00:03:48 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:04:09 -!- sci [~ismith@ool-457a713a.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:04:54 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: (IRC Client: textualapp.com)] 00:05:02 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:07 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:05:44 -!- ASau` [~user@p5797F473.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:44 -!- vibhu [~zorro@host86-145-75-171.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:54 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:06:59 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 00:07:04 ASau` [~user@p5797F473.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:08:59 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 00:09:28 walter [~walter@ip-64-134-101-130.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:40 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:37 I am inheriting from simple-condition in a define-condition form, and am trying to add a default argument to format-control with the :initform slot option, however I get two different format-control slots. How exactly does slot-inheritance work for conditions? 00:12:45 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13:36 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:15:16 The Hyperspec says "If the type being defined and some other type from which it inherits have a slot by the same name, only one slot is allocated in the condition, but the supplied slot overrides any slot form that might otherwise have been inherited from a parent type." But this isn't what happens under SBCL and CCL for me. I get two slots with the same name 00:15:19 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:41 Where does it say that in the hyperspec? 00:15:56 What does your define-condition form look like? 00:16:38 It says that in the definition for define-condition in the conditions dictionary 00:17:08 Vicfred [~anon@189.232.59.205] has joined #lisp 00:17:39 Let me just confirm with my lisp system and give you an example on paste.lisp.org 00:17:54 k0001 [~k0001@host167.190-224-63.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:17:58 ok 00:18:59 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 00:23:57 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:25:11 Here's a short example of what I mean http://paste.lisp.org/display/136882 00:26:20 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 00:27:53 breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-244.uwnet.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 00:28:13 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:29:35 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 00:30:22 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-81.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:32:02 ohnoitsavram: the name of the slot initialized with :format-control is not specified. it is not named by a standard CL symbol. 00:32:23 so when you use FORMAT-CONTROL, it's MY-PACKAGE::FORMAT-CONTROL, a different name, making a different slot 00:32:24 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:43 ohnoitsavram: you could use (:default-initargs :format-control "Eggs!") instead 00:33:39 That makes sense. I'm gonna try a few things out. 00:34:13 dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:33 -!- _d3f [~gnu@93.114.45.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:57 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:18 agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:00 jaffe_ [~Johan@selje.idi.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 00:36:39 -!- jaffe_ [~Johan@selje.idi.ntnu.no] has left #lisp 00:42:45 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jagaj] 00:43:25 Xach: I found the symbol in the ccl package so if I use as ccl::format-control as the slot-name I can override the slot in simple-condition. Which leads me to my next question. Is there any library that does exports these symbols and maybe makes conditions all have the metaclass standard class? Something like trivial-gray-streams but for conditions? Or is this too much hackery? 00:43:27 -!- ravster [~ravi@71-19-174-130.dedicated.allstream.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:29 Also thanks! 00:44:12 That is a terrible idea. 00:44:17 Just use :default-initargs. 00:44:36 Oh I know, I just wanted to see if it could be done 00:44:37 Guaranteed to work. 00:44:49 Yes it can be done, no it is not a good use of anyone's time. 00:45:47 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-247-99.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:21 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:41 -!- breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-244.uwnet.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:48:21 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 00:53:43 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:35 sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.241.166] has joined #lisp 00:58:42 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host167.190-224-63.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:58:57 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 01:02:40 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:03:04 -!- walter [~walter@ip-64-134-101-130.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:03:41 KDr2 [~KDr2@111.161.70.16] has joined #lisp 01:06:24 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:54 breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-244.uwnet.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 01:13:13 I've been messing around with ECL and hunchentoot, and I've been wondering... how do I start a hunchentoot server without the repl? do I write a .lisp file and execute it with `ecl myfile.lisp' and make sure myfile.lisp loads hunchentoot etc.? 01:17:05 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:10 k0001 [~k0001@host130.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:19:13 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 01:20:34 hiro_ox [~loqui@60.32.133.198] has joined #lisp 01:21:07 with sbcl (I haven't used sbcl) you use things like sbcl --load or --script or --core to pull in a file, run with special script settings, or use an image dump respectively 01:21:27 alright 01:21:38 what if I want it to run in the background? 01:21:48 I suppose I could nohup | ecl myfile.lisp & but that's nasty 01:22:00 use dtach or screen, probably 01:22:07 heh 01:22:15 on my server I just start emacs and load my stuff,then detach from screen 01:22:17 no, really. 01:22:20 is there no way to make a common lisp daemon or something 01:22:21 works nice to pop on and check things later 01:22:34 not unlike httpd 01:22:54 well there's http://wandrian.net/2012-02-20-1958-lisp-daemons-with-sbcl.html but that won't help with ecl. 01:23:08 is there any way to compile sbcl if the system doesnt have lisp installed? 01:23:23 I downloaded source for a centos 5 server today and it said no lisp instance to compile sh make.sh 01:23:26 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:42 I guess ill have to yum install clisp and use that to compile sbcl? 01:23:45 ahungry: much of the code is in CL, so... 01:24:14 I dont remember how I installed sbcl on my centos 6 server but it worked from source fine 01:24:21 maybe i had clisp on it 01:24:37 Bike: this link will help me a lot thanks 01:25:23 easier to install an SBCL binary first. 01:27:05 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-184-43.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:28:33 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:02 ahungry: much better to get an sbcl binary from www.sbcl.org 01:32:36 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:32:37 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:32:45 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-aqqmvtkmqfilhszw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:32:45 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:38:12 thanks guys 01:38:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:38:44 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:50 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host130.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:09 -!- agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:47:27 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:37 coleman- [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 01:55:42 what is the reason many seem to prefer #'func over 'func when either can be used? 01:56:18 #'func can refer to lexically scoped functions. 01:56:35 "when either can be used" 01:56:41 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 01:57:00 Consider the introduction of a lexically scoped function via a macro. 01:57:45 that overrides the global function? 01:57:57 The shadows the global function. 01:58:01 s/The/That/ 02:00:00 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:01:55 <|3b|> the only time they are completely interchangeable is when FUNC is some function in the CL package, since any other function can be redefined, in which case they could refer to different functions at some point in the future 02:03:19 -!- eee [~user@c50-26-74-15.amrlcmtk01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 02:03:50 <|3b|> both behaviors can be useful, but when you want the global function (and know there is no lexical function shadowing it) and expect the function to not change, it is mostly a matter of preference 02:04:29 <|3b|> #' might be a tiny bit faster, since it is guaranteed to only be looked up once that way, and also has the advantage of being more clear that you are using it as a function 02:06:11 I would have expected ' to be a bit faster. 02:06:24 But implementations ... 02:07:13 <|3b|> well, it has to look up the function from the symbol at some point, so it has to do the equivalent of #' eventually 02:08:01 <|3b|> and if i remember right, it isn't specified whether that only happens once or on every call for CL functions, and user functions could do either as well 02:08:20 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:44 *|3b|* hasn't actually tested though, since i don't expect it to matter enough for me to care either way 02:09:11 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 02:11:05 -!- Czechton [~Czechton@cpc4-oxfd23-2-0-cust877.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:12:10 I thought it didn't have to respect redefinition within the same file, at least. But fair enough. 02:13:00 <|3b|> direct calls within a file (or compilation-unit) can ignore redefinition, not sure if funcall can though 02:13:27 <|3b|> funcall of a function seems faster than funcall of a symbol on sbcl at least 02:15:46 duane rettig had a great post somewhere in the mists of time about how allegro achieved super-great performance at funcalling a symbol. 02:15:50 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:02 <|3b|> at least i thought it applied to 'compilation unit's, might only be COMPILE-FILE 02:17:13 only compile-file. 02:17:16 *Xach* should usenet-legendarize duane rettig sometime 02:19:22 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 02:23:21 Xach: ? 02:23:27 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-151-107.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:37 I don't know how I can be any more clear. 02:23:56 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:00 Xach: I'll clarify: Who is DR, why was he a legendar, and why isn't he now? 02:25:02 Hey folks, I've spent the past week trying to generate DWARF debugging information for common lisp and I'm starting to think that Common Lisp is incompatible with DWARF. 02:25:07 Duane Rettig is a Franz employee since small times who has great stories of hardware hacking 02:25:08 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:36 Performance tuning for various platforms that were once popular but aren't already, but also for x86 and stuff. 02:25:40 arent any more, that is. 02:26:01 He doesn't post to comp.lang.lisp any more. I don't know his specific reason, but a lot of people who used to post there don't anymore, so who knows. 02:26:06 Ahh... I misread "usenet" as "unset" :-) 02:26:40 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26:54 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:18 Xach: Speaking of performance. For a long time, everybody was hating on Java and Lisp because it was "slow". 02:27:30 c.l.l is hard to follow cause of the WJ noise :(. But I've found google's search feature very useful. 