00:00:48 Process inferior-lisp segmentation fault 00:01:09 is that a bare-repl? 00:01:23 inferior-lisp 00:01:39 so i think that's fairly bare. 00:01:50 i started it with M-x inferior-lisp 00:02:21 can't you run it outside of emacs completely? 00:02:25 yes 00:02:28 i'll try 00:03:15 esaye [~esaye@ti0117a380-dhcp6900.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:05:17 -!- esaye [~esaye@ti0117a380-dhcp6900.bb.online.no] has left #lisp 00:05:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:09 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:55 Segmentation fault 00:06:59 and that's it 00:07:30 what kind of ffi are you running? 00:07:33 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:07:39 can it be sending signals? 00:09:06 stassats: i doubt it. It's bindings to lapack stuff (matlisp) and a fortran code called qpopt. And, as I said, if i load the system when everything was already compiled, it works without a problem. 00:11:58 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:12:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:12:26 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.182] has joined #lisp 00:12:39 so, SBCL *dies* with a segfault? 00:13:54 it's possible ldb dies not capable of coping with it 00:14:35 pkhuong: that's what I am seeing 00:14:46 prxq: can you lisppaste the full output? 00:17:46 pkhuong: the only output that's not application specific is that single line 00:17:58 but I can paste it 00:18:03 i mean the rest 00:20:44 please do. 00:25:07 -!- hiteki [~user@2a01:e35:2ed9:5530:505e:4f09:d949:fe30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:26 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.167.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:26:17 it takes a while 00:26:27 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-80-90.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:26:28 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:30:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134601 ;; as much as the terminal buffer held 00:30:48 i can, however, observe a different behavior if I invoke the function without the (time (prog1 nil ...)) thing 00:31:04 there's no pthread-kill error anymore? 00:31:40 two- [~1@67.171.131.23] has joined #lisp 00:32:13 stassats: that's only in slime. I start the routine, and it hangs. No cpu usage, no output. Then I do C-c C-c, and it drops into ldb in *inferior-lisp* with that error 00:32:24 i'll post that backtrace too 00:32:35 C-c C-c, why didn't you say so?! 00:33:16 i, er, ... 00:33:30 it still segfaults outside of slime 00:33:45 I'm thinking bad pointer or write barrier issue (iirc, matlisp passes pinned vectors directly to LAPACK). Especially if the foreign code spawns threads behind our back. 00:34:05 so, use gdb to see where it segfaults 00:34:33 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 i'm rather sure neither lapack nor qpopt do that 00:35:46 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:37:33 prxq: depends on the BLAS. 00:38:44 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134601#1 00:39:52 pkhuong: matlisp uses its own lapack sources 00:40:05 they are fairly old 00:46:51 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:49:45 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:49 -!- ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:50:19 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 00:52:35 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:52:50 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 00:53:51 timau [~timau@109.227.46.63] has joined #lisp 00:55:21 prxq: lapack isn't blas. 00:56:04 -!- luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:47 pkhuong: well, ok. matlisp gets its blas from matlisp/LAPACK/BLAS/SRC 00:59:16 well, by default. I don't know if its configure does any autodetection. 01:01:05 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:32 none at all. It compiles and links itself an .so from that directory, and then loads it. 01:03:32 rtoym: therep 01:03:39 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:11 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 01:05:37 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 01:05:47 the fun part is that none of this makes any sense. It all has been working for ages, and the changes I made are completely unrelated. And if I run the code in an image that isn't the one that compiled it, it works as it should. 01:07:52 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:08:34 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2033.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:08:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:12:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:13:40 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.18] has joined #lisp 01:16:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:16:44 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-80-90.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:35 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-80-90.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:19:49 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:20:22 -!- timau [~timau@109.227.46.63] has quit [Quit: timau] 01:20:48 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:56 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-164-127-166-166.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:26:06 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-80-90.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:26:57 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-176-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:27:20 -!- zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:27 -!- ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:29:39 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483926B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:13 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B266.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:31:21 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-18-64.bjzv3.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:33:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:26 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-176-155.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:46 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:36 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-131-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:44:31 so, I found the code that destabilizes the image. 01:45:11 before I post it, I would like to point out that I did not write it, and that the person who wrote it is very unlikely to write that now 01:45:19 so here it is. http://paste.lisp.org/+2VUX/2 01:45:48 MrMc [~user@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 01:46:02 none of these variables is used anywhere. Just compiling them causes trouble. 01:46:07 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-110-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 01:46:39 -!- agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:27 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:24 prxq: yeah, I could see badness happening while constant folding this stuff. 01:55:36 good thing there's sb-ext:d-f-p-i and all that (: 01:57:47 prxq: not sure how that interacts with the foreign code, though. 01:58:00 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.6.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:58:59 I see some programs that use #' to prefix lambdas and some that do not, what exactly does that achieve? (the action of using that as a prefix) 01:59:36 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-110-42.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:33 -!- miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:00:33 ebobby: it is syntactic sugar. I think it achieved peace, once uppon a time. 02:00:48 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:01:04 pkhuong: heh 02:01:26 #'symbol is (function symbol) which looks up symbol in the function name space 02:01:58 astertronistic: he's talking about #'(lambda ... vs. (lambda ... 02:02:08 #'(lambda ...) seems excessive to me since the lambda is already a function.. 02:02:09 yeah 02:02:19 I use # 02:02:31 I use #'(lambda .. all the time 02:02:50 I guess it's consistent 02:02:59 miql [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:50 astertronistic: nowadays lambda is a macro expanding to function lambda. it didn't used to be, in which case you'd need the #'. 02:04:07 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:13 pkhuong: I don't know with what it interacts. This was compiling and loading along the foreign code for a few years now without causing any trouble. 02:04:30 Bike: you talk about the 80s :-) 02:04:45 of last century! 02:05:05 yes, but lisp is old and so on and so on 02:05:17 Bike: interesting, thanks 02:05:24 pkhuong: even on 1.1.3 it was working fine until a couple of hours ago 02:07:51 and the changes that triggered this were about exchanging structs for classes. 02:08:06 I see. 02:08:12 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:08:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:09:29 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-197-219.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:11:00 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:45 kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-195-14-220-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:14:25 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-78-0-130.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:15:44 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:16:12 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.99.119] has joined #lisp 02:17:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:17:51 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:18:43 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c3880.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:53 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75de16.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:23:15 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:10 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 02:26:59 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:13 -!- nightfly_ is now known as nightfly 02:30:08 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:55 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 02:32:19 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest47793 02:32:39 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-195-14-220-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:24 -!- MrMc [~user@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:39:21 are allegro licenses per machine? 02:40:03 I'm trying to understand the differences between allegro and lw 02:46:24 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: tps_] 02:52:34 seangrove [~user@66-214-96-210.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:02 cornihilio: the license files are. The actual licensing might support license servers, and the legal part of it is "call us" pricing 02:55:48 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:57:53 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:05 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:30 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:02:09 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 03:02:44 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:27 -!- Tau is now known as UnknownSoldier 03:03:54 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:31 LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:50 ebobby: you still here? 03:10:12 -!- UnknownSoldier is now known as tau 03:10:14 -!- tau is now known as Tau 03:10:59 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:11:21 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:27 prxq_: how about you? 03:13:00 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:13:17 gigamonkey: I am 03:13:37 gigamonkey: what can I do for you? 03:14:15 ebobby: so the lambda macro that was put in to common Lisp (which is what saves you from having to write #'(lambda ) in a value position) was put in pretty much entirely to allow islisp to be implemented directly in Common Lisp. 03:14:30 Islisp was another Lisp being standardized in Europe around the same time as Common Lisp. 03:14:31 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5976470/how-can-i-unintern-a-qualified-method 03:14:41 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:43 so i'm in the inspector, and i see my methods.... how exactly do i do the removal? 03:15:04 -!- Guest47793 [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:07 gigamonkey: by the way, I just watched a video of a talk you gave at Google about Saphir-Worf, funny thing I just gave a talk yesterday along the same lines (yours was much better though) I just had ~25 minutes 03:15:38 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:15:44 That was a fun talk. 03:16:05 mine was called "Linguistic relativity" although I gave it in spanish 03:17:11 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:26 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:17:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:20:22 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 03:21:12 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:22:03 Howdy Lispers!!! 03:24:35 gigamonkey: I guess quoting lambdas with #' is still in use for some sort of *portability* among Lisp's ? (lisp-2 lisps at least) 03:24:49 or just mere... convention perhaps? 03:25:00 i'm not sure what it would be more portable with respect to 03:25:15 Yeah. I think it's just a question of how you want to think about it. 03:25:39 Basically the macro makes one little bit of CL be a Lisp-1 where it would otherwise continue to be a Lisp-2 03:25:58 So I used to always use #'(lambda ) on the grounds of Lisp-2 Pride. 03:26:30 But more recently I've decided that a little sugar can be sweet and it's okay to just use (lambda ...) 03:27:37 you still get to use it when you reference named functions 03:29:25 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-157-110.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:29:37 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-157-110.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 03:30:00 VieiraN [~VieiraN@189-46-157-110.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:30:20 So that's kind of the point, for me anyway. 03:30:50 I think of lambda experissions as a funny kind of function name. (I like to call them eponymous functions but I think I'm the only one) 03:31:15 grr, brainfart 03:31:24 So just like you have to say #'foo to get the function name FOO you have to say #'(lambda ) to get the function named (lambda ...) 03:31:29 how do i find a slot definition given the class and a slot name? 03:34:02 it confused me at first because when you reference name functions it makes sense since you have to diferenciate between namespaces when quoting a symbol, but lambda is a form 03:34:23 as a matter of fact I cannot say I am not still confused 03:34:26 lol 03:34:32 well, (lambda ...) is a function designator just like function names are, like gigamonkey said 03:34:51 But a lambda form is also the name of a function because you can do ((lambda (x) (+ x 10)) 20) 03:35:08 I.e. As the CAR of a list it's considered the "name" of a function. 03:35:20 And outside of the CAR of a list you need to use #' 03:35:24 So it's consistent. 03:35:48 (Which you can also see in that the lambda macro is just a macro--it's a bit of sugar an top of the rest of the language. 03:35:49 ah I see what you see 03:36:00 what you mean* 03:36:46 merk_ [~merk@109.227.46.63] has joined #lisp 03:38:02 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:38:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:00 the way I pictured it in my mind at first is that is a literal value that needs quoting (like lists) and just like you use (quote) for regular values you use (function) for function values. 