00:00:08 -!- tjos [~tim@CPE-60-228-51-83.lns8.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:02:23 Kristo [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 00:02:37 -!- Kristo [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:37 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.240.239] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 00:02:49 Kristo [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 00:02:59 -!- Kristo [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:03:11 Kristo [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 00:03:17 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:27 -!- Kristo [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:00 Sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 00:05:00 -!- Sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 00:05:01 Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 00:05:34 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-159-142.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:26 knob [~knob@66-50-7-81.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:17 -!- ffilozov [~user@2a02:8071:2223:6a00:9d77:46:678f:ecdc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:50 `arrdem [~user@wireless-206-76-95-224.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 00:18:44 -!- Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 00:19:11 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:27 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:27:25 -!- `arrdem [~user@wireless-206-76-95-224.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:46 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.210] has joined #lisp 00:39:28 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 00:41:09 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:49:01 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.169.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:31 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 00:52:20 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Quit: Attempt to fix charset] 00:52:39 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 00:56:03 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.74.132] has quit [Quit: Bye] 00:56:24 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:51 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 00:59:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:56 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 01:01:08 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:30 Is there any data on comparing the performance of Common Lisp implementations? 01:04:57 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.86.224] has joined #lisp 01:06:00 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.86.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:05 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:34 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:58 google :P 01:11:59 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:52 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:55 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.3.138] has joined #lisp 01:15:28 Aethaeryn: i've seen some benchmarks, so yes. now i wonder where were at 01:16:10 madnificent: I've seen them months ago and now can't find them on Google. 01:16:31 So now my guess is that the place I saw them was a link in here months ago. 01:17:18 http://www.cliki.net/Performance%20Benchmarks 01:18:51 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 01:18:53 time to redo them :P 01:19:47 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-250-75.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:20:24 Bike: i saw another one. like boinkor or something like that 01:22:59 Looks like sbcl is pretty fast then. 01:27:41 Aethaeryn: CCL is fast too 01:27:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:34:38 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:35:38 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 01:38:36 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.120.153.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:39:38 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:44:25 newbie question, in clos is there any way to preprocess value used with :initarg to parse and convert the data to appropriate type 01:45:05 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:45:26 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:47:34 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:47:59 poindontcare: you could do that in the initialize-instance method 01:49:38 madnificent: i see using the :after method to convert slot from unparsed to parsed data 01:49:56 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:04 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:51:38 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 01:52:02 poindontcare: indeed. if you need it *very* often, you could allow yourself to supply a method in the defclass to parse the content. though i doubt you want to dig into the innards of CLOS at this stage. 01:54:02 poindontcare: It's easier than that 01:54:20 poindontcare: You can just add an :around method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE 01:55:31 loke: ah so i could do the conversion before the setter is invoked 01:55:59 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 01:56:47 Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 01:56:51 poindontcare: Yes, and then pass in the parsed argument in the actual iinitarg 01:57:51 ikarus- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 01:57:58 loke: hmm , what about the :writer option couldn't i use this to do the parsing 01:58:28 Possibly. What i'd do is this though 01:58:31 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:20 poindontcare: if you want setf to work too, you can write the setf method yourself and call that from initialize-instance 01:59:56 madnificent: I was thinking of writing a setf method and then using that as :writer on the slot 02:00:24 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:01:40 Personally, I'd recommend writing a custom constructor, like make-array and so on, rather than stuffing about at the make-instance level. 02:02:04 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:47 Zhivago: *initialize-instance. and i don't necessarily see what's good about that. 02:02:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136680 02:02:54 That's how I do it 02:02:55 poindontcare: i haven't toyed with the writer option :) 02:03:25 (sorry for the ugly indentation, copy-pasted from my repl) 02:03:35 Well, it keeps the slot semantics clean, and allows you to put all of the random sugar and wongulation in a sensible function somewhere. 02:04:23 Sometimes, using :after is more appropriate. It depends on the case. 02:05:23 If you go around playing silly buggers with slot initialization values it can make it hard to reconstruct an object from its slot values. 02:05:31 hickup, but i advised on http://paste.lisp.org/display/136680#2 02:05:50 Zhivago: hmm 02:05:54 Zhivago: the sugar should be transparent 02:06:21 Sure, in which case you can't go around transforming values at that level. 02:06:24 Zhivago: with your solution, you're introducing another layer. if you forget to use that custom layer, you'll receive unexpected results. 02:06:56 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 02:06:58 Zhivago: whilst you could also just tie it into the implementation and not have the unexpected results. i'm not always against creating a constructor, but this situation doesn't seem to be one of the cases where it seems appropriate. 02:07:04 Sure, and with the alternative, if you forget to be able to invert whatever transforms you made at construction, you'll receive unexpected results on reconstruction. 02:07:12 not sure but madnificent and loke's way seems relativly innocent and easy 02:07:25 Sure -- just an issue of making an informed choice. 02:07:50 Zhivago: you'll have to create a custom writer if you want to be able to read the object back in anyways. it's not like a struct. 02:08:38 Zhivago: in the case of a struct, writing another constructor method can indeed be a wise choice. 02:09:48 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:10:49 Class serialisers use SLOT-VALUE to write the slots anyway, so the INITIALIZE-INSTANCE stuff doesn't even apply 02:11:34 Serialization isn't an issue -- the issue is deserialization. 02:11:48 Zhivago: Why? 02:11:58 again, SLOT-VALUE is used 02:12:15 deserialisation does not use initargs to write the slots 02:12:39 Well, you need to get an instance from somewhere to write into ... 02:12:55 Yes. It comes from ALLOCATE-INSTANCE 02:13:01 loke: you're completely right. there's another level at which you can solve this. not sure what the right level of the two is though. 02:13:46 A serialiser never calls MAKE-INSTANCE 02:13:53 loke: as in, i don't know what is prefered. i vastly depends on poindontcare's specific issue, i recon. 02:13:53 (deserialiser) 02:15:10 madnificent: Indeed. I just took issue with the argument that a serialisation mechanism would have trouble with this. That is false. His specific issue may expose _other_ problems though, but serialisation is definitely not one of them. 02:15:12 madnificent: as a beginner I am not dealing too much with writing so having initialize-instance is fine 02:15:15 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:43 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:47 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:16:06 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-199-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:03 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:03 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:18:03 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 02:18:17 loke: indeed 02:18:23 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:19:27 madnificent: as a beginner I am not dealing too much with writing so having initialize-instance is fine 02:19:34 oops , sorry 02:19:57 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 02:20:01 -!- Nauntilus [~NickServ@ip68-2-92-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 02:20:51 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:21:33 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:21:57 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:24:46 evening sirs 02:24:50 madams 02:26:16 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:28 evening syrinx 02:29:08 damncanuck [~user@CPE0021299205a6-CMbc1401e089d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:20 can CL stay obscure please? it is too hard find a room full of smart AND nice people (who am i paying the ticket for this offtopic comment?) 02:35:50 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:36:22 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:48 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 02:37:32 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:38:10 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 02:43:52 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has joined #lisp 02:45:02 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:46:48 is there a function like reduce that accumulates and returns all the intermediate values, not just the end result? 02:49:34 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:50:35 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:19 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:53:47 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:55:51 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:08 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 03:04:02 ikarus-: just use LOOP 03:06:59 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:08:39 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 03:10:58 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:39 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:54 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-10-198.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:14:06 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:40 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 03:20:44 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 03:20:45 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:21:12 rrradica_ [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:32 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:26:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:13 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:31:41 -!- Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32:04 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 03:32:30 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.48.67] has joined #lisp 03:36:27 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:40:54 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:42:52 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 03:43:02 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 03:44:45 or just use reduce 03:49:00 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:54:59 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:55:58 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 03:56:25 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:59:58 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 04:03:30 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:03:35 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 04:03:53 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:05:37 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:06:02 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 04:07:07 capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:17 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.48.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:08:32 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:14:18 Guest49170 [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 04:14:19 newbie question is #' same as symbol-function ? 04:14:25 nope 04:14:29 -!- Guest49170 [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has left #lisp 04:14:47 it's just a function, for one, rather than #' which is FUNCTION which is a special operator 04:15:15 Bike: hmm interesting 04:16:23 gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:12 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 04:26:43 symbol-function will not see any lexically bound functions. 04:27:16 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.40] has joined #lisp 04:27:24 ah 04:32:43 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:38:04 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 04:45:21 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50:21 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:56:00 -!- capcrunch [~capcrunch@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:56:50 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:06 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:57:48 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 04:58:41 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:02:58 teggi [~teggi@113.172.61.40] has joined #lisp 05:05:33 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011f7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:07:06 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:07:39 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:10 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 05:12:33 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:12:39 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 05:15:27 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 05:16:58 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:36 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 05:17:55 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:25 -!- ikarus- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 05:20:24 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:26:40 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025029.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:26:48 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.190.62] has joined #lisp 05:27:23 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:30 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 05:28:32 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:30:31 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:32:18 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 05:33:46 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 05:35:08 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:43:23 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:45:57 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:27 -!- bolcselo [~x@pool-108-45-77-30.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:47 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:39 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 05:49:03 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest90724 05:49:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.30.47] has joined #lisp 05:49:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.30.47] has quit [Changing host] 05:49:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:50:02 p_nathan [~Adium@76.178.163.213] has joined #lisp 05:53:30 -!- Guest90724 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:02 Hi, to run a built ccl, do I just really need the dx86cl64 and the dx86cl64.image? 05:56:25 or does it need sources distributed with it 05:56:41 gendl: kernel executable and image are sufficient 05:57:07 it's not going to try to load any modules at runtime with require or anything like that? 05:57:34 not unless you tell it to do so 05:58:04 like, when you compile some code that uses the #_ functionality, you'll need to have the cdb files 05:58:48 the person on the receiving end is not going to do anything fancy, just normal Lisp development. 05:59:09 anyway i'll just test out a typical use case with the kernel executable and image. 05:59:12 thanks. 05:59:20 well, i'd not try that, really 05:59:32 o really? 05:59:40 i mean, what if the person loads a library through quicklisp that uses #_ in its ccl dependent version? 05:59:50 o ya 05:59:59 just stuff the whole ccl directory into a zip or tar and have them use that. 06:00:13 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:30 the whole 360MB eh? 06:01:17 well I see the huebner directory in contrib, 06:01:22 certainly won't want to leave that out 06:01:23 ! 06:01:24 ;) 06:01:41 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:02:07 just have a look at the space that a typical eclipse installation requires :) 06:02:13 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:02:24 ok fair enough, we'll just ship it all. it's not worth the time these days to try to slim down things like this, i suppose. 06:03:30 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:08:40 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:10:45 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:13:25 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-611ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:13:48 kazagistar [~kazagista@host-174-45-110-9.bzm-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:03 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:15:55 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-248-75.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19:34 I am new to functional programming, and I am wondering if there is an existing function that is like map, but passes both each item and it's cdr to the lambda? 06:19:56 kazagistar: not precisely, but maplist 06:20:27 kazagistar: note that this channel is about common lisp, not about functional programming 06:20:40 sorry, I didn't know where I should ask 06:21:12 well, if you're using common lisp, you got the answer. if it is something else, you'll need to find help elsewhere 06:21:23 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 06:22:50 <_8david> sure, maplist is the answer. But many people also write (loop for (car . cdr) on list collect ...), which is decided not functional, but very useful. 06:22:50 I am using something else, but I am more interested in.... terminology I guess? 06:23:00 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:44 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:24:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host29.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:24:52 colin_ [~colin@114-37-141-138.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:58 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192076.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:27 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:54 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 06:32:30 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:05 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 06:34:00 hmm, I still don't get how maplist would do what I want it to... (1 2 3) should run a function on (1 2 3) (2 3) and (3)... 06:34:29 or just what it should be called if it does not exist 06:35:51 clhs maplist 06:35:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 06:38:02 oh, that explanation makes it much more clear, thanks! 06:38:20 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:42:47 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:29 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 06:45:23 tcr1 [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:48:39 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:52:00 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:52:00 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:52:35 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192076.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 06:54:21 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:15 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 06:56:03 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:39 zorkmoid [c2ed8e11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.17] has joined #lisp 06:59:11 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:01:56 -!- arrdem is now known as `arrdem 07:02:08 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 07:02:59 jiaxi [~chatzilla@116.226.235.185] has joined #lisp 07:06:35 -!- Guest21781 [~lukas@194.228.13.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:52 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.190.62] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:07:43 jiakai [~yaaic@116.226.235.185] has joined #lisp 07:08:37 -!- jiakai [~yaaic@116.226.235.185] has quit [Client Quit] 07:08:42 oh, interesting: Database error: Socket error in "socket": EPROTONOSUPPORT (Protocol not supported) [Condition of type CL-POSTGRES:DATABASE-SOCKET-ERROR], from CL-POSTGRES::INITIATE-CONNECTION 07:09:53 that might be my first occasion to include an automated restart in my code, so that it keeps retrying when that happens 07:10:08 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10:58 EPROTONOSUPPORT? 07:11:07 Does it happen intermittently? 07:12:17 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 07:13:12 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:16:51 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:17:46 once in a blue moon or about 07:17:52 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 07:18:47 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:21:57 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.95.226] has joined #lisp 07:22:44 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:32 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 07:25:56 -!- 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fe[nl]ix: I just got back up. is what I would do if I really wanted to break lexical scope. 07:58:10 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:22 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-11-109.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:09 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:01:03 -!- arrdem is now known as arrdem-lurkn 08:02:26 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.3.138] has left #lisp 08:03:21 -!- gmcastil [~user@216-160-191-3.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:03:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:03:48 Joreji [~thomas@88-219.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:22 Longlius [~Longlius@alice.memphis.edu] has joined #lisp 08:05:53 Can I tell CL-STORE _not_ to store some slots of a class, because they are only caches? 08:07:29 serializable-slots 08:07:30 ah, I could override serializable-slots 08:07:35 stassats: thanks ;) 08:08:23 or use a real 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[~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:37:28 ehu [~ehu@31.138.7.121] has joined #lisp 08:41:25 Joreji [~thomas@88-219.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:55 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:43:18 baggers [c2b06990@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.176.105.144] has joined #lisp 08:45:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:47:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:47:24 -!- Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 08:48:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:56:15 is there somew ay to make the slime-compilation buffer a bit nicer? maybe sort things into a tree, so i can ignore a bunch of annoying style-warnigs that i'm not inclined to fix right now ... 08:56:49 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:02:58 Odyessus [~odyessus@guest-wlan.