00:03:57 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 00:04:44 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1168076900.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:08:51 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 00:16:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:17:52 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:17 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 00:21:22 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:22:14 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 00:22:19 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.220.164] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:22:55 bitonic`` [~user@b0f9e33f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:15 -!- bitonic` [~user@027b4d61.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:18 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 00:26:58 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 00:44:48 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-42-13.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:30 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:46:34 two- [~1@199.254.238.204] has joined #lisp 00:48:48 you know how someone can have 1/3 irish ancestry and 2/3 Italian ancestry if they use a time machine 00:50:25 I just realized that this persons ancestors correspond to the binary expansion of 1/3 00:51:16 and that it is trivial to find the recursive ancestry that gives you any rational fraction of a chosen ancestry 00:51:43 and so we learn about cauchy sequences 00:52:35 which could give us 1/sqrt(2) ancestry of A and 1 - 1/sqrt(2) of B 00:53:47 #1=(Irish . (Italian . #1#)) is the formula for 1/3 Italian 00:54:09 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:10 how would you do 1/sqrt(2)? 00:54:18 why do you need a time machine? 00:54:28 to get it to be exact 00:54:34 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:54:49 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:14 because otherwise we can only do proportions divisible by powers of 2 00:55:43 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-134-012.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 00:56:31 you can't just use varying time-lengths for generations? 00:57:33 come up with a way to get exactly 1/3 italian ancestry without a time machine 00:57:37 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:44 infinite ancestors 00:59:05 that would work if there had been infinitely many Italians and irish people 00:59:06 Bike: it's not possible to have infinite ancestors without a time-machine, since you are energy limited 00:59:45 The entropy of the universe will eventually reach a state in which sustaining human life is no longer possible, at which point you have to terminate 00:59:58 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 01:00:04 I mean, in an infinite universe. 01:01:09 one might think it's not possible to have a time machine either 01:02:04 that is true, but luckily a time machine is a simpler impossibility than infinite ancestors 01:02:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-194-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:02:37 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:03 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:03:19 -!- harj [~harj@69.80.101.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:33 harj [~harj@173-8-133-102-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:48 -!- harj [~harj@173-8-133-102-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:51 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@87.113.152.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:20:23 okay, I wasn't totally sure what you meant until you made me go ahead and do it 01:20:49 (labels ((ancestry (seq cur gens) 01:20:49 (if (zerop gens) 01:20:49 cur 01:20:49 (ancestry (cdr seq) 01:20:49 (/ (+ cur (car seq)) 2) (- gens 1))))) 01:20:49 (float (ancestry '#1=(1 0 . #1#) 1 500))) > 0.3333333 01:21:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:22:41 sorry I should have explained better 01:23:13 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:40 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 01:25:15 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:52 -!- bitonic`` is now known as bitonic 01:27:23 Hash-tables can only have :test of eq, eql, equal and equalp, correct? There is no standard way to extend the set of tests. 01:27:29 that is exactly what I meant by the binary expansion of 1/3 01:27:38 brunoscholz [~brunoscho@177.143.189.108] has joined #lisp 01:27:56 drmeister: no, and yes. 01:27:58 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:28:18 oh great 01:28:45 Which leads to the next question. How can it be extended? 01:28:49 but, yes to the first for all sense and purposes 01:29:12 drmeister: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Hash-Table-Extensions.html 01:29:38 drmeister, an implementation can extend to allow for other predicates, but CL just requires those 4 to work 01:29:49 agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:33 clhs 18.1.2.4 01:30:34 Visible Modifications by Language Extensions: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/18_abd.htm 01:30:44 buuuuut i'm not sure if anyone really caresaboutthat 01:30:59 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 01:31:53 Ok, I can handle that. 01:32:52 I'm implementing compilation of literal CONSes, ARRAYs, HASH-TABLEs and any pathological cross-referenced combination of them. 01:33:24 Bike: The MAKE-LOAD-FORM suggestion was right on the money. 01:34:38 It's remarkable to me that CL get's so far with just those data structures. 01:34:49 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1168076900.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 01:36:31 don't knock classes and structs 01:37:54 -!- wc [~a@173.254.255.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:38:23 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:39:02 Yes, well, enough philosophizing - onward. 01:39:17 drmeister, what other data structures do you think would allow CL to go further? 01:39:18 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:41:22 drmeister, also, do lexical closures count as a data structure? 01:41:47 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:04 I don't think there are any. I've been very impressed by the power of CL hash-tables. I don't use the STL implementations of hash-tables in C++ very often. Lots of map<>s - but no hash-tables. 01:42:08 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:20 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:32 drmeister, why can't map<> be a hash table underneath? 01:42:45 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-84-70-5.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:46 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:42:54 a map<> seems to just be an abstract interface for mapping keys to values, and a hash-table is a particular implementation of that kind of interface 01:43:18 bitonic` [~user@5add8527.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:08 CL needs btrees! functional btrees that work and that I do not have to debug etc! 01:45:54 -!- bitonic [~user@b0f9e33f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:47:13 Why aren't there good btrees in CL? 01:48:02 will that be your next LIL project after monads? 01:48:31 Is there a list of all classes defined in the standard? 01:49:48 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:35 clhs 4.3.7 01:50:36 Integrating Types and Classes: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_cg.htm 01:50:37 i think? 01:50:53 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:50:54 Hey, I have a different question, does anyone understand "type inference"? I'm going to have to figure it out at some point to speed up my compiler. Not now but probably in the summer. 01:50:55 b/c there is no class for (vector character *) :( 01:50:57 who wants to benchmark my data type library 01:51:58 Is it type inference a really hard problem or are there standard solutions to it by now? 01:52:21 drmeister, http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=959 01:52:23 drmeister: it's a pretty hard problem, but also a big research area, so there are nice solutions 01:52:36 drmeister, i wrote that little article above 01:52:59 Qworkescence: do people yell at you for conflating unions and sums? 01:53:06 no 01:53:14 should they be? 01:53:26 well, sums are tagged, as i understand it 01:53:36 why can't a sum be a union of N types with N projections? 01:53:47 that works 01:55:40 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:55:54 -!- two- [~1@199.254.238.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:55:57 drmeister, also see https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/b9f69558595a79c3a5c21fc6ff6c30e6ab66a1ee/HindleyMilner?at=default 01:56:14 wc [~a@173.254.255.83] has joined #lisp 01:56:15 Qworkescence: that's not going to work for CL. 01:56:17 a type inferencer for a scheme-like language 01:56:25 pkhuong, no but it's a start 01:56:49 pkhuong, of course CL is much harder and hairier :( 01:56:51 Quarkescence: Thank you, I filed those away and I'll read them later to start preparing my brain for the next stage of compiler writing 01:57:10 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:57:28 There is a lot of stuff written for scheme, not so much for common lisp. 01:58:25 What I learned about writing compilers I learned from Lisp In Small Pieces which really describes compiling scheme. 01:58:47 lisp is especially hard because it doesn't really have a theoretical underpinning 01:58:59 so we can't just set out with some beautiful ground equations 01:59:16 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:31 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1168076900.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:02:41 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-84-70-5.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:03:20 -!- brunoscholz [~brunoscho@177.143.189.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:03:52 My general problem is that right now I compile _everything_ to function calls. Even things like (+ a b). I'll need to figure out how to lower them to primitive LLVM operations. 02:04:32 I'm at least 100x slower than SBCL at the moment. 02:05:14 -!- bitonic` [~user@5add8527.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:05:15 I don't want to play into the prejudice that Common Lisp is slow. 02:05:42 with CL arithmetic I think + is better off as a function call (provided you can't tell that a and b are both fixnums or something, in which you inline, of course)? 02:06:56 I don't inline anything yet. That's another thing I have to get working. 02:07:32 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 02:07:39 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 02:07:49 LLVM will do inlining for me once I set things up properly. 02:07:52 maybe you could steal a few compiler macros from ccl? 02:08:42 Bike: Yeah, I have to start using compiler macros more. My motto has been: first CL correctness then speed. 02:09:57 By focusing on CL correctness I can write CL code that may run slow at first but I won't have to rewrite it later. 02:11:21 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 02:12:17 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:12:44 I need to hire someone who can enhance this CL compiler at some point. 02:12:49 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:09 -!- suodla is now known as dous_ 02:13:12 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:13:59 common lisp is slow? who is the judges that pre-judge the thing without ,say, looking at alioth or other benchmarks? :) 02:16:06 drewc: No, that's not what I meant. I meant _my_ CL implementation is slow and if someone who isn't familiar with other CL implementations uses it they may get the wrong general impression - that's what I meant. 02:17:43 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:17:54 I've been on the wrong (uneducated) side of arguments about CL speed in the past. I know better now. 02:18:08 drmeister: fair enough... I can suggest making it fast before others start using it :P 02:19:02 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:19:42 drewc: That's a concern I have with releasing it. So how quickly can I speed it up? Given that no one but I have seen the code it can't be answered at this point (sigh). 02:20:48 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 02:21:53 there's no shame in being a relatively slow scripting platform you can attach to larger C++ applications until you're ready to go mostly-CL. 02:22:15 my 2c. Waiting for release is probably worse than getting a few complainers because you can't beat SBCL "yet". 02:24:16 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.123.141] has joined #lisp 02:24:28 sykopomp: That's the angle I figured I'd go after initially. That's what its value is to me. 02:24:32 -!- Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 02:24:58 drmeister: I agree with sykopomp here, the speed doubles every 18 months for the same code ... if all you want/need is a scripting version that talks to C++, then do not worry about the speed so much at first. 02:25:58 Thanks, that's good advice. 02:26:34 isn't moore's law pretty much done? 02:27:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:27:50 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:28:52 I'm more into massive multi-processing anyway. 02:29:04 doesthiswork: end of 2013, things are suppose to slow down. But, that has been said a number of times, and it turns out that technology is somewhat, well, unknown. 02:29:14 I run on 96,000 core machines. 02:29:24 CRAY? 02:29:32 KRAKEN 02:30:18 heh ... that is my sea name ... Captain Krakken 02:30:47 Teragrid, KRAKEN: http://www.nics.tennessee.edu/computing-resources/kraken 02:31:04 By the way - yes, a CRAY 02:31:23 basically because I did not wear a belt and lost some weight ... 02:31:28 is that an initialism? i thought it was just a man's name. 02:31:30 I see they are up to 112,896 cores now. 02:32:04 but easy optimization is one of the eventual goals, once the LLVM IR is opened up to transformation from the lisp side? 02:34:23 Dalek_Baldwin: Optimization is one of the eventual goals. I'm going whole hog on this one. Common Lisp For Life! 02:34:43 is that like relay for life? 02:35:03 so you are common lisping as hard as you can to fight cancer 02:35:29 you'll have to make that clear... or maybe rename it once you get to that point 02:35:34 branding matters 02:36:51 Yeah, I'm still fishing for a good name. 02:36:53 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:38:30 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:43:27 univyrse [~univyrse@71-82-19-203.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:43:31 -!- univyrse is now known as sarcasmus 02:44:39 I try to expand my horizons, but there are so many programming languages and implementations out there that I'm easily put off by a bad first impression 02:44:49 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:44:51 -!- Fare [~fare@men75-12-88-183-198-131.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:46:36 scala means "scalable language" but it's pronounced skah-lah, not skey-lah, violating the principle of least surprise before you even see hello world 02:46:52 Dalek_Baldwin, hahaha 02:46:52 so I haven't gotten around to looking into it 02:47:12 pronounce it like scholar in a non-rhotic accent 02:47:28 Dalek_Baldwin, there are worse things about scala, like, for example, I believe you can + any two values, since every object can be toString'd, and so + will implicitly toString, and then concat 02:47:30 i pronounce it like the first part of scalable 02:47:49 Qworkescence: build times are worse than C++. end of story. 02:48:04 also Dalek_Baldwin, take a look at opendylan.org, they just released a brand new version of the manual book shit, and it's a really neat language 02:48:13 it takes a ton of tips from lisp 02:48:16 shit? 02:48:21 you know 02:48:26 the guide or whatever 02:48:34 not quite documentation, not quite textbook 02:48:37 i never knew what set dylan apart from, you know, lisp or ISLisp 02:48:37 somewhere in between 02:48:41 okay, I thought shit was the title of the manual book 02:48:42 heh 02:48:54 no sorry i didnt mean to confuse you 02:49:23 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 02:49:23 sarcasmus: that was my work to release that new version of the book. 02:49:58 dude no way 02:50:00 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:38 neal feinberg? 02:50:45 drmeister, name suggestion: Andantino Common Lisp 02:51:01 "puts" puts me off ruby 02:51:12 also Qworkescence, dylan is more OO than CL 02:51:15 sarcasmus: no. I did the conversion from Framemaker to the new tools to do the updated HTML, PDF, ePub. 02:51:16 you simply can't have that conjugation without a subject 02:51:22 Dalek_Baldwin, and RPLACD or TERPRI doesn't? 02:51:30 brucem, oh, well it works. i guess you did a good job! 02:51:44 I can write hello world without rplacd or terpri 02:52:02 Dalek_Baldwin, or PRINC? 02:52:18 they don't show up until about page 100 of any lisp book I read 02:52:32 plenty of time to ease you into it 02:52:34 you can write a function to do format nil and just do like (fputs "~A world" "hello") 02:52:38 it would be trivial 02:52:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:53:22 last I checked, (print "hello world") works 02:53:35 PRINT is not what traditional hello world is 02:54:15 PRINT is a way to write readable data 02:54:29 -!- agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:57:41 masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-84-70-5.gsp.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:14 brunoscholz [~brunoscho@177.143.189.108] has joined #lisp 02:58:20 harj [~harj@c-24-6-146-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:17 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:02:32 what is traditional hello world then? 03:02:48 write-line 03:02:59 imo anyways 03:04:01 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:04:15 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:44 "hello world" 03:05:10 word 03:05:44 I'll take your suggestion (setf word "hello world) 03:05:54 -!- masondesu [~textual@adsl-98-84-70-5.gsp.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:06:44 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 03:08:10 -!- sarcasmus [~univyrse@71-82-19-203.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:16:34 peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 03:16:35 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 03:17:19 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.123.141] has quit [Quit: chaitanya] 03:19:04 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:20:39 -!- brunoscholz [~brunoscho@177.143.189.108] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:42 If I want to iterate through every element of an array that can either be a vector or a multidimensional array should I use the length (cond ((vectorp XXX) (length XXX)) ((arrayp XXX) (array-total-size XXX))) and (row-major-index XXX YYY) where XXX is the array/vector and YYY is an index that goes from 0 to the length? 03:21:17 I need to account for the fill-pointer within vectors and there is no fill-pointer for multidimensional arrays. 03:22:06 what about array-has-fill-pointer-p 03:22:20 I guess it works either way. 03:23:44 It just seemed like there might be some function that handled both cases. No problem. I'm flexible. 03:24:40 I didn't know about array-has-fill-pointer-p - I'll use that. 03:28:01 -!- harj [~harj@c-24-6-146-171.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:58 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:31:36 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.21.47] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:41:55 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:24 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:47:17 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:50 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:21 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:59:47 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 03:59:54 Qworkescence: I read your article - is the Hindley-Milner type inference algorithm used in Common Lisp implementations? 04:00:30 i don't think CL's type system is amenable to it 04:01:29 Bike: It's the arbitrary subtypes thing right? 04:02:31 I don't think HM works with any subtyping at all? 04:05:40 HM type inference is used in Haskell - that's one of its features. But not Common Lisp - I'm saddened by that. I was misinformed. 04:06:09 well, that's because the haskell type system is very different 04:06:37 for one, types in CL are basically optional, you could "infer" everything to be T. haskell doesn't have a straight-up top type. 04:06:54 thoto_ [~thoto@g226122134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:09:15 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:10:23 -!- thoto [~thoto@e181161084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:10:24 drmeister: as said right after i pasted the article, HM is not for lisp, but it serves as a way of thinking 04:11:13 lisp types are very hairy, especially in the presence of DEFTYPE and other type constructors like AND/OR 04:11:30 what's hairy about deftype? it's just macros. 04:11:30 Quadrescence: I thought you were referring to something else regarding scheme. 04:11:43 Bike: okay i concede on that 04:11:47 (AND and OR, yes) 04:12:40 and then we have functions which don't return a single, regular type (unlike e.g. Haskell). For example, POSITION can return an integer or nil. That makes it inconvenient to check types 04:12:44 How does CL determine types of variables and functions then? Is it all done with explicit DECLAREs? 04:12:50 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 04:13:02 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 04:13:02 Do you mean, how do implementations do it? 04:13:10 Yup. 04:13:19 drmeister: sometimes you can infer, otherwise you need declares. A lisp implementation neednt know types at compile time anyway 04:13:30 You can do things like: (let ((a (+ b c))) ...) and in the ellipsis a is obviously a number, for a really basic example. 04:14:30 then, like Bike said, we have the top type, equivalent to an "any" type 04:15:02 More complicatedly you could have (let ((a (some-unknown-function))) (setf b (+ a 9)) ...), you can guess that a is a number in the ellipsis since otherwise using + on it would be undefined or a type error 04:16:10 Quadrescence: I'm trying to figure out how to lower integer and float math to primitive LLVM operations. These are essentially assembly language ADD/SUB/MUL/DIV/OR/AND/XOR etc. 04:16:21 drmeister: I forgot if I linked this earlier but this is my opinion of Lisp types and their breadth (or lack thereof): http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1495 04:16:43 drmeister: for integers you need to worry about bignums 04:17:07 Currently my FIXNUM's are wrapped within classes and wrapping and unwrapping them takes time. 04:17:21 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 04:17:31 Bike: on a topic related to this  do you know if any of the CL impls have tests for their type inferencing in this area? Like given ( some expr ) assert that it figures out the right types for some element of that expression? 04:17:40 Bike: Oh, yes - I forgot about that. 04:17:53 drmeister: You can do add_fixnum with something like "ADD, if overflow goto bignum_routine, else return" 04:17:59 brucem: I have no idea, unfortunately. 04:18:35 Bike: any suggestions on who might have a good idea? 04:18:58 compiler developers I guess? 04:19:31 Quadrescence: hm, did you not mention the weirdness of array types? 04:19:37 I see that it's going to be more complicated than 1. Apply type inference 2. Lower math to primitive ops 3. ??? 4. PROFIT! 04:19:52 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:20:16 Quadrescence: like how (typep #(4) '(array symbol)) could be T, I mean 04:21:29 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: rmathews] 04:22:33 Quadrescence: also - i was going to ask this with cl-algebraic-data-type too - couldn't you define an enumeration type with some empty structs and then the variant as a deftype (or ...)? 04:24:05 Bike: yes but i suspect having another struct might be faster, but i dont know 04:24:47 Bike: but it's an idea worth trying 04:25:01 i also would have mentioned that lisp code often deals with the "(or null x), now what if null is in x" problem with multiple values, e.g. gethash 04:25:38 which i think is I think the implementation strategy GHC is moving towards? maybe? 04:26:00 What is GHC? 04:26:11 Never mind 04:26:17 glasgow haskell 04:26:20 Glasgow Haskell Compiler 04:26:28 Bike: I mentioned the (or null x) above with POSITION 04:26:49 I mean in your post. 04:27:07 (I mean, you mentioned that it's a problem, but not how code often deals with it) 04:27:31 Would it be a workable idea to construct a math domain specific language within CL with limited types to do fast math. 04:29:08 I guess this is why it is easier to generate fast C++ compilers - they limit the types, and the types are all statically defined so its easier to lower integer math to machine language? 04:29:12 Quadrescence: also, (deftype list-of-length (length &optional cartype) (if (zerop length) 'null `(cons ,cartype (list-of-length ,(1- length) ,cartype)))) for the most embarassing dependent type ever. 04:29:28 C++/C compilers. 04:29:42 Bike: haha :))) 04:30:27 drmeister: Well you don't have to use inference. You could (for a start) just pay attention to type declarations and then fairly easily compile (locally (type fixnum a b c) (setf c (+ a b))) to machine add and such (with less ridiculous examples) 04:31:44 Quadrescence: probably my last nitpick of your article: you didn't mention that (typep whatever function-type) is an error. or actually values types at all, huh. 04:32:27 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:33:47 I see, so you layer the type declarations onto the code with DECLAREs and LOCALLY and then the compiler just has to convert variables that come in to the code and are returned from it. 04:33:55 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:34:10 drmeister: (remember, you don't have to verify declarations or anything, if you (defun foo (x) (declare (integer x)) (1+ x)) and then (foo 'bar) you can do whatever you want) 04:35:34 Bike: it wasnt my intent to discuss all of the possible ways of declaring types. i mostly wanted to talk about different type structures 04:35:48 drmeister: you probably wouldn't need locally practically speaking, since you can have declares in let bodies and so on. 04:36:05 Quadrescence: nitpicking, sorry. it's stuff i would have liked to see mentioned is all. 04:36:13 no, thanks for the comments 04:36:47 weirdly subtypep is allowed (but not required) to work with function types, even though typep is explicitly an error... 04:39:58 Then the $64,000 is why is SBCL so fast? I thought it was all my function calls that were burning up the cpu cycles. I can't make the processor faster but I can make it do less work. 04:40:24 have you looked at disassemblies? 04:42:09 Not really, not yet. Because that's like looking at a car with a microscope to figure out how it runs. 04:42:23 Not really, I know what you mean. 04:43:15 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:43:34 drmeister: in this case, it's closer to looking at a driver's path to figure out how she races fast. 04:43:44 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:44:16 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:12 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:47:01 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 04:47:03 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 04:48:29 also, if we have a hash-table, we can't infer the type of gethash very well 04:48:38 (hint hint p k h u o n g) 04:48:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:49:25 you would have to need specialized hash-tables, just like with arrays 04:49:58 ;) 04:50:46 Some implementations use tagged pointers, use the lower 2 or 3 bits of a pointer to indicate that the pointer represents a FIXNUM. That could eliminate a lot of boxing/unboxing. 04:51:02 drmeister: or, use a single bit! 04:51:37 drmeister: you still have boxing, it's just not as dramatic 04:51:50 you still have to deal unshift and shift 04:51:54 s/deal// 04:52:03 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:10 not for all operations 04:52:14 correct 04:52:45 I'm using boost::shared_ptr structures rather than raw pointers. They contain two pointers, one to the data, another to a reference counting structure. I was thinking of adding tagging to those. 04:52:59 Quadrescence: the most common integer operations are addition, subtraction/comparison, array indexing and multiplication by constants, iirc. Nearly all of that can work without any slowdown with 0-tagged fixnums. 04:53:03 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:10 I could store the fixnum in the data pointer and set the reference counted pointer to some low memory value 0x0001 to indicate FIXNUM. 04:54:56 why do you need shared_ptr for fixnums? 04:54:56 drmeister: out of curiosity, why did you decide to write a compiler to LLVM as opposed to LLVM binding/integration? 04:55:01 The latter seems more useful. 04:55:32 What do you mean LLVM binding/integration? A CL FFI to LLVM? 04:55:41 minion: cl-llvm? 04:55:43 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-llvm''. 04:55:55 stassats: I'm not sure that's maintained or well kept. 04:56:01 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:56:02 (I could be wrong.) 04:56:13 Quadrescence: you can become a maintainer! 04:56:44 I think I had enough C++/LLVM when I edited/revised someone's graduate thesis on it. 04:56:52 cl-llvm is broken, the C interface to LLVM is way behind the C++ interface - it's all the usual problems of interfacing what is really a C++ library to CL. 04:57:40 drmeister: I would find it useful to be able to define small DSLs in Lisp which I could compile to LLVM. The hardest part I think would be managing the interaction between the Lisp world and LLVM. 04:58:06 I have a comprehensive LLVM interface with my CL. It's easy because my CL is written in C++. 04:58:22 Quadrescence: something like https://github.com/pkhuong/VLBDB may be easier to maintain/fix and work with than raw LLVM. 04:59:09 pkhuong: interesting 04:59:11 thanks 04:59:57 Quadrescence: As we speak I'm compiling C++/CL/LLVM code. 05:00:32 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 05:00:43 I wonder what the status of MKCL is 05:01:33 Bike: oh, a benefit of having a struct as the "toplevel"/variant type is being able to specialize methods on the data type 05:01:57 true, didn't think of that. 05:02:17 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.16.205.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:04:57 chaitanya [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has joined #lisp 05:05:11 crap, neither "on lisp" nor "let over lambda" deal with &environment macro arguments. pg says "these features are used only by the most esoteric macros". is there a good introduction to the topic somewhere? 05:05:37 i think they're mostly used when you want to macroexpand 05:05:37 Dalek_Baldwin: there's no topic 05:05:54 Dalek_Baldwin: it's used to capture environment, that's the end of it 05:06:02 chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has joined #lisp 05:06:20 (defmacro (... &environment env) (if (constantp x env) ... ...)) 05:06:26 that's how you use it 05:06:28 well you could say that about anything 05:06:33 CONSTANTP is the only time I've used it I think 05:06:36 I'm trying to use it but I'm shooting myself in the foot at the moment 05:06:49 what are you trying to do? 05:07:09 implement a loop-fusion dsl 05:07:27 and you need &environment? 05:07:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:08:25 Dalek_Baldwin: I have example usage of it at the end of http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1352 05:08:36 Under "Going Further with Lisp: Trivial Optimizations" 05:08:38 well, I already have one version but it uses very hackish code-walking, and I'm trying to rewrite it with judicious use of macrolets and symbol-macrolets 05:09:18 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:09:18 -!- chaitanya_ is now known as chaitanya 05:09:46 Dalek_Baldwin: out of curiosity, are you re-inventing SERIES? 05:10:05 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 05:10:07 no, I'm following the example from the original paper on aspect oriented programming 05:10:24 Dalek_Baldwin: the environment that is passed to defmacro can only be used by functions like macroexpand and the environment functions described in "Lisp the Language 2nd ed". 05:11:40 what does "functions like macroexpand" mean? 05:11:49 typep or subtypep do not look like macroexpand 05:13:29 See page 220 "Lisp the Language". 05:13:36 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:34 Duane Rettig from Franz Inc. explained environments and their status in CL to me last December when I was trying to figure them out. They are the least well described aspect of Common Lisp. 05:15:40 And one of the most fundamental. 05:16:19 didnt rettig and toy write a paper 05:16:19 And very implementation dependent. 05:16:44 Dalek_Baldwin: an example of &env using On Lisp code: if you don't add an &env parameter to Graham's _F and pass it to get-setf-expansion, you can in some circumstances mutate a value in an outer binding which should have been shadowed by the inner binding you wanted to set 05:17:12 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 05:18:34 so the code in the book is buggy then? 05:18:36 Dalek_Baldwin: get-setf-expansion being the ansi replacement of the get-setf-method mentioned in the book 05:20:29 Dalek_Baldwin: get-setf-method was before my time, so I don't know what the exact semantics of that procedure were when On Lisp was published 05:21:08 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.81.177] has joined #lisp 05:21:15 paul0 [~paul0@177.42.35.107] has joined #lisp 05:23:25 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.32.143] has joined #lisp 05:24:05 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-204-182-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:46 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 05:27:04 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:27:16 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:29 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has joined #lisp 05:27:50 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 05:29:26 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:37 Quadrescence: your blog post seems to address a very similar problem domain anyway, so I'm reading the whole thing 05:30:47 :) 05:31:57 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:18 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:27 archonix_ [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 05:33:15 the idea is to reduce redundant computations in generalized operators that work on composite data structures, and figuring out what functionality can be composed while visiting a single child node and what behavior cannot 05:33:17 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:33:53 -!- Sgeo [~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:59 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.32.143] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 05:36:14 Dalek_Baldwin: If the data structure is tree form, I've seen a few brilliant people (e.g. Knuth) advocate the use of attribute grammars for that kind of question. 05:36:44 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:01 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:37:41 Dalek_Baldwin: Another name for that kind of optimization is "deforestation" 05:37:52 Haskell's GHC is very good at it 05:38:19 and is something I always wish lisp could be better at 05:38:50 Quadrescence: is the reducers stuff in Clojure interesting or not? 05:39:28 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:39:31 this is sort of pulling together ideas in a lot of different theory areas I've been trying to get into 05:39:46 brucem: reducing consing is only a small part of it. Enabling efficient compilation is also very good. I think a runtime approach is better suited to unityped languages though. 05:39:48 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 05:40:31 Quadrescence: I'd rather have a DSL in which there is nothing to deforest in the first place... just like I find it silly to try and recover parallel map from for loops. 05:40:34 it's the foundational example of AOP, but it's not at all obvious how it would be defined in terms of the concepts that became elements of AOP implementations like aspectj 05:41:25 pkhuong: maybe if it's well designed. My issue has been my eagerness to keep functions small and separate, but in the end I'm forced to make one huge fused blob of ugly code to make it perform decently 05:41:26 then I saw that pascal costanza gave up on aspectl because he said the ideas didn't really make sense in common lisp 05:41:46 although he didn't really elaborate on why 05:42:05 Dalek_Baldwin: well, the answer might lie in his new interests, e.g. layered methods. 05:42:56 pkhuong: the attribute grammar stuff looks 1) interesting, 2) a lot of new stuff for me to learn. 05:44:42 yes, but then I'm not sure whether I could implement this with those either 05:45:07 -!- archonix_ [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45:49 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.172] has joined #lisp 05:45:52 brucem: Clojure's reduces are interesting in that they address at least some of the issues we are discussing for primitive functional operators, but admittedly, I've but only looked at Clojure code. Never got my hands dirty from it 05:46:13 I'm following doug hoyte's advice to use macrolets and macroexpansion to let lisp do the code walking for me, because it was getting hackish and unwieldy otherwise 05:46:30 Clojure's reducers* 05:46:56 Dalek_Baldwin: Are you doing a lot of AST walking? Maybe it's time for, well, an AST? 05:47:18 arrdem_ [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-37-195.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 05:47:53 that's usually the point when I turn to scheme 05:48:33 because AST walking is much easier in scheme. 05:48:52 Dalek_Baldwin: there are libraries out there for converting code to CLOS classes 05:49:42 yeah, that's just one more piece to wrap my head around when I'm trying to get at the simple essence of the problem 05:50:07 but mostly if you can't easily do it with macros and maybe(symbol-)macrolet, maybe the requirements should be reviewed. 05:50:21 I found hu.dwim.walker but there's basically no documentation 05:51:24 akovalen` [~user@95.73.54.155] has joined #lisp 05:51:53 I'm sure I can do it with macros, but this is my first attempt at using macroexpand inside macros 05:53:00 Dalek_Baldwin: As I like to humorously point out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRK_YXG6SUY#t=1m37s 05:53:50 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.120.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:54 is this you? 05:55:03 no 05:55:14 i'm dorkier and more awkward 05:59:10 lack of documentation is a real problem when you're trying to figure out whether the library even does what you think it does after it's only been described to you in vague abstract terms 05:59:29 The presence of documentation can also cause that problem :( 06:01:08 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:55 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1168076900.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 06:03:13 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:03:19 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:38 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:03:39 yeah, sometimes there's 20 chapters of unintelligible documentation when all you really need is to see a few examples to know if you can use it 06:06:44 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:08:35 What I like least is where the documentation consists of plausible and highly intelligible works of fantasy and misdirection. 06:08:50 It's the most compelling argument for unit tests, imho. 06:08:52 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-108-27-92-95.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:09:12 They form of kind of verifiable documentation. 06:18:25 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 06:18:36 well, I've seen cryptic unit tests too 06:19:48 But at least they don't lie to you. :) 06:21:23 what about proof carrying code? ;) 06:21:54 a program is a proof 06:22:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:23:36 I still prefer expressive examples 06:23:56 it's because the example in this paper is so compelling that I'm using it as a jumping off point for trying out different ways of implementing language design concepts 06:24:01 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 06:25:28 the end goal is something you feel you can reach and and grab with your fingers, so you can maintain your focus while writing macros nested several backquotes deep 06:26:24 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-68-37.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:27:54 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 06:28:40 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:28:47 -!- vividrain [~user@adsl-98-65-174-166.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:37:19 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:37:42 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:39:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:43:34 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit 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[~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:19:54 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.81.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:20:33 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:38 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.81.177] has joined #lisp 07:20:48 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.18.35] has joined #lisp 07:22:03 vividrain [~user@adsl-98-65-181-210.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:10 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 07:26:43 -!- vividrain [~user@adsl-98-65-181-210.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:48 vividrai` [~user@adsl-74-243-5-189.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:17 agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:38 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@unaffiliated/wccoder] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:28:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:29:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:29:47 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:26 przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:02 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:31:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:32:11 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.158.32.188] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 07:35:09 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:37:00 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:44 -!- spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:38:58 is there some library to provide a tree-diff? I know that this is ill-specified, but I'd like to get the differences of two CONS-trees. 07:39:32 if I could ignore order within one level and get "element X _moved_ from Y to Z" it would be nice, too. 07:40:14 shouldn't that be trivial to write? 07:40:38 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:56 stassats: yes, if you ignore the fact that recognizing moved subtrees is NP-hard 07:41:09 arrdem: so what? 07:41:13 stassats: detecting _moves_ isn't that easy - unless you go for many, many in-depth comparisions 07:41:35 flip214: clojure.data/diff 07:41:47 clojure? 07:41:47 not clisp but should be a start 07:42:04 common lisp is not abbreviated as "clisp" 07:42:09 stassats: a lisp for the JVM 07:42:18 focus on immutability and concurrency 07:42:25 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:42:28 gee, i didn't know! 07:43:02 arrdem: missing :test, :key, :equal parameters ;) 07:43:24 flip214: ?? 07:45:22 you might have as well suggested a python library 07:45:35 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:23 -!- skanev [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has quit [Quit: skanev] 07:46:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:47:08 oh well... 07:48:41 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:48:49 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 07:50:27 arrdem: thanks, though ;) 07:50:39 flip214: haha you're welcome 07:50:49 flip214: maybe here? http://common-lisp.net/project/fset/ 07:51:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:51:34 dous__ [dous@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:41ec] has joined #lisp 07:52:01 -!- dous_ [~suodla@210.24.42.190] has left #lisp 07:53:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:21 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-123-253.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:54:47 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:55:18 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:55:56 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:56:03 prxq: looking, thx. 07:56:37 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 07:58:10 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:08 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:59:13 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 08:01:04 -!- agumonkey is now known as agumonbikey 08:06:32 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:07:02 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:10:32 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Quit: svs_] 08:13:24 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:15:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:18:53 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 08:19:25 do you guys know if there is a complexity theory channel? 08:19:36 i would doubt that 08:19:51 i can't imagine what would go on down there 08:20:47 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:20:47 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:20:47 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:21:40 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:22:27 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.81.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:24:00 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-68-37.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:24:04 a topic kinda related to complexity theory that I wanted to discuss with someone was how to measure "interesting" 08:24:05 morning lithp world! 08:24:26 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:24:47 someone said "Strategic decisions are meaningful if they change the shape of the (rest of the) decision tree" 08:25:12 python trademark .. we should go up in arms against the python software foundation! cmucl has named its compiler python since the dark ages.. 08:26:07 the beetles sold apple branded music since the 70s, i dont think we could make the case 08:26:17 doesthiswork: http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=762 08:26:32 -!- dous__ [dous@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:41ec] has left #lisp 08:26:42 Ive got his blog on rss 08:27:07 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 08:27:11 doesthiswork: sorry? 08:27:29 Bike: cool 08:27:30 thank you. that is what made me suspect that complexity theorist might be interested in similar things 08:27:41 zorkmoid: The Beatles organization, Apple Corps, and Apple Computer have had a number of arguments/legal actions over the shared name. 08:28:13 Bike: because apple (software) went into music, if they didn\t they wouldn't have had problems. 08:28:41 no, itunes was only the latest 08:29:09 let's see, the first case was... 1978. 08:29:40 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:30:13 Bike: right, which as settled and agreed that apple corp wouldn't do software, and apple computer wouldn't do music. 08:30:15 doesthiswork: complex systems is a wide topic, so your question about "compelxity theory" maybe is _too_ vague 08:30:33 even if apple is a lot complex.. 08:30:48 hehe, you are right, the complexity theory stuff is far more interesting 08:30:53 doesthiswork: well, kolmogorov is the usual start and that post went into it it fairly intuitively 08:31:09 pnpuff: I'm sure it is i just don't know how to make it concrete 08:31:11 testing is interesting :) 08:31:48 bounded kolmogorov complexity is nicer 08:32:11 (bounded in decompression time) 08:32:20 don't forget space! 08:32:43 .... 08:32:54 doesthiswork: I thought "An Introduction to Kolmogorov Complexiity and Applications" was a good textbook on this stuff. Goes into applications in thermo and Bayesian inference. 08:33:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:18 ok i'll check it out 08:33:23 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.187] has joined #lisp 08:33:30 and indeed bounded complexity. 08:33:54 bike: sorry for the dots, at firt I thought you meant bounded in compressed space not in space used while decompressing 08:34:02 eheh. 08:34:23 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:34:55 of course "interesting" is difficult to quantify because it's essentially defined in relation to an intelligent observer, and intelligent observers are notoriously hard to understand. but equational things like that are probably a good start. 08:36:12 skanev [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 08:37:32 there is definitely some species and earth specific aspects to interesting but i hoping that there is also something that is universal that we can pull out and calculate 08:37:47 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.230.238] has joined #lisp 08:38:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:38:55 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:39:54 doesthiswork: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Es9cNH7I8 this may be interesting as a start for the brain side. 08:40:38 doesthiswork: nondeterministc systems are quite "interesting", like dynamical systems and so on.. 08:43:42 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:43:50 toad trolling is hilarious 08:46:27 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:46:31 I tried evolving interesting sequences of bars once, but there wasn't enough disorder to bracket "interesting" 08:47:03 (: 08:47:04 interesting is not a self-consistent idea 08:47:14 what's the smallest non-interesting number? 08:47:25 nor a selfconsistentfield 08:47:31 that just proves that interesting isn't binary 08:47:34 nor a field 08:47:39 we could use reals. 08:48:32 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:48:34 I picked up that kolmogorov complexity book used... maybe I should crack it open someday 08:49:32 but now it's been ages since I've had to read any mathy notation 08:50:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:22 quantum physics is not too complex even if the theory is called "complex" 08:52:06 the same patterns can have different interestingnesses when they are heard vs seen 08:52:23 even "complex" is a wrong term, like "interesting" 08:52:39 a fairly simple 1d fractal can sound random 08:52:52 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:53:06 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:08 fractal dimension is not "complex" 08:54:25 even if is a dimension..like stupidity (: 08:55:38 excuse me, is this a channel about Common Lisp? 08:56:17 it is if you need it to be 09:00:01 doesthiswork: anyway this is an interesting channel.. 09:00:47 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:02:23 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.230.238] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:04:02 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-002-051.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:01 kennyd [~kennyd@95.168.97.238] has joined #lisp 09:06:22 nostoi [~nostoi@158.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:24 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.88] has joined #lisp 09:06:28 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.88] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:06:52 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.88] has joined #lisp 09:07:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:08:37 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:11:49 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:16:16 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@wireless-128-62-37-195.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:18:43 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 09:20:34 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Client Quit] 09:21:07 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:40c:489:23d7:b643:c1e0] has joined #lisp 09:23:37 huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has joined #lisp 09:24:51 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:25:54 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:26:21 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.88] has joined #lisp 09:27:19 nightfly [sage@serenity.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 09:28:32 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:40c:489:23d7:b643:c1e0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:29:25 what does the d in a number like 8.780000147092649d-26 signify? 09:29:32 double 09:29:38 clhs double-float 09:29:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_short_.htm 09:30:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-precision_floating-point_format 09:30:47 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@158.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:31:00 jerryzhou [~gururui@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 09:31:38 thank you 09:31:47 hi 09:31:59 Package QL does not exist. lisp 09:32:16 jerryzhou: you need to load quicklisp each time you start lisp 09:32:24 when i use this (ql:add-to-init-file) 09:32:31 what is wrong 09:32:40 you need first to load quicklisp 09:32:59 (ql:add-to-init-file) will then add a line to the init file so that it's automatically loaded 09:32:59 debugger invoked on a SB-INT:SIMPLE-READER-PACKAGE-ERROR in thread 09:33:11 jerryzhou: try (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") first 09:33:27 under sbcl? 09:33:34 if that's what you use 09:33:46 what do you use 09:33:53 for lisp programming 09:33:59 newlisp?quicklisp? 09:34:06 newlisp? are you kidding? 09:34:16 quicklisp is just a way for getting packages 09:34:23 so what is the different ? 09:34:34 between what? 09:34:52 i mean what is your lisp programming enviroment? 09:35:37 SBCL is a good implementation 09:36:48 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:09 debugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread 09:37:10 #: 09:37:10 Bad header line in /home/gururui/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/releases.txt -- "" 09:37:13 my god 09:37:23 (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 09:37:29 this still wrong 09:38:15 well, try deleting ~/quicklisp and installing it again 09:38:41 how to del? 09:38:49 just rm -rf 09:38:53 i just want to see cl-USR> 09:38:58 jerryzhou: to program in lisp choose a lisp implementation (ccl, sbcl, abcl, ecl ...), a lisp IDE ( preferably emacs , with a superior lisp interaction mode for emacs: slime) 09:39:00 but two days i sitll canot 09:39:01 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:39:38 jerryzhou: follow http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 09:40:02 i saw that today 09:40:08 jerryzhou: follow it. 09:40:31 ok let me rm -rf ~/quicklisp first 09:40:49 if you're not already an Emacs user, read http://irreal.org/blog/?p=1693, it's interesting and gives some other tools/editors/IDEs for writing lisp 09:41:29 yeah ok thanks geeks if i had question i would be here 09:41:46 jerryzhou: but? you're just here for whining? 09:41:47 anyway i am under slackware 09:41:52 what is your os? 09:41:56 good 09:42:09 H4ns: i think that's just a language problem 09:42:14 what is your operating system 09:42:19 stassats`: ah, ok. 09:42:34 jerryzhou: your distro is good 09:42:38 yes my first language is not english 09:42:38 jerryzhou: operating system flavours don't matter much 09:42:45 no problem due to the distro you're using 09:43:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:43:16 -!- skanev [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Quit: skanev] 09:43:56 english not being the first language is a bad excuse, many people in #lisp are not native english speakers 09:44:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:44:36 bitonic` [~user@5add8527.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:15 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:46:21 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:49:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:51:43 jerryzhou: are you using actually clisp as your lisp implementation? 09:52:36 what did you mean 09:52:41 i have sbcl 09:52:43 pnpuff: jerryzhou is using sbcl 09:53:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:54:33 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has joined #lisp 09:58:55 -!- thoto_ [~thoto@g226122134.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 09:59:39 Fare [~fare@men75-12-88-183-198-131.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:11 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@199.180.254.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:01:22 huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.230.238] has joined #lisp 10:01:31 jerryzhou: take a look at http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ to get and install properly quicklisp. The example is luckily referred to sbcl. 10:01:56 #P"/Users/quicklisp/.sbclrc" 10:01:57 * (quit) 10:01:57 $ 10:02:08 now i had done this successed 10:02:11 so what is next 10:02:21 To load software, use: 10:02:21 (ql:quickload system-name) 10:02:24 what is that? 10:02:42 przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:45 did you follow http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ ? 10:02:49 did you install slime? 10:02:53 jerryzhou: read the above link I posted to you.. read the documentation! 10:02:57 now it's time for (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 10:03:01 jerryzhou: it means that to loead SYSTEM-NAME you write (ql:quickload SYSTEM-NAME); where SYSTEM-NAME is a system name. 10:03:55 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 10:04:22 ok 10:04:36 jerryzhou: Installation an Basic Commands sections are what you need 10:04:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:05:45 does (progn #.(require :sb-sprof) (sb-sprof:start-profiling) (loop repeat 1000 do (compile nil '(lambda (x) x)) do (sb-ext:gc :full t))) crash SBCL for anybody else? 10:06:41 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:217e:c2c:df75:a461] has joined #lisp 10:07:02 rather, (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (progn #.(require :sb-sprof) (sb-sprof:start-profiling) (loop repeat 1000 do (compile nil '(lambda (x) x)) do (sb-ext:gc :full t))))) 10:07:09 or just in slime 10:08:59 stassats`: linux, sbcl 1.1.4, no crash but seems to hang (C-c C-c is possible) 10:09:29 well, it takes a long time if run successfully 10:09:38 ok i had done 10:09:42 cl-usr 10:09:43 thanks 10:09:48 doesn't seem to crash on another machine, but with a different version of sbcl 10:10:03 could be bad hardware... 10:10:23 *stassats`* isn't encouraged by that prospect 10:10:26 doesn't crash here but doesn't seem to be using much cpu either 10:10:49 ah, i'm using safe-points 10:10:54 another machine isn't 10:11:33 let's try to test with safe-points there too 10:11:46 stassats`: i get illegal function call with sbcl 1.0.57 10:17:01 stassats`: illegal function call for me too, SBCL 1.1.4.29-c2ce03b (amd64) 10:17:54 that's not relevant, try #.(not (require :sb-sprof)) instead 10:17:55 -!- agumonbikey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:18:06 but don't bother, actually, it's due to safe-points 10:18:22 unless you have safe-points enabled, of course 10:20:04 yep, running on another machines confirms it 10:20:27 finally, i've been getting this error randomly for the last couple of months, now i have a reliable test-case 10:20:45 yay 10:20:50 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 10:21:33 now for the fun part, finding what causes it and fixing it 10:22:21 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF886D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:25:09 anyone knows if the SBCL's versions supported by *BSD platforms are tested with or without linux emulation? 10:25:17 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF9799.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:25:47 (maybe without i suppose) 10:27:06 anyway was only a curiosity.. 10:27:23 przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF8876.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF886D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:28:09 wokko [~wokko@CPE-121-223-159-89.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:28:43 -!- wokko [~wokko@CPE-121-223-159-89.lns2.bat.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 10:28:53 -!- vividrai` [~user@adsl-74-243-5-189.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:30:16 anyway I think there is at least one not supported port at the moment. 10:36:10 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:37:19 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:23 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 10:40:23 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 10:40:23 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:40:39 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF8876.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:43:06 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:44:56 pnpuff: what do you mean by "tested with linux emulation"? 10:44:58 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:45:18 pnpuff: the freebsd version of sbcl runs in freebsd, not within the linux emulation of freebsd. 10:45:20 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:47:58 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 10:48:07 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:51:22 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:29 H4ns: i mean mainly what is reported in Chapter 11 on http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/linuxemu.html 10:52:24 ehu [~ehu@109.35.204.65] has joined #lisp 10:52:36 pnpuff: if you want to use linux binary emulation on freebsd, you need to use the linux version of sbcl 10:54:28 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.59.125] has joined #lisp 10:55:35 H4ns: if i have a supported toolchain I could even try to build sbcl from souces for a given system with a supported architecture, right? 10:55:45 *sources 10:56:10 I mean not only use a binary version 10:56:35 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:56:47 you could build a linux sbcl when you have a linux toolchain running in the linux emulation of freebsd, true 10:56:52 but why bother? 10:57:29 H4ns: I'm reading the INSTALL file, and my OS current version is not supported.. 10:58:53 *actually i'm using an OS not supported, so i'm asking how try to build sbcl 10:59:49 pnpuff: i don't know enough about that, sorry. what os do you want to build sbcl for? 11:00:23 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 11:02:59 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:03:02 H4ns: This is not the point, maybe the simplest solution is to enable the linux kernel emulation and try to build from the latest version sources (but I have to try) 11:03:55 -!- EvilTosha [~eviltosha@isa1.alpha-pc.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:04:05 if you want to build for linux, using linux is probably easier than setting up a userland for building sbcl in freebsd's linux emulation 11:04:11 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:04:13 but who am i to suggest easy? 11:04:33 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 11:07:23 H4ns: at the moment i'm not on freebsd, anyway if you read the INSTALL file and you read the table "Supported operating systems and architectures" at the end, you find that not all the _current_ versions of *BSD are supported. 11:08:30 i'm confused. you want to build for an operating system that you don't want to disclose, but you want to do it using the linux version of sbcl in the linux emulation of freebsd? 11:10:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:10:23 H4ns: not the linux version, I want use the sbcl-1.1.4-source.tar.bz2 file. 11:10:39 silenius [~jl@217.111.70.211] has joined #lisp 11:14:41 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:17:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-39.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:46 H4ns: so i think is possible to use the linux emulation layer to build from source, but I have to try this option. 11:18:07 this is nonsense 11:18:26 if your OS is not supported, building from a supported one wouldn't magically make your OS supported 11:18:49 pnpuff: you need the linux emulation layer only if the tool chain for your target os is only running on linux. and even then, installing linux and building there would probably be easier. 11:19:16 pnpuff: what OS do you want SBCL to run on? 11:19:40 stassats`: he does not want to disclose that, it appears. 11:19:46 sekrit-bsd it seems 11:20:19 phantom-bsd 11:20:27 :) 11:20:38 sbcl runs on freebsd,netbsd, and openbsd from the looks ... a bit older versions, but porting a newer shouldn't be that terrible 11:20:48 using linux emulation to cross compile for a bsd is, say, not the best idea i have heard today. 11:21:02 versions 3.4 and 3.5 are too old guys 11:21:05 can't you cross compiler sbcl? 11:21:18 H4ns: what is the best solution? 11:21:21 pnpuff: versions 3.4 and 3.5 OF FUCKING WHAT? 11:21:30 sparrowOS, naturally 11:21:41 H4ns: be nice .. 11:21:54 i'll have lunch instead. enjoy. 11:21:55 lol 11:22:12 "lol" i meant 11:23:09 well, it's pnpuff, don't remember him saying logical and intelligible things much, so it's probably a waste of time talking to him 11:23:48 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:25:05 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 11:29:58 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:36:49 thank you quicklisp setup 11:37:01 so what i should learn next? 11:37:22 minion: please tell jerryzhou about PCL 11:37:22 jerryzhou: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 11:37:32 minion: please tell jerryzhou about gentle 11:37:32 jerryzhou: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 11:37:37 stassats`: maybe I'm not "intelligible" but I'm not rude as you are. 11:37:49 a gentle logical form 11:38:18 i see wow 11:38:20 thanks 11:39:08 pnpuff: sometimes being rude is nicer than fucking around with people's time. 11:40:01 jdz: you're now fucking mu time. 11:40:05 *my 11:40:33 sometimes i think that pnpuff is just an advanced eliza 11:40:45 pnpuff: also, destroying people's willingness to help other people is very rude to people who will come here after you for help. 11:40:48 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:41:15 jdz: I've not received any help 11:41:24 .oO(more popcorn, please) 11:41:41 i don't understand why anyone answered pnpuff after he did not want to tell what os he's trying to run sbcl on 11:41:48 pnpuff: go see doctor for your medication, you won't get any here. 11:42:26 you won't get any help if you don't ask intelligent questions 11:42:43 or at least, intelligible 11:43:36 prxq: I've not received any help , only personal attack 11:43:41 for example "i want to build SBCL on SuperOS 4.2, on FastPC-x68, is that possible?" 11:44:34 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:59 pnpuff: not really. you were criticized for not asking questions in a useful way 11:45:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:45:17 afaict, that's pretty accurate 11:45:43 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:52 So what, I thought you guys were mind readers. 11:46:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:47:10 I was searching for a general solution to apply not ony to this particular case 11:47:31 pnpuff: there is no general solution, sbcl is host and os specific 11:48:42 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:51:14 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:51:33 stassats`: stop trolling: your sister uses a SuperOS on a FastPC, clear? 11:51:43 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:51:52 agumonbikey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:19 -!- agumonbikey is now known as agumonkey 11:56:30 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:57:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:58:17 pnpuff: while some people have been rude to you, that doesn't mean you have the right to be rude back, calmn down. 11:58:26 everyone ... calmn down.. it is just software. 11:58:36 at least i had a decent lunch. 11:58:48 H4ns: what did you have? 11:58:57 -!- bitonic` [~user@5add8527.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:59:23 zorkmoid: pasta with salmon in orange/coconut sauce. that's what distinguishes "nice" from "decent". 11:59:33 H4ns: sounds very nice 11:59:40 and "off topic" from "off topic" for that matter 12:00:19 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 12:03:01 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:09:12 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:15 jdz: are you maybe the doctor? 12:10:00 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 12:11:10 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 12:11:35 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:13:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:13:27 jdz: maybe the doctor of the doctor is another diseased doctor. 12:13:41 p_l: ping? 12:14:34 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:14:44 H4ns: pong 12:14:45 no route to ghost 12:17:02 lol 12:17:41 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:34 svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-173-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:44 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:14 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:17 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:22:31 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 12:22:56 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:217e:c2c:df75:a461] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:23:02 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 12:25:27 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-68-37.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:32:33 -!- jerryzhou [~gururui@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:34:22 bitonic` [~user@dyn902-63.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:36:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-121.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:59 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:01 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:21 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:20 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 13:07:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:12 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 13:15:44 ahungry [~null@99.40.10.216] has joined #lisp 13:18:12 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:21:52 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:19 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 13:36:58 Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has joined #lisp 13:45:36 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:15 Today's fortune(6) surprised me somewhat: The absence of labels [in ECL] is probably a good thing. -- T. Cheatham 13:47:25 Probably just a coincidence though :) 13:48:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:48:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECL_programming_language ? 13:48:27 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@95.168.97.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:50:14 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 13:55:13 sellout- [~Adium@24-136-4-170.c3-0.fld-ubr1.chi-fld.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:33 -!- fasta_ is now known as fasta 13:56:31 Yeah :) 13:59:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:59:26 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 13:59:53 Yuuhi [benni@p5DC63A14.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:53 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:04:34 skanev_ [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 14:06:10 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0105d6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07:15 -!- 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joined #lisp 19:13:45 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Client Quit] 19:18:38 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:26 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 19:23:24 expt [~travis@fwsm.comcastnets.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:24 zorkmoid-2 [1fd1034f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.209.3.79] has joined #lisp 19:25:36 litphy evening! 19:28:45 today we smoke a nice big fat cigar, drink some scotch, and write some lisp! 19:28:46 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-146.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:30:15 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 19:33:55 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39:35 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-68-37.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:43:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:44:39 write drunk... edit sober ;) 19:47:47 -!- agumonkey [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:48:37 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-68-37.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:51:44 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:51:51 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 19:53:53 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:20 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-52-28.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-52-28.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:54:20 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:57:19 bitonic`` [~user@5add0625.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:47 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 20:00:06 -!- bitonic` [~user@5add8527.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:03:24 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.146.194.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:47 sxlnxdx [~tim@150.134.234.30] has joined #lisp 20:04:59 expt: nah, not drunk, one dram and thats it for me.. 20:05:15 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.146.194.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:17 symbole [~user@krlh-4d02b54b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:09:51 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:12:42 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:14:48 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:50 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 20:20:10 dbushenko [~dim@178.120.172.37] has joined #lisp 20:25:20 antgreen [~green@out-on-255.wireless.telus.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:22 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:28:02 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5DC63A14.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:29:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29:48 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:31:05 -!- zorkmoid-2 [1fd1034f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.31.209.3.79] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:31:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:32:08 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:23 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:36:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:40:12 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:40:20 doesthiswork [~Adium@75.87.251.5] has joined #lisp 20:40:37 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9A631.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:06 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:37 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:43:48 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:03 SrPx [~SrPx@189-105-228-187.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:45:19 splittist [~splittist@99-21.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:45:21 morning 20:45:51 hi splittist 20:45:56 morning in NZ ? 20:50:29 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:20 fe[nl]ix: no doubt. I have adopted what someone told me was the #dylan approach, that it is always morning. Just like everyone on #lisp is 33(?) years old. 20:53:08 :D 20:53:22 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@189-105-228-187.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 20:53:22 I don't turn 33 until July :P 20:53:59 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:54:02 SrPx [~SrPx@189-105-228-187.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:54:08 -!- antgreen [~green@out-on-255.wireless.telus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:06 leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9A631.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:33 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@189-105-228-187.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:49 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:03 -!- spligak [~spligak@2607:f0d0:1100:8026:2e41:38ff:feaf:1ff7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:56:46 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:57:28 -!- kiwnix [~egarcia@unaffiliated/kiwnix] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:41 kiwnix [~egarcia@unaffiliated/kiwnix] has joined #lisp 20:58:50 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-161-117.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:00:01 -!- sxlnxdx [~tim@150.134.234.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:47 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:27 splittist: I think we were 31, back in the day 21:08:50 SrPx [~SrPx@189-105-228-187.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:09:38 -!- Straylight [~user@data.expressionanalysis.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:10:37 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:03 Krystof: yes, 31 rings a bell. Let's stick with that. Of course, 31 isn't what it used to be, but that's half the point. 21:14:18 replcated [~user@static-241-143-171-68.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:18 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:20:22 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 21:20:25 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@189-105-228-187.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 21:21:31 you mean it used to be old and now it's young? 21:28:39 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-161-117.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:57 oscar wild knew some ladies who had been 31 for years 21:29:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:29:57 SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.67.186] has joined #lisp 21:30:20 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-152.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:31 :D 21:38:25 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:38:54 leoc` [~leoc.git@p57B9BEC9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:56 foeniks [~fevon@p5091FA77.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:02 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:44 (oh god, I'm 31 now) 21:40:56 (and I thought that was an unreasonably old age to be at) 21:41:04 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.67.186] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 21:41:52 *akovalenko* is 33 but remembers that feeling of pending (unsigned-byte 5) overflow 21:42:32 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p57B9A631.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:43:00 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-188-20.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:43:11 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:46:47 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:48:06 ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 21:52:20 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:53:04 Everyone is 31, but we don't specify a base... 21:55:16 my daughter is not yet 31 in any base :) 21:55:27 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:34 -!- sellout [~Adium@24-136-4-170.c3-0.fld-ubr1.chi-fld.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:13 -!- bitonic`` [~user@5add0625.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56:15 Is she on #lisp? Now you know why! 21:56:18 (not everyone is 3n+1 anyway, and n>3 adds another restriction) 21:57:02 sellout- [~Adium@24-136-4-170.c3-0.fld-ubr1.chi-fld.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:10 only if you consider the digits as always being 0,1,2,3... They could be 3,1,Q,,... 21:58:13 31 is only 2 in base -1 21:59:09 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 21:59:40 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:47 why restrict yourself to integer bases ? 22:02:41 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:45 because *print-base* only allows integers, of course 22:03:47 Quick, someone do a CDR to allow bases like (sqrt -)... 22:04:50 bitonic [~user@02dab79f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:07:39 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 22:07:41 when you use bases like 1/10 numbers are written in the opposite direction from usual 22:08:18 Quick, someone write a CDR to support p-adic representations. 22:10:31 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:35 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-36-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:10:55 svetlyak40wt 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