00:00:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:23 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:52 pjb: what does #|or whatever|# mean? 00:03:01 -!- sepisultrum is now known as sepi 00:03:10 block comment. 00:03:41 H4ns: smart might be an exaggeration ;) 00:04:49 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 00:05:17 Bike: ok, I forgot, thanks 00:05:34 pjb: thank you for that approach. That was what I was looking for :) 00:09:07 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8339.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:09:48 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10:25 -!- zacts` [~user@174-28-187-142.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:10:59 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A2D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:11:38 zacts` [~user@67-0-129-222.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:06 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:04 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E988.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:13:47 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8339.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:14:05 sepi: #| is a comment |# 00:14:15 It means I don't know the exact package name in sbcl. 00:14:58 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 00:15:06 run-program is in sb-ext. 00:16:53 sepi: I think xcvb-driver's run-program functions are what you're supposed to use, or something, if you need something a bit more robust. 00:19:08 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:21:51 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:20 cfy` [~ilisp@220.191.186.26] has joined #lisp 00:22:50 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:23:29 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 00:24:05 -!- deego [deego@unaffiliated/deego] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:12 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:30 deego [deego@unaffiliated/deego] has joined #lisp 00:25:50 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 00:27:54 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:33 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.146.141] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:34:07 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:34:35 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 00:35:12 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:16 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:38:19 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:52:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 00:54:06 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53fec.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:06 -!- superflit [~superflit@187.113.214.98] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:48 is there something in slime that makes it easier to define a search for a set of symbols? eg: i have a symbol underneath my cursor and i want to jump to the point where it is defined in my DSL. by knowing the symbol at the current point, i know the start of the list of symbols that i need to find. any pointers to how slime may help me in building that jump function? 00:55:10 superflit [~superflit@201.86.221.7] has joined #lisp 00:57:48 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:06:07 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:06:24 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:40 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.127.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:07:36 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 01:09:26 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8339.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:11:45 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 01:13:58 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.19.149] has joined #lisp 01:14:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8339.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:14:43 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:17:37 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:58 akovalen` [~user@95.72.47.12] has joined #lisp 01:19:34 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.123.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:25:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:25:55 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:34:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 01:41:33 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:48 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.19.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:42:11 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:59 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:28 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:34 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:47:04 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:50:06 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 01:52:07 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@2001:470:e435:2:9eb7:dff:fec3:d408] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:18 mindCrime [~prhodes@24.106.207.82] has joined #lisp 01:53:33 chameco [~samuel@74.sub-70-215-5.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:31 anybody know what happened to github.com/dto/clon? 02:01:39 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:02:27 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:23 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.24.72] has joined #lisp 02:08:05 mels [~xxo@49.87.202.159] has joined #lisp 02:08:12 hydan: dto got pissed and delete all/most of his stuff about 1 year ago. 02:08:57 pkhuong: thanks, that is sad :/ 02:11:52 hydan: it should be available again. you should be able to find dto on #lispgames from time to time and query him about the status. 02:12:42 hydan: also, he ran into some non-programming issues which made him make that move. it's best to let him explain, i guess. 02:13:00 yep, just set up tracking.. 02:13:21 will ask when he shows up 02:15:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.245.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:22:25 does the flexibility of lisp make collaboration difficult because it's hard for people to agree on how to do things? 02:23:09 zejedi: not necessarily. project guidelines help a lot. 02:23:45 springz [~springz@116.231.111.135] has joined #lisp 02:24:51 could you give me an example of a project that has guidelines published? I'd be interested in looking at some 02:25:27 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:26:00 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.144.24.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:26:03 symbole [~user@krlh-5f71f0a3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:00 zejedi: what i have heard before is "don't create macro's you'll rarely use". aside from that, google published the style guide the inherited at https://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml 02:28:36 cool thx! 02:29:00 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:29:35 re clon, i think i found it https://github.com/dto/blocky/blob/master/prototypes.lisp 02:31:21 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 02:35:15 I think my listener is getting sick of compile-system 02:36:48 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:36:53 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@24.106.207.82] has 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[~kenjin@bl19-253-7.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:57 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.18.109] has joined #lisp 03:39:51 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has joined #lisp 03:40:02 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 03:40:13 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:13 bananagram, ^.^ 03:42:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:42:56 :3 03:44:03 -!- two- [~1@67.171.131.23] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:49:02 mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:44 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:53:44 -!- zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55:24 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 03:57:32 andytoshi [~username@gateway/tor-sasl/andytoshi] has joined #lisp 03:59:57 hey guys, i'm trying to check that a string only contains certain characters, as i'm writing a web service 04:00:35 what's a good strategy for that? it seems like i can't do something like (let ((whitelist "abcd")) ...) and easily check for membership in whitelist 04:01:01 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:01:24 andytoshi: (every (lambda (char) (member char whitelist)) untrusted-string)? 04:01:53 Bike: member only works on lists, no? 04:02:20 andytoshi: sorry, use find then. 04:02:24 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:40c:6014:dddc:e021:1fe6] has joined #lisp 04:02:51 (find #\a "bacada") => #\a; (find #\a "foo") => NIL 04:03:12 oh, thanks a ton! 04:03:47 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:05:22 andytoshi: also functions like hundhentoot:url-encode and escape-for-html 04:05:29 hunchentoot* 04:08:59 DataLinkDroid: oh, good call 04:09:26 though in this case, i'm being much stricter since i'm making filenames out of the input 04:09:32 only alphanumerics and '-' 04:09:57 whew, no compiler cnditions! It only took hours 04:10:17 andytoshi: fair enough. not even underscores, eh :) 04:10:22 andytoshi: alphanumericp may help too then :) 04:10:31 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:11:14 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 04:11:41 it'd have been cool if set-difference would have worked on strings too :) 04:13:24 andytoshi: if you coerce their answer to a list, set-difference would still work. it may not be clearer 04:13:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:13:52 i think using alphanumericp and a small whitelist is clearest 04:14:01 (loop for letter across "test" collect letter) 04:14:07 (every (lambda (ch) (or (alphanumericp ch) (find ch legal-chars))) s)))) 04:14:36 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:14:37 (subsetp (coerce your-string 'list) character-list) 04:14:51 adelgado [~TomSawyer@c-66-229-185-165.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:22 hmm, that is clearer actually 04:15:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:15:30 forgot about coerce :) 04:15:46 will that be way more expensive though? 04:16:01 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:07 andytoshi: yes. though i doubt it'll be the performance bottleneck in your system. 04:16:26 depends how many (million) times you do it :) 04:16:30 but it does cons 04:16:41 clearest of all would be (safe-string-p foo) and then safe-string-p somewhere else :) 04:16:45 well, i was more worried about subsetp 04:17:13 but i suppose for 5-10 character strings, anything is good 04:17:52 Bike: and for what reason should safe-string-p be written unclearly? you're absolutely right, but subsetp could fit in that function. 04:18:42 'course 04:21:50 Tullius [~alemnaru@205.185.218.231] has joined #lisp 04:22:16 eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-12-108-50.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:16 -!- eliyak 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07:56:30 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:23 bananagram, ^.^ 07:59:00 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:59:40 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:47 0 08:02:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-238.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:09:52 pon1980 [~pon1980@h208n7-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:01 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.177.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:10:13 -!- pon1980 is now known as nop0x07bc 08:11:36 -!- sascha__ is now known as skbierm 08:12:10 seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has joined #lisp 08:12:11 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:12:42 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.249.149] has joined #lisp 08:13:48 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 08:15:13 zorkmoid [c2ed8e14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.20] has joined #lisp 08:15:29 Good morning! 08:16:07 'morning 08:17:03 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 08:19:06 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0640.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:19:36 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d35a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:02 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:18 0. 08:29:56 morning 08:31:48 rmathews_ [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 08:32:08 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:18 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:34:18 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 08:37:58 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:38:23 anyone done any fun hacks this weekend? 08:38:47 zorkmoid: I've been working on mmy multi-edit 08:39:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:39:50 what is that? 08:40:03 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:40:52 Oh, it's a library I'm working on that allows multiple people to edit the same document at the same time 08:41:17 It's trying to be clever by automatically choosing which editor acts as the "master" server so it's all transaprent 08:41:42 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 08:42:06 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:42:30 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:42:35 doesn't emacs already allow for that? 08:43:08 one frame per user, same buffer opened up ... 08:43:39 -!- seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:45:49 ( -_-)~ coffee time 08:46:13 p_l: well said! (tea for me, stomach can't handle coffee anymore) 08:48:14 I'm looking at https://github.com/OdonataResearchLLC/lisp-unit -- why does the author think that _loading_ the library equals using it? 08:49:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:51:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:53:11 chr: why don't you ask them? or better yet, send them a documentation pull request with better wording? 08:58:00 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:04:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:05:06 -!- myx [~myx@188.232.25.203] has quit [Quit: ] 09:06:07 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:06:34 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:38 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:11 seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has joined #lisp 09:10:30 Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:57 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:11:20 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:15 peterhil` [~peterhil@cs78247138.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:14:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 09:16:28 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:19:43 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:20:10 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:14 lisp planet is awesome 09:26:32 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-217-208-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:02 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:21 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:32:57 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 09:34:27 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 09:35:58 what's a straightforward way to remove all nil plist items from a plist --> (:keep-me t :keep-me-too '(t) :remove-me nil :but-keep-me "t") 09:37:36 -!- studybot_ [~studybot_@gateway/tor-sasl/studybot/x-68286794] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:37:55 robot-beethoven: i'd use a loop. i'm not aware of an existing function in alexandria that does it. 09:38:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:39:21 H4ns: would you use alexandria:doplist, or the loop macro, or something else? 09:40:15 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:40:16 robot-beethoven: i'd probably use loop. there is not much to be gained by using doplist here. 09:41:58 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:42:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Client Quit] 09:46:28 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:47:10 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:24 (alphanumericp #\) --> T ; and it's probably implementation dependant too. I wouldn't use alphanumericp in all circumstances 09:48:00 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 09:52:51 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 09:55:04 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:40c:6d39:fb:4004:e47a] has joined #lisp 09:55:44 zorkmoid: do you mean planet.lisp.org? 09:55:57 robot-beethoven: yes 09:58:56 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 09:59:05 CrazyEddy [~scrupulou@113.52.233.162] has joined #lisp 09:59:17 -!- CrazyEddy [~scrupulou@113.52.233.162] has quit [Changing host] 09:59:17 CrazyEddy [~scrupulou@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:59:49 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 10:00:38 -!- impaktor_ [~user@johnny.thep.lu.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:01:52 impaktor_ [~user@johnny.thep.lu.se] has joined #lisp 10:02:07 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:02:27 Tanami [~carnage@ppp14-2-34-93.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:08:26 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:13:17 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:13:34 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:40c:6d39:fb:4004:e47a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:30 -!- Tanami [~carnage@ppp14-2-34-93.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:48 Tanami [~carnage@ppp14-2-34-93.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:10 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:20:30 tankrim` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 10:20:56 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.243.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:21:41 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:25:03 -!- andytoshi [~username@gateway/tor-sasl/andytoshi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:25:24 -!- Tanami [~carnage@ppp14-2-34-93.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:25:26 -!- ans [~luka@91.185.202.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:27:08 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:27:35 andytoshi [~username@gateway/tor-sasl/andytoshi] has joined #lisp 10:30:13 bitonic [~user@5e0cec8f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:31:11 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:33:00 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:49 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 10:36:49 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:37:25 Tanami [~carnage@ppp118-210-114-24.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:14 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:53 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 10:39:53 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 10:39:53 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:42:53 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 10:46:00 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:07 skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0640.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:47:25 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:48:53 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:49:59 Hmm, is it normal that under ccl with the current quicklisp, there is no bordeaux-threads:make-thread function? The all-threads function exists 10:50:11 yes, there was a bug in bordeaux-threads 10:50:14 it's fixed in git now 10:52:51 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:52:55 ah, thanks 10:53:30 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:53:40 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:54:43 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 10:56:13 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 10:56:58 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:46 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:58:03 asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has joined #lisp 10:59:37 -!- loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:43 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:00 -!- seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has quit [Ping 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11:23:40 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 11:23:43 downgrading my quicklisp did the trick :) 11:24:04 you could just check out bordeaux-threads from git, you know 11:24:51 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 11:26:40 -!- techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:28:09 -!- asvil [~user@91.151.182.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:43 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 11:28:48 -!- cfy [~ilisp@115.195.181.120] has quit [Changing host] 11:28:48 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:31:57 techlife [techlife@112.249.91.29] has joined #lisp 11:36:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-238.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:18 stassats: in the quicklisp directory? 11:36:26 local-projects directory 11:36:33 quicklisp/local-projects 11:36:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-238.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:36:36 mm.. 11:36:41 stassats: I didn't want to have to look up how that works :P 11:36:48 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:36:52 stassats: but thanks for the idea 11:36:59 -!- Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:37:44 sepi: cd ~/quicklisp/local-projects; git clone git://github.com/sionescu/bordeaux-threads.git 11:39:44 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:39 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 11:42:20 Strigoides [~owen@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 11:44:35 stassats: oh, that was awesomely simple 11:47:24 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 11:47:26 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:47:29 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:52:01 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.90] has joined #lisp 11:52:16 blacktea 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[~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has joined #lisp 13:32:02 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-37-38.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:32:19 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:32:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:34:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:35:36 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Quit: That's it, I quit!] 13:36:54 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.19.203] has joined #lisp 13:38:25 Are streams somehow owned by threads in ccl? I have a hunchentoot application that runs an os process for each session and saves the input and output streams of those in the session. When I want to write to one of the streams I get a condition of type simple error Stream # is private to # 13:38:42 Is that a problem with locking? 13:39:05 sepi: by default, streams are thread-private, but you can change that. 13:39:33 sepi: you will have to make sure that threads accessing shared streams coordinate their actions properly. 13:40:07 sepi: http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter10.1.html#Additional-Open-Keywords 13:41:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:46 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:42:13 francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:42:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:25 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 13:44:25 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 13:45:07 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:46:33 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-246.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:46:40 breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:11 does sbcl support ipv6? 13:49:19 h4ns: via iolibv 13:49:22 iolib 13:49:25 H4ns: Ah, that was what I was looking for. I didn't understand that the first thread accessing the stream would be the owningn one. 13:49:48 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas3-montreal42-1242354060.