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 09:08:36 pbt [59aed64a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.174.214.74] has joined #lisp 09:09:46 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:11:18 xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 09:11:47 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 09:12:21 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 09:13:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:14:10 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:14:21 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:14:24 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 09:15:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:16:30 -!- colin_ [~colin@114-37-141-138.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:30 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:23:05 zorkmoid: there's nothing that a little elisp can't fix 09:23:20 elisp can't fix elisp 09:23:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for can't fix elisp. 09:24:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@88-219.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25:25 zorkmoid: try using (slime-setup '(slime-compiler-notes-tree)) (setq slime-compilation-finished-hook 'slime-list-compiler-notes) 09:25:57 nothing wrong with elisp.. thanks for the tip. 09:26:02 -!- arrdem-lurkn [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:17 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-229-39.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:26:31 arrdem-lurkin [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 09:27:22 stassats`: awesome, thanks 09:27:56 well, awesome except that no source location is available for the single warning that i see. 09:28:20 in fact for none of the errors that are in the tree, apparent. 09:28:25 -!- arrdem-lurkin [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:31 corrrection, use slime-maybe-list-compiler-notes 09:29:00 arrdem-lurkin [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 09:29:25 -!- arrdem-lurkin is now known as arrdem 09:29:26 it's no good either 09:29:28 blimey 09:29:37 -!- arrdem is now known as arrdem-lurkin 09:29:54 well, it is a starting point to fix thing 09:29:55 slime-list-compiler-notes shows [no notes] when there's no notes, and slime-maybe-list-compiler-notes doesn't pop up at all 09:30:53 i could just muffel style warnings i suppose... 09:31:33 ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:02 slime-maybe-list-compiler-notes, "don't pop up a buffer if all notes are already annotated in the buffer itself" 09:32:08 ah, whatever, i'm not going to fix it 09:32:22 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:30 it is a bunch of auto converted markup crud that gives me a headache, it works, just a bunch of silly warnings .. so well, whatever 09:32:56 (involves fixing one really hairy macro) 09:32:58 -!- pbt [59aed64a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.174.214.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:37:14 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:37:15 -!- Posterdati_Fail is now known as Posterdati 09:39:02 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 09:40:17 KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.243.145] has joined #lisp 09:40:57 NeverMined [~never@adsl-76-217-57-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:03 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:44:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:45:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:46:41 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 09:46:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 09:46:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:48:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 09:48:50 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 09:48:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 09:48:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:52:08 -!- jiaxi [~chatzilla@116.226.235.185] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Firefox 19.0.2/20130307023931]] 09:58:29 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:33 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 10:10:44 Dear CL-WHO developers/maintainers: Is there a chance to get ITER recognized and understood? 10:10:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:11:22 flip214_: of course. the chance involves someone who is interested in it to send a pull request with a fix. 10:13:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:15:47 I'm pretty sure TRT must be done on iterate's end. 10:16:09 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:17:30 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:19:26 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:22:57 -!- xificurC [~xificurC@adsl-dyn236.78-98-85.t-com.sk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:23:33 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:44 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:00 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-7-81.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:29:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:30:19 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:33 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:35:36 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-118-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] 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has joined #lisp 10:51:07 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:58:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:03:29 -!- arrdem-lurkn is now known as kgor 11:03:47 -!- kgor is now known as arrdem-lurkn 11:05:58 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 11:06:03 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:33 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:09:43 pbt [59aed64a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.89.174.214.74] has joined #lisp 11:13:03 say I want to use the :reconnect restart of postmodern around a with-connection macro usage, how would the code look like? 11:13:49 (handler-bind ((connection-error (lambda (c) (invoke-restart 'reconnect)))) ...) 11:14:22 naturally 11:14:25 thanks. what if I didn't import the symbol, it would then be 'pomo:reconnect? 11:15:01 naturally is good to know too, that's my first try at actually using restarts non-interactively 11:18:54 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:20:11 -!- NeverMined [~never@adsl-76-217-57-126.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:20 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:37 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 11:20:57 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 11:21:14 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:13 anyone know of a code duplicate finding tool? 11:25:46 when you reload code with load, at the REPL, and the program is running with multiple threads (using lparallel, which in turns uses bordeaux-threads), when do those threads see the new code? 11:26:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:26:22 when they try to call it by name 11:27:26 ok, thanks 11:29:09 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-005-191.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:16 in that case I have installed a new handler-bind, if a condition is signaled again I will get into the debugger same as before, and should refrain from invoking the :reconnect restart manually because by doing so, the function in which I have the with-connection call will not be "reloaded" in the thread 11:29:44 I should then use something like lparallel restart "transfert-error" and deal with it in a way that restarts from somewhere else... 11:29:52 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:55 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:55 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 11:29:56 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-005-191.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:29:56 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 11:29:56 mmm I might as well stop the current execution and start a new one, maybe 11:30:57 -!- baggers [c2b06990@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.176.105.144] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:34:05 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:35:51 SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 11:38:52 Odyessus_ [~odyessus@089144192076.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:33 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:40:45 -!- brendyyn is now known as brendyn 11:41:17 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@guest-wlan.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:18 -!- Odyessus_ is now known as Odyessus 11:42:43 has anyone taken the time to rip out parts of cl-blog? specially the html table code.. 11:43:02 -!- nalaginrut [~nalaginru@61.14.130.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:43:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:43:49 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-611ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 11:44:11 and define-form seems nice 11:46:32 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192076.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:46:40 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-611ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:48:50 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 11:51:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:52:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.114] has joined #lisp 11:55:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.114] has quit [Changing host] 11:55:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:56:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 11:57:23 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:00:42 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-611ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:00:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:03:44 interesting, formlets is kinda like define-form from webutils (cl-blog).. 12:05:46 walid [~walid@162.38.22.98] has joined #lisp 12:05:56 -!- walid [~walid@162.38.22.98] has left #lisp 12:09:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-56-40-229.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:12:03 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:32 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:12:45 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@alice.memphis.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:50 -!- kazagistar 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[Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:14 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:47:44 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.210] has joined #lisp 12:48:54 fascinating: ASDF could not load sb-bsd-sockets because Component :UIOP not found, required by #. 12:49:01 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192076.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:50:19 tried loading it from the directory in which asdf is residing (and having *default-pathname-defaults* in the registry) 12:50:28 asdf is always there to surprise you by trying to upgrade itself 12:50:55 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 12:51:13 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.62] has joined #lisp 12:51:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:01 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 12:57:23 -!- eslg [~esalagaev@mail.star-force.com] has left #lisp 12:57:55 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 12:59:07 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:59:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:01:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:01:45 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:03:29 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:05:21 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:07:49 easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:11:35 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:12:02 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-6-168.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 13:15:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:16:44 stassats: is this with 2.33.2? 13:17:06 from a git pull from common-lisp.net in the last 24 hours or so? 13:17:22 with any version 13:17:25 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 13:17:27 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.138.7.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:19:25 i'm not able to replicate. I just did (ql:quickload :sb-bsd-sockets) and received no complaints. 13:19:32 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dlhmebjoibkvcbud] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:33 SBCL 1.1.6 Darwin 13:20:03 i'm not asking to replicate 13:20:25 are you asking for feedback? 13:20:48 i'm just expressing my great admiration of asdf 13:21:00 is that sarcasm? 