03:43:54 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 03:54:31 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:44 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 03:58:26 Jonathan_ [~Jontonsou@c-98-206-136-238.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:04 hey I'm just starting out in cl and I can't seem to find what an "&" means in a the arguments list. Is it similar to c? 03:59:19 it doesn't mean aything, it's part of the symbol name. 03:59:39 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:51 Bike: thanks. what about optional params? 04:00:03 What about them? 04:00:14 Bike: i can't seem to find the notation for them either 0:) 04:00:44 -!- merk_ [~merk@109.227.46.63] has quit [Quit: merk_] 04:00:48 (lambda (a &optional b (c 0)) ...) has one required parameter a, one optional parameter b that defaults to NIL, and one optional parameter c that defaults to 0 04:01:40 ah i c thats exactly why i was confused 04:02:17 &optional b 04:02:46 so this (defun multi-fetch (pattern &optional (tre *tre*) &aux bindings unifiers) 04:03:08 one required, one optional, two auxilary 04:03:10 means pattern is an input. there is an optional tre that defaults to the defvar 04:03:26 kk thanks a ton 04:03:47 i can't seem to find any good centralized documentation :/ 04:03:58 clhs 04:03:59 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:29 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.99.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:41 kk thnx 04:05:02 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:06:39 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has left #lisp 04:06:46 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 04:13:19 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:16:57 frost_ [~frost@31.45.159.123] has joined #lisp 04:17:08 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 04:19:11 -!- zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:59 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:29 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:25:47 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:26:11 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest9960 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#lisp 05:48:44 nimitz [~ztimin@modemcable067.221-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:52:22 werwerwer [~1@158.181.220.211] has joined #lisp 05:59:16 agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-38-25.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 06:03:19 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.11] has joined #lisp 06:05:59 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.249] has joined #lisp 06:12:04 -!- agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:12:12 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:14:53 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has joined #lisp 06:15:06 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:56 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 06:18:03 duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:18:09 hi everyone 06:18:28 I wanted to know if it is common to use one asd file for a project 06:18:52 or if it is best to use multiple asd files for multiple components 06:19:13 -!- weichen [~user@114.106.52.103] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:19:17 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:19:34 i have been looking at the way that cl ironclad is organised 06:19:44 and I notice that there is one asd file only 06:19:44 dmiles [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:27 so it seems that it would be best to use a single asd file but I would like to know what #lisp thinks 06:20:51 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:18 -!- nimitz [~ztimin@modemcable067.221-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 06:22:05 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.99.119] has joined #lisp 06:24:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:26:02 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:26:30 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 06:29:24 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:41 -!- alpha123 [~turkchess@71-212-143-72.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: alpha123] 06:36:56 -!- Tau [~Euler@186.194.51.29] has quit [Quit: someone once asked me to describe life, i thought for a moment then i answered: for me it is just a long way to inexistence.] 06:38:27 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:41 -!- svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:36 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44:49 -!- jeti`` [~user@p54A1E50F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:46:14 duko, what every works and scales reasonably has been my philosophy, but I guess if the amount of files became large it would make sense to separate the project into components 06:46:28 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[~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:29:54 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:34 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-197-219.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:03 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:40 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.99.119] has left #lisp 08:38:27 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:39:39 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:41:11 rus [~user@27-33-84-138.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:46:57 Fixed my ASDF issues with CLISP. Now passes tests on at least SBCL, CCL, CLISP, ALLEGRO, LISPWORKS, ECL. 08:50:22 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:50:26 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 08:50:38 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:52:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:52:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:55:00 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has joined #lisp 08:58:53 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 09:01:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:06:58 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 09:07:12 pnpuff [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:07:43 -!- rus [~user@27-33-84-138.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:08:02 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:08:47 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.180.94] has joined #lisp 09:13:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:16:26 You don't write #(vector 1 2 3) to get a vector, so DO NOT write #'(lambda () 1) to get a function. 09:16:43 You write either #(1 2 3), or (vector 1 2 3). 09:18:20 -!- elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18:59 elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 09:19:28 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:19:51 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-000-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:55 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:38 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:20:46 Yep, the CLHS is only the third it on google common lisp. Nobody will ever find it! 09:20:53 s/it/hit/ 09:21:16 I think someone's been taking his grumpy pill again. 09:21:19 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:21:46 Zhivago: yep :-) 09:22:06 You should try changing to a suppository. 09:22:45 minion: memo for duko: read http://miller.emu.id.au/pmiller/books/rmch/ then conclude that a asd file covering the whole project is better than a asd file that depends on other asd files for subprojects. ( 09:22:45 Remembered. I'll tell duko when he/she/it next speaks. 09:22:59 And the same goes for XCode projects! 09:23:05 there is still something funky in CLISP when I load asdf on top of asdf.... 09:23:34 What about (delete-package :asdf) (load "new-asdf.lisp") ? 09:23:46 a bit brutish 09:24:01 -!- forrest__ [~forrest@cpe-76-187-13-203.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: forrest__] 09:24:03 I've thought about it, though 09:24:08 + check a few special variables listing hooks for things like require and libraries. 09:24:43 the symptom is that the slot reader COMPONENT-NAME is hosed after upgrade -- maybe due to some symbol frobbing? 09:24:55 yeah, I added such variables. 09:24:59 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25:30 though no one is using them right now -- but in the future that's how SBCL &co might register their magic systems. 09:25:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:26:12 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:26:46 ahem... how do I undefine a class? 09:27:27 *Fare* added a lot of runtime support to ASDF lately... almost half of ASDF is now runtime support 09:27:30 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-202-180.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:27:40 francogrex [~user@109.134.227.146] has joined #lisp 09:27:50 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 09:27:56 now that asdf is divided into packages, I'm not afraid of adding batteries. 09:28:08 also available as a separate package :asdf/driver 09:28:51 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:29:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:30:08 Fare: No, I mean clisp has: 09:30:09 ;; custom:*lib-directory* used by require to load dynmods 09:30:09 ;; custom:*user-lib-directory* used by require to load dynmods -- user customization. 09:30:09 09:30:20 oh... maybe I just need to fmakunbound all the gfs at upgrade time? 09:30:59 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:31:18 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-130-197.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:31:25 wait, I'm already doing that for component-name and that didn't help 09:31:37 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:32:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 09:33:21 *** - NO-APPLICABLE-METHOD: When calling # ... 09:33:21 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:23 grrr 09:33:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:44 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:34:19 Well, it seems to be only passive, one cannot configure a function to map require to asdf or quicklisp in clisp it seems (unless redefining cl:require). 09:34:42 uh? 09:35:02 (map () 'require '(foo bar)) does not work? 09:35:27 Hmmm. The CLHS for BYTE confused me for a bit in its layout. One should write "2^(position + size - 1)" rather than "2^position + size - 1". 09:35:29 oh, you mean, hooking asdf:require-system into REQUIRE ? 09:35:32 gigamonkey: hi 09:35:33 map REQUIRE => ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM? 09:35:45 REQUIRE-SYSTEM actually 09:35:54 gigamonkey: I'm back 09:36:00 these days it force-not's the already-loaded systems. 09:36:11 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 09:38:24 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has left #lisp 09:38:41 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-102-242.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:40:29 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:41:42 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has joined #lisp 09:45:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:46:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:46:45 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:47:35 Fare: still no dice with relative-pathname, i can't see how come that it doesn't work for me on any lisps i try and yet it works for you 09:48:06 does anyone know a way to query sbcl for the dynamic space (heap) available? I could not find it in the manual. 09:48:53 (sb-ext:dynamic-space-size) 09:49:01 stassats: thanks 09:49:14 Fare: I mean, something like asdf:*central-registry*, but for require. 09:49:45 stassats: it's there under introspection and tuning 09:50:06 Yes, probably asdf:require-system, I don't have it in my version of asdf. 09:50:16 let me send you my swank-asdf.lisp, in case that helps 09:50:22 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:01 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 09:52:03 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:52:50 Fare: it doesn't work with or without slime 09:53:36 can you send an error log? 09:53:40 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:59:10 does 2>&1 work under Windows? 09:59:36 should I care? 10:00:26 Not for much longer, with the way windows 8 is going. 10:01:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:01:57 pjb: what would you say, does what taoufik does qualify as "research" or as "madness"? 10:02:28 pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:03:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:05:29 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:35 kilon_alios [~kilon@188.4.18.171.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:06:48 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:07:35 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:09:32 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 10:09:38 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:10:02 it used to be that defconstant vs defparameter was mostly a matter of semantics, and not of practical advantage. Is that still the case? 10:11:37 apparently, I might be needing something more potent than fmakunbound to get rid of old methods in CLISP 10:12:01 see what I have done: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134607 10:13:14 H4ns: madness. 10:13:57 It's a classic lisp newbie. Just a phase. He'll get over it hopefully, just as we did. 10:15:42 nikodem [~mikey@user-46-112-14-36.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:18:08 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:18:21 pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:19:34 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Client Quit] 10:19:48 pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:20:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:22:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:23:11 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Client Quit] 10:24:13 Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has joined #lisp 10:24:31 pjb: i have no hope for him. it has been at least five years now. 10:25:20 H4ns: is that a c.l.l. guy 10:25:24 ? 10:25:43 prxq: no, it's been on openmcl-devel 10:25:57 Well that's a problem. He uses implementation specific mail-list to ask generic CL questions. 10:26:57 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:27:07 prxq: it is wrong on multiple levels :) 10:27:21 -!- Kenjin is now known as Guest20306 10:27:50 it's here, for those who are bored: http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2013-January/014003.html 10:28:26 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has joined #lisp 10:29:41 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:32 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:32:47 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 10:33:01 Fiora [~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 10:33:04 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@188.4.18.171.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:33:50 snearch [~snearch@f053015186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:27 pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:34:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:48 http://clozure.com/pipermail/openmcl-devel/2013-January/014019.html ;; yuk 10:35:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b85.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:27 is there a git mirror for slime? 10:35:34 -!- Guest20306 [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [] 10:36:41 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:36:44 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:37:49 - 10:37:57 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 10:38:10 pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:39:49 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 10:42:30 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 10:42:38 Even I can at least indent better 10:43:27 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 10:43:27 pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 10:43:35 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 10:45:48 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.133.111] has joined #lisp 10:47:40 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 10:59:24 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 10:59:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:01:10 ahem. More pathname woes. 11:01:21 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:01:39 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 11:04:33 -!- sirmacik is now known as czarnobrody 11:04:45 -!- czarnobrody is now known as sirmacik 11:05:02 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:06:27 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:53 Fare: there's no error log, just the symbols are not equal 11:09:32 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 11:09:38 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 11:09:43 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:09:48 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b85.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:10:29 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:50 sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has joined #lisp 11:10:50 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has quit [Changing host] 11:10:50 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 11:13:19 which symbols? on which implementation(s) 11:13:25 which version? 11:15:17 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:16:04 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-18-64.bjzv3.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 11:16:29 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-18-64.bjzv3.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:18:53 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:42 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:21:43 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 11:21:43 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 11:21:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:22:49 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:23:02 -!- hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:17 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 11:27:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:27:30 iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has joined #lisp 11:31:16 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:33 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:34:33 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-041.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: this computer sucks] 11:35:50 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:35:53 latest, any implementation 11:36:17 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:36:30 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:38:52 hi fe[nl]ix 11:40:54 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42:21 minion: memo for hydan: https://github.com/antifuchs/slime 11:42:21 Remembered. I'll tell hydan when he/she/it next speaks. 11:44:38 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:48:49 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:49:40 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:54:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.227.146] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:02:36 -!- reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-36-25.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:03:02 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:05:02 lukas__ [~lukas@194.228.13.47] has joined #lisp 12:05:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08:03 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:04 agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:43 weird 12:14:29 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:17:49 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:27 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 12:21:40 (ql:quickload :alexandria) tries to load an old version, instead of the current one. Why would that be? I just did a quicklisp update and it still tries the old one. 12:22:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:23:33 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:25:54 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-31-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27:39 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:28:32 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 12:28:39 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:29:11 zardoz8 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 12:29:36 pjb: maybe you have an old version accessible via *central-registy* 12:32:12 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:45 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has joined #lisp 12:33:17 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.123.57.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:42 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:41 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 12:36:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.7] has joined #lisp 12:36:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.3.7] has quit [Changing host] 12:36:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:37:41 -!- zardoz8 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 12:38:56 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 12:39:11 Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has joined #lisp 12:42:59 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:39 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:03 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 prxq: well, it tries to load it from ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/alexandria-${some_older_version}-git 12:44:20 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:04 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:45:14 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF50394.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:57 stassats: remind me your ABT config? 12:46:20 there is breakage in output-translations at least on CLISP 12:46:51 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:48:03 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF506E2.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:49:57 Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has joined #lisp 12:53:16 holzplatten [~GNUdiSt@175.Red-81-43-132.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:27 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 12:58:47 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.58.77.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:36 Saturn_ [~rose@111.59.178.68] has joined #lisp 13:03:01 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:15 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:24 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@109.120.29.246] has joined #lisp 13:05:46 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07:26 AeroNotix [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:08:32 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.43.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:11:19 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 13:13:28 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:11 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.59.178.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:18:37 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:18:41 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:24:18 poglesbyg [~poglesbyg@80.202.83.110] has joined #lisp 13:26:24 Saturn_ [~rose@111.59.178.68] has joined #lisp 13:27:46 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 13:32:54 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:35:24 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:43 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:36:47 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-120-147-18-64.bjzv3.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 13:37:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:37:36 hitecnologys2 [~hitecnolo@109.120.28.42] has joined #lisp 13:38:04 -!- poglesbyg [~poglesbyg@80.202.83.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:07 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:48 hitecnologys3 [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.58] has joined #lisp 13:41:10 -!- hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@109.120.29.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:42:34 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:42:51 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 13:44:09 -!- hitecnologys2 [~hitecnolo@109.120.28.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:45:01 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 13:50:17 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:34 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 13:51:12 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.59.178.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:52:02 Saturn_ [~rose@111.12.30.35] has joined #lisp 13:53:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-110-57.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:54:24 -!- Saturn_ [~rose@111.12.30.35] has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:06 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:56 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:24 hi Blkt :) 14:02:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A2AC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:11:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-110-57.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 14:13:53 govinda_ [~govinda@host188.181-10-2.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:14:10 Fare: (asdf:enable-asdf-binary-locations-compatibility :centralize-lisp-binaries t :default-toplevel-directory *fasl-dir*) 14:14:40 how does one become a lisp hacker? 14:14:57 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-173-228-245-30.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:11 One gets some lisp and hacks it. 14:15:37 where can this lisp thing be obtained? 14:15:58 which platform/OS are you using? 14:16:01 minion: tell govinda_ about pcl 14:16:01 govinda_: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 14:16:13 ^ good book for someone who already knows how to program 14:16:22 as for implementations, depends on your OS/platform 14:16:47 Is lisp suitable to implement a neural network? 14:17:08 see http://cliki.net/Common%20Lisp%20implementation for picking a lisp to play with 14:17:29 govinda_: neural networks, web servers, pde solvers, ... 14:17:32 i navigated into the hiperlink 14:17:40 y* 14:18:26 Does lisp waste system resources? 14:18:42 and what's the value of fasl-dir? 14:18:48 only when you ask it to, I guess, govinda_ 14:19:02 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 dim: how many hours should one invest to do something useful with the lisp? 14:20:19 well, you seem to have a delimited project to implement 14:20:31 have at it, when you're bored, look what you've done and decide if you want to continue 14:22:39 I thank you for your assistance. I will contact you if a further uncertainty develops. 14:23:40 minion: I aquired a copy of the indicated text. Information absorption is taking place. 14:23:41 i don't agree - you aquired a copy of the indicated text information absorption isn't taking place 14:24:01 minion is a bot 14:24:03 minion: you seem to not be human. 14:24:03 what's up? 14:24:17 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:24:51 minion 14:25:10 minion: is your pattern evident? 14:25:10 yes 14:25:27 minion: can you explain that? 14:25:28 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 14:26:20 minion: your creator haves a sense of humour. 14:26:20 what's up? 14:27:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:27:24 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:27:35 minion: help! 14:27:35 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 14:27:58 oh, disappointer. I suggest writing ":help!" in vim :-) 14:28:07 *disappointed 14:29:26 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:07 -!- lukas__ [~lukas@194.228.13.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:09 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:18 Fare: would it matter? 14:32:27 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-000-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:34:00 ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:25 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:36 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:42 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:12 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:39:17 stassats, it might 14:39:33 i.e. is it a string, a wild pathname, etc. 14:40:26 and can you send me a backtrace, that I may see *where* it fails? 14:40:40 pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:40:45 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:41:08 -!- hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:10 pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:42:03 -!- govinda_ [~govinda@host188.181-10-2.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:43:12 there's no failure, i repeat 14:43:46 and it's a string 14:44:06 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:44:43 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:45:56 my problem is that (eq 'asdf/interface::relative-pathname 'asdf/component::relative-pathname) is nil, regardless of any configurations 14:49:07 hitecnologys4 [~hitecnolo@176.62.111.99] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:29 quick question, if i have class and on it defined method my-method ... having instance my-object of class how do i pass my-method of that instance as an argument to another function? ... #'(my-method my-object) doesnt seem to work :) 14:50:38 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:50:42 Odyessus [~odyessus@89.144.192.239] has joined #lisp 14:51:16 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.230.216] has joined #lisp 14:51:36 or maybe: #'(#'my-method my-object)? 14:51:40 -!- milosn_ is now known as milosn 14:51:45 *milosn* new to lisp 14:51:50 -!- hitecnologys3 [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:35 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:52:50 pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 14:53:16 milosn: a method belongs to a generic-function, a generic-function is just like regular function. 14:53:29 so it's just #'my-method 14:54:00 -!- hitecnologys4 [~hitecnolo@176.62.111.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:55:02 (defmethod foo ) defines a method on a generic-function that is bound to the symbol-function slot of the symbol FOO. (The generic function is implicitly created by defmethod if it does not already exist.) 14:55:16 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 14:55:51 but dont i need somehow pass in the instance of the object on which that function would be called? 