #lisp 06:34:35 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.134.47] has quit [Changing host] 06:34:35 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 06:34:36 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:35 Mandus [~aasmundo@128.39.36.106] has joined #lisp 06:37:25 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 06:37:29 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@122.Red-79-153-124.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 06:37:58 k0001 [~k0001@host125.186-125-100.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:40:21 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:44:01 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #lisp 06:44:46 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:42 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@74.3.163.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:46:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:47:00 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:48:39 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Quit: schjetne] 06:48:54 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 06:50:00 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.152.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:50:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.255.58] has joined #lisp 06:50:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.255.58] has quit [Changing host] 06:50:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:53:51 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:58:27 gmcastil: or (funcall #'(lambda (x) (funcall #'(lambda (n) (+ x n)) 2)) 1) :-) 07:00:12 gmcastil: so ``adder'' function would be "substituted" by an anonymous function 07:01:24 gmcastil: because your ``adder'' is: #'(lambda (x) (funcall #'(lambda (n) (+ x n)) 2)) in this example... 07:01:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:01:47 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.255.32] has joined #lisp 07:02:19 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 07:02:45 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.212.255.32] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:06:19 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-162.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:12:20 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 07:12:39 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@37.203.74.34] has joined #lisp 07:12:49 gmcastil: sorry, your (adder 2) is (lambda (x) (funcall #'(lambda (n) (+ x n)) 2)) , so you can appreciate the curring in the lambda term 07:13:49 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 07:16:06 *of the lambda terms :-) 07:16:22 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 07:16:53 (even if is not relevant) 07:21:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-248.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:00 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:28:11 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-235-75.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:29:44 -!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze] 07:30:16 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:30:53 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:33:02 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 07:33:08 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-178-140-78-173.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 07:33:08 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:23 I'm trying to deploy a restas app using the restas-daemon.lisp script (sbcl on ubuntu 11.10 server). The app's directory loads in asdf's central registry, but I keep getting a PACKAGE NOT FOUND error on loading the restas-daemon script with sbcl. Any ideas? Tried installing the package with quicklisp too, but that doesn't work either. Not sure if the package gets installed at all, ql:system-apropos doesn't show it. 07:36:52 morning 07:37:02 Hi wbooze 07:37:15 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754fc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:40 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #lisp 07:43:43 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-015-116.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:29 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:37 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.224.184.118] has joined #lisp 08:05:26 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-137.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:08:48 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl5-136-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:10:47 inklesspen [~jon-freen@inklesspen.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:04 Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has joined #lisp 08:13:22 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:15:04 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 08:16:54 thatJasonSmith 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#lisp 08:52:28 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-137.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:53:04 AeroNotix [~xeno@abny249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:56:19 nan- [~user@46.197.112.126] has joined #lisp 08:57:38 hello is there a builtin operator for (loop for a across v do (funcall fn a))? closest i could find was map-into 09:01:18 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl5-136-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:03:57 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 09:08:15 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl5-136-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:30 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@37.203.78.244] has joined #lisp 09:11:02 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl5-136-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:11:45 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 09:12:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:14:46 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:50 pchrist 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[~user@82.137.12.143] has joined #lisp 09:48:46 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48:52 -!- Aiwass [~user@unaffiliated/aiwass] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:49:27 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:37 nan-: (mapcar (lambda (n) (funcall (lambda (x) (+ x n)) 2)) '(1 2 3)) 09:53:03 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:56 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-248.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 09:58:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-248.