00:00:26 did i mention i made an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug ridden, slow implementation of half of series 00:00:56 no, but if it's easy to read, it might be worthwhile! 00:01:10 it's actually just a collection of poor-man's generators 00:01:10 Qworkescence: or maybe they avoid too-clever-by-half codewalking magic. 00:01:27 *drewc* is not going to say why he does not like and does not use SERIES , just that he does not. 00:02:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:03:09 Dalek_Baldwin, this is what i wrote but i doubt it will be helpful: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/8aa715880dea362becd7058dd692a1c66d9e13b2/generators.lisp?at=default 00:03:49 example http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.lispworks.general/12144 00:05:18 Qworkescence: heh .... I actually remember that lispworks ML posting, but did not pay attention 'til now :) 00:06:41 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:33 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:19 I created a macro for cond-no-lazy, but since I'm a beginner, I think my macro is horrible 00:08:49 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-rhpxzpmptvyxnznn] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:08:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:09:33 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:38 could you help me improve this macro? http://paste.lisp.org/+2WTI 00:09:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:25 Denommus, (defmacro cond-no-lazy (&rest conds-list) (cons 'progn (mapcar (lambda (cond-res) (cons 'when cond-res)) conds-list))) 00:12:32 i hope i typed that right 00:12:51 Qworkescence: ah, that kind of non lazy 00:12:53 Denommus: Sure ... just before the first paren, do "C-M-k" ... then, explain exactly what it is you want and what you want it to return, then define a function which does so. Then, only if requred, do you need a new language (syntax, macro, whatever). 00:13:01 toekutr [~user@50.0.51.11] has joined #lisp 00:13:38 *drewc* should have put a ":)" at the end of that, but is :)'ing 00:13:54 drewc: it must be exactly like cond, but without lazy evaluation (that is, I want all my conditions to be parsed, no matter if there is a T in the way) 00:14:04 parsed? 00:14:13 evaluated, sorry 00:14:15 evaluated 00:14:30 So, nothing like COND then? 00:14:49 Almost, but not quite, completely unlike COND 00:14:58 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:15:09 the syntax is equal to cond, but the objective is completely different 00:15:09 he wants a chained when not a chained if 00:15:10 :) 00:15:10 what do you want to happen to the clauses, you want them all evaluated also 00:15:37 so if there are 5 conditions in the !COND, and 3 of them are true, those three clauses fire? 00:15:38 no, the clauses will only be evaluated if the conditions are T 00:15:49 whartung: exactly 00:16:38 (progn (when condition form) (when condition2 form)) ? 00:16:41 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.153.61] has joined #lisp 00:16:49 right 00:16:57 *Fade* concludes some hellacious bodgery 00:16:59 he wants a macro to rewrite COND like that 00:17:06 why? 00:17:51 because I think cond's syntax is a lot cleaner then a lot of "when"s, but I want all the conditions to be evaluated 00:17:53 It's like Cs `switch` statement. 00:18:03 Or  is it? Hrmm. 00:18:11 s/then/than/ 00:18:17 I guess not. fall-through is different. 00:18:25 sellout-: no. 00:18:27 no it's not 00:18:35 it's like a collect 00:18:41 (there's another word) 00:18:45 (I forget) 00:19:12 Denommus: so, you are worried about syntax more than the problems you are trying to solve? Or : what problem are you trying to solve? 00:19:14 in the code i posted, it's unlike cond in that it doesn't have implicit progns 00:19:37 drewc: I already solved the problem I was trying to solve, but yeah, I wanted a cleaner syntax 00:20:41 I'm trying to accomplish a DSL for defining actions for a game character. I'm just experimenting different approaches 00:20:52 ok, so you want a cleaner syntax ... but what has come up so far is a mess imo ... so ... did you want to create a new problem :P 00:21:16 -!- toekutr [~user@50.0.51.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:13 oh, DSLs .. never mind then, I tend to use Common Lisp and prefer my code to be 'clean' ... can I suggest that you speak with those who will be using the new language and see what is desired? 00:23:05 something like Ruby's chingu... well, I think I'll look for another approach 00:23:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.168.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:23:22 *drewc* does use s-sql through! that is a DSL! kinda sorta. 00:23:41 s/through/though 00:24:16 I think a macro that rewrites: (UNCOND ((= a b) (dothing)) ((> 1 2) (doOtherThing)) (t (dothisanyway)) as a (PROGN (when ) (when ) ) etc should be straight forward. what's the big deal? 00:24:52 call is ALLCOND or ALLWHEN 00:25:17 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 00:25:20 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:55 whartung: I don't know what's the deal, I'm just trying to: a - understand how lists are handled. b - understand macros. c - create a DSL 00:29:50 Denommus: well, start at the start .. a. What do you mean by "a - understand how lists are handled." what knowledge are you seeking? 00:29:57 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:30:00 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.148.201.117] has joined #lisp 00:30:13 drewc: I'm a Common Lisp beginner, I'm learning by practicing 00:30:28 that doesn't answer the question 00:30:31 aaumov_ [~an@niobe.agnitas.de] has joined #lisp 00:30:33 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:30:38 ok, so what knowledge are you seeking? 00:30:51 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:21 drewc: I want to learn how to properly use macros, how to manipulate lists, and how to create DSL's 00:31:48 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.69.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:31:48 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 00:32:19 Denommus: PCL will help you ? 00:32:38 sw2wolf: I'm already reading it. Now I'm practicing 00:32:41 -!- anaumov [~an@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:44 sw2wolf: also, Land of Lisp 00:33:10 ok, so what knowledge are you seeking from #lisp, lisp itself, common lispm and exactly what are you looking for that has not been presented to you already? 00:33:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:33:49 drewc: I was just looking for somebody to criticize my macro, it's not like I'm asking for you to teach me CL 00:34:22 Denommus: you will find that the first criticism #lisp offers about any macro is "Why do you want this macro?" 00:34:56 this is often miisinterpreted as people being cagy, but it's a very pertinent question. 00:35:02 ok, well if other folks ask you a question, you should answer it. Beyond that, well, I will Shut The Fuck Up. Thanks for the knowledge of why! 00:35:35 Fade: I know, but thanks for the input 00:37:14 anyway, I'm just experimenting different approaches. Probably this specific one will be discarded 00:37:30 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.121.78] has joined #lisp 00:37:32 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:31 Denommus, http://paste.lisp.org/display/135849 00:38:46 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:40:12 that's cute :) 00:40:27 Qworkescence: good one, thanks 00:40:37 Qworkescence: I like the FLET there :) 00:40:41 that is how i would personally write it, but if you care about its return value, then you'll notice that the last case's value is returned, which means if the last case fails, then you'll have NIL returned, as opposed to the last "successful" value 00:41:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:43 Qworkescence: in this specific situation, the return value is not that important. Thanks :) 00:44:27 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 00:47:03 Here is one where the return value is the last successful case: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135849#1 00:47:48 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 00:48:08 (it can be made to cons less but is probably Good Enough for most use cases) 00:48:23 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:50:22 -!- arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-39-198.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:50:39 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:54:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:56:36 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:03 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d819991.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:14 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 01:00:32 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d816839.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:07:09 Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:57 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:10:54 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:12:49 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:15:13 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 01:17:24 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:20:02 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:20:15 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:58 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.193.168.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:19 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:26:42 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:19 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:31:31 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:47 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:42 arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-222-171.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 01:37:04 Does CCL have asdf and quicklisp built-in to the precompiled binaries these days? It sure looks like it... 01:37:34 but the M-. for e.g. asdf:load-system lands me in ~/quicklisp/asdf.lisp, which is not the version which I get from (asdf:asdf-version) 01:40:52 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.113] has joined #lisp 01:41:21 gendl: asdf is bundled, but QL isn't, I don't think. And neither are built into the default image. 01:42:00 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d819991.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:42:36 hmm then I must be missing something because e.g. (asdf:asdf-version) works for me immediately after startup, and I'm pretty sure I am not loading any init files. 01:44:59 and the version doesn't match the version of /opt/local/share/ccl/1.8/tools/asdf.lisp --- that version is 2.20 and (asdf:asdf-version) gives 2.26... 01:45:37 now am trying to upgrade to 2.32 but not sure where to put the upgrade. Anyway never mind I will ask openmcl-devel@clozure.com 01:46:02 gendl, there's also a ccl channel 01:46:29 Qworkescence: ok, thanks. Also an asdf channel? 01:46:47 gendl, i think that's this channel mostly :) 01:46:59 Fare, ^ 01:47:02 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:47:05 -!- Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:21 Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:14 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:29 gendl, it has asdf builtin, and quicklisp is a (load ...) away 01:49:04 gendl, quicklisp tries to (require :asdf) before to load its own 01:49:08 clisp load stumpwm error today: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135852 (#stumpwm not active, so post here) 01:49:19 why use clisp? 01:49:35 why not? 01:49:51 because clisp is super-quirky 01:49:51 fast stable and produced small stumpwm image 01:50:02 fast - NO, except maybe for bignums. 01:50:07 except from pjb, i've noticed a stigma around it 01:50:15 stable? as in "little brain activity"? 01:50:30 haha 01:50:41 Fare, can you talk about some of the quirks? 01:50:45 small image ... maybe matters if you're on an embedded system or cell phone, is all 01:51:24 well, whenever there are two interpretations of the CLHS, and one is obviously better than the other one, CLISP will follow the other one. 01:51:25 it eats little RAM for a 1G desktop system 01:51:45 Fare, hahahaha 01:52:45 did I tell you about the insane discussion with sds defending a compulsory backdoor in clisp-produced standalone executables so users can always use the Lisp? 01:52:58 good luck writing +s binaries with clisp 01:53:31 :| 01:53:39 -!- dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-59-158.xnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:53:42 oh, backdoor ? 01:54:02 Fare, you mean that the user always has access to the REPL? 01:55:08 /usr/local/sbin/some-suid-binary-i-thought-was-secure --clisp-x '(system "/bin/sh")' 01:55:14 now i am running clisp built stumpwm. can you connect it through backdoor ? 01:55:34 Fare, :)))) that's great 01:56:26 and no legitimate users can't disable it, only "evil people who want to write non-free software" who will simply disable the backdoor when they compile clisp. 01:56:55 so the backdoor isn't even fulfilling its alleged justification 01:57:00 that is horrible 01:57:04 But is it true? 01:57:09 justinmcp [justinmcp@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 01:57:17 If it was once true, is it still? 01:57:54 suppose someone with clisp installed can test 01:58:06 how ? 01:58:30 stopbit [~stopbit@69.140.100.176] has joined #lisp 01:59:26 *Xach* can never get clisp working from source easily these days and does not like to install the distro packages 01:59:42 sw2wolf, the test Fare proposed: /path/to/stumpwm --clisp-x '(princ "ACCESS GRANTED")' 02:00:00 that is assuming of course it's not poking at *standard-output* and stuff 02:00:17 /* do this before O(argv) is ready so that applications cannot 02:00:17 detect and thus disable "--clisp-" superarg 02:00:28 that's still in src/spvw.d 02:00:36 :)))) 02:00:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:00:54 Qworkescence: I don't think that's the same test. 02:01:03 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:14 Xach, does that not test whether clisp can execute user-provided code? 02:01:24 in any case, the lesson is: do NOT write setuid programs using clisp. 02:01:56 Qworkescence: I thought the test was whether the execution was still suid in the face of such arguments. 02:02:10 oh 02:02:11 -!- Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:27 Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:45 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:03:57 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.29] has joined #lisp 02:04:32 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:04:33 Xach: indeed, there's if (clisp_superarg_used) DROP_PRIVILEGES; 02:05:50 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:06:29 dkasak [~dkasak@dh207-126-154.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 02:06:50 I concede the argument. 02:06:53 Xach: thanks 02:07:14 CLISP does things that I do not like, but they are usually accurately documented. 02:08:01 i still think that is a bad idea, even if it means you can't easily delete / 02:08:06 oh, they are documented, just weird, and sometimes the documentation is hard to navigate. 02:08:11 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@31.176.161.240] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:08:37 Like how it treats the *function* CL:REQUIRE specially to do stuff at compile-time 02:11:00 oh yeah, that's why I (funcall 'require ...) 02:12:10 haha 02:12:15 and how, whereas most implementation allow a keyword argument to rename-file to allow for overwrite, clisp doesn't. 02:12:48 guys, please start a blog called the Trials and Tribulations of Using CLISP 02:12:55 since you both probably touch lots of implementations often 02:13:16 I could never get my package upgrade right on clisp, either. 02:13:54 I used to be more eager to defend CLISP, because in the early 2000s it was very bad and then it got a lot better. 02:14:10 But then it hasn't changed much in a few years. 02:14:18 -!- Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:19 clisp in many ways is great 02:14:25 in other ways is very quirky 02:14:35 Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:42 people were very quick to condemn clisp for things that were fixed 02:14:48 (probably Trials and Tribulations of Using GCL would be better) 02:14:54 they were going for a multiprocessing model also very different from any other lisp implementation. 02:15:04 My policy of ignoring GCL has worked fine so far 02:15:10 :))) 02:15:17 Does GCL still exist? Some guy here managed to compile it, recently -- can you imagine that? 02:15:35 Fare, Some schools, i forgot which, use it for teaching 02:15:39 and require code to work with it 02:16:09 Fare: you say the "were going" for a multiprocessing model... 02:16:16 with GCL? Well these schools haven't updated their software in years, then. Bring in the 'sploits! 02:16:21 rhinux [~rhinux@27.115.15.9] has joined #lisp 02:16:28 does clisp not have multiprocessing yet? 02:16:41 gendl, I believe it's implemented now, but I haven't actually tried it. 02:16:55 I was trying to get portableaserve going with it the other day, there is code in portableaserve to support clisp, 02:17:16 but it looks like it's basically stubs, put there in anticipation of multiprocessing in clisp. 02:17:31 clisp's run-program is annoying, too 02:18:08 and everyone accepts :external-format :utf-8, except clisp. 02:18:56 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.223.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:19:42 what does clisp accept instead? 02:19:44 also, the way clisp handles -i and -x arguments has subtle but annoying differences with how other implementations handle --load and --eval arguments. 02:19:49 charset:utf-8 02:20:47 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 02:21:00 oh, and clisp considers that the "failure" result of compile-file just means "there were non-style warnings" which are "just warnings", and so it is effectively useless. 02:21:57 kennyd [kennyd@93-136-126-64.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:22:14 there are lots of small details like that that get on my nerves. Their FFI was sui generis, too, though nowadays CFFI supports it. 02:23:24 -!- marcux [~marco@177.32.180.211] has quit [Quit: marcux] 02:26:16 -!- justinmcp [justinmcp@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:27:02 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:17 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:30:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.17] has joined #lisp 02:30:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.17] has quit [Changing host] 02:30:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:34:13 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:34:35 -!- arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-222-171.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:36:34 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 02:40:40 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:58 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:44:27 -!- kennyd [kennyd@93-136-126-64.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:48:01 cajetanu` [~user@79.186.143.20] has joined #lisp 02:52:00 -!- cajetanus [~user@aefs47.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:53:56 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:54:22 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:55:52 listen_more [6c00b766@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.0.183.102] has joined #lisp 02:57:06 anyone here know if franz is hiring? 03:01:25 listen_more: I don't know, and there are rarely franz people here. 03:02:18 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:02:52 *sw2wolf* thinking about using other CL impl. to build stumpwm instead of clisp ... 03:03:27 why? clisp and stump works great 03:04:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/135852 03:05:17 sw2wolf, ecl_bytecodes might be comparable in size to clisp 03:06:04 Fare: i tried ECL before. However i failed to run its image 03:06:06 sw2wolf: clisp has its own clx. 03:06:46 Xach: yes, but it works before using clx from QuickLisp 03:07:59 ok, all the packages that cl-test-grid still sees as failing after disabling deferred-warnings have now been fixed. Except buildapp. 03:08:41 sw2wolf: What works? 03:12:11 Xach: stumpwm built with CLISP + QuickLisp's CLX 03:12:13 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-222-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:59 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:33 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.54.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:20:18 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:20:27 xach if I was Gavino, would I ask you to unban me? 03:20:47 linse [~marioooh@out-pq-135.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 03:21:23 Gavino is technically a human being - he might have learned some low animal cunning. 03:21:31 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.121.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:47 surprising ! success after removing stumpwm from ~/.cache/... http://paste.lisp.org/display/135852 03:22:23 sw2wolf: its the same paste? 03:22:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:22:27 listen_more: what do you want to do for Franz? You know they do at least as much "big data" work as Lisp these days, right? 03:22:44 Subfusc: adding annotation 03:23:47 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 03:24:16 *sw2wolf* it is time for lunch, bye 03:24:24 -!- sw2wolf is now known as sw2wolf{away} 03:24:51 lunch? what timezone is he in? 03:25:12 Somewhere in eastern Asia, maybe. 03:25:21 oh yeah? 03:26:17 would franz be doing like bigtable in lisp to enable that? I see something about rdf triplestores on thier site, and might watch thier video about rdf triplestores vs sql databases 03:26:40 with an rdf triplestore can you make relations n build up complex tables n queries? 03:26:46 <---one curious lil guy 03:26:56 listen_more: they do use Allegro CL (probably a highly tweaked version of it) for their core RDF triple-store engine. 03:27:38 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:56 but I think a lot of their "busy work" involves heavy testing and making it accessible to all kinds of environments 03:28:04 they have clients in a ton of different languages 03:28:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.17] has joined #lisp 03:28:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.17] has quit [Changing host] 03:28:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:28:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 03:29:14 so if you worked there you might get stuck working on a fat Java client application 03:32:24 By the way I'm thinking of opening up our Issues list: https://github.com/genworks/Genworks-GDL/issues?state=open 03:32:26 for bidding 03:32:31 if anyone is interested. 03:32:38 -!- back-sey43 [~back-sey4@67.182.147.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:32:56 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:33:06 Some of these issues require the commercial version with the SMLib geometry kernel (it should be obvious which ones these are), 03:33:36 those would be more complicated to get set up with the required environment to be able to bid/work on 03:34:24 but most of the pure Lisp ones should be reproducible with CCL Mac/Linux/Windows or SBCL Mac/Linux. 03:36:31 i'll see about adding labels to the ones which have to do with SMLib geometry 03:36:37 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:34 rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-69-50.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:45 hmm 03:41:52 screw java 03:41:55 n perl 03:42:09 I wish people would use more lisp haskell smalltalk and forth 03:42:10 does anyone use lisp with microcontrollers, if so, is their any good websites to learn from? 03:42:10 -!- linse [~marioooh@out-pq-135.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 03:42:38 listen_more: clojure is a lisp dialect that runs on the Java VM 03:42:55 I personally dislike it, I don't like the way it uses []s for vectors 03:43:03 its syntax is IMO uglier and less consistent than that of other lisps 03:43:12 kennyd [kennyd@78-1-169-78.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:43:15 but a lot of people like it and its probably the most popular, fashionable and well-used lisp ATM 03:43:18 aside from emacs lisp 03:43:57 -!- Guest9352 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:45:29 nan_` [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 03:45:44 wishes oracle and java would disappear 03:45:50 arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-31-56.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 03:46:00 :) 03:46:29 I am having trouble learning lisp from paul grahams book 03:46:47 unless I am just expecting to learn bit by bit, I am going back to gento intro to symbolic 03:47:18 daniel [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 03:47:19 k0001 [~k0001@190.224.65.187] has joined #lisp 03:47:31 -!- daniel is now known as Guest17481 03:49:40 -!- nan_` [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:40 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:43 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 03:54:18 -!- ghast [~user@186.109.193.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:54:31 i am trying to write a defsetf in a defmacro, i tried tens of minutes with backquote syntax and couldn't get anywhere, but it is so simple that with list syntax it didn't take 20 seconds... shouldn't be the other way around? 03:54:40 listen_more: The U.S. Department of Homeland Security is doing a pretty good job of trying to snuff out Java, at least in the web browser. It's still useful to keep it around though, just for ABCL. 03:54:53 nan_: nested backquotes are icky. 03:55:43 -!- Guest17481 [~user@74-134-242-5.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:55:50 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:55:55 Bike: i wrote list version now using that i'll learn how to write backquote version >< 03:55:56 nan_ also some implementation don't do ,@,@ correctly 03:56:27 Fare: i got some strange results with sbcl but most likely my fault 03:57:10 sbcl has correct ,@,@ if I recall 03:57:50 ada!! 03:57:58 ada has a cool webserver now 03:58:00 AWS 03:58:19 btw for every list syntax there is a backquote syntax right? guarantied? i read somewhere they say many compilers had problems with backquotes before, so maybe not that easy to implment maybe? 03:58:51 every combination of list, append, nconc, and quote, i guess? 04:00:43 i mean defmacro list syntax, if i can make a macro with list syntax i should be able to make it with backquote i think, right? 04:03:06 list form 04:03:06 (defmacro mac (cols) 04:03:06 (defsetf ,name-row (m i) (v) 04:03:06 (list 'progn 04:03:09 ,@(loop for j from 0 below cols 04:03:12 collect `(list 'setf (list 'aref m i ,j) (list 'aref v ,j)))))) 04:03:24 oops that was quite a spam sorry 04:04:25 you seem to have forgotten a backquote. 04:04:57 ah right, copy/modify paste wasn't enough :) 04:05:05 paste.lisp.org 04:05:46 just add a backquote before at `(defsetf and should be ok i think 04:05:53 -!- kennyd [kennyd@78-1-169-78.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:06:47 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 04:07:17 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:07:45 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-9.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:16 -!- tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:08:33 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] 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http://colloquy.mobi] 07:01:48 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.156.93] has joined #lisp 07:02:37 drewc: you can count on me with the following relevant skills: linux admin, some trac admin, postgres. I owe not only the lisp community, but you too, so let me know if I can help... 07:03:43 attila_lendvai: you can indeed, /join #common-lisp.net and we can discuss such things on topic :) and thanks! 07:03:47 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d819991.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:11 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:08:11 -!- clintm [uid1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjjylzdcklnnfwno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:08:42 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d819991.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-24-82.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:53 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:10:37 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e01e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:31 -!- nirman [uid10221@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vjkskngmrqowvnno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:13:54 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcdlywoofaqikmur] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:14:19 drewc: I might be able to donate some technical skills, but I'm currently quite busy 07:14:24 drewc: will know better by next week :) 07:15:29 p_l: /join #common-lisp.net if you want to keep up with the chatting ... that is going to be my primary thing ... that and CC's to folks for a fake mailing list 07:15:47 /j #common-lisp.net 07:15:50 daaaamn 07:15:55 didn't notice the space :) 07:17:25 -!- cajetanus [~user@79.186.143.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:19:10 robot-beethoven [~user@24.118.142.0] has joined #lisp 07:19:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:20:32 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@24.118.142.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:44 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:27:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:29:25 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF50879.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:09 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF5098D.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:34:37 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:08 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:35 -!- aaumov_ [~an@niobe.agnitas.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:43:21 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:45:09 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:49:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:51:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:51:42 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.113.83] has quit [Quit: I be back.] 07:53:43 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:56:51 jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:58:33 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 08:06:43 dt770 [dt770@c-fa1ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:07:34 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:08:45 zorkmoid [c2ed8e15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.21] has joined #lisp 08:08:56 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:08:57 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:09:40 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115.64.180.132] has joined #lisp 08:09:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:11:47 please excuse me if this is a stupid question, but is the maxima source code very different from recently written ones? 08:12:24 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 08:13:02 think so. 08:13:08 ehu [~ehu@109.34.105.255] has joined #lisp 08:13:40 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fuqoomyprjyijonl] has joined #lisp 08:14:21 where could i find good written recent codebases? 08:15:12 snowylike: look at what xach wrote. 08:15:18 snowylike: or at cl-ppcre 08:17:03 H4ns: thanks - they can be found at common-lisp.net, i suppose? 08:17:21 snowylike: no, github 08:17:36 H4ns: perfect 08:17:56 snowylike: https://github.com/xach / https://github.com/edicl/ 08:18:41 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:20:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:20:56 -!- agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:23:06 pjb writes good lisp too 08:23:39 hu.dwim stuff is pretty good but definitely non-idiomatic 08:23:47 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:02 what does it mean for cl code to be non-idiomatic? 08:24:11 thanks for all recommendations, by the way 08:24:14 snowylike: by idiomatic I mean "common style" 08:24:22 i think ih ave macsyma somewhere.. 08:24:25 hu.dwim code is definitely *not* common style 08:24:37 p_l: well, what is common style then? 08:24:40 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:24:43 snowylike: it has a few extensions/conventions not widely accepted 08:24:48 snowylike: basically, idiomatic => "uses common idioms" 08:24:50 it should be said that todays common lisp is not what you wrote 20 years back 08:25:05 ah okay 08:25:14 there is a less usage on macros today, and more usage of clos 08:25:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:25:24 snowylike: idiomatic code usually avoids deviating much from the style you see in CLHS, for example 08:25:31 tends to make reading stuff easier 08:25:40 but an important feature of lisp is that you can "build" the language towards your problems, not only the other way around 08:25:57 ^^^^^ most-positive-fixnum times that 08:26:24 hard reading...yes. maybe it's just a function of me being totally new, but i found the maxima code to be hard to understand at times 08:26:52 maxima is hard, since it does a hard job :-) 08:26:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:27:05 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-224-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:26 also note that with slime most abstractions are a C-c RET or a M-. away, so you learn quickly common abstractions if they make sense 08:27:29 well, i thought that it's maybe easier to read a program doing things that you're interested in academically 08:27:32 i vaguely remember maxima using a ton of specials and weird macros, and indentation i'm not used to 08:27:35 same as series 08:27:47 snowylike: Maxima is... heavily impacted by its own history 08:27:51 varjag_ [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fczmuhkfeibhyznj] has joined #lisp 08:27:58 also there's that whole gcl everything 08:28:07 p_l: heh, I like that expression... :) 08:28:15 so it's not the best example? 08:29:23 snowylike: the best example for what? 08:29:32 nirman [uid10221@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ookbvppnqfuyisle] has joined #lisp 08:29:34 oh, sorry 08:29:56 maxima, or macsyma is not smething i would throw at someone to learn common lisp ... 08:30:12 that answers my question 08:30:34 and CLHS is the Common Lisp HyperSpec, correct? 08:30:42 yes 08:30:46 okay 08:31:35 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 08:32:01 snowylike: I heartily recommend becoming familiar with browsing through CLHS 08:32:11 it's written very well and with lots of examples 08:32:24 and you can view it from within emacs, if i read that correctly? 08:32:37 yes 08:32:43 that's how I do it :) 08:34:41 i've been using dpans2texi 08:34:55 converts the hyperspec into texinfo ... 08:36:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:12 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:38:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:39:02 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:41:51 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:42:06 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:42:27 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:35 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 08:42:48 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@37.203.70.163] has joined #lisp 08:43:56 shifty [~user@114-198-34-246.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:44:13 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.156.93] has left #lisp 08:47:32 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:47:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:29 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:53:05 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:12 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:58:29 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:00:34 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:19 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host116.186-125-117.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:25 clintm [uid1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oyvimhvgfnyijfbr] has joined #lisp 09:07:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:09:47 tcbarrett [~tcbarrett@paprika.graq.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:14:29 cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:24:51 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:12 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 09:30:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-211.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:34:52 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:39:58 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:43:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:15 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 09:49:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.182.211] has joined #lisp 09:49:27 abeaumont [~abeaumont@37.15.178.24] has joined #lisp 09:51:12 -!- jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:57 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:56:30 oh dear, someone purposed here at the univ. that one should write a cl compiler that targets forth 09:56:35 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-167-168.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56:41 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 09:57:26 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 09:57:28 Why? 09:58:16 zorkmoid, a compiler from CL to Forth? 09:58:24 Quadrescence: yes 09:58:31 It's not necessarily a bad idea, but what was the justification? 09:58:39 "because" 09:59:06 Well, beggars can't be choosers. :) 09:59:09 and then some philosophical reasoning of joinging forth and lisp in holy union 10:00:33 Well, Baker had some nice things to say about that. 10:01:28 Have a look at his Linear Lisp essay. 10:03:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:06:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:08:10 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:11 hlavaty [~user@80.153.143.144] has joined #lisp 10:11:54 jarmond [~user@137.205.238.72] has joined #lisp 10:21:26 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:23:33 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@37.15.178.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:51 abeaumont [~abeaumont@24.178.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:26:00 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.165.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:23 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 10:26:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:27:48 Guest2606 [~ilisp@115.195.172.148] has joined #lisp 10:28:27 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:28:34 -!- Guest2606 is now known as cfy 10:28:38 -!- cfy [~ilisp@115.195.172.148] has quit [Changing host] 10:28:39 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:29:10 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 10:30:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:30:56 marcux [~marco@177.32.180.211] has joined #lisp 10:31:00 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:11 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.165.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:31:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:31:15 -!- zulu_inuoe [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:33:19 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 10:36:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 10:37:12 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:38:36 -!- tcbarrett [~tcbarrett@paprika.graq.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:39:12 milosn [~milosn@user-5AF509B4.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:56 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF50879.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:42:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:45:20 Writing CL compilers targetting anything is always a good idea, if only for the fun. 10:45:43 Now, of course, writing a CL compiler targetting Javascript would be more useful than targetting forth. 10:47:30 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:54 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 10:49:08 _danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:35 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:51:07 I am increasingly less convinced that CL implementations are actually a good idea. 10:52:43 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 10:55:10 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:56:05 mathrick [~mathrick@195.184.110.34] has joined #lisp 10:56:43 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:10 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:59:12 -!- marcux [~marco@177.32.180.211] has quit [Quit: marcux] 11:00:20 -!- _danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:01:30 akovalen` [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 11:01:39 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:03 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:10:02 -!- rhinux [~rhinux@27.115.15.9] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:15:44 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:21 why? 11:19:23 mk527 [~user@csml-2.eng.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:20:55 what is bad with targetting cl to other "architectures" (so to speak) 11:21:28 zorkmoid: I think Zhivago is talking about fragmentation of effort 11:21:46 -!- jarmond [~user@137.205.238.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:24:44 fragmantation of what exactly? cl is standardized... 11:25:14 zorkmoid: *effort*, not code (also, level of compliance with standard can vary...) 11:26:08 i see it as a means to get a better testing environment for the spec, as for effort, everything takes effort 11:26:25 Sure. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do it. 11:26:39 I just find it increasingly hard to justify the cost of CL. 11:26:59 but that isn't related to making cl target other "arches" 11:27:22 that is more trying to get people using cl, which has nothing to do with the target system 11:27:41 See above. 11:27:48 see what above? 11:28:36 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:30:01 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:30:33 you are arguing, as i understand it, for the viablity of CL as a language, which is a different topic, and one that i disagree with very loudly, cl is the sanest language that allows you to do stuff quickly and sanley. 11:30:53 rather, there is nothing else as viable as cl in my book. 11:31:22 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:32:58 I hope that you and your sense of conviction are very happy together. 11:33:38 knob [~anon@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 11:33:40 we are, and it puts money on the table. 11:34:09 Zhivago: why do you think cl is not viable? 11:34:39 I made no such claim. 11:35:17 as i read it, that is exactly what you said. 11:36:03 That does not reflect well on your reading skills. 11:36:20 you said, wrote ... that cl "is hard to justify cost wise", and that "cl implementations are not a good idea" 11:36:28 Zhivago: why are you being so rude? 11:36:48 How am I being rude? 11:37:14 Zhivago: silly attacks towards someones reading ability. 11:37:33 Well, you claimed that I wrote exactly something that I did not. 11:38:10 Or rather to have read it. 11:38:16 Zhivago: i wrote that, that was how i understood you, if i misunderstood you instead of attacking me personally, how about clarifying things? don't you think that is bit more productive? 11:38:19 And now you're misquoting. 11:38:30 Why are you being so rude? 11:39:00 sighs, i did't misquote you, nor am i being rude. 11:39:40 Where did I write "cl implementations are not a good idea"? 11:40:12 [11:51] I am increasingly less convinced that CL implementations are actually a good idea. 11:40:21 Did you quote that correctly? 11:41:03 Zhivago: sorry, i do not have time to play silly word marking games, you know perfectly well what i wish to discuss. 11:41:15 i am going back to write code. 11:41:33 Well, I guess you just wanted to be rude. 11:43:22 kindergarten 11:43:24 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:43:27 indeed... 11:43:53 i liked the cookies best in kindergarden. 11:44:59 cookies! ^_^ 11:46:34 Yuuhi [benni@p5DC63FE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:49 yeah, my kids go to kindergarden, and there is this lovley lady that makes the most wonderful chocolate chip cookies.. 11:51:23 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@195.184.110.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:03 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-224-027.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:54:05 bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 11:54:24 -!- bubo is now known as Guest76322 11:55:28 d00d... there's no yummy cookies were I'm at. =( 11:56:40 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 11:58:12 jarmond [~user@137.205.238.119] has joined #lisp 11:59:26 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:59:54 jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 11:59:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-24-82.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:01:23 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:02:06 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:03:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:06:48 -!- wc [~a@173.254.255.83] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:07:02 wc [~a@173.254.255.83] has joined #lisp 12:09:36 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 12:11:23 -!- jarmond [~user@137.205.238.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:12:21 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 12:13:39 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:15:14 sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@113.92.73.8] has joined #lisp 12:17:24 -!- sabayonuser2 is now known as hyoung 12:19:12 mathrick [~mathrick@stud-136.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 12:23:39 wallclockbuilder [~wallclock@80.87.92.52] has joined #lisp 12:24:08 shifty` [~user@114-198-34-246.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:24:17 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-34-246.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:50 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:36:23 -!- antgreen [~green@64.56.225.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:55 browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.250] has joined #lisp 12:36:59 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.250] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:37:05 -!- lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:37:37 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:01 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:38:06 browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.250] has joined #lisp 12:38:20 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:38:29 bitonic [~user@dyn1222-84.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:38:58 lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.12] has joined #lisp 12:39:13 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:42:21 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.137.196] has joined #lisp 12:43:09 -!- hyoung [~sabayonus@113.92.73.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:45:08 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.208.67.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.182.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:08 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.251.137.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:51:04 -!- Guest76322 [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:52:36 -!- wallclockbuilder [~wallclock@80.87.92.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:53:24 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@80.14.131.214] has joined #lisp 12:53:29 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-219-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:54:47 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:55:48 madrik [~user@122.168.175.242] has joined #lisp 12:56:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.171.176] has joined #lisp 12:58:22 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:00:14 jarmond [~user@93.96.213.180] has joined #lisp 13:00:22 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 agumonkey [~agu@45.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:33 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 13:11:46 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:12:17 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:38 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:16:41 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 13:17:23 Hi all, is there any cl implementation that supports 80bit fpu float arithmetic? 13:18:42 hmmm 13:18:48 didn't CMU support it? 13:18:58 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 13:19:40 CMUCL has double-double floats, but I don't know if that's the same thing. 13:22:32 They did not write about double-double compilation 13:23:59 asvil: I don't know if it is a contrib. It is not quad floats (128 bit ieee things) but numbers represented by two 64 bit double floats 13:24:21 afaik, no implementation supports the 80 bit floats. 13:26:19 hm, seems, that fpu is obsolete 13:26:24 stopbit [~stopbit@69.140.100.176] has joined #lisp 13:26:32 ok, thanks for all 13:30:30 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:30:46 Fare [~fare@173.9.65.97] has joined #lisp 13:30:54 drmeister [~drmeister@108.52.166.246] has joined #lisp 13:35:14 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:36:14 asvil: clisp supports floating point numbers of any length. 13:37:15 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:37:15 killerbo1 [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 13:37:15 ogamita: is clisp use hardware acceleration for 80bit length floats? 13:37:15 -!- killerbo1 [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Client Quit] 13:37:35 I doubt it, since you can use ANY number of bits: (setf (ext:long-float-digits) 1000) 13:37:41 (/ 3.0l0) 13:37:48 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 13:39:04 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-246-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:19 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:41:20 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 13:42:33 asvil: "64-bit-floats should be enough for everybody" 13:42:52 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-003-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:52 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@108.52.166.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:44 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-zcodujmnipmqqztg] has joined #lisp 13:45:55 prxq: I know, more over I like rationals, but astronomy, numerical integrator runge-cutta, and other science participants likes fpu 80bit. 13:46:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@stud-136.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:46:57 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:47:24 found that scieneer cl uses 80bit fpu 13:48:54 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115.64.180.132] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 13:49:52 cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 14:01:03 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:43 teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.54] has joined #lisp 14:02:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:32 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:06:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:33 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 14:07:40 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:08:04 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 14:08:09 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:08:51 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 14:09:08 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:09:40 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.17] has joined #lisp 14:10:45 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 14:10:53 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:11:48 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 14:14:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:30 clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:23:17 clisp uses gmp in the bottom, which is quite heavily optimized 14:23:59 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:18 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@80.14.131.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:00 Does it? 14:26:16 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@37.203.70.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:29 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:28:33 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@37.203.70.163] has joined #lisp 14:28:53 myx [~myx@pppoe-206-149-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 14:29:35 didn't clisp have its own gmp replacement? 14:29:43 I believe it does, since 2001 or so. 14:30:07 which it also publishes as a separate library 14:32:14 *Fare* adds queues to lil, after a few months of not touching it, and yes, there is something satisfying to lil that I didn't have with other ways of writing data structures. 14:32:36 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:32:38 As usual, got pure, stateful, classy and posh variants all at once. 14:32:59 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 14:33:21 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ubiiaravhmpbpmjz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:46 Fare: lil looks really interesting 14:39:23 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-stmydsvpifzccelv] has joined #lisp 14:40:58 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.29.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:48 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.54] has joined #lisp 14:44:00 the README of fare-memoization is interesting too. 14:44:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 14:44:24 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 14:44:27 thanks 14:45:01 fare-memoization was my being angry at a large N number of memoization libraries, all of them half-baked in the end. 14:45:37 as in, not enough thought spent on it. 14:45:49 and conceptual bugs in the design. 14:46:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:46:31 (they all covered the base cases correctly, in the same way, but all their "advanced" features were bogus, in different ways) 14:47:29 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:36 There are only a few hard problems; one of them is cache-eviction. :) 14:47:46 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:49:00 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:49:43 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:50:03 the other is finding good identifiers? :) 14:52:28 Hmm i got no optimization/type declarations in my code yet i get errors like "the value 0.0d0 not of type single-float" and like, worse is i got no idea where it happened, backtrace say nothing.. this means compilers optimize lambda regardless? 14:53:40 nan_: probably you have make-array for single-float, and try to setf (aref..) 0.0d0 14:55:16 nan_: I'm afraid the channels' telepaths are overworked. You might want to paste a reduced test case somewhere. 14:55:24 asvil: this is definitely it! but i at least expect debugger reported where it happened. 14:56:30 nan_: "backtrace says nothing" sounds fishy. did you look into the compilation log? 14:56:48 Zhivago, for memoization? uh, argument normalization is another problem. 14:57:05 nan_: optimize at a higher debug level to get more precise location. And the compiler may very well have warned you about this very problem, when you compiled. 14:57:09 how to use implementation-dependent weak hash tables is another problem. 14:57:29 Normalization is easier than eviction, imho. 14:57:31 H4ns: it doesn't say nothing, i mean't nothing useful.0: (SB-KERNEL::OBJECT-NOT-SINGLE-FLOAT-ERROR-HANDLER ..) 14:57:31 1: (SB-KERNEL:INTERNAL-ERROR #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #XB502C18C) #) 14:57:31 2: ("foreign function: #x80600DB") 14:57:31 3: ("foreign function: #x367459EC") 14:57:34 4: (RAIN:MAIN-LOOP # :X 800 :Y 600 :W 800 :H 600) 14:57:39 14:57:42 sorry for spam ... 14:57:43 nan_: please do not paste into the channel 14:57:50 how to NOT clear all the caches for all the functions memoized by other people who care about them is a problem (apparently) 14:57:54 nan_: "sorry" does not make it better. use paste.lisp.org 14:58:04 nan_: look into the compilation log. 14:58:20 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:58:21 on a side note... 14:58:22 I admit I didn't tackle atomicity issues. 14:58:32 is there a way to implement inline caching without using compiler macros? 14:58:43 H4ns: ok i will, thanks 14:59:03 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-stmydsvpifzccelv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:59:25 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 14:59:34 Zhivago, I'm not sure what you call eviction, or if I understand correctly what you mean (i.e. removing one entry from the cache) why it's particularly problematic (though most memoization libraries fail to provide the interface for that) 14:59:50 Well, otherwise you eventually run out of resources. 14:59:53 sykopomp, what do you mean "inline caching"? 15:00:15 oh, ok, not just the mechanism for it, but the policy for when to do it. 15:00:24 Yah. 15:00:30 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:00:37 yeah, that's a hard problem that nobody really tries to tackle. 15:01:02 there is no local solution, and no declarative framework for a global solution. 15:01:15 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:01:21 sykopomp: inline function and load-time-value. 15:01:26 a real 100% solution would go all the way to support in the OS kernel. 15:01:34 sykopomp: you mean like http://random-state.net/log/3507100003.html ? 15:01:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:12 arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-196-189.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 15:02:28 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-dtadkduxrilrqblb] has joined #lisp 15:03:35 I meant an inline cache per call site. Maybe I don't get what load-time-value actually does. On to the spec. 15:04:23 sykopomp: that's where INLINE comes in. If the caching wrapper (with its l-t-v) is inlined, each call site gets its own cache. 15:05:00 pkhuong: is that specified, or accidental? 15:05:07 pkhuong: that is pretty damn cool. Would you prefer that approach over compiler macros, or are they equivalent in what they're able to do? 15:05:16 What if the compiler does the l-t-v first, and then inlines the result? 15:05:17 foom: it's accidental, but alloawed. 15:05:47 Yea, but a better compiler might avoid recompiling the inlined code, and then this hack stops working. 15:06:21 sykopomp: it's simpler than a compiler macro... but if I wrote a compiler macro, I'd expand into something with l-t-v anyway. 15:06:48 pkhuong: thank you! This is an incredibly cool thing. :) 15:06:58 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:08:06 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:08:31 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:08:37 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:09:20 foom: or just by caching values for EQL l-t-v forms. 15:09:23 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:09:40 sykopomp: nikodemus explained all that 2 years ago ;) 15:10:08 pkhuong: I just noticed the small note about INLINE at the very end of the second post :) 15:11:56 sefe [~chebastia@c-a771e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:12:46 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-a771e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:12:48 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-dtadkduxrilrqblb] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:16:21 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:17:00 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-nzcigeolvdhurcmt] has joined #lisp 15:17:55 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:57 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 15:19:38 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:21:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:21:55 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.215.72] has joined #lisp 15:22:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 *Fare* wants to remove the fifo part of fare-utils, now that lil has better fifo queues 15:24:42 -!- sefe [~chebastia@c-a771e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 15:25:00 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 15:25:06 no one seems to be using it in quicklisp, so I'm going to do it. 15:25:36 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-nzcigeolvdhurcmt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:26:30 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:49 natechan [~natechan@108-202-101-149.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:04 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 15:31:30 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-thcxbdqtrqaefcis] has joined #lisp 15:34:35 sayara_ [~sayara3@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 15:34:57 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:15 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-thcxbdqtrqaefcis] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:41:52 Fare: well, users (applications) are not necessarily in quicklisp 15:42:09 ogamita, but how am I to know? 15:42:11 It was this beast http://paste.lisp.org/display/135859 15:42:21 simple test case 15:42:35 Fare: the only way is to remove it and wait for users to cry. 15:42:42 that's what I've done 15:43:04 the queues in lil are much nicer than those that were in fare-utils, anyway 15:43:14 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 15:43:16 nan_: try :initial-element in your make-array 15:43:46 that's the advantage of having a nice framework... it gives you bells and whistles for free that you wouldn't have bothered writing otherwise. 15:43:55 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:58 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fewnwzonayxaadlf] has joined #lisp 15:44:21 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:23 nan_: none of 0, 1 or 2 are single-float. 15:44:25 H4ns: it didn't make a difference 15:44:31 *sellout-* has to dig more into interface-passing style when he has a chance. 15:45:16 pkhuong: i know they are not, i am trying to debug it, this is a simplified case, my point is debug information not useful 15:45:21 I'm writing all Haskell these days, and really wanting some similar stuff for CL. 15:46:09 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 15:46:13 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:46:19 (and in this case, I am using the queues in OO style, though I wrote them in IPS) 15:46:41 (that's the power of automatic wrappers) 15:46:59 sellout-, IPS does feel a bit like Haskell type-classes 15:47:04 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 15:47:10 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:47:34 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 15:47:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:47:52 My backtrace shows ((LAMBDA (Z) :IN TEST) 3) at the top. if I add a high debug optimization level, I get the exact offending form as well. 15:48:09 pkhuong: compiler? 15:48:13 -!- arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-196-189.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:48:18 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:48:43 nan_: SBCL 1.0.57.nearly-58 15:49:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:50:00 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fewnwzonayxaadlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:50:33 i got sbcl 1.1.4 and i got only 3 frames in backtrace and the 3rd one is foreign funcall, this is a clean image 15:51:32 *|3b|* gets good backtrace from 1.1.3.something and 1.1.5.something 15:52:25 <|3b|> are you using sbcl binary from sbcl.org, from distro, or did you build it yourself? 15:52:54 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fvzookdgpdynnmve] has joined #lisp 15:53:00 *sykopomp* wonders if this is the Arch Linux bug rearing its head again. 15:53:05 |3b|: i am using archlinux sbcl package, i didn't build my own 15:53:08 *|3b|* was wondering that too 15:53:09 same on 1.1.5.X as well. distros have been known to mess up backtraces, trying to speed hole SBCL up. 15:53:11 dingdingding 15:53:13 hahaa 15:53:34 Come on people. It can't be that hard to fix. :( 15:53:44 <|3b|> this is why distro packages are not supported on #lisp :/ 15:53:50 pkkm [~pawel@79.184.83.155] has joined #lisp 15:53:59 should i build my own then? 15:54:00 it's been *years* 15:54:07 <|3b|> sykopomp: was trivial to fix last time i looked, dunno if they fixed it and broke it again or just never fixed it 15:54:17 <|3b|> nan_: complain to your distro or build your own 15:54:20 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:54:31 |3b|: Use ABS and just get rid of all their patches/flags? 15:54:49 well at least finally i know the problem... and this time it is not me! *dances 15:55:30 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:30 -!- varjag_ is now known as varjag 15:55:36 sshirokov: yes there is sbcl-git abs version, i'll try that one, thanks all! 15:55:44 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-246-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:58 <|3b|> actually, 'complain to your distro /and/ build your own' is probably even better 15:56:06 how do distros mess up backtraces? 15:56:27 <|3b|> building with wrong C flags, rebuilding image with --disable-debugger, etc 15:56:29 by compiling sbcl itself with non-standard optimization settings? 15:57:23 <|3b|> now that i think about it, last one i looked at was the disable-debugger one, so this is probably a new problem 15:58:05 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0F14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:22 |3b|: maybe this is the reason i had troubles debugging sbcl (cffi) 15:58:32 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fvzookdgpdynnmve] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:59:28 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:02:43 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:59 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-okyitzqnuaubpunx] has joined #lisp 16:03:15 perhaps we should make a bigger issue of having a moron package sbcl for arch linux 16:03:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:34 or someone, for that matter, should do that :-) 16:04:41 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:05:28 ikki [~ikki@187.208.215.72] has joined #lisp 16:05:43 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:06:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:11 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 16:07:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:07:31 woah and here i was thinking it is either me or the sbcl... https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=150511 16:10:49 -!- sayara_ [~sayara3@82.117.199.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:20 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 16:12:33 arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-196-189.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 16:12:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:15:06 strange 16:16:14 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:39 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 16:18:21 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:19:23 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 16:19:36 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:17 MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:21:39 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has joined #lisp 16:22:11 there it is, working as expected. thanks all! pkhuong we still have a telepath in channel, sykopomp :) 16:23:12 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-okyitzqnuaubpunx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:23:46 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:23:51 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:25:18 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:27 i got to say this channel is special, usually when i ask a question somewhere all i get is nonsense and never answers, here i actually have answers.. solutions. 16:25:40 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 16:25:42 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:26:20 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 16:27:15 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has joined #lisp 16:30:05 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 16:31:40 it is special, global, and dynamic 16:32:18 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:34:36 -!- arrdem_x11 [~arrdem@wireless-198-213-196-189.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:41 <... crickets ...> 16:38:19 Xach: and they call my jokes terrible 16:38:51 and has earmuffs 16:38:57 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:39:16 Good morning all. 16:41:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:41:33 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:42:43 if you want to add anything it is time! https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=159228 16:42:46 So, last night I found an example of using MAKE-LOAD-FORM in conjunction with DEFCONSTANT, but the public copy was in a git repository on clnet, and I can't seem to find the gitweb anymore... 16:42:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:46:47 ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.129] has joined #lisp 16:53:06 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:53:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:54:50 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:55:13 jarmond` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:56:21 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-lhypxpvovfvtntxx] has joined #lisp 16:56:32 -!- natechan [~natechan@108-202-101-149.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 16:56:42 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.34.105.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:57:46 -!- jarmond [~user@93.96.213.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:00:27 jarmond`` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:00:46 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:30 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-lhypxpvovfvtntxx] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:04:09 -!- jarmond` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:16 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 17:05:33 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07:59 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:10:02 Ah, another evening of failed optimizations; I took the CPU time from 16s to .9s but the wall-clock time went from 18s to 24s 17:12:00 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:13:15 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:16:15 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0F14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:12 -!- jarmond`` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:45 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:21:25 Hahaha, Fare's announcements with randomized signatures always look vaguely threatening 17:21:26 http://cl.ly/image/2s383n1w3D1b 17:21:32 how did that happen? less parallelism? more kernel calls? paging? 17:22:00 (combined with gmail's duplicate content detection, of course) (: 17:22:01 antifuchs, lol. 17:22:17 so glad I'm not a suicidal terrorist! 17:22:21 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:44 antifuchs, I made several passes at refactoring asdf and poiu, and every time, I found something you had done in poiu that I didn't understand at first. 17:22:57 now it's all rewritten, but hey, hats off. 17:24:08 thanks for the kind words ^.^ 17:24:29 I'm really happy it made it this long (and that the ideas behind it are still useful today) (: 17:25:06 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:24 Fare: I actually fixed the issue that made the wall-clock time go up now, and it's only marginally faster; turns out it was IO bound the whole time, and I just happened to uneccessarily heating up the room 17:26:06 antifuchs, any lisp at your current $job? 17:26:13 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 17:26:49 when will asdf contain all four-letter monotonic (with respect to horizontal direction) qwerty chords? 17:27:22 Quadrescence, working on it. 17:27:54 Hi! If I'm invoking a macro and need to pass it some variables, but it is not evaluating them (i.e. treating them as quoted), what should I do? 17:28:00 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.52] has joined #lisp 17:28:13 tigranes, reconsider your understanding of macros 17:28:19 tigranes, the wrong answer is probably eval 17:28:29 Quadrescence: You're no doubt right 17:28:38 (I don't mean that negatively.) 17:28:53 tigranes, what are you ACTUALLY trying to do? 17:29:55 tigranes: macros don't evaluate their arguments, but they may generate code that will evaluate their arguments 17:30:40 I'm trying to use UNIX-OPTIONS:WITH-CLI-OPTIONS and generate some parts of the command line options. 17:32:04 I recommend CLON (or else command-line-arguments) for command-line-argument processing. 17:32:13 where is this unix-options from? 17:32:28 http://www.cliki.net/unix-options 17:32:28 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:32:31 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD1E6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:59 CLON seemed much too complex for what I'm trying to do 17:35:21 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-zcodujmnipmqqztg] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 17:38:01 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:38:13 I will take a look at command-line-arguments, though. Thanks for the tip. 17:39:07 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-206-149-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:39:12 Fare: is CLON still sbcl only? 17:39:56 jasom: I use it on CCL. 17:40:26 sellout-: good to know; I use ccl if I'm going to make a unixy program since startup time is so much faster 17:40:27 ASau [~user@46.115.60.24] has joined #lisp 17:42:10 I'd be pretty surprised if the difference in startup time was more than a few milliseconds. 17:42:13 CLON now supports pretty much everything. 17:42:22 Compile, loading fasls, on the other hand... 17:42:37 Xach: last time I benchmarked it, starting from a saved memory image was 5-10x faster on ccl 17:43:18 on the other hand, dumping an image is much slower on ccl 17:43:42 Xach: there may have been some improvements since then; this would have been 1.6 and 1.0.50 or so 17:44:24 jarmond`` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:45:35 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-93-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:45:40 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:45:41 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:32 -!- wc [~a@173.254.255.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:47:09 jasom: there have been improvements 17:47:38 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/557357 e.g. 17:50:01 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.55] has joined #lisp 17:51:26 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:53:01 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-dmhqhpfdduuwyzhk] has joined #lisp 17:53:25 dcorking [~dcorking@109.176.203.125] has joined #lisp 17:54:12 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:50 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:58:06 wc [~a@173.254.255.83] has joined #lisp 18:00:36 natechan [~natechan@108-202-101-149.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:15 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1-dev] 18:02:33 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:02:58 -3 18:03:03 er wrong window 18:03:10 ls 18:05:03 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.215.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:50 -!- plantseeker [~Plantseek@77.240.63.97] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:07:12 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:42 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.60.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:13:21 -!- jarmond`` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:13:59 Fare: most of our stuff at Stripe is written in ruby, but we have a bit of clojure here (: 18:14:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:14:44 antifuchs: Are you using a JVM Ruby, or are is it just isolated tools in Clojure? 18:14:54 the latter for now (: 18:14:56 -are 18:15:17 we run the regular mri ruby, for predictability/startup speed (: 18:15:19 is lisp an acceptable ruby? 18:15:25 hahaha 18:15:33 ruby certainly isn't an acceptable lisp (: 18:15:33 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:16:04 so what's missing in lisp so far that makes ruby preferrable in this case? 18:16:24 nothing was missing - the thing was started in ruby, and carries on to this day (: 18:16:39 it's possible to write good&readable ruby code, so nobody feels the pain very much 18:16:48 ot 18:16:49 MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:57 right (: 18:17:06 *it's also possible to invest too much magic, like DHH 18:17:10 antifuchs: But it was arguably started by Lisp guys, so it must have been missing something  large enough employee base? Certain libraries? 18:17:18 antifuchs: that was a hilarious typo on my side, actually ^^; 18:17:50 ASau [~user@46.115.60.24] has joined #lisp 18:17:50 p_l: I was like "wow, p_l certainly channeled the jerky #lisp aura there" 18:17:54 sellout-: I think mostly, appeal to developers & FUD over ability to grow very quickly (: 18:17:59 But perhaps Patrick is a better person to pester about that ;) 18:18:06 p_l: ((: 18:18:24 sykopomp: I am not exactly fast to scream "OT!" at people because it would be a bit like pot calling kettle black 18:18:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:37 ;) 18:18:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:19:09 sellout-: it's hard enough to hire great people for this incredibly ambitious project as it is, and adding an unknown into the mix might have been too much (: 18:19:38 (that may have been a few too many superlatives, but heh) 18:19:50 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:54 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF509B4.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:57 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF509B4.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:10 antifuchs: Yeah, I'm not really questioning the decision  Patrick (and you, but you came in later) is someone I respect enough to figure that Id learn more about choosing languages from the exchange ;) 18:20:11 antifuchs: hmm... are there any lisp meetings in Bay Area? 18:20:19 p_l: yes! 18:20:29 wheeee! 18:20:38 sweet 18:20:49 p_l: there's bunch of lispers around, and a lot of new clojure hackers too (: 18:20:57 sellout-: haha, no worries 18:20:59 *p_l* is currently waiting to find out if there will be an on-site interview, or if they got bored of me ;) 18:21:29 sellout-: I wonder about the same thing from time to time, and given all things in the past, I must conclude that rb was the right choice for where we are right now (: 18:21:47 p_l: I've got my fingers crossed, or I'm holding my thumbs  or whatever the appropriate idiom is  for you. 18:21:47 p_l: where are you applying to? 18:21:59 antifuchs: Google Mountain View :) 18:22:00 crossing thumbs ((: 18:22:02 ohoho! 18:22:21 (and it's holding thumbs in polish ;)) 18:22:23 that sounds great (: 18:22:44 p_l: Ok, figured it might be (same in Slovak). 18:22:49 antifuchs: yeah, but a bit stressful - they're doing it quick because of H-1B timeline 18:22:55 I may or may not happen upon that area in the near future. 18:23:01 p_l: how long has the process been so far? 18:23:25 sykopomp: it started on thursday properly, and I got the email maybe a day or two earlier 18:23:29 right, H1 is stressful 18:23:32 but worth it ((: 18:23:43 it *has* to finish fully by 1st April (that is, everything including wage) 18:23:55 (unless you can get an O1, at which point you better append "#humblebrag" to all your tweets) (: 18:24:09 imploding offers! 18:24:17 antifuchs: hahahaa 18:24:32 bay area seems really nice for lispers! 18:24:43 If I could pull O-1 I'd be thinking of declaring myself exterritorial ;) 18:24:44 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 18:27:23 meanwhile a friend of mine (HS classmate) decided to apply to a company in Palo Alto 18:27:48 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 18:27:58 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-246-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:17 PA and MV are pretty nice. you have to come visit us up in san francisco though (: 18:29:07 San Fran is neat 18:29:10 and pretty 18:30:05 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 18:30:15 antifuchs: I might live in frisco if I get in, so... 18:30:19 *drewc* recommend just north in Vancouver, BC ... but that is because I know where our $3b a month export of goes :) 18:30:20 haha 18:30:38 p_l: better start reading this then: http://whilstinsf.tumblr.com/post/24228453097/when-someone-calls-it-frisco ((: 18:31:12 drewc:  maple sirup? (: 18:31:16 drewc: it's actually not legal here. sort of. 18:31:18 the living situation in that area seems horribly expensive 18:31:28 antifuchs: actually someone else said that recently (i'm used to "SF" or full "San Francisco") 18:31:38 it is. you better be a very well-paid programmer (: 18:31:46 antifuchs: not quebec ... that is pricey out here as well 18:31:51 he might be referring to recent legalization in Seattle 18:31:53 p_l: Frisco is closer to Colorado than to California ;) 18:31:56 jasom: south of the border here, it is :) 18:31:57 hah 18:32:12 drewc: the federal government disagrees 18:32:36 antifuchs: maybe next time I'm down in that area we can have lunch or something :) 18:32:39 drag p_l along 18:32:46 jasom: yeah, well, luck would have it, they are chosen by the states ... 18:32:50 sykopomp: definitely! 18:32:54 if I get in, I'll be in CA by October 18:32:59 sweet 18:33:00 exciting (: 18:33:16 jasom: and even though they 'disagree', the civil war is long over ;) 18:33:32 more than one state-licensed grower in CA has been prosecuted by the feds, so I would expect the same to happen in colerado and washington 18:34:41 jasom: yeah, but I happen to live in a place where it is completely illegal ... yet our largest export is that plant and the police do not bust you for that ever. 18:35:58 *p_l* doesn't care except for the possible statistical data to prove whether pot causes conspiracy theory thinking and paranoia or not 18:36:28 jarmond`` [~user@137.205.238.154] has joined #lisp 18:36:28 *jasom* is paranoid and has never smoked pot 18:36:37 and we export to washington to CA folks,is who bring it down there... just saying that 'laws' have little to do with what is allowed ... heck. I took young drivers and learned how to go faster than the speed limit :) 18:36:40 jasom: smoking pot not required 18:36:40 there's a data point for you 18:36:49 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:29 k0001 [~k0001@host77.190-137-35.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:39:23 *drewc* just woke up fwiw, so is really just blabbing! :) 18:39:47 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:40:30 drewc: I'm waking for Mountain View to wake up ;) 18:40:34 (or rather, get to work) 18:40:35 but, fwiw, my wife worked for 10 years (just stopped in 2012) at : http://thecompassionclub.org/ 18:43:31 k0001_ [~k0001@host222.190-136-194.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:43:31 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host77.190-137-35.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:58 Bike [~Glossina@71-34-78-123.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:18 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:25 p_l: I almost moved there actually .. in 2008 when I was offered a job from . They wanted to pay for my living arrangements, but would not offer me a slip for my liveboard sailboat ... something that apparently not many do and they are not at all prepared for it... and insurance etc ... not fun for them and me it seems :) 18:44:36 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 18:44:56 drewc: I think you got them into "WTF" state ;) 18:45:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:46:38 /flyonthewall-in-HR "He lives on a what?" 18:47:08 p_l: yeah, I tend to do that ... a lisper who lives on a sailboat .... I am pretty unique in both those regards, and since I am not so easily 'bought', well, I usually go, or experience, "WTF" as well :) 18:47:28 drewc: did you mention the ferrets? :P 18:48:14 p_l: I probably did ... the laws of moving them are not so great, and they are/were actually not allowed in certain states etc :) 18:48:42 drewc: http://thesadprince.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/im_on_a_boat_with_hamlet.jpg <-- 18:48:45 I would probably fit with all my belongings in the airlifted shipping part of their relocation support 18:48:50 as I understand it, ferrets aren't allowed in california - however every pet store I know sells cages, food, toys, and books about them 18:49:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.171.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:49:48 drewc, you could have had your wife make you pay rent 18:49:49 I hadn't seen people openly smoking pot in public since college, until I went to san fran. 18:50:08 whartung: they are illegal in a lot of places ... but laws have little to do with what is 'allowed', as we recently talked about :P 18:50:17 si 18:50:24 *p_l* never seen someone smoking pot openly, even in Amsterdam 18:50:32 lol 18:50:46 you mustn't have been paying attention than 18:50:59 surrounder: RLD was more interesting? 18:51:00 p_l: never been to a rock concert I take it, much less a Grateful Dead show lol 18:51:12 whartung: not much for them, I guess :) 18:51:12 RLD ? 18:51:15 well, rock concerts are a different thing 18:51:26 surrounder: Red Lights District :) 18:51:31 walking around in downtown in the evening along main streets is another story 18:51:32 p_l: when I moved to BC about 10 years ago, all my belongings were a duffle bag and a guitar... 10 years later, and it seems I did 'ok'. 18:51:35 ah, check ;0 18:52:03 breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 18:52:38 I was at a show once, it was at an outdoor amphitheater, and the usher was trying to get this guy to put his joint out. The guy was pointing around at others, "whats the big deal", etc. etc. The problem wasn't the joint per se, it's that he was in a "no smoking" section. 18:53:00 har har -- a no smoking section at a rock concertthat was a scream 18:53:02 lol 18:53:11 oh, speaking of ... common-lisp.net and http://alpha.common-lisp.net/news/2013/03/05_the-server-must-move.html 18:53:24 splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:53:25 morning 18:53:46 p_l: speaking of OT... :P 18:53:54 hahahaha 18:54:15 well, the new server is in Amsterdam ... 18:55:33 and the 'donations' are handled by the "http://www.cl-foundation.org/" which is based in the Netherlands ... 18:55:57 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:55:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:56:10 the one from ECLM'11? 18:56:23 So, somehow, on topic for our off topic chat ... which means (= off on) ! :) 18:56:56 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.175.242] has quit [Quit: ZZzz..] 18:56:57 "the Foundation is active in sponsorship and financial administration for the 2013 European Common Lisp Meeting scheduled to take place June 2, 2013 in Madrid." 18:57:08 eclm'13! :) 18:57:09 *Xach* is going to that meeting! 18:57:22 i'm missing it out, again 18:57:32 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:57:35 but if I do get the job, I'm going to next one :) 18:58:01 Xach: I am trying to make it actually ... just running short on funds atm.... and have never been ... but really just running short of funds :) 18:58:23 drewc: i hear you. if i didn't have a corporate tailwind i'd stay home too. 18:58:46 Xach: Taking the fam? 18:59:51 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:05 who's going to ELS? 19:00:34 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:00:38 *sellout-* _might_ be hitting them up  still have to discuss more with work & family. 19:00:47 Xach: the last time I flew, and the time before that, and the time before that, (times many), was payed for by a company in Boston ... and in fact, some of those were the same company that is tailwinding you :) 19:01:48 I want to pay for my own, via my new 'common-lisp.net' company ... just to have an excuse :P 19:02:31 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:44 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:36 sellout-1 [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 19:04:43 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:44 -!- breakds [~breakds@wifi-116.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:06:23 sellout-1: a small bit of it 19:06:23 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:43 Xach: Heh  leaving the kids with grandparents? 19:06:51 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 19:06:59 Partly, yeah 19:07:03 If I go, D and V will likely be there as well. 19:07:04 nan_: I think it makes sense to add that it is a configuration error on the part of the mantainer of the arch package. 19:07:13 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 19:07:38 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest20135 19:09:09 *drewc* is thinking these is likely not a computer company that will pay for his trip from here to Maui ... because it will likely take a month and, though costs little money, is still a month 'off' of work. 19:11:34 -!- Guest20135 is now known as PuercoPop` 19:11:57 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 19:12:42 doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has joined #lisp 19:16:27 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 19:18:20 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:21:30 -!- sellout [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:21:34 I'm useing the sbcl implementation, do you guys know how to find what caused this error? debugger invoked on a TYPE-ERROR: 19:21:35 The value 0 19:21:35 is not of type 19:21:35 (OR (SINGLE-FLOAT (0.0)) (DOUBLE-FLOAT (0.0d0)) (INTEGER 1)) 19:21:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:49 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:22:38 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:07 well, that's correct 19:23:10 paste the code? 19:23:57 it looks like you passed 0 to something that wanted a positive scalar, basically 19:25:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:24 use paste.lisp.org/net 19:25:27 the code is 600 lines and that error only happens occasionally 19:25:49 post the stacktrace? 19:25:51 doesthiswork: compile with debug 3 and use v in the debugger. 19:26:04 1: (SB-KERNEL:INTERNAL-ERROR 19:26:05 #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X0016F000) 19:26:06 #) 19:26:06 2: ("foreign function: call_into_lisp") 19:26:06 3: ("foreign function: funcall2") 19:26:06 4: ("foreign function: interrupt_internal_error") 19:26:06 5: ("foreign function: signal_emulation_wrapper") 19:26:06 6: ("foreign function: stack_allocation_recover") 19:26:14 ok I'll compile with debug 3 19:26:28 -!- natechan [~natechan@108-202-101-149.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 19:26:33 doesthiswork: please don't copypaste code into the channel. Use http://paste.lisp.org 19:26:58 Are you using archlinux? 19:26:59 ok 19:27:06 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-dmhqhpfdduuwyzhk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:27:09 sepi [~user@mancini.lu] has joined #lisp 19:27:12 no mac osx 19:27:34 -!- splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:28:13 sdemarre [~serge@50.93-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:28:13 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:28:38 -!- dcorking [~dcorking@109.176.203.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:33 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:36 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 19:33:18 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@188.168.245.23] has joined #lisp 19:33:37 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:37:18 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-93-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:40:21 *redline6561* needs to find a company to send him to ELS 19:40:35 natechan [~natechan@216.235.140.182] has joined #lisp 19:40:40 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-210-120-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 19:41:02 and/or eclm 19:42:57 rubenrubz [~rubenrubz@pool-71-108-74-138.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:45 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@188.168.245.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:42 normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-99-35-126-246.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:07 redline6561: are you a freelancer ? 19:51:50 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-138-29-106.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:52:34 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:53:15 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:55:24 fe[nl]ix: I'm voluntarily unemployed as of a week ago. 19:55:38 redline6561: congratulations 19:55:56 Thanks.) It's been great fun so far. Lots of time to hack! :) 19:56:48 funemployment! 19:57:16 hacking is fun, but I'm a big fan of eating, personally... 19:57:29 so, I'm flying to london ;) 19:57:33 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:36 p_l: \o/ 19:57:43 won't your arms get tired? /rimshot 19:59:30 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1222-84.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:01:46 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.24] has joined #lisp 20:01:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.24] has quit [Changing host] 20:01:46 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:02:34 whartung: I am not the hamster spinning the propeller/fan ;> 20:03:17 I thought the classic infrastructure there was gerbils on heavy amphetamines? 20:05:10 squirrels and bath salts. 20:06:04 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:06:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-118.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:39 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-210-120-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:08:13 redline6561: !!? 20:08:20 *drewc* has to scroll up to see what the last three were chatting about ... 20:09:01 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-syytllqbymkqmcqn] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:28 .oO(Look up.. Look waaaay up.) 20:09:46 -!- jarmond`` [~user@137.205.238.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:10:28 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:10:59 -!- billstclair is now known as wws 20:11:21 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13:03 ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.214] has joined #lisp 20:13:30 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host222.190-136-194.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:15:11 zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-wkycconiduhgcpgh] has joined #lisp 20:15:18 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 20:16:00 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:00 ghast [~user@host204.190-139-61.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:19:18 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29:35 k0001 [~k0001@host66.190-138-106.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 20:32:15 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:25 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:47 -!- _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:05 -!- __main__ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:34:28 _main_ [~main@c-67-180-22-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:36:50 Guest34150 [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 20:38:26 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 20:40:25 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-horoosjkpyqmaqxo] has joined #lisp 20:40:27 -!- Guest34150 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:47 Guest34150 [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 20:41:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-176.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:42:35 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: panic] 20:48:35 -!- Guest34150 [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:05 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:57 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.215.72] has joined #lisp 20:53:37 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-99-35-126-246.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:59:09 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host66.190-138-106.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:46 jarmond`` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:59:47 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:04:45 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:07:12 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:15 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:07:36 AeroNotix [~xeno@abnz120.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:07:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:08:37 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:12:28 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:13:23 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:20:23 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD1E6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:43 -!- knob [~anon@76.76.202.244] has quit [] 21:21:42 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.215.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:23:42 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.215.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:27:56 samm [~samm@212.91.105.133] has joined #lisp 21:29:59 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has left #lisp 21:33:01 ikki [~ikki@187.208.215.72] has joined #lisp 21:33:05 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@188.250.121.78] has joined #lisp 21:34:30 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:49 brandonz [~brandon@74-95-6-5-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:23 -!- pkkm [~pawel@79.184.83.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:40:23 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:40 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-71-163-43-88.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:47:55 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:51:19 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:15 Fare: having a weird problem with inferior-shell. It's barfing on essentially any output from pygmentize. Maybe control characters are throwing it off. 21:58:00 marcux [~marco@177.32.180.211] has joined #lisp 22:00:14 pygmentize? 22:00:26 It's a python syntax highlighting lib. 22:00:30 are you passing a proper :external-format ? 22:00:44 which output processor are you using? 22:01:03 what error do you get? 22:01:06 Good question. I'll double check. this is off git head (run/ss "foo" :show t) 22:01:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@50.93-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:48 run/ss reads into a string and strips the final line-ending if any 22:01:57 is that what you want? 22:02:30 Ah, you were right. Runs fine in terminal sbcl, not in SLIME. 22:02:34 My apologies. 22:02:47 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03:13 btw, regarding inlined defuns in file compilation - I was thinking of modifying a CL compiler to make it save debug information about where a function got inlined, and thus (if needed) do a "reverse dependencies" kind of recompilation if an inlined function got redefined 22:03:29 what is wrong with SLIME? 22:03:40 My external-format settings are screwed up somewhere, I'm assuming. 22:03:51 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:14 or the program is trying to accept its /dev/tty for some settings, and is failing on SLIME 22:04:18 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:04:25 s/accept/access/ 22:07:05 -!- clox [~user@rrcs-208-125-109-116.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:07:29 Also possible. 22:07:40 Anyway, I'm unblocked. Sorry for the trouble. 22:10:04 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:17 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:15:33 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:16:10 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:04 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:52 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:22:19 Interesting performance bug in CCL: prediction data for indirect branch/calls is cached wrt the lower bits of the last byte in the jump/call instruction. If they still encode information in the return address by (mis)aligning the call instruction, that effectively reduces the size of the BTB. 22:22:36 Sna4x8 [~avejidah@c-98-208-43-235.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:27:30 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has joined #lisp 22:27:56 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.214] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:31:01 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 22:32:31 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:35:50 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 22:37:49 clim find-port 22:38:04 minion: Ping? 22:38:04 Ping: pong 22:38:07 Hrm. 22:38:12 Oh, right, specbot. 22:38:15 -!- brandonz [~brandon@74-95-6-5-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:20 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:29 No, specbot is here. WTF? 22:38:37 man ual 22:38:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ual. 22:38:38 clim is dead 22:38:52 Hunh. Any given reason why? 22:39:34 Old age and arteriosclerosis 22:40:30 Okay, guess I'll have to dig through my local resources then. 22:41:06 k0001 [~k0001@host106.186-108-167.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:41:48 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 22:42:13 there was no one to reply when I mentioned the deferred warnings found by sbcl 22:43:05 oh, not same clim, maybe 22:44:00 Yeah, I'm looking to double-check the return value from FIND-PORT to see if I screwed up my initial implementation. 22:44:18 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:31 And, yes, I did screw it up. I rather thought I did. 22:45:00 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:45:32 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:e4dc:f923:957:7b06] has joined #lisp 22:45:42 <|3b|> nyef: did you see beach put some clim code on github, last updated last dec? 22:45:55 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:41 |3b|: No, I did not. I put some CLIM code on clnet maybe a month or so ago, but I can't find it now. 22:47:17 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:47:29 is anyone maintaining mcclim? 22:47:44 *|3b|* also notes sicl has a lot of activity lately, will have to look at that at some point 22:48:02 <|3b|> nyef: https://github.com/robert-strandh/CLIMatis 22:48:43 Ah, right. I saw an earlier version of this, I think. 22:49:01 <|3b|> yeah, think he talked about it while still on irc 22:49:22 is that a successor to McCLIM? Is it more advanced already? 22:50:11 <|3b|> i think it was more of an experiment to replace/update CLIM in general 22:50:36 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.179.208] has joined #lisp 22:51:24 -!- zophy [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-wkycconiduhgcpgh] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:51:35 Anyway, I finally got unstuck again on NQ-CLIM. Figured out how to get unstuck last weekend, and finally had enough spare bandwidth today to make some forward progress. 22:53:29 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat1.scc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:54:33 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.23.126.44] has joined #lisp 22:54:46 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:18 I'm hoping to be able to get a window on the screen and showing something with only a minimum of direct access to CLX, other than the event handling, soonish. (-: 22:57:07 does clx use xlib or xcb these days? 22:57:10 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:57:13 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.201.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:57:13 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 22:59:08 Fare: nope 22:59:39 Fare: is there a way to programmatically inspect dependency list of an ASDF system? 22:59:48 yes 22:59:50 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:59 what do you to find? 23:00:17 like this: (asdf:component-load-dependencies (asdf:find-system :clunit-api)) ??? 23:00:17 and it's supported starting with asdf3 23:00:29 yes 23:00:30 only asdf3? 23:00:38 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:13 is there an api for this working in both asdf2 and 3? 23:01:24 well, depending on which information you're looking for and how old an asdf2 you're trying to support, there may or may not be support 23:01:39 component-load-dependencies should work with recent asdf2's too 23:01:54 I want to detect, if cl-num-utils-test depends on clunit or on lift 23:02:30 it.e what test framework is used by cl-num-utils-test, becaseu cl-num-utils-test switched recently 23:02:31 Isn't CLX still just talking wire protocol directly? 23:02:49 it is 23:02:56 so I want to choose dynamically 23:04:34 antonv: direct dependencies only, or also indirect dependencies? 23:04:44 direct only 23:04:47 I use this: (member "lift" (asdf:component-load-dependencies (asdf:find-system :cl-num-utils-tests)) :test #'string-equal) 23:05:16 for indirect dependencies, you need asdf3 and its required-components function 23:05:59 fortunately only direct needed 23:06:03 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:06:26 what about (:version :lift "2.4") or (:feature :foo :lift) dependencies? 23:08:52 cl-num-utils fortunately use just :depends (:clunit) in it's .asd file 23:08:56 you could loop over the former and use resolve-dependency-spec 23:09:13 to be 100% correct 23:09:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:10:25 assuming of course no one uses defmethod component-depends-on to add components 23:10:36 or cheats with a load-system in a perform 23:10:49 and don't forget the defsystem-depends-on 23:11:52 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:01 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:14:16 what resolve-dependency-spec returns? 23:14:18 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91.157.48.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:14:28 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:15:35 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:16:17 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:16:36 I see, component instance 23:16:41 ok, thanks 23:16:50 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e01e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:08 <|3b|> should cffi:expand-to-foreign methods make any effort to avoid multiple evaluation of the argument in the expansion? 23:19:40 yes 23:19:56 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:20:35 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:15 <|3b|> any reason defcenum doesn't define an expand-to-foreign method? 23:21:31 I don't know 23:23:01 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.40] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:23:44 Fare: component-load-dependencies turns is not external in asdf2 23:26:46 no it's not, but is defined in 2.26, innit? 23:27:15 resolve-dependency-spec can return NIL, too. 23:27:31 -!- jarmond`` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:28:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-159-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:29:04 does anyone use lisp with microcontrollers because C makes me sick. 23:30:11 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:30:38 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-75.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:03 brandonz [~brandon@206.169.144.70] has joined #lisp 23:31:19 rubenrubz: what do you call microcontroller? 23:31:25 memory, does it have OS 23:31:52 Isn't there a Scheme environment for PIC? 23:31:59 _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:59 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-108-33-26-144.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:31:59 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:32:04 rubenrubz: I've not run common lisp on a microcontroller, but I've run other lisp-like languages on one 23:32:10 like arduino. I am a noobie so forgive me. 23:32:47 nyef: PICBIT? It's fun. 23:33:06 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:09 I've used personal computers with less power than an arduino. I suspect that several people here have. (-: 23:33:37 so have I 23:33:50 I'll look into PicBit. Is their any other Lisp Like? Thanks. : ) 23:33:51 OKI ISLisp is alright (~300K of ROM IIRC) 23:33:59 robot-be` [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:02 haven't run it on an arduino though 23:34:45 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg_] 23:34:49 sambio_ [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 23:35:29 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:43 I have a few arduino boards, but for now I'm happy enough with using C. Although I've had a couple of project ideas that would require working in assembly simply to get the timing tight enough. 23:36:18 Fare: in 2.26 it is internal. But I can agree to internal. How about pre 2.26, is there such API? 23:36:26 nyef: drewc has something for programming them from C. at least, he indicated something of the likes some time ago 23:36:29 Thanks alot. I appreciate the help. 23:36:39 kyle_ [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:46 nyef: that was from lisp, obviously. i guess you have something to program them from C :P 23:36:51 I didn't jump on the arduino bandwagon, since I was using Z8s and after that ARMs were so cheap I never saw the point of arduino 23:37:03 -!- kyle_ is now known as Guest97198 23:37:06 jasom: lower power consumption could be one... 23:37:08 k0001_ [~k0001@host145.190-224-55.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:37:21 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:27 I have arduinos as well, and C is how they are used, and CFFI is the bridge kinda sorta ... it have been a while 23:37:40 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:37:51 drewc: didn't you generate the C from common lisp? 23:38:02 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:57 Heh. I remember learning Z8 assembly... and finding errors in the manual, and some of the stupid tricks we used for various things. 23:38:59 yeah, I did. That is quite easy, actually, sexp syntax for C with macros :) 23:39:23 But an arduino is easier to get ahold of than a Z8 these days, and I'm nowhere near being ready to work with SMT components... 23:39:46 nyef: QFPs aren't too bad; BGAs are impossible 23:40:15 jasom: Toaster-oven reflow station? 23:40:18 nyef: if you have soldermask, you just do a whole line of solder down each edge and then use braid to wick up the excess 23:40:46 (this is with lead/tin; RoHS solder is probably much harder since the temperatures are so much higher) 23:40:54 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host106.186-108-167.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:41:08 Sure, I've read and watched videos about some of the basic techniques for working with SMT, but I'm not really ready to try them. 23:41:44 I these days I am using a rasberry pi + gertboard ... and soon to use something similar yet cheaper : http://www.amazon.com/OEM-MK802-Android-4-0-Mini/dp/B008H3B736/ref=pd_sim_e_8 23:42:36 Ooh. Shiny. Do they have one of those in MIPS? 23:42:54 I figure that is perfect for my computer system on this boat... I will buy roughly 10 of different types and have a 'cloud' onboard. 23:44:02 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-246-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:19 they are all pretty much ARM based, because yeah, the design for the RPI 'stolen' and made by a lot of companies ... and things are cheap these days ... moores law is certainly interesting once you start getting older. 23:45:37 *jasom* didn't think anyone outside of telecom companies used MIPS anymore 23:45:53 that said, I have no idea what is out there, and I happen to live in the location where a lot of those are shipped to first... but yeah as jasom said :) 23:47:32 jasom: There's an under-maintained MIPS backend for SBCL. As an SBCL hacker, I have a bit of an interest in finding hardware to help in maintaining it. 23:47:42 <|3b|> google finds at least one mips android thing supposedly for $50 23:47:44 antonv: component-load-dependencies goes as far back as 2.000 23:47:59 good 23:48:37 |3b|: Yeah, there are a couple of such devices, mostly aimed at the china and india markets. 23:49:46 drewc: the A8 and A9 cpus of that same thing are on dealextreme, if the speed bump would matter 23:50:53 does ccl run on the rpi ? 23:50:59 madnificent: ohh ... link? 23:52:30 Fare: no idea actually, have not tried anything but ECL ... will try that out tonight as I just bought the new USB hub/mouse/keyboard for my 'clouf' yesterday and need something to try :) 23:52:31 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 23:52:51 http://dx.com/s/android.html?category=100100 23:54:33 drewc: If you're willing to do a bit of work on it, I can share my current SBCL ARM-port tree. 23:54:36 there seems to be a wide choice. we should start shipping CCL "keys" 23:54:55 H4ns demoed CCL writing to an rpi's framebuffer. 23:55:24 The value 79 is not of type SB-KERNEL:INSTANCE. 23:55:25 madnificent: damn ... the one i want : "Delivery: Item is temporarily sold out." 23:55:31 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-003-126.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:55:33 anyone know what that is? 23:56:01 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:56:02 nyef: I likely would like to indeed! 23:56:21 jasom: heap corruption, I'd guess. 23:56:47 It's at the point where call_into_c needs sorting out. 23:56:57 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:13 pkhuong: ohhh, that has me excited .. ccl and framebuffer ... mmmmm 23:57:16 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:58:06 nyef: well, in the future when I have some time after migrating cl-net, I will not at all mind spending time on that :) 23:58:10 I'm aware that if I'm to have any chance at sorting it out myself, I'll need a good few days of open time on my schedule, plus be actually motivated to work on it, and that combination just doesn't look immediately likely. 23:58:44 Right, speaking of the cl-net migration, are the user accounts and associated git repositories still available? 23:59:41 *|3b|* wonders if it would be worth trying to optimize cl-opengl function calls