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That would be illegal in most places. 01:07:55 com 64? 01:07:57 hi tekk!! 01:08:15 I wrote some lisp code by referncing the hyperspec 01:08:37 was like a huge bag of goodies 01:08:42 apply kicks butt 01:08:52 and now i am the demigod of #' 01:09:17 Is it time for booga's silent meditation? 01:11:32 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:14:28 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.176.17] has joined #lisp 01:14:29 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:16:12 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:20 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.217.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:20:00 -!- Guest71186 [~dragan@79-101-226-59.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:20:58 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@64.30.112.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:11 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:48 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.176.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:20 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-112-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 01:36:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-174-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:36:33 agumonkey [~agu@167.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:29 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.230.189] has joined #lisp 01:37:37 LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:59 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:30 -!- antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:38:59 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.230.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:23 stopbit [~stopbit@68.50.168.116] has joined #lisp 01:45:45 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has joined #lisp 01:46:10 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.169.6] has joined #lisp 01:50:41 k0001 [~k0001@host168.181-1-205.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:52:07 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:24 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 01:58:33 sdemarre [~serge@122.75-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 01:58:36 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:37 antgreen [~green@207.112.118.212] has joined #lisp 02:00:38 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:01:24 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@50-1-84-225.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:01:48 who was dr zhivago anyhow? 02:03:47 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-121-48.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:04:59 A dead jew on a tram. 02:05:39 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:50 -!- gigamonk` [~user@50-1-84-225.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:56 zomg I looked it up 02:12:03 too many words 02:12:13 it it some art house goon stuf? 02:12:48 infamous arthouse studio MGM 02:13:54 JPeterson [~JPeterson@213.103.210.215] has joined #lisp 02:15:51 seems like a wallow in life sux kinda stuff? 02:17:05 I have come to think that anticapitalists like such art... 02:17:37 I know world isn't perfect but have confidence that capitalism and the freedom of individuals can fix all problems since solutions already have existed for 100+ years. 02:17:47 this is #lisp. 02:18:45 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@70-36-236-51.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 02:19:04 booga: please stop 02:19:18 I already stopped 02:20:52 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:38 -!- LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:05 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:27:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 02:29:12 why are there so few CL-repos on github? 02:30:23 wws [~billstcla@p-74-209-19-212.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:16 -!- Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:29 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:31:31 -!- sdemarre [~serge@122.75-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:32:25 -!- wws [wws@clozure-4EE6B5A7.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:33:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:34:49 Not sure if it's really under represented by usage though 02:36:19 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:37:22 -!- kneecaps [~kneecaps@c-68-54-113-32.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:17 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:16 -!- agumonkey [~agu@167.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:45:16 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:45:54 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 02:46:12 Paul Graham mentioned faking continuations with closures, how do I do that? 02:46:31 also how do I have a web app fork a process that then has a conversation with the client? 02:47:02 seems awesome way to use 4 cpu boxes without multithreading? 02:47:19 booga: What is a continuation? 02:47:45 something to do with saving state a a point and then moving on from there 02:47:49 booga: No. 02:48:01 booga: Find out what a continuation is. 02:48:01 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:51:07 -!- ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:15 ok now I read the wikipedia on it 02:51:46 What is a continuation? 02:52:35 j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:22 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 03:02:47 trof1 [trof@178.120.43.133] has joined #lisp 03:03:29 -!- wws [~billstcla@p-74-209-19-212.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:04:27 -!- trof [trof@178.120.29.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:04:40 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:07:32 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:33 -!- trof1 [trof@178.120.43.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:04 a continuation is an abstract representation of the control state of a computer program. 03:11:22 -!- _tca [~user@207.91.25.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:12:53 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:14:57 Meaningless. 03:15:21 ok you tell me then 03:15:29 I cant get a handle on it. 03:15:38 What a continuation is, is a function that you can call with the result of the program so far in order to continue the execution of the program. 03:16:05 Say you want (print (+ 1 2)) 03:16:27 First you need to compute (+ 1 2) then continue the program with the result of 3. 03:17:17 The rest of this program is print, so that's what you call. 03:19:31 hm 03:19:31 ok 03:19:55 (funcall k (+ 1 2)) 03:19:56 how does this get rid of or hide statelessness in HTML? 03:20:04 It doesn't. 03:20:23 Continuations have nothing to do with state per se -- they have to do with workflow. 03:20:35 Think of each url as a stage in a workflow. 03:20:44 ok 03:21:14 Depending on what link is clicked, the stage continues to different stage. 03:22:22 ok 03:23:32 You can then try to encode all of your state into each url, but that's generally not such a great idea. 03:24:04 It vaguely made sense before everyone decided that javascript was actually a good idea after all. 03:24:30 hm 03:24:58 But even then it wasn't a particularly scalable idea. 03:25:12 because the state eats memory? 03:25:34 Well, you don't have that much space in a url. 03:27:26 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:49 isn't there anotehr way to handle it? weblocks uses continuations. 03:28:06 You can balance the state between the url and the server, sure. 03:28:09 fisxoj [~fisxoj@24.12.190.29] has joined #lisp 03:28:33 was just curious. i learned a lot from your post above. thanks for the explanation. 03:28:35 But then you need to maintain that state indefinitely or have some arbitrary expiry. 03:28:54 makes sense 03:29:18 I think rails does this and its why rails eats ram bigtime 03:29:59 Personally, I think that a simpler answer is to tell people who disable javascript to fuck off. 03:30:06 well, there is always some tradeoff somewhere. currently hardware is cheap. 03:30:10 And then you can just manage the state locally. 03:30:34 Also, telling people who use IE the same thing, seems to make life easier. 03:30:38 so the new way it to do client server with javascript? I noticed my fav broswer opera nukes github 03:30:59 Zhivago: i am so glad to have lived to see the day where we can actually do this without really blinking twice about it 03:31:14 Well, it keeps the resources where they get deleted appropriately. 03:31:34 personally, i am interested in the server side continuations approach, but i have not had to actually code up anything that scales so i don't really k now. 03:31:42 i don't like the idea of intelligence on the client at all 03:32:06 but you are right, it does allow for more efficient use of hardware 03:32:06 I think that continuations make sense for work-flow systems -- that's what they are, after all. 03:32:10 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:01 Zhivago: what would be the difference between continuations and a finite state machine then? from a big picture perspective 03:33:28 nm googling 03:33:40 thephoer1n [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:59 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.22.241] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:34:02 A FSM is composed of continuations. 03:34:16 oh 03:34:28 well that is starting to fit neatly together then 03:34:30 intersting 03:34:37 adelgado [~TomSawyer@66.229.185.165] has joined #lisp 03:35:26 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 03:35:44 cdidd [~cdidd@37-145-190-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:35:46 j0ni_ [~j0ni@66.228.41.128] has joined #lisp 03:36:21 Why don't you like using the client for computation, btw? 03:37:10 i have always thought that dogfooding is the best approach. keeping it on the server forces me to understand and take responsibility for the environment. 03:37:45 Fair enough. 03:37:57 with client side, i am always playing catchup. anyone can can write a new client and *bam* yet another permutated implementation of a w3c spec that it self isn't entirely feature rich. 03:38:21 practically, i realize i am making things harder than they need to be 03:38:22 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@66.229.185.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:34 Well, you're always going to have that, and mostly that will affect display rather than computatio. 03:38:57 adelgado [~TomSawyer@66.229.185.165] has joined #lisp 03:38:59 deleuz [~derrida-f@www.informalcode.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:59 that is true, yeah. ignoring ie, you don't have too much to worry about in terms of js 03:39:33 learning about fsm vs continuations was really helpful though. i have had the idea of writing this web based app that lets users design their own forms via the web 03:39:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- ered-away [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:48 -!- thephoeron [~thephoero@CPE0024369f3a03-CM00194792a698.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:39:49 and then hook up the forms with logic blocks that do stuff with data between one form and the next 03:40:04 Sounds like workflow. :) 03:40:11 -!- thephoer1n is now known as ThePhoeron 03:40:11 i can now visualize some generic way of getting that to happen 03:40:41 yeah, well in business everythign is workflow. right now i have a client ordering computers and the process is somewhat manual. 03:40:52 Although I am not convinced that continuations are a good approach for that. 03:41:09 primarily because to automate it we either pick a framework or use something off the shelf that forces the entire org into it 03:41:10 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:41:20 -!- j0ni_ is now known as j0ni 03:41:26 would be nice to let users create forms for non essential stuff and just get data moving around freely. 03:41:37 gigamonkey [~user@50-1-84-225.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:54 I think that were I to do that I would want to set it up as a data-flow problem, and then queue the pending decisions for display and resolution through forms. 03:42:20 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.169.6] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:42:36 how would a data flow problem not be handled by something like a continuation? what other approach would guarantee stuff is done in deterministic order? 03:42:52 Well, who cares what order it is done in? 03:43:05 .. right. i see what you are say ing. 03:43:31 conditionals only where they are needed 03:43:46 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:43:59 Well, I was thinking more about joins and transforms and flattens and emissions and so on. 03:44:26 So that multiple workflows can converge and diverge. 03:44:45 i can visualize that 03:44:46 On the other hand, that might confuse the crap out of people, so ... 03:45:10 well, i don't know. i mean the workflows become kind of like dsl's but in the real world 03:45:22 accpac and other erp's are like how you describe 03:45:51 each member of an accounting/payroll department has a specific set of workflows that they learn and fulfill as part of their role 03:46:16 yet they all work at the same time and their workflows can change drastically depending on demand 03:46:19 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 03:46:23 Well, I'd prefer to have each member have different forms they can answer instead of workflows. 