13:21:04 yes 13:21:20 and i resolved the issue, see the second message 13:22:10 ok. sorry I didn't catch that part. 13:23:55 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.48.62] has quit [Quit: jmIrc destroyed by the OS] 13:26:43 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.26.118.223] has joined #lisp 13:28:02 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:34 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-254-252.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:34:34 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:59 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:36:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:37:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:07 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:38:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:40:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:40:25 ehu [~ehu@109.35.250.109] has joined #lisp 13:42:03 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:36 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:45:45 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 13:47:28 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:31 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:50:55 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:12 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:55:48 enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 13:57:33 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 13:59:22 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:01:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:06 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.27] has joined #lisp 14:07:59 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:59 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:09:25 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:09:56 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:11:36 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:12:53 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:55 -!- varjag_ is now known as varjag 14:15:57 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:43 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 14:19:49 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:38 -!- anaumov [~an@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:27:24 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.214] has joined #lisp 14:27:29 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:28:07 -!- elia [~elia@195.47.251.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:28:11 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:28:50 elia [~elia@195.47.251.192] has joined #lisp 14:30:27 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:35 Hey folks - how does a CL compiler detect if a particular form needs to be wrapped in a closure or not? 14:32:11 *Xach* doesn't know but guesses "references to lexically bound variables" 14:32:14 detects ? 14:32:21 I'm hosting the ECL CLOS code and it does a check on every DEFMETHOD to see if the DEFMETHOD body needs to be wrapped in a closure or not. 14:33:05 maybe some flow analysis to see if a lambda is returned, if so, it wraps it. If not, there's not need. 14:33:38 rhinux [~rhinux@101.69.74.150] has joined #lisp 14:33:41 drmeister: doesn't that happen automatically by virtue of the method using LAMBDA? 14:33:54 just like it should for DEFUN? 14:34:08 drmeister: The 'lexical' part of 'lexical closure' might help -- I think you're confusing lexical closures anonymous functions. 14:34:17 er, with. 14:34:18 It uses an implementation dependent trick - it sets the dynamic variable *CODE-WALKER* to a local function and calls the function EVAL-WITH-ENV which byte-compiles the form and the compiler has been hijacked to call *CODE-WALKER* on every form. 14:34:40 Many lexical closures can be realized without producing function implementations. 14:36:42 The CODE-WALKER function gets called for every form that would be evaluated and CODE-WALKER checks to see if the lexical environment ever contains two or more "function-boundaries" (this will happen if an anonymous function is created within the method body. If so - it is likely to need a closure. 14:37:32 oticat` [~oticat@114-25-205-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:38:36 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:39:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:40:18 So I'm trying to mimic this complex analysis and I got it to work in my compiler but it generates all this code that is then thrown away and it also clobbers something in LLVM that I haven't tracked down. 14:40:55 Basically, code-walking by hijacking the compiler seems like an inefficient way to do things. 14:41:19 you don't have an intermediate representation? 14:44:48 So here is the question: Does anyone know of a portable CL code-walker that would let me detect if code within a form tries to access lexical bindings in the environment outside of the augmented environments created by the form; AND isn't this the _best_ way to detect if a form needs to be wrapped in a closure? 14:44:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:45:43 stassats`: Yes I have an intermediate representation - I have sexps and LLVM-IR - neither of them make it trivial to detect the need for closures. 14:45:48 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@114.243.243.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:45:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:46:18 drmeister: sounds like you need an intermediate intermediate representation. Optimisations (e.g. dead code elimination) could eliminate the need for an environment. 14:46:45 drmeister: You just need to be able to detect free variables. 14:46:50 code-walking is a lousy way to do anything 14:46:53 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 14:47:12 How do you detect free variables? 14:47:34 drmeister: Well, they're not (a) parameters, or (b) local, or (c) global. 14:47:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:47:55 free wrt to a particular lambda 14:48:02 So you go and look for them in the enclosing lexical environment. 14:48:03 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:48:32 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 14:48:36 Then you decide on how to get them to where they need to be -- which might involve hoisting or producing a shared environment or some such. 14:48:45 If a form has free variables then it needs to be wrapped in a closure - correct? 14:49:00 No. 14:49:00 no 14:49:14 Lexical closure is a property that a function has. 14:49:27 I think you're confusing it with some way of implementing functions. 14:49:49 If you stop saying 'closure' and start saying 'lexical closure' this might be easier to understand. 14:49:59 It's a _lexical_ property. 14:50:32 doesn't LiSP talk about these things? 14:50:49 i haven't read it fully 14:51:08 One way to deal with lexical closures is to transform the code so that it doesn't have lexical closures anymore. 14:51:35 e.g., turn the free variables into bound variables by adding them as parameters. 14:51:40 Zhivago: I probably am. Currently when I call functions - I wrap all arguments into activation frames and call the function. This is very slow but if the function returns a closure then it can return one. It's probably why my code is so slow. If I knew which forms needed activation frames and which ones I could just call with arguments on the stack at compile time then I could set up the code appropriately and things would be 14:51:40 a lot faster. 14:51:52 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:04 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:15 Then you need to do some lexical analysis to detect the lexical closures. 14:52:15 Am I making sense? 14:53:03 Zhivago: Right - I'm not doing any lexical analysis currently. So I'm thinking that lexical analysis involves walking the form and detecting free variables. 14:53:18 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:53:51 As you walk function forms you can assemble a lexical environment and interrogate it, yes. 14:54:00 This is coming up now because when I'm trying to get ECL CLOS to work I find that DEFMETHOD is doing some lexical analysis to detect if the method code will create closures. 14:54:49 You might want to get a book on compilers -- Appel's Tiger book is quite good, as I recall. 14:55:28 So I have two problems that stem from my lack of understanding of lexical analysis and how you detect if a form can return a closure. 14:55:50 if you have a suitable intermediate representation, the answer to whether a function closes over any variables becomes trivial 14:55:55 Return a function that has lexical closure. 14:56:39 And then what you really mean is 'return a function that has some shared lexical bindings' 14:57:46 You really need to stop saying 'a closure' -- it's sloppiness like saying 'a hash' instead of 'a hash-table' that's making this more complicated at the moment. 14:57:47 Zhivago: That is helpful "return a function that has some shared lexical bindings" - shared with what? 14:57:57 With some other function. 14:58:15 i.e., the function that has the binding that the function you returned closed over. 14:58:37 (let ((x 1)) #'(lambda (y) (+ x y))) doesn't share lexical bindings with any other functions. 14:58:41 You only need to bother sharing if the binding is mutable -- otherwise you can just copy it and remove the lexical closure that way. 14:58:58 (let ...) becomes (lambda ...) 14:59:17 (let ((a 1) (+ a 1)) is (funcall (lambda (a) (+ a 1) 1) 14:59:28 So you do have two functions there. 14:59:45 Oops, missing ) there. 15:00:01 if i make an executable image, how portable would that be? 15:00:09 i know that question is vague and badly stated 15:00:15 it i knew more i wouln't ask :) 15:00:20 if* 15:00:34 protist: About as portable as a C binary. 15:00:41 Zhivago: wow :) 15:00:47 i.e., not. 15:00:54 as any binary 15:00:56 Zhivago: :/ 15:01:03 I very much appreciate your correcting my language - part of my problem is I don't have a clear understanding of the concepts. 15:01:39 Zhivago: like would the main limitation be 32 vs 64 bit and x86 vs arm etc...or would there be issues from linux to windows? 15:01:55 libc version is an issue 15:02:20 and of course, linux to windows 15:02:34 drmeister: (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (+ a b))) 15:02:36 if i had dependencies like using tcl to make a gui, would all those dependencies be in the image? 15:03:00 no 15:03:01 Zhivago: So I need to detect if a function is going to return another function that shares lexical bindings with another function - correct? 15:03:01 drmeister: Identify the bound and free variables of the inner and outer functions. 15:03:13 Returning has nothing to do with it, really. 15:03:51 Zhivago: Ok, returning is not important. What is important? 15:04:05 drmeister: Identifying the free and bound variables of the inner and outer functions. 15:04:44 stassats`: they wouldn't? 15:04:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:04:54 protist: of course they wouldn't 15:05:01 stassats`: is their a way to package it all together neatly? 15:05:21 protist: are you using Mac OS X? 15:05:30 Xach: fedora 18 15:06:20 fedora has tcl and tk packages, why do you want to create your own? 15:06:55 i was more just curious if i could make a image that would be portable to other os's....with dependencies included 15:07:01 an* 15:07:17 protist: You could, and it would look pretty much like source code. 15:07:31 Zhivago: Ok - I do that now. When I compile a form and I hit a symbol, I classify the symbol as 'lexical-var or 'special-var. If it's in my lexical environment and not declared lexically special then I classify it as a 'lexical-var, if it is lexically special I classify it as a 'special-var, otherwise if its not in the current lexical environment I classify it as 'special-var. 15:07:32 Or some kind of byte code or ... 15:07:34 Zhivago: so you can't do it with some magic image? 15:07:48 drmeister: Can you identify the free and bound variables in my example above? 15:08:53 zhivago: Well, I have function boundaries in the environment. If I cross a function boundary and then see the lexical variable, I guess that would be a free variable - is that correct? 15:09:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:26 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:09:41 drmeister: It would be a free variable if it is not bound by the function in question. 15:09:54 drmeister: if the let is making something that has no possibility of being mutated in the code that uses it, then the compiler has no reason to make a closure, it would just take the value and compile it in 15:10:19 drmeister: if it is smart 15:10:31 drmeister: So, (lambda (a) (lambda (b) (+ a b))) -- what are the free and bound variables of each of those functions? 15:11:04 protist: drmeister can't decide how to create ordinary closures, and you're telling him about optimizations 15:11:23 Say (let ((x 1)) #'(lambda (y) (+ x y))) - when I'm evaluating/compiling x in the (+ x y) the environment would look something like: ('y 'FUNCTION-BOUNDARY 'x). 