00:00:50 _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:50 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:00:50 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:02:12 slyrus, yes 00:02:17 plenty of them 00:02:21 now it is all popping back into my head ... Kendall Square and the area ... lots of great eats/drinks. but CBC is something I have to recommend because a) I have been there and b) CBC is Canadian Broadcasting Corporation as well 00:02:25 cuchi cuchi on main st is close to MIT 00:02:45 ah yes! 00:03:06 Fare will know better than I 00:03:07 there are plenty of places in Harvard Sq like Club Passim or Redbox 00:03:37 what day/time? 00:04:00 CBC is a good place to hang with friends, not to meet people 00:04:18 depends what you're looking for. When are you in Cambridge? 00:04:49 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:13 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5DC6367C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:05:20 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.23.121.238] has joined #lisp 00:05:35 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 00:06:58 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:06:59 ok, cuchi cuchi looks good 00:07:05 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:08 fare: now :) 00:07:13 insomniaSalt [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 00:07:18 and tomorrow night 00:07:22 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:07:44 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.23.122.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:07:44 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 00:08:00 we can meet tomorrow night 00:08:13 tonight, I'm too busy 00:08:20 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:08:38 slyrus: also, facing cuchi cuchi is my favorite restaurant, Salts. 00:09:33 ok, sounds like three good choices for two nights. tomorrow would be great. 00:12:35 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:13:07 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:14:37 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:15:14 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:17:16 -!- gst [~gst@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:18:47 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:20:39 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:20:48 skbierm [~skbierm@p4FEA02D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:23:21 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:25:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:36 Fare: ahh, Salts! that was what I was trying to remember 00:28:38 -!- skbierm [~skbierm@p4FEA02D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:07 and of course cuchi cuchi ... but IIRC, all the food places that I went to were great... but CBC I remember for Lisp meetings and, well, pints. 00:29:30 skbierm [~skbierm@p4FEA02D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:30:08 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:15 and lisp meetings being 'i dranks with lispers' rather than the organized lisp meetings, but you likely know that part :) 00:30:17 -!- skbierm [~skbierm@p4FEA02D5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:29 slyrus: for real? 00:30:38 *jasom* will probably visit boston for a day this summer; I'm going to be on the East Coast for the first time in a long while and my uncle has season tickets at Fenway 00:30:41 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.151.195.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:30:41 *Xach* is not far from town 00:31:33 *drewc* lives just off the West Coast, yet travels to Boston a wee bit 00:31:42 BTW, I will probably be around Boston at the end of next week for work for a few days. Not sure what kind of free time I'll have, though. 00:32:10 lemonade` [~lemonade`@pool-71-178-51-174.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:52 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:33 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42:33 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 00:44:49 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.70.89] has joined #lisp 00:46:40 I summoned a boston lisp dinner tomorrow at Mary Chung's 00:47:00 sellout: if you want to have something next week, you get to decide 00:47:19 I kind of had to make a last minute executive decision about tomorrow's destination. 00:47:47 sellout-, so, if you want to go to CBC, or another place, that's fine 00:48:04 joins to eat, drink and/or dance are a'plenty 00:48:09 Fare: Ok, cool  I'll check back once I have plane tickets booked :) 00:48:09 joints 00:48:20 ok 00:48:38 go to GCM, people 00:48:45 what's GCM? 00:51:51 a joke 00:52:56 daniel [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 00:53:12 fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 00:53:19 -!- daniel is now known as Guest19038 00:53:33 -!- fasta_ [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:42 Fare: galois counter mode 00:54:16 RIGHT JOINs plenty ON a IN eat_drink_dance(place); 00:54:45 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.178.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:56:12 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 01:01:07 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:49 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:00 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:07:03 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl20-201-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:04 gst [~gst@97-123-217-225.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:20 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:08:38 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:01 ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.63] has joined #lisp 01:12:31 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.142.145] has joined #lisp 01:12:55 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:13:17 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14:03 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:14:36 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:16 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:17:46 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:22 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:47 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.142.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:29:32 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 01:34:49 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:10 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 01:36:24 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:29 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:41:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@177.224.215.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:44:24 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.99.61] has joined #lisp 01:45:45 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:03 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:54:20 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.81.201.136] has joined #lisp 01:54:34 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@116.12.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 01:54:50 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:55:29 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Client Quit] 01:55:50 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:56:35 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 02:00:47 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.99.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:01:00 breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-244.uwnet.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:02:07 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:53 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:56 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:20 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:18:01 Mmmm...Mary Chung's. 02:18:34 *esr* has had truly excellent dim sum there 02:19:08 -!- breakds [~breakds@dyn-72-33-177-244.uwnet.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:19:26 Fare: Is that a regular event? 02:21:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.250.32] has joined #lisp 02:21:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.250.32] has quit [Changing host] 02:21:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:21:40 -!- Guest19038 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:23:36 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:29:50 I'm out of state tomorrow :/ 02:30:21 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:37 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 02:31:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:49 esr: Are you in the Boston area now? 02:34:50 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:22 esr: (weve met ages ago in the Philly LUG  maybe '96? '97?) 02:37:49 sellout-: No, but I travel there occasionally. 02:38:20 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:39:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:47 rhinux [~rhinux@27.115.15.9] has joined #lisp 02:41:36 -!- rhinux is now known as rhinux_ 02:41:39 -!- rhinux_ is now known as rhinux 02:43:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.150.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:50:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:51:55 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:52:05 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.81.201.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:54:48 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:44 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:57:56 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:58:49 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:54 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 03:00:58 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has joined #lisp 03:01:13 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 03:01:15 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.150.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:33 ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 03:02:52 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:04:52 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:17 hey guys, is there an easy way to convert this string, "1 2 3 4" into a list (list 1 2 3 4)? 03:05:22 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:06:50 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:08:09 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:45 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:09:02 -!- justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:08 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:09:18 justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 03:09:33 (defun str2lst (str) (with-input-from-string (s str) (loop :for x = (read s nil :end) :until (eq x :end) :collect x))) 03:11:21 (defun lst2str (lst) (format nil "~{~S ~^~}" lst)) 03:12:20 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 03:13:41 thanks sw2wolf 03:14:07 momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.73] has joined #lisp 03:14:16 XexonixXexillion [~LudvikGal@130.56.95.67] has joined #lisp 03:14:55 -!- bananagram [~bot@pool-108-56-161-155.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Rated M for MANLY] 03:15:00 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:16:36 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 03:16:38 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 03:17:07 Are there any good OCR libraries in lisp? 03:18:30 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:20:39 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:45 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@87.115.125.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:40 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:23:05 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.81.201.136] has joined #lisp 03:23:56 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.67.111] has joined #lisp 03:26:50 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:27:08 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 03:27:16 dekuked [~dekuked@64-13-64-46.gsb.clearwire-dns.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:26 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:49 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:29:54 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:23 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:30 Xach: yes 03:31:39 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.81.201.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:32:32 Fare: the Area Four pizza joint also looks like a reasonable candidate eating spot 03:33:03 cucci cucci was ... not bad 03:33:23 antgreen [~green@64.56.247.247] has joined #lisp 03:33:46 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:41c0:a0d9:62ab:4d86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:36:00 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:36:06 cucci cucci is not for food 03:36:14 well, it is, but not as good as salts 03:36:36 area four is ok, I suppose 03:37:25 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 03:37:42 ok, I'm easy. mary chung's works too. 03:37:53 I guess I should have gone to salts :) 03:39:20 I'm french, you should listen to my food suggestions 03:39:26 area four is not bad, mind you 03:40:53 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-22-23.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 03:45:31 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:49:28 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:49 Ok, I will from now on :) I assumed cuchi cuchi was on the "acceptable" list. 03:51:47 -!- joshee is now known as joshe 03:54:18 -!- gst [~gst@97-123-217-225.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:56:48 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 03:58:43 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-22-23.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:58:43 -!- Bacteria_ is now known as Bacteria 04:02:08 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:04:54 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:31 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:12:44 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 04:15:42 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16:57 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 04:17:34 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:17:41 gst [~gst@71-213-135-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:28 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-78-123.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 04:18:38 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:23:52 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:24 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:29:18 -!- Forty-3 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[~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:18 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 04:42:06 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:48:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~protanopi@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: CrazyEddy] 04:49:01 CrazyEddy [~husbandle@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 04:49:30 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 04:52:42 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl20-201-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:06 eahydra [~xxeaglene@118.122.122.192] has joined #lisp 04:59:59 I've just switched how I return multiple-values to a system that is more like what ECL uses with a nice C++ twist (subclassing multiple_value from shared_ptr and using C++ slicing to translate values* --> values_0 automatically). 05:00:54 In the process I learned a lot about boost::shared_ptr and I came up with a scheme to implement pointer tagging in shared_ptr to store FIXNUM and DOUBLE-FLOAT and CHAR within the pointer. 05:01:35 The question is - should I do it? Does pointer tagging give enough of a performance enhancement that it makes it worth the headache of all the extra logic? 05:02:11 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-pqgidawxgdmucbfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:02:49 well, presumably right now if you have a C++ fixnum class, that means you have to do a pointer reference to get at the actual number? so every arithmetic operation will have a dereference for each operand, and then an allocation for the result? 05:03:16 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:03:24 Then there's the other question of whether I should switch from shared_ptr which stores the reference count in a separate memory location from the shared_ptr to an intrusive reference count. Intrusive reference counts use less memory but then I loose weak_ptr's. 05:04:10 Bike: Yup, pointer reference to get to the value and allocation for the result. It sounds horrible. 05:04:57 i would think that was pretty well destroy arithmetic performance. 05:06:16 If I do complex arithmetic in CL - I plan to do my heavy numerical lifting in C++. But when running other peoples code - like Maxima - I should implement tagged pointers? 05:07:38 Even with tagged pointers, every mathematical operation will be bracketed by testing the tag - correct? 05:07:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 05:07:58 doesn't have to be 05:08:07 How can I avoid it? 05:08:17 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 05:08:36 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:09:46 well, say you have I don't know, (defun foo (x) (declare (fixnum x)) (the fixnum (+ x (the fixnum (* x 9)))). then for a start you can not check the type of x because it's been declared (though you might anyway for safety), and since you've been told that the results are fixnums you can just use machine arithmetic with abandon. I think. 05:10:04 (+ a b c d e) - If a b c d are fixnums and e is a string I have to test every pointer for a tag. Hold on, I have to test for overflow as well or coerce each value to a BIGNUM. 05:10:34 You can do the checks at the beginning of a group of operations if you want. 05:10:50 overflow checking is a thing though, you can see a lot of checks for that in sbcl's disassemblies. 05:11:01 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:05 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 05:13:58 I haven't paid too much attention to DECLARE yet other than process them an extract SPECIAL declarations. Can you declare the return type of a function? 05:14:50 Or does that even mean anything since they can return multiple values? 05:15:33 you can declare the return type of a function, yes. 05:15:38 clhs function 05:15:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_fn.htm 05:15:45 the "type specifier" one. 05:15:48 errrr system class. 05:16:26 Basically, a declare like that means that within the lexical scope of the binding of x, x is promised to be a fixnum (the consequences are undefined if it's not), so the compiler can do more optimization with that information. 05:16:42 FTYPE - got it. 05:18:28 Here's an interesting page I found a while ago summarizing different CL implementations approaches to pointer tagging. 05:18:30 http://lars.nocrew.org/lisptags.html 05:19:16 It says GCL and Armed Bear Lisp don't use pointer tagging. 05:19:38 ABCL is JVM, that might not even be possible there? 05:20:07 Ah. 05:20:55 drmeister: it's also not updated. Current versions of SBCL has a single-bit type code for fixnums. 05:22:46 loke_erc: what does a "single-bit type code" mean? Only one tag bit is used total - or more than one is used and one of the tag bits is used to indicate FIXNUM - or am I not making sense? 05:22:57 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:20 probably a 0 in the lsb means fixnum, and a 1 means a few more bits are used for tag. 05:23:31 drmeister: In SBCL, if bit 0 is 0, then it's a fixnum 05:23:40 so it has 63 bits of value 05:24:36 Why if bit 0 is 0? Why wouldn't that mean its a regular pointer (since they must be aligned to 2 or 4 or 8 bytes)? 05:24:39 (log most-positive-fixnum 2)  62 05:25:17 drmeister: If the low bits are zero then you can use machine arithmetic (possibly with shifting) 05:25:28 I'm still a little fuzzy on on what systems, what pointer alignment is used. 05:25:55 drmeister: Intel doesn't require ponter alignment 05:26:07 Oh, and if its a pointer then you just AND it with 0xFFF..FFE to get the pointer? 05:26:17 drmeister: correct 05:27:21 loke_erc: So on intel derived machines SBCL enforces an alignment? 05:27:40 drmeister: Not sure. That question is better asked on #sbcl :-) 05:28:22 There's an #sbcl channel? 05:28:36 yep 05:28:45 Thanks, I just joined it. 05:30:21 also #ccl, etc. 05:30:59 I wonder if I can even hope to implement pointer tagging then if I want to interface to C++? I don't know if C++ enforces 2,4 or 8 byte alignment. 05:31:52 drmeister: On Intel, for poitners, you can tag using the high bits 05:32:13 -!- joe9_ [~joe9@c-24-98-97-215.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:32:31 You can even do some nifty memory mapping to get different exceptions depending on the high-level bits 05:32:31 On 64bit machines and 32bit machines? 05:32:41 Or 32bit linux? 05:32:49 64-bit. On 32-bit you'd limit your available memory a bit too mich 05:33:17 Well, with 2 bits you have 1 GB address space 05:33:32 Right. 05:34:52 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:36 Recently I read a paper on how to do hardware-assisted type-tagging on x86. The idea had to do with using the high bits as I mentioned and then some magic page tables to automatically detect type errors. 05:35:52 I can't remember the details but it was very clever. I can't seem to find the paper now though. 05:36:03 Is pointer tagging essential to good arithmetic performance in CL? I know that boxing FIXNUM's on the heap will mean terrible arithmetic performance but is there another way? 05:36:05 do tell if you find it again. 05:36:07 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.67.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:36:50 loke_erc: That sounds very machine specific. 05:37:45 drmeister: you could introduce unsafe arithmetic routines, and have CL functions compile into them either on low safety declarations or when it's known to be okay, maybe? 05:38:12 drmeister: It was specific to Intel, but if I remember correctly the tricks seems to be quite universal. 05:38:32 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:39:15 This idea of safe and unsafe code is really interesting. Does SBCL by default compile unsafe code? 05:39:28 drmeister: No. Only if you set SAFETY to 0 05:39:42 In SBCL, try the following: 05:39:58 clhs 1.2.4 05:39:58 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 1.2.4. 05:40:01 dammit. 05:40:14 that clhs page i linked earlier with error terminology, explains some of the unsafe code stuff too. 05:40:36 I ask because I did some small benchmarks a while ago and SBCL blew Allegro away until I turned safety off on Allegro and then they were comparable - I wasn't aware enough at the time to check SBCL's safety levels. 05:41:22 (disassemble #'(lambda (x) (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 1)) (type (integer 0 1000) x y)) (+ x y))) 05:41:28 then try the same with safety 0 05:41:50 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:27 you mean lambda (x y)? 05:43:10 Yes :-) 05:43:20 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 05:43:31 Hmm, oops. bad example by the way 05:43:41 I was trying to force a type check :-) 05:43:58 I forgot that SBCL uses a hardware trap on overflow 05:44:25 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 05:44:43 (sigh) - it makes my compiled code look like crap 05:46:07 (defun foo (x) (declare (type simple-string x) (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))) (aref x 0)) 05:46:15 Try that, and run: (foo 10) 05:46:21 (and watch the SBCL crash) 05:47:01 entertaining error. 05:47:07 :-) 05:47:21 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has joined #lisp 05:47:25 Well you're dereferencing 10 as a pointer. You deserve it :-) 05:47:50 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 05:48:56 -!- gst [~gst@71-213-135-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:51:23 cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:27 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.211.245] has joined #lisp 05:55:50 akovalen` [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 05:57:26 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:58:18 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:01:49 Finally - my new multiple-values return approach is working in the compiler. Multiple-values is like a contagen - like const correctness in C++ - it forced me to change functions to return multiple-values smart-pointers all the way back to the "C" primitive functions. 06:03:53 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.211.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:04:56 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:51 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.91.70] has joined #lisp 06:08:30 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:11:06 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 06:11:51 -!- Guest29914 [~lukas@194.228.13.231] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:17:49 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-123-55.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:22:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:25:33 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 06:25:54 -!- quazimodo 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error: Operation timed out] 08:04:31 davorb [davor@mer.df.lth.se] has joined #lisp 08:06:16 -!- angavrilov_ is now known as angavrilov 08:07:39 drmeister: how is hacking? 08:08:10 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:12:29 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:14:32 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:14:50 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has joined #lisp 08:15:54 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:04 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc02-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:17:56 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:18:23 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:48 loke_erc: fwiw, the trick is in using alignment check flag (AC) to get lowtag checking for free. IIRC, old CLs use that very trick on RISCy platforms (where unaligned loads unconditionally SIGBUS). That way you can untag, load a field, and check the lowtag in a single instruction: if the pointer's tag isn't what you subtracted in the effective address, the address won't be word aligned. 08:22:39 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 08:22:39 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 08:22:39 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 08:25:28 pkhuong: wasn't unaligned access trap pretty slow? 08:25:38 The problem is that the AC flag is only obeyed if it's enabled in ring 0, and not all OSes (earlier windows, notably) do it. 08:25:49 p_l: trapping or checking? 08:26:10 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 08:26:49 pkhuong: well, depends on architecture, I guess, but I remember some that would only let you differ in who gets the hw trap 08:27:08 p_l: I don't think we really care if type errors are slow. 08:27:24 ah 08:27:30 true. I missed bit of conversation 08:27:35 that is indeed an interesting use 08:28:45 though on, for example, NetBSD, there was only one system-wide setting for handling unaligned accesses, where the difference was getting SIGBUS or having OS "silently" do the unaligned load the slow way 08:28:47 loke_erc: http://weinholt.se/scheme/alignment-check.pdf is a recent paper that rediscovers the trick and explores it fairly nicely. 08:29:35 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:31:14 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:31:20 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 08:31:47 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:13 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-212-130-141.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:32:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:35:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 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joined #lisp 09:56:04 does anyone know anything about a libgcrypt CL interface? a quick search doesn't yield anything, but that feels fishy... 09:57:21 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 09:58:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:04:57 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:18 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:10:40 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:20:36 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:23:20 jarmond [~user@host-137-205-183-065.cov.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:24:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:26:26 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 10:27:35 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-147-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:52 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:37 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.91.70] has left #lisp 10:30:30 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.159.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31:13 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 10:31:18 CL + crypt -> ironclad maybe? 10:33:48 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:34:09 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:56 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:32 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:40:04 Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:02 I doubt ironclad has anything near the coverage that libgcrypt provides 10:41:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:45:40 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:47:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:49:12 hello. I've written a macro that compile 10:49:50 eichelbart [~eichelbar@91-66-228-168-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:05 that compile some code to a call to make-instance. But I want the user to be capable of specifying how my macro should write the call to an object builder. 10:52:12 for now, i do (mymacro  #'(lambda (args) `(make-instance ' ,@args)) ) and inside mymacro, I eval this argument to get a callable function. 10:53:02 But this is evil. How could I do something like that without a call to eval ? 10:53:18 what are you really trying to do? 10:53:26 i'm failing to understand that 10:53:50 hi #lisp! i ran into a little problem that i am sure won't be too hard to solve. i recently did a system upgrade, that included an update of sbcl from 1.1.3 to 1.1.4... so my question is: how do i recompile stumpwm, so it will load newly compiled fasl's? 10:54:05 Asgeir: &key (builder `(lambda (&rest initialisation) (apply 'make-instance ',foo initialisation))) ... `(,builder ,@args) is one way, if I understand you right. It's probably best to explain the goal rather than the path you've chosen. 10:54:14 eichelbart: remove them 10:54:26 stassats`: *them*? 10:54:33 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 10:54:37 stassats`: I think stump is used as a dumped image. 10:54:57 well, remove everything 10:55:23 and by everything you mean exactly? 10:55:35 Here comes the entire code http://paste.lisp.org/display/136020 10:56:16 -!- tinnery24 [~tinnery24@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:57:14 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:35 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:46 Asgeir: that seems awful complicated for what it does. Still, look in macrolet. 10:57:49 tinnery24 [~tinnery24@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:58 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:01 I wanted a macro that expands (obj (foo :to one) (bar :to two) (baz :to three)) to (make-instance ' :one (foo obj) :two (bar obj) :three (baz obj)) 10:58:45 Asgeir: also, is there any reason this isn't a very thin wrapper around a function? 10:59:00 that's a weird way to call make-instance 10:59:19 but I wanted to let the user replace the make-instance by another function. 10:59:38 pkhuong: I don't understand what you mean :o 11:00:34 Asgeir: can you maybe try to explain what you want to really do? 11:00:55 Asgeir: it seems that you're trying to discuss your solution, but you did not make the problem clear to us. 11:01:13 hum. 11:01:22 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:01:23 sorry about that, i'll try to explain better. 11:04:54 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:57 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-121-212-130-141.lns10.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:05:21 http://paste.lisp.org/+2WYC/1 11:05:38 that is what I'm trying to do 11:06:26 but in fact, it seems to be pretty useless, now. 11:07:18 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:07:35 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:07:37 if the form you're writing is harder to write then what it macroexpands to, then something is wrong 11:07:55 yes :D 11:08:19 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:49 but part of learning macros is writing some useless or broken ones and seeing why they are bad 11:09:38 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:10:44 brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:49 but the question still remains : how can you let the user to modify the behavior of a part of your macro ? can this be useful sometimes ? 11:11:07 anyway, thanks a lot for your help :D 11:14:11 Asgeir: depends. A lot of times, you can let them specify a lambda form that's spliced in. Otherwise, there's macrolet. 11:14:19 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:15:04 okay 11:15:16 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 11:16:18 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@li568-31.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:26 Asgeir: that rarely happens, but you yourself may be writing two macros which share a common structure 11:16:45 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:17:05 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:16 techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 11:18:19 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:22 -!- rhinux [~rhinux@27.115.15.9] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:19:07 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:19:30 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:37 brendyn [brendyn@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 11:19:42 for example, commonqt has the following: https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/blob/master/primitive-call.lisp#L132 11:20:48 deprecating trivial-gray-streams-mixin : http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/trivial-gray-streams-devel/2013-March/000022.html 11:20:48 oh, thanks :D 11:21:09 if you see any problems I missed let me know 11:21:35 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:15 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-84-69-68.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:25 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:42 ehu [~ehu@109.37.193.100] has joined #lisp 11:22:47 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:23:10 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:26 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:25:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: 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[~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:32 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:29:31 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 12:30:05 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:31:35 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:58 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:56 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:36:10 hi does anybody know how to define a custom reader and make it stick with a package so that slime does the right thing when C-c C-c? 12:36:20 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:26 minion: named-readtables? 12:36:27 named-readtables: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/named-readtables 12:36:48 stassats`: thanks i'll look into it 12:37:35 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:14 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:38:36 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:38:38 stassats`: " (E.g. think 12:38:43 of `C-c C-c' in Slime [yet to be done])" 12:38:55 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.166.137.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:38:59 looks like it doesnt do what i'm after 12:39:01 that's not true 12:39:05 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:39:07 ah, ok 12:39:26 it's in the manual http://common-lisp.net/project/named-readtables/ 12:40:47 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has joined #lisp 12:41:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:02 cl-syntax is a project that is maintained and does a similar thing. though I don't know if it does the slime bit. 12:42:29 Xach: ok thanks 12:45:16 stassats`: how slime recognises needed readtable? by (in-readtable ) form in the soruces? 12:48:43 Anything in CL that will let me authenticate with M$FT Active Directory? 12:51:50 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:30 easye: cl-ldap should do 12:52:37 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:40 oticat` [~oticat@36-224-96-93.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:32 -!- igorww is now known as igorw 12:53:55 cl-ldap uses UFFI t obind to Windows specific binaries 12:53:57 ? 12:54:27 about readtables 12:54:41 maybe I said it already somewhere, don't remember 12:54:58 easye: no, cl-ldap uses ldap to authenticate against ldap servers, and that should work with an ad server, too 12:55:32 Mebbe I'm looking at the wrong "cl-ldap". 12:55:40 IMHO the best way to name custom syntaxes is just to provide functions; the function accepts redatable as argument and modifies it 12:55:48 H4ns: I think there's the kerberos bit that needs to be taken care of, too. 12:55:52 easye: uh, it might be trivial-ldap 12:55:59 (my-library:set-reader-macros *readtable*) 12:56:02 H4ns: Not sure if ldaps:// will suffice with AD. 12:56:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:56:15 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.13.182] has joined #lisp 12:56:19 antoszka: i used it in the past, but the ad server may have had a special configuration. 12:56:35 I might be wrong, too. 12:56:41 it composes well: (other-library:enable-custom-syntax (my-library:set-reader-macros *readtable*)) 12:56:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:57:16 if you want to avoid destructive modifications, copy readtable before passing it to the functions 12:57:18 H4ns: Yeah, TRIVIAL-LDAP looks to be what you are talking about. Thanks. 12:57:19 -!- Asgeir [~asgeir@sal63-1-82-243-96-129.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: mi tawa!] 12:57:40 naming is handled - every functions has name 12:57:47 and no special constructs are necessary 12:58:12 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: end of paranormal activity] 13:01:02 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 13:01:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:02:47 -!- oticat` [~oticat@36-224-96-93.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:03:06 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:03:46 oticat` [~oticat@36-224-96-93.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:01 Did anyone port docopts to Common Lisp? 13:04:20 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:05:07 Thra11 [~thrall@24.170.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.131] has joined #lisp 13:07:10 antonv: but how does slime know which reader to set? 13:07:35 hmm could as well look in the sources :-) 13:07:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:10:16 hlavaty``: yes in the sources 13:10:27 :-D 13:10:33 angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:10:59 hlavaty``: or maybe this kind of information might be specified in .asdf system and slime invokes it 13:11:08 ASDF has :around-compile hook 13:11:23 thanks i'll look into it 13:11:25 it allows you to install your own readtable when your components are compiled 13:11:43 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.228] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:11:54 slime could look into .asd system and invoke :around-compile hook every time when slime request is executed by swank 13:12:22 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:01 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:19 antonv: no, named-readtables informs it about it 13:18:12 stassats`: how? I was *buffer-readtable* and call-with-syntax-hooks in swank.lisp, but haven't grasp yet how it works 13:18:30 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:32 M-. will be glad to tell you how 13:20:33 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:20:58 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.202.35] has joined #lisp 13:21:23 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:31 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 13:23:24 somtimes i wonder if nobody is crazy enough to fix VLM so it is totally usable, and then converting Genera to CL, flavours to clos, and dw to clim ... 13:26:25 zorkmoid: nobody is crazy enough to do that. 13:26:32 i know :( 13:26:33 good thing 13:26:55 not really, since genera is an awesome environment 13:27:10 _was_ 13:27:22 still is imho 13:27:44 aznyway, back to hacking. 13:27:46 ciao 13:28:13 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:28:19 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:26 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:41 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 13:31:48 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-vdepqaxzvnjvrngl] has joined #lisp 13:32:25 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:06 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 13:35:13 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.13.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:51 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:30 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 13:39:54 Avinash [~avi@101.220.102.114] has joined #lisp 13:41:03 woah, x86 can do alignment checking? 13:41:16 neat. :) 13:41:44 foom: recommended by intel to find performance bugs, iirc ;) 13:42:04 hah, not supported by qemu or valgrind 13:43:34 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 13:44:43 why is the last sentence: "It also appears to be impractical on 32-bit systems." 13:45:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:45:23 *Avinash* Altair 13:45:42 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.146] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 13:45:45 it doesn't look like it says anything else about that in the paper. 13:45:50 foom: Are you reading the weinholt paper? 13:46:02 yes 13:46:28 So am I. I glanced over at my irc client and it was like my thoughts were on the screen - weird. 13:47:05 zorkmoid: genera looks crappy to modern eyes, and its security is reputed to be a little porous. 13:47:18 genera has no security 13:47:26 drmeister: what paper ? 13:47:29 foom: only 2 bits of alignment check in ia32. Unless your system can get way with only 4 lowtags (including fixnums), that's probably not enough to be useful. 13:47:39 http://weinholt.se/scheme/alignment-check.pdf 13:47:43 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-224-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:47 H4ns: that's a more direct way of saying the same :-) 13:48:15 normanrichards [~normanric@63.98.50.138] has joined #lisp 13:48:18 foom: mentioned in the first paragraph of section 3. 13:48:37 I'm writing a CL implementation that interfaces with C++. I'm worried that I can't implement pointer tagging because I have to live with C++ pointers. 13:48:38 pkhuong: yea but most systems have only 2 tag bits anyways...? 13:48:39 dekuked [~dekuked@64.13.64.46] has joined #lisp 13:49:02 drmeister: so make pointers have a 0 tag. 13:49:14 Perhaps "worried" isn't the correct word. 13:49:20 What do you mean a 0 tag? 13:49:21 foom: uh? CMUCL and SBCL definitely assume objects are double-aligned in order to get more lowtags. 13:49:22 -!- Avinash [~avi@101.220.102.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:30 prxq: the lack of security is not so much of a problem. it is more the lack of modern features (ip, file services, media handling) as well as the massive amount of historical cruft that makes any modernization attempt to look like an enormous task to me. 13:49:47 Avinash [~avi@49.137.218.218] has joined #lisp 13:50:05 pkhuong: oh...duh. sorry, yes. :) 13:50:12 it steals 2 bits for fixnums, but 3 for tags. 13:50:12 -!- Avinash is now known as Altair 13:50:19 -!- tinnery24 [~tinnery24@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:50:20 prxq: i can't see how "someone" would just "do" that. it would be more like "create an organization that does it", and it does not seem to me that creating such an organization would be a sensible thing to do. 13:50:24 H4ns: people are still using things like X11 13:50:30 so, maybe there's a place for genera too 13:50:42 -!- Altair is now known as Guest46290 13:51:05 stassats`: there are a lot of people who use x11, but almost none who use genera. that kind of seems like making a difference. 13:51:07 stassats`: "still using X11" is a bit tendentious 13:51:27 -!- Guest46290 is now known as _Altair_ 13:51:38 H4ns: I see. And no way to finance such an enterprise. 13:51:40 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:51:49 foom: what does "so make pointers have a 0 tag" mean? 13:51:55 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 13:52:08 drmeister: presumably you don't need to interoperate with c++ on all types? 13:52:27 drmeister: you could make native pointers pointing to c++ objects use tag bits of 0, so that they pass directly over 13:52:42 foom: I do - because I implement the entire system in C++. 13:52:45 drmeister: how is the hackery going? 13:52:53 prxq: right. i'm not aware of a lot of investors who want to throw massive amounts of money at a project that basically just pleases the intellectual pet of some hackers who're firmly rooted in the past :D 13:52:59 -!- _Altair_ is now known as Avinash 13:53:03 But in the implementation, you can tag/untag when you need to access. 13:53:12 tinnery24 [~tinnery24@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:22 prxq: but if they exist, tell me. 13:53:25 Actually, everyone can do that, just make operator* on your object type do that. 13:53:27 H4ns: there is litte intellectual about it, genera is an amazing system, still in this day and age to work with. 13:53:51 zorkmoid: Well - I spent the last couple of days ripping out and replacing how I handled multiple value returns. My old way put multiple-values on the heap and required run-time checks all over the place to slice them down to single values. The new way is all handled at compile time. 13:54:09 zorkmoid: just because it amazes you does not actually mean a lot to the general public as a whole. 13:54:13 -!- luoboiqingcai [~chatzilla@2001:da8:c800:a108:21a:4bff:fe77:8c26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:16 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:54:19 H4ns: have you used genera on a daily basis? 13:54:37 i did, for over 10 years. 13:54:44 zorkmoid: and that means exactly what? 13:54:46 nothing comes close to i, slime is eons away from anything usable. 13:54:55 foom: But if I get an unaligned pointers from C++ then I have a problem. 13:55:26 drmeister: itneresting 13:55:58 hi 13:56:03 zorkmoid: while, say, 3 lisp hackers say GENERA IS AMAZING, 10000 IntelliJ users say the same thing about their ide 13:56:14 "slime is eons away from anything usable." are you just trying to prove your point by saying nonsense? 13:56:15 what is intellij 13:56:16 ? 13:56:16 drmeister: Yup. either don't do that, or, if you depend on x86-64, you can always steal the top bits instead, and hope nobody ever makes the hardware actually use all 64 bits. 13:56:17 zorkmoid: I just got it working with my compiler a few minutes ago - hazzah! 13:56:22 zorkmoid: you don't even know. 13:56:28 daniel` [~user@ulsecure-belknap-21080.wireless.louisville.edu] has joined #lisp 13:56:31 zorkmoid: nuff said. 13:56:32 sorry, i cannot know everything. 13:56:50 google knows 13:56:55 so therefore, you can know 13:57:02 minion: do you know google? 13:57:02 you'd have to tell me... my memory circuits are fried 13:57:04 that is very friendly. 13:57:06 zorkmoid: replace intellij by eclipse. same line of argument. 13:57:08 zorkmoid: "slime is eons away from anything usable" is pretty silly. 13:57:17 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:57:19 H4ns: what is eclipse? 13:57:25 minion: eclipse? 13:57:26 eclipse: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/eclipse 13:57:28 it's a window manager 13:57:35 prxq: i don't find it that way. 13:57:53 zorkmoid: genera is amazing. 13:58:06 seems i am talking to kindergarden kids. 13:58:08 back to hacking. 13:58:16 m| 13:58:23 m| indeed 13:58:31 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:02 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 13:59:11 "you didn't acknowledge genera's greatness, hence i'll pick on slime instead" 13:59:14 foom: but high-tagging is annoying, because you can't untag inside an EA. 13:59:37 pkhuong: you can lowtag and shift 13:59:49 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@88.100.82.98] has quit [Quit: ragequit] 14:00:03 tagging gets more expensive, but untagging may still be cheap. 14:00:35 or wait, no, there isn't one of those modes either, is there 14:00:36 pkhuong: What is an EA? 14:00:47 drmeister: effective address. 14:00:52 e.g. in an instruction LEA, "load-effective-address" 14:00:53 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:01:32 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01:36 foom: it would almost work on ARM, but I think the "free" roll is only on the operation's result, not the arguments ;) 14:03:02 Currently I'm using boost::shared_ptr to point to objects. That gives me one pointer to tag (reference count pointer) and another to stuff data into (data pointer). 14:03:27 So, no cycles, then? 14:04:05 Zhivago: I use weak_ptr to avoid cycles and plan to add GC later to clean up cycles that do creep in. 14:04:12 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:27 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:35 Sounds ... like cpython. 14:04:44 drmeister: cycles are not very exotic 14:04:49 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 The worst of both worlds, pretty much however you look at it. 14:06:05 I know - it's amazing I've gotten this far without proper GC. 14:06:34 That's particularly amazing. You can get quite far without collecting any garbage. 14:06:42 er, not, rather. 14:06:51 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:06:52 just restart on memory exhaustion 14:07:00 Lisp machine, hurrah! 14:07:22 Zhivago: I've seen fairly complex compilers bootstrap without any GC. 14:07:33 Sure. 14:07:43 That's why I am not particularly amazed. 14:08:03 My needs and motivations are also very different from most peoples. 14:08:27 You need unpredictable collection, and to waste additional memory and cycles? 14:08:41 I will be running this on 100,000 processor super-computers that communicate through MPI and only run for a few hours at a time. 14:08:55 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:09:00 why do you even need CL? 14:09:04 drmeister: it probably will be easy to fix 14:09:15 drmeister: the GC issue, I mean. 14:09:18 I don't need CL - I want CL. 14:09:50 is the time investment worth it? 14:10:11 stassats`: you are always so positive :-) 14:10:25 *stassats`* remembers somebody tried to port SBCL to blue gene 14:10:58 prxq: I think it will be. Case-in-point, I switched how I return multiple-values in about 3-days. 14:11:18 stassats`: What do you mean by "worth it"? 14:11:33 drmeister: do you pass it on the stack or in registers up to a point? 14:11:48 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:11:58 well, what if you wrote everything in C++ and be already done with it? 14:12:04 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:44 stassats`: multiple-values? The first return value is on the stack, the rest are in a global array. 14:13:34 stassats`: I have very complex ideas that I need to implement - and have implemented in an archaic lisp dialect that I developed two years ago. I decided I wanted a proper lisp implementation and chose CL. 14:13:54 drmeister: my suggestion is to ignore stassats` :-) 14:14:25 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:29 stassats`: the guy succeeded, not just tried 14:14:36 kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:52 fe[nl]ix: it's not in the mainline, is it? 14:15:03 -!- kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:15:14 that's not relevant 14:15:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:28 and does it just run or is it used to do complex tasks? 14:15:36 kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:36 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:15:54 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Client Quit] 14:15:55 It doesn't run yet - I'm working on dispatching generic functions. 14:15:59 it's hard to coordinate such a project, though 14:16:14 drmeister: we're talking aboutt sbcl on blue gene 14:16:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.79.54] has joined #lisp 14:16:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.79.54] has quit [Changing host] 14:16:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:17:05 fe[nl]ix: since sbcl runs on ppc, i assume it's easy, but all the parallel communication things are more interesting 14:17:23 Ah. 14:17:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:17:50 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:18:47 http://blog.iron.io/2013/03/how-we-went-from-30-servers-to-2-go.html I wonder if SBCL's heavy initial RAM use would have been an actual barrier to using it in their solution. I also wonder how much RAM their Go app uses when it's warmed up :) 14:19:54 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:04 symbole [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has joined #lisp 14:21:53 -!- qptain_Nemo is now known as LeadHyperion 14:22:03 -!- LeadHyperion is now known as qptain_Nemo 14:22:37 drmeister: how do you pass function arguments? 14:23:24 stassats`: Currently I use activation-frames (arrays of shared_ptr) on the heap. I plan to switch to var_args. 14:23:48 hey do any of you guys do work in jobs that need lisp/ 14:23:50 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 14:23:56 stassats`: Oh, C++ functions and methods arguments are passed on the stack the normal C++ way. 14:24:01 ill rephraso for the english speakers 14:24:02 drmeister: so you're not going for a custom calling convention? 14:24:09 who here works as a lisp programmer? 14:24:13 quazimodo: i do 14:24:21 zorkmoid: what company? 14:24:33 quazimodo: my own 14:24:34 currently, i'm writing lisp code for payz 14:24:35 s 14:24:40 zorkmoid: oh thats cool 14:24:50 need a sexy intern in australia? 14:24:52 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:24:57 stassats`: I haven't worried about optimization yet. 14:25:07 quazimodo: alas, not at this time. 14:25:16 you're better off 14:25:17 :P 14:25:29 madnificent: what kind of work? 14:25:31 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:33 quazimodo: if not only common lisp, we use racket 14:25:42 I coded CL for a living once. No longer. 14:26:00 stassats`: Why do you ask? What do you think about var_args vs activation-frames on the heap vs custom calling convention? 14:26:06 sykopomp: Erlang is boo! ;P 14:26:42 madnificent: I've been larval on javascript recently. Most of the code I've written in the past few weeks (months?) has been JS. :D 14:26:42 asvil: how come racket? 14:26:47 quazimodo: web as a deployment platform. and from there on, whatever we could build quickly. right now a data entry app. 14:26:48 *sykopomp* is an Erlang Frontend Developer 14:27:31 sykopomp: erlang is used for its multi threaded stuff right? 14:27:33 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 14:27:36 sorry, what do you mean? 14:27:54 asvil: why did your company choose to use racket 14:27:58 sykopomp: you starred some interesting things on github, keep doing that please :) 14:28:03 quazimodo: I write small tools in Clojure once in a while. There's plenty of lisp developlment going on, if that's what you're asking. Check out http://cufp.org or http://www.icfpconference.org/ to see which in FP, and lisp in particular. 14:28:19 -!- kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kmb] 14:28:21 which companies do FP* 14:28:29 quazimodo: that seems to be what people think. I'd argue that the people who actually know and love erlang use it for its robustness and distribution, not its SMP. 14:28:51 drmeister: just to get a sense of what you're doing, and i'm not familiar with C++ methods to comment on them 14:28:53 kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:54 quazimodo: They wanted to rewrite DSL from Delphi to anything else more comfortable 14:28:57 didn't erlang only recently (in its history) get smp support? 14:29:02 *quazimodo* wonders if CL can do nice multithreading 14:29:27 asvil: i see 14:29:30 *quazimodo* likes ruby 14:29:34 i don't get it though 14:29:36 quazimodo: it can 14:29:46 all the ruby guys have freaking macs and all the python guys have linux's 14:30:00 its bizarre to see it happen infront of you 14:30:48 asvil: a reason to get away from delphi doesn't equate to a reason to use racket? 14:31:00 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 14:32:00 quazimodo: the reason to get away from Delphi is too buggy DSL implementation. Usually it is easy to rewrite all code instead of patching 14:32:17 *quazimodo* never wrote delphi 14:32:21 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 14:32:30 -!- daniel` [~user@ulsecure-belknap-21080.wireless.louisville.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:32:55 Unfortunately there is much numerical work, so racket is not good enough on my sight 14:33:59 *nicdev* still writes Delphi :( 14:34:14 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:34:14 asvil: so you don't think that racket is good enough huh 14:34:43 write some C tools and pass data off to them? 14:34:52 *quazimodo* doesn't know if that's right or wrong 14:35:03 Delphi is good for some tasks, probably like erlang is good for multiprocessing and fp related tasks 14:35:11 -!- Avinash [~avi@49.137.218.218] has left #lisp 14:35:47 quazimodo: yes, there are C parts, which communicates with racket by ffi 14:36:01 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] 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masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:59:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-91-193-41-BusName-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:12 -!- cic [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:03 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:05:19 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:06:19 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:10 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:12 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:46 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qazoryrhvwybizjg] has joined #lisp 15:16:04 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 15:17:06 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:21 -!- pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:49 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:08 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:18 teggi [~teggi@113.173.31.207] has joined #lisp 15:25:43 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:25:59 drmeister: looks like SBCL reuses argument registers for returning the first few multiple values 15:26:11 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:26:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 15:26:43 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:05 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:29:03 the first 3 15:29:47 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:30:44 stassats`: Thanks. 15:30:54 and the rest on the stack 15:32:06 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 15:33:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:33:28 and in turn it uses registers for the first three arguments, the rest is on the stack as well 15:34:36 frn [~ase@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 15:35:14 -!- frn [~ase@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has left #lisp 15:37:01 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients] 15:39:06 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:17 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:39:30 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:32 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:39:59 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:40:04 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 15:40:18 -!- balle [~basti@espera.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: Gone with the wind] 15:47:38 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:54 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:50:35 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:05 ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has joined #lisp 15:51:18 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:51:40 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:12 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:41 drmeister: Also IIRC you are using LLVM, which does have the ability to do multiple-return values, but it might hurt C++ interop 15:56:57 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@64.13.64.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:57:23 fightback [~david@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 15:57:24 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-zsowwaklwviexpyx] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 15:57:25 llvm doesn't do cl-style multiple values. 15:57:40 it does C-style multiple values (aka returning a struct) 16:00:08 jasom: It's not clear to me exactly what LLVM IRBuilder::CreateAggregateRet does. 16:01:01 -!- iLogical is now known as ChickFilA 16:01:10 foom: make it a union, and you'll see why you can still use it 16:02:13 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.202.35] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:02:19 I'm pretty sure it doesn't do what I need though. Because I implemented something that seems to be working and it was a lot more complicated than what CreateAggregateRet seems to do. 16:02:35 foom: or rather make it a struct of "how ever many machine words can be efficiently returned through registers" and use that to pass MRV information 16:02:57 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:03 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:49 jasom: That's an interesting thought - so CreateAggregateRet might load return the first N (some number) of return value pointers into registers? 16:03:54 drmeister: aggregate returns in LLVM is kind of complicated because you have to know the C ABI to tell if the function gets an extra implicit argument or not. 16:05:41 -!- symbole [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:06:21 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:19 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07:53 drmeister: It depends on the system ABI (absent link time optimizations). Usually what will happen is either a) the whole agregate will fit in registers and be returned that way or b) it won't and will be returned via pointer 16:08:03 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:04 pkhuong: Are you referring to returning structures from C++ functions by passing them as the first argument by reference? 16:09:05 what you can do is figure out what the restrictions are in the ABI for (a) to happen, and use always the largest agregate that satisfies (a), and then figure out how to communicate the information you need for the two cases of 1) You can fit all values in the aggregate and 2) you can't so need to fall back on using heap 16:10:01 drmeister: if you can make even the cases of 0,1, and 2 return values fast, at the expense of making 3+ slower, it's a huge win. 16:10:49 And that's trivial to do with 3 words, and possible to do with 2 words if you get fancy with your tag bits 16:11:25 jasom: given that drmeister is currently using an auxiliary array for additional return values, it easily only ever needs 2 words. 16:12:04 I just finished (almost) implementing a scheme where I return multiple values in a shared_ptr subclass. I have a "smart_ptr" that stores one pointer and I can return them from functions. 16:12:09 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:14 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-qolieqmszukxlsve] has joined #lisp 16:12:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:12:36 Sorry, that's smart_ptr template class. Then I have a multiple_values template class that inherits from smart_ptr. 16:12:52 multiple_values stores an integer that keeps track of how many multiple values are being returned. 16:13:02 Multiple-values 2-N are stored in a global array. 16:13:58 -!- ChickFilA is now known as iLogical 16:14:19 It would be relatively easy to enhance multiple_value to store additional pointers so that multiple-values 1-3 say are returned in the multiple-values pointer and 4-N are in the global array. 16:17:15 (sigh) currently (macroexpand '(rotatef (elt seq i) (elt seq j))) --> ( LET* ((nil nil ) (nil nil ) ) nil nil nil ). Houston we have a problem. 16:17:55 But: (macroexpand '(rotatef a b)) --> ( LET* ((#:store-get-setf-expansion2813 B ) (#:store-get-setf-expansion2814 A ) ) ( SETQ A #:store-get-setf-expansion2813 ) ( SETQ B #:store-get-setf-expansion2814 ) nil ) 16:18:50 drmeister: what's (get-setf-expansion '(elt seq i)) ? 16:18:54 This is my life right now. 16:19:18 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:24 (#:do-setf-method-expansion2815 #:do-setf-method-expansion2816 ) 16:19:37 and that's it? 16:19:47 it has to be 5 values 16:20:51 ECL gives --> (#:G108 #:G109) (SEQ I) (#:G110) (SI:ELT-SET #:G108 #:G109 #:G110) (ELT #:G108 #:G109) 16:21:09 did you bork your multiple-value returning? 16:22:21 It's probably a small bug somewhere. I'll hunt it down after my swim. 16:22:25 but (get-setf-expansion 'a) apparently works 16:23:23 The compiler is compiling itself again. This came up when compiling seqlib.lsp - in QUICK-SORT it's not relevant. 16:24:29 (get-setf-expansion 'a) --> nil nil (#store-get-setf-expansion2818) (setq a #:store-get-setf-expansion2818) A 16:25:15 that sounds sound 16:25:36 I've got to run - ttyl 16:25:45 ok, it's implemented as direct multiple-values 16:25:58 the elt one is multiple-values from other routine 16:26:05 in a tail call, that is 16:26:09 check that this is not broken 16:27:26 you probably clear your return vector 16:29:53 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@187.64.222.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:30:52 -!- ttm is now known as The_third_man 16:34:32 huh, found a bug in slime's output redirection (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (print t) (finish-output))), prints T twice 16:35:02 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.186.251] has joined #lisp 16:35:09 caused a good deal of "why the hell is my code executing twice?" 16:35:30 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-91-193-41-BusName-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:35:55 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 i guess the problem is that since it is a separate thread, it calls finish-output before it gets a chance to get flushed 16:36:58 and indeed, putting (sleep 0.00001) between eliminates the problem 16:37:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 16:37:22 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:02 i would guess that finish-output is what causes it to print, and the slime auto-flusher then comes later 16:41:35 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:42:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:01 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:39 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qazoryrhvwybizjg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:48:22 now, in which thread would I find a bound swank::*istate*? REPL? 16:48:50 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:49:54 thomas_yzj [~user@175.8.20.217] has joined #lisp 16:50:29 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:32 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.8.20.217] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:48 stassats`: you're one of the slime developers, right? _please_ add this: 16:50:52 (defimplementation sldb-break-at-start (fname) 16:50:53 (trace :break T :function fname)) 16:50:58 thanks a lot. 16:51:42 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 16:52:03 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:52:39 no! 16:52:51 that would make slime better, that's not in my interests 16:54:05 stassats`: "thanks a lot" 16:54:11 what's your slime replacement? 16:54:15 stassats`: are you going to use swank for your "slime killer" or do you want that to die too? 16:54:18 do you have an URL to look at? 16:54:24 flip214: "you are welcome" 16:54:40 flip214: nope, nothing, it's not ready! 16:54:59 it's motto is "in the year 2525, if man is still alive" 16:56:01 jasom: nope, no swank, just some parts 16:56:21 swank reimplements many things needlesly, like threads, sockets, mop 16:58:04 *stassats`* is in the process of building the hype 16:58:21 Now I have that song stuck in my head 16:58:35 good song, at least 16:58:35 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 16:58:41 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:58:51 i want an audio visual interface for a slime replacement 16:59:07 so that it sings return values? 16:59:17 mebbe a Selena Gomez personality 17:00:19 _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 17:04:02 stassats`: I think I found it, looking at that now. 17:04:11 found what? 17:04:56 -!- daniel` [~user@ulsecure-belknap-21080.wireless.louisville.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:08 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:05:16 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:05:31 your slime killer 17:05:44 The_third_man [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:44 at least I guess that's what I got 17:05:56 well, i just deleted the repo from github 17:06:03 people are too curious for their own bad 17:06:58 The function QT-IDE::ENUM-ANDC is undefined. 17:07:17 oh, please don't! 17:07:21 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:26 just accept a few spectators. 17:07:53 even i myself don't use it 17:08:46 didn't you watch that video? i'm tired of pasting it 17:09:16 flip214: you can spectate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zyRQlLLSU 17:09:24 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:56 thanks. I didn't get that far. 17:11:12 clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:04 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 17:13:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 -!- fightback [~david@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 17:14:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:15 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.186.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:14:49 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:16:24 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.31.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:05 -!- jarmond [~user@host-137-205-183-065.cov.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:19:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:20:55 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.243.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:21:53 stassats`: take a look at conium 17:23:13 isn't that just a copy-paste of swank? 17:23:51 which is outdated by now 17:25:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:16 a bit outdated, but without all NIH stuff removed 17:27:01 making reusable independent libraries is one of the goals too 17:29:52 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.208.231] has joined #lisp 17:30:01 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:44 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-094-219-152-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:30:46 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:31:36 <_d3f> anyone knows how to fix the error when loading cl+ssl "..Unable to load any of the alternatives: ("libssl.so.1.0.0" "libssl.so.0.9.8" "libssl.so")"? 17:31:50 do you have openssl installed? 17:31:56 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.246] has joined #lisp 17:32:02 no 17:32:03 lol 17:32:11 wbooze: are you _d3f? 17:32:22 <_d3f> openssl is already the newest version. 17:32:33 no 17:32:44 _d3f: where do you get cl+ssl from? 17:32:48 oO 17:33:22 do you have /usr/lib/libssl.so ? 17:33:37 _d3f: because in the latest cl+ssl it lists (:or "libssl.so.1.0.0" "libssl.so.0.9.8" "libssl.so" "libssl.so.4") 17:33:39 <_d3f> from quicklisp stassats` (ql:quickload :drakma) this loads cl+ssl 17:33:41 _d3f: you may be missing symlinks 17:33:51 <_d3f> stassats`: yeah so.4 is there 17:33:59 <_d3f> i just cutted it short, sry 17:34:30 ok, so, which kind of libssl.so do you have? 17:34:34 and the library is useable? try "ldd /usr/lib..../" on the path 17:35:01 and of which architecture? does it match the architecture of your implementation? 17:35:02 <_d3f> libssl1.0.0 17:35:29 <_d3f> amd64 debian 17:36:39 do you have /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl.so.1.0.0 file? 17:37:02 and do the architectures match? 17:37:22 -!- cades [~mac@114-32-245-7.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:37:28 <_d3f> this folder does not exist stassats`. 17:38:03 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:38:33 <_d3f> and there's no libssl* in my /usr/lib/ or /usr/lib32 17:38:43 stassats`: Just after I left for a bit you posted some ideas as to what might be going wrong in my code - something about tail call multiple-values return. 17:39:04 hmmm, I'm running debian testing/unstable too, but all I have is a 0.9.8 and a libssl3. 17:39:12 where is the 4 from? 17:39:25 which four? 17:39:36 <_d3f> oh sry 17:40:01 What multiple-return were you referring to? 17:40:04 <_d3f> /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/ includes libssl.so.1.0.0 17:40:16 drmeister: get-setf-expansion 17:41:18 drmeister: does (defun x () (values 1 2 3 4 5)) (defun y () (x)) work? 17:41:40 Let me check 17:41:56 _d3f: and which architecture is your implementation for? 17:42:14 Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-36.isr.uc.pt] has joined #lisp 17:42:14 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:42:15 Yes - (y) --> 1 2 3 4 5 17:42:37 But hold on, that is interpreted. 17:42:50 <_d3f> stassats`: my implementation of what? - sry I don't get it :/ 17:45:06 stassats`: Yes - it works when I compile it as well. 17:45:46 So that's probably not the problem - correct? 17:46:54 yati [~yati@122.170.32.11] has joined #lisp 17:47:01 _d3f: lisp implementation 17:47:05 drmeister: now try (defvar *y* (compile nil '(lambda (x) (values 1 2 3 4 5)))) (defun foo (list) (apply *y* list)) (foo '(1)) 17:47:16 _d3f: are you using an x86_64 lisp, or a 32-bit x86 lisp? 17:47:17 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:47:24 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:47:51 _d3f: if you don't know, there is probably something in *features* that will tell you 17:49:22 Hold on, I'm gathering data. Here's what I get when I remove all the fasl files and boot my CL in complete interpreted mode - no compiled code is being invoked. http://pastebin.com/qNDPWQm2 17:49:53 <_d3f> jasom: it just says :X86 at the end & CFFI-FEATURES:X86 17:50:12 (get-setf-expansion '(rotatef (elt seq i))) is useless, you should be checking (get-setf-expansion '(elt seq i)) 17:50:23 and your printer is really weird 17:50:25 The second return value is messed up. 17:50:31 Yes it is. 17:50:34 Hi. When I do this: (funcall + (1 2 3)), it fails, but quoting with (funcall '+ (1 2 3)) or (funcall #'+ (1 2 3)) works. Can someone please describe what's happening? I mean I(kind of) know it works in the last two cases because I quoted the + name, but what exactly prevented case 1 from being correctly executed? 17:50:48 _d3f: that's your problem. You have 32-bit lisp and 64-bit libssl 17:50:52 yati: (funcall #'+ (1 2 3)) does not work 17:51:01 _d3f: try using a 64-bit lisp 17:51:02 yati: + isn't bound to the + function as a vaiable 17:51:20 <_d3f> kk jasom, thx. i will try to get a 64bit SBCL version. 17:51:33 stassats`, oh indeed. Please explain. 17:52:01 yati: (1 2 3) tries to call the 1 function, which doesn't make any sense. 17:52:15 Bike, So in case 1, it looks for a variable named +? 17:52:15 function is a function, you need to quote everything what you don't want to evaluate, and even if you quote '(1 2 3), + does not work on lists 17:52:26 funcall is a function 17:52:54 And it expects the function name as a symbol, right? 17:52:55 so, (funcall '+ 1 2 3) == (funcall #'+ 1 2 3) == (apply #'+ '(1 2 3)) 17:53:19 == (+ 1 2 3) 17:53:33 == (reduce #'+ '(1 2 3)) 17:54:34 drmeister: so, does the (defvar ...) thing work? 17:54:59 stassats`: COMPILE is broken at the moment as well (sigh) 17:55:45 well, try using (defun y (x) (values 1 2 3 4 5)) and (defvar *y* #'y) 17:55:50 everything compiled, of course 17:56:17 COMPILE-FILE is working 17:56:56 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:57 compile-file itself or this test-case compiled with compile-file works as expected? 17:57:13 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:56 I can COMPILE-FILE code, I can't COMPILE functions or lambdas at the moment - one problem at a time - they may be related. 17:58:17 no, i don't really need COMPILE 17:58:27 (defun y (x) (values 1 2 3 4 5)) (defvar *y* #'y) --> done 17:58:36 What should I do with *y* or y? 17:58:38 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:58:45 the FOO bit 17:59:06 (defun foo (list) (apply *y* list)) (foo '(1)) 17:59:09 ? 17:59:12 yes 17:59:22 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 17:59:25 what are quicklisp's preferred norms for my a defsystem i'm considering submitting, i couldn't find them 17:59:26 (foo '(1)) --> 1 17:59:32 there you go 18:00:02 *stassats`* takes off his telepathic debugging hat, it's heavy 18:00:20 Ok, I see what ECL does (foo '(1)) -> 1 2 3 4 5 18:00:31 bhyde: it isn't written down, but if you look at past issues you can see what makes me complain 18:00:32 Let me read the code for a bit. 18:00:39 bhyde: i like to see :author, :license, and :description at least. 18:00:53 drmeister: what about just (apply *y* '(1)) ? 18:00:54 bhyde: a README in some form is good too 18:01:18 that's not what ECL does, that's what CL should do 18:01:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:02:01 --> 1 18:02:10 (apply *y* '(1)) --> 1 18:02:33 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:02:38 So what am I doing here, applying a function that returns multiple values is slicing down to a single value. 18:03:05 what about (funcall #'y 1)? 18:03:21 (apply #'(lambda () (values 1 2 3)) ) 18:03:26 (apply #'(lambda () (values 1 2 3)) ) --> 1 18:03:30 Xach: tx 18:03:38 in the interpreter? 18:03:42 Yep. 18:03:47 and ((lambda () (values 1 2 3))) is more cool 18:04:27 double parens means double cool 18:05:06 CRUISE CONTROL? 18:08:50 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 18:10:10 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:50 I found the little bugger. I was slicing it down in my APPLY wrapper function. 18:13:41 Slicing multiple-values --> value_0 18:14:11 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:14:28 (apply #'(lambda () (values 1 2 3)) ) --> 1 2 3 18:14:28 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:37 Now (apply #'(lambda () (values 1 2 3)) ) --> 1 2 3 18:14:57 and (macroexpand '(rotatef (elt seq i) (elt seq j)))? 18:15:23 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 18:15:48 clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:54 <_d3f> it's harden than I thought to get SBCL x86_64 as SBCL standard on Debian 18:16:09 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:20 taraz [~user@p578E657A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:52 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:52 ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has joined #lisp 18:17:27 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 18:17:36 bhyde: that is a particularly fine request. thanks. 18:17:40 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.29.83] has joined #lisp 18:18:46 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ihjnczxtcfbtdjyk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:19:04 stassats`: Hold on I'm making the gensym labels look normal again. 18:20:05 xach - glad you like it (https://github.com/bhyde/cl-otp)  nothing like unemployment to shake loose contributions :) 18:20:39 and here i thought it was for erlang 18:21:08 ikki [~ikki@187.208.186.251] has joined #lisp 18:21:31 Looks like it's working in the interpreter: http://pastebin.com/7pC2H7kH - I'll fire up the ol' compiler now. 18:22:02 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:12 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:24 It will take about 15 min for the compiler to compile itself because it's running in my very slow code-walking interpreter. 18:23:19 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:24:23 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105.228.29.83] has quit [Quit: Harag] 18:25:09 I should post all my bugs to #lisp. It's like the old days where printers would post broad-sheets on the street to dry and get some free editing :-) 18:25:09 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:39 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:25:40 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:26:21 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-powncmwxfntnqzcb] has joined #lisp 18:26:26 How to cancel input in SLIME? I'm getting [input not complete] in the status bar 18:26:59 stassats`: Did I see that you work on slime or something to replace it? 18:27:17 both 18:27:18 yati: C-c C-u will clear whatever you're typing 18:27:58 Bike, thanks :) 18:28:23 I'd love to get this CL implementation talking to slime - how would you recommend doing it if I don't have multi-threading? select? 18:29:15 slime can do a full blocking mode 18:29:24 What does that mean? 18:29:36 read-byte/write-byte 18:29:47 but you also need working gray streams to get anything sensible 18:29:56 Ok, but what is the best way without multi-threading? 18:30:00 or at least some sort of a gray streams hack 18:30:06 What are gray streams? 18:30:21 streams which have seen too much in their life 18:30:28 *esr* was about to ask the same thing. 18:30:30 it's an extension, look it up 18:31:22 drmeister: i think 6.2.1 in the slime manual is what you want 18:31:25 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:04 drmeister: basically a clos object for making streams that are compaitible with the standard library streams 18:32:50 Ah, yes, now I remember looking that up. I put it on the shelf until I have CLOS running. 18:33:25 abcl doesn't use the, it has (defimplementation make-input-stream (read-string) (ext:make-slime-input-stream read-string (make-synonym-stream '*standard-output*))) 18:33:33 bhyde: i thought cl-otp was something to do with erlang 18:33:35 So slime requires gray streams which requires clos which requires me to get multiple dispatch working. 18:33:46 slime doesn't require them 18:34:08 (see above) 18:34:33 anyone know why emacs and sbcl might disagree about how many close parenthesis I have? 18:34:48 jasom: in the repl? 18:34:55 stassats`: compiling a file 18:35:10 ; unmatched close parenthesis 18:35:35 the one it is complaining about has a matched one just 10 lines up, with no comments and only a single string 18:35:42 What is defimplementation? 18:36:08 drmeister: an internal thing, it's not relevant to the question 18:36:20 think of it as a defun 18:36:27 jasom: and M-x check-parens doesn't help? 18:37:09 jasom: can you paste the code? i'm not in the mood for guessing anymore 18:37:38 -!- yati [~yati@122.170.32.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:32 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:38:36 http://paste.lisp.org/display/136025 18:38:50 It's complaining at the last paren of that defun 18:39:19 slime integration requires a lot more than that doesn't it? I need to format backtraces properly and set up my interactive debugger properly so that it can work with the slime debugger. 18:39:39 drmeister: well, there's many levels of slime support 18:40:03 the basic one just needs sockets and a way to capture stream output 18:40:05 The main one I want is interactive debugging. 18:40:37 that would need a good API into the debugger 18:40:39 bah, nevermind, for some reason emacs decided to edit a similar file in a different directory. Probably a typo 18:40:48 I'd also like results to be pasted into the input buffer within #| ... |# comments and automatically removed every time I eval. That will make slime behave like a Mathematica notebook. Is that possible? 18:41:20 not automatic removing, and not wrapping inside #||# 18:41:33 Why not? Can't that be done on the swank side? 18:41:42 everything can be done 18:41:51 Or should I not want that for some reason? 18:42:20 are you asking me whether it's theoretically possible or whether you can go and do it right now? 18:43:03 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-mefmxdxkeenquqsl] has joined #lisp 18:43:20 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@isr-dhcp-36.isr.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:18 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 18:44:46 stassats`: these are turing complete languages - everything computable is possible. 18:44:47 sdemarre [~serge@144.90-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:45:08 you'll be surprised how lame emacs is 18:45:20 but, it's possible to implement this, and it's not implemented yet 18:45:21 How easy would it be to insert results right after the evaluated form in #| ... |# and automatically vacuum it out again every time the form is evaluated. 18:46:07 I think it would be very nice. It would work like a Mathematica notebook but in text-mode. 18:46:12 depends on how good you know emacs liosp and slime internals 18:46:37 It would allow a very organic programming experience. That's why I want it. 18:47:00 the REPL does a good job of having an "organic" programming "experience" 18:47:17 The compiler finished: (get-setf-expansion '(rotatef (elt seq i) (elt seq j))) now gives the correct result. 18:47:36 get-setf-expansion is a bit silly here, should have been macroexpand-1 18:47:39 Compiling :stage2 of the compiler. 18:47:54 elisp can do the pasting with C-u C-x e, so that's at least possible 18:47:55 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for can do the pasting with C-u C-x e, so that's at least possible. 18:48:31 specbot has a hairball 18:48:32 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:42 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:51 elsip defun 18:48:56 elisp defun 18:48:56 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for defun. 18:49:04 specbot: bad bot, no cookies 18:49:09 elisp eval-last-sexp 18:49:10 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for eval-last-sexp. 18:49:14 dumb. 18:49:28 i think the definitions of elisp it had god 404ed anyhow 18:49:50 would need a new set to work 18:50:09 man exit 18:50:09 http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/exit.1.html 18:50:11 Why didn't Stallman incorporate lexical environments into elisp? 18:51:27 drmeister: I don't know, but historically, they were not considered possible to implement efficiently and the semantics were very different from expectaitons. 18:51:46 When did he write emacs? 18:51:46 drmeister: It's funny to read the net.lang.lisp flames about how lexical scope is a crock 18:51:50 back in the day, they were not as well understood as they are today 18:51:53 1980 18:51:55 ish 18:51:57 elisp has lexical scope now 18:51:57 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for has lexical scope now. 18:52:02 without stallman 18:52:05 (or I should say "which version of emacs") 18:52:21 He's written emacs, like, 3 times... 18:52:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:52:37 it took only 30 years to get to lexical scoping 18:52:54 obviously it was a crucial feature that's been holding emacs back! :) 18:53:40 I love emacs. 18:53:43 To use lexical binding, an Emacs-lisp source file must set a file-variable `lexical-binding to t in the file header, e.g., by using a first line like: 18:53:43 ;;; -*- lexical-binding: t -*- 18:53:55 in another 10 years it'll gain threads 18:54:06 skies the limit then... 18:54:08 Magic comments that change your programming language are so awesome. 18:54:13 yea, lol 18:54:24 foom: tell that to racket 18:54:30 and postscript 18:54:31 do they do that too? 18:54:43 and zetalisp 18:55:43 so when you eval a form in the buffer, it must use a buffer global to "know" that it's been done. I wonder what happens if you change the comment and eval again, whether it catches it or not. 18:55:48 comments don't affect postscript.... 18:56:16 yea, I had never heard or seen that before 18:56:21 they just make it easier for non-printers to incorrectly run the program, in a way that supposedly doesn't affect the output 18:58:22 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-209-205.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:58:30 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58:35 Well, my compiler is now compiling more of the CL source code - maybe I'll get back to where I was a week ago and be able to get back to implementing multiple dispatch today. 18:58:52 -!- taraz [~user@p578E657A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:59:12 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-209-205.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:36 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-209-205.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:59:50 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-209-205.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:21 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 19:00:23 RiskyBlit [~riskyblit@91-64-79-59-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:42 does it have arrays of type nil? 19:00:55 stassats`: Thanks for your help with that bug. 19:01:06 arrays of type nil? What do you mean? 19:01:18 (make-array 10 :element-type nil) 19:01:33 ecl doesn't either 19:01:50 nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 19:02:02 It doesn't pay attention to :element-type yet. Arrays are all of type T - they can contain anything. 19:02:20 I mean it stores the :element-type but it doesn't use it yet. 19:02:25 but NIL arrays can't contain anything! 19:02:32 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:45 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-209-205.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 19:03:06 -!- n0oy [~user@h-19-188.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:14 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-209-205.w92-140.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:03:30 stassats`: isn't it legal for upgraded-array-element-type of nil to be T? 19:03:40 What is the point of :element-type? It's optimization isn't it? if :element-type is FIXNUM then I can create a compact array of FIXNUM's 19:04:12 jasom: Right - that's what I'm doing. upgraded-array-element-type is currently T 19:04:18 drmeister: you don't even have strings? 19:04:21 for every :element-type. 19:04:25 well u-a-e-t of characte has to be character, and af ew other things 19:04:37 stassats`: Yes I have strings. Not unicode though. 19:04:54 well, strings are arrays of element-type being a subtype of character 19:05:02 Bike: oh, damn, so T isn't allowed 19:05:11 (nil arrays are included into that, but let's disregard that) 19:05:14 bit base-char and character need to all exist 19:05:22 Right - sorry - I forgot about strings - I did implement those. 19:05:45 jasom: of course that only means that array-element-type has to be appropriate, you don't have to actually change how the data is stored or anything. 19:06:00 And I implemented bit-array. 19:06:51 drmeister: notably, you could have base-char = c:char, or (subtypep 'c:char base-char) with (upgraded-array-element-type 'c:char) -> c:char so that (make-array 10 :element-type 'c:char :initial-value #\a) = (char*)"aaaaaaaaaa" + some bookkeeping slots. 19:07:10 I like the way MAKE-ARRAY is this factory function that creates different kinds of arrays based on what you need. 19:07:23 "factory function"? 19:07:37 constructors. 19:07:45 That's right, u-a-e-t of nil can't be t, becuase nil is a subtype of char, and u-a-e-t of char must be type-equivalent to char 19:08:02 s/char/character 19:09:59 is make-array's factory vertically integrated then? 19:10:20 "vertically integrated"? 19:10:21 it's yet to horizontally integrate vector and #(, at least 19:10:34 :-) 19:10:37 stassats`: it's OOspeak. Factory methods are methods that create new instances. Factory classes are classes whose purpose is to create instances. 19:10:46 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@219.Red-79-150-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:04 stassats`: in CLOS it's useless, you just pass a symbol naming the class you want. 19:11:18 make-instance being the universal standard-object factory function. 19:12:22 too bad make-instance doesn't work on built-in-classes, eh 19:12:41 (make-instance 'integer :initial-value ?) 19:12:55 Bike: Why is that too bad? 19:13:09 i wasn't serious 19:13:12 lack of symetry. 19:13:34 pjb made me imagine (make-instance 'array :dimensions 4 :initial-element #\a :element-type 'character), though 19:13:34 I appreciate the lack of symmetry. 19:13:42 well, (make-instance 'vector :length 10 :initial-element 10) 19:14:24 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 19:14:27 constructors don't make much sense for literal objects 19:14:32 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 19:15:03 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:03 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:17:23 -!- iLogical is now known as bergoglio 19:19:57 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:25:07 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-qolieqmszukxlsve] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:46 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:01 dekuked [~dekuked@64.13.64.46] has joined #lisp 19:27:58 is there anything like before/after methods for functions? 19:28:04 no 19:28:10 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.242.246] has quit [] 19:28:15 sort of 19:28:19 nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:26 damn 19:28:27 Allegro and maybe LW too has a thing called advise 19:28:29 Not portably 19:28:42 sbcl has some internal thing 19:29:07 I've been thinking that before/after methods are hell on readability anyway 19:29:19 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:19 As nice as they are to write 19:30:19 djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:06 masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:52 ooh i just realized the function that i wanted an after method for actually calls a method internally which I can attach the after too 19:34:00 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:26 drewc: hey. new version's ready for download. let me know when you're up to test your gamepad 19:35:02 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:58 EVVIVA ER PAPA! 19:36:29 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 19:36:40 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 19:37:43 abeaumont [~abeaumont@219.Red-79-150-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:20 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:33 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:25 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:30 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:37 insomniaSalt [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 19:39:51 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 19:44:03 arenz [~arenz@cable-static-163-17.intergga.ch] has joined #lisp 19:44:11 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:45:04 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:45:31 clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:50 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:49:43 normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-70-129-206-153.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:08 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:49 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 19:57:14 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 19:57:35 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 19:58:05 clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:19 some lisp procedural-content-generation stuff: these are zoomed out overviews of generated puzzle levels in my new lispgame. http://imgur.com/a/85JKr 19:59:04 it nests the colors/gates in various ways always making them solvable. 20:02:01 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:19 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03:44 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:03:53 impomatic [~digital_w@87.115.125.6] has joined #lisp 20:04:02 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 20:04:02 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 20:04:02 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 20:05:02 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:11 ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has joined #lisp 20:06:24 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@217.149.135.124] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.186.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:06:39 -!- arenz [~arenz@cable-static-163-17.intergga.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:07:31 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-vdepqaxzvnjvrngl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:13 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:40 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:09:15 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-123-55.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:14:48 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-91-193-41-BusName-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:19 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-139-113.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:22:05 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:26 jsj [~johan@unaffiliated/jsj] has joined #lisp 20:24:05 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:24:20 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:30:43 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rejcykmmzwqdiznu] has joined #lisp 20:30:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 20:31:09 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 20:32:04 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:32:26 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:35:33 each - i'm more that happy to rename cl-otp, and now that you mention it is confusing  suggestions are most welcome  everybody loves a round of name the bike shed eh? 20:35:45 each? Xach ^ 20:37:24 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:09 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-70-129-206-153.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [] 20:38:55 bhyde: the current name is just fine 20:43:02 bhyde: are you joining us at mary chung for dinner? 20:44:03 -!- masondesu [~textual@71-12-31-113.static.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:44:34 hope so, but I haven't' synch'd up with my honey yet 20:45:39 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:13 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 20:46:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:25 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:49:18 bhyde: cl-one-time-password 20:50:03 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:51:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:53:50 ¬ cl-three-letter-acronym ! 20:55:01 tla is my second favorite acronym, just behind AAAAA :) 20:55:12 minion: tla ? 20:55:13 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 20:55:37 tla is three letter acronym 20:56:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@144.90-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:58:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:59:38 fightback [~david@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 21:00:27 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:02:28 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-utuyjcrowxpznhed] has joined #lisp 21:02:28 Lest we forget, I must mention "Copy Address Register" 21:03:48 patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:27 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:03 tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:54 ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:06:11 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@177.224.208.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:06:15 bhyde: it was actually more fun and convoluted than that... 21:06:57 ... like the four-element CONS cell 21:07:49 arenz [~arenz@cable-static-163-17.intergga.ch] has joined #lisp 21:08:11 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:28 -!- patojo [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:51 -!- SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:08:58 dim: Association Amicale des Amateurs d'Andouillette à l'Ancienne? 21:09:16 that's the fr one, not so funny 21:09:28 I prefer the American Association Against Acronym Abuse 21:09:44 haha 21:09:46 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:00 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:21 I like ETLA myself: Extended TLA. 21:11:08 btw in case you missed that out: CL-USER> (* 111111111 111111111) is 12345678987654321 21:11:16 who replied, when asked what were the scarcest resource in computing today, "TLAs"? 21:12:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:14:02 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc07-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:33 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:16:15 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-utuyjcrowxpznhed] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:17:03 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 21:17:09 dim: how old are you? I had fun with 11^2 with my calculator when I was 12. :-) 21:17:35 61960065 ! 21:17:40 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@70-91-193-41-BusName-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:17:43 I discovered it this week on twitter... and I'm not 12 anymore 21:17:47 Thra11_ [~thrall@82.43.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:59 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:26 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:59 dto: heh ... remind me a wee bit later if you can ... I just woke up so am still 21:20:15 okay. 21:20:28 'morning mind' ... even though it is 14:20 21:20:34 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@24.170.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21:21 no problem drewc just beep me 21:22:16 dto: I hope I remember, quite excited about this tbh :) 21:25:27 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:39 dioxirane [~polimath@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:27:04 -!- bergoglio is now known as iLogical 21:28:00 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-powncmwxfntnqzcb] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:28:08 -!- dioxirane [~polimath@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:29 drewc: are you on Windows? just found a bug in the new release, where some microsoft usb mice register as a joystick and push upleft constantly, making the game unplayable 21:29:06 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:29:38 dto: have not used windows since '96 ... though I do have XP installed under virtualbox for testing IE 1 through 10 21:30:22 -!- _d3f [~gnu@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 21:31:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-172.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:30 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-147-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:14 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:36 -!- Guest14731 is now known as z0d 21:38:48 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:38:49 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 21:39:05 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:12 dioxirane [~riffs@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:39:44 dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-5-144.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:41:58 -!- dioxirane [~riffs@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: enormous numbers could create a mental black hole :)] 21:43:11 *Xach* is on the train to Boston Lisp Dinner 21:43:37 A Lisp Fry? Grilled Lisp? 21:43:41 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:50 A Pot Lisp Dinner? 21:44:10 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 21:45:58 Thra11 [~thrall@82.43.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:46 Pot Lisp? I am in Vancouver BC after all ... So pot is quite commom ... and I do lisp a wee bit .. 21:46:54 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@82.43.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:46:59 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-192-63.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:03 slyrus [~chatzilla@70-91-193-41-BusName-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:03 an evening of chungian analysis 21:48:13 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 21:48:13 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 21:48:13 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 21:48:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:07 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:17 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-231-164.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:49:27 slyrus: are you hyped or what? 21:49:29 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:49:52 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:30 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:50:34 a little bit jetlagged, but looking forward to dinner. are you joining us? 21:51:10 Indeed I am, rocketing in from waltham at the speed of commuter rail! 21:51:27 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:23 *drewc* will be in boston by 2020 he hopes .... 21:53:40 Xach: awesome! 21:54:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:43 *esr* wants to slap Xach with a large fish for that "chungian analysis" line. 21:54:50 yo 21:55:12 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:55:50 Enjoy your Chinese food. Wish I were there. 21:56:01 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:15 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.130] has joined #lisp 21:56:33 *esr* thinks wistfully of twice-cooked pork made spicy. 21:56:35 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:57:31 *Xach* neglected to bring nyef's book yet again, does not know if nyef will be there to miss it 21:58:02 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0108dc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:58:55 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:59:26 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:03:15 -!- arenz [~arenz@cable-static-163-17.intergga.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:35 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:07:46 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:07:52 -!- dekuked [~dekuked@64.13.64.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:08:08 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:08:37 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:09:04 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 22:10:44 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-zlbgepzryegxtrfn] has joined #lisp 22:11:10 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:12:08 -!- jsj [~johan@unaffiliated/jsj] has left #lisp 22:12:26 Xach: I'm going to be a few minutes late. see you there between 645 and 7. 22:13:16 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 22:15:34 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.214] has joined #lisp 22:16:48 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 22:16:49 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:03 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 22:18:14 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:18:31 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:20:50 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:21:51 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:581b:f305:5b5c:f7ee] has joined #lisp 22:22:10 -!- fightback [~david@163-116.199-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 22:26:24 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:51 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 22:28:49 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.181.69] has joined #lisp 22:28:59 masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-116-146.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.106.214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:57 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:06 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:56 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-zlbgepzryegxtrfn] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:47 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:34:18 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:38 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:22 any comments on the state of libraries in CL vs R4RS? I'm looking at doing a small lisp implementation and wondering which one I could get the most milage out of. 22:35:49 what do you mean? 22:35:58 r4rs is two behind now, isn't it 22:36:07 those are different worlds.. r4rs is tiny, compared to CL (which is huge) 22:36:13 also, r7rs is almost finished ;) 22:36:38 i've implemented r5rs, it isn't too hard 22:36:57 really, didn't know that 7 was upon us just knew that ppl didn't like 5 for being "big" XP 22:37:02 if you implement r4rs, then you can probably load up most of SLIB, though it probably required r5rs 22:37:18 5 is 4++, 6 was BIG 22:37:28 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:32 arrdem: that's 6, which isn't liked too much, thus 7 :) 22:37:37 ah. 22:37:40 "small lisp implementation" ... so likely not 'Common' then ;) 22:37:56 what did you write yours in ecraven ? 22:38:15 small vm in C, the rest in scheme itself :) master's thesis, nothing special 22:38:15 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:38:27 hacool 22:38:28 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:38:29 ah 22:38:38 compile to vm bytecodes? 22:38:59 i've been thinking about a self-like implementation of scheme, incremental code-generation at runtime etc.. but nothing except thinking done so far 22:39:06 yea 22:39:09 yes, custom vm, nothing complicated 22:39:14 and really slow :) 22:39:28 I've been musing doing a scheme -- I peer at the L.I.S.P. book on my book shelf every now and then. 22:39:30 yea 22:39:32 I bet :) 22:39:33 lol 22:39:39 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:40:27 well, r5rs is simple enough to do in a short time 22:40:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:40:34 have to go, good night! 22:40:41 kk take care 22:40:43 ok thanks ecraven 22:42:58 but look at SLIB arrdem -- there's a bunch of stuff in there, if you write a CL you have to write much of that yourself. 22:43:01 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 22:43:49 I thin kit would be easer to write a scheme, then tweak it to add CL features, then start over with your better experience. 22:44:00 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@i52104.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:44:49 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:44:53 chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 22:45:07 fe[nl]ix: hey. remember me? =) http://ircbrowse.net/browse/lisp?id=98382×tamp=1362430312&events_per_page=100#t1362430312 22:46:13 chrisdone: you wrote it already ? 22:46:19 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:46:22 fe[nl]ix: i've imported the last 12~ years of #haskell logs over the past week or so. this evening i imported the #lisp logs from 2013 so far =) 22:46:28 fe[nl]ix: sure did! :D 22:46:43 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:46:43 oh dear 22:46:53 "What happens on the internet, stays on the internet" 22:47:14 whartung: sure does -- all #lisp is logged on tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp 22:47:56 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@46.36.160.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:48:10 whartung: oddly, it doesn't seem to be in the channel topic here do people know they're being publically logged? 22:48:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:36 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:52 I didn't! :) but I always assume it anyway 22:49:03 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 22:49:10 see rule 1: what happens on the internet stays for all time 22:50:03 oh dear, and I've never used a "handle!" 22:50:39 Thankfully, I've only been around since '93... 22:50:48 so, only 20 years... 22:53:51 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:37 i'm quite enjoying this project as a database problem. the search is using sphinx and the pagination has a special table, because postgresql's OFFSET takes about a second and ORDER BY adds another 5 seconds to that. with a special table containing a number mapping between a timestamp-ordered set of numbers and the actual message ids, it takes a millisec to do =] 22:54:58 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:11 it's nice having static data 22:55:44 #lisp's logs should be about 8 millionish rows, fully imported, i think. so in total i'll be dealing with 23 mil 22:55:57 yeah right, it only changes once a day and i can regenerate all the indexes and cache tables 22:55:57 how does it get from 8 to 23? 22:56:05 whartung: because haskell's is 15 mil 22:56:08 o 22:56:16 only the end changes, the legacy stuff never changes. 22:56:23 no reason to build it all from scratch 22:56:28 (well I don't know what you're indexing...) 22:56:33 but, the page stuff specifically 22:57:10 oh, sure 22:57:20 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:58:00 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-173.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:18 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:33 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:23 fe[nl]ix: anyhoo, kevin gave me the go ahead, nice of him. cheers! 23:00:26 -!- chrisdone [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has left #lisp 23:01:22 -!- kmb [~kmb@rrcs-50-75-221-94.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kmb] 23:02:44 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-224-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:02:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:00 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:36 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:11:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:12:04 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:20 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:34 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8C57.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:15:35 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:17:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:42 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:18:59 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 23:19:46 I have a slot that I set through a method, in which it changes the value of another slot. If I want a DRY code, should I put a key parameter for it on initialize-instance directly and set it through the method on the body of initialize-instance, instead of using initarg and initform? 23:20:42 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:22:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:22:51 -!- az [~andre@kettu.znaider.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:23:12 Guest41969 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:13 Denommus: is the other slot meant to be assigned to any other way? 23:23:13 az [~andre@kettu.znaider.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:00 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop250.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:25:13 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:25:43 -!- basho___ [~petrosil@norma.uberspace.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:59 pkhuong: no 23:28:20 symbole [~user@krlh-5f71cf09.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:35 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:31:03 basho___ [~petrosil@norma.uberspace.de] has joined #lisp 23:32:06 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:37 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:03 SKC [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:29 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:36:30 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:f7e0:75b9:3d8b:8fd0:5c29] has joined #lisp 23:38:44 -!- tsetumel_ [~shimoco@bzq-79-176-126-211.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:38:46 edgar-rft [~GOD@hsi-kbw-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:38:56 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:40:32 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:36 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:45 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 23:55:48 -!- bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:57 slime does not show me in which function my code is giving errors 23:56:16 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:49 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-74-177-116-146.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:58:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]