00:00:45 luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:17 MrMc: "Multiple execution threads were supported and called 'processes'  all processes were running in the single address space." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_CADR 00:06:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:06:19 gonzojive [~red@2601:9:4100:6b:e436:eaa6:d394:ec5c] has joined #lisp 00:06:49 -!- zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:06:54 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:31 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:07:35 -!- gonzojive [~red@2601:9:4100:6b:e436:eaa6:d394:ec5c] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:48 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:25 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:04 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 00:12:17 -!- superflit [~superflit@187.113.228.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:40 superflit [~superflit@187.113.228.157] has joined #lisp 00:13:15 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:15:02 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-213-87.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:16:42 Notice that multiple processes running in the same address space is not as dire in a controlled environment as it is in usual (C-like) processors. 00:18:27 Notably, if are not given access to the bindings of a closure, then there's no way to modify them, therefore you can't break other processes code (that is bound inside lexical closures). 00:20:39 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3E40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:20:40 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.21.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:26 Bucciarati [buccia@u.nix.is] has joined #lisp 00:26:28 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-91-20.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:26:38 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:32 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.82.164] has joined #lisp 00:29:02 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:16 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 00:33:58 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.1.83] has joined #lisp 00:34:18 -!- meiji11 [~user@d50-99-49-90.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:37:01 -!- como [~alex@cpe-67-244-7-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:38 *pavelpenev* laments how annoying it is to write lisp code using just a thin layer over an extremely imperative C library. ;; cl-opengl 00:38:55 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:55 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-965B86B1.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 00:38:55 -!- luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 00:40:29 luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:00 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:34 -!- MrMc [~user@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:44:18 pavelpenev: just curious, as I don't use it, is it difficult to write a higher level abstraction over cl-opengl? 00:45:01 -!- hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:46:21 DataLinkDroid: No idea, I skipped half my classes, and am now studying for an exam in 6 hours, and lisp has helped me get some of the concepts. I would say it isn't too difficult, but only because I nobody has told me it is :) 00:47:59 also half the semester was wasted with autocad, instead of actual graphics programming. So I have a quarter of a semester semester experience with opengl :) 00:48:51 pavelpenev: okay :) so you better lay off IRC and get some study done :-) 00:48:56 -!- pegu [~user@c242C76D9.static.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:50:19 rogers_ [~rogers@37.244.209.71] has joined #lisp 00:50:32 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:54:04 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:43 superflit_ [~superflit@186.213.147.81] has joined #lisp 00:54:43 does anyone here happen to know what is happening with mocl? (a common lisp for android that was announced last year and supposed to be publicly released soon.) 00:55:06 -!- superflit_ [~superflit@186.213.147.81] has quit [Client Quit] 00:55:37 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.208] has joined #lisp 00:56:35 -!- superflit [~superflit@187.113.228.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:56 seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has joined #lisp 00:57:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:56 -!- dnolen [~user@12.130.122.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:17 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:45 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 01:01:00 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 01:02:09 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:14 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 01:06:55 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 01:08:35 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 01:08:41 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:59 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 01:11:50 jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has joined #lisp 01:12:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:25 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.1.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:12:33 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:33 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:58 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 01:18:40 -!- linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 01:18:53 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:02 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:40 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:23 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-965B86B1.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 01:21:23 -!- luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 01:22:09 linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has joined #lisp 01:22:15 luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:44 -!- luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:59 -!- linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:15 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:05 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:53 luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:52 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-3-26.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:29:00 knob [~knob@173.215.233.111] has joined #lisp 01:30:17 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:55 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:56 linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has joined #lisp 01:35:01 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 01:38:27 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:43 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-203.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 01:46:51 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:20 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:49:43 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.111] has joined #lisp 01:50:12 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 01:51:04 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:51:04 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:44 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:55:07 -!- linse [~marioooh@18.38.7.220] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 01:55:35 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 02:00:09 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:03:20 -!- clone_of_saturn [~visitant@c-75-72-240-113.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:14 clone_of_saturn [~visitant@c-75-72-240-113.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:41 quizme [~quizme@112.210.48.16] has joined #lisp 02:10:21 hi, I'm just getting started with SBCL, is there a library manager for SBCL? Like in Ruby there is bundler. Is there something like that for SBCL? 02:11:05 QuickLisp? 02:12:12 quizme: you are probably looking for quicklisp (quicklisp.org) 02:12:26 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:40 quizme: if you want to make your own 'libraries' you will also want to take a look at asdf (bundled with quicklisp and probably also with your lisp implementation), and quickproject (available in quicklisp). 02:15:30 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:16:10 mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-107.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:11 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:19:17 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:19:57 ...shite, almost typed in (make-pathname...) why does ERC look so much like the REPL?! 02:24:58 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:26:40 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:27:16 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:27 duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:50 hi everyone. while googling, I found this link to some discussion here 02:27:55 http://www.h4ck.co/lisp-logs/2012-7-3 02:28:56 here is the relevant part from the link 02:28:59 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 02:29:00 fasta: there are many factors that influence hunchentoot's performance, but in general, you will find it not to be very fast compared to, say, lighttpd or node.js. it maxes out at a low few hundred requests per second in the best case. 02:29:36 should I be nervous about using hunchentoot? 02:30:25 I'm writing some software around hunchentoot now but am wondering if this is a bad idea 02:31:53 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:16 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 02:32:57 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:04 I want to say also that I'm not trying to criticise hunchentoot here 02:33:44 duko: you shouldn't 02:34:01 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:11 duko: if you are somewhat scared about it, wrap the calls you make to hunchentoot in your own interface, so you can easily swap them out later if it would turn out to be an issue. 02:34:12 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:12 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:18 madnificent: ok 02:35:39 madnificent: I'm using jsown and I'm a fan of yours 02:35:50 duko: or, if you're an awesome web server magical unicorn, write a holy artificial interface which can adapt to any webserver, and implement it for hunchentoot. but really, no, you probably shouldn't be worried 02:35:58 i have fans now? :) 02:36:33 duko: if you're using lisp, and the web, then #lispweb may be of interest (it tends to be low traffic) 02:36:59 <|3b|> making a web site that can get a few hundred hits per second is probably more of a problem than working around the limitation 02:37:08 duko: the approach I'm using right now is to use hunchentoot only for dynamic content (like form submissions or ajax requests) and the rest of the site is rendered to a static page that's served up by lighttpd. 02:37:20 |3b|: indeed, even big name clients have trouble with that heh 02:38:34 I'm developing a data/api server around hunchentoot 02:38:36 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-965B86B1.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 02:38:36 -!- luqui [~luqui@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 02:38:51 I have other software for rendering pages to the client with the data it gets from hunchentoot 02:39:16 but soon I will be asking hunchentoot to do more work 02:39:42 my friend was experimenting with erlang yaws and when I invited him to work with me 02:39:50 he stopped working on his erlang code 02:40:24 ... maybe this was a bad idea 02:41:32 |3b| it is unlikely that a person would build a website that gets a few hundred hits per second 02:41:57 but if a person reached that goal they would want to know that everything is going to be OK 02:44:21 duko: i'm fairly certain that when you reach that stage, you'll find ways to work around the speed issues. there is probably low hanging fruit in the hunchentoot server, and there are others you can move to if that would be necessary. 02:44:41 s/be necessary/become necessary/ 02:44:41 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:09 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:21 madnificent: ok thanks I will follow your advice and continue with hunchentoot 02:45:22 duko: did you consider parallel instances, load balancing and offloading static content? 02:45:29 I find CL-WHO to be unwieldly, feels like I end up copying/pasting things a lot because it's a pain to use small functions with it :/ 02:46:09 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-107.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 02:46:15 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 02:46:38 DataLinkDroid: I will need the data server to perform non-trivial tasks. there is no way around it. 02:47:12 I can help the data server by moving the web-facing responsibility to another machine 02:47:19 pointless to discuss it until you've encountered a speed issue and hit the profiler 02:47:32 duko: this doesn't sound like a hunchentoot specific limitation 02:47:44 how does facebook use php to serve millions of users? 02:48:48 I'm happy with a response from madnificent 02:48:49 :) 02:51:49 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:19 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:54 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:49 tanderson [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:31 Hey guys, I am a lisp noobie. I was wondering if there is a good way to alphabetize a list. Thanks 02:58:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:07 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 02:58:18 rainnighte [~user@chinaoffice.travelfusion.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:58 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.35.204] has joined #lisp 03:00:14 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:00:40 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:32 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-203.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:04:00 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:07 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:25 tanderson: sort 03:07:25 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:36 tanderson: you mean like (sort (list "one" "two" "three" "four") #'string-lessp) ? 03:10:51 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:49 -!- rogers_ [~rogers@37.244.209.71] has quit [Quit: rogers_] 03:13:29 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:06 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:07 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:16:44 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:12 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:18 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:21:58 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-253-121.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:23:56 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-253-40.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:24:43 -!- tanderson [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:11 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:13 is there a way to look up a setf function given a symbol, at runtime? 03:29:46 meaning, equiv to (apply #'function '(setf foo)), if one could do such a thing 03:30:08 excuse me, equiv to (apply #'function (list 'setf foo)), to make it more clear 03:30:39 vsync: fdefinition 03:31:39 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.35.204] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:32:36 thanks Bike! 03:32:44 aww, it doesn't work in abcl 03:32:49 it should. 