03:46:51 ered-away [~ered@75.101.56.39] has joined #lisp 03:47:00 Is there good book that details programming with continuations? 03:47:00 Then as the forms are filled the workflows can continue without the people necessarily knowing about the flows. 03:47:17 Most books on compiler development should. 03:47:24 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:40 Continuations are a classic mechanism for linearization of code. 03:47:56 -!- cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:48:03 You can practice doing CPS (continuation passing style) transforms by hand to internalize the process. 03:48:22 Having done that, you can then pretty much forget about it and have it done mechanically. 03:48:23 i will add that to my todo 03:49:35 interesting post on fsm's being a bit old school: http://aigamedev.com/open/article/fsm-age-is-over/ 03:49:37 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 03:53:22 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:54:37 Hey #lisp, I know it's easy to get a row out of any array with a displaced array. Any thoughts on how to do the same for columns? I want them to be setf-able references to the original array 03:54:44 LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:50 any thoughts or search terms would be appreciated 03:55:57 fisxoj: nope. You'll have to create your own data structure 03:56:08 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@66.229.185.165] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:56:29 -!- deleuz is now known as derrida 03:56:30 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@www.informalcode.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:56:30 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 03:56:46 pkhuong, I was afraid of that 03:57:14 thank goodness it's lisp, shouldn't be too hard 03:59:40 some implementations might have something. If I had a spare week, I might try to do that for SBCL 04:01:06 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:08 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:14 cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has joined #lisp 04:02:27 -!- ebobby [~fms@199.21.86.106] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:04:36 -!- neufeld is now known as neufeld_AFK 04:04:50 I guess it should be easy enough to define a class that has an array in it, and calculates the right cell 04:05:13 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:25 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 04:14:27 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:26 chaitanya [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has joined #lisp 04:15:29 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 04:17:28 Hrmm  wanted parameterized test suites, so I used LIFT, however it seems like the suite-class hierarchy is backward (rather than a suite also running any tests in its superclass suites, it runs tests in its subclass suites). Anyone know another framework with parameterized suites I can try? 04:22:39 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:23:44 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:24:57 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:27:55 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:22 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:31:39 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host168.181-1-205.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:32:05 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 04:33:23 k0001 [~k0001@host54.181-1-167.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:34:32 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:36:05 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:36:43 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 04:39:24 parawho what? 04:44:00 booga: continuations + html + http = simple state 04:44:10 http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html#sec-7 for example 04:45:37 *drewc* scrolled back to see parawho what 04:46:26 so lisp does monads too? I thought monads were haskell 04:47:37 you might have a few thoughts that are mistaken it seems :P 04:47:46 drewc, you use oblog? 04:47:49 sweet 04:47:56 also, that page rocks. bookmarkign that 04:47:57 o-blog yeah 04:49:03 going to use it for the start of the new common-lisp.net, and then take the files/templates and publish it using CL and not elisp... yay org! 04:49:05 and it looks really good to 04:49:06 I have many no doubt, but meant that as a question, I love to learn. 04:49:07 too even 04:49:46 oh nice. sounds like a sizeable project 04:49:56 can the whole site be done via org > o-blog? 04:50:01 if so, that is rather cool 04:50:03 booga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_monad 04:50:34 yeah, it can .. right now it is plain html... so it will be even more advanced :) 04:50:58 -!- LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:50:58 that is rather brilliant actually 04:51:03 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 04:51:11 that is what I figure indeed 04:51:18 with version control, you have a decent off the cuff content management system 04:51:42 yup, with the .org _and_ the exported html in git 04:51:45 kiwnix [~egarcia@unaffiliated/kiwnix] has joined #lisp 04:52:26 hell ... if you want to play along with my development, http://alpha.common-lisp.net/ 04:52:57 pretty alpha indeed. 04:53:26 yup, just started it yesterday for that matter 04:53:28 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-24-6-156-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:55 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-24-6-156-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:04 (and (string-match re-icon string) (match-strings-all string)) is in my *scratch* right now 04:59:29 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:31 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:17:42 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 05:18:56 tiripamwe [29dd9f55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 05:19:52 -!- gigamonkey [~user@50-1-84-225.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:25:27 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:27:42 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@68.50.168.116] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:36 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:30:19 youlysses [~user@75-132-7-80.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:32:30 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has joined #lisp 05:33:53 -!- spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:34:11 akovalen` [~user@95.72.103.63] has joined #lisp 05:35:31 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.100.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:36:03 -!- two- [~1@199.254.238.208] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:38:33 -!- tiripamwe [29dd9f55@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.221.159.85] has left #lisp 05:39:37 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:09 hmmmmmmmmmmmmz 05:42:12 lots to learn n see!! 05:44:31 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:46:37 strong monad 05:46:38 woa 05:47:11 why is programming the web in lisp more fun than php or whatever 05:47:34 booga: s/the web// 05:47:39 i'm still a lisp newb, but i find learning lisp actually fun 05:47:47 i have NEVER enjoyed any language ever 05:47:56 programming just isn't my thing 05:48:29 I love programming but never went to school for it. 05:48:40 i don't know either, so far it seems like i don't have to remember a lot and all i am doing is recombining forms to generate interesting computations 05:48:40 lisp just seems to make sense 05:48:47 yes 05:48:59 and I use the spec to look up fucntions I wished I had and lo n behild 05:49:01 behold 05:49:10 they appear, like the function apply 05:49:16 -!- tentative8e8op [~tb@cpe-67-49-139-65.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:49:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rgfkafvdepyrycih] has joined #lisp 05:49:32 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-rgfkafvdepyrycih] has quit [Changing host] 05:49:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:49:34 maybe this is what they mean when they talk about lisp being less restraining than other langs 05:49:34 i'm not quite tehre yet to just look up the spec 05:49:34 however 05:49:38 it is my opinion as a former college teaching assistant that the minimal syntax of lisp could not help but be is superior for learning tha n C++. :) 05:49:46 i just never cared for the amount of sheer memorization that i have to do in any other language 05:50:25 pnathan`: i tried c and c++ and perl. my eyes just glaze over at the sheer minutia i had to remember 05:50:33 i could never actually focus on thinking about the problem 05:51:11 lol 05:51:14 so truwe 05:51:16 ... errr, about the logic of the problem i was trying to solve. i spent all the time thinking about the mechanics of syntax 05:51:39 holycow: that was maybe 50% of my intro to comp sci students. it is really sad. I'm glad you're liking Lisp! 05:51:43 ok in SICP 1.3 it says take 3 numbers, drop the smallest, square the other 2, and add the squares 05:51:50 I was liek ok sort 05:51:51 then cdr 05:52:02 then square and sum 05:52:03 BOOM 05:52:18 pnathan`: i'm totally surprised by my experience, i have to be honest. i never thought i would actually like programming. 05:52:32 (cdr (sort (list a b c) #'<)) 05:52:42 oh I freakin love progarmming ever since bash 05:52:51 I once had a bash script go though 4000 movies 05:52:58 and run 15 if thens on each 05:53:14 bash is okay. but really, i can only stand it because sysadmining requires so little actual logic 05:53:17 whenever aa bash script takes liek a minute or 2 to run you know its doing werk 05:53:23 :) 05:53:25 you are mostly doing simple conditionals and passing strings around 05:53:31 yeah 05:53:39 jamming everything into loops 05:53:42 the moment i need to do arrays in bash, i want to get a starter gun out and pull a trigger 05:54:12 one of things I wna learn about lisp is how recursion is better than loops or how its different since there is a loop facility in cl, but some say if you are using it your doing it wrong 05:54:30 i am slowly getting there 05:54:35 well I finally leanred why bash si lame when I tried to store array in memory and operate on it 05:54:41 it loses al ordering 05:55:12 i am starting to see how i can do my scripting in lisp as well. that is kinda exciting. 05:56:21 and I thought tcl was the bomb since it had arrays in variables and then I could split a read in file into a list by splitting on newline, then use list operations to pick out and print wha tI wanted 05:56:49 mind you, i hope my experience is fairly similar as i get into more complex stuff. 05:57:08 tcl was okay, primarily because the syntax dictionary was so small 05:57:37 yeah I find interacting with unix is where shell or tcl seem a bit easier, but only probly due to my newness to lisp, or maybe not interacting so much with files is a good thing 05:57:42 I saw cl-fad 05:57:48 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:58:06 but then, i still had to remember the difference between [] () and whatever other lables tcl required because it was too stupid to understand it it self 05:59:02 lol 05:59:03 yeah. well i'll cross that bridge when i get to it as well i guess. 05:59:20 I liked tcl cuz since it was a shell I could feed it from bash 05:59:46 http://www.crystalballinc.com/vlad/software/ossweb/ this is quite impressive, along with www.aolserver.com but I wonder if the prevayler and lisp without a SQL db can beat it 05:59:58 i think i read somethign about making sbcl capable of handling piped stuff. but i don't know really. 06:00:18 yeah i used openacs for a while 06:00:22 naviserver and aolserver are multithreaded since like 1995 but the whole using SQL db liek psotgresql I dunno 06:00:28 really? 06:00:33 howd you like it? 06:00:37 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:09 I think google uses bigtable which is a dumber clustered prevayler 06:01:18 yup. the framework was excellent built by knowledgable people. the framework has horribly incomplete though as the community kinda disintegrated over time. 06:01:33 doh 06:01:37 there are a lot of amazing ideas to be poached from the framework 06:01:46 you could create subsites in the framework on the fly 06:01:50 it had metric shitons of featues 06:02:00 e-commerce, webmail, forumes, liek everything 06:02:01 you could instance applications on the framework and re-purpose them on the fly 06:02:07 well sorta 06:02:15 none of those things really worked well or were actually completed 06:02:28 aw that stinks 06:02:56 I remember discovering it way back in early 2000s and they said just ask we love if you document stuff you collate. 06:02:57 and as i really could not get my self to actually like tcl, i could not really head down the road of just forking everythign and fixing it for my own needs 06:03:03 they all so busy 06:03:27 all good people really 06:03:52 well I liked tcl because I never learned python or perl so Id use it for everything and a little like lisp it seemed easy to figure out if a littel wordy for most taks 06:04:01 liek it would be 30% bigger than bash 06:04:07 but be so easy to read 06:04:09 obvious 06:04:25 lisp on the other hand has stuff like apply that just jump over my problems 06:04:25 python is okay too. it still has a rather substantial mental overhead. 06:04:34 and let me express what I was thinking easier and simpler 06:04:36 and guido hates lisp, yet he copies shit from lisp. i never got that. 06:04:49 ruby is okay too, i just lost interest by that time. 06:05:01 paul graham said all these langs will grab from lisp until they just end up a lisp 06:05:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:05:10 and the lisper say nice a new implementation of lisp! 06:05:12 lol 06:05:15 that is a famous joke, yes 06:05:27 high hilarity 06:05:40 and really, what do i know, but they all seem to be becoming really poor imitators of lisp 06:05:55 java 8 is getting lambdas and other stuff for example 06:05:58 ok here is one thing about lisp: to what extent can you take 10 boxes, and have lisp on 1 box command and use the othe r9? 06:06:13 greenspuns 10th 06:06:37 so I will skip to the front and just learn lisp! start my own startup and get rich doing good! 06:06:37 i don't understand your last question 06:06:40 holycow: Or, perhaps they are gradually copying the good bits and ignoring the dross? 06:06:41 Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has joined #lisp 06:06:55 ok with bash I can use ssh keys and run remote commands 06:07:11 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 06:07:13 so I could if I wanted make a crazy little back up program to move sets of files among 10 boxes 06:07:26 Zhivago: heh. i have no capability of commenting on that at all to be honest. 06:07:32 I have 0 clue how I would try to do something like that in lisp. 06:07:39 oh 06:07:41 same way 06:07:55 holycow; It's sometimes useful to consider things from the perspective of being in the wrong. 06:07:56 just use the library that lets you call c apps, whatever its called 06:08:51 Zhivago: indeed. currently i am only considering it from the perspective of being lazy. i want to actually like programming. 06:09:29 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:09:56 it's too early to really say anythign about anythign yet, but if i continue to like lisp enough, i will start researching the possibility of completing my compsci degree with the requirement that i only submit solutions in lisp 06:10:27 I wonder if CMU uses common lisp to teach 06:10:46 i'm not sure anyone does any more, beyond a few still stuck with scheme. 06:10:51 fior a few course. 06:11:05 everyone seems to be using java and python. 06:12:17 I friggin hatejava, and I have a conspiracy theory that ruby n python are things to trick someone into leanring java, and then when the startup goes public, move everything to java and oracle, and I dont like ellison 06:12:25 holycow: Why don't you like programming? 06:12:28 sorry if that sounds a little illogical 06:12:52 booga: It sounds like you're a subliterate moron, to be honest. :) 06:13:12 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:13:18 Zhivago: all of the languages i have tried require an enormous amount of memorization of minutia. i spend all my time trying to figure out the syntax rules and not spend any time actually trying to solve problems. 06:13:19 lol 06:13:45 Zhivago: you sound like a highbrow communist 06:13:54 holycow: I can't say that syntax causes me much difficulty. 06:13:58 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:14:16 booga: Excellent. 06:14:18 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:14:27 Zhivago: indeed. all of the programmers that i have hired have mostly one thing in common: a prodigous memory for symbolics 06:14:58 something i simply don't have 06:15:03 chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has joined #lisp 06:15:36 i can remember entire conversations and reproduce visual information, no problem. abstract symbolic representation? no can do. 06:15:42 Zhivago: highbrow communists to me are synonymous with subliterate morons, and I don't like the unflattering comparison lol 06:15:47 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:16:06 booga: Yes, but then, you are ... you, after all. So I think we can ignore that. 06:16:49 Zhivago: I am, yes, a creative genius and a published author, and I have a great postup game and guns 06:17:09 k0001_ [~k0001@host243.200-117-32.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 06:17:24 my abs could get lil better 06:17:35 is this necessary 06:18:04 holycow: Frankly, if you can handle English, then I think that programming should be reasonably straight-forward. 06:18:23 now you are just callng me lazy :) 06:18:46 Zhivago: I reccomend reading "planned chaos", by ludwig von mises, read it free online http://mises.org/daily/2454 06:19:19 Bike: I've been wondering how long until someone asked that. 06:19:36 holycow: Not at all. People who can write well in their native languages tend to make for good programmers. 06:19:48 holycow: Writing is, after all, writing. 06:20:11 booga: It sounds like you're a subliterate moron, to be honest. :) FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION 06:20:12 Bike: par for lisp at night so far. 06:20:14 holycow: It's just a peculiarly constrained form of writing, like poetry. 06:20:27 booga: Please don't shout about how stupid you are -- we already know. 06:21:37 Zhivago: what makes you call me a subliterate moron? 06:22:07 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:22:44 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host54.181-1-167.telecom.net.ar] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:22:44 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:22:45 -!- chaitanya_ is now known as chaitanya 06:23:08 booga: could you take that line of questioning to #noonecares or something? 06:23:15 booga: I didn't say that you are one. Re-read it carefully. 06:24:29 It is tantamount, when used that way, come now. 06:25:01 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:25:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@24.12.190.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:30:41 wasn't 06:30:54 heh .. enter in the wrong place ! 06:31:48 lol 06:31:59 I am getting ganged up on by arthouse goons. 06:32:04 wasn't #lispcafe created so it could be filled with senseless noise and this could be on-topic? 06:32:24 booga: on topic please, this is #lisp 06:33:16 Would anyone be interested in a library for ansi control code text output, i.e., basically a library for outputting colored text. I cooked one up recently and am thinking it might be useful to a broader population 06:35:55 pnathan`: well, i would sayy that sounds like fun actually. how many colours does it support? I assume we notate the hex value just as in css? 06:36:26 it's ansi control codes, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANSI_escape_code#Colors 06:36:33 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:36:47 ahhhh ... 06:36:48 pnathan`: it has repeatedly been asked for, so a library would make sense. 06:36:49 right 06:38:05 H4ns: All right, I'll wrap it up. do you want to do a code review before I ask Xach to add it to Quicklisp? 06:40:12 sure 06:43:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:47:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:31 skanev_ [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has joined #lisp 06:51:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:52:01 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:01 Hi! How would I change the current working directory in SBCL for the purposes of sb-ext:run-program? 06:53:25 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:53:55 tigranes: sb-posix:chdir 06:54:23 H4ns: Perfect, thanks! 06:57:42 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 06:59:35 H4ns: https://github.com/pnathan/cl-ansi-text 07:06:08 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-145-190-168.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:58 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 07:07:24 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.7.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:10:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:11:26 sdemarre [~serge@87.64.75.122] has joined #lisp 07:14:01 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:14:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:15:23 pnathan`: i don't like creating keywords for exported names because they add to the keyword completion space with no good reason. :export #:foo is better. 07:16:27 pnathan`: alexandria:list exists 07:16:34 erm, alexandria:ensure-list 07:17:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:17:16 *pnathan`* fixes 07:17:17 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-185-32.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:27 LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:41 pnathan`: i don't think you need the switch macro, case would do fine 07:17:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:18:44 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.19.125] has joined #lisp 07:18:54 pnathan`: the indentation in find-color-set looks fishy. and i'd use etypecase 07:19:17 wrt: switch - case would probably do fine, but I keep running into this situation where I need to call (string= thing "condition") multiple times, so I took the time to roll up a macro instead of repeating myself. 07:19:30 i am working on a simply algorythm decomposition problem online. I don't understand why the first function works. can someone take a quick glance at this pastebin.ca and explain to me how i can have (/ (list) (list)) actually evaluate: http://pastebin.ca/2313051 07:19:30 -!- afkynik [~aynik@unaffiliated/aynik] has quit [Quit: become the problem of your problems] 07:19:40 pnathan`: i'm not opposed to the macro, it is just not needed here 07:20:14 pnathan`: in particular as you use case in ansi-to-cl-colors 07:20:19 *pnathan`* nod 07:20:20 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:59 holycow: what do you mean "(list)"? I don't see calls to list. 07:21:23 well that technically --> (/ (b2 b1) (b2 b2))) 07:21:33 where b1 is a list and b2 is a list 07:21:54 yes, but the function b2 returns a number. 07:22:16 right. now, how can i have something like (b2 b2) 07:22:20 what does that even mean? 07:22:37 it means you're calling the function b2 with one argument, the variable b2. 07:22:52 pnathan`: did you look at the code that stassats recently wrote to add color to sbcl's test output? 07:22:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:22:59 pnathan`: (just for ideas) 07:23:30 right so i end up with a list of two numbers in that paren set, do i understand that correct? 07:23:41 H4ns: I saw that the patch came through, but I didn't examine it at that time 07:23:42 holycow: no 07:24:02 pnathan`: other than that, it looks ok. maybe a set of formatting functions would be nice so that one could write (format nil "~/red/hello~/green/world~/reset/") or something like that. 07:24:16 holycow: (b2 b2) in this context denotes a function call; the return value of the function b2 when provided with the variable b2 in that scope (a list), precisely. 07:24:20 pnathan`: maybe there is some goodness in the patch, i'd have a look. 07:24:52 Interesting, I hadn't thought about building in a formatting minilanguage. 07:25:51 MacrossNightmare [~lia@95.16.18.252] has joined #lisp 07:26:05 pnathan`: maybe you can do it in a way that would allow user to specify a prefix for the colors if they are anxious that they could see name clashes in cl-user 07:27:30 holycow: maybe it would help to see what (b2 '(4 5 6)) returns in isolation. 07:27:34 in your repl, i mean. 07:27:39 Hrm... I'm not sure I grasp your meaning. Do you mean in a format string... ? I use the cl-colors as-is and I (perhaps erroneously) would assume users would use them too, e.g., cl-colors:+black+ 07:27:58 i named the function wrong, it should be called 'volume or simlar' but the online system would accept nothing else 07:28:02 let me try 07:28:07 holycow: name isn't important 07:28:15 pnathan`: i meant by the way of ~/ (http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_ced.htm) 07:28:32 H4ns: Oooooh 07:28:55 I did *not* know about that facility. 07:28:59 :D 07:29:28 why doesn't it just use *package*? 07:29:44 you could also have ~red/ansi-color/ if you like that better 07:29:55 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:31:06 (b2 '(2 2 2)) returns 8, which is correct. makes sense. 07:31:23 holycow: next consider (let ((b2 '(2 2 2))) (b2 b2)) 07:31:54 H4ns: I will examine that and see if I can't finangle it in. 07:32:11 holycow: by the way, (third n1) is a lot more readable than (car (cdr (cdr n1))). 07:32:36 oh right. 07:32:49 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:22 -!- kiwnix [~egarcia@unaffiliated/kiwnix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:35 chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has joined #lisp 07:36:51 ... testing 07:38:01 -!- chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:13 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:38:18 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 07:38:51 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:10 chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@106.195.179.134] has joined #lisp 07:39:23 testing testing! 07:40:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:41:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.67] has joined #lisp 07:41:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.67] has quit [Changing host] 07:41:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:43:23 -!- Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 07:44:19 bike. okay i can read the let statement properly now. i get the assignment of value to the variable b2. i am confused by the meaning of the body expression (b2 b2) as that ought substittue to something like ((2 2 2) (2 2 2)). i don't see an operator there that evaluates (b2 b2) to 8 is it does at the repl. 07:45:07 i would have written the body as (* b2 b2 b2) instead 07:45:41 well that wouldn't work 07:46:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:46:24 holycow: basically names can refer to values in more than one namespace. in the let form, in (b2 b2), the "b2" at the head of the list is taken to be in the function namespace, and any "b2"s later on in the list to the variable namespace (because this is how CL evaluation semantics are defined). 07:47:14 -!- chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@106.195.179.134] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:47:19 holycow: a let binding, or a binding in your function definition (that is, the n1 in (defun b2 (n1) ...)), binds in the variable namespace. function definitions themselves are bound in the function namespace. 07:47:19 oh wait let me look at that again 07:47:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@87.64.75.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:48:43 ohhhhhhhh 07:48:44 damnit 07:48:46 so simple 07:48:57 got it. 07:49:39 thank you for that. the 'sort of' recursive calling got me confused. appreciate it. 07:49:54 function b2 evalutes the value of b1 07:50:04 then again function b2 evaluates value of b2 07:50:09 completes the calc. 07:50:10 thanks. 07:50:18 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.114.82] has quit [Quit: I be back.] 07:50:45 no problem 07:53:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:07 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:02 sdemarre [~serge@122.75-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 07:55:13 -!- LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:57:25 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host243.200-117-32.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:58:52 k0001 [~k0001@host211.181-1-205.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 08:02:14 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:04:05 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.220] has joined #lisp 08:05:12 how do you get the contents of a file into a list? 08:05:26 then divide the list by newline \n 08:05:34 zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has joined #lisp 08:06:22 there's alexandria:read-file-into-string and split-sequence 08:08:01 lithpy morning! 08:09:22 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:10:27 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:12:00 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:13:15 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.1.50.2] 08:14:28 ecraven [~user@178.79.130.240] has joined #lisp 08:14:35 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 08:14:41 what is alexandria? 08:14:53 like a library package of useful functions? 08:14:56 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:15:23 yes. 08:16:04 http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/ ah!! 08:19:05 so many goodies!!! 08:19:07 love it!! 08:19:16 maybe lisp is easier than tcl 08:19:19 WOW 08:20:04 booga: may i use that quote? 08:20:09 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:20:47 I fear most "new" people to programming would be like "so it's easier than this insane thing" ;) 08:20:59 sure 08:21:32 jump from shell and tcl to lisp lil scary 08:21:42 until I realizse lisp can do all this stuff easily 08:21:56 and make more sense 08:22:04 booga: funny, since they are all quite similar in many ways. 08:22:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:24:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:28:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:18 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:30:05 ... I think someone up there decided to give us great examples on why eval is evil 08:30:27 it's called "pick funniest and most wide-reaching Rails exploit" 08:32:43 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 08:34:33 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:34:33 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 08:35:47 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:36:28 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1490.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:01 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:42:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:43:45 Heh, it's prompted the Clojure community to pick up the pace on implementating a standardized safe reader 08:43:59 -!- MacrossNightmare [~lia@95.16.18.252] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 08:44:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:46:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:48:09 is grails in clojure? 08:49:29 booga: no, Groovy 08:49:54 eataix [eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 08:49:56 oh dear gods whats groovy? 08:50:58 nightfly: I think with small modifications one could take SBCL's reader and make it safe 08:57:37 groovy is some rubyesue thing for the jvm. I run into it with the jenkins CI server... never seen it elsewhere in the wild. 08:57:54 p_l: what would that entail? 08:58:10 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:30 H4ns: Thanks a ton for the feedback... I pushed changes and now I'm off for the night. :-) 09:01:25 Bike: removing of interning 09:01:36 (and not using default readertable) 09:01:46 nite, thanks for the assistance 09:01:48 -!- holycow [~holycow@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:02:03 why no interning? 09:02:14 the memory thing? 09:02:30 Bike: 'symbol-that-will-cause-VM-to-implode 09:02:40 figuratively 09:02:48 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:02:55 also, sharing of interned symbols and access to internals through that 09:03:35 how would that work in practice? you have a set of pre-interned symbols? and then with (let ((x ...)) ... x ...) x has to be prelisted? 09:04:12 Bike: no, just use non-interned ones that won't relate to anything existing in application 09:04:34 well you still need both x's to be the same, don't you 09:06:16 only if you want them to be the same 09:06:39 you can do your own manual "interning" system 09:06:45 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 09:07:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:07:25 for example, pjb's creates symbols inside some package in the manner of package::|user-supplied-package:user-supplied-symbol| 09:08:22 when I looked into using reader for unsafe strings from web, I didn't really care about symbols being EQ to each other 09:08:28 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:08:29 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 09:08:38 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d81503e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:45 maybe i'm just misunderstanding the problem domain 09:09:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:09:35 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d81503e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:36 or I might be badly explaining 09:09:43 brb, training 09:09:50 nha 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kubatyszko [~kubatyszk@218.115.49.16] has joined #lisp 10:39:50 sabalaba [~Adium@76.21.4.232] has joined #lisp 10:42:20 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:27 -!- booga [47683a41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.104.58.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:48:12 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-22-251.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:49:45 jelle [5f805f17@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.128.95.23] has joined #lisp 10:51:08 Hello there, since the clnoobs channel seems inactive, I hop you won't mind me posting an asdf beginners question here 10:51:44 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:52:07 I have a package.lisp, where my other files depend on. So I can do this (the rest of the .asd file is around this of course). [:components ((:file "package") (:file "my-file" :depends-on ("package")))]. However, i have a whole source folder full of lisp files that just depend on that package. 10:52:20 Is there a way to define a complete subfolder to be loaded, with exceptions when a different dependency exists? I.e. all I need is package.lisp to be loaded first, and then the rest 10:54:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:43 jelle: You can make package.lisp its own module, and the rest of the source have a dependency on that module 10:56:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:56:12 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:57:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:58:10 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:19 easye: thanks, second part: is there a way to say 'all files from this subfolder' in stead of defining a (:file "file-name-1") (:file "file-name-2") for each file? 10:58:52 I can't find it in here, but it's a big wall of text so I might be missing it 10:58:53 http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#The-defsystem-form 10:59:12 jelle: Not that I know of. 10:59:24 jelle: You could always do something like #.(mapcar (lambda ) (directory ...)) 10:59:49 Even though it seems a pain at first, explicitly listing source in the build instructions turns out to be good discipline. 11:00:29 If you find yourself repeating this sort of task, a bit of Emacs macrology can help out. 11:01:18 OK, thanks, yes I can manage that :) I just thought this might have been integrated into asdf 11:01:25 thanks! 11:01:32 *easye* nods. 11:02:08 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:02:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-164-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:42 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.243.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.169.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:29 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:707e:b9cf:b050:7de8] has joined #lisp 11:05:29 -!- svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by 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[techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 11:53:24 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:54:29 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 11:55:32 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@37.140.175.196] has joined #lisp 11:55:41 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-22-251.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 11:56:36 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 11:56:51 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:56:57 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:22 Guest16728 [~NoTrust@92.96.28.22] has joined #lisp 12:05:37 soepstad [~user@li277-36.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:51 skanev_ [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 12:07:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:12:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:13:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:13:42 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:15:06 Does format support a max column width? I'd like to break a string into block of the same maximal lenght 12:17:25 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 12:18:10 no 12:19:42 what approach would you choose to implement this? 12:20:30 sepisultrum: there is a fairly elaborate pretty printer, which may do what you want, depending on the details of what you want. 12:20:46 Is it just word wrap? That is the question. 12:20:55 sepisultrum: (write-string string nil :end 10) 12:21:22 prxq: pretty printer doesn't do anything with strings 12:21:46 prxq: I was also looking into this but it seemed inappropriate for my purpose 12:21:52 ok then 12:22:16 stassats: but that way I'll have to keep track of an index 12:22:27 the unthinkable! 12:22:27 you can go split-sequence on the string and continue from there. 12:23:55 stassats: well, if possible, I try to avoid doing arithmetic :P I tend to make errors 12:24:10 then you should immediately stop programming 12:25:47 I don't think trying to avoid making errors by reusing code is bad 12:26:15 is that a homework problem? 12:26:32 not at all 12:26:38 I'm writing an irc bot 12:27:19 I'm not even at home ^^ 12:35:57 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:37:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:38:44 sepisultrum: http://cybertiggyr.com/fmt/fmt.html#SECTION00060000000000000000 12:39:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:39:28 that's not what sepisultrum asked, though 12:41:38 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:43:09 stassats: not exactly 12:43:20 maybe that's acceptable though 12:44:03 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:50:31 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:50:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-164-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:59 -!- impomatic [~digital_w@47.204.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:56:05 splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has joined #lisp 12:56:11 morning 12:58:39 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:58:51 morning 12:59:34 morning 12:59:36 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1223-181.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:59:41 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 13:03:05 sepisultrum: Does it use an existing IRC protocol implementation? 13:03:12 k0001_ [~k0001@host81.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:03:16 Like cl-irc or trivial-irc 13:03:20 cl-irc 13:05:28 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 13:05:31 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 13:06:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:41 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host43.186-108-164.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:07:58 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:08:19 impomatic [~digital_w@87.113.152.173] has joined #lisp 13:11:02 peterhil [~peterhil@cs78247138.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:14:27 -!- Guest16728 [~NoTrust@92.96.28.22] has quit [] 13:16:17 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:17:42 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-165-219.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:18:55 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-163-241.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:37 Thra11 [~thrall@108.154.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:28 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:10e:1d7d:cdba:7ae1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:32 Gullip [~Gullip@83.33.83.116] has joined #lisp 13:23:58 danlentz [~danlentz@2601:c:3680:1c:c1aa:1b52:9253:f0b2] has joined #lisp 13:30:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:46 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has joined #lisp 13:34:02 -!- skanev_ [~aquarius@78-83-94-119.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Quit: skanev_] 13:36:35 ApeShot [~user@adsl-072-151-072-160.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:56 I come again to #lisp seeking anyone else using Franz' Java interop 13:37:14 Because I have a very subtle bug which I hope someone might have insight into 13:37:18 But it is a very long shot 13:37:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:37:47 contact Franz support 13:37:59 ApeShot: the idea of using commercial software is that you can ask the vendor for support. 13:38:17 Thra11_ [~thrall@80.229.114.151] has joined #lisp 13:39:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:40:26 chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has joined #lisp 13:40:38 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD23B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:49 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@108.154.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:09 bitonic [~user@dyn900-125.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:41:31 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:06 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:42:38 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:43:53 rjmt___ [~uid1@37.157.33.78] has joined #lisp 13:44:46 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 13:45:11 So true. 13:45:12 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-88-209.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:16 -!- chaitanya_ [~chaitanya@115.111.191.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:45:25 -!- rjmt___ [~uid1@37.157.33.78] has quit [Client Quit] 13:46:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.132] has joined #lisp 13:46:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.204.132] has quit [Changing host] 13:46:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:46:51 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@37.140.175.196] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:47:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:47:55 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:a493:7c0f:f2ed:ead8] has joined #lisp 13:49:14 fsvehla [~fsvehla@81.217.181.184] has joined #lisp 13:50:19 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has joined #lisp 13:51:42 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-178-96.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:51:55 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:59 someone using cl-dbi? i am to dumb to understand of what kind of data row is and how i could access a single db column 13:54:02 http://fukamachi.github.com/cl-dbi/ 13:54:53 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 13:57:50 H4ns: ~red/ansi-color/ doesn't mean what you think. Only positive integers and characters prefixed by a quote can be used as arguments to format specifiers. (format nil "~red/ansi-color/" 42) --> "forty-twoed/ansi-color/" <08:29:44> you could also have ~red/ansi-color/ if you like that better 13:58:29 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:58:38 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:25 ogamita: oh, that's sad. thanks. 13:59:55 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 14:00:27 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:54 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:16 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-164-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:05:26 H4ns: that said, perhaps with V one can pass a different type of argument. Let's see. 14:06:57 -!- Straylight [~user@bfx.expressionanalysis.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:07:25 Straylight [~user@bfx.expressionanalysis.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:39 Well, no, the standard explicitely says that "The argument should be an integer or character.". 14:08:03 It can be negative however. 14:10:07 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:29 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:10:34 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 14:12:15 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 14:13:53 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:16:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:18:18 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:18:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:21:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:24:08 or what do you folks use for database access? 14:24:37 postmodern 14:24:39 balle: i use postmodern 14:24:41 in-lisp dbs 14:25:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD23B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:26:12 i would like to use a library where i can exchange the db driver like in perl dbi therefore i first tried cl-dbi 14:26:18 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD23B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:00 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-111-224.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:36 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:27:49 balle: cl-sql 14:28:23 cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-40-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:29:01 balle: more precesely, clsql 14:29:48 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:30:14 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:15 antonv, that sounds good too 14:31:01 balle: it has the architecture with drivers that you want 14:31:31 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 14:33:32 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:35:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:36:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.166.136.190] has joined #lisp 14:37:55 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.166.136.190] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:39:23 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.166.136.190] has joined #lisp 14:40:35 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:40:48 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:41:09 antonv, isnt it possible to use normal sql query with clsql? 14:41:22 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:42:44 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 balle: I think it must be possible, but I haven't used clsql myself (my answer "clsql" is to you sencond question about drivers, not to the first "what to you use") 14:43:31 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 balle: what do you mean "normal sql query"? 14:44:40 balle: clsql has some higher level tools, but in the end it anyway sends SQL string to server and if you don't want the higher level tools I believe you can just send strings 14:45:39 with normal sql i mean to send it a sql statement like "select * from mytable join " and so on 14:45:50 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:45:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:38 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:21 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:29 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:a493:7c0f:f2ed:ead8] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 14:48:43 balle: http://clsql.b9.com/manual/query.html 14:49:04 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:14 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:26 as you see, it accepts sql expression, which may be a string SQL 14:50:16 balle: didn't you want to have interchangable dbs? 14:50:20 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has joined #lisp 14:50:46 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:51:58 stassats, yes but if one only uses standard sql like select and join it should stay changeable 14:52:10 antonv, thx :) 14:52:51 balle: i'm using clsql right now. there's a reader syntax if you don't want to write the SQL strings manulaly. i'm not sure which syntax i prefer, but both seem to work. 14:53:02 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:53 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:55:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:57:09 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: halluzinations] 14:57:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:58:28 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:47 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:00:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:02:13 Anyone with lispbuilder-sdl experience around? 15:02:38 I have a bytevector I want to draw to a surface. Is there an easy way to do it? 15:03:54 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:20 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:58 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:24 redline6561: if you're using gl, you can copy it as a texture and then render it as a poly 15:06:59 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:07:00 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:11:01 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:12:02 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has quit [Quit: chaitanya] 15:12:27 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:12:36 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:12:42 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:15:58 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:16:49 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:20 xrash [~rash@201-95-210-238.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:19:39 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:20:13 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:23 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-143-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:22:01 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:17 dlowe: I'm not using gl. :-/ 15:22:29 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:35 redline6561: glue-vecto.lisp converts vecto's canvas data to an sdl surface. might be worth checking out 15:22:36 Thanks though. 15:22:51 newcup: Excellent. Thanks. 15:25:33 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:26:25 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:27:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:29:08 -!- kubatyszko [~kubatyszk@218.115.49.16] has quit [Quit: kubatyszko] 15:30:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD23B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:30:53 spaceships [~spaceship@host-72-174-137-126.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:57 tekkk [~tekk@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:57 you guys who consider yourself gifted in programming. do you think in code? 15:32:57 -!- zorkmoid [c2ed8e07@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:20 tekkk: no, strictly in clingon 15:33:41 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:38 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:35:02 -!- splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:33 tekkk: i guess it's more finding an abstraction of the real world you're trying to describe. then it's trying to find the clearest set of code abstractions which help you describe the abstract world. the code itself comes last, at first glance. 15:37:38 tekkk: which i guess means 'no'. 15:38:29 i just don't know how to think 15:38:39 I'm not meant for programming :/ 15:38:57 tekkk: you could try to follow the SICP videos - slowly, perhaps with the book on the side. 15:39:33 I think that there are great ideas in there; and you might get some understanding from that 15:40:33 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:41:01 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:25 tekkk: for how long have you been programming? 15:41:42 3-4 years 15:41:47 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 but i have hard time understanding the essence of it .. i know I'm not talented so i thought giving it up 15:42:59 it's just practice 15:43:00 "not talented", what a silly execuse 15:44:04 tekkk: talent has little to do with anything. They made a study students into two groups, and given a task. One group was told hard work yields better results, the other was told that talent is necessary for good results. The first group performed measurably better! 15:44:28 they split the students i mean 15:45:21 what there a control group which haven't been told anything? 15:45:30 was there 15:45:50 stassats: presumably, it was a published study, it would be a bad one otherwise :) 15:46:16 flip214: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-9.html this book? 15:46:21 pavelpenev: that study proves that believing in hard work yields better results but does not prove you point about talent 15:46:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 15:47:13 urandom__: My point is tekkk needed some confidence :) 15:48:48 -!- asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-elmhusilpfuhpycc] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:49:17 ah, yes, and he needs more time as per the 10 year rule 15:49:47 10 year thing is for become an expert 15:49:52 becoming 15:50:50 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:51:21 you can "program" for 10 years and you can program for 10 years 15:51:36 you can substitute that 10 years with any other time period 15:51:55 does programming and math go hand in hand? 15:52:14 this isn't targeted at 10 years, but mostly to shorter simplistic ways of describing experience by time periods 15:52:22 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 15:52:23 tekkk: some people think so. i don't 15:52:36 maybe i know too little math... :) 15:52:46 What's the difference between car and first or cdr and rest? 15:52:53 impaktor: there isn't any 15:52:54 impaktor: none 15:52:57 tekkk: as much as any technical field goes hand in hand with math. Hell, music theory involved math. Everything is math from some point of view. 15:53:00 there's certainly math involved when you get involved with more 'novel' algorithms 15:53:22 pavelpenev: explains why i am not a programming genius 15:53:52 asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-gdoszdufbcyqaytm] has joined #lisp 15:53:53 are you trying to make us feel bad for you? 15:53:55 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-40-246.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 15:53:57 tekkk: there are about 15 programming geniuses and we're not among them :) 15:54:02 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 15:54:20 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:54:21 stassats: no 15:54:41 instead of crying you could be improving your programming right now 15:54:55 more code 15:55:04 minion: chant? 15:55:04 MORE CODE 15:55:23 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:56:00 *pavelpenev* believes in less code, this is lisp, not VerboseEnterpriseBlubFactoryLanguage 15:56:23 less code per project sure 15:56:28 that's no reason to not want more code 15:56:41 more code, more experience 15:57:11 in that case, more code in the repl, less code in the buffer :) 15:57:42 more code everywhere 15:59:15 tekkk: I'll be going out for a while, so final words of advice, if you care about being good in programming, you can reach a pretty good level of competence with enough practice, if you don't care, not even all the genetic advantages of being a genius will save you. 16:00:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:01:35 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has joined #lisp 16:01:54 two- [~1@199.254.238.234] has joined #lisp 16:02:19 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has joined #lisp 16:03:19 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:07:24 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:07:33 -!- tekkk [~tekk@78-73-106-123-no162.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: tekkk] 16:09:53 -!- asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-gdoszdufbcyqaytm] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:10:11 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has joined #lisp 16:10:24 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:10:56 Somebody could have mentionned to tekkk that programming is about having fun :-( 16:11:09 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has joined #lisp 16:11:19 is it? 16:11:24 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:11:52 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:12:38 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:45 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:13:02 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has joined #lisp 16:14:06 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-225-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:38 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:14:55 -!- neufeld_AFK is now known as neufeld 16:15:10 splittist [bc3f1563@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.63.21.99] has joined #lisp 16:15:16 re 16:16:00 *splittist* didn't really expect to be deluged by memos; but is always disappointed not to be... 16:16:07 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has quit [Quit: chaitanya] 16:16:19 minion: say hello to splittist 16:16:20 splittist: what's up? 16:16:34 Ahh! 16:17:11 -!- andytoshi [~username@gateway/tor-sasl/andytoshi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 16:18:41 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:20:59 hello splittist :) 16:21:40 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:22:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-178-96.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:22:30 S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:57 -!- S11001001 [~sirian@gw1.mcgraw-hill.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:22:57 S11001001 [~sirian@fsf/member/S11001001] has joined #lisp 16:23:50 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 16:24:47 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 16:26:08 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has joined #lisp 16:26:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:12 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-154-180.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:28:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:29:38 splittist: who needs memos when you have real people? 16:29:41 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has quit [Client Quit] 16:29:51 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 *splittist* feels the lispy love! 16:30:38 -!- fogus|away is now known as `fogus 16:31:41 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has joined #lisp 16:32:36 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:15 chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has joined #lisp 16:37:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:54 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 16:38:34 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:39:06 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:24 -!- pnathan` [~user@98.145.116.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:06 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:44:52 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:05 oh hey splittist ((: 16:47:22 agumonkey [~agu@86.72.217.58] has joined #lisp 16:49:33 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:23 antifuchs!! Am intermittently afk bathing the littlest splittist of them all. In a parenthesis shaped bath, for #lisp relevance... 16:53:36 hahaha yay 16:53:44 so topical ((: 16:57:19 minion: chant 16:57:19 MORE CODE 16:57:38 more baby lispers, if that's the only way to increase their number! 16:58:57 I'm afraid my daughter will grow up not knowing the joys of metaprogramming. 16:59:09 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:16 jasom: why not? 17:01:34 because lisp is dead, haven't you heard? 17:02:11 that's odd. CCL just released a RC. has lisp died this week? 17:03:00 *jasom* was joking 17:03:01 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:56 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-125.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:23 bitonic [~user@dyn900-125.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:05:08 irony on the internet is dead. 17:05:42 Fade: did Alanis Morissette issue a DMCA takedown? 17:06:04 I think the cultural capacity to recognize same has been amputated. 17:06:19 but it's possible. I wouldn't be surprised. 17:06:50 Fade: no one referenced it anymore, so it got #'GCed, we have more #'ROOM now, so we can create it again. :) 17:07:56 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@81.217.181.184] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 17:09:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:09:31 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:11:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:11:14 -!- ApeShot [~user@adsl-072-151-072-160.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:52 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 17:12:38 -!- xrash [~rash@201-95-210-238.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:13:12 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:13:15 skanev_ [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has joined #lisp 17:15:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:56 I think lisp is a good first programming language 17:15:57 -!- Gullip [~Gullip@83.33.83.116] has quit [Quit: Gullip] 17:17:01 -!- skanev_ [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has quit [Client Quit] 17:17:15 I think lisp is a good car programming language. 17:18:02 *jasom* learned basic and C and z80 assembler before learning lisp 17:18:02 I think lisp is a good elt language 0 17:18:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:16 alexandria:first-elt 17:19:25 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 17:20:12 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:20:22 I really don't think it matters what you learn for your first language. I would recommend against whitespace, intercal or malbolge as first languages though 17:21:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:41 i understand whitespace and malbolge, but intercal isn't that bad! 17:21:41 it matters a lot I think 17:21:55 having to explain random syntax puts away from what is programming, for once 17:22:23 then having to explain the difference between instruction, statement and expression s, and why it's important, is another useless barrier 17:22:43 then memory management surely can wait after proper error management, etc 17:22:44 and lisp doesn't have any of those problems, right 17:22:49 dim: I have seen 0 people unable to start learning programming because of instruction statement and expression differences 17:23:22 what I'm waying is that it takes too much brain power that you could be using at the important things in programming 17:23:22 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.138.81.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:23:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:23:54 yes, lots of boilerplate detracts, but even Java's boilerplate doesn't seem to cause that much problems in practice 17:24:23 well I've read a pretty good article from a teacher about that point, but it's in French, so I can't share it here I guess 17:24:29 for most beginning programmers the bigger issue is opening a text-editor and invoking the compiler 17:25:10 Can I find out the minimum arity of a function protably? 17:25:11 the problem as explained from that teacher (35 years in teaching programming to biologists) is that you need twice as many hours to teach Java than to teach lisp (in his case, he prefers teaching scheme) 17:25:22 s/protably/portably/ 17:25:44 dim: I would propose that he is less good at teaching java than teaching scheme 17:25:54 sepisultrum: the number of required arguments ? 17:25:56 then you need to read his article 17:26:07 indeed, I may get my wife to translate it 17:26:22 fe[nl]ix: yes 17:27:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:27:42 sepisultrum: you can use swank 17:27:44 I think babies are PG fans - all they ever talk about is Blub (: 17:27:56 dim: in my experience you just say "type 'public static void main(Sgring[] args)' and don't worry about what it means for now" 17:28:01 http://www.laurentbloch.org/fr/spip.php?article48 17:28:11 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:15 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:36:49 Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:37:06 fe[nl]ix: seems a bit heavy to use it just for this functionality 17:38:27 fe[nl]ix: I'm writing an irc bot that connects to mpd. I'd like to automatically connect the bot commands to whitelisted mpd library symbols 17:39:11 I might just annotate the whitelisted symbols by their required argument count. 17:39:14 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:59 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host81.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:43:35 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:49:43 -!- urandom__ [~user@88.152.196.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:10 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:12 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:53:12 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 17:53:37 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:55:17 ASau [~user@46.115.67.137] has joined #lisp 17:58:54 holycow [~holycow@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has joined #lisp 17:58:57 sepisultrum: forget about "heaviness". just use it if it meets your needs 17:59:22 fe[nl]ix: it's not really portable 17:59:53 what isn't ? 18:00:02 swank arglists 18:00:07 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 18:01:57 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:03:02 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:03:14 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 18:03:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:04:49 I've seen people do fine with C++ as a first language, opening VS, typeing in the code from the white board and pressing C-F5 is as good a way to start as any. Humans don't need all the details to be present before they start getting general concepts like conditions, loops and variables. 18:05:31 -!- chaitanya [~chaitanya@122.161.228.95] has quit [Quit: chaitanya] 18:06:36 Same with turbo pascal 10 years ago. 18:06:57 pavelpenev: the linked article actually praises turbo pascal 18:07:10 *pavelpenev* can't believe it really was a decade ago when his life was changed by that beautiful blue color. 18:07:32 I will concede the point that it is easier to learn all of scheme than enough java to understand why you would want to use a factory factory 18:09:41 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:10:30 Zed Shaw pointed out in a talk that the biggest problems beginners have is things like "How do I type a semicolon?" 18:10:47 like so: ; 18:11:00 asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-hnnthrbsglmfjlgt] has joined #lisp 18:11:09 pavelpenev: And you don't need semicolons in Scheme  see? 18:11:56 or turbo pascal 18:12:29 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.166.136.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:13:10 you need a semi-circle 18:13:18 Well, if you cant type a semicolon, it's probable you can't type any other non-alphanumeric character, LOLCODE doesn't use any to my knowledge, maybe we should start with that one. 18:13:24 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:36 cobol to the rescue 18:13:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-154-180.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:56 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:17:27 We joke, but I've actually seen a fellow classmate struggle with finding Ctrl, and having to compile code using the menu and the mouse. One more reason entrance exams for informatics should not be on paper :) 18:18:37 pavelpenev: Well, it's hard to find Ctrl, since it's labeled Caps Lock on so many keyboards. 18:18:40 i would have trouble too, will keep turning caps lock on 18:19:18 or you have to look under the desk 18:20:12 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-88-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:21:31 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.87.138] has left #lisp 18:21:37 skanev_ [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has joined #lisp 18:22:13 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 18:23:18 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:25:08 The question is not whether a person can learn any programming language. We know she can. 18:25:47 The question is whether you want the single programming language the general public will ever have been introduced to to be something else than lisp? 18:26:35 If your boss had had an introduction to lisp in kindergarden, instead of java, perhaps he would agree more easily to let you write lisp applications. 18:27:26 I predict the number of python jobs in ten years will be one thousand time the number of lisp jobs :-( 18:28:22 that means more money for writing in lisp! yay, scarcity! 18:28:30 pjb: on the other hand, that would mean my boss would muck around with my lisp code (in this theoretical world where my boss was only exposed to one language in school)... 18:29:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:29:40 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:29:42 *jasom* had a friend who wrote anything he didn't want his boss messing up in anything other than Delphi, since his boss understood Delphi and would "fix" things 18:29:56 mandatory lisp in kindergarten? I can get behind that :) 18:31:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:31:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:32 stassats' mpd.lisp has a defcommand macro. I just added the arity to the function symbols using this macro. DIY introspection. 18:33:16 masondesu [~masondesu@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 18:35:46 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:42 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6c098.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:50 -!- two- [~1@199.254.238.234] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:36:57 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:03 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:41 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:37:46 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6c098.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:43 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6c098.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:47 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:39:08 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 18:39:08 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:39:38 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6c098.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:28 -!- cafaro [~tman@unaffiliated/cafaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:41 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:41:42 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:48 -!- cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-143-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:26 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:45:04 masondes_ [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 18:46:41 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl15-225-48.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:46:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-88-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47:00 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 18:47:19 Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.230.155] has joined #lisp 18:47:25 quit 18:47:28 -!- masondesu [~masondesu@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: masondesu] 18:47:28 -!- masondes_ is now known as masondesu 18:48:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:50:11 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@80.229.114.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:50:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-107-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:51:13 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:52:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-190.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:54:29 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 18:54:36 leoc [~leoc.git@p57AA6C59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:55 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:05 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-143-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:08 antifuchs: tsk tsk, gmail-britta in ruby :P 18:55:28 it started out life as a very very quick hack 18:56:15 I had no idea you could import filters. Will try it out. 18:56:19 I had considered making it in lisp, but for some reason I didn't can't even remember why now (: 18:56:23 yay 18:56:30 let me know how it goes for you (: 18:56:54 well your mind is probably mostly in ruby-mode due to work, no? 18:57:14 yeah, somewhat (: 18:57:40 still fancy myself a lisper sometimes ((: 18:57:49 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:58:06 indeed. 18:59:19 Ruby? I am a Leo after all ... 19:00:13 -!- cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-143-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:01:53 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:02:33 LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:49 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.19.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:14 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 19:08:35 -!- wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:54 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-107-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:10:13 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@31.185.230.155] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:10:33 -!- holycow [~holycow@pdpc/supporter/bronze/holycow] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:10:34 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.122.63] has joined #lisp 19:13:33 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 19:15:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-46-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:16:10 AntiSpamMeta2 [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:16:11 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Killed (wolfe.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 19:16:11 -!- AntiSpamMeta2 is now known as AntiSpamMeta 19:18:03 j_king_ [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:10 Bike_ [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:53 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.122.63] has joined #lisp 19:19:32 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-125.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22:17 normanri_ [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:14 -!- nightfly [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:24:46 cabaire [~nobody@xdsl-78-35-187-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:24:54 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.122.63] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:24:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:24:54 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:24:54 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:24:54 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f7312b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:24:57 -!- normanri_ is now known as normanrichards 19:29:15 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:15 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f7312b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:19 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:18 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:19 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 19:37:38 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.142.67] has quit [Quit: ...] 19:39:20 could someone look at a function and possibly help me fix it, i was working fine a few months ago in ccl but now when I test it im getting errors which i cant figure out the cause of 19:40:10 http://pastebin.com/dLM4e5ta 19:41:56 -!- rob7n8h24 [~rob7n8h24@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:43:10 what errors? 19:43:27 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:43:27 -!- neufeld [~user@69-165-173-139.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:43:31 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:44:34 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:45:33 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:54 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:46:25 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 19:47:18 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.19.125] has joined #lisp 19:50:59 well this function is actually called in a from a thread 19:51:14 i get index out of bounds errors when the socket is closed 19:51:28 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:52:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-46-213.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:54:12 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-45-193.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:54:25 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:55:34 Is there a way to connect to netlink sockets with common lisp? 19:55:43 neufeld [~user@69-165-173-139.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:44 rob7n8h17 [~rob7n8h17@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:56:32 I can seen constant definition for af-netlink in grovel.lisp for iolib, but thats about it 19:56:37 *see 19:57:07 mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.18] has joined #lisp 19:57:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@81.2.103.18] has quit [Changing host] 19:57:07 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:57:53 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.103.63] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:04 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:59:48 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has joined #lisp 20:02:43 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:02:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-45-193.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:59 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:38 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl15-225-48.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:00 Defluo [~Defluo@unaffiliated/defluo] has joined #lisp 20:06:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-24-172.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:07:15 akovalenko [~user@95.72.103.63] has joined #lisp 20:09:47 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:10:31 michaelellis [~Rory_Kron@pool-108-18-243-37.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:16 geekmod [~fabookcha@188.130.250.60] has joined #lisp 20:12:52 What is Lisp used for? 20:13:13 geekmod: all sorts of things. 20:13:23 e-commerce, AI, games, ... 20:13:57 high frequency trading 20:14:09 airfare search 20:14:22 computer aided algebra 20:14:23 nasa satellites 20:14:40 parsing csv files 20:15:06 is it better than prolog? 20:15:17 normally, yes 20:16:08 it's certainly different enough to not allow a direct comparison (: 20:16:22 prolog is kind of in a niche all by itself 20:16:33 -!- LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:16:40 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:39 geekmod: cl is also fun to program in 20:17:59 Can I learn lisp in 24 hours? 20:18:00 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:18:21 geekmod: there's no telling what you can do in 24 hours. 20:18:47 there's http://norvig.com/21-days.html, of course 20:22:07 LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:26 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:24:50 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 20:25:05 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.240.220.13] has joined #lisp 20:25:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:27:47 Hello ,I have a question, what's the diference between handler-case and handler-bind, I mean when I can use handler-case or handler-bind 20:28:13 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:46 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:03 geekmod: I will say Mu. I have been a full time lisp developer for over 9 years at this point, and have not 'learned' enough imo. ymmv 20:29:46 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:30:41 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:47 Juanito-Jons: handler-case transfers control, so you can't really use it for restarting and such 20:31:33 Juanito-Jons: the difference that one BINDs fns to different conditions, whereas one CASEs the type of the conditions, and HANDLEs the catch/throw style thing. 20:31:42 Juanito-Jons: handler-case lets you easily do the stuff that is more "normal" error handling (e.g. catch/throw) 20:31:52 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:32:31 I find HANDLER-CASE to be easier to read/write for the most part, but there are cases where it won't do what you want (EG, give up and let the next handler get the condition). 20:32:37 ok thanks 20:32:56 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 20:33:13 I get the solution 20:33:41 -!- michaelellis [~Rory_Kron@pool-108-18-243-37.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:34:28 Only need error handling (e.g. catch/throw) 20:35:14 so I going to use handler-case :) 20:36:23 from experience, once -BIND is used anywhere, try to avoid -CASE unless you know what you are doing :).... because of the scoping on -BIND, well, I can tell you how many hits/sec that certian WWW APIs can take where there are errors/conditions that are HANDLEd 20:37:29 that said, -CASE is preferred where it is what is needed. 20:37:45 drewc: -bind and -case are both dynamic, right? 20:39:38 drewc: oh, you mean that -case unwinds the dynamic bindings before invoking the handler? 20:40:08 yes, but the handler is/can be run at different times, because CASE also/can ... yes exactly... 20:41:17 and the issue can lie in how conditions are used from the bind/case handlers themselves ... and of course how they are handled 20:43:13 http://paste.ideaslabs.com/show/Jeo3qN8cuy 20:43:41 *drewc* does not have the time/space to explain what was going on at all, but lets just say that -BIND and/or -CASE took the errors and wrapped them in another condition that was then ERRORed... 20:44:01 ouch. 20:45:02 -!- splittist [bc3f1563@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.63.21.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:22 -!- reactormonk [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 20:46:08 I do a function, I think that I understand http://paste.ideaslabs.com/show/Jeo3qN8cuy 20:46:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:24 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:24 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:53 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-157-248.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:47:52 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:49:58 Juanito-Jons: the HANDLER-CASE seems to be fine. There is no 'need' for the LET and the SETF though. 20:50:20 ok 20:50:29 bitonic [~user@b0fc0cdd.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:39 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:53:36 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:57:54 is nreverse guaranteed to be safe to call on nil? nil can't be modified, but nreverse is permitted to modify its argument 20:57:58 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:58:21 *jasom* can't think of any sane implementation of nreverse that would modify nil, but is just wondering 20:58:49 "Specifically, when sequence is a list, nreverse is permitted to setf any part, car or cdr, of any cons that is part of the list structure of sequence." 20:58:55 so, no conses no problem 20:59:34 right, nil is not a cons; it just has car and cdr despite that. 21:00:05 nil is the ultimate "do what I want you to do, not the clean mathematically orthogonal thing" type 21:00:37 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:41 type? (typep nil nil) => NIL 21:01:56 object 21:02:02 null type 21:02:07 also a symbol 21:02:25 and a list, but not a cons 21:03:29 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-24-172.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:05:06 a empty list, which a CONS cannot be :) 21:05:18 s/a /an / 21:08:32 i think it's clear that nreverse it's safe for nil, but what about reverse, "If sequence is a list, the result is a fresh list."? 21:10:13 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:11:07 tigranes [~tigranes@23.19.35.180] has joined #lisp 21:12:41 -!- `fogus is now known as fogus|away 21:12:58 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:48 -!- LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:36 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:15:30 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 21:15:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.154.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:20:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 21:21:48 LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:49 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:38 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.158.196] has joined #lisp 21:24:02 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. Freenode staff: If this is happening too frequently, please set a nickserv freeze on my account, and once my connection is stable, unfreeze the account and /kill me to trigger a reconnect.] 21:24:11 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.122.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:15 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:24:32 -!- skanev_ [~aquarius@78.128.55.20] has quit [Quit: skanev_] 21:26:28 -!- LiamH [~none@rrcs-24-43-226-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:27:48 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fc0cdd.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:28 -!- Kalculus [~na@x40343ce2.ip.e-nt.net] has quit [Quit: -1] 21:32:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.41.239] has joined #lisp 21:32:07 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.176.41.239] has quit [Changing host] 21:32:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:32:58 Guest5965 [~kenjin@bl19-234-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:33:27 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:01 bitonic [~user@5ad3179f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:36:09 is there a tut/doc/book/screencast that teaches i can better interact with repl? or just for the problem at hand, how can i reload a cffi library without restarting lisp image? 21:36:28 how i can* 21:36:34 nan_: you just do. 21:36:54 nan_: do you mean the .so? 21:36:54 przl_ [~przlrkt@p54BF9617.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:37:00 agumonke1 [~agu@58.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:09 minion: please tell nan_ about slime.mov 21:37:09 nan_: look at slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 21:37:12 segv-: yes a .so via cffi 21:37:13 -!- agumonkey [~agu@86.72.217.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:22 but slime or repl or anything have nothing to do with cffi 21:37:42 nan_: you'll need to unload the lib first. 21:37:48 ldionmarcil [~user@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 21:38:01 cffi does that automatically 21:38:27 leoc` [~leoc.git@p57B99B56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:31 then just load it again. 21:38:33 stassats: i am compiling .so but cffi doesn't reload it 21:38:34 even easier 21:38:46 nan_: what does it say? 21:38:58 -!- Straylight [~user@bfx.expressionanalysis.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:39:09 stassats: it just loads and does the old thing, before compile 21:39:31 i am using (asdf:load-system :my-proj) 21:39:53 hm, i had this problem with a custom libsqlite once. 21:39:58 if a foreign library was defined using cffi:define-foreign-library, the load-foreign-library will reload it 21:40:06 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:14 the problem is with OSX 21:40:22 fe[nl]ix: i am loading with use-foreign-lib 21:40:31 on OSX, dlclose does not work, so you cannot reload a dylib 21:40:32 and i am on arch-linux 21:40:41 ok, that was my problem. 21:40:49 nan_: paste the code 21:41:08 (asdf:load-system :my-proj) wouldn't really load anything if the files or dependencies weren't changed 21:41:16 fe[nl]ix: code where i load library? 21:41:18 you need to do use-foreign-lib manually 21:42:00 nan_: yes 21:42:11 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@p57AA6C59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:42:11 fe[nl]ix: jus a min 21:43:04 expt [~travis.ro@fwsm.comcastnets.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:30 nothing special really http://paste.lisp.org/+2WI6 21:45:38 cornihilio [~cornihili@ip-64-134-6-237.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:54 stassats: you mean first i call use-foreign-lib then i reload system with (asdf:load-system ...)? 21:47:04 -!- Guest5965 [~kenjin@bl19-234-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:36 (asdf:load-system :my-proj) will not reload anything 21:47:48 (asdf:load-system :my-proj :force t) will, on the other hand 21:51:07 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:15 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:46 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 21:53:16 kubatyszko [~kubatyszk@softbank218115049016.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:37 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.47.229] has joined #lisp 21:54:51 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:08 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:36 trof [trof@178.120.69.243] has joined #lisp 21:59:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:42 dacoda [~user@archi16.univ-st-etienne.fr] has joined #lisp 22:00:46 Is there a reason why cl-fad 0.7.0 is not in quicklisp? It came out on January 23rd, and quicklisp dist update was on January 29th. 22:01:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:01:45 tigranes: you may want to ask in #quicklisp, or the mailing list 22:01:56 -!- dacoda [~user@archi16.univ-st-etienne.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:29 *drewc* is just thinking that may be a better place, though this may be as well, so what does he know! 22:02:46 Oh, sorry, didn't realize there was a separate channel. 22:03:20 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:03:55 "If you have any questions or comments, please email me, use the Quicklisp discussion group, or visit #quicklisp on freenode." <--- http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 22:05:10 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:05:14 You're absolutely right; I apparently skipped over that notice. 22:05:29 no worries, now you know :) 22:06:08 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-234-180.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 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