15:11:37 Heh. Just wait until we get to the analysis required to stack-allocate closures and their value cells! 15:11:37 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:54 drmeister: let me know if you decide to answer the question. 15:12:32 Zhivago: Reading - thinking 15:12:45 drmeister: a 'closure' is just a peice of code with its own peice of mutable memory....this happens when you have a local variable that cannot be garbage collected because that memory might be altered later 15:12:49 that reminds me of a bug in sbcl's stack-analysis, which i can't quite fix 15:13:14 Zhivago: In the inner lambda a is free, b is bound. In the outer lambda a is bound. 15:13:26 drmeister: Good. 15:14:00 the biggest problem in fixing ir1/2 bugs is inability of good visualization of the data-structures 15:14:15 drmeister: So to acquire the free a in the inner lambda it needs to find an enclosing lexical environment where it is bound. 15:14:19 poking blindly in the inspector is rarely helpful 15:14:22 nyef: alternative: evict value cells dynamically, like Lua. 15:14:26 Zhivago: Ok, so I know how I can detect and distinguish between free/bound variables... 15:14:43 (lambda(x) (let ((y x)) (lambda (u) (incf y))) 15:14:53 drmeister: It's bound in the enclosing function, so the inner function has a lexical closure over a. 15:14:55 stassats`: I know *someone* had code for IR1 -> dot. 15:15:14 drmeister: Sure -- it's easy once you look at it right. 15:15:56 drmeister: Once you can identify the lexical closures, the next problem is to determine escape. 15:16:05 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:15 Zhivago: What is escape? 15:16:19 drmeister: Can you identify the lexical closure in (let ((a 1)) (let ((b 2)) (+ a b))) ? 15:16:27 lp 533930 15:16:28 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/533930 15:16:30 that bug 15:17:02 drmeister: Escape is where a reference to something leaves the region of lexical analysis. 15:17:10 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:17:22 Zhivago: I'm a little fuzzy on the let/lambda relationship. 15:17:43 drmeister: (let ((a 1)) ...) is equivalent to (funcall (lambda (a) ...) 1) 15:18:06 Zhivago: Ok, sure. 15:18:19 drmeister: So you can see where the lexical closure is in that example? 15:18:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:18:41 drmeister: Now, the important thing to see is that no reference to the inner function there escapes from the region of lexical analysis. 15:18:47 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 15:19:16 Zhivago: In the (let ((a 1)) (let ((b 2)) (+ a b)))? (let ((a 1)) (funcall (lambda (b) (+ a b)) 2) - right? 15:19:37 So the inner lambda is a lexical closure. 15:19:47 drmeister: Over a, yes. 15:20:01 Ok, let me try and repeat that back. 15:20:58 drmeister: do you know Perl? 15:20:59 Because the inner lambda references the free variable "a" which is bound in the outer lambda - the inner lambda is a lexical closure on "a". 15:21:20 drmeister: over, rather than on, but yes. 15:22:22 protist: I've got extensive programming experience in about a dozen languages - I not written more than 100 lines of Perl but I have read Perl code many times. 15:22:34 "I have not written more than ..." 15:22:56 well, a 100 lines of perl is a lot of one-liners 15:22:56 drmeister: Now you have a couple of options -- the simplest is to transform the code so that there is no-longer a lexical closure there. 15:22:57 Zhivago: Let me think on that for a moment. 15:23:03 drmeister: oh...i was going to give anologous Perl code...but it probably wouldn't make sense unless you have done a lot of Perl 15:23:28 drmeister: Can you think of how to arrange for a to be bound in the inner function in that example? 15:24:06 drmeister: every time you say (let ((a b) (c d)) .... it is like my $a = $b; my $c=$d ....the scoping of 'my' in Perl is lexical like in Lisp 15:24:13 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:49 Zhivago: Thinking... 15:25:11 dwts [pid@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vplyalxmgbkgwajd] has joined #lisp 15:25:15 drmeister: sub makecounter{ my $start = shift; return sub {my $i = shift; $start += $i; return $start}} 15:25:17 -!- dwts [pid@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-vplyalxmgbkgwajd] has left #lisp 15:25:32 protist: That's not useful. 15:25:45 (let ((a 1)) (let ((zz a) (b 2)) (+ a zz)))? 15:26:18 drmeister: the counter that makes a function that retains $start....it is a closure 15:26:42 drmeister: Good. You add a parameter to the inner function and pass in the value -- there are no free variables and no lexical closures. 15:26:46 s/the counter/countermaker/ 15:27:18 drmeister: You can do that in this case because you can determine lexically that no references to the inner function escape, and/or there are no mutations of the variable that was closed over. 15:27:27 drmeister: Does that make sense? 15:27:38 protist: Give me a few minutes here, I'm making some progress with Zhivago and Perl doesn't speak to me. 15:27:51 drmeister: kk sorry, carry on :0 15:27:52 :) * 15:27:58 Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 15:28:15 protist: No problem - I really appreciate when people try to educate me. :-) 15:28:16 drmeister: How about in the case of (let ((a 1)) (foo (lambda (b) (+ a b))))? 15:28:20 Zhivago: Yes. 15:28:43 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:28:53 Zhivago: I mean, I do that intuitively all the time. 15:29:10 Sure, now you need to formalize that intuition a little. 15:29:29 Can you transform the code in the (let ((a 1)) (foo (lambda (b) (+ a b)))) to remove the lexical closure? 15:29:36 Zhivago: I understand. 15:30:01 -!- enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:04 Now this thing about "because you can determine lexically that no references to the inner function escape..." 15:30:27 That means I'm not returning the inner function. 15:30:30 Well, in the first case, you can see that nothing refers to the inner function other than the call to it. 15:30:38 No, returning isn't important. 15:31:03 Consider (let ((a 1)) (foo (lambda (b) (+ a b)))) -- the inner function is not returned -- a reference is passed to another function. 15:31:06 Ok, returning isn't important - how else can something refer to the inner function? 15:31:37 FOO stores it in a global variable 15:31:40 By binding it to something -- by a call, by an assignment, by returning, etc. 15:31:48 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:32:06 Zhivago: In that example - LAMBDA is the macro LAMBDA - correct? 15:32:13 Sure. 15:32:24 (let ((a 1)) (foo #'(lambda (b) (+ a b)))) 15:32:27 which usually is called "escaping" 15:32:40 Sure, the #' is superfluous. 15:33:02 The important part here is that we don't know what foo does -- it's outside of our scope of analysis. 15:33:10 Zhivago: Ok, I see how that can escape if foo puts it in a global variable. 15:33:20 So we need to assume the worst. 15:33:27 Even if you think you know, things could change. 15:33:36 Zhivago: Got it - I really appreciate the time you are giving me. 15:33:38 drmeister: Can you see how to transform the code so that it no-longer has a lexical closure? 15:33:59 Zhivago: Yesh! Let me think. 15:34:24 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755dc3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:34:50 (foo (lambda (b) (let ((a 1)) (+ a b)))) would be one way 15:35:47 enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 15:36:20 of course, you can do that only if A is initialized to a constant form 15:36:31 Not at all. 15:36:48 i mean the particular form i showed 15:36:50 I'm still thinking... 15:37:04 I'm not looking at your suggestion yet stassats 15:37:20 drmeister: his suggestion shouldn't help much anyways :) 15:37:38 drmeister: Think about if a escapes the region of lexical analysis or not. 15:38:10 drmeister: think about an equivalent shorter peice of code 15:38:38 I'm not seeing it at the moment - I need to think on this a bit. 15:38:53 Please don't tell me the answer at this point. 15:38:58 drmeister: Then tell us if a escapes or not, and it should become easier. 15:39:39 I'm still wrestling with the language "does a escape". 15:40:10 Are all possible references to a in that lexical text or not? 15:40:30 Ok, let me think on that question for a moment. 15:41:04 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:41:06 Zhivago: I think a escapes. 15:41:35 Because foo could put that function in a global and it could be called any time after that and a would need to be there for it. 15:41:36 xani [~user@178.183.142.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 15:41:57 a does not escape. 15:42:02 Hmmmm. 15:42:23 It may have indefinite extent, but it doesn't escape from the lexical region. 15:42:52 But let me give a counter example. 15:42:56 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:42:56 What this means is that we know everything that can possibly happen to a. 15:43:23 Which means that we can prove by lexical analysis that a doesn't get mutated. 15:43:24 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:2054:6e9c:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 15:44:10 (let ((a 1)) (foo #'(lambda (b) (+ a b))) #'(lambda (x) (setq a x))) 15:44:22 that's not the same example 15:44:42 Sure, and in that case a doesn't escape either. 15:44:44 I know but now does a escape? 15:44:48 No. 15:45:08 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:45:50 And we can determine that a's value might change if-and-only-if the second function passed to foo is called. 15:45:56 Zhivago: Can you suggest a reference where they would explain "escape" and the other concepts around this? I need some time to read and think on this. 15:46:54 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.172.132] has joined #lisp 15:47:20 drmeister: I think appels' book should go over it -- it's pretty standard nomenclature. 15:48:28 drmeister: But it's really a problem for values -- lexical bindings can't escape your analysis. Functions binding them can, which can give those bindings indefinite extent. 15:48:40 k0001 [~k0001@host29.190-224-49.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:48:45 Is this "Modern compiler implementation in ML: basic techniques"? 15:48:51 you would still have to allocate a closure for (let ((a X)) (lambda () a)), where X is an arbitrary form 15:48:52 drmeister: What I wanted you to see is that in that example, it is easy to prove that a is a constant binding. 15:49:33 drmeister: You can remove closures over constant bindings by substituting the value for the variable. 15:49:51 drmeister: So it becomes (foo (lambda (b) (+ 1 b))) 15:50:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:50:18 Zhivago: I've been running on about 5-6 hours of sleep for the past couple of months. I usually "get" things in the morning or after I think about them for a while. 15:50:35 In your second example, we can't prove that it's a constant binding unless we can prove that the function that does the mutation can't be called, which we can't do because the function escapes the region of analysis. 15:50:52 Good. Well, I think you should have what you need. 15:51:23 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:26 Just think about (a) lexical closure analysis, (b) escape analysis, (c) extent analysis, and (d) constancy analysis. 15:51:27 but that's just an optimization, at first, allocate closures in all cases 15:51:39 I need to think on this some more. I'll be back. 15:51:49 except when there's no closed over variables, of course 15:52:00 stassats`: I do that already - that's how I've gotten as far as I have. I have ECL CLOS running. 15:52:00 Good luck. 15:52:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:52:42 And yes, it is "Modern compiler implementation in [ML/C/Java]" iirc. 15:53:13 stassats`: I've just gotten to the point where I'm starting to see how I could improve things and I encountered lexical-analysis for the second time in CLOS DEFMETHOD and I need to understand it because my version of it isn't working properly. 15:53:19 and only over variables which are closed over 15:53:21 -!- Sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:48 but if you have constant propagation, the question over (let ((a 1)) (lambda (b) (+ a b))) would just fall off 15:55:59 I've saved this whole discussion in Evernote, I'll go get Appels book from our library. 15:56:37 ecl's defmethod walks the lambda for call-next-method and next-method-p 15:57:12 I really appreciate your help on this. I teach organic chemistry and I deal with teaching all the time. I'm also a good student and I appreciate a good teacher. 