00:05:09 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:05:56 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-246-130-4.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:25 There's no value like there is a NIL value in Common Lisp - correct? 00:06:38 not definedly 00:07:06 What do you mean by definedly? 00:07:31 well, an implementation might have an internal value denoting undefinedness, like closette does 00:08:19 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 00:08:19 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 00:08:19 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 00:08:49 Ok, that's where I learned about unbound but it is looking like it would be better for me to treat the C++ NULL value as unbound - which is not something I can pass to functions or return from functions so it wouldn't be like a regular value. 00:11:19 Agh, unfortunately ECL has a (SL-BOUNDP xxx) function that tests if xxx has the ECL_UNBOUND value - that prevents me from using NULL. 00:14:49 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:15:10 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:19:35 -!- `arrdem [~user@resnet-45-187.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:28 arrdem [~user@resnet-45-187.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 00:27:14 michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-64-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:21 -!- michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-64-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:29:29 michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-64-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has joined #lisp 00:30:44 -!- michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-64-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:32:33 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@92.114.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:58 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 00:34:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:46 honkfestival 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[~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:30:37 Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #lisp 05:30:56 paredit 23 is out: http://mumble.net/~campbell/emacs/paredit-23.el (many changes from 22, but no substantial changes from the beta that had been sitting around for a year or two) 05:33:40 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:00 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 05:38:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:01 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.86] has joined #lisp 05:41:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:42:26 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:35 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:46:12 from 22 to 23 the diff looks like a lot of bug fixes, plus an interesting new feature "paredit-convolute-sexp" which I don't completely understand 05:46:25 I like the name. 05:48:07 Is there a still a separate channel for common-lisp.net config issues? 05:48:12 *easye* can't remember the name. 05:48:33 #common-lisp.net, looks like 05:48:39 joekarma, actually, paredit-convolute-sexp has been there for a while, but it only now has a key bound to it: M-?, to express the confusing nature of the operation. 05:48:40 Thanks. 05:49:16 It takes several nested S-expressions and moves the inner ones to enclose the outer ones. 05:49:44 So if you have a LABELS inside a LET but you want the LET inside the LABELS instead, M-? will do the job for you. 05:50:05 Riastradh: ah, I see, cheers 05:50:32 (let ((x 5)) (labels ((f () (foonicate))) |(body))) ==M-?==> (labels ((f () (foonicate))) |(let ((x 5)) (body))) 05:51:55 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:01 If you want newer and fancier features, under consideration for inclusion in paredit 24 (whenever that might happen), browse . 05:52:38 (Well, `newer'...most of it has been sitting there for ages.) 05:53:11 -!- rrradical [~rrradical@209-6-197-118.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:49 BobDole [~na@pool-72-89-198-202.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:43 How do you call this: (Defun HUH2 (L) (first L)) ? I try (HUH2 (2 3 54)) but it gives me an error 05:55:11 BobDole: (huh2 '(2 3 54)) or (huh2 (list 2 3 54)) 05:55:18 Riastradh: I like your taste in naming. 05:55:31 Bike: ah.. forgot about that... thank you 05:55:46 *Riastradh* bows. 06:00:53 paredit-cl-octothorpe.el looks like something I've been looking for for a while 06:01:11 yep, it's very helpful (: 06:03:46 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 06:03:53 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:04:11 -!- BobDole [~na@pool-72-89-198-202.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: -1] 06:06:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.218.1.75] has joined #lisp 06:06:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.218.1.75] has quit [Changing host] 06:06:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:07:55 Let me know by email if you have any questions; I'm off to bed now. 06:08:09 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 06:08:36 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20:03 Riastrad1 [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has joined #lisp 06:20:04 teggi [~teggi@123.21.161.34] has joined #lisp 06:20:06 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:22:27 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [] 06:23:49 -!- v [~v@96.44.165.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:26:35 joekarma_ [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:46 -!- leoncamel2 [~leoncamel@124.126.171.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:28:54 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:54 -!- joekarma_ is now known as joekarma 06:29:47 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host144.186-125-147.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:32:22 antifuchs: paredit-cl-octothorpe should prevent a space from being automatically inserted between #P and "/foo", correct? i.e. #P"foo" 06:32:54 -!- Riastrad1 is now known as Riastradh 06:34:06 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:35:13 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:35:31 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 06:35:32 odd that I loaded the file in my .emacs but it doesn't seem to be changing anything.... 06:38:00 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.161.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:24 v [~v@199.68.198.120] has joined #lisp 06:41:50 leoncamel2 [~leoncamel@124.126.171.114] has joined #lisp 06:42:39 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fa87.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 06:45:16 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:45:22 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:50 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:34 protist [~protist@248.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 07:02:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:21:24 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 07:28:41 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:29:28 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:35:02 bitonic [~user@176.27.234.82] has joined #lisp 07:35:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:35:46 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:36:52 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:39:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:40:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-253-208.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bored and tired] 07:41:37 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.237.156] has left #lisp 07:43:56 [lisppaste@alpha-cl-net ~]$ screen -bash: screen: command not found 07:43:56 joy 07:46:55 there's tmux, never used it, though 07:49:13 and openssl isn't installed 07:51:46 what kind of a migration is that? 07:52:59 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:53:05 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@183.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:53:52 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:58:18 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:58:26 librt.so isn't present, can't run bots 07:58:30 *stassats* looks at drewc 08:00:08 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:03:22 specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-37-51.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 08:03:23 minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-37-51.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 08:03:30 how can i test if a pathname is a subpath of another pathname? 08:03:38 clhs match-pathname 08:03:39 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for match-pathname. 08:03:43 clhs match-pathname-p 08:03:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for match-pathname-p. 08:03:54 clhs pathname-match-p 08:03:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_pn_mat.htm 08:04:20 maybe also 08:04:25 clhs enough-pathname 08:04:25 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for enough-pathname. 08:04:31 erm 08:04:35 clhs e-n 08:04:36 enough-namestring: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 08:04:40 right. 08:05:40 it's an hour of mixing pathname names 08:11:53 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:12:24 soomthing 08:12:40 something's wrong with c-l.net's mail. known issue? 08:12:55 yes 08:13:04 cool 08:13:24 and everything is wrong with cl.net 08:13:41 not everything! :) 08:14:41 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:19 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-130-5-45.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:19:20 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:30 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:48 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:32:16 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:48 -!- Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:17 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:32 rukubites [~user@d122-111-11-20.meb804.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:37:02 Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has joined #lisp 08:37:03 -!- Zhivago [~lys@1.234.65.131] has quit [Changing host] 08:37:03 Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has joined #lisp 08:37:03 stassats, luis: my understanding that Drew just turned off cl-net while moving it and bringing it back up bit by bit. 08:37:10 are there any timelines available? 08:37:16 I think this is soooo wrong. 08:37:17 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:07 (...) 08:38:27 H4ns? 08:38:34 silence? 08:38:56 ehu: I see. The mailing lists were not up (but mail was) a couple of hours ago, then. 08:39:06 ehu: i'm glad i stepped down from being a cl.net admin, but maybe it would not have happened this way if i had still a say in it :/ 08:39:51 actually, I had a run-in with Drew about his plans before. 08:40:03 so, I stepped back on cl-net as well, letting him handle things. 08:40:10 I wasn't happy with the things he said. 08:40:17 neither was i 08:40:34 later he convinced me that his intentions were aligned with mine and my worries were soothed. 08:40:37 anyway. it is not that one needs to use common-lisp.net 08:40:39 that's how hitler got to power too! 08:41:02 I did however, offer him to take over hosting cl-net 08:41:09 and the cl-net related domains. 08:41:18 but he doesn't want to let go. 08:41:24 Are there any best practice examples for open source lisp libraries? I have a library I am planning on putting up - probably on github. 08:41:28 "cl-net made me who I am, I am cl-net" 08:41:33 rukubites: github is good 08:41:40 "and anybody who doesn't like it should leave" 08:41:41 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d8156af.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:11 Are there any good README.md examples for lisp or otherwise? A style guide would be nice. I have the licencing all done. 08:42:28 *style example 08:42:29 ehu: so now he does it alone, and badly. 08:42:34 I didn't want to make a big deal out of that at the time, but I don't think it's a good way to handle a community site. 08:42:40 rukubites: just write whatever you want 08:42:44 common-lisp.net looks really.. unprofessional. 08:43:02 rukubites: why do you say that? 08:43:05 stassats: No I think I'd rather make something that looks like I care about the library. 08:43:19 I'll offer him once again, but publicly this time. 08:43:29 rukubites: write something that looks like you care about your users instead :) 08:43:31 rukubites: so, that's what you want, then write like you care 08:43:49 ehu: The front page isn't finished. The blog site hosts 'eHow' links on getting rid of stomach fat. 08:43:56 i think github also allows for html pages, better write documentation there 08:44:19 stassats: Yeah, I do use cl-api for some other projects. 08:44:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:44:36 and README.md a short introduction on what it does, how to run it quickly 08:45:32 stassats: Yes that is the plan. But I don't like re-inventing the wheel, so I thought I'd check if anyone had any 'best practices' examples they know of. 08:45:53 you're over-thinking it 08:46:18 stassats: I think I'm just 'thinking' it. :-) 08:46:23 sadly, everyone has their own best practice in the common lisp world 08:46:37 well, it is not so sad, it is just that there is not the one way or place 08:47:13 H4ns: Yes, I read with amusement the cl-documentation review which had 51 non-lisp documentation projects and 18 lisp ones! 08:50:32 https://sites.google.com/site/sabraonthehill/lisp-document-generation-apps this one 08:50:44 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:56:39 rukubites, you just mentioned cl-api, and I've just discovered that html page is f...ed! 08:56:47 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:22 I don't know why, but I think I'll have to fix it somehow 08:57:33 Which html page? 08:57:33 that's just cl.net migration 08:57:58 tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:58:12 clonsigna too 08:58:27 stass what do I have to do ? 08:59:04 I regret the lack of time :( to follow all these things ! 08:59:06 kiuma: lie back and think of england 09:00:21 -!- sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:00:39 stassats, do you mean it's just temporary ? 09:01:38 no idea 09:07:29 (float-precision 1l0) --> 64 ... I "associate" float-precision to floating-point precision (maybe I'm wrong) so the floating-point precision is equal to the "significand precision". But the coefficient precision for a double-precison floating-point number isn't lesser than 64? thx. 09:08:06 stassats, ahh I think cl.net is lacking ssi infact I have that seems to be ignored 09:08:50 ASau [~user@46.115.75.93] has joined #lisp 09:09:39 *sigh* cl-api didn't even work. No sb-introspect for some weird reason. 09:10:27 sbcl 1.1.6. 09:10:37 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:11:32 rukubites, you have to be patient I'll be less oberated in the next few days. but you can eventually send me a patch if you have one 09:11:52 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:24 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:03 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-147-55-83.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:21 kiuma, actually it is really weird it comes up with that issue. sb-introspect is there in my sbcl using SLIME, but it wasn't when I ran sbcl --script. 09:13:40 slime loads sb-introspect 09:15:18 Okay, it worked when I did a manual (require 'sb-introspect). 09:15:40 cl-api should depend on it 09:15:42 rukubites, anyway why are you using sbcl 1.1.6 ? 09:15:53 kiuma: what should rukubites be using? 09:16:23 stassats, on planet.lisp there is written not to use it without patch 09:16:47 that's not what's written there 09:17:10 I downloaded the latest one and built it. Am I meant to check everywhere? 09:17:29 Note the same script works okay on 1.1.2, so it is a regression. 09:17:42 it isn't 09:17:48 "don't use SBCL 1.1.6 if your code or anything it depends on does svref on a symbol-macro." am I missing something ? 09:18:14 kiuma: yes, you are missing all the words after 6 09:19:05 Am I supposed to check planet lisp before downloading and compiling sbcl?? 09:19:25 rukubites: what are you complaining about? 09:19:40 kiuma telling me I shouldn't be using 1.1.6. 09:19:55 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7579b2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:03 don't mind that 09:20:31 1.1.6 will work until it doesn't, there's no silent corruption or anything 09:20:32 Anyway, the (require 'sb-introspect) is needed in 1.1.6, but not 1.1.2. Not sure about 1.1.5. 09:20:51 Well I'm glad the production machines are still 1.1.2 then.... O___O 09:21:13 rukubites: (require 'sb-introspect) is needed in 1.1.2 too 09:21:16 if you use it 09:21:27 Shouldn't there be something about that on the http://www.sbcl.org/news.html#1.1.6 09:21:58 stassats: Well I tested near-identical scripts with sbcl and it worked fine on 1.1.2. *shrug* 09:22:18 Anyway, that is probably a bug in cl-api that it doesn't do the necessary require. 09:22:25 nothing changed, so your setup was not identical 09:22:44 if you want to stay up to date, follow sbcl-announce@ 09:22:45 stassats, so no I'm not missing anything. I don't know what depends on svref... but just in case :) 09:23:06 kiuma: sbcl will show you a big red error 09:23:08 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 09:23:11 at compile-time 09:23:22 ah, ok 09:23:29 stassats: I should get around to subbing to sbcl-announce. 09:23:29 so, 1.1.6 is ok to use, unless you depend on lparallel 09:23:55 Oh, error at compile time is okay for me then. 09:24:01 Fail fast is good. :-) 09:24:26 sb-devel@ is also good, if you don't mind some development exchanges 09:24:28 sbcl-devel 09:27:08 Whitesquall [~notwhites@95.107.118.62] has joined #lisp 09:28:03 Hmmm, documenting classes didn't work. 09:29:30 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@95.107.118.62] has quit [Client Quit] 09:29:31 And macros are repeated as both functions and macros in the documentation. 09:30:32 http://trac.common-lisp.net/cl-api/wiki/TracBrowser - 404. Why yes, github is better! 09:30:33 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 09:30:56 that's just how cl.net does migrations 09:31:42 Is the whole site migrating? 09:31:47 yes 09:31:49 stassats: well, I don't agree. 09:31:54 shortcutmedia [~shortcutm@95.111.2.27] has joined #lisp 09:32:01 Why not say on the front page: "WE ARE MIGRATING! THINGS AREN'T WORKING! 09:32:13 stassats: when I did the migration 2 years ago, there were outages, but they were not intended. 09:32:17 this one is intended. 09:34:15 sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 09:38:20 is there any database for sbcl that allows me to pretend the database is a list....and put random cons-y things in it? 09:38:33 minion: cl-store? 09:38:34 cl-store: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/cl-store 09:38:35 i would prefer to not use CLOS or whatever 09:38:47 MAKE-HASHTABLE? 09:38:58 rukubites: that's not really persistent 09:39:03 rukubites: but i want to tie it to a file 09:39:08 stassats: thank you :) 09:39:14 montezuma is a document store. 09:39:32 for some set of consy things: WRITE and READ do a good job 09:39:35 I have used postmodern to store printed lists, and then done read. 09:39:55 I wrote a "safe-read" which lets *read-eval* correctly, though. 09:40:56 rukubites: it still isn't safe 09:40:59 stassats: i would like it to store them in a smart structure 09:42:31 if i just write and read....then it would have some pretty bad performance, no? 09:42:54 Get code working, then fix performance. 09:43:02 IMO 09:43:11 protist: just use cl-store 09:43:17 rukubites: ide rather not write a massive kludge while learning hehe 09:43:21 stassats: kk :) 09:44:02 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:39 stassats`: Good Is there a way to make a read non-eval-able? And how do you actually break things if *read-eval* is nil? 09:45:19 I normally sanitise things anyway, and turn off *read-eval* for extra precaution. 09:46:36 Why in GNU CLISP 1.49 I can see the round-off error when I do (/ 1l0 3l0) and in SBCL 1.1.6.3-70f323d this is not possible? 09:47:22 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 09:47:52 -!- bitonic [~user@176.27.234.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:47:52 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:48:11 rukubites: you might want to disable some read macros, as well 09:49:27 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-183-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 09:49:59 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:51:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:51:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:51:43 what's the stable version of cmucl ? 09:52:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:53:44 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:54:28 you're not going to get any cmucl support here 09:54:33 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 09:55:47 any reason you're trying to use it? 09:56:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:58:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:59:00 not really.... 10:08:00 ehu_ [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has joined #lisp 10:09:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:10:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:13:07 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:14:56 -!- ehu_ [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:23:53 ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has joined #lisp 10:29:12 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:32:33 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-84-63.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:32:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:36 -!- misv [~misv@c-0373e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:34:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:35:20 davazp [~user@92.251.169.84.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 10:36:40 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-101-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:37:47 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:42:46 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:59 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 10:43:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:45:07 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:47:11 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 10:48:52 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-951ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:52:20 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-246.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:55:03 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:55:03 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 10:56:29 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 10:58:16 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-4d0112b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:19 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:00:37 ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has joined #lisp 11:00:43 guys, do you know a nice paper or website listing programming language features? I'm thinking of stuff like memory (global state); staged computing, IOW the ability to call a function of quoted code (macro); first class functions; etc... 11:01:16 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75fa87.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:42 this one seems to be the best I could find, but not really nice enough (or I just need to dig more): http://www.info.ucl.ac.be/~pvr/paradigms 11:02:49 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has quit [Client Quit] 11:03:05 ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has joined #lisp 11:03:08 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:35 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:07:10 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:27 attila_lendvai: take a look at: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~jcr/tpl.html 11:09:10 -!- rukubites [~user@d122-111-11-20.meb804.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09:50 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:10:20 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 11:14:10 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:15:27 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-39-187.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:16:30 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:18:45 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:45 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:20:57 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:10 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 11:21:59 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:19 pnpuff: thanks! looking 11:24:08 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 11:24:21 attila_lendvai: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/Web/Groups/pop/pop.html 11:25:02 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:11 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:47 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:27 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 11:35:11 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 11:39:00 setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.119] has joined #lisp 11:41:21 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:47:22 ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has joined #lisp 11:47:25 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:57 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:49:53 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.169.84.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:17 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-246.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:56 getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@49.176.69.58] has joined #lisp 11:54:11 -!- getoffmalawn [~getoffmal@49.176.69.58] has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:03 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 11:57:06 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:58:05 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:58:30 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 11:59:30 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:47 ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has joined #lisp 12:03:17 -!- sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:04:21 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:12 tekai [~tekai@g224070089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:05 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-117.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:09:12 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:08 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-951ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 12:13:43 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:14:18 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:36 davazp [~user@92.251.169.84.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 12:19:25 -!- hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:23:23 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 12:25:18 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:27:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:29:45 what 12:30:43 Thra11 [~thrall@92.114.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:33:04 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:34:47 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:36:25 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 12:38:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:38:40 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-113-13.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:40:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:41:58 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.29] has joined #lisp 12:42:21 -!- lukas_ is now known as Guest98016 12:43:25 -!- v [~v@199.68.198.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:47:48 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 12:49:57 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.169.84.threembb.ie] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:53:23 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-113-13.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:53:33 teggi [~teggi@123.21.161.34] has joined #lisp 12:53:57 danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:26 drmeister: you can (defun sl-boundp (x) (or (c++-null-pointer-p x) (eq ECL_UNBOUND x))) 12:54:42 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:31 v [~v@199.68.198.120] has joined #lisp 13:00:52 minion: here? 13:00:52 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``here''. 13:00:56 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 13:01:13 minion: memo for pnpuff: because clisp has real long-float, while in sbcl, long-float == double-float. 13:01:14 Remembered. I'll tell pnpuff when he/she/it next speaks. 13:01:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:39 -!- jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:04:33 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-113-13.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:06:41 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:07:40 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:28 AeroNotix [~xeno@abot241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:15:54 -!- v [~v@199.68.198.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:17:02 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:17:42 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:25 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:18:32 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:32 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:45 To make popularity contests, you need to have a "people". 13:19:51 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 13:23:28 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:48 -!- leoncamel2 [~leoncamel@124.126.171.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:27:54 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 13:29:32 sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 13:30:58 *Xach* hacks around clnet outage for now 13:33:09 hacks around? how around? 13:33:55 antonv: i normally use "cvs export" to produce candidate tarballs for quicklisp 13:34:14 i'm just tarring up the stuff instead 13:34:29 v [~v@61.173.101.195] has joined #lisp 13:34:33 *Xach* will probably have to do the same for svn 13:34:34 can you login to cl.net? 13:35:10 I don't have a login. 13:35:11 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:51 how do you tar stuff? where is this stuff located? 13:36:16 already checked out on your machine? 13:36:22 antonv: On my computer. From previous cvs checkouts. 13:36:30 i see 13:36:34 phaer [~user@chello080108051063.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:36:55 -!- phaer [~user@chello080108051063.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:24 k0001 [~k0001@host144.186-125-147.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:37:30 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-113-13.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:37:47 hmm, maybe I just have to change all my urls. 13:41:36 this works...but is there something i have done oddly or with bad style? : https://ideone.com/V2Qq3c 13:42:38 protist: It's better to use macrolet than mapcar/eval. 13:42:59 can you demonstrate please? 13:43:07 and having macros named after keywords is also not a good idea. 13:43:27 is maketage a keyword? 13:43:32 maketag* 13:43:44 Sorry, defuns named by keywords. 13:44:11 It's not bad if it's not something that ever makes it into source files that others will use, but bad otherwise. 13:44:24 hmmm 13:44:53 can you demonstrate the macrolet? 13:45:26 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:45:26 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 13:45:26 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 13:45:41 and i like the idea of using let* to make gensyms....instead of two nested lets 13:46:06 The gensyms get shadowed. 13:46:27 :/ 13:46:46 protist: There is a lot of confusion in evidence in that small space. I'm afraid I don't have time to discuss it. 13:46:59 by the time it gets to the redefinition of the things...i would have thought they were gensyms? 13:47:07 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Client Quit] 13:47:14 that is fine, thank you 13:48:19 protist: "gensym" is a function that returns a value. it isn't exactly a property of a variable. 13:48:44 Xach: hmmm...i will go read on it 13:48:50 protist: so you bind it to one value (the result of gensym) and then to another value (the result of format nil). 13:48:59 There's really no point... 13:50:00 protist: it might be helpful if you can write the source code you want to produce by hand. 13:50:21 I don't think you can do what you're trying to do in the way you're trying to do it. 13:50:56 i am somewhat unsure of what i am trying to do 13:51:22 cl-who seems to only work as expected part of the time for me 13:51:38 i know i am doing soemthing wrong...but i thought this would be a good way to practice, as well 13:51:51 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:52:27 protist: first of all you don't need eval 13:52:47 antonv: show me :) 13:53:34 protist: (lambda (x) (eval `(maketag ,(car x) ,(cadr x)))) == (lambda (x) (maketag (car x) (cadr x))) 13:53:59 antonv: maketag is a macro 13:54:12 antonv: it would get confused with those arguments 13:54:23 protist: yes, compier expands it for you 13:54:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:25 i think i tried it without eval...and it delayed evaluation of (car x) and got confused 13:55:29 i'll try again, though 13:56:43 protist: or maybe I don't understand what you want. You want to produce list with entries like ((maketag :html "html") (maketag :head "head") ...) 13:56:49 yeah the macro keeps (car x) from evaluating 13:56:57 yeah :D 13:57:47 protist: try by smaller pieces and test how each piece work 13:57:52 will i am only running the mapcar for the side effect 13:58:13 antonv: the code works as intended....i just wanted tips to make it cleaner or more idiomatic 13:58:31 antonv: i am fairly new to Lisp...and so i am sure there i are things i can learn from 13:58:38 abeaumont [~abeaumont@183.Red-79-157-215.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:39 is there some sort of built in macro to avoid having to eval soemthing that is backquoted? 13:59:51 like something that expands to that? 14:01:48 i could make one...but i figure there is something i am missing 14:04:32 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:05:05 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:45 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-48-160.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:29 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@92.114.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 14:14:22 Thra11 [~thrall@92.114.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:36 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:15:57 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:16:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:16:33 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:18:31 Does anyone know when exactly (makunbound '*c*) (symbol-value '*c*) triggers a condition? Is it the reading of the unbound symbol-value or after that? 14:19:05 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:21 I'm asking because I'm modifying how I represent UNBOUND (I've switched to tagged pointers and I have a special tagged pointer value to represent UNBOUND). 14:22:15 isn't *c* already read when symbol-value is called ? 14:22:24 or rather even before that ? 14:22:33 drmeister: it's at run-time: when you call symbol-value. 14:23:13 Reading may be done even before the symbol is unbound! (progn (makunbound '*c*) '*c*) --> *c* 14:23:13 so it's referreing to a value-cell which isn't existent ? 14:23:28 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 14:23:44 (makunbound '*c*) '(symbol-value '*c*) --> (symbol-value '*c*) 14:23:48 You can always read a symbol! 14:24:15 and does it get interned automatically when it's read ? 14:24:33 Yes. 14:24:36 It gets interned when it is read. 14:24:38 Unless it's prefixed by #: 14:24:50 (makunbound '*a*) doesn't unintern it does it? 14:24:58 Nope. 14:24:59 it doesn't 14:25:44 So what I'm doing is (makunbound '*a*) puts my new UNBOUND tagged pointer value into the value cell of *a*. 14:25:48 (setf (get '*a* :key) :value) (makunbound '*a*) (get '*a* :key) --> :value 14:26:02 drmeister: sounds correct. 14:26:20 The problem comes when my compiled code tries to save the value of a dynamic variable that is unbound. 14:26:33 lparallel should now compile on at least sbcl-1.0.40 and later. As ever, I am perplexed that people report issues through irc and blog posts instead of the issue tracker, but that's a general problem not specific to one language or time. 14:26:35 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 14:27:07 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:13 irc is always open, trackers one would have to find the url first! 14:27:21 Perhaps libraries should add a (report-bug) function 14:27:26 s/add/include/ 14:28:34 If I go (defvar *a*) the value of *a* is UNBOUND. 14:28:52 Only if it was before. 14:28:57 Then if I go (let ((*a* 1)) ...) the compiler needs to read the value of *a*, save it and put a new value in it. 14:29:02 (defvar *a*) doesn't change the boundness of the variable. 14:29:15 pjb: Sure - but assume it wasn't bound before. 14:29:19 only specials are allowed to be unbound 14:29:24 drmeister: it doesn't need to read it, it needs to shadow it. Think about multiple threads. 14:29:42 (on the other hand, multiple threads are not considered by the standard, but you may want to support them). 14:29:45 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:30:03 pbj: Right - but the way I shadow it is to read out the value and save it on the stack, put a new value into it and then restore the value from the stack. 14:30:27 drmeister: then your special variables are global, not thread specific. Quite bad: 14:30:33 I'm not supporting multiple threads at this point. 14:30:41 defvar proclaims *a* special.... 14:31:13 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:31:27 Perhaps I should change my code so that I only save/restore it if it was bound to begin with. 14:31:32 (defvar *a*) (make-thread (lambda () (let ((*a* 42)) (loop (sleep 1) (print *a*))))) (make-thead (lambda () (let ((*a* 0)) (sleep 10)))) would print 42? 0{10} 42* 14:32:09 If you don't consider threads, you can indeed, save a "unbound" value. 14:32:11 I'm not supporting multi-threading - I think it's a lot of trouble for very little gain. I think 14:32:20 would it be better if he declaimed it special then ? 14:32:26 The problem is more with undefined global variables: (let ((*zz* 42)) (declare (special *zz*)) ) 14:32:31 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:33:13 Here, there is no global *zz* variable. Now there's always a symbol *zz*, so if you use the symbol-value slot, it still works. 14:33:20 pjb: I handle that (declare (special *zz*)) already. 14:34:14 So in conclusion, yes it works. 14:34:26 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:03 This has been very helpful. What I was doing was the following: If *a* is special (let ((*a* 1))... ) would SAVE *A*, WRITE 1 in *A*, RESTORE *A* whether *A* was bound or unbound. 14:36:58 It works. 14:37:31 Now I'll check if *A* is bound when the LET comes in scope and if it is I'll do the above and if it isn't I won't save it and I'll just MAKUNBOUND when the let scope is exited. 14:38:32 So it becomes independent on the way unboundness is implemented. It's better (but may be slower). 14:38:43 Oh wait, I need to do this at runtime, I won't know at compile time if *A* is bound or not. (sigh). 14:39:33 I still need to save something that says the shadowed state is UNBOUND. 14:39:59 I guess I'll just create a SYMBOL-VALUE-OR-UNBOUND function and use that in this situation. 14:40:23 eheh 14:41:38 Then in this one situation the UNBOUND value won't trigger an exception when its read from a symbol. 14:42:25 is paul graham joking about using vi? http://www.paulgraham.com/pfaq.html ...i thought he mentioned emacs in the beginning of On Lisp 14:42:51 bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has joined #lisp 14:43:20 vi was prolly more leightweight .....so..... 14:43:46 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:52 ellaborate 14:43:55 and emacs requires much config....even if you want to make it as small and fast as vi.....you have to know how todo it etc.... 14:44:49 i use vim...and the only reason i don't use vi is syntax highlighting 14:45:37 protist: nvm use whatever fits you.... 14:46:07 -!- zebbe [~androirc@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:46:34 emacs + evil is something you should really try 14:47:52 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:32 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:48:40 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:48:55 davazp [~user@92.251.169.84.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 14:49:07 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 14:49:38 bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has joined #lisp 14:49:39 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has quit [Client Quit] 14:51:14 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-173-79.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:32 leoncamel2 [~leoncamel@124.126.171.114] has joined #lisp 14:51:50 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:51:56 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 14:52:42 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abot241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 14:56:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:58:22 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:04 ehu_ [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has joined #lisp 15:04:00 -!- pyacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:04:07 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-117.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:33 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-117.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:05:06 -!- ehu_ [~ehu@109.38.143.87] has quit [Client Quit] 15:05:50 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:07:32 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:01 -!- akovalen` [~user@95.72.42.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:14:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:14:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-195.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:19:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@46-126-110-164.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:19:10 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:19:33 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:19:56 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:20 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 15:31:12 ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has joined #lisp 15:31:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:28 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.173.148] has joined #lisp 15:36:38 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 pyacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 15:37:05 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-117.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:21 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:38:26 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d1892.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 15:44:33 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:45:18 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:46:12 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:46:30 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:47:02 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:08 arrdem [~user@resnet-45-187.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:18 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:51:01 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:53:28 i am having difficulties with cl-who 15:53:53 i am attempting to follow the examples by weitz...but i get error messages about the arguments: (with-html-output (*standard-output*) 15:54:05 i think it is saying something is wrong with that 15:54:11 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.169.84.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:54:16 i don't see the error message 15:54:16 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:54:37 stassats`: sec ill bin it 15:55:20 stassats`: http://pastebin.com/yQLrkNRm 15:56:35 where did you get cl-who? 15:57:01 ql:quickload 15:57:04 -!- shortcutmedia [~shortcutm@95.111.2.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:57:25 did you install it before with something else? 15:57:42 i'm not sure : 15:57:46 :/ * 15:57:49 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:34 davazp [~user@92.251.241.252.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 15:58:48 that lambda list doesn't look like cl-who at all 15:59:14 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 15:59:43 hmmm 16:00:58 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 16:01:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:01:16 you're using clisp's with-html-output 16:01:37 -!- Riastradh [~riastradh@fsf/member/riastradh] has left #lisp 16:01:40 i.e., wrong package 16:01:45 it has one?? 16:02:06 how do i use the correct one? 16:02:23 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 16:02:26 (who:with-html-output-to-string ...) is one way 16:02:49 the other way is defining your own package which :USEs :who 16:02:55 ah 16:03:01 thank you! 16:03:50 wow that worked :) 16:03:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:04:11 finally....i wouldn't have figured that out quickly at all haha 16:04:25 been staring at this error for a while 16:04:42 pserver on common-lisp.net is down? Is that part of the server move, perhaps? 16:04:58 No wait; that was LAST month. 16:05:02 cross: yes. no idea when it will come back online. 16:05:08 Bummer. Thanks. 16:06:25 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 16:07:16 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:49 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.160] has joined #lisp 16:11:15 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ragequit] 16:12:19 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:16:26 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has joined #lisp 16:17:23 ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has joined #lisp 16:19:21 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ragequit] 16:20:22 a great opportunity to migrate to github and the like! 16:20:36 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:20:37 Wobat [~quassel@94-226-35-237.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:21:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 Hello, I got a question, are there a lot of business jobs available in Common lisp? 16:21:23 no 16:21:41 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:08 Ok, thanks for the anwser. 16:22:49 GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-42-116.21-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 16:23:19 -!- Wobat [~quassel@94-226-35-237.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 16:23:35 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:23:56 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 16:25:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:26:37 it takes about 5 seconds to load 'linedit every time i start up sbcl....i have a feeling i have set something up badly 16:27:15 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:40 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:29:37 protist: save an image with linedit built in? 16:29:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:28 ehu: hmmm 16:31:56 normanrichards [~normanric@AUSTTXHODS0AE13.mcleodusa.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:45 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:06 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@AUSTTXHODS0AE13.mcleodusa.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:46 Would be nice writea day someting "Numerical Recipes in CL" 16:34:46 pnpuff, memo from pjb: because clisp has real long-float, while in sbcl, long-float == double-float. 16:35:05 ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has joined #lisp 16:35:11 thx pjb 16:36:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7579b2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:37:48 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 16:38:23 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:37 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:14 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:32 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:15 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:08 -!- GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-42-116.21-151.libero.it] has quit [Quit: GuglielmoS] 16:44:22 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:13 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.241.252.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:17 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:47:29 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-119-16.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:47:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:37 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:48:00 ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has joined #lisp 16:48:27 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:49:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:49:44 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.218.10] has joined #lisp 16:49:44 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 16:49:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.218.10] has quit [Changing host] 16:49:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:50:10 solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 16:51:08 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:53 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.173.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:55:59 drichards [~user@c-98-232-26-203.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:25 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:57:32 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:57:44 Wobat [~quassel@94-226-35-237.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:57:48 Hello again 16:58:05 -!- Wobat [~quassel@94-226-35-237.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 16:58:56 I take it common-lisp.net mailing lists are also down indefinitely? 16:59:06 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 16:59:07 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 16:59:07 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 16:59:10 yes 16:59:27 That sucks. 16:59:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:39 services should be spread over several servers 17:00:12 -!- sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has quit [Client Quit] 17:00:18 pjb: how would that help against a purposeful shutdown? 17:00:37 purposeful shutdown could be done one server at a time. 17:00:51 For starters, it wouldn't take down EVERY service at once. 17:00:55 well, it could be done the whole server at a time too 17:02:19 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:02:44 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:03:14 Just so I'm clear, is this purposeful shutdown a permanent purposeful shutdown, or is it a transition of some kind that has an open-ended schedule for return to service? 17:03:31 It's a migration. 17:03:36 Okay, thanks. 17:03:37 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 17:04:47 it looks like a bare minimal install 17:10:01 Tuxedo [~tuxedo@bas3-cooksville17-845437443.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:16:44 akovalenko [~user@77.51.63.76] has joined #lisp 17:16:46 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-253-208.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:59 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:17:09 cross: exactly. 17:17:31 cross: during last migration, I ripped everything apart so that services could be migrated independently. 17:17:42 cross: it seems that option hasn't been chosen. 17:18:16 cross: drew said to me (in gTalk): Yes, certain things will be down for a while. About two months ago I asked for some attention and donations to cover the migration sans downtime. Since nobody seems to care and last month cost me $1500 , well, there will be some downtime because I cannot afford to do it again. 17:18:28 however, I didn't see any requests for donations. 17:18:31 did you? 17:19:15 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:20:11 cross: before this happened, i already offered drew to take over the hosting if he couldn't make the commitment anymore. he opted not to take that route. 17:20:25 I've offered it to him once more. 17:22:42 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-10-198.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:23:09 ehu: I did not see any such requests,though something seemingly related is there now. 17:23:35 that's not a serious cry-out, is it? 17:23:59 doesn't appear to be.... 17:26:25 ok. then we agree. 17:26:33 :-) 17:26:49 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:28:11 what's up with the contributions page? 17:28:16 are those Lisp contributions? 17:28:23 or cl-net contributions? 17:28:36 please let Ohloh handle CL contibutions! 17:28:45 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 17:29:09 they are supposed to be contributions to common-lisp.net, and they are handled by Common Lisp Foundation. 17:29:11 if it's cl-net, (oh, it is) then why is my name not in the 2008-2012 block? 17:29:14 who is Ohloh? 17:29:42 https://www.ohloh.net/languages/lisp 17:29:48 gendl: ^^^ 17:29:52 as far as I understand, CLF just in the past few days processed the first quarter's donations to common-lisp.net. 17:30:30 so I really don't understand what is going on with the services right now. Perhaps there is no connection and this is some kind of weekend maintenance. 17:30:45 gendl: well, my point is that in 2010/2011, I did the full cl-net migration to the back-then new service. 17:30:52 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:31:01 but it is rather strange, especially since it is relatively well known that Xach was planning a quicklisp release this weekend. 17:31:03 gendl: no, it's really away for some time to come. 17:31:18 gendl: read backscroll (drew's remark to me) 17:31:51 gendl: drew said to me (in gTalk): Yes, certain things will be down for a while. About two months ago I asked for some attention and donations to cover the migration sans downtime. Since nobody seems to care and last month cost me $1500 , well, there will be some downtime because I cannot afford to do it again. 17:32:16 $1500 sounds like an awful lot..... 17:32:28 sure. that's not the cost to host cl-net. 17:32:32 where does taht money go in the brakdown? 17:32:35 er, breakdown. 17:32:43 that's the cost of the underlying server. 17:32:55 which was cleared out for all but cl-net. 17:33:06 hmm.... 17:33:33 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-061-181.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:38 The quoted text would seem to imply that's a monthly cost. But surely it is not. 17:33:46 (If it's the cost for the underlying server.) 17:34:02 but then everything was due to bad planning, due to lack of hands to help, .. no idea what, but the VM itself doesn't cost 1500 17:34:21 one would certainly hope not! 17:34:43 in the past Drew estimated a cost of 75 each month. 17:34:54 That seems a lot more reasonable. 17:34:56 in today's hosting world I estimate it to be a fraction. 17:35:07 so, that's why I don't mind taking over. 17:36:01 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-246.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:37:52 ehu: what is your downtime estimate? 17:41:01 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 17:41:44 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-061-181.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:41:48 Henesy [~h3n3sy@adsl-76-253-184-197.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:52 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 17:42:11 prxq_: no idea at all. 17:42:31 alpha.common-lisp.net is up. 17:43:15 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:31 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 17:46:12 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 17:46:23 prxq_: what does that mean? 17:46:37 are we looking at the wrong server? 17:47:03 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 17:47:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 17:47:04 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:47:46 ehu: iirc that was supposed to be the new server. 17:47:51 I think it depends on what one's definition of "up" is. There are (multiple, I think) servers responding to HTTP. 17:47:52 the alpha one. 17:47:54 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:47:55 oh. the server is there. 17:47:57 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:00 it's just not installed. 17:48:22 i wonder how that 1500 figure came together 17:48:31 But some of the essential services, like the CVS pserver or mailman to run the mailing lists, etc, are not. 17:48:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:51:12 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.119] has joined #lisp 17:51:31 - 17:52:01 cross: *all* of the essential services. 17:52:16 normal mail forwarrding isn't there either. 17:54:22 github issues are not far away from doubling as a mailing list. The terminology is awkward, though. "How do I do X" isn't really an "issue". 17:54:39 Just needs another category and polish. 17:55:14 why (float-digits 1.02d0) == (float-precision 1.02d0) ? 17:57:40 and the same is for any other number type (i.e. s f l) 17:58:22 pnpuff: Because that's they it's supposed to be. Try a much smaller number like least-positive-double-float. 17:58:41 Google and Yahoo groups are mailing lists. :-) Then again, with them, one ties one fortunes to either Google or Yahoo. 17:58:54 Er, s/that's they/that's the way' 18:00:59 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:32 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:02:58 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has left #lisp 18:03:12 rtoym: so float-digits it's a synonym for float-precision? Please explain me better the meaning of "Try a much smaller number like least-positive-double-float" (make an example if it's possible). Thx 18:03:49 pnpuff: They are not synonyms. Look up the definition in the clhs. 18:03:56 floating point numbers are not evenly distributed 18:05:50 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has joined #lisp 18:07:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:07:55 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:38 Oh, (float-precision 0.0) -> 0. 18:09:39 hi. i'm wondering what the correct way is to go about helping fix this SBCL crash on 64-bit windows that affects the executables i make with SBCL.EXE 18:09:41 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:50 i've mentioned it before, hang on i'll find my documentation. 18:10:04 i've tried asking on #sbcl a few times but it's quiet 18:10:46 rtoym: I have (float-precision 0.0d0) --> 0 18:11:13 here is the summary http://pastebin.com/t8Z6W8HK 18:12:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-253-208.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:13:03 and strangely (float-precision 0.0000000000000000000000000000001s0) --> 17 18:13:44 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:52 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-61-164.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:15 Hmm, "NST" has stopped working suddenly. I wonder if it's because of SBCL changes. 18:15:26 rtoym: but (= 0 0.0000000000000000000000000000001s0) --> nil 18:17:26 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 18:25:36 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:58 *Xach* is prepared to blame stassats` 18:27:58 pnpuff: So? Did you read the clhs entry for float-precision? 18:29:24 jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has joined #lisp 18:29:57 decode-float seems ok ,because of I have (* 1.0s0 (* 0.50706s0 (expt 2s0 -102))) == 1.0s-31 18:30:03 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:30:54 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-210-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:55 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-210-217.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:12 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-210-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:15 pnpuff: I have no idea what you're talking about. What exactly is the problem? 18:31:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-61-164.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:31:46 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:31:46 The problem is that pnpuff doesn't understand floating point. 18:32:49 pjb: Well, that would explain many things. 18:32:58 pjb: explain me (decode-float 0.0000000000000000000000000000001s0) ... 18:33:30 What's there to explain? 18:35:05 rtoym: I do not understand the results given by (decode-float 0.0000000000000000000000000000001s0) 18:35:07 pnpuff: you need to read a text on floating point numbers (ieee) first. Before that, there is no point explaining you anything, and after that, most likel no need. 18:35:40 such as What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html 18:37:23 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:38:36 And as a hint, most floating point numbers use base 2, so every floating-point number is represented by f*2^n, where 1 <= |f| < 2, and only a fixed number of bits is used for f. 18:38:44 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:48 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.161.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:23 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 18:39:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.177.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:12 ok, thx very much for the help.. 18:44:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:59 (scale-float 0.0000000000000000000000000000001s0 0) --> 1.e-31 so i have (= 0 =1.e-31) --> nil. Right 18:48:41 s/(= 0 =1.e-31)/(= 0 1.e-31) 18:49:20 but , what is the meaning of "0.0000000000000000000000000000001s0" ? 18:51:41 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host144.186-125-147.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51:41 prxq: what would be a good text to read? 18:52:01 prxq: name what you reccomend...and i'll add it to my queue of book 18:52:03 s 18:52:04 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:52:16 Xach: ah, what, where? 18:53:18 protist: What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating-Point Arithmetic http://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19957-01/806-3568/ncg_goldberg.html 18:53:47 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:54:04 pjb: that is just an appendix 18:54:10 pjb: i figured there is a book 18:54:32 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:54:38 it's a pretty long appendix. 18:55:11 i suppose 18:55:21 but he mentioned a book :) 18:55:38 stassats`: nst does something with (setf documentation) that doesn't work in 1.1.6 (i'm bisecting to find out where it really breaks) 18:55:44 stassats`: i don't know if it's nst's fault or sbcl's 18:55:47 yeah, i see it 18:56:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:06 c2ce03b? 18:56:26 i mean, i see the failure, not the cause 18:57:52 *Xach* should probably not waste time on this and should just manually keep nst 18:58:08 -!- protist [~protist@248.173.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:59:51 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 it's (setf (documentation (macro-function 'foo) 'function) "foo") 19:01:52 wait, that's not my fault 19:02:02 if (macro-function 'foo) returns nil 19:02:08 minion: here? 19:02:10 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``here''. 19:02:28 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:44 minion: memo for protist: take a lokk at : http://port70.net/~nsz/articles/float/lyon_handbook_of_floating-point_arithmetic_2009.pdf 19:02:45 Remembered. I'll tell protist when he/she/it next speaks. 19:02:48 Xach: it's nst 19:03:20 -!- Adeon [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:03:23 stassats`: ok 19:03:40 I can't figure out how to email someone to report the issue :( 19:03:56 well, maybe a bit of my fault that it now signals an error, but nst is bogus in setting documentation of NIL 19:04:01 Adeon [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has joined #lisp 19:04:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:04:32 Xach: you can't find the NST developers ? 19:05:34 I can't find a good email address to use. 19:06:05 Oh, there it is, in the .asd 19:06:05 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-119-16.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 19:06:08 i'll fix documentation failing on undefined functions tomorrow 19:06:29 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:51 though, it was nice for catching this, maybe a warning, at least for symbols in CL? 19:06:52 stassats`: meaning that NST will start working? 19:07:04 Xach: yes 19:07:22 i can't find anywhere in CLHS prohibiting that 19:07:37 or maybe do that at least for NIL, because that's most probably not what people intend 19:07:49 (i mean the warning) 19:10:25 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:42 stassats`: sbcl has atypical behavior for https://gist.github.com/anonymous/5332017 , though it may be permitted. 19:10:59 a poll: would you like to see a style-warning for (setf (documentation symbol 'function) a) where symbols is from CL and does not define a function, macro or a special operator? 19:11:10 I noticed it when deprecating functions -- docstrings were off. 19:11:17 i'm going for the style-warning on NIL anyway 19:11:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:12:01 On the last line, sbcl returns "foo!!" while other lisps return "bar!!" 19:12:10 lmj`: that's intentional 19:12:32 I'm not saying it's a bug, just noticing the difference. 19:12:46 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:47 (documentation 'bar 'function) will return "bar!!" 19:14:58 sbcl used to be that way, but i change it to the current way, because it's the only way that makes sense 19:15:01 changed 19:16:51 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 19:17:49 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 19:18:02 are all the http links on the web to common-lisp.net now broken forever ? 19:19:04 lmj`: did you want to use the old way? 19:19:06 zophy: I sure hope not. 19:19:19 zophy: I'd like everything to return to normal. 19:19:30 (but I'm not in a maintainers position) 19:20:29 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-151-227.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:34 sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:20:46 stassats`: For deprecated names it is convenient to have different docstrings for the same function, but it doesn't matter in any real sense. 19:20:56 It doesn't matter to me now, in any case. 19:21:19 so, you wanted what sbcl currently does? 19:21:44 k0001 [~k0001@host79.186-125-150.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:21:55 I wanted the opposite -- different docstrings for the same function. 19:21:56 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:15 Opposite than the current behavior. 19:22:17 well, sbcl allows that, as you pasted in your example 19:23:30 wait, it's not opposite 19:23:41 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:50 if you change the last line to (print (list (documentation 'foo 'function) (documentation 'bar 'function))), it'll be ("foo!!" "bar!!") 19:25:04 stassats`: When did you make the change? I may be remembering the difference, but not the reason. 19:25:38 2e52fa0553c5a256f482ee14e30608acf55e5f48 Feb 4 15:21:22 2013 19:27:06 acl and lw print ("foo!!" "bar!!") too, others print ("bar!!" "bar!!") 19:27:23 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-195.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:46 abcl is foo bar too 19:28:23 oO 19:28:31 so, neither choice would be atypical, but ("foo!!" "bar!!") is the only one which makes sense to me 19:28:34 asdf 2.33 ! 19:31:01 zophy: what about asdf 2.33? 19:31:41 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:48 where is it available? git on common-lisp.net is still down, apparently... 19:32:20 i actually may be misremembering and that commit was just fixing a change which introduced that 19:32:26 http://l1sp.org/asdf/asdf.lisp 19:32:34 stassats`: I must have mixed them up. It was SBCL that did what I wanted, and CCL that was unexpected. I was only generating docs with those. 19:32:47 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:33:00 stassats`: ccl had a nicer lambda-list info, so I was going back and forth. 19:33:12 I see http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/#downloads is still available as well, as is http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.lisp 19:33:21 and 2.33 is there as well. 19:33:36 i'll have to think about what happens when you set (setf (documentation x 'function) documentation) and then define a function 19:33:40 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.lisp 19:33:50 because there're different places where documentation is stored 19:34:14 but git pull still gives me "fatal: unable to connect to common-lisp.net: 19:34:15 common-lisp.net[0: 50.7.166.114]: errno=Connection refused" 19:34:34 -!- minion [~minion@pppoe.178-66-37-51.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:34 -!- specbot [~specbot@pppoe.178-66-37-51.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:35 anyway, minion and specbot are going to sleep 19:34:49 AeroNotix [~xeno@abot241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:35:08 gendl: cl.net is "migrating" 19:40:54 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:41:19 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 19:42:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:20 is there a way to completely ignore namespaces with plexippus xpath? 19:44:36 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:00 guaqua: google for "xpath ignore namespace." 19:46:04 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:46:12 i did try doing that. it seems that everything that matches the html4 spec (tag names) are found but no html5 tags. so, to augment the question: using dom created with closure-html 19:48:38 guaqua: What makes you think it's a namespace thing then? Have you looked at nodes themselves, e.g. by inspecting them in SLIME? Is the case for the tag names what you expect? 19:50:25 i have to do some more inspecting 19:58:00 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:07 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-246.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:00:24 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:01:19 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:43 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:43 inspecting a full dom-tree is a pain in the ass 20:04:15 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:04:17 sbaugh [~sbaugh@unaffiliated/sbaugh] has joined #lisp 20:05:02 guaqua: maybe you can first filter your xml to put all elements into the same namespace before operating upon it 20:05:20 guaqua: (using cxml, of course) 20:06:04 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:08:04 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 20:08:04 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Changing host] 20:08:04 sambio [~sambio@unaffiliated/sambio] has joined #lisp 20:08:05 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:08:17 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0112b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:56 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:11:15 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:14 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 20:14:52 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:16:05 -!- sdemarre [~serge@143.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:17:33 Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the whole (setf (documentation thing 'function) ...) question, but I for one, do actually want the ability to setf docstrings to nil. 20:17:39 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-183-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:17:50 This actually came up at work just the other day.... 20:22:56 H4ns: that might be an option 20:23:29 everything but html4 tags are just "text" in the dom 20:23:33 -!- akovalenko [~user@77.51.63.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:24:49 err, well, not sure 20:26:27 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:27:00 yeah. the html5 tags are not even present in the dom 20:27:06 skipped altogether 20:28:52 sheeet 20:29:06 keyboard screwd on lispms lol 20:29:29 guaqua: So it skips all unknown tags? That's pretty screwed up if you ask me... 20:30:24 at least they are not in the dom 20:30:40 Maybe there's a flag or switch to include unknown tags? 20:31:00 that's what i'm after right now 20:31:12 cross: that sounds like a workable extension, but the hyperspec says the new value is a string. 20:34:15 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:37:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:39:14 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:39:29 gigamonkey [~user@50.1.48.160] has joined #lisp 20:39:38 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:40:49 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:29 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:44 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:57 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:48:05 -!- myk267 is now known as Myk267 20:48:27 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:50:51 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abot241.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:29 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:51:52 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboq38.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:53:12 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 20:53:38 -!- nightfly__ [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 20:53:57 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:54:07 nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:53 ISF [~ivan@189.61.222.251] has joined #lisp 20:56:01 As long as I can specify an empty string, I'm a happy man. 20:57:08 bailing out. can't solve those pesky namespaces tonight. if someone has any ideas as to how to extract text from html (not using chtml+xpath), i'm all ears 20:57:25 guaqua: I wrote a python script with beautiful soup. 20:57:31 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:40 i've done that a few times. this time i'd just like to use lisp :) 20:58:45 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:06 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:12 no one told me genera is 64bit....meh...... 21:03:01 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:07:00 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:29 guaqua: did you actually try to remove the name spaces before using xpath? 21:09:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-229-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:11:52 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:14:53 wbooze: the latest Open Genera release seems a bit old! Anyway I've to prove it... 21:15:30 guaqua: because my cursory attempt showed that approach to work fine 21:16:14 pnpuff: i just tried mit cadr, but the keyboard sucked..... 21:16:24 guaqua: parse using closure-html, remove namespaces from resulting document, use bare xpaths with xpath:evaluate. 21:16:46 couldn't even input a : there..... 21:17:22 it's all based on US kbd again or so.... 21:19:55 -!- jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:59 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:09 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host79.186-125-150.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:21:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-201.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:23:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@50.1.48.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:13 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:35 -!- lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-48-160.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:27:50 H4ns: i have to take a look at how to remove the namespaces afterwards. i tried working with node-sets, but at that point the nodes which didn't match html 4.0 dtd were already dropped 21:28:06 but i'm off to sleep. have to take a look at the problem some other time. night! 21:29:05 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298546.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:52 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:31 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:35:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.216.124] has joined #lisp 21:35:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.216.124] has quit [Changing host] 21:35:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:46:28 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:48:46 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52:19 -!- zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:52:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:14 Novimundus [~eodnhoj@66.44.30.54] has joined #lisp 21:56:27 Hello everyone. I'm learning lisp and I was wondering if someone could explain to me the diff between top and tail recursion. 21:56:35 I don't deeply understand it yet. 21:57:05 google? 21:57:30 Already googled. I have an idea based off of that, but not really. 21:57:47 Stack Overflow had a nice explanation, but it's not what I conceived, so now I'm not sure what it is I'm defining. 21:57:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-210-217.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:01 Or more accurately, what stack overflow had had nothing to do with what's being taught to me. 21:58:18 how about wikipedia? 21:58:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:51 Hmm. Didn't think they'd have specific terms like that. Let me check. 21:59:01 Oh. Sweet. Thanks. 21:59:14 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 21:59:38 Novimundus: you don't have to know. you search. that's what searching is for 21:59:50 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-250-15.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:12 you are welcome 22:01:06 never heard of top recursion 22:01:30 Fare: I was thinking that, too. 22:01:33 recursion: see recursion; come back here and do something with the results. 22:01:52 tail recursion: go there (let it report its own results) 22:02:02 Exactly. That's what I've been learning too, and wiki/google isn't helping. But according to this Lisp Tutoring site, there's some kind of fundamental difference. 22:02:21 Novimundus: url? 22:02:24 call: start a new world (frame), let it evaluate stuff and report back to you. 22:02:27 http://art2.ph-freiburg.de/art/register 22:02:33 tail call: become the new world (frame). 22:02:37 You need to sign in and get to lesson 5 xP 22:02:49 Heh, well I get a 404 anyway. 22:02:59 But yeah, not about to do that ;) 22:03:21 Here this should work:http://art2.ph-freiburg.de/Lisp-Course 22:04:16 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:05 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:06:44 wow a site that uses cl-http 22:07:11 so lispm is not alone 22:07:13 :D 22:08:36 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:09:30 tail recursion: find some results. if they're not good, then see recursion. 22:10:10 indeed, it's good news to see a site bult on lisp :) 22:10:19 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:51 antonv: I think the point was that its not using Hunchentoot 22:12:11 So this site IS legit right? 22:12:11 antonv_ [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 22:12:17 I'm not like learning some dead dialect of lisp am I? 22:12:37 Novimundus: No idea  does it match up with http://gigamonkey.com/book? 22:12:53 my turn to explain tail recursion :) 22:12:56 Novimundus: lisp is dead, so all lisp dialects are dead. 22:13:06 Novimundus, if the function before making a recursive call to itself can throw-away all the local information (local vairables and parameters), then the recursive call is tail recursive 22:13:08 *sigh* 22:13:16 Novimundus: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 22:13:30 Isn't the fact that you can run programs from 1960 in CL the proof of that? 22:13:30 Thats what I get for thinking itd be faster to type a URL manually. 22:13:44 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:14:35 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:14:38 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:41 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 22:17:45 btw, the author of that course Novimundus is attending is a professor of Psychology 22:18:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:18:35 one of his projects is NetCoach - Authoring System and Web-Server for Developing and Running Adaptive Web-based Distance Learning Courses 22:18:45 and it is build on lisp (CL-HTTP) 22:19:52 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:20:25 as I see it is being sold by this company: http://www.orbis.de/en/solutions/e-learning/ 22:20:46 between various other their solutions (SAP consultancy, CRMs, business intelligence, etc.) 22:20:50 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.85.30] has joined #lisp 22:22:07 who is using NetChoach? http://www.orbis.de/en/solutions/e-learning/clients/ 22:22:15 isn't it a lisp success story? 22:22:19 sellout THAT'S what I SAID! 22:22:32 I just wanted confirmation. Thanks so much. 22:23:45 Novimundus: you should consult an ophtalmologist if you want confirmation of your reading abilities. 22:24:04 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:27:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-250-15.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:27:31 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d8156af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:27:34 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@102.201-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 22:27:34 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@102.201-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 22:27:35 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 22:29:29 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-35-243.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:24 -!- tekai [~tekai@g224070089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: zZZ] 22:34:16 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 22:35:08 -!- Novimundus [~eodnhoj@66.44.30.54] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:37:28 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:34 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:34 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:51 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:47:50 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:23 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 22:50:41 amak [~amak@89-180-24-65.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:50:45 hi 22:51:04 in a repl i start swank-server and then connect with SLIME 22:51:30 but when i define variable A , in slime, it is not visible in repl 22:54:03 amak: how do you define a variable? 22:54:18 (defvar a 5) for example 22:54:28 global variable 22:54:37 strange 22:54:43 repl has its own thread, doesn't it 22:54:55 how do I know? 22:56:01 amak: anotyher guess, maybe in slime and in reply you are in different packages? 22:57:06 let me see 22:57:22 nope 22:57:25 same package 22:57:33 common-lisp-user 22:57:44 have you evaluated the defvar form? 22:57:58 yes 22:58:04 in the inferior lisp 22:58:09 but before connecting 22:58:15 I created a function 22:58:17 -!- az [~andre@kettu.znaider.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:19 on repl 22:58:28 and then connect with slime 22:58:39 and then? 22:58:42 but function is not visible 22:58:48 it is undefined 22:59:03 maybe you connected to different lisp process than your repl? 22:59:14 maybe you started two swanks? 22:59:20 I don't think so 22:59:55 before i connected before started the server it said connection refused 23:00:16 i just quit the repl 23:00:23 and the connection was closed on emacs 23:01:08 -!- tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:31 amak: I have tried to connect to remote swank, (defvar *a* 5) in slime and then *a* in repl 23:01:33 it returns 5 23:01:37 I am using SBCL 23:01:41 what is your lisp implementation? 23:02:49 no 23:02:53 ECL 23:02:58 no what? 23:02:59 but in sbcl it is the same 23:03:03 You're at the point where you seem to know so little you can't even tell us what you're doing wrong. 23:03:07 something wrong.. 23:03:39 should work 23:03:50 pkhuong: yeah :( 23:04:34 I'm doing an application for OSX 23:04:38 amak: maybe you do some simple error, but just don't think about it 23:05:02 like (defvar a 5) and then try b in repl 23:05:04 and I want to embed ECL so the application is extensible 23:05:13 or really connect to different swank 23:05:18 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:21 good plan! 23:05:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-217.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:26 ColonelJ [~shardfire@pdpc/supporter/student/colonelj] has joined #lisp 23:06:01 why ECL and not, for example. SBCL or CCL? 23:06:08 *drewc* scrolls back 23:06:46 is anyone here interested in method resolution orders for multiple inheritance, and not trying to dissuade people from using inheritance like people in #python trying to do? 23:07:00 ColonelJ: it's fully specified in CLOS. 23:07:10 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:12 Multiple inheritance and multimethods. 23:07:13 antonv_: to avoid the code-build-run I've made low level core image API so I can program it in lisp and see the results interactivly 23:07:16 pkhuong: yes I know I was trying to come up with something different 23:07:18 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 23:07:56 drewc: I read somewhere that sbcl can't be embedded in C family runtime environment 23:08:30 antonv_: for me it is very important to connect with swank while the application is running 23:08:36 I guess a question would be who understands why CLOS is the way it is, and what's wrong with my idea, if anything 23:09:23 amak: well... Anyway, it works better the other way: extend Lisp with some code written in C or what not. I hear it's the same for Python, Perl, Ruby and even Lua. 23:09:47 why the 'even'? 23:10:04 amak: well, it depends on what you mean by 'embedded' ... but yes, you will have to run the lisp image and connect to it via CFFI or SWANK or usockets etc ... 23:10:28 amak: I have tried with ECL 23:10:31 still works for me 23:10:36 uffi to map with C api 23:10:38 hmmm 23:10:48 it is something in configuration 23:11:04 I started ECL on console, started swank, connected from slime, (defvar *a* 5) from slime. In the REPL *a* evaluates to 5 23:12:19 :( 23:12:34 what is the communication-style you're using= 23:12:35 ? 23:12:36 amak: don't worry, there is some cause 23:12:38 ColonelJ: have you read AMOP and your idea is complete far away from what we currently (meta-)have and cannot be implemented using '(meta-)standard' meta-objects? 23:12:58 antonv_: SWANK:*COMMUNICATION-STYLE*? 23:12:59 amak: let me check, meantime,what is yours communication-style? 23:13:03 NIL 23:13:15 NIL here too 23:13:27 amak: try something else 23:13:32 drewc: that's enough 'meta's thankyou 23:13:36 defvar in repl and test it in slime 23:13:39 ColonelJ: IIRC, the C3 paper and Baker's CLOStrophobia describe properties, strengths and weaknesses of CLOS's method ordering. 23:13:43 antonv_: I've tried before 23:13:49 I've read the C3 one already 23:13:52 antonv_: they give errors 23:13:57 exit lisp 23:14:11 ColonelJ: is it? Sorry, I will not talk with you again. thanks for informing me. 23:14:14 restartinh emacs 23:14:20 and check in emacs if slime is disconnected 23:14:51 drewc: metalisp is just lisp isn't it? 23:14:53 amak: another test: (defvar *a* 5) in repl, and then *a* again in repl 23:15:59 drewc: anyway I don't remember reading it, I will do if it has anything interesting or enlightening about multiple inheritance in it 23:16:13 because I find the whole subject utterly confusing and irritating 23:16:32 AMOP goes over multiple inheritance a good bit iirc, because it was built partially to deal with Flavors which used a different ordering than CLOS? 23:17:17 amak: how is going? 23:17:24 antonv_: no joy 23:17:31 restarted emacs and sbcl 23:17:34 connect 23:18:00 how do you know you are connected to the sbcl where you have repl? 23:18:06 antonv_: funny is that the error is tracked on emacs 23:18:24 how tracked? 23:18:29 antonv_: if I (quit) in repo it disconnect on slime 23:18:39 amak: good 23:18:50 antonv_: (lisp-implementation-type) ? 23:18:58 that is how I know :) 23:19:01 antonv_: open the stack trace (I'm sorry but I'm java business software engineer) 23:19:03 amak: (lisp-implementation-type) 23:19:15 amak: it's a feature of slime 23:19:26 amak: me too 23:19:30 amak: sometimes 23:20:05 -!- N3RG4L [~N3RG4L@192.210.208.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:20:19 drewc: it is tried on ECL and SBCL 23:20:24 antonv_: pretty rough, although things are changing with some byte code magic 23:20:32 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:41 the ERROR is HANDLEd, not tracked ;) 23:20:43 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:48 amak: so, you are connected 23:20:52 try defvar 23:20:55 yes 23:21:12 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:39 where, in repl or in slime? 23:21:46 antonv_: you have the inferior lisp? 23:21:47 N3RG4L [~N3RG4L@192.210.208.231] has joined #lisp 23:21:54 when you connect to the repo? 23:21:56 I don't think I have time to even find a copy of AMOP right now but I'll look out for it 23:22:06 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:17 amak: no, it is another lisp 23:22:35 inferiour lisp buffer shows only if you started slime with new lisp 23:22:35 you do it in the *scratch*? 23:22:37 M-x slime 23:22:48 antonv_: ok that was the problem 23:23:02 amak: if you connect to remote swank using M-x slime-connect, then no *inferiour-lisp* buffer created 23:23:19 I told, a cause exists 23:23:43 but you said when you exit repl, slime disconnects 23:23:48 you lied :) 23:24:17 antonv_: probably I launched slime 23:24:45 amak: btw, you can have several slime connections from a single emacs 23:24:49 and I thought the *inferior-lisp* was the repl connected to remote lisp 23:24:53 amak: to different lisps 23:25:07 where you test the defvar? 23:25:26 in *scratch* (thats emacs lisp right= 23:25:27 ) 23:25:50 folks often use REPL to refer to the command line CL repl that many imps offer, or the *inferiour-lisp* buffer as well ask *slime-repl foo* ... 23:25:56 ah 23:25:57 davazp [~user@212.129.66.122] has joined #lisp 23:26:08 but it this case, heh ... emacs is not common lisp 23:26:39 i don't have a slime-scratch 23:26:55 M-x slime-scratch 23:27:04 amak: funny, emacs lisp is mixed into all these repls, swanks 23:27:36 are there any lispers that don't use emacs? 23:27:51 ColonelJ: yes 23:27:57 ColonelJ: I heard of them 23:28:04 drewc: funny I don't have slime-scratch 23:28:30 amak: why do you need slime-scratch? 23:28:46 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:28:47 amak: drewc meant M-x slime-scratch 23:29:12 i don't have the command 23:29:37 amak: doesn't matter 23:29:50 amak: continue with your OS X app and then show us results 23:30:03 I created a buffer called *slime-scratch) 23:30:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.85.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:30:20 and then 23:30:24 M-x slime-mode 23:31:11 antonv_: that's it 23:31:17 antonv_: :) 23:32:27 because slime-scratch is not there? 23:32:47 nop 23:32:48 /contrib/slime-scratch.el ? 23:32:49 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:33:07 So, you are using an ancient slime? 23:33:16 no 23:33:34 just setup the environment one week ago 23:33:42 drewc: or just not slime-fancy. 23:33:53 amak: http://www.quicklisp.org/ <--- has a modern slime/swank 23:34:02 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:34:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:34:34 Bike: regardless, /contrib/slime-scratch.el must be there... 23:36:35 yes it is 23:36:55 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 23:37:35 anyone here works on commercial project or product using lisp? 23:38:00 amak: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Loading-Contribs.html#Loading-Contribs 23:38:10 amak: and yes, many do. 23:38:18 akovalenko [~user@77.51.63.76] has joined #lisp 23:40:33 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:52 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.214.175.209] has joined #lisp 23:42:28 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:49 amak: what is your OSX program is going to do? 23:44:49 antonv_: take a basic images and easily apply graphical effects 23:45:43 do you have any working results already? 23:45:50 antonv_: year 23:45:52 yeah 23:46:02 i've a prototype 23:46:06 very functional 23:46:09 but without lisp, right? 23:46:13 yes 23:47:01 when you have some lisp related results, show us. Here, or if you will use ECL, at ecl-devel 23:47:33 antonv_: in less than hour 23:47:52 i was able to run lisp code in C program 23:48:53 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:49:01 or: you were able to use a lisp implementation to connect with via your C program that runs lisp code? :P 23:50:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:52:29 *drewc* has (cffi:defbitfield git-status-t ...) in his other frame, so is running C code from a Lisp program ! 23:52:37 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:53:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 23:56:05 mc40 [~mc@host86-148-31-142.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:01 -!- akovalenko [~user@77.51.63.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]