00:03:45 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-rc1] 00:05:26 -!- __zero [~zero@121.Red-88-5-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:07:47 michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-66-80.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:55 -!- michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-66-80.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:09:29 -!- tekai [~tekai@d212014.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: zZZ] 00:10:12 michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-66-80.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:31 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.50.16] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 00:13:07 -!- michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-66-80.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:40 Vicfred [~Futaba@187.206.21.66] has joined #lisp 00:14:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-30.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:17:46 Those code golfing are awfully uninterresting. :-( 00:18:30 Just because you'd lose before you could even write one of your package's names doesn't mean they're uninteresting. 00:19:04 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@108.87.19.242] has joined #lisp 00:19:17 Xach, hahaha 00:19:59 *Xach* prays to get an OH #irc out of that one 00:21:09 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.121.4.93] has joined #lisp 00:21:20 That's easy. 00:21:25 Do they count cons cells? 00:21:42 pjb: characters 00:21:53 Hence uninteresting. 00:22:02 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.193.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:02 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 00:22:37 pjb, you should make a COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.GOLF package, a package that exports symbols useful for doing code golf 00:23:34 *jasom* liked the programming language benchmark game compromise of using compressed source-size; it doesn't punish long identifier names too much but still allows comparing across languages 00:23:49 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@187.206.21.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:54 erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:02 jasom: wait until someone decides to write a brute-force optimiser for that as well (dotimes (dotimes 32) ...) ;) 00:25:10 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.56.238] has joined #lisp 00:28:46 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:29:56 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.56.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:29:59 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:30:21 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:30:43 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 00:31:55 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-byvsgpzdqbngbsdx] has quit [Quit: bzzzzzzzzzzzzz] 00:32:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:36:22 -!- normanrichards 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[~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:25 adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:20 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:15 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:24 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@c-68-81-244-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 02:27:36 -!- adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:28:05 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:28:27 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:29:53 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-127-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:32:30 -!- protist [~protist@140.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:35:23 is it common to create empty subclasses in clos as a means of leveraging polymorphism? by empty I mean that they add no new slots. 02:35:52 yes 02:36:00 we typically call them "mixins" 02:36:25 or, if they are concrete classes, just cases 02:36:52 concrete? in what sense? 02:37:04 concrete = instantiable 02:37:14 abstract = not meant to be instantiated 02:37:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.128.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:37:48 I see. there's no way to specify that a class is non-instantiable, right? you just avoid ever instantiating it directly. 02:39:19 you could do some MOPpish stuff to force the issue, if you really want. 02:40:30 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:37 that's ok, for now. I'm only starting out with clos. 02:40:42 mop might melt my brain. 02:42:24 nice, SBCL was smart enough to detect that X is a list in in (progn (push .. X) ) 02:42:43 don't need MOP; initialize-instance would be sufficient 02:43:38 kpreid, you mean you'd throw an error or something? 02:43:59 Quadrescence: note that that's just "this code is reachable only if X is a list" -- the same sort of reasoning is applicable to explicit type checks/typecases 02:44:15 meiji11: yes. 02:44:35 I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that you don't need MOP. 02:44:42 ok. 02:50:00 -!- Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:51:58 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-209-90-147-198.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:53:15 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-232-137.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:50 farzi [~farzzz@1.38.28.139] has joined #lisp 02:57:08 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.200.98] has joined #lisp 02:57:24 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:848a:3085:a8f0:2f3c] has joined #lisp 02:59:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-64-234.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 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[~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:17:46 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:19:31 leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:32 clhs equal 03:22:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_equal.htm 03:25:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:28:09 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:59 *sw2wolf* today i am glad to declare that clisp-threaded make stumpwm message window work normally as CCL and SBCL does. 03:30:27 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:36 -!- pierpa [~user@host2-220-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:32:52 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:36 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:45:03 -!- paddymahoney 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[~k0001@host149.186-109-101.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 05:09:02 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 05:12:50 can anyone remind me how dynamic-extent declarations on function arguments work, and particularly so on method arguments? 05:13:38 -!- leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leb] 05:15:41 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:16:04 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@98.145.119.253] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:16:06 I believe that they apply to the values as per normal, and claim that these values will not be used after the function returns. 05:16:34 But I'm not sure if you can guarantee that for method arguments. 05:18:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:22:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:23:49 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 05:27:29 -!- setheus_ [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:29:38 hi Fare . 05:31:37 leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has joined #lisp 05:32:47 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-167-47.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:48 setheus [~setheus@107-203-153-73.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:47 leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:52 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.71.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:49:02 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 05:50:32 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:50:57 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 05:54:31 -!- ISF_ec09 [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:57:26 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has joined #lisp 05:57:38 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 05:58:25 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 05:59:32 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 05:59:55 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 06:01:50 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 06:02:21 I'm trying to figure out if the following code is valid: (loop for i from 1 to 10 finally (return i)). In other words, is the loop variable valid in the FINALLY clause, and if so, what should it return (10 or 11)? 06:03:19 I believe the answer is yes and 10 06:03:29 but you can try on all lisp implementations using cl-launch 06:03:30 Fare: thought so 06:03:34 so why does SBCL return 11? 06:03:49 abcl returns 11, too 06:04:07 I was confused when I tried to do this, and got a type error: (loop for i of-type (integer 0 10) from 0 to 10 collect i) 06:04:21 I get a type error because i reaches 11 at the end of the loop 06:04:36 it MUST be 11 06:05:00 sw2wolf: I can see how it becomes 11, but why MUST it? 06:05:03 sw2wolf: no. there could be an end test at the loop body's end. 06:05:25 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:05:26 for l in sbcl ccl cmucl alisp lispworks abcl ecl clisp ; do cl-launch -l $l -ip "(format t \"$l ~D~%\" (loop for i from 1 to 10 finally (return i)))" ; done 06:05:31 increased before finally 06:05:44 sw2wolf: but that's not what the spec says 06:06:14 "The loop keyword to marks the end value for stepping[1] supplied in form2" 06:06:25 it says it's the end value. Not end value plus one 06:08:27 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.122.198] has joined #lisp 06:08:32 11 in ccl as well, so if it's against the spec it's a widespread bug 06:08:59 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-122-197.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:09:01 or a bug in the spec 06:09:09 but "for ..." makes it increased ... 06:09:09 or that. 06:09:20 loke: I don't think that type declaration would do any good anyway, though. 06:09:50 can we macroexpand (loop for ... finally ...) ? 06:10:17 Bike: Yeah, I'm not saying it would 06:10:35 pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:52 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-198-45.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:11:03 sw2wolf: it probably expands into the obvious tagbody, checking (> i 10) 06:11:26 sw2wolf: C-c C-m 06:11:30 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136343 06:11:49 yeah, i is increased before finally ? 06:12:09 sw2wolf: it is 06:12:21 the finally part is the SB-LOOP::END-LOOP thing 06:12:23 yes, because it goes (when (> i 10) (go end-loop)) ... end-loop (return i) 06:12:23 sbcl, ccl, cmucl, allegro, abcl, ecl and clisp all agree it's 11 06:12:31 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:12:40 Fare: aren't they all using the same underlying loop implementation? 06:12:46 for l in sbcl ccl cmucl alisp lispworks abcl ecl clisp ; do cl-launch -l $l -i "'(#.(in-package :cl-user) #.(format t \"$l ~D~%\" (loop for i from 1 to 10 finally (return i))))" ; done 06:12:49 No wait. CLISP has its own, right? 06:12:55 Loops like it's a loop bug. :) 06:13:08 i think clisp has its own, but sbcl and cmucl and ecl probably use the same. not sure about ccl 06:13:28 dunno what's specified to happen, though, i've never understood loop 06:13:39 CLISP is 11 too 06:13:52 Bike: The quote I mentioned is the only one that addresses the loop variable content after the loop 06:14:01 it does say it's the "end value" 06:14:19 seems vague. 06:14:24 very 06:15:02 In that macroexpansion, it's interesting the type of I is (integer 0 10) but SBCL allows it to go to 11 06:15:09 Quadrescence: It doesn't 06:15:16 Quadrescence: The type specification is mine 06:15:22 (loop for i of-type (integer 0 10) from 0 to 10 collect i) 06:15:22 oh okay 06:15:26 that's the source form 06:15:31 type declarations are not type checks 06:15:31 ah okay nevermind 06:15:38 Probably dumb question, but is ( normally implemented as a reader macro? 06:15:38 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:39 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:15:53 H4ns, yes but some implementations reasonably turn them into typechecks 06:16:07 nightyfly: It is required to effectively be so implemented. 06:16:14 I wasn't suggesting it was incorrect in the conformance-sense 06:16:33 I suppose this is something that the propellerheads on c.l.l would enjoy discussing :-) 06:17:02 It's a useful obervation. 06:17:10 Quadrescence: type checks are not worth much if you cannot depend on them, so as long as "reasonable" means "sometimes, the type is not precisely checked", such conversions are not worth much 06:17:29 Probably no-one has noticed or cared about it because CL implementations have pretty droopy type systems. 06:18:07 H4ns, Given the right optimization settings (probably safety > speed), can you tell me some instances where I can't rely on SBCL's type checking of declarations? 06:18:38 Quadrescence: no. are you saying that sbcl's type declarations are dependable type checks? 06:19:10 they've been dependably for me so far. just as tail call elimination of locally recursive functions has been dependable. 06:19:15 dependable* 06:19:29 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 06:19:51 Quadrescence: i see, ok. 06:22:24 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.122.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:23:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:23:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:24:46 -!- Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:17 Actually, try the following on SBCL: 06:30:21 (locally (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))) (loop for i of-type (integer 0 10) from 0 to 10 finally (return i))) 06:30:30 This will give you an infinite loop in SBCL 06:32:41 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.192.36] has joined #lisp 06:32:53 disassembly http://paste.lisp.org/display/136345 06:33:38 Yeah, the end check is optimised away 06:33:48 Makes sense. 06:34:03 I posted it on c.l.l: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/5FvMKZXbtNA 06:34:38 You're telling the compiler that `I' will be between 0 and 10 always, so checking if I is > 10 is always NIL (unsafely, of course) 06:35:00 Yes, that's clear. The question is whether or not this behaviour is supported by the standard. 06:35:23 "safety 0" 06:35:48 H4ns: yes, but that should be OK as long as the code is compliant to spec. In my opinion, it is. 06:36:04 I just included that as an example 06:38:22 This line from CLHS "In an iteration control clause, the for or as construct causes termination when the supplied limit is reached." seems to be important, and does not specify that the variable may reach a number higher than the "exclusive limit". 06:38:40 Good point 06:38:54 My current opinion is that all current Lisp implementations are broken. :-) 06:38:57 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:11 -!- stumbles [~stumbles@2001:44b8:41c5:9600:219:d1ff:fe10:f770] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:40:10 k0001_ [~k0001@host15.190-138-116.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:40:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41:02 All CL impl. donot obey the standard ?! 06:41:21 sw2wolf: As incredible as that would sound, yes. 06:41:42 Don't take me wrong. I'd love to find a statement in the CLHS that tells me I'm wrong. 06:41:44 awful 06:43:17 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host149.186-109-101.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:43:28 przl [~przlrkt@ip-2-202-115-174.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 06:43:29 CL has an VERY "old" standard 06:43:43 I don't find anything in the standard that disallows it. 06:44:12 CL standard has been stable for many years 06:44:25 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:44:36 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host15.190-138-116.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:44:47 it seems vaguely enough defined that treating it as a bug in implementations is kind of unnecessary. 06:44:59 *sw2wolf* it shouldnot be CL impl.'s problem 06:45:18 k0001 [~k0001@host84.186-109-102.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:46:34 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.192.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:46:35 Bike: The behavaiour of OF-TYPE is one thing and not that important. The content of the index variable in the FINALLY clause is more important though, in my opinion. 06:47:16 stable as a corpse in a sterile environment. 06:47:45 lol 06:48:39 seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has joined #lisp 06:48:55 Fare: Common Lisp has so many de-facto standards now though. I can't think of any other language that has that many implementations while still having 50% of its functionality standardised by defacto-libraries. 06:49:24 At least better than Prolog 06:49:25 C ? C++ ? Java ? 06:49:41 sh ? 06:50:02 Java has few impl. 06:50:04 loke: I mean, I don't think it's really specified that it'll be 11 or 10, in that case. 06:50:12 Bike: true 06:50:37 But there are certainly times that it's very useful to have it 06:50:38 asdf supports 15 implementations. some are dead. A few new ones are coming. 06:50:51 i feel it is 11, because you need to terminate the loop 06:51:05 (loop for i from 0 while ... finally (i tell me ho wmany times it looped)) 06:51:28 while what ? 06:51:42 something 06:52:11 I guess that would be towards 11. 06:52:17 sth. need to clear before reach finally 06:52:20 (loop for i from 0 for ch = (read-char ...) while ch ... finally (format t "~a chars read" i)) 06:52:45 leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has joined #lisp 06:52:56 It is specified to be at least 10, at least if you read in to 6.1.2.1, end of 6.1.2.1.1, and 6.1.1.4 06:53:33 anyway before finally the loop needs to be terminated 06:53:58 sw2wolf: yes, but it doesn't need to be incremented to terminate the loop 06:54:33 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host84.186-109-102.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:52 in (loop for i from 1 to 10 ...) , (> i 10) is condition to terminate loop 06:55:10 sw2wolf: why would it be? 06:55:12 so i needs to be increase to 11 06:55:20 it can be equivalent to someting like this: 06:55:42 (loop with i = 0 do (incf i) until (= i 10)) 06:55:49 see? i never hits 11 06:56:23 (loop with i = 0 do (incf i) until (= i 10) finally (return i)) => 10 06:56:24 actually, just to be clear, using WITH is different, and that establishes local variables 06:56:31 k0001 [~k0001@host113.186-125-118.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:56:47 equality testing like that would kinda suck with floats. 06:56:55 loke: it is NOT same as the first example 06:57:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.108.223.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:57:02 agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:25 replace = with >= then 06:58:04 Then it would be permissible for the return to be 11.0, kinda pointless 06:58:31 (loop for i = 0 then (incf i) until (> i 10) do (print i)) 06:58:55 Bike, floats are a very good point 06:59:02 loop is awesome! it sparks hours and hours of intellectually fruitful discussions! so many options to be wrong! 06:59:20 clearly we should all just use iterate 06:59:46 (loop for i = 0 then (incf i) until (> i 10) do (print i) finally (return i)) => 11 07:01:17 i think incrementing once more is more consistent for the range of numerical types, as Bike sort of hinted 07:01:35 Here. This will workL 07:01:36 : 07:01:36 (loop with i = 0 for d = 0 then 1 do (incf i d) do (print i) until (>= i 10)) 07:02:09 haha, wacky. 07:02:13 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:02:15 Bike: but it works :-) 07:02:22 and i never goes outside of its bounds 07:03:30 there is obviously another solution, which implies rebinding i on every iteration (i.e. use a different gensymmed variable for the underlying loop index (which of course don't need to follow the type declaration)). That's allowed by the standard. 07:03:40 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:03:48 loke, (loop with i = 0.0 for d = 0.0 then 0.7 do (incf i d) do (print i) until (>= i 1.0) finally (return i)) 07:03:58 this will go out of bounds 07:04:43 Quadrescence: true 07:05:02 so the solution would be this, then: 07:06:08 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-127-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:06:16 argh. can't be bothered to type it. I was thinking of having an internal loop variable typed to 0->(to+step) 07:06:49 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:07:03 i'm thinking whatever your original motivation was has kind of disappeared by this point... 07:07:26 I don't know if this got through: http://codepad.org/kXEAqYpZ 07:07:33 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:07:41 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 07:08:18 Quadrescence: it didn't. but you were spot on :-) 07:08:30 I said this: "argh. can't be bothered to type it. I was thinking of having an internal loop variable typed to 0->(to+step)" 07:08:53 yeah i think you've lost any efficiency gain by the time you're doing that 07:08:58 ck__ [~ck@dslb-088-068-157-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:16 loke, perhaps you should write a CDR reflecting on the scope, but unfortunately surrender your ideal loop and simply describe what current implementations do 07:10:27 bla bla shivers loop bla 07:10:41 :) 07:10:45 Quadrescence: That's probably the solution :-) 07:10:55 (i have no idea if shivers's is used in practice) 07:11:05 And then convince everyone to go back to using DO 07:12:01 apropos loop, can loop bind multiple values? 07:12:17 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:12:37 H4ns, I don't believe so 07:12:54 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 07:13:18 H4ns, neither WITH nor FOR = can 07:13:22 ok, thanks 07:13:25 H4ns: badly 07:13:38 for (a b c) = (multiple-value-list ...) 07:13:50 :) 07:14:02 Fare: I was just typing that :-) 07:14:14 aint nobody got time for consing 07:15:12 I would certainly welcome a LOOP extension: for (a b c) as-values 07:15:47 Quadrescence: pre-standard there used to be a loop extension mechanism 07:15:54 they took it out of the standard. sadly 07:16:03 ccl and sbcl at least both support it 07:16:09 (or, alternatively, for (a b c) being the-value-producing-form of
) 07:16:13 I suspect most other implementations as well 07:16:20 Fare: support what? The extension mechanism? 07:16:22 (minus the - after "the") 07:16:23 and/or you can shadow loop with one that does 07:16:26 yes 07:16:32 yeah, sbcl's loop is extensible, in some crazy way 07:16:59 Bike: where can I read about that? I thought I had read the SBCL manual in its entirety. 07:17:23 sbcl's undocumented wizardry 07:17:26 the source, i guess, i've never looked at it really. maybe it's in cmucl' 07:17:41 nnnnnope 07:17:43 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:50 it's MIT loop. 07:17:59 i just know crhodes did some stuff to get SEQUENCE working with it. 07:18:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@ip-2-202-115-174.web.vodafone.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:36 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:20:43 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 07:20:55 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:59 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:21:07 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 07:22:52 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:24:19 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:24:56 -!- pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has left #lisp 07:30:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-0-41.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:31:46 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:31:49 ogamita [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 07:32:30 anaumov [~an@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 07:38:44 Quadrescence: do you want (loop for (values a b c) = (...)) ? that already exists AFAIK. 07:39:51 flip214, in the standard or as an extension? 07:41:18 flip214, all that does is bind the variable values to the first of the list 07:45:54 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:45:59 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:50:30 pavelpenev [~quassel@194.141.47.12] has joined #lisp 07:50:40 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 07:51:48 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has joined #lisp 07:53:37 perhaps I'm mixing that up with ITERATE. 07:54:05 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 07:55:59 pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:51 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:57:51 Oh man. Totally forgot about (dotimes'32 ...) when golfing yesterday (: 07:58:08 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-gbgnmakmjqxqjkcm] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:00:17 pkhuong: (dotimes '32 (print quote))? where did you golf? 08:01:33 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:51 flip214: (#1=dotimes(i 32)(#1#'32(princ(if(logtest(- .'(ash i -1))i)' ')))(terpri)) shaves two characters off the best we found yesterday. 08:02:35 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: ...] 08:02:55 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:00 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:07 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.70.106] has joined #lisp 08:05:16 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 08:05:58 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:06:40 nice 08:09:53 sadly there's no short way to get the same for a different number of corners 08:11:14 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:11:21 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:11:56 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:44 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:48 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:13:30 -!- leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leb] 08:13:56 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 08:14:15 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:16:18 hmmm, with a small change I get a snowflake. 08:17:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:17:46 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 08:18:27 edgar-rft 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[~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:37:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:38:47 hi 11:38:58 cl-fad on old sbcl says: Symbol "DELETE-DIRECTORY" not found in the SB-EXT package. 11:39:06 is there a known workaround? 11:39:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:39:09 lol 11:39:15 dim: use new sbcl 11:39:34 yes that's one, not easy here, another one? 11:39:37 -!- w|t [~justin@198.23.243.4] has quit [Changing host] 11:39:37 w|t [~justin@unaffiliated/whackatre] has joined #lisp 11:39:48 ErkiS [~erki@86.77.196.88.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 11:40:13 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:15 I mean, how was written sb-ext:delete-directory back in 1.0.38? 11:41:23 -!- nforgerit is now known as crus0e 11:42:15 farzi [~farzzz@1.38.29.129] has joined #lisp 11:42:16 not easy? 11:43:49 Might have been in the posix package? 11:43:59 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has joined #lisp 11:44:11 does posix provide directory deletion? seems to high-level for it 11:44:35 rmdir is a syscall. 11:44:51 but it's not recursive 11:45:13 sb-ext:delete-directory can also recursively delete directories 11:45:21 Ah. I didn't realize that recursion was the critical feature here. 11:45:46 i really have no idea what dim wants, maybe he doesn't need delete-directory at all and just wants to compile cl-fad 11:46:42 and cl:delete-file on sbcl works on directories 11:47:05 should work, i need to check 11:47:24 no, doesn't work, i mixed it with probe-file 11:48:57 -!- ErkiS [~erki@86.77.196.88.sta.estpak.ee] has left #lisp 11:50:28 stassats`: exacly, I don't want delete-directory, I want to compile cl-fad which is a dependency for hunchentoot 11:50:40 so, comment it out and be merry 11:50:47 mmm. 11:50:50 yeah 11:53:47 ok I replaced it unconditionnaly with an (error "") call 11:54:02 it feels very dirty doing that, but sure solve the immediate problem 11:54:04 could be more creative than just "" 11:55:54 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-40-143.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:56:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:55 acieroid` 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12:54:13 Joreji [~thomas@77-21-104-59-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:18 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:848a:3085:a8f0:2f3c] has joined #lisp 13:00:58 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:07 Good morning everyone =) 13:02:42 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:03:53 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:05:38 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 13:06:27 stassats`: yeah, I did use (error "sb-ext:delete-directory is not there in sbcl 1.0.38") actually 13:06:39 but well it's not the message itself that will make the situation cleaner 13:08:18 stassats`: how can I know what functions are included in the sb-ext package? 13:08:28 sb-ext: 13:08:51 (apropos "" :sb-ext) 13:09:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:09:56 stassats`: got it, thanks 13:11:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:12:07 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:12:18 ISF_ec09 [~ivan@143.106.196.186] has joined #lisp 13:12:31 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:40 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has joined #lisp 13:19:07 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:848a:3085:a8f0:2f3c] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:19:16 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:19:44 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:21:38 -!- ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:23:32 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:41 yacks 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[~AndChat38@204.14.12.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:51 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-kbtpqtuwdszrttno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:01:36 -!- Orii [~AndChat38@204.14.12.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:03:34 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:06:35 cfdm [~user@116.126.96.33] has joined #lisp 16:06:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:09:18 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 16:09:33 Xach: did you have a page listing what's most used from quicklisp? I seem to recall seeing it before, but can't find it now. 16:09:43 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 16:11:57 brandonz [~brandon@206.169.144.70] has joined #lisp 16:12:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-21-104-59-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:13:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 foom: i post it to blog.quicklisp.org sometimes 16:13:54 i need to refresh 16:14:22 maligree [~maligree@fedora/maligree] has joined #lisp 16:15:23 -!- brandonz [~brandon@206.169.144.70] has quit [Client Quit] 16:16:44 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:07 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.119] has joined #lisp 16:19:06 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:19:34 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 16:21:14 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:24:48 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:25:28 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.70.87] has joined #lisp 16:26:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.70.87] has quit [Changing host] 16:26:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:26:26 -!- ck__ [~ck@dslb-088-068-157-253.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:39 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-gajfditexffjcbix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:05 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: home] 16:27:53 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:28:10 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:28:39 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 16:28:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003ac6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:28:53 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:33:44 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 16:34:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:34:52 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:37:24 rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-220-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:38 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-220-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:43 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:51 rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:45 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:39:59 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 16:40:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:13 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:43:03 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:57 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Client Quit] 16:45:06 -!- naeg|afk is now known as naeg 16:48:18 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:48:56 blah [4b6706aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.103.6.170] has joined #lisp 16:49:14 hey can anyone tell me how to check if a cons is an alist? 16:49:44 (evenp (length list)) 16:49:53 bah, that's for plists 16:50:09 blah: trust the input 16:50:11 (every #'consp list) then 16:50:51 but the short answer is: don't 16:50:59 agumonke1 [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:20 so if i had (1 . 2), how could I tell that its an alist and not just a list 16:51:30 <_tca> it's neither 16:51:30 cause running a type-of gets me a cons 16:51:46 <_tca> an alist is a list of conses 16:51:47 i meant not an alist but the dotted-pair 16:51:50 the convs 16:51:52 cons 16:52:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:37 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 16:52:46 so theres no easy way to differentiate between (1 . 2) and ( 1 2 )? 16:53:13 their cdr's are different 16:53:22 <_tca> of course there is but its usually a sign you are doing something wrong when you want to check if something is a list 16:53:24 what are you trying to achieve? 16:53:27 <_tca> ^ 16:53:40 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:09 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 16:54:24 ive got a list of lists coming in and I need to know whether or not the elements of that list are lists or dotted pairs 16:54:28 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:14 <_tca> thats not possible reliably in general because what if the second element of the dotted pair is a list blah 16:56:09 beside dotted pairs there's also dotted lists 16:56:10 <_tca> you could check if the cdr is an atom in some very specific case 16:56:33 (every (lambda (x) (listp (last x))) list) 16:57:04 blah: but still, why do you need to check for that? 16:57:43 <_tca> you most likely just want to structure your program differently is why he asks 16:57:51 <_tca> rather than figure out this specific thing 16:58:01 correction: (lambda (x) (listp (cdr (last x)))) 16:59:03 maybe it's a homework? 17:00:34 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:01:23 im writing a printer for and I need to be able to distinguish when im print a list or a dotted list 17:01:45 well, you will do that while printing, not before printing 17:02:26 alright, so how would I check that? 17:02:52 do you know the difference between (x y) and (x . y)? 17:02:54 blah: what does the last cons-cell in a dotted list look like? 17:03:21 if you know it, the answer will be clear to you 17:05:28 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c2751.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:52 a possible hint: how do you construct them when only using CONS? 17:05:52 well when you call cdr on (1 . 2) and (1 2), i get an atom for the first one and a list for the second 17:06:16 but if the cdr of the dotted pair is a list, i cant tell the difference 17:06:26 blah: so what? 17:06:32 blah: just recurse down 17:06:38 blah: are you familiar with the concept of singly linked lists? 17:06:44 yea 17:07:04 (1) has an atom for cdr too 17:07:15 a cons is just a structure with two pointers. this dotted pair stuff is just notation for constructing linked lists out of cons cells 17:07:17 <_tca> no nil isn't an atom 17:07:24 _tca: incorrect 17:07:28 <_tca> am i? 17:07:31 you are 17:07:33 _tca: You are. 17:07:36 _tca: you're wrong 17:07:38 (atom nil) => T 17:07:44 _tca: atom = not cons. 17:08:19 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:08:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d10c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:57 I think not enough introductory texts emphasize the plain-old-linked-list nature of these things 17:09:10 (1 . nil) 17:09:17 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 17:09:43 dlowe: I don't remember what text I read, but it demonstrated conses as pairs, and showed lists first as (1 . (2 . (3 . nil))) 17:10:04 jasom: I found that thoroughly confusing when I first tried lisp 17:10:08 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:46 dlowe: well it made it clear to me it was a linked-list anyway 17:11:03 dlowe: though I can see how it wouldn't for many people 17:11:19 well screw it, I'm just going to use cdr if its a list then its not a dotted list and if it is an atom, its a dotted pair 17:12:01 blah: the last cdr in any non-circular list is an atom always 17:12:21 blah: doesn't work with (1) 17:12:27 blah: (atom (cdr (list 1))) => T 17:12:41 jasom: do circular lists have last cdrs? 17:12:43 jasom: it clicked, I think, when I saw a diagram with boxes and arrows 17:12:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:09 stassats`: that doesn't matter for my sentence to be true 17:13:55 then could I use listp on the cdr of the list 17:13:55 stassats`: maybe "a non-circular list always terminates in an atom" would be a better way to put it 17:14:06 dlowe: Well, Successful Lisp puts that right on the cover for you ;) 17:14:08 s/in/with 17:14:23 and ill check if the cdr returns nil 17:14:38 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:15:06 blah if cdr is an atom, it's dotted, if cdr is nil, it's not if cdr is a list, you have more work to do 17:15:24 s/list/cons 17:15:37 yeah if it returns a list or NIL I pass it to my list printer 17:15:38 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:46 cause at that point I know its not an dotted pair 17:15:47 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:15:48 if cdr is nil, game over, print a ), if it's an atom, print a dot, if it's a cons, carry on 17:16:24 alright that seems about right. 17:16:25 Thanks 17:16:34 is that a homework? 17:17:07 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 17:17:31 blah: also nil is a list btw 17:17:46 nil is a list and an atom, but not a cons 17:18:16 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:33 nah its not homework, i've gotta write a printer 17:19:51 blah: is #'print not good enough? 17:20:03 (or prin1 or princ or ... 17:20:55 well the problem is that we're dealing with huge structs that we need to serialize and throw between comps 17:21:28 blah http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-store/ 17:21:41 we were just using a modified write-to-string, but ran into the 512 mb limit for the string limit 17:22:19 blah: write to a file or a socket? 17:22:28 write to a file 17:22:43 I mean to get around the string limit 17:23:11 *jasom* isn't sure why you'd want to write to a string for sending it between a comp, unless you have shared-memory or something 17:23:25 why are you using write-to-string? 17:23:43 to store it in a file 17:23:51 i looked at using the fasl file 17:23:56 but its just too slow 17:23:58 have you tried to writing to a file directly? 17:24:12 well its not the write side of things, but the reader 17:24:33 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 17:24:37 your problem description keep changing 17:24:54 ok 17:24:58 we've got huge structs 17:25:02 like in the gigabytes of memory 17:25:21 we need to pass it over the network 17:25:34 so we were using write to string and read-from-string 17:25:41 so open a socket on both ends and use prin1 directly to the socket 17:25:59 and read on the other side 17:26:16 well the read on the other side was too slow 17:26:38 it was running into doing vector-push-extend or rehashing on million member arrays/hashes 17:27:29 so the idea is that we're still going to write line by line, but have our own reader on the other end that preallocates the sizes based on headers that we write 17:27:38 and read line by line 17:27:56 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:28:21 that doesn't make sense 17:29:08 how is read-from-string faster than simple read? they do the same thing 17:29:41 its not 17:30:09 so we've built our own reader that passes line by line to read 17:30:33 and if its a hash/array/list, we have a custom detour to preallocate 17:30:41 instead of passing it to the reader 17:30:48 ParanoidSP [0e8ba006@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.139.160.6] has joined #lisp 17:30:50 *read 17:31:32 I would be surprised if preallocating a list were much faster 17:31:47 well it wasnt the list that we were worried about, just the arrays and hashes 17:31:55 so, why don't you write or use a proper serialization then? 17:31:57 Anyway, have you tried cl-store? I think it does something like that 17:32:27 don't half-ass your serialisation system. 17:32:57 if it's gigabytes, you'll also save a lot of space with a good one 17:33:06 space/traffic 17:33:19 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:20 would cl-store be able to handle this? 17:33:25 cl-store seems quick and easy. More work would be using protobufs, but you might get much better compression. 17:34:02 alright, I'm going to go see what I can do quickly with cl-store. If that doesnt work then its back to the custom reader 17:34:20 blah: it already preallocates arrays; it's also easily extensible so you can tweak anything that casues issues 17:34:20 but don't use a lispy reader, better do a binary one 17:34:43 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.59.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:52 i didn't find cl-store particularly efficient in terms of space or performance, but it's better then the lisp reader, naturally 17:34:59 i know we should be using a binary one, but this is only the first iteration and we need to get it done fast 17:35:55 thanks for your help, time to go see what cl-store can do 17:37:45 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:37:50 stassats`: cl-store + general-purpose compression is reasonable 17:38:34 what about using cl-marshal? 17:39:01 https://github.com/wlbr/cl-marshal 17:39:29 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.40] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:40:11 blah: a quick look makes it look like it puts the whole serialization in RAM, which is not as good as writing directly to a stream 17:40:22 ram is not a problem 17:40:28 we've got 128 gb rams 17:40:48 *ram 17:40:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:40:53 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:41:51 and it also goes through the lisp-reader which will be a performance hit 17:42:01 ah 17:42:05 that would be the problem 17:42:11 does cl-store do the same 17:42:12 ? 17:42:17 no 17:42:38 blah: how often do you need transfer the data? 17:42:49 have you thought about saving an image and transferring it? 17:42:53 and like I said, cl-store is quite easy to extend, so if there's something that is causing performance hits, then you can tweak it 17:43:03 as often as possible 17:43:20 alright, then it's not an option 17:43:29 its probably gonna be constantly transfering 17:43:46 well, then you're gonna need an ad-hoc binary protocol 17:43:53 if you want to save on traffic and time 17:44:12 -!- ParanoidSP [0e8ba006@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.139.160.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:19 cl-store will at least get you better than prin1/read and you can be up and running in about 30 seconds with it 17:44:38 but yes, stassats` is right for the long run 17:44:55 how well will it work with structs instead of objects? 17:44:59 Xach: ah yes, I see the one for October 2012. 17:45:05 for the long run we will be running a binary protocol 17:45:33 or reduce the amount of transfers, and synchronize only the changed parts 17:45:48 or better, both 17:49:12 -!- blah [4b6706aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.103.6.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:29 cl-store works fine on structures 17:49:58 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 17:50:00 IIRC it's not any more efficient than objects, but it works 17:50:29 -!- groovy2shoes [~cory@unaffiliated/groovebot] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:52:14 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 17:53:39 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 17:54:12 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:54:48 blah [4b6706aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.103.6.170] has joined #lisp 17:56:22 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 17:57:42 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:58:12 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:50 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 17:59:21 related to list serialization, in my object storage, each object is tagged, so a list is saved as ......, then there are special tags, 255, end of list, and 254, end of dotted list 18:00:05 so, for proper list it's car-datacar-data<255>, and for dotted: car-datacar-data<254>cdr-data 18:00:20 rather, <254>cdr-data 18:00:34 cool, im running a test now for a 1b size hash table, so i'll see if cl-store can handle it 18:00:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:01:25 if it can then thats cl-store will be our serializer 18:05:05 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 18:05:50 wow 18:05:54 cl-stores fking awesome 18:05:57 thanks a ton 18:06:00 leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:03 np 18:06:18 just stored a 5mill hash table with random data in 7 seconds 18:06:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.70.87] has joined #lisp 18:06:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.70.87] has quit [Changing host] 18:06:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:06:23 and read it back in under 20 18:06:34 *stassats`* tries to this on his storage 18:06:48 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 18:08:58 0.323 sec for writing, 0.492 seconds for reading, a 5 000 000 element hashtble with keys and values from 0 to 5000000 18:09:43 what sort of storage are you using lol? 18:10:32 cl-store on the same ht: 2.342 seconds write 2.7 seconds read 18:10:44 blah: my own 18:10:53 well dam, care to share? 18:11:32 but it doesn't do some things which cl-store does, like sharing of things which are not clos objects 18:11:41 i mean cl-store works perfectly for us, but yours seems extremely fast 18:11:51 well we're only using structs, no cl-objects 18:12:21 my storage is not really an end solution, it's rather mended for my needs 18:12:32 it doesn't store structures at all, but could be adapted for that 18:12:49 lol alright, cl-store will do 18:12:51 and it's optimized for SBCL 18:12:57 but the code is here https://github.com/stassats/storage 18:13:19 eh running lw 18:14:19 and the file size is twice smaller for mine than for cl-store, for that test 18:16:56 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:58 even on CCL, for which it is not optimized, my thing is still twice as fast as cl-store 18:17:35 well, just saying that you can do better than cl-store 18:18:44 yeah, as long as we can get it to handle huge structs in a reasonable amount of time/size itll be good. Cl-store looks perfect 18:19:27 i don't really store hashtables, otherwise i think it can be even more optimized on SBCL 18:19:38 exploiting internals, that is 18:21:00 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-zqoqgwxwxsvwsedl] has joined #lisp 18:23:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:25:19 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@113.14.61.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:54 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:07 -!- blah [4b6706aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.103.6.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:28:31 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 18:29:14 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 18:30:34 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:31:54 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 18:32:53 -!- cfdm [~user@116.126.96.33] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:33 Bike [~Glossina@65-100-35-121.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:16 So, say you're writing something and you find out there's already a C implementation; how do you decide if it's better to just FFI to the C version or finish writing it in lisp? 18:35:39 be smug, don't even consider the C version 18:37:46 -!- ISF_ec09 [~ivan@143.106.196.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:40:04 blah [4b6706aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.103.6.170] has joined #lisp 18:40:06 im smug! 18:40:16 `whois smug.im` ;) 18:40:24 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:40:41 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:41:22 No match for domain "SMUG.IM". 18:41:54 well, can I suggest finding a new DNS ? 18:42:17 *drewc* checks from many machines in many countries to make sure ... 18:43:09 http://reports.internic.net/cgi/whois?whois_nic=smug.im&type=domain 18:43:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:43:48 i got nothing either. 18:44:09 Crampsie Drew shows up with networksolutions 18:44:17 what country is .im anyway? 18:44:23 well, odd, it seems what my old `whois` from 2007 does not get it, but my new one does . 18:44:44 Isle of Man? Is that even a country? 18:44:46 jasom: isle of man. 18:44:49 it's part of the UK. 18:45:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:45:21 I knew we should have named the USA the UCA (united countries of america) then we'd have 50 more TLDs 18:45:36 it's a crown dependency! 18:45:52 oh, it's not part of the UK, it's a self-governing dependency 18:46:11 there are countries and states ... the USA is a country full of states, not a state full of countries :) 18:46:16 so scotland and wales and england don't have TLDs 18:46:19 the day i understand all the things the queen is in charge of is a day that won't happen 18:46:38 jasom: i think there are people from all three who want onen. 18:46:43 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:46:43 wait why didnt the us allocate tlds per state? they let the universities do it? 18:47:07 US states have second-level domains. 18:47:08 what is the TLD of Northern Ireland? ;) 18:47:15 ah that makes sense 18:47:31 UK constituent states are somewhat different from US states, though. 18:47:47 Yea, but the registration policy of the .us domain was so dumb for so long, people gave up on it. 18:48:12 I think I have one just b/c it was so cheap 18:48:23 (a .us that is) 18:48:49 anyway .com is the US TLD 18:49:07 Bike: who votes for the polical leader of the USA, the President ... it is the states, not the voters! :P 18:49:07 eldariof [~CLD@215-134-158-212.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #lisp 18:49:38 drewc: The Senators used to be that way too 18:50:03 So there was an entire house of the legistlature that was appointed by the states 18:50:04 -!- Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:50:36 so on topic! 18:51:19 well, I am sorry for having a domain for smug. I will shut the foo up now :) 18:53:02 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.209.72] has joined #lisp 18:53:16 Greetings! 18:53:56 Can anyone there help me with postmodern? 18:54:22 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:54:57 *drewc* wishes he knew where "there" is, for he is here and knows a wee bit about PoMo. 18:55:27 Ah, my English is bad. =( 18:58:24 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:58:40 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:41 Okay, here is the question: I have a DAO with some timestamp slot. Slot default value (set with :col-default) is (:now). When I add DAO to database, all goes fine, but when I try to change it (first I get it with GET-DAO and then I modify some value in instance and do UPDATE-DAO), it throws a error saying that column value is timestamp and I'm trying to set it to bignum. What am I doing wrong? 18:58:47 hitecnologys: no worries, I can help and ma francais, c'est pas tres bien, alors ... :) 18:59:22 you are trying to set a timestamp to a bignum? 18:59:44 Nope, I don't modify timestamp slot. 19:00:13 -!- pokes [~pp@pokes.xxx] has left #lisp 19:00:51 Wait a minute, I'll paste the code. 19:00:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:00 hrm ... well, heh ... I likely cannot help you there because the modern DAO was written after I wrote and used my own, so I do not use it... but ... 19:01:15 archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 19:01:20 yeah. paste.lisp.org please, that will help :) 19:02:29 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:31 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:02:58 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:05:57 Code is bad (I'll refactor it later), but it works somehow: http://paste.lisp.org/display/136351 =P 19:06:43 I get error when UPDATE-DAO is executed. 19:07:55 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboe193.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:08:32 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:09:16 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 19:09:50 hitecnologys: interesting... and the defclass creates a function called GET-STORY ? 19:09:54 Added error text as annotation. 19:10:21 drewc: nope, I wrote it on my own, but it works correctly, I've tested it already. 19:10:58 -!- ravster [~ravi@71-19-174-130.dedicated.allstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:11:44 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:11:46 Damn, my in-brain translator is broken. s/on my own/by myself/ 19:13:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:13:27 I've already googled this, if someone interested, but found only on question with the same problem. It was unresolved, btw. 19:13:40 only one* 19:14:17 ravster [~ravi@71-19-174-130.dedicated.allstream.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:28 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:19:46 Nobody here had the same problem? 19:21:17 hitecnologys: nobody has written that code exactly the same, so same problem is unlikely. ;) 19:21:56 what happens if : (postmodern:update-dao (get-story story-id)) ? 19:22:00 The problem is that prostmodern returns bignum in timestamp slot when DAO is requested. 19:22:09 why? 19:22:23 drewc: I don't know. That is the question, actually. 19:22:27 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-13-180.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:28 drewc: Database error 42804: column "update_date" is of type timestamp without time zone but expression is of type bigint 19:25:08 why? having never seen get-story and having no idea what it does, why it is setting a timestamp slot to an integer? 19:26:27 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:26:40 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:26:43 drewc: it's just an alias for (postmodern:get-dao 'story story-id) 19:28:10 _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:10 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:28:10 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:31:04 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 19:32:31 ok, and all the tables in the database have that value and you do not care about (:type (:now) timestamp) when you are using (:now) ? 19:34:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35:09 drewc: aww... didn't understand the question. =| 19:36:07 drewc: I'm just a moron. Could you say it... simpler? 19:36:24 sorry, mis'spoke' there ... do all the 'story's in the database have that value? 19:36:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:36:34 drewc: yep. 19:36:48 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 19:36:50 -!- spacefrogg_ is now known as spacefrogg 19:38:18 drewc: I've already thought about replacing timestamp with string, but (:extract) are so good that I can't just throw it away. =( 19:38:32 ok, and (:limit (:select 'update-date :from stories) 1) returns what? 19:38:40 why would you want a string? 19:39:00 drewc: string won't cause any problems obviously. 19:41:02 it won't? well then I have no solutions for you then ... if in your code TEXT is treated the same as TIMESTAMP, well, then go for it?! 19:41:06 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:23 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:41 drewc: aww, sorry, I didn't mean that. 19:42:15 drewc: I meant that I just wanted to give up and throw update-date away. 19:42:57 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:21 drewc: if I didn't screw up, then (:limit (:select 'update-date :from 'stories) 1) => ((3573341010)) 19:45:01 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:45:49 -!- archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:28 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:47:04 so, it is a bignum, not a timestamp... why? 19:47:30 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:55 drewc: if I knew that, I woundn't ask. 19:49:49 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:53 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:09 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 19:51:09 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-185.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:12 hitecnologys: fair enough, it is just that : 19:51:25 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:36 (with-adb (postmodern:query (:limit (:select 'open-date :from 'claim) 1))) => ((#)) ... so ... 19:51:59 Hm... 19:52:17 what does "(find-package :simple-date)" return? 19:52:31 nil 19:52:34 Lol 19:52:37 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 19:54:05 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:54:25 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-189-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:49 and so, what is the problem? ;) 19:55:59 patrickwonders2 [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:09 -!- patrickwonders2 [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:20 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:01 -!- leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leb] 19:57:29 drewc: wow, Pass: 16 (100%). Thanks, man. You're awesome. 19:59:19 hitecnologys: http://beta.common-lisp.net/contribute.html if you want the thank me proper lol :). I am glad it worked out, and hopefully http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/s-sql.html#types tells you what the actual problem was 20:00:16 drewc: I've just thought that simple-date is a component of postmodrn, not another package. 20:00:53 postmodern* 20:01:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 20:01:17 Okay, puzzle is solved, so now it's time to go to bed. 20:01:23 Goodbye everyone! 20:01:25 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.209.72] has quit [Quit: zzz] 20:03:18 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:03:39 sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:04:37 -!- blah [4b6706aa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.103.6.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:05:08 leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:31 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 20:07:49 -!- leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:11 toekutr 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[~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:57 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:04 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 20:57:17 -!- leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leb] 20:58:10 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:37 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:43 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:59:06 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@111.161.47.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:12 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 21:03:00 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-2-150-10.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 21:04:35 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: !!!!] 21:05:17 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:07:03 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:53 leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:58 -!- leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11:28 yay! just came up with the name for my Common Lisp book that I started to write around 2009 ... "PNAD: Paradigms of Network Application Development" ... http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pnad :D 21:12:02 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:14:10 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:52 drewc: I thought it was a gonads reference. 21:15:03 sykopomp: exactly! 21:15:34 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:15:45 -!- eldariof [~CLD@215-134-158-212.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [] 21:15:45 hence, both memorable and somewhat 'dirty' ... yet required ... like CL :D 21:16:40 drewc: the bad boy of #lisp 21:16:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:18:11 dioxirane [~lqcd@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:18:29 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 21:18:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:18:39 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:18:53 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ssjblieiysypblti] has joined #lisp 21:18:53 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ssjblieiysypblti] has quit [Changing host] 21:18:53 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 21:18:54 well, my naming scheme is somewhat odd ... 'bad boy', I do not know ... "B-tree and Derivations Because Others Yellow" ? 21:20:37 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:33 -!- dioxirane [~lqcd@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 21:24:06 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:25:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:43 there's already FUCC, so I think anything goes when it comes to naming 21:29:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:30:34 that's nothing, the lua 2d game engine LÖVE has the best named libraries: https://www.love2d.org/wiki/Category:Libraries 21:31:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:31:10 -!- ellusioner [ellusioner@c-411ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 21:32:39 is there a function similar to xpath:map-node-set->list, but that returns a vector instead of an array? 21:33:04 s/instead of an array/instead of a list/ 21:33:16 because for now I'm mapping the list into a vector, and this is not pretty 21:34:03 Denommus: COERCE ? 21:36:28 anxt [~user@64.141.19.175] has joined #lisp 21:36:32 drewc: worked well for me. Thanks 21:37:24 (loop for hostname in '(web dev nagios) do (defcommand 'stump-hostname () () "run an urxvt instance" (run-or-raise "urxvtc -T hostname -e sh -c 'ssh -p2022 hostname.foohost.com'" '(:title "hostname")))) 21:37:31 Denommus: no worries, I (coerce list 'cl:string) a wee bit, so happen to know all about it. 21:37:48 i would like to have the value hostname is bound to plugged into the places it appears in said loop. 21:38:00 anxt: paste.lisp.org, please do not litter the channel with code. 21:38:03 this is in common lisp. 21:38:08 anxt: what does QUOTE do? 21:38:32 drewc: is QUOTE a function or macro? 21:38:39 clhs quote 21:38:40 special operator 21:38:49 xani [~user@178.183.158.179.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 21:39:27 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.61.229] has joined #lisp 21:39:49 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-myimhsmchviquuwz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:08 anxt: if you ever have questions about CL related stuff, the first place to look is the specification : 21:40:10 http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/s_quote.htm 21:40:22 handling XPath is a bit ugly. But I think it is ugly in any language 21:40:24 hmm, aparently i have hung my slime 21:40:27 anxt: likely you'd want to put this into a macro, that expands into a series of constructed defcommand forms. 21:40:53 anxt: M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp 21:41:09 (macrolet ((host (hostname) `(defcommand ... 21:41:26 Denommus: not a good idea of that lisp is running the WM. 21:41:29 no inferior lisp process. i guess it must have died 21:41:30 *if 21:41:30 That's T-Shirt material: "Apparently, I've hung my slime." 21:41:36 Denommus: yeah, I use it myself because it is a simple way to select the right XML tags etc, but I agree that it is a bit ugly. better then DOM though. 21:43:18 is QUOTE the same as ' ? 21:43:27 yep. 21:43:34 anxt: yes 21:43:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@194.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:43:36 hmm, already tried that. 21:43:52 anxt: is anxt``` in #stumpwm you? 21:44:14 Bike: yeah, i imagine so. is it a shawcable hostname? 21:44:21 probably my emacs at home 21:44:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:44:55 Bike: oh, stumpwm? I didn't know 21:46:22 -!- xan___ [~xan@80.174.78.209.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:46:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:46:26 i think i actually look to unQUOTE 21:46:33 don't i want to eval the variable? 21:46:54 you want a macro. 21:46:57 at macroexpand time? 21:47:04 anxt: yeah seems like you could do well with a macrolet and backquote. i was gonna paste code for you, but that might be nicer in #stumpwm rather than here. 21:47:06 ok i will google macrolet and such 21:47:20 or just a top level macro, i suppose. 21:47:20 ok i will join #stumpwm 21:47:26 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has joined #lisp 21:48:27 anxt: when you blah blah blah, spec : http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 21:51:32 bananagram [~notabot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:01 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:54:00 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.61.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:54:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:54:41 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.131.2] has joined #lisp 21:55:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:58:13 leb [~leb@c-24-7-83-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:05 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:00:10 hiato [~nine@41-133-205-146.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:00:48 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.131.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:00:54 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:01:22 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:30 -!- Borbus_ is now known as Borbus 22:02:07 -!- Aperman [~lauri@85-23-20-41.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:16 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:06:42 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:08 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200-150-182-201.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08:01 - 22:08:18 | - | 22:09:35 *drewc* actually has a (smug:let* ((|
| (line)) ...) because it made sense at the time 22:10:13 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboh56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:11:16 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboh56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:11:35 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:11 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:13:15 -!- patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:24 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aboh56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:13:43 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:48 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboh56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:14:43 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:53 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.237.54] has joined #lisp 22:15:35 i need to tidy up a wordpress blog's database (mysql) any suggestions on what I might use to casually map it into something CLOS friendly  or should I just roll my own? 22:16:32 drewc: I have |{x s.t. ... }| in some places ;) 22:18:37 bhyde: tables with rows and columns are different from CLOS objects by a lot... so while csql or something probably has the ORM you may desire, rolling your own is likely a timesaver, for rows are not objects and columns not slots. 22:19:12 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 22:19:44 pkhuong: ah good, not alone! though, "s.t." ... that looks like `(,s . (,t . nil)) to me :) 22:19:58 drewc - indeed :)  but a man can dream can't he? 22:20:37 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:53 bhyde: if you want a dream, then use ORM! I might say that it would be a nightmare for me, but heh, dreams are dreams! :D 22:21:19 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 22:21:20 -!- xani [~user@178.183.158.179.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:23 and, I know a wee bit too much about that side of things. 22:22:18 -!- crus0e [~crus0e@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: crus0e] 22:22:29 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:22:48 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:50 *bhyde* so many choices  http://cliki.net/Database 22:23:58 bhyde: http://common-lisp.net/project/lisp-on-lines/repo/relational-objects-for-lisp/ I started it in 2008 IIRC ... so I can recommend rolling your own, because ORM is a good thing if you already created your database to not be SQL at all ;) 22:25:24 *bhyde* is convinced to set put down the ORM and back away :) 22:27:02 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:27:31 bhyde: phew! I either did the right thing or completely wrong, but you will likely not find out until you try to do ORM and realize how good/bad it is 22:29:08 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.237.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:31:05 drewc: my experience to date has been that ORM only works if you start with the O and add the RM only because people do love their RM 22:32:14 patrickwonders [~pat@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:46 *jasom* has (|"| 22:34:46 bhyde: I agree fwiw, hence my "ORM is a good thing if you already created your database to not be SQL at all" statement. Objects are not rows, and though hash tables may be tables with a primary key, well, lists and arrays to hold the rows of there is no pkey? not so much fun and uses one hell of a lot of RAM 22:34:49 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.214.151] has joined #lisp 22:35:04 -!- patrickwonders is now known as pat 22:35:17 -!- pat [~pat@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:23 michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-64-61.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:29 -!- hiato [~nine@41-133-205-146.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 22:39:47 -!- michaelusa [~yaaic@66-87-64-61.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:09 *bhyde* joy: Undefined function clsql-sys::|view-class-slot-autoincrement-sequence| called with arguments (# bhyde: caplitaliztion? 22:42:13 capitalization even 22:42:54 jasom: that was my reward for doing (ql:quickload "clsql-mysql") in ccl 22:43:08 yikes 22:43:24 looks like someone messed up trying to modernize lisp 22:43:37 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.33.105] has joined #lisp 22:44:06 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:31 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:44:36 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host137.190-229-163.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:45:06 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c2751.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:18 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-zqoqgwxwxsvwsedl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:48:04 -!- emma is now known as em 22:48:29 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 22:48:30 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:49:22 mutley89 [~mutley89@host86-140-53-114.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:43 patrickwonders [~Patrick@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 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quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:03:28 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 23:04:19 Czechton [~Czechton@cpc8-lewi14-2-0-cust162.2-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:28 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-13-180.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:06:44 -!- patrickwonders [~Patrick@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:43 Anyone know of a basic regex implementation for lisp (think grep compatible) 23:10:07 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 23:10:37 not sure what you mean by "basic", and PPCRE is pretty much the go-to... 23:10:52 Bike: by basic I mean compatible with grep 23:11:21 I found about 8 or 9 perl compatible ones 23:12:12 maybe it would be easier to write a parser for posix regex strings to ppcre parse trees. 23:12:24 that's what I'm thinking 23:12:36 there are a lot of sharp corners there though 23:13:21 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/doc/com.informatimago.common-lisp.regexp.regexp-posix.html looks like pjb wrote something. 23:14:06 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-054.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:14:23 NOT COMPLETE YET. 23:15:12 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.83.245] has joined #lisp 23:15:15 well hey, neither's your parser, right 23:15:23 mparker has a regex engine that does not state what syntax it uses 23:17:16 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 23:18:32 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:25:38 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.143.150.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:22 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:32 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:56 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.83.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:27:19 I think I'll just go with parsing to cl-ppcre's scanner parse-tree 23:27:32 http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/basedefs/xbd_chap09.html#tag_09_03_05 <-- that's the only odd part 23:28:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:29:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:47 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:11 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:36:07 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:38 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-116.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:11 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 23:40:43 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.231.236] has joined #lisp 23:41:38 bhyde 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