15:58:20 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 15:58:28 stassats`: ECL's WALK-METHOD-LAMBDA function returns (values call-next-method-p next-method-p-p in-closure-p) and it only uses in-closure-p. 15:59:47 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:00:07 #'call-next-method needs to close over the values 16:00:27 and against the next method 16:02:55 stassats`: But it only needs to close over them in certain cases - correct? When I put print statements in to see what forms are generating in-closure-p --> t, only a few of them are. 16:03:43 Consider what a future defmethod might do to change what the next method is ... 16:03:47 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:24 It doesn't actually need to close over anything, but the function supplied needs to be aware of the generic function's current methods. 16:05:00 As you see from the discussion above - I don't really understand what is being done here in the ECL code. I am able to mimic it by altering my compiler and interpreter to invoke the function in *CODE-WALKER* for every form that it tries to compile/evaluate. 16:05:04 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:05:34 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 16:05:41 The issue I ran into is when I use my compiler - I run into a problem that appears to be LLVM related. So I switch to my interpreter and that fails for a different reason. 16:06:10 So here I am trying to understand closures and code-walking. 16:06:32 There are only really two important things to understand. 16:06:47 How to identify and get rid of closures where possible. 16:07:18 And how to identify variables of indefinite and dynamic extent and allocate storage appropriately. 16:07:35 e.g., in the heap or on a stack respectively. 16:07:50 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:08:06 (And, of course, how to get rid of variables where possible) :) 16:08:15 Zhivago: And I see how those two important things relate to my more general problem - how to make my compiler smarter/faster 16:08:44 Sure. So start with the analysis tools and those will allow you to understand the problem. 16:08:48 But do they relate to this problem with ECL's defmethod? 16:08:59 Understanding should. 16:09:10 is there support in postmodern for postgresql arrays? 16:09:13 Zhivago: That's what it looks like to me as well. 16:09:18 it doesn't look like it :( 16:10:53 there is 16:12:05 can't find the docs for it, any example? 16:12:10 (or link) 16:12:49 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:12:53 what do you want to do? 16:13:17 retrieve a pgsql array from a resultset as a lisp list 16:13:38 silenius [~silenius@g229077223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:13:44 rather than a a string like "{a,b,c,d}" I want '(a b c d) 16:13:57 could be a vector 16:13:59 hmm, did ,delete-system-fasls now errors out with tip slime and sbcl? 16:14:01 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:05 -!- spligak_ [~spligak@2607:f0d0:1100:8026:2e41:38ff:feaf:1ff7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:21 maxm: yes 16:14:32 any quick fix, I rely on it quite a lot? 16:14:54 dim: works for me (for an array column, i get a vector in the result set) 16:15:13 maybe using :alist is my problem then 16:15:35 apparently not 16:16:15 Forgetaboutit [~sammy@p4FFA6DB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:50 maxm: no 16:17:03 ask Fare 16:17:20 dim: there is support for arrays 16:17:43 at least inserting them iirc 16:17:58 and i'm pretty sure i got back an array from a bytea column 16:18:31 frito [~user@cpc7-sotn8-2-0-cust231.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:08 and a simple (doquery "select * from foo" (n) (print n)) => #(1 2 3) for the table foo (test int[]); 16:22:50 dim: how is your "{a,b,c,d}" defined? 16:23:00 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.250.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:06 what type 16:23:07 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:52 it's the restult of the array_agg() aggregate 16:23:57 but I'm doing it another way 16:24:56 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-161-159.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:43 *maxm* detects disturbance in lisp cooperation field.. guess i'll have to zorg it out 16:26:29 -!- silenius [~silenius@g229077223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 16:26:35 silenius [~silenius@g229077223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:27:38 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-161-119.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:27:48 -!- enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:30:07 -!- rrradica_ [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:31:15 -!- Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:31:20 maxm: i propose you to use ,reload-system instead 16:31:33 bolcselo [~x@pool-108-45-77-30.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:29 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.38] has joined #lisp 16:32:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:46 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:33:51 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 16:33:56 PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 16:34:51 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop` 16:34:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:35:35 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-57-209.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:23 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:36:37 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 16:42:59 -!- rhinux [~rhinux@101.69.74.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:43:54 stassats`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136686 16:44:00 no idea how it worked before 16:44:25 asdf is likes to break things 16:44:37 thin its slime bug 16:44:56 maxm: can you give me a unified diff? 16:45:14 if you tell me how to make emacs vc backend use one quickly 16:45:35 (setq diff-switches "-u") 16:46:04 probably (setq vc-cvs-diff-switches '("-u")) as well 16:46:21 or (setq vc-diff-switches '("-u")) 16:46:26 or both 16:46:40 annotated 16:47:37 now, wait for common-lisp.net to unfuck itself 16:48:35 works for me.. basically just replace "typecase component" with "typecase x" 16:48:42 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:04 what datastore do you guys typically use in your projects? (lisp s-exps printed to file, mysql, postgresql, mongodb)? 16:49:44 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:02 ahungry: vastly dependent on what i need to do. i use postgresql, mysql when needed, bknr.datastore, couchdb, and some internal document-store that i should release soon (and it's what i prefer for smaller things at the moment). 16:50:03 in this case, it's not ASDF breakage, just Fare breakage 16:50:16 ahungry: there's a wide choice, it vastly depends on the project 16:50:31 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-37-214.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:50:48 ahungry: i wrote my own 16:50:53 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.26.118.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:33 enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 16:55:03 ahungry: i try to see how much data will be in the app (and if it may fit in memory) and what types of access i will need to it. if the data is really simple, i use an sql database (SQL is kind-of nice for data manipulation). if the domain is complex, i use something that lets me use full-fledged objects easily. if the app needs to be responsive, i use something that lets me keep the objects in memory. 16:55:53 -!- elia [~elia@195.47.251.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:56:33 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:56:55 -!- wormphle1m [~wormphleg@c-24-6-156-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:57:34 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:58:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:03:02 elia [~elia@93-62-23-183.ip20.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:03:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:03:13 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-213-111.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:21 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-57-209.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:06:13 ipmonger_ [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.114] has joined #lisp 17:06:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.114] has quit [Changing host] 17:06:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:06:43 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:07:04 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 17:07:13 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:10:07 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:10:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:10:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.236.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:10:56 -!- ipmonger_ [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:35 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:33 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-63-82-18.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:48 -!- silenius [~silenius@g229077223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:17:09 -!- elia [~elia@93-62-23-183.ip20.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:17:35 -!- Forgetaboutit [~sammy@p4FFA6DB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 17:18:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:19:00 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:20:53 valeryz [~valeryz@237-133-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:21:43 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:23:27 -!- frito [~user@cpc7-sotn8-2-0-cust231.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:13 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-611ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:26:08 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:29:59 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:30:00 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:59 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 17:31:11 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 17:31:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:17 hi 17:31:34 sup 17:31:34 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-094-219-159-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:31:37 yo 17:32:32 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:32:59 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-196.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:10 solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 17:33:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:33:32 I'm on the process of converting one of my coworkers to Common Lisp and Emacs 17:33:36 he already installed both 17:33:47 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:20 AeroNotix [~xeno@abod43.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:37:51 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:38:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:39:22 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:39:24 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:40:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:41:34 Denommus: what propaganda method do you use? Mine suffers from the drawback of being knows around my schoo as the annoying guy who wont shut up about all the weird tech he uses, where "weird tech" includes such things as git, postgresql and linux, allong with lisp and emacs :) 17:42:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:43:33 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:44:01 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 17:44:56 lol 17:46:13 wow, sorry, Denommus quit, here was the question: what propaganda method do you use? Mine suffers from the drawback of being knows around my schoo as the annoying guy who wont shut up about all the weird tech he uses, where "weird tech" includes such things as git, postgresql and linux, allong with lisp and emacs :) 17:47:27 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:49:41 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:09 this causes a stack overflow? (cadr '#1=('CommonLisp #1#)) 17:53:29 no 17:53:29 is there a way to just cycle through it back to the start without making it try to construct it? 17:53:37 protist: (setf *print-circle* t) 17:53:39 pavelpenev: he is as passionated in technology as me, so that helps 17:53:48 it caused a stack overflow for me 17:53:54 Bike: i'll try that 17:54:01 protist: that's from trying to print the result, which is #1=('CommonLisp #1#) 17:54:31 gotcha :) 17:55:39 Denommus: I once got a non tech user into linux, I still don't know how that happened :) 17:56:13 pnpuff [~mctdh@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:56:16 was it your mom? 17:56:37 one thing that I use to say is that popular is not the best, popular is the average. If you want the best, you must search for it 17:56:49 I learned that from Paul Graham's essays :) 17:59:05 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:00:52 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-24-6-156-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:15 Denommus: the problem is when you are the only one around who cares about what is "best". The downside of going to a c++ school I guess(soon to be .net, good thing I graduate before the switch) :) 18:04:17 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 18:04:55 -!