00:04:06 j`ey: ... are you trolling me? :P 00:06:55 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-56-133.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 00:07:06 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-56-133.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 00:07:06 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 00:07:46 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:19 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 00:12:37 so I have this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136984 and I get an error like this: Error: &key list isn't even. [condition type: PROGRAM-ERROR] 00:12:52 I can try to post the thing I'm trying to decrypt if it seems relevant 00:14:22 (ironclad:make-cipher :AES :mode :ECB :key key), should the :aes be there? 00:14:48 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abol172.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 00:14:49 the error means you passed &key parameters wrong to some function 00:15:13 slightly unrelated to error, but why ECB? 00:15:25 oh, no, that call's fine 00:15:30 leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:33 ah 00:15:37 because I'm doing a practice exercise and that's what they said to use :P 00:15:39 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:15:58 ah, the encrypt call is wrong 00:16:15 "encrypt cipher plaintext ciphertext &key plaintext-start plaintext-end ciphertext-start handle-final-block", and you're passing four arguments 00:16:16 nialo: ah, right. Just remember to *not* use ECB in practice ;) 00:16:30 capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:37 &key doesn't mean what I imagine it does, right 00:16:53 yeah, just replace that with (ironclad:encrypt cipher plaintext ciphertext) and i'm guessing it'll work 00:17:03 replace your call, that is 00:17:46 seems to have 00:18:00 there's an error on the next line too, but that's relatively obvious 00:18:05 &key is named arguments, so you can do (make-cipher :aes :key key :mode :ecb) and such 00:19:25 Why not ECB: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f0/Tux_ecb.jpg 00:19:33 tiglog [~topeak@114.243.48.68] has joined #lisp 00:21:22 well, it runs now, thanks :) 00:21:56 *jasom* is guessing that ironclad's compiler-macro for make-cipher is broken 00:22:24 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host121.186-125-147.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:22:34 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:41 how so? 00:22:56 nialo: that would explain why your make-cipher line didn't work 00:23:30 -!- travel-infected5 [~travel-in@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:23:31 as far as I can tell it does work 00:23:50 jasom: nialo put an extra argument 00:24:32 Bike: oh it was the encrypt call not the make-cipher call that was wrong 00:24:48 *jasom* sees it now 00:24:52 right 00:26:48 it turns out that if you want it to decrypt you need to actually call the decrypt function :( 00:27:04 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:28:01 does anyone actually use ironclad? 00:28:10 *jasom* thought cl+ssl was more common 00:29:01 cl+ssl doesn't, as far as I can tell, expose the raw ciphers 00:29:12 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-194-193.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:29:22 so while it's a much better choice for actually writing a real application, it won't work at all for the practice thing I'm doing 00:29:32 jasom: I think quite a lot of stuff uses it when they need bits of crypto 00:29:38 especially hash functions 00:29:43 -!- bananagram [~bot@99-153-189-13.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:29:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@173-228-88-2.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:31:02 *jasom* needs to poke djb about PIC support in NaCl; that would give easy access to crypto primitives 00:31:35 kickapoo86 [~Kickapoo8@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:01 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:12 jasom: http://labs.umbrella.com/2013/03/06/announcing-sodium-a-new-cryptographic-library/ 00:34:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-50-12.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:34:54 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-83.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:35:29 fe[nl]ix: hmm; I wonder what the typical performance delta is between the Sodium portable implementations and the non-portable NaCl ones 00:36:19 oh, it's same implementations, but run-time selected instead of compile time; that's smart. 00:38:15 and it builds a working .so it looks like; thanks fe[nl]ix 00:38:28 -!- kickapoo86 [~Kickapoo8@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kickapoo86] 00:38:52 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-50-12.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:34 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:41:52 DoctorDude [~Jake@unaffiliated/doctordude] has joined #lisp 00:42:12 KDr2 [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has joined #lisp 00:43:26 LiamH [~none@96.231.225.69] has joined #lisp 00:43:48 register [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:12 -!- register is now known as Guest30647 00:44:47 -!- capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:11 sw2wolf [~z_axis@171.217.21.22] has joined #lisp 00:45:27 sempiternity43 [~sempitern@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:07 -!- sykopomp 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Leaving.] 01:02:36 Xach: just was bitten by a bug i had before with *.asdf 01:02:59 ok? 01:03:09 Xach: under SBCL if *local-project-directories* contains a path like #p"/path/without/trailing/slash" 01:03:23 it ignores last component and searches parent 01:03:40 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d4bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:44 could be hard to track if one had no idea about needing the trailing slash 01:04:25 this is kind of old quicklisp, and I can't upgrade right now, but if you had not fixed this before, its probably still there 01:04:37 I haven't fixed that. 01:04:53 I've made it warn or fix or something for the install directory path, I think. 01:06:29 -!- sempiternity43 [~sempitern@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:48 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.229.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:07 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1057.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:16 knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-161-107.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:17 super silly LOOP question: if I write a for clause after a do clause, will they be evaluated in that order? 01:09:23 (for after do) 01:10:04 I don't think you can order them like that? 01:10:52 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-161-107.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:12:48 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:25 yes, you can't do that. 01:14:42 (by the standard, anyway; some impls will not complain) 01:16:28 ok then 01:17:17 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:17:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:17:43 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:53 -!- ejohnson1 [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:24 sempiternity43 [~sempitern@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] 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04:15:08 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.242.183] has joined #lisp 04:16:12 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24:05 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.210] has joined #lisp 04:25:19 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 04:25:21 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.217.89] has joined #lisp 04:33:36 Greetings! 04:34:05 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:39:07 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 04:41:14 -!- Recursive{away} is now known as Recursive 04:46:42 fentonTraversAnd [~androirc@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 04:49:03 Wonder if there is a published spec about how sicko works 04:49:15 Quicklisp 04:49:21 Sorry typo 04:49:28 no 04:50:07 Wouldn't that be a reasonable thing? 04:50:51 I think extensive documentation is one of the things Xach works on for getting ql out of beta. 04:51:49 Seems weird there is only one ql repo 04:52:42 fentonTraversAnd: it'd be easier to discuss if you'd not connotate everything that you say negatively 04:52:45 Egg with maven you can specify the repo 04:53:12 fentonTraversAnd: quicklisp works great for a large number of people, and it works way way better than everything else we had before. 04:53:35 There's a project that lets you make your own repos, but it relies on kinda undocumented stuff, so. 04:53:40 fentonTraversAnd: keep in mind that the cl community is very very small. we don't need enterprise class infrastructure because we're just a handful of people. 04:54:21 _danb_ [~user@203.29.131.142] has joined #lisp 04:54:26 Hmmm 04:55:01 Xach pretty much includes everything that isn't a utility library, anyway... 04:55:08 Think that might be s self fulfilling prophecy 04:56:04 I'd suggest there'd be a benefit to encouraging noon public repos 04:56:09 Non 04:56:33 But hard without some kind of spec 04:56:45 fentonTraversAnd: great idea, thank you for your suggestion! 04:56:52 Lol 04:57:01 fentonTraversAnd: Yes, its being made more accessible. Ive made a few private repos for different projects, but its not yet documented or friendly. 04:57:23 Can i help? 04:57:27 As Bike said, thats one of the reasons Xach still labels it beta. 04:57:53 fentonTraversAnd: I dont know  I imagine Xach is asleep now (as its 1 AM where he is). 