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:32 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.210] has joined #lisp 10:03:30 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 10:09:40 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:12:30 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-178-140-78-173.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:29 Strigoides [~owen@114-134-0-102.lightwire.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:18:37 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:18:45 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:10 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #lisp 10:19:51 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.112.132] has joined #lisp 10:19:51 H4ns: i didn't know about map nil! so it is (map nil #'fn v). thanks alot 10:22:04 pnpuff: that generates a list. i was simply after a foreach for sequences 10:22:27 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 10:22:42 nan-: mapcar not only generates a list, it also does not work for arrays 10:26:10 nan-: (map 'list (lambda (n) (funcall (lambda (x) (+ x n)) 2)) #(1 2 3)) :-) 10:27:26 pnpuff: map nil was exactly what i was looking for, map 'list also generates something! :) 10:29:55 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[~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:17:51 [6502] [4e0cffe5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.255.229] has joined #lisp 14:20:14 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:20:38 *[6502]* will never understand the branch/pull-request dance of git/github 14:20:40 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-3-103.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 14:21:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-248.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:21:14 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:09 [6502]: :P 14:25:24 AeroNotix [~xeno@abny249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:26:06 <[6502]> for example jscl project has #'find-symbol that returns as second value :INHERIT instead of :INHERITED as specified by CLHS 14:26:46 <[6502]> should i go "git checkout -b typo", then fix, then "git commit -a -m 'typo'" then git push origin and the submit a pull request for the branch? 14:27:21 consult the git manual 14:29:37 [6502]: That's my process yes 14:31:14 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:31:34 <[6502]> Kenjin: so your fork has a gajillion or three-commits branches with unexplicative names? 14:31:51 actually no 14:32:30 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:32:31 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:33:10 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 14:33:23 <[6502]> how does lisp image-based model of programming handles multiple programmers? 14:33:38 <[6502]> handles = handle 14:33:54 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:34 It's 'handles' since there's a single model to do it. 14:34:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:48 It just does not. LispMachines were single user workstations. 14:34:50 [6502]: I usually only create new branches If my change is a significant contribution 14:35:32 Said otherwise, if you want to connect several developers (eg. thru swank) to a single image to develop, you better develop some tools and work methodology to handle it. 14:35:37 when I have heard others talk about image based programming they tend to talk about situations where the program is persisted within an image. I would contend that lisp is not "image based programming" in the commonly used meaning of that term 14:35:55 Vivitron: well, there's swank. 14:36:42 You certainly CAN have multiple programmers make changes to a single running lisp process, but you're likely to confuse each other 14:37:26 On the other hand, they could work each on his own package. 14:37:35 you can join in with eachother onto an emacs running under tmux too 14:37:44 You could write a function to duplicate a package so that you can work on version n+1 while the other programmers use version n, etc. 14:37:49 Though I've done that with a live server, committing changes tested in a local image, pulling them into the server's source tree, and doing (ql:quickload "top-level-system") to make them live 14:38:41 I even make (reload) to the ql:quickload of the appropriate system, so it's easy to type 14:38:55 I make most updates to my blog in the live running process 14:39:29 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:39:43 Besides, I think it would make a great experiment. Perhaps you could do that at the next ELS/ECLM. Have teams of 3-5 lispers connect each to a single lisp image, and develop some program together. Several teams with sessions of about 1 hour, well recorded, should let us learn something. 14:41:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:44:41 I think what would happen is someone will fuck something up within minutes while experimenting, and it will need restarting, therefore blowing away everyone else's partially baked stuff 14:44:55 Just updated my live Lisplog process to add an aggregator/feeds.html file to the RSS aggregator 14:45:34 I think it could work, if managed properly, especially if you work primarily in separate packages 14:45:59 I tend to leave development processes up for weeks, only occasioanlly needing to restart because of a bootstrapping problem 14:46:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:46:34 And I switch between them with m-x slime-connect 14:46:52 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:53 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:10 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-212-250.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:48:13 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Quit: Yes! Finally fixed my IRC/UTF-8 issues.] 14:48:18 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.242.253] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:48:25 The only problem I get is when a ql:quickload loads a modified file containing a defclass, and I forgot to turn off a periodic update of a JSON-client web page. Redefining a class in CCL removes its accessor methods from their generic functions before re-adding them. I should fix that sometime. 14:48:44 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.242.253] has joined #lisp 14:50:01 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 14:50:09 ykm [~ykm@182.237.146.80] has joined #lisp 14:50:13 -!- [6502] [4e0cffe5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.255.229] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:50:51 muertosrojos [~travismil@oh-76-5-96-35.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:42 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:52:48 -!