03:32:54 (fdefinition '(setf car)) 03:33:53 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:34:56 yup, that was my test... works in SBCL, not in ABCL 03:35:05 it does work in ABCL for symbolic function names though 03:35:22 <|3b|> if i remember right, it is unspecified whether SETF uses setf function, setf expander or something else for CL functions 03:36:48 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:36:56 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:37 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:38:59 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-204-137.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:39:21 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:57 -!- jimmyy [jimmyy@218.59.116.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 03:42:58 univyrse [~univyrse@71-82-19-203.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:43:11 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:43:12 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:07 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:12 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:46 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.82.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:51:06 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:39 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:39 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@99.148.199.45] has joined #lisp 03:55:27 -!- univyrse [~univyrse@71-82-19-203.static.mtgm.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:58 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.196.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:55:58 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 03:56:50 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:58:28 -!- mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:58:57 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:59:27 duko: i'm not always on call for #lisp :) 03:59:54 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-zsfyrdmgrbimiawn] has joined #lisp 04:00:46 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:39 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 04:02:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:04:20 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-189-166.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:38 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-188-63.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:09:03 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 04:09:37 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:24 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:05 -!- cataska` [~user@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:12:14 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:14:16 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.105.104] has joined #lisp 04:14:55 spot_ [~spot@c-71-203-148-29.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:36 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.105.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:18:49 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.69] has joined #lisp 04:21:05 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-45.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 04:21:52 -!- Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.11.62] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 04:25:02 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 04:25:31 -!- spot_ [~spot@c-71-203-148-29.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.1 -- Are we there yet?] 04:27:45 cataska [~user@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 04:27:50 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:47 luqui [~luqui@75-171-233-104.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:06 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:20 when I update a table row with postmodern:update-dao, timestamp columns cause an error 04:31:32 column is of type timestamp but expression is of type bigint 04:32:45 is it really neccessary to convert each timestamp column in a row from bigint to timestamp when retrieving and updating ruws? 04:33:34 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.124.153] has joined #lisp 04:41:17 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 04:42:48 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.208] has left #lisp 04:42:58 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.208] has joined #lisp 04:45:33 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:47:34 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 04:50:53 duko: http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/s-sql.html#types 04:51:18 ,(sqrt 1000000) 04:51:32 sw2wolf: there's no evalbot here. 04:51:33 1000 04:51:42 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.208] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:52:08 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.208] has joined #lisp 04:53:59 agumonkey [~agu@63.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:47 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:55:57 I get a dao with postmodern and then update the dao with no changes and the result is this error 04:56:17 it seems to me that there is an inconsistency here 04:56:26 ah. 04:56:29 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.168.217] has joined #lisp 04:57:16 if no changes are made why should I see this error? 04:58:21 -!- vujalov [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe70:ade3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:00:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:00:19 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:00:45 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:01:21 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EA198.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:01:30 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-zsfyrdmgrbimiawn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:35 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:02:37 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.168.217] has left #lisp 05:05:53 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:06:07 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:40 also, I am not using simple-date but am using the recommended local-time instead: http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/postmodern/ 05:06:49 -!- rainnighte [~user@chinaoffice.travelfusion.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:57 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:08:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:26 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:09:53 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:10:01 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:10:30 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:12:07 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@91-157-48-30.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:12:50 luqui_ [~luqui@184-96-144-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:10 -!- luqui [~luqui@75-171-233-104.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:13:10 -!- luqui_ is now known as luqui 05:13:24 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-6E8F47A9.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 05:13:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:21:27 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:36 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-213-87.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 05:27:38 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@54.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:28:58 nikodem [~mikey@user-109-243-49-63.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:30:43 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:32:43 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-209-2-213-87.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:36:03 joekarma_ [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:11 I'm trying to get lispbuilder-sdl to open a window from a separate thread so I can interact with the window using the same techniques as I use for most lisp apps.... recompiling functions on the fly, etc. 05:39:40 this code creates a window that immediately freezes up https://gist.github.com/4583848 ... anyone have an idea why? 05:40:18 joekarma_: does any of that loop? 05:40:34 yep, should open an event loop by default 05:41:56 if I replace "bt:make-thread" with "funcall" the code will work as intended 05:42:24 problem is that means I have to kill the window in order to redefine any functions, draw things to the screen, etc. etc. 05:45:51 here's another example: https://gist.github.com/4583873 05:46:32 the code works, but I can't C-c C-c the draw-frame function without first killing the window lispbuilder-sdl creates... wondering if anyone has a solution? 05:48:13 I should probably mention I'm running SBCL on OS X 05:48:27 <|3b|> can't do window stuff from extra threads on osx 05:48:29 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:54 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 05:49:21 ah, so I guess I should run a linux VM for development 05:49:27 <|3b|> there is some swank function you can call from the :idle handler though if i remember correctly 05:50:55 <|3b|> the code in http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/wiki/PortableInteractiveDevelopment might be it 05:51:14 checking into it, cheers 05:51:46 this looks like exactly what I needed :) 05:52:41 *|3b|* still would have expected slime to start new threads to run C-c C-c stuff though, on a threaded sbcl 05:53:25 (setf (created account) (get-as-local-time (created account))) 05:53:54 i am having to do this for each timestamp column in each dao that I insert using postmodern 05:54:14 ugly hack 05:54:43 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:54:52 |3b|: I just get "pipelined request..." -- would be great if that worked though 05:55:56 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:56:48 -!- seerhut [~seerhut@121.197.1.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:56 -!- impulse is now known as impulse- 05:57:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:58:25 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:36 |3b|: by the way, thank you! the code in the link you posted works perfectly... I'm C-c C-c'ing merrily along now and seeing the results live :) https://gist.github.com/4583919 06:02:15 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:55 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 06:04:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.124.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:08:42 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.1.83] has joined #lisp 06:08:57 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:31 <|3b|> joekarma_: ah, i think i have the pipelining stuff turned off, so maybe that matters 06:18:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-54-226.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 06:21:18 <|3b|> looks like i have (setq slime-inhibit-pipelining nil) in my .emacs 06:21:48 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:21:59 ExpensiveNode [b11173f7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.17.115.247] has joined #lisp 06:22:21 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 06:22:47 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.154.131] has joined #lisp 06:22:49 Just wondering, most of the time when writting macros you just use &rest all the time? I don't see much use for named parameters there, no? 06:23:46 ExpensiveNode: look at (with-open-file), that uses named parameters. 06:24:00 But mostly? 06:24:08 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:19 named parameters are used in macros all the time 06:24:22 (sorry for redundance) 06:24:23 *|3b|* suspects most of my macros use named parameters and destructuring, possibly with multiple rest and body args 06:24:30 -!- Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-245-55.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 06:24:35 Hmm okay 06:24:40 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 06:25:08 |3b|: multiple rests? 06:25:31 (defmacro foo ((&rest a) &rest b) ...) 06:25:34 <|3b|> yeah, (defmacro foo ((arg &rest more-args) &body body) ,,,) 06:27:41 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 06:28:07 azkane_ [~ahm@189.236.41.36] has joined #lisp 06:28:47 -!- azkane_ [~ahm@189.236.41.36] has left #lisp 06:30:33 -!- azkane 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07:31:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:40 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-91-20.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:36:48 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:39:43 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:40:54 fe[nl]ix: therep 07:43:01 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 07:43:28 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.121.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:43:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 07:44:23 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 07:52:28 -!- omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:53:25 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:56:23 omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has joined #lisp 07:58:09 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-003-086.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:18 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 08:01:19 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.129] has joined #lisp 08:05:41 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:05:46 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dcb0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:47 ISF [~ivan@187.106.39.154] has joined #lisp 08:06:25 myx [~myx@109.195.22.154] has joined #lisp 08:07:34 cibs [~cibs@219-87-142-18.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 08:11:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:11:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 08:12:17 nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 08:14:45 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:15:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:15:34 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:17:08 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-219-178-wifi.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:07 luqui [~luqui@75-166-97-50.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:12 Hello everybody! 08:20:24 Are there any library implementing with-hash-items macro, which acts similar to with-slots? 08:21:05 not that i know of, but you could probably write that in five lines 08:21:20 i'd do it in four lines! 08:23:00 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-8D44F055.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 08:23:00 -!- luqui [~luqui@75-166-97-50.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:23:24 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 08:23:57 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:25:02 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 08:30:55 -!- PCChris_ [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-86-216.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:32:34 stassats: pong 08:32:55 does anyone remember the name of that new stealth lisp company in california that popped up recently? 08:33:00 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:33:07 fe[nl]ix: iolib timeout.4 test fails on sbcl and ccl 08:33:22 and on ABCL 08:33:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has joined #lisp 08:33:53 i managed to run tests on ABCL, but there's one problem with gray streams CLOSE 08:34:16 for sockets, it's calling call-next-method, and on ABCL this ends up into the default method for streams 08:34:22 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:34:58 timeout.4 is a known issue 08:35:02 ok 08:35:14 how is it a problem that the default method gets called ? 