04:58:10 Where is that 04:58:27 Pst? 04:58:35 https://github.com/orivej/quickdist I think. 04:58:55 fentonTraversAnd, i'm curious how you could help? 04:58:58 fentonTraversAnd: I mean, you could definitely fork the project and try to do various things, but itd probably be useful to coördinate with Xach first. 04:59:04 fentonTraversAnd: EST. 04:59:15 Ok cool 04:59:20 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.66.208] has joined #lisp 04:59:40 fentonTraversAnd: https://github.com/orivej/quickdist is the make-your-own-repo thing. 05:00:04 Oh, quickdist looks nice. 05:00:08 Ok I'll examine those 05:00:51 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:01:45 Point is to push corporate adoption. Private repos required 05:02:43 fentonTraversAnd: i'm curious, what corporations would like to adopt cl but can't because quicklisp sucks? 05:03:30 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:03:32 Say i write code for my it org... cannot put in public repo 05:04:15 like i do... and? 05:04:16 At Amazon, I had to wedge all the lisp systems into the in-house package manager. Same for ruby gems, etc. 05:04:32 sdemarre [~serge@55.152-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:05:36 Sellout would a private ql repo have helped in that situation? 05:06:53 fentonTraversAnd: quicklisp is for distributing libraries to users. if you are distributing applications, it is very likely that you won't use quicklisp for that. 05:07:04 -!- justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:14 fentonTraversAnd: No, thats my point  everything in every language used that one system. QL might have helped me in some scripts for pulling/repackaging updated code, though. 05:07:23 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.229.10] has joined #lisp 05:07:59 fentonTraversAnd: quicklisp does not even attempt to distribute libraries to developers - if you need to fix a library that you're using through quicklisp, you'll be on your own, basically. 05:08:06 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:08:12 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:24 H4ns: I think Xach is on the verge of changing that last bit, though :) 05:08:57 sellout-: of course. but i'm glad that he focuses on the biggest problem first :) 05:09:36 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:09:48 sure, ql is not all the way there, but provides that great step of easily supplying intermediary libs...i mean the rest of your IT team could leverage your libraries easily then. 05:10:10 isn't that what cl-build is for or somethign? 05:10:10 fenton: you have a team that works in cl? 05:10:32 no, but i did have one in java, that i was looking to migrate... 05:10:54 so i went through this whole process from a java perspective...and dont see why it couldn't have all been lisp too. 05:11:13 there are a lot of back end systems that don't care what language... 05:11:23 so lisp swap for java is pretty easy 05:11:33 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.229.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:11:54 fenton: except for all of the enterprise infrastructure that comes with java and that cl does not have. 05:11:57 more components in place...then easier to do 05:12:06 not a big deal... 05:12:08 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:12:27 whats the big deal... 05:12:30 like clusters of weblogic??? 05:12:32 pffft 05:13:08 sorry...that was a bit rude. 05:13:27 momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has joined #lisp 05:13:43 i guess i'm just pushing/looking for the parts that i consider to be a part of that 'enterprise infrastructure' you refer to...so what pieces are missing in your opinion? 05:14:35 setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:59 a package manager that is documented and allows multiple repositories is one thing that you have identified. 05:15:34 the part where you talk about being able to modify others libraries, i think is important, but really how hard is that? pull with git, push back to the source repo.... i'd like to see continuous build/integration... 05:15:45 yup, but the delta on where ql is not and that...can't be all that huge. 05:15:46 *now 05:16:00 -!- DoctorDude [~Jake@unaffiliated/doctordude] has left #lisp 05:16:11 fenton: i use git submodules for all libraries that i include in our product 05:16:34 hmmm...i never used git for submodules... 05:16:47 git for me was unaware of project dependencies. 05:17:12 git submodules are not great, but i can live with them. 05:17:19 asdf maintains dependency info...so is there an overlap? 05:17:35 what's the benefit of them? 05:18:14 i used jenkins for continuous build...is there any lisp equivalent...i'm guessing something like that is hiding in QL 05:18:53 you can "include" one git repo (by commit) in another, which basically gives you a way of including particular versions of any repo in versions of another. 05:18:53 i use jenkins. 05:18:56 justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 05:19:06 stuff in ql is not "hiding". ql is for library distribution, not for applications. 05:19:10 must be hiding in there... 05:19:36 what you mean by hiding, potential? 05:21:01 sorry wasn't clear. the libs in QL will depend on one another, so when i mod B, that A depends on, I should rebuild not just B but also A...in an automated fasion...continuous builds... 05:21:06 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:21:11 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 05:21:21 H4ns: i get that ql is for lib dist only. 05:21:48 fenton: quicklisp means to make sure that everything in one dist compiles together. 05:22:07 H4ns: sure...sounds just like continuous builds. 05:22:25 actually more i think of it...almost just like jenkins. 05:23:03 i'll have to browse the code...pitty i'm a lisp newbie... 05:23:55 fenton: always a good idea to familiarize yourself with the tools that you're trying to use. 05:24:09 H4ns: not sure why u r stressing the lib/application division...??? App is just a collection of libs...or is there something i'm not getting? 05:24:15 fenton: Well, its like if you ran Jenkins just once a month ;) 05:24:34 so QL doesn't trigger on code commits? 05:25:02 fenton: why don't you spend some time on using lisp. say, a few weeks? 05:25:18 so QL is run by hand? 05:25:42 fenton: When you distribute an app, you have probably built all the libs into a core file (like linking a C program), so QL is not useful for the end users, just the developers who want to depend on the libs. 05:25:45 H4ns: thats what I've been doing and will continue to be doing until i'm no longer a newbie... it'll take up pretty much 100% of my time going forward. 05:25:45 fenton: it will be so much easier to understand everything when you actually do some research on your own rather then poking around in the dark with java preassumptions 05:26:27 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:26:55 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 05:27:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:27:41 sellout-: so QL is responsible for 99.99% of the work, but doesn't handle that final step of distribution to end user...i guess i just considered that a rounding error 05:27:46 fenton, i'm curious what languages did you used? except java 05:28:18 Is there an acceptable way to remove a generic-function in CL? 05:28:33 drmeister: fmakunbound 05:28:51 satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:02 rszeno: well quite a few, but would qualify how much too right? C, C++, python, perl, ruby, haskell, clojure, shell, i'm sure i'm missing a few... 05:29:31 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:30:44 -!- meiji11 [~user@d75-158-41-148.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:12 Thanks 05:31:48 drmeister: thanks what? where is the solution ? 05:32:00 thanks guys for your opinions/thoughts... 05:32:30 i mean "remove a generic-function ..." 05:32:32 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:32:56 Recursive: fmakunbound 05:33:14 -!- fentonTraversAnd [~androirc@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 05:33:14 clhs fmakunbound 05:33:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fmakun.htm 05:34:05 Recursive: H4ns responded with fmakunbound 05:34:23 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:51 enupten [~neptune@c-24-18-243-195.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:17 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:33 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:59 is Quicklisp code not open source, or on github or something/somewhere? 05:38:18 fentonTraversAnd [~androirc@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:39 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@223.Red-81-34-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 05:38:54 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:05 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 05:43:16 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:45:04 -!- sdemarre [~serge@55.152-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:45:29 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qzigruyqxgtrpced] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:45:48 fenton, http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 05:45:54 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-dlxewwevcaamiqzt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:46:07 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 05:46:26 at the bottom of the page 05:48:06 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-lrsivbmmqlhenyvs] has joined #lisp 05:49:33 Hmmm not in public github? 