- muertosrojos [~travismil@oh-76-5-96-35.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 14:55:43 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 14:56:55 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:57:14 -!- ykm [~ykm@182.237.146.80] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:58:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:16 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:24 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 15:03:45 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@62.182.198.143] has joined #lisp 15:05:50 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-212-250.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:52 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:11:17 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:6443:d26a:4d7d:5d2b] has joined #lisp 15:13:08 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:18 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:14:56 xan_ [~xan@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:15 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:26 pierpa [~user@95.234.221.161] has joined #lisp 15:20:06 -!- axion [~axion@66.231.120.220] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:20:54 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.93.248] has joined #lisp 15:21:31 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:23:21 Mandus_ [~aasmundo@128.39.36.10] has joined #lisp 15:24:26 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:09 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 15:34:24 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:34:52 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:44 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:36:57 -!- Mandus_ [~aasmundo@128.39.36.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:22 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.112.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:40:22 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:40:49 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-nhfdnbjlatepfwxj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:44:40 so now I'm not a Java developer anymore. I'm not a Lisp developer yet, but there is a chance I may use Lisp in some projects 15:44:53 I'm feeling so happy now 15:45:06 *kpreid* suggests not making choice of programming language part of your identity. 15:45:57 Denommus: do not defunctionalize yourself! :-) 15:45:58 it's part of my professional identity, no matter what I wish 15:46:59 pnpuff: every programming language I'm going to work with now has some support for functional style programming 15:48:12 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 15:50:43 Bike [~Glossina@63-230-172-89.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:44 oi, one question about syntaxis something represented in the repl #(23 32 40) is a stream of characters right? 15:51:06 vector 15:51:24 *PuercoPop* nods 15:51:32 thanks 15:51:55 #() is a nice way of representing a vector, although it won't process anything inside it 15:52:06 test #((+1 2) 2 1) on the REPL, for instance 15:52:28 but the backquote can be used in this case, like in a list: `#(,(+ 1 2) 2 1) 15:52:28 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has joined #lisp 15:52:40 you can also simply use (vector (+ 1 2) 2 1) 15:52:42 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:37 *PuercoPop* nods 15:55:45 But I seem to have runned into a bug in yason (or using it wrong) and going to try and produce a test case, So I need to read up on streams, vectors and flexi:streams first I think 15:57:00 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:6443:d26a:4d7d:5d2b] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:00:44 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:37 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-70-92.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:05:05 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-178-140-78-173.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 16:05:40 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:19 -!- jenia_ [~jenia@modemcable058.145-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:00 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@109.120.57.98] has joined #lisp 16:09:12 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-70-92.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:10:59 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@62.182.198.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:11:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:07 bobsaccamano [d929ee3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.41.238.60] has joined #lisp 16:15:25 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:15:26 hi ..im trying to install sbcl v1.1.7 on ubuntu 12.04..it fails giving an error: Can't open output/prefix.def 16:15:48 I run install.sh as root 16:16:19 -!- ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:26 ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 16:16:33 it doesn't fail 16:16:44 oh, misread 16:16:54 you forgot to build it 16:17:19 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-212-250.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:18 stassats: I thought the install script does it. 16:19:33 the install script does... installation 16:19:39 no, it's like the difference between 'make' and 'make install' 16:19:40 -!- hohum [~dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 16:19:46 you need to have something to install first! 16:21:10 Bike, stassats right, going through that now. Sorry for being too hasty 16:21:22 PuercoPop: what's the yason issue that you have? 16:22:43 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:22:59 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.216.2] has joined #lisp 16:23:33 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:43 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:25:21 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ssmxfnovrhcimmcy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:26:17 xan_ [~xan@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:40 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-uvfcwehondyimziq] has joined #lisp 16:31:13 nilsi [~nilsi@94.234.170.108] has joined #lisp 16:32:04 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:30 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl8-31-125.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:23 hello again, I'm here again since I am unable to understand the installation of sbcl on Linux. I've downloaded the latest tarball (1.1.7), unpacked it and ran make.sh. Now this requires sbcl to be already *installed*. But to install sbcl, I need to build it first right? What am I missing here? 16:40:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:52 bobsaccamano: most of the source is written in lisp, so you need a lisp implementation already. 