02:27:33 Now... Everybody are talking about Ruby and Python and seems to have forgotten about slowness 02:27:34 :-) 02:27:38 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:28:06 is WJ still doing that? 02:28:10 Bike: yes 02:28:20 christ 02:28:26 about once per week he floods the group with 10-20 posts at a time 02:28:45 lasts for a few days, and then dies down for a few more days before he starts again 02:28:53 Yes, it's pretty frustrating. Even with killfiling, the collateral damage is rough. 02:30:21 At least that other troll seems to have left for now. I can't remember his name, but all he ever did was answer everything with "what does X have to do with your inabaility to Y, NN" 02:31:39 k0001 [~k0001@host130.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:32:13 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:16 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:32:16 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:32:37 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.211] has joined #lisp 02:33:21 -!- coleman- [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has quit [Quit: IRCGate CGI:IRC User (EOF)] 02:33:42 -!- Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:37:15 momo-reina [~user@109.123.79.238] has joined #lisp 02:37:47 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:38:56 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:06 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:40:33 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:41:26 ugh 02:42:59 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.211] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:45:15 Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:11 erikc_ [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:57 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-151-107.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:50:51 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:51:42 -!- breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-244.uwnet.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:52:01 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 02:55:52 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:11 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-72-225-195-95.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:59:06 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:59:17 meiji11 [~user@d75-158-41-148.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:26 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 02:59:50 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:01:51 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-szigfftknjxgpafd] has joined #lisp 03:02:38 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has joined #lisp 03:03:08 -!- Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:03:42 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:05:41 gmcastil [~user@64.134.151.107] has joined #lisp 03:07:02 ldionmarcil, you could use cl-launch to run your software 03:08:17 screen is a good way to run cl software, especially combined with emacs or at least rlwrap 03:08:29 momo-rei` [~user@aa20111001946f573a4c.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:09:58 -!- momo-reina [~user@109.123.79.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:18 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:05 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 03:18:24 teggi [~teggi@123.20.27.23] has joined #lisp 03:18:44 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.176.79] has left #lisp 03:21:01 I wonder if anyone has advice on a problem I'm running into generating DWARF debugging info for Common Lisp code. 03:21:31 The problem is when I compile (defun foo (x) (+ x 3)) I generate two functions - two blocks of code. 03:21:48 is that a problem? 03:21:51 One that represents the repl code (defun foo ...) 03:21:58 The other represents the function FOO. 03:22:10 what's the problem? 03:22:27 Fare: It seems to be, because the DWARF line number information assigns two large code regions to one line number. 03:22:37 is that not allowed? 03:22:52 even in C, many statements can all refer to the same line of code 03:22:56 foo() ; bar () ; 03:23:23 Going in I didn't think it would be a problem. But now that I've implemented it I can't get lldb (the LLVM debugger) to read the DWARF line number table properly. 03:23:57 Fare, Yeah, but those are consecutive calls. 03:24:00 at the very worst, you could have two pseudo-files foo.lisp_load-toplevel vs foo.lisp_execute 03:24:27 That might be one way to deal with it. 03:24:29 might be a bug in lldb 03:25:44 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:26:20 It might be. 03:27:22 I started me thinking though - since common lisp can be so compact (defun foo (x) #'(lambda (y) (+ 3 ) x)) generates three functions. 03:27:49 And these other languages that DWARF was designed for trudge along with more or less one statement per line. 03:28:05 mapping multiple code regions to one line should be fine, it's a must for C++ templates 03:28:18 which lldb works fine with, last i checked 03:28:48 Maybe you are right. Maybe the problem is still in my line number table. I think I need to put this aside for a while. 03:29:07 i'd make a simple C++ template instantiation test and dump the dwarf 03:29:08 I'm going a little nuts trying to figure it out and I'm driving the folks over in #llvm nuts as well. (sigh) 03:29:37 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 03:29:40 That's a very good point about C++ templates - they are primitive macros. 03:29:59 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-184-43.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:29:59 They can instantiate functions. 03:30:05 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 dunno about lldb, but gdb also maps a breakpoint on such a line to all the matching code regions 03:31:10 I'll try that. Its just that clang++ generates sooo much metadata for even the smallest test case. 03:33:25 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:33:43 Thanks. 03:34:20 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:36:37 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:19 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:44:30 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host130.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:44:43 Gooder [~user@192.200.155.65] has joined #lisp 03:46:32 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:48:50 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:42 foo () { bar (); } bar () { baz () ; } 03:50:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-22-168.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:51:06 ogamita` [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:18 -!- momo-rei` [~user@aa20111001946f573a4c.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:24 -!- ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:24 -!- minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:30 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:46 minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 03:51:51 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:40 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:55:53 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-212-12.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:56:25 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:57:39 -!- gmcastil [~user@64.134.151.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:57:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:04:31 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:09 -!- kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 04:10:27 k0001 [~k0001@host167.190-224-63.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:14:02 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:20:49 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:25:12 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:59 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:30:24 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 04:31:37 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 04:32:42 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 04:33:29 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:34:50 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:37:00 Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:31 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:22 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:35 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 04:42:36 Hi! So, I'm having to deal with files containing square brackets (like #p"/tmp/test[one]"), which SBCL intrprets as wildcards. I followed advice on mailing list in using SB-EXT:NATIVE-PATHNAME first, which gives me #p"/tmp/test\\[one]". Problem is, when I pass that to CL-FAD:PATHNAME-AS-DIRECTORY, I get #p"/tmp/test\\\\[one]", which no longer represents the actual physical path. Apparently MAKE-PATHNAME is escaping the \\. 04:42:42 What would be the best way to deal with this? 04:43:27 tigranes: what CL, and what OS? 04:43:41 SBCL 1.1.4 on Linux 04:44:02 is your filename really test\[one] ? 04:44:12 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:44:12 square brackets and backslashes in a filename. that's rare 04:44:48 ah wait 04:44:51 I missed the first part 04:45:33 Yeah, it's just test[one], which SB-EXT:NATIVE-PATHNAME escapes to #p"test\\[one]" 04:47:55 why do you use native-pathname? 04:48:08 oticat` [~oticat@114-25-207-35.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:36 Because otherwise SBCL treats it as a wild pathname, which limits what I can do with it. 04:49:19 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:49:24 tigranes: you can create the pathanme in a standard way: 04:49:52 (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "tmp" "test[one]")) 04:51:05 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:52:00 Anyway, your problem comes from the fact that cl-fad is broken 04:52:13 sorry 04:52:15 :-) 04:52:27 But it's not CL-FAD, actually, but MAKE-PATHNAME that escapes stuff 04:52:40 no it is cl-fad 04:52:51 they use file-namestring when they should in fact use pathname-name 04:52:58 (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "tmp" "test\\[one]") :name nil :type nil) returns #p"/tmp/test\\\\[one]") 04:53:20 look at the implementation of the function and replace the call to file-namestring and it'll work 04:53:50 Aah.. 04:53:53 I see now 04:54:23 you should file a bug report on cl-fad for that 04:54:33 or offer a pull request 04:54:48 Will do. Thanks for your help! 04:55:14 don't use cl-fad, use uiop 04:55:27 and send bug reports to uiop if any bug is found. 04:56:18 what is the uiop version of pathname-as-directory 04:56:19 ? 04:56:46 I'd still argue that cl-fac should be fixed, given the fact that it's clearly broken and lots of projects use it 04:56:50 ensure-directory-pathname 04:56:52 cl-fad even 04:57:11 it might have the same bug, though 04:57:21 what you're doing is not very portable. 04:57:26 It does have the same bug :-) 04:57:26 it does 04:58:00 loke: what do you REALLY want to do? 04:58:09 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:21 what about parse-native-namestring or parse-unix-namestring ? 04:58:36 I don't want to do anything. I'mhelping out tigranes 04:58:44 He's the one who found the bug 04:58:49 tigranes: what do you really want to do? 04:59:20 and btw, welcome to the braindead world of CL pathnames 04:59:41 if what you want is low-level file access, you might be interested in iolib 05:00:08 -!- erikc_ [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc_] 05:00:14 Fare: My understanding is that he plainly want to work with filenames with square brackets in them. That's farily reasonable to me 05:00:35 where does he get the filename from? 05:00:46 hardwired in his program? from the filesystem? 05:01:19 from the filesystem ==> directory ought to give correct answer 05:01:20 s 05:01:28 Fare: The problem is that if you have a pathname that holds a filename with square brackets in them, the functions we've discussed in cl-fad and uiop returns the wrong name. 05:01:44 Fare: everywhere else, it works correctly. 05:01:51 no 05:02:02 Fare: really? 05:02:06 you "just" need to properly quote the brackets 05:02:13 unhappily, that's a non-portable operation 05:02:28 the function is not supposed to work in this case 05:02:42 not portably in such cases 05:03:26 Sorry, stepped away. Reading backlog. 05:03:28 Fare: right, but pathname-name returns the name. file-namestring returns the escaped name which is not what should be passed in as parameter to make-pathname (when the part is a list specifier) 05:03:57 That's my understanding, although I don't deny that I may be wrong. 05:04:04 there's no "should". The standard is vastly under specified there 05:04:54 it over-specifies pathnames as being too much for too many different people and ends up under-specifying for real work by real people. 