00:00:14 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@37.203.72.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:02:36 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:45 Too busy hacking 00:07:31 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.245.105] has joined #lisp 00:08:28 |-|4X0R! all yoru banks are belong to me! 00:08:47 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:09:18 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.224.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:10:14 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 00:12:45 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has joined #lisp 00:13:00 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ktfkhzssiichcrvh] has joined #lisp 00:13:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:13:41 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:00 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:14:09 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:15:29 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has joined #lisp 00:15:33 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 00:15:33 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Client Quit] 00:15:59 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.245.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:16:50 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:17:36 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:04 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has joined #lisp 00:18:06 hello 00:18:12 http://paste.org/62863 00:18:19 I have some question 00:18:23 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:27 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:38 whe use de apply 00:18:44 i have an error 00:19:04 Juanito-Jons: paste.org doesn't like addblockers, please use paste.lisp.org instead 00:19:18 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:19:27 ok, just a minute 00:19:28 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:20:42 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has joined #lisp 00:20:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136144 00:21:50 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 00:23:45 Juanito-Jons: apply takes a function and a list of values. it applies the function to the values, as if you gave each of the values separately. the function my-double takes one argument. it is as if you called it like (my-double 1 2 3 4 5). did you want to use (mapcar #'my-double to-doble) ? 00:24:09 Juanito-Jons: also, you shouldn't just setf variables which haven't been declared. and special variables deserve earmuffs. 00:24:27 ok thanks 00:25:00 let me change it 00:26:40 Juanito-Jons: i have annotated it, and conveniently forgot to rename the parameter :) 00:27:20 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 00:28:07 madnificent: ok 00:28:44 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:28:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:30:39 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:40 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:44 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:51 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:08 -!- kanru` [~kanru@111-249-147-169.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:34:31 Juanito-Jons: (defun f (x y) (+ (* 2 x) (* 3 y))) (apply (function f) '(10 100)) --> 320 00:34:52 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:a9ed:5c71:a122:b864] has joined #lisp 00:35:25 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:27 Notice that apply takes actually a variable number of arguments, and only the last is a tail list of arguments: (apply (function f) 10 '(100)) --> 320 (apply (function f) 10 100 '()) --> 320 00:35:57 pjb: ok 00:38:25 Juanito-Jons: now, try to understand this: (defun transpose (list-of-list) (apply 'mapcar 'list list-of-list)) (transpose '((1 2 3) (a b c) (4 5 6))) -> ((1 a 4) (2 b 5) (3 c 6)) 00:38:31 ok thanks for the tip 00:40:10 cool! :) 00:40:15 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:27 mapcar takes also several lists: (mapcar '+ '(1 2 3) '(100 200 300)) --> (101 202 303) 00:41:08 I'm understanding better 00:41:15 -!- tro [~tro@14-202-8-87.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:28 Good :-) 00:41:58 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has joined #lisp 00:42:22 I saw the topic in the book on lisp 00:42:37 but now is better 00:43:50 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:50:47 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:51:48 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ktfkhzssiichcrvh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:55:10 -!- tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:56:08 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89.178.236.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:57:57 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:12 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:03:40 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has joined #lisp 01:03:45 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host239.181-1-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:04:27 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.163.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:39 pmai [~Thunderbi@178-27-46-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 01:05:39 k0001 [~k0001@host61.186-109-108.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:07:24 So I got ECL CLOS to build it's class hierarchy around my C++ class hierarchy - Yay! 01:08:54 Then I ran into the next problem. ECL defines an INSTANCEP predicate and a CLASSP predicate. 01:09:22 (INSTANCEP x) is true when x is an "instance" type. 01:10:15 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 01:10:27 There is also a CLASSP predicate where (CLASSP x) is true iff x is an instance and that instance describes a class. 01:11:15 sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:08 Sometimes ECL uses INSTANCEP when I think they should be using CLASSP. 01:12:17 example? 01:12:33 Coming right up. 01:13:41 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:14:07 Heres an example where they use INSTANCEP when I think CLASSP should be used - it's because I have other classes that describe classes and they aren't instance types. 01:14:08 http://pastebin.com/7ninrucn 01:14:52 See, they use (if (instancep class) .... 01:15:08 I think this is why generic functions are failing for me. 01:15:21 drmeister: and they aren't looking at the class as an object in that case? 01:15:23 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:38 drmeister: in terms of the MOP classes are instances 01:15:46 well AMOP 01:16:31 Wouldn't that fail anyway, if class-of returned something that si::instance-ref would barf on? 01:16:47 See, I've had to deal with classes in a way that ECL doesn't . 01:16:49 sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:29 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-4d02cbc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:17:35 If we're being AMOPpy then class-precendence-list is a generic function, so you can define it to have your own behavior on your non-instance classes, but I'm guessing that's not the case. 01:17:37 Bike: I fixed that. My CLASS and BUILT-IN-CLASS and STANDARD-CLASS implement the INSTANCE-REF function and redirect access to instance slots to C++ instance variables. 01:18:02 rather, i know that's not the case, because the macrolet is right there, durr. 01:18:24 I mimic ECL instance based classes in my CLASS class. Does that make sense? 01:18:41 it makes sense in that i understand what you're doing, it doesn't make sense in that it sounds pretty nasty 01:19:17 The goal is to cleanly integrate C++ classes with CL classes. It's not too bad. 01:19:56 So I have this C++ class hierarchy that ECL fills in with everything that I didn't implement in C++. 01:20:58 So CLASS, STANDARD-CLASS and BUILT-IN-CLASS are C++ classes and when ECL bootstraps clos it builds instance based classes and connects them to my existing hierarchy. 01:21:01 drmeister: if you want to cleanly integrate them, create a separate mapping between the C++ classes and the lisp classes for the cases that make sense. that would arguably be a nicer approach to the application programmer than limiting him in what he can express on the lisp end. 01:21:32 drmeister: oh, have you looked at how ccl does it? they have similar things going on with objc. 01:21:43 madnificent: I haven't limited the application programmer. You can create instance based classes 'til the cows come home. 01:21:58 Bike: No I haven't looked at ccl. 01:22:16 you can use objc classes, etc. i haven't used it really though. 01:22:48 Bike: How can they make that work? ObjC doesn't support multiple inheritance. 01:23:01 I guess they make something work. 01:23:25 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:43 http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter14.html#The-Objective-C-Bridge 01:23:46 Currently in my CL (instancep (find-class 't)) -> nil. 01:24:08 In ECL this would produce T. 01:24:59 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 01:24:59 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:52 In ECL (instancep (find-class 't)) --> 21 (instancep x) returns the number of slots in the instance if x is an instance and nil if not. 01:26:09 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:27:05 It would be better to change the code that uses INSTANCEP to use CLASSP than changing INSTANCEP to report the (faked) number of slots for my CLASS, BUILT-IN-CLASS and STANDARD-CLASS right? 01:28:19 Because changing INSTANCEP would work as well and require no changes to the ECL source-code. My goal has been to run the ECL code unaltered other than inserting #+ and #- feature tests. 01:29:55 Currently, since my (instancep (find-class 't)) --> nil the ECL predicate (of-class-p x (find-class 't)) fails and all calls to APPLICABLE-METHOD-LIST return nothing and generic functions are broken. 01:30:59 whatever works, i guess 01:31:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 01:32:16 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:08 Thanks - I think I've actually talked myself into changing INSTANCEP to report instances of CLASS, BUILT-IN-CLASS and STANDARD-CLASS as instances. They honor all of the same functions that ECL instance types do. 01:38:44 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:40:19 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 01:40:51 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:20 burrows [~burrows@cpe-75-187-53-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:48 I'm trying to use boole-ior and friends and sbcl tells me that it is reserved by ANSI CL but undefined. 01:41:54 What should this mean to me? 01:43:30 burrows: they are not functions, they are constants given as argument to BOOLE. 