16:41:12 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:41:35 bobsaccamano: you can download a binary. 16:42:04 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.118] has joined #lisp 16:42:36 Bike: yes, where can I get this implementation? 16:42:45 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@94.234.170.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:43:10 bobsaccamano: Usually your distro will provide a packaged binary installation of some sbcl. 16:43:14 you should just download an sbcl binary 16:43:41 That's another possibility. 16:43:47 yes, but its not the latest version 16:43:56 I guess that'll have to do 16:44:27 the idea is to compile the latest from whatever you download, if you want the latest:) 16:44:28 bobsaccamano: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html  you have both the source and latest binaries. 16:44:36 you could get your distro's sbcl and use it to build the latest sbcl from sources, if you want 16:45:38 Bike: thanks. this is exactly what I will do 16:47:07 bobsaccamano: If you want maybe is better download yhe sources package sbcl-1.1.7-source.tar.bz2 , after untar it with "tar -xjvf sbcl-1.1.7-source.tar.bz2" , after "cd sbcl-1.1.7" and read the INSTALL file... (all you need to know is in that file!) 16:49:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:59 pnpuff: done that already mate. Its after reading that, that I had these questions 16:50:24 bobsaccamano: if you have yet installed clisp on your distro to build sbcl pass as option of make.sh shell script --xc-host='clisp' and only after install by means of the install.sh script. Good luck! 16:52:15 satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:21 bobsaccamano: You have to read even the sources: take a look at make.sh and install.sh scripts! It's a lot useful... 16:56:04 bobsaccamano: don't listen to pnpuff 16:56:30 bobsaccamano: I hope you realise that section 1 is titled "BINARY DISTRIBUTION." 16:57:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57:51 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 16:59:22 bobsaccamano: stassat maybe is right: at the beginning it's better install the binary: take a look at http://www.sbcl.org/getting.html 17:00:24 It's better *only* because of is easier.. 17:01:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:03:06 the easier if you don't need the last version is apt-get install sbcl 17:04:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:05:26 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:08:09 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:09:46 k0001 [~k0001@host125.186-125-100.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:10:04 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:12:00 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:23 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 17:14:57 bobsaccamano: anyway to clarify, I hope, you can only install the binary version (with the install.sh script as super user), instead if you download the source code you have to build it with (with the make.sh script) before install it (with the install.sh script). binary packages of SBCL ends with "-linux-binary.tar.bz2". 17:17:28 tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has joined #lisp 17:17:51 seangrove [~user@173.228.102.82] has joined #lisp 17:19:51 thanks guys..I've successfully built the latest version of sbcl 17:21:27 H4ns: It appears to be that whitespace-p is not detecting a whitesapce 17:21:38 are you hanshueber the author? 17:21:55 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:22:00 -!- fantazo is now known as myst 17:22:13 -!- myst is now known as fantazo 17:24:56 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:25:07 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:51 PuercoPop, i can't help but i'm curios, input is utf-8? 17:26:54 I've written a bug report on clack and working on getting a test-case that doesn't require clack to debug: https://github.com/fukamachi/clack/issues/58 17:27:07 rszeno: no it is encoding in latin-1 aparnetly 17:27:11 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:27:15 and has no weird chars 17:28:02 basically "{\"cat\": \"dog\"}" triggers it but "{\"cat\":\"dog\"}" doesn't 17:28:37 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:28:42 triggers a conditing about a failing ecase with the char in question being #\ (whitespace) 17:29:21 PuercoPop: " I'm now if the error" seems like a typo 17:29:39 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:45 PuercoPop: yes. i don't know anything about clack, so if you could try to isolate the test case, it'd help. 17:29:49 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:30:44 Bike: ups yeah I meant to write I don't know, will fix it thanks for spotting it 17:31:23 Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:15 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@2.173.40.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:16 Snamich [~Snamich@71-9-62-86.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:24 amak [~amak@89-180-129-175.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 17:35:35 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:35:40 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 17:35:48 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p549C59D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:14 hi, anyone knows what types of arguments exists when defining a UFFI function 17:36:22 uffi? 17:37:21 yes, with def-function 17:37:33 why did you choose to use UFFI? 17:38:45 amak: check the manual of CFFI. 17:39:18 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:39:28 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:40:19 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:42:32 btw what's good and bad with each of it? i mean what is not in manuals and i can read, from your experience, for short (uffi and cffi, i know nothing about both) 17:42:45 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-klbytirboojgfmlh] has joined #lisp 17:42:58 -!- bobsaccamano [d929ee3c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.41.238.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:42:59 cffi is maintained and used by many people 17:43:08 and supports more implementations than uffi 17:43:58 thank you 17:44:06 is good to know, :) 17:44:37 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:51 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183233083.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:58 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d137125.