05:05:00 Fare: loke is right, I do want to work with filenames that have brackets in them. Apparently they're very popular among certain kinds of torrent files. 05:05:13 where do you get the name from? 05:05:26 from the filesystem? then use the filesystem! 05:05:36 Fare: Passed to the script (i.e. the lisp program) by the bittorent client 05:05:39 if you're using directory, you don't need to convert the name. 05:06:05 i think common lisp is broken in this area. if you absolutely must deal with non-portable pathnames, you need to give up on using pathnames, as they are designed to deal with portable path names. 05:06:05 using cl pathnames 05:06:15 if you need to do things like that, then (1) either use a portable library like iolib, or (2) pick an implementation and use implementation-specific tricks. 05:06:21 sdemarre [~serge@233.154-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:06:34 Fare: when you pass in names on a command line, and you want it to behave like any other Unix utility, you'd expect to be able to specify /tmp as /tmp, and not be forced to use /tmp/ 05:06:49 that's what parse-native-namestring is for 05:06:52 Fare: That's where the ensure-directory-thingy comes in 05:07:02 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 05:07:14 and if you want to make it a directory, add a / at the end before you parse-native-namestring 05:07:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.4.61] has joined #lisp 05:07:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.4.61] has quit [Changing host] 05:07:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:07:53 Fare: so why does ensure-directory-pathname even exist then? 05:08:08 to handle the common case portably 05:08:14 Becuase to me, it does exactly what one normally wants it to do 05:08:31 but consider, e.g. logical pathnames. 05:08:42 Fare: Right, but you can handle even more cases portably by making that change to the code. Is there anything that will break if you do? 05:08:42 you can't "just" add / blindly 05:08:49 or consider, MacOS 9 or Windows. 05:09:10 I suppose I could have some code with #+asdf-unix to add a / on physical pathnames. 05:09:23 Fare: What are you arguing for now? The cl-fad implemenation (with my fix) will do the right thing on every platform that I can think of 05:09:34 loke: "that change" --- I accept patches 05:09:43 loke: what is your fix? 05:09:46 without any manual / added. You are the one who are claiming that one "should" use manual adding of slash instead 05:10:19 loke: show me your fix; if it's reasonable, I'm fixing uiop right now. 05:10:28 to replace the call to file-namestring to pathname-name 05:10:38 what about the extension? 05:10:46 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 05:10:54 and won't it break on other implementations? 05:11:03 GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 05:11:12 oh fuck 05:11:18 gaaaah 05:11:23 exactly 05:11:34 welcome to CL pathnames. 05:12:30 o.O apparently when I thought I would escape all the ickiness of bash handling of spaces in filenames by writing the script in CL, I was just trading one sort of ickiness for another :D 05:13:18 loke, Fare, H4ns: Thanks for the explanation and suggestions 05:13:24 tigranes: sorry about that. 05:14:07 if you choose, say, SBCL, and know you're not going to use wildcards, then you best bet is to use parse-native-namestring and concatenate a final / 05:14:08 Fare: what do you think of a new library, for the sake of argument, let's call is trivial-pathnames, which would handle this crap? 05:14:08 tigranes: you can make portably named symlinks to /tmp to your unportably named files from the shell script before you call into cl :) 05:14:17 "trivial-pathnames" haha 05:14:33 loke: it's called uiop 05:14:39 and I'm accepting patches. 05:14:48 see uiop/pathnames.lisp 05:15:02 you mean pathname.lisp? 05:15:05 yes 05:15:05 Fare: where is the documentation? 05:15:07 (or do I have an old version?) 05:15:09 in docstrings 05:15:16 uiop/pathname.lisp 05:15:59 So to do this right, one needs to do different things on different operating systems. 05:16:09 and different implementatoins 05:16:16 Fare: would you accept a patch that dos oerating system discrimination? 05:16:35 and be careful on those that have URL pathnames (at least ABCL and SCL) 05:16:41 loke: yes 05:16:44 OK 05:16:53 note that there is #+asdf-unix 05:17:05 and you must properly avoid doing crap with logical-pathnames 05:17:08 I get the desire to "fix" this somehow every time I stumble over messy details of the pathnames stuff 05:17:18 Sure 05:17:22 loke: welcome to the club 05:17:53 The purpose of the club is to leave 05:17:54 :-) 05:18:20 yup 05:18:33 Are there any operating systems in current use that support versions by the way? I remember SCO had versions back in the 90's. That's the last I heard. 05:18:37 and that's why I want this functionality in uiop -- so it's available everywhere all the time 05:19:02 openvms is in current use. 05:19:15 there is no cl that runs on it, though. 05:19:18 some implementations do versions by mapping to ~1~ suffixes or some such. Ouch. 05:19:29 Are there any CL's for OpenVMS then? 05:20:02 not that know of 05:20:27 H4ns: Yeah, my question was basically rooted in whether or not one can completely disregard from versioning. I mean there are things like the filsystem used by Clearcase, which obviously have versions, but I don't htink anyone expects that to work with CL 05:20:33 and I've added support of pretty exotic CLs to ASDF. 05:20:53 RMCL, Genera, GCL... ouch. 05:21:00 rmcl? 05:21:46 died when they discontinued the powerpc emulator in OS X. 05:21:59 And is SCL alive? 05:22:05 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:22:15 Scieneer? The author seems to still be maintaining it 05:22:22 though I haven't seen a release in years. 05:22:46 Hmm... According to google rmcl has a universal binary. At least it foud this: http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Developer-Tools/RMCL.shtml 05:22:56 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 05:22:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 05:22:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:23:24 loke: won't run on OS X 10.6 and later. 05:23:38 but this page doesn't seem to have a link to the official webpage of the product. Bizarre 05:23:43 sorry, 10.7 and later. 05:26:02 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:27:25 lisper [~lisper@192.107.46.241] has joined #lisp 05:27:34 Hey! 05:28:41 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.241.166] has left #lisp 05:29:46 -!- lisper [~lisper@192.107.46.241] has quit [Client Quit] 05:33:25 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:46 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 05:34:25 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:37:00 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 05:37:20 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has joined #lisp 05:37:25 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:42 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 05:39:53 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@233.154-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:40:52 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:58 -!- meiji11 [~user@d75-158-41-148.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-124.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:42:47 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:43:07 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 05:43:11 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0433.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:31 gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:01 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:35 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:50:43 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-szigfftknjxgpafd] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:54:01 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:58:44 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e3f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:47 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-031-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:15 -!- Vicfred [~anon@189.232.59.205] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:03:27 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 06:05:02 Fare: Thanks for the suggestion, I think iolib.os is exactly what I needed. I can stop relying on /bin/mkdir and /bin/ln and what not too. 06:05:10 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:45 Fare: Thanks for the suggestion, I think iolib.os is exactly what I needed. I can stop relying on /bin/mkdir and /bin/ln and what not too. 06:07:51 ccl is the upgrade of rmcl for 10.6+ 06:08:47 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Good night, everybody!] 06:12:23 pjb`, does CLISP have cltl2 environment stuff? 06:19:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 06:20:59 parenjitsu [~user@adsl-98-65-179-15.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:30 agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:23 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.139] has joined #lisp 06:25:06 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:06 -!- rahul is now known as ragnul 06:30:12 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-184-43.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:33:09 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:34:48 -!- parenjitsu [~user@adsl-98-65-179-15.dab.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 06:35:41 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:36:06 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 06:43:46 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 06:47:08 sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.241.166] has joined #lisp 06:48:27 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 06:48:56 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:50:31 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:54:54 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-031-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:56:15 _d3f [~gnu@93.114.45.248] has joined #lisp 06:56:33 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 06:58:10 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:22 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host167.190-224-63.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:05:39 oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.112.245] has joined #lisp 07:07:17 iandalton [~iandalton@host-184-167-148-39.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:11:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:16:24 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 07:19:33 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:27:01 nan_` [~user@46.197.112.181] has joined #lisp 07:29:36 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:29:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:29:37 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:31:12 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:31:51 anthracite [~anonymous@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite] has joined #lisp 07:32:16 bulters [~bulters@546BD472.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 07:35:13 -!- iandalton [~iandalton@host-184-167-148-39.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:36:38 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42:25 -!- Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:44:26 ck`` [~ck@dslb-088-069-115-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:40 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 07:53:23 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:58:41 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:41 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:58:42 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 07:58:43 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:00:33 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:17 kennyd [kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:01:19 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 08:05:00 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:06:45 -!- kennyd [kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:06:53 -!- agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:08:26 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:08:26 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:08:26 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:10:17 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-207-205.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:35 Quadrescence: apparently no, clisp dosn't have cltl2 environment stuff. But the format of closure is semi-documented, so one could get access to environments of compiled closures IIRC. Check (apropos "CLOSURE-" "SYSTEM") 08:11:59 A shame. I guess CLISP doesn't get a port of policy-cond 08:12:11 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:12:21 -!