05:49:36 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:50:22 Bike already give you the link to github, https://github.com/orivej/quickdist 05:50:42 it is too hard to read through a web page 05:50:48 i can understand that. 05:51:27 I didn't realize quickdist and quicklisp is the same. 05:51:36 they're not 05:51:59 oops, is my fault, 05:52:11 quicklisp's stuff lives at https://github.com/quicklisp/, obviously enough 05:52:36 I don't see how to download from there 05:52:50 Am i blind? 05:52:57 You are unfamiliar with git. 05:53:24 No 05:53:33 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-lrsivbmmqlhenyvs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:35 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.142.235.223] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 05:54:02 Where on that page is the url to download... I couldn't find 05:54:19 you have to familiarize yourself with git... 05:54:20 Find a repository you want source of. 05:54:24 Click link to repo. 05:54:31 Observe url at top. 05:54:44 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-clefkedcmicbswvy] has joined #lisp 05:55:02 fentonTraversAnd, http://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp 05:55:39 Repositories tab? 05:56:08 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:27 Rszeno that page has nothing about git repo 05:57:12 fentonTraversAnd: http://quicklisp.org/ start reading there, it has all the information. 05:57:51 you said download, i understand you want to install quicklisp not get the source 05:58:01 probably i was wrong 05:58:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:59:21 -!- schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:59:22 H4ns... I've read the whole thing and still cannot find the git url to download source. 05:59:53 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-clefkedcmicbswvy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:00:00 Well, none of us really want to explain how to use github's interface. It shouldn't be that hard, though. 06:00:11 fentonTraversAnd: then you should find some sleep or get help from a professional developer skilled in using google and maybe github. 06:01:06 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sgknqdlgmbjcejkj] has joined #lisp 06:01:33 teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.81] has joined #lisp 06:04:11 OK i think i get it... QL is a collection of several projects not a single project 06:04:43 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:04:50 fentonTraversAnd: you need to use git to pull the source from github 06:04:57 you have to read up on git 06:05:03 i suppose what you found is the meta for projects 06:05:08 it's really not that hard 06:05:17 I got it now 06:05:36 rszeno: i linked fenton the quicklisp user page, because it's made of a few components, like the project info, the client, and the bootstrap. 06:05:53 I got confused by the meta project 06:06:36 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sgknqdlgmbjcejkj] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:06:40 Sorry to irritate 06:07:31 leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:07:46 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qilnhdbigqkjimno] has joined #lisp 06:08:44 Bike, i don't think your link confuse fenton but this one https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects 06:09:32 Seems server code not present. 06:09:59 what server code? 06:11:25 -!- momo-reina [~user@173.244.199.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:34 There will be code on the ql server that builds all these projects... I'm guessing 06:12:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:13:06 Maybe that's the quick dist code bike shared 06:13:21 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qilnhdbigqkjimno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:13:30 builds? all the server has to provide is a tgz of sources 06:14:39 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ahliaeifsnsriryz] has joined #lisp 06:15:10 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:23 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:16:15 I need to think about this for a bit 06:18:09 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 06:19:22 schjetne [~schjetne@fsf/member/schjetne] has joined #lisp 06:20:19 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ahliaeifsnsriryz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:21:25 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-tgjtekxjvgnpegmb] has joined #lisp 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[~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 07:26:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-48.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:28:07 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ytyangsqetfdqouv] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:28:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-149-227.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:14 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kgxrhqkolahsnngx] has joined #lisp 07:29:18 morning 07:30:54 hey 07:32:22 zorkmoid: hello! 07:32:35 -!- Recursive [~z_axis@171.217.21.22] has left #lisp 07:32:47 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 07:34:33 p_l|omoikane: im not intwntionally trollint you 07:35:05 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kgxrhqkolahsnngx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:36:24 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kslrbaxdqndjzkid] has joined #lisp 07:39:37 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:40:54 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:40:55 -!- fentonTraversAnd [~androirc@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:14 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kslrbaxdqndjzkid] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:43:23 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rxqwcdaqdujwipff] has joined #lisp 07:44:10 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:44:56 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.229.10] has joined #lisp 07:46:41 Could anyone give me some examples of defining new asdf ops? 07:47:49 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-tupimzvyprwwtrcw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:49:24 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rxqwcdaqdujwipff] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:50:03 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-dfeaphcpiemuvcbg] has joined #lisp 07:53:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:55:38 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-dfeaphcpiemuvcbg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 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joined #lisp 08:31:21 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 08:31:21 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 08:32:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:32:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-48.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:33:21 Yuuhi` [benni@pD9F98A57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:43 leo2007 [lsd@SDF.ORG] has joined #lisp 08:34:06 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-193-68.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 08:34:32 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-193-68.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:35:32 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5DC63D52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:36:41 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-izhvvbdyvykjqmwk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:36:47 fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:03 balle [~basti@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 08:37:30 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qhnzmgfiwpnxqnds] has joined #lisp 08:43:21 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qhnzmgfiwpnxqnds] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:43:55 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:44:10 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-smfqipgpkkobfdst] has joined #lisp 08:46:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-130.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:48:30 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-253-14.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:13 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-smfqipgpkkobfdst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:50:45 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-plhbmlrcbugkdcqi] has joined #lisp 08:52:19 There seems to be several XML-RPC libraries for CL? Does anyone have any suggestion on as to which one should be used? 08:52:36 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:53:19 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #lisp 08:53:21 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 08:56:13 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-plhbmlrcbugkdcqi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:56:58 loke_: the first one you find, until you get annoyed by it and rewrite it or change :-) 08:57:10 :-) 08:57:17 do you have any experience with them? 08:57:23 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ksgmnxsbigiodrfk] has joined #lisp 08:57:25 nope 08:57:29 ok :-) 08:57:34 i stay away from xml like the plauge 09:03:06 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ksgmnxsbigiodrfk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:04:10 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-gwrqujtmaojqnpts] has joined #lisp 09:04:57 Recursive [~z_axis@171.217.21.22] has joined #lisp 09:06:01 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.66.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:07:24 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:35 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.66.208] has joined #lisp 09:09:48 -!