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:24 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:49:35 i'm bridging osx app with ecl 17:49:47 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:50:13 so what I'm trying to do is declare objc_msgSend as foreign function 17:50:53 nobody is using uffi anymore, so you won't get much help here 17:52:11 amak: is there a specific reason why you use ecl instead of ccl ? 17:52:26 ccl? 17:52:41 clozure CL 17:52:51 very macintosh, has an objc bridge and stuff 17:53:07 H4ns: basically what happens is that a codepoint of 32 in a stream of format (:ISO-8859-1 :EOL-STYLE :LF) is read in th ecase of parse% that is supposed peek skipping whitespace. 17:54:09 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:15 amak: use swig on /usr/include/objc/ to get cffi definitions automatically! 17:55:08 amak: ccl is not embeddable into your osx app. Only ecl is embedable (and perhaps clisp, some work has been done to make clisp embedable a few years ago). 17:55:33 -!- Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Blueblaze] 17:55:54 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:00 ok, I got ecl embedded in osx app, and connect with swank 17:56:39 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-284-216.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:56:58 amak: use swig on /usr/include/objc/ to get automatically cffi definitions! 17:57:28 Joreji_ [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:02 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:21 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-1.smartone.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:35 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 18:01:44 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@109.163.162.53] has joined #lisp 18:03:25 deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:36 pjb: thanks man! that's want I need 18:05:36 Say, has anyone looked at inferior-shell at all? It seems to be the most complete (relatively) port of scsh to CL that I could find. 18:06:16 amak: now, it's possible that some parts can't be defined good automatically by swig, but it will do most of the job, and for those parts you can do the declarations by hand. 18:06:33 how can I enforce a typed argument in defun? 18:06:42 Depends when? 18:06:45 clhs check-type 18:06:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_check_.htm 18:06:49 at runtime. 18:07:04 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:24 there's no other way 18:07:37 PuercoPop: it'd be really helpful to see an isolated test case 18:08:02 sometimes people mean something else, leading to type declarations. But you're right. 18:08:54 what is wrong with this http://paste.lisp.org/+2XQD? 18:09:16 def-function is a macro 18:09:41 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboj179.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:10:11 jute [~Thunderbi@2.173.40.60] has joined #lisp 18:11:43 so it is expanded as it is defined 18:11:51 H4ns: I'm working on it, trying to recreate the stream, as it appears to work well with a string input ; (yason:encode (flexi-streams:octets-to-string #(123 34 99 97 116 34 58 32 34 100 111 103 34 125))) 18:12:53 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abny249.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:01 PuercoPop: did you try latin-1 encoding, too? 18:13:07 Let's try this instead: If you use CL for scripting on Linux/UNIX, what libraries do you use for running external programs, pipes, pathnames, etc.? In short, what is your toolkit? 18:13:24 sb-ext:run-program 18:14:39 brb 18:14:43 -!- amak [~amak@89-180-129-175.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: amak] 18:15:34 stassats: So no external libraries then? Even things like CL-FAD or UIOP? 18:15:50 cl-fad doesn't run programs 18:15:58 and uiop has a stupid name 18:16:01 tigranes: I use iolib 18:16:05 Yes, but it provides the pathnames part 18:16:16 fe[nl]ix: That would make sense :) 18:16:53 cl provides the pathnames part too 18:16:59 tigranes: what do you mean ? 18:17:35 fe[nl]ix: Seeing as you're the author. 18:18:04 :) 18:19:07 k0001_ [~k0001@host86.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:19:12 H4ns: I am very ignorant in common lisp, write now I'm trying to see how to create a stream to pass to flexi-streams:make-flexi-stream as a first argument (already got down the syntax for make-external-format) 18:19:25 stassats: Hmm, you do raise an interesting point. I too often use SB-EXT functions, but also UIOP, but the major point of UIOP (i.e. portability) is negated by the use of SBCL-specific features. 18:19:48 it's a script, who cares about portability 18:20:28 stassats: Do you write your own wrappers around SB-EXT:RUN-PROGRAM to do common tasks (like reading output to a string or a list of strings, etc.), or always use it directly? 18:21:01 i rarely do anything besides "run this thing with this arguments" 18:22:14 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host125.186-125-100.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:22:31 but reading to a string is easy with (with-output-to-string (str) (sb-ext:run-program ... :output str)) 18:22:37 (except on windows currently) 18:24:01 stassats: I see. Do you use a different language for more complex scripts? Ones that would require pipes, for example. 18:24:46 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:24:57 CL has so many libraries which reduces the necessity to use external programs 18:25:09 and i would prefer a FFI interface, probably 18:25:41 stassats: I see. Thanks for letting me pick your brain :) 18:26:18 if it's a sane FFI interface, some things have brain damaged API 18:26:29 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-192-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:31:05 stassats: any practical example of things that use kind of APIs? thx ... 18:31:33 ..these kind of.. 18:32:49 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 18:32:50 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:07 -!- pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: parting.] 18:33:38 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboj179.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:33:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-230-172-89.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:33:44 pnpuff [~name@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:33:55 Bike [~Glossina@63-230-172-89.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:57 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboj179.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:35:41 stassats: make me an example! -thx- 18:35:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:35:53 no 18:35:59 PuercoPop: can you paste a complete stack trace and error to paste.lisp.org? maybe there is something i can see from that. 18:36:59 -!- flubbjlubb [~crimedisp@unaffiliated/flubbjlubb] has quit [Quit: flubbjlubb] 18:42:56 stassats: maybe would be nice write anaided diagnois system for mantain the mental health :) 18:48:12 -!- jute [~Thunderbi@2.173.40.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:16 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:37 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-284-216.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:49:44 -!- hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@109.120.57.98] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys1] 18:50:02 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:00 benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-3-103.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 18:51:18 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:51:43 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.224.184.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:52:47 -!- Flame_Alchemist [~Flame_Alc@host24-1-dynamic.117-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:53:57 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:13 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:15 Joreji_ [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:24 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:21 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host31-52-58-47.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:52 doomlord_ [~servitor@host31-52-58-47.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 19:01:12 milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has joined #lisp 19:03:20 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host86.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:03:58 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.210] has joined #lisp 19:06:32 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:32 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 19:07:37 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:08:38 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:08:59 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:11:13 H4ns: sure, how do I do that? 19:11:33 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:59 -!- CRM114 [~urchin@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 19:13:48 -!- seangrove [~user@173.228.102.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:08 xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:40 -!- _d3f [~gnu@93.114.45.248] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:18:50 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-135-128.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:52 pue 19:27:30 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:12 gravitation_ [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:38:41 -!- gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:38:42 -!- gravitation_ is now known as gravitation 19:39:36 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:42:08 PuercoPop: copy & paste 19:43:13 do you mean this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137030 19:43:30 or is there a way to serialize the backtrances? 19:43:46 looks serialied enough to me 19:44:26 *nods*, But he can't inspect the variables, so I thought maybe there is something more to it. 19:44:34 PuercoPop: let me look at it 19:46:07 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.143.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:46:12 thanks, 19:46:14 bioevolgenec1 [~bioevolge@athedsl-4502202.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:47:05 imu96 [~imran@91.140.173.227] has joined #lisp 19:47:30 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:47:31 PuercoPop: hm, no, i'm basically where you are. i need some way to reproduce the problem. 19:48:44 PuercoPop: well, one idea: it could be that the stream is non-blocking 19:49:22 PuercoPop: then listen could return false, and the later read-char could return a white space character. 19:49:27 PuercoPop: that'd be rather hard to reproduce 19:49:41 it appears to be the whitespace in the the middle 19:49:46 because when I send curl 19:50:12 with this option -d "{\"cat\":\"dog\"}" it works perfectly 19:50:21 but this a space after the : is where it fails 19:50:58 H4ns: I could post a gist with all the code the asd and the package, it is really small, just starting 19:51:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:14 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:51:24 i can't spend much time on this really. 19:51:34 *PuercoPop* understands 19:51:46 if i can load it through quicklisp, it'd be okay 19:52:07 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:52:19 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.143.23] has joined #lisp 19:52:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:35 yeah, maybe you could help me make a stream with the the chars in question and I take it from there? all the dependencies are in quicklisp, so it would be loadable with quicklisp. 19:53:36 (yason:parse "{\"cat\": \"dog\"}") works fine 19:54:30 yeah, it does. also (yason:encode (flexi-streams:octets-to-string #(123 34 99 97 116 34 58 32 34 100 111 103 34 125))) 19:54:37 works fine to 19:54:52 this is all you need to reproduce my setup: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5518536 19:54:58 i think it is related to the stream. 19:55:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:57:38 no, your gist does not load. 19:58:14 ahh I forgot the copy the defpackage, sec 19:58:46 Joreji_ [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:14 fixed it. I'm trying to create a stream but I can't find a way to pass fundalmental-character-input-stream as a first argument. (flexi-streams:make-flexi-stream trivial-gray-steams:fundamental-character-input-stream :external-format (flexi-streams:make-external-format :latin-1 :EOL-STYLE :LF)) 20:02:10 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:17 -!- bioevolgenec1 [~bioevolge@athedsl-4502202.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:06:12 -!- sdemarre [~serge@45.146-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:08:35 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:11:23 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 20:12:03 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.173.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:16 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-85-113.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:34 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:17:15 imu96 [~imran@91.140.173.227] has joined #lisp 20:19:29 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.173.