- ogamita` is now known as ogamita 08:12:40 H4ns: do you have a brother "Paul"? 08:14:03 flip214: I have a father: "Dirac"! :) 08:14:04 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-207-205.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:12 Well, we're discussing free software. If having environment was really important to somebody(ies), then they could easily add them to all the free implementations. 08:14:20 flip214: no 08:14:23 ogamita, easily? 08:14:33 bitonic [~user@151.225.36.236] has joined #lisp 08:14:36 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:16:46 -!- Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: irc2go] 08:16:59 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-207-205.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:04 Ramirez57 [~Ramirez57@c-174-54-148-204.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:37 ogamita: sure, but what "kind" of environment(s) ? 08:18:20 pnpuff, cltl2 envs? 08:18:52 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-207-205.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:58 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-207-205.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:34 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-207-205.mobileonline.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:30 nilsi [~nilsi@host-95-199-207-205.mobileonline.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:22 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:29:47 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ekjpovmxldrrnenz] has joined #lisp 08:30:42 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:02 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:31:09 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:46 pnpuff: allegro has an API for them, similar to cltl2. 08:32:02 Yuuhi` [benni@p5DC63E6D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:32:17 Quadrescence: easily, as in: you have the sources! :-) 08:32:42 yes having the source makes programming tasks easy 08:34:08 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5DC63F5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:43:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:44:00 pnpuff_ [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:44:25 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has 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seconds] 10:49:56 & 10:52:23 -!- Guest67974 [~knob@66-50-126-195.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:29 oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.112.245] has joined #lisp 10:52:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-184-43.lns17.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:57:14 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-120-170.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:59:00 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.36.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:01:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:02:45 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:06:41 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:08:20 davazp [~user@178.167.197.140.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 11:10:44 davazp: cool repl 11:11:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:11:15 davazp: i'm not sure why, but i was really charmed by my first test, (make-package "BOB"), working 11:11:37 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.106.168] has joined #lisp 11:11:52 I think that made it feel less trivial. So when later trivial things broke, it made me want to fix it, not dismiss it... 11:11:52 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:55 Xach: you'll like this... https://github.com/davazp/ecmalisp/pull/16 11:12:16 dang! 11:12:19 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:12:48 abeaumont: nice, but that is the textbook case for shiftf 11:13:16 (defvar * nil)? 11:13:20 is the package not CL? 11:13:34 Xach: thanks, I have been adding things useful to bootstrap itself, more than the repl 11:14:06 there are a little bit of everything, but nothing complete 11:14:24 Xach: heh, indeed, will have to fix that 11:15:50 davazp: I just skimmed it, but noticed a bug: https://github.com/davazp/ecmalisp/blob/master/ecmalisp.lisp#L663 11:16:20 Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:21 oh, you're right. thanks 11:17:40 oh, so, it's a full re-implementation of cl, i see 11:18:33 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 11:18:56 bind_ [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 11:19:48 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:49 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:19:57 who's behind ecmalisp, and will it be a full CL? 11:21:02 smull [~smull@port-212-202-120-50.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:47 loke: rgrau started it, and I continued to bootstrap it.. a full CL? I don't think so 11:22:03 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:31 slava_ [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:46 as long as it's fun, I will include new things.. if other people would like to go on, that's great 11:22:52 mtd_ [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:04 DrPete_ [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 11:23:18 j0ni_ [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:55 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:24:43 It's pretty cool 11:24:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.4.246] has joined #lisp 11:24:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.4.246] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:24:45 No LOOP though 11:24:45 Borbus_ [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 11:24:50 and defclass is missing :-) 11:25:06 Aethaery1 [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 11:25:10 davazp: the demo running in the browser is cool! 11:25:39 you can find a very simple loop-like implementation in Norvig's PAIP.. http://norvig.com/paip/loop.lisp 11:26:40 I think the standard LOOP found in SBCL and ABCL shuld be easy to include? 11:27:11 I tried a loop implementation from mit, but it was too complex yet, 11:27:34 davazp: why was it failing? 11:28:09 hmm, there is no DEFPACKAGE? 11:28:38 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:41 for example, there are many things we need 11:28:42 lambda 11:28:47 I was looking at setf expanders because there wasn't one for aref.. so for a silly 5 mins to experiment with ecmalisp wrote one using cl::aset 11:28:52 lambda expressions are not complete 11:29:16 destructuring-bind.. I don't know, many things 11:29:17 -!- zfx- [~zfx@195.99.195.90] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- mtd [~martin@82.68.80.108] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:17 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- smull_ [~smull@port-212-202-120-50.static.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- oGMo [~rpav@ec2-54-235-67-4.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:29:18 -!- bind_ is now known as bind 11:29:33 oGMo [~rpav@ec2-54-235-67-4.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 11:30:14 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:10 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 11:32:03 Flame_Alchemist [~Flame_Alc@host77-99-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:32:57 OK, time to go 11:33:00 bye all 11:33:01 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:34:31 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 11:34:59 -!- gmcastil [~user@207-224-44-98.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:36:18 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:40:21 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:44:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:46:24 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:25 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.210] has joined #lisp 11:50:12 Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:51:04 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has joined #lisp 11:53:54 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:13 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:55:08 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:08 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-215.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:58:25 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:59:01 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:59:17 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:38 KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.249.94] has joined #lisp 11:59:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 12:00:00 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:00:33 -!- bulters [~bulters@546BD472.cm-12-4d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:02:24 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 12:03:57 subset of CL are cool. You can easily cl:defpackage the operators that are implemented, and develop with a CL implementation for them. 12:16:44 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 12:17:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 12:20:59 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has joined #lisp 12:21:47 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:22:21 kobain [~kobian@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 12:23:01 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:23:34 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:23:53 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:09 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-200-80.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:24:20 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:39 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 12:25:01 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:32 -!- mobile271 [~androirc@089144192077.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:28:18 temerson [~temerson@pdc-cdn-npool.ebscohost.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:42 leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has joined #lisp 12:29:38 Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:29:45 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 12:33:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:34:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:35:17 ogamita: i like how you use the words "you", "can" and "easy" frequently :) 12:36:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:37:53 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:04 protist [~protist@145.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 12:40:02 I have a data structure (list of structs) I want to serialize to disk, I can just prin1 it to a file, and then later I can read the file, right? 12:40:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:06 any trap? 12:41:15 -!- Aethaery1 is now known as aeth 12:41:19 tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has joined #lisp 12:41:23 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:09 Well, not all objects are meaningfully printable. 12:42:24 Also be careful of cyclic structure, and uninterned symbols and ... 12:43:21 here it's really just a list of defstruct 12:43:28 really narrow need as of now 12:43:34 also printer special variables (like *print-length*). maybe use with-standard-io-syntax 12:43:36 I'm looking at http://www.cliki.net/database too 12:43:48 with-standard-io-syntax sounds great, thanks 12:46:20 Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:29 maybe cl-store is a better option 12:47:17 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:27 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 12:47:50 -!- setmeaway2 is now known as setmeaway 12:49:08 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:49:16 -!- tvaalen_ [~r@terminal.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:49:44 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has joined #lisp 12:50:05 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 12:51:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 12:56:12 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:57:29 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-11.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:01:27 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:01:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:03:25 leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has joined #lisp 13:03:53 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 13:05:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-40.