- aw|sovereign_ is now known as aw|sovereign 09:10:14 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-gwrqujtmaojqnpts] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:32 *easye* avoids cliches like the plague. 09:10:47 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:54 Why are CMU CL and SBCL in the public domain? 09:10:59 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qasrpuccyralgjlp] has joined #lisp 09:11:08 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:11:43 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:12 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.66.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:12:56 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.66.208] has joined #lisp 09:12:57 Aethaeryn: SBCL i don't know, but CMUCL is (mostly) PD because it was (and mainly still) a univ. run project 09:13:15 Aethaeryn: they got their funding from DARPA back in the day 09:13:46 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 09:13:55 Ah. So there's no particular, e.g. ethical reason? 09:14:55 It's just a tradition? 09:14:56 Hmm... 09:15:39 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.217.89] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 09:16:03 nope 09:16:42 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00223a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:17:00 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-qasrpuccyralgjlp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:17:02 well, some tradition as well, in the lisp community we always shared our code. 09:17:37 you could always do (disassemble ...) on something and get the source code, and stuff like that... 09:18:00 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yxsqvegebcylhtys] has joined #lisp 09:18:31 Is there a functional difference between public domain and the MIT license? I've come across the MIT license a lot while browsing various Github repos of major Lisp projects to see how they are organized and written and who contributes. 09:18:47 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:29 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.233] has joined #lisp 09:20:04 Yes, the MIT license makes it mandatory to include it, but public domain dedications are basically mandatory too since otherwise it's assumed that additions aren't public domain afaik. 09:20:14 more or less unless you wish to get into small nitygrity details. 09:20:36 it is actually extremley hard to put something into the PD ... legally, and correctly, under US copyright law 09:20:51 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 09:21:17 lets take this in privmsg, people tend to get snarky when off-topicness pops up ;) 09:21:30 mozartreina [~user@aa20111001946f573acf.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:21:50 Or #lispcafe perhaps? 09:21:58 ah, that is a good idea. 09:22:02 i always forget about that one 09:22:22 Yes, I'm in #lisp and #lispweb and #lispgames but I did forget about #lispcafe too 09:23:10 to many channels imho.. 09:23:12 anywho... 09:23:28 can anyone recommend a linear algebra library? Cliki has more than a few listed, is there one that is predominant? 09:23:30 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:23:36 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:23:47 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yxsqvegebcylhtys] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:23:48 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:38 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-bnaehsyewgorvneo] has joined #lisp 09:26:11 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@59.37.63.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:29:40 mozartreina: there isn't 09:30:39 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-bnaehsyewgorvneo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:31:31 fe[nl]ix: so use is distributed more or less evenly? i was looking at cl-octave (primarily because octave was used in coursera's ML class) and matlisp. 09:31:34 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yobeuzljgvoevpox] has joined #lisp 09:32:49 try gsll 09:33:35 capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:02 will do, thanks 09:37:09 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-yobeuzljgvoevpox] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:37:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:38:30 -!- capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:38:33 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-roouxqzrcrbossmj] has joined #lisp 09:39:05 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:39:13 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:25 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-cbzcysavrsmkzqvr] has joined #lisp 09:40:13 -!- d11wtq [~chris@59.167.38.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:34 -!- mozartreina [~user@aa20111001946f573acf.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:14 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:27 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-roouxqzrcrbossmj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:44:41 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:18 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-oiawyyxtbpmlohtf] has joined #lisp 09:45:21 -!- Recursive [~z_axis@171.217.21.22] has left #lisp 09:45:36 -!- tophalf01 [~Incorrect@c-71-207-142-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I must go. My people need me.] 09:48:21 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:50:43 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-oiawyyxtbpmlohtf] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:51:28 Kenjin [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 09:52:02 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-umcshmzoyzkrpgmq] has joined #lisp 09:56:44 tophalf01 [~Incorrect@c-71-207-142-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:07 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-umcshmzoyzkrpgmq] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:58:35 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:58:44 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rsxxlthllmhgaagb] has joined #lisp 10:00:46 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rsxxlthllmhgaagb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:26 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:05:35 josemanuel [~josemanue@243.215.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 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closed the connection] 13:28:58 hi 13:29:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:29:54 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@37.203.68.37] has joined #lisp 13:30:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:24 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:32:21 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33:24 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:35:33 linuxos [~linuxos@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:57 how can denom be (define (denom x) (cdr x)) according to a book 13:36:08 shouldn't it be (define (denom x) (car (cdr x))) 13:36:19 linuxos: ask #scheme. 13:36:20 so that it would print out a number, not a list 13:36:21 What is x? 13:36:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:36:41 (/ 1 0) what is car ? 13:37:10 linuxos: Consider (denom (pair 2 3)) 13:37:38 wbooze: / is car 13:37:48 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-135-128.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:38:45 -!- fenton [~fenton@m121-202-251-34.smartone.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 13:40:18 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:30 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:45:47 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:47:13 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@108-70-143-173.lightspeed.toldoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:47:33 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:45 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:54 Gooder [~Gooder@192.200.155.56] has joined #lisp 13:50:48 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:03 -!- youlysses 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timeout: 256 seconds] 14:02:14 p_nathan [~vlion@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 14:02:47 ckoch786 [~cory@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 14:05:35 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:07:29 -!- Gooder [~Gooder@192.200.155.56] has left #lisp 14:08:03 Gooder [~user@192.200.155.56] has joined #lisp 14:09:31 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 14:10:54 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.242.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:11 depends on if you pas in a dotted list, or not. 14:11:12 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:15:01 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-197-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:15:48 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:16:43 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:16:48 nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:16 -!- 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[~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:43:20 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:41 dlowe: Should I pull local-time from github and not darcs now? 16:45:05 satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:03 ynniv [~ynniv@z69-94-206-168.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:04 wakeup [~user@xdsl-89-0-71-138.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:47:05 hi 16:47:29 how do I control how a condition defined by DEFINE-CONDITION is 16:47:29 pretty printed? 