- damncanuck [~user@CPE0021299205a6-CMbc1401e089d0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:05:20 C++ has its niche, for people who need to do most of the work of a compiler 18:06:21 pavelpenev: i'm not certain that getting .net stuff in school as a basic way of working is worse than C++ 18:06:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:52 most curly bracket langs are quite similar 18:07:55 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-183-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:07:58 madnificent: getting jobs will certainly be easier for the students, but considering how bad the architectures course it, I don't know how anyone will learn about pointers now. Maybe thats a good thing, I had to explain references and GC in java to a 4th year student. 18:08:09 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-128-221.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:08:50 and he was one of the best programmers around 18:09:25 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-139.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 18:10:31 zickzackv [~faot@g226060186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:20 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 18:12:36 at least lispers excel in smugness 18:12:44 pavelpenev: many programmers don't know how to construct a cpu, that doesn't necessarily make them bad at their task. the .net platform can offer some abstractions that aren't that easily available in C++, so it could make the education more efficient. (we can drag this to #lispcafe if you want) 18:13:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:00 -!- pnpuff [~mctdh@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:14:10 can't wait to see who takes the Golden Parens at this year's Smuggy awards 18:15:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:17:21 brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:46 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 18:19:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:03 -!- enymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:23:36 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:26:06 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:26:23 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 18:26:42 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:26:58 -!- brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:27:17 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@123.21.175.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:14 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 18:32:29 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:58 brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:34:18 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-177-63.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:34:21 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755dc3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:26 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:55 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-146-179.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:44 -!- brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:38:36 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:05 pnpuff_ [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:45:11 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:45:18 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:46:24 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47:03 brudgers [~opera@68-119-80-136.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g226060186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:42 Could somebody explain why modifying an application while it's running is unique to lisp? I've searched and I can't find why, I just find that it's cool that lisp can do it. I would think almost any language should be able to do this. Especially ones with an interactive shell like ruby 18:49:06 killsto: it is not unique to lisp 18:49:17 killsto: whoever told you that did not tell you the truth. 18:49:21 ruby does it with monkeypatching, doesn't it 18:49:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:50:05 I guess I know other languages can do it, but it seems like it's better in lisp? Or is it just more advertised? 18:50:39 killsto: it has been the preferred mode of operation since a long time, which is why it is known for its interactivity. 18:52:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:52:54 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1177937884.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:53:04 I'd guess slime is a big part of it too 18:53:27 doing a C-c C-c on a new function definition to update it in the REPL is a lot easier than manually typing out in repl 18:54:00 ahungry: slime is by no means the first lisp environment to offer interactive development features by that. 18:54:05 like that. 18:54:05 Was swank around before slime? 18:54:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:54:35 You can even attach with gdb to a running C program and change variables, call functions. Sort of interactivity. But no interpreter or compiler, of course 18:54:52 killsto: no. but there was the lisp machines, allegro common lisp, lispworks. all older than slime. 18:54:52 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:54 valeryz: true, but you can't replace functions. 18:55:22 ehu: you can. 18:55:29 in gdb? 18:55:32 ehu: for some value of "you" and "can" 18:55:35 ah. ok. 18:55:51 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:56:05 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 18:56:09 ehu: hehe, patch the .text section 18:56:16 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-qbzferfxscgaunmf] has joined #lisp 18:56:32 you could do link stuff to "redefine" functions in compiled code without doing crazy memory replacement 18:56:46 damn connection 18:56:58 anyway, smalltalk has a better interactive experience than many lisp systems, i'd say. 18:57:05 and forth is very interactive as well. 18:57:37 oy vey 18:59:11 I had forgotten about that feature in gdb. I used that feature to "cheat" my way through a disassembling assignment a few years back. 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20:53:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-42-173.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:13 -!- MrMc [~user@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:02 killsto: modifying an application while running is the basis of TDD in lisp. 20:59:03 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:29 yours_truly [~yours@mc-193-144.IPReg.mcmaster.ca] has joined #lisp 21:00:10 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 21:00:28 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:00:48 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:36 -!- dnolen` [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:51 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:04:35 -!- yours_truly is now known as Nisstyre-laptop 21:04:40 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:04:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@mc-193-144.IPReg.mcmaster.ca] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:44 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:05:10 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:13 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:44 ASau` [~user@p5797FF1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:11 -!- ASau [~user@p5797FBE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:14:18 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:51 dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:28 alagabes [~alagabes@5.175.161.218] has joined #lisp 21:17:07 hello, I've created simple websocket server (sbcl) and from now one I want it to run on system startup automaticly 21:17:21 I've tried to create init script 21:17:27 but with no luck 21:18:11 sbcl process is created but it is dying as soon as code is loaded 21:18:56 alagabes: is the code compiled, or are you running sbcl and the code "manually"? 21:19:31 I'm a new lisper so i dont really get you question, I'll describe shorlty what am I doing 21:19:35 basicily 21:19:51 arrdem-lurkin [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 21:19:55 sbcl --load "/home/alagabes/web-remote/main.lisp" 21:19:57 thats all 21:19:59 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:20:16 -!- arrdem-lurkin [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:23 I've tried to create a process memory image but this is multithreaded app 21:20:32 alagabes: how is "main.lisp" organized? Is it a function? 21:21:06 give me a second I'll show you 21:21:25 basiclly it starts thread instance for clws handlers 21:21:42 alagabes: but is this code inside a function? 21:21:44 https://bitbucket.org/kubov/web-pilot/src/4ece3efabace84ad4e1e31a050b217abd5c9bd8a/api/web-pilot-api.lisp?at=master 21:21:49 yes 21:21:57 Then you need to call that function as well. 21:22:06 but when I load this code for ma terminal 21:22:10 it works just fine 21:22:24 -!- pnpuff_ [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:22:53 alagabes: you should use sbcl --load "/path/to/main.lisp" --eval "(pilot-api:run)" 21:23:38 run function is only starting shell scripts 21:23:51 it dont belive thats realated to by problem 21:23:56 or, if you had your project on quicklisp/localprojects, sbcl --eval "(ql:quickload 'your-system-definition) (pilot-api:run)" 21:23:58 but ill give it a try 21:24:15 what is your entrance function, then? 21:24:25 there is no entrence function 21:24:32 it is built upon clws system 21:24:41 which create threads 21:24:58 that reacts on specyfinc socket input (websockets) 21:25:06 (bordeaux-threads:make-thread ... 21:25:15 line 50 21:25:52 if start this program form console via sbcl --lod 21:25:54 *load 21:25:57 it works fine 21:26:00 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:26:10 but lets say i create a init.d script 21:26:23 su kubov -c 'sbcl --load /home/kubov/code/web-pilot/api/web-pilot-api.lisp' 21:26:29 and now it wont work 21:26:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:14 Have you tried executing that command from your console? 21:27:53 the last one? 21:27:53 Alternatively, pipe the output of sbcl to a file to see if there's some kind of error going on. 21:27:54 You mean it dies once it sees an EOF at the REPL? 21:28:21 alagabes: The one you just posted 21:28:26 alagabes: you should have an entrance function. Move the defclass and the defmethods upwards, put bordeaus-threads:make-thread and register-global-resource under a function 21:28:45 well this work from a console 21:28:51 but lets say 21:28:56 alagabes: I don't recommend to have a file with direct code running in it besides definitions 21:29:12 Is sbcl doing something weird if it runs without a tty? 21:29:30 Shinmera: i think this might be the thing 21:29:30 alagabes: unless you run it using sbcl --script 21:30:03 alagabes: here, let me show you 21:30:10 ok 21:30:15 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 21:33:11 alagabes: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136687 21:33:34 then you can run it with sbcl --load "/path/to/file.lisp" --eval "(pilot-api:main)" 21:34:04 Denommus: ok, now i get it 21:34:21 after main eval 21:34:37 do you think that this threads will remain execution? 21:35:30 -!- Guest93932 is now known as notori0us 21:35:38 -!- notori0us [~irc@ipv6.notoriouscw.