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:26 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:12:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-157.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:13:52 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:14:13 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:15:27 ok so local-time print syntax is not readable 13:17:14 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:17:37 it is. 13:17:59 (local-time:enable-read-macros) 13:18:14 mmm, having a look 13:19:33 is there a local-time:with-enable-read-macros? should I care? 13:19:45 apropos is your friend 13:19:52 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:20:02 dim: macros like that can't usually work. 13:20:09 unless you are doing read-from-string or something. 13:20:15 (which maybe you are) 13:20:33 doing (print data file) then (setq data (read file)) 13:20:35 Well, I take that back. It's decent for wrapping around loading something. 13:21:17 then I guess the with-standard-io-syntax is not compatible 13:21:26 dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 13:21:43 (with-standard-io-syntax (local-time:enable-read-macros) (setf *stats* (read file))) 13:21:48 that somehow feels wrong 13:21:55 is it? 13:22:35 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:22:54 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:24:47 if you don't want to enable the local-time reader globally, i think you need to use something like named-readtables, no? 13:25:09 -!- Flame_Alchemist is now known as Flame[afk] 13:26:34 ravster [~ravi@66.207.222.14] has joined #lisp 13:27:32 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.112.245] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:27:33 named-readtables ist tot 13:27:37 long live cl-syntax! 13:27:59 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:52 well I'm just wondering about it, I don't see any harm done by enabling the syntax globally really 13:29:05 I just want to be dead certain it's enabled when I read the file 13:29:38 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:29:50 dim: just enable it at application startup 13:30:15 yeah 13:30:32 maybe in the package.lisp file even 13:30:35 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 13:30:50 Xach: what do you mean it's dead ? 13:35:13 It is incomplete and unmaintained 13:35:48 I don't think it's good to recommend unless it's resurrected 13:36:02 -!- dbh [~dbh@182.55.3.19] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:36:08 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 13:36:17 dim: sorry for the bad recommendation, look at cl-syntax :) 13:37:05 well, I will, sometime later 13:37:13 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-171-26.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:38:18 because read-tables has implementation dependencies that could easily rot? 13:39:06 the funny thing is that cl-syntax depends on named-readtables 13:39:25 or because you only on principle accept cl pkgs that are actively maintained? 13:39:42 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-009-009.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:57 dim: you could bind *readtable* within the call to with-standard-io-syntax and still get the benefit of it's printer control bindings 13:40:34 well I could relax and enable the syntax globally too 13:40:46 + ensure it's on within the with-standard-io-syntax macro 13:40:53 and that's just what I've done here 13:41:36 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-171-26.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:10 RenJuan: I think it needs more features to be the most useful it can be 13:43:10 I like the concept in general and I really want something successful to be available for the task, I think it would be fantastic if named-readtables became like e.g. CFFI or closer-mop 13:43:20 At the moment it's more like clocc port maybe? 13:43:28 what is it missing ? 13:43:40 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:43:44 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:44:16 ah, i c, just wondering because there are a lot of useful but unmaintained cl pkgs. OTOH I like knowing automatically that ql pkgs are maintained. 13:44:20 One feature I need is the ability to capture the side-effects of "legacy" library functions like (foo:enable-my-syntax) into a named readtable. 13:44:39 It's trivial, and I wrote support for it, but since it's unmaintained, it is not part of named-readtables. 13:44:41 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-171-26.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:45 I haven't revisited it in a while. 13:52:06 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 13:53:13 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:53:42 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:15 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-200-80.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:57:48 what problem all these readtable -related libraries solve at all? 13:58:54 antonv: avoids clashes between conflicting readtable customizations 13:59:03 scopes the changes to a file rather than globally 13:59:11 IMHO the primitive to use for custome syntax is a function with accepts readtable as an argument and modifies it 13:59:15 this composes well 13:59:46 suppose there are two functions (defun enable-syntax-foo (rtable) ...) (defun enable-syntax-bar (rtable ...)) 14:00:24 if you want to compose these two syntaxes, then do (defun enably-syntax-i-need (rtable) (enable-syntax-foo rtable) (enable-syntax-bar rtable)) 14:00:48 or in different order, bar before foo: (defun enably-syntax-i-need (rtable) (enable-syntax-foo rtable) (enable-syntax-bar rtable)) 14:01:14 then, if you want change syntax globally, (denable-syntax-i-need *readtable*) 14:01:59 if you want to chagne syntax locally, then (let ((*readtable*) (enable-syntax-i-need (copy-readtable *readtable*))) ...) 14:03:22 I don't think you've thought the latter through fully. 14:03:53 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:02 well, the functions to modify readtables, like enable-syntax-i-need, enable-syntax-foo should return the readtable they modify 14:05:08 or you mean something else? 14:05:11 (cl-syntax:defsyntax local-time-syntax (:macro-character #\@ 'local-time::%read-timestring) (:dispatch-macro-character #\# #\@ #'local-time::read-universal-time)) gives me Bogus DEFREADTABLE clauses: (DISPATCH-MACRO-CHARACTER # @ #'READ-UNIVERSAL-TIME) (MACRO-CHARACTER @ '%READ-TIMESTRING) 14:05:16 any idea? I'm lost again 14:07:08 -!- ravster [~ravi@66.207.222.14] has left #lisp 14:07:19 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@18.Red-83-36-195.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:10:50 macro-char instead of macro-character it seems 14:10:52 what a mess. 14:13:33 abeaumont [~abeaumont@18.Red-83-36-195.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:55 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:56 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:00 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 -!- _d3f [~gnu@93.114.45.248] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:49 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:24:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:28:04 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-112-248.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 14:31:44 Xach: named-readtables is dead? when did that happen? 14:31:47 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:10 It hasn't been maintained in years now. 14:32:35 it works for me. what is this cl-syntax? 14:32:50 *slyrus* appears to be years behind 14:33:40 You could consider it "stable" rather than "dead" if it does what you need. 14:33:41 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:56 It doesn't quite do what I need, and it won't start doing it any time soon as far as I can tell. 14:34:37 _d3f [~gnu@93.114.45.248] has joined #lisp 14:36:15 Is it ok to use conditions to exit from infinite loop or I should make something like return codes in functions I call inside my loop? 14:36:21 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:36:52 hitecnologys: consider throw/catch too 14:37:03 or tagbody/go 14:37:08 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:37:16 Xach: I've thought about them too, yeah. 14:37:52 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-215.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:38:35 I'm just writing a simple game and I don't want to place specific return value in every key hook. 14:39:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:24 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:08 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has quit [Quit: Harag] 14:40:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:40:18 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has joined #lisp 14:41:58 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:36 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:45:16 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 14:46:18 You could just do something like have a sentinel value and loop until it equals something 14:46:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:48 ahungry: I've already ruled out this option because it's too ugly 14:49:43 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:30 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 14:51:45 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:38 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:20 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:54:47 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has quit [Quit: Harag] 14:55:03 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-171-26.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:55:25 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-167-124.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:25 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has joined #lisp 14:57:32 Xach: but cl-syntax does? 14:58:16 as fe[nl]ix pointed out, the fact that cl-syntax uses named-readtables makes it seem odd to deprecate named-readtables in favor of cl-syntax does... 14:58:31 iandalton [~iandalton@host-184-167-148-39.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:26 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:24 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:00:32 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:21 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:07 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:14 cl-syntax has the actually-maintained advantage to me. 15:02:36 Or perhaps theoretically maintained. I haven't sent patches for it that got accepted or anything. 15:04:42 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:04:52 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:56 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:09 Actually, now I look into it... 15:08:46 Last year tcr emailed the cl-syntax maintainer and said "If you'd like to take it over, feel free". I don't see a response though. 15:08:57 tcr doesn't have time or interest to keep it going. 15:09:09 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:10:53 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:00 doomlord_ [~servitor@host31-52-58-47.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:12 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.249.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:22 does cl-syntax handle the pprint table? 15:11:26 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 15:11:54 -!- iandalton [~iandalton@host-184-167-148-39.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:12:13 -!- tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:12:16 -!- doomlord_ 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15:53:31 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:41 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:57:03 agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:54 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:05 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:58:06 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:58:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:32 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:01:17 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ekjpovmxldrrnenz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:40 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.143.128] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:02:12 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:17 hi 16:02:40 -!- Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:03:35 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:03:37 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:48 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:04:02 hello denommus, how are you today? 16:04:29 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.210] has joined #lisp 16:05:08 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:05:12 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:05:20 oh, it's better not to ask, I'm not really that well, and I think I shouldn't talk about it here :-/ 16:07:07 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:08:23 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:47 oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.121.163] has joined #lisp 16:11:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.121.163] has quit [Client Quit] 16:14:49 which book about CLOS and MOP do you recommend me? 16:14:56 I don't know a thing about MOP 16:15:05 minion: keene 16:15:05 keene: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/keene 16:15:06 minion: keene 16:15:08 :( 16:15:12 minion: amop 16:15:12 amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.alu.org/mop/ 16:15:41 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:57 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 16:16:01 The Art of the Metaobject Protocol seems really interesting, but I heard it focus much more in the implementation of MOP, instead of its usage. I'm more interested on the latter 16:16:10 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:16:33 Keene's book seems nearer of what I want 16:16:51 Keene's book covers CLOS, and quite well, but not MOP. 16:17:16 On the other hand, most of the time touching the MOP is delving far, far too deeply into the bag of tricks. 16:17:25 http://www.ravenbrook.com/doc/2003/07/15/clos-fundamentals/ nice article about CLOS and MOP. 16:17:30 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:17:54 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:58 Denommus: you can check the source of postmodern for an example of defining a metaclass 16:18:07 I don't know even what MOP should do. CLOS by itself seems amazing to me 16:18:11 nyef: ISTR Keene has a section on hash-backed classes 16:18:26 *hitecnologys* agrees with pavelpenev 16:18:32 MOP changes the way CLOS is implemented 16:18:38 Okay, fair enough. I should probably re-read Keene at some point. 16:18:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-220.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:18:53 Denommus: https://github.com/marijnh/Postmodern/blob/master/postmodern/table.lisp 16:20:13 thanks for your opinions 16:20:25 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has joined #lisp 16:20:27 I think I should read all these books in some moment, anyway 16:20:55 I need to go, goobye everyone 16:21:04 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.106.168] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:21:17 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.210] has joined #lisp 16:21:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:22:28 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:53 ok, now I have an idea of what MOP does. It's... wow, I have no words 16:24:32 I probably won't use it for the next one hundred projects, but it's certainly something 16:24:42 Hi! I'm trying to use iolib.os:walk-directory, but am getting sb-int:simple-program-error "invalid number of arguments: 4", which shows no useful backtrace because apparently it's coming from a foreign function #x41961F. How do I debug this? :\ 16:25:20 I'm calling it thusly: (iolib.os:walk-directory "/tmp/test/" #'(lambda (file) (princ file))) 16:25:47 tigranes: Out of curiosity, what platform are you on? OSX? Linux? PPC? x86-64? 16:25:55 nyef: SBCL 1.1.4 on Linux 16:26:01 x86-64 16:26:23 (lambda (file kind parent depth) (princ file)) 16:26:37 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-73-84.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:57 tigranes: are you using iolib HEAD ? 16:27:08 stassats: Ah, silly me. Thanks! 16:27:20 fe[nl]ix: Probably not; the one in the latest Quicklisp 16:27:35 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:10 i hope to implement that C-x 8 RET thing on emacs onto my climacs man.... 16:28:35 tigranes: blame fe[nl]ix for not documenting it properly 16:28:43 tigranes: did you install SBCL from arch linux? 16:29:02 pkhuong: Yes 16:29:10 stassats: :) 16:29:14 i already have ucs-insert..... 16:29:31 but works on single chars only, or i think so.... 16:29:31 cyff [~cyff@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:52 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-110.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:03 Their build is broken. You won't have such issues if you install from sbcl.org. Otherwise, I'm told there's a version in AUR that works. 16:31:23 pkhuong: Huh, all right. Apparently it's also two sub-sub-versions behind. Will try the AUR one. 16:31:29 the mapping function takes 4 arguments not one 16:31:32 I'm about to teach minion about this. Maybe semi-automated shaming will work better. 16:31:37 rgrau [~user@80.Red-83-39-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:46 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-89.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:32:10 haridas [~haridas@112.79.43.115] has joined #lisp 16:32:16 -!- haridas [~haridas@112.79.43.115] has left #lisp 16:32:30 filename, type, parent and depth 16:33:09 tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has joined #lisp 16:33:27 fe[nl]ix: Got it. Thanks. 16:34:31 sellout-1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:37 the parent being a relative path from the initial directory 16:34:52 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-113-13.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:54 fe[nl]ix: why doesn't the dosctring say so? 16:35:28 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:49 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-1c1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:37:21 I must have forgotten to document it 16:37:57 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:40:11 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-167-124.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:41:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:46 (rember) :) 16:42:55 rgrau` [~user@80.Red-83-39-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:04 -!- rgrau [~user@80.Red-83-39-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:44 -!- tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:17 tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has joined #lisp 16:47:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has quit [Quit: reboot emacs] 16:48:06 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:55:41 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50b96.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:56:31 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50b96.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:00:21 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5DC63E6D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:01:07 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-146.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:40 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 17:02:39 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has quit [Quit: Harag] 17:02:56 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.226.67.188] has joined #lisp 17:03:20 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-110.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:04:18 Joreji [~thomas@69-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:07:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:10:35 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 17:10:52 Joreji [~thomas@65-224.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:25 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.98.210] has left #lisp 17:12:21 deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:49 leo2007 [~leo@110.172.225.137] has joined #lisp 17:15:21 AeroNotix [~xeno@abob44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:16:56 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 17:18:11 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:41 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: EvW] 17:23:55 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-113-13.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:26:00 -!- nan_` [~user@46.197.112.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:58 Regis__ [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has joined #lisp 17:29:33 -!- pw_ [uid2072@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ycwyagztdwvnhhrg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:29:52 This may be a silly question, but if I'm using iolib.os and/or iolib.pathnames, I can no longer use any CL functions that deal with pathnames, right? Like ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST. 17:30:01 -!- GOMADWarrior [~Regis@189.34.44.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31:19 -!- protist [~protist@145.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:31:44 I wouldn't have thought there would be a problem, though I suppose that there might be. fe[nl]ix, care to weigh in? 17:33:34 nyef: It seems like iolib uses it's own pathspec format that prints as #/p/"/directory/file" and CL functions don't understand it 17:34:59 -!- rgrau` [~user@80.Red-83-39-216.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:20 tigranes: that's correct 17:35:22 Okay, the filename objects being incompatible I can believe, but that shouldn't necessarily render the CL functions outright useless. 17:37:15 tigranes: 1) I advise you to use iolib HEAD and 2) if there's anything missing I canadd it to iolib 17:37:49 of course, you can convert the iolib file-path to a string and pass that to the CL functions but you'd still have problems with some special characters 17:39:04 fe[nl]ix: And special characters is exactly why I'm using iolib in the first place :) Are there any functions to create directories? 17:40:30 unfortunately, no 17:41:05 tigranes: which special characters are causing you trouble? 17:41:09 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.247.99] has joined #lisp 17:41:44 imu96 [~imran@91.140.179.28] has joined #lisp 17:41:58 temerson: square brackets (in SBCL) 17:43:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:43:51 tigranes: you just download and install libfixposix and iolib HEAD and I'll add the function you need later today 17:44:20 fe[nl]ix: Doing that right now :) Thanks! 17:44:28 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:20 in sbcl can't you "just" (sb-posix:mkdir "[]" #o777)? 17:46:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:08 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:47:15 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:47:29 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:24 agumonke1 [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 17:49:01 Krystof: I can indeed, you're right. 17:49:56 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 17:50:27 -!- agumonkey [~agu@97.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:54:08 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:13 if (room) in sbcl says that a lot of memory is in simple-array-unsigned-byte-64, how can I find out by which path they're reachable? 17:57:29 I think I know which special they're on, but it's a heavy tree of classes ... 17:57:36 *class instances 17:57:45 special characters don't cause troubles if you don't conflate namestring with cffi-sys:native-namestring 17:58:23 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:58:25 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:58:51 I know the special *variable* which should be the root of all troubles (pun intended), but not the path. 18:00:50 object walker? :) 18:01:21 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vwghqrqxtznxbvaa] has joined #lisp 18:03:00 or sb-ext:parse-native-namestring 18:03:15 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.179.28] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:44 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:05:01 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:07:52 Strange how sb-ext:parse-native-namestring includes both optional arguments and keywords 18:08:06 also (ensure-directories-exist (make-pathname :name "[]")) works 18:08:25 are the last few lines meant for me? Sorry if I caused confusion, by "path" I meant the hierarchy of class instances that are linked via slot values 18:08:37 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@netblock-68-183-229-245.