01:43:33 it means you're calling boole wrong 01:43:44 Gotcha. 01:43:57 Oh now I see, thanks. 01:44:14 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3250222105960910%40naggum.no.html has some interesting history on boole. 01:44:19 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:31 burrows: are you using boole just for fun? there are usually more direct functions to do the same thing. 01:44:47 No, not using it for fun. 01:45:10 the logand, logior, etc. functions are more concise then 01:45:15 Much. 01:45:20 that's a pretty poeticy introductory paragraph for a history of bitwise operations 01:45:50 actually, I've been wondering why there are two ways to do it 01:45:57 does that article go into it? 01:46:00 Yep. 01:46:25 ooh, i didn't know boole had more functions 01:46:27 Thanks all. 01:48:05 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.149.190.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:50:06 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3250122499743574%40naggum.no.html has some other info 01:52:18 the xec tidbit is neat 01:52:39 Which tidbit is the xec tidbit? 01:53:07 "One of the very amusing aspects of this processor was that it was possible to execute an instruction held in a register as if it had been found in the normal instruction flow" and on, in the last paragrph there. 01:53:09 Xach: in the first post Erik poses a question, indicates that he assumes a smart move was made, but he does not indicate why Seibel's suggestion would have been worse in the historic sense. it seems to be a related truth and some interesting history, but not a true answer to the question. a clever rethoric, nonetheless. 01:53:47 ah 01:53:56 At least, I think that's XEC, I've never even seen a PDP-anything. 01:54:20 -!- ikki [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ikki] has quit [Quit: ikki] 01:54:42 O for a grayer beard 02:00:25 wow, I didn't even know about the bit-* functions 02:02:12 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:02:47 i found the analogues interesting. it hadn't occured to me. 02:03:11 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.251.166] has joined #lisp 02:03:39 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-101-125.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:04:54 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:07:26 sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.237.156] has joined #lisp 02:09:28 sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:10 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-101-125.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 02:10:15 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 02:13:11 the thread that comes from (which can be found in google groups) has more to say on the topic 02:14:06 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:14:07 http://bit.ly/14dkOrS might link to it 02:15:34 *Xach* uses bit-* in the search that helped him pinpoint that article quickly 02:16:04 kent pitman's comment is interesting there bhyde 02:16:42 madnificent: yeah. 02:20:29 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:30 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:21:23 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:22:19 graphics packages used to always have what I think the Mac's Quickdraw called "transfer mode" as a dynamic property of the drawing and that was originally which bit twiddle was used to; xor being very popular v.s. set. 02:24:03 bhyde: Porter-Duff compositing operators, if you want to be all academic about it 02:24:45 My first academic paper (on which I was the sole author - I was a precocious little scamp) showed how to use bit-twiddling with 2D bit-blitting hardware to render three-dimensional solid models of molecules. 02:25:22 bhyde: the original paper is an interesting read, if somewhat overly brief 02:28:12 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:12 Thomas Porter and Tom Duff. Compositing Digital Images. Computer Graphics, 02:29:13 18(3):253259, July 1984. ? 02:31:48 Good morning guys 02:32:06 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:05 What is the reason that I can bind a "let" variable to a memory location in a list, then setf that binding with a value and update the list, but I can't do the same when binding a name to a field in a structure|? 02:35:31 you're not setting the binding, you're altering part of the cons structure. 02:36:06 (let ((outer (list 1 2))) (let ((inner outer)) (push 4 inner)) outer) => (1 2) 02:36:07 Is their an analoguous way to update a structure? 02:36:34 there's nothing to analogize. 02:36:39 Maybe you want with-slots though. 02:38:27 Yes that looks like the functionality I desire. 02:38:29 Thanks. 02:39:19 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:40:20 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 02:42:11 Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 02:42:42 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:44:39 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:45:09 Bike, do you have a recommend reading that explains how that idea works? 02:45:12 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:45:20 I don't really understand how I'm accessing memory I think. 02:45:42 It's just lexical binding, I don't think I know of any papers, but I could probably explain it. 02:46:13 Basically when you were talking about updating a list, you were thinking of something like (let ((outer (list 1 2))) (let ((inner outer)) (setf (car inner) 3)) outer), right? 02:46:27 (that returns (3 2)) 02:46:32 Yes. 02:46:48 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:47:15 The setf there isn't altering the variable binding, "inner". It's altering the cons that inner is bound to. 02:48:02 setf is a macro, and (setf (car inner) 3) expands to something like (progn (rplaca inner 3) 3) - the rplaca is a function that just modifies the cons itself. 02:48:21 sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:25 Okay. 02:48:56 Whereas when you do (push 4 inner), that expands to something like (setf inner (car 4 inner)), which in turn expands to (setq inner (car 4 inner)). That does alter the binding, rather than the cons itself. 02:49:42 And when you do with-slots, that makes the names of the slots symbol macros. So something like (setf slot 4) in a with-slots will actually expand to (setf (slot-access...) 4), which then alters the struture itself. 02:49:59 Gotcha. 02:52:23 In standard CL is it ever necessary to change the metaclass of a class? 02:52:42 I don't see anything about it in the CLHS. 02:52:44 -!- re-enact85 [~re-enact8@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:52:55 Uh... maybe you could change-class the class? 02:53:10 back on boole and transfer mode and life in pre 1984 black and white GUIs  here's a fragment of the quickdraw doc showing the transfer modes - http://www.mactech.com/macintosh-c/images/12image04.gif 02:53:24 pretty. 02:53:30 simpler times 02:53:45 I wonder if you could do something nasty to hack up hashlife renders. 02:53:50 change-class the class - let me take a look at that. 02:55:52 -!- pmai [~Thunderbi@178-27-46-208-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:56:19 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host61.186-109-108.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:57:31 k0001 [~k0001@host119.181-1-201.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:57:51 In ECL (change-class (find-class 'built-in-class) (find-class 'standard-object)) ---> SIMPLE-ERROR The metaclass of a class metaobject cannot be changed. 02:58:20 In SBCL it accepts it but a subsequent (find-class 'standard-object) --> # 02:58:22 yeah, i vaguely remember some restriction like that in amop. 02:58:48 re-enact85 [~re-enact8@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:59 Also, AMOP states what the metaclasses of all of the AMOP classes must be - so we shouldn't be able to change them. 02:59:11 change-class is a weird thing. 03:00:42 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:00:47 Well, I'm about to make it illegal in my implementation as well. I decided to change the ECL code to use CLASSP where appropriate - it's a bit of a hack for ECL to use instances to represent classes. I have separate objects that represent classes so I might as well use them and not pretend they are members of the "instance" type. 03:01:18 I'm not criticizing ECL mind you, it works. 03:04:50 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:36 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 03:08:59 Hmmm, FUNCALLABLE-STANDARD-CLASS and FORWARD-REFERENCED-CLASS aren't mentioned in the CLHS - are they standard CL? 03:09:20 nope. 03:09:29 AMOP defines a lot of things like that. 03:09:41 and CL doesn't, for instance methods don't have to be standard-objects even. 03:10:02 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:21 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 03:11:32 What is the metaclass of each of FUNCALLABLE-STANDARD-CLASS and FORWARD-REFERENCED-CLASS supposed to be? 03:12:03 er, if a class is a funcallable-standard-class then... that's it's class... 03:12:16 wait, my misunderstanding. 03:12:23 No, I mean the meta-class of FUNCALLABLE-STANDARD-CLASS 03:12:28 I'll go get my copy of AMOP 03:13:00 Crap I left it in my office at work. 03:13:21 well (find-class 'sb-mop:funcallable-standard-class) => # at least 03:13:35 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:56 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 03:14:04 Oh well, there you go - just ask one of the half dozen CL implementations I have. 03:14:24 ccl agrees. 2 out of six is basically standard, right? 03:15:04 teggi [~teggi@113.172.59.16] has joined #lisp 03:15:36 Sure, I'll go with that. It's also easy - I already have a StandardClass class.... class 03:16:25 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:16:34 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@87.114.149.18] has quit [Quit: impomatic] 03:20:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:27:04 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:45 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:28 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:40:18 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 03:43:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:53 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:44:29 -!- erikc [~erikc@CPE00222d53fe78-CM00222d53fe75.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: erikc] 03:47:25 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 03:49:59 zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-167-168.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 03:50:44 sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-4-63.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:51:36 -!- Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:54:02 does anyone know how to compile/get clisp with ffi support on os x? 03:54:20 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:55:27 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:59:04 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:59:54 tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 04:02:32 sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:45 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:05:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:07:20 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 04:10:22 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:37 sellout-1 [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:07 replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:41 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:13:43 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:54 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:14:35 Is it possible to export a CFFI defcstruct from the package that defines it? 04:15:56 -!- tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:17:30 -!- sellout-1 [~Adium@75-147-19-61-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:18:23 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.174.75] has joined #lisp 04:19:55 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 04:21:15 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:23:40 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:52 -!- replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:26:37 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:a9ed:5c71:a122:b864] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:27:43 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:33 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.174.75] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:10 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 04:31:37 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:32:55 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:59 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:05 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:40:20 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 04:42:05 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 04:43:50 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:48:25 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:52:19 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:11 i do love when customers sponsor compiler work 04:59:16 sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 05:07:04 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 05:11:10 -!- postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:33 vsync: I love that as well, it is a good thing when it happens! :) 05:17:46 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:56 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 05:22:10 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 05:23:59 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:26:41 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:37:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-207.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:45:21 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.251.166] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:49:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.32] has joined #lisp 05:49:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.32] has quit [Changing host] 05:49:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:54:20 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:57:32 akovalen` [~user@95.72.44.130] has joined #lisp 05:59:10 -!- akovalenko [~user@77.51.3.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:59:14 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 06:01:17 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:39 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 06:05:14 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:05:48 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.213.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:05:57 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 06:07:13 Good way to make money and promote Lisp at the same time: Lisp alien soft toy 06:09:32 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:10:22 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 06:10:23 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:21 I can envision a wide market in the fabulously gay community, perhaps. 06:14:19 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:21:02 v_ [~v@202.153.189.136] has joined #lisp 06:21:04 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:17 qyqx [3b98fabe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.59.152.250.190] has joined #lisp 06:24:18 foeniks [~fevon@p5083F556.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:12 lol 06:27:57 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:28:34 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:29:30 Hi guys, 06:29:33 How can I make a function by using a list as its body? Thanks. 06:29:43 i.e. 06:29:52 (setf lst1 '(let ((a 1) (b 2)) (+ a b))) (mk-func lst1) should generate: #'(lambda () (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (+ a b))) 06:30:02 (setf lst1 '(let ((a 1) (b 2)) (+ a b))) 06:30:05 qyqx: See: macro. 06:30:08 (mk-func lst1) 06:30:10 (coerce `(lambda () ,body) 'function) 06:30:11 should generate: #'(lambda () (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (+ a b))) 06:30:27 Don't use coerce -- compile, perhaps. 06:30:28 which is basically eval. 06:30:45 But first look into macros. 06:30:52 I want to avoid eval in this case. 06:31:42 Check out macrolet. 06:31:53 but I need the value of lst1, so I cannot use macro. 06:32:10 eval is what you're asking for (which isn't to say that you shouldn't avoid it) 06:33:02 So, use macroexpand. 06:33:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:33:08 What actual problem are you trying to solve here? 06:33:17 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 06:34:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:35:13 I write a lisp-like language using cl, I want enter the cl world sometimes. 06:35:30 So, what actual problem are you trying to solve here? 06:35:35 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:35:47 -!- v_ [~v@202.153.189.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:59 You want to take an expression written in your language that happens to overlap with CL, and get a CL function from it? 06:37:17 (define-var a (cl-expr (+ *g_var1* *g_var2*))) 06:37:31 Whats wrong with something like: 06:37:32 (defmacro make-function (&body body) 06:37:32 (lambda () 06:37:32 body)) 06:37:35 Followed by: 06:37:39 (defparameter *x* '(let ((a 1) (b 2)) (+ a b))) 06:37:42 (make-function *x*) 06:37:57 ohnoitsavram: please do not post code to the channel. use paste.lisp.org 06:38:06 macro is canonical way 06:39:45 qyqx: Do you compile your language to CL? 06:39:55 H4ns: Sorry, I'm an IRC newbie 06:40:25 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 06:40:28 clhs newbie :) 06:40:28 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for newbie :). 06:41:37 ohnoitsavram: how do you call (make-function *x*) ? 06:43:10 (funcall (make-function *x*)) ==>(*x*) 06:43:44 qyqx: Do you compile your language to CL? 06:43:48 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:43:53 no 06:44:14 Zhivago: no 06:44:14 Then I suggest that you use COMPILE to build a function object dynamically. 06:46:08 Zhivago: thanks, I will check that. 06:47:01 Zhivago: But at first I need create that function. 06:47:16 Zhivago: then can I compile it. 06:47:22 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@64-71-23-226.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 06:47:22 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@64-71-23-226.static.wiline.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:47:22 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:47:28 Are you familiar with backquote notation? 06:47:31 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:55 I think I know little bit about it. 06:48:05 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ef3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:08 (let ((name 'you)) `(hello ,name)) 06:48:47 Zhivago: But as just said, I need expand lst1 at run-time. 06:49:03 (compile nil lst1) 06:49:22 or rather (compile nil `(lambda () ,lst1)) 06:49:58 what's the difference between compile and eval, which I want to avoid? 06:50:00 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.159.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:14 Bike: what's the difference between compile and eval, which I want to avoid? 06:50:15 compile compiles. 06:50:23 Why do you want to avoid eval? 06:50:39 Backquote operates at run-time. 06:51:40 Zhivago: but how can I use backquote to construct my mk-func? 06:51:42 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:51:54 Did you understand my example? 06:51:58 `(lambda () ,list) is just shorthand for (list 'lambda () list) 06:52:37 Zhivago: Thanks, let me try it. 06:53:06 Then try (let ((names '(you me))) `(hello ,@names)) 06:53:29 Bike: since they said eval is evil: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2571401/why-exactly-is-eval-evil 06:53:51 Eval is not evil, but it is, perhaps, promiscuous. 06:53:54 Yes, but it's pretty much exactly what you're asking for. 06:54:29 Zhivago: I know that, should I wrap them in a function ? 06:54:34 Though you're using it in a restricted way, which sort of mitigates the promiscuity. 06:54:53 I would use functions to delay evaluation, and perhaps parameterize. 06:55:12 In this case, there's no upside to eval over compile that I can see. 06:56:08 v_ [~v@113.196.70.174] has joined #lisp 06:56:08 -!- seangrov` [~user@182.221.39.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:57:39 Zhivago: if I wrap (let ((names '(you me))) `(hello ,@names)) in a function, it will return a list. 06:58:03 Zhivago: If I wrap it in a macro, how can I expand lst1 ? 06:59:10 With macroexpand. 06:59:22 But if you just want a list, there's no need to use a macro. 07:00:18 (let ((y 2)) (compile 'my-operator `(lambda (x) (+ x ,y)))) 07:00:34 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:44 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.209.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:07:30 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.93.53] has joined #lisp 07:07:57 I paste code and explaination at http://paste.lisp.org/+2X1U 07:07:59 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:26 Zhivago: what's the advantage about compile over eval? 07:08:44 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:06 It doesn't do everything. 07:09:10 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:11 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:09:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ie] 07:09:32 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 07:10:25 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 07:10:32 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:10:43 Generally it's safest to use the most constraint mechanism that gets the job done. 07:10:50 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: CHUNGA-1.1.5, Hunchentoot 1.2.15, SBCL 1.1.5, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7 07:11:19 er, constrained. 07:12:42 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-217-7-89.lnse1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:12:57 Zhivago: but at this case, I need generate a function and run it. Is there any difference bewteen the function is compiled or not? 07:13:23 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:13:33 And what does compile do? 07:13:41 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:14:09 seangrov` [~user@182.221.39.188] has joined #lisp 07:14:56 The main difference is that it must macroexpand everything first. 07:15:25 Eval can play silly buggers with late macroexpansion. 07:15:38 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:15:58 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:06 -!- burrows [~burrows@cpe-75-187-53-43.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:16:12 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:17:03 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:17:49 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 07:17:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.204.241.117] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 07:18:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:19:22 Zhivago: Thanks a lot. 07:19:36 You're welcome. 07:20:50 -!- rotty [rotty@78.47.92.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:20:55 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:08 Re: that macro I posted earlier. It would require eval to work as expected. Unless you passed the quoted form directly to the macro. This makes sense because macros don't evaluate run time arguments, but can expand to a form which does. 07:22:09 tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 07:24:07 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:25:19 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-69-201.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:27:40 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:30:25 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:30:37 ohnoitsavram: Thanks for your explanation. 07:31:35 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ghmgphtnhfykcxbw] has joined #lisp 07:33:48 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:34:40 momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.76] has joined #lisp 07:35:47 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:39:43 leo2007 [~leo@221.204.241.119] has joined #lisp 07:40:22 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 07:41:21 Zhivago: I paste the solution at http://paste.lisp.org/+2X1U/1 Could you help me to check it, just make sure I understand what your means? 07:41:44 -!- ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@221.204.241.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:14 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:18 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:46:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:52 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:59 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 07:47:14 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p5083F556.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:48:12 Hi all. Question is about CAPI. There are three spinboxes in column-layout. How can I adjust they by width, so that they fill all place? 07:48:51 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:48:51 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.228.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:49:12 qypx: Well, you can't have a macro and a function with the same name. 07:49:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.93.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49:54 asvil: your question would better be placed in the lisphug mailing list. 07:50:48 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:51:32 H4ns: ok 07:52:05 asvil: as a quick guess, does :ratios '(1 1 1) work? 07:52:12 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53:25 qyqx: it's better to avoid both eval and compile at run-time, they're too heavy weight, one solution is to use chained closures 07:53:45 cl-ppcre goes that route 07:53:54 qyqx: http://xach.livejournal.com/131456.html 07:55:32 mal_: no, spinboxes have default size (about 30px) and are places in center 07:56:09 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:56:15 mal_: after I have applied your suggestion 07:59:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:01:06 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:30 -!- seangrov` [~user@182.221.39.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:08:29 ok, :visible-max-width :screen-width for all spinboxes solved the problem 08:10:25 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 08:11:02 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:11:06 quick question on push/setf, according to the hyperspec push is the same as (setf place (cons item place)). is it possible to use abstractions for place instead of primitives? i've tried (defun foo (list) (third list)), but i can't use it with push, debugger says (setf foo) is undefined (obviously...). 08:11:50 you have to define (defun (setf foo) (value list) (setf (third list) value)) 08:11:58 either use (defmacro foo (list) `(third ,list)) or define (setf foo) 08:12:59 which one would be "good practice"? is it ok to define a macro in this instance? 08:13:43 it's the usual: if you can make it a function, make it a function 08:14:28 thanks 08:14:29 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:14:37 if you want to pick apart a list with named members, I'd go for defining a struct with :type 'list. That will automagically define the accessors for you 08:15:25 or use the structure altogether and not lists 08:15:35 mal_: just mind end up doing that, using alists at the moment 08:15:59 or classes 08:20:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:21:48 -!- teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:22:06 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.164.123] has joined #lisp 08:22:20 abeaumont [~abeaumont@219.Red-79-150-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:22:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:19 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 08:25:15 nha [~prefect@koln-5d816a7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:13 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:26:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:26:48 Yuuhi` [benni@pD9F98060.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:56 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 08:28:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:24 -!- Yuuhi [benni@pD9F98885.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:29:26 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.130] has joined #lisp 08:32:06 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:15 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.168.112] has joined #lisp 08:32:25 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:32:25 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:32:25 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:34:08 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 08:34:24 seangrov` [~user@182.221.39.188] has joined #lisp 08:35:33 quazimodo [~quazimodo@202.124.74.54] has joined #lisp 08:35:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:36:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.32] has joined #lisp 08:36:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.184.32] has quit [Changing host] 08:36:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:36:26 -!- momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:38:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:39:35 -!- v_ [~v@113.196.70.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:40:26 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 08:44:05 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:06 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host119.181-1-201.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:44:40 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:44:54 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.175] has joined #lisp 08:45:21 lotabout [~zhangjinz@222.190.117.217] has joined #lisp 08:46:26 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:46:37 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@202.124.74.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:51:09 babith [~chatzilla@202.76.243.10] has joined #lisp 08:52:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:54:06 -!- babith [~chatzilla@202.76.243.10] has left #lisp 09:00:15 v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has joined #lisp 09:01:47 -!- lotabout [~zhangjinz@222.190.117.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:03:44 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.168.112] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:06:24 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:22 hey 09:08:55 i have some lisp books. and not many CL books. will learning lisp be ok to learn CL? or is there a major difference? 09:09:13 what kind of lisp books? 09:09:24 theos: you need cl books if you want to learn cl 09:09:35 k0001 [~k0001@host119.181-1-201.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 09:09:40 theos: Check which dialect the lisp books teach. 09:09:54 theos: otherwise your learning experience will be worse because you'll certainly see cl behave differently than what the book expects 09:09:55 ah so each dialect is totally different? 09:10:08 No. They overlap to a large extent. 09:10:10 thanks. i get the idea :) 09:10:18 theos: no. but different enough to make learning one dialect with a book written for a different dialect pretty hard 09:10:19 theos: can you tell us which books are you talking about? 09:10:25 But when starting out those differences can be frustrating. 09:10:41 stassats yes. i am searching 09:10:42 theos: also, lisps considerably vary in what is idiomatic for each dialect 09:10:54 e.g., (defun foo (x) (+ x 1)) vs. (define (foo x) (+ x 1)) etc. 09:11:11 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.237.156] has left #lisp 09:11:19 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:12:54 i guess lisp books focus on CL mostly. like i have this book by david cooper. "basic lisp techniques" 09:12:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:14:11 theos: that works best if you use allegro cl to learn 09:14:32 theos: i liked it. it was what i first used. 09:14:35 H4ns is it a dialect of CL? 09:14:44 theos: no, an implementation of cl 09:14:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:14:52 H4ns like SBCL? 09:14:55 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:14:56 theos: right 09:15:28 :D i use SBCL because a lot of people here suggested that. will try allegro cl too thanks 09:15:59 theos: allegro cl is a commercial product. sbcl is free software. 09:16:26 H4ns does it have any advantages over SBCL? 09:16:40 i tried clisp but didnt get it much 09:16:40 allegro costs money and the one that is free has ridiculous memory limits 09:17:06 SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 09:17:07 clisp is fine for learning. 09:17:07 theos: you get commercial support and a lot of built-in libraries. 09:17:49 stassats there is a book "interpreting lisp" by Gary Knott. its not on CL 09:19:20 H4ns ok when i reach that level, i would be happy to get commercial support. till that time i will bug you guys :s 09:19:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003bc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:30 -!- v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:19:33 theos: then use sbcl 09:19:35 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:07 minion: please tell theos about PCL 09:20:07 theos: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 09:20:08 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:18 you can read it online 09:20:21 stassats thanks. i do have pcl 09:20:39 so, why do you want to read the books from the 80s then? 09:22:03 stassats no offense to the author, but its more of a "getting things done" book imo. old books focus more on teaching you 09:22:10 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:22:53 if you know another language PCL is a gem 09:23:07 minion: gentle? 09:23:08 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 09:23:47 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24:31 huh, there's even a new edition 09:24:49 dt770 [dt770@c-411ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:25:02 Its a reprint not a new edition AFAIK 09:26:11 i didnt mean that pcl is tough to understand. its very easy book. its good. i am looking for books like On Lisp by mr graham. 09:26:13 "This 2013 edition includes roughly two dozen corrections... with the arrival of ANSI Common Lisp as the official standard, and the availability of several good open source implementations, Lisp will remain an important language for years to come." 09:28:29 maybe i should be content with what i have. and start reading :D 09:32:03 and play at the repl a lot too 09:32:15 and of course find yourself a project to implement 09:32:56 Devon [~Devon@123.136.15.173] has joined #lisp 09:33:40 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 09:33:49 ck__ [~ck@dslb-094-218-254-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:18 -!- naeg|afk [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:34:25 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 09:36:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host119.181-1-201.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:38:24 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:38:42 v_ [~v@202.153.186.114] has joined #lisp 09:38:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:27 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:40:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:40:40 naeg|afk [~naeg@170-18-182-46.NbIServ.com] has joined #lisp 09:40:50 yea 09:48:17 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-24-6-156-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:49:10 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-24-6-156-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:26 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:51:32 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:54:28 KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:54:28 -!- KingNato_ [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:56:05 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - 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Nothing really strange here, Smalltalk taught us that everything's an object. 11:25:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:26:33 Zhivago: there are three ways to convert a lambda list into a function: eval, compile and coerce. They both have their use: eval will interpret if an interpreter is available. compile will perform minimal compilation at least. coerce will do what's the best for the implementation (compile or interpret). Therefore for some run-time generated functions, coerce is probably the best choice. 11:26:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:26:50 (I tend to use compile). 11:31:12 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:33:23 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:34:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:01 -!- pmai [~Thunderbi@2001:470:1f15:3df:190a:1848:8cdc:9792] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:36:30 pmai [~Thunderbi@2001:470:1f15:3df:190a:1848:8cdc:9792] has joined #lisp 11:49:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has joined #lisp 11:49:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has quit [Changing host] 11:49:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:51:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:53:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:55:20 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host119.181-1-201.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:58:01 j303 [~x@ns2306746.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:03 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:10 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:00:26 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:01:39 wow ccl compiles fast! 12:03:27 i installed it now and it just works, great now i got 3 compilers to play with :) 12:04:19 :) 12:09:37 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:10:21 so many compilers! 12:10:31 them compilers 12:11:16 has CL changed a lot from 1989 to 2013? i have a book by mr guy steele. and its kinda old :) 12:11:45 theos: might be enough to start, but look into "practical common lisp" 12:11:47 minion: pcl? 12:11:48 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 12:12:14 p_l pcl vs CLtL2? 12:12:42 None of those talks much about compilers, do they? I have not read any of them in a while. 12:12:45 theos: some things have changed. 12:12:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:38 Xach major changes? 12:14:44 theos: pcl is tutorial, CLtL2 is handbook 12:15:25 cltl2 is an outdated handbook 12:15:26 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is an outdated handbook. 12:15:37 a nice read, but outdated 12:15:42 oh 12:15:54 why dont they update it? 12:16:12 theos: there is a document that describes CL as it is now 12:16:13 ccl really deserves some publicity, all i hear is sbcl! ccl also great, needs some love :) 12:16:17 who is "they"? 12:16:31 the authors. who else :) 12:16:45 the authors wrote a book 24 years ago 12:16:59 and? 12:17:14 why _should_ they update it? 12:17:22 because its outdated 12:17:23 theos probably ran out of money 12:17:44 theos: I suggest you question your assumptions 12:18:05 asvil probably 12:18:32 theos: CLtL was a book related to CL standardization process 12:18:32 Krystof i didnt say it. other people said its outdated 12:18:40 theos: the replacement would be Hyperspec 12:18:48 (or the printed ANSI standard) 12:18:56 yes. the assumption I'm suggesting you question is that just because something is outdated gives a reason for the authors to update it 12:19:09 it's not exactly the same, nor update, but you can't expect update to what was a snapshot of ongoing standardization 12:19:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:19:48 especially from people who probably don't work with Lisp anymore, not to mention the rather small market (both in terms of clients *and* publishers) 12:19:56 Krystof why are getting annoyed? are you one of the authors? :P 12:20:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:20:20 theos: no, it just came of as whining 12:20:42 p_l oh. whining from him or me? 12:20:45 Maybe some sort of FAQ about CLtL and what it is and isn't would be a nice thing. It really is a FAQ! 12:20:51 I'm not (yet) annoyed, but your messages come across as demanding that other people do work to make your life maximally convenient 12:22:12 ah. you got the wrong idea there. i was trying to say that CL is such an epic language. and those guys who wrote such great books were legends. why did they stop writing/updating such great books? 12:22:19 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:22:37 -!- re-enact85 [~re-enact8@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:23:15 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 that's a naive view of how and why books are written 12:24:33 well profit is the main motivation, i know that part. 12:25:07 -!- seangrov` [~user@182.221.39.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27:05 I'm surrounded by people who uses json for all kinds of data communication between services. Is it just because they use js and python, or is it used anything by someone coding services in lisp? 12:27:28 I had totally missed the existence of json... 12:27:35 there are at least 3 cl json libraries 12:27:52 I think it's popular because it is slightly more human-readable than xml 12:27:57 I've seen them (now when I started looking) 12:28:20 Cymew: I think json is used in many places because it's fairly simple and covers a lot of use-cases where previously someone might have reached for XML. 12:28:20 Anything is more readable than xml. ;) 12:28:37 So it's basically xml v2? 12:28:46 theos: the second edition sometimes seems like "diff" between first edition and standard, it was not easy for newbie to learn language with it 12:28:47 i can make anything unreadable in no time 12:28:59 Cymew: no, it has different goals from xml 12:29:02 stassats: More power to you. ;) 12:29:23 asvil ok thanks 12:30:03 xml, json.. about 50 years or so they'll use lisp 12:30:14 I've found that even though there are multiple cl libraries, it doesn't mean they are used much. 12:30:30 nan_: They all do make you think of s-exps, right? 12:30:31 re-enact85 [~re-enact8@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:07 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ghmgphtnhfykcxbw] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:31:11 I guess the reason to use json is to be on a common ground with stuff implemented in other languages, instead of relying on s-exps? 12:31:19 Cymew: not just that, they started with an ugly s-expr and approaching to lisp code :P 12:31:48 Cymew: json started out because it was much more convenient in JS webapps than XML, then spiraled out 12:32:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:32:21 It seems popular among python guys around me... 12:33:00 It is popular because it is not called s-expr, it has a fancy name 12:33:06 Cymew: once JSON got a bit more standardized, it was quick on the uptake (the original was "let's export data that can be evaluated by JS!") 12:33:13 so kinda like S-expressions in lisp 12:33:15 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:18 Interesting 12:34:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:36:56 A sample on its wikipedia page ends with }}}}} (yes 5 of them) but it is not ugly as braces you see! 12:39:26 impomatic [~digital_w@87.114.149.18] has joined #lisp 12:39:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@219.Red-79-150-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:29 knob [~anon@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:40:42 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-234-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:56 Good morning everyone =) 12:41:46 knob: good morning. 12:41:47 foreignFunction1 [~niksaak@94.27.88.105] has joined #lisp 12:42:14 -!- 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14:17:07 erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has joined #lisp 14:19:56 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-41.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:13 kanru` [~kanru@111.249.147.169] has joined #lisp 14:31:13 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 14:31:28 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:28 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-wxrlofstbwhozbii] has joined #lisp 14:33:09 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:11 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:18 nan_: You might have notice that those } are all on different lines. Much better than having them all after one another, clearly. 14:34:08 mrSpec [~Spec@80.123.140.214] has joined #lisp 14:34:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@80.123.140.214] has quit [Changing host] 14:34:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:35:00 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:06 -!- stat_vi_ [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-100.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:36:18 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:39:22 __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:31 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:17 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:44:39 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-411ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Hihi] 14:45:04 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:48:14 malines [~marcus@c-65-96-16-126.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:26 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003bc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:50:59 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:51:00 Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has joined #lisp 14:51:19 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:54:07 I am happy to see %MAP-FOR-EFFECT-ARITY-1 in my stack trace. :) 14:54:10 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 14:54:59 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:22 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:28 -!- agumonkey [~agu@8.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:00:36 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:00:36 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:00:36 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:00:47 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:23 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:07:08 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:07:14 what a warm feeling that can be 15:07:35 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:10:30 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:55 vy [58fff5fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.255.245.252] has joined #lisp 15:12:01 Is it possible to upload an image to cliki? 15:12:37 no 15:14:10 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:14:21 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.89] has joined #lisp 15:15:30 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:36 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #lisp 15:17:22 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:19:49 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 15:20:11 fe[nl]ix: Thanks. 15:22:50 vy: ascii-art: M-x artist-mode RET 15:23:33 http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/10949/ASCII-Art-Generator 15:26:34 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-35.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 15:28:14 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.98.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:30:18 rotty [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 15:30:58 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has joined #lisp 15:32:18 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:33:08 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has joined #lisp 15:36:53 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:37:36 -!- vy [58fff5fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.255.245.252] has left #lisp 15:40:33 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 15:41:24 -!- Thra11 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zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:40:35 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 17:41:39 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:18 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:44:09 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:21 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 17:47:42 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 17:51:22 TML [~joey@unaffiliated/tml] has joined #lisp 17:51:51 So if ASDF is obsolete, but quicklisp is in beta, is there a 3rd solution to help me download/install lisp packages? 17:52:16 asdf is obsolete? since when? 17:52:17 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:52:27 Sorry, correction: asdf-install 17:52:29 asdf-install is obsolete. 17:52:31 Not ASDF itself :) 17:52:33 quicklisp is the right thing 17:53:17 TML: quicklisp beta works better than asdf-install ever did. I've not run into any significant issues with it 17:53:18 even though it declares itself as only being "a public beta"? 17:53:23 ok 17:54:08 beta like gmail 17:55:25 beta like google reader 17:55:27 -!- ncw [ncw@conference/pycon/x-gahlpdtpdtjlrmpb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:40 Xach: oh noes, is that a threat? (: 17:55:47 alama [~jessealam@stgt-4d02cbc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:59 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-32.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:56:33 sellout- [~Adium@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:56:57 i need to focus on my self-spinning office chair so you never know 17:57:53 ncw [ncw@conference/pycon/x-iqsjokowixknipqs] has joined #lisp 18:01:05 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-32.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:01:20 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:01:54 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:02:33 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 18:02:50 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@64.128.85.190] has quit [] 18:03:04 findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 18:04:01 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-157-171.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:40 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:06:54 -!- trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:07:46 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:00 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:08:44 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:09:27 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has joined #lisp 18:10:34 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 18:11:36 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@24.56.241.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:12:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:14:06 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-4d02cbc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:14:48 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16:46 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:17:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:23:51 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:42 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:47 well, asdf is obsolete, too, but there isn't a universal replacement yet 18:28:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:28:56 I mean, common lisp is obsolete 18:29:15 common lisp is understood, too 18:29:22 "Every technique is first developed, then used, important, obsolete, normalized, and finally understood." 18:30:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:31:01 I don't think something can be obsolete until there is a satisfactory replacement 18:31:19 Perhaps xcvb makes asdf obsolete for some use cases though 18:31:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:48 asdf has a cool name though 18:33:12 Fare: btw why xcvb and not zxcv? 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19:04:18 yes ((: 19:05:09 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has joined #lisp 19:05:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:05:10 do you have a CL library ready for use ? 19:06:29 oops, I shouldn't have asked 19:06:35 there it is 19:07:25 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003bc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:10:05 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.56] has joined #lisp 19:10:15 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD1FFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:35 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:12:21 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.56] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:33 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboi126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:13:44 Fare: i'm not opposed to a new interface for thread creation. discussing and reviewing will be easier with a patch than with random code snippets, though. if you could, please? 19:14:00 Fare: preferably on github, of course 19:14:11 sure, I can do it. 19:14:22 Same file taskmaster.lisp, or in a different file? 19:14:36 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:14:46 Fare: if the gf is specialized on the taskmaster class, then in taskmaster.lisp 19:15:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:15:15 ok. 19:16:04 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:16:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:17:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-207.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:38 leo2007 [~leo@221.204.241.118] has joined #lisp 19:20:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:20:55 H4ns: I'm trying to view your ECLM talk "#define BEGIN", but the background noise is awkward. 19:21:06 do you have the presentation for download somewhere? 19:21:17 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:21:37 hypestar [~user@2805ds5-fb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 19:21:45 -!- hypestar [~user@2805ds5-fb.0.fullrate.dk] has left #lisp 19:21:48 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.164.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:29:13 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:08 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-109-64-134-164.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:32:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:16 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-32.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:34:29 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.56] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 -!- ncw [ncw@conference/pycon/x-utqfkaqquxlavymk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:11 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 19:39:05 archonix [~archonix@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 19:39:28 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 19:41:08 is there some way to have a package imported in some reader scope, eg. within a DEFUN? 19:41:43 something already existing, I can write that myself via reader macros, of course. 19:43:26 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:44:06 bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has joined #lisp 19:44:14 BZaidan [~GreenLant@41.252.20.63] has joined #lisp 19:45:03 ncw [ncw@conference/pycon/x-fjncgwdyikmuxypl] has joined #lisp 19:48:18 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:50:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:51:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-41.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:51:56 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:23 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:40 H4ns: https://github.com/edicl/hunchentoot/pull/52 19:54:51 (and thanks for the support) 19:56:10 never mind, imported audio into audacity and put some notch filters on it. 19:58:00 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@pD9F98060.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:58:38 k0001 [~k0001@host8.190-224-62.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:59:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:31 -!- BZaidan [~GreenLant@41.252.20.63] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:20 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:07:48 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 20:09:14 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:09:17 bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has joined #lisp 20:10:06 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host8.190-224-62.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:11:48 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 20:12:17 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-154-138.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:15:07 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:15:15 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 20:15:15 Can you not use deftypes in method specializers? :-( 20:15:26 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-99-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:15:46 normanrichards [~normanric@67.139.65.163] has joined #lisp 20:16:15 you have to use classes, not types, yes 20:16:21 Drat. Thanks Bike. 20:16:26 subtypes don't have a precedence list like classes do 20:16:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:17:26 *redline6561* uses etypecase 20:17:56 embrace the defmethod 20:18:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:18:56 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@50.12.146.82] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 20:19:00 redline6561: etypecase imposes a left to right order on clauses, you don't have that for methods. 20:19:32 Left to right order is acceptable in this case. 20:20:19 just trying to explain the reasoning. 20:20:37 -!- sastrone [~tyoverby@205.175.97.207] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:21:05 etypecase is only extensible by writing more clauses inline, which is what bothers me about it :) 20:22:07 Sure. I am almost certainly only dealing with u8 and u16 values so can't use classes anyhow. 20:23:25 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:37 <|3b|> you can always build a list of functions to call if you need extensible type discrimination 20:25:22 ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:32:59 <_schulte_> do I need to use a library if I want to write files with specific permissions (e.g., executable)? 20:33:46 _schulte_: Either a library or some implementation-specific feature. 20:34:23 <_schulte_> noted, thanks, I'm already using trivial-shell, so I may just use chmod 20:34:30 I don't know offhand what library might provide it. Maybe osicat? 20:34:35 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:34:54 <_schulte_> yea, that's what my preliminary googling indicates 20:35:58 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.86.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:20 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abod45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:40:07 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboi126.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:00 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:43:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:45:51 Does anyone have information about how Mirai or its predecessor S-geometry were programmed? 20:46:28 ASau [~user@46.115.86.86] has joined #lisp 20:46:33 The wikipedia article mentions the use of a winged edge data structure, but it does not offer citations. 20:47:53 k0001 [~k0001@host8.190-224-62.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:48:20 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@67.139.65.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:55 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:50:16 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@95.56.73.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:53:44 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:00 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-240-66.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:29 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:57:40 moai [~m@141.70.23.87] has joined #lisp 20:59:13 -!- archonix [~archonix@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:14 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:22 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 20:59:22 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 20:59:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:59:30 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:00:08 keithmantell [~user@cpc16-sotn8-2-0-cust290.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:54 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 21:04:07 tsetumel [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 21:04:32 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 21:04:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:18 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:07:53 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 21:08:02 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-faaqzeubsrlhgqip] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:08:51 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:09:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:09:48 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:09:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:11:23 -!- ncw [ncw@conference/pycon/x-fjncgwdyikmuxypl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:39 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:11:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:11:52 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:12:35 -!- Gurragchaa_ [uid6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bvljfbwskrqmfxnq] has quit [] 21:13:24 k0001_ [~k0001@host102.190-229-215.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:16:17 <|3b|> ohnoitsavram: i've tried and failed a few times to find any interesting details about s-graphics 21:16:26 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Changing host] 21:16:26 Tanami [~carnage@unaffiliated/tanami] has joined #lisp 21:16:35 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host8.190-224-62.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:17:43 ikki [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/ikki] has joined #lisp 21:19:38 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:22:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:23:32 jasom: xcvb works both on qwerty and azerty keyboards. 21:23:44 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:24:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-88.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:32 -!- keithmantell [~user@cpc16-sotn8-2-0-cust290.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:38 pjb: :) 21:26:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-180.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:23 k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-242.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:29:43 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host102.190-229-215.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:55 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 21:34:39 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abod45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:34:59 AeroNotix [~xeno@abod45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:36:46 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD1FFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:37 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75ef3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:42 -!- tsetumel [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:15 -!- techlife [~jimmy@218.59.113.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:38:33 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.209.89] has joined #lisp 21:38:49 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-98-202-60-177.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:28 -!- erikc [~erikc@209.20.28.194] has quit [Quit: erikc] 21:41:18 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:42:05 -!- ohnoitsavram [~user@CPE-60-225-105-159.hhui3.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:42:21 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:6888:1838:478c:1454] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:29 danlentz_ [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:6888:1838:478c:1454] has joined #lisp 21:42:50 -!- j303 [~x@ns2306746.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:24 What's current recommendation for a unit-test library that works under CCL? 21:44:32 techlife [techlife@218.59.113.120] has joined #lisp 21:44:40 I like NST, but it doesn't load under CCL and I'm not up for debugging that today. 21:45:05 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:46:32 tjos [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 21:46:35 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has joined #lisp 21:48:02 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:24 -!- asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-kharsfpshvhdudik] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:50:12 asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-btzhvzcvjbvujuxy] has joined #lisp 21:51:55 5am and cl-test-more are the ones on my TODO list 21:52:26 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:11 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has joined #lisp 21:53:31 dnolen [~user@97-115-20-36.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:35 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:54 fiveam's nice and easy 21:53:55 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:12 -!- sellout- [~Adium@nomad.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.105.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:13 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:00:37 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:46 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:06 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:03:11 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:01 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 22:04:15 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:05:49 -!- asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-btzhvzcvjbvujuxy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:18 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:31 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-gygftqfcyouxocfh] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:07:07 *drewc* likes CL:ASSERT, but actually is writing a test suite today and has to look into it more. 22:07:11 asedeno [asedeno@nat/google/x-jfatdcpuokgqyupb] has joined #lisp 22:07:14 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:08:00 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:10:31 that said, I will likely use SB-RT, but i have used 5am in the past, and it has moved on in the last 5 years or so, so I should look at it again. 22:11:02 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:04 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 22:16:15 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003bc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:18:48 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:28 *drewc* adds "#+quicklisp (ql:quickload '(drakma cxml closure-html fiveam))" to the top of his test suite file 22:23:23 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:24:04 npoektop [~npoektop@176.195.22.139] has joined #lisp 22:24:29 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@176.195.22.139] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:03 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:32:03 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:00 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.159.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:33:58 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 22:34:43 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:13 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:37:38 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:37:41 postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:08 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has joined #lisp 22:43:22 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:43:32 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:43:54 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 22:44:02 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.179.138] has joined #lisp 22:44:20 Symbol "WORD" not found in the SB-EXT package, (deftype counter-value () 'sb-ext:word 22:44:26 that's with sbcl 1.0.38 22:44:31 any idea how to solve? 22:44:45 get a newer sbcl? 22:44:54 I wish, not possible just now 22:45:20 it's just `(unsigned-byte ,sb!vm:n-word-bits)), you could probably define it yourself 22:45:43 ok 22:46:10 (deftype counter-value () `(unsigned-byte ,sb!vm:n-word-bits)) 22:46:12 that way then? 22:46:24 yeah. 22:46:40 -!- dnolen [~user@97-115-20-36.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:43 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:47:04 and sure enough package "SB!VM" not found ;) 22:47:56 sb-vm 22:49:54 -!- v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:50:19 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:50:19 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-69-201.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:50:20 works, but I'm still out of luck to compile lparallel on such an old sbcl 22:50:35 v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has joined #lisp 22:50:42 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:51:42 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-99-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:43 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 22:54:18 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:54:55 ; Evaluation aborted on #. 22:55:03 ok I'm out of luck tonight it seems 22:57:58 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-vvlthtokwpwnqnol] has joined #lisp 22:59:26 -!- v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:01 v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has joined #lisp 23:00:36 -!- v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:08 v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has joined #lisp 23:02:14 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-136-168.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 23:02:21 -!- v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has quit [Client Quit] 23:03:28 v_ [~v@61.173.89.166] has joined #lisp 23:03:52 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:04:00 SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 23:04:34 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-vvlthtokwpwnqnol] has quit [Quit: i am only as feeble as you make me be] 23:05:39 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:05:54 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.15.117] has joined #lisp 23:07:14 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:08:13 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:11:13 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-100.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:13:39 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.212.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:13:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.15.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:16:09 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-136-168.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:16:17 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:17:42 replcated [~user@24-217-97-210.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:49 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:19:23 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:21:59 Sorry for the repeat question. Had to log out prematurely last night. How do I export a CFFI defcstruct'd type so that it can be used in with-foreign-slots in another package. 23:22:39 just put the symbol in your export list? 23:23:47 Doesn't seem to work. I think it has something to do with CFFI appending -tstruct to it. The exported symbol has no class, function or other meaning in the other package. 23:24:31 what's the simplest way to replace a known string with another? 23:24:39 do I need some lib to do that, is that in the standard? 23:24:43 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:52 replace/subseq? 23:25:09 ahah, setf subseq it seems 23:26:10 well, no luck 23:26:34 no luck? 23:27:19 search is what I search 23:27:24 sorry it's late here 23:27:28 <|3b|> if you want to replace a substring with another string of different length, cl-ppcre is easiest way i can think of 23:27:47 mmm. ok. 23:28:17 <|3b|> or build it yourself with concatenate and subseq 23:28:28 I prefer using existing code 23:28:37 but I also prefer avoiding regexps 23:28:39 but well 23:28:59 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:41 The Common Lisp Cookbook has a 'replace-all' function. It also shows this: 23:29:49 ? (defparameter *str* "abcdefghijkl") 23:29:50 *STR* 23:29:52 ? (setf (subseq *str* 3 5) "xyz") 23:29:53 "xyz" 23:29:54 ? *str* 23:29:54 "abcxyfghijkl" 23:30:40 http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/strings.html 23:30:47 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.36.13] has joined #lisp 23:31:30 yeah but sizes must be the same right? 23:31:34 <|3b|> right, replacing with same-length string is easier 23:31:38 (cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all "(SELECT ad_id FROM ads_bloc_to_move)" query (format nil "~{~a~^,~}" ad-id-list)) 23:31:43 here that does the trick 23:32:14 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:32:51 Sizes have to be same for setf subseq to be useful, but the cookbook's replace-all function does better. 23:33:45 well cl-ppcre is ok, fast, and easily available 23:33:50 I'm happy enough for this night :) 23:33:58 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has joined #lisp 23:35:16 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:46 ncw [ncw@conference/pycon/x-ghhghtpphmldxhwl] has joined #lisp 23:37:49 -!- SKC [~shimoco@109.64.134.164] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:39:23 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 23:40:58 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:21 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abod45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:41:39 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.86.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:42 AeroNotix [~xeno@abod45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:41:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-130-176.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:45:06 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:45:25 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:48:11 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike