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#raspberrypi-osdev 00:14:03 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:03 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:14:40 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:15 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:16 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:15:51 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:19 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:20 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:16:52 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:53 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:18:25 wheelsucker: is that a thing? 00:18:50 no it isn't 00:19:49 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:50 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[~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:59:00 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:59:15 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:16 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:03:09 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:11 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:14 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-123-62.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:08:56 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:46 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:17:15 -!- ludston [~ludston@CPE-124-183-245-170.lns13.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:18:21 -!- Guest86894 is now known as PuercoPo 01:18:26 -!- PuercoPo is now known as PuercoPoP 01:18:28 -!- PuercoPoP is now known as PuercoPop 01:19:18 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:27:40 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:36:30 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 01:39:09 seangrove [~user@75-59-238-133.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:21 danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has joined #lisp 01:43:08 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-24-6-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 01:43:14 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 01:43:27 -!- poindontcare [~user@c-69-181-139-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:44:21 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:48:51 -!- setmeaway [oosool3@118.45.149.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:55:17 -!- redim [~redim@241.red-79-156-39.staticip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:25 -!- cantcode is now known as banana_pee 02:01:16 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.28] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:03:21 -!- nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:05:02 -!- agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:10 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:05:19 cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.27.172] has joined #lisp 02:08:36 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:08:51 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:27 nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 02:11:47 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 02:12:01 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 02:14:28 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:07 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:32 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.38] has joined #lisp 02:25:07 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:26:15 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host62.186-125-150.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:28:07 k0001 [~k0001@host40.186-108-163.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:29:11 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:31:20 -!- seangrove [~user@75-59-238-133.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:32:07 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:47 wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-78-125.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:33:56 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:21 is anyone around here using lisp on any sort of shared or restricted hosting plan? if so, how do you have it working? 02:41:33 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-249-241.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Things never change, only rearrange.] 02:42:44 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 02:43:11 danlei` [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has joined #lisp 02:43:15 for web development to be specific (duh, me) 02:43:35 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:44:13 -!- danlei [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:47:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-156-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:48:48 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:53:18 -!- danlei` [~user@unaffiliated/danlei] has quit [Quit: Ein guter Abgang ziert die Übung.] 02:54:15 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:24 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:55:52 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:23 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 03:02:14 normanrichards [~normanric@ip-64-134-149-19.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:42 ohdude [~ohdude@cpe-98-30-68-34.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:04 -!- ohdude [~ohdude@cpe-98-30-68-34.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [] 03:07:56 casion: vps is less expensive than colocation and allows you to manage your own software (i.e. linode), otherwise I guess that it'd be possible to use plain CGI on normally php+mysql provider which also provides a shell to compile custom software 03:08:17 I think some rare providers offer lisp hosting but I wouldn't remember which 03:08:30 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:08:31 phadthai: currently I lack even the ability to use gcc to install libs of any sort at the moment :| 03:08:57 I managed to get sbcl going by just dropping in a binary, that's as far as I've managed 03:09:08 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:10:19 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.2] has joined #lisp 03:10:58 you could hire a sysadmin if necessary, but otherwise you might be able to yourself do it with some reading 03:11:34 agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:56 and some testing for experience, i.e. on a non-critical machine at first 03:12:18 it's not very difficult to setup a web server on a linux or bsd system at home in the lan at first 03:12:33 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:38 I do have a working environment going locally 03:12:56 definitely a good start 03:16:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:19:47 -!- rfgpfeif1er [~bob@blubberquark.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:04 rfgpfeiffer [~bob@blubberquark.de] has joined #lisp 03:20:08 casion: I would /query me , I host VMs and a significant number of lisp related things, and the prices are fairly decent. 03:20:17 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:24 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 03:20:24 *drewc* is not a spammer! :P 03:22:30 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:22:58 akovalen` [~user@95.73.55.208] has joined #lisp 03:23:02 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 03:23:55 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Client Quit] 03:25:12 sellout-1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:18 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:25:46 sklr_ [~clarkema@31-222-178-169.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:25:52 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 03:25:56 -!- akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:26:17 sepi [qn1yfwjtmt@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 03:26:23 rotty_ [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 03:26:28 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:03 but keep in mind, drewc killed the venerable lisp on lines 03:29:55 I _will_ revive it! 03:30:14 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has 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[~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:55:38 fasta [~xchat@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 03:58:26 RazWelles_ [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:00 -!- RazWelles [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02:44 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:06 hi. i'm finding that my sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die linux binaries keep trying to load libsdl-gfx, even though i do not anywhere include libsdl-gfx or invoke its functions. indeed the application works normally after choosing CONTINUE to get past the error about not finding libsdl-gfx 04:03:22 i do depend on libsdl and *-image *-ttf *-mixer 04:03:45 do any of those cause GFX to be required? 04:04:27 hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:07:18 maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 04:07:35 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:48 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 04:08:54 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@16.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:11:01 ur5us [~ur5us@16.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 04:11:15 dto: in C, none of those require libsdl-gfx, but it might be a dependency added by the lisp ffi layer you use 04:11:30 i use lispbuilder-sdl. it's not a big deal, i may actually start using it again anyway. 04:11:47 hmm I think gfx was required when I used it 04:12:21 btw phadthai its official, when my new lispgame is done, it's gonna have a general release on Desura 04:12:25 although I was surprised that some gfx-style functions were also reimplemented in lisp, so at least back then it was a mix of gfx and custom replacements 04:12:30 (free software, and free as in price, too) 04:12:44 ah i see. 04:13:54 fantasticsid [~user@216.240.135.190] has joined #lisp 04:14:34 dto: I'm not familiar with desura, but nice :) 04:15:08 it's a PC games portal, sort of like steam but not quite as large, but still big and FOSS-friendly 04:15:08 I've seen videos of some of your games at times 04:15:27 ok 04:15:37 phadthai: this is what i'll eventually release on desura: http://blocky.io/2x0ng.html 04:16:04 ok, I watched a video of that one very recently indeed 04:16:15 which you had linked here 04:16:30 ah, sorry for spam. 04:16:53 I didn't consider it spam heh 04:17:44 i spent a lot of time talking to various independent devs about it and desura seems like a pretty respectable place to put a game out. also, it'll be one-click download and play, instead of unzipping the file and navigating to the EXE :) 04:18:12 phadthai: you're welcome to try it out, let me know if you have any issues/feedback. 04:19:20 perhaps eventually; my systems run netbsd and the implementation I use is ecl but sbcl is also present... I've not really used quicklisp but I assume that with it it'd not be difficult to try 04:19:48 probably not. https://github.com/dto/blocky/blob/master/INSTALL 04:20:23 if you decide to test it out, let's move the discussion to #lispgames and i can help you out there. 04:21:04 i'll be back in a bit , 04:21:14 opengl works too fortunately so it'd probably work 04:21:15 thanks 04:21:26 okay yeah, ping me sometime 04:21:46 the only other real dependency is the SDL stuff 04:22:14 other than cffi+lispbuilder which is not currently there those are installed too 04:24:32 I once wrote notes for a possible Aztec (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztec_%28video_game%29) remake in lisp+sdl but I've not even started the project; will join #lispgames too if I eventually decide to work on that 04:26:39 wow 04:29:06 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 04:29:16 cool phadthai ! 04:29:38 I occasionally still play that in vice's x64 (c64 emulator) heh 04:31:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcDXlJN4ZwQ i recently saw Zone Ranger for the first time, wanna play it soon :) 04:31:54 -!- fantasticsid [~user@216.240.135.190] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:32:10 downloading the video to watch later 04:32:42 will be afk for a bit. was nice chatting with you phadthai 04:32:52 dnolen [~user@206.48.23.226] has joined #lisp 04:32:52 i'll keep y'all posted 04:33:04 cool, later 04:33:36 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:34:00 cheier [~user@c-98-251-147-85.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:37 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:35:47 -!- Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:38:44 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:40:56 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@ip-64-134-149-19.public.wayport.net] has quit [] 04:44:17 I know that I've said this before but I've implemented a VERY slow S-exp walking interpreter and I desperately need to speed this thing up or replace it with a byte-code compiler/interpreter. 04:44:48 It's driving me crazy because I'm trying to load/compile the ECL CLOS code and it is taking HOURS to load. 04:46:20 So... what do you want exactly? 04:46:30 Is it possible to somehow rewrite the S-exp code as I interpret it? For instance, I hit a macro -> expand it -> write the expanded macro back into the S-exp of the code? 04:47:36 Then macros would only expand once. 04:47:38 Uh, I suppose that depends on what you're interpreting from? 04:48:54 I read the code into Sexp's, I then walk the Sexp and check the head of each sexp and jump based on whether it is a special operator or a macro or a function. 04:49:37 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_.htm might be of interest if you need details on CL evaluation and compilation semantics 04:49:57 If it's a macro I could expand the macro and write the expanded code back into CAR of the Sexp with a head that is something like EXPANDED-MACRO followed by the expanded SEXP. 04:49:58 I guess it depends on the organization of your code. For example if it's just a usual walker, maybe you have in your tagbody interpreter something to divvy up the goto blocks and macroexpand all that before you get to looping 04:50:28 Or you could implement a cache scheme like that, sure. 04:50:38 Maybe not for every cons though. 04:51:21 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA04EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:51:35 So I am using the new ASDF which puts defsystem into asdf/defsystem package instead of plain asdf package, 04:51:59 i have a little utility which emits the .asd files for me, with a form like: 04:52:04 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:41 `(asdf:defsystem ,(something-to-make-my-system-name) :description "blah"  ) 04:52:58 and now the asdf:defsystem is coming out as asdf/defsystem:defsystem instead... 04:52:59 (sigh) - I'm just a bit depressed. I was trying to avoid having to write yet another CL compiler in C++ this time. 04:53:17 It's looking more and more like I just have to bite the bullet and do it. 04:53:19 drmeister: if you have a working interpreter by now you could write your new interpreter metacircularly :) 04:53:28 which makes the .asd file non backwards-compatible with slightly older asdf versions... 04:53:51 Bike: What does that mean? "write your new interpreter metacircularly"? 04:53:59 drmeister: as in, write it in CL. 04:54:17 because (symbol-package 'asdf:defsystem) --> # 04:54:37 Question is, what is the best way to get asdf:defsystem to print as asdf:defsystem ? 04:54:45 like for ECL, there's a minimal C-built compiler, then the rest is CL... or SBCL, which requires bootstrapping with another implementation or installation 04:55:05 when its home package is :asdf/defsystem and apparently it is now just re-exported from :asdf 04:55:07 Bike: I did that and wrote the compiler in CL. 04:55:10 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0A8C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:55:39 gendl: uh... maybe you could set up a pprint-dispatch for that symbol particularly, but that doesn't sound very nice... 04:55:56 phadthai: replicating that minimal C-built compiler in ECL would take me a few weeks. 04:56:16 drmeister: well I mean, if you have CL it wouldn't be that hard to write like, a quick macroexpand-all to run on code you're going to be eval-ing a lot 04:57:46 pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has joined #lisp 04:57:50 A macroexpand-all needs all of the macros and all of the functions that they require loaded into memory before you can macroexpand-all. I'm missing something fundamental here. 04:57:55 -!- pakchoi2 [~pakchoi2@202.107.197.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:30 no, i don't think you are, i just don't entirely understand your bootstrap process and am making bad guesses. 04:58:36 I understand the interpreter - it defers macroexpansion until the macro is encountered during evaluation. 04:58:57 I understand compilation - it macroexpands during compile time and never again after that. 04:59:10 well, evaluation doesn't /have/ to work like that, that's just the simplest way 04:59:14 I guess i don't understand a byte-code compiler that generates interpreted code. 04:59:46 there's not exactly a hard line between "compiled" and "interpreted" of course, you can do various sorts of preprocessing on code before "interpreting" it 05:01:20 The macro expansion is what's tripping me up. It appears to me that an interpreter has to macroexpand as it evaluates code - that is inherantly slow. How does ECL's bytecode compiler/interpreter deal with this? 05:01:38 It does not have to macroexpand as it evaluates. It's unspecified when macroexpansion happens. 05:01:45 And how often. 05:04:24 I mean, you could do like CCL and have eval be basically (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () ,form))) 05:04:27 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.109.180.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:04:31 It's also a boot-strapping problem. I've tried compiling each form in eval once my compiler is loaded. When I do this the compiler complains that functions are missing that appear to be loaded AFTER the form I've just read and am attempting to compile. 05:06:01 I've tried (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () ,form))) and it would work but it complains about missing SETF functions that appear to be loaded later. ECL deals with this by loading _everything_ into the system and then compiling everything. Then every definition is available for compilation. 05:06:32 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:06:40 <|3b|> compiling calls to functions that don't exist is conformant, as long as you don't actually try to evaluate the result until the functions exist 05:06:59 I could start rearranging the code but I've been loath to do that up until now. 05:07:40 |3b| Compiling calls to functions isn't the problem, it's compiling code that contains macros that call functions. 05:07:57 ludston [~ludston@CPE-124-183-245-170.lns13.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:08:14 <|3b|> yeah, expanding macros that call functions that don't exist is bad 05:08:44 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.182.127] has joined #lisp 05:09:04 -!- ludston [~ludston@CPE-124-183-245-170.lns13.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:09 EVAL-WHEN! 05:09:41 if every form in a file is being fully evaluated top to bottom eval-when shouldn't relaly matter 05:09:54 <|3b|> if you are trying to COMPILE code that assumes it has been LOADed already, then you probably need to do so, or fix the code 05:11:06 This only became a problem now that I'm trying to bootstrap the ECL CLOS code. It's when its setting up the standard classes and accessors. I didn't have this problem with the AMOP CLOSETTE code - that booted fine. 05:12:10 AMOP warns about this problem, bootstrapping CLOS is complicated. That's why I'm worried about messing with the order things are loaded. 05:15:11 The problem appears to be macro expansion. Doing it when I load each form is not compatible with the CLOS code I'm loading. 05:15:34 <|3b|> any file in particular you can point to? 05:15:39 are you sure? that would make the code nonconforming, macros can bbe expanded any number of times 05:16:16 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 05:16:51 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 05:17:50 <|3b|> Bike: can they be expanded (by the implementation, not editors or other tools) other than during evaluation or compilation? 05:17:55 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 05:18:28 I'm just recompiling my C++ code. Give me a few minutes. I'll set it up to (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () ,form))) each form as it is eval'd and tell you where it chokes and what it is missing. 05:18:59 <|3b|> actually, i guess if compiling all the time is conformant, then just LOADing could expand them 05:19:03 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:14 peccu1 [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:19:19 If I could compile each form as it was eval'd it would solve my problem. 05:19:44 <|3b|> not really that uncommon for implementation code to be technically nonconforming though, since it can make assumptions about the implementation (and usually has to, since the implementation might not be all the way loaded yet) 05:20:06 yroeht1 [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 05:20:22 <|3b|> drmeister: for most code you should be able to 05:20:32 |3b|: I dunno. I thought that there are no guarantees about when macros are expanded other than that compiled code doesn't and evaluated code works on expansions. 05:20:55 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.148.197.6] has joined #lisp 05:21:15 -!- lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:21:23 drewc_ [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 05:21:54 ur5us_ [~ur5us@16.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 05:22:46 -!- PECCU [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:22:48 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:22:54 -!- ur5us [~ur5us@16.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:23:01 teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.149] has joined #lisp 05:23:18 quasisan1 [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:24 lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.169] has joined #lisp 05:23:40 d2biG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 05:23:46 naryl1 [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 05:23:54 maxm-- [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 05:24:49 sepi_ [jpjrgrr9ru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 05:24:55 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:25:09 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 05:25:29 november [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 05:25:49 hiato_ [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:25:52 joshee [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 05:25:57 gensym_ [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 05:26:29 Currently I've got a sequence of about 60 CL source files that I load in a particular sequence to build the CL system. About 13 of them are my compiler and the other 47 are straight from ECL. 05:26:35 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:40 kyl_ [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has joined #lisp 05:26:41 The CLOS files are the last dozen and they are killing me. 05:26:51 -!- drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:03 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.197.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:03 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:03 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 05:27:03 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 05:27:20 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:20 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:20 -!- dRbiG [drbig@178.217.184.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:20 -!- gensym_ is now known as gensym 05:27:27 -!- wheelsucker [~user@ip68-8-180-107.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:32 -!- hiato [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- jaimef_ [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- sepi [qn1yfwjtmt@hcl-club.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- kyl [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@189.61.220.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:32 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27:33 -!- november is now known as n0vember 05:27:44 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:46 the loop2.lsp and format.lsp files take a few minutes to load because they run a lot of code to set up but that is nothing compared to the CLOS code which takes HOURS. 05:28:38 Whenever I Ctrl-C into the code it's running backquote expansion - which means macro-expansion. 05:31:34 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:41 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 05:31:54 Ok, here's an example: http://pastebin.com/6vwcXM1u 05:32:28 ISF_ [~ivan@189.61.220.66] has joined #lisp 05:33:01 It's compiling std-slot-value.lsp and it starts compiling SLOT-VALUE-SET and it chokes because there is no SETF function for SLOT-VALUE-USING-CLASS 05:33:27 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:30 Setf method. 05:33:35 Where's that method defined? 05:33:42 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:34:02 <|3b|> compiling calls to nonexistant functions is valid, even if they are named (setf foo) 05:34:55 -!- kyl_ is now known as kyl 05:35:34 <|3b|> and SETF should expand to a call to a (setf foo) function if it doesn't know any more specific expansion 05:36:40 Here is the order that I load/compile the modules clos/slotvalue 05:36:41 techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 05:36:50 Sorry - here http://pastebin.com/VJXzxEgN 05:37:27 Bike: yes, setf method. 05:37:34 *|3b|* thinks that looks like a compiler bug, trying to treat SETF functions differently from other functions 05:37:59 maxm--- [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:06 drmeister: What signals a "cannot find setf method" thing? 3b's right, everything has a setf expansion 05:38:13 <|3b|> (unless you fail to compile calls to other unknown functions, which would still be a bug) 05:38:37 (get-setf-expansion (list (gensym) 'x) => bla bla bla (FUNCALL #'(SETF #:G995) #:NEW996 #:X997) bla 05:38:48 -!- dnolen [~user@206.48.23.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:38:50 *extra close paren 05:39:13 (since slot-value-using-class is just a function the default expansion is probably what you want?) 05:39:13 -!- maxm-- [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:39:54 drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 05:39:59 Bike: I'm trying to figure out where "cannot find setf method" is being signaled. I don't think I wrote that in my C++ code or my compiler. SETF is completely handled by the ECL setf.lsp module. 05:40:39 Given that it's calling it a "setf method" maybe it's really old code... 05:43:16 -!- drewc_ [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:43:17 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:43:17 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:44:37 Nope, I'm wrong, it's my compiler code. It's in the compiler function CODEGEN-FUNCTION which generates code for the FUNCTION special operator. It must be trying to compile (FUNCTION (SETF SLOT-VALUE-USING-CLASS)). Here's the code http://pastebin.com/LPmZUGba 05:44:48 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 05:45:24 The "method" in "Could not find setf-method" doesn't mean anything. 05:45:46 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 05:47:55 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:47:55 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:47:55 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 05:48:04 <|3b|> yeah, that looks wrong, functions don't need to exist when you compile the call, just when you evaluate it 05:48:38 *|3b|* can't tell if it has the same problem with other functions or not 05:50:08 flip214_ [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 05:50:17 p_l_ [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 05:51:37 finnrobi_ [~robb@notlupus.info] has joined #lisp 05:52:25 agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:35 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:35 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:35 -!- finnrobi [~robb@notlupus.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:35 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:35 -!- igorw [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:35 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:52:35 -!- [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:35 -!- wyan [~wyan@ec2-54-246-94-212.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:36 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 05:52:36 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA04EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- smithzv_ [~smithzv@c-71-201-59-76.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- androcles [~Jeff@sporkula.ss.uci.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- nirman [uid10221@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjwbtxvdrnhfsdqj] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- jrockway [jrockway@itchy.jrock.us] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cuzezxdjcwyiezbi] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- scode [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:52:36 -!- cpc26 [cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:52:36 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@ubuntu/member/stokachu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:52:37 housel` [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 05:52:38 why do you check fdefinition for (setf foo) and not foo? 05:52:38 Bike: Which line? 05:52:38 14 05:52:38 Should I be looking for a function bound to FOO when the form it is compiling is (FUNCTION (SETF FOO))? 05:52:38 No, I mean... 05:52:38 for symbols you have (codegen-function-symbol-lookup result name-or-lambda env) and that's it. 05:52:38 Why don't you just have (codegen-function-setf-symbol-lookup result name-or-lambda env) for (setf foo)? 05:52:38 The value of name-or-lambda is '(SETF FOO) when it entered this function. 05:52:38 Right. 05:52:38 I mean, setf functions are just the same as other functions, maybe they're not defined as you compile and that's okay. 05:52:38 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:38 If I understand this code you check for (setf foo) functions being defined, for no reason. 05:52:38 Hang on, I have to think about what you are asking. 05:52:38 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:52:38 igorww [~igorw@li559-253.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:38 -!- igorww [~igorw@li559-253.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:52:38 igorww [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has joined #lisp 05:53:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:53:17 stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has joined #lisp 05:53:22 <|3b|> drmeister: the list (setf foo) is the name of the function 05:53:23 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 05:53:39 wyan [~wyan@ec2-54-246-94-212.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:41 <|3b|> you call that the same as you would call a function named by a symbol 05:54:23 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:02 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 05:56:05 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:56:23 <|3b|> in either case, it should (usually) find the function to call at runtime, so you can compile calls to functions that don't exist yet, or redefine the function being called 05:56:35 -!- akovalen` [~user@95.73.55.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:56:53 cpc26 [cpc26@pilot.trilug.org] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA04EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 nirman [uid10221@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sjwbtxvdrnhfsdqj] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 smithzv_ [~smithzv@c-71-201-59-76.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 C-Keen [cckeen@pestilenz.org] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 androcles [~Jeff@sporkula.ss.uci.edu] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.138] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 jrockway [jrockway@itchy.jrock.us] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 rvirding [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cuzezxdjcwyiezbi] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 scode [~scode@pollux.scode.org] has joined #lisp 05:56:53 fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 05:56:56 Are you asking why I have "(let ((setf-code (fdefinition name-or-lambda) ... and then don't use setf-code? You are correct, I should have commented it out with the (bformat and (break lines that follow it. (actually it needs some cleaning up). 05:57:24 drmeister: the code for when you're generating a call to a symbol like FOO just dumps IR referring to the IRized version of that symbol without caring about whether that function is actually defined or known yet. 05:57:38 drmeister: But when it's a call to a function named (SETF FOO) you error out if it's not yet known. 05:58:42 Bike: Ah! I think I'm starting to see the problem. 05:59:33 <|3b|> right, that IF and ERROR shouldn't be there 06:00:00 drmeister: so, if you have code like (defun foo (whatever) (setf (thing) whatever)) and then (defun (setf thing) ...) later, you'll error out while compiling FOO 06:00:01 That might be it! 06:00:26 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:01:46 mrdragons [~dummy@198.23.136.244] has joined #lisp 06:02:43 techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 06:02:54 ASau` [~user@46.115.44.40] has joined #lisp 06:03:00 Remember when I was on a few weeks ago and I didn't understand (setf XXX) function names. It was just after that that I put all this code in. Here's a more complete dump of the relevant code: http://pastebin.com/41AJb4Nw 06:04:38 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 06:04:38 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 06:04:42 right, well, the thing to remember is that setf function names work just the same as usual ones, and the functions aren't special except in that the setf macro may happen to expand to calls to ehm 06:04:52 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 06:05:16 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest58791 06:05:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.219] has joined #lisp 06:05:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.65.219] has quit [Changing host] 06:05:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:08:16 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:08:20 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:08:53 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.44.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:08:55 So when I compile the FUNCTION special operator it doesn't need the function to be available at compile time? I guess I knew that for regular symbol function names but forgot when I added support for (SETF fn). 06:09:12 Yeah, it doesn't. You can just generate a lookup. 06:09:41 which i think you do anyway, with the current state of the compiler.. 06:09:48 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-16-24.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:09:52 And I do that for setf functions. It's that erroneous test and error that is screwing me up! 06:09:58 -!- Guest58791 [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:10:18 <|3b|> in either case, check for a lexical binding first though 06:10:45 And it would only show up when the function wasn't defined at compile time and I attributed that to a function being invoked during macroexpansion at compile time. Tricky stuff. 06:10:57 |3b|: Thanks, I do. 06:11:17 That's what CLASSIFY-FUNCTION-LOOKUP does. 06:11:58 Ok, let me fix that puppy and see what it does. 06:13:54 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-21-209.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:14:33 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:56 Ok, now the codegen-function function reads: http://pastebin.com/MVeC3VLZ 06:15:10 It will take a few minutes to compile. 06:16:24 -!- lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:17:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:18:26 lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.169] has joined #lisp 06:22:14 You guys (or ladies - I have no idea) are amazing! Now it compiles through without complaints. 06:23:14 cool. 06:23:29 This probably means that I can compile in eval and power through this now. Thank you so much! 06:23:29 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:26 casion_ [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:52 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:25:12 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-74-224.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:25:56 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:27:16 -!- casion [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:27:16 -!- casion_ is now known as casion 06:29:18 This is awesome! I turned on compile-in-eval and it loaded the "std-accessors.lsp" file in a fraction of a second rather than the HOURS I've been suffering through these past few days. 06:29:28 very nice. 06:30:24 It crashed right after that with an "Illegal parse_lambda_list context[METHOD]" - but this is what I live for - debugging code with fast cycle times! 06:31:01 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 06:31:13 Glorious! Thank you Bike. Thank you |3b|. 06:31:18 :) 06:33:02 I probably have the most unsymmetrical interpreter/compiler in terms of speed in the history of Common Lisp. 06:34:11 Allrighty then - I'm off to hunt bugs. 06:35:52 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36:57 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:36:58 dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 06:38:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:40:52 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:50 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-49.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.47] has joined #lisp 07:02:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.78.47] has quit [Changing host] 07:02:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined 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[~pravinar@14.96.148.62] has joined #lisp 09:29:09 -!- pravinar [~pravinar@14.96.148.62] has left #lisp 09:29:45 -!- agumonkatdenning is now known as agumonkeys 09:31:30 wws [~billstcla@67.158.164.249] has joined #lisp 09:31:56 hello 09:33:25 -!- dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 09:34:12 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:34:40 -!- waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:39:05 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2025.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:42:30 (hello) 09:43:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-139.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:43:16 waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 09:50:11 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:54:11 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:43 francogrex [~user@109.134.219.237] has joined #lisp 10:06:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:07:14 hi 10:07:42 jil: hi 10:08:28 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:10:29 astertronistic [~astertron@ip70-181-235-122.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:50 I don't think that you've been properly introduced. 10:14:35 Zhivago, let's meet up and have coffee in san jose 10:14:53 It's a little out of my way. 10:15:10 i meant santa clara anyway 10:15:38 It isn't a continent that I visit often. 10:15:50 :( 10:15:59 the plot thickens 10:16:56 jarmond` [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:18:11 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:18:52 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 10:19:35 But I'll keep it in mind the next time I drop by. 10:20:00 -!- jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:20:03 -!- wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-120-249.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:18 :) 10:22:52 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 10:25:51 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.65] has joined #lisp 10:28:57 -!- setmeaway [oosool3@118.45.149.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:24 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.43] has joined #lisp 10:29:39 ZyAn [guest@dsl-119-2-105-57.thimphu.druknet.bt] has joined #lisp 10:29:47 -!- ZyAn [guest@dsl-119-2-105-57.thimphu.druknet.bt] has left #lisp 10:31:09 wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-174-229.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:31:21 gvz [~gvz@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 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10:53:41 I'm currently workin gon a CL GSSAPI library, and I have a design descision. 10:54:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:54:15 GSSAPI tends to return opaque objects that one later have to free (using separate API calls). 10:54:55 Now, my quesiton is, is it a good design to have wrapper objects around these that use weak references to free the underlying GSSAPI object when the wrapper objects are CG'ed? 10:55:21 Or should I require manual calls to "free" functions? 10:55:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:56:14 the problem with destructors is that noone knows if/when they'll be called though, and they can also affect performance, possibly more on some implementations than others... 10:56:28 phadthai: good point. 10:56:34 another common lisp-friendly way is to provide WITH- style macros 10:56:52 phadthai: yeah, I do, but in some cases it's not possible. 10:57:10 sometimes destructors are the only sane way I guess 10:57:36 or leaving full responsibility to explicitely free 10:57:56 phadthai: how portable are they really? I was thinking of using trivial-garbage. Is it supported by all major CL implementations? 10:58:15 I'm not sure, I've only used some implementation-specifics 10:58:27 Be careful not to confuse destructors with finalizers. 10:58:32 loke_erc: you are thinking about finalizers 10:58:35 not weak references 10:58:40 bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:49 yes I actually meant finalizer, not destructor 10:58:50 Finalizers are generally useful as a fallback strategy. 10:58:58 Zhivago: OK. just to be clear. What I'm talking about is the callback that is called when an ibject is GC'ed 10:59:23 If by callback you mean function, then you're talking about a finalizer. 10:59:53 Zhivago: well, that was what I was talking about. That said, if there are other ways of achieving what I'm looking for, I'm willing to listen :-) 10:59:55 It's best to plan not to rely on finalizers, since the GC generally does not know the economics involved. 11:00:35 An explicit call to remove something is a good idea if there are non-lisp-memory resources involved. 11:00:38 Zhivago: Mmm... The API spec doesn't say, but generally the underlying FFI objects are fairly small 11:01:00 (since you can usually only expect the gc to be aware of lisp-memory resources) 11:01:31 the exception being possibly ecl 11:01:38 So I'd provide both approaches, and expect to clean up explicitly in the usual case. 11:01:46 Ah 11:01:49 OK, good point 11:01:59 I will do that 11:02:35 drdo [~user@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 11:02:35 TRIVIAL-GARBAGE:FINALIZE is the right approach to implement that, or are there other alternatives? 11:02:38 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.12.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:02:45 It would be nice for GCs to be more generally aware or educable of other kinds of resources, but ... 11:02:58 cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:04 That sounds like a portability wrapper that would be appropriate. 11:03:43 I wonder though, how many other people would be interested in this. RIght now I'm not implementing all of GSSAPI. Only the parts that I need. 11:05:50 -!- banana_pee is now known as nick_exile 11:07:30 hlavaty`` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:00 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.182.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:08:59 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:09:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:11:20 it is not *that* hard to add destructors to classes using some macrology, special variables, and unwind-protect. 11:12:05 -!- waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:39 mstevens [~mstevens@kindle.etla.org] has joined #lisp 11:12:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@kindle.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 11:12:39 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:14:24 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 11:15:26 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.13.202] has joined #lisp 11:18:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-132-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:16 dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 11:20:23 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by beer] 11:21:10 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-241-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:05 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.27] has joined #lisp 11:23:20 https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-raii/src 11:23:27 what's so complicated about that 11:23:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:24:00 prxq: it is, if the cariables have very undefined scope and has to be returned from functions 11:24:22 Since the values are used in thework communication, they can subsequently be used in different threads even 11:24:28 so in this case, it 11:24:29 so in this case, it 11:24:38 so in this case, it's actually hard. but I agree, usually it's easy 11:25:45 sometimes some resources have to be managed by hand. 11:26:05 prxq: indeed. 11:27:16 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@146.90.165.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:27:39 loke_erc: is refcounting an option for your use case? 11:28:15 Or, in other words, is your data structure a DAG? 11:28:37 prxq: I don't know. I haven't got to that point yet 11:29:24 prxq: I'm working slowly, since I'm not pressed for time, and my use case for this is my first real GSS application 11:29:36 I suppose I'll learn a lot more as I keep at it 11:29:43 Zhivago: DAG? 11:29:52 Directed Acyclic Graph. 11:30:25 Ah. No. they'r enot 11:30:44 Then reference counting is probably not an option. 11:30:48 these are instances of gss_name_t (in GSSAPI) which is an internal structure used to repesent a pricipal in Kerberos 11:31:17 Well, it's that, and a number of other interim data structures used during GSS handshake 11:32:12 But the name objects are particular in that they can be allocated at any time, and then kept as long as the user wants it 11:32:13 loke_erc: what Zhivago means is wether there are cycles in the dependence of data items on each other. 11:32:51 prxq: for the most prt they are independent 11:33:49 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA081D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:34:41 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA02E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:34:49 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-120-202.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:35:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:40:34 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.13.202] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:41:31 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:54 pkkm [~pawel@enm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:43:38 Knirr [~Knirr@c-e042e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:44:38 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 11:48:48 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:55 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:51:47 -!- skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA081D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 11:52:52 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA081D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:54:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:54:50 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:54:54 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:56:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:56:53 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.187.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:58:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-87-30.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:58:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:59:45 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-60.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:05 -!- nick_exile [~cantcode@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ragequit] 12:00:39 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:00:52 -!- p_l_ is now known as p_l 12:02:35 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:40 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-25-207.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:03:13 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:05:09 sirdancealo3 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:05:24 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:24 -!- sirdancealo3 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:44 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:11:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:29 whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.96.227] has joined #lisp 12:13:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:14:06 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.160.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:00 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:17:24 Hm. I get an optimization note about a simple-string variable, but not a (simple-array character *) 12:17:28 That's annoying 12:17:39 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-60.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:17:40 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:18:51 They don't look equivalent to me. 12:19:00 Did you mean (simple-array character (*)) ? 12:19:04 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 12:19:50 I don't get a note about that either 12:20:03 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:47 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:21:21 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:11 they're equivalent 12:22:17 from simple-array: dimension-spec::= rank | * | ({dimension | *}*) 12:23:02 Well, * and (*) aren't equivalent there. 12:23:09 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:31 The first does not constrain the number of dimensions. 12:25:16 oh yes 12:25:24 well, either way. I'm annoyed. 12:25:45 -!- dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 12:26:53 -!- wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-174-229.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Changing host] 12:26:53 wizzo [~wizzo@unaffiliated/wizzomafizzo] has joined #lisp 12:28:32 gienah_ [~mwright@ppp121-44-118-235.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:39 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29:17 -!- whitedawg [~suraj@122.179.96.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:30:55 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:38 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:33:37 -!- jil [~kone@41.202.71.97] has left #lisp 12:36:53 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-232-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 12:48:17 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 12:48:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:48:50 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:50:26 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has left #lisp 12:51:11 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:51:58 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:52:54 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:21 zoolex [73719546@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.113.149.70] has joined #lisp 12:55:26 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:55:53 i have a function (defun isgt (x) (lambda (c) (> c x))), and i'm trying to use it like ((isgt 3) 4), but clisp complains that (isgt 3) is not a function name whereas rep works as i'd expect it to. how do i use a generated function in clisp? 12:56:50 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 12:56:58 zoolex: (funcall (isgt 3) 4), same as other CL implementations. 12:57:44 oh.. ah, i see. in rep, doing just a ((isgt 3) 4) works, so i didn't realise i needed something else for that.. 12:57:49 thanks! 12:59:08 librep implements a scheme-like. 12:59:21 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-200-231-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 13:02:20 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-215-232-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:04:39 jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:04:43 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 when i try to pass this generated function to another function, i get an error saying "undefined function x". how do i make it take the value of x from the environment in which the function was defined? 13:08:53 <|3b|> (funcall x ...)? 13:09:22 <|3b|> functions and variables are separate in CL, unlike scheme 13:09:45 but x isn't a function at all.. it's a parameter that my generated lambda takes... 13:10:00 (defun isgt (x) (lambda (c) (> c x))) <--- x is defined here 13:10:01 <|3b|> right, x is a variable containing a function 13:10:22 <|3b|> ok, not a variable containing a funct on 13:10:41 this is a little confusing :\ 13:10:43 <|3b|> x isn't a parameter to the lambda, it is a variable closed over by the lambda 13:10:49 zoolex: (x 4) calls the function x. (funcall x 4) calls the function to which the variable x is bound. You probably want to read a book. Common Lisp isn't scheme. 13:10:51 yes, that 13:11:14 ah, okay... 13:11:34 i was under the impression that rep was a CL interpreter.. 13:11:39 And it's a good idea to try and avoid reusing undescriptive variable names when you want to understand error messages. 13:12:17 proby [~megabrake@unaffiliated/megabraker] has joined #lisp 13:12:27 i'll keep that in mind! 13:12:32 <|3b|> rep is its own language as far as i know 13:12:34 it's just my second day with lisp so far 13:12:44 ah, i see! 13:12:53 skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA062E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:40 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA081D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:17:27 -!- skbierm_ [~sascha@p4FEA062E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:57 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:27 Should short vector SIMD values be named pack or simd-pack? 13:22:04 -!- loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:22:31 Fare [~fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:44 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:23:26 loke_erc [~user@bb115-66-218-239.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:25:33 -!- zoolex [73719546@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.113.149.70] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:32:05 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 13:37:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:53 -!- hiato_ [~nine@196-215-121-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 13:41:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:41:42 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 13:42:17 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 13:43:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:43:34 imu96 [~imran@91.140.156.195] has joined #lisp 13:43:35 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:44:37 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:51 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 13:48:00 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-33.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:33 MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:15 madrik [~user@122.168.208.78] has joined #lisp 13:50:19 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-217-240-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 13:50:43 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:53:11 gendl_ [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:56 holycow_ [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:23 LiamH1 [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 13:55:58 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 13:56:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:56:12 igorww [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has joined #lisp 13:56:18 Skola [basdirks@5352A1E5.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 13:56:27 can I write (lambda (x) (* x y)) shorter? 13:56:45 Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 13:56:51 (lambda(x)(* x y)) 13:56:55 SanderM_ [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:02 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:07 DrForr_ [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:31 so no pointfree style? 13:57:46 pointfree? 13:57:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:57:49 or (lambda (x) (* y x))? 13:58:00 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:58:05 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 13:58:26 in Haskell (\x -> y * x) would be (* y) 13:58:35 Skola: there's a couple macro. Varryingly called curry, partial-apply or papply (no schoenfinkel, strangely enough). Many here consider the style pointless 13:58:41 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:58:47 ok 13:58:48 well, CL is no haskell 13:58:53 no kidding 13:58:54 Skola: you can do weird things using combination of reader macros and normal macros 13:58:55 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:10 RazWelles_ [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:13 okay, thanks 13:59:15 Skola: however, there wasn't much craze for cryptic naming in CL 13:59:19 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.156.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:21 (alexandria:curry #'* 2), for instance. 14:00:04 Skola: difference between being a bit oriented for "professional" use and being a love child of math people ;) 14:00:06 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:00:17 stokachu_ [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has joined #lisp 14:00:35 well it's just reduction, not exactly magical 14:00:43 but I don't expect it from other languages 14:00:45 was just curious 14:01:03 (mapcar (lambda (x) (* x 2)) '(1 2 3)) => (mapcar '* '(1 2 3) '#1=(2 . #1#)) ;; not really portable 14:01:17 Skola: CL tends to be a bit verbose and explicit 14:01:26 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.208.78] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-200-231-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- pkkm [~pawel@enm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.27] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-139.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75414e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- igorw [~igorw@phpbb/developer/evil3] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.197.6] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-8-92.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- Summon [~Summon@gw2.sibers.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:01:27 -!- stokachu_ is now known as stokachu 14:01:40 -!- gendl_ is now known as gendl 14:02:02 -!- RazWelles__ [~Raz@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 14:02:08 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:02:34 also, Haskell not being oriented towards "professional" use is a bit of a silly statement. The mathy nature of it makes it especially suited for "professional" use in a certain environments. 14:02:46 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 14:03:04 let's discuss haskell in #haskell, kthx 14:03:10 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:03:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:27 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.197.6] has joined #lisp 14:03:33 yeah sure 14:04:11 Skola: I'm talking about mindset when certain things been decided. Both can be used :) 14:04:18 but in reality, instead of (mapcar (lambda (x) (* x 2)) '(1 2 3)) i would write (loop for i in '(1 2 3) collect (* 2 i)) 14:04:19 galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has joined #lisp 14:04:31 *p_l* loves LOOP 14:04:32 -!- galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has left #lisp 14:05:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:05:44 the reason I asked was because I have something like (flatten (map (lambda (x) (map (lambda (y) (* y x)) lst) lst)) 14:06:13 redim [~redim@159.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:15 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:06:17 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:06:27 Skola: what language is that? 14:06:34 imu96 [~imran@91.140.156.195] has joined #lisp 14:06:34 -!- imu96 [~imran@91.140.156.195] has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:01 not CL, but the other lispy channels seem pretty dead 14:07:07 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:07:30 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-8-92.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:07:32 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-47.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 14:07:32 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-47.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 14:07:32 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 14:07:52 why not (mapcan (lambda (x) (mapcar (lambda (y) (* x y)) list)) list)? 14:07:56 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 14:08:05 expect CL answers, not generic lispy ones. 14:08:06 pkkm [~pawel@enm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:08:19 Summon [~Summon@gw2.sibers.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:22 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 14:08:25 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-159-234-112.range81-159.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:39 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 14:09:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:09:34 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.27] has joined #lisp 14:09:47 or (alexandria:map-product #'* list list) 14:10:00 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:10:01 Skola: just because the other lisp channels are dead does not make this the go-to channel for non-cl lisp dialects. 14:10:14 aha ok 14:10:41 names are funny things though aren't they? 14:10:41 techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has joined #lisp 14:11:47 stassats, thanks 14:14:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:22:54 -!- Skola [basdirks@5352A1E5.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 14:24:49 Aperculum [~lauri@85-23-20-41.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:25:41 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:13 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:29:42 so, I found this blog post explaining the benefits of lisp: http://lisperator.net/blog/why-lisp/ 14:30:08 on the "organic growth" it tells how I can edit lisp program on the fly 14:30:32 so, when I have my lisp webserver running, how do I actually go about attaching a repl to it and editing it "on the fly" 14:30:42 use slime 14:30:53 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:32:46 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 14:32:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:57 -!- igorww is now known as igorw 14:33:30 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:33:34 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 14:34:18 i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:34:33 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:34:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:35:14 -!- jarmond [~user@93-96-213-180.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:55 does it work with scheme too or only with common lisp? 14:36:18 slime is primarily focused on common lisp 14:36:37 okay 14:37:20 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 14:38:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:43 Aperculum: if you want something SLIME-like for Scheme, look at Geiser. 14:40:37 ah, nice 14:40:38 thanks 14:42:13 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:08 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 14:43:18 beaumonta [~abeaumont@65.219.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:43:33 -!- gienah_ [~mwright@ppp121-44-118-235.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:43:33 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@65.219.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:08 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:39 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:45:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:46:06 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:46:21 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:46:37 j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:34 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:38 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:01:45 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 15:05:49 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:29 sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@116.24.102.230] has joined #lisp 15:13:10 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:13:50 n0vember [~n0vember@liberacescursedpiano.org] has joined #lisp 15:14:27 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:14:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:16:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:23:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-132-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:26:28 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:27:36 yhvh [~yhvh@209.40.204.161] has joined #lisp 15:27:59 hey, is there a name for the shape some functional programs tend towards, like you know, longline\nshorter\nshorter\nshortest ? 15:28:11 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:04 yhvh: i don't get what you're talking about 15:29:36 yhvh: coincidence? 15:30:37 what's up with lispbuilder? is it updated these days, e.g. to follow cffi? 15:30:53 hey, is there somebody study the compiler of lisp? 15:32:24 lispbuilder maintainers haven't been active in years. 15:33:36 sabayonuser2, what do you mean? 15:35:00 I want to compile the lisp code to machine code, and I know the cmu lisp have a compiler written in lisp 15:35:34 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:35:43 So I want to know if anybody study the compiler? and how to improve the usage extension 15:36:07 sabayonuser2: Most Lisp implementations compile to machine code 15:36:07 your english is hard to get through 15:36:22 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:36:38 and CMUCL is not really relevant nowadays anymore, try SBCL instead 15:36:59 -!- LiamH1 [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:37:20 Yes, I know,but I find the machine code including a whole image of lisp 15:37:41 not the pure machine code depends on the OS. 15:38:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:09 are you using google translate or something? 15:39:18 no, i wrote it by myself 15:39:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:39:26 sabayonuser2: I believe ECL can do what you want 15:39:45 haha, my english is very poor, so sorry 15:39:47 sabayonuser2: However, the actual discussion is much more complicated. ANd I don't have time for it. I need to sleep nw 15:39:48 now 15:39:51 sabayonuser2: well, it's not really intelligible, sorry 15:39:52 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 15:39:55 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 15:40:24 sabayonuser2: what's your native language? 15:40:41 chinese 15:41:00 and you? 15:41:26 sabayonuser2, if you want to learn how to produce machine code, the best explanation are the papers by the ikarus scheme author. 15:41:52 if you want to study a particular compiler, then you should read the documentation and source code for that compiler. 15:41:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-49.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:14 Fare,thanks very much for your advice 15:43:39 That explains why I have an easier time to understand. I work a lot with chinese people. 15:44:07 it seemed fairly clear to me, but the answer to what I thought he was saying seemed way too obvious 15:45:02 ^_^, really? 15:45:04 Fare: I found the documentation for the SBCL internals to be sa but spotty, and some of it is out of date. 15:45:15 i mean "to be a bit" 15:46:27 if I do not talk here, I will never find so poor my English is 15:46:50 sabayonuser2: Well, to be fair, your ENglish is better than my Chinese. 15:47:04 I did study Chinese, but I don't remember any of it. 15:47:28 if you were korean, I could help... but that's not much help :) 15:47:43 i'm still not sure what the question is, how to compile to machine code? how to run lisp without OS? 15:47:55 Chinese is so long life that every character means a lot, so it is hard to learn 15:48:14 stassats: he wants to learn how lisp compilers work more or less 15:48:44 I suspect there's a bit of non-understanding what he wants to learn along with the language difficulty 15:49:37 casion: Understandable. I don't think there is much Lisp documentation in Chinese. At least I haven't seen much Lisp knowledge anywhere in Asia (including China) 15:49:47 normanrichards [~normanric@AUSTTXHODS0AE13.mcleodusa.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:54 lisp is quite big in japan 15:49:57 stassats, I mean that, the SBCL compile source to application including the whole image, the way is not same with the language C works, just so. 15:50:00 which is an asian country 15:50:10 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:13 in fact, there's a lot of lisp documentation in japanese 15:50:33 casion: fair enough. 15:50:34 sabayonuser2: the fasls SBCL compiles to are machine code too 15:50:39 sabayonuser2, what's your ultimate goal? 15:50:44 the lisp culture is in large part where ruby's roots started no less 15:50:51 Yes, so the AI is in a very high level in japan. 15:50:56 casion: I should have excluded them, since I know nothing about Japan 15:50:59 write your own compiler? enhance an existing compiler? 15:51:02 lisp in japan I mean* 15:51:08 lisp is not about AI really for a long time already 15:51:26 maybe sabayonuser2 wants to generate small binaries? 15:51:38 using the lisp as C. that mean run the application without lisp envirment. 15:52:04 sabayonuser2: You can do that by dumping the lisp environment. That gives you a binary you can run standalone. 15:52:05 can C run without libc? 15:52:12 or without a posix OS? 15:52:14 sabayonuser2: Most Lisp implementations allow you to do that. 15:52:25 sabayonuser2, as in movitz? 15:52:33 ErF [~erf@178.255.21.97] has joined #lisp 15:52:34 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:41 or losak? 15:52:48 stassats: C does not require a POSIX environemnt though :-) 15:53:18 thank you for being pedantic 15:53:20 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:24 nor does it 'require' libc technically 15:53:33 stassats: You're welcome. 15:53:50 stassats: Yes, I can read sarcasm. 15:53:59 yes, , you said the right thing. the world is the C world, lisp is the high level world than C, but run in a C world, I want to run application without lisp but using the lisp's power 15:54:14 sabayonuser2: why? 15:54:15 see also how the haskell or caml guys are running directly on top of the (virtual) hardware w/o a linux kernel 15:54:31 sabayonuser2: But you never answered: Doesn't a lisp dump give you exactly what you want? 15:54:45 loke_erc: it includes the whole implementation 15:55:07 which, apparently, is not desirable 15:55:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:55:26 stassats: Well, it has to. But it's part of the binary itself. Everybody needs a binary to run and externally the only difference is that it's a bit larger. 15:55:51 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 -!- yhvh [~yhvh@209.40.204.161] has left #lisp 15:55:59 Yuuhi [benni@p5DC62B4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:56:51 sorry, loke_erc, my typing is slow and english is poor, not so fast to react you, you said the thing is not the exact what i want. 15:56:54 one can use fasls 15:57:40 sabayonuser2: OK. I see what you are saying. But, what is is about dumping a lisp image that makes it not good for you? 15:58:25 I think is too large to use. 15:58:47 esepcially, embedded system 15:59:23 and very little application is not neccesary to load a whole lisp image. 15:59:53 sabayonuser2: have you encountered that as an issue yet? 15:59:57 they just use one part of the lisp image. 15:59:59 and it is not necessary to boot a whole OS to run C applications 16:00:10 I think you would be surprised how that is almost never an issue 16:00:48 yes. 16:01:13 I just describe my ideal . 16:01:48 sabayonuser2: http://s508.beta.photobucket.com/user/jimmyr73/media/79870.jpg.html 16:02:38 Fare: I don't get it, previously asdf was simply hiding some of the warnings? and printed some others? I thought our systems are warning free until recent asdf versions... 16:03:00 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:15 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:05:04 -!- MoALTz is now known as Guest9684 16:05:04 -!- Guest9684 [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Killed (sendak.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 16:05:05 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 16:05:25 dioxirane [~LacioDrom@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has joined #lisp 16:05:28 , could I dump each package to their own file? 16:05:45 one package , one file 16:05:50 sabayonuser2: No. At least not in the CL's I have used. 16:06:09 thanks a lot. 16:06:17 sabayonuser2: Lisp code can assume that the entire environment is available to it all the time. 16:06:29 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:50 sabayonuser2: you can, into fasls 16:06:56 sabayonuser2: That is why it's difficult to create small binaries like that. Many other languages are exactly the same. 16:07:18 yes! I just want to seperate them clearly, not confused by the depends. 16:07:53 sabayonuser2: You still still need the Lisp environment though. 16:08:00 ,the fasls is one lisp one fasl, not one package one fasl 16:09:02 yes,loke,but the depends is clear, the application could load the required part only. 16:09:46 oh, sometimes, that means the bottom-up building the language. 16:10:06 the lisp language is large in some domain. 16:10:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-139.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:11:30 it's tinier than R7RS ;) is sabayonuser2 looking for a tree shaker? 16:13:13 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon92.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 16:13:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:14:14 -!- gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:14:33 -!- sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@116.24.102.230] has left #lisp 16:14:37 -!- ErF [~erf@178.255.21.97] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:14:50 gienah [~mwright@gentoo/developer/gienah] has joined #lisp 16:15:50 attila_lendvai, previously, some of the warnings would only appear at the end of the first compilation, without being checked 16:15:52 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-a9cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:16:20 also, asdf3 checks warnings at the end of each system, so if you have one system that defines functions used in a previous system, there wouldn't have been a warning before 16:16:22 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:46 Fare: what I see is that with old asdf's when I loaded our systems there were no warnings anywhere. now there are. (and I'm happy about it) 16:17:03 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:17:07 were you loading from clean or incrementally? 16:17:14 -!- proby is now known as megabraker 16:17:34 impomatic [~digital_w@22.120.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:18:33 I was loading in various different ways, and sometimes I saw some strange warnings (when building our production image), which I normally haven't seen when loading just perec in itself... but these are vague memories. what I clearly remember is that at one point we made all our systems warning-free and kept them that way -- except that there are warnings now loaded with asdf HEAD 16:20:02 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-091ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:20:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:20:25 k0001 [~k0001@host40.186-108-163.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:21:36 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-217-240-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:21:51 *attila_lendvai* becomes AFK 16:23:02 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-222-209-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:25:01 Bike [~Glossina@65-100-34-217.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:00 -!- redim [~redim@159.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:35 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-163.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:33 Yinne [~Knirr@37.250.11.92.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 16:33:43 -!- techlife [techlife@60.212.33.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:34:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:35:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:35:04 -!- Knirr [~Knirr@c-e042e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 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16:57:54 and it was mentioned 16:58:28 ok, but insisting on libecl.so vs. libc.so would have been nice. 17:01:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:02:11 github has really been going downhill the past week 17:03:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:07:36 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:23 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@109.163.166.119] has joined #lisp 17:10:21 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:05 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:12:18 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-33.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:12:27 *Xach* hadn't noticed 17:13:03 -!- cades [~mac@host-61-70-191-50.static.kbtelecom.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:13:58 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:14:02 it keeps downloading clicked links rather than navigating to them 17:15:21 never seen that happening 17:15:26 dlowe: but thanks for the merge! 17:15:28 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:15:45 H4ns: yeah, sorry it took so long. 17:15:59 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.229] has left #lisp 17:16:05 One of these days I'm going to merge in my timespec changes 17:16:11 dlowe: not a problem, next next leap year's february is far away :) 17:17:17 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:40 woah. my gpg key finally expired. 17:19:46 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:57 dlowe: did you get my mail about a warning in local-time? 17:22:37 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:23:42 yeah, that's what prompted me pushing out a new version 17:24:06 now I'm just yak-shaving my way to releasing it 17:26:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26:44 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 17:27:43 Natch [~Natch@c-fecee155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:27:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:30:45 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 17:31:54 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:34:28 Fare, Xach: local-time is now at 1.0.4 17:35:14 yay 17:36:01 gvz [~gvz@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 17:37:13 dlowe: thanks! 17:37:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:39:39 is named-readtables known to not work on allegro? 17:40:42 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:03 *Fare* pushes an update to POIU 17:43:25 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 17:43:37 Fare: so it's officially POIU now? 17:44:07 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:46:20 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:46:20 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 17:46:20 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 17:46:28 -!- maxm--- [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:34 oh, no 17:46:35 maxm--- [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:42 poiu is an already existing package 17:46:51 it's the Parallel Operator on Independent Units 17:46:58 it compiles ASDF systems in parallel 17:46:58 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-33.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:06 originally written by Andreas Fuchs. 17:47:17 I haven't changed anything about asdf-driver yet. 17:47:26 probably is going to be UIOP 17:47:41 Utilities for Implementation- and OS- Portability. 17:48:18 considering it's a portability layer, 27% of which deals with pathname munging and filesystem access 17:48:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:42 kiuma 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quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 19:05:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-163.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:24 Knirr [~Knirr@95.209.47.212.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 19:06:48 -!- Yinne [~Knirr@37.250.11.92.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:06:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-163.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:02 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:33 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:56 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.12, SBCL 1.1.5, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7, ASDF 2.31 19:12:14 .12 is so last year 19:12:35 find another bug! :) 19:14:05 mutley89 [~mutley89@92.40.254.79.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:15:45 user52882 [~user52882@94-194-53-166.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:18:01 H4ns: doc bugs count? 19:18:14 Xach: of course 19:18:34 *stassats* tries to uses lparallel for his REPL 19:18:46 seems to work, although handling errors is now more complicated 19:18:53 acceptor-status-message docs say it takes three args but it seems to take only two 19:21:01 -!- xcombelle_ [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:21:45 *stassats* plans to introduce the first killer feature which slime lacks, backtraces for output! 19:22:01 What's a backtrace for output? 19:22:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:22:10 you click on printed text and say "gimme a backtrace, which bugger did print that" 19:22:48 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.13, SBCL 1.1.5, CFFI 0.11.0, Babel 0.4.0, trivial-garbage 0.20, trivial-features 0.7, ASDF 2.31 19:23:45 with sufficiently smart stripping of implementation's FORMATs and PRINTs, it can pinpoint the source 19:24:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:24:39 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:25:06 it won't be a live backtrace, but should be sufficient anyway 19:25:14 beats grepping 19:25:20 oh, nice. 19:27:19 hm, if i use lparallel consistently for evaluation and stuff, i can then just use lfarm and not need to make my own protocol! 19:27:35 what about an omniscient debugger for lisp? 19:28:17 if an implementation supports it, yes, why not 19:29:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-163.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:37 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:30:02 using things like trivial-gray-streams or lparallel is so much easier than having to write your own, like slime does 19:30:29 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 and not having emacs limitations is great too 19:30:46 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:31:10 -!- Knirr [~Knirr@95.209.47.212.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:58 anybody cares for a boring repl video? 19:32:21 *H4ns* would watch 19:32:57 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-33.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:35 what do you do with lparallel? 19:34:02 schedule evaluation in a separate thread 19:34:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-163.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:50 Knirr [Dfous@95.209.47.212.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 ..seems mutch interesting 19:43:05 there you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2zyRQlLLSU 19:43:19 it's really simple so far 19:45:02 youtube says "We detected ways to improve your videos lighting. Would you like us to enhance it?" 19:45:50 ..what is the right answer? :) 19:46:16 stassats: that is a qt based repl? 19:46:23 H4ns: yep 19:47:00 stassats: nice! 19:47:37 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:49:05 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:50:38 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:53:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:54:06 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@5357918A.cm-6-8c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:54:06 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@5357918A.cm-6-8c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Changing host] 19:54:06 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 19:54:29 -!- megabraker [~megabrake@unaffiliated/megabraker] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:00:31 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:01:14 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host195.190-137-206.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:03 -!- naryl1 [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 20:03:24 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:04:05 *clintm* scrolls up... rightclick -> inspect, huh? 20:04:33 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:04:33 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:04:37 huh? 20:05:48 I liked the right-click to inspect at the very end of that video. 20:06:14 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has quit [Quit: pinupgeek] 20:06:37 you can do that in slime, too 20:07:15 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:39 hah... did it in slime as you sent that. I guess I just got used to inspecting things only in backtraces. 20:08:05 ugh... I can't form a coherent sentence this morning. I'm sure more coffee will help. 20:08:11 though i usually do C-c C-v C-i 20:14:05 *drewc* is having his first cup-o-joe this afternoon ... woke up late! 20:16:53 stassats: that looks great! it is available on github or, g-d forbid. common-lisp.net? I would like to play/patch :) 20:17:34 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-29-124.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:17 knob [~knob@66-50-29-124.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:19 there's not much to see yet 20:18:23 so, hold your horses 20:21:13 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:21:31 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-91-164.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 20:24:18 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:23 -!- oticat` [~oticat@36-229-253-236.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:29:32 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-33.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:30:03 oticat` [~oticat@1-164-208-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:30 stassats: well, it is 'better' than SLIME REPL .... wait let me rephrase that ... 20:32:32 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-71-135-33.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:56 it is a graphical REPL that is not emacs based? Is in near a pre-alpha version that I could check out after holding my horses 'til it is time? 20:34:30 it's not emacs based, but it's not near any version 20:35:03 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:35:20 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-222-209-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:36:08 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:37:04 ok, well, my plan is, by 2014, to not use emacs very much. That means a lot of dev stuff to make it happen. Regardless, the REPL and EDITOR will have to be over SWANK, so heh ... a lot of work to do!? 20:37:41 many parts of slime, or rather swank, can be reused 20:39:05 So, my 'current' plan is climacs for the editor, and now , well, many repls I have to 'taste' 20:39:55 But ... I would also not mind a shell based editor and repl ... like for example ... sigh ... emacs ... 20:40:24 -!- lukas [~lukas@194.228.13.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:46 for running under tmux or screen for my alpha/beta/gamma releases more than anything else ... 20:41:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:41:47 and I suppose that rlwrap + SLIME is likely enough .... I am just not an emacs fanboy, (though elisp is moving forward!) 20:42:12 so looking for 'proper' CL things 20:43:31 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:43 like, say, the IDE that LW or Allegro has .. or CCL apparently for that matter ... only, well, heh. 10 years later and no idea what I want, just how to get there. 20:48:35 Any recommendations for a beginner in terms of test framework? By googling I get the sense that none of the frameworks are truly dominant. 20:48:48 drewc: IMO one of the more important things the ide "library" might have is support for proper parsers instead of regexes for syntax detection (afaik Climacs already did that?), and a better "buffer" protocol 20:49:14 drewc: something along the lines of "zipper" with generic objects in buffer that I could modify would be great :) 20:49:28 (so I could put in more than text... more easily than Emacs, at least) 20:51:34 p_l: heh ... interesting! I am working on s again actually, and have never liked regexes at all, so youO is myO as well. 20:52:15 I'm actually dealing a bit with parsers recently, I want to get our NOTAM and OpenAir parsers to work for our OpenData project 20:53:05 p_l: Did you find a reliable source for the NOTAM messages? 20:54:04 p_l: Or do we still have to scrape webpages? 20:56:18 still scraping 20:56:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-139.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:56:29 though I'll get some sensible scraping tools later on 20:56:47 this weekend was spent under the name of "SF Bay Area house hunting" 20:57:21 just in case 20:57:22 oho, p_l (: 20:57:47 p_l: good luck - it's pretty hard to find something affordable here ATM (: 20:57:55 or rather, /-: 20:57:58 antifuchs: it's not even certain I'll go there, just doing preliminary checks in case the interviews go well this coming week 20:58:12 and yes, it's expensive 20:58:40 then you find something that looks quite nice and find out it has "Neighbourhood: Tenderloin" written in small letters 20:58:46 p_l: Boulder is much more affordable, and theres a CL company not far away ;) 20:59:11 sellout-1: I'd need sponsorship for H-1B which the current company is willing to do :P 20:59:22 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:26 heh ... I live across a sound from the second least affordable real estate on earth ... 20:59:36 (which is why the whole process is so rushed it will be done within a week) 20:59:44 akovalenko [~user@195.18.46.21] has joined #lisp 20:59:48 but where I live is 'affordable' if you happen to live on a boat ... 20:59:55 if I do get the job, I'll go to USA in October 21:00:23 *drewc* has servers in Boulder and Denver! 21:00:53 tiger.common-lisp.net for that matter, so on topic :P 21:01:11 wow, that's great 21:01:13 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.14.79] has joined #lisp 21:01:40 drewc: You should come visit them :) 21:02:15 they might get lonely 21:02:47 sellout-1: well, this is the last month they will be there ... then moving them to a place where, even if they are lonely, well, herb alone is a good thing! 21:03:05 Amsterdam ;) 21:03:27 lol 21:03:32 drewc: Hey, that's legal here too, now ;) 21:03:35 http://alpha.common-lisp.net <--- on the new server 21:03:39 sellout-1: true dat! 21:03:54 sellout-1: semi-legal, actually - they still got issues with federal law, afaik 21:05:00 and I live in the $3b a month GDP export of such things, Vancouver BC ... where it is still illegal though we ship 90% of it to the states ... to the state named after the First pres for that matter. 21:05:01 p_l: Indeed. 21:05:36 where is it legal now ... 21:05:51 what a fascinating discussion about Lisp 21:06:17 well, I don't have a liking for that certain herb. But I'll be veeery interested in now available data from WA regarding long-term use and whether it actually causes conspiracy thinking or not ;) 21:06:33 One develops lisp when smoking too much weed (ambiguity intended). 21:06:45 stassats: indeed, I think I will go over to #ganja where I can talk about FEXPRS without anyone taking offense. 21:06:51 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:03 as for parsing in lisp... it was esrap I think that I used back then, was it, antoszka ? 21:07:23 p_l: Yep, esrap looked promising. Though we got tangled into cl-ppcre ;) 21:07:31 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abom189.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:07:55 most importantly my test parser ended up in infinite loop of consing :/ 21:08:04 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:08:10 I'll have to start from scratch too 21:08:15 *drewc* uses his own parser combinator monadic library for parsing.... things have moved forward since UNIX days after all. 21:08:31 -!- dioxirane [~OXO@unaffiliated/dioxirane] has left #lisp 21:08:56 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-139.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:21 GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-62-126.21-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 21:10:23 unix would actually involve yacc shaving ;) 21:10:45 ok... so should I rename asdf-driver into uiop ? 21:11:00 (also the best-named pub I was ever in, The Shaven Yak) 21:11:12 Fare: is it going to be farmed out as separate thing to reuse? 21:11:32 Fare: yes 21:11:36 it's already reusable 21:11:37 p_l: yes 21:11:42 Fare: then go for it 21:11:47 but if putting it in a separate git repo helps, I can do 21:11:49 Fare: pick something I can pronounce :) 21:12:05 how is uiop less pronounceable than asdf? 21:12:12 you-op? I am an op after all. 21:12:37 yee-op of you are Celtic based :P 21:12:38 for me it's u-yo-p 21:12:38 "oo-yop", "you-yop" 21:12:50 (well, said as one) 21:12:56 You eye oh pee. 21:13:05 That's how I read it 21:13:15 antoszka: which reminds me! bbiab 21:13:19 :) 21:13:29 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:44 If you have a strong Bulgarian accent it sounds ridiculous beyond belief. I hope I never have to pronounce it in public :) 21:13:56 A Shite Definitely Found 21:14:26 *drewc* owns ferrets, not uncommon 21:15:04 *p_l* only has to sometime take care of a hunting dog with mannerisms of a cat -_- 21:15:31 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 21:15:45 Talking about the miniature hunting dog? 21:16:36 antoszka: York. When it's waiting for a hunt it acts like a cat often 21:16:57 now, if I could make a piece of lisp make it more useful... 21:17:07 hw lacking 21:21:27 drewc: so, when are you releasing a quick-build extension for asdf? 21:22:22 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 21:22:33 Fare: actually, thinking of that today! And wanted to talk to you about the 'systems' I want, how they interrelate, etc etc etc. 21:22:51 well, "we accept patches" 21:23:01 and I'm definitely willing to help make it happen 21:24:11 So, yeah, this is not quite ASDF, but it is kinda sorta out there as far as the code all fitting together and 'working', so is not a bad 'first taste' of ASDF/QUICK-BUILD 21:26:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:36 ok, so I now know what I will spend some time on today, and maybe will have a version of quick-build that includes ASDF (if it is there) and DTRT 21:28:20 -!- agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:29:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.218.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:30:03 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:10 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:05 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-183-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:28 -!- GuglielmoS [~guglielmo@ppp-62-126.21-151.libero.it] has quit [Quit: GuglielmoS] 21:32:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:36:56 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:38:36 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:13 -!- gvz [~gvz@78-60-33-10.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:47:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:48:20 francogrex [~user@109.134.219.237] has joined #lisp 21:49:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:54:33 -!- ebw [~user@f051175215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:51 -!- googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:55:59 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 21:58:50 -!- drewc is now known as not_drewc 21:59:02 -!- not_drewc is now known as drewc 21:59:16 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #lisp 21:59:17 -!- pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@66-87-143-37.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Changing host] 21:59:17 pinupgeek [~pinupgeek@unaffiliated/pinupgeek] has joined #lisp 21:59:52 -!- i8ul8r [i8ul8r@c-d91ee755.05-23-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Fug!] 22:02:47 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:29 cmm- [~cmm@109.65.178.47] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 22:03:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:04:04 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-183-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:05:42 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 22:06:18 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:07:06 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:08:45 waveman [~tim@101.174.161.170] has joined #lisp 22:09:59 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025976.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:12:35 -!- pkkm [~pawel@enm133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:15:11 Woops. I accidentally killed buffer with slime-debugger and it now doesn't show up when i do C-c C-c. Is there a way to bring it back? =>__>= 22:16:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:18:13 i think you need to learn to let go :) 22:18:23 foreignFunction: well, what you are saying does not quite make sense ... if you killed the debugger window, then you do not want the debugger, so ... 22:18:46 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:49 bring it back? make the same 'error/break' happen :) 22:19:36 -!- SanderM_ [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:52 My lisp is in infinite loop now, and i don't know any other way to brake it other than C-c C-c. 22:21:04 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.145.51] has joined #lisp 22:21:21 hi DataLinkDroid 22:21:27 foreignFunction, send some signal mayhap? 22:21:30 like SIGINT 22:22:03 morning, dto :) 22:24:47 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.50] has joined #lisp 22:24:55 foreignFunction: see, one of the things about programs .. If you tell it to go in an infinite loop, it will. I have a loop that has been running for at least 2 years now! :) 22:25:40 maybe you could make a buffer and M-x sldb-mode to it 22:25:43 if its name is right 22:26:38 in fact .. heh ... 22:27:00 slime-sldb, maybe 22:27:11 5 years at least, possibly 7, this LOOP 22:27:30 sbcl 0.8. 22:27:33 drewc, don't LOOP, ITERATE 22:28:14 weirdo: well, I know who not to hire as part of my dev team... thanks for the insight! :P 22:28:34 :P 22:28:57 drewc: you mean, some of your programs are not algorithms? 22:29:04 they don't terminate!? 22:29:18 :) 22:29:20 pjb: yes, http://tech.coop ! 22:29:24 So you're writing programs outside of mathematical theory?!? 22:29:39 nope, space/time is needed 22:30:09 but, lucky for me, well, multiverse etc ;) 22:30:45 Signal doesn't work, creates new *sldb sbcl/2* with debugger, but no matter what i choose, it returns into loop and continues to ignore slime-interrupt. Creating *sldb sbcl* and sldb-mode'ing it doesn't work too. 22:31:04 :( 22:32:26 (:emacs-interrupt :repl-thread) shows up in *slime-events* but still doesn't bring up a buffer. 22:33:44 any other ideas? 22:34:11 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 22:34:22 foreignFunction, SIGABRT? 22:34:22 :P 22:34:37 unless this invokes the kitteh of desu 22:35:08 foreignFunction: killall -9 sbcl 22:35:15 what are you doing that SLIME is so important that you must pop up the debugger (in EMACS) in the middle of the loop you wrote not to terminate? 22:35:55 foreignFunction: that's for the bash-repl 22:35:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:17 isn't it deterministic?! 22:36:25 such-that you could re-break-it 22:36:32 instead it crashes randomly? 22:37:00 I think it is written to be terminated. It's (xmpp:receive-stanza-loop connection) from cl-xmpp. 22:39:36 And problem is not in it, but in slime that doesn't want to create a buffer for slime-interrupt anymore, i think. 22:39:40 *drewc* does not have cl-xmpp installed, so no idea what that function does at all. 22:40:13 -!- Knirr [Dfous@95.209.47.212.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:29 I think cl-xmpp isn't a very good example of how to solve extensible protocol problems. 22:40:44 it'll break on every unknown message that's coming in. 22:41:34 when i messed with cl-irc i just read-message-loop'd in a different thread so i could keep repling 22:41:42 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 22:42:13 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:44:21 Bike: sounds sane. 22:44:37 Bike: but the IRC protocol doesn't get extended too much. 22:44:41 i'm assuming that receive-stanza-loop is similar 22:44:48 I think xmpp is really meant to be extended. 22:44:57 cl-irc and cl-xmpp have similar structures. 22:45:28 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:31 Unyuu~ Seems it will be easier to just restart slime /__\ Thanks for help anyway ^^ 22:45:33 ehu: cl-irc used to crash on another network's "here's the channel URI" message, actually... bit of a pain to work around 22:46:14 foreignFunction, nyoro~n 22:48:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:50:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105.236.181.86] has joined #lisp 22:51:00 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.219.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:56:19 Bike: yup. that's fixed now, if I'm right. 22:56:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2025.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105.236.181.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:57:48 mm. 22:58:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:00:41 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:00:49 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fb09c5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:01:47 -!- wizzo [~wizzo@unaffiliated/wizzomafizzo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:06:20 -!- redim [~redim@63.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:59 wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-137-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:10:45 -!- urgosum [~urgosum@host86-148-233-55.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:11:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:39 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-120-202.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:47 dnolen [~user@206.48.23.226] has joined #lisp 23:15:24 redim [~redim@83.61.37.63] has joined #lisp 23:17:49 worstadmin_ [~worst@174.141.213.55] has joined #lisp 23:17:50 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@65.219.15.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:17:55 Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:18:26 abeaumont [~abeaumont@37.15.147.145] has joined #lisp 23:19:06 -!- Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:41 Artheist [~quassel@modemcable051.243-130-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:24:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:26:00 -!- wizzo [~wizzo@58-7-137-223.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:26:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:26:42 agumonkey [~agu@65.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:55 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-108-52-166-246.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:37 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:47 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:31:18 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 23:31:19 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-202.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:33:28 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 23:36:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 23:39:08 googol [~matthew@lal-99-123.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:41:14 antifuchs: also, yeah, prices in Silicon Valley are horrible :/ 23:42:30 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-137-168-140.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:42:51 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:43:09 how would you write declarative-binary-types with the ability to defer stuff to third parties? 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