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:07 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:29 imu96 [~imran@91.140.173.227] has joined #lisp 20:22:46 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.173.227] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:05 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-194-066.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:49 -!- SeanTAllen [uid4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nollabygryvjjprr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:24:54 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jfwbggcwbuxkrknd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:26:00 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sbbapftgriwloxwv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:27:10 -!- pw_ [uid2072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrqmnwlaekxjjkgi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:30:41 -!- gravitation [~gravitati@dyn-160-39-62-113.dyn.columbia.edu] has left #lisp 20:38:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-198-228-194-066.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:36 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 20:41:43 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:03 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 20:42:50 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:45:57 Do people generally import particular symbols from a library they use, like UIOP, or use package:symbol syntax? I often use package:symbol, but with UIOP in particular they get very long: UIOP/PATHNAME:DIRECTORY-PATHNAME-P 20:46:02 -!- deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-61-39.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: deveux] 20:48:49 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:58 Err, nevermind 20:50:17 Too late. tigranes: depends on the dependency between one package and another. If it's a strong dependency, one package using a lot of stuff from the other (like, your package using Common Lisp), then (:use "COMMON-LISP") and use the symbols unqualified. If it's a weak dependency, where you're using only one or two symbols, then just pack:sym. 20:51:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:01 :) That makes sense. I said nevermind because I figure out that I don't need to do UIOP/PATHNAME:DIRECTORY-PATHNAME-P, I can just do UIOP:DIRECTORY-PATHNAME-P, which made it much easier to use pack:sym syntax. 20:56:04 Notice that I explicitely used CL as an example, because you may very well not have a strong dependency on it, but instead, (:use "MY-LISP") ;-) 20:58:48 LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has joined #lisp 21:00:34 pjb: Oy, I don't even want to think about the implications of that. 21:02:20 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:29 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:07:07 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 21:10:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@205.158.58.41.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:10:58 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-93-104-3-103.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:36 leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB8930.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] 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[~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:39:05 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.216.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:40:14 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 22:40:45 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:08 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:35 cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-249-121.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:53:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:57:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-137.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:59:08 k0001 [~k0001@host86.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:00:10 linuxos [~linuxos@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:54 a functional programming question: i pass an object into a function .. it modifies that object in place, out comes the modified object .. is the function still pure | without side effects? 23:03:15 no 23:05:03 pure functions must be passed immutable objects? 23:05:17 they mustn't mutate them 23:07:56 so the only way for a pure function to modify its input is to create a deep copy and then modify that one instead? 23:08:08 No, no deep copy. Shallow copies are enough. 23:08:17 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-164-175-225.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:32 And since you copy, you don't have to modify! 23:08:53 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@d137125.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:09:07 why shallow copies 23:09:56 Because there's no need to copy what is not changed: 23:09:57 (defun replace-first-occurence (new old list) (cond ((null list) list) ((eql old (first list)) (cons new (rest list))) (t (cons (first list) (replace-first-occurence new old (rest list)))))) 23:10:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-230-172-89.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:10:19 Here, we only copy the parts of the list that changed: from the start to the first occurence. 23:10:36 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:11:29 pjb: like clojure's immutable data structures right 23:12:01 Like any immutable data structure. clojure didn't invent anything. 23:15:17 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:22:03 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has left #lisp 23:22:26 -!- linuxos [~linuxos@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: linuxos] 23:32:20 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:03 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:20 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:35:21 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-178-140-78-173.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:36 -!- seangrove [~user@173.247.203.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:03 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:39:10 hi 23:39:16 lo 23:39:35 mid 23:39:40 pop 23:40:00 nay 23:40:39 flubbjlubb [~crimedisp@gateway/tor-sasl/flubbjlubb] has joined #lisp 23:42:00 wat 23:44:37 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:48:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:49:35 ASau``` [~user@p4FF96CD6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:53:08 -!- ASau`` [~user@p5797F028.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:56:36 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]