00:05:19 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:07:01 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:13 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.137.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:13:21 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:22 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-116.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:17:29 bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 00:25:27 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.2.51] has joined #lisp 00:30:13 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:36 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 00:33:33 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:36:00 what does #.( ... ) do? 00:36:14 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:36:22 i'm having trouble searching for docs on "#." 00:36:25 clhs #. 00:36:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 00:36:29 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 00:37:45 nice! how do people here usually go about looking up stuff while hacking? 00:38:35 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-162-137-53.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:38:42 M-x hyperspec-lookup, or hyperspec-lookup-reader-macro in your case 00:43:43 tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:25 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:46:07 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:48:58 speeder [~needhelp@201.81.173.208] has joined #lisp 00:49:03 whoa 00:49:05 lisp has a channel! 00:49:07 and it has people! 00:49:27 can I ask about lisp variations here? or it is for CL only? 00:49:41 CL 00:50:00 anyone can point to me where I find a variation of lisp that suit my needs? 00:50:35 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:50:39 What are your needs. 00:50:48 Err. What, precisely, do you mean by 'variation of lisp' and why do you think one of them is bound to suit your needs better than another? 00:52:25 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:54:31 *sw2wolf* I know CL step by step by hacking STUMPWM. It seems other lisp dialects cannot provide such a real app. for you to tweak :) 00:55:10 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:55:18 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-162-137-53.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:31 Would there ever be a case where (defun foo (&key x y &allow-other-keys)...) would not be equivalent to every call to foo having ":allow-other-keys t" passed to it? eg: (foo :allow-other-keys t :x 3 :w 7) 00:56:08 drmeister: I think if they explicitly pass :allow-other-keys nil it should remove the &allow-other-keys. 00:56:19 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:56:28 If &allow-other-keys is equivalent to every call to the function with ":allow-other-keys t" 00:56:35 Bike: Yes - you are correct. 00:57:12 So if you made that foo (foo :allow-other-keys t ...) that would be wrong, since they could have a call like (foo :allow-other-keys nil ...) which you'd translate to (foo :allow-other-keys t :allow-other-keys nil ...) 00:58:18 oh, no, i don't think :a-o-k nil can actually desuppress checking. 00:58:32 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:58:39 In fact i canot understand why CL needs "&allow-ther-keys" ? 00:58:57 Because it's convenient when you're throwing plists around. 00:59:20 <|3b|> a function with &rest could distinguish the 2 cases 00:59:38 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:42 @rest should be enough ? 00:59:52 Bike: What do you mean "oh, no, i don't think :a-o-k nil can actually desuppress checking." 01:00:19 drmeister: That if you have &allow-other-keys and pass :allow-other-keys nil, checking is still suppressed. 01:00:58 sw2wolf: not if you want to parse the rest as keys. ((lambda (&rest keys &key x) ... (apply #'something-else keys) ...) :y 9) => oops 01:01:42 Does "keyword argument checking" mean only allowed arguments are permitted? I've read it so many times the words are starting to swim. 01:01:59 drmeister: basically. it's buried in the lambda-list part of the clhs somewhere. 01:02:04 Bike: seems clear 01:02:35 sw2wolf: I mean, it won't work, since there's no &allow-other-keys. 01:02:57 so :y 9 is NOT allowed 01:03:08 I guess this is my problem - clhs 3.4.1.4 "Unless keyword argument checking is suppressed, an argument pair must a name matched by a parameter specifier" - it sounds like it was written by Yoda. 01:03:33 sw2wolf: yes, even though you'd like it to be, so you can pass it to #'something-else. 01:04:07 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@76-205-169-48.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:04:11 So: unless keyword argument checking is SUPPRESSED, an argument pair must be matched with a parameter specifier. 01:04:23 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:04:38 sounds right. 01:05:02 So what is the point of :a-o-k nil? 01:05:25 ...well, i'm not sure. 01:05:40 Overriding a later :a-o-k t, maybe 01:06:00 I see an example: overriding a later :a-o-k 01:06:45 Ok, well that gives me a simple way of integrating the parameter &allow-other-keys with the function arguments. 01:07:14 I treat it like an extra, left-most keyword argument. 01:08:13 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:11:13 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:15 This stuff writes itself sometimes. 01:12:55 -!- hagish [~hagish@e181022238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:13:52 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:29 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-162-137-53.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:16:51 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:17:55 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:11 v__ [~v@61.173.30.62] has joined #lisp 01:39:17 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-8-92.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 01:40:33 -!- v__ [~v@61.173.30.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:40:43 -!- jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:40:44 cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has joined #lisp 01:41:28 How should one submit a patch to the atdoc project? Just send an email to David? 01:42:29 Also, how come the snapshot date in quicklisp appears to be later than the most recent commit at http://www.lichteblau.com/git/?p=atdoc.git;a=commit;h=acc04844fec67645856711f9735588edd5224fe8 01:43:54 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:02 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:27 -!- ncw [~ncw@host31-54-161-130.range31-54.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:15 michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-70-216.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:13 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:41 -!- michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-70-216.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:50:25 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:38 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:08 -!- cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:52:35 v__ [~v@199.68.198.120] has joined #lisp 01:53:19 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 01:53:32 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 01:54:58 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:02:32 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:34 if i have a list of functions (that take no arguments, but their results vary based on a dynamic-variable), what's a pretty way to return the value of the first function that returns a non-nil value (without calling any of the remaining functions)? 02:06:54 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:05 robot-beethoven: (some #'funcall functions)? 02:07:53 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:25 Bike: brilliant! i felt their was a straightforward way (but couldn't see it) 02:13:55 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:03 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:02 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:18:22 cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has joined #lisp 02:19:08 speeder_ [~needhelp@201.81.173.208] has joined #lisp 02:19:10 I am back 02:19:40 I need a list variation that is good to handle text, and that I can easily integrate with a C program, and is portable 02:20:32 -!- speeder [~needhelp@201.81.173.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:21:15 and why do you want Lisp exactly? 02:21:58 because when I used a Lisp derived thing many years ago for the same task, it worked very well 02:22:18 it is to make text-based games 02:22:33 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:22:41 (not ASCII based, literal text based, verbose, lots of descriptions) 02:22:59 -!- dim [~dim@orion.naquadah.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:23:11 ok, so what do you need from #lisp then? 02:23:16 now why it worked well... I don't remember. 02:23:20 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:23:40 -!- cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:24:03 dim [~dim@orion.naquadah.org] has joined #lisp 02:24:04 drewc I need a implementation of any variation of lisp that I can easily integrate in a C program. When I used it last time was a online game, and the interpreter was coded directly into the game engine, I cannot rip it out to make a offline game 02:24:25 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 02:24:38 oh, and that can handle text (obviously), a math-focused implementation is no good 02:27:23 well, you have described many implementations ... as for easy integration, well, that depends on what you mean. But since you are not a lisp user, and you do not seem to know of Common Lisp at all ... you may be in the wrong place. 02:28:10 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 02:28:12 (and/or at the wrong time for that matter) 02:34:04 speeder_: you could check out ECL: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ 02:34:35 or also, guile which has 'extension language' in its mission statement, but #scheme is over there ---> 02:35:37 Fade: Picolisp was my thought ... does that have a channel? 02:36:07 yes! #picolisp is thataway ---> 02:36:11 i only looked at picolisp briefly, and certainly not long enough to figure out its support culture. :) 02:36:49 well, "I need a implementation of any variation of lisp that I can easily integrate in a C program 02:36:52 " 02:37:02 that sounds like ECL or Guile, to me. 02:37:07 is one thing I know of picolisp :) 02:37:34 you have a different version of easy than I do ... maybe my bad ;) 02:38:05 easy? easy was in the criteria? i'm all hepped up on cold medicine. god knows what's in my head. 02:39:59 that said, ECL is what first went through my mind ... but yeah, first speeder_ should maybe learn lisp before using it, or simply read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linked_list and implement that very very easy struct, but meh... wrong place/time 02:41:12 mmmm cold medicine ... I remember when I was a singer and we had a show in the night, and I could not speak during the day because of a cold/flu type symptom .... 02:41:56 a full bottle of http://www.buckleys.ca/ later, and I could sing that set quite well! 02:42:05 lua is a decent scheme, some people tell me. 02:42:36 i've heard the same of ruby, but have never investigated. 02:42:47 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-162-137-53.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:58 I like ecmascript/JS myself, it is a nice language, and seems lispy to me 02:43:25 too much syntax for my taste in any of the above. 02:43:56 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:07 I tried ruby, and python, lua and a few others during my transition period from Perl -> CL 02:44:31 I used python rather a lot 02:44:44 I didnt get to lisp in earnest until 2005 or so. 02:45:24 unfortunatly for me, it took a while to figure out what I dislike about CL, and the nice thing about CL is that it can easily be changed and my dislikes are not something I want to remove anyway 02:45:39 is was about 2003 for me, full time in 2004 02:46:46 I still used python up until 2005 or so, but only because I was using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_(text_editor) along with emacs at the time 02:46:47 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:10 I still do system admin/integration stuff in python. 02:47:26 well, anything that's more than a page full of shell code at any rate. 02:47:32 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:51 pers` [~user@ec2-54-234-103-44.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:09 and strangely enough, I am writing a CLeo now... based on outline/org mode files, and will replace emacs eventually 02:48:09 CampinSa` [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:14 though since quicklisp/buildapp, I have been using sbcl to cut out simple standalone executable utilities 02:48:23 in spite of the extravagantly fat binaries. 02:48:27 I use /bin/sh for shell scripting ... 02:48:33 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:47 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.127.74] has joined #lisp 02:48:50 so do I 02:48:51 I am a wee bit odd in that regard .. sbcl --script for the rest 02:49:42 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:49:48 -!- CampinSa` is now known as CampinSam 02:49:52 this is a weird editor. 02:49:54 kliph` [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:50:34 samebcha1e [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:48 I figured you were a life long emacs user, drew. 02:50:51 I have an array M and an array access function (defun M (n) (elt M n)), my setf function (defun (setf M) (n value) (setf (elt M n) value)) does not work. What did I do wrong= 02:50:53 Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 02:51:02 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:51:05 Leo? yup, I did not use it as an editor actually ... it was my literate editor organiser 02:51:06 nullman` [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:08 -!- kliph` is now known as kliph 02:51:19 sepi: you reversed the names of the arguments 02:51:19 sepi: paste the code: paste.lisp.org 02:52:00 it looks like a mail reader. 02:52:23 drewc: I don't get, what should go where 02:52:34 sepi: setf functions receive the new value as their first argument. 02:52:37 (defun (setf m) (n value) ...) is probably not what you want 02:52:56 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@108.87.19.193] has joined #lisp 02:53:09 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:53:56 jonasac` [~jonasac@li298-140.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:16 Bike: Oh, wow 02:54:24 I didn't expect that 02:54:32 tanks for your help 02:54:37 Fade: it saved my tonnes of time, tangling source rather then typing it all out ... CL managed to make the uneeded code not neccessary at all, so I stopped using it save for html ... and then org mode ... I stopped using leo completely 02:55:08 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.68.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:55:08 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 02:55:57 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.127.74] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- jonasac [~jonasac@li298-140.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- guaqua` [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- pers [~user@ec2-54-234-103-44.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:55:58 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 02:56:22 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:41 but, I miss the whole 'literate outline' thing, and so writing that part again, save for not GUI based but html5/js based, and not xml based, but org mode files that are easy to view/commit/change in the source repository ... 02:57:54 http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html is the proper start of that , it is a weave, and the test suite for that is tangled from the same file. 02:58:36 the whole literate programming thing kind of does my head in. 02:58:51 teggi [~teggi@123.21.167.147] has joined #lisp 02:59:26 -!- hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:59:36 -!- techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:00:10 guaqua` [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 03:00:10 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 03:01:25 yeah, it does not make sense very much for team work, but it can and will ... 03:01:43 przl_ [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:02:35 *drewc* hopes 03:03:10 do not worry about it now, but you will be amound the first to see my new literate lol :) 03:03:47 and for that matter, LLoL .. Literate Lisp on Lines!! :D 03:04:53 ruh roh 03:04:55 techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has joined #lisp 03:04:57 What happened to FTW? 03:05:03 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980CB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:02 well, heh, the thing is that I managed to replace 90% of it with 50 LoC 03:10:12 mgile [~mgile@c-67-190-131-241.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:35 So, heh, as it turn out, either I am slightly more advanced programming wise, or my former self was so brilliant that I do not at all see what he was doing and where he was going and what i see is not really 'real'. 03:12:17 In 2014 we will likely know that answer, or at least have more questions. 03:12:36 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 03:17:55 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:18:17 -!- mgile [~mgile@c-67-190-131-241.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 03:18:57 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 03:20:52 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.2.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:47 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:42:21 pierre1 [~pierre1@177.192.102.89] has joined #lisp 03:44:51 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:19 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@177.192.102.89] has quit [Client Quit] 03:51:53 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:53:30 hum 03:54:35 when is eval processed? 03:55:11 I have a statement like, (let ((dog "fido")) (eval (read-from-string "(setf dog \"rover\")"))) 03:55:25 and dog ends up giving a "dog is undefined" warning 03:55:26 eval is just a function. 03:55:35 however, it doesn't use the local lexical environment. 03:55:43 ah theres my problem :) 03:55:48 any way for it to be pushed into it? 03:56:00 it evaluates the argument in a null lexical env. 03:56:12 You can't eval anything in a non-null lexical environment, if that's what you mean. 03:56:25 I want to make a super small config parser, where user has a config file like, option1 "my-setting" 03:56:41 and just grab the lines in the file and wrap a (setf ... ) around them 03:57:02 with some (let ((option1 "some-default")) 03:57:04 at the start 03:57:04 You could do something like (let ((*dog* "fido")) (declare (special *dog*)) (eval (read-from-string "(locally (declare (special *dog*)) (setf dog \"rover\"))")) but that sucks. 03:57:41 Is there a way to macro it? I have the options either as a list or as one big string like, "dog \"fido\" cat \"garfield\"" 03:57:50 poindontcare [~user@c-69-181-139-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:37 newbie question, in the loop macro is there any way to get at the underlying variable being collected on during loop execution ? 03:59:07 poindontcare: collect whatever into varname 03:59:12 (defmacro binder (&rest body) `(setf ,(read-from-string body))) does not seem to work 03:59:33 ahungry: what you're doing sounds like it might be kind of horrible, to me. 03:59:44 Bike: ah thanks 03:59:45 make your config file out of s-expressions, and you can just use read 03:59:52 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 04:00:43 but what you're describing sounds a little gimped up to me. ymmv 04:01:50 or you could use something like http://common-lisp.net/project/py-configparser/ 04:02:06 if you are afraid of the users, which is a reasonable thing. 04:02:50 anyhow, I'm off. nite folks. 04:02:57 later Fade 04:04:03 well, I'm not worried about a user messing it up and throwing an error 04:04:42 I want to have a file where I have a segment at the top like, ---\n author "myself" \n title "just some title" \n --- 04:05:00 and everything between the dashes will be set as options for later processing in some html output 04:05:14 I guess I could just change the --- and --- to (setf and a closing paren right in the file though 04:05:18 and save myself some headache 04:06:09 (defun set1 (stream) (let ((var (read stream)) (val (read stream))) (setf (symbol-value var) (eval val)))) or something? 04:07:15 thanks will try something like that out 04:08:12 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:12:20 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:12:52 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:15:05 -!- Tumult [~nnscript@108-61-55-76ch.openskytelcom.net] has quit [Remote host 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joined #lisp 06:39:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:39:55 -!- stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.1.6, DRAKMA-1.3.1, CHUNGA-1.1.5, Hunchentoot 1.2.15, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20 06:40:08 axion: therep 06:40:50 ? 06:41:05 so, i see you had some problems 06:41:09 yes 06:43:01 stassats: i cannot figure out why ogg::read-object is undefined 06:43:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-33.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:43:58 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:16 however i must stepout for 15 minutes...brb 06:44:30 because gigamonkey didn't export it 06:44:48 what video? 06:47:35 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:47:52 and it's broken at gray streams 06:48:43 zypeh [~zypeh@175.140.130.195] has joined #lisp 06:50:14 axion: ok, fixed both issues 06:51:38 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:52:54 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:53:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:56:05 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 06:57:41 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 06:58:01 sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:59:36 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:05:28 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:09:21 stassats: awesome 07:09:36 have you tried it? 07:09:48 nope, just got back at the pc 07:09:53 had to run to the store...trying now 07:13:11 success. and all fields retrived. 07:13:41 now, one last puzzle piece to my system of libs needed. 07:13:56 one that will cause me many of sleepless nights i presume 07:13:57 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:09 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:16:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:17:05 looks like a may have to write an apev2 tag retriever 07:17:30 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:17:34 jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has joined #lisp 07:18:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-51-73.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:18:28 -!- jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:35 what is your system? 07:20:56 i need to parse musepack audio tags as well as ogg (done) and mp3 (done) 07:21:18 *stassats* didn't use cl for that, but python 07:21:33 yes mutagen is nice, but i am actually porting apython lbrary 07:22:28 cant find any implementation in cl for ape or apev2 sadly 07:22:39 http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=APEv2_specification 07:23:05 i tried to follow the PCL id3 binary reader and failed miserably 07:23:12 so i assume i will have similar luck 07:23:25 *stassats* finds ape.lisp, but it doesn't have anything except for (magick (ascii-string :length 4)) (version (le-integer :bytes 2)) 07:24:23 it shouldn't be too hard to read tags fro ape 07:24:36 says someone with binary experience 07:25:12 -!- wheelsucker [~user@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:42 i come from gamedev/webdev...this is all new to me 07:26:48 i'd say it's easier than gamedev/webdev, because it has a concrete specification 07:27:18 heh 07:28:16 cant hurt to try i suppose 07:28:28 -!- ioa [~ioa@dynamic2-249-006.usc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:28:50 you can read http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-parsing-binary-files.html 07:28:51 or just re-rip all my hundreds of audio in musepack format from back in the day 07:28:56 and http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-an-id3-parser.html 07:29:09 yes, read it 07:29:18 codepages, unicode, character sets, oh my 07:31:23 *stassats* tried to make an ogg vorbis decoder, now that's hard 07:31:46 agreed. i read the standard before 07:32:59 i even haven't finished making the ogg container parser, got bored and there are more interesting projects 07:33:21 still, it'd be cool to have a decoder in pure lisp 07:34:58 very 07:35:01 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:35:24 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 07:35:32 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:01 are you planning on parsing many ogg files? because i don't think that stassats/ogg is particularly fast 07:36:12 only about 50,000 07:36:15 hehe 07:36:23 -!- Guest96665 [~lukas@194.228.13.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:38:28 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.208] has joined #lisp 07:38:52 -!- lukas_ is now known as Guest77189 07:40:49 -!- techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:41:26 heh, more than that actually 07:41:46 techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has joined #lisp 07:41:58 you can never listen them all, just delete them 07:42:33 they are for archival purposes of friends mainly. 07:42:56 and on random i like hearing different songs all the time anyway 07:43:31 what i would do, if i wanted to write it mostly in cl, use a python program with mutagen, which will output tags in some standardized format, and then process it in CL 07:43:59 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:44 i use python's beets (uses mutagen), which is horribly slow with such a huge db 07:44:55 trying to make something usable in cl 07:45:22 do you read all the tags often? 07:45:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:46:00 yeah its a key part in deciding what to copy to my portable player (what i havent listened to, or a specific genre, or artist) 07:46:31 can't you just create a database with all tags and update it only if a file has been changed? 07:46:48 thats my point...the db is about as slow as re-reading due to numbers 07:46:56 sqlite unoptimized 07:47:07 i see 07:47:38 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:49 just get a portable player with big ass storage 07:48:02 they dont make internal drives that big 07:48:05 its on an array 07:50:07 encode them to 64kpbs 07:50:45 lol. maybe for a non-audiophile. 07:50:53 this are just my lossy array 07:50:58 i have another in flac 07:51:10 quite the music geek here 07:51:14 report yourself to RIAA 07:51:30 ha 07:52:20 Tracks: 51353 07:52:58 too bad i'm not distributing them, or obtaining them illegally. 07:53:05 i only have 24127 07:53:06 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:54:10 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:54:38 yeah almost 20 years of collecting/ripping cd's 07:54:44 hence the variety of formats 07:55:25 first started ripping to musepack, a more tansparent lossy format than mp3, due to owning very expensive speakers i can tell a difference on 07:55:38 sorry, this is getting off topic. 07:55:49 -!- speeder_ [~needhelp@201.81.173.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:56:15 it's not off-topic if you write an apev2 reading library 07:56:25 an indulgence! 07:56:25 i am definitely going to try 07:58:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:58:09 anyway stassats/ogg speed isnt an issue. i really am only going to be reading once anyway 07:58:35 what db would you suggest for this huge task? i am familiar with elephant and couchdb 07:58:47 write your own, of course 07:59:07 hehe probably not a bad idea, as ive already begun work on it 08:03:50 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-230-234.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:08 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:11:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-47.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:13:58 -!- zypeh [~zypeh@175.140.130.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 08:13:59 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:53 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:20:13 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 08:21:32 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.2.51] has left #lisp 08:27:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-47.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-47.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:34:12 crus0e [~crus0e@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:22 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:00 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:44:02 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-47.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:45:57 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:58 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:45:58 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 08:46:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:47:33 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:50 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:50:19 -!- akovalen` [~user@95.72.171.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:54:18 xani [~user@178.183.131.236.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 08:54:43 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:56:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:58:21 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.41] has joined #lisp 08:58:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:59:34 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.224.185.69] has joined #lisp 09:02:33 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:03:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:04:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:13:33 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:14:02 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:00 so i was reading about CLOS 09:15:05 what a weird language 09:15:26 i like it 09:15:53 weird? 09:15:58 what are you trying to say? 09:17:24 that i like it 09:17:33 and that I'm not used to slots and generic functions 09:17:51 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18:02 object oriented programming as it was intended. 09:18:13 objects and protocols. 09:22:46 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.149] has joined #lisp 09:24:36 Why aren't you used to slots? 09:25:26 They're pretty much like any other struct or object members. 09:25:29 bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 09:25:55 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:04 Zhivago: cos i don't often use them :) 09:26:26 Really? What languages do you normally use? 09:27:18 quazimodo: do you use java? 09:27:22 (or C++) 09:27:29 ehu: nup 09:27:37 i use c and ruby 09:27:47 ok. then do you use C structs? 09:27:58 used to when i was playing with c more 09:28:05 *ehu* can't imagine doing C without doing structs 09:28:15 yah 09:28:28 ok. then the slots are roughly equal to C struct members. 09:28:37 (instance slots, that is) 09:28:43 archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 09:28:54 ehu: oh, its not that im having trouble undrestaing it 09:28:57 i like it 09:30:15 ehu: i <3 u 09:30:17 :D 09:30:43 i like ruby to 09:31:28 Hmm. I never really saw much point in ruby. 09:32:16 Zhivago: yeah but it's a sweet language to use 09:33:16 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:33:58 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:34:46 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:36:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:37:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:38:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:44:43 -!- Guest77189 [~lukas@194.228.13.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:44:58 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 09:45:49 dioxirane [~WttM@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 09:47:19 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:49:18 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:49:24 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.65.1] has joined #lisp 09:50:32 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7544a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:56:03 weblocks seems pretty cool 09:57:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:00:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:01:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:04:07 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:05:22 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 10:06:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:07:26 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:32 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.65.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:07 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 stassats: I'm looking at stassats-ogg, that looks a good work. Do you think would be useful maybe create a "lisp interface" to ogg123 so that would be possible to play *.ogg files even from the repl? That wouuld be awesome!! 10:09:53 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:13:28 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:34 sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 10:15:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.158] has joined #lisp 10:15:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.158] has quit [Changing host] 10:15:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:21:56 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:23:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:24:27 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:26:51 -!- rude_chatter1 [~hayden@24-179-43-39.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has left #lisp 10:27:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:40 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:30:33 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:34:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:05 leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has joined #lisp 10:41:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 10:43:03 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:43:33 dioxirane: there's the emacs alsa player (EAP) and several others which let you do that in emacs 10:44:34 -!- Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:06 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:01 pegu: sure, but maybe would be better write a player in CL! 10:46:46 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.224.185.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:52 zypeh [~zypeh@175.140.130.195] has joined #lisp 10:48:23 dioxirane: and a lot more fun 10:48:33 yo ho \ 10:48:52 Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:38 dioxirane: http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/software/shuffletron/ 10:53:35 -!- archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:53:51 wow, thx 10:54:45 -!- v__ [~v@199.68.198.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:55:38 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:42 Mixalot seems great.. 10:56:16 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 10:56:41 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:00:31 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:02:12 leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has joined #lisp 11:03:57 <3 <3 <3 ... "Algorithmic Composition: a Gentle Introduction to Music Composition using Common Lisp and Common Music" (Mary Simoni) seems be a good book to start !!! .. Any useful suggestion ? thx 11:07:48 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.184.227] has joined #lisp 11:11:33 v__ [~v@61.173.98.232] has joined #lisp 11:12:57 -!- corni__ [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:13:52 -!- techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:14:05 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:33 -!- jaimef [~jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:14:55 techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has joined #lisp 11:16:29 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-161-119.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:17:55 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:18:07 -!- xani [~user@178.183.131.236.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:20:50 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-161-119.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:38 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:57 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:19 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:31:49 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:54 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp121-45-111-141.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:34:40 leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB8DAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:58 pierpa [~user@95.234.223.231] has joined #lisp 11:41:36 -!- poindontcare [~user@c-69-181-139-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:57 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:22 reckler [~reckler@ppp121-45-111-141.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:59 are there any good CL related Machine Learning resources around that you guys know about? (stuff that's not mentioned on cliki/cl-net yet maybe). 11:48:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:48:16 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e09b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:33 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp121-45-111-141.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:51:17 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:51:40 Gabor Melis has MGL (look in quicklisp). 11:59:35 Hydan: take a look at Cl Machine-Learning .. :) 12:00:59 dioxirane: do you mean the one from MSI, in that case that's not what I need, a.i. can't read code. 12:03:56 hm, and now that I've said that this shows up.. https://github.com/mathematical-systems/clml 12:05:08 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917089.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 12:05:16 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:05 they still mention their regular license there though.. 12:08:51 "Source codes or technical supports are not included in Free Edition." why is that source on github then? strange.. 12:13:19 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:56 they will sue you if you read it 12:15:02 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.167.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:11 stassats`: yeah, it is kind of ridiculous.. just emailed them the question about the terms. 12:17:23 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-147-063.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:36 that said, they have almost all I needed there (: if only they would update the terms to something sensible.. 12:20:28 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.166] has joined #lisp 12:23:14 Hydan: better use R to conduct some simple experiments. Call R from CL obviously... ^^ 12:23:49 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:24:29 anyway try to be more precise, if you want. What are you trying to accomplish? 12:26:54 dioxirane: https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/dota2prediction working on that. 12:29:38 dioxirane: as a means to learn some more CL and Machine Learning 12:30:13 Welcome to the Machine ... Learning! :) 12:32:37 Hydan: start reading something af serious! 12:32:46 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:32:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:15 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 12:36:29 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:41:15 dioxirane: I am reading alright, it is much nicer to read source along the theory and preferably in CL, not Python. CLML looks OK for that, so thanks and have a good one all (: 12:43:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:54 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:45:49 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-1d1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:48:44 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p5DDB8DAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:49:29 Hydan: ML requires a good math background in my opinion, anyway .. try to read JMLR papers for example .. I do not know and I do not want know hackerrank (: 12:51:11 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.238.31] has joined #lisp 12:59:48 Knirr [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:13:01 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:03 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:34 -!- techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:53 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:59 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.5.29] has joined #lisp 13:18:00 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 13:21:22 sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 13:21:59 techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has joined #lisp 13:24:06 -!- techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:27:50 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote 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[~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 14:55:22 akovalenko [~user@77.51.59.146] has joined #lisp 14:57:11 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:27 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:17 yohooooo 15:02:19 people 15:02:26 whycome no one talked for so long 15:03:02 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-1d1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:03:19 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:23 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:30 ellusioner [ellusioner@c-1d1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:04:31 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:05:31 thomas_yzj [~user@175.8.21.67] has joined #lisp 15:06:01 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-51-73.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:09:19 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 15:09:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:30 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@139.43-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 15:12:07 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@139.43-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 15:12:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:12:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:27 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 15:12:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 15:12:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:15:12 where can i read more about closures, their cost, memory management and such details? 15:15:28 in your implementation source code 15:16:08 so it is mostly implementation dependent 15:21:16 nan_: yes. 15:22:45 one would imagine a compiled closure would happily refer to a bound memory location by address efficiently 15:24:29 The problem is that everything a closure refers to has to not have lexical extent, like automatic variables can have in C or w/e. 15:25:40 closures are cool 15:25:42 well, if the closure is returned, I mean. 15:26:38 Bike: the returned closure just refers to a uniq memory address for the bound lexical variable...or so i imagine it 15:27:01 Bike: that should be just as efficient as a normal variable 15:27:13 what is "a normal variable"? 15:27:33 a non-closed over variable may not exist at the run-time 15:27:44 protist: Usually automatic variables are allocated on the stack, and cease to exist once the function returns. 15:27:54 protist: So if a closure lasts longer than that, there's a problem. 15:27:58 either at all, or live in registers 15:28:27 or live in ram 15:28:32 thanks all 15:28:42 any good tutorial introduce the iolib ? 15:28:47 not sure being on the hardware stack is that much better than being in ram 15:29:05 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:08 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:29:19 -!- jonasac` is now known as jonasac 15:29:20 i think the hardware stack is just nice in that is increments %esp for you automagically 15:29:37 protist: Allocating something with indefinite extent, i.e. on the "heap", is quite a different operation from doing things on the stack, and has a lot more overhead. 15:29:58 ah 15:30:07 guess i need to read some numbers :) 15:30:26 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.5.29] has joined #lisp 15:30:27 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:35 And yeah, automatic variables could get put in registers too 15:30:41 but it %esp just points to memory growing in a different area 15:30:55 it shouldn't be much different...or so my intuition tells me 15:31:07 Yes but when the function returns it ungrows. 15:31:24 And then some other function can use that same area of the stack. So if a returned closure refers to that area of the stack, problem. 15:31:27 yes....hence you just put it in an area of memory not on the stack 15:31:37 Which has a lot of overhead. 15:31:42 which should be very much the same as memory %esp points to 15:31:59 Do you know anything about how malloc works? It's non-trivial. 15:32:25 it can be as simple as an increment 15:32:56 jrajav [~jrajav@38.106.200.130] has joined #lisp 15:33:00 in either case you have two dereferences to get the value of the variable....and one to get the location of the variable 15:34:55 popl %eax (which does (%esp) implicitely) movl (%eax), %eax OR movl IMPLICITELYDEREFEDLOCATION, %eax movl (%eax), %eax 15:35:16 "area of memory not on the stack" is called "heap" 15:35:49 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:36:10 ah ok i will be more liberal with that word....i shy away from it because it is used to describe a data structure as well :) 15:37:35 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:55 no one in their sane mind will mix the two of them 15:38:00 a closure is just like the create , does> pair in FORTH 15:38:41 only the create is anonymous 15:39:44 i thought about making an anonymous create in FORTH....but it seems akward to use without GC...you could easilly lose functions and eat up memory 15:39:57 #forth is some other way 15:40:59 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:33 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:00 jmbr [~jmbr@cpe-70-113-92-89.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:47:08 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@cpe-70-113-92-89.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:32 clpython fixed. yay 15:50:21 protist, have you tried FactorCode.org ? 15:50:48 the factor author shamed the lisp guys at being a better lisp than lisp, yet being a forth 15:51:02 Fare: no...i didn't see why FORTH needs to be changed :) 15:51:22 it has GC, closures, etc. 15:51:46 Fare: ah.....well that does make it much more viable hehe 15:51:57 Fare: kind of like RPL (reverse polish lisp) 15:52:02 I *loved* the RPL 15:52:06 I still miss it 15:52:32 Fare: i have only tinkered with it a tad...but it seems like the step right inbetween FORTH and lisp 15:53:19 Fare: any idea if that has a chance of being in next Quicklisp? 15:53:34 Fare: i have Let Over Lambda in the mail...it has a chapter called Lisp moving Forth moving Lisp ...that is likely badass 15:53:56 of course, the only way it got there is by implementing a real compiler that optimises stack shuffling away and re-expresses it in terms of registers and stack frames. as unforthly as it gets. 15:53:58 Fare: (parody on Moving Forth --- the papers on how to implement a FORTH) 15:54:36 -!- tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:34f3:6e61:b3ee:137e] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:55:13 pkhuong: well the stack frames could be a separate stack...and the registers on the end of the stack are there in some canonical stack machines 15:55:27 pkhuong: and by separate stack i meant a software stack 15:55:31 mean* 15:56:15 pkhuong: RPL isn't interpreted in the same fashion as other FORTHs? 15:56:41 *erikc* wrote the powerpc backend for factor 15:57:01 *protist* wrote a FORTH in x86 :) 15:57:23 i'd say sbcl is still ahead of factor, but it's close 15:57:25 protist: i'm talking about factor. 15:57:34 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:36 pkhuong: ah! gotcha :) 15:57:40 Oh, oh, oh, protist slow down. What? 15:57:55 *stassats`* wishes the talks were about lisp, not forth 15:58:10 hitecnologys: i wrote an indirect threaded FORTH in 32bit x86 AT&T asm :) 15:58:23 protist: oh god. 15:58:38 protist: I thought it was joke. 15:58:46 isn't that like a canonical example? 15:59:03 hitecnologys: it was a naive first attempt....i would do many things differently now...but it is 800 lines without macros expanded....over 2000 lines when expanded 15:59:36 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:1c6a:7578:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 15:59:45 protist: lol, so short. 15:59:54 Anyway, let's talk about *lisp*. 16:00:05 stassats`: yeah it is :)...i took many liberties with my implementation though, i didn't want to read how-to guides...i just dove in 16:00:11 i wish the lisps did a better marketing job on internals, cause there's some features i like but i feel like i can't trust 16:00:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 16:00:40 erikc: sneding an email can clear that up. 16:01:09 is it true that CMUCL speed is competitive with C and FORTRAN? 16:01:23 yup, or reading the compiler, but it's not a scalable (e.g. to the masses) tactic 16:01:24 i read that a little bit ago 16:02:10 protist: on a lot of stuff, you can get within a factor 2, with some thought. I have an FFT in SBCL that's competitive with FFTW. 16:03:37 pkhuong: nice :D 16:03:40 It's not hard to write efficient code in CL, but it does make it amazingly easy to write wasteful functions. 16:04:30 are there any library that provide a sub-dialect where the only constructs are 'performant' 16:04:48 always typed, always dynamic extent, only machine-level types 16:04:50 erikc: you could start by only using vectors 16:04:55 erikc: I don't think so. 16:05:11 i was on c2 16:05:17 and something came along which i agree with 16:05:23 erikc: you could code in C and use the FFI. 16:05:37 most clisp i've seen has fucking awful function names 16:06:44 the language is not called clisp, it's common lisp, cl for short 16:06:49 well, enough times for the memory to persist in my brain 16:06:57 quazimodo: yeah i like to define cdddddddddddddr (jk) 16:06:59 and what are you trying to say with this, again? 16:07:04 stassats`: ya i always forget clisp is gnu cl 16:07:18 clisp is not gnu cl 16:07:34 quazimodo: his question was what your contribution to the discussion is. 16:07:34 wat 16:07:35 pkhuong: i've been playing with this idea for the last little while, to translate the sub dialect to llvm assembly and jit it 16:08:01 GCL is GNU Common Lisp 16:08:09 lol why did i think clisp is gnu 16:08:24 well i mean i use sbcl to fiddle with lisp or emacs so yeah 16:08:43 but anyway, lots of function names leave me asking 'wat the hell is that meant to mean' 16:08:50 its like its own non intuitive culture 16:08:56 erikc: I suppose you've read up on prescheme. 16:09:16 ehu: i have no contribution, just thought id talk abouti t 16:09:32 quazimodo: that's false, most of the functions in CL are descriptive 16:09:37 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.60.122] has joined #lisp 16:09:49 pkhuong: oh, no, i will though, looks like it might be relevant 16:10:12 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.238.31] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:10:19 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 16:10:20 lol 16:10:38 erikc: and mlton. 16:10:46 and #lisp is not a place for uninformed rants 16:11:38 there was also bitc 16:12:35 stassats`: am i the one ranting? 16:12:45 erikc: nope, quazimodo is 16:13:19 erikc: and bitc was for you 16:14:14 hehe yes, i've seen bitc 16:15:55 pkhuong: basically i've been considering the very bad idea of writing a new common lisp implementation on top of llvm with a focus on interoperation with existing ecosystems (e.g. uses elf/mach-o/xcoff for native profiler and debugger support, builds throw/catch on top of the C++ EH ABI for cross-language throwing) 16:16:29 and a very fine grained deploy system (i'd basically like to deploy without gc) 16:17:28 very bad? 16:17:40 sounds kewl to me 16:17:48 erikc: sure... why CL? Why another language implementation? 16:19:03 erikc: join drmeister 16:20:46 Bike: bad for my free time, bad because there's yet-another-lisp 16:21:07 Vicfred [~Futaba@187.206.41.231] has joined #lisp 16:21:17 most of yet-another-lisp don't survive infancy 16:21:25 precisely 16:21:48 mm 16:22:04 ehu: what's drmeister up to? 16:24:13 PuercoPo` [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 erikc: writing a common lisp which compiles to LLVM 16:25:29 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.203.61] has joined #lisp 16:25:42 pkhuong: CL cause its stable and doesn't have first class continuations (not an implementation headache i want to deal with); another implementation cause my gut evaluating SBCL and CCL's source is that their age is as much a disadvantage as an advantage for this particular task 16:26:08 leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9AE9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:27:10 -!- Henesy [~h3n3sy@adsl-75-23-118-193.dsl.peoril.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 16:27:21 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.60.122] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:27:25 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 16:28:54 ehu: oh, that sounds up my alley, i will ping him, he frequents #lisp i guess? (I'm the newb here) 16:30:21 I think you'll find that full common lisp is hostile to pure ahead of time compilation and to separating build-time and deployment environments. 16:32:17 erikc: yes, he's here regularly. 16:32:39 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:33:04 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:47 pkhuong: the commercial CLs (lisp works and allegro) seem to do a good job of it, from reading their docs, they have fine grained deployment (no compiler, no reflection) 16:34:23 erikc: only by supporting an ill-defined subset of CL when deployed. 16:35:12 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:35:31 oh, yes, I'm fine with that mentality, if you use it you pay for it 16:36:15 well it would be nicer if the subset was well-defined. 16:36:33 and you didn't need a thirty page implementation manual to determine exactly what you want removed, probably? 16:37:18 yes, defined + some tooling to inform you 16:38:09 erikc: actually, Allegro will give you a license to distribute the built-in compiler at a price. 16:38:13 I hope you don't like method combinations too much. 16:38:45 erikc: in that case you can support all of cl. 16:39:00 pkhuong: is it just the interface that's missing, or do they really exclude the compiler? 16:39:20 dioxirane [~WttM@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 16:39:42 ehu: I don't know. 16:40:22 really excluding it would surely cut down massively on the image size, plus mean you can't reverse-engineer yourself into having the compiler just by having an application made by an allegro client 16:40:32 ehu: just removing the interface would be pretty pointless 16:41:12 stassats`: well, not being able to compile your method combinations would as well. 16:41:42 -!- duende` [~user@68.166.118.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:41:48 pkhuong: my CLOS knowledge isn't as complete as i'd like, is there something particular to method combinations that you couldn't AOT compile to a bunch of dispatch tables? 16:42:17 erikc: sure. Where "a bunch" is exponential in the number of methods defined on the gf. 16:42:40 ehu: a) clos doesn't have to use the full compiler b) you can precompile clos caches 16:44:10 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:37 ehu: since it's already fixed upstream, and quicklisp pulls from there, should be fine 16:46:45 erikc, are you implementing yet another CL compiler? 16:47:38 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:47:41 Fare: considering it / trying to avoid it 16:48:36 -!- zypeh [~zypeh@175.140.130.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 16:49:01 erikc: how about taking an existing one and making it compile to llvm? 16:49:46 eg as a pluggable backend? 16:49:55 ehu: I've been reading the CCL kernel and compiler, thinking about it there 16:49:55 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.5.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50:14 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 16:50:25 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:51:02 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:42 SBCL's IR2 is basically at the level K&R C. 16:54:58 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-64-86.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:55:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:37 ooooh man, thanks for giving me a broken mcclim right from the start..... 16:57:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:00:24 abeaumont [~abeaumont@79.150.126.219] has joined #lisp 17:00:56 would be nice use Coq or another ATP to prove the compiler correct... 17:02:06 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@187.206.41.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:11 Given how far Leroy's managed to push that, I don't think a proven CL compiler is for this decade. 17:04:54 pkhuong: right :-) 17:05:50 leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has joined #lisp 17:10:22 zophy [ceb02321@gateway/web/freenode/ip.206.176.35.33] has joined #lisp 17:11:12 avoid it 17:11:18 -!- `arrdem [~user@resnet-45-187.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:28 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:22 the world doesn't need yet another cl compiler 17:13:14 how do i sort (list-all-packages) ? sort won't work with either #'string-lessp or #'> ? 17:13:31 :key 'package-name 17:14:08 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:16 Fare: COMPCERT looks a good project...maybe would be nice an analogue project for CL 17:14:49 or maybe you want to design a better lisp for which it makes sense to go through the effort 17:15:16 Flame_Alchemist [~Flame_Alc@95.236.103.126] has joined #lisp 17:15:24 then implement a CL layer on top 17:16:06 Fare: implementing cl on top of another language sounds like not a brilliant use of resources either 17:16:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:37 H4ns: sssshhhh, that's the thing... if he focuses on the kernel lisp, he'll never get to do that useless cl layer 17:17:34 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:17:44 besides, if more of CL could be taken from SICL or some CL-on-CL implementation, plus compiler-specific compiler macros and such, everyone might be happier 17:17:48 _veer [~veer@108.33.26.144] has joined #lisp 17:17:48 -!- _veer [~veer@108.33.26.144] has quit [Changing host] 17:17:48 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:25 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7544a1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:19:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:19:51 for the same effort that brought us 15 CL implementations (and counting, plus obsolete ones not counted), we could have had one verified implementation 17:20:14 verified against what? 17:20:35 some formal spec TBD 17:20:48 allowing for reasoning on CL programs 17:20:59 a la ACL2 17:21:21 (doesn't ACL2 have a model of large parts of ACL2 ?) 17:21:50 -!- pib1902 [~pib1902@your.friendly.media.team.coder.ark-cr.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:58 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@38.106.200.130] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 17:25:18 reasoning on cl programs? with macros and reader-macros? 17:25:38 stassats`: no, reasoning on the transformations performed by the compiler. 17:25:52 Fare: would that verified implementation have run on all the platforms we run on now? 17:26:35 By that ratio, one could write a not-quite-C to assembly compiler in a matter of weeks. 17:26:55 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has 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seconds] 17:37:27 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-178-82.w86-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:37:41 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 17:44:39 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.8.21.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:13 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-070.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:58 Czechton_ [~Czechton@client0730.vpn.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:48:57 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 17:50:33 -!- Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:47 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-070.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:19 -!- Czechton_ [~Czechton@client0730.vpn.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:38 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-gvnyzkhcjrbtziwk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:56:19 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:57:27 leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:34 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 18:00:00 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:37 pib1943 [~pib1943@your.friendly.media.team.coder.ark-cr.info] has joined #lisp 18:03:47 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:04:25 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-178-82.w86-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:04:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has joined #lisp 18:07:27 jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has joined #lisp 18:07:30 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 18:10:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:11:56 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.175.95] has left #lisp 18:14:26 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:13 pkhuong: regarding the verification of C code looks promising maybe use Frama-C and Isabelle/HOL. 18:18:36 I do not know how approach the problem in CL anyway.. at least at the moment.. 18:21:24 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 18:25:17 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:15 bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 18:28:48 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-2-220.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:01 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:04 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-2-220.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:44 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:09 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:19 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 18:37:51 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:27 jaaso` [~user@178.239.31.138] has joined #lisp 18:48:44 -!- jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:49:02 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@li511-224.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:50:52 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:51:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:51:59 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:19 -!- jaaso` [~user@178.239.31.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:54:17 hi, can I see toplevel forms outline? I occasionaly do M-x list-matching-lines defun 18:54:23 but it is far from perfect 18:54:42 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:31 eldariof [~CLD@215-134-158-212.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #lisp 18:57:18 font [~user@85-218-11-118.dclient.lsne.ch] has joined #lisp 18:59:21 stone knives and bearskins 18:59:25 puchacz_: try M-x imenu 18:59:59 stassats`: it is asking me for "Index item:" 18:59:59 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:05 press tab 19:00:21 I see, thanks 19:03:47 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:28 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-248-98.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:39 w 19:16:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:18:00 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:37 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:44 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:52 nem1 [~tyl@85-218-11-118.dclient.lsne.ch] has joined #lisp 19:22:36 ioa [~ioa@dynamic2-249-006.usc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:24:27 -!- ioa [~ioa@dynamic2-249-006.usc.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:24:37 -!- tsuru```` is now known as tsuru` 19:29:44 -!- Flame_Alchemist [~Flame_Alc@95.236.103.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:02 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:18 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-98-202-60-177.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:44 cddr [user@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:b02b] has joined #lisp 19:34:00 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:37:43 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:40:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:42:30 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:35 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:15 -!- crus0e [~crus0e@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: crus0e] 19:46:57 -!- nem1 [~tyl@85-218-11-118.dclient.lsne.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:47:43 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 19:48:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:49:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:49:43 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:54:36 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has joined #lisp 19:55:41 -!- kirkwood [~user@50-194-56-158-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:22 lduros`` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:22 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:00:06 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:02 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:04:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:06:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:07:22 ..seems to exist an introductory work of the "Nominal Isabelle Methods Group" 20:08:12 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:08:31 -!- font [~user@85-218-11-118.dclient.lsne.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:00 jaaso [~user@178.239.31.138] has joined #lisp 20:10:00 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-113.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:18 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:11:23 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-234.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:15:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-25-41.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-51-73.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:19:35 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-125-96.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:20:22 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:35 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.32.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:22:27 Well, so far, most programming proof/verification systems want to work statically. But you could also do reasoning about a program dynamically, while the program is running. Like in a REPL. 20:23:45 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-51-73.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:26:00 and then you run into undecidables faster than you can say "Gödel" 20:26:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:20 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:30 don't they both? There's always the halting problem waiting for you... 20:26:52 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.42.239] has joined #lisp 20:26:57 it's a matter of timescale. 20:27:10 or of frequency. 20:27:20 h3x3d [~h3x3d@37.204.42.189] has joined #lisp 20:27:27 -!- h3x3d [~h3x3d@37.204.42.189] has left #lisp 20:27:32 prxq: I'm dealing with undecidables each and every seconds of my life. 20:27:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:28:09 pjb: of course, but you are not a static analysis program :-) 20:28:09 pjb: do you have software to help you take the decisions? 20:28:28 A lot, in my brains :-) 20:28:51 prxq: wouldn't you say JIT compilers deal with that pretty well 20:29:23 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-iqkqosqqzbfjowru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:30:00 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-248-98.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 20:33:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:54 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:09 -!- lduros`` [~user@pool-108-52-158-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-153-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:38:03 -!- Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:29 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-98-202-60-177.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:29 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:39:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:39:30 Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 20:40:20 jynnantonix [~textual@140.247.0.98] has joined #lisp 20:41:20 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-oaqlcxokidvmlcxv] has joined #lisp 20:41:45 prxq: Why tou do not use metamath to prove your assertion? :-) 20:42:03 *you :) 20:42:16 Apologies if everyone has seen this - it was on Hacker News - a very interesting post about the similarities between Haskell and Lisp: https://groups.google.com/a/lispnyc.org/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/lisp/-NVNhsdQrHo 20:42:23 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.41] has joined #lisp 20:42:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:36 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2982B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:50 Basically McCarthy invented Haskell in 1960 20:43:18 That's rather reductionist (I say before looking at it) 20:43:43 -!- eldariof [~CLD@215-134-158-212.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [] 20:43:48 reckler [~reckler@ppp121-45-111-141.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:29 drmeister: clearly, no. 20:44:33 sure... like ZFC it's useful to build the basis set of lisp 20:44:39 oh, it's just syntax silliness. 20:45:56 Bike: Really? The working Haskell program looks just like McCarthy's version. 20:46:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:41 Syntax is hardly the interesting part of Haskell. 20:48:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:48:32 What is the interesting part of Haskell? 20:48:55 semantics 20:48:59 Types? The IO monad? Lots of stuff. 20:49:12 drmeister: the type system, and its mathematical underpinnings. 20:49:56 ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:00 Right, so if you make a strongly typed Lisp - what do you have? Haskell? 20:50:28 That just invites silly arguments about what "lisp" and "strongly typed" mean. 20:51:09 TypeHoles seems a bit interesting 20:51:33 drmeister: maybe, maybe not. If you have mostly hindley-milner style type inference with existential types and type-level computation, you might be able to argue it's comparable. There's a couple sucb languages. They're not all "Haskell" 20:51:42 -!- joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:21 groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has joined #lisp 20:53:59 joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:13 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-oaqlcxokidvmlcxv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:54:48 but there is a first-order logic TP... 20:55:04 that is pretty unuseful 20:56:08 what is "first-order logic TP" 20:58:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-116.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:42 I rewrote my entire argument-processing system - it's much tighter and won't screw up CALL-NEXT-ARGUMENT - I'm smoke testing it now 20:59:54 Turns out that keyword argument processing requires only one pass through the keyword arguments and then you evaluate init forms into the remaining unbound parameters. 20:59:59 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 21:00:03 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:47 Sorry not CALL-NEXT-ARGUMENT, that should be CALL-NEXT-METHOD. 21:00:49 drmeister: If nothing else I'm sure this is a great way to learn all the nooks and crannies of CL 21:00:57 I've got arguments on the brain. 21:01:25 *Xach* taught some people about the leftmost keyword thing taking precedence just recently 21:01:39 Xach: I agree but it will be plenty more than that. 21:02:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:03:47 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:04:10 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-grihensysgvtnilv] has joined #lisp 21:04:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:05:24 -!- speeder [~needhelp@201.81.173.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:05:58 This is so much easier to debug now that I have working COMPILE and DISASSEMBLE functions. 21:06:12 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@93-80-5-217.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:24 -!- dioxirane [~WttM@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:09:22 drmeister: what does your disassemble function output? C++? 21:09:32 LLVM-IR 21:09:47 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-grihensysgvtnilv] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:09:49 i c 21:10:41 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-gylkbkkbfryxcvwg] has joined #lisp 21:10:43 Here's an example - mind you, argument processing is broken at the moment and I'm in the process of debugging it: http://pastebin.com/MwhWBMLY 21:10:47 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.94.21] has joined #lisp 21:15:27 looks convoluted. How long did it take you to learn the lLVM IR? 21:16:46 I dunno, what month is it? March - I guess I've been working with IR this since last August. 21:16:49 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-gylkbkkbfryxcvwg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:17:38 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-pissgdzjwezlypeq] has joined #lisp 21:17:45 There is a lot of type information embedded in there - I think that makes it look really messy. 21:18:07 But its a portable IR that is lowered to machine code by the LLVM library - it's pretty cool. 21:19:06 I'm very excited about the possibilities. Currently I don't think a lot of people write assembly code within CL. This gives you a portable way to do that. 21:19:42 Machine portable that is - not CL implementation portable - until other CL implementations support LLVM-IR. 21:20:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-78-110.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:11 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:20:21 and as long as you have llvm, surely 21:20:27 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:49 that's nice indeed. I have a use for that, but the rest of the code requires a CL that is fast natively (which means sbcl) 21:21:52 Yeah and as we improve the compiler it will get faster. Maybe not as fast as SBCL but why not? Clang is based on this and it generates fast C/C++ code. 21:22:44 the challenges in compiling C or C++ and CL are vastly different. That SBCL is even competitive with C compilers is more proof that Proebsting is right than anything else. 21:22:47 extending sbcl with llvm might be nice too 21:23:30 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-pissgdzjwezlypeq] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23:51 That's up to the SBCL folks. 21:24:13 Proebsting? Some probability paradox? 21:24:14 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-smnapojnskyqbeiv] has joined #lisp 21:26:47 "Proebsting's Law: Compiler Advances Double Computing Power Every 18 Years" 21:27:42 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:28:37 ah, heh. 21:29:27 -!- jynnantonix [~textual@140.247.0.98] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:29:48 Fare [~fare@70.42.157.21] has joined #lisp 21:29:56 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-smnapojnskyqbeiv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:30:06 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-180-131-134.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:30 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-rvcrfdblvtjbfcxz] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 sambio_ [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 21:33:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-51-73.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:33:47 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 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