14:55:59 let me try what you are saying 14:57:02 you seem to be trying to impose some notions of some other language 14:57:20 the method belongs to the generic-function. The method does not belong to a class or an object 14:57:48 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:58:00 milosn: if you want to fix the first argument of a function, you can do something like (lambda (&rest arguments) (apply #'method object arguments)) 14:58:34 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:40 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@89.144.192.239] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:58:45 If you don't, just pass the generic function around. 14:59:01 http://pastie.org/5678506 14:59:27 it asks for another argument, i assume that should be the instance of my class 14:59:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.14] has joined #lisp 14:59:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.11.14] has quit [Changing host] 14:59:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:59:35 hmm this is complicated 14:59:36 :) 15:00:06 yes, you have to pass all the arguments, as with any other function. 15:00:11 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 15:00:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.180.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:01:06 most people find it easier to test things out in the REPL, or with C-x C-e/C-c C-c in a SLIME buffer. 15:01:41 C-M-x + REPL is my current favourite 15:02:50 -!- ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:11 ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:44 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:05:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:30 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192239.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 -!- sawgij [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:07:33 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:07:47 pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:08:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:08:12 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has joined #lisp 15:10:23 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:10:33 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 15:13:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:15:17 zolk3ri: Hello. 15:16:16 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-015-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:23 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192239.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:17:53 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192239.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 15:20:11 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:15 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:19 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:23 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192239.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 15:29:56 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:30:04 lukas__ [~lukas@194.228.13.186] has joined #lisp 15:30:50 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:31:50 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.129] has joined #lisp 15:32:50 Fare: can you give me an md5 of your asdf.lisp? 15:34:35 Is there a tidy way to make a function that either takes a variable # of arguments using &rest arg, or a single list argument. Or is it just a case of dispatching on the length of the &rest parameter? 15:35:30 what if you would to pass a list as a single argument? 15:35:33 would want 15:36:58 stassats, I prefer typing (foo a b c d ..._) in at the repl instead of (foo '(a b c d ...)), but in the code, it's more convenient to pass a list, rather than splicing it. 15:37:29 (apply #'foo list) 15:37:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:39:52 Meh, not really what I was looking for, to lazy to type apply #'foo all the time. 15:40:17 (function foo) :) 15:40:36 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 15:40:52 :) -- I'll just stick with splicing for now, until I don't need to use these functions so much from the REPL. I'll make some wrappers later I guess. 15:44:15 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 15:45:11 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:49:28 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.10.139] has joined #lisp 15:51:54 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:44 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192239.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:04 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 15:56:17 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@shutdown.illusi0n.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:56:30 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.10.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:42 n0vember [~n0vember@shutdown.illusi0n.org] has joined #lisp 15:56:57 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.10.139] has joined #lisp 15:58:25 Odyessus_ [~odyessus@089144192144.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:00:06 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192239.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:00:06 -!- Odyessus_ is now known as Odyessus 16:00:58 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:01:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:02:26 stassats, I just pushed a new asdf.lisp 16:02:43 eedb349a21c9ee04f3f972e96b761ce2 build/asdf.lisp 16:03:06 pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:03:15 stassats, is that SBCL? 16:03:17 the same, now testing eq 16:03:25 Fare: it's any implementation 16:03:36 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192144.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:04:01 still NIL 16:04:12 does not compute. It works for me, including on an old ubuntu clisp that has an antique asdf wired in by c-l-c 16:04:44 Fare, stassats: what's wrong the use of ASDF I make in iolib ? I couldn't follow your discussion yesterday 16:05:10 still NIL, with 2.26.85? 16:05:12 fe[nl]ix: i sent you a pull-request with one fix 16:05:17 fe[nl]ix, did it diverge from upstream? 16:05:27 Fare: yes, md5 are the same 16:05:52 do you have funky stuff in your .sbclrc? do you run with swank? c-l-c? quicklisp? 16:05:54 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:06 Fare: bare implementations 16:06:08 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:10 stassats: I somehow missed that 16:06:43 fe[nl]ix: the other problem is with ecl, iolib-grovel and output-files being x.o and x.fas, and iolib-grovel choosing the wrong one 16:06:46 Fare: I don't understand the question, I'm the "upstream" 16:06:46 here I pass tests on all implementations I try 16:06:48 i have no solution for this 16:06:50 -!- n0vember [~n0vember@shutdown.illusi0n.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:06:50 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:07:20 fe[nl]ix: it's on github 16:07:30 I saw it now 16:07:37 yes, I moved x.fas first so the loaders can all use the first output-file, which simplifies many extensions, too 16:07:47 sorry 16:09:14 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:09:15 passes tests for me on SBCL, CCL, CLISP, Allegro, LispWorks, ECL. I haven't done a full run w/ ABCL because it's so slow, but it looks fine 16:09:29 10 passing and 31 failing on SBCL 16:10:43 TEST ABORTED: EXPORT SYSTEM-SOURCE-REGISTRY-DIRECTORY causes name-conflicts in # between the following symbols: ASDF::SYSTEM-SOURCE-REGISTRY-DIRECTORY, ASDF/SOURCE-REGISTRY:SYSTEM-SOURCE-REGISTRY-DIRECTORY 16:10:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11:20 and lots of those 16:11:26 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:27 on CCL, only one test fails 16:11:56 clhs concatenate 16:11:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_concat.htm 16:11:58 this one: TEST ABORTED: Component "static-and-serial" not found 16:12:07 do you have another asdf somewhere interfering somehow? Hidden in your *central-registry* or source-registry? 16:12:16 no 16:12:35 well, there's the one that comes with asdf, but i don't load it 16:12:40 with sbcl 16:12:47 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.133.111] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 16:13:39 i'll move contrib/ directory away, let's see 16:14:24 now it's 40 passing and 1 failing on SBCL too, but that has no impact on the EQ test 16:14:52 The following paths are ignored by one of your .gitignore files: 16:14:52 test 16:15:02 what the hell? No, it's not! 16:15:31 are there some global settings preventing some of my test files from being committed??? 16:15:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-255-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:17:22 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:29 stassats: you actually got iolib working on ABCL ? 16:17:36 yep 16:17:56 impressive 16:17:56 well, my tests weren't very rigorous 16:18:24 does iolib have tests? 16:18:31 oh, it was my ???? in gitignore 16:18:36 Yinne [~Daisy@109.58.195.16.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 16:18:49 so new test stuff wasn't being committed. Duh. 16:19:11 stassats: (asdf:test-system :iolib) 16:19:30 seangrove [~user@66-214-96-210.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:33 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 16:19:37 but that doesn't explain any of the failures of stassats 16:19:50 stassats: only TIMEOUT.4 is expected to fail 16:20:50 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:20:54 where do you put your ABL configuration? 16:20:57 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-130-80.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:20:58 Component "iolib-tests" not found, is it external? 16:21:05 Fare: i don't load it for testing 16:21:29 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:42 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:43 stassats: no, it's in tests/ 16:21:52 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:55 ok 16:22:10 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has joined #lisp 16:22:12 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:22:45 I can't understand why it works for me and fails so bad for you. 16:23:44 when you query (asdf:asdf-version) what does it say? What about asdf/upgrade::*upgraded-p* ? 16:23:49 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has left #lisp 16:23:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:24:36 2.26.85, NIL 16:24:42 -!- Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmnjlkjaohlwgeju] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:55 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has joined #lisp 16:25:05 Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:25:13 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:25:35 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has joined #lisp 16:25:36 and by the time it screws up? 16:26:05 well, it screws up right of the but, the EQty thing 16:26:12 bat 16:26:17 -!- Yinne [~Daisy@109.58.195.16.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:27:17 ok, I want a second opinion. Which of us is crazier? 16:27:41 minion: chant 16:27:41 MORE CONVENIENT 16:27:45 attila_lendvai, can you try the latest asdf and see whether it fails horribly for you, or just works? 16:27:55 fe[nl]ix? madnificent? 16:28:09 sure 16:28:14 just tell me what I have to do 16:28:15 Fare: i was hoping minion would give you your second opinion 16:28:39 rikonor [~rikonor@bzq-84-108-66-52.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:42 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002c3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:47 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:53 Fare: oh, you weren't referring to testing :) 16:28:59 just git clone git://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git 16:28:59 insanity is uncountable 16:29:17 then try to use that instead of your usual 16:29:26 you can switch to the release branch to get 2.26 16:29:33 don't forget to run make! 16:29:50 yeah, run make to create build/asdf.lisp 16:29:59 now i get (IOLIB.SOCKETS:LOOKUP-HOSTNAME "deneb.cddr.org"), The variable IOLIB.SOCKETS::+DEFAULT-INET-ADDRESS-FAMILY+ is unbound, i guess it's compiled before it becomes a constant 16:30:09 (it's bound if i try C-x C-e 16:30:22 make test is a good start assuming you have sbcl installed 16:30:34 otherwise, make test lisp=ccl 16:30:40 symbol-macro, even 16:31:14 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:19 -!- rikonor [~rikonor@bzq-84-108-66-52.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:53 where's asdf-encodings ? 16:32:02 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:17 in its own repo 16:32:45 asdf-encodings ssh://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/git/asdf-encodings.git 16:33:00 git clone git://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git 16:33:24 I'm considering moving it to the asdf.git -- maybe you have opinions either way 16:34:30 stassats, if you trace LOAD and COMPILE-FILE, does anything get in the way of ASDF? 16:34:31 Gurragchaa [uid6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xyqhwidfvoqwimew] has joined #lisp 16:34:55 stassats, what if you (asdf/package:package-definition-form :asdf) ? 16:35:10 does it tell us anything interesting? 16:35:47 I also refrained from using lots of dependencies for the test suite so far... but maybe I shouldn't. 16:35:57 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134610 16:36:33 only asdf.lisp is LOADed 16:37:32 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.6.31] has joined #lisp 16:37:53 stassats: try pulling now 16:38:34 pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:39:21 Fare: all tests pass 16:39:23 looks good 16:39:34 fe[nl]ix, thanks a lot. 16:39:54 the only test fails because of "Component "static-and-serial" not found" 16:39:58 stassats, is it failing while loading the footer? 16:40:11 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:11 what failing? 16:40:17 stassats, update, I fixed that missing file 16:40:21 ah, ok 16:40:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:14 -!- Urfin [~user@37.142.5.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:28 fe[nl]ix: still the same thing 16:41:37 interestingly, I also fail the encodings test on ABCL - can't convince it to use latin-2 16:42:09 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 16:44:35 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:52 stassats, so, make test works for you? 16:46:09 stassats: then I think it's a bug in ABCL 16:46:27 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 16:46:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 16:46:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:46:53 probably 16:46:55 clhs defclass 16:46:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defcla.htm 16:47:01 Fare: yes it does 16:47:15 the defclass form tries to evaluate the default-initargs 16:47:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:47:30 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.180.94] has joined #lisp 16:48:19 "The default initial value form is evaluated each time it is used", not when the defclass form is evaluated 16:48:43 that's my guess 16:49:43 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:54 prxq: ping 16:50:37 OK, so make test works -- that's a good data point 16:50:40 well, when i do a separate test-case, everything is fine 16:51:32 but? 16:51:41 Fare: that's not for asdf 16:52:07 I don't understand. 16:52:21 Fare: it was addressed to fe[nl]ix 16:52:46 oh, ok 16:53:03 so make test fails for you 16:53:11 no, that was for you! 16:53:30 make test succeeds, but EQ still fails 16:53:59 when does it fail? 16:54:14 when i just load asdf.lisp and run it 16:54:30 it doesn't fail, it returns NIL 16:54:57 vlion [~vlion@66-87-74-74.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:03 Tau [~Euler@186.194.53.225] has joined #lisp 16:55:20 oh, so I forgot an export 16:55:33 fe[nl]ix: so, that's because of +DEFAULT-INET-ADDRESS-FAMILY+ inside make-socket, when i C-c C-c it works 16:55:36 I wonder how come that doesn't affect me. 16:55:42 fe[nl]ix: i blame ASDF, what else! 16:56:26 Fare: can you take a look at the .asd files in iolib and tell me if there's any way to modernize them ? 16:56:57 stassats: Looking for me? 16:56:58 probably is 16:56:59 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:12 I'll assume you want compatibility with quicklisp, i.e. 2.26. 16:57:21 rtoym: i sent a series patch to series-users 16:57:33 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:57:34 (for ABCL) 16:57:57 stassats: Oh, ok. Let me take a look. 16:57:57 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-82-146.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:21 Fare: yes, but if 2.27 has more applicable features I'm interested too 16:58:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:11 francogrex [~user@109.134.227.146] has joined #lisp 16:59:14 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:00:22 it has many more applicable features, but it's not going to be released for at least one or two weeks -- if everything goes well 17:00:39 no, make-socket is compiled after base-socket, so ASDF is not to blame 17:01:04 Hi there: Is this legal Common Lisp syntax - I found it in the ECL source code: (funcall (function (setf sixth)) XXX ...) 17:01:23 it is 17:01:40 I'm asking because I'm writing a Common Lisp compiler and I thought that the arguments to the FUNCTION special operator could only be a symbol or a LAMBDA expression. 17:01:47 a bit silly, though (setf (sixth XXX) ...) would work better 17:02:27 fe[nl]ix: pong 17:02:41 fe[nl]ix, what's the canonical source for iolib these days? 17:02:42 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:03:01 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:02 git://github.com/sionescu/iolib.git ? 17:03:18 yes 17:03:23 prxq: see https://github.com/sionescu/iolib/blob/master/src/sockets/base-sockets.lisp#L141 17:03:35 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:03:50 stassats: In the CLHS it says (regarding Special Operator FUNCTION): If name is a lambda expression, then a lexical closure is returned. In situations where a closure over the same set of bindings might be produced more than once, the various resulting closures might or might not be eq. 17:03:55 -!- holzplatten [~GNUdiSt@175.Red-81-43-132.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:04 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:14 drmeister: that's not relevant to the original question 17:04:14 prxq: I think ABCL may be eagerly evaluating the initial value form in the defclass for internet-socket 17:04:31 fe[nl]ix: it's not 17:04:36 stassats: Is it non-standard syntax? 17:04:44 drmeister: it is standard 17:05:01 fe[nl]ix: the error comes from make-socket 17:05:31 from make-socket itself 17:05:37 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:40 and i can't reproduce it 17:05:42 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:06:06 prxq: nevermind, sorry 17:06:08 fe[nl]ix: it may be that you wanted to tell that to someone else. 17:06:26 your (merge-pathnames "../version.lisp-expr" (or *compile-file-pathname* *load-truename*)) should be just (asdf::subpathname *load-truename* "../version.lisp-expr") 17:06:38 fe[nl]ix: np 17:06:49 why ::? 17:07:14 Fare: how about adding augmenting the syntax for :version ? 17:07:22 fe[nl]ix, apart from trivial simplifications like that, what do you want me to look at more specifically? 17:07:34 fe[nl]ix, sure, but not backward compatible. 17:07:40 :version (:read-file "../version.lisp-expr") 17:07:41 How should it be? 17:08:21 reading the file line? the object string in the file? 17:08:53 I suppose I could do that. 17:08:56 Just for version? 17:08:58 open the file and read the first form 17:09:07 I have a function for that in 2.27 17:09:13 which should be whatever :version expects, in this case a string 17:09:16 (read-first-file-form foo) 17:09:37 and (safe-read-first-file-form path) 17:10:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:06 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:10:11 and no error from when make-socket is being compiled 17:10:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:10:28 Fare: what do you mean by "backward compatible" ? it's usually meant as "everything that used to work still works", and adding new features satisfies that 17:11:14 Fare: just wanted to know if there's anything that strikes you as no longer necessary or doable better with the newer ASDF 17:11:44 fe[nl]ix: by the way, couldn't you put gray stream loading just into a file, without those perform methods? 17:12:29 stassats: I could but I'd rather not to. everything that pertains to dependencies should be done by ASDF 17:12:58 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:13:02 maybe a REQUIRE dependency could be a useful new feature 17:13:48 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 17:13:51 well, it would be ok if asdf performed such actions in a sane way, yes 17:14:27 but i found the :perform method triggering to be inconsistent across implementations 17:14:33 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:33 Fare: and :read-file should probably use safe-read-first-file-form unconditionally 17:14:50 the patch i sent you seems to be the only viable way to do it 17:15:09 i.e., put it into something on which a component depends 17:15:37 I pushed it already 17:15:47 yeah, i know 17:16:14 just that i don't like it 17:16:30 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:16:32 ok, I have a few spare minutes so I'll add those two features myself 17:17:34 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:46 ok, so I propose the syntax (:read-file-form "../version.lisp-expr") -- is that OK with you? 17:18:15 yes 17:18:59 fe[nl]ix, I mean, in the .asd files and base/asdf.lisp ? 17:19:27 I just merged into asdf the stuff I had put in xcvb-driver and used at ITA for years for condition control 17:20:23 Fare: yes, in those files 17:20:29 your with-muffled-output will be more flexibly done with asdf/driver:with-controlled-compiler-conditions 17:20:38 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:20:43 isn't copy-readtable a bit expensive? 17:21:35 you can readily use the :around-compile hook -- it's working well in 2.23 17:21:44 to replace your perform around methods 17:22:16 -!- ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:23 bam, got it, it's because of a compiler-macro 17:22:30 you don't need those operation-done-p methods 17:23:22 and in 2.27 I'd have methods on component-depends-on rather than perform for those things -- or simply an in-order-to spec in the defsystem. 17:24:35 funcall (find-symbol ... can be (asdf/driver:symbol-call 17:24:56 I suppose I should have a nickname for that. 17:25:01 ad? sf? gh? 17:25:13 forrest__ [~forrest@cpe-76-187-13-203.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:53 :D 17:26:09 no, the colon is on the wrong side, there 17:26:30 let's homestead this package name space! 17:27:18 or what that the designator? 17:27:29 d:symbol-call works for me. 17:27:29 I could really do with a better interface for the clhs. Comments? 17:27:42 you probably could 17:27:46 browndawg: feel free to write one 17:27:50 what about a better interface to the next generation of CLHS? 17:28:03 fe[nl]ix: yes, that's the plan. I just want some input from you guys on what it could look like? 17:28:11 (define-package :asdf/driver (:nicknames :d) ...) 17:28:13 stassats: re: (funcall (function (setf sixth)) XXX ...) I found it. Common Lisp the Language 2nd edition page 122. 17:28:17 Fare: Any and all pointers welcome :) 17:28:25 It wasn't in the CLHS (sigh) 17:28:28 drmeister: cltl2 is not the spec 17:28:37 browndawg, look for anything by hbaker, including his ILC contributions 17:28:40 drmeister: how to find that (function (setf sixth)) is legal is 17:28:42 clhs function 17:28:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_fn.htm 17:28:55 clhs glossary/function name 17:28:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_name 17:28:56 teslalamp [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 17:29:07 clhs bob's your uncle 17:29:07 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for bob's your uncle. 17:29:23 Fare: Googling right now. 17:29:43 What about a web interface with instant search + examples? 17:30:00 could maybe expose an api for vim wrappers to use? 17:30:29 stassats: I'm sorry, I don't understand (clhs function) and (clhs glossary/function name) - are you invoking a bot? 17:30:43 are you seeing links? 17:30:52 you're invited to follow them 17:31:53 stassats: The CLHS is imprinted on my retina. I've spent the last six months writing a Common Lisp compiler (it is self hosting as of a few weeks ago). 17:32:53 Fare: did you take a look at https://github.com/franzinc/asdf ? 17:32:56 Yes, I see links. 17:33:56 I need to fix my codegenerator for the FUNCTION special operator. 17:34:48 I see now that "function name" means "symbol or a list (setf symbol)". 17:35:22 So this means that my FUNCTION code needs to lookup the function for (setf symbol) - got it. Thanks! 17:35:26 note that (funcall '(setf x)) is not legal 17:35:31 while (funcall #'(setf x)) is 17:35:39 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.92.1] 17:35:45 stassats: I see that now. 17:36:04 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.5] has joined #lisp 17:36:20 What kind of license is the clhs under? Am I allowed to build instant search for it or something? 17:36:55 Reading this currently - http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Help.htm#Legal 17:37:11 i advise you to consult your lawyer 17:37:48 :D 17:38:00 i'm serious! 17:38:03 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:39:02 I wonder if I sue lispworks for the appalling front page of the clhs 17:40:31 should probably contact them for permission 17:41:11 browndawg: You can download the CLHS onto your own computer. 17:41:22 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:41:53 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@70-90-173-245-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:00 drmeister: I know 17:42:07 see this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134611 a beauty! 17:42:20 *francogrex* cries over Corman 17:43:14 stassats: Patch committed. Thanks! 17:44:23 Does anyone know of a CL compiler that has a good way of interfacing C++ libraries? 17:44:50 ECL can do inline C++ 17:45:00 IIRC 17:45:38 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:47:05 fe[nl]ix - Thanks - I know about that one. I was looking for tighter integration - exposing functions, classes, methods etc. 17:47:09 -!- forrest__ [~forrest@cpe-76-187-13-203.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:31 forrest__ [~forrest@cpe-76-187-13-203.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:53 drmeister: not AFAIK 17:49:16 fe[nl]ix, looks like it's old stuff - allegro ships with asdf 2 these days 17:49:17 stella 17:50:18 fe[nl]ix: It's ok - I'm just checking around. 17:50:27 drmeister: exposing them to C++? 17:50:36 http://www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/Stella/ 17:51:10 prxq: Exposing C++ functions/classes/methods/objects to Common Lisp. 17:52:00 prxq: I've written a new Common Lisp implementation in C++ to interface Common Lisp to C++ - I check periodically to see if I just wasted a huge amount of effort. 17:52:26 Fare: how do I access the current .asd's pathname during parse-component-form ? simply *load-truename* ? 17:52:35 yes 17:52:58 and a recent swank knows not to try to compile 17:53:16 fe[nl]ix: The function IOLIB.SOCKETS::BUFF-SAP is undefined. 17:53:26 where does it come from usually? 17:53:49 ah, it's not a function, just an error from (with-pointer-to-vector-data (buff-sap buffer) 17:53:59 drmeister: xcl is an implementation written in c++ https://github.com/gnooth/xcl 17:55:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-110-57.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:00 -!- seangrove [~user@66-214-96-210.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:56:14 tcr: That's news to me. I'll look into it. 17:56:22 xcl shares much of its Lisp with ABCL. 17:56:24 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:40 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:30 I'm using LLVM for the back-end. 17:57:49 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.64.195.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:18 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002c3b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:59:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:19 snearch_ [~snearch@f053015186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:00:47 drmeister: you could try taking over xcl instead of rewriting from scratch 18:01:06 fe[nl]ix: I already wrote from scratch. 18:01:32 the entire CL standard library ? 18:02:18 fe[nl]ix: Pretty much - I'm still working on it. I just added exception handling and I'm working on compiling the entire standard library. 18:02:38 what's the end-goal? 18:02:58 exception handling eh? 18:05:01 I have 0.25 million lines of C++ code that builds molecules. I want to drive it with Common Lisp the way I used to drive it with PYTHON using boost::python. There is no Common Lisp implementation that cleanly interfaces with C++ - so I wrote one in C++. 18:05:33 I also completely fail to see how implementing in C++ helps interfacing with C++, as opposed to using something like clang and llvm to build a bridge. 18:05:49 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 18:06:28 0.00025 billion, you mean? 18:06:38 Clang and LLVM to build a bridge would be an excellent idea. When I started Clang wasn't up to snuff. If I had to do it over again I would use Clang and LLVM. 18:07:29 stassats: I'm a scientist - making numbers look bigger is sometimes part of the job. ;-) 18:07:32 It's a fun project, no doubt. But, if (setf foo) functions are news to you, I suggest writing a CL -> tiny subset of CL compiler, in CL, first. Bonus: it'll be easier to write an interpreter or compiler for that subset later on. 18:08:32 pkhuong: That's what I've done. I'm currently bootstrapping. 18:09:02 I'm also fairly certain that the work ahead to complete your CL implementation (and then to support it) vastly dominates that necessary to write a bridge from scratch. 18:09:19 drmeister: how can you compile CL if you don't handle SETF right? 18:09:28 I have a fully compliant but glacially slow CL interpreter. I load just enough of the standard library to implement a self-hosting compiler and now I'm compiling the rest of the standard library. 18:09:35 nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-142-148.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:09:48 Fare: https://github.com/sionescu/asdf/commits/master 18:09:56 fully compliant? impressive! 18:10:00 pkhuong: I have a very slow CL interpreter that apparently does handle SETF right. 18:11:15 If you call the host macroexpand, that's both cheating (i.e. useless for bootstrapping purposes) and wrong. 18:11:40 stassats: Let me modify that. I'm using the ECL Common Lisp code. It consists of several dozen files that add more and more functions to the CL environment. I load everything up until "loop.lsp" and it works. 18:12:08 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-172.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:43 I haven't loaded CLOS because it gets really, really slow. 18:13:15 Fare: ping 18:13:57 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:14:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 18:14:24 pkhuong: What do you mean by the "host macroexpand"? Please pardon my occasional newbie questions. I've only been programming in CL for about a year and my introduction has been through writing a compiler for CL. I'm a funny combination of knowledge and ignorance. 18:15:07 Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:12 drmeister: he means if you're implementing Lisp in Lisp the Lisp you're implementing in the "host". 18:15:23 Calling it's macro expand to implement your own macro expand is cheating. 18:15:29 s/it's/its/ 18:15:52 gigamonkey: Did you write Practical Common Lisp? If so - thank you. 18:15:59 Next up: rewriting CPython in C++ because how else can it interact with C++? same for gdb. 18:16:17 drmeister: I did. 18:17:10 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:58 gigamonkey: i'm waiting for the next installment, "How to Become a Millionaire with Common Lisp" 18:18:16 stassats: didn't pg already write that. 18:18:23 knob [~knob@adsl-173-228-245-30.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:33 I JIT compile macros when they are defined then I run them on their arguments and then compile the forms that they return into LLVM-IR. 18:22:10 Does anyone know how to get the function for something like (SETF SIXTH). Do I use get-setf-expansion? 18:22:51 I'm fixing my code generator for the FUNCTION special operator and I want to compile (FUNCTION (SETF SIXTH)). 18:22:56 drmeister: depends on how your implementation implements fdefinition. 18:23:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:23:37 -!- vlion [~vlion@66-87-74-74.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:23:58 (SETF SIXTH) is a function name, so you do the same thing you do with SIXTH 18:24:31 I think I'll have to learn a little more about this then. I only just discovered that the definition of "function name" includes "lists like (setf sixth)". 18:24:40 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.10.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:24:44 Also, you need lexenv access in the general case, same as for (function foo). So, the interesting bit is that you can't do it without implementing it yourself. 18:24:46 My current implementation of "fdefinition" doesn't know that. 18:25:15 I have complete access to the lexical environment - I wrote it. 18:26:14 That's extremely helpful though to know that I need to use "fdefinition". Thank you. 18:26:27 <|3b|> does (defun (setf foo) ...) work yet? 18:26:47 drmeister: well, no, you can't you fdefinition, it won't handle local functions 18:27:03 stassats: I just saw that in the CLHS. 18:27:15 Fully compliant. 18:27:51 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 18:28:06 Ok, I'll have to look into it later. 18:28:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:28:59 Since I have your ears - does someone have a few minutes to explain what "compile-file" needs to have in terms of a "dynamic environment" when compiling? 18:29:43 I know it sounds a little crazy - "how can he not know that if he's writing a compiler"? 18:30:00 Here's what I don't understand. get-setf-expansion has to have access to the lexenv. You have your own lexenv, so you must have your own get-setf-expansion. The default case for get-setf-expansion is to call #'(setf foo). 18:30:05 what about dynamic environment? 18:30:38 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:18 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:31:19 pkhuong: My get-setf-expansion function is the one in ECL - it's written in CL. I'll have to look at where it stores its setf definitions. 18:31:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:31:46 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 stassats: Environments are not explained very well in the CLHS - they are an implementation detail. 18:31:58 It's looking like a half-baked not-quite-CL implementation. That's scheme's niche; some schemes don't even have hygiene or call/cc. 18:32:37 drmeister: what aspect of it worries you? 18:32:41 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 18:32:50 pkhuong: It's a work in progress. I do have a self-hosting compiler - it generates code that runs >50x faster than my interpreter and the LOOP macro works. 18:32:54 cmm [~cmm@109.64.206.139] has joined #lisp 18:33:14 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:16 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:37 stassats: It's a bit murky in my head right now. When I have a "defmacro" in the code that I'm compiling, I have to store that macro definition somewhere that isn't the lexical environment and not the global environment so that forms that use that macro in the file that I'm compiling have access to it. That much I understand. 18:36:02 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:10 This problem is described well in "Common Lisp - The Language 2nd ed.". 18:36:23 The solution isn't really described well - I think it's left up to me. 18:36:39 well, it's the point of specifications 18:37:07 it just specifies an interface, everything not directly observable is up to you 18:37:11 stassats: I'm not complaining. The language is very well thought out. 18:37:23 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.227.146] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:37:36 for example, you can implement hashtables with alists and will be conforming 18:37:52 drmeister: is that impl available somewhere? 18:38:18 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.6.46] has joined #lisp 18:39:15 stassats: The question is how do I implement this. My current thinking is in "compile-file" I look for top-level "defmacro" forms and I store the definitions in a CONS in a dynamic variable and then when my code-generator encounters a macro it looks in this CONS first and then if it doesn't find it it goes to the global environment. 18:39:56 i'd suggest to use a hashtable 18:40:01 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:40:05 stassats: I can do this for "defparameter" and "defvar" and all the other forms that have compile-time side-effects. 18:40:09 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 18:40:23 defmacro has compile-time side-effects 18:40:33 prxq: I'll make it available as soon as I have CLOS working. 18:41:07 ECL can do inline C++, but integration (esp. the type/object system) is lacking; the solution is to take ECL's type and object (and more) system verbatim and retarget it to run on another runtime/code generator that happens to be written in C++. The amount of sense this plan makes is negative. 18:41:09 prxq: I'm going to call it "SCICL" (pronounced cycle) for Scientific Common-Lisp. (I don't think anyone took that name yet). 18:41:33 to confuse with SICL? 18:41:55 though, why not resurrect SICL along the way? 18:42:41 <|3b|> SICL was active last i looked 18:43:05 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@70-90-173-245-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:43:08 stassats: Ok, but am I on the right track? I kind of slide an old-timey environment between my lexical environment and the global environment. I can store value/function¯o/declares in it and then toss it away once the file is compiled. 18:43:52 you can't toss it away, it's global 18:44:00 shouldn't the macro definitions persist after the file is compiled...? 18:44:03 can't toss macros 18:44:13 declarations can be tossed away, true 18:44:24 Ok, I didn't know about "SICL" - I'll have to look it up. 18:44:27 functions, variables and macros are global 18:44:40 |3b|: the last commit is in 2011 18:44:45 |3b|: is there another repo? 18:44:45 <|3b|> drmeister: https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL 18:44:51 <|3b|> stassats: 10 hrs ago is last commit 18:45:17 I don't want to cause confusion with existing implementations. 18:45:25 pkhuong: Why doesn't it make sense? 18:45:29 |3b|: good 18:45:41 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@70-90-173-245-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:09 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 18:46:55 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:07 SICL - got it - I knew about that. I'll have to come up with a more different name (sigh). 18:47:24 too bad beach doesn't visit #lisp anymore 18:47:38 drmeister: because the same object system will have the same interop (in)capabilities. 18:47:58 pdenno [~pdenno@129.6.72.17] has joined #lisp 18:48:02 pkhuong: I'm not sure what you mean. 18:49:11 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 18:50:27 stassats: What do you mean "can't toss macros"? If I compile a file with a different definition of the SETF macro (horrors! I'm just using that as an example) then I don't want it to persist after the compile-file is done. 18:50:28 There is next to no relationship between the C++ interop capabilities of a language implementation and that implementation's being written in C++. LLVM does help a bit, mostly because it emits DWARF unwind information for you. 18:50:47 drmeister: well, you have to 18:51:36 CPython is written in C. boost::python exists. gdb is written in C. It's still the C++ debugger of choice on many platforms. 18:52:23 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:53:09 ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has joined #lisp 18:53:17 stassats: I'm looking for insight because I thought the new macro definition is only used to expand the new/weird SETF macro invocations within the file and once COMPILE-FILE is done there is no need for the weird macro definition. 18:54:31 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has quit [Client Quit] 18:55:19 pkhuong: We may be concerned about different things. I want to write Common Lisp wherein my C++ classes behave like fundamental types and where I can call methods on them and access their contents. I can't do that from something like ECL because I would have to write a C-wrapper for my C++ code and then a CFFI for the C-wrapper. 18:56:38 If you plan on rewriting ECL's CLOS, why not do that instead of first rewriting the wheel? I see, in the best case, wasted work, and in the worst case, a buggy not-quite-CL implementation. 18:57:36 -!- snearch_ [~snearch@f053015186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:57:36 pkhuong: boost::python is written using C++ template programming. My CL-C++ interface is based on boost::python. Oh wait, I think I see what you mean. CPython is written in C. Hmmm. Let me think on that. 18:58:01 drmeister: pkhuong has a point. You can achieve that goal with a lot less effort than what is involved in writing an even halfway decent CL implementation. 18:58:11 drmeister: it's not what global means 18:58:32 it means omnipresent 18:58:38 The language in which the implementation is written is very near irrelevant to the interop capabilities of some bridge. 18:59:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:30 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:59:35 pkhuong: You make a very good point. 18:59:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:39 even C++/sbcl integration would be a lot easier. 19:00:47 drmeister: have you looked at swig? 19:00:47 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:54 drmeister: defmacro definitions aren't limited to a file, basically. (also, you can't portably redefine cl:setf) 19:00:54 pkhuong: I think at the time I didn't know enough about the inner workings of ECL and C++ template programming to fashion a bridge. 19:01:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:42 prxq: I used to use swig a lot. I always ended up disappointed and switched to boost::python. 19:01:51 ok 19:02:19 Given how well you seem to know CL (or just language implementation issues in general), I'm nearly certain you underestimate the amount of work that goes in a full CL implementation. At the point where (setf sixth) is a hurdle, I'm pretty sure the amount of work left to get a working CL is far greater than the one needed to write a bridge from scratch. 19:02:21 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:45 Why hasn't anyone in the LISP community written a C++/CL bridge like boost::python? Crap I could have used that two years ago. 19:02:47 urandom_ [~user@p548A2AC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:53 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:02 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 19:03:35 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:39 pkhuong: I have to mull that over for a while. 19:03:45 <|3b|> not enough people who care about c++ and could write such a bridge? 19:03:56 drmeister: the issue is waiting for someone with enough motivation and knowledge... 19:04:15 I like C++ so much that I write C wrappers for my own C++ libraries. 19:04:22 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:35 olvar [~chatzilla@w-133.cust-3037.ip.static.uno.uk.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:44 hi guys! 19:04:47 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@li215-129.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:05:08 -!- blubberdiblub [~foobar@blubberdiblub.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:05:19 in python there was a way to run certain parts of the code when the file was executed as a script, but not when it was loaded as library 19:05:42 olvar: wrong channel? 19:05:43 do you know if there is a trick to achieve something similar in lisp? 19:05:52 eval-when? 19:05:53 xD 19:05:54 oh :-) 19:06:12 what is "as a library" in CL? 19:06:13 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:06:16 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:19 i've been tryin eval-when, but i cannot find a combination of situations that would work like that 19:06:23 drmeister: all libraries I use have a C interface 19:06:37 (load ...) 19:06:54 olvar: you almost certainly don't want to use a python hack in CL, since far more robust facilities exist (i.e. asdf) 19:06:57 pkhuong: I used to spend a lot of time writing wrappers. I'm so tired of it. 19:06:59 kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:11 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@70-90-173-245-California.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:07:27 so, for instance, if i have defined some functions in a.lisp that i want to use in b.lisp, but i dont want all the code in a.lisp to be run when i do (load "a.lisp") in b.lisp 19:07:54 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.230.216] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 19:07:58 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:07:58 use asdf, and don't do hackish things like that? 19:08:22 fe[nl]ix: I certainly did not appreciate how difficult what I am doing was at the beginning. But that is true for almost everything I've done in my life. 19:08:27 olvar: split the file. What code do you mean? Function definitions? 19:08:33 could be, but it would be like an overkill, these are just some silly functions for project euler :P 19:08:44 yep, basically function definitions 19:08:46 redline6561_ [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:09 olvar: for stuff like project euler, most people here just work at the REPL in a persistent process. 19:09:26 -!- b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.6.46] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2AC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-134-37.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@li215-129.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:56 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 19:10:50 duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:57 pkhuong: :( 19:11:27 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 19:12:27 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053015186.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:12:43 ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has joined #lisp 19:12:57 olvar: the hack you propose would be more overkill than just splitting the file 19:13:35 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:13:52 prxq: sorry, that comment was meant for oGMo (using asdf) 19:15:32 segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-134-37.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:40 Tarential [~Tarential@li472-156.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:58 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 19:16:30 b1rkh0ff [~b1rkh0ff@178.77.6.46] 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[~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:28:05 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:24 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:29:38 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 19:32:03 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 19:34:18 Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:35:54 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:30 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:04 fe[nl]ix, I have a different variant, somewhat more robust 19:38:24 but am lost agan in package munging at this moment 19:41:09 -!- Krystof_ [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:42:44 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 19:44:23 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] 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quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:30:02 when you provide a parser so that users can use a foreign command language, is there an usual way to build an internal representation of that "command" (in this case)? I began designing a set of nested CLOS objects but that looks like a stretch here 20:30:46 As it's a command, my CLOS idea is that once parsed you just have to invoke a top-level generic function on the command object and there it goes 20:31:17 but as I want to add options, maintaining the while thing looks like getting complex more quickly than the problem I want to solve, which is a bad feeling 20:32:47 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:34:05 cafaro [~tman@37-251-16-95.FTTH.ispfabriek.nl] has joined #lisp 20:34:05 -!- cafaro [~tman@37-251-16-95.FTTH.ispfabriek.nl] has quit [Changing host] 20:34:05 cafaro [~tman@unaffiliated/cafaro] has joined #lisp 20:34:06 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:35:16 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-102-242.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:26 pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:36:18 dim: since your parser should read "command", it would seem natural for it to produce lisp expressions. 20:36:21 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:36:41 the command can get quite complex and embed loads of option 20:36:49 Parsing "ls -l" could produce (ls :l t), so that you just have to implement (defun ls (&key l) ..) to run ls -l directly. 20:37:05 you might know the SQL*Loader tool from Oracle, and the pgloader tool for PostgreSQL, and the COPY command? 20:37:38 sexps and pattern matching. Once the design seems to gel, you can consider moving to a CLOSier approach. 20:37:43 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:05 I'm looking at doing the next pgloader version in CL, that's a pet project I spare some time on here and there... and a SQL*Loader command can expand to pages and pages 20:38:11 It's as you want. Type: ls -l ; what do you expect? Some function (ls) to be called, or some obejct # to be printed? 20:39:02 Notably, with the later, you need to implement your own REPL, etc, instead of using CL's one. 20:39:10 well I know what I want (executing command(s) with different kinds of parallelism), what I'm worried about is code maintenance cost 20:39:38 well I will certainly propose a lisp way to do things, but that's not the primary goal here 20:39:50 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:39:59 that points towards evaluable s-exps though 20:39:59 If you produce a lisp sexp, then you can easily mix the domain specific syntax with lisp code with a reader macro: (progn (princ "Listing:")(terpri) { ls -l }) 20:40:10 *drewc* uses postgresql every day, and COPY all the time, with a .csv output ... and has never heard of pgloader at all ... google time 20:40:14 as pkhuong says that can lead to a CLOS design later 20:41:09 drewc: COPY IN is great but transactional, if you load a 1 000 000 lines file and the transaction aborts just before the end, that's all wasted 20:41:23 But notice that if you need objects, you can always implement ls as a constructor, to return a ls object. 20:41:30 pgloader copes with that (and it's not transactionnal anymore, or only for chunks at a time anyway) 20:41:41 pjb: my current parser does that yes 20:41:59 it seems quite complex to add in support for new options, now 20:42:26 The difference is that if you write '{ls -l} you should get (ls :l t) instead of # 20:42:27 but the previous version did produce a simple s-exp, that I didn't try to make look like lisp code yet 20:42:38 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.25.83] has joined #lisp 20:42:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.25.83] has quit [Changing host] 20:42:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:42:53 yeah, it has to, because that is how transactions work. I may sure that all my data is correct and if there is an error in the data, do not put it in the database. 20:42:54 and it seemed complex for other things, like, within the middle o fthe parser you're easily lost in the "code" you want to generate 20:43:24 mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has joined #lisp 20:43:25 pgloader does that for you, and the part that was ok remains in the database, and the part that was not is all in a reject file 20:43:48 ok, so something I would never use at all. got it, and thanks! :) 20:43:49 and it allows for parsing strange formats that COPY knows nothing about 20:44:08 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:44:30 oh, and it allows for transformations too, so that you can parse MySQL idea of a timestamp format and convert it before PostgreSQL gets to see it 20:44:48 the other way to to load all as text then use SQL to re-process the data, of course 20:44:51 but well 20:44:52 *drewc* thinks parsers are easy having spent the last 4 years looking into the science behind them, and still would never ever use that. 20:45:27 the current parser I did for the extended pgloader COPY command is using cl-lex and cl-yacc 20:45:40 I did have a look at some cl pakrat libs but was unconvinced 20:45:55 even after having implemented the parser with pyparsing in python before 20:46:19 ok, then never mind , there are a lot more problems then your pg use :P 20:46:20 maybe I should revise that choice and the maintenance of the parser would be easier using pakrat rather than yacc, any idea about that? 20:47:12 well, first I would look at how easy parser combinators are ... for example https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/smug.org 20:48:10 then, one I (and others) used that lib for 2 or 3 years, I would look into the implementation of that lib itself... : http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html#sec-5 20:49:04 I remember having had a look at it but failed at the time to readily how to write my own parser with it 20:49:09 will have another look :) 20:49:14 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:49:24 (maybe not tonight though) 20:49:32 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:59 then, I would release that having parsers based on the ancient C and/or ASM stuff is, well, not so great. And I prefer to write in Lisp rather than regexp or other C/ASM/Perl type languages. 20:50:48 oh cl-yacc is pretty good, even if depending on cl-lex which uses regexpes way too much for my taste too 20:51:29 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:08 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:15 so, if (defun constituent () (=and (=not (non-constituent)) (item))) does not make any sense, and you would prefer a regex that makes no sense (imo), then I suggest using old Unix based stuff, and I will write a chapter in my haters handbook about it :D 20:52:24 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:44 ahah, I don't see cl-yacc as being that unixy... 20:53:08 see http://www.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr/~jch/software/cl-yacc/cl-yacc.html 20:53:08 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:53:20 "The computer program Yacc is a parser generator developed by Stephen C. Johnson at AT&T Corporation for the Unix operating system in 1970" 20:53:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:53:47 yeah I know 20:54:06 the cl-yacc team did a good job at providing the feature to lisp without the unixy side of it, IMO 20:54:27 yikes, way to many macros and sytax for me to use, look like a lisp that I do not like either :) 20:54:37 hehe, fair enough 20:54:50 BTW, I'm sold on trying smug later, you know? :) 20:55:07 and on generating s-exps that I could then evaluate somehow 20:55:56 that is a good idea ... the 'code' for smug is approx 50 LoC, but I do not use it at all, so really, if you want to look at things ... 20:57:03 http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html#sec-5 <--- that is using DEFINE-INTERFACE to define a test of my monad library the is >= SMUG 20:57:18 The point of using sexps (at least as intermediate code), is that they can easily be re-interpreted as something else, just reading them in a different package with different definitions for the symbols, or by passing them to a different "interpreter" or "compiler". More easily than with a tree of objects I find. 20:57:34 of CLOS instances. 20:58:13 dim: https://github.com/drewc/lisp-interface-library/tree/interface/monad <---- that source code for it 'proper' 20:58:19 then let's say the parser produces something like (copy :from (load :file "/path/to.csv" :sep #\;) :set work_mem "12MB" :to '(database connection spec)), I guess I'm not going to use the evil eval function on it? 20:59:10 pjb: I agree. The problem is designing the program you want to generate and not getting lost within the tree from the parser code, in my case 20:59:17 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:18 *drewc* has over 400,000 LoC of CL that he has wrote personally ... there is no EVAL's in that code at all ;) 20:59:39 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:05 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 dim: well this is a separate problem. [alien text]-(parser)->[sexp]-(compiler)->[program] 21:00:31 drewc: all those lines just to avoid calling EVAL? 21:00:42 stassats: and more to come! 21:00:45 :-) 21:01:02 pjb: so the more specific question is, what would your typical compiler here look like? 21:01:23 COMPILE ;) 21:01:36 mmm, yeah 21:02:01 drewc: i'm sure you're just using (funcall (intern (reverse (string 'LAVE)) :cl)), no? 21:02:02 you provide the implementation, so CL knows how to 21:02:30 you need to have decided an antry point in your design though, to be able to call it once the compiler is done, right? 21:02:34 s/antry/entry/ 21:03:09 stassats: even worse ... (defun never-eval (sexp) (cl:eval sexp)) 21:03:13 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 21:04:59 (400,001 LoC ago, I wrote NEVER-EVAL and use it all the time :() 21:05:54 dim: for compile and running for any language at any time, you need to decide what to 'run' after you COMPILE 21:06:02 dim: that really depends on your language. 21:06:16 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3880.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:11 dim: but basically, it's a function that takes a sexp of your language, and returns a lisp function that when called implements the semantics of your sexp. 21:07:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:09:04 *drewc* has "The Theory of Parsing, Translation and Compiling" on his bookshelf and recommend it or something similar. knowledge is power after all. 21:09:18 pjb: oh yes. almost too simple. 21:10:08 (defmacro compile-pgloader-command (&body) (lambda () ,@body)) 21:10:30 (funcall (compile-pgloader-command (parse-command "..."))) 21:11:22 forgot a backquote did ya dim? :P 21:12:02 s/defmacro/defun/ 21:12:46 More like: (defun compile-pgloader-command (form) (compile nil `(lambda () ,(generate-pgloader-code form)))) 21:12:47 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-041.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:59 drewc: I did. pjb: oh. I should stop thinking it's complex. 21:13:01 agreed as well, does not seem to be a macro at all, and if fact making it a macro is one of the reasons I do not like lisp code made by non-lispers ;) 21:13:10 in fact* 21:15:13 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:15:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:17:44 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:21:12 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:21:56 Sean-Der [~sean@NW1-DSL-74-215-64-154.fuse.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:32 well, there are some uses for macros. Though I'd admit mine would be there just to remove quoting and make it look more like defun ;) 21:23:16 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:22 so of course generate-pgloader-code could be a generic function working on the command CLOS instance... 21:23:35 just to add some circles to a good conversation:) 21:24:13 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:24:43 I know the single quote ' backtick ` what is ' symbol? I can not find its ASCII code 21:24:57 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:25:06 #\' #\` 21:25:14 (char-name #\') (char-name #\`) 21:25:51 ` buffer code: #x60 name: GRAVE ACCENT 21:26:18 dim: look into hu.dwim.perec code - they use a CLOS protocol to create extensible, compiled queries 21:26:39 pjb: CCL returns NIL for the char-name here 21:26:52 Hi, the definition of a _function name_ in the CLHS includes a list like (setf ...) eg: (FUNCTION (SETF SIXTH)) Does anyone know if there are any other valid types of names (other symbols that can be in the place of SETF other than LAMBDA? 21:27:00 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:15 Ok, many improvements still in 2.26.86 21:27:23 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 21:27:26 drmeister: implementations can define their own but that's it, iirc 21:27:28 clisp has a better character database. 21:27:31 asdf is managing its own lisp script to bump versions. No more perl! 21:27:53 Bike: Thank you very much! That makes my life easier. 21:27:56 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:27:59 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:00 drmeister: e.g. ccl has ccl:nlambda and sbcl has sb-int:named-lambda 21:28:39 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:47 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:21 Bike: That sounds like the ext::lambda-block in ECL. 21:29:40 i wouldn't know. 21:29:45 pjb: yeah, SBCL too, it seems 21:30:16 Bike: That's ok - I'm just making connections. 21:30:18 Fare: w00t! :) 21:30:18 OK, so -- can more people try the new ASDF and tell me where it fails and/or where it really helps them? 21:30:56 the main feature is a well-sub-packaged runtime support system called asdf/driver 21:31:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-227.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:32:09 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-015-106.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:32:14 what is a runtime support system? 21:32:44 running an inferior program on the host? 21:33:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-151.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:34:00 the runtime is now sligthly bigger than the build system itself. 21:34:15 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abom169.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:34:40 no, it's just managing your *command-line-arguments*, hooks for dumping and resuming your image, printing a backtrace, muffling uninteresting conditions, etc. 21:34:54 dealing with pathnames portably. 21:35:14 sounds cool 21:35:26 defining packages in a way that survives a hot code upgrade where packages are shuffled. 21:35:34 THAT was hell 21:35:40 including "executable" images (with the kernel and the x bit)? 21:35:55 safely printing stuff in a way that you're not interrupted by an error 21:35:56 drmeister: "function name n. 1. (in an environment) A symbol or a list (setf symbol) that is the name of a function in that environment. 2. A symbol or a list (setf symbol). " is what is in ANSI common lisp. Anything else is not ANSI 21:35:56 was? :) 21:36:34 dim: yes, some support for executable images -- not complete, but almost. 21:36:36 drewc: Thank you - I saw that but I wasn't sure if (setf symbol) was just an example or the only legal value. 21:36:47 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abom169.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:47 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abop122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:37:03 can also spawn unix commands 21:37:09 and get their output 21:37:10 Fare: so you're deprecating cl-buildapp but targeting the whole range of lisp implementations? 21:37:24 unix commands, that's good to have to 21:37:27 too 21:37:33 dunno if I'm deprecating it, but hopefully it will reuse the asdf internals 21:37:45 and same for cl-launch, xcvb, etc. 21:38:00 My goal: no more perl and shell scripts -- all lisp. 21:38:09 :) 21:38:12 +1 to that goal 21:38:27 well, at least to offering the capability in an easy way 21:38:44 I'll maintain an existing script -- by writing it in a more lispy style until I convert it -- but I won't start a new one. 21:38:56 dim: getting there. 21:39:17 yes, all implementations with the capability are supported. 21:40:14 oh yes, define-package also allows you to mix packages and reexport them 21:40:34 mix: like use, but earlier packages win conflicts. 21:40:51 reexport: exports all the same names (might be different symbols) 21:41:12 that means fewer headaches with defpackage. 21:41:26 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:26 reexport sounds like (rename-package package package nickname) 21:41:32 nope 21:42:34 if P1 export the names A B C and P2 reexport P1, then P2 will export the names A B C --- but these might be different symbols -- or the same if you also :use P1 21:43:15 oh and with (package-definition-form :foo) you can see what's in the package. 21:43:50 in any case... have fun 21:44:49 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:49 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:45:08 thanks :) 21:45:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:29 sic transit my coding marathon 21:47:36 Does anybody have algorithms lying around to find optimal ways to split code graphs of a single function into multiple sub-functions? 21:47:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:47:56 code graphs? 21:48:10 optimal wrt what criterion? 21:49:07 Fare: optimal in the sense that it should generate sub functions as large as possible (but smaller than some pre-set size) and the minimal number of "shared" variables. 21:49:23 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:38 ie. I don't mind passing arguments to the sub function, but the subfunction should not expect to be able to pass values back. 21:49:40 ehu: Well, the algorithm would be to try to match those code graphs to some semantics, and to split them according to some meaningful boundaries. 21:49:55 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:49:56 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:50 yea. it's just that I was wondering if anybody had something like it lying around. 21:50:54 drmeister: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm ... The spec is the spec :) 21:51:39 Guess not. Too bad :-) 21:52:02 drewc: Which entry are you point me to? 21:52:08 I'm using elephant persistent objects. Does anyone know why get-instances-by-class returns two of each object? Is that supposed to happen? 21:52:17 bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:08 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:59:00 -!- pnpuff` [~Eternit@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:59:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:08 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:00:12 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-046-005-062-174.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:01:18 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 22:01:42 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:01:58 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:43 drmeister: or, if the spec says that is the definition of function name, that is a function name, and if you want to implement CL, you have to follow the spec. But there are other things that are defined starting with function, and things that use those things, etc... 22:05:36 drewc: I think I understand it now. "function name" means a symbol or a list of the form (SETF symbol). A CL implementation is free to define additional lists that can represent function names but standard CL only allows (SETF symbol). 22:05:44 drewc: Am I correct? 22:07:17 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 22:08:27 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:27 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:08:27 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:09:02 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:50 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:58 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:30 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:31 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:51 -!- pdenno [~pdenno@129.6.72.17] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:09 -!- bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 22:15:39 Fare: ping 22:15:45 vujalov [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe70:ade3] has joined #lisp 22:15:49 -!- vujalov [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe70:ade3] has left #lisp 22:19:21 . 22:19:49 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:53 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:20:50 drmeister: not quite. For example, FDEFINITION and others have to follow the spec as well, and the function block etc .. so 'free' is a relative freedom in this case. You are free to make a not Common Lisp program for a not Common Lisp implementation. 22:21:16 One can write a superset of the CL language. 22:21:30 drewc: Got it - thank you. 22:22:08 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:37 I think I figured out how to implement code generation for (FUNCTION (SETF symbol)) 22:23:11 zolk3ri . 22:23:40 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:52 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl6-50-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:24:08 pjb: indeed. for example I use threads, sockets, MOP and others extensions every day.... and of course 'odd' things with the pathnames, and SB- etc. 22:24:34 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:26:22 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:44 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:29:17 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:14 -!- lukas__ [~lukas@194.228.13.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:30:28 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:30:44 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:30:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:31:07 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3880.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:31 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A2AC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:34:18 fe[nl]ix, pong 22:37:31 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-46-112-14-36.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:37:32 can I count on symbol-call being present in asdf/package ? 22:37:41 woot! I can reproduce the symptoms of stassats when I try to run POIU! 22:37:47 fe[nl]ix, YES 22:37:56 and how do I use :around-compile ? 22:38:14 that's one of the things that will make it to the frozen API, whenever the API for asdf/package is frozen. 22:38:58 it still has the problem that if I have :defsystem-depends-on (:iolib.asdf) I can't use :around-compile iolib.asdf:asdf-wrapper 22:39:47 it would be nice if ASDF provided a reader macro for lazily-interned symbols, available in .asd files 22:40:00 :around-compile "iolib.asdf:asdf-wrapper" 22:40:00 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:11 just like that ? 22:40:12 that's why I read from string. Now you know. 22:40:17 ok 22:40:20 :) 22:43:11 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VVE 22:43:54 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:45:18 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:18 this looks like a case of a symbol not being normalized to an object before calling component-depends-on 22:45:33 any non-standard method around? 22:46:11 that's while trying to load ASDF 22:47:31 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: tps_] 22:47:41 interesting. 22:47:53 looks like a mixup of old and new 22:48:00 which is the original version of asdf? 22:48:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:49:29 2.26 22:50:20 I'm not sure it's from quicklisp or cmucl, but it shouldn't make any difference 22:50:27 nope, no diff 22:50:48 what's in your cclinit? 22:51:13 more package woes. 22:51:15 oh well 22:51:18 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:51:55 may or may not help, asdf/package::*fishy-package-changes* 22:52:03 http://paste.lisp.org/+2VVE/1 22:52:12 that's all 22:52:44 ok, so there's a quicklisp-installed asdf followed by the real asdf. 22:53:01 what about asdf/package::*fishy-package-changes* ? 22:54:33 it's enormous 22:54:49 takes several seconds to print on the terminal 22:55:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF8888.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:40 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:50 I'll save it to a file and email it to you 22:57:15 thanks 22:57:27 disable pretty-printing 23:00:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:16 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:24 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:01:57 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:02:17 Fare: you should have received it 23:05:02 so the around-compile hook gets called with the continuation ? 23:06:12 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:06:14 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:08:04 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:21 yup 23:10:45 in 2.27 it can also bind *uninteresting-compiler-conditions* 23:11:02 good 23:11:04 http://paste.lisp.org/+2VVF 23:11:06 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 23:11:46 do I have to quote the function name if it's a string ? 23:12:03 I mean inside the string 23:12:08 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:56 there's probably a new bug here in ensure-function. I should really be using read-from-string as before... wait... 23:13:34 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:46 :around-compile "'iolib.asdf::asdf-wrapper" works but seems a bit clunky 23:13:51 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 23:14:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:16:13 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:16:45 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:22 maybe we need an around-load too 23:18:14 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:00 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:20:07 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:53 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:26:42 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:29:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:33 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 23:34:10 no we do NOT need or want an around-load 23:34:29 it defeats the linking of ECL, the fasl concatenation, etc. 23:35:22 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:35:42 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:36:16 not even only for systems ? 23:36:44 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:06 how do I control the dynamic environment of load-time-value forms ? 23:37:08 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:37:28 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:37:40 what kind of environment? 23:37:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:55 you have their dependencies accumulate changes? 23:38:05 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:38:23 you run forms that bind stuff? 23:38:42 You arrange for things to be done at compile-time? 23:38:50 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:38:51 You generate let and progv forms? 23:38:56 Not sure what you mean. 23:39:23 You'd like load of a fasl to be wrapped? Well, you can do it, but I think it's a mighty bad idea. 23:39:25 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-188-204.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:28 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:37 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:39:50 in 2.27 you could have a method on perform-lisp-load-fasl 23:39:52 not of a fasl, of the entire system 23:40:06 just what is "the entire system"? There is no such thing. 23:40:31 what if I load one file, but not the other, because it's up to datE? 23:40:54 -!- agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:43:33 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-134-37.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:43:51 I have another problem 23:44:12 ok? 23:44:16 defclass asdf::iolib-grovel-file and using :iolib-grovel-file as compoment type no longer works 23:44:25 how so? 23:44:33 (ASDF/DEFSYSTEM::CLASS-FOR-TYPE (asdf:find-system :iolib.sockets) :IOLIB-GROVEL-FILE) signals an error 23:45:00 and (find-class 'asdf::iolib-grovel-file) => # 23:45:42 -!- forrest__ [~forrest@cpe-76-187-13-203.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:47:16 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:47:20 isn't the find-class what you expect? 23:47:37 yes it is 23:47:54 my define-package is obviously still very fishy. 23:48:08 I'll refactor it so it just works. 23:48:09 but defsystem no longer recognizes the keyword as a class name 23:48:47 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:52 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 23:48:55 I didn't change anything there, did I? 23:49:05 the code looks the same as in 2.26 23:49:38 it's possible that my symbol munging massive confuses CLOS 23:49:45 because I'm not doing it right 23:49:52 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-234-73-232.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:51:46 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:52:13 Is there a quicklisp project that has something like this? https://gist.github.com/4526900 23:52:16 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84ebd3.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:19 (see docstring at the end) 23:52:23 I did add a case against keyword in find-class* but it's #+gcl<2.7 23:52:40 forrest__ [~forrest@rrcs-64-183-255-247.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:22 - 23:53:28 I found something that that seemed similar in one of the hu.dwim projects, but it was written in hungarian lisp 23:55:14 Defining with-foo and call-with-foo automatically should be a tool in everyone's box 23:55:18 fe[nl]ix, herep 23:55:26 do you have a REPL on this image? 23:55:38 or can you get one? 23:57:16 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:19 It's suprising that CCL still has the ,@,@ bug. 23:59:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-151.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:59:09 Fare: nevermind, it was my fault 23:59:55 (:read-file-form "../version.lisp-expr") doesn't work as you implemented it