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-!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:37:19 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:45:46 v_ [~v@114.112.255.154] has joined #lisp 01:49:36 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:51:25 -!- v_ [~v@114.112.255.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:52:57 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 01:53:55 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 01:55:36 momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.76] has joined #lisp 02:04:04 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 02:06:03 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.240] has joined #lisp 02:07:54 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:11:00 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:15:33 -!- replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:22:10 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:26:48 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:27:05 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.212.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:27:56 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.212.16] has joined #lisp 02:28:40 -!- momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:45 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:32:21 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:33:51 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:34:02 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 02:36:15 *Xach* wishes for slime-kill-definition or similar to delete the method at point 02:37:34 mallory [~chatzilla@42.120.72.184] has joined #lisp 02:38:23 -!- mallory [~chatzilla@42.120.72.184] has quit [Client Quit] 02:38:33 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:38:35 How about it, internet? 02:38:46 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:39:01 like, the method-defining form? 02:39:06 mallory [~chatzilla@42.120.72.184] has joined #lisp 02:39:40 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:41:16 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:44:50 aye 02:44:57 Well, no. 02:45:12 Maybe the form, but mostly removing it from the GF without going through the inspector. 02:45:26 or fmakunbound if it's a plain defun 02:45:56 This is probably already in slime and I forgot how to do it 02:47:46 -!- moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:21 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:30 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:57:30 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:42 hammersbang [~hammersba@modemcable089.123-162-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined 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has joined #lisp 04:21:44 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:22:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:34:08 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 04:37:51 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:38:43 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:40:27 seangrove [~user@125.142.7.125] has joined #lisp 04:42:46 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-zuexpofwighgmxnc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:42:54 -!- ncw [ncw@conference/pycon/x-xqgubvdoxsvxlinn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:31 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:55 Can i make slime enter the specified package once slime-connect successfully ? Now i have to call (in-package :Foo) after slime-connect ? 04:53:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:16 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:07 -!- mallory [~chatzilla@42.120.72.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:55:42 -!- ikki [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ikki] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:57:24 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:57:59 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:25 sw2wolf: yea, that works 04:58:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:53 or if you have exported something from the package you can call the exported thing via (whatever:function-name inputs) 05:02:01 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:04:06 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 05:04:28 abeaumont: can it be automatical instead of calling (in-package :Foo) manually ? 05:05:53 probably (setf *package* :foo) in a config somewhere 05:06:43 Bike: i will searching where it is ... 05:08:42 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:09:21 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:09:33 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 05:09:53 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:11:40 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:12:05 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:12:26 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.22.249] has joined #lisp 05:12:41 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.22.249] has quit [Changing host] 05:12:41 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:15:46 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:22 -!- joe9 [~user@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:02 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:25:41 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 05:30:07 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 05:31:49 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:34:07 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 05:34:39 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.212.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:38:00 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:39:48 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:44:23 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 05:54:02 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:57:27 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 05:58:57 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 05:59:30 -!- akovalen` [~user@95.72.44.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:00:00 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:35 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:18:55 Gooder [~user@192.200.153.69] has joined #lisp 06:20:06 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.203.124] has left #lisp 06:21:47 oticat` [~oticat@1-164-209-151.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:27 -!- tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:24:31 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:24:52 tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 06:25:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has joined #lisp 06:25:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has quit [Changing host] 06:25:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:31:44 teggi [~teggi@113.172.59.16] has joined #lisp 06:31:52 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 06:35:30 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 06:37:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:55 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:42:51 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:43:00 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:43:52 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 06:43:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:46:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:47:36 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 06:52:59 dt770 [dt770@c-411ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:55:23 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:02:50 mallory [~chatzilla@42.120.72.184] has joined #lisp 07:04:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:06:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:07:33 xecycle [~user@2001:da8:8000:e104:ca0a:a9ff:fe72:7a0d] has joined #lisp 07:07:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:08:11 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:23 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.103] has joined #lisp 07:09:49 Hello, I just installed GSLL via quicklisp in sbcl, but sbcl would compile the whole library every time I evaluate (require :gsll) the first time in an sbcl session. I don't remember such behaviour before, what's wrong here? 07:12:27 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 07:15:03 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:09 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:20:30 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:20:38 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:22:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:23:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:28:08 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:28:21 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 07:31:54 Hmm, I noticed something like "ASDF-TMP-file-name.fasl written", but no such file there. Is this the cause? 07:34:08 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 07:34:22 -!- xecycle [~user@2001:da8:8000:e104:ca0a:a9ff:fe72:7a0d] has left #lisp 07:37:59 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:38:29 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 07:38:43 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:41:05 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-217-7-89.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:41:21 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.103] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:42:01 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2ccc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:16 momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.75] has joined #lisp 07:42:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:46:19 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 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has joined #lisp 10:20:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:35 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has joined #lisp 10:21:01 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip174-67-209-198.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:21:24 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:28:35 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-101-125.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:30:45 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 10:31:45 dim: have a look at com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.sequence:replace-subseq (documentation 'com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.sequence:replace-subseq 'function) 10:33:46 (setf subseq) only works without changing the size. 10:33:54 antgreen [~green@dsl-209-90-147-198.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 10:34:13 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 10:35:12 Bike: (setf *package* :foo) doesn't work, *package* must be a PACKAGE, not a designator. (setf *package* (or (find-package :foo) *package*)) could do. 10:35:25 But then, (in-package :foo) is shorter. 10:35:34 (not counting the eval-when needed). 10:38:00 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.209.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:43:36 sw2wolf: you can type C-c M-p to select a package in slime, you then have tab completion on package names 10:47:06 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.209.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:47:30 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-251-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:48:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:54:16 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit 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[~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:14 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 12:06:08 does anyone know of a p-adic arithmetic (even if only for a single p) package in CL? 12:07:14 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:19 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:19 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:09:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0027fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:13:01 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has joined #lisp 12:13:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:13 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host closed the connection] 12:54:07 antgreen [~green@dsl-209-90-147-198.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 12:56:46 is there a way to change the type of a stream later on? 12:56:58 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:57:00 no 12:57:03 Some implementations let you do that. 12:57:25 There are also bivalent streams as provided by flexi-streams. 12:57:38 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:45 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:04 and iolib 12:58:28 webos [~webos@cst-prg-80-252.cust.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 13:00:18 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 13:02:05 and there's no way to "clone" a stream, right? I'd need two (or more) independent streams later on, with different file positions. 13:02:16 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.106] has joined #lisp 13:02:36 no, there isn't 13:02:40 open a new one 13:03:24 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has joined #lisp 13:03:28 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-209-90-147-198.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:03:52 stassats: isn't that easy if the stream is provided by some other process, eg. cl-archive and similar. 13:04:13 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 13:04:22 I'd hoped that I can get independent "views" on the same data (buffered in memory, of course) 13:04:24 knob [~anon@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 13:04:25 Good morning everyone =) 13:04:40 the easy way is to open it twice 13:04:55 bitonic [~user@dyn1231-148.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:04:59 well, I could try to do that via reading in memory and with-input-from-string ... 13:05:12 if it's cl-archive, it's even harder, the decoded data is long gone, you need to decompress it again 13:05:25 stassats: opening twice isn't that easy if it's a TAR inside a GZIP inside a ZIP or something like that. 13:05:33 -!- webos [~webos@cst-prg-80-252.cust.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:05:45 stassats: yes, I'd need to keep the decoded things in RAM. 13:05:47 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 13:05:48 what are you really trying to do? 13:06:39 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:55 I want to get the basic presentation of data, ie. simple text (or binary, in the worst case). If I get a .zip, and there's a .gz in it, and then I find a tar header ... how should I unpack that? 13:07:02 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:18 cl-archive provides a callback with a stream - I'd have to look inside, to decide how/when to decompress further. 13:07:54 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:08:18 .gz inside .zip? how quaint 13:08:51 just think about a few libreoffice files in a zip ... 13:09:10 that's zip inside zip. 13:09:11 *pkhuong* sends flip214 a zip bomb. 13:09:22 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:47 pkhuong: I'm aware of that. I thought about using amavis or similar things on a tmpfs, and simply taking data from there. 13:10:02 i'm still unclear what you're trying to do, if you have two zips, unzip one, then another 13:10:31 stassats: a libreoffice file is a zip. putting libreoffice files in a zip makes a zip _within_ a zip, not _alongside_. 13:10:47 i don't see a problem 13:10:48 and if it's possible, getting by without storage would be nice. 13:10:50 zipCetion 13:11:02 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:06 sellout- [~Adium@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:11:20 Of course I could simply call a shell script recursively to unpack all that data ... looking for alternatives. 13:11:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:46 zipCeption <-- now we have the right name 13:12:28 unzip file -c | unzip -c | unzip -c > output 13:12:54 or rather -p 13:13:09 dioxriane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 13:13:18 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:14:42 but i don't see an option to take data from input, maybe zip is not suitable for streaming 13:15:29 stassats: no. the zip directory is at the end. 13:15:57 and I don't know what data is encoded how - I just get a file, and have to process it "to the roots". 13:16:24 webos [~webos@cst-prg-80-252.cust.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 13:17:21 well then, it's clear that you have to fully uncompress it then 13:18:15 yes, but in the typical case it all should fit in RAM just fine. 13:18:44 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:18:46 uncompress it into ram, into cache, into register file, whatever rocks your boat 13:19:21 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:20:18 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:07 momo-reina [~user@aa20111001946f573a1d.userreverse.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:22:41 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[~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:30 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.213] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:39:45 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ecgtfnrovginviqx] has joined #lisp 14:42:55 hi 14:44:05 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 14:45:10 stassats: does slime have something like "undefine thing at point"? 14:45:57 *Xach* only just discovered slime-inspect-definition 14:45:59 C-c C-u, for functions only 14:46:09 Thanks. 14:46:38 What an obscure name! 14:46:41 and it's for the name at point, not like slime-inspect-definition, which works inside the whole defun/defclass/defwhatever 14:46:57 For some reason when searching yesterday I thought of "remove" and "kill" and "delete" but not "undefine" 14:47:29 should've been fundfn 14:47:46 SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 14:48:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: i will be back...nvm] 14:50:01 Adlai 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[~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:22:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:26 _8david [~user@port-212-202-134-139.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:24:36 mrSpec [~Spec@80.123.140.214] has joined #lisp 16:24:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@80.123.140.214] has quit [Changing host] 16:24:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:27:52 ikki [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ikki] has joined #lisp 16:27:53 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:10 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-206-149-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Quit: ] 16:31:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:33:13 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:54 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:59 flip214: you need to process it to the leaves. the file you get is the root of the archive tree. 16:36:51 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:02 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:02 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:37:20 I'd be surprized if there was a theorical limit on the size of the recursively uncompressed data, but if it was, I'd bet it'd be bigger than the universe anyways. 16:45:07 see also 42.zip (a 42k nested .zip that decompresses to 4.5 petabytes when recursively uncompressed) 16:45:39 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:50 -!- moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:46:13 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@6.16.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:47:07 Thra11 [~thrall@219.210.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:44 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:50 ogamita: there are also zip quines, so that would mean there is no limit on the total size if you keep each step around, but doesn't prove there is no limit on the tail size 16:48:40 Ah great! Zip quines! :-) 16:50:00 .rar files clearly have no limit, since they can contain byte-code for "custom decompression" that can generate unbounded output 16:50:46 though IIRC that is now disabled by default, since there were so many security holes in the rar VM that executed the byte-code (i.e. code execution, not just DoS) 16:51:37 actually, it's not unbounded, since you have to specify the decompressed size in the index, but essentially unbounded 16:52:14 -!- cades_ [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ] 16:52:20 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has joined #lisp 16:52:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:53:33 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1215-202.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:53:38 -!- Keshi is now known as Keshi` 16:54:08 bitonic [~user@dyn1212-49.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:57:28 -!- ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:03 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has joined #lisp 16:58:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.247.183] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:02:58 cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:57 -!- ogamita [~t@62.23.193.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:22 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:04:44 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-yjwojgovdyxjohkz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:15 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ssltuvrwtnsmnvxi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:00 -!- anonus [~user@citadel.niflheim.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:51 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 17:06:51 -!- spacefrogg_ is now known as spacefrogg 17:09:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:10:22 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:23 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-11-19.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:38 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1212-49.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:12:54 -!- ZombieChicken is now known as ZC|Phone 17:13:21 -!- ZC|Phone is now known as ZombieChicken 17:13:46 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:13:47 -!- dioxriane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:13:55 anonus [anonus@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 17:14:18 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has joined #lisp 17:16:00 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0027fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:00 -!- anonus [anonus@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:12 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:18:06 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-114.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:48 anonus [~user@citadel.niflheim.info] has joined #lisp 17:19:46 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-117.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:19:48 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:21:38 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@219.210.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:05 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-114.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:22:53 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-zwbyedgwhcbnzfvc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:15 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-afnaascgxlhczwpk] has joined #lisp 17:23:17 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-114.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:54 is (let ((x ...)) (defun f (...) ...x...) (defun g (...) ...x...)) a "good" way to do data hiding in Lisp? 17:26:21 it seems to perform well on CCL and I like that it seems to hide X from the rest of the program 17:26:37 but I'm wondering if there are any gotchas 17:28:33 don't bother with it.. just use defvar with a name that's not exported 17:30:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 -!- faheem [~faheem@bulldog.duhs.duke.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:36:42 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has joined #lisp 17:38:22 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:38:44 clop: data hiding is not worth the trouble. 17:40:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:17 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: supernova explosion] 17:44:18 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-107-113-155.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:18 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:04 CL makes it easier to hang up a sign that says "Private" than make a locked steel door. 17:47:17 clop: by hiding the data in the way that you showed, you're mostly making your own way harder because you cannot access the hidden data with a debugger 17:47:18 H4ns, memo from easye: CXML-STP works with ABCL if you unpatch the failing xpath test http://alta.slack.net/~evenson/abcl/without-unloaded-xpath-test-20130322a.diff 17:47:18 H4ns, memo from easye: http://paste.lisp.org/+2X2I 17:47:28 \o/ 17:47:33 easye: thanks! 17:47:56 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:17 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:48:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:49:09 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 17:49:52 findiggle [~user@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:43 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:52:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has joined #lisp 17:54:06 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:57:04 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:59:55 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-134-118.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:01:36 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:02:17 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0027fb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:03:35 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wcugwjavkfubfxtf] has joined #lisp 18:03:45 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:05:19 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 18:05:23 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.211] has joined #lisp 18:06:06 clop: why do you want to hide the data? 18:06:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:24 -!- eisturger [~meisterbu@static-50-43-16-216.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 18:07:25 how would one go about retrieving the value of x in clop's example, if the functions f and g don't yield it directly? 18:07:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:07:56 prxq: inspecting the disassembly? 18:08:39 depending on the implementation and the optimize levels you might be able to get it from a backtrace that has f or g in it 18:08:57 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-afnaascgxlhczwpk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:10:38 inspecting the closure might work. 18:10:49 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:12:20 you could always add a (defun get-x () x) function into the mix, if you wanted to be able to debug it 18:17:07 "if" 18:18:14 *patrickwonders* grins 18:18:31 clop: at which point why didn't you just use defvar? 18:19:15 really when you use data-hiding tricks like that it's saying "I don't trust you to not use :: on a package you don't understand" 18:19:43 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:19:43 and if someone is determined to get an internal value, they'll just change the source 18:20:44 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:21:29 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-baiigpsxeqhodixm] has joined #lisp 18:21:52 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:03 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:23:25 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.112.136] has joined #lisp 18:24:41 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:20 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.209.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:30:44 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:31:48 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 18:32:07 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:33:00 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:08 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 18:34:21 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 18:34:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:35:23 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:55 on [~user@217.Red-83-55-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:19 -!- on is now known as Guest50898 18:38:05 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:40:03 dioxirane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 18:40:31 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:40:39 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:40:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:41:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:31 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 18:41:57 -!- dioxirane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 18:42:02 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:42:30 dioxirane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 18:45:06 -!- ikki [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ikki] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:21 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-220-68-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:46:56 ikki [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ikki] has joined #lisp 18:47:16 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:33 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:42 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-114.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:49:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:51:23 easye: ping 18:52:12 -!- chandra [d0557065@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.85.112.101] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:52:40 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.59.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:12 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 18:54:31 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:56:35 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 18:58:00 is there any sort of find-in-tree utility function that already exists? 18:58:30 jasom: http://lisptips.com/post/43404489000/the-tree-walkers-of-cl 18:59:53 any ABCL dev here ? 18:59:55 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-117.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:00:50 H4ns: aha, subst is exactly what I want I think; is it defined to visit the CARs before the CDRs? 19:01:16 clhs only says "Searches tree for occurrences..." 19:01:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for only says "Searches tree for occurrences...". 19:01:44 jasom: it is defined to do what the clhs says :) 19:02:32 moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has joined #lisp 19:04:19 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 19:04:38 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has joined #lisp 19:05:40 aha, the CLHS has an example implementation of subst that visits the car first, I can use that 19:06:43 -!- Keshi` [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:08:03 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:04 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:08:13 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:38 -!- Guest50898 [~user@217.Red-83-55-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 19:14:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:04 jasom: examples aren't normative... and that implementation is a "possible" one ;) (compared with nconc) 19:15:32 -!- moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:15:47 pkhuong: which is why I'm cutting and pasting the example 19:15:51 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:51 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:16:01 pkhuong: instead of relying on CL:SUBST to visit CARs in order 19:16:22 Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.241.211] has joined #lisp 19:16:27 by "that one" I meant the exact code from the hyperspec rather than CL:SUBST I guess that was unclear 19:16:32 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:16:49 jasom: ah, ok. 19:17:34 turns out that on closer reading I couldn't have used subst, since I needed "new" to be a function 19:18:06 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:18:19 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 19:18:38 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.112.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:20:18 -!- webos [~webos@cst-prg-80-252.cust.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:22:12 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:07 H4ns, hi 19:25:22 H4ns, regarding start-thread, do you have time to discuss? 19:25:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:34 Fare: go ahead 19:26:44 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:27:12 jasom: you had to code. shocking, I agree (: 19:27:25 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 19:27:43 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:09 Sean-Der [~sean@64.241.87.62] has joined #lisp 19:30:16 hey Fare 19:34:19 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 19:34:41 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-222-103.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:08 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Quit: checkity check out.] 19:38:19 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:38:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:39:27 -!- Knirr [~Knirr@c-da4ae555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:54 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[~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:04:42 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-qjouyhqiqialwarm] has joined #lisp 21:08:36 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:09:18 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:10:50 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:14 -!- cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:12:26 can you recommend me a XML parser for CL? 21:12:49 cxml 21:12:52 Denommus: sure. cxml. 21:13:11 :-) 21:13:21 drewc: watching football distracts you 21:14:04 #+quicklisp (ql:quickload '(drakma cxml-stp closure-html fiveam)) <--- is at the top of my current buffer :) 21:14:33 fe[nl]ix: yeah, and I am defense usually, so I slow things down myself! :) 21:14:59 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:16:07 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:25:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2ccc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:28:43 -!- dioxirane [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:30:43 +1 for cxml 21:30:49 -!- PuercoPop [~PuercoPop@190.222.252.106] has quit [Quit: se pira] 21:31:40 is stp more memory efficient than the DOM implementation of cxml? I had a moderate sized xml document that wouldn't fit into ram with cxml (but would with a random python xml to dom parser I tried) 21:32:28 jasom: STP is just a query layer, iirc. Switch to a streaming approach? 21:32:35 *jasom* uses klacks for most stuff 21:33:04 last time I had to parse XML I used SAX... is that supported by cxml? 21:33:20 there is a sax library for CL 21:33:42 dim yes 21:33:47 http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/sax.html 21:33:58 it also has a StAX like mode called klacks 21:34:01 http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/sax.html hehe 21:34:03 dim: it's how CXML works internally. 21:34:03 if you have the DTD you can use sexml to write as sexps, maybe 21:34:21 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 21:34:31 perfect, maybe some day I'll get around to add some XML support to pgloader, then 21:35:01 the real thing I guess would be to provide XSLT support so that how to get from XML to database records is not my problem 21:35:17 archonix [~archonix@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 21:35:38 pkhuong: STP docs claim it is a "Data structure for well-formed XML documents" 21:35:58 http://www.lichteblau.com/cxml-stp/ 21:36:20 *drewc* uses it and prefers it 21:36:38 jasom: you're quite right. I always used the STP representation, I think. 21:36:54 -!- naeg is now known as naeg|afk 21:38:28 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:41:18 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-214-197-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:41:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:33 https://github.com/drewc/drewc.org/blob/master/yasexml.lisp <--- and what I use to write XML via sexps 21:43:07 *jasom* is guessing "yet another S expression xml"? 21:43:43 i like madnificent's sexml 21:44:11 (defpackage drewc.org/yasexml (:documentation "YASEXML: Yet Another Symbolic Expression eXtensible Markup Language") ...) 21:44:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:44:24 axion: I do not, hence my own. 21:44:45 thats the lisp way, to reinvent the wheel :) 21:44:48 Someone should have written a xml frontend for cmucl in the '90s then common-lisp could have invaded large companies 21:45:25 Just claim it's a new language that is fully extensible since it's built on top of XML 21:45:58 if I want to use an asdf system in a script, should I use (require ')? 21:46:32 Denommus: (asdf:load-system :system-name) 21:46:33 axion: re-invent? non .. I just like smaller code that does the right thing. 160 lines, 100 of which are documentation :) 21:46:46 clhs require 21:46:47 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_provid.htm 21:46:59 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:47:00 Denommus: ^ no, not at all. 21:47:00 Denommus: might need to eval-when, also 21:47:25 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-53-217.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:38 yeah, depending on what you mean by "script" you might need an eval-when around the load-system 21:48:19 maybe load-system should always have an implicit eval-when? 21:48:52 drewc: i was joking. every lisper thinks their way is better is all i meant. ;) 21:49:05 *drewc* does #+quicklisp (quote #.(ql:quickload '(cxml))) so has no idea what is required tbh 21:49:05 Fare: you'd have to turn it into a macro 21:49:11 axion: but unlike me, they're all wrong 21:49:14 Fare: is it worth making it a macro? 21:49:31 there's still oos 'load-op as a function 21:49:37 Fare: did you mean to discuss thread starting? 21:49:44 yes 21:49:48 if you have time 21:49:50 what threads ? 21:49:54 axion: and, since I do not, I must not be a lisper! :) 21:50:00 right, but how can I even use ASDF? 21:50:07 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:50:13 Denommus: ?? 21:50:22 Fare: i confirmed that an hour ago 21:50:23 (asdf:load-system :system-name) -> hey your system is loaded now 21:50:23 normanrichards [~normanric@63.97.102.250] has joined #lisp 21:50:28 " Package ASDF does not exist." 21:50:32 I think your proposed interface is enough for my immediate needs, yet feel like it's more versatile to let the user handle the thread-making 21:50:36 k0001 [~k0001@host177.186-125-98.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:50:40 oh, dang. 21:50:47 Denommus: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ :) 21:50:54 (require 'asdf)? 21:51:03 Denommus: you need to load asdf first; that's usually in your init file for your lisp 21:51:13 Denommus: if not, you can get asdf in a single .lisp file that you can load 21:51:21 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 21:51:36 Fare: that much i gathered from your email. i'm opposed to creating interfaces that are not needed, though. 21:51:43 also, call-next-method can handle the situation with just wrapping thunk and doing whatever hunchentoot is doing 21:51:47 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:47 on one hand, (require 'asdf) worked. On the other, (asdf:load-system :cxml) didn't 21:51:51 H4ns: I understand 21:51:51 *drewc* can recommend using quicklisp, which installes the 'proper' ASDF, but he really does not know anything about CL. 21:52:09 Denommus: do you have cxml installed? 21:52:21 Fare: also, i'm in favor of interfaces that serve a clear purpose which can also be stated in the documentation. 21:52:26 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:26 sorry, I've been looking on other windows -- trying to debug a weird memory corruption 21:52:38 jasom: yup 21:52:47 H4ns: yes!! 21:52:47 Denommus: is it in your asdf tree somewhere? 21:52:47 Fare: like with my proposed interface, the purpose would be special variable and handler binding, and that would be very straightforward to do. 21:52:48 I'm in favor of not writing documentation for code that is not going to be merged. 21:53:01 I installed it through quicklisp 21:53:06 H4ns: yes. 21:53:11 Denommus: oh, then just use (ql:quickload :cxml) 21:53:18 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:53:24 Fare: code that is not documented has a lower chance of being treated favorably. 21:53:29 H4ns: if I cold your proposed interface and write documentation, would it stand a chance of a merge? 21:53:49 Fare: sure. 21:54:04 of course - but I'd rather write the documentation after I know the code stands a chance 21:54:10 writing docs is a lot of time 21:54:26 uh... package ql does not exist. Which is rather strange, since I _can_ call ql:quickload on sbcl 21:54:30 (if I had written docs for my current interface, would it have made it?) 21:54:37 only to be clear, I'm trying to make a file that runs with sbcl --script 21:54:43 Denommus, didn't load ql yet? 21:54:43 Fare: chances would have been certainly better :) 21:54:54 *drewc* writes code, then docs, then tests that take what the docs specify and tries in on the code 21:55:05 H4ns, if I write documentation for THAT instead of your proposal, would it stand a chance? 21:55:13 Fare: but as i had to look at it thoroughly, i came up with my suggestion for an interface that i find better. 21:55:16 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 21:55:18 Fare: no, you missed your chance. 21:55:21 :D 21:55:23 ok 21:55:36 will come back to you, after I debug my memory corruption 21:55:44 np 21:55:49 I'll check man sbcl 21:55:55 Fare: no rush. i'm also not really saying i'd never merge your current version. 21:56:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:56:16 Fare: it is just that i think it requires more documentation and also example code to make it clear how binding would work 21:56:30 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:56:31 what about the starting of a thread for the acceptor in non-LW vs not starting on LW ? 21:56:35 Is that a design choice? 21:56:39 Fare: whereas a function that is called on the stack of the newly created thread is easier to grasp. 21:57:19 Fare: i think that is more or less historical baggage. lw used to create threads automatically when a new incoming connection arrived. 21:57:26 Is there any chance to set thread-creation-time parameters? 21:57:42 Fare: if the thread handling can be unified, i like it very much. 21:57:51 foom: what do you mean by that? 21:57:52 when I make sbcl --script, doesn't sbcl load my .sbclrc? 21:58:29 H4ns: moral equivalent to pthread_attr_t argument to pthread_create. 21:58:57 ok - but unified which way -- starting a new thread on all implementations or none? 21:58:58 If you create threads for users, it might be nice if you could pass those types of things through too if your impl allows. 21:59:16 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:19 I have little idea what API you're actually talking about, mind you :) 21:59:46 foom: i don't have the pthread api in my head right now, so maybe you could elaborate what pthread_attr_t could contain? 21:59:48 Denommus: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Shebang-Scripts 21:59:58 foom: see https://github.com/edicl/hunchentoot/pull/52 22:00:03 Fare: i'd like to unify on the non-lw way 22:00:04 H4ns: stack size for instance 22:00:32 foom: ah. so you want to actually create the threads yourself, basically 22:00:45 drewc: that's precisely what I'm doing 22:00:49 foom: i can see how that'd be useful, but i have not seen someone ask for it. 22:00:58 vince` [~user@dhcp98-163.cs.cornell.edu] has joined #lisp 22:01:02 *Fare* favors the ability to create threads in the extension API 22:01:21 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:01:57 Fare: well, maybe two new interfaces would make sense - one for creating threads, one for creating the dynamic environment within a newly created thread 22:02:12 maybe 22:02:13 normanri_ [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-025.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:17 Denommus: good, then the directions work. 22:02:24 (one can express the other, though) 22:03:01 Denommus: IIRC scripting doesn't load the init files; manually load the setup.lisp file (default install dir is the homedirectory/quicklisp/setup.lisp)) 22:03:02 Fare: of course. but that is not an argument. 22:03:55 Denommus: something like (load (merge-pathnames "quicklisp/setup.lisp" (user-homedir-pathname))) should work 22:04:08 I don't even know if any lisp impls have arguments to their create-thread function that people would want to be able to set. But I can imagine that some might. 22:04:23 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:52 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:52 Denommus: "--script filename Implies --no-userinit --no-sysinit --disable-debugger --end-toplevel-options." ... read the instructions again please, because all your 'questions' seem to be answered there. :D 22:04:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:28 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-qjouyhqiqialwarm] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:05:45 I wanted to make the least change in a way that was maximally future-proof. 22:05:50 jasom: ok, it worked :D 22:05:55 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@63.97.102.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:05:56 -!- normanri_ is now known as normanrichards 22:06:02 I understand you have your doubts about the future proofing -- you're the maintainer, I respect your choice 22:06:04 Hi, here is my problem, I'm using a socket to communicate between two machines, and instead of the send and receive functions, I would like to use read and write, so I've converted my sockets into streams, the "writer" writes in the stream, then calls finish-output on the stream, but the "reader" won't receive anything until I kill the writer. I'm using SBCL. Any idea what I'm doing wrong? 22:06:37 converting sockets into streams? 22:06:40 drewc: I checked the man page for sbcl to check what exactly --script did, and checked each of these options. I just didn't understand it properly 22:07:01 drewc: sorry for the incoveniece, but thanks for the help :) 22:07:12 if you're going to have two interfaces, I contend that one is enough, that is all 22:07:15 drewc: using sb-bsd-sockets:socket-make-stream 22:07:16 vince: try using finish-output 22:07:20 Denommus: "Implies --no-userinit --no-sysinit" ... is that not clear enough for you:? 22:07:28 vince`: finish-output 22:07:31 or force-output 22:07:33 Fare: there is no such thing as "enough", really. 22:07:47 drewc: he probably didn't know that quicklisp gets itself loaded by the user init file 22:07:50 Fare: one could argue endlessly about how wide or narrow an api must be. 22:07:57 I've tried both finish-output and force-output, none of them work 22:08:11 sure -- no more argument from me. You're the maintainer, you win. 22:08:20 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:25 Fare: i like things to have a clear purpose, and i like to anticipate the use so that if i see someone use a mechanism, i understand the intention. 22:08:34 drewc: I think specifically --no-userinit didn't catch my eyeballs for some reason, even I looking for something like this. Sorry 22:08:35 vince`: that is not 'convert' at all ... you now have a socket and a stream. 22:08:40 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:08:54 Fare: you wanted to discuss, here you are :) 22:09:09 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-147-025.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:09:23 oh, just found out why. There are two entries for --script on the man page 22:09:50 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:10:11 drewc: right, but still I seem to be able to send things through the stream...by killing the "writer". 22:10:27 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip174-67-209-198.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:49 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:11:00 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:05 H4ns: and I'm glad I now know what to do next, though I would have made a different design choice myself. 22:11:17 and the second one was the one that talked about --no-userinit. Silly, silly Denommus 22:11:17 vince`: so, you should look at streams, not sockets, for the issue seems to be how you use them / expect them to work / etc 22:11:42 -!- Sean-Der [~sean@64.241.87.62] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 22:11:52 so, what are the alternatives to clon for parsing command line args? 22:12:10 Fare: i feel you. more often than not, i find myself not wanting to design, but rather code. 22:12:15 drewc: on one side of the stream, I'm doing a (write foo :stream stream) and then a (finish-output stream) and on the other side a (read stream) 22:12:18 dim: IIRC IPA had a library for that 22:12:35 dim: i'm using the ita library, it is minimal but works well enough 22:12:38 s/IPA/ITA 22:13:00 dim: http://common-lisp.net/project/qitab/ <-- there it is 22:13:12 http://common-lisp.net/project/qitab/ 22:13:15 clon is, erm, well, like will to design gone overboard 22:13:19 ok, looking at that 22:13:25 I just had a look at clon manual 22:13:30 heh 22:13:34 that's why I'm looking for something else 22:13:39 yeah, I kind of want to retire it in favor of CLON, but CLON is short of what I want. Maybe I should hack CLON just enough to close the gap. 22:14:22 I think what I'd like is CLON separated in layers. 22:14:31 tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-79-181-109-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:45 i'm not sure if clon is meant seriously 22:14:50 unhappily it is 22:14:56 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:15:40 H4ns: why ? 22:16:02 (unhappily, command-line-arguments is under-used at ITA, in favor of an overly complex launch shell script) 22:16:07 dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:24 fe[nl]ix: i don't know. i found the amount of documentation to be overwhelming, and i could not get simple stuff to just work 22:18:17 then report the bugs to Didier 22:19:04 fe[nl]ix: there were no bugs. i just found the thing inaccessible. too large for too small a purpose. 22:20:07 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:20:20 vince`: what do you mean by 'killing'? And fwiw, why does it send after it has disconnected?! 22:21:14 -!- findiggle [~user@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:39 fe[nl]ix: i can't really say anything bad abot clon except that i found it to be big. too big to get going with it in a few hours, and i was not willing to spend a lot of time just on that. i needed command line option parsing, not world domination dressed as command line option parser 22:22:14 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-217-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:22:53 *drewc* used CLON a long time ago, but it was a CRON replacement and not Command Line related at all .. LoL ... the reuse of names can make one mad! 22:25:54 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:27:28 We're running short on ETLAs -- the ultimate scarce computing resource 22:28:03 in any case, I'm glad someone is using command-line-arguments. 22:28:21 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 22:28:43 -!- archonix [~archonix@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:45 drewc: by 'killing', I mean stopped the process, and the process sends some information through the stream before it stops. I've made some progress, for some reason, I have to also do a (write "\n" :stream stream) before the (finish-output stream). I don't get that though. Why do I need to do that? 22:29:35 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:13 vince`: maybe you can paste some code to paste.lisp.org? 22:33:04 (write "\n" :stream stream) does not write a newline 22:33:25 is there a trick to make it so that buildapp is able to load the .asd system dependencies in the image all by itself? 22:33:34 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:52 cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:56 fe[nl]ix: What does it do? 22:34:39 clhs write 22:34:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 22:34:46 vince`: ^ 22:35:01 vince`: \n is not newline in common lisp, if you expected tht 22:35:23 vince`: there is no syntax to insert a newline into a string. 22:36:00 --asdf-tree is helpfull ;) 22:36:47 vince`: except for an actual newline. 22:36:48 H4ns: (concatenate 'string "line" (list #\Newline)) :) 22:36:58 Fatal c-string-decoding-error: :ascii c-string decoding error: the octet sequence #(226) cannot be decoded. 22:37:17 well, thanks everyone, I think I'm making some progress here 22:37:23 I have no other clue given by buildapp at all, do you have any, oh #lisp wisdom? 22:37:55 I wonder if it would break any code to make CL strings support sane backslash escapes 22:38:41 dim: find out where your external format is ascii instead of utf-8. 22:38:48 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-181-109-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:57 foom: I can thing of over 1000 lines of code of my own that would be affected ... and that is just me ;) 22:39:03 pkhuong: well do you mean in my sources or in buildapp itself? 22:39:08 drewc: oh? 22:39:43 I mean, right now, "\x" is just the same as "x", so why would anyone actually use that? 22:40:23 foom: then again, I do not know what you mean by 'sane', so what do I know beyond (length "\n") :) 22:40:47 dim: not likely to be in buildapp. 22:40:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:03 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:04 drewc: I mean "\n" should be a string containing the character #\Newline, instead of the string "n" 22:41:21 doesn't cl-interpol support that? 22:41:25 damn my source files are said to be ascii by the `file` command 22:41:41 emacs 24.3 did change how to setup default to utf8? 22:41:45 foom: reader macros are that-a-way 22:41:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:15 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@bzq-79-181-109-90.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:22 foom: and that is where i disagree, but for example, what is with CL-INTERPOL if you want C or PERL of Unix like strings? 22:42:25 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:27 Fare: can you add that to uiop? :) 22:42:32 what is wrong with* 22:42:41 no, uiop is not the right place for that 22:42:51 Yes, I was kidding. 22:43:09 but sure, it would be nice to have a named-readtable for that 22:43:15 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.89] has joined #lisp 22:43:28 (as a backdoor way to change the interpretation of "" globally on all implementations!) 22:43:35 ouch 22:44:20 of course, since \n on CL does a n, which is useless since everyone can have a n without backslash, presumably no one relies on \n and changing it should be alright 22:44:27 Fare: that was exactly my point 22:44:30 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:44:32 the existing behavior is just dumb 22:45:05 dim: file would likely not tell the difference between utf-8 and ascii on most programs without reading the whole file. 22:45:38 I did try forcing Emacs to save the files in utf8 without luck 22:45:50 *drewc* does not like \n meaning (string #\Newline) ...but hey, he is just one person who hates that syntax ;) 22:45:53 both C-x RET f and C-x RET r seems to have no effect 22:46:01 I don't trust file on that too much, but still 22:46:28 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:46:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:46:46 what's wrong with #.(format nil "this~%is~a~%multi line string")? 22:47:03 what's wrong with #.(format nil "this~%is~%a~%multi line string")? rather 22:47:04 Rather than loading cl-interpol in my code, I'd rather just use my great charisma to convince CL implementators to add an incompatible extension to the language and support "\n\t\x55\u1234\U00101234\N{SNOWMAN}" the way it ought to be supported. :) 22:47:21 -!- knob [~anon@76.76.202.244] has quit [] 22:47:51 asdf ought to have an easier way to specify and chain around-compile wrappers 22:48:03 Or you can just add that to uiop and WORLD DOMINATION! 22:48:16 then you could just specify in your system that you want this string syntax 22:48:26 isn't that named readtables? 22:48:33 er, package readtables 22:48:53 well, first you have to defsystem-depends-on (named-readtables) 22:49:23 I did try to force convert files with iconv to no avail, of course 22:49:24 or else your impl should support them natively 22:49:30 then you you to defun something that will wrap your code in your favorite named-readtables (that you also defsystem-depends-on), then you must :around-compile that. 22:49:36 possible but cumbersome 22:49:53 pkhuong: where do you think that error comes from, if not my source files encoding? the encoding of some other system I depend on encoding? 22:50:22 lparallel, cl-ppcre, simple-date, postmodern, alexandria, command-line-arguments and uiop are the ones I do depend on 22:50:31 *drewc* is glad that common lisp is a standard and his code that works does not need to be changed to support 'unix strings' :) 22:50:32 foom: good luck with that... especially with clisp... they'll find a way to make theirs incompatible in a subtle way 22:51:20 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:51:23 ok works now 22:51:33 the --asdf-tree ~/quicklisp was to broad apparently 22:51:41 --asdf-tree ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/ is better 22:51:52 drewc: I'm still 22:52:12 confused as to what you're saying it'd break to have that. But I suppose this is all academic anyways so it doesn't really matter. 22:52:41 k0001_ [~k0001@host169.190-224-54.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:53:23 dim: you might also have "ascii" files, with random > 127 characters. 22:53:42 But it's most likely that some file has utf-8 comments. 22:54:00 some random file in ~/quicklisp, apparently 22:55:53 next trap, interestingly enough, quicklisp is not re-compiling the systems it loads in the image apparently 22:56:07 foom: length. What char is #\Newline? 22:56:16 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host177.186-125-98.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:57:05 length of "\n" is 1 isn't it 22:57:08 drewc: #\Newline is #\Newline it's tautological 22:57:20 Bike: yes 22:57:31 and would be either way? 22:57:34 "\n" expands to possibly more than one character on some C systems 22:57:53 jasom: like win32? 22:57:57 drewc: yup 22:59:00 one character to move the cursor to the beginning of the line, and another to move it down a line 23:00:09 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-103-29.lns14.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:00:52 drewc: so now I can somehow get the reader to receive the information the writer sends; for that the writer does that: (write info :stream stream) (write "" :stream stream) (finish-output stream), and the reader won't receive anything unless I put the (write "" ...) in there. Now the problem is that sometimes the reader receives info and sometimes it receives "". Any idea? 23:03:28 Bike: if you are keeping it is a CL:STRING, sure... but otherwise, say a stream of (unsigned-byte 8) ... that is just me thinking of the things that I do fwiw, and it is probably a two/three line fix to go with unix or C style strings. 23:03:52 drewc: ok. i wouldn't like \n => newline either, i was just wondering what you were getting at. 23:04:41 Bike: I have numerous things like that... but that byte stream was the first that popped to mind. 23:05:46 vince`: and socket-send/socket-receive do not work right? 23:06:47 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:07:29 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 23:07:36 drewc: they do, I was just curious whether write/read would be faster. Right now the marshaling/unmarshaling of the structures I send throught the sockets seem to be slow. 23:07:53 read/write are for streams. not sockets 23:08:17 drewc: I do use read/write on streams...I think 23:08:18 antgreen [~green@dsl-209-90-147-198.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:08:20 or: you are talking about different things, they are not the same. 23:08:47 vince`: read/write will be faster than what? 23:08:52 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-181-109-90.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:37 drewc: write/read on streams, faster than marshaling/send/receive/unmarshaling on sockets 23:10:26 vince`: so, networking is slower than RAM? 23:10:40 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:11:09 tenawa [~user@c-98-201-86-201.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:34 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:12:54 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-181-109-90.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:13:14 drewc: I've got sockets and I'm generating streams using sb-bsd-sockets:socket-make-stream. I thought that writing in the stream would send the data through the socket? 23:14:42 vince`: can you show me the instructions that say so? that seems odd , but I do not know much about whatever you have read that told you this. 23:15:50 drewc: that was just my guess. What can we use the stream we get from sb-bsd-sockets:socket-make-stream for otherwise? 23:16:00 I mean, http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#General-Sockets says for socket-make-stream : "Acceptable values for buffering are :full, :line and :none, default is :full, ie. output is buffered till it is explicitly flushed using close or finish-output. (force-output forces some output to be flushed: to ensure all buffered output is flused use finish-output.)" 23:16:22 fms [~user@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 23:16:26 vince`: are you a new programmer who has just learned about streams and sockets recently? 23:16:28 oO 23:16:40 -!- fms [~user@199.21.86.106] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:41 drewc: yep, sorry 23:17:24 vince`: well, in that case, you should probably read up on what they are ... streams are streams, sockets are sockets :) 23:18:50 drewc: what would you use the socket-make-stream function for? 23:20:27 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:21:39 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:08 well, to make- a stream from a -socket? Is that not what it is for? 23:22:35 or even socket- ... damn spelling! :P 23:23:20 drewc: right :), thanks, have a good week-end :) 23:24:45 *drewc* now confused about the result of that chat, but cares not a lot, so will try to make the next day 'good'. 23:27:30 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-209-90-147-198.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:28:32 jerryzhou [~slackerui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 23:28:52 Invalid initialization argument: :AROUND-COMPILE when trying to load system uiop from buildapp, now (on another system) 23:29:10 damn I'm done for tonigh I guess 23:29:26 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-004.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:30:03 -!- vince` [~user@dhcp98-163.cs.cornell.edu] has left #lisp 23:30:36 dim: ouch. 23:31:13 dim: are you using the latest quicklisp? 23:31:20 that's sbcl 1.0.38 and latest quicklisp, yes 23:31:24 installed yesterday 23:31:44 (ql:quickload :uiop) works fine, ./buildapp is complaining 23:31:48 Denommus [~user@201.75.85.87] has joined #lisp 23:32:10 hi 23:32:17 the problem is in quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/uiop-2.32.5/uiop.asd apparently 23:32:35 I'm using cxml for opening a xml, and xpath to use xpath. But there is a strange behavior 23:32:56 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.41.76] has joined #lisp 23:33:06 -!- eisturger [~meisterbu@static-50-43-16-216.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 23:34:32 *drewc* uses cxml-stp and xpath right now! So does not have problems but would like to know what it is 23:34:50 dim: what does (asdf:asdf-version) say? 23:34:51 I have ... on my XML. When using "/map", it returns a empty node, but I can use /@attrname to select attributes from the XML. Is this intended? 23:34:59 it has had :around-compile since 2.20 or so 23:35:02 *from the 23:35:09 2.26, Fare 23:35:34 "map" also returns a empty node 23:36:30 ok, gn here 23:37:12 this is my code: http://paste.lisp.org/+2X4J 23:37:22 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:37:55 (cxml:parse "..." 23:37:55 (stp:make-builder)) AND (xpath:evaluate "/map" *) => # package stp doesn't exist 23:39:31 and I can't seem to install it from quicklisp 23:39:46 Denommus: (ql:quickload :cxml-stp) 23:40:16 Denommus: try (ql:system-apropos "stp") 23:40:16 well, then, your QL is fubar, your lisp is fubar, and your XML libs must be as well! :) 23:40:18 ok, got it 23:40:28 antgreen [~green@dsl-209-90-147-198.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:40:36 Denommus: also, you may want to not use require. it is not very portable. 23:40:58 Denommus: rather, write yourself a trivial asdf system definition or use ql:quickload 23:42:01 H4ns: it's just a testing script. On my project I'll use a proper asdf system 23:42:32 thanks for the help 23:42:45 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-181-109-90.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:55 ah of course, because all testing must be non-portable and working only because it does for one CL implementation! ;) 23:43:10 dim: works for me 23:43:26 *drewc* only uses one CL implementation but tests on many 23:43:32 dim: what does (asdf:system-source-file :uiop) tells you? 23:44:59 momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.73] has joined #lisp 23:45:06 drewc: it's not a unit test, it's just a script I'm doing to check how cxml and xpath should work on my code 23:46:00 call it a prototype. It will be thrown away when I start doing real code 23:46:12 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 23:46:45 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:24 what is a unit test exactly? I mean, all my tests are not very 'unit' test like ... and all my 'prototypes' are never thrown away ... but then again, I am somewhat different from your 'average' programmer, so what do I know. 23:48:21 drewc: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-building-a-unit-test-framework.html 23:48:39 Denommus, oh no, please not another one! 23:48:41 amazing ... that says what a unit test is? 23:49:15 yes, somehow 23:49:19 -!- dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:46 *jasom* would say a unit test is something that tests a small part of a project independent of the other parts of it 23:50:06 well, I have not read that in like 10 years, so I will go to my bookshelf and see what the definition that Peter uses is. 23:50:22 dnolen [~user@rrcs-208-105-4-254.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:16 jasom gave a nice definition 23:52:13 and IMO doing the work to independently test it is often harder than writing it correctly in the first place, which is the major complaint I have with unit testing 23:52:16 but really, what I meant is that I'm messing with code, learning the language. I'm aware of (require)'s shortcomings, but on my system I'm using depends-on 23:52:17 ok, so all my tests are unit tests?! 23:53:02 are they automated? 23:53:04 I mean, I do not write them first, so not TDD at all ... but they are all tests of a unit, for my project is, well, everything i do 23:53:09 Mu 23:53:49 I don't care much about TDD, either. Usually I create tests when the code I'm going to do requires a good amount of complexity, or when I discover a bug 23:54:00 drewc: if you have a function foo that calls function bar in order to do its work, and both foo and bar are part of your project, if the test fails when bar doesn't work, then the test is not a unit test for foo 23:54:23 jasom: ok, so functions are units? 23:54:37 damn, then I do not have any unit tests. 23:54:39 moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has joined #lisp 23:54:42 drewc: they can be; the definition of "unit" is fuzzy, but if you make it too big then it's useless 23:54:46 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:09 what is 'big'? 23:55:22 "unit" is anything that can be treated independently from the rest of the code, which is itself a real strange definition 23:55:36 Denommus: it becomes circular at that point 23:55:43 ok, so there are not any units .. got it ;) 23:56:11 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:56:33 jasom: yup. Because if you have a fraction of the code that is "independent", why not fractionate it even more to make it even more "independent"? 23:56:38 for the SBCL users out there, anyone know how to get the STEP macro to work on primitives? the manual says that the functions must be compiled with sufficient debug polcy to enable stepping, but AFAIK sbcl has a very high speed vs debug default setting. 23:56:39 drewc: if the only thing that calls "bar" is "foo" then foo+bar would reasonably be called a unit 23:56:56 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 23:56:59 or why don't you get two amount of codes that are "independent" and make them as only one unit? 23:57:06 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 (defun string-concatenate (&rest args) (apply #'concatenate 'string args)) <--- so string-concatenate + Common Lisp is a unit? 23:57:18 but if "foo" calls "bar" and "baz" calls "bar" then someone who is zealous about unit testing would say that they are 3 separate units 23:58:02 I'd say that, on a pure-functional code, every function should be a "unit" 23:58:18 drewc: mocking up externalities are not a concern typically 23:58:25 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-wcugwjavkfubfxtf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:25 but I never did any pure functional code in my whole life, so... I don't know 23:58:40 well, thank g-d I do not read the books that people write about what developers have done in the past! Otherwise I may have to code in Java and not know anything :P 23:59:40 drewc: you should see the gymnastics people go through to make fake versions of objects when they have this huge object heirarchy in Java. It's probably 100s of man-hours of work just so you can test a 10 line method independently of everything else 23:59:46 the point is: nobody nowadays what a unit test is. Not since Rails people messed it all up