16:47:50 wakeup: the :report option 16:47:53 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 16:48:26 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:41 hmm I'd rather want a variable string (like when using ERROR) 16:48:46 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-168-245-145.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 16:49:21 So... have a format-string slot and a format-parameters slot 16:49:25 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:45 kanru` [~kanru@118-168-245-145.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:08 ah I see 16:50:31 thought :report was supposed to be a string 16:50:47 And now you know better. 16:51:29 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@pool-173-58-100-240.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:52:00 -!- protist [~protist@37.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:53:20 what is the convention behind : and :: in packages? 16:53:37 don't use :: unless you're just manually testing something in the repl 16:54:31 Hmm. lispdoc.com seems to have gone away. Anyone know anything about why? 16:54:35 The double-colon is used for accessing "internal" symbols, and is a direct indication of an abstraction violation. 16:54:39 ok. well... this is the only way to inform cffi-grovel where to look for non-standard include directories 16:54:49 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:54:54 (that I can see) 16:55:14 photex: if there's no exported interface, then just make sure you pay your penance after your sin D: 16:55:30 haha 16:55:36 20 scourgings may be good enough, depending 16:55:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-130.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:55:46 ok, maybe I need to use env vars 16:56:11 because what if I want to use clang++ instead of cc for instance 16:56:23 anyway, thanks for explaining :: 16:56:54 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/962101/how-do-i-get-clsql-to-look-for-mysql-h-in-non-standard-directory you saw this? It looks like you can add the necessary flags to the .asd 16:57:07 AeroNotix [~xeno@abol172.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:57:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:57:44 oi, does anyone have experience how to create tables that use autosequences with postmodern? 16:58:15 sykopomp: yeah... but adding flags to asd files of systems I don't develop... feels so wrong 16:58:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:58:32 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:00:28 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-167-124.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:58 easye: I think it's a casualty of common-lisp.net changes 17:02:48 -!- sdemarre [~serge@55.152-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:03:45 But was it running on the cl.net box? 17:04:50 173.255.228.106 is the IP I have for it from urlm.com. Was this the pre April 2013 box? 17:05:28 I had gotten duckduckgo.com to use lispdoc.com for the "!lisp" operator. 17:07:05 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183239016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:27 I don't know, sorry. 17:08:38 easye: I like l1sp.org 17:09:07 Xach: Thanks anyways. 17:09:24 sykopomp: In what sense? Is there a query interface there? 17:09:52 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:10:00 Oh. "l1sp". 17:10:04 Gotcha. 17:12:45 sykopomp: That was what duckduckgo was using. I thought that lispdoc.com had a better initial results page (more context for each hit). If I can't figure out what happened to lispdoc.com, I'll certainly get them to switch back to that. 17:12:46 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-208-207.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 pnpuff [~o@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:15:07 lispdoc.com did a decent job of linking CLtL2 results, which l1sp.org doesn't seem to include. 17:15:55 Which allowed me to quickly switch back and forth from HyperSpec to CLtL2 to compare. 17:18:32 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 17:19:13 does clozure compile .ccl-init.lisp before evaluating it or something? I can't seem to refer to a package after I use ql:quickload for it. If I just have the quickload calls everything loads fine. 17:19:50 in my sbclrc file I load cffi and then push a path on to cffi:*foreign-library-directories* 17:20:08 but this fails in my ccl init saying that the cffi package doesn't exist 17:20:23 however, I can refer to it in the repl just fine 17:21:17 You have to load CFFI beforehand. 17:21:47 photex: You could try using INTERN to refer to the symbol dynamically at run time. 17:22:03 *easye* doesn't know if CCL compiles its init file. 17:22:05 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183239016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:22:31 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-135-128.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:34 photex: something like (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) #| load CFFI here |#) should work 17:23:09 easye: the difference in behavior suggests that it does 17:23:38 luis: Agreed. 17:24:14 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183239016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.6.180] has joined #lisp 17:32:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.6.180] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:33:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:33:17 thanks luis, easye this is what I have working now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136992 17:33:32 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:33:40 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:34:02 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:34:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:35:11 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 17:35:35 although I need to just remove linedit entirely I guess because it doesn't care for ccl much :P 17:35:53 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 17:39:14 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-10cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: exit(EXIT_FAILURE);] 17:39:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:41:38 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:18 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:42:44 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e183239016.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:42:55 Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177113144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:09 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-245-167.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:25 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 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[Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:36 -!- xan__ [~xan@12.226.90.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:48:37 oudeis [~oudeis@183.233.228.94] has joined #lisp 18:49:04 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:49:39 -!- leo2007 [lsd@SDF.ORG] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:57 photex: btw, setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH is another way to let CFFI (more precisely, dlopen()) know about your custom directory 18:51:31 huangho [~guest@143.54.6.173] has joined #lisp 18:51:59 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-194-96.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:04 luis: blarg! I have no idea why I didn't think about that. 18:53:18 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:54:30 speak of the devil 18:54:37 xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.154] has joined #lisp 18:58:17 frito [~androirc@cpc7-sotn8-2-0-cust231.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:54 zickzackv [~faot@g225051114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:51 |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 <|nix|> hi all 19:03:27 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@pD9F98A57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:03:27 <|nix|> is there a way to use ':' in the name of a symbol (eg: 'name:') 19:04:30 <|nix|> I sort of vaguely remember using '|..|' but unable to find the source. Any links would be most welcome 19:05:46 |nix|: depends on how you want to input it. (intern "FOO:") will work if you're working off string input. 19:05:55 benkard [~benkard@host-188-174-219-76.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 if you want to enter it manually, you can do '|foo:| 19:06:10 *sykopomp* wonders why you even want this. 19:07:13 |FOO:| if you want the same symbol as (intern "FOO:") foo\: works too. 19:07:19 or foo|:| 19:08:01 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:22 |nix|: the specification is http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_ade.htm 19:08:39 (read the whole chapter). 19:09:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:50 <|nix|> thanks all 19:10:12 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:11:23 pnpuff [~flapw@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:11:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:14:09 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:20 -!- _d3f [~gnu@93.114.45.248] has quit [Quit: buy buy] 19:16:20 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:24 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.132.220] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 19:17:36 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g225051114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:21:05 satshabad [~satshabad@host-134-71-47-37.allocated.csupomona.edu] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc7-sotn8-2-0-cust231.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 19:22:02 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@183.233.228.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:01 IPmonger [~IPmonger@50.146.185.242] has joined #lisp 19:23:24 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:23:34 -!- IPmonger [~IPmonger@50.146.185.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:55 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:04 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:26:50 hi 19:28:58 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:23 oudeis [~oudeis@183.233.228.94] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 s-1 [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:57 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-137.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:41:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:42:20 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:52 La0fer [~Laofers1@66.85.140.163] has joined #lisp 19:47:31 -!- satshabad [~satshabad@host-134-71-47-37.allocated.csupomona.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:49:20 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:41 dysoco [~dysoco@190.178.224.77] has joined #lisp 19:50:16 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:50:17 Is there anything like Lispbox for Windows? Because Lispbox was last updated in 2011 19:50:39 basically it's a simple installer that gets you running in an Emacs with SLIME and Clozure quickly. 19:51:00 dysoco: there is one that include quicklisp (which I think came out after '11) 19:51:18 hmm I guess it was out in '11 19:51:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:52:41 dysoco: did you run into any issues with the one from feb of '11? 19:52:54 not really 19:53:03 I just thought I shouldn't be using old software 19:53:05 I wouldn't worry about it then 19:53:12 although it's just for learning Lisp for now 19:53:13 I see then 19:53:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:53:50 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:54:05 dysoco: I regularly use lisp stuff that is 10 years or more old. No problem. Things are a bit different in lisp land :-) 19:54:19 Glad to hear that 19:54:29 -!- m6502 [~user@lisp.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:30 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:46 -!- tophalf01 is now known as log 19:58:00 -!- log is now known as logman 19:58:06 -!- logman is now known as loggerman 19:58:11 What book do you suggest for learning? Practical Common Lisp ? 19:59:44 If you're already a programmer, yes. 19:59:56 Otherwise Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/dst/www/LispBook/index.html 20:00:20 Yeah I checked PCL and it was nice so far, and I have already used other languages such as C and even read half of SCIP 20:00:45 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@183.233.228.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:52 I enjoyed PCL. 20:01:21 I'd have to say On Lisp by Paul Graham 20:02:42 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 20:02:59 nahiluhmot: the general groupthink is that that is not a good book for learning Lisp. (I think it's not a bad book for reading once you have already learnt Lisp as it is generally used) 20:03:14 I thought On Lisp was for people that already knew Lisp. 20:04:07 Krystof: I suppose. I used it to learn Lisp, but then again I was already pretty familiar with functional programming at that point. 20:04:19 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:04:40 Thinking back, I'm sure there probably were easier books such as the ones mentioned above. 20:04:54 -!- huangho [~guest@143.54.6.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:05:01 The_third_man [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:38 dysoco: If you want there is a wiki with an useful page to getting started with Common Lisp: http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started , take a look at http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-windows/ ( <-- a very good start point ) or at http://lispcabinet.sourceforge.net/ . Good luck ! 20:05:53 Thanks 20:06:16 I normally use Linus though, it's just that I don't have it installed for now because I need this for work. 20:06:21 Linux 20:06:31 And it really is a mess 20:09:26 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00223a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:09:29 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-244-155.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:41 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@109.163.155.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:11:17 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-228-79.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:11:28 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:32 -!- pnpuff [~flapw@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:11:32 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:15:16 pnpuff [~flapw@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:15:45 i enjoyed Grahams ACL, although I agree that it is slightly weird. Norvig's PAIP is very nice too. 20:15:46 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:16:13 thing with PCL is that not everybody is a web and database person 20:16:54 PAIP has lectures in it. 20:17:16 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.81] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:43 That's the AI book? 20:17:47 yes 20:17:50 it rocks 20:17:55 I'm interested in AI, is it any good for learning Lisp? 20:18:06 i think it is. 20:18:49 huangho [~guest@177.2.150.194] has joined #lisp 20:19:02 PAIP is more for learning how to program, and somewhat about lisp (though it's more a CLtL1 than an ANSI CL tutorial), and less about Real AI Programming. 20:19:12 xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.86] has joined #lisp 20:19:21 Oh I see 20:19:30 Then I guess I will use PCL for now 20:20:03 dysoco: PAIP is my favorite book about programming 20:20:41 PAIP in a way is about how lisp is supposed to be used, I think. 20:20:56 Uh, then I will check it out 20:21:05 it's supposed to be used for gofai? 20:21:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:21:39 Sure, but Real AI Programming these days is far more statistical, AFAICT. 20:21:50 nyef: for that you have AIMA :) 20:22:04 -!- |nix| [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has left #lisp 20:22:10 Right. Well, *I* don't, but yeah. 20:22:18 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:22:46 nyef: it's also a great book 20:23:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 Yeah, Machine Learning and Data Mining are big areas in AI 20:23:23 Yeah, I'm hoping to have a copy of AIMA of my own one of these days. 20:23:34 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@109.163.159.176] has joined #lisp 20:23:48 Artificial Intelligence a Modern Approach? Nice book. 20:23:56 Not read the whole thing though. 20:25:33 some old pic http://i.imgur.com/ouYiC.jpeg ;) 20:27:20 dysoco: do you know who is Edward Feigenbaum? 20:27:31 you have The History of Western Philosophy too ? nice 20:27:35 pnpuff, hm... nope. 20:27:48 yeah I have a bunch of Russell books 20:27:53 sdemarre [~serge@55.152-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:28:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:03 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-14-160.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:16 Although I don't have any "real" programming books: Living in Argentina is kind of complicated since a lot of books don't get translated and stores don't sell English books. 20:28:41 dysoco: many of those I had to wait months for since there's no local amazon here either 20:28:52 pjb [~user@AMontsouris-651-1-14-160.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:28:53 I see 20:29:04 buying via internet is complicated here, so I don't do it 20:29:29 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:29:55 gret, my 'ei' key just broke 20:29:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:30:16 well dmn 20:31:36 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 20:31:52 xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.154] has joined #lisp 20:34:07 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:35:20 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:35:42 dysoco: read a bit about dendral if you want ... 20:36:34 Oh I see 20:36:55 -!- benkard [~benkard@host-188-174-219-76.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:38:12 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abog161.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:38:46 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:42:54 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@109.163.159.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:42:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:43:33 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:57 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:44:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:48:33 Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:53 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:12 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:52 -!- sdemarre [~serge@55.152-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:02:19 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.48] has joined #lisp 21:03:12 -!- pnpuff [~flapw@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:11 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:08:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:09:50 -!- sempiternity43 [~sempitern@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:11:58 Blueblaze [~Blueblaze@adsl-99-158-45-47.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:15 dysoco: xmodmap might »fix« your keyboard problem ;) 21:12:55 sempiternity43 [~sempitern@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:06 -!- agumonkey [~agu@238.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:20:02 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 21:21:11 ejohnson1 [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:11 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:12 -!- wat is now known as mgsk 21:22:32 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 21:23:13 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:26 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:33 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-68-3.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:28:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:24 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d4bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:10 -!- crazydiamond [~crazydiam@static-92-39-68-121.kirov.comstar-r.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:50 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-68-3.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:33:00 -!- rk[fishing] is now known as ryankarason 21:33:47 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-194-96.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:18 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:36:51 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:38:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-68-3.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:38:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:39:26 drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-147-108-214.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:01 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:46:34 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:42 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:47:29 Hello lispers - after a couple of months of hard work I think I have ECL CLOS compiling and running on my Common Lisp compiler. 21:48:05 I had to do something unpleasant at the very end to get it to work though and I wonder if anyone could help me understand what is going on. 21:48:25 Here are two snippets of code that gave me a lot of grief over the past few days: http://pastebin.com/BDD2M4v7 21:48:32 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 21:48:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:23 This is part of the ECL bootstrapping code - functions are being converted into generic functions in the final stage of bootstrapping. 21:49:41 do you have a backtrace of the loop? 21:50:04 I can't get that. 21:50:31 It goes into an infinite loop. 21:50:53 How do you compute the applicable methods for compute-applicable-methods? 21:51:14 oh, you know it's in g-f-method-class though. 21:51:53 zacharias, I am using xmodmap but given all the broken keys I have I ran out of keys :P 21:52:07 I had to remap backspace, enter, shift, ctrl, { and a couple more. 21:53:37 It doesn't make it into g-f-method-class. It looks like it during dispatching to g-f-method-class it goes into an infinite loop. 21:54:02 I'm just preparing a pastebin of std-compute-applicable-methods - give me a sec. 21:54:28 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 21:55:36 Ok, I put tracing calls in my compiled code and the infinite loop is mostly within std-compute-applicable-methods, sort-applicable-methods and applicable-method-p - here is std-compute-applicable-methods: http://pastebin.com/D0snSxxV 21:56:05 drmeister: Oh. Is aux-compute-applicable-methods used anywhere else? If not, consider clearing it after copying it to compute-applicable-methods or before doing the defgeneric or defmethod. Otherwise you might be overwriting the currently-in-use definition of compute-applicable-methods. 21:57:39 No, aux-compute-applicable-methods is not used anywhere else. It looks like it is created for the sole purpose of sticking it into the (fdefinition 'compute-applicable-methods) in the first code snippet. 21:58:43 I got around the problem by loading everything up to but not including fixup.lsp and then compiling fixup.lsp. Once I do that I can load all the compiled fasl files and CLOS and generic functions appear to work fine. 21:58:48 So, it's to allow the definition of the "real" compute-applicable-methods without running into the situation where you need it to already be defined in order to define it? 21:59:26 nyef: I think that's it - it's the chicken and egg problem of bootstrapping. 22:00:31 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.48] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:00:41 Wait, wait, so you have the defgeneric commented out in the code that loops? Why? 22:00:46 So, if both aux-compute-applicable-methods and compute-applicable-methods are the same (EQ) function, then trying to redefine it could run into problems. Breaking the equality should allow the new definition to work. 22:01:21 Bike: It's commented out in the ECL code - I try to leave the ECL code as close to the original as possible. 22:01:35 hrm. 22:03:32 A compile time side-effect of DEFMETHOD is to call ensure-generic-function on line 43 of the first code snippets I posted - http://pastebin.com/BDD2M4v7 22:04:08 It is immediately after that ensure-generic-function call that it goes into an infinite loop. 22:04:26 When I'm compiling the code, not when I'm loading the code. 22:05:06 To clarify, the way ECL bootstraps itself is they load all of the CL source code and byte-code compile it. Then that CL system compiles itself into "C" code. 22:05:12 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-194-96.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:49 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-194-96.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:26 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-006-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:06:57 I do something similar. I load my compiler as FASL files and then I was loading all of CLOS, including the final file "fixup.lsp" which is doing this bootstrapping gymnastics and then I compile all of the CLOS files again. 22:08:08 So this (defmethod -aux-compute-applicable-methods...) form causes ensure-generic-function to be invoked THREE times (load time macro expansion time, load-time run-time, compile-time macro expansion time). 22:09:27 Okay, it's time for me to head out. I'll wish you luck getting this bootstrap bug sorted. 22:09:28 Immediately after the compile-time macro expansion time, it goes into an infinite loop when trying to call GENERIC-FUNCTION-METHOD-CLASS on line 44 of the first code snippets http://pastebin.com/BDD2M4v7 22:09:36 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-50-157-244-41.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 22:09:49 nyef: Thank you - it helps just to try and explain it to someone else. 22:10:11 Bike: I think I need to put more time into getting a backtrace. 22:10:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:06 they're pretty useful 22:11:17 I can put a counter into std-compute-applicable-methods that triggers generation of a backtrace if it does too many levels of recursion. 22:12:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:13:24 I've been adding a lot of debugging facilities to the compiler - but I can only take advantage of them on a Linux system because of quirks of the OS X development system (ancient gdb is standard, new gdb can use DWARF but can't be installed on OS X). 22:13:37 I'm working on getting access to a Linux system that I can install everything on. 22:13:47 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-56-133.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 22:13:58 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-56-133.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 22:13:58 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 22:14:04 It's going to be sweet once it's all working. 22:15:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:15:44 What I don't get about this is why compiling (defmethod aux-compute-applicable-methods ...) would have any effect on compute-applicable-methods. 22:15:59 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-dev] 22:16:54 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:18:28 Once I do my goofy work around (load everything but fixup.lsp, compile fixup.lsp, restart, load all FASL files including fixup.lsp) I can (defmethod aux-compute-applicable-methods...) and compile-file (defmethod aux...) 'til the cows come home - it doesn't have a problem with it. 22:18:43 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:07 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-79-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:20:08 I've made a point of not letting any goofy work arounds just slide - I want to develop an industrial strength compiler that doesn't depend on a bunch of bandaid solutions. 22:20:53 Anyway, thanks for your feedback - I'll work on getting a backtrace and I'll be back. 22:21:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@mobile-166-147-108-214.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:29 Snamich [~Snamich@71-9-62-86.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:31 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:25:15 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-114-148.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:31 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:42 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:28:24 Incorrect_ [~Incorrect@c-71-207-142-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:28 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.151.37] has joined #lisp 22:29:11 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has joined #lisp 22:30:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:30:12 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@47-164-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:30:20 -!- loggerman [~Incorrect@c-71-207-142-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:30:48 -!- Incorrect_ [~Incorrect@c-71-207-142-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:24 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:31:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:31:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 22:32:59 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:38:56 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@wsip-68-15-43-240.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:08 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.242.183] has joined #lisp 22:39:40 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:16 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:42 tophalf01 [~tophalf01@c-71-207-142-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:49 Are there any canonic utility libraries for slurping files and other similar line-oriented unixy stuff? 22:47:03 drmeister: the gdb distributed with Xcode 4 uses DWARF. 22:47:07 any Arch user here ? 22:47:11 fe[nl]ix: yes 22:47:27 antoszka: not that i know of. i roll my own when i need it. 22:47:32 antoszka: alexandria has something 22:47:50 i'll have a look into alexandria then, thx 22:48:05 antoszka: you mean like com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.browser:cat et al? 22:48:07 madnificent: I now have a repository containing libfixposix: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/home:/sionescu/Arch/ 22:48:07 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:13 madnificent: can you check that it works ? 22:48:15 pjb: Yes, but I can only use that if I compile my fasl files down to OS X bundles. 22:48:37 pjb: Currently I compile files to LLVM bitcode files which I can then compile offline down to native object files. 22:48:39 pjb: maybe ;) 22:49:00 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:18 fe[nl]ix: I use arch too.. define works? 22:49:21 antoszka: check https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/interactive 22:49:25 ok 22:49:51 The issue is that with all this debugging I'm doing I'm working with bitcode files all the time and gdb 6.x on OS X doesn't hook into LLVM properly to get DWARF information from just-in-time compiled code. 22:49:52 adeht: that you can set it up, sync it and install libfixposix from it 22:50:17 drmeister: well if you generate llvm, you should probably use lldb instead. 22:50:19 bah, the alexandria ones only will slurp with pathnames, not with open streams 22:50:21 fe[nl]ix: hmmm I downloaded the .xz file and ran pacman -U on it 22:50:27 fe[nl]ix: and it installed fine 22:50:29 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:51 fe[nl]ix: (x86-64) 22:51:01 pjb: I haven't made that leap yet. I spent a lot of time with lldb but I'm still transitioning from gdb to lldb. 22:51:23 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 22:52:18 fe[nl]ix: no pkgbuild so we can build it ourselves? (if not, i can try the xz like adeht said, though i don't think that will fetch the necessary dependencies) 22:53:06 On gdb I can get primitive backtraces and examine variables. On lldb I can get great backtraces and source-line debugging but I can't examine variables yet. 22:54:47 madnificent: https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file?expand=1&file=PKGBUILD&package=libfixposix&project=home%3Asionescu 22:55:01 madnificent: but I'd rather be able to push updates 22:56:17 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:56:20 madnificent: libfixposix has no dependency you don't already have 22:56:36 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@70.42.157.32] has joined #lisp 22:56:49 but I want to know if the repository itself is alright, including the metadata, not just the single packages 22:57:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:57:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59:11 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:59:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:59:45 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-68-3.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:01:16 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 23:01:51 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 23:03:37 fe[nl]ix: anything else to test except from installing? plus, with the pkgbuild, you could get it in AUR, which means i can install it with a single line :) 23:03:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-194.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:04:57 -!- Nosceteipsum [~Nosceteip@e177113144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:05:45 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:06:06 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:06:16 madnificent: what do I have to do to get push access into the AUR ? 23:06:53 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:07:00 fe[nl]ix: i have never done it, but AFAIK: create a user on https://aur.archlinux.org/ and upload 23:07:52 fe[nl]ix: others will know more about this. i'm not a seasoned arch user 23:09:28 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-241-73.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:09:39 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-241-73.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:51 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-241-73.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-50-12.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:10 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:10:51 xan_ [~xan@12.226.90.154] has joined #lisp 23:12:11 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:13:14 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 23:15:13 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:42 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@70.42.157.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:06 dudebr0 [~dudebr0@unaffiliated/dudebr0] has joined #lisp 23:17:43 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 23:22:29 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:23:45 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:20 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:27:03 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-77.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:28:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:29:20 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:30:55 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 23:32:35 tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has joined #lisp 23:32:57 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:32:58 Hi! Is there a way to find out what systems an ASDF system depends on? 23:33:25 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:32 Or Quicklisp one, for that matter. Kind of the opposite of QL:WHO-DEPENDS-ON 23:33:50 asdf:component-depends-on? 23:34:59 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:24 bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has joined #lisp 23:35:37 It asks for an operation, though. I think I found it in quicklisp, though: ql-dist:dependency-tree 23:35:40 Thanks! 23:36:19 well, yeah, there can be different dependencies for compile-op and load-op and stuff. 23:38:24 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:40:37 Makes sense. Will figure out how to call it. 23:40:40 Thanks! 23:40:42 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has quit [Quit: GG] 23:41:08 (asdf:c-d-o 'asdf:load-op (asdf:find-system :hunchentoot)) 23:42:33 -!- cons is now known as cond 23:43:14 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.13.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:44:08 -!- axion [~axion@66.231.120.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:46:12 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:19 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@boots.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:47:55 antifuchs [~foobar@boots.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:00 ASau` [~user@p5797F5CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:49:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:50:03 linuxos [~linuxos@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:00 could anyone guide me to a implementation of common lisp? 23:51:14 sbcl, ccl? 23:51:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-61.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:51:32 clozure, clisp ? 23:52:18 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:52:33 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F63D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:35 http://common-lisp.net/~dlw/LispSurvey.html 23:53:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:55:12 (this document needs someone to care and feed it) 23:55:48 is common lisp an implementation or a specification? 23:56:04 it's a language, specified by a specification/standard 23:56:10 clhs 23:56:13 linuxos: it is a specification, but there are quite a few free implementations available 23:56:39 minion: tell linuxos about clhs 23:56:40 linuxos: please look at clhs: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 23:56:52 what is the "best" implementation for practical usage? 23:57:06 What's the best beer? 23:57:07 ccl and sbcl are both pretty good 23:57:32 heiniken 23:57:33 billstclair: hoegaarden 23:57:58 *billstclair* uses CCL, but he also works for Clozure 23:58:56 -!- poi519 [~danil@91.199.35.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:59:28 oh, Clozure is CCL 23:59:38 tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has joined #lisp 23:59:46 Clozure Common Lisp, was Coral Common Lisp, then Macintosh Common Lisp