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 18:08:47 tigranes: it's because it matches the interface of cl:parse-namestring 18:09:15 flip214: you need to traverse objects.. in general that can be highly unportable (think (lambda () my-big-object-here)) 18:09:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-224.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:10:08 Krystof: Ah, I see. 18:10:11 ISTR that there was some function in some sbcl package for that. 18:10:32 Krystof: Thanks for the tips, I'll fiddle with that some :) 18:10:54 flip214: there is, but it's dangerous and rarely helpful 18:11:06 sb-vm::map-allocated-objects? 18:12:52 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e3f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:04 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 18:16:10 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:17:29 rgc [~user@200.Red-83-39-147.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:04 well, what's simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 anyway? a simple array of u64 values, ie. an array of fixnums? 18:18:15 don't believe I'm allocating that on purpose... 18:18:24 no 18:18:37 it's exactly what it says 18:21:42 No, unsigned fixnums would be unsigned-byte-62. 18:22:25 (Well, the actual type would probably mention "fx" somewhere rather than 62, but still...) 18:22:29 nyef: i would expect simple-array-fixnum 18:22:38 Or that, yeah. 18:22:54 62 doesn't imply tagging 18:22:54 Ah, right, signed fixnums. 18:23:19 signed-byte-63, my mistake. (-: 18:24:10 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-088-069-115-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:52 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.142] has joined #lisp 18:26:12 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:57 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:09 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-1c1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 18:28:24 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-215.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:28:38 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-120-170.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:54 ok, I can use sb-vm::map-allocated-objects to find instances of a class. 18:29:28 and to crash sbcl 18:29:31 but trying to use (typep) with sb-vm::simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 gives an error "undefined type" 18:29:58 Right, that's a VM type. 18:30:03 stassats: I wouldn't mind as long as it reports some results before the crash. I'm only debugging right now. 18:30:24 so, how would I find out whether some given thing is of that type 18:30:25 ? 18:30:29 (simple-array (unsigned-byte 64) (*)), naturally 18:30:51 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 18:31:23 that's what I (tried to) ask before ... "a simple array of u64", and got a "no". 18:31:27 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:28 Either know how to work out what the corresponding lisp type is, or check for other-pointeryness and then pick off the type codes in the header. 18:31:38 flip214: you said an array of fixnums. 18:31:53 Yeah, fixnums aren't 64 bits wide. 18:31:53 flip214: no, you said "ie. an array of fixnums", which is wrong 18:32:26 (And, might I say that making them not 61 bits wide was a bit of a pain?) 18:32:34 yes, that was a guess. if we wouldn't play the "hot answer"/"cold answer" game here it wouldn't be so funny, right? 18:32:53 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:01 well, the type is very descriptive, i had no idea you're not familiar with specialized arrays 18:34:16 I believed to know specialized arrays, I just didn't know that some of them have simple symbols as names (as opposed to the (simple-array ...) list) 18:34:43 That gets down to implementation-specifics, since you're grovelling the heap anyway. 18:35:25 not ok to ask scheme questions here? 18:35:28 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 18:35:33 yeah, but how should someone _not_ trained on the specific implementation know that? 18:35:44 cyff: If you want #scheme, you know where to find it. 18:40:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:51 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:35 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:45:11 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.27.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:16 -!- ASau` [~user@p5797F473.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: update.] 18:47:54 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.220.171] has joined #lisp 18:50:38 hrmpf, " 333,463,536 bytes for 6,119 simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 objects. 18:50:47 -!- minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:50:49 minion [~minion@50.7.166.114] has joined #lisp 18:51:14 after "(sb-ext:gc :full t)" they're gone ... but that doesn't help during runtime 18:52:53 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:53:58 rking1 [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 18:54:10 Are you actually having heap exhaustion issues? 18:54:33 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:38 samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:45 -!- rking1 is now known as rking 18:55:47 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 18:55:56 yes, if I want to run more than one thread at the same time, or parse more than one file. 18:56:24 Hrm. Fair enough. 18:56:33 Is it that you're retaining references too long, then? 18:56:37 it fits all in RAM if I do it sequentially and slowly, with manual waits 18:57:02 but doesn't if I just let it run undisturbed 18:57:12 That seems odd. 18:57:23 I'm using 2GB of heap, and the end result is ~800 MB (according to room) 18:57:43 room can't always be trusted. 18:59:25 the on-disk serialized data is ~260MB, so the magnitude should be ok. 19:00:00 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:18 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:17 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:02:47 -!- [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 19:03:11 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:06:43 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:09 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:28 bitonic [~user@dyn1228-140.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:14:18 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-142-171.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 19:14:31 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-142-171.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 19:14:31 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 19:14:52 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jideeyjizriewlge] has joined #lisp 19:14:59 *stassats* notices an overabundance of u64 vectors of length 17 and 32 19:15:05 which increases due to compilation 19:17:28 17 looks like the minimum size of hashtables 19:18:02 hello. is somebody familiar with yaclml? I'm trying to find out how I can add an attribute to a tag. It does not recognize :placeholder as an argument for :input 19:18:03 of the next-vector vector 19:18:24 and hash-vector 19:20:36 Now I put some (ROOM) calls in the code to find out where the simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 allocations happen - and they're gone! 19:20:48 -!- milkpost [~dec@192.133.84.6] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:20:50 schoppenhauer: you need to edit the yaclml source afaik 19:21:02 adeht: meh. ok. 19:21:10 schoppenhauer: what adeht says... 19:21:10 -!- Flame_Alchemist [~Flame_Alc@host77-99-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:28 and 32 is the size after rehashing 19:21:29 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:21:39 flip214: so, the source is hashtables 19:21:51 M-. on that tag itself, and redefine it in your own tags.lisp file .. that is what I did. 19:21:51 flip214: Ah, a heisenbug. Also what you probably earned for using as crashingly unsubtle a tool as ROOM. 19:23:09 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:23:40 nyef: but it seems reproduceable. I've commented the ROOM calls, and SBCL went to die. 19:24:16 so it's not that much of heisenberg, more or less a piece of schrödinger ;) 19:24:19 *|3b|* blames bits of stack frames from called functions (not that i've ever bothered trying to proved that guess) 19:24:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:25:10 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:11 You introduce something to measure an additional variable, and your entire set of observations change? That sounds like heisenberg to me. 19:25:51 Joreji [~thomas@83-116.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:54 though, it's unclear why the size of vectors is incremented by one on hashtable creation, but isn't on rehashing 19:26:24 stassats: Could be that there's a bug in the rehash logic? 19:26:24 that's why it's 17 and 32, not 16 and 32 or 17 and 33 19:26:54 nyef: nobody seems to have complained 19:27:23 there are some kludgyness comments for size+1 19:27:54 flip214: do you use hashtables? 19:28:01 or, does something you use them? 19:28:14 stassats: yes 19:28:23 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:28:24 the compiler uses them internally, so repeatedly calling (room) will cause simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 to increase 19:28:57 but IIRC correctly most of _my_ hashtables is kept in the result, and the biggest one is ~400 elements, so this shouldn't cause 300MB RAM usage. 19:28:58 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-73-84.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:29:45 *With* ROOM calls in the code it works much better. 19:29:53 do you provide :size argument? 19:30:07 no. 19:30:29 flip: If you replace the calls to ROOM with calls to GC, does it still work much better? 19:31:06 nyef: I had (and still have) (SB-EXT:GC :full T) calls in there, the ROOM are additionally. 19:31:15 Hunh. Neat. 19:31:34 But I just noticed that this time, despite the ROOM calls, I have again "326,600,576 bytes for 11,922 simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 objects." 19:31:37 looks like hashtables are reported under instance objects. 19:31:48 which go away with an additional GC from the REPL.... 19:32:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.235.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:32:01 I'm currently looking at a test case in the SBCL test suite that calls ROOM a hundred times in quick succession. 19:32:27 I wonder what bug it may reveal. 19:32:36 Problem with threads? 19:32:57 <|3b|> was that the one where ROOM was consing a bunch of bignums due to address space beyond fixnum range? 19:33:03 On some (many?) platforms, it blows the heap. 19:33:13 I don't think so. I'm mostly single-threaded now, and wait for the threads to finish. 19:33:24 it's pretty weird alright 19:33:49 |3b|: I'm on 64bit, so the fixnum range should be big enough ... I don't have 16EB of memory, sadly. 19:34:08 flip214: virtual memory can be all over the place 19:35:08 stassats: but 64bits are enough to address the pages, no matter where they hide. 19:35:13 stassats: not on x86-64. 19:35:32 and on linux there's actually a 48 bit limit or something like that. 19:35:45 <|3b|> flip214: meant the test calling room repeatedly, shouldn't be a problem on 64bit 19:35:46 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:35:54 the concept of 63 bit fixnums represented with 64 bits is really hard to understand, it seems. 19:36:49 pkhuong: Just imagine how much harder it was to understand back in the 61 bit fixnum days. (-: 19:37:29 well, my per-process memory maps show that userspace only gets 47 bits of address space. 19:39:58 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:24 it seems like it'd be better if ROOM reported something more appropriate for built-in types instead of just "instance objects" 19:44:53 and didn't count underlying data structures on their own 19:46:19 If you want more sophisticated heap analysis, feel free to write some. 19:47:30 nyef: i find it easier just to talk about it 19:47:52 Of course. 19:48:12 Is it effective, though? 19:48:28 AndroUser2 [~androirc@089144192221.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:29 time will show! 19:48:58 and don't forget that you can only go up to 2^62 with fixnums since they are signed 19:50:44 -!- deveux [~deveux@74.Red-83-45-150.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:34 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-212-12.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:33 Perhaps it would be more significant to say you can up to 4611686018427387903 with fixnums since they're signed? 19:54:53 4 611686 018427 387903 4 (european) trillions! 