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 13:50:00 danlentz: not quite the same thing, but thanks. 13:50:40 ? 13:51:34 danlentz: ipv6 is not supported by sbcl, but one can use a library (iolib) for that. that is what you said. 13:52:03 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:52:03 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:52:03 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:52:11 iolib has an implementation of ipv6 an provides the glue to the foreign libraries. But ip6 (or ip4) are or course not inherently part of the4 standardf 13:52:57 danlentz: of course not. neither are foreign libraries. my question was about sbcl, and sb-bsd-sockets in particular. 13:53:28 oh, sorry. 13:54:04 i just jumped in because i am actually working with ip6 and sbcl at this moment. 13:54:29 Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@12.53.196.74] has joined #lisp 13:54:47 seemed to be a striking coincidence 13:54:50 :) 13:55:48 does iolib have a streams interface to socket, or is it as procedural as the api documentation suggests? 13:56:03 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@19.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:46 yeah, no. But i don't think it would be a big problem 13:56:57 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 13:58:11 it takes care of all of the lower level resolution and connection, so could presumably d a gray stream without too much heavy liftinh 13:58:24 H4ns: i think it does 14:01:24 IOLib Manual 14:01:24 last updated January 31, 2009 14:01:37 nard 14:01:40 narf even 14:01:41 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:13 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 14:02:16 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 14:02:40 does iolib support osx? 14:02:49 (not trusting what the web pages claims now) 14:03:01 h4ns: hopefully your are on linux, also. I've run into few issues on darwin\ 14:03:10 i'm not on linux 14:03:14 oh 14:03:58 so, summing up, one can say that the popular open source cl implementations do not support ipv6, and that one can have it on linux through iolib 14:04:06 H4ns: it didn't last i checked 14:04:11 H4ns: on OSX too 14:04:23 fe[nl]ix: so osx is supported by iolib? 14:04:37 libfixposix wouldn't compile 14:05:29 Well there are some problems with osx here and there. But i was able to resolve them so presumably you wouldn't have much trouble 14:05:33 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.21.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:35 yes, in the sense that the only issue you might encounter is some trouble compiling libfixposix 14:05:59 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.253.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:02 -!- youlysses-ZZZzzz [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:07 which are usually easy to fix 14:07:14 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:07:26 xristos: post a compilation log 14:07:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:07:59 will do when i get home 14:09:49 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.250.55] has joined #lisp 14:09:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:09:55 svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 14:10:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.250.55] has joined #lisp 14:10:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.250.55] has quit [Changing host] 14:10:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:10:51 attila_lendvai2 [~attila_le@92.47.250.55] has joined #lisp 14:10:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:11:20 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.47.250.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:00 svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 14:12:58 normanrichards [~normanric@63.98.50.138] has joined #lisp 14:12:59 mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:31 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 14:13:51 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:15:07 are the iolib examples supposed to work? i get "WARNING: Got a server timeout!" when trying to run the echo server 14:15:48 -!- svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:18:11 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:18:28 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-65-92.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:19:06 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 14:19:25 fe[nl]ix: do you know offhand where i might look to see what be involved to implement some of the link-level functionality? 14:19:25 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.13.80] has joined #lisp 14:19:47 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:21:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:24:07 Straylight [~user@66-194-114-178.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:41 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1220-246.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:26:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:27:19 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:29:27 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-159-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:05 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.19.203] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:33:14 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:34:33 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 14:35:02 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 14:36:28 -!- theos is now known as Guest83912 14:36:58 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:37:45 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:21 -!- svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:40:03 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 14:40:30 -!- Guest83912 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:44:07 Joreji_ [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:15 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:15 lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:46:07 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:55 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.160.134] has joined #lisp 14:47:38 newblue [~newblue@183.46.81.210] has joined #lisp 14:48:47 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:01 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.131.25] has joined #lisp 14:50:01 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 14:53:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c9e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:29 saldini [~user@216-161-126-33.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:26 does it make sense to have a (defvar) inside a function body? 14:58:35 impaktor: no 14:58:43 If I just want a variable for the function, I must use a let? 14:59:42 There are alternatives, but generally, yes. 15:00:02 What is the issue? 15:00:05 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:24 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:41 impaktor: if it's a function, you probably want to use 'labels'. 15:01:16 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:51 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 15:02:16 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-214-113.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:59 -!- doomlord_ [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:03:03 bitonic [~user@dyn1220-246.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:03:38 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:04:04 nan9: sorry, why would he want to have a labels? 15:05:08 I'm a lisp noob, and I just need an empty list in the beginning of my function, which I will append stuff to, and then return,. 15:05:27 impaktor: let is for you 15:05:39 impaktor: you should read an introduction to cl programming. 15:06:14 madnificent: well, it's a clean way to define a local function, although re-reading him, it seems that he just wants a variable. 15:09:18 impaktor: if you're going to create a list and immediately return it, you may not need a named variable at all 15:09:55 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:09:55 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.186] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 paolo_m` [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:13:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:15:16 H4ns: I'm reading ANSI Common Lisp. 15:15:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:15:20 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-155.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:16:05 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:16:37 impaktor: read on. let should be with you soon 15:16:39 Straylight: I know, that's the usual way they do it in SICP, but I could not figure it out for now, because the list needs to go into different conditionals and be iterated over. It's a merge-sort implementation. 15:17:08 H4ns: Yeah, I know about let, just didn't grasp the "rules" on when to use/not to use defvar. 15:17:40 impaktor: you can think about defvar as creating a global variable for now 15:18:04 impaktor: it is not an entirely precise thought, but should help you decide when to use it. 15:18:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:18:26 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:03 svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 15:19:25 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:20:05 thanks. 15:20:30 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:20:43 -!- andytoshi [~username@gateway/tor-sasl/andytoshi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 15:22:19 I assume the let works as in Scheme, where it's actually seen from the compiler/interpreter as a lambda function. 15:23:18 impaktor: no function is created by a let, so no. 15:23:31 ok 15:23:33 impaktor: in the iteration cases you an sometimes get it in the iteration form itself (e.g. in LOOP or DO), or avoid a temp variable using a mapcar-alike. A nice benefit of the explicit binding form as opposed to mixing it with setting is the nice compile time typo checking 15:23:40 impaktor: you can think of it as being equivalent to a lambda, but that does not actually happen. 15:25:23 -!- skbierm [~sascha@p4FEA0640.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:36 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@chello084112185050.3.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 15:25:54 *stassats* makes sbcl test output to be in colored 15:26:08 impaktor: whether an operator is a function or a macro or a special operator is defined in the spec, although it's possible to get the behavior similar to some of the special operators using macros on the others 15:26:15 *dlowe* is a big fan of positional-lambda 15:26:24 "Failure" in red 15:27:15 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:16 windows was the hardest to get to colorize output 15:27:38 danlentz: what link-level functionality ? 15:28:56 impaktor: if you need a lexical variable, use LET or LET*; if you need a special variable use LET or LET*, with (DECLARE (SPECIAL *my-variable*)). 15:29:17 unless it's declaimed special already 15:29:44 impaktor: (defun f () (let ((*a* 42)) (declare (special *a*)) (g))) (defun g () (declare (special *a*)) (/ *a* 2)) (f) 15:29:55 Yes, unless. 15:30:19 impaktor: as you can see, declare special let you pass special variables between functions _without_ a global declaration! 15:31:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:34 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:23 Well, LET could or could not be expanded to a LAMBD. See http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 15:32:30 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:32:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:33:18 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:39 And in CL (contrarily to CLtL2), the order of evaluation of the arguments to a function is specified to be left to right. 15:34:27 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-164-2.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:56 -!- pjkj [~pjkj@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:14 pjkj [~pjkj@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 15:36:15 BTW, my slime-repl is cluttered with error messages, is there any way to clear them away, so that next time slime pukes on me, I can more easily discern what is new vomit, and what is old stale? 15:37:05 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:09 impaktor: C-c M-o 15:37:46 sbcl tests, now in technicolor: http://i.imgur.com/yzfzX3p.png 15:37:57 H4ns: thanks. works. 15:39:02 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:22 H4ns: were you using the iolib in quicklisp ? 15:39:31 fe[nl]ix: yes 15:39:52 what do you need to do ? 15:39:54 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 15:40:10 and on linux too: http://i.imgur.com/KxBj0Vz.png 15:40:21 fe[nl]ix: i just wanted to see whether i can try out the examples on osx right away 15:41:00 -!- Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@12.53.196.74] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.4] 15:41:00 the examples are for the event loop only 15:41:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-164-2.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:41:36 fe[nl]ix: yeah, but are they supposed to work? 15:42:13 the event loop is tricky 15:42:30 kqueue on osx is slightly different than on freebsd where I tested it 15:42:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:43:07 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-76.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:09 fe[nl]ix: ok, so it is not supposed to work, thanks. 15:43:33 H4ns: Perhaps it's "supposed to" work but not known to work :-) 15:43:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:52 well said 15:44:29 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 15:44:29 if you use the sockets blockingly, the usual way, they're supposed to work 15:44:51 are there any usage examples in the source tree? 15:45:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:46:19 you can use the Franz documentation 15:46:41 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:20 i can use the franz documentation to use iolib? 15:47:32 svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 15:47:40 I copied the socket API almost verbatim 15:47:45 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:47:57 what would be the package name? 15:48:06 -!- svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:48:13 iolib.sockets 15:48:29 ah, ok. thanks! 15:48:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:34 OK, so when I evaluate this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135214 I get "Undefined function: WHILE". What gives? 15:50:51 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:57 impaktor: why do you think that there is a "while"? 15:51:14 impaktor: also, do not nest defun 15:51:32 Hm, so no function in function? 15:51:44 Use LABELS for that. 15:51:49 use labels/flet for that. 15:51:58 H4ns: all functions in iolib.sockets have good docstrings 15:52:09 OK, I'll check out "Labels". 15:52:14 or (let ((x (lambda ...))) ..) if you feel like a dork. 15:52:48 fe[nl]ix: ok 15:52:48 H4ns: (iolib.sockets:make-socket :remote-host "mirror.switch.ch" :remote-port :http :ipv6 :ipv6) 15:53:29 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:56:20 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has joined #lisp 15:56:27 so as iolib.socket supports ipv6 similar to allegro cl, making usocket use iolib as backend would be a sensible step towards ipv6 support in common lisp. 15:56:32 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 15:57:37 I suppose so 15:58:14 it's almost identical, except for socket options 15:58:34 ok, that should be enough 15:58:55 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:08 how do you think to enable it ? 15:59:14 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:59:31 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:36 the current #+impl won't be enough 15:59:55 -!- svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:59 right. it will probably be a mess. 16:00:19 having a usocket-iolib system will not be sufficient 16:00:26 maybe a dumb question only marginally related to CL, but how common is it to have the stack and heap grow towards each other from opposite ends of the memory space? I thought most CL implementations preallocated stack space and then grew the heap from the end of that. 16:00:29 so it probably needs to be *features*-driven. 16:02:31 that's one feature ASDF is missing 16:02:59 being able to specify in a file that a certain system is to be compiled with certain *features* 16:03:14 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:19 maybe a :usocket-iolib feature would work, which would be set by a :usocket-iolib pseudo asdf system 16:04:37 ericklc [~ikki@187.208.158.213] has joined #lisp 16:04:44 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 16:04:57 that would allow, say, hunchentoot to depend on :usocket as it does now. if one wants to use iolib, one would need to depend on :usocket-iolib first 16:05:06 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 16:05:13 you don't need a separate system 16:05:14 similar to :cl-postgres+local-time 16:05:55 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 16:05:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:06:08 but? 16:06:12 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:17 not a separate system, but instead what? 16:06:33 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 16:06:52 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-171-15-248.range86-171.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:51 Yuuhi [benni@p548397C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:20 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 16:09:28 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 16:10:18 -!- ericklc [~ikki@187.208.158.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:11:56 impaktor: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp) (use-package :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility) (while (plusp (random 10)) (print 'well)) 16:12:29 H4ns: http://paste.lisp.org/+2WC0 16:12:44 Now, it may be shorter to write: (defmacro while (test &body body) `(do () ((not ,test)) ,@body)) ; but that's the eternal question with libraries 16:13:18 thanks. 16:13:43 H4ns: some more #+ and #- would have to be added to the various other files in there 16:13:49 condition, option, server 16:14:01 sykopomp: it depends on the systems. In old microprocessor systems it was quite common. On more sophisticated systems, with virtual memory, and with threads, it makes less sense. 16:14:01 fe[nl]ix: right - the only issue that i have with the approach is that the user will then have to push something to *features* 16:14:24 that's right 16:14:32 fe[nl]ix: it may not be entirely obvious to everybody how that is properly done, whereas depending on a certain system is straightforward. 16:14:55 but you can't have a system usocket-iolib that redefines functions in usocket when loaded 16:14:58 fe[nl]ix: i'm not saying that this is not the right thing, i'm just thinking about how to make things easy to use. 16:15:28 sorry for teasing with colored tests, but they won't become available in SBCL because it's using FFI 16:15:37 fe[nl]ix: of course not. the system would push the feature and then load iolib. that's why i thought it should be a separate system. 16:15:57 stassats: /o\ 16:16:19 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 16:16:21 H4ns: but then how will hunchentoot users select usocket-iolib ? 16:16:36 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@63.98.50.138] has quit [] 16:16:47 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:16:52 fe[nl]ix: they'd depend on :usocket-iolib before :hunchentoot, like with :cl-postgres+local-time 16:16:58 fe[nl]ix: it stinks, but works well 16:17:08 fare probably hates the approach 16:17:46 you mean that loading usocket-iolib turns usocket into a dummy defsystem ? 16:17:58 that can work 16:18:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:18:22 fe[nl]ix: no, loading usocket-iolib first loads a file that pushes the feature, then loads usocket 16:19:49 so the only disagreement is who pushes usocket-iolib to *features* ? 16:19:59 yes. 16:20:02 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:32 i'm just thinking how to make it easier to use, but that's only a marginality 16:20:36 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:10 -!- Straylight [~user@66-194-114-178.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:26 HPRT [haroldgr21@190.6.82.86] has joined #lisp 16:21:28 Straylight [~user@vpn.expressionanalysis.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:59 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:25:09 Wouldn't it make sense to just include code in usocket-iolib that includes usocket and then redefines functions instead of trying to use features as a weird intra-package communication mechanism? 16:25:57 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:26:49 kmels__ [~kmels@frbg-4d029b3a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:12 AntiTyping_ [~apliszka@74.73.56.156] has joined #lisp 16:27:25 Excuse me. What is it all about? :) 16:27:37 Is usocket considered deprecated in favor of iolib? 16:27:56 -!- paolo_m` [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 16:28:10 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:28 No, we'd just like things to work with both :) 16:28:32 svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 er, both with and without iolib 16:28:51 -!- HPRT [haroldgr21@190.6.82.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:28:51 -!- AntiTyping [~apliszka@74.73.56.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:52 -!- AntiTyping_ is now known as AntiTyping 16:28:54 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53fec.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:30:05 Oh, using iolib breaks usocket in the same image? 16:30:08 dlowe: "redefining functions" sounds kind of scary and non-modular 16:30:28 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:31 naryl: no, iolib supports ipv6, but it does not run on many platforms 16:31:32 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:32:10 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:30 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:32:41 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:33:02 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:33:27 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:34:19 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.230] has joined #lisp 16:35:16 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:46 H4ns: it does, but to be modular would be to separate usocket into interface and implementation parts, and that seems a little heavy handed 16:36:53 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-mtpqcfnnhmncynav] has joined #lisp 16:37:04 exactly 16:37:08 dlowe: i'll need to spend some time with the code to figure out what i'll do. i'm not expecting that it is going to be all beautiful 16:37:11 but maybe a good idea 16:38:04 looking at the allegro backend I see that the differences are more substantial 16:38:30 iolib's lookup-hostname returns ipv4 addresses as CLOS objects, not integers 16:38:33 heavy-handed enough that I'm tempted to just say "use iolib" 16:38:36 usocket also has a lot of code dealing with ipv4 addresses 16:38:46 and there's %setup-wait-list 16:38:50 minion is using iolib! 16:38:58 minion: do you like it? 16:38:59 you'd have to tell me... my memory circuits are fried 16:39:15 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@cs78247138.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:17 yeah, my irc bot and text games all use iolib 16:39:22 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 16:39:27 juvi [~jukka@a88-114-62-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:39:28 dlowe: you have an IRC bot ? 16:39:35 peterhil- [~peterhil@cs78247138.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:39:39 fe[nl]ix: http://github.com/dlowe-net/orcabot 16:39:46 it's not running on freenode 16:39:49 hm. maybe hunchentoot and drakma could support iolib in addition to usocket. 16:39:56 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:39:56 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:02 but i'm not really all that eager to support that. 16:40:02 it uses iolib specifically to unblock every minute and send a ping to the server to check if it needs to reconnect or not 16:40:05 I would love iolib support for drakma. It blocks in orcabot atm 16:40:30 stassats: do you want proper ping support ? 16:40:32 dlowe: it uses flexi-streams underneath, so making it non-blocking is not straightforward at all 16:40:33 that's why the new minion doesn't take long vacations anymore 16:40:41 fe[nl]ix: what do you mean? 16:41:11 I added raw socket support to iolib some time ago, paid by Fade :) 16:41:19 and I wrote an ICMP-based pinger for him 16:41:24 it's IRC PING 16:41:29 oh 16:41:33 oops 16:41:44 :D 16:42:14 specbot sends pings too, perhaps minion should send pings to each other to save on traffic 16:42:21 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 16:42:48 the issue with usocket is that the code organization assumes that it's the host implementation that provides the sockets 16:44:24 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.176.104] has joined #lisp 16:45:52 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 16:50:35 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.223.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:50:57 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:52:06 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:52:41 ericklc [~ikki@187.208.158.213] has joined #lisp 16:52:47 AntiTyping_ [~apliszka@74.73.56.156] has joined #lisp 16:53:29 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has left #lisp 16:54:01 -!- AntiTyping [~apliszka@74.73.56.156] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:54:01 -!- AntiTyping_ is now known as AntiTyping 16:56:34 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 16:57:11 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:58:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:00:15 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:00:15 -!- svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:02:01 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:11 -!- attila_lendvai2 [~attila_le@92.47.250.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:03:32 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 17:04:31 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Quit: svs_] 17:05:39 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@ip1.smh.prowebce.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:14:22 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.119] has joined #lisp 17:17:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.119] has quit [Changing host] 17:17:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:17:20 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-232-025.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:07 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:00 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:32 *madnificent* would have wanted sort to be non-destructive and nsort as a destructive variant. always bothers me. 17:22:03 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:49 it would be just (nsort (copy-seq seq)) 17:23:03 not much utility 17:23:19 while remove and delete can use different algorithm, not just copying 17:24:57 stassats: no, sort would be (nsort (copy-seq seq)) 17:25:13 stassats: i never /expect/ sort to be destructive 17:25:14 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.230] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:25:40 no? that's what i just said 17:26:01 well, you should 17:27:15 stassats: no you didn't. you said what i would call instead of the current call to sort. 17:27:27 i did? 17:27:31 i expect sort to be the non-destructive variant, and to exist, and nsort to be the destructive variant. 17:27:34 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:27:50 you've read the CLHS, you should adjust your expectations 17:27:56 ah just screw it, if you want to troll, go ahead. it's not going to make a difference anyways. 17:28:17 madnificent: but he's right. 17:28:40 H4ns: in what way does that change my statement? 17:29:30 madnificent: you need to adjust your expectations, that's all. 17:29:31 H4ns: yes, the clhs says it's that way. so that's the way it is. yet still, it's something that can bite you, and it does't seem to be in line with having a non-destructive variant for just about every other operation on lists. 17:29:35 sort will be just equivalent to (destructive-sort copy) (unless there's some cool non-destructive sorting algorithm), while if there was just delete, (delete copy) will be less efficient than (remove sequence) 17:30:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:41 anything can bite someone who lacks required expertise 17:30:44 stassats: that's not the point. the point is that you're destroying a sequence without having an indication that the operation is destructive. 17:31:02 what indication? 17:31:07 stassats: it's not experience, it's unexpected. that's all. it's not in line with other operations 17:31:19 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ...] 17:31:19 it's indicated in the documentation 17:31:20 like nconc 17:31:24 ah fuck 17:31:31 just screw it. 17:32:08 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:15 if you really have as much emptathy as a computer then yes. it's total bullocks. however, the slightest sense would probably make you understand what i want to say... 17:32:46 there's no non-destructive counterpart (and it's useless), so why should it have n? 17:32:49 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:00 delete doesn't have an "n" either 17:33:04 stassats: because there *should* be a non-destructive counterpart! that's the whole point 17:33:25 m| 17:33:26 what for? to save 5 key-presses? 17:33:41 pjkj_ [~pjkj@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 17:34:22 stassats: drop it. you're not going to get it anyways. 17:34:29 (and i have tried) 17:34:35 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-84-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:34:53 madnificent: it is you who did not get something. 17:35:02 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 17:35:11 H4ns: no, i GET that it works that way. and I've accepted it. but it's not what i'd expect. 17:36:11 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 17:36:39 FWIW, I'm with madnificent. I expect SORT and REVERSE to be more closely related conceptually than they are 17:36:50 -!- pjkj [~pjkj@134-208-2-206.ndhu.edu.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:37:02 madnificent: your expectations are wrong. the reason for destructive vs. non-destructive operations is not user convenience (or "meeting expectations"), it is optimization. a non-destructive operation needs to be implemented differently. with sort, that is different. there is no way to sort non-destructively other than making a copy and sort that. 17:37:41 H4ns: having the non-destructive variant only makes me write two concepts for sorting the list instead of one 17:37:52 plus, i might forget it, leading to very odd bugs. 17:37:58 at least, annoying ones. 17:37:58 well, as i said, it is you who does not understand. 17:38:09 hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:38:20 if you apply your tool wrongly, you'll not get correct results 17:38:28 one can use nconc in a wrong way too 17:38:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.176.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:38:56 is it PEBKAC, yes, sure it is. but still, in a language which seems to try to let you write the correct abstractions to make the application easy to understand and debug, not having a non-destructive sort is odd. 17:39:41 it is not that the implementation would (or could) be faster, it is just something that isn't in line with the other list operations. 17:39:52 ^ this 17:41:34 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 17:42:32 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:54 what is odd about it? common lisp was created at the time when computer hardware wasn't particularly fast 17:43:05 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Client Quit] 17:43:20 stassats: what does that have to do with the clarity of the code itself? 17:43:29 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 17:43:35 stassats: that is so far besides the point i'm making that it might as well be about java or something. 17:44:02 I disagree that you can't do a no-destructive sort faster than copy-and-sort 17:44:02 stassats: the point is /not/ the speed of the execution, it is how clear it is read and write the application. 17:44:45 if a person can't remember that sort is destructive, then he's going to have a bad time with the rest of common lisp 17:45:19 stassats: do you pick the wording of the functions of your application at random, or do you try to name them to what they do? 17:45:22 So, destructive sort makes sense because there are other parts of common lisp that are equally bad? 17:45:43 madnificent: Maybe you should be a bit more careful how you word things. You're being quite provocative yourself. 17:45:54 Euthy: yeah, that's true 17:46:16 destructive sort makes sense, because it was written when a non-destructive sort didn't make sense to implement, and the first thing to use a name gets to own it forever unless you want to make non-backwards-compatible changes 17:46:17 findiggle: yes. 17:46:19 findiggle: things don't have to be bad be difficult to remember, especially if it involves novel for a person concepts 17:46:24 Euthy: i tend to get somewhat frustrated when programmers try to factor out the human component of computing. 17:46:48 well it's CL, it isn't going anywhere, and it's not overly consistent to begin with .. but you can always make your own package to use instead of CL with preferential naming 17:46:49 common lisp is full of oddities and historic warts. there is nothing in sort that is particularly bothersome. the api is large and not coherent. but useful. 17:46:55 findiggle: some people have trouble grasping the difference between lexical and special bindings 17:47:00 jasom: correct. and in that way it's easy to accept. but still, i'd expect a different beahviour (aside from history) 17:47:02 madnificent: and you are factoring out the technical history of computing... 17:47:25 saying "i cannot remember sort is destructive" and then firing a long discussion about how that is the right statement to make is pretty pointless. 17:47:35 that is not what i said! 17:47:46 not by a long shot 17:47:50 madnificent: no really? 17:48:01 madnificent: and now we're talking just feelings, right? 17:48:01 H4ns: that's ironic? 17:48:21 madnificent: yes. it is a stupid, pointless discussion. i'm only participating because my program is slow. 17:48:33 H4ns: is your program using SORT? 17:48:39 stassats: yes! :) 17:48:45 you guys 17:48:47 are the biggest 17:48:49 I believe CL would have been more beautiful still if it could have had a SORT and an NSORT. Is that a better wording? 17:49:02 -!- nan9 [~n9@111.Red-79-159-6.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:35 findiggle: drop it, it's no use. you're attaking their deities. which means that they won't go into reason 17:49:58 findiggle: there are many ways how cl could have been made nicer. the sad fact is that we're 20 years too late to complain about it. 17:50:02 findiggle: and with their infinite wisdom, they must be right! 17:50:20 madnificent: you're just being pathetic. 17:50:35 H4ns: albeit true, a mirror would be good right now 17:50:39 *findiggle* sighs. 17:50:41 it's always easy do discard valid arguments like that 17:50:53 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:52:03 "they are just conservative, so they must be wrong" 17:52:08 madnificent: It's just hypocritical to complain about ignoring the human side of things when you are ignoring the technical side of things. The fact is someone at MIT 30 years ago decided to make sort destructive and we are stuck with it now. 17:52:38 i don't see anybody bashing rplaca and rplacd 17:52:48 the worst named functions in history of humankind 17:53:13 Historicity doesn't make something good. And if it isn't good, can't one complain? 17:53:24 madnificent: Well, I've been on both sides of debates of this kind, depending on my mood. I think they both have a point. The problem is that both sides quickly settle for drawing up strawmen for their opponents, and it rarely recovers after that. 17:53:26 jasom: i talk about how i expected it to have been. even in line with history, would you have been surprised if there'd have been a sort and an nsort? it seems reasonable to me. the current situation seems reasonable too. 17:53:36 No one is arguing that there isn't a good reason, just that it's too bad that it is that way. 17:53:42 And it is too bad. 17:53:43 madnificent: I would be happy to have a sort and an nsort 17:53:51 I also want a pony 17:53:58 but only if I don't have to feed it 17:54:16 You can have those things, just like madnificent knows he can have a non-destructive sort. 17:54:54 -!- juvi [~jukka@a88-114-62-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: juvi] 17:55:17 jasom: so, given the rest of the language, i'd have expected it to exist. especially as destructively changing lists can lead to odd bugs (which must have occurred back in the day as well). simple as that. 17:55:18 I wish I didn't have to eat or sleep. 17:55:18 there are probably 100 functions/macros/special forms in the standard library that destructively modify things without an "n" in the name though 17:55:20 madnificent: so what makes you so angry that somebody doesn't agree with what you believe in? 17:56:34 -!- superflit [~superflit@201.86.221.7] has left #lisp 17:57:11 stassats: i don't necessarily mind that people don't agree with me. what i mind is the way in which they immediately say the person raising the issue is the problem at hand. i should not lower my expectations because something is not slightly better than it currently is. it's fair to accept it, but that's a different thing. 17:57:11 stassats: It's the way you do it. :) 17:57:18 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:02 changing your expectation is the only working solution 17:58:10 stassats: the way it's being discussed reminds me of the introduction of alchemy in history. 17:58:13 madnificent: can't you understand that nobody asked you to "lower" your expectations? it is just that you need to change them. there is no point in complaining that cl is not the way you expect it to me. 17:58:14 stassats: it is not! 17:58:16 be 17:58:17 another one is stopping using common lisp 17:58:44 stassats: Are you aware that you are trolling? 17:58:52 madnificent: or create another lisp dialect that is more sane, in your definition. 17:59:00 actually he could fork sbcl to have sort and nsort; it would still be a conforming implementation 17:59:16 only that nsort cannot be exported from the CL package 17:59:22 right 17:59:22 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:59:50 Euthy: are you aware that you are mistaken? 18:00:18 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Quit: svs_] 18:00:44 H4ns: no, because your expectation need not comply with reality. the name of sort in a language like common lisp makes me expect it is non-destructive. i know it is destructive in common lisp, but i'd have wanted it not to be (and that was my statement, i'd have wanted sort not to have been destructive). for some reason that needs a huge huge chat defend, but it's as simple as that. 18:00:59 stassats: what if he is not? 18:01:05 stassats: Trolling doesn't have to be intentional. "another one is stopping using common lisp" isn't very likely to make the other person react productively. 18:01:42 Euthy: i don't care how people react to reasonable statements 18:02:08 I think it's just that stassats and H4ns are both very much "Get shit done" personality; wanting something to be different when it can't feasibly be changed doesn't really fit in with that. Changing your expectations to fit reality does. 18:02:12 madnificent: but you know that cl cannot change, so what is the point of your statement? what is your intention when you say "i expect cl to be different"? 18:02:39 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:03:00 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:03:14 H4ns: perhaps raising the issue gets something in a library like alexandria, perhaps someone else has some nice other way. perhaps someone else will not run into issues because of (s)he read it. 18:03:30 H4ns: why do you complain about things on your twitter feed? do you always expect a solution? i doubt it. 18:03:49 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 18:05:05 changing the way how a function named by the symbol SORT works is just asking for more trouble 18:05:14 stassats: Ok, but then you should change "so what makes you so angry that somebody doesn't agree with what you believe in?" to "so what makes you so angry when I'm incidentally trolling you?", and then you could answer your own question. 18:05:38 Who's proposing a change to the language? 18:05:49 because that way you'll definitely lose your guard and forget that the SORT you're looking now is actually destructive CL:SORT 18:05:53 svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 18:06:21 We should have alexandria:nsort (short for Nondestructive Sort) that will solve all the problems :) 18:06:37 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 18:06:39 jasom: why not SNORT? 18:07:00 could we agree that nsort and a nondestructive sort could potentially be something to be considered in CLtL3, because it's really tho closest we'll get. 18:07:05 stassats: you are a prick 18:07:14 archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 18:07:25 thank you, it's so refreshing to hear an insult 18:09:11 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:25 thanks for not just throwing one back. i undoubtedly deserve it. however, constantly trying to get under people's nails is infuriating to me. 18:10:49 so criticizing ideas is now bad because people who come up with them might get offended? 18:10:50 *|3b|* doesn't see why it is any worse to think it unfortunate that there is only a destructive sort in CL than to find problems with pathnames or eval-when 18:10:55 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 18:11:00 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 18:11:09 How dare you insult pathnames! 18:11:24 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:45 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:11:53 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:13:30 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:13:39 if i say yes to that, knowing that it is incorrect, will you become nice? 18:13:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-76.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:49 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:13:49 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f733897.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:59 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:13:59 svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 18:14:19 <|3b|> wait, which side was the 'criticizing ideas and making someone mad' side? 18:14:42 -!- svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:56 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:14:58 |3b|: it is not. may we only address the highest-priority issue? 18:15:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-76.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:29 <|3b|> madnificent: which was that? 18:15:39 Reread |3b|'s comment? 18:15:50 you guys need to chill out, and use common lisp to make moneyz :-) it makes you relaxed and all critisism washes away like water 18:16:14 ^ 18:16:23 -!- ericklc [~ikki@187.208.158.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:16:44 |3b|: i don't know, and i doubt we could agree on it each and every time, which was kind-of my point. 18:17:07 -!- kmels__ [~kmels@frbg-4d029b3a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:17:20 nan9 [~n9@111.Red-79-159-6.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:35 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:35 *|3b|* suspects the answer is no then, if we don't know which point to address 18:18:14 |3b|: i don't really think that eval-when can be changed while still being to address all the problems it solves 18:18:21 |3b|: correct! sorry 18:18:32 it is indeed hard to grasp, but so is the problem it solves 18:19:20 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:18 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:20:31 <|3b|> stassats: no, it can't be changed because CL isn't changing... point was more about reaction to people complaining about it 18:20:38 francogrex [~user@109.134.195.210] has joined #lisp 18:20:48 |3b|: even if cl were changing 18:20:51 *derrida* likes where maxm's head is 18:21:22 <|3b|> so you only accept complains about stuff that couldn't be fixed, as opposed to complaints about stuff that could be fixed? 18:21:57 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-169-140.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:22:01 ooh, on the topic of eval-when; when do you use it with anything but all 3 contexts? 18:22:16 jasom: when you know what you're doing, naturally! 18:22:18 *jasom* is sure there is a use-case for that, but hasn't run into it personally 18:22:42 jasom: there was a blog post about it a year or so ago... i think nikodemus wrote it. you mostly don't 18:22:49 |3b|: i can give an opinion on anything, i wouldn't really change sort even if i were able to 18:23:14 Hi, a general questionabout reading foreign data into lisp. it's a SAS file and somehow they managed to read it with R http://biostatmatt.com/uploads/shotwell-sas7bdat-useR-2011.pdf 18:23:29 what would be the way to try to have that done in CL? 18:23:49 jasom: you can use it to make macros and functions associated with them not appear in the compiled code 18:24:16 stassats: okay, I see how that could be useful 18:24:49 jasom: for example, you could implement in a single file a compiler for a DSL, write a macro to call this compiler, and use it to write a program. Then at run time you don't need this compiler for this DSL, you can wrap it in an (eval-when (:compile-topleve) ) and not with the three situations. 18:24:55 francogrex: can you summarize it? i'm not willing to read 15 pages 18:25:17 ok 18:25:58 but in general, you read foreign data into lisp by accessing the memory it's located in 18:26:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:27:25 ericklc [~ikki@187.208.158.213] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 jasom: a was wrong! it was fare http://fare.livejournal.com/146698.html 18:27:37 -!- ericklc [~ikki@187.208.158.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:14 SAS7BDAT, unpublished binary format. compressed using the three algorithms supported by R (which ones ?), reader ported to JAVA and action script ... 18:28:21 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:28:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-27.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:29:28 stassats: it's a good idea to read from memory, but the pāckage in R reads from the physical file itself without the SAS software's need (to load it into memory) 18:29:35 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:48 btw, how would you read from memory in CL (sbcl) ? 18:29:52 i assumed that what you meant by "foreign" 18:29:55 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 18:30:09 francogrex: in that case IIRC the PCL book has a sample library for reading binary formats 18:30:23 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 francogrex: sb-sys:sap-ref-x is one way 18:30:32 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:41 interesting... 18:30:43 francogrex: but if you just want to read binary data from disk as a stream of bytes, you can open it as a binary stream 18:30:57 <|3b|> to read foreign data you basically need a parser from octets to lisp data, then either read into memory and parse from there, or read octets from a stream and parse that way 18:31:00 (:element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) 18:31:00 but as to parsing data formats, there's nothing special about it, it'd be done the same way as in R 18:31:02 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:31:09 probably with a different abstraction around it 18:31:19 jasom: yes, though it may be compressed / encrypted so need to tackle that first 18:31:42 francogrex: so read it in as bytes, then decompress it however they did it in R 18:31:54 yes 18:32:27 anyone wants to try a sample? (me pushing his lick) 18:32:49 how much do you pay? 18:33:46 svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:34:04 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:34:11 how much do you want ? 18:34:43 as much as you can pay! 18:36:10 spoken like an experienced consultant! 18:36:12 20 $ 18:36:17 http://cl.pcriot.com/reader.html 18:36:22 a sample 18:36:24 francogrex: that's not enough! 18:37:01 hey give me your price. Plus don't foget that this is also benefit as it helps you sharpen your skills 18:37:50 ha, there's a line for the classifieds 18:37:55 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 18:38:01 francogrex: why don't you sharpen your skills yourself? 18:38:02 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:07 seems like you would benefit more 18:38:21 mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:21 in the short term yes , for sure 18:38:26 what's the sharpener calculus called ? 18:38:27 lol 18:39:16 if there's no documentation of the format, i'd give you 20$ myself to go get a bottle of strong alcohol and weep 18:39:38 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@92.46.9.119] has joined #lisp 18:39:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:39:45 lol 18:40:05 francogrex: i'd take that 20 and run, it's a fairly good deal 18:40:21 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 18:40:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:40:38 mmarston [~smazga@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:58 madnificent: decode the sample before 18:41:36 -!- svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:41:37 but wait stassats is right, I should benefit more if I try 18:42:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:42:44 -!- mmarston [~smazga@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:15 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:21 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:44:45 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:46:08 -!- slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:46:16 slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:17 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:51:09 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:16 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 18:55:23 svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 18:57:31 the format specs added: http://cl.pcriot.com/reader.html 18:58:05 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:59:45 charli [~charli@p5B0256D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:08 -!- charli [~charli@p5B0256D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 19:00:38 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 19:01:48 -!- drewc_ is now known as drewc 19:02:58 brb 19:03:00 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.195.210] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:03:32 #lisp: (goodmorning :to *you*) 19:06:06 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 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[~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58:10 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 19:58:39 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:04 -!- breakds [~breakds@ppp-70-226-163-93.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:15 svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 20:01:33 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:01:39 -!- svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:02:38 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:03:50 How do you check the equality of two vectors? I've got two vector, both of them returns T for vectorp and they have the same elements... The problem is, equalp doesn't seem to work so I'm stuck here. 20:03:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-238.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:32 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-65-92.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:36 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:04:51 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6f27e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:14 (equalp #(1 2 3) #(1 2 3)) => t 20:05:19 (equalp #(1.0 2 3) #(1 2.0 3)) => t 20:05:25 (equalp #(1.0 2 3) #(1 2.0 3)) => t 20:05:28 Yep. 20:05:42 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:45 zolk3ri: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_equalp.htm 20:06:04 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6f27e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:06:27 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 20:06:34 lemonodor [~jwiseman@cpe-75-83-152-209.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:36 and I forgot to mention that the elements are in hexadecimal. 20:06:49 they can't be in hexadecimal 20:06:51 zolk3ri: "are in hexadecimal", what do you mean by that? 20:08:07 #("AE" "DEADBEEF" "42") 20:08:19 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 20:08:43 axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:49 (equalp #("AE" "DEADBEEF" "42") #("AE" "DEADBEEF" "42")) => t 20:08:56 And you want to compare with #(174 3735928559 66)? 20:11:24 svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 20:11:32 -!- svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:11:45 Joreji [~thomas@87-188.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:35 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.1] has joined #lisp 20:14:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:14:41 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:16:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/135222 20:16:25 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 20:18:36 well, the whole thing is wrong 20:19:27 svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 20:19:39 unless you changed *read-base* and *print-base* to 16 20:19:44 -!- svs___ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:20:25 (format t "~a ~a" '("1F" "8B" 8 0) '#(1F 8B 8 0)) would print the same, but not be equal 20:20:50 besides, if you're reading gzip, it should be neither 20:21:06 #(#x1f #x8b 8 0) 20:21:43 zolk3ri: use ~s instead of ~d and then paste the output 20:22:15 jglh [45c994ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.201.148.236] has joined #lisp 20:22:47 are you trying to implement gzip? 20:22:53 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:23:06 H4ns: maybe you can ask Chun to support iolib as a layer below usocket? 20:25:05 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-gfnkntofdozvoopc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:18 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:21 brown` [user@nat/google/x-dlfipcftzahyctqu] has joined #lisp 20:25:27 -!- blacktea [2eedc883@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.237.200.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:25:51 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:42 -!- jglh [45c994ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.201.148.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:23 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:28:00 -!- axion1 is now known as axion 20:29:45 -!- `fogus is now known as fogus|gone 20:29:54 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:37 -!- nan9 [~n9@111.Red-79-159-6.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:34:35 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:35:16 LiamH: ?? 20:36:28 svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has joined #lisp 20:39:09 -!- Dalek_Baldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39:14 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:18 -!- svs__ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:40:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-128.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:41:10 hi 20:42:02 jglh [45c994ec@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.201.148.236] has joined #lisp 20:42:07 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:15 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-28-94.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:47:00 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:47:40 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 20:48:04 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 20:48:19 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.176.104] has joined #lisp 20:49:39 *dlowe* considers putting (setf *print-base* 16) in his .sbclrc 20:50:06 dlowe: interesting. Why? 20:50:32 Just to see what ubiquitous hex would do 20:50:42 I imagine it'd make me tired of being in the year 7dd 20:51:25 (setf *print-base* 16.) 20:51:37 Funnier: (setf *print-base* 31.) 20:51:58 hex is actually useful to know, though 20:52:00 Well, (face 42) --> error. 20:52:11 Well, (\FACE 42) 20:52:27 dlowe: ok, then use 32. 20:52:38 true story: years ago, a coworker comes in the office and asks hey, what's 49152 in hex. C000, I replied immediately. 20:52:54 49152 was the base address for C64 assembly programs 20:53:11 His mind was blown 20:53:20 Well, knowing numbers in different bases can help to compute in the head, indeed. 20:54:23 is there a function to remove the extension of a file in common lisp? 20:54:57 Denommus: (subseq path 0 (position #\. path :from-end t)) 20:55:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF96EE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:29 (make-pathname :type nil :defaults file) 20:55:42 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@108-225-26-178.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:48 -!- npi [~quassel@bl10-73-232.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:50 bah. 20:56:23 tigranes_ [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:39 ... better yet 20:56:39 -!- svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:54 is there an option in asdf to load a whole directory, instead of a single file? 20:57:13 that'd be interesting. I don't think so. 20:57:48 yeah, so I shall make a macro for me :-/ 20:58:04 npi [~quassel@bl10-73-232.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:58:16 please don't 20:58:34 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 20:58:56 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:59:26 I don't want to, but I want to put every file that is inside a folder on my system, and if asdf don't allow me to do that, what can I do? 20:59:31 *doesn't 21:00:07 Denommus: you can use asdf to load a loader 21:00:13 *prxq* runs for cover 21:00:48 Denommus: you can write an extension. It's not that hard 21:00:55 Denommus: you just don't do it, simple as that 21:01:17 stassats: why shouldn't I do it? I'm lazy 21:01:25 *drewc* is not going to mention ... ahh well what stassats just mentioned was what I was not going to say but hint at. 21:01:28 jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:01:45 -!- jdmssmkr [~user@78-23-137-2.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 21:01:55 Denommus: if you are lazy, then you should avoid it, because what you are talking about is not a lazy thing at all. 21:02:00 Denommus: because it'll break things 21:02:42 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:03:05 (:depends-on #.(directory (make-pathname :name :wild :type "LISP" :case :common :defaults *load-pathname*))) :-) 21:03:15 drewc: I'm the "I'll make this a little bit more difficult right now so every other time that I need to make the same thing it will be easier" kind of lazy 21:03:16 Denommus: you'll aggravate fare 21:03:38 This will be worse. 21:03:51 Denommus: you are making things easier to make things completely impossible ... not the other way around. 21:04:09 Denommus: what you can easily do is: M-! ls -1 *.lisp RET 21:04:25 ok, ok, I won't do that. You guys won. Are you happy? 21:04:25 Or : how will you calculate the dependencies of all files in one directory? 21:04:30 Denommus: i don't know where you'll run in trouble, but pjb's solution is cheap and it'll give you a taste of what you want, so you can see if you like i t:) 21:04:49 pjb: you're smart, I like you 21:05:26 amazing, stassats turned the mood around for a normal question. again. 21:06:02 well, i don't know where you want to turn things by saying that 21:06:03 though i wonder, why would it necessarily be a bad idea? 21:06:15 do you have some personal vendetta? 21:06:28 stassats: turn you into being friendlier (honestly) 21:06:46 I don't think it would be necessarily a bad idea. There are specific use cases for that 21:07:04 but I won't discuss that, I will do it the no-lazy way 21:07:10 madnificent: dependencies? DEFMACRO? OR: "what is it exactly that we are talking about?" 21:07:11 but no, no personal vendetta. i've heard it before. i often find what you say interesting 21:07:59 madnificent: so, please, cease any personal discussions with me or about me, thank you 21:08:12 this is #lisp, i expect to talk about common lisp 21:08:34 aren't we? 21:08:44 Denommus: we are 21:09:30 drewc: i'm assuming Denommus knows those issues. 21:09:54 Denommus: I don't think what you want is practical unless there are no dependencies between the files. 21:10:08 madnificent: ass-u-me :D 21:10:18 madnificent: actually, I do not. I'm a noob 21:10:40 drewc: you win 21:10:52 madnificent: 'twas not a game. 21:11:59 Denommus: if you write a macro in file A, and you use it in file B, you need to have file A loaded before file B. asdf will not try to figure out the correct load order. if you're starting out, i do suggest you create asd files and specify the order of the files to load manually. the option :serial t can be handy. 21:12:19 if I load some lisp file and its evaluated, from within that file, how do I find out the location of the file 21:12:34 clhs *load-pathname* 21:12:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_ld_pns.htm 21:12:38 i know about *compile-file-pathname*, 21:12:39 ahh 21:12:40 right 21:12:41 thanks 21:13:27 #.(or *compile-file-truename* *load-truename*) will handle all cases 21:13:40 thanks 21:13:42 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:43 except C-c C-c in slime 21:13:59 bitonic [~user@b0fe50b7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:04 add^_ [~add^_@m83-185-243-11.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:15:32 Denommus: so, the major major issue with your 'lazy' approach is that the order in which things are compiled matters quite a bit, so your 'lazy' approach is not 'lazy' at all, but rather creating a lot more work and/or naming files in the correct way so they are loaded 'in order' ... So if you want a lazy approach, I would suggest doing what lispers have been doing for quite a while, an not inventing your own thing 21:15:32 to solve 'problems' that only you come up with :) 21:16:04 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:16:35 *stassats* waits for someone to jump up with accusations of stifling innovation 21:16:38 Denommus: actually: M-! ls -1 *.lisp | sed -e 's/\(.*\).lisp/(:file "\1"\)/' RET and put them in a list preceeded by :serial t :components in the defsystem. 21:18:17 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 21:18:38 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@114.91.236.201] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:19:47 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:20 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fe50b7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:21:03 *drewc* has his own 'lazy' approach ... DEFPACKAGE for each file, my builder/loader looks for :use and :import-from in the DEFPACKAGE and does it's own dep tracking ... and that is what us considered 'lazy' :) 21:21:16 let's keep beating the dead horse 21:21:29 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:21:52 bitonic [~user@b0fe50b7.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:29 drewc: i kind-of like your approach. i've been thinking about replicating it to give it a shot. 21:23:01 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:18 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:27:28 drewc: nyef has the same thing, 21:27:33 *sykopomp* really enjoys having one-package-per-file, in general, even with plain-old asdf. 21:27:55 I'll like it more when it's in a versioned sbcl 21:28:39 dlowe: what do you mean by 'a versioned sbcl'? 21:28:41 -!- bitonic [~user@b0fe50b7.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:28:59 pkhuong: yeah, mine is nyefs as well 21:29:03 actually, I failed to specify "it" :p 21:29:14 local-nicknames 21:29:15 (:local-nickname (:project.dir.module :module)) 21:29:41 madnificent, et al: http://paste.lisp.org/display/135223 21:30:03 dlowe: you might have to wait a long 24-28 sleeps ;) 21:30:04 and the usage of such a thing : 21:30:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134127 21:30:57 dlowe: only in sbcl? 21:31:08 It will be 'included/a part of' ASDF in the near future. 21:31:26 ok, on a defclass, if I have a slot that I want the initform to be different from the base class, couldn't I just create a different iniform on this defclass? 21:31:37 I'm hoping, naturally, that it will become another de-facto standard, but sbcl is still my go-to implementation 21:31:51 but remaining with the same initarg and reader/writer/accessor? 21:31:52 Denommus: yes, you can do that 21:31:58 Denommus: yes 21:32:03 Denommus: you need to define the slot in the subclass. 21:32:21 Denommus: this is one reason why :initargs and :default-initargs are usually better 21:32:28 Denommus: if you use the default-initargs option in your baseclass, then you don't need to specify the slot in your subclass 21:32:30 Denommus: another way, if you have an initarg, is to use (:default-initargs :initarg option) 21:32:36 clhs defclass 21:32:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 21:32:39 heh 21:33:23 drewc: how long are your files? 21:33:42 I'm doing this (defclass base-class () ((slot-name :initarg :slot-name :reader slot-name :initform nil))) (defclass child-class () ((slot-name :initform "blah"))) 21:33:47 am I doing this right? 21:34:05 Denommus: yes, that should work 21:34:43 Denommus: but as we've said, :initargs and :default-initargs are better 21:34:45 oh. I found out what was wrong. It was a ID10T error 21:35:20 I was trying to access the slot as slot-name inside of the method, instead of (slot-name param) 21:35:54 prxq: well, that of course depends... but https://github.com/drewc/lisp-interface-library/tree/interface/monad/interface/monad ... all the .lisp were done by me, with one package per file. I even use that to generate the .asd :) 21:36:29 -!- nop0x07bc [~pon1980@h208n7-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:37:28 and the .asd : https://github.com/drewc/lisp-interface-library/blob/interface/monad/interface-monad.asd 21:38:16 -!- svs_ [~svs@158.130.103.169] has quit [Quit: svs_] 21:40:10 as we can see, one package/dependency per file means one ASDF:DEFSYSTEM per file as well... hence why it will likely be a part of ASDF ... that and the portable pathnames / fasl tracking and other things that are now included as part of ASDF _in_ their own 'one package per file' thing as well :) 21:40:17 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.145.79.112] has joined #lisp 21:43:18 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.176.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:49:12 uh 21:49:18 how do I create a fixnum? 21:49:29 what does that mean. 21:49:37 fixnums are always there 21:49:42 I have no idea 21:49:45 Denommus: an integer is a fixnum if it's small enough to be a fixnum. 21:49:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:50:13 Denommus: (1+ 2) 21:50:30 Denommus: maybe you could step back and tell us the problem that led to you asking that? 21:50:42 shouldn't 0 be a fixnum, then? 21:50:47 it is 21:50:51 it is a fixnum. 21:51:13 I'm trying to call the sdl:draw-surface-at method, from lispbuilder-sdl 21:51:14 weren't something asking you for a non-negative fixnum? 21:51:39 or rather, a postive one 21:51:49 (sdl:draw-surface-at (image node) #(0 0)) 21:52:00 oh, the wrong specialization 21:52:30 ... no, I was wrong 21:52:36 if I call 0 and 0 directly, it works 21:52:44 well, you should give the error message at least, not just keep us guessing here 21:52:49 it doesn't work if I try to use a slot from my class 21:53:31 "The value (X NODE) is not of type FIXNUM." 21:53:41 I'll paste the code 21:53:56 the list of x and node is indeed not a fixnum! 21:54:17 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.195.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:19 Denommus: try (vector (x node) (y node))? 21:54:44 or just (sdl:draw-surface-at-* (image node) (x node) (y node)) 21:54:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/135224 21:55:06 vector worked 21:55:06 right, what i said 21:55:17 better use the starred one 21:55:26 Denommus: (aref #((x node) (y node)) 0) => (X NODE), listen to stassats 21:55:33 #() quotes everything, more or less 21:55:47 bummer, draw-surface-at-* conses a vector anyhow, but at least you save on typing 21:55:54 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:17 perfect 21:57:13 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:27 -!- Straylight [~user@vpn.expressionanalysis.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:58:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-75.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:01:41 przl 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["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:03:23 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@public-nat2.arc.losrios.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:54 -!- saldini [~user@216-161-126-33.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:06:58 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d35a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:23 -!- nybble_2701 [~johnny@brln-d9ba6850.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:13:21 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:14:07 -!- ja [~ja@awaks.j4.pe] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:15:37 is there a way to get more useful information when asdf gives me "Error while invoking #"? 23:16:21 Dalek_Baldwin: scroll up. 23:17:49 in this irc channel, or in the error output? 23:17:52 -!- juvi [~jukka@a88-114-62-93.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: juvi] 23:18:42 Dalek_Baldwin: in the error output 23:19:03 it's all gibberish to me :/ 23:20:55 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:21:01 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:06 -!- brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:23:36 brucem [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:04 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 23:25:25 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:44 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-159-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 23:25:52 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has joined #lisp 23:26:26 -!- stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:51 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:11 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:01 -!- tigranes_ [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:24 -!- tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:41 mindcruzer [~mindcruze@149.255.33.155] has joined #lisp 23:36:00 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@149.255.33.155] has left #lisp 23:36:06 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:00 is there a good library for tree manipulation? 23:39:33 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov253.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:40:14 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:34 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.25.200] has joined #lisp 23:41:16 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 23:41:35 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:24 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:44:36 okay, it seems like some warnings cause asdf to refuse to compile, but others don't, and I can't tell which ones they are  I can only tell whether at least one of them is present 23:46:33 Shluck [~luke_wals@hill-d-097.resnet.purdue.edu] has joined #lisp 23:46:45 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:49:51 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:51:47 warnings will. style warnings won't. You can also ask asdf to ignore warnings. 23:53:18 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:11 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.160.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:54:49 okay, maybe these other warnings occurred after the file was compiled 23:57:07 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-155.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:57:07 tigranes [~tigranes@static-50-53-64-180.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:00 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53fec.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:47 gosh