08:35:27 the default methods wants a cl:stream 08:35:35 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 08:36:08 then I'd be inclined to say that it's an ABCL bug 08:36:17 omouse` [~user@24.246.63.243] has joined #lisp 08:36:29 all other implementations use the default method to st the open-p flag to NIL 08:36:36 -!- omouse [~user@24.246.63.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:37:01 otherwise I had the case that after a successful close, open-stream-p returned nil 08:37:25 I mean T 08:38:22 and the gray stream protocol does not have a way to implement open-stream-p, so the default method on cl:close must do it 08:38:44 (sb-mop:class-precedence-list (find-class 'iolib.sockets::socket)) => (# # #) 08:39:06 i see no reference to implementatio's gray streams, so how would close work on it? 08:43:15 i think it works on, say, SBCL, because it checks (next-method-p), but sbcl doesn't define methods for CLOSE on T, while ABCL does 08:45:12 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 08:50:02 -!- zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:06 -!- f03lipe [~f03lipe@186.205.212.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:51:22 fe[nl]ix: so, should ABCL define all the default methods for gray-sreams on STREAM, not on T? 08:54:22 i'll try to do that with CLOSE and see what happens 08:54:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:56:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:59:23 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:59:37 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-219-178-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:56 that at least doesn't seem to error out, now the long wait for ;; Test "kafka_utf-8_lf.txt" UTF-8 LF [INPUT] --> ISO-8859-1 CR [OUTPUT]. to finish 09:01:51 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-219-178-wifi.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08:40 nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 09:09:20 fe[nl]ix: yep, that worked 09:09:35 that leaves 4 failures, one i reported, two are missing restarts, and one is timeout.4 09:10:25 pjb-d [~t@host.34.193.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:37 -!- pjb-d is now known as ogamita 09:10:51 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:08 which missing restarts ? 09:11:31 hydan [~udzinari@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:12:45 Unexpected Error: # Restart # is not active... 09:12:49 or maybe it's the unexpected error 09:13:30 stassats: the gray-stream wrappers are in src/new-cl/gray-streams.lisp 09:13:37 -!- myx [~myx@109.195.22.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:13:47 nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 09:14:21 I think that's a bug too 09:14:34 in abcl 09:14:58 i'm still not sure about the CLOSE thing, why is next-method-p sometimes NIL sometimes T, on SBCL? 09:15:11 I reported it to ccl too, and gbyers fixed it 09:15:27 it fails on ABCL because when it's on NIL SBCL, it's T on ABCL (because it's always T) 09:15:48 it's about (invoke-restart (find-restart 'retry-syscall)) not working 09:16:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:17:52 -!- Guest93594 is now known as kushal 09:19:09 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 09:26:33 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:29:31 luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:31 -!- luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:08 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-219-178-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:34:41 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 09:37:16 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.39.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:37:20 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:00 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:41:59 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.200.208] has left #lisp 09:43:41 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:58 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 09:47:42 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:50:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 09:56:47 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:49 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-219-178-wifi.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:51 fe[nl]ix: so, socket-datagram-internet isn't supposed to be a gray stream? 09:57:30 it's a socket, but has no gray streams superclasses, hence CLOSE fails on it 09:58:44 so, why define a close method on SOCKET when it's not a gray stream? 09:59:15 or rather, why is it not made a gray stream ? 10:03:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:03:21 does it make much sense to treat a datagram socket as a stream (generally)? 10:03:52 well... it can 10:04:10 in a way, datagram sockets at OS level *are* streams, just different kind of streams 10:04:42 (event stream with discrete events, instead of event stream feeding you a data stream 10:04:45 ) 10:04:54 whatever the identity of SOCKET, this CLOSE method shouldn't try to deal both with stream classes and non-stream classes 10:05:01 and all it does is just calling call-next-method 10:05:10 so perhaps it should just be removed 10:06:51 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:07:26 nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has joined #lisp 10:07:34 the class hierarchy is too complex to tell 10:07:38 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:09:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-27-62.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:10:13 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 10:12:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:12:35 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:13:19 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:52 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 10:15:25 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:33 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:28 przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has joined #lisp 10:17:32 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.247.178] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 10:19:18 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 10:19:30 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-weqwbczykqfftyqi] has joined #lisp 10:23:31 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003e8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:07 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-243-46.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:27:20 -!- n2kra [~chatzilla@pool-74-102-3-68.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 10:32:41 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:44 n2kra [~chatzilla@pool-74-102-3-68.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:48 plantseeker [~Plantseek@77.240.63.97] has joined #lisp 10:35:41 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 10:42:32 stassats: so then what should I use for datagram sockets ? 10:43:28 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 10:44:35 close, but don't call call-next-method in it 10:45:00 and define its own close for those classes which need call-next-method 10:46:11 wow, too complicated 10:47:38 well, isn't it already? 10:50:23 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:33 -!- gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:50:53 -!- knob [~knob@173.215.233.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:50 gf3 [~gf3@unaffiliated/gf3] has joined #lisp 10:53:42 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 10:54:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.66] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 10:54:38 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 10:58:02 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:00:55 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@student-247-160.eduroam.uu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:06 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:03:36 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:45 rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has joined #lisp 11:05:03 jarmond [~user@137.205.238.47] has joined #lisp 11:06:05 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:17 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp-219-178-wifi.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:36:15 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 11:37:34 -!- omouse` [~user@24-246-63-243.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:38:10 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:39:15 -!- jarmond [~user@137.205.238.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:40:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: i will be back...nvm] 11:40:35 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42:23 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 11:46:22 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.165.89.11] has quit [Quit: ...] 11:48:16 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:49:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-35-47.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:53:59 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.131] has joined #lisp 11:54:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@46.231.183.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:55:46 I'm having a little FORMAT blockage. Need to output lines in the format: 11:56:01 some-constant first 11:56:05 some-constant second 11:56:05  11:56:35 so trying (format nil "" some-constant (list first second )) 11:56:43 except can't find the proper format-string :) 11:57:20 that will iterate over the second argument and keep printing the constant bit 11:58:50 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 11:59:42 antoszka: (format nil (concatenate 'string "~{some-constant ~A~%~}") (list first second)) 12:00:15 umm, (format nil (concatenate 'string "~{" "some-constant" "~A~%~}") (list 'first 'second)) 12:00:38 Perhaps I wasn't clear. some-constant is a variable. 12:00:43 (w-o-t-s (out) (dolist (x list) (format out "~A ~A~%" some-constant x))) 12:01:16 antoszka: replace "some-constant" with your variable 12:01:18 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 12:01:38 antoszka: or use FORMAT instead of CONCATENATE 12:01:38 jdz: ah, in the second case. yes, thx. 12:01:41 sure. 12:01:55 I was thinking about nesting formats but thought that'd be ugly as shit :) 12:02:37 thx 12:02:55 maybe what adeht suggests would be better, anyway 12:03:49 I used your method to generate the format string. 12:04:14 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:06:28 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:43 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 12:08:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:09 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:00 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:12:18 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:12:58 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:15:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-27-62.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 12:16:16 Is there a convention for function names which modify their arguments? Like "!" in scheme. 12:16:20 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.56.177] has joined #lisp 12:17:03 Does it make sense to just prepend "N" like the standard does? 12:17:43 naryl: do you have non-destructive variant of your function? 12:17:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:18:57 There are a few similarly named functions some of which are destructive. 12:19:17 Some don't have an exact non-destructuve variant. 12:20:11 So I'd like to mark destructive functions even when they don't have a non-destructing variant in this case. 12:20:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:21:06 then do whot you like 12:22:04 the "N" prefix in CL is to distinguish destructive variants from non-destructive ones; other destructive functions don't have any special "marks" 12:22:55 well, i'd not call "SET-" prefix a naming mark 12:22:57 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 12:23:28 set-xxx usually becomes (setf xxx) in CL 12:23:38 except when it does not 12:25:05 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:28 i've seen ! used in cl function names way more often than ? 12:25:42 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:02 maybe because in CL the convention is to use "P" suffix for predicates? 12:26:34 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.56.177] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:27:25 mutley89 [~mutley89@cpc1-swin14-2-0-cust274.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:48 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-37-226.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:31:40 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:22 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-234.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:35:31 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 12:36:20 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:34 jdz: i think so 12:38:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:38:31 jarmond [~user@137.205.238.137] has joined #lisp 12:38:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:39:47 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 12:40:55 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-204-137.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:45:07 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:45:08 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.56.177] has joined #lisp 12:47:52 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:53:51 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:44 a_BossBOY [~a_BossBOY@unaffiliated/a-bossboy/x-6303536] has joined #lisp 12:56:52 tanderson [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:15 -!- a_BossBOY [~a_BossBOY@unaffiliated/a-bossboy/x-6303536] has left #lisp 12:58:12 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-179-31.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:59:59 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:39 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 13:03:56 -!- kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:19 antoszka: (format nil (concatenate 'string "~{" some-variable "~A~%~}") (list 'first 'second)) is dangerous, because it can easily break if some-variable contains tildes. Similarly bad is: (format nil (format nil "~~{~A~~A~~%~~}" some-variable) (list 'first 'second)) 13:05:13 You'd have to write: (format nil (format nil "~~{~A~~A~~%~~}" (escape-tildes some-variable)) (list 'first 'second)) 13:05:31 the dolist above is probably the best solution. 13:05:39 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:06:13 ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has joined #lisp 13:09:05 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.124.158] has joined #lisp 13:09:11 przl [~przlrkt@brln-4d0c1ea6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:04 Is there some official git mirror of the CVS repository of slime? If not, how can I bring my checkout in sync with the current version (this includes possibly deleting some files, which cvs up doesn't do). 13:13:37 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:13:37 invariant: github.com/antifuchs/slime.git 13:14:33 Anyways, if you have a sizeable body of code, you can always use the conventions you want, and why not ! and ? 13:15:28 Notice that in CL, the prefix N doesn't mean that it's modifying the arguments, but that it's Non-consing (ok, that may imply mutation of the arguments, but not necessarily: it may be mutation of other objects referenced from the arguments). 13:16:39 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:16:57 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:17:43 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:6dd3:c036:7b94:f272] has joined #lisp 13:20:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:58 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:22:25 chitofan [dcff029d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.255.2.157] has joined #lisp 13:22:56 anybody knows a channel for embedded programming? 13:22:56 chitofan, memo from pjb: have a look at cl-stepper in https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp <03:06:42> is there a way to see how lisp code evaluates sequentially? 13:22:56 chitofan, memo from pjb: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/9e3de317170960cd/d302f20690c6bc41?hl=en&q=cl-stepper+group:comp.lang.lisp+author:pascal+author:bourguignon#d302f20690c6bc41 13:22:56 chitofan, memo from pjb: or http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/d302f20690c6bc41?hl=en&dmode=source 13:25:22 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:25:52 -!- ludston [~patience@CPE-121-216-102-83.lnse2.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:27:49 ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has joined #lisp 13:30:52 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 13:31:43 Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.11.62] has joined #lisp 13:32:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:33:03 -!- tanderson [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:34:00 ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has joined #lisp 13:34:08 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-189-166.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:42 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-128-224.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:59 urandom__ [~user@p548A1828.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:18 Hello everyone! 13:36:36 bniels [~niels@p4FD6DED7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@brln-4d0c1ea6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:42:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:42:19 hitecnologys: Hello 13:42:41 ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has joined #lisp 13:42:42 przl [~przlrkt@brln-4d0c1ea6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:49 leoc [~leoc.git@g229059144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:58 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 13:48:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:48:59 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:49:52 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.200.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.242.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:50:00 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:6dd3:c036:7b94:f272] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 13:50:39 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:6dd3:c036:7b94:f272] has joined #lisp 13:52:12 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:16 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 13:54:53 Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:56:35 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:56:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@brln-4d0c1ea6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:57:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@72-228.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:58:58 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:50 przl [~przlrkt@brln-4d0c1ea6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:18 ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 14:01:24 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.124.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:42 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003e8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:02:09 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.2.220] has joined #lisp 14:02:30 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [] 14:02:50 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has joined #lisp 14:06:01 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.89.32] has joined #lisp 14:10:26 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:14:10 ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has joined #lisp 14:15:08 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:20 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:11 -!- quizme [~quizme@112.210.48.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:18:20 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:32 quizme [~quizme@112.210.48.16] has joined #lisp 14:18:54 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-146-085.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:20:32 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.131] has joined #lisp 14:20:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:55 . 14:20:57 . 14:21:07 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:22:14 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:18 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:23:22 -!- chitofan [dcff029d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.255.2.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:45 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:24:19 -!- Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.11.62] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:26:10 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:38 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:27:45 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:30:22 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.89.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30:25 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:45 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:26 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:32 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:35:43 I can give a 'FUNCTION to the swank inspector and see the methods, remove them, etc. 14:36:05 zorkmoid [c2ed8e15@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.21] has joined #lisp 14:36:08 How would I do that for SETF accessors? '(SETF x), (SETF x) doesn't work. 14:36:47 #'(setf x), if it's actually a function. 14:36:53 #'(setf x), natrually 14:37:22 *zolk3ri* hugs stassats 14:37:28 oh boy 14:37:50 cute :-) 14:38:01 ah yes, right. thanks a lot. Got confused because 'function gives me the symbol and the generic. 14:38:40 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:39:23 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:28 does anyone have a nice little hack to add docstrings from hyperspec? 14:40:15 why would you want to do that? 14:40:41 so that (describe 'car) will show the hyperspec documentation, 14:40:58 why not just go to the hyperspec directly? 14:41:05 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:08 describe can't show hyperlinks and whatnot 14:41:18 it could, in theory. 14:41:36 in either case, hyperspec in docstring is what i'd like 14:41:39 C-c C-d h in slime brings you hyperspec 14:42:22 thank you stassats, that is not what i want though 14:42:42 then just stop wanting what you want! 14:43:17 lol 14:43:42 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:52 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:43:52 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 14:43:58 it is not unreasonable to have hyperspec in docstrings 14:44:09 it is, actually 14:44:17 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 first, it won't be hyper 14:44:38 sure it will be 14:44:47 there is nothing about describe that stops it from being "hyper" 14:45:00 this has been done since the early 80's. 14:45:05 -!- agumonkey [~agu@63.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:06 except that it is a STRING 14:45:18 the describe with hyper is C-c C-d h 14:45:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:45:32 C-c C-d h t C-c ESC h C-x d RET 14:45:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:45:58 statstats, thank you for your help, you can stop caring now. 14:46:23 don't tell me what to care about! 14:46:28 that's my job 14:46:41 why are you being such a rude person? 14:46:58 because i know better than you, of course 14:47:19 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.173.63] has joined #lisp 14:47:20 lol zorkmoid he's like that to me too, but he can't make me hate him. 14:47:49 i don't know the person, so i can't hate him or her, but stassats is quite rude. 14:48:54 fascinating stuff 14:48:59 maybe there is someone else who has ideas about (describe 'car) outputting hyperspec instead. 14:49:16 agumonkey [~agu@63.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:18 stassats: what did you do today? 14:49:30 back to writting lisp code for a living, whoop whoop 14:50:01 whoop 14:50:12 op op oppa 14:50:21 zorkmoid: the Common Lisp HyperSpec is a formatted version of the standard, is it not? your code isn't included in the standard, is it? you can convert it into a clickable form, but it wouldn't be The Common Lisp HyperSpec. 14:50:53 madnificent: HyperSpec is not the standard 14:50:53 madnificent: you can stop caring! 14:51:15 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:51:54 jdz: except that it is 14:52:12 stassats: not in the context of what madnificent said 14:52:13 expect that it isn't. 14:52:27 jdz: care to explain in what way? 14:52:35 that it is not the offical standard document whatever is quite unimportant. 14:52:48 pval [~user@53.red-80-28-65.adsl.dynamic.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:34 madnificent: in the way you yourself say that whatever zorkmoid puts in the output of DESCRIBE won't be The Common Lisp HyperSpec 14:53:35 bah, can't write. 14:53:44 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:12 jdz: no, that's not an explanation 14:54:35 * explenation 14:54:46 *explanation 14:54:55 -!- quizme [~quizme@112.210.48.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:10 it is not so much as having the "standard" available through DESCRIBE, but having the text available easily via DESCRIBE, that it isn't the offical blessed text by ANSI is quite unimportant 14:55:10 ok 14:55:35 *madnificent* wants to know in what way the hyperspec differs from the ansi standardized text. 14:55:48 aside from formatting 14:56:02 it doesn't, though it still isn't the standard :-) 14:56:12 madnificent: nobody reads the standardized ansi text 14:56:18 that's the difference 14:56:40 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:43 stassats: but is the content, or the words, have you, different? 14:57:02 not intentionally 14:57:04 anyway... if hyperspec is the offical text or not is well to me not relevant, i just want the text avaiable from hyperspec via DESCRIBE, no matter what standards say. 14:57:06 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:07 1.4.3 etc hint at it containing the official content 14:57:11 by definition nobody knows, because nobody reads the ANSI version 14:57:33 so then... jdz... you were actually just talking crap? 14:57:37 because you don't know? 14:57:59 madnificent: i don't know what? 14:58:02 can we be nice? 14:58:11 what the difference is, or if there even are differences 14:58:22 zorkmoid: of course not, this is #lisp 14:58:29 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.188] has joined #lisp 14:58:32 if so, please don't throw FUD around. and i'll stop caring right now :) 14:58:34 madnificent: nobody knows what the diffs are, really, since nobody has a copy of the offical standard. 14:58:36 stassats: thanks 14:58:37 You could try paying him to be nice. 14:58:50 madnificent: my remark was that your answer was irrelevant to what zorkmoid wants. that is all. 14:58:52 zorkmoid: i'm certain someone has it 14:58:53 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:54 Guys, stop writing so fast. I can't read everything you wrote ._. 14:58:59 madnificent: the hyperspec is based on the tex files from pitman, which are not the offical standard, but a draft, which ansi took and did stuff too 14:59:14 jdz: no, that was not your remark. but let's just drop it, and head back to lisp on #lisp. 14:59:26 madnificent: no, you are the wrong one. i win. 14:59:29 hitecnologys: read slower 14:59:33 it is all standard speak really... 14:59:38 jdz: you win! now shut up 14:59:46 madnificent: no, i have the last word. 14:59:58 the nice thing about the hyperspec is the hyperlinks, which you don't get with describe output 14:59:59 i want to have Koran verses to be output by DESCRIBE, how do I achieve that noble goal? 15:00:02 zorkmoid: aha. now i kind-of wonder what the ansi did to it 15:00:41 stassats: describe-object may help you there ^_^ 15:00:45 madnificent: probobly nothing, basically when it comes to standards is that what was accepted was what ansi has, not the hyperspec 15:01:01 rogers_ [~rogers@109.227.33.255] has joined #lisp 15:01:04 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:25 madnificent: so even if they are exactly the same, in content, the hyperspec is "not the standard" ... 15:01:29 stupid, yes. 15:01:36 a_BossBOY [~a_BossBOY@unaffiliated/a-bossboy/x-6303536] has joined #lisp 15:01:39 zorkmoid: so, what you're saying is, the CLHS contains whatever the standard is... but for nitpicking in on #lisp it's allowed to bitch about it. 15:01:54 also, the reasoning still holds 15:01:55 yes! 15:01:58 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:04 :-) 15:02:13 -!- a_BossBOY [~a_BossBOY@unaffiliated/a-bossboy/x-6303536] has left #lisp 15:02:14 because if it doesn't go from your docstrings to the clhs, then it doesn't progress to the spec either. 15:02:52 green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 15:02:56 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:58 madnificent: i didn't want to change them, just have access to the hyperspec (and as an extention, the standard) via DESCRIBE 15:03:14 don't care if the result is not the blessed standard, or the hyperspec, or whatever. 15:03:51 i know, but what was said was that the reasoning was wrong, and i disagree. either case, C-d d does what you need 15:04:01 clearly it does not 15:04:12 (describe 'car) --> hyperspec docstring 15:04:19 that clearly is not C-d d .. 15:04:32 Aw, crap, too fast. =( 15:04:42 hitecnologys: that's what she said 15:04:54 sorry, had to 15:05:07 *stassats* waits until the silly hour ends 15:05:08 zolk3ri: who is "she"? 15:05:21 hitecnologys: never mind :P 15:05:21 hitecnologys: the person who is not he 15:05:28 lol 15:05:50 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:27 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:08:35 wish people wrote more code in common lisp 15:08:59 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:01 Fuf, read everything. 15:09:25 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-128-224.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:09:37 Thanks for a little break. 15:09:43 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-128-224.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:32 Put a gun to programmers' heads and scream, 'Code in CL! NOW!' ? 15:11:24 If everyone will code on CL, then CL will become CL-PHP, imo. 15:11:46 Forty-Two [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:51 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:35 hitecnologys: why do you think #lisp is harsh to the newcomers? 15:13:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-85.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:20 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6DED7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:13:32 stassats: I don't think so 15:14:22 stassats: but if CL will become popular, everyone will think that it's language 'for code monkeys'. 15:14:30 ikki [~ikki@187.240.222.65] has joined #lisp 15:14:37 oh, isn't it? 15:14:56 hitecnologys: not really ... 15:15:18 zorkmoid: maybe, it's just my opinion, not truth. 15:16:40 -!- Forty-Two [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:46 hitecnologys: the problem with php is not that people code in it, it is the language. 15:16:57 our problem is not the language, but that nobody codes in cl. 15:17:13 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 15:17:21 zorkmoid: that last statement is false 15:17:41 not really. 15:17:44 our problem is that if stupid people code on some language, then it becomes bad language. 15:17:54 that's the problem I think. 15:18:00 all languages are good. 15:18:01 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:6dd3:c036:7b94:f272] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:03 hitecnologys: the language doesn't change cause people write in it. 15:18:12 hitecnologys: php and perl are good examples of bad languages 15:18:15 (except BASIC) 15:18:21 (and COBOL) 15:18:36 (and PASCAL, Delphi, etc of course) 15:19:12 hitecnologys: they where bad because the languages where bad, not because of people programming in them. 15:19:22 BASIC lacked functions, and you used hairy constructs... 15:19:24 Anyway, the problem is in the people. 15:19:34 (this is 60's basic, later basic' where half sane( 15:19:37 )) 15:19:52 The problem is in creators or developers. 15:19:53 I could see Lisp macros getting a really bad reputation, and On Lisp being banned from company libraries 15:20:10 COBOL these days is quite decent ... strange enough. 15:20:13 (e.g., I've been reading McCLIM code recently, and it's over-macroified IMO) 15:20:18 Not in languages because languages can't create themselves. 15:20:18 pascal has always been good enough 15:20:35 rudi, that might be true, people wrote code differently 10, 20 eyars back. 15:20:45 zorkmoid: mcclim's code i find nice though 15:21:08 it's nice, and then you try to fix some subtle bug in the layout algorithms 15:21:14 at which point you find the dada macro 15:21:22 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:b993:160a:b27:235d] has joined #lisp 15:21:30 oh, youfixing mcclim? 15:21:31 rudi: Just wait for javascript macros to take off. 15:22:22 rudi, and remember, the tools we had in the 70's for working with lisp where much much much better than they are today :( 15:22:35 As least so far as anyone can remember. 15:22:48 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 15:22:48 zorkmoid: I don't think so. 15:22:49 no, my mcclim hacking days are over .. these days I'm just implementing an abcl backend 15:23:07 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:23:14 Zhivago: well, i was hacking on my bolix this weekend :-) 15:23:39 Do you get a darwin award for that? 15:23:47 today we have lot's of things of which people from '70 can't even think. (I'm sure I said it incorrectly) 15:23:56 hitecnologys: like? 15:24:14 only thing i am missing is colours, but the console is monochrome so .. 15:24:20 DCVS! 15:24:22 zorkmoid: powerful computers, great compilers. 15:24:43 Cheap virtual machines, otherwise known as processes. 15:25:01 Zhivago: chep processes are easily doable on a bolix 15:25:07 the cpu is a bit lacknig, yes ... 15:25:21 but then again, it is workable system, and has nothing to do with the envirnonent 15:25:32 And most important: knowledge. 15:25:58 sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:58 We know about all mistakes that people from '70 made. 15:26:04 okie, so fluffy things ... 15:26:20 Bell-bottoms. 15:26:23 i am talking about actually working with lisp code on a bolix, vs. emacs+slime 15:26:46 What is a bolix? 15:27:05 symbolics machine, a lisp machine. 15:27:41 Ah. 15:28:38 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:29:15 heck ... even climacs and the mcclim listener is nicer than using emacs+slime.. 15:29:17 What do they offer that aren't available with emacs+slime? 15:29:26 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:101:b993:160a:b27:235d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:06 vim rules. 15:30:17 segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-108-73-162-220.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:41 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:46 minion: memo for chitofan: if you want to do embedded programming with Common Lisp, you could talk about it here. Even if you're only using Common Lisp to generate the embedded code (ie. not running a full fleshed CL implementation on the embedded system). 15:30:46 Remembered. I'll tell chitofan when he/she/it next speaks. 15:31:00 -!- jarmond [~user@137.205.238.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:31:23 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 15:31:23 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 15:31:23 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 15:32:39 minion: memo for chitofan: For a start, read about RAX! http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/m/pub-archive/176h/0176%20(Havelund).pdf (and there's a video about it on youtube too). 15:32:39 Remembered. I'll tell chitofan when he/she/it next speaks. 15:32:57 btw, I'm still writing CL to dcpu-16 instructions compiler. Anyone want to help? 15:33:25 hitecnologys: oo.. sounds fnu 15:33:53 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-128-224.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:34:06 zorkmoid: fnu? 15:34:12 fun 15:34:15 aw, fun, sorry. 15:34:17 :-) 15:34:28 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:34 zorkmoid: actually, I did almost nothing ._. 15:34:44 what is almost nothing? 15:35:23 zorkmoid: http://goo.gl/JtR2S 15:35:25 jdz: madnificient is correct. The '*' is put before the incorrect forms (by linguists). * explenation / *explanation 15:35:25 15:36:12 zorkmoid: nothing, as you can see. 15:36:32 hitecnologys: you can link directly to github 15:36:52 without using url shorteners, in fact, it's preferred not to use them 15:36:53 stassats: I thought it was too long, sorry. 15:36:55 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 15:37:03 hitecnologys: interesting, have you considered working on an existing compiler instead? 15:37:24 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:32 zorkmoid: yep, I tried llvm 'addon' for DCPU-16. 15:37:33 usually when people want to write a compiler for lisp targetting something, they end up with not common lisp. 15:37:43 but with something ... else. 15:38:07 zorkmoid: it's the only available serious compiler. 15:38:31 zorkmoid: I want my compiler to compile itself as a result, lol. =3 15:38:47 ubii_ [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 15:39:06 well, that is quite simple to achive 15:39:31 zorkmoid: sure, bit it's difficult because I have no experience in it. 15:39:42 hitecnologys: ah, have you read SICP? 15:39:47 zorkmoid: that's why I decided to try. 15:40:00 zorkmoid: almost read. About 70% of it. 15:42:05 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:43:41 -!- ubii_ is now known as ubii 15:44:41 -!- green_ [~green@dsl-173-206-77-152.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:25 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:49:04 hitecnologys: for lisp compilers there is also Lisp In Small Pieces 15:49:08 anton____ [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 15:49:11 -!- anton____ [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:17 minion: LiSP? 15:49:17 LiSP: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 15:49:25 (incf LiSP) great read. 15:49:32 antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has joined #lisp 15:49:40 sadly, not common lisp. :( 15:49:41 mhr [60fd627c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.98.124] has joined #lisp 15:49:48 -!- mhr [60fd627c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.253.98.124] has quit [Client Quit] 15:50:05 :) 15:50:09 Reading it now. 15:50:13 doesn't really matter. It covers some ideas from common lisp. 15:50:35 minion: PCL? 15:50:35 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 15:50:47 I like that it explores why certain decisions were made in the design of various members of the lisp family. It even talks about issues with first-class lexenvs. 15:51:07 sykopomp: it does matter, since it skips quite alot that is common lisp. 15:51:17 sykopomp: what it describes is something with parens as syntax, and scheme. 15:51:51 still a good book 15:51:56 zorkmoid: it describes a number of languages, and the lessons are pretty applicable to understanding CL's design. 15:52:07 it doesn't exactly describe scheme either. 15:52:09 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:52:28 istr it having a discussion about multiple namespaces, too. 15:52:35 sykopomp: knowing common lisp quite well, i respectfuly disagree 15:52:40 so I'd certainly say it's a relevant read for CL users. 15:53:28 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:48 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 15:53:56 sykopomp: well, in the same manner that reading Recursive Functions of Symbolic Expressions and Their Computation by Machine .is useful for cl users 15:54:42 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-243-46.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:55:06 zorkmoid: oh yeah, that document is awesome. 15:55:57 sykopomp: don't you get? CL users aren't allowed to read anything which is not about CL 15:56:21 stassats: you're probably right. I'm going to go buy some paul graham books. 15:56:40 stassats, why you such a grumpy man? cheer up 15:56:48 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 Lol. 15:57:14 zorkmoid: why are you so worried? 15:57:15 stasats you even got a hug today! :-) 15:57:31 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58:21 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 16:00:24 elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 16:00:55 -!- rogers_ [~rogers@109.227.33.255] has quit [Quit: rogers_] 16:03:34 PuffTheMagic___ [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-firleqmlyjcgwyjg] has joined #lisp 16:03:37 -!- PuffTheMagic___ is now known as PuffTheMagic 16:03:44 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-firleqmlyjcgwyjg] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:44 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 16:03:44 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:44 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-firleqmlyjcgwyjg] has joined #lisp 16:03:47 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:03:56 paul0 [~paul0@187.65.217.71] has joined #lisp 16:04:46 Okay, time to go to bed. Bye, guys. 16:04:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:04:59 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.2.220] has quit [Quit: zzz...] 16:06:16 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-133-164.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:44 paul0_ [~paul0@177.132.100.37] has joined #lisp 16:08:09 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.65.217.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:09 -!- paul0_ is now known as paul0 16:08:34 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has joined #lisp 16:09:40 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:57 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-108-73-162-220.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:10:19 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:33 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has joined #lisp 16:10:33 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has quit [Client Quit] 16:10:41 rogers_ [~rogers@109.227.33.255] has joined #lisp 16:13:16 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:14:24 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:15:27 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 16:20:01 stassats, sykopomp: and how would I get the _documentation_ etc. of a (SETF fn) in swank? Using #'(setf fn) just gives me the raw FUNCTION. 16:20:47 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:19 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has joined #lisp 16:21:21 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.132.100.37] has quit [Quit: paul0] 16:21:23 dunno about swank/slime, (describe '(setf car)) works ... 16:21:36 probobly would work as well in swank 16:22:58 flip214: C-c I #'(setf fn) RET 16:24:04 sykopomp: please don't talk emacs to me. and no, swank doesn't give me the docstring for that. 16:24:47 flip214: ah, you meant through raw swank. 16:25:15 zorkmoid: yes, I found (describe), too. but I'm trying to expand swank-fancy-inspector ... 16:25:28 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:19 sbcl has (defmethod describe-object ((x cons) s) 16:26:30 and that calls describe-function ... 16:27:09 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:21 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:28 clhs documentation 16:27:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_docume.htm 16:27:37 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:43 are you trying to only get the docstring?... 16:28:05 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:58 fdefinition works to get the function, ok. 16:29:09 yes, I guess it would be nice to show that, too. 16:30:00 Thra11 [~thrall@54.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:45 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:30:45 got (documentation), thanks. 16:31:10 -!- pval [~user@53.red-80-28-65.adsl.dynamic.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:31:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:31:59 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:21 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:32:31 Joreji [~thomas@83-129.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:53 -!- Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:33:12 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:28 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:08 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 16:35:59 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:39:48 slime-maintainers, please take a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/134806. thanks a lot. 16:41:26 Ymir [~ymirr@188.115.11.62] has joined #lisp 16:43:17 sellout- [~Adium@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:52 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:47:55 care to explain what you want to do? 16:48:36 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:50:40 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:52:15 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:53:27 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:58 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:58 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 16:55:50 tanderson [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:03 hey 16:56:16 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:29 I got a question: what's the file extension for files containing Lisp code? 16:56:35 .lisp 16:56:44 H4ns: thanks 16:58:11 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:24 -!- agumonkey [~agu@63.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:58:34 agumonkey [~agu@63.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:34 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:35 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 17:02:22 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 17:02:32 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 17:02:38 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:48 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 17:09:33 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:42 wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@ip68-8-180-107.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:56 n0vember [~n0vember@shutdown.illusi0n.org] has joined #lisp 17:13:57 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:07 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:49 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 17:19:31 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.200.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:40 pancho [~francisco@190.190.114.247] has joined #lisp 17:21:28 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.200.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:53 -!- rogers_ [~rogers@109.227.33.255] has quit [Quit: rogers_] 17:23:21 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:23:28 -!- wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@ip68-8-180-107.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25:50 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 17:26:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.200.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:27:46 xan_ [~xan@80.224.236.100.