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:35:38 notori0us [~irc@osuosc/notori0us] has joined #lisp 21:36:18 alagabes: I think so. I think you can even use sbcl --load "/path/to/file.lisp" --eval '(sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die "a-binary-name" :executable t :toplevel 'pilot-api:main)' and you'll have a standalone binary 21:38:54 alagabes: tell me if it works :) 21:41:04 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:31 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 21:43:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:56 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755dc3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:44:30 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:10 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:45:33 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:46:46 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:46 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:46:46 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:50:37 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:51:07 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.23.123.14] has joined #lisp 21:51:38 Denommus: unfortunately it does not helped me 21:51:52 i really think the problem here is lack of tty 21:52:17 i'm using dwm, and on startup my windowing system executes ~/.autostart file 21:52:27 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-611ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 21:52:49 I've tried to add there sbcl --load /home/kubov/code/web-pilot/api/web-pilot-api.lisp --eval '(main)' 21:53:15 alagabes: it's eval '(pilot-api:main)' 21:53:17 bo then it intercepts all keyboards input so i cannot do antyhing on X 21:53:28 Denommus: I've removed package specyfication 21:53:30 alagabes: pay attention to the package. I even exported main so you could call it 21:53:32 it works from console 21:53:47 alagabes: I'll give it a try, give me a minute 21:54:13 (of course added (use-package :clws)) 21:54:18 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:05 jacekpod [~jacek@94-192-215-222.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:55:23 I've also tried to move it to background via & but then after my windwowing system startup, there's no sbcl process running 21:56:08 sellout- [~Adium@65.101.242.214] has joined #lisp 21:57:46 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abov122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:59:36 compiling the dependencies 21:59:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.199] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:59:42 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:00:42 italic [~em@unaffiliated/italic] has joined #lisp 22:02:08 alagabes: I just compiled the file, and you're right. It runs the function and then exit 22:02:13 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:02:39 I believe it may be because when the entrance function ends, the program is terminated 22:03:05 shall I add some stin blocking function at the end? 22:03:11 *stdin 22:04:11 I'm not really experienced in threading in Common Lisp, I'm also a beginner. But I think something that doesn't allow the main function to exit, such as an infinite loop or a blocking function, could work, indeed 22:05:01 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:56 Denommus: great, io blocking resolved issue 22:06:08 still this is no the most elegant solution 22:06:17 alagabes: now, the explanation 22:06:36 when you were working on your own terminal, you had a REPL working, so the REPL was acting like a IO blocker 22:06:52 hey all, i've *started* putting together a more navigation-focused cl ref. the scaffolding is mostly there, if anyonw wants to help fill in stuff :) http://lamberta.github.io/minispec/ 22:07:31 Denommus: yes, this makes sense 22:07:32 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:07:34 when you pass --eval to SBCL (or runs it through a non-interative environment), you won't have a REPL, so as soon as it stops loading (or evaluating) your file, it will end 22:08:25 italic: this really looks neat 22:08:46 I'm getting ready for Google Code Jam 22:09:57 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:10 alagabes: thanks. still a lot of work to do, but getting there 22:10:54 italic: pretty awesome 22:11:03 italic: i really appricate the effort, I'd really love to help but since I'm a newbie and non-native english I won't useful 22:12:33 italic: awesome. I recommend you to post it on reddit and on comp.lang.lisp :) 22:12:40 you should update left nav to be collapsible 22:12:42 italic: Nice. One recommendation out of the top of my head: Add OpenSearch to the site 22:12:52 italic: what are you using as engine? 22:13:28 one think I dream of doing is using purely git and Org Mode as a wiki engine 22:13:57 Denommus: I have a real basic setup for that here 22:14:01 no engine really. sections are in markdown, converted with pandoc. then quite a but of js 22:14:15 well, I called it blog rather than wiki, but same ideal 22:14:17 https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-blog 22:14:40 You edit your project in org mode, save the files as pretty bare org mode docs, then run the CL file to parse the files and convert to expanded html 22:14:43 here's teh repo: https://github.com/lamberta/minispec 22:14:55 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:37 I was thinking of having el-node or something like it running on the server, so when you push your modifications to the repository, el-node would get it by itself and process it 22:16:00 -!- jacekpod [~jacek@94-192-215-222.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:02 this is the little guide on mine, I chose to go with static files for portability (and I already had a cms written in perl that invokes vi on the fly for my db driven one) 22:16:05 http://ahungry.com/blog/2013-04-01-blogging-with-org-mode.html 22:16:31 on my setup I just git commit and then git push and my sever will show the blog entry at that point 22:16:32 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:39 git has everything that a database engine for wikis needs (logs, conflict resolution, well... everything). So why not? 22:16:51 good thinking 22:16:51 jacekpod [~jacek@94-192-215-222.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:17:18 ahungry: my setup for blog is org2blog with wordpress. I'm thinking about abandoning it, though 22:17:41 -!- jacekpod [~jacek@94-192-215-222.zone6.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 22:17:47 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:18:00 I have too many problems with wordpress 22:18:27 git might be problematic if you have huge archives to fetch information about though, unless there's auto-repository splitting/balancing from time to time (git is bad at huge trees) 22:19:28 depending on volume it might never be a problem 22:19:43 phadthai: I only suggest git because it is my main dvcs, but it could be any dvcs 22:20:14 not a centralized vcs, because it would provide more problems than solutions. Not that we really need branches or anything similar 22:21:24 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:01 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:22:27 how do you get rid of a global special ? 22:22:52 makunbound probably? 22:23:44 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:24:04 ah found it, yes (makunbound 'y) and then (unintern 'y) 22:24:10 also see unexport/unintern for the package symbol manipulation 22:24:15 ok yes 22:27:12 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-218-166.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:52 I want to load some data in at compile time from a directory relative to my .asd file; is this doable? 22:27:54 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:28:11 *compile-file-pathname*? 22:28:17 duh 22:28:48 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:30:03 Bike_: I also didn't know about that variable. Great 22:30:11 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 22:30:13 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-255-116.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:56 -!- sellout- [~Adium@65.101.242.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:56 -!- xani [~user@178.183.142.79.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:04 knob [~knob@66-50-7-81.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:55 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:57 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:36:38 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:37:39 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.116] has joined #lisp 22:39:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-143.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:38 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:49 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:16 Forgetaboutit [~sammy@p4FFA6DB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:12 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:41:16 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.192.21] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 22:41:39 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:51 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.192.21] has joined #lisp 22:45:31 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.116] has left #lisp 22:49:49 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:17 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:20 -!- zophy` [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-awbelqgizjgdnabc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:22 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 22:52:42 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 22:56:15 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 22:58:48 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:24 -!- elia [~elia@2-238-29-218.ip242.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:00:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:15 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.198.9.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:18 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:33 -!- dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:41 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:43 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:11 eee [~user@c50-26-74-15.amrlcmtk01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:01 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 23:11:13 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:07 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:13:16 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:38 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.116] has joined #lisp 23:16:59 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:19:12 Anyone used zeromq? I'm trying to decide between that and plain usocket 23:21:09 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-37-214.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:21:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:24:04 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:24:49 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-139.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:25:19 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-131-254.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:31 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.116] has left #lisp 23:26:40 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:27:25 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:00 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.43.116] has joined #lisp 23:29:28 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:16 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-142-161-102.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:03 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-161-159.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:35:54 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:01 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-146-69.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 23:44:50 is there a format escape char designed for users? where you can maybe set a special variable and it does your thing. i know you can call functions. 23:46:07 ? 23:49:10 wbooze: i am asking basically if there is a special format escape char (like ~a) that could call my function 23:49:31 don't think so 23:50:39 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011f7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:09 Bike: thanks 23:51:14 I'm not sure if that's what you want, but you could use apply with format for user strings to be able to provide format control directives 23:51:43 although those would remain the same, not custom directives, other than when using custom functions as you found out 23:51:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:37 -!- bitonic [~user@151.225.50.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:52:53 clhs ~/ 23:52:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ced.htm 23:54:10 adeht: that is function call, it is too long for what i am trying but on the other hand it is clear 23:54:34 nalaginrut [~nalaginru@183.13.182.28] has joined #lisp 23:55:09 -!- Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:26 -!- zickzackv [~faot@g226060186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:56:37 i.e. http://paste.lisp.org/display/136689 23:57:28 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-6-16.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-218-166.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:59:17 of course as necessary you could also write your own substitution function and use it, with stream functions it should be trivial 23:59:19 nan_: ~/ 23:59:41 nan_: so you know there's ~/ and you're asking for ~/ ???