19:57:08 *RenJuan* notes possible first sighting of an indication that 64 bit is now assumed. 19:58:23 mc40 [~mc40@host86-148-139-30.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:53 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:00:17 -!- mc40 [~mc40@host86-148-139-30.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:02:21 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abob44.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:02:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:31 Is it ok if "--dynamic-space-size 3172" gives 3909M memory usage in top? 20:02:53 (virtual, of course ... real use is ~1.2G now) 20:05:01 flip214: SBCL's memory management is black magic. 20:05:07 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:05:29 who is the witch cook ? 20:05:30 flip214: how many foreign libraries are you using? 20:05:37 lol 20:05:53 stassats: none that I'm aware of ... but who knows what some quickloads might pull in? 20:05:54 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@18.Red-83-36-195.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:06:49 libcrypto, libssl, libz, and the "normal" ones are loaded. 20:07:11 does anybody know whether yaclml has some sort of "compact mode"? 20:07:29 that is, does not bloat the generated html with spaces and stuff 20:07:40 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:07:42 tigranes [~tigranes@216.18.22.26] has joined #lisp 20:08:30 schoppenhauer: (setf yaclml:*yaclml-indent* nil) 20:08:36 Dynamic space usage is: 2,469,508,368 bytes. 20:08:38 660,322,112 bytes for 5,249 simple-array-unsigned-byte-64 objects. 20:08:50 then a (GC :full T) 20:08:50 schoppenhauer: (of course you need to recompile for that to take effect) 20:08:56 Dynamic space usage is: 1,364,891,024 bytes. 20:09:08 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:09:14 looks like the GC during runtime doesn't help that much. 20:09:22 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:09:24 adeht: ok thank you 20:10:04 abeaumont [~abeaumont@18.Red-83-36-195.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:05 yes, much better! 20:12:13 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:16:58 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:18:00 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:20:37 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:20:54 fmeyer 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Good shoot. 22:00:48 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-jideeyjizriewlge] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:00:51 s/hoo/ho/ 22:02:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-118.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:17 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:02:52 deveux [~deveux@74.red-83-45-150.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:47 bitonic [~user@151.225.10.199] has joined #lisp 22:06:24 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:29 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:15:01 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:02 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:02 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:02 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:02 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:02 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:02 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@76.178.163.213] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:02 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:03 -!- reeker05 [~reeker05@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:03 -!- CrazyEddy [~isonomous@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:03 -!- Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:15:23 elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 p_nathan [~vlion@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 reeker05 [~reeker05@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 CrazyEddy [~isonomous@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:15:23 Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:21 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 22:17:10 Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 22:17:15 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:18:45 -!- kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has quit [] 22:19:42 Hagbard_C [2ed0408e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.208.64.142] has joined #lisp 22:21:01 I'm trying to split a string on lines consisting of a single asterist with CL-PPCRE. (I know I can use lighter libraries for such a simple case but I'm also going to do other regex stuff.) But when I try (cl-ppcre:split "^\\s*\\*\\s*$" "foo\n*\nbar") (with actual linebreaks instead of \n), it doesn't split. Removing ^ and $ fixes it, but then it splits on any asterisk. How do I split this properly? 22:23:22 multiline mode, probably. 22:23:36 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:24:10 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:07 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:26:20 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:26:50 -!- Hagbard_C [2ed0408e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.208.64.142] has left #lisp 22:28:27 Ah, got it. 22:30:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:37:10 <|3b|> sykopomp: what is the status of conserv? 22:37:27 it's well preserved. 22:40:14 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:43:53 -!- nightfly__ [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:02 nightfly__ [~sage@sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:57 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:47:33 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:28 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 22:49:17 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:02 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:51 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has joined #lisp 22:52:06 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:53:55 |3b|: hasn't gone anywhere for a while, and what's currently there may need a bit of work. 22:54:16 but it's at the point where one could look for a project to use it with to hash out any issues. 22:54:24 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.247] has quit [Client Quit] 22:54:24 I don't recall any major API changes being needed? 22:54:29 it's been a while now :\ 22:54:31 <|3b|> guess i'll try it and see what happens 22:56:05 you can look at todo.org to get a sense of what's missing. I get the impression that it's in a pretty good place. 22:56:06 What's the best way to assign the substrings from a split to variables? (multiple-value-setq (a b c) (values-list (split re str :limit 4))) doesn't look natural, but I'm not sure how else I'd do it. 22:56:45 iandalton: destructuring-bind?... 22:57:12 <|3b|> sykopomp: don't see a todo.org in the repo 22:57:20 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:57:33 destructuring-bind doesn't let me throw away extra elements. Split returns 4 strings but I only want to assign the first three to variables. 22:57:38 hm. I'm sorry, I thought I'd committed it. 22:58:00 <|3b|> iandalton: you can throw away some with &rest 22:58:05 iandalton: (destructuring-bind (a b c ignore) (split ...) (declare (ignore ignore)) ...) 22:58:11 <|3b|> (and an ignored variable name) 22:58:17 iandalton: also can't you just :limit 3 22:58:28 or no, i see. 22:58:39 Yeah, I can't do that. 22:58:52 How would I use &rest to throw some away? 22:59:03 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e3f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:59:12 (dest-bind (a b c &rest rest) ... (declare (ignore rest)) ...) 22:59:22 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:45 |3b|: I just pushed some stuff I seem to have had lying around. You may have to skip to a previous commit because it seems I started renaming things and disabled the http module in the process. 22:59:57 That only would be useful if I weren't giving split a :limit 4, right? 23:00:00 *sykopomp* just loads it to see. 23:00:15 iandalton: yeah, that would work pretty much the same as my one with ignore. 23:00:18 *|3b|* just needs tcp for the moment, so as long as it loads broken http is ok 23:00:33 *sykopomp* stops talking and tries to actually load the thing. 23:02:13 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-231-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-63-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:02:26 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 23:03:43 yeah, http needs some updating, but tcp seems fine. Hopefully things aren't too insane. 23:05:07 eee [~user@c50-26-74-15.amrlcmtk01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:57 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:00 destructuring-bind only binds the variables within its own scope. I'm trying to assign values to parameters. Is there anything that works like it but binds variables globally? 23:11:47 that wouldn't really be a binding so much as an assignment. which is what you're already doing with multiple-value-setq, though i'd rather use (setf (values ...) ...) I guess. 23:12:25 If Lisp Machines were written in something like Common Lisp, does that mean that the present Common Lisps could be used for a modern Lisp OS on x86_64? I was just thinking about how Quicklisp could be the basis of a package manager on such a system. 23:12:59 Mmmm, a question about Common Lisp's design. Is there some fundamental reason on why 'eval' is not a generic function? 23:12:59 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:13:36 It predates generic functions, for one. 23:13:46 Probably not "fundamental" in a meaningful sense. 23:14:28 Damnit. A potential LispOS discussion that I'm going to have to miss. )-: 23:14:43 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:15:48 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:16:27 I see, thanks Bike. 23:16:33 Bike: so you're suggesting that I do (setf (values a b c) (values-list (split re str :limit 4)))? 23:16:57 I suppose so. 23:17:01 ckoch786 [~cory@98.103.82.66] has joined #lisp 23:18:03 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18:04 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.197.140.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:18:58 deveux: you should look up Maru lisp if you haven't. 23:19:09 Thanks, that works. I'm not sure if I'm doing things in the most lisp-y way, but oh well :P 23:19:17 Bike: heh, I was playing with Maru yesterday. 23:20:06 It's very nice, although the compiler is way above my head. 23:20:07 <|3b|> sykopomp: any idea what socket-connect is called now? tcp-client-connect doesn't seem to exist 23:20:50 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-amxdfkqfefgumzbo] has joined #lisp 23:21:06 -!- mrm [~user@46.191.181.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:01 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:25 <|3b|> ah, i guess just tcp-connect? 23:22:28 meh. I shouldn't have pushed those changes. tcp-connect and tcp-listen are the two functions now. The updated server ones weren't even exported. 23:22:31 yeah 23:23:03 I just pushed what I think are the needed fixes for tcp-listener exports, too. I guess this is why I hadn't pushed the stuff yet. :) 23:23:47 <|3b|> well, better to have new api before i write the code that would use it, even if slightly broken :) 23:24:08 davazp [~user@178.167.197.140.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 23:24:12 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:32 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:51 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.197.140.threembb.ie] has quit [Client Quit] 23:31:35 -!- naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:07 naeg [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 23:36:05 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:15 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:37:52 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:41:52 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:25 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:44:49 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:30 walter [~walter@ip-64-134-101-130.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:54 -!- Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:55:03 *maxm* has a disconnect, playing with maru as you are maru the cat owner, or maru is some new package? :-) 23:55:07 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@12.198.68.2] has joined #lisp 23:56:28 google "maru lisp". 23:56:56 Bike: thanks got it 23:57:55 kanwei [~kanwei@unaffiliated/kanwei] has joined #lisp 23:57:56 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp