00:00:11 -!- knob2_ [~knob@66-50-4-254.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:01:26 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:04:21 daniel` [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:24 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:07 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.172] has joined #lisp 00:12:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:00 no. it's not enough. 00:14:01 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:36 everything still depends on source files and .cache/common-lisp/... if you just do that. If anything gets touched or moved, it will try to reload the system again. 00:14:45 But I think I got this now. 00:15:05 If you want to register a system as preloaded, you also have to clear it with (asdf:clear-system ) first. 00:15:24 so, for example to register cl-who as being preloaded in a dumped image, then just before dumping, do: 00:15:42 (asdf:clear-system :cl-who) (asdf/find-system:register-preloaded-system :cl-who) 00:16:04 then when you start the dumped image, if you do (ql:quickload :cl-who), it will instantly return and not try to load anything. 00:16:12 good to know 00:16:53 it seems asdf should have built-in functionality for this as part of the dump, I'll try to write something up and submit it to Fare. 00:16:55 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:17 it should go through all the registered systems, and for each one, clear it, then register it as preloaded. 00:17:30 that should be a standard pre-dump hook action, I would 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DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.141.10] has joined #lisp 00:41:06 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:38 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.172] has joined #lisp 00:50:41 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:11 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:16 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@24.178.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:54:25 abeaumont [~abeaumont@24.178.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 00:54:56 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 01:00:04 Ha, I wrote a copy of the package system, including PACKAGE-SHADOWING-SYMBOLS, yet completely forgot about PACKAGE-SHADOWING-SYMBOLS until I stumbled on it today. 01:00:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:07 tsk tsk :) 01:01:34 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:01:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:01:59 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:05:01 -!- daniel` [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:07:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 01:08:56 -!- veer is now known as _veer 01:09:03 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:09:04 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:11:18 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:47 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:17:05 redscare [~Adium@18.189.117.124] has joined #lisp 01:18:56 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:17 rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-81-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:19 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:21 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.117.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:28:39 redscare [~Adium@18.189.117.124] has joined #lisp 01:30:45 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:37 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:40 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:45:33 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.117.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-178-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:53:27 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:02 in inferior lisp mode how do I send an s-expression from the buffer to the lisp console in emacs? 01:59:06 I thought it was C-c C-c 01:59:57 You press return. C-c C-c is for Lisp mode buffers 02:00:20 pkhuong, I can't send a region of code to the console? 02:00:35 I'm working in a file in one buffer and I have lisp open in another 02:00:36 You said you're in inferior lisp mode. 02:01:06 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-105-36.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:01:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.141.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:03:39 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:53 human [~happy@14.96.90.237] has joined #lisp 02:07:17 -!- human is now known as Guest22997 02:07:33 -!- Guest22997 [~happy@14.96.90.237] has quit [Client Quit] 02:08:14 C-M-x ? 02:08:36 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:09:15 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:09:23 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-170-136.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:11:39 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:05 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:14:18 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:15:20 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.139.14] has joined #lisp 02:15:48 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:22:21 for defun 02:24:57 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:05 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-neturxklrukjopss] has joined #lisp 02:27:10 enupten [~neptune@c-24-18-243-195.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:20 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.168.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:30:31 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:45 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:32 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:36 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 02:35:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:30 -!- rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-81-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:48 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 02:40:12 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:44:03 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:05 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:49:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.168.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:49:43 which cache i am using: ls -l .cache/common-lisp/cli 02:49:44 clisp-2.49-unix-x86/ clisp-2.49-unix/ 02:50:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-170-136.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:54:37 rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-81-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:01 meiji11 [~user@d75-158-40-174.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:36 does anyone know how to get the current fasl type extension from asdf? 03:02:48 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:58 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:05:39 here it is (uiop:compile-file-type) 03:06:53 gendl: what's uiop ? 03:07:03 fare just renamed asdf-driver to uiop 03:07:17 what Qworkescense said. 03:10:03 klfwip^i [~karl@140.193.135.39] has joined #lisp 03:13:00 -!- klfwip^i [~karl@140.193.135.39] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:16:10 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@66.194.102.6] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 03:19:52 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:20:10 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 03:22:00 ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 03:26:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.139.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:27:50 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:30:15 -!- rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-81-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:29 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:31:41 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:46 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 03:39:57 zacts [~lcc@67-0-189-50.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:41 -!- zacts [~lcc@67-0-189-50.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:40:42 zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 03:41:35 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 03:44:41 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:44:48 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-25-34.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:44:49 -!- Bacteria_ is now known as Bacteria 03:51:29 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:51:51 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 -!- Bike is now known as Bicyclidine 03:54:51 rtoyg_ [~rtoyg@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 03:55:14 Any ccl folks around? 03:55:36 RazWelles [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:17 Mad_Gouki [~alex@unaffiliated/mad-gouki/x-8271160] has joined #lisp 03:56:19 hi 03:57:08 -!- RazWelles_ [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:02:50 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:59 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: casion] 04:04:24 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:07:33 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:07:38 rtoyg_: i'm using CCL at the moment but i'm not really a CCL folk 04:08:14 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.99.240] has joined #lisp 04:14:16 gendl: I was just curious if the following is a bug in ccl 04:14:18 Guest97243 [~ilisp@220.191.186.26] has joined #lisp 04:14:27 (deftype foo () '(complex double-float)) 04:14:37 (coerce #c(1 2) 'foo) 04:15:12 i think coerce only has to work with literal 'complex 04:15:44 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:15:47 -!- Guest97243 is now known as cfy 04:15:48 -!- cfy [~ilisp@220.191.186.26] has quit [Changing host] 04:15:48 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:15:52 Bicyclidine: Where does it say that? 04:16:04 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:16:11 clhs coerce 04:16:11 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 04:16:11 Anyway, ccl gives an error. cmucl and sbcl return #c(1d0 2d0). 04:16:13 hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 04:16:37 e.g. "If the result-type is a recognizable subtype of list" vs "If the result-type is complex" 04:16:46 nowl [~nowl@pool-173-48-242-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:17:51 that said, (coerce #c(4 5) '(complex double-float)) already works, so you could probably get ccl's maintainers to do that anyway. 04:18:08 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:22 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:00 Bicyclidine: Interesting. I never took that as being literally the only allowed things. Plus, it would imply (coerce foo '(complex double-float)) is not portable. 04:21:30 yes. 04:21:50 I'm not sure. Coerce is a weird function and type specifiers are weird things. 04:21:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:23:12 But usually the CLHS is reasonably specific about "recognizable subtype". 04:23:55 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:27 Yeah, I would have expected that. 04:24:56 And what happens if you have base-chars and characters. You can't coerce to base-char because it's not one of the listed result-types. 04:25:29 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has joined #lisp 04:26:10 And ccl is the only lisp I have that doesn't support (coerce #c(1 2) 'foo). 04:26:26 It works with clisp, cmucl, ecl, and sbcl. 04:28:06 Oh, I see the problem in the source. 04:28:06 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:34 It's pretty dumb. coerce canonicalizes the output type spec but then calls coerce-to-complex which works on the literal output type spec instead of the ctype. 04:28:56 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has quit [Client Quit] 04:29:24 Bicyclidine: I'd appreciate it if you could fix it or let the ccl guys know about it. 04:29:48 Yeah, sure, let me see... 04:29:48 *rtoyg_* seems to have forgotten his trac.clozure.com id or he'd file the bug himself. 04:30:07 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:36:47 thomas_yzj [~thomas_yz@175.0.175.21] has joined #lisp 04:37:10 ccl sbcl which one is better? 04:41:26 The one that works best for you. 04:41:59 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:42:09 -!- Bicyclidine is now known as Bike 04:43:04 which is stronger and works efficient 04:43:19 Mu 04:43:36 thomas_yzj: CCL has a nice fast compiler, SBCL has a faster runtime. 04:43:38 CCL compiles faster. SBCL usually (often?) emits faster code. Neither is stronger, as compilers are notoriously bad weightlifters. 04:44:07 CCL is better supported on Windows (at least, portableallegroserve runs on it on Windows, not on SBCL) 04:47:04 when i use quicklisp to install antik on windows7 ccl then it shows that lack a .dll file 04:48:02 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.153.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49:33 thomas_yzj: that sounds like an antik issue not a CCL issue. 04:51:45 rtoyg_: can I /query you? 04:52:15 Sure. 04:52:27 Well. Maybe. I don't know what /query is. 04:52:31 /msg 04:52:51 Yes. No need to ask. I just won't answer. :-) 04:54:12 -!- karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:55:32 k0001 [~k0001@host22.186-125-97.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:55:51 -!- thomas_yzj [~thomas_yz@175.0.175.21] has quit [] 04:56:28 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has joined #lisp 04:58:24 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@24.178.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:59:35 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 05:00:01 *Quadrescence* cannot understand why he did (with-compilation-unit () (defconstant empty-box (simple-box 0 0 0))) two years ago. 05:00:55 it was probably about that time that you needed it... :) 05:02:11 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 05:02:15 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:17 sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 05:06:14 Hi! Any way to use CASE macro with strings, or do I need to use COND? 05:07:38 tigranes: there's string-case in quicklisp 05:08:08 and switch in alexandria 05:09:00 Ah, okay, thanks! 05:11:54 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:14:08 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.173.25] has joined #lisp 05:16:26 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:19:16 seangrove [~user@173.247.206.166] has joined #lisp 05:19:28 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 05:19:59 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:37 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.153.58] has joined #lisp 05:28:41 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:29:44 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:43 lemald [~eddie@184-76-34-40.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:34 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 05:35:26 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:35:54 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:38:47 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has joined #lisp 05:40:39 ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-107-040-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:04 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 05:42:24 -!- meiji11 [~user@d75-158-40-174.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:42:26 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:21 I've been exploring the series package and I'm not sure what to make of its warning messages. some of the basic examples given in cltl2 produce warnings but it doesn't actually seem to affect the optimizations 05:47:33 e.g. (defun simple-collect-sum (numbers) (declare (optimizable-series-function 1)) (collect-fn 'number #'(lambda () 0) #'+ numbers)) from A.3.3 gives a "Non-series to series data flow" warning, but throwing in some print statements shows that it's able to interleave the computation with other series functions just fine 05:51:59 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:52:05 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:52:59 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:34 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:21 drewc: the other day you said "*is not going to say why he does not like and does not use SERIES , just that he does not.*" - could I goad you into saying why? 05:55:59 Dalek_Baldwin: maybe simple-collect-sum itself does bad ports? 05:56:27 what does that mean exactly? 05:57:26 I don't honestly remember. 05:57:51 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:58:49 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 05:59:50 -!- pegu [~user@cF469BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:21 Dalek_Baldwin: When do you get the warning? When compiling it? 06:00:58 I'm not sure, so far I've only eval-defuned through slime 06:01:01 *rtoyg_* doesn't get any warnings, compiled or not. 06:01:38 No warnings that way either. 06:02:27 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has joined #lisp 06:03:07 oh, I don't get the warning if I paste the defun form into the repl 06:04:47 Dalek_Baldwin: there are a number of reasons. The simple excuse is "I do not like using other languages on top of Common Lisp to do programming tasks" ... I can argue both ways about how my excuse is wrong, but it is /simple/. 06:05:48 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.175.21] has quit [Client Quit] 06:06:06 *Bike* glances at topic 06:06:42 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.213] has joined #lisp 06:06:50 Bike: and now on common-lisp.net as well :) 06:07:28 -!- nowl [~nowl@pool-173-48-242-12.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:07:40 mm? 06:08:06 Bike: "the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language" 06:08:18 huh, (let ((x (scan '(1 2 5 2)))) (collect-max (#M/ x (series (collect-sum x))))) gives me one warning when I C-x C-e it, and a different warning in the repl 06:08:46 *drewc* glances at topic as well because it has been a while ... 06:09:18 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 06:09:19 still there .. phew 06:09:44 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:10:36 rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-81-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:42 Dalek_Baldwin: I get the same warnings both ways. 06:11:19 this warning? "Constraint cycle passes through the non-series output at the beginning of the data flow" 06:11:45 that's what I think I should get, based on the example in the documentation, and it's what I get in the repl 06:11:51 Yes. 06:12:03 Maybe it's package something? 06:12:10 and C-x C-e gives me a "Non-series to series data flow" 06:12:24 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 06:12:39 -!- seangrove [~user@173.247.206.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:42 could be... 06:12:52 I get the same both ways. 06:12:57 Did you (series::install)? 06:13:27 I loaded through quicklisp 06:13:30 do I need to do that? 06:14:09 It shadows let and some other things. 06:14:39 Yes, you should. 06:15:15 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:16:38 ah I see, it has to perform more voodoo than I imagined 06:18:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.99.240] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:19:30 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:59 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:06 -!- clintm [~user@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:22:04 ck__ [~ck@dslb-188-107-040-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:22:51 sdemarre [~serge@50.93-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:23:35 why doesnot CLX translate numpad codes ? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13174207/cannot-use-keyboards-numpad-to-input-digit 06:24:46 By adding (setf numpad '((87 . 10) (88 . 11) ...)) into #'process-input in input.lisp, stumpwm will work. However, it seems not to be a canonical way ... 06:25:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:27:29 *sw2wolf* Doesnot anybody encounter such a problem using stumpwm ? 06:28:15 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33:25 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:33:45 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:18 k0001_ [~k0001@host35.190-226-194.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:39:59 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 06:40:57 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host22.186-125-97.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:41:31 a short way to write INTERLEAVE I just thought of: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135894 06:41:31 Quadrescence, memo from ogamita: there are 34 four-letter horizontal monotonic chords on the qwerty keyboard. You do the progression bar. 06:41:31 Quadrescence, memo from pkhuong: I think you'll find http://arxiv.org/abs/1303.0328 interesting. 06:42:30 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:46:54 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:19 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:48:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:25 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:49:34 bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 06:49:52 -!- bubo is now known as Guest35368 06:50:10 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:57 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:03 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.59] has joined #lisp 06:55:51 clintm [~user@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:54 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:00:05 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:05:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@50.93-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:43 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-170-136.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:06:56 -!- clintm [~user@c-76-121-226-80.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:09:29 -!- rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-81-230.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:17:04 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-169-79.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:02 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:19:32 How can I write a persistent application (irc bot in this case) that is very robust against possible condtions that are unknown during the development? 07:20:02 Basically I want it to continue to run if possible and not drop into the debugger 07:20:14 handler-bind, restarts 07:20:42 when i wrote a irc bot i had a handler-bind form that wrote the error to a log and then continued on its merry way 07:21:49 -!- Guest35368 [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:24:35 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-18-64.bjzv3.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:27:36 Bike: so just catch all conditions? but what restarts should I use? 07:28:50 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:28:55 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-18-64.bjzv3.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:29:19 well, what i did is just for user commands, i could just handle the condition by leaving the handler as if nothing happened 07:29:42 I see 07:30:30 Bike: And why did you use handler-bind and not handler-case? 07:30:48 i misremembered, i used handler-case. though if i wanted to restart i'd've used handler-bind. 07:36:24 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:20 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ouxaeklbdlvrplys] has joined #lisp 07:39:06 -!- ASau [~user@92.116.206.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:42:14 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:42:35 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:50:04 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:50:24 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:53:17 -!- lemald [~eddie@184-76-34-40.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:55:59 peterhil- [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 07:57:26 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 07:57:39 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@158.195.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:58:56 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:59:32 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.153.58] has left #lisp 08:03:12 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 08:03:12 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03:28 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has left #lisp 08:03:53 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:04:52 nostoi [~nostoi@222.Red-79-155-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:56 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:05:28 clintm [~user@72-62-126-77.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:51 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:07:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:08:15 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 cdidd [~cdidd@95-25-142-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:10:06 ehu [~ehu@109.34.214.210] has joined #lisp 08:16:36 -!- waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:20:48 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:20 zorkmoid [c2ed8e15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.21] has joined #lisp 08:25:09 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host35.190-226-194.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:26:10 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:28:38 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 08:33:03 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:37:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:39:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:40:46 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has joined #lisp 08:43:54 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 08:45:01 impomatic [~digital_w@158.195.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:46 -!- rotty_ [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:45 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.205] has joined #lisp 08:47:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:48:48 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:50:03 minion: memo for sw2wolf: when CLX was written, keyboards didn't have numeric keypads yet. 08:50:03 Remembered. I'll tell sw2wolf when he/she/it next speaks. 08:51:42 -!- joooooo [setmeaway3@118.45.149.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:52:24 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:24 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:52:32 sepi: basically, you wrap the bodies of some strategical loops in a handler-case. You can use handle-bind and restart if you want to be able to recover from errors more smartly. But often it's enough just to drop the current task, and go on to the next in the loop. 08:54:09 -!- clintm [~user@72-62-126-77.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:54:12 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:18 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:57:01 rtoyg_: my patch was a bit wrong. i changed it on the ticket. 08:57:18 -!- enupten [~neptune@c-24-18-243-195.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:57:55 ogamita: are you entierly sure that this is true? 08:57:59 clx is what, 20 years? 08:58:24 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 08:58:29 zorkmoid: no, I'm joking :-) 08:58:42 ogamita: ah, ok :-) 08:58:57 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 08:59:05 But possibly keypad keysyms weren't defined yet, or the clx programmer didn't have one, or they were different from keyboard to keyboard, etc. 08:59:10 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:22 i think they where different 08:59:28 Notice how some keyboards had digits there, while some other had arrows, or function keys. 09:00:01 And in early X server, it wasn't easy to redefine the keysyms, you had to patch the sources and recompile it. 09:00:08 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has joined #lisp 09:00:33 the KPS-10 had a number keyboard, 09:00:51 and i think the bolix you could attach a number keypad 09:01:09 I'm wondering if clx has been developed on Macintosh 09:02:21 (i am quite sure i used a numpad on the bolix ...) 09:05:52 eldariof [~CLD@188.168.243.197] has joined #lisp 09:07:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:07:51 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:09:24 the vt220 had a numpad 09:09:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:12:27 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 09:13:02 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:14:07 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:14:19 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:14:46 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:15:15 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:17 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 09:16:28 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:16:54 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:18:46 could you run X on it? 09:19:22 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has joined #lisp 09:19:24 teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.202] has joined #lisp 09:20:26 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:22:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:04 please see this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135896 09:23:39 Anyone has an idea to reduce the number of notes so that the code is better optimized? suggestions very much welcome 09:23:40 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:58 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@222.Red-79-155-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Seite geschlossen] 09:27:16 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29:44 Morid [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 09:31:15 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:32:00 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:33:03 Posterdati [~antani@host98-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:33:46 that seems overly complicated. 09:36:12 francogrex: if you remove the declares you shouldn't get any warnings 09:36:13 not complicated, 09:36:31 zorkmoid: hmm but that's not the aim 09:37:12 sure, my suggestion is to start over with the declares, and only introduce one at the time. 09:39:10 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-016-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:42:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:42:44 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:08 not really, without declares there is not issue 09:44:28 ccorn [~ccorn@oosteinde.castasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:50 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:47:26 -!- Morid is now known as Houl 09:50:12 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.34.214.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:51:03 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:55:34 not really what? 09:56:55 -!- MoALTz__ is now known as MoALTz 09:58:14 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:10 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:01:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:04:30 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:04:39 momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.74] has joined #lisp 10:06:15 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.5] has joined #lisp 10:06:36 has anyone written a library for converting html to markdown? 10:06:54 sort of the reverse of cl-markdown 10:10:49 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-249-134.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:11:26 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:12:08 jarmond [~user@137.205.238.40] has joined #lisp 10:12:16 momo-reina: NAFAIK, but it should be easy enough to write. 10:12:25 Using a library to parse html. 10:13:43 seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has joined #lisp 10:14:11 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:14:34 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:55 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:16:15 hi! does slime development still happen on cvs, and is there an up-to-date git mirror available? I'd like to produce some patches this weekend 10:16:34 right, just didn't want to reinvent the wheel :) do you have any advice regarding to which html parsing library? i'm aware of cl-html-parse and closure html but have no experience with either. 10:18:27 sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has joined #lisp 10:19:31 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 10:21:49 rudi: i'm using git://github.com/antifuchs/slime.git 10:21:55 thanks! 10:21:56 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:24:46 am0c [~am0c@182.221.131.152] has joined #lisp 10:25:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:27:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:26 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-194-134-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:34:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:45 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:38:12 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.243.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:41:18 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:43:19 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:44:22 -!- sttau [~sttau@unaffiliated/sttau] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:44 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:49:10 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 10:51:28 -!- momo-reina [~user@110.50.241.74] has left #lisp 10:55:16 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:56:26 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.137.196] has joined #lisp 10:59:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:00:34 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-107-040-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:47 -!- ck__ is now known as ck_ 11:01:39 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:12 redraiment [~chatzilla@218.108.209.198] has joined #lisp 11:04:52 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:10:25 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:19 -!- redraiment [~chatzilla@218.108.209.198] has left #lisp 11:12:03 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:12:24 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 11:13:15 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75508f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:23 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.5] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:20:02 abeaumont [~abeaumont@24.178.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:20:27 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:26:16 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-203-126-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 11:28:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:11 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-194-134-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:30:23 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:34:05 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:25 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-4-254.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:38:51 k0001 [~k0001@host71.186-109-102.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 11:39:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:35 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:08 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 11:43:14 I have about 3 months of Clojure behind me, learned the basics. I am a let's say freetime programmer, have some experience in a couple other languages. What good book or site would you reference me to learn CL? I prefer having at least some examples than learning from a reference manual 11:43:28 chouwa [wld@2a01:130:2000:121:230:48ff:fe64:340a] has joined #lisp 11:44:04 minion tell xificurC about paip 11:44:13 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:44:15 (is it the way you ask the bot?) 11:44:21 xificurC: also, practical common lisp 11:44:37 Eldariof28-ru [~CLD@188.168.241.119] has joined #lisp 11:45:02 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-203-126-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:45:34 antoszka: paip? 11:45:56 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:45:57 http://norvig.com/paip.html 11:45:58 paradigms in artificial intelligence programming 11:46:47 though practical common lisp might be good despite knowing clojure already, to cover the different ways some stuff is approached 11:48:52 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 11:49:33 holy cow 900+ pages 11:50:08 and the book is 20 years old although I understand the basics didnt change since then 11:50:19 it does use some old, odd constructs 11:50:22 xificurC: PAIP is more for some advanced techniques, actually 11:50:56 that's why I recommend PCL anyway - it starts from zero, but you can race through the basics and concentrate on differences 11:51:28 p_l: cool thanks. Also, what is your opinion on Clojure? 11:51:37 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-18-64.bjzv3.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:52:36 -!- jarmond [~user@137.205.238.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:52:37 or put another way - do CLispers like clojure? 11:52:56 do we? 11:53:32 xificurC, i have heard lots of "no" 11:53:38 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@24.178.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:04 abeaumont [~abeaumont@24.178.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:55:16 xificurC: depedns 11:55:18 *depends 11:55:19 my story - it was hard to start with Clojure, after about 1,5 months it got a lot easier to think the lispy way, although still not that natural 11:55:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:38 but I really started to dislilke all the interop and the way it is evolving 11:56:19 so I stopped with it. Maybe 2 months passed 11:56:53 xificurC: I don't like the extra syntax elements, I don't like cumbersome Emacs setup that conflicts with CL's SLIME, and... if I want to have sensible building, debugging, and Emacs repl (with nrepl), I end up with three nested heavy jvm processes with lots of threads taking half a gig - and that's just the REPL 11:56:55 but I cant stop thinking about how beautiful lisp is compared to all the other languages... 11:56:55 xificurC, also be sure to check out Scheme 11:57:11 xificurC, scheme is a lot more beautiful than CL 11:57:43 Quadrescence: is it just that powerful too? 11:57:51 wouldn't know if i agree with that statement 11:58:16 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:21 xificurC, there are modern scheme implementations. Some might argue more powerful because it contains constructs CL doesn't have, but the opposite is true as well 11:58:35 xificurC, Chicken Scheme or Guile are modern implementations for example 11:59:02 xificurC: I personally prefer CL, but Scheme is worthy of a look. 11:59:08 Quadrescence: what constructs can you do in scheme that you cannot do in cl? 11:59:12 makaa [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 11:59:15 zorkmoid, call/cc is the big one 11:59:19 Quadrescence: I think I want to find out what the 'root' of all is 11:59:21 xificurC: also, consider Lisp your gateway to greater world of programming languages ;P 11:59:24 at least CL seems like it 11:59:35 xificurC, read SICP then perhaps 11:59:49 getting the root of all things tends to eradicate the one who groks it 11:59:56 (obscure joke, sorry) 12:00:15 Quadrescence: first you need to convince me that call/cc is a good idea, then you i'll show you how to do call/cc in cl :-) 12:00:33 whats sicp 12:00:37 zorkmoid, it makes writing generators easy 12:00:47 xificurC, structure and interpretation of computer programs 12:01:01 Quadrescence: cl-cont -- viola, call/cc in cl 12:01:27 zorkmoid, (1) how often do you actually see cl-cont used? (2) that is not a full and correct implementation 12:01:48 Quadrescence: i have never used call/cc for anything real world 12:01:51 Quadrescence: ugh, unluckily I'd get lost in such a book, I don't have the basics to understand this stuff 12:01:59 xificurC, what? why? 12:02:01 I didnt study programming, I just learned it by using it 12:02:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:02:11 xificurC, it's an intro to programming... 12:02:12 http://bc.tech.coop/blog/040521.html also an example of how to do call/cc i n cl 12:02:40 zorkmoid, that is implementing an evaluator 12:03:10 Quadrescence: yes, and? 12:03:17 zorkmoid, that is not in CL 12:03:20 http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/msg00601.html original thread from steele 12:03:21 that is in scheme in cl 12:03:31 Quadrescence: clearly it is cl. 12:03:56 yes and also clearly we have a condition system in ASM 12:04:09 i wouldn't know, you can have call/cc in plain cl. 12:04:09 because we have conditions in CL which compiles to ASM 12:04:19 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:04 anyway, the original argument was power. call/cc is a very powerful construct not present in lisp, and in any case, it is extremely non-trivial to add, essentially requiring you to write lisp in CPS 12:05:21 Quadrescence: sorry, call/cc is present in lisp, as i just showed. 12:05:30 and the code posted shows how trivial it is to add. 12:05:54 zorkmoid, you showed a basic evaluator that supports call/cc? 12:06:12 zorkmoid: call/cc is not present in common lisp (and it's almays impossible if you want to be compliant with regarding to condition handling) 12:06:55 segv-: many things are not present in cl, but that does nto mean that they cannot be done, call/cc is easy to do as far as i am concerned, i do not see what problem steems from condition handling, care to elaborate? 12:07:03 zorkmoid: what does (load-time-value (call/cc (constantly t))) mean? 12:07:25 with-gensym is not present either, but it still exists in most people code. 12:07:42 segv-: i don't know, i refrain from usnig call/cc which is quite ugly anyway. 12:07:43 well I started a discussion I am far away from understanding :) thanks for the tips, I think I will look into PCL 12:07:46 zorkmoid: you're not allowed to return multiple times from a handler, but you could easily do that if you used call/cc in your handler 12:08:00 (from the same handler stack i mean) 12:08:35 segv-: i don't see why that matters. 12:09:16 zorkmoid: don't misunderstand me, a limited form of continuations is extremly useful and well worth the effort. 12:09:26 but it's simply not true that you can add them to common-lisp 12:09:55 and still be standards complaint (which may or may not be a worthy goal) 12:10:18 sure you can, just write a new eval. 12:10:28 written in cl. 12:10:34 dsl is the way to go 12:11:25 this is something I wish I could do in CL but can't: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/scheme-random/src/0d265e0ec58b2968f52bf081f7912a664e6e30e4/callcc.scm?at=default#cl-35 12:11:28 i fail to see the problem. 12:11:36 see line 62 for an example 12:12:21 zorkmoid: ok, we're sort of agreeing. but i wouldn't call your dsl common lisp, it's written in common lisp, but it's not cl:eval 12:12:40 see cl-cont and arnesi for examples of implementations of continuatons in common lisp 12:12:55 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:13:00 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-205-73-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 12:14:03 (i'm trying to find pitman's article which explains the problem better than i can over irc) 12:14:14 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-249-134.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 12:14:28 segv-, the problem of adding call/cc? 12:14:34 http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PFAQ/unwind-protect-vs-continuations-original.html 12:14:37 Quadrescence: yes 12:15:34 -!- sepi [~user@mancini.lu] has left #lisp 12:16:06 I wish scheme had packages, conditions, multiple values, non-broken defmacro, dynamic scoping, generic functions 12:16:17 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:16:20 -!- Eldariof28-ru [~CLD@188.168.241.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:16:58 makaa, implementations like chicken scheme have "low-level" macros 12:17:14 scheme already has multiple values, dynamic scoping is in an SRFI 12:17:37 Quadrescence great, and what if I want to use some other implementation? 12:17:47 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 12:17:56 great, what if I want to use SB-EXT portably? 12:18:09 great, what if I want to do sockets, multithreading,  portably in CL? 12:18:28 I never claimed or implied things in sb-ext are part of CL, have I? 12:18:50 makaa, most implementations of scheme have a define-macro. There exists a portable implementation of the CLOS stuff. SRFIs are generally implemented. 12:19:02 and sockets and multithreading (or anything else really) portably in CL is FAR more fessible than doing them portably in scheme 12:19:46 yes, it is hard to port to 1000 scheme implementations. But if you want to port to the top 5, then you'll more likely than not be okay. 12:20:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:21:38 does it exist? a portable scheme wrapper around threads like bordeaux-threads 12:22:32 http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-18/srfi-18.html 12:23:00 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.31.202.162] has joined #lisp 12:23:21 kennyd, ^ 12:23:26 ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has joined #lisp 12:25:17 -!- seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:29 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:28:28 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:29:58 Quadrescence: re call/cc, if you only want to suspend LOOP forms, you can probably just hack the expander (: 12:30:39 that'd be even nicer than named lets! 12:30:54 pkhuong, I wouldn't even do that and just have a closure 12:32:25 (which would be ugly) 12:32:43 mathrick [~mathrick@stud-129.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 12:32:45 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 12:34:46 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:04 pkhuong, oh and thanks for that paper earlier. i've only skimmed it so far though 12:36:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-169-79.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:35 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:37:05 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host71.186-109-102.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:37:10 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has joined #lisp 12:37:26 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:37:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-113.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:24 No problem, it seemed really interesting, and I'd be happy to see it land in CL ;) 12:41:05 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:42:48 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has quit [Ping 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usocket maintainers 14:04:10 thats what i get with (ql:quickload "snmp")? i tried to use it but without success 14:04:27 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:40 bit more specifcs? :-) 14:05:01 balle: It is used in commercial products and is actively maintained. What trouble did you have? 14:05:34 SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has joined #lisp 14:05:42 i think it really is called cl-net-snmp, but i don't know what its quicklisp name is (http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-net-snmp/snmp.html) 14:06:22 if i execute the example (snmp:with-open-session (s "some-host" :version 1 :community "public") (snmp:snmp-walk s "system")) 14:06:32 it just blocks forever and returns nothing 14:06:43 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:10 same command on shell "snmpwalk -Os -v1 -c public some-host system" returns results immediately 14:07:12 hindmost|3 [~kvirc@laurencepithie.plus.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:23 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:08:44 balle: What implementation? 14:08:59 Xach, what i get with (ql:quickload "snmp") 14:10:06 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:16 I mean what implementation of Common Lisp? 14:12:31 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-155-113.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:14:12 -!- am0c [~am0c@182.221.131.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:14:32 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:35 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 14:15:29 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:36 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:54 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:00 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:21:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:26:00 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:27:17 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-250.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:27:35 I am trying to get GNU CL working (on windows @ work) on Emacs. I followed these instructions http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~novak/gclwin.html and I get a "Searching for program: no such file or directory, lisp" error. Any tips? 14:28:06 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.44] has joined #lisp 14:28:31 use some other CL implementation 14:28:35 xificurC: is there any particular reason why you want to use gcl? 14:28:55 xificurC: if not, use http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-windows/ as a cheat sheet 14:29:06 I (maybe naively) thought its the only one on win 14:29:10 xificurC GNU CL is unmaintained. you are better of using ccl or sbcl (I found that ccl works nice on windows) 14:29:35 ikarus- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 14:30:39 oi I actually remember doing this a while ago on another machine 14:30:47 I must be getting senile, thanks! 14:30:56 Xach, oh its sbcl 14:31:53 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:34:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:14 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:37:21 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:37:39 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 14:37:39 samm [~samm@212.91.105.32] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 -!- Fare changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.13, SBCL 1.1.5, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7, ASDF 2.32 14:40:58 Guest99158 [~ilisp@183.141.47.81] has joined #lisp 14:41:46 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:14 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44:00 -!- Guest99158 [~ilisp@183.141.47.81] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:02 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:06 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:44:21 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.44] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:44:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:46:12 -!- ck_ [~ck@dslb-188-107-040-087.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:40 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:49:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:50:09 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.44] has joined #lisp 14:51:50 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 14:52:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:54:39 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:02 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f7168bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:30 any advice for creating a cl commandline application without reimplementing various routines just to get terminal output? 14:57:33 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:44 alama: what do you need exactly ? 14:57:48 seems like i want some kind of MVC or publish-subscribe 14:58:12 terminal output? 14:58:47 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-250.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:09 i'm creating a commandline application in cl; i've got a pile of routines that work just fine, but if i want good terminal output, it seems i need to reimplement those routines so that they periodically print their state to the terminal 14:59:34 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-250.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:59:39 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nxtgrjotllhhkvnr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:53 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:03 common lisp has a built in publish called SIGNAL 15:00:22 ah, gp 15:00:40 alama: I still don't understand what worries you 15:01:20 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:33 well, presumably i'd need to change my existing routines to take an additional parameter as input, e.g., an output stream, or even a list of streams; ouput would sent there 15:01:53 alama: you tried broadcast streams? 15:01:57 or the new argument would be some kind of controller that periodically receives updates on the state of the algorirthm as it grinds through a bunch of data 15:02:13 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:13 should I worry about latency if I introduce one extra thread to receive and publish messages? (lacking a good portable way to wait on both a socket and an interthread message channel, I'll be having a thread be a message hub) 15:02:59 fe[nl]ix, does iolib have an inter-thread message-passing facility that can be included in the event loop? 15:03:01 or, as I just said, just signal periodically with some state packed in the condition. if the condition isn't handled, signal just returns NIL. Interested parties can handle the condition to get the state and then resume the computation. 15:03:02 fe[nl]ix: the worry is that i would violate DRY to have a "pure" implementation of my algorithm, and then a second that is nearly identicaly but which nicely produces terminal output 15:03:11 Fare: If you used a pipe(2) as an interthread message channel, or the signal therefore, would you have a portable way to wait on both? 15:03:27 mal_: that sounds like a nice idea; thanks 15:03:54 SIGNAL isn't exactly cheap, you know... 15:03:56 Fare: no, if you want that you must build it yourself 15:04:19 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:38 Fare: as you said, using the pipe() trick gets the job done 15:04:38 nyef: right, that's one worry. i think in my case that's not such a big deal, though -- the computation is heavy and slow enough that even a 1 second overhead to deal with a signal isn't really an obstacle 15:04:47 nyef: true in most implementations I suppose. There's no reason a SSC couldn't elide most of the work. 15:05:10 arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-206-76-90-132.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:05:17 -!- antgreen_ [~green@64.56.247.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:05:31 nyef: pipe is problematic for many-to-one messaging, because the atomicity guarantees are not clear. Or you could have one pipe per pair of threads, but that's a pain. 15:06:13 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:18 Fare: If you don't need to signal to the many in the same fashion... But yeah. 15:06:19 Fare: pipe writes <= 4k are atomic 15:06:41 is that a posix guarantee? 15:06:44 no, Linux 15:06:44 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:07:28 "POSIX.1-2001 requires PIPE_BUF to be at least 512 bytes" 15:07:51 if you're talking about pipes in general, then writing a single byte should be atomic in any case 15:07:55 You only need a single byte, though, surely? 15:08:15 I shudder to think of the pipe implementation that can't handle an octet atomically. (-: 15:08:42 PIPE_BUF is only the amount of data that can be written before write() blocks 15:10:06 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:33 well, a single byte would be enough if the actual data goes through another side-channel, which involves more locking and stuff. 15:10:40 hi segv- 15:11:06 or I could send messages through a unix socket... is it portable to select on such? 15:11:06 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:18 Sure, but lock the bus for a CMPXCHG or something, not a full-blown mutex. 15:11:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:48 Yes, you can select on a named pipe... CLX does so, for example, when talking to a local server. 15:12:13 -!- ikarus- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 15:12:17 Fare: yes 15:12:35 now... do I want to pull iolib into qres yet... that is the question 15:12:57 go for it 15:13:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:13:08 ASau [~user@46.115.125.174] has joined #lisp 15:14:07 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.224.76] has joined #lisp 15:14:44 that's something I'd like to do this year... just not sure right now is the best moment. 15:15:13 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-137-145-100.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:14 I'm here if you need help 15:15:52 Fare: I'm not sure that's going to be all that useful, considering that most of the blocking operations are tied up in oracle's libs 15:16:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:24 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:00 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:19:22 well, oracle is hopefully going soon 15:19:35 and this happens in a separate thread for now 15:19:40 replaced by what ? 15:19:41 -!- rtoyg_ [~rtoyg@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19:52 some nosql backend 15:20:44 gotta take advantage of those googly things 15:21:04 good point 15:21:22 ikarus- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 15:22:23 kiuma [~kiuma@proxykno.emea.fedex.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:29 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:23:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:23:47 -!- ikarus- [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 15:25:23 Fare: v2.32 helped to find the dependency circle, thank you! 15:29:29 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 15:29:50 -!- SanderM [~quassel@2001:610:180:1:e2cb:4eff:fe41:41d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:28 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:32:58 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.44] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:33:43 thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.44] has joined #lisp 15:34:32 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:35:50 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.224.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:38:52 lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.38] has joined #lisp 15:39:26 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 15:40:52 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:12 Postgresql protocol error: Unexpected message received: D 15:43:20 anyone ever seen that with postmodern? 15:45:01 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:45:11 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:02 kennyd: gnu cl is not unmaintained 15:46:25 or rather, gcl is not unmaintained, neither is gnu clisp. 15:47:07 H4ns: I might have, but if I have it was when I was doing something fairly stupid involving PostGIS datatypes. 15:47:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:47:18 CrLF0710 [6fa14dd5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.161.77.213] has joined #lisp 15:47:28 nyef: hm. this is a pretty simple query. 15:48:48 zorkmoid: GNU clisp is maintained. 15:48:56 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:48:57 Dunno then. 15:48:58 Oh, ok. 15:49:09 *Xach* misread 15:49:14 pkkm [~pawel@eqb194.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:49:39 Xach: right, and gcl is also maintained (though no offical release has been done since 2005 or something, but bruno still works on it in cvs) 15:50:05 Is CMUCL still maintained? 15:50:09 nyef: yes 15:50:36 nyef: last release was october, 20d ... i use it :-) 15:50:40 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.50.16] has joined #lisp 15:51:44 camm commited something on 2013-02-20 16:41:46 +0100 in gcl 15:52:04 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:23 esr [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/esr] has joined #lisp 15:52:39 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.172.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:13 Fare: there's nothing yet in ASDF3 which tries to build an executable by starting a fresh (empty) image and loading a monofasl into it, then dumping, is there? 15:53:34 it looks like the ingredients start to be there, but does program-op actually support that yet? 15:53:44 or does it just support dumping of the currently running image? 15:54:26 Thra11_ [~thrall@56.51.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:40 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:55:24 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-250.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:55:24 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.202.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:56:36 Thra11 [~thrall@225.31.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:47 SIGNAL is surely cheaper than any other way you would implement similar a mechanism. 15:57:59 -!- arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-206-76-90-132.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:35 funcalling a special is surely cheaper than any way CL:SIGNAL could be implemented. 15:59:20 Why would SIGNAL be more expensive than that? 15:59:36 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@56.51.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:35 ogamita: because type tests and iterating through the handlers to find the first that matches. 16:01:28 gendl: program-op will do that if everything is already compiled 16:02:12 Fare: so it uses run-program to start fresh image and pass it the list of monofasls ? 16:02:49 so it should work like this: 16:03:08 (asdf:operate 'asdf/bundle:monolithic-fasl-op :genworks-gdl) 16:03:11 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:25 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:03:47 (asdf:operate 'asdf/bundle:program-op :genworks-gdl) 16:04:18 in theory that would start a fresh image, load the genworks-gdl--all-systems., then do the dump? 16:06:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@proxykno.emea.fedex.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:44 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:06:59 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:02 gendl, no, currently it just loads into current image 16:07:19 asdf so far has no idea of "start a fresh image" -- for that you want xcvb 16:07:51 well, "start a fresh image" can map into so many different things on different platforms 16:07:55 xcvb hasn't been updated in a while and is in a broken state, though 16:08:02 exactly 16:08:08 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.127.74] has joined #lisp 16:08:14 that's where lisp-invocation.asd comes into play 16:08:17 (part of xcvb) 16:08:28 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:28 If I want a command to load a bunch of stuff into a clean image and then dump a new core or executable, said command has a .sh extension. 16:08:29 is xcvb is slated to be a replacement for asdf eventually? or a layer on top of it? 16:08:40 yes 16:09:01 I started working on xcvb before I started maintaining asdf. See where I'm at. :-/ 16:09:34 ok so xcvb is on hold until ASDF3 is completely stabilized, 16:09:35 the public demands legacy compatibility 16:09:51 yes, though asdf3 looks like it's mostly stable now. 16:10:03 then some day you take all the lessons learned and "best of" from ASDF and get it into xcvb 16:10:18 by "you" i mean "you or somebody" 16:10:32 yes 16:10:42 there has already been a lot of movement from xcvb to asdf, actually 16:11:09 half the asdf-driver (now uiop) comes from xcvb-driver. 16:11:46 the recent complete rewrite of the asdf traversal algorithm was informed by xcvb and poiu. 16:12:13 the new "plan" object is an xcvb-ism. 16:12:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:44 correct reporting of circular dependencies is also something I got from xcvb 16:13:10 bitonic [~user@dyn1221-250.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:13:51 a good model of dependencies is also something from xcvb -- also in the way it backward-compatibly fits the old asdf model, I owe most to antifuchs' poiu. 16:14:17 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:14:37 I kept simplifying asdf, then simplifying poiu accordingly, and then finding -- oh I'm missing a piece, then adding it, then realizing "oh, that's why poiu had this ugly thing with a weird name". 16:15:16 Knowing it might attract flames, I have to say it: CLOS is annoying the hell out of me. Has anyone implemented an alternative object system with better information hiding, closer to a Python- or Ruby-like model? 16:15:18 I blame antifuchs for not documenting his findings. 16:15:37 aw, the code is the documentation <-; 16:15:37 information hiding with a python or ruby model? hahahahaha. 16:15:46 esr: yes, probably. 16:15:52 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:55 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f7168bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:16:03 esr: maybe garnet? 16:16:03 esr: the python model is "name your attributes with an underscore". You can do that in CLOS too. :) 16:16:32 "garnet" looks like keyword I can search, thanks. 16:16:52 ... Information hiding? What's the matter with using the functionality available in CL for that? 16:17:39 esr: garnet is not maintained anymore. 16:17:43 probably one of laziness, hubris or the other one 16:17:47 I don't like the fact that I have to declare generics for every class method lest the compiler spew warnings at me. 16:17:55 You have a package, which defines a symbol namespace. Export the things that you want to have public, don't export the bits that you want to hide. Done. 16:18:13 I always thought that CLOS was pretty good about that, anyway. Don't define accessors and you have to use slot-value 16:18:35 esr: yes, that's a part of CLOS that doesn't play well with the rest of CL style. But you can disable the warnings, too 16:18:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:18:56 Fare: That might be simplest. 16:18:57 And there's the :METHOD option for DEFGENERIC. 16:19:23 esr: on asdf3, you can include sb-ext:implicit-generic-function-warning in your *uninteresting-compiler-conditions* 16:19:27 well, the convention i've seen in CL for information hiding is %foo :) 16:19:33 It helps to understand that CLOS is generic-function-centric, not class-centric. 16:19:43 nyef: I resent having to write defgenerics - it seems like needless csermony. 16:19:43 *easye* likes nyef's suggestion. Keeps things together. 16:19:45 nyef: which is not supported by GCL, but let's declare GCL unsupported. 16:20:21 esr: embrace CLOS. It's closer to The Right Thing than any of the other object systems you mentioned. 16:20:24 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:20:25 esr: most of the time, it is needless ceremony indeed. Sometimes it contains crucial information (regarding compulsory &key arguments) 16:20:27 clhs defgeneric 16:20:27 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defgen.htm 16:20:53 esr: in my interface-passing style, I make an interesting use of them to gather compile-time information 16:21:20 Xach: I understand that, but I don't want to use it that way. It might help you to know that I'm translating a large Python program to Lisp, hoping for better performance from compilation. 16:21:29 I see :METHOD in the spec. If Golden Common Lisp, or whatever is using its acronym, doesn't support it then it's not supporting CL. 16:21:32 esr: if you like ML-style parametric polymorphism and CLOS, try the lisp-interface-library -- I don't know if that solves your "information hiding" problems, though. 16:21:43 GCL supports :method 16:21:49 esr: use a macro 16:22:00 esr: tried this? http://common-lisp.net/project/clpython/ 16:22:00 my opinion has always been that "information hiding" is a misstatement of the problem. The real problem is (lack of) abstraction power. 16:22:12 Or was Fare saying that GCL didn't support packages? (-: 16:22:18 zorkmoid: Yes. that possibility had occurred to me. 16:22:25 and parametric polymorphism is a good way to abstract over structure. 16:23:08 zorkmoid, not gcl 2.6.7 -- and the number of people who've been able to compile anything more recent in the last decade fits in the fingers of one (or at most two) hands. 16:23:19 -!- thomas_yzj [~user@175.0.169.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:23:27 I like the rest of what I'm seeing in CL, but not CLOS. Yes, yes, I get the theory...but it's *ugly*. 16:23:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:51 Fingers of one hand means at most 31 people, two hands gets you to 1023, surely? 16:23:53 CLOS is ugly, like a lot of CL, but once you've tasted the power, it's hard to settle for anything less. 16:24:12 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:24:25 I imagine copying the structure of a python program means that you won't necessarily taste the power, though 16:24:32 CLOS is not at all ugly 16:24:38 Python is much prettier, it has kind have spoiled me that way. 16:24:44 CLOS works very well as a way to design extensible protocols of generic functions that can be implemented, to some degree automatically, with class definitions. 16:25:00 Fare: well, 2.6.7 is old, the recommended is using cvs. 16:25:03 AMOP's bits on the protocols of CLOS are helpful in understanding protocol design. 16:25:06 Fare: which is activley develoepd. 16:25:35 Mmm. Yesterday I implemented a class with something like five superclasses, no direct slots, and a single method specialized on it. 16:25:36 Xach: Yes, I believe that. But for what I'm doing now it's a capability I don't need. 16:25:40 zorkmoid: I haven't been able to compile it in years. I'm told I'd have more luck by installing an old version of libgmp 16:25:59 esr: what are you trying to do? 16:26:00 Fare: i see, i use it since it is one of the few cl's that has infinite precision on floats 16:26:06 esr: It's not just a capability on the side of a class-centric system. It's the way it works, and class-centrism isn't. 16:26:22 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:29 Fare: Translate a large, OO-centric Python program into CL. 16:26:33 oh. 16:26:52 I've seen some people implement Java-style object systems on top of CLOS. 16:27:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:27:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:27:12 the same tricks (and/or code) could work for python, too 16:27:20 -!- samm [~samm@212.91.105.32] has quit [Quit: samm] 16:27:28 Surely it wouldn't be overly difficult to implement a Python-style object system for CL? 16:27:38 Fare: have you tried compiling with --disable-dynsysgmp? 16:27:47 I wonder to what degree clpython does that. 16:28:02 (wasn't there something about it at this or the previous ILC?) 16:28:13 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@225.31.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:28:20 zorkmoid, nope. The build is not very well documented. 16:28:35 Fare: hm? ./configure --help 16:29:01 zorkmoid, do you have a working configure/build script for me to use? 16:29:04 You might have heard of it: reposurgeon. The architecture works very well but it runs like a pig on very large repos. I've started experimentally translating it to CL to find out if real compilation helps. I think it will - the expensive parts are rather compute-bound. 16:29:12 just built gcl from cvs on a new box ... ./configure --disable-dynsysgmp --enable-static 16:29:28 esr: can't you compile pythong? 16:29:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:29:42 when is it appropriate to call it reposturgeon? 16:29:50 (you use that name in your posts, sometimes) 16:29:52 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 16:30:17 (does pypy help make it faster?) 16:30:23 (speaking of compiling python) 16:30:56 Lua(JIT)'s object system might be a better fit. 16:31:10 zorkmoid: I've experimented with cython but it's not good for optimizing away much but control structure - it's designed for scientific programming where the data types are mostly fixed extent. 16:31:11 zorkmoid, maybe these should be made the default? 16:31:36 Fare: i don't know, not well versed with how compilation works in gcl 16:32:00 Fare: reposurgeon is rge program, reposturgeon is the project's mascot. 16:32:34 zorkmoid, what is the cvs command to check it out? 16:32:39 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:32:49 Fare: cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.savannah.gnu.org:/sources/gcl co gcl 16:32:58 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f7168bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:05 zorkmoid, thanks -- the website doesn't make that obvious, either 16:33:17 Fare: no, lots to be wanting there.. 16:33:30 lots of people seem to think gcl is unmaintained as well 16:33:57 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 16:34:04 Heh, being in cvs doesn't do much for that image either. 16:34:04 zorkmoid, considering I get 0 responses when I ask maintainers for help and/or for support regarding asdf, that's unsurprising. 16:34:19 Fare: whom are you asking? 16:34:50 zorkmoid, the gcl-devel mailing-list. 16:34:58 and/or camm 16:35:09 isn't gcl basically just kept alive because maxima depends on it? 16:35:20 maxima doesn't depend on it anymore, iiuc 16:35:29 but some schools somewhere still teach using it 16:35:35 Fare: mm.. camm has been responsive to me 16:35:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:37 H4ns: (and floating point) 16:36:48 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ouxaeklbdlvrplys] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:37:17 zorkmoid: what do you mean? 16:37:24 H4ns: infinite floating point 16:37:38 zorkmoid: ah, ok. that makes some sense. 16:37:46 oh, so the reposturgeon is a fish. I thought it would be a zombie Theodore Sturgeon. 16:37:56 infinite unbounded or arbitrary? 16:38:00 if i could get infinite floats in cmucl i would be very very very very happy 16:38:08 zorkmoid: but it is fair to say that gcl is a special-purpose implementation that is not well supported for general common lisp development. 16:38:32 I wonder what its cl-test-grid output would look like. 16:38:35 Aside from a sea of blood 16:38:50 H4ns: sure 16:39:33 what is cl-test-grid? 16:39:54 If arbitrary, wouldn't it be simpler to wrap mpfr on any other implementation? 16:39:59 zorkmoid: a system for testing quicklisp libraries on different implementations and differential reports between implementation versions. 16:40:09 Xach: cool 16:42:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:42:35 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:43 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 16:43:56 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:56 -!- zulu_inuoe [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:45:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:45:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:27 Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.238.108] has joined #lisp 16:47:09 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:26 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.173.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:49:13 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 16:51:06 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:25 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:52:48 meyersh [~meyersh@198.102.147.253] has joined #lisp 16:54:10 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:36 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.173.25] has joined #lisp 16:58:16 Any SBCL hackers on? I've discovered a repeatable way to reboot (kernel panic) my Mac OS X 10.8.2 with make-thread (sbcl 1.1.4 and 1.1.5) 16:58:24 well, before cl-test-grid would run on gcl, asdf would have to support gcl... 16:58:32 w 16:58:34 enupten [~neptune@c-24-18-243-195.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:38 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f7168bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:58:44 (Wrong window. Apologies.) 16:58:49 -!- enupten [~neptune@c-24-18-243-195.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:59:10 -!- ed_g [~quassel@67-5-181-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:14 ed_g_ [~quassel@67-5-181-3.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:50 ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has joined #lisp 17:00:00 meyersh: there's #sbcl 17:00:37 meyersh: That sounds to me more like an OSX issue than an SBCL issue. 17:00:47 -!- ed_g_ [~quassel@67-5-181-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:10 But, yeah, there's #sbcl and there's the sbcl-devel mailing list, the bug tracker, and so on. 17:01:27 Fare: http://gendl.blogspot.com/2013/03/saving-images-with-asdf3.html 17:01:48 nyef: I totally agree that it's probably Apple. :) 17:02:00 i think it needs more hyperlinks (and probably more cowbell). 17:03:13 I'll bounce it off #sbcl, that's a good idea. 17:03:20 gendl, thanks a lot! 17:03:34 if you want an image produced by asdf, there's program-op 17:03:52 -!- meyersh [~meyersh@198.102.147.253] has left #lisp 17:04:03 i'll experiment with that and mention it. 17:04:21 -!- hyoung [~sabayonus@116.24.102.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:23 thanks even more! :) 17:04:37 so you would start a fresh image after compiling everything, 17:04:38 asdf3 is vastly underdocumented. 17:04:45 then run program-op, right? 17:05:12 then the newly dumped image is going to be about as clean as could be. It would still have asdf in it though, right? 17:05:15 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:16 that's a way... or just run program-op in the current image, if you trust your implementation enough. 17:05:30 yes, asdf is always going to be there. 17:05:48 actually, even xcvb is going to include asdf (or at least uiop) in everything. 17:06:04 asdf will be there, unless you start a fresh image and just load the monofasl(s) only. 17:06:11 without use of asdf utilities to do so 17:06:24 yup... but then your monofasl better not depend on anything in asdf. 17:06:47 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:57 yep of course. 17:07:13 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 17:07:22 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:35 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:08:52 zorkmoid, make: *** No rule to make target `/usr/lib/libbfd.a', needed by `copy_bfd'. Stop. 17:09:04 zorkmoid, do I need a special configure flag for bfd, too? 17:09:35 *Fare* apt-get install binutils-dev 17:10:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:12:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:13:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:52 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:14:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:15:01 zorkmoid, it fails eventually with /usr/bin/ld: Warning: alignment 8 of symbol `debug' in ./libpre_gcl.a(main.o) is smaller than 16 in ./libpre_gcl.a(gbc.o) 17:16:14 oh, that was just a warning. There are undefined function errors. funlink.c:(.text+0x15d): undefined reference to `xdrstdio_create' 17:16:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:35 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:22:10 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:23 ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has joined #lisp 17:28:53 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-zaidlcfbirwhchix] has joined #lisp 17:30:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:31:23 francogrex [~user@109.134.205.194] has joined #lisp 17:31:45 all, this is a reproducible example in sbcl: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135900 17:32:17 an example of what? 17:32:22 my aim is to get 0 bytes consed in the functions call-do and LR. How is that possible by optimizing the code? 17:33:13 stassats: some snippet to do some epidemiological calculations 17:33:34 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:40 and speed it up as well ;) 17:33:55 the more speed in running the better 17:34:36 -!- CrLF0710 [6fa14dd5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.111.161.77.213] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:34:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:07 Fare: http://gendl.blogspot.com/ --- when you have a chance, please feel free to comment on there if I am giving any inaccuracies 17:36:22 -!- plantseeker [~Plantseek@77.240.63.97] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:36:22 just prevent double floats from being boxed 17:37:04 why is *coll* a list and not a specialized array? 17:37:05 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:08 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:40 -!- esr [~chatzilla@wesnoth/developer/esr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:50 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.35] has joined #lisp 17:40:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:01 maybe you could avoid all those coercions by doing sum 1.0d0 instead of count 1 17:41:02 looks like I can't compile gcl because of https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eglibc/+bug/1130452 17:41:16 stassats: it could be an array *coll* i can change it 17:41:33 bike ok 17:41:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:41:55 how can I practically avoid boxing doubles? 17:42:04 inline, type declarations 17:42:12 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:42:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:42:37 instead of (the double-float (log (1- tmp1))) => (log (the (double-float (0d0)) (- 1 tmp1))) 17:42:43 gendl, for program-op to do everything you want, you may have to define all the relevant variables in asdf/image to initialize your image. 17:42:50 or even better, declare (double-float (1d0)) tmp1 17:43:12 or rather (double-float 0d0 (1d0)) 17:43:16 e.g. asdf/image:*image-entry-point* 17:43:24 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.137.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:36 though starting with asdf 2.32, the canonical name is uiop/image:*image-entry-point* 17:43:37 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:46 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 17:45:39 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-zaidlcfbirwhchix] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:47:55 -!- rose__ [~rose@113.14.56.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:05 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:53 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.209] has joined #lisp 17:51:37 but consing still an issue 17:52:46 Thra11_ [~thrall@222.114.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:03 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:53:46 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:20 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.238.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:54:39 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:50 Fare: let's put that in as a comment. Is the blog page open for comments? 17:58:22 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@oosteinde.castasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:59:20 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.205.194] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:59:48 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:00:52 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1221-250.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:01:42 -!- pkkm [~pawel@eqb194.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:02:11 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:18 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:08 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:35 -!- hindmost|3 [~kvirc@laurencepithie.plus.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:05:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:08:18 -!- jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 18:08:52 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f7168bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:40 -!- alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f7168bd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:11:52 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:52 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 18:14:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:50 pkkm [~pawel@acwj35.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:19:30 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.111.190] has joined #lisp 18:22:38 k0001 [~k0001@host71.186-109-102.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:22:45 Is there a known problem with cffi libraries having the same identifier as cl packages? I'm seeing some weird behavior 18:23:21 libraries? 18:23:33 you mean things wrapped with cffi, or cffi itself? 18:24:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:55 ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has joined #lisp 18:25:37 Libraries defined via cffi:define-foreign-library 18:25:52 sec. I'll paste up the issue I'm having 18:26:43 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:27:46 urw [~urw@150.134.234.30] has joined #lisp 18:27:57 -!- urw [~urw@150.134.234.30] has left #lisp 18:32:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:35:17 antgreen [~green@64.56.247.247] has joined #lisp 18:36:28 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:36:48 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/135901 18:40:13 I'm on SBCL 1.1.4 x86, on Windows 7 64-bit 18:40:50 zulu_inuoe_: don't use keyworks to name foreign libraries or foreign types 18:40:51 Never had issues with cffi before, use it practically every day. This is the first time I notice this behavior 18:41:18 zulu_inuoe_: shouldn't that be cl:t? 18:41:29 and second, an empty :use clause will not import CL symbols 18:41:31 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-016-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:41:36 so, what adeht says 18:41:39 adeht: Yes sorry. 18:42:12 Notice I had cl: elsewhere. Missed in there. 18:42:22 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:43:34 zulu_inuoe_: I'm afraid SBCL isn't clever enough to notice that, however. 18:43:41 fe[nl]ix: While that may be the case, this is still very bizzare behavior 18:44:03 zulu_inuoe_: it's not 18:44:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:44:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:05 fe[nl]ix: I don't know how to rationalize it giving me back a foreign library object 18:46:35 define-foreign-library takes a sequence of clauses 18:47:27 the car of each clause is a symbol looked up in *features* 18:47:36 the only exception is for cl:t 18:47:59 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:12 so if your pack::t is not cl:t, it most probably doesn't exist in *features*, and define-foreign-library returns a no-op library 18:48:56 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:48:59 fe[nl]ix: Oh! Okay! I'm sorry you're completely right. Thank you very much. 18:49:12 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:49:24 fe[nl]ix: I thought the cl:t was only messed up on my paste, not my actual source. 18:49:28 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.80.209] has left #lisp 18:50:16 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:50:27 Thanks guys 18:51:31 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 18:54:12 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has joined #lisp 18:54:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.19] has quit [Changing host] 18:54:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:55:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:34 Fare: nothing is maintained anymore, and you wouldn't want to use something that's maintained, ie. in constant flux. 18:57:31 Otherwise, the object system used in Garnet is KR, and it has an ASDF system! http://www.cliki.net/KR 18:57:48 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.247.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:58:20 And finally, implementing the Smalltalk object system in lisp is the affair of an afternoon. 18:59:16 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:00:49 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:01:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:02:35 pjb: that's what stable / release branches are for... and they too need to be maintained 19:03:14 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:03:30 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-016-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:05:12 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:06:56 sdemarre [~serge@125.162-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:07:48 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 19:09:28 antgreen [~green@64.56.247.247] has joined #lisp 19:10:22 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.111.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:59 Fare: ok, so instead of saying it's not maintained, it would be more precise to say that a stable release is available. 19:11:54 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host71.186-109-102.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:13:31 k0001 [~k0001@host48.190-137-35.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@stud-129.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:20 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:19:00 stable != not changing. stable = adapting to external changes to maintain a fixed semantics 19:19:06 not changing == DEAD 19:19:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:21:55 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:21:58 in which we learn that software is more like sharks than bonsai. 19:22:24 plan9 [~stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:35 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:23:00 pkhuong: hai 19:23:52 *drewc* says hi and yes at the same time, because of bonsai being a different language more than anything else 19:25:13 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:13 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 19:26:26 -!- ianmcorvidae is now known as mian 19:26:29 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host48.190-137-35.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:33 -!- mian is now known as ianmcorvidae 19:27:03 drmeister 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quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 20:06:55 Hunh. First time I've screwed up the precedence order in a class definition. 20:07:06 Took a little bit to figure out what was going wrong. (-: 20:07:36 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:07:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:09:20 abeaumont [~abeaumont@125.210.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:09:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:12:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:14:49 nyef: was it methods that fired in the wrong order, or simply wrong, that caught you? 20:15:01 casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:59 Wrong method selected. 20:16:01 *drewc* has really screwed that up in a live system and it took 4 months to figure out what he did because it only happened once in a blue moon. 20:16:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:41 So SHEET-DIRECT-MIRROR on my graft returned NIL (correct for a SHEET) rather than the contents of the MIRROR slot (correct for MIRRORED-SHEET-MIXIN). 20:17:12 Punt SHEET to the back of the superclass list, redefine, and my little sample program works again with the new changes. 20:18:31 Also found a bug in my implementation of REALIZE-MIRROR :AROUND on MIRRORED-SHEET-MIXIN. It shouldn't CALL-NEXT-METHOD if the sheet is already mirrored. 20:19:25 yeah, makes sense. I actually had/have to deal with similar things trying to port static type stuff to classes (as interfaces for IPS) ... trying to translate such things is, well, a sure-fire way to mess of the order of classes. 20:20:40 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.14, SBCL 1.1.5, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7, ASDF 2.32 20:21:04 So many hunchentoots! 20:21:07 sdemarre [~serge@125.162-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:21:32 yeah. releasing is so much fun nowadays. i need to make up for the years without a proper release 20:22:20 I should have my little sample using a mirrored-sheet-mixin based class to create the visible window soon (not later than this weekend), and then it's probably time to try and figure out the event-handling mess. 20:23:23 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:23:36 H4ns: Does hunchentoot still discard MIME type information for parts that don't have filenames? 20:24:18 nyef: i don't usually fix bugs that i don't encounter myself and that do not get reported by someone. consider reporting the bugs that you find. 20:24:42 We're running 1.1.1 here, and patch PARSE-RFC2388-FORM-DATA to only discard MIME type info for "text/" types, and only when there is no filename. 20:24:49 1.1.1 hahaha 20:25:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:25:21 We're also running a quicklisp dist that's something like 18 months old. 20:25:24 but in any case, please pretty please write a bug report. https://github.com/edicl/hunchentoot/issues?direction=desc&sort=created&state=open 20:26:01 -!- solvip [~solvip@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:27:37 H4ns: Added to my task list, conditional on the problem still existing in the latest version whenever I get around to it. 20:27:57 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:49 nyef: if it is easy to reproduce (it sounded like it), you can just report it with reproduction instructions. 20:30:00 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:23 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 20:31:20 Yeah, it's easy to reproduce. Send something with a MIME type of, say, "image/jpeg", but no filename, and then try to recover the MIME type. 20:33:26 H4ns: good timing. I need exactly that change! 20:33:33 H4ns: that's why i complained about the docs earlier. 20:33:37 -!- androcles [~Jeff@sporkula.ss.uci.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:40 I wish I knew there was money in it. 20:34:31 francogrex [~user@109.134.205.194] has joined #lisp 20:35:00 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:35:16 messages? 20:37:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-148.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:28 pankajm [~user@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 20:40:31 -!- pankajm [~user@202.3.77.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:07 And now it's time I left to go catch my train. 20:41:15 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'afternoon all.] 20:43:14 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yllweqlathpasblk] has joined #lisp 20:44:52 I want to understand how consing is done. 20:45:07 see this code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135900 in the function call-do 20:45:51 there is this: (resamp background-00 (/ lenobstot (coerce lenbacktot 'double-float)) lenbacktot) and indication that it is consing, but if you look at the resamp function, it does not cons anything! 20:46:05 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:31 -!- lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:29 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:47:33 Xach: will the next QL snapshot contain ABCL support? 20:48:26 ehu: what about the current snapshot doesn't support ABCL? 20:48:46 gendl: did you try? 20:48:56 ah. 20:49:14 ehu: yes, i got quicklisp-slime-helper and quicklisp working with ABCL within a few minutes. 20:49:22 i think I started on my Mac with: 20:49:26 sudo port install abcl 20:49:28 francogrex: (/ lenobstot (coerce lenbacktot 'double-float)) conses 20:49:38 sorry, I should have said: will the next QL snapshot contain closer-mop's abcl support? 20:49:40 <|3b|> francogrex: if you are passing things that aren't double-float to call-do, you should coerce outside the loop 20:49:48 francogrex: why do you compute this ratio on each iteration? 20:49:50 gendl: that's great news! 20:49:56 gendl: do you use abcl? 20:50:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:50:42 ehu: not in production yet, I ported our core system to it, up to :gdl-geom-base works and passes basic tests. 20:50:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:51 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 20:51:26 ehu: the full system depends on portableallegroserve, that is still limiting us to Allegro, LispWorks, SBCL, and CCL for the full web UI to work. 20:51:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:51:39 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:46 portable allegro serve doesn't run on abcl? 20:51:56 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.43.230] has joined #lisp 20:51:56 is that because hunchentoot may run poorly on abcl? 20:52:21 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-168-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:32 ehu: Snapshot of what? 20:52:51 ehu: portableallegroserve not yet. Rudi Schlatte expressed some interest in trying to make it work, if someone else doesn't get to it first. 20:52:56 Xach: QL dist version. 20:52:58 stassats: I didn't know. How to know what code conses and what doesn't is there a trick or it's based on experience? 20:53:21 ehu: I don't expect any change in ABCL support in quicklisp...does something need to change? 20:53:23 gendl: I think easye probably has a similar interest. 20:53:24 sbcl tells you that 20:53:31 ehu: it would be an opportunity to factor out some redundant libraries which portableaserve and acl-compat are currently carrying (to quote Rudi: "in these glorious Quicklisp days") 20:53:34 but having experience never hurt anybody yet 20:53:37 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:42 ehu: That is, it's worked fine from day one and I didn't know things were otherwise 20:54:17 Xach: there's a file missing from Closer-MOP which makes that we still can't show off our improved MOP :-/ 20:54:58 ehu: I know nothing of such Costanzian intrigues 20:55:08 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-152-129.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 20:55:28 ehu: Is it fixed in closer-mop's darcs? 20:55:41 I think it is. Do you release from darcs? 20:55:42 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@222.114.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:55:56 Yes, for that one. 20:57:03 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:57:32 ok. then it should be alright starting next month. 20:57:55 I hope to make a dist update in a few days, on Sunday. 20:59:30 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:36 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:15 Xach: great! 21:02:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:17 how do you find which versions are current? 21:04:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:04:09 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:14 Who find? 21:04:30 Xach: you. Sorry. 21:04:37 Xach: will it include uiop 2.32? 21:04:48 (and I presume asdf 2.26) 21:04:54 Like, you make a dist update with certain versions. How do you figure out which versions to include 21:04:55 H4ns: redline6561 wants me to add cl-github-v3. Does that bother you? 21:04:59 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:05:06 Fare: What is uiop? 21:05:14 or is it just manual footwork? 21:05:18 Xach: not at all. does he want his version or mine? 21:05:19 new name of asdf-driver (old name still available as alias) 21:05:23 dlowe: I fetch everything and if it all builds, those are the versions. 21:05:34 but the name of the tarball has changed 21:05:35 Fare: Is that name a temporary joke? 21:05:44 Or a permanent joke? 21:05:48 H4ns insisted I rename it from asdf-driver 21:05:50 permanent 21:05:56 Xach: right, but you generally have to know the latest version in order to fetch it 21:06:00 Ahh, so the contest was to find something even worse than asdf-driver? 21:06:11 I suppose. 21:06:12 Where can uiop be found? 21:06:13 Fare: i suggested it. 21:06:17 same place 21:06:23 Same place as what? 21:06:43 dlowe: Actually, knowing the latest version is the exception. Most projects provide a foo-latest.tgz or similar. 21:06:57 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/archives/uiop-2.32.tar.gz 21:07:07 That is an exceptional project. 21:07:20 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/archives/uiop.tar.gz 21:07:25 Hooray! 21:07:57 Fare: should asdf-driver be removed? 21:08:19 yes, uiop contains asdf-driver, including package nicknames and forwarding .asd 21:08:43 H4ns, I hope at least you're happy with the result. 21:09:12 "Utilities for Implementation- and OS- Portability" 21:09:16 Fare: that .tar.gz conains no .lisp source files 21:09:20 i've been having a nice time with uiop the last couple days. 21:09:24 oops, that's a bug then 21:09:38 lemme fix it 21:09:54 i never got used to typing asdf-driver or asdf-utils 21:10:03 What was wrong with asdf-driver? 21:10:05 now i've been typing uiop and it's been helping my life a lot 21:10:09 Fare: I don't like UIOP very much as a name, but that is a good backronym 21:10:45 we have to decide how to pronounce "uiop" 21:10:54 In a way that is very offensive to italians, probably 21:11:12 "wee-op" 21:11:14 Or maybe just italian-americans? I don't know about these things. 21:11:17 you-ee-op? 21:12:48 de-stress the "you" part 21:13:06 a very slight almost silent "you" sound at the beginning, then "wee-op" 21:13:06 *oGMo* has no idea what offends people, but i'm sure it offends someone 21:13:11 heh 21:15:15 save-lisp-and-weep 21:15:33 -!- mrdragons [~dummy@198.23.136.244] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:04 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 21:16:06 so uiop will be available separately from ASDF 21:16:19 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:16:47 ok, fixed 21:16:59 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 21:17:10 so for example you can make a monolithic fasl of some system which uses utilities from uiop, and not have it depend on asdf, 21:17:10 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:39 gendl: yes 21:17:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:41 so it can be loaded purely from the fasls and not depend on asdf being there in its bootstrap environment 21:17:59 gendl: or, hopefully, it will work with asdf 2.26 21:18:35 so if the implementation is still providing an old ASDF, uiop will be a way for a system to get ahold of those utils generically thru quicklisp 21:19:23 how much overlap is there between uiop and for example cl-fad 21:19:37 i guess that's a discussion for your pro mailing list thread about pruning down libraries 21:19:54 hopefully that discussion can get rolling again after asdf dust settles here... 21:20:07 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.171.216] has joined #lisp 21:22:08 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.43.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:22 and overlap between uiop and for example alexandria 21:24:08 i guess uiop is small subset of both of those, but by necessity it duplicates some stuff from them. 21:24:37 so a proposal might be to strip out said duplication from cl-fad and alexandria, and have them depend-on uiop. 21:24:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 21:24:48 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:24:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:25:20 -!- robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:25:21 and testing it with asdf 2.26, I see a subtle incompatibility in how getenv-pathname is invoked. Sigh. 21:26:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:26:51 I'll issue a backward-compatible uiop-2.32.3. Dammit. I'll include uiop backward compatibility tests in the asdf test suite 21:28:24 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.173.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:09 dioxirane [~aqualung@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:29:09 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.173.25] has joined #lisp 21:29:47 gendl, I t 21:29:49 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:59 believe uiop is a vast improvement over most of cl-fad 21:30:19 actually tested on more implementations. 21:31:06 with the precise meaning of various functions chosen to actually work in a portable way. 21:31:15 -!- dioxirane [~aqualung@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 21:31:33 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.173.25] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:32:10 ok, i'll strip out our few references to cl-fad stuff and replace with uiop. before Sunday. in anticipation of uiop superseding cl-fad. 21:32:17 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.173.25] has joined #lisp 21:32:33 because right now we depend on both asdf-utils (because of one single call to split-string on CCL in portableallegroserve), 21:32:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:45 and cl-fad (for some basic directory listing stuff etc), 21:32:51 and it will be nice to get rid of one of those. 21:33:01 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.59] has joined #lisp 21:33:04 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 i was about to get rid of the split-string from portableallegroserve, but since that's not even my system, I'll go the other way instead. 21:33:11 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:11 i find the name of cl-fad to be better than uiop 21:33:27 the name cl-fad is too specific for what uiop is doing. 21:33:38 fad = "file and directory" 21:33:43 -!- dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 21:33:52 uiop deals with more than files-and-directories 21:34:08 well, uiop is a generally terrible name 21:34:26 the upside is it's easily google searchable 21:34:49 and fast to type 21:34:58 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:35:01 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:03 which is important for utilities which you will use often on command-line, 21:35:12 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-152-129.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:35:25 and when you want to see explicitly those utilities coming from uiop package, not (:use :uiop) and let them get buried in your code. 21:36:04 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:36:07 dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 21:36:11 easy to google? 21:36:26 have you actually tried to that? 21:36:59 Just wait a few months. 21:37:29 "uiop lisp" points to http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ 21:37:59 I expect "uiop" by itself will get to at least 5th place within a couple months, as ASDF is currently. 21:38:02 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:38:37 why not 149751d91b2faa200284e35789f290ab? 21:38:54 149751d91b2faa200284e35789f290ab is not as quick to type. 21:40:59 the-system-formerly-known-as-asdf-driver 21:41:22 uiop is catchier 21:41:29 why not "chauffeur" or something 21:41:42 uiop = "Use It Or Perish" 21:41:45 cute 21:42:21 stassats: if you're aiming for googlability chauffeur is not the best choice 21:42:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:42:37 chauffeur  I don't get it 21:42:39 fe[nl]ix: lisp chauffeur will give the same result 21:43:04 hahaha 21:43:12 gendl: French for driver 21:43:23 english too 21:43:38 ok. very funny. 21:44:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:44:05 it wasn't meant to be funny, sorry 21:44:39 for my next projects I'm going for Russian names 21:44:57 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-152-129.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:45:49 sputnik? perestroika? 21:46:14 sigue sigue? :) 21:46:22 wow... that's great! 21:46:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:46:47 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:14 stassats: baikonaur? 21:47:32 that's a kazakh name! 21:47:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:02 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:48:28 Fare: so the two things I'm using from cl-fad are delete-directory-and-files, and directory-pathname-p 21:48:50 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:19 why not separate file i/o from uiop and name it Fabulous File Fidgeting Utility? 21:51:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.205.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:29 integral file fidgeting collection or IFFC? 21:51:42 stassats: I need a new name for middleman. there's already a ruby library with that name 21:51:48 (not to be confused with CFFI :-) 21:51:49 Why not cut it into four different packages named u i o and p? 21:51:57 stassats: posrednik ? 21:52:55 fe[nl]ix: yeah, that's it 21:53:05 So "There are two difficult problems in CS, off by one errors and naming things" wasn't a joke? 21:53:17 although a slangy "baryga" is more fun, but it has a negative connotation 21:53:30 what connotation ? 21:53:34 pimp ? 21:54:04 stassats: posrednik I'd assume is more portable across slavic languages :) 21:54:15 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:51 fe[nl]ix: a somewhat less than faithful middleman, but i don't think anyone knowing russian would want to use such a library 21:54:53 pavelpenev: is it the same in bulgarion too ? 21:55:15 hahaha 21:55:19 fe[nl]ix: yes, but baryga is a new word for me :) 21:57:19 middleman, why not pinkyman or indexman? 21:58:06 it's going to be a network connection manager 21:58:16 so middleman seemed appropriate 22:00:05 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:30 a diplomat? Chargé d'affaires 22:02:10 ?? 22:02:23 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:02:35 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:02:50 those are not russian words, granted 22:03:10 I'd prefer one word only 22:04:27 internuncio? 22:06:02 nominative would be internuntius 22:06:21 almost as good as posrednik 22:07:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:09:46 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:09:52 malbertife [~Miranda@host83-60-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:10:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-127-80.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:10:55 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 22:11:14 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:14:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:10 -!- sdemarre [~serge@125.162-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:18:10 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:47 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 22:23:10 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.171.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:27:21 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.42.46] has joined #lisp 22:27:59 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75508f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:29:29 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:31:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:30 youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:33:30 -!- youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:09 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.42.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:13 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:35:17 youlysse` [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:56 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-70.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:44 grrr, on clisp I can't seem to fmakunbound and defun a function in the same fasl. 22:39:22 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-016-207.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:39:25 gendl, I unhappily don't have a delete-directory-and-files in uiop -- it's the kind of dangerous function I always dread to include in a script. 22:39:59 Fare: fair enough. 22:40:21 Fare: for now I removed asdf-utils dependency from portableallegroserve, 22:40:38 replaced asdf-utils;split-string with cl-ppcre:split "\\s" 22:41:15 Fare: what if you wrap the fmakunbound with (eval-when .. ) ? 22:41:38 i know you are the last one I should suggest that to, after your "dangerous to mental health" article... 22:42:39 gendl, I would accept a variant of rm-rf that always comes with a secondary function to check that the filename is indeed what you want to delete 22:43:08 and a macro that makes it easy to declare those assertions on the thing you're going to delete 22:43:26 good idea 22:44:04 I do NOT want a naked rm-rf in my utilities. 22:44:37 gendl, it's already wrapped in eval-when. Maybe that's the issue. 22:45:05 clisp always finds a way to make me angry. 22:45:14 so much to love, so much to hate about it. 22:45:40 but the hate is sticky 22:46:06 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 22:46:57 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.23.126.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:48:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:02 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:02 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:08 *Fare* puts a tarball of 2.32.4 for uiop. Will work with asdf 2.26. 22:49:14 Unlike 2.32. :-( 22:50:32 Fare: what was the deal with fmakunbound in clisp ? 22:51:15 because across versions, asdf has had functions with subtle semantic changes, I fmakunbound them before to define them 22:51:29 clisp won't let me do that, unlike all other implementations 22:51:39 (well, gcl 2.6 also fails, but gcl 2.6 is retarded) 22:52:06 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.23.121.29] has joined #lisp 22:54:17 I suppose it's a good sign that all issues with 2.32 have been asdf upgrade from or uiop compatibility with old versions of asdf. 22:54:42 i.e. not issues if your implementation provides asdf 2.32. 22:56:09 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:56:59 in my copious free time, I should write a basic test suite for implementations and include al the bugs I found while writing asdf that I have had to work around. 22:57:01 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:57:08 how can you use fmakunbound in a fasl? 22:57:34 bitonic [~user@b01bf0a7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:58:06 I wish pfdietz was still testing. 22:59:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:01:12 whartung: what do you mean? 23:01:34 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-yllweqlathpasblk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:01:35 I guess it's more "why" would you use it 23:01:49 ikki [~ikki@187.208.224.76] has joined #lisp 23:01:56 probably for hot upgrading 23:02:30 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:02:35 why would you need it? Why wouldn't redefining it work? I guess it's to physically remove something that is no longer needed? 23:03:09 redefining generic functions won't work 23:05:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:05:13 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:08:34 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:35 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 23:09:56 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 23:10:20 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:12:35 -!- pkkm [~pawel@acwj35.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:06 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-vvcmdaxidggjmidm] has joined #lisp 23:14:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:15:43 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:16:56 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 23:18:42 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:19:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:16 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:27:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:28:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:29:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:30:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:30:49 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-130-066.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:38 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:48 -!- malbertife [~Miranda@host83-60-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! 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