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:52 -!- Guest39930 is now known as asciilifeform 17:28:13 kofno [~kofno@216.116.221.61] has joined #lisp 17:29:25 Ymir: some people name their lisp files .cl, but they are weirdos ((-; 17:29:44 or .l 17:29:57 that I haven't seen in the wild yet (: 17:30:01 it's more efficient! less typing! 17:30:42 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:07 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:31:52 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:12 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:32:14 antifuchs: maybe not that weird. if you're using emacs, and you open a new file and you write .lisp, it might interpret it as elisp rather than common lisp 17:32:31 elisp is .el, pretty much across the board (: 17:32:32 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is .el, pretty much across the board (:. 17:32:43 I mean, convention-wise, it seems like .cl would make sense 17:33:00 but .lisp is pretty established by now (and asdf defaults to it, AFAIK_ 17:33:51 ah lispy lisp 17:33:58 <3 17:34:00 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:07 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:34:07 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 17:34:07 antifuchs: so .lisp is ansi lisp on pretty much every file system? 17:34:16 ansi common lisp, sorry 17:34:26 flip214: "it has a SETF expansion" isn't the best choice of wors 17:34:40 Ymir: I think that's a reasonable thing to expect 17:35:03 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:08 don't think I have seen much evidence to the contrary yet (but then, I haven't had to build an ANSI CL on DOS yet) (: 17:35:16 -!- kofno [~kofno@216.116.221.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:35:36 antifuchs: right. i was told emacs had it's own lisp and you had to declare an 'inferior lisp' for it to use some other dialect of lisp 17:36:01 Ymir: check out slime for that! it bundles everything up into a very nice package 17:36:20 also, if you haven't seen it yet, get slime (and everything else) via quicklisp. 17:36:37 can't recommend these two things highly enough. they're wonderful (: 17:36:39 Ymir: emacs lisp files generally end with .el 17:36:51 *madnificent* notices he repeats stuff, my bad 17:37:01 it's just a convention, it means hardly anything 17:37:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@brln-4d0c1ea6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:16 lacedaemon [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:37:17 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.222.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:37:25 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:37:42 two-: are you going to say the same about languages too? most of what we do is based on conventions :) 17:37:47 if I have gcl and load a .lisp file into emacs, then press compile, will it send the file straight to the right compiler (gcl)? 17:38:01 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:01 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:22 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.211.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:44 madnificent, it's true,, in 20 years we won't have to fill our minds up with syntax details 17:38:51 :) 17:39:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.224.236.100.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:39:19 Ymir: if you're starting out, i'd put my trust in SBCL or CCL, if at all possible. GCL isn't actively maintained AFAIK 17:39:27 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-fsohkzeomjahhefg] has joined #lisp 17:41:25 madnificent: doesn't look like ccl is available on debian's apt. is SBCL a lisp IDE? 17:41:37 Davidbrcz_ [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:41:38 as well as a compiler 17:41:54 it says it's a CL compiler and development system 17:42:04 Ymir: SBCL is a lisp implementation (and it has a compiler that results in fast code) 17:42:33 Ymir: but for sanity, you'll want to use it in conjunction with emacs and slime 17:42:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:43:41 can it work with SICP Scheme? just wondering, MIT/GNU is too cumbersome for my tastes and Dr Racket doubles my computers RAM usage 17:44:54 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.211.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:45:11 scheme is not common lisp, the languages are different 17:45:55 hi 17:45:56 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:45:59 before I release 2.27, 17:46:13 should I rename my run-program/ to just run-program ? or run-program* ? 17:46:33 Fare: run-program was deprecated, correct? 17:46:38 i know, but i'd expect some overlap in the community and applications, seeing as how influential a few of the scheme based books are 17:46:40 the / used to make sense because I had run-program/read-output-string, run-program/read-output-forms, etc. 17:46:43 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.135.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:58 ASau [~user@46.115.91.173] has joined #lisp 17:46:59 was just wondering. I'm learning both CL and SICP's Scheme 17:47:01 but now it's all a keyword argument :output that is processed by a gf slurp-input-stream 17:47:08 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:47:08 madnificent, no, run-shell-command is deprecated 17:47:14 run-program/ is its replacement. 17:47:14 Ymir: there are big differences which make roughly all source code incompatible. for instance, scheme doesn't have a different namespace for variables and functions. 17:47:30 which actually works 17:47:33 Fare: then what is against calling it run-program? 17:47:46 my body of code, only 17:47:50 which I can fix 17:48:10 I was looking for a reason to call it anything but run-program 17:48:22 madnificent: right. the two are different. i thought maybe a plug-in of sorts, but apparently not. anyways, thanks for your info, installing SBCL right now 17:48:26 *madnificent* can't find any reason. looks in the room. 17:48:40 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:48:44 Ymir: not that i know of :) good luck 17:51:14 madnificent: thanks 17:52:23 OK, renaming run-program/ to simply run-program. 17:52:26 ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has joined #lisp 17:54:57 \o/ 17:55:14 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 17:55:37 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.66.31] has joined #lisp 17:55:58 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:58:53 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.181] has joined #lisp 17:59:12 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.181] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:24 bondar [~bondar@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 17:59:36 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:36 -!- lacedaemon [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:36 -!- eataix [eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:36 -!- sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:36 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cgfjtnyrtagusqgr] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:36 -!- renard_ [~renard@2a01:e0b:1:150:ca0a:a9ff:fef1:a847] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:36 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@boots.boinkor.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:36 -!- asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-avryoxkusvwrtgme] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:59:53 eataix [eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 18:00:03 asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-hjjcrrpdezthuqcb] has joined #lisp 18:00:04 -!- leoc [~leoc.git@g229059144.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:00:04 varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpzkhscshisscmjp] has joined #lisp 18:00:17 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-134-7.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:20 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003e8e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.62] has joined #lisp 18:00:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.69.62] has quit [Changing host] 18:00:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:00:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 18:01:03 renard_ [~renard@2a01:e0b:1:150:ca0a:a9ff:fef1:a847] has joined #lisp 18:01:38 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.63] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 18:01:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-129.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:02:36 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.210.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.135.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:03:44 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:17 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:04:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:06:11 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:06:16 Greetings lispers 18:06:25 morning 18:06:48 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:08:37 hello ThomasH 18:08:46 hum 18:09:06 what's a better name than :path for an argument specifying accessors to a sub-object 18:09:31 i.e. (sub-object x '(foo bar baz)) = (baz (bar (foo x))) 18:09:46 with an integer being short for corresponding elt 18:10:02 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 18:10:02 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 18:10:10 e.g. (sub-object x '(2 3 4)) = (elt (elt (elt x 2) 3) 4) 18:10:24 -!- xristos is now known as Guest23390 18:10:31 Fare: I've used "at" and "@" for that in the past. 18:10:44 :at ? 18:10:48 I've also seen "chain" 18:10:54 antifuchs [~foobar@boots.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:03 :at is good 18:11:08 I think I'll use thta 18:12:19 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:29 :at is a good keyword argument 18:12:35 should the function also be named at? 18:13:11 I always have to TIAS to determine if I like some approach. 18:14:23 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:35 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:46 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-109-243-49-63.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:16:09 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:40 at doesn't sound such a great function name 18:18:43 chain neither 18:18:50 my current choice of sub-object is meh 18:18:57 TIAS ? 18:19:24 look-at ? 18:19:26 meh 18:19:27 *madnificent* thinks he used o for it in the past. because it looks like a dot. 18:19:30 *madnificent* dislikes it 18:19:36 meh 18:19:57 traverse, maybe 18:20:04 no 18:20:10 access ? 18:20:44 i think the word should hint at some nesting/wrapping going on 18:20:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:20:59 zajn [~zajn@adsl-68-127-127-121.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:28 what if there aren't? a lot of the time, there's just one accessor 18:21:35 An updated Weyl(computer algebra substrate) repository is available at: https://github.com/OdonataResearchLLC/weyl . It will load using ASDF in SBCL, check it out if that sort of thing interests you. 18:21:51 sounds cool 18:22:07 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:22:13 how does it compare to maxima, etc. ? 18:22:17 luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:21 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.56.177] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:22:35 ah no, you're doing something different than what i assumed (at least, your second example does something odd) 18:22:44 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:23:45 (access object '(bar 0 foo)) => (foo (elt (bar object) 0) ? 18:24:06 you don't like the special casing for cl sequences? 18:24:44 I suppose I'll stick with sub-object for now 18:24:47 no, i don't. but you probably use a somewhat different style than i. that style may warrant support for it. 18:24:57 Fare: at/@/chain have precedents in other lisp libraries. 18:25:09 Fare: It is a lot different than maxima, it is geared toward being used from other programs and in the REPL. In many ways, it is much less complete, but I think it has a lot of potential. It falls in the "hidden gem" common lisp code category. Something that just needs a little refresh to be useful. 18:25:22 well, @ and chain do, at least (see parenscript) 18:25:32 Fare: if you add support for numbers, support for keywords could be interesting too. you could assume a plist in that case. 18:25:36 which is why I've used those names myself 18:25:42 madnificent, indeed 18:25:55 ThomasH: What's it use from SBCL? 18:26:12 madnificent, indeed this function is ugly enough that I want a name that's not too short 18:26:24 but practical enough that I want it not too long 18:26:34 access is good, but a bit too confusing. 18:26:37 Fare: deep-access ? 18:26:44 need not be deep 18:26:46 access-at ? 18:27:06 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:10 it shouts "read the documentation, i'm doing something odd". that's a good thing. 18:27:16 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:27:25 Bike: MOP stuff, it should be fairly easy to get it working on other implementations using closer-mop. I was working on SBCL when I went through it and didn't want package dependencies the first time through. 18:27:25 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:27:30 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:27:35 -!- arrdem_ is now known as arrdem 18:27:53 ThomasH: oh, i see. i was assuming stuff to make vectors faster or something. anyway, i'll check it out later 18:28:12 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:48 Fare: it could be fun to make it user-extensible, but it'd be or no reason. 18:29:08 s/or/for/ 18:29:12 Bike: Nope, no performance hacks, it doesn't seem mature enough for anything like that. 18:29:48 heh. 18:29:49 yeah, I don't want a gf in that particular library 18:29:53 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.10.173.63] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 18:29:58 Fare: $ (: 18:30:02 it's more for bootstrap purposes than for general use 18:30:06 insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has joined #lisp 18:30:14 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 Bike: The best thing to do is work through the user manual. I actually haven't worked on it in a couple years other than to clean it up for Github. 18:30:29 I want it no less reusable than needed, but not more extensible than called for 18:30:37 access-at is by best shot 18:30:46 all sounds sane to me 18:31:01 short enough that it's not painful, yet odd enough that you won't use it without reading the doc. 18:32:18 -!- arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:33:05 arrdem [~arrdem@dhcp-53-132.ece.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 18:35:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:35:59 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:37:48 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 18:37:52 thanks for the advice 18:37:59 *Fare* is moving towards releasing ASDF 2.27 18:38:03 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:38:13 nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:42 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:39:48 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-weqwbczykqfftyqi] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:42:29 is there a SLIME setup tutorial? 18:43:06 arrdem: install quicklisp-slime-helper using quicklisp, read what the screen shows as instructions, execute, done. 18:43:20 ha, I can't export RUN-PROGRAM from ASDF, because ASDF is used by SB-GROVEL. 18:43:28 I'll just export it from ASDF-DRIVER. 18:43:35 is that OK? 18:43:49 Or is it a case for renaming it to run-program/ or run-command ? 18:44:00 or spawn-program, etc. 18:45:52 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:03 *Fare* opts for not exporting, for now. Meh. 18:46:56 sbcl vs clisp? 18:46:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:47:05 Fight! 18:47:07 sbcl 18:47:08 arrdem: sbcl compiles to machine code. 18:47:33 arrdem: SBCL on Linux, CCL on windows, LispWorks if you want something commercial 18:47:43 okey doke 18:47:47 clisp always has an "interesting" interpretation of the standard. 18:48:00 ck_ [~kc@dslb-188-097-134-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:28 green_ [green@nat/redhat/x-ddinclufxsletpfx] has joined #lisp 18:53:58 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-866C44C.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 18:53:58 -!- luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 18:54:18 -!- bondar [~bondar@41.72.193.86] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:36 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:54:41 benny [~user@i577A73C7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:59 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:56:01 luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:02 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-866C44C.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 18:56:03 -!- luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:48 OK, run tests and if they pass, release. 18:57:11 tests make my laptop overheat and shutdown... 18:57:22 Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has joined #lisp 18:57:30 Oh yeah, have to manually test on lispworks-personal-edition and genera... 18:57:33 herm... so if I follow the quicklisp helper instructions, have sbcl installed and then C-c C-l to eval my file I get an error that I have no lisp subps 18:58:07 arrdem: did you start slime with M-x slime? 18:58:19 H4ns: yes 18:58:24 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:58:43 would it be possible to print some symbols differently, but not the others? 18:58:50 arrdem: i use C-c C-k to compile my lisp buffer 18:58:53 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:00:12 H4ns: if I C-c C-k I get the same error. 19:00:15 *two-* was thinking of binding a bunch of keys to C-f2-<___> 19:00:51 arrdem: interesting. do you have a *slime-repl sbcl* and an *inferior-lisp* buffer? 19:01:03 arrdem: (C-x C-b) 19:02:01 H4ns: hold please unborking my .emacs 19:02:26 luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:34 also, can someone tell me why this doesnt work? http://paste.lisp.org/display/134809 19:03:19 it says |#t| is unbound 19:03:44 well #t reads as |#t| which is unbound 19:04:02 its quoted, so I was hopinit will return the symbol 19:04:03 maybe you want to (setf |#t| '|#t|) ? 19:04:11 it's quoted at read-time 19:04:20 then when evaluated... 19:04:27 hmm, true 19:04:29 -!- green_ [green@nat/redhat/x-ddinclufxsletpfx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:04:51 ah, right 19:04:53 thank you 19:05:04 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:16 hmm but this way, I can make #t a class instead of symbol 19:05:48 sytse [sytse@swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 19:07:31 what? 19:07:57 Ener2: classes and symbols are orthogonal concepts in cl 19:08:04 Ener2: what are you trying to do? 19:08:07 green_ [green@nat/redhat/x-ofvgkrnpavjnmtjp] has joined #lisp 19:08:50 H4ns: after unborking yes I do 19:09:11 well I have my semi scheme in lisp 19:09:20 completely with stacks, continuations and so 19:09:25 but it uses lisp mechanics 19:09:30 such as t, nil 19:09:37 instead of #t #f in scheme 19:09:40 and yet it's using the CL reader? 19:09:44 yes 19:09:44 arrdem: i'd further unbork the .emacs file. maybe you could start with a .emacs that only contains the slime startup code as shown by quicklisp-slime-helper instructs. 19:10:04 H4ns: I 19:10:15 Ener2: that doesn't answer the question, though, what are you trying to do? 19:10:26 -!- green_ [green@nat/redhat/x-ofvgkrnpavjnmtjp] has quit [Client Quit] 19:10:40 H4ns: I'm down to the marmalade code and the quicklisp slime code as my only configuration of emacs 19:10:58 well, having |#t| as symbol would be horrible 19:11:19 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:11:22 so now reader will actually give singleton instance of true class which would print as #t, ie all nice 19:11:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:56 arrdem: what's the file name of the lisp buffer that C-c C-k does not work in? 19:12:22 Ener2: i'd write a reader for the scheme and not try to mess with the cl reader to make it read scheme 19:12:34 Ener2: (set-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\t (lambda (&rest args) (declare (ignore args)) t)) (set-pprint-dispatch '(eql t) (lambda (stream object) (princ "#t" stream))) 19:12:39 H4ns: I think I just managed to get it to heal itself.. 19:12:55 statssats well that was my first question 19:13:30 *arrdem* does a jig 19:13:47 but it still will fail with #f and nil being the same 19:14:11 -!- Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:22 if you to have a full implementation of scheme, don't use the CL reader 19:15:14 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:22 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:27 otherwise, don't import NIL from the CL package 19:15:39 Fare: I think the only thing missing is the issue with :around-compile 19:15:47 Fare: I'll try to come up with a small test case 19:16:13 Fare: I got gcl from cvs to build, if you are interested. 19:18:13 fe[nl]ix, what issue is that? 19:18:30 it doesn't seem to work at all 19:18:37 uh? 19:18:44 it used to, for me at least 19:19:35 if I try to muffle the infamous sb-int:package-at-variance condition inside it, it has no effect 19:19:52 if I do it inside perform :around compile-op it works 19:20:04 there's a test/test-around-compile.script in asdf 19:20:15 it works 19:20:52 or you could wait for asdf 2.27 which muffles this one by default 19:20:57 dunno if it should 19:21:06 green_ [green@nat/redhat/x-xlfbkhlenbgvvtlm] has joined #lisp 19:21:58 OK, since 2.26, ASDF has almost exactly doubled in size. 19:21:59 Whoa. 19:22:04 That was a lot of hacking. 19:22:06 -!- asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-hjjcrrpdezthuqcb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:22:59 And so I grew it more than five-fold since I took it over. 19:23:09 I don't know that it's a good thing 19:23:24 asedeno_work [asedeno@nat/google/x-glzpodovqixwpldu] has joined #lisp 19:24:15 but oh well 19:24:25 it does much more, too, and now does it correctly. 19:24:36 prxq: how did you do that??? 19:24:59 prxq: can send a recipe to me, with a cc: to gcl-devel ? 19:25:18 Fare: ok, will do so. 19:25:28 prxq, on what OS/distribution? 19:25:41 and can you list dependencies? 19:25:45 Fare: ubuntu 12.04, x86-64 19:25:57 excellent - I will install that this week 19:26:12 I have it on a desktop at work, actually, more or less 19:26:15 nikodem [~nikodem@user-164-126-35-96.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:26:17 basically, I had to install gmp4, because it doesn't build with gmp5 (which is what comes with u. 12.04) 19:26:38 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:57 wow, good to know 19:27:16 can you test asdf? It's unlikely to work, but... 19:27:16 -!- sellout- [~Adium@ip-64-134-231-240.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:27:21 other than that I don't know, because I have lots of -dev packages installed. 19:27:33 Fare: maybe. How do I do that? 19:27:38 is that gcl 2.6 or 2.7? Which are they developing these days? 19:27:44 2.7 19:28:01 2.7.0 it says. 19:28:11 check out a git repo of asdf, and make t l=gcl 19:28:21 the ansi-tests do not run to completion. 19:28:22 -!- antonv [5d7d2a66@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:28:28 Fare, ok, will do. 19:28:31 wait, maybe it's make t l=gclcvs -- dunno 19:29:06 whichever way your gcl is called. 19:29:17 I had to do some modifications to the configure script. 19:29:32 well, a trivial one, but finding it was fun :-) 19:29:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:29:37 You may need to export GCL_ANSI=t to get gcl to work with asdf. the test system does it for itself. 19:31:23 clisp also has an -ansi flag. (setf custom:*ansi* t) 19:32:36 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:32:38 there's a joke about the consultant who fixes a big expensive machine by tightening one screw, and sending an invoice with the line item "tightening a screw, $1000". The customer complains that he refuses to pay $1000 for a screw tightening, so the consultant comes back with an invoice with two line items "a- tightening a screw, $1. b- finding which screw to tighen, $999" 19:33:03 pjb`, isn't it the default, these days? 19:33:32 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:12 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:56 Nope. 19:37:42 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:37:47 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.28.188] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 19:38:30 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:11 ouch 19:39:41 happily, the asdf tests explicitly use -ansi 19:40:50 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:57 should I consider these upgrade woes on ABCL, CLISP, CMUCL as showstoppers for release? 19:41:20 I have a semi-working punt of renaming away package ASDF to ASDF-2.26 (or whatever version) 19:43:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9674.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:08 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:46:29 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 19:47:45 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:48:42 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:05 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:19 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:51:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:32 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:54:25 Ener2 [~enerccio@158.194.169.56] has joined #lisp 19:54:48 is there a reader in lisp which will return s-expression, but as it was readed, ie without reader macros 19:56:51 with-standard-io-syntax maybe? 19:57:18 (with-open-file (file pathname :direction :input) (with-standard-io-syntax (setq data (read file)))) is given as an example in (info "(ansicl) with-standard-io-syntax") 19:57:44 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_std_.htm 19:57:49 that'll still have all sorts of reader macros 19:57:52 w-s-io-s 19:57:57 minion: w-s-io-s 19:57:57 of course, ( is a reader macro 19:57:58 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``w-s-io-s''. 19:58:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:12 Ener2: write your own reader 19:58:19 Bike: the standard ones only, right? 19:58:34 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:58:55 well actually w-s-i-s only rebinds variables, it doesn't touch the readtable 19:59:03 and even if it did, i think ener2 doesn't want things like #. 19:59:03 Ener2, using CCL's source-note's, you can :) 19:59:05 *readtable* The standard readtable 19:59:16 well one of the variables it rebinds is *readtable* 19:59:22 oh, i suppose 19:59:30 asdf-driver:with-safe-io-syntax 19:59:32 but the standard readtable will still have a lot of things ener2 probably doesn't want 19:59:49 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:03:13 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:03:28 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:03:40 I see 20:03:54 well not like it is any hard, plus I can probably use read-delimited-list 20:04:09 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:04:22 that'll call read recursively 20:04:29 ah, I see 20:04:35 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:07:15 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:08:14 -!- invariant [~invariant@unaffiliated/invariant] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:08:23 Ener2: the lisp reader algorithm includes the execution of reader macros. 20:08:58 Ener2: you cannot read much in lisp without reader macros. Strings, lists, vectors, complexes, comments, everything is a read by standard reader macros. 20:09:21 You could only read integer, floatnig point numbers and ratios, with no reader macros. 20:09:27 and symbols. 20:11:08 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 20:11:57 kofno [~kofno@64.197.96.194] has joined #lisp 20:17:29 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-179-31.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:17:58 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:21:04 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:34 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-25-200-245.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:03 LiamH [~none@96.231.218.61] has joined #lisp 20:25:24 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-195-121.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:41 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:29:39 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: this computer sucks] 20:31:25 -!- ck_ [~kc@dslb-188-097-134-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:15 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:37:02 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:12 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:39:45 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-16-85.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:16 redscare [~Adium@CP-FIFTY-TWO.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:45:57 AeroNotix [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:46:05 are there any opinions on whether it is a good idea to use regex to split a string into parts based on delimiters? i.e. a string such as "a { b { d } e }" > (a (b ( d ) e)) 20:46:36 regular expressions can't do that 20:48:07 some complicated logic paired with them can though :) 20:48:39 writing parsers manually is extremely easy in lisp, coz they are naturally recursive 20:49:06 i was just wondering if there was some generally accepted approach to problems like these. it seems like a fairly common problem and I could see it get fairly hairy 20:49:19 well, you can substitute ( for { and ) for }, (format nil "(~A)" it) and read the whole thing in from there with read. 20:49:41 you can go overboard and go all monads/shmonads, but to me (let (... state ...) (flet (...(next ()) (expect-this ()) ) (big ass (ecase state)))) works fine 20:49:45 zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 20:49:49 redscare: there are some nice parsing packages for cl 20:50:29 redscare: you're better off using a real parser generator than regexes-hacked-up-to-have-more, is what i mean 20:50:29 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:35 does ppcre even have backtracking? 20:50:37 redscare: I'm a fan of smug for complex parsing tasks. 20:50:42 *maxm* re-read his sentence above and its too compressed for comprehension unless you actually done a few parsers I guess 20:50:46 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:57 redscare: If you like regex, there is cl-ppcre. There are several parser-generators to choose from, though, that will probably work better in the long run. 20:51:10 maxm: what I have right now is exactly that (huge ecase) 20:51:32 redscare: and you don't like it because? 20:52:03 redscare: You'll find one day that you've written a recursive descent parser without even realizing it. 20:52:12 maxm: this is mostly in the spirit of learning. it feels fairly hacked together. i mean it's extensible and does what i need but right now i have some down time and seeing an elegant solution would be interesting. 20:53:29 redscare: well I guess in a spirit of learning you could implement a few.. For myself no matter how interesting, if it works I leave it alone and go ahead trying to accomplish actual thing my software is for, otherwise i'll be diddling around writing utility libs forever 20:53:45 is smug the popular choice for this stuff? 20:54:07 there's also cl-yacc 20:54:11 maxm: I agree, I've just never used a parser generator before and figured this was an appropriate opportunity to learn 20:54:19 parser generation is one of the oldest problems in CS, there are lots of them around 20:54:50 -!- rob7n8h48 [~rob7n8h48@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:55:43 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 20:55:47 ck_ [~kc@dslb-188-097-134-072.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:52 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:08 hi all. is there a nice cross-platform library for calling getenv from CL? 20:56:27 cross-implementation, even. 20:56:34 wow, cvs suxorz (poking around in gcl) 20:57:49 zfx: triviall-shell has one, iirc 20:58:21 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:45 snearch [~snearch@f053006231.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:46 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:00:15 thanks, will have a look at that. 21:01:10 surprised that someone hasnt written a SUS wrapper  perhaps I should think about doing that. 21:02:31 zfx: SUS ? 21:02:43 Single Unix Specification 21:02:49 ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:27 or POSIX or whatever people want to call it. 21:03:27 -!- zajn [~zajn@adsl-68-127-127-121.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:44 zajn [~zajn@adsl-68-127-127-121.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:27 rob7n8h23 [~rob7n8h23@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 I think most people call it wishful thinking 21:06:25 zfx: the reason why nobody writes SUS is that nobody uses it! https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/susv3 21:06:55 zfx: a long time ago, I started a sourceforge projet to define a CL-POSIX API. But that projet has been garbage collected since it had so little activity. 21:08:26 zfx: there's iolib 21:09:31 I think I might just start growing one and throw it up on github if it accumulates enough wealth. thanks anyway. 21:09:32 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:11:10 -!- gensym_ [~gensym@85.158.178.76] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:11:44 gensym_ [~gensym@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 21:12:24 zfx: iolib.syscalls 21:12:54 why write another one ? 21:13:03 -!- gensym_ [~gensym@85.158.178.76] has quit [Client Quit] 21:13:10 zfx: the point is that POSIX is big (bigger than the CLHS). 21:13:49 didn't spot iolib.syscalls. that will probably do the trick. pity I have to load all the other stuff too. 21:14:07 you don't have to 21:15:32 zfx: and what would be needed is not (only) an implementation of the API, but a _specification_ of it, that could be published as a CDR at least (and perhaps integrated to the POSIX standard). 21:16:16 I get the larger issues, and I don't have the bandwidth to address them, so I will stick with iolib.syscalls. 21:17:00 just figured that I wasn't the first person to deal with it, and so there might be some prior art. 21:17:03 Good decision. 21:17:26 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 21:18:04 zfx: 1- write a lisp program. 2- get rich with it. 3- with the money, finance further Common Lisp language/library/standard developments. 21:18:17 Points 1 and 2 are possible we have a proof by existance: Paul Graham. 21:18:20 that's the plan. 21:18:40 Point 3 is certainly possible too, Shuttleworth did something like that with Ubuntu. 21:19:12 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 21:19:47 timo [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 21:19:48 -!- timo is now known as Guest28587 21:20:03 if I were going to do that, I would find a way to kickstart CLtL3. but anyway, gotta go. thanks for the help. 21:20:42 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:22:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.192.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:22:28 yay! some tests fail because one pathname yields a device :unspecific the other nil, and they are not equal! 21:22:38 -!- tanderson [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:41 Fare: obviously. 21:23:22 Are you using com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.interactive:print-pathname ? 21:24:05 no, it's asdf, I can't use anything :-/ 21:24:12 and com.informatimago.common-lisp.interactive.interactive:compare-pathnames 21:24:19 Well, to help you debug them. 21:24:31 Notice how they're in the interactive package. 21:24:53 the "debug" is to use my own pathname-equal, which is probably quite similar to your 21:25:22 Yes, it's not rocket surgery :-) 21:26:05 tanderson [~thayer@pool-98-118-89-201.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:28 A little know fact: the metaphore mixing in the previous sentence is of a higher level. 21:27:04 -!- zajn [~zajn@adsl-68-127-127-121.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:30 zajn [~zajn@adsl-68-127-127-121.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:30 -!- zacts [~lcc@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:54 at this point I'm just chasing quirks like that before release 21:29:09 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:29:34 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 21:29:52 Fare: I can't reproduce it any more 21:30:06 fe[nl]ix, good. 21:30:09 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 21:30:09 I guess you inadvertently fixed it 21:30:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:30:23 yay for refactoring 21:30:43 just curious 21:30:48 and really would like to know 21:31:00 is there one object model system that's better for one reason or another? 21:31:10 better at what ? 21:31:17 CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-58-198.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:23 for any reason 21:31:48 i was looking at CEDET that comes with a object system that's sort of intuitive 21:31:53 -!- zajn [~zajn@adsl-68-127-127-121.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:58 CLOS seems to be cited a lot 21:32:31 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 21:32:46 hi 21:33:08 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:47 two-: it depends on what you need. The MOP is a very nice example of a clean metaobject protocol. if you want metaprogramming, then it's good. however, what you expect or whish in an OO model is highly dependent on what you want. perhaps you want to limit the features, so you don't need to learn to much, in which case single-inheritance is better than multiple inheritance. 21:34:20 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 ohai madnificent 21:34:45 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 21:34:59 two-: that being said. CLOS, augmented with the MOP, is one of the prettiest systems i've seen. generic functions indicate nicely what you want to say, and lisp's use of symbols eradicate many issues which are common with multiple inheritance. 21:35:03 hello zolk3ri 21:35:52 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:41 two-: eieio is inspired from CLOS, but it's much more limited than CLOS. 21:37:47 ikki [~ikki@187.240.222.65] has joined #lisp 21:37:59 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has left #lisp 21:38:01 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/+2W0X ;; didn't go far 21:38:06 I think desfstruct in elisp is about on par, right? 21:38:13 two-: in CLOS, dispatching can occur on any number of mandatory arguments, not just on a single one. 21:38:14 or even defstruct 21:38:22 two-: also in CLOS, there is multiple inheritance. 21:38:40 two-: and of course, there's the MOP, which is not available either in eieio. 21:38:58 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:39:06 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:44 two-: read all you can about CLOS and MOP, and then, to have fun, read about OpenC++: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/life-saver.html#openc++ 21:39:59 pjb: it seems that everything that says 'we took the good parts of something from lisp' are missing much of it. 21:40:09 :-) 21:40:20 Even when it's from CL to some other lisp :-) 21:41:04 well that implies the untenable assertion that some parts of lisp are not good 21:41:09 two-: notably, the MOP is not specific to CL, it can be derived for other OOP languages. But it's a lot of work. 21:41:20 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:41:25 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abon108.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:41:30 dim: no, just that it's too much work implementing CL in some other programming language. 21:41:54 well it's what implementations do, in part 21:41:56 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abou198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:00 It's too much work doing anything in most other programming languages, that's why they have libraries, library distribution systems, and communities. 21:42:18 AeroNotix [~xeno@abou198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:42:35 I have a very limited experience with CL, but without CL libs I would have noe at all. 21:42:45 s/noe/none/ 21:42:53 what implementations do people tend to use? And what resources do people recommend for a CL beginner? 21:42:56 I hate it when my emacs gets that slow. 21:43:33 practical common lisp 21:43:36 which platform> 21:43:43 which platform are you using? 21:43:47 linux 21:43:54 apt-get install sbcl, then 21:44:00 ok 21:44:06 gnu clisp is basically dead though 21:44:10 right? 21:44:15 wrong, ask pjb 21:44:22 2ok 21:44:30 fsvo 'basically' 21:44:40 sbcl is faster, and has better slime integration 21:45:34 CoverSlide: i vote for practical common lisp too, if you have a bit of background knowledge on programming languages like java or python. 21:45:51 awesome 21:46:29 and find yourself a little project you'd want to implement in lisp too 21:46:40 oh, and first thing, install and setup Quicklisp 21:47:01 zajn [~zajn@adsl-68-127-127-121.dsl.frsn02.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:13 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:47:26 i vote for quicklisp too. quicklisp.org (whatever older resources say, it is the defacto standard way of installing common libraries nowadays) 21:47:56 including Slime in Emacs 21:48:03 -!- Guest23390 is now known as xristos 21:48:07 which is far from obvious when reading the internets 21:48:12 but still is very true 21:48:50 CoverSlide: clisp is good and alive. 21:49:14 CoverSlide: gcl looks dead, but it has just a very slow heart beat. Like one pulse a year. 21:49:46 gcl still compiles Maxima. But perhaps it's the only program it is still used to compile. 21:50:19 CoverSlide: but really, people don't tend to use a single implementation. 21:50:25 -!- nikodem [~nikodem@user-164-126-35-96.play-internet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:38 -!- pancho [~francisco@190.190.114.247] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:50:54 i see 21:51:24 antifuchs: hi, are you involved in mcclim design? 21:51:40 -!- ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:52:04 CoverSlide: if you could, would you have a single car? Or would you have a Porsche for Saturday nights, a Land Rover to go hunting or fishing on Sunday, a BWM coupé to go to work, a Volvo V40 to bring the children to school and so on? 21:53:41 so what do people do with the different implementations? where can i read up on them? 21:55:30 only that with lisp implementations, what you get is a '68 aston martin, a mercedes 190 and a citroen ds. 21:55:40 pjb: no a volvo nooo 21:55:58 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:56:08 I use clisp for my scripts. I use ccl to write GUI programs on MacOSX. I use sbcl to run long-running servers. I use ecl to run code embedded in applications. etc. 21:56:42 *CoverSlide* writes down some notes 21:57:01 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:57:23 H4ns: i like your selection of cars 21:58:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:00:58 pjb: any rumors on when a new version of clisp will be available? 22:02:40 swanstomp [~swanstomp@78-105-198-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:04:58 I'm trying to make a note-taking app, and I want to compile the note format into sexprs and then define a small "run-time" of formatting functions. Once I have the sexprs, I could just load or eval it into my running image. Is this a decent approach? 22:05:39 swanstomp: you could use cl-store, too 22:05:49 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:59 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-866C44C.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 22:05:59 -!- luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 22:06:23 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-85.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:07:16 fxbois [~user@dan75-4-82-239-58-78.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:41 H4ns: or bknr-datastore 22:07:52 H4ns, I don't think I'd need to keep the sexprs around for very long, just to call the run-time function which will generate say LaTeX output, job done. 22:07:57 IIUC 22:08:35 swanstomp: if it's in memory, you can use objects (or if you want to write them and read them again without defining much of anything, structs) 22:08:37 swanstomp: i think i don't understand. 22:08:42 luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:50 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-866C44C.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 22:08:50 -!- luqui [~luqui@174-16-108-225.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:45 OK, thanks for the pointers :) -- I'll see how far I can run with my plan. 22:09:57 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway@118.45.149.239] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:38 -!- fxbois [~user@dan75-4-82-239-58-78.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:11 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 22:13:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-83.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:29 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 22:13:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-27-62.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:16:01 francogrex [~user@109.134.230.155] has joined #lisp 22:24:12 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:24:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.66.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 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[~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:31:07 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:24 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:31:44 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:35:51 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 23:43:12 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.147.17] has joined #lisp 23:43:39 kjbrock` [~user@63.110.51.11] has joined #lisp 23:44:05 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:44:34 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:45:08 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.230.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:46:55 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-14-98.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:23 prxq: when it'll be ready? I have no idea. Better ask the maintainer. Also, it's always possible to provide patches 23:49:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:50:31 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.1.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:51:18 setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.239] has joined #lisp 23:55:41 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:57:01 youlysses [~user@75-132-17-145.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:22 swanstomp: can you tell me more about what your notetaking app does? i have written a small program that takes some data input on the commandline, saves it in a struct and saves that in s-expr format in a file. it's my first time using lisp however, so there may be better ways... 23:58:48 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:10 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:59:20 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp