00:00:28 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:02:19 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:02:37 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:56 is it possible to portably make a pathname for a file with an asterisk in the name? 00:03:14 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:04:05 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: tps_] 00:05:50 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:06:33 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 00:06:46 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:08:57 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:17 jasom: (make-pathname :name "foo*") 00:10:43 drewc: not on ccl 00:10:50 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:08 or clisp 00:11:24 what do you mean? 00:11:36 I need it to be a non-wild pathname 00:12:07 since everything but sbcl doesn't want to open a wildcard pathname 00:12:30 tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 00:14:59 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:02 clhs make-pathname 00:15:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_pn.htm 00:16:36 drewc: (wild-pathname-p (make-pathname :name "foo*")) <-- that returns true on ccl and clisp 00:17:29 (wild-pathname-p (make-pathname :name "foo\\*")) => NIL on ccl 00:17:41 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:17:47 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: tps_] 00:21:00 jasom: no it's not possible: some file system may forbid asterisks in their file names. 00:21:47 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:21:53 pjb: okay rather, is it possible, given a string that contains only legal filename characters, to to portable open a file with that name 00:22:13 -!- drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has left #lisp 00:22:15 drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 00:22:30 pathnames and portable in one sentence? 00:22:32 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:22:42 and, it that a wild pathname because of the * ? 00:23:17 mindcruzer [~mindcruze@149.255.33.155] has joined #lisp 00:23:19 or: :NAME does exist, does it consider the :name wild? 00:23:23 I have a list of double-floats where each sequential element pair should be added (e.g.: 0+1 + 1+2 + 2+3 + .. + n-1+n). I think a simple (loop for i in list) with summing clause will suffice, but I'm unsure how to refer to each previous element in the loop (where the iteration will start at the 1th instead of 0th element in thbe list). But there's probably a cleaner/shorter (mapping) solution for this easy problem? 00:23:59 drewc: an implementation can define a wildcard character that makes a name a wild-word; asterisks in logical-pathnames are always considered wild 00:24:20 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:24:26 jasom: you still don't understand what you're asking! 00:24:45 are they now? well then, I will stick to common lisp 00:25:15 cafaro: IIRC iterate had something for it 00:25:15 cafaro: (loop for (a b) on list while b sum (+ a b)) 00:25:39 drewc: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/19_ca.htm 00:25:47 jasom: have a look at http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/731final/4506/4506pro_014.html#apps_locating_naming_files 00:26:03 cafaro: 'it' being explicitly referring to the previous result. 00:26:07 i like stassats's solution 00:26:11 stassats, madnificent: ok thanks! 00:26:15 madnificent: i like it too! 00:27:22 -!- LAMMJohn1on [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:25 pjb: yes, vms has a very different syntax for naming files. it still as a part of the string considered a "filename" and there is some set of characters which may legally be part of that. 00:27:47 Yes, but is '*' a valid character in those file names? 00:28:12 pjb: I don't care. I just care that if someone gives me a string that contains only valid characters, that I can open that file 00:28:13 jasom: the pathnames system wasn't made in such a way that each file name on each filesystem could be represented. 00:28:28 madnificent: so there are files that common-lisp can't open? 00:28:38 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:28:45 jasom: The "Filename" and ".Extension" portions can contain characters from "A" to "Z", "0" to "9", "$" (a dollar sign), "_" (an underscore), or "-" (a dash or hyphen). No other "special" characters are allowed. Avoid the "$" (dollar sign) and "-" (hyphen) characters for ISO-9660 compatibility. 00:28:45 cafaro: or maybe you want (loop for (a b) on list sum a while b sum b)? 00:29:21 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:27 pjb: so I would want to be able to portably create a filename from those characters, were I running on VMS 00:29:28 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:29:32 jasom: yes. at least not as per standard. 00:29:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002406.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:29:45 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:50 So if you want to write portable physical pathnames, you cannot use other characters. Even '-' and '$' are out of limits (and I would avoid '_' too). 00:30:04 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 00:30:16 stassats: nope, both only the sequential ones 00:30:22 -both 00:30:27 jasom: well, then there's no difficulty: (make-pathname :name "EXAMPLE" :type "TEXT" :case :common) 00:30:33 pjb: i hadn't thought of #\- and #\_, only now that you explicit it, i realize that i use them quite often. 00:30:37 pjb: okay, lets say I'm running on VMS; how do I handle the fact that a conforming implementation could decide that "0" denotes a wildcard 00:30:51 and I want to open a file named "0" 00:31:01 madnificent: yes, I must admit that I use - in my file names on unix. The only license I allow myself. 00:31:04 jasom: it can't, the spec says what are wildcards 00:31:16 madnificent: only for logical pathnames 00:31:42 is a pathname logical once it has a wildcard? 00:31:43 cafaro: another way: (reduce #'+ (mapcar #'+ list (cdr list))) 00:31:48 jasom: by buying a bat, and be ready to find the author of your implementation. 00:31:51 but less efficient, naturally 00:32:13 stassats: looks complicated :) 00:32:25 stassats: you should have stayed on your high :P 00:33:02 jasom: when you give component strings to make-pathname, they're not interpreted as physical pathname components. So there, only the '*' can be used as wildcard. 00:33:11 pjb: then sbcl is wrong 00:33:24 jasom: (make-pathname :name "FOO*" :type :wild :case :common) 00:33:32 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:33:33 --> #P"foo*.*" 00:33:37 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:53 (wild-pathname-p (make-pathname :name "*")) 00:33:53 -!- PaulHarris [~smoothop@cor.ms] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:33:56 =>nil 00:34:42 madnificent: what, you don't possess an SSC? 00:35:40 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 00:35:42 PaulHarris [~smoothop@cor.ms] has joined #lisp 00:35:51 stassats: no, i doubt it. however, i liked the initial solution best for readability. 00:36:25 stassats: wait. s/an/a/ ? Sufficiently Smart Compiler, right? 00:36:51 Ess Ess Cee 00:37:19 minion: what does SSC stand for? 00:37:19 Syntechnic Snorter Cleanhanded 00:38:01 minion agrees, it's bedtime for me 00:39:23 jasom: ah, well, I'm not sure they're not conforming. It's too late now, I can't do language lawyering now. It's probably best to avoid wildcard components anyways. (make-pathname :host "SOME-LOGICAL-HOST" :name :wild) is ok, but indeed I'm not sure that (make-pathname :host "SOME-LOGICAL-HOST" :name "FOO*") is defined. #P"SOME-LOGICAL-HOST:FOO*" is defined however. 00:39:59 jasom: (wild-pathname-p (make-pathname :name "*")) returns T on ccl clisp and ecl here. 00:40:10 I don't want a wildcard component. I'm just walking a directory tree, and some of the files have asterisks in them. It only works on sbcl right now; I think I know enough to say that I'll have to special case each lisp 00:40:30 jasom: what about using iolib? 00:40:40 stassats: how do I open a file-path? 00:40:51 *jasom* is using iolib, that was the only way to walk the directory 00:41:11 (with *s in the file name anyway) 00:41:23 jasom: 1- conformingly, you should use logical pathnames. 2- with logical pathnames, you can access all the files for which you can write a physical pathname thru a logical pathname translation. 3- an implementation may not provide enough physical pathname to cover all the files possible on a file system. 00:41:56 pjb: yup. so there are some files that may be unopenable in some implementations :( 00:42:01 jasom: mind you, some file system can be mounted with inaccessible files for naming problems (like case sensitive file systems on case insensitive OSes, etc). 00:42:10 jasom: Yes. 00:42:16 At least with CL API. 00:42:30 You can always use POSIX thru CFFI, on POSIX systems. 00:43:49 *jasom* wonders what would happen if he called "directory" 00:44:18 It would probably work. 00:45:03 not on ecl 00:46:02 or clisp 00:46:34 ccl works (it returns a #p"/foo/bar/\\*") 00:47:26 but ccl can't handle files with backslashes 00:47:36 jasom: looks like iolib doesn't have file-streams currently 00:47:46 but they can easily be added 00:48:03 well, at least for ub8 00:48:18 stassats: which is all I need since I'm using flexi-streams anyway 00:49:04 so clisp and ecl can open files with backslashes in their names and ccl can open files with asterisks in their name 00:49:19 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:33 make a gray stream class, use iosys:open, add a method for read-byte and write-byte and bob is your uncle 00:50:00 stassats: my uncle bob died a few years back 00:50:10 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:45 mason_ [~mason@212.91.105.175] has joined #lisp 00:51:42 i have actually an efficient (for my tasks) implementation of streams which only uses open, read, write, close, but for sbcl only 00:51:50 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:51:51 ...but apparently that's some commonwealth slang I'm unfamiliar with 00:52:10 ruediger [~quassel@ptmx.org] has joined #lisp 00:52:15 perhaps i can transplant it to use iolib 00:52:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:52:54 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:53:21 Trystam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 00:53:28 -!- hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:53:35 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-041.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 00:53:42 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has joined #lisp 00:54:20 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:55:18 I propose that we should all be using iolib for pathnames and anything serious 00:55:42 -!- ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:18 yeah, i'm thinking about transitioning all my code to it 00:56:55 or of course, you could try to paper over the madness by growing even more code on top of asdf/pathnames 00:57:17 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.252.188] has joined #lisp 00:57:26 well, cl doesn't include sockets, threads, whatnot already 00:57:38 so, it can be considered, that pathnames are nonexistent too 00:57:56 asdf/pathname is a 809-line tribute to the brokenness of pathnames in CL 00:58:30 btw, I committed a fix to your previous problem (I hope) in 2.26.71 01:00:23 39 passing and 2 failing 01:00:25 progress 01:00:39 failing test(s): test-encodings.script test-touch-system-2.script 01:00:40 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:49 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@149.255.33.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:19 jimlek22` [~user@209.119.38.228] has joined #lisp 01:01:53 Fare: and the error is Can't create directory /home/stas/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.1.3.5-8369a44-dirty-linux-x64/ 01:02:04 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:02:25 and The assertion (> DATE2 DATE1) failed. for touch 01:02:55 interesting. 01:02:56 thanks! 01:03:08 (why don't *I* see this failure?) 01:03:21 it's not really a clean sbcl, it includes my source-registry and binary-locations settings 01:04:00 and a stock sbcl asdf 01:04:34 -!- ruediger [~quassel@ptmx.org] has left #lisp 01:04:41 -!- jimlek22 [~user@209.119.38.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:04:46 normanrichards [~normanric@74.61.92.158] has joined #lisp 01:06:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08:48 can you mail your source-registry and binary-locations? 01:09:43 Fare: it's (setf asdf:*central-registry* `(*default-pathname-defaults* "~/lisp/systems/")) 01:09:53 and (asdf:enable-asdf-binary-locations-compatibility :centralize-lisp-binaries t :default-toplevel-directory *fasl-dir*) 01:11:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E8C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:11:35 thanks! 01:12:20 i guess you'd have to delete your existing ~/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl... or it won't fail 01:12:41 neither should affect the testing, though: I take care of overriding both of these. 01:13:03 or maybe I fail to 01:13:19 stassats: who is giving this error? those two tests? 01:13:27 yes 01:13:36 respectively 01:14:25 interesting. 01:14:42 and is there a good reason why you cannot create this directory? 01:14:56 what do you mean? 01:15:11 ah, ha-ha, it's a broken symlink 01:16:02 40 passing and 1 failing 01:16:02 k0001_ [~k0001@host57.186-125-118.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:16:42 oh, I see how I fail to configure the output translations for stuff outside the test directory, which includes asdf-encodings. 01:17:03 test-touch-system-2.script still fails with the same "The assertion (> DATE2 DATE1) failed." 01:19:15 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:19:38 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.219.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:21:57 is there something special about your filesystem? 01:22:11 wouldn't think so 01:22:32 it'd be easier if the test system said which test specifically failed 01:22:32 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.18] has joined #lisp 01:23:04 oh, it's one test per file, ok 01:23:19 make test-lisp lisp=sbcl test-glob=test-touch-system-2.script 01:23:27 to run just this test 01:23:47 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:49 it might be that waiting 1 sec is not enough on some system. Does it work if you bump the sleep to 2 seconds? 01:24:28 not even with 3 01:24:29 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:46 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:15 any BSD user around? Does this work on BSD? date -d 'now - 10 seconds' 01:25:45 both are 3561889397 3561889397 01:25:56 Fare: it does not on os x 01:26:09 (I think that has an fbsd 6+ userland?) 01:29:08 Yuuhi```` [benni@p5483A126.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:32 is there a portable lisp way to touch? 01:29:46 does touch -d work on BSD? 01:31:03 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-128-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 01:31:10 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483A15F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:31:38 jeti [~user@p548EA2C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:54 yeah, there is ... 01:33:06 hold i have it somewhere . 01:34:09 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF502F5.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:26 ah yes 01:34:31 (open pn :direction :probe :if-does-not-exist :create) 01:35:04 well, doesn't do much when it exists 01:35:20 that is portable ... but not what you want at all. 01:36:12 yeah, I thought that I had come up with something... but did not. 01:36:52 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5AF50C71.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:36:57 but that is what I ended up needing, so bob's your uncle ;) 01:37:55 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:38:25 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:41:37 how does touch work? 01:42:02 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:02 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:30 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@74.61.92.158] has quit [] 01:43:42 calls utime() 01:44:25 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:44:52 Tau [~Euler@186.194.51.6] has joined #lisp 01:45:17 hmm I can't figure out how to handle timouts on an accepted tcp connection with USOCKET. 01:46:12 Fare: btw, why do you do (load (merge-pathnames "test1.asd"))? 01:46:12 Basically I want to read a request, if it times out I want to close the connection. neither SOCKET-LISTEN nor SOCKET-ACCEPT provide arguments for setting up a timeout 01:46:24 why merge, that is 01:46:25 *Fare* replaces sleeping with touching the file in the past 01:46:40 you mean, why the load or why the merge-pathnames? 01:46:47 we load because it's NOT in your registry 01:46:50 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:59 merge-pathnames, I dunno, I removed it 01:47:14 good 01:51:01 tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 01:52:18 Fare: and (require 'sb-posix) still doesn't work 01:52:24 the same symptoms 01:53:37 (ASDF/SOURCE-REGISTRY:DEFAULT-SOURCE-REGISTRY) includes (:DIRECTORY #P"") 01:54:53 (asdf::default-directory )is "" 01:57:58 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:58:21 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:58:35 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:12 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host57.186-125-118.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:00:02 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:59 Fare: and that would be because of with-pathname-defaults, i assume 02:02:24 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:05:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:05:44 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:05:55 wakeup: SOCKET-CONNECT does have it, and looking at the source, it is different for every implementation. Probably for a good reason. On a listening socket, is WAIT-FOR-INPUT not enough? 02:06:05 damn, that's because it's changed to build/asdf.lisp, from tmp/asdf.lisp 02:06:08 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:35 I figured that tmp/ was a bad name for something that's going to stay 02:06:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:07:07 would the result of make on my side be different from your result? 02:07:15 can't you just commit asdf.lisp like it used to be 02:07:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:23 this make business makes me mad 02:07:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:10 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:34 stassats: in 2.26.72 there should be no more (default-directory) in the default source-registry, and (default-directory) should be #p"/" 02:10:02 as for moving asdf.lisp back -- well, it's now a generated file, so its place is not amongst source files anymore -- which also makes grepping more painful 02:10:20 I believe build/asdf.lisp is its definitive place. 02:10:50 -!- Tau [~Euler@186.194.51.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:11:32 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:11:37 well, only the touch test is failing now 02:11:57 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 02:15:25 and it looks like i'll be sticking to asdf pre-2.26.7 02:17:47 drewc: WAIT-FOR-INPUT would only help if it waited for EOF from the client. 02:18:17 psycode [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 02:20:06 accruing implementation parts into asdf seems like a losing strategy eventually 02:20:32 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 02:20:51 I am probably missing something, I am tired 02:22:49 well, what i can imagine, rewriting it from scratch, only supporting latest stable releases of implementations (maybe having something like asdf-backwards for staging changes for a release or two), working with implementors on fixing issues instead of #+ cancer 02:23:52 i guess that would include writing a charter on pathnames, which is compatible with clhs, but is unambiguous and adopted by implementations 02:24:01 because the current situation cannot go any much longer 02:26:07 things seem to be great with closer-mop, why can't the same be done with pathnames? 02:26:09 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:26:53 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:52 wakeup: handler-case/bind? 02:28:28 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:33:37 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:37 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 02:40:43 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:41:04 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:01 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:43:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:43:46 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:49 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:47:27 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:41 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:49:00 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:49:51 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:56:20 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-64-7.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:56:58 stassats: I would love improvement on PATHNAME, especially about NAMESTRING 02:57:14 who wouldn't 02:57:18 wakeup, s/improvement/replacement/ 02:57:43 it is a complicated matter though if you look at more than UNIX and windows 02:58:06 Fare: no improvement 02:58:15 who cares about not unix or windows? 02:58:38 I don't care about windows 02:58:55 still I would design pathnames to be UNIX agnostic 02:59:11 who cares about not (unix or windows)? 02:59:47 i think the first step should be getting all implementations to agree on how to interpret the standard 02:59:51 VMS people? 03:00:02 yes agree too 03:00:06 who cares about VMS people? 03:00:41 none of your business... that's the point 03:02:23 -!- jimlek22` [~user@209.119.38.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:02:35 i think it'd be relatively easy to get free implementations to agree with each other 03:02:38 except maybe clisp 03:02:44 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:04:20 iolib pathnames are great and all, but i don't think that everybody will jump at it at once 03:06:45 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.178.218.220] has joined #lisp 03:07:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:07:54 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:04 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-150-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:11:13 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:56 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:27 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:20:43 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has joined #lisp 03:22:57 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.178.218.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:24:01 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:27 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:26:45 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:57 -!- jeti [~user@p548EA2C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:27:09 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 03:30:12 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:11 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 03:34:59 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:42 seangrove [~user@70.42.240.21] has joined #lisp 03:37:04 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:25 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-72-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:37:42 -!- sw2wolf is now known as sw2wolf{away} 03:39:07 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:04 smccarthy [~smccarthy@ip98-177-168-164.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:20 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:46:37 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:57 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:23 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:50:59 looks like no implementation takes seriously type-checking for format directives parameters 03:52:27 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:35 (format t "~v|" 'a) on CCL outputs lots of ^L 03:54:37 (format t "~vf" 3.0 2) overflows the stack 04:00:38 -!- benny [~user@i577A149B.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:25 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has joined #lisp 04:03:06 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:03:52 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:38 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:30 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-181-191-53.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:10:23 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:09 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:54 getting there. It works for me on SBCL, CCL, ECL, GCL 2.6 (mostly) 04:14:58 2.26.72 04:17:30 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:18:41 -!- mason_ [~mason@212.91.105.175] has quit [Quit: mason_] 04:23:39 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:24:53 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:23 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-150-61.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:31 Fare: 36 passing and 5 failing, test-force.script test-module-excessive-depend.script test-static-and-serial.script test-touch-system-2.script test1.script 04:35:43 cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-88-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:35:48 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:06 37 passing and 4 failing on CCL 04:37:30 a different set, test-encodings.script test-force.script test-static-and-serial.script test1.script 04:38:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:40:32 meh. Some tests are now actually more unreliable because of timing-dependent changes I made using touch to avoid sleep. Meh. 04:41:04 -!- segmond__ is now known as segmond 04:41:11 test-encodings on ccl seems to be real 04:41:41 (STRING-CHAR-CODES "Î") evaluates to (206 357) (EXPECTED-CHAR-CODES ':DEFAULT) evaluates to (206 287) 04:42:09 weird. 04:42:47 it expects latin-3, but gets latin-2 04:43:06 which of the sub-tests is it (should print on top) 04:43:34 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:01 -!- smccarthy [~smccarthy@ip98-177-168-164.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:15 Test TEST-ENCODING-EXPLICIT-DEFAULT: should be DEFAULT 04:44:19 is it :test-encoding-explicit-default or :test-encoding-implicit-default ? 04:45:06 it's as if asdf-encodings had already been loaded before the test is run 04:45:37 there should be no latin2 possible at all before autodetection is enabled 04:46:11 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:47:12 ccl parses ;; -*- coding: -*- 04:47:14 itself 04:47:59 oh, it does? That sounds new to me. 04:48:10 it is new 04:48:25 oh well, then I shall disable this test for CCL 04:48:55 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:48:55 or is there a way to detect whether CCL has this capability? 04:49:59 that's cool, btw 04:50:23 -!- madwilliamflint [~madwillia@ool-44c19afe.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 04:51:44 not really, short of testing for the presence of new internal functions or checking the version 04:51:50 -!- seangrove [~user@70.42.240.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:02 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:14 ecl goes bonkers on null-termination somewhere 04:54:46 Fare: "Function # called with odd number of keyword arguments." on ECL 04:55:38 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 04:55:43 ; In an anonymous lambda form at position 442: In the call to TOUCH-FILE with arguments ("file1.lisp" DATE1), ; the variable portion of the argument list (DATE1) contains an odd number ; of arguments and so can't be used to initialize keyword parameters ; for the current global definition of TOUCH-FILE 04:55:50 and that's on ccl 04:57:07 i guess you forgot :timestamp 04:58:50 -!- psycode [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:58 Yup. Pushed a fix to that, but test1 is still unreliable here. 05:01:05 sometimes passes, sometimes not 05:01:07 checking 05:01:37 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.3.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:02:48 ecl keeps spewing ;;; Warning: Duplicate proclamation for NON-NEGATIVE-FLOAT-P 05:03:24 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:03:47 segmond_ [~segmond@99.150.135.178] has joined #lisp 05:06:33 -!- segmond [~segmond@99.102.150.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:07:07 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:09:08 ok, I wasn't touching test1.asd in that test, but in other tests 05:09:08 karswell [~user@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:09:19 segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-135-214.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:24 ecl: non-negative-float-p? Where is that from? 05:09:46 for all symbols of CL 05:09:53 each time a new test is run 05:10:12 which ecl is that? 05:10:17 git 05:10:21 from make test lisp=ecl ? 05:10:25 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:10:25 yes 05:10:32 I have a recent one, but let me update... 05:11:05 (recompiling ecl) 05:12:55 OK, test1.script should be fixed, now. 05:13:24 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@99.150.135.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:25 now test-force. Sigh. 05:15:40 Filesystem error with pathname "/home/stas/lisp/site/asdf/build/fasls/ecl-12.12.1-55b9e9dc-linux-x64/test^@". 05:15:50 ^@ being a null-character 05:16:17 I'm having some trouble with iolib. Receive-from is signalling EWOULDBLOCK whenever it's called. If i choose the "retry-syscall" restart, it works fine. Any clues? 05:16:34 i've found that (setf (logical-pathname-translations "HOME") `(("**;*.*.*" "~/**/*.*"))) then (truename "HOME:nonexistent;f") => Filesystem error with pathname "/home/stas/nonexistent^@". 05:16:38 now using the latest ECL from git 05:16:43 I don't see any error 05:17:07 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:08 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:17:44 off-by-one-too-many error? 05:19:02 it's the same with (truename "/tmp/f/f") 05:19:39 well, i don't that null-character is really related 05:19:42 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:52 to the test failing 05:20:03 I now get this error with logical pathnames 05:20:16 must be recent one; with an ECL from last month I didn't have that. 05:23:05 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:48 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:26:50 -!- cafaro [~tman@unaffiliated/cafaro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:31:04 Ugh. I'm having trouble with Drakma, Clisp, and non-ASCII pages. 05:31:29 I've been trying the suggestions on Drakma's page, but I'm beginning to believe the issue is with clisp 05:32:25 It keeps objecting that characters "cannot be represented in the character set CHARSET:ASCII", but so far my searching hasn't turned up any solutions -- anyone have any suggestions? 05:32:47 first, paste the code 05:33:14 I'm using the example code from http://www.weitz.de/drakma/#arg-external-format-out 05:33:20 Err, sorry -- just the base page. 05:33:35 which example? 05:33:40 attempting to pull the non-ascii digraphs 05:34:04 works fine 05:34:14 *** - SYSTEM::READ-EVAL-PRINT: Character #\u00E6 cannot be represented in the character set CHARSET:ASCII 05:34:17 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 05:34:28 configure your clisp to use unicode 05:34:49 *Oladon* goes off to figure out how to do that. 05:35:46 clisp -E/-L ? 05:35:56 -!- sw2wolf{away} is now known as sw2wolf 05:36:13 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:27 of course, truename can't be traced 05:36:57 backtrace says it's within visit-action 05:37:28 i have experience debugging ecl, i'm on it 05:38:44 stassats: everything I'm finding seems to indicate that clisp has unicode support by default 05:39:25 (since 2.31, and I'm running 2.48) 05:39:37 Fare: it's using string[length-1] = 0 to cut off the last /, which, of course, doesn't work with lisp 05:39:57 so, it's just an error reporting issue, the true issue is something else 05:40:07 :/ 05:40:54 there was a naked truename that I replaced by truename* and I'm getting a different error 05:40:56 aha 05:41:04 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:41:08 Oladon: have you tried changing LANG? 05:41:10 so it might be in builtin-system-p 05:41:35 stassats: I haven't. I found one reference that said to verify that it's C, which it is 05:41:42 which is wrong 05:41:45 Aha 05:41:55 well, unless you want ascii 05:42:08 which sounds suspiciously like what's happening. 05:43:19 OK, I have a fix. 05:43:44 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:43:50 i'll report a bug to ecl about leaking null-characters into the lisp-world 05:44:26 there we go with 2.26.73 05:44:56 Hmm, tried setting it to en_US.UTF-8 and re-running clisp, but still no dice 05:44:56 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:18 you can supply -E utf-8 to override it 05:45:21 stassats, who's using this evil C trick? 05:45:28 Fare: ecl 05:46:22 Huh. It works with that. 05:46:25 Thanks, stassats. 05:47:05 Oladon: or you could listen to sw2wolf right away and get the same result quicker 05:47:36 oops, had forgotten to include version bump in previous commit 05:47:49 stassats: I attempted clisp -E when he suggested it, which didn't work. I hadn't gotten back to looking up what it was supposed to do (in which case I'd've found the argument expected), since you were actively engaging. 05:48:00 Fare: can't you make that automatic with git? 05:48:58 make what? 05:49:19 oh, a pre-commit check that the version was bumped? 05:49:20 version bump 05:49:22 probably possible. 05:49:34 ls 05:50:53 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:50:56 ls: no such file or directory 05:51:49 :) 05:52:20 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:54:32 i somehow got into sbcl debugger when running tests with ccl 05:54:35 and ecl 05:55:20 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:24 Fare: sbcl --noinform --no-userinit --no-sysinit --load build/asdf.lisp --load test/script-support.lisp --eval '(asdf-test::exit-lisp 0)' 2>&1 | cmp - /dev/null that part 05:58:31 and makes sbcl mighty unhappy, lots of nested errors 05:59:23 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00:38 otherwise, 0 failures on ecl, ccl 06:00:54 with test-missing-lisp-file.script test-module-excessive-depend.script test-touch-system-2.script failing on SBCL 06:01:08 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:01:46 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:03:50 Fare: failed to find the TRUENAME of /home/stas/lisp/impl/sbcl/contrib/asdf/asdf-upstream/test/fileMissing.lisp 06:03:59 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:05:59 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@37-144-88-223.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:33 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:08:47 jack_rabbit: all file descriptors created by iolib are non-blocking 06:09:18 jack_rabbit: if you know what you're doing you can make it blocking 06:10:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-196-240.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:11:32 fe[nl]ix, It's alright. I solved the problem by using CL:read-line and format which don't throw errors. 06:11:37 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 06:11:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-157-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:12:58 Fare: i'm really not sure what | cmp - /dev/null is trying to achieve 06:15:28 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:19:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:20:25 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 06:20:47 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 06:21:43 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:12 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:23:06 juxovec [~juxovec@93.145.broadband11.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:23:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:24:19 compare output to no output 06:24:45 so we find any style-warnings or notes emitted by SBCL while loading asdf 06:24:57 we fail if there is any such output 06:26:20 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:27:57 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:27 sbcl is happy to me. 06:32:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:34:39 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.212.252.188] has left #lisp 06:40:19 I'm getting an error bordeaux-threads:make-thread is undefined, but I've loaded bordeaux-threads with quicklisp. How can I find out what's going wrong? 06:42:29 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:00 how did you load it? Did that happen w/o error? Can you (find-package :bordeaux-threads)? 06:43:58 I loaded it with (ql:quickload) without error. find-package returns a package object. 06:44:10 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-209-189.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:11 # 06:47:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:48:12 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@93.145.broadband11.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:50:33 Fare, Strange. My bordeaux-threads must've become corrupted. I just purged the quicklisp package and recompiled and it works now. 06:56:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-209-189.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:57:02 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-210-70.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:52 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 07:01:38 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:27 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:02:37 jack_rabbit: usually, i can solve that problem by a full recompile 07:03:06 jack_rabbit: (i.e. i have the same problem sometimes) 07:03:20 strange. Do you have any idea why that happens? 07:03:53 cmm- [~cmm@109.64.211.54] has joined #lisp 07:04:08 no. my guess is that there is something broken in the bordeaux-thread .asd file, but i'm always in a rush when i see it and i don't know how to reproduce it 07:04:18 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:05:49 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:05:56 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-210-70.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:07:16 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:08:15 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-157-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:08:27 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:08:32 hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:09:40 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:18 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:13:22 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:13:23 oh, lovely: the bordeaux-threads defsystem uses this inline-method feature that I want to get rid of 07:14:12 it doesn't look like it has anything particularly broken to it, apart from that 07:14:57 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 07:17:22 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.223] has joined #lisp 07:17:51 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:20:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:22:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-156-148.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:57 browndawg1 [~browndawg@117.201.177.45] has joined #lisp 07:30:51 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:32:06 what is the inline-method feature? 07:32:12 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:43 the way the definition for test-op is right there in the defsystem form 07:33:54 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:33:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:33:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:36:17 I see. How might that break the package? 07:36:45 I don't think it's related to your problem, Fare just doesn't like that part of asdf. 07:36:50 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 07:38:10 gotcha. 07:39:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-7-208.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 07:43:22 -!- browndawg1 [~browndawg@117.201.177.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:44:13 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:44:25 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.177.45] has joined #lisp 07:45:47 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-130-194-155-36.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:45:57 not related indeed 07:46:54 nikodem [~mikey@user-109-243-31-73.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:47:01 pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:48:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:50:24 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 07:52:45 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:53:38 agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:00 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 07:56:03 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:58:15 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 07:59:32 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:04:39 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:04:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:05:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:06:20 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:06:41 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:09:20 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:09:20 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:09:20 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:09:43 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:09:53 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:10:01 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@141.76.92.5] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 08:10:12 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 08:10:44 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010c45.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:55 trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has joined #lisp 08:11:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.91.1] 08:11:47 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:12:02 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:12:55 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 08:13:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:14:49 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 08:15:23 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.243.90] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 08:19:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:20:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:21:19 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 08:22:36 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.117] has joined #lisp 08:26:28 -!- ASau [~user@176.0.64.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:28:18 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 08:30:33 nostoi [~nostoi@37.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:29 Anyone have enough experience with hunchentoot to help me determine why I can't seem to dispatch anything? 08:31:35 ehu [~ehu@109.35.189.20] has joined #lisp 08:34:50 negaduck [~negaduck@91.206.116.254] has joined #lisp 08:36:41 huh. paste.lisp.org is down. 08:36:56 eh. I'll tackle this problem tomorrow. 08:37:39 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-24-13-250-216.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:12 I sense the Java programmers behind this 08:38:32 ehu` [~ehu@31.138.245.114] has joined #lisp 08:39:16 in haskell i found a functions called scanr and scanl, they are like folds, but they collect intermediate accumulator states. I know how to write scan func using fold, i'm just curious, is there a standard scan function in common lisp? I cant find it myself. 08:40:32 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.189.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:41:58 I'm not aware of one 08:42:16 in cl, you'd probably write a loop of some kind instead of folding/scanning 08:42:46 that would be the more canonical style (: 08:44:07 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 08:44:11 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@37.Red-79-155-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:44:49 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.23.83.132] has joined #lisp 08:44:49 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:56 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 08:45:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:28 reduce with a closure 08:45:39 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:46:26 (let ((accumulator-state nil)) (reduce #'(lambda (x) (frob-with-x x accumulator-state)) arg) 08:49:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:50:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:50:31 so REDUCE is implemented using LOOP? 08:51:13 no reduce is builtin and can be implemented any way the implementation sees fit 08:58:26 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:59:34 OK. I need to standardize a name for this function: 08:59:52 (defun call (package name &rest args) (apply (find-symbol* name package) args)) 08:59:58 call-symbol ? 09:00:19 symbol-call ? 09:00:23 symcall ? 09:01:18 ubii_ [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 09:01:50 call-in 09:01:58 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:20 why -in ? 09:04:37 (call-in package symbol args) 09:04:42 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:04:53 not bad 09:04:53 -!- ubii_ is now known as ubii 09:04:54 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 09:04:59 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:05:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:05:14 but a bit too clever 09:05:16 with just call I'd wonder what the difference with funcall was 09:05:26 yeah, call is too short 09:05:32 symbol-call is meh 09:05:36 call-in-package 09:05:39 then 09:05:50 yeah, a bit too long, but acceptable 09:05:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:06:23 although it also sounds like I may be binding *package* around a call 09:08:28 what if the function expects symbols from package as its args? 09:09:14 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:20 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 09:10:32 hi 09:12:07 zolk3ri: I see you fled not good. 09:13:12 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0025a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:39 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:14:00 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 09:14:23 what would you do if you wanted: something as much like a list as possible, except synced with a file (so destructive operations on the list affect the file)? 09:15:33 kanru`` [~kanru@217.243.168.51] has joined #lisp 09:18:08 Keshi, have fun. 09:18:54 zolk3ri: Stop the off-topic chat. 09:22:08 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pzjibyrnewrghcta] has joined #lisp 09:22:27 przl [~przlrkt@p54BD3B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:50 Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has joined #lisp 09:23:55 zolk3ri: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING? STOP FUCKING SPAMMING MY CHANNEL. I DONT KNOW FUCKING LISP, I DONT WANT TO JOIN THIS FUCKING CHANNEL. 09:23:58 zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:24:25 zolk3ri1: WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING? STOP FUCKING SPAMMING MY CHANNEL. I DONT KNOW FUCKING LISP, I DONT WANT TO JOIN THIS FUCKING CHANNEL. 09:24:31 wtf 09:24:39 zolk3ri1: I ONLY JOINED TO FUCKING SHOUT AT YOU AND TELL YOU TO FUCKING STOP. 09:24:42 Keshi, stop dude. 09:25:53 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.102.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-90.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:26:03 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-157-228.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:56 zolk3ri1: Seriously, FUCKING STOP IT NOW. 09:27:04 ue uses too many capital letters, it seems 09:27:23 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:27:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-149.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:27:39 Ue, stop what? 09:27:58 zolk3ri1: FUCKING SPAMMING ME, YOU STUPID FUCK. 09:28:01 I'm going to get dressed now, brb. 09:28:16 kids these days 09:31:22 zolk3ri1: You FUCKING DICKHEAD, we FUCKING BANNED your IP. Try FUCKING SPAMMING ME now. You STUPID FUCKHEAD. 09:31:25 myx [~myx@pppoe-211-174-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 09:32:15 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-63-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:34:25 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.177.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:34:57 benny [~user@i577A8876.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:38 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:35:53 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:38:09 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.173.83] has joined #lisp 09:42:14 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:20 mhhh what is going on here ? 09:43:43 galdor: prxq invited all his friends to come here and discuss whatever 09:44:14 delightful 09:45:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:45:11 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:32 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote 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[anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 14:08:59 hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:30 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:42 -!- borodust [pauk@stdev.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:09 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:35 has anyone used commonqt ? 14:13:27 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:09 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E77B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:19:38 borodust [pauk@stdev.org] has joined #lisp 14:22:54 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 14:24:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:28:15 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:30:03 -!- vlion [~user@75.87.250.229] has left #lisp 14:30:27 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:31:49 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 14:33:56 -!- hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:34:58 me 14:35:05 just once for testing..... 14:35:14 it works 14:35:24 can questions about emacs lisp go here ? 14:35:36 but i think it's not bug-free....... 14:35:40 Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:56 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:00 elkng: no, use #emacs 14:36:02 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pzjibyrnewrghcta] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:36:25 H4ns: why ? isnt that channel for wide range of lisps of all kind ? 14:36:33 because there are many lisps 14:36:37 elkng: no. look at the topic. this channel is about common lisp. 14:36:47 elkng: other lisps have their own channels 14:37:01 elkng: also, http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/2013/01/common-lisp-is-just-lisp.html 14:37:06 #scheme , #emacs.... 14:37:40 elkng: you will get better help on elisp at #emacs 14:37:52 elkng should ##c be for all the languages with C-like syntax? 14:38:19 hmm 14:38:22 so 14:38:23 about commonqt 14:39:06 anonus: i had the feeling that some of the window content updating was not working correctly.... 14:39:20 after i'm loading url into webview - sbcl dies instantaneous with SIGSEGV and ccl dies after (quit) 14:39:27 anonus: the display got out of sync a few times here, dunno what the cause was.... 14:40:13 http://sprunge.us/ZUAd?cl - code 14:41:21 backtrace from core show something deep inside sbcl's (or ccl's) signal processing, so maybe someone tell at least how to figure out where it got segfault ? 14:42:27 can ldb help with that ? 14:42:46 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.3.252] has joined #lisp 14:44:51 anonus: i've never used ldb, but often, if you read the full stack trace, there are hints. The exact final crash is not likely to be too enlightening, imo. 14:45:00 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.173.19] has joined #lisp 14:45:19 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:45:29 anonus: for example - were there callbacks involved? These should appear in the backtrace. 14:45:48 -!- Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:15 lemme check 14:48:46 whole backtrace is ??, even i've compiled sbcl with debug 14:49:11 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:49:28 -!- borodust [pauk@stdev.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:38 i think it inside some *.S files 14:53:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:53:04 can you paste it? 14:54:34 segv- [~mb@dslb-092-078-126-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:46 http://sprunge.us/CRYK 14:55:00 seems i've compiled sbcl wrong way 14:55:05 14:55:29 also, you should remompile everything, also the lisp code. 14:59:08 Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:44 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 15:04:28 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.240] has joined #lisp 15:07:45 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09:23 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:10:00 stopbit [~stopbit@static-108-48-124-82.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:56 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-092-078-126-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:03 segv- [~mb@dslb-092-078-126-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:37 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:30 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.219.85] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 -!- negaduck [~negaduck@91.206.116.254] has quit [Quit: negaduck] 15:15:49 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:16:31 Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has joined #lisp 15:17:27 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.179.117] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 15:18:45 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:38 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:42 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:29 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:17 prxq: f**k sbcl, here backtrace for ccl 15:30:19 http://sprunge.us/KIVh 15:30:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 15:31:04 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:34 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-150-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:31:51 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:01 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 15:32:38 anonus: sbcl dies in webview because it uses callbacks from foreign threads 15:33:01 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:33:16 then why it dies _only_ in webview ? 15:33:26 "because it uses callbacks from foreign threads" 15:33:37 only webview ? 15:33:49 "because it uses callbacks from foreign threads" 15:33:59 err 15:34:03 and it's not only, (#_new QFileDialog) 15:34:30 if you compile SBCL with some options, it can handle such callbacks 15:35:12 and can you suggest what options ? 15:35:28 also why then ccl dies too (but at quit) 15:36:10 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.118.207] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:36:20 -!- Trystam is now known as Tristam 15:36:31 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.118.207] has joined #lisp 15:36:57 that's because webkit adds cleanup routines when the thread it was run from is destroyed, which then calls some callbacks, but since the lisp-side thread information is already cleaned up, the callbacks fails 15:36:59 happens with sbcl too 15:37:09 Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:37:45 -!- timau [~timau@31.45.214.39] has quit [Quit: timau] 15:37:54 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:00 anonus: :sb-thruption :sb-safepoint :sb-wtimer 15:38:06 wow 15:38:15 all of them together to get foreign callbacks 15:38:36 lichtblau: any chance you'll commit those pthread_join changes? 15:38:41 and do you have an idea how to fix it in ccl ? 15:39:26 it can be fixed by commonqt not calling such callbacks into lisp 15:39:31 they are not really used currently 15:39:32 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:39:58 i mean, the information they provide is not used 15:39:58 hmm 15:40:07 leesp 15:40:32 and lisp are pronounced the same ? 15:41:16 but i haven't reported it to ccl guys, maybe they'll know a good way to fix it 15:41:21 stassats`: i'm not familiar with qt, so can you point out exactly where can i read about/find this callbacks? 15:41:40 why do you need to? it's in the source code 15:42:13 i want to fix it in common qt then, because it unmaintained 15:42:26 it is? 15:42:44 *stassats`* looks in the mirror 15:42:46 last commit was severial months ago 15:42:55 if i'm looking at right repo 15:43:25 November 26 2012 15:43:36 https://gitorious.org/commonqt 15:43:41 i'm the maintainer and i can assure that it is maintained 15:43:53 "six weeks" == "several months"? 15:43:56 :D oh, ok then 15:43:58 b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:23 i'm not noticed it 15:44:34 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:48 if you have any bugs in commonqt, i'll be happy to fix them, but bugs in implementations or in qt, or webkit are not easy to fix 15:45:27 ok 15:46:09 maybe you can provide me an information what to tell to ccl's developers about fix for that ? 15:46:11 Is it ok to use a constant for a dynamic value? For example I like to read a number from stdin, that won't be changed during the execution of my lisp program, like this: (defconstant +n+ (read)) 15:46:25 negaduck [~negaduck@83.149.8.140] has joined #lisp 15:46:34 _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has joined #lisp 15:46:34 anonus: i'll do that myself 15:46:44 ok then, thanks 15:47:00 cafaro: no, that's a bad idea 15:47:09 hello, is there a tool to read xml xsd files to generate lisp object system which can be used to generate the xml? 15:47:15 stassats`: ok 15:47:32 -!- prip [~foo@host68-242-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:49:17 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:49:18 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:50:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:50:15 zolk3ri1 [~Zol1ka@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.237.91] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.118.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:11 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 15:52:53 -!- negaduck [~negaduck@83.149.8.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:53:22 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:53:42 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:52 kilon_alios [~kilon@188.4.23.132.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:53:54 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:27 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:54:34 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.212] has joined #lisp 15:55:32 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:55:41 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:42 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:18 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:59:21 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:48 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 15:59:48 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 15:59:49 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 15:59:52 -!- Ue [~Ue@gateway/tor-sasl/ue] has quit [Quit: ] 15:59:56 Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has joined #lisp 16:00:19 prip [~foo@host216-190-dynamic.20-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:01:18 mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has joined #lisp 16:04:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-58.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:06:18 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:06:37 -!- kanru`` [~kanru@217.243.168.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:03 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:30 anonus: there http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/1052 , if you're interested 16:08:31 Hi friends. I have a non-adjustable vector V, and I want to make an adjustable vector, with a fill pointer, with the same contents. Is there a terse way? 16:08:44 I struck out with adjust-array, but maybe I'm missing something. 16:10:01 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:10:18 Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:11:21 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-dyzjxpjxfnsjneci] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:26 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:11:28 -!- b_ [~b@cpc14-acto3-2-0-cust114.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:47 only (let ((new-array (make-array (array-dimensions array) :fill-pointer t :adjustable t))) (replace (make-array (array-total-size new-array) :displaced-to new-array) (make-array (array-total-size new-array) :displaced-to array))) comes to mind 16:12:24 (let ((x (make-array 5 :adjustable t :fill-pointer t :displaced-to *x*))) (vector-push-extend 1 x) x) ; I'm sure I'm missing something 16:13:05 Oh, it doesn't have to mirror the old one! 16:13:15 Just a one-time thing. 16:13:58 -!- werwerwer [~1@158.181.198.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:14:35 Xach: I'd :initial-contents it up. 16:14:36 ah, oh. stassats, a fill-pointer implies a single dimension. 16:15:09 well, it's future-complete, when you won't need a fill-pointer! 16:15:17 "vector" implies a single dimension, too... 16:15:38 pkhuong: thanks. for some reason i thought the initial-contents had to be a list. 16:15:55 *Xach* sees now that it says "sequence" 16:16:20 woo extensible sequences 16:16:33 Xach: but i thought :initial-contents was too obvious and the only reason you didn't use was because multi-dimensional arrays 16:16:57 stassats: no, it was a blind spot. i thought (coerce existing 'list) would be wasteful. 16:16:58 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:17:23 well, if it weren't supported, there's REPLACE 16:17:23 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:36 werwerwer [~1@158.181.202.180] has joined #lisp 16:18:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:19:36 Xof: That is neat. Does that always work? 16:19:50 I have no idea 16:20:06 Once, I was a Lisp programmer 16:20:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-20-58.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:21:09 Xach: looks like it 16:21:12 clhs ajdust-array 16:21:12 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for ajdust-array. 16:21:12 negaduck [~negaduck@213.141.130.13] has joined #lisp 16:21:17 clhs a-a 16:21:17 adjust-array: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_adjust.htm 16:21:26 see "A is displaced to B before the call, but not displaced afterward." 16:21:36 -!- _d3f [~freedo@nl2.ovpn.to] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 16:22:45 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:03 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.173.19] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:23:21 stassats: Does that apply to Xof's make-array too? 16:23:37 sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:58 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@94.137.60.179] has joined #lisp 16:24:02 vector-push-extend is calling adjust-array, so i'd say yes 16:24:06 Tau [~Euler@186.194.51.29] has joined #lisp 16:24:42 ahhh ok, thanks. 16:24:59 I missed that it was vector-push-extend "breaking" the displacement. 16:25:17 Thanks, Xof & stassats. 16:25:37 and it's the case on all implementations 16:27:11 &pkhung 16:27:13 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.237.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27:14 err, pkhuong 16:27:15 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:21 Xach: May I request this into quicklisp? :) https://github.com/Kalimehtar/advanced-readtable 16:27:39 I'm surprised it's not widely known. 16:27:51 ... was until I noticed it's only a month old. 16:28:18 naryl: thanks, but already pending 16:28:45 chitofan [dcff0281@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.255.2.129] has joined #lisp 16:29:01 Thanks. 16:29:54 i have a little difficulty understanding how lambda works in this snippet of code http://paste.lisp.org/display/134564 16:29:55 It deprecates package-local-nicknames and is implemented in ANSI CL. 16:30:07 the outermost lambda takes node1 as an argument 16:30:10 With no implementation-specific hacks. 16:30:18 which isnt an argument in the function being defined.. 16:30:24 where does node1 come from? 16:31:50 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:13 chitofan: mapcar maps through the result of remove-duplicates to supply arguments to the lambda function. 16:32:26 LAMBDA is not a function 16:32:32 (lambda (x) (* x 2)) produces a function that accepts an argument and returns it multiplied by two. 16:32:57 i can see i have a lot to learn 16:32:58 lol 16:32:59 it's a special form used to produce functions, so it itself introduces variables 16:33:05 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.175.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33:24 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:33:43 naryl: yeah... It also fills the readtable with entries for many characters. Which, while usually good enough, will fail on non-ascii characters. 16:33:46 it's like edges-list in defun 16:34:24 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:34:45 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:35:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:36:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BD3B79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:37:10 btw 16:37:26 stassats: have you tried to run commonqt at arm ? 16:38:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:05 the only arm hardware i have runs android 16:38:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:38:25 anonus: iirc, it crawls on CCL/ARM (an N900). 16:38:57 cool 16:39:22 otherwise, if you have a full gcc toolchain, i don't see any reason why it wouldn't run 16:39:50 pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:39:55 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 16:40:30 i'm sorry, i still don't understand 16:40:31 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.60.179] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:40:51 direct-edges requires 2 arguments, node1 16:40:53 and another 16:40:55 ok, i'll try it soon 16:41:03 oh, damn 16:41:04 node1 is still not supplied from anywhere i know 16:41:18 i'll try it after ccl is fixed for webview 16:41:22 (mapcar (lambda (x) (* x 2)) '(1 2 3 4)) do you understand? 16:41:43 anonus: webview works well on ccl, just don't close it 16:41:43 yup.. 16:41:49 anonus: might take a while. 16:42:08 lol, ok 16:42:58 also after recompiling sbcl with flags you gave me sbcl now displays a lot of CORRUPTION WARNINGS 16:43:02 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:09 delete all the fasls 16:43:14 already 16:43:26 and slime fasls? 16:43:27 didn't helped 16:43:28 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 16:43:45 i've deleted all it's installation dir and ~/.cache completely 16:44:01 slime fasls are in ~/.slime/ 16:44:32 nope, didn't helped 16:44:52 do you use a custom core? 16:44:59 nope 16:45:05 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 16:45:30 oh, sorry, false alarm 16:45:39 i've deleted asdf fasl inside quicklisp dir 16:46:06 stassats, you apply the function to the list, but in my code, i dont understand how you apply the function to the output of direct-edges because i don't know how direct-edges provides an output with node1 there.. 16:46:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 16:46:47 what is "output"? 16:47:08 and do you understand (mapcar (lambda (x) (* x 2)) (mapcar #'log '(1 2 3 4))) then? 16:47:31 now sbcl just said that callback called from non-lisp thread and got down to ldb 16:48:00 how did you build sbcl? 16:48:10 gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 16:48:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:48:31 ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:36 created a customize-target-features.lisp and then called make.sh and then install.sh with custom sbcl_root 16:48:51 paste the contents of customize-target-features 16:49:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:49:09 moment 16:49:14 http://sprunge.us/JSjH?cl 16:49:32 yup i can understand nested mapcar functions if its not too difficult 16:49:38 *anonus* took this from gentoo ebuild 16:49:44 but direct-edges should return a list as an output 16:49:48 tfb [~tfb@92.41.54.171.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:49:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:49:56 and i don't understand how it can do so if node1 is not specified 16:49:58 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:17 what is this output you're talking about? 16:50:34 direct-edges is supposed to return a list 16:50:40 that's better 16:51:03 have i forgot anything ? 16:51:10 chitofan: and what do you mean "not specified"? 16:51:17 anonus: are you on non-x86? 16:51:28 x86_64 now 16:51:44 and not on linux? 16:51:51 unfortunately there is no sbcl for arm 16:51:55 linux 16:52:02 gentoo and debian 16:52:08 (tried on both) 16:52:22 i'm not sure how to say what i'm thinking.. 16:53:08 anonus: is that with HEAD? 16:53:16 pjb: why that link to Asimov's work? :) 16:53:16 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:29 chitofan: so, do you understand (mapcar (lambda (x) (mapcar (lambda (y) (cons x y)) '(1 2 3 4))) '(1 2 3 4)) ? 16:53:33 take a droid and .. kill him softly! ^^ 16:54:02 pkhuong: ? 16:54:07 what HEAD ? 16:54:10 sbcl 16:54:16 oh 16:54:18 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 16:54:19 sbcl-1.1.0 16:54:24 now, that's too old 16:54:31 i know 16:54:32 try 1.3.0 16:54:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:54:36 errr 16:54:38 1.1.3 16:54:49 how about 1.1.2 ? 16:54:53 nope 16:54:54 (it has ebuild for it) 16:55:01 agumonkey [~agu@211.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:38 1.1.3 has some important features to run commonqt ? 16:55:56 anonus: yes, foreign callbacks. 16:56:00 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Greensleeves...] 16:56:06 ok, understand 16:56:12 cool 16:56:12 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:38 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:46 stassats im afraid that one has me a little confused 16:56:53 good 16:57:13 btw is there plans for sbcl on arm ? 16:57:14 so, the x in the inner lambda comes from the outer lambda 16:57:16 *are 16:57:27 it's called a closure 16:57:37 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:40 anonus: yes. 16:57:53 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 16:58:01 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:25 chitofan: (let ((x 10)) (lambda () x)) 16:58:37 cool 16:59:10 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pynasoqutiezdqfd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:59:23 x inside lambda is a free variable, it's not bound by lambda or anything else inside it, so it's taken from the outer environment 16:59:36 stassats, is there some way where i can see the code executing step by step? 16:59:42 i think that would hlep me understand better 16:59:52 nope 17:00:10 well, you can implement a lisp interpreter 17:00:34 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 17:00:48 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:01:38 the book im learning from introduces closures at chapter 15 17:01:51 but this code is at chapter 8 17:01:52 :((( 17:02:01 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:22 minion: PCL? 17:02:22 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 17:02:34 closures in the chapter 6! 17:02:48 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 17:03:45 stassats: now sbcl said to me "GC invariant lost, file "thread.c", line 299" 17:03:48 and ldb 17:04:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:40 1.1.3 17:04:41 ed_g [~quassel@75-164-195-17.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:05:39 anonus: you need this patch: https://gitorious.org/~lichteblau/sbcl/david-sbcl-misc/commit/4a1ebbc79d04eb9546e23d520ec11b63d74adb34 17:06:35 -!- ed_g [~quassel@75-164-195-17.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:07:02 ed_g [~quassel@75-164-195-17.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:55 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09:23 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:11:35 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:24 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:05 so cool 17:16:26 now i'm getting FLOATING-POINT-INVALID-OPERATION 17:17:12 anonus: you need (sb-int:with-float-traps-masked (:invalid :divide-by-zero) ...) 17:18:22 and why there somewhere is divide by zero ? 17:18:38 just flags are not cleared 17:18:40 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:18:51 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:55 cool 17:18:57 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-211-174-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:02 now i'm getting SB-KERNEL::BINDING-STACK-EXHAUSTED 17:19:31 you can't run webkit from the initial thread in sbcl 17:19:58 omfg 17:20:26 i need to do (#_exec *qapp*) in another thread ? 17:20:35 the whole thing in another thread 17:20:37 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:21:53 milosn [~milosn@user-5AF506E2.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:12 -!- ehu` [~ehu@31.138.245.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:45 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5AF502F5.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:24:13 anonus: Don't forget to document each hack when you're done. :D 17:24:40 oh god, finally it works 17:24:48 just don't try to close it 17:25:14 fuck 17:25:20 ha-ha 17:25:27 GC invariant lost, file "thread.c", line 302 17:25:33 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:41 yeah, that's the same thing as in ccl 17:25:53 well, only ABCL doesn't do that 17:26:03 but commonqt is slow as hell on abcl 17:26:30 stassats: what is the main difficulty with qt bindings for lisp? 17:26:43 with qt, no difficulties 17:26:53 the above are all qt-webkit difficulties 17:27:10 i see. callback issues? 17:27:28 it has its own GC, does some weird thread cleanup routines 17:27:32 prxq: two GCs in the same process, looks like. 17:28:00 uh, ok. 17:28:22 so this issue now not linked with callbacks in foreign threads ? 17:28:33 well, two GCs problem is because the webkit doesn't know that SBCL has the stack in a non-standard place 17:28:51 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.27.11.211] has joined #lisp 17:29:06 only for the initial thread, not for new threads 17:29:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:37 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29:53 anonus: it is, but not as directly as previously 17:29:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:29:54 somewhere burried deep in my code, i write a tree of conses, strings and numbers to a string for logging purposes. i reach the error "kind" cannot be printed readably. however, if i print the tree, copy-paste it manually, and print it with print-to-string, then it does work. if i copy-tree the tree, i can't print it. what would make it so that a string cannot be printed readably? 17:30:01 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:30:26 simple-base-string cannot be printed readably on sbcl 17:30:34 strings with fill-pointers or adjustable 17:30:37 hah 17:30:46 anonus: but now you can have file choosing dialogs ;) 17:30:47 findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 17:30:51 it's a simple-base-string 17:31:39 anonus: i can later give you a commonqt branch which doesn't have such a problem 17:32:05 stassats: that surprises me somewhat. is there a recommended way to make sbcl print the string? 17:32:05 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 17:32:19 (preferably without me walking the tree) 17:32:26 don't set *print-readably* to t 17:33:16 but i want to print it readably, i just don't necessarily care that sbcl will read it as a simple-base-string again. i don't want nonsense to be printed. 17:33:46 hmm, print-object might work 17:33:53 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 stassats: i'll be very grateful, thanks 17:34:38 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:03 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:25 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:35:41 no, print-object won't work 17:36:02 besides *print-readably* doesn't magically make unreadable things readable 17:36:46 stassats: i know, but i want the error to occur when other unreadable things are printed. i don't want objects to be thrown on the stream 17:36:53 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:37:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:07 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:39 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-109-243-31-73.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:41:55 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:40 anonus: there's also https://github.com/stassats/cl-qt-web-browser 17:44:32 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 17:45:20 -!- negaduck [~negaduck@213.141.130.13] has quit [Quit: negaduck] 17:45:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:46:04 anonus: and here's that branch https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/tree/override-on-cpp-side 17:46:27 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:46:27 wccoder [~wccoder@unaffiliated/wccoder] has joined #lisp 17:46:50 is there a type of string that can be printed readably? 17:47:07 in sbcl i mean 17:47:09 the one you read 17:47:11 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47:21 simple-string 17:47:29 ah darn. 17:47:31 (but not simple-base-string) 17:47:41 only simple-string 17:47:47 a more explicit message could have been welcome 17:47:48 gonzojive [~red@c-76-21-0-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:52 s/could/would/ 17:48:11 madnificent: well, i guess you can just go through the tree and convert every string to simple-string 17:48:22 madnificent: a less cryptic error, you mean? 17:50:20 ASau [~user@46.115.44.204] has joined #lisp 17:50:46 prxq: it's not that cryptic. it says "kind" could not be printed readably. that's ok. but i really didn't expect simple-base-strings not to be able to be printed readably. so if the error was "Cannot print objects of type simple-base-string readably, \"kind\" is of type simple-base-string". then i'd still be surprised, but i'd probably have noticed :) 17:51:12 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@unaffiliated/wccoder] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:51:49 wccoder [~wccoder@unaffiliated/wccoder] has joined #lisp 17:52:55 i'm not really sure how to handle with-float-traps-masked with commonqt in a centralized way 17:53:25 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:53:30 if i put it around all ffi calls, then things like call backs will inherit them and (/ 1 0.0) will not signal errors 17:53:39 so i would need to restored them inside callbacks 17:55:00 <|3b|`> naryl: if you mean my 'package-local-nicknames', that advanced-readtables doesn't replace it, since it gets the nicknames wrong 17:55:34 <|3b|`> naryl: local nicknames should always override real package names, otherwise code breaks randomly when you load other things 17:55:36 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 17:56:33 <|3b|> naryl: actually, maybe i was reading the wrong part, and it is OK 17:56:48 *|3b|* can't actually tell how it is supposed to work 17:58:02 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:58:04 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.54.171.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:58:30 <|3b|> doesn't look like it extends defpackage syntax though, so not a complete replacement either way 18:00:51 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.246] has joined #lisp 18:00:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:00:51 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:30 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-155-190.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:33 hi all 18:01:43 *wakeup* fails at USOCKET... 18:01:56 how do I get an input stream? 18:02:09 if I accepted a connection? 18:02:28 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:52 For the love of god i don't get the api 18:03:23 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:24 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:04:23 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 18:05:03 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.27.11.211] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 18:05:17 wakeup: you can try iolib.sockets instead of usocket; if you're going to want to switch to anything fancy like non-blocking sockets it will be easier in the long run anyway 18:06:13 hm, can't i just clean fp flags in cpp? 18:06:33 -!- chitofan [dcff0281@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.255.2.129] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:07:25 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 18:08:00 wakeup: usocket:socket-stream is what I used 18:09:15 it is usable for both input and output 18:12:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:13:00 Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 -!- mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:32 mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has joined #lisp 18:13:39 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 18:15:50 ah I just had the wrong element-type 18:15:59 ed_g: do you know how to handle timeouts? 18:17:55 wakeup: I ended up using threads and blocking io 18:18:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:19:01 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 18:19:54 wait-for-input may be what you need. wait on the socket, then convert to stream and read 18:20:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-211-25.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:21:33 I found the usocket source code easier to read than their docs :-) 18:21:41 mathrick [~mathrick@176.97.27.149] has joined #lisp 18:22:28 the docs are crazy 18:22:48 I can read now, but only after the connection is closed 18:22:51 ed_g: I find that to be true for about half of all lisp libraries I use 18:23:02 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.247] has joined #lisp 18:23:12 it's easier to read something that exists 18:23:23 stassats: and is up to date 18:23:24 jpl-queues was a nice experience 18:26:31 maybe I sould switch to iolib, seems better documented 18:26:56 sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 wakeup: FYI iolib's docs are incomplete, but well documented for the basic socket stuff 18:28:19 negaduck [~negaduck@83.149.8.132] has joined #lisp 18:29:04 on the other hand, lots of stuff uses USOCKET, so it should work.... 18:29:28 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.240] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:29:42 gonna read the source of TOOT 18:29:50 see what he does 18:31:04 anonus: i've just committed to that branch changes so that you no longer need to call with-float-traps-masked 18:32:39 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.246] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 18:33:12 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:16 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:34:11 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:35:43 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:36:44 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-234.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:37:36 -!- vityok [~user@193.109.118.129] has left #lisp 18:37:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:38:29 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:41 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-130-65.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:24 jeti [~user@p548EA2C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:49 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:54 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:41:50 and this doesn't seem to impact performance significantly 18:42:03 later i'll experiment with doing this on the cpp side 18:44:02 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 18:44:29 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 18:44:33 Greetings lispers 18:44:43 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:19 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:48:26 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:50:15 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:53:16 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:53:54 ed_g_ [~quassel@71-222-73-57.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:16 -!- ed_g [~quassel@75-164-195-17.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:56:36 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.0.99] has joined #lisp 18:59:10 pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:59:48 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@65.171.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:00:49 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:02:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 -!- sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:05:26 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-94-137.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:05:35 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.0.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:08:00 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:30 -!- zvrba [96456@diamant.ifi.uio.no] has left #lisp 19:08:41 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:08:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-7-208.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:19 -!- ngz [~user@102.188.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:09:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:10:17 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:27 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:59 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 19:14:30 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:30 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:16:55 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Greensleeves...] 19:18:07 stassats: thanks! 19:18:14 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:18:19 -!- mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:03 luqui [~luqui@63-227-115-141.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:23 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.26] has joined #lisp 19:21:45 that branch will eventually end up in the upstream, i'm still testing it 19:21:53 (the fact that i'm the only one testing doesn't help) 19:23:30 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:34 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:26:41 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:27:29 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 19:30:33 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:30:47 iLogical_ [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:35:07 findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 19:36:31 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:11 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.164.254] has joined #lisp 19:37:12 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 19:38:41 -!- negaduck [~negaduck@83.149.8.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:39:21 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:39:41 hi. so recently i heard about this thing called "greenspun's tenth rule of programming" which states "Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp." but i don't agree because programs look more concise to me in common lisp so what makes greenspun think c and fortran do a better job than cl? 19:39:47 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39:51 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:40:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:40:08 I think you're misreading Greenspun. 19:40:16 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:18 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 19:40:20 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:41:06 narmi: it takes a lot of C code to make a informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of common lisp. And then your program is slower buggier and hard to modify than if you had written it in common lisp 19:42:02 aaahhhh 19:42:12 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.247] has joined #lisp 19:42:14 so the rule is in favour of common lisp... 19:42:21 sorry 19:42:25 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:42:30 i didn't read it properly 19:42:37 dunno what i read contains as 19:42:53 kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:00 anonus: and there already seems to be a fix for ccl: http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/1052#comment:1 19:45:20 anonus: although the branch i linked you is not affect by that issue 19:46:10 what exactly does he mean by 'half of common lisp'? 19:46:25 it's a joke, don't take it too seriously 19:46:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:46:46 i'm not, i just want to know what it means 19:46:48 well, firstly i'll try to patch ccl just to make sure 19:47:36 anonus: i would think that it'll land into the trunk soon 19:48:27 glad to hear 19:48:51 do you have any other commonqt programs? 19:49:02 anyways i think fix for ccl/sbcl is more "right" way to fight this issue 19:49:04 no 19:49:18 -!- drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 19:49:35 just planning a luakit-like web browser 19:49:53 did you look at https://github.com/stassats/cl-qt-web-browser ? 19:49:56 because tired of ff 19:50:00 nikodem [~mikey@user-164-126-54-38.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:50:02 now looking 19:50:02 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 19:50:18 drewc [~drewc@50.7.166.100] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 it's half-assed, but has tabs! 19:50:34 (not much else) 19:51:08 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:42 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.164.254] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:51:49 cool, do you mind if i take some code from it ? 19:52:02 sure, it's public domain 19:52:11 ok, thanks 19:52:25 -!- cafaro [~tman@unaffiliated/cafaro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:12 i'm still thinking how to make tabs to run in separate processes 19:53:16 i still haven't resolved the problem when you close it, and then start again, webkit becomes very confused and handles web-pages in a strange manner 19:53:33 is xembed the only way? 19:53:58 xembed? 19:54:33 when you embed one app into another 19:54:47 i'm not sure what you're talking about 19:54:47 or how it's called? =/ 19:55:01 ed_g [~quassel@71-222-73-57.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:05 the thing that used to make uzbl-tabbed run tabs 19:55:12 -!- ed_g_ [~quassel@71-222-73-57.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:12 -!- Keshi [~Keshi@unaffiliated/keshi] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:55:31 adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:36 x protocol 19:55:48 i mean extension 19:55:59 http://standards.freedesktop.org/xembed-spec/xembed-spec-latest.html 19:56:30 i have no idea how is that connected to web-browser tabs 19:56:35 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:49 cool, clx has xembed extension 19:56:57 you make separate process for each tab 19:57:23 and this tabs combined into tabber (which also a separate process) 19:57:43 and they when you get segfault you lose only one tab ) 19:58:13 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:32 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:47 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:08 s/they// 19:59:13 You mean like Chrome does? I doubt it does it with an X-specific method, because it works on OSX and Windows too. 19:59:40 well 19:59:42 foom: I bet it uses an X specific method on X and an OS-X specific method on OS-X and a windows specific method on windows 20:00:03 foom: i've not decided do i want a crossplatform browser or not :) 20:00:33 -!- adelgado1 [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:01:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-198-197.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:03 I'd expect that it uses the parent process to touch the screen, and just shares a bitmap context or something like that. 20:01:07 But I don't really know anything about it. :) 20:02:42 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:54 i think in this case it will be extremely difficult to implement webGL or similar thing that needs an acceleration 20:03:03 gynvael.coldwind.pl/?id=49 this has a little bit of information I think? 20:03:11 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:03:45 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:03:59 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.26] has joined #lisp 20:04:05 I think chrome uses a lot of OS-specific features though for its sandboxing 20:04:46 http://dev.chromium.org/developers/design-documents/sandbox ooh, this looks fancier. 20:04:47 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 20:05:04 pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:05:18 sandboxing is my sore subject 20:05:40 I think if I'm reading this right each tab process gets its own renderer? 20:05:55 and there's a "broker" process that spawns tab processes, handles IPC, security policies, and stuff 20:06:28 seems that right 20:06:45 Fiora, mmh reminds me of League of Legends. 20:07:03 sandbox in chrome has IPC channels used to pass GL commands 20:07:11 hmm, is there any way to make a sandbox within a linux? 20:07:21 zolk3ri1: Fire Emblem, actually ^^; 20:07:32 huh, they have a page on OS X. ... but not linux 20:07:34 anonus: multiple 20:07:42 i mean secure sandbox 20:07:46 anonus: yes 20:07:50 multiple :) 20:07:53 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 20:08:00 except maybe selinux or similar kernel-level MACs 20:08:13 oooh, found an article. 20:08:15 http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/LinuxSandboxing 20:08:18 there's seccomp, on x86 you have segmentation tricks, etc. 20:08:25 (anyway i didn't find a useful api for it) 20:08:27 sandboxing seems superfluous when you give webpages nearly unlimiteed access to the video card via webGL 20:08:35 zolk3ri1: you are not in top - ic :-) 20:08:44 it looks like most of the stuff it does is selinux and apparmor stuff 20:08:47 pnpuff: what do you mean? 20:08:54 jasom: WebGL is serialized through IPC 20:09:02 nothing zolk3ri1 ^^ 20:09:10 jasom: well, if you run an open source video card driver, that has the possibility of not being equivalent to kernel mode. 20:09:19 jasom: and they blacklist drivers that are known vulnerable 20:10:01 for example i want to restrict app to read current time - i cannnot invent methods to do that in linux not using kernel-level MACs 20:10:04 foom: if you do DMA then it doesn't matter if your not equivalent to kernel mode (excepting some of the newer hypervisor type stuff) 20:10:35 jasom: the video card can do arbitrary DMA, but webgl cannot, barring a bug in the driver. 20:10:48 anonus: umm, you can if you wrote the APIs available to sandboxed code (like NaCL and PNaCL) 20:11:00 jasom: well, the only way to make it secure is turn off the computer and pour concrete inside 20:11:12 and drop into the ocean 20:11:29 NaCL is like code-walkers, and code-walker is not a gueranteed way to protect the system 20:11:42 anonus: umm, NaCL isn't code-walking. at all 20:11:48 no? 20:11:58 no 20:12:06 meh, I still think webgl greatly increases the surface area for attacks against a browser. But that's getting way OT so I'll shut up now 20:12:19 nacl is basically like, a compiler modification to generate a specific sort of code that can be verified I think 20:12:23 anyway i do not know what is the connection with "lisp" 20:12:29 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:31 Fiora: nope 20:12:32 i read that it just analyze code 20:12:32 it hijacks all of the indirect jumps and function calls and stuff so that it can't jump to an invalid place 20:12:44 the connection was "writing a lisp browser that uses sandboxed renderers" 20:12:50 and there's that thing where instructions can't cross 32 byte boundaries and calls are 32 byte aligned and weird things 20:12:58 Fiora: interesting :) 20:13:05 but off-topic 20:13:08 #lisp <--- -----> #lispcafe 20:13:21 (maybe) 20:13:25 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vx32 <--- example way to sandbox code on x86, including lisp (I actually considered writing a runtime using it) 20:13:40 oh: that is in-topic now... 20:13:45 well, then i doesn't understand how it can be protected if it is not in interpreter mode 20:13:49 http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs240/readings/nacl_paper.pdf 20:14:01 anonus: basically, it makes things safe by prohibiting everything that isn't safe, and adding checks where it isn't sure 20:14:05 anonus: by hijacking the way you can call to OS 20:14:18 I think that's the basic idea 20:14:27 what about bugs in the microcode? 20:14:29 i.e. when the sandboxed code hits stuff that calls to kernel, it gets passed to sandbox manager 20:14:32 so like, if it sees a jump, and thinks "this jump could go to a place that isn't safe", it makes sure to check it's safe before doing it 20:14:45 and yeah, it prohibits all stuff like interrupts and syscalls 20:14:52 so you can't bypass their libraries 20:14:53 Fiora: that can be prevented with just mmap() 20:15:00 (jumps etc.) 20:15:01 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-041.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:08 p_l: how it is implemented ? 20:15:10 p_l: there's the issue of jumping to ofsetted code though, right? 20:15:21 i.e. in the middle of an x86instruction, to do things like return-oriented programming 20:15:29 I remember that's why they had some of the weird rules 20:15:32 that all jumps had to be 32 byte aligned 20:15:39 so you couldn't pull exploits like that 20:15:56 how it can forbid me to call a kernel? 20:15:56 if the whole communication surface between host and sandboxed code is a bunch of non-executable circular buffers... 20:16:08 they can refuse to run your program if it has a kernel call in it XD 20:16:30 anonus: by a) rewriting syscall code at runtime b) trapping syscalls into host process 20:16:37 that too 20:16:42 how it can figure out that it has ? 20:16:45 well 20:16:55 syscalls use the "int" instruction on x86, I think 20:16:57 so you can just look for that 20:17:11 self-modifying programs is hard to write in protected environment but still possible 20:17:30 Fiora: more than just int 20:17:40 can't they write-protect the code region? 20:17:55 sysenter too, I guess? 20:18:06 but i can make another code region upon data region 20:18:22 and yes, I think NaCL write-protects code 20:18:25 a sandbox like that isn't going to let you do that probably :p 20:18:33 can't it just deny jumps to un-write-protected regions 20:18:41 Yeah, I think that's exactly what it does 20:18:49 nacl literally won't let you jump to a place that isn't valid code in your program 20:18:56 and it checks all the jumps on runtime to be sure 20:18:59 "The key to vx32s combination of portability, flexibility, and efficiency is its use of x86 segmentation hardware to sandbox the guests data accesses, along with a lightweight instruction translator to sandbox guest instructions." <---probably similar to this 20:19:05 Fiora: you don't have to check jumps 20:19:12 I think it still does 20:19:15 hmmm, well 20:19:20 just make sure plugin's memory map is the way you want it 20:19:22 like maybe you don't have to but I think I remember reading it does? 20:19:34 if you don't use default dynamic linker, it's easy to do so 20:19:35 if it implemented at hardware level - i agree, it is possible 20:19:49 *Fiora* goes to read the paper @_@ 20:19:53 there's nx-bit 20:20:51 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:52 ooh, it looks like it does both. 20:20:54 apparently they check control flow in Vx32, but to avoid loading of segment data 20:20:54 p_l: nacl requires jump targets to be aligned. Otherwise it's too easy to hide code in code. 20:21:05 the sandbox in nacl uses segmented memory, plus it does stuff to avoid unaligned jump tar-- what pkhuong said 20:21:11 findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 20:21:37 pkhuong: there's another important reason for the 32bit thing - NaCL increasingly often hides qemu inside (or similar) :) 20:21:55 and 32bit-aligned accesses are easier to deal with on non-x86oids 20:22:01 anyway it needs code walk to ensure that there is no syscalls or jumps 20:22:13 disassembly should work okay 20:22:37 anonus: well, more like code scanning. 20:22:44 http://www.stanford.edu/class/cs240/readings/nacl_paper.pdf cool, page 4 has the full list of NACL code constraints 20:22:47 by code walk i mean exactly binary code walk of course 20:23:09 and you can avoid all of that by using bytecode format used to generate native code at runtime (like PNaCL does) 20:23:26 while still allowing it to be a target for any compiler 20:23:44 very interesting 20:23:45 (yes, ECL should work under PNaCL. Didn't have time or energy to test) 20:23:58 wow 20:24:08 p_l: even the gc? 20:24:27 stassats: yes, with some tweaking 20:24:33 aand, can i use nacl inside my regular app or it tied to chrome ? 20:24:50 anonus: these days it's tied to chrome, mostly, though you probably can slice it out 20:24:57 damnd 20:24:59 damn 20:25:31 why do you need it anyhow? 20:26:30 i have a frozen project of p2p software that will be good to have an ability to run sandboxed code (also with resources constraints) 20:26:50 does it have to be native code? 20:27:27 no, and now i'm using lua as only thing that fits my requirements 20:28:29 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:36 minion: memo for robot-beethoven: you could use (setf (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:sexp-file-contents "file.sexp") (setf list (modify-list list))) 20:28:36 Remembered. I'll tell robot-beethoven when he/she/it next speaks. 20:28:44 btw is there bindings for lua ? 20:28:44 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f730a48.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:15 who would want lua while having cl? 20:29:30 H4ns: for lisp wide questions, there's #lisplab. See http://cliki.net/IRC 20:29:37 because with cl you cannot run fully untrusted code 20:29:53 stassats: I would. I started to write a lua parser. Completed the scanner. Need to find time to implement the parser. 20:30:11 stassats: Specifically, a lot of _data_ files are written as lua _code_. 20:30:13 anonus: well, it's quite easy to write a safe-lisp to cl compiler 20:30:21 stassats: (the idiots, instead of using sexps!) 20:30:30 it's a matter of preference anyway... 20:30:46 stassats: and beyond, I'd want to implement lua in lisp, so that it's possible to replace lua engines embedded in some applications by a lisp engine! 20:31:13 when you are writing untrusted execution environment by youself is no that much secure anymore ) 20:31:32 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:47 So it's more a matter of wanting cl while having lua, you see. Same as clpython, which needs to be improved and be able to load python C modules, so that we can replace other python implementations with cl implementations. 20:31:52 pjb: er .. wouldn't that more have nothing to do with lua in lisp, but having a lua-compatible C api for lisp? 20:32:11 my prof. that teach cryptography at university told "never god damn every try to implement crypto algorithms by youself" :D 20:32:13 you'd have to write CL in lua, or something equally horrible ;) 20:32:26 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029be3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:32:48 oGMo: you see, the main problem people have with lua and python, is that their implementations are worse than the worse CL implementation. 20:33:02 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 20:33:18 anonus: that's defeatist, how do you think we got all that cryptography libraries and so on written in the first place? 20:33:19 So implementing them in CL is already a pure benefit for _them_, and for _us_ since it would allow us to customize their applications in CL. 20:33:22 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:30 pjb: certainly not worse than ECL 20:33:43 anonus: you can get formal methods for correctness proof 20:34:02 pjb: i'm not sure how that would allow applications to customize in CL, is what i'm getting at, unless, i suppose, the app is written in lua/python 20:34:07 https://github.com/meric/l2l - oh my god, how can i unsee this now?! 20:34:46 fe[nl]ix: i would replace ECL with Clisp 20:34:51 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:35:07 runs as fast as lua eh? heh 20:35:39 well, lua now the fastest dynamic scripting lang, it beats even js with it's v8 20:35:56 on some synthetic tests? 20:36:36 well, maybe, but alson on my own subjective feelings after i tried both 20:36:41 isn't v8 old? and isn't it a full JIT? lua does JIT? 20:36:51 (yes, getting massively off topic here) 20:36:58 http://luajit.org 20:37:16 *drewc* is going to see if #lua is about common lisp 20:37:34 drewc: hehe 20:37:39 stassats: clisp has questionable choices wrt. code semantics, but the implementation is pretty solid, whereas ECL has the most frustrating debugger I've ever seen 20:38:02 is there any lisp with jit? 20:38:09 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:32 prxq: why you need a jit if you have full compiler ? 20:38:39 fe[nl]ix: well, clisp is the only free implementation where i even came close to running commonqt on, and they don't respond to bug reports 20:38:43 prxq: most lisp compilers could probably arguably be called JIT though you usually don't think of it that way 20:38:48 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:48 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-dcyctbmqjdmzcjnf] has joined #lisp 20:38:59 where i haven't, that is 20:39:01 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:29 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:39:34 and ECL is just getting better and better 20:39:38 and ABCL 20:40:15 nice 20:40:30 Fare! 20:40:32 CLISP on the other hand seems to be stagnating, whereas GCL is dead 20:40:43 anonus: well, yes, you are right. However, jit can act as a very smart compiler, by (ab)using actual use instead of caring about worst case guarantees. 20:40:43 asdf bugs incoming 20:40:55 apparently, CLISP 2.44.1 is massively annoyed with my package munging. 20:40:58 clisp has recentish commits 20:41:05 Fare: it's open source, don't say it's dead or you will have a lecture by pjb :) 20:41:06 I gotta try 2.49 20:41:20 "in temporal stasis" ? 20:41:21 is clisp still written in D or whatever? 20:41:37 :D is good! 20:41:39 oGMo: C an lisp. 20:41:45 prxq: i don't believe in "smart" jit-compilers 20:41:59 prxq: hrm k .. i recall it being written in some odd pet dialect but perhaps that was something else 20:42:20 luajit as a dynasm part for dynamic code generation, I wonder if that can be used to get some incremental compilation to lua/C 20:42:22 Fare: When attempting to test to see whether slot is bound (SLOT-BOUNDP), the slot ASDF/INTERFACE::RELATIVE-PATHNAME is missing from the object #. 20:42:35 anonus: what would you call lisp's compile-on-demand with dynamic optimization then? 20:42:42 REINITIALIZE-SOURCE-REGISTRY-AND-RETRY solves it 20:42:46 incremental compilation (C-M-x in SLIME) is one of the things I like the most in common lisp 20:42:57 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:43:05 C-M-x is not compiliation 20:43:08 C-c C-c or C-c C-k 20:43:18 what drewc said is compiliation 20:43:24 anonus: what do you mean you don't believe? you don't think they exist? 20:43:29 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:44 compilation is compilation. 20:44:08 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:44:09 clhs compile 20:44:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp.htm 20:44:11 why isn't C-M-x compilation? 20:44:20 because it's evaluation 20:44:21 prxq: clisp has a jitc. 20:44:30 yeah and in the case when you evaluate a defun? 20:44:32 your lisp may choose to compile, but it may not 20:44:42 oh I've not been verbose enough 20:44:45 dim: slime-eval-defun 20:44:48 xrq: i don't thing that they are smart 20:44:53 prxq: use it, debug it, it may eventually be compiled in by default. 20:45:27 pjb: is that an optional module? 20:45:30 anonus: from what I remember it's less that they're super smart and more that dynamic languages have a lot less information available on compile time (about types and so on) 20:45:49 prxq: it's a clisp-compilation-time option. 20:45:49 so you need a JIT to get C-like performance 20:46:11 or better than C... :) 20:46:14 someone told me that racket has "smart" JIT compiler 20:46:23 smartness is relative XD 20:46:33 anonus: ...and I mean what Fiora says. You can write very generic code and have it run as if it were full of declarations. Or at least, in theory. 20:46:36 anonus: there was a lot of hype about java getting a large speed boost from predictive analytics from the strongtalk team 20:47:17 the reason JITs can sometimes do so well is that they can rely on assumptions they get from the actual code being run, rather than only static analysis. it doesn't really take a lot of "smartness" to do a lot of that. 20:47:22 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has left #lisp 20:47:24 anonus: java 7 is still unable to run as fast as c or c++ in most comparisons so it is mostly hype 20:47:43 Bike: yeah, though you can do that with profiling too with gcc 20:47:49 though it only helps a few % usually >_>; 20:47:58 java is not dynamic scripting language 20:48:04 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:06 I'd guess it's more useful in languages where "not knowing the type" means "10 times slower" 20:48:13 anonus: irrelevant label, mostly 20:48:17 and jit in java much more translator from bytecode to native x86 20:48:32 Fiora: look for my upcoming paper, "human profiling as generalized JIT compilation" 20:48:44 Bike: *pfff* 20:48:51 great title Bike ^^ 20:49:11 Fiora: that's almost every dynamic lang, i'd say 20:49:17 yeah, basically 20:49:38 anonus: it's a compiler to the native instruction set of the machine it's on, yes 20:49:43 *prxq* has been seriously impressed with sbcl dispatch speeds lately 20:49:57 what kind of dispatch do you mean? 20:50:00 prxq: has that changed? 20:50:03 clos methods 20:50:08 ah, right 20:50:20 presumably due to fare begging crhodes for hacks 20:50:22 anonus: which is why I raise an eyebrow at java being part of the wiki page for interpreted languages 20:50:23 ehu: no idea, but I expected them to be slower than they actually are. 20:50:35 prxq: heavily cached. 20:50:44 ehu: works for me :-) 20:51:21 java does have a pure interpreter mode though right? 20:51:37 I think so 20:51:40 java is just a language, it can have whatever 20:51:55 correction: the oracle jvm ^^; 20:51:57 anyways i think that llvm is more promising 20:52:25 anonus: eh .. llvm is nice for very C-like things, and less nice for anything else, from what i saw 20:52:49 oGMo: cpus are the same, be it for C or CL. 20:52:57 so, what's the problem with llvm? 20:52:58 ehu: irrelevant 20:53:06 oGMo: why? 20:53:19 oGMo: no problem! 20:53:28 the restrictions at various levels make more dynamic things either slow or impossible 20:53:32 haskell uses it quite nice afaik 20:53:36 oGMo: not really. you make a point that a VM isn't good enough for anything but C-like stuff. 20:53:43 oh, yea 20:53:45 types 20:53:51 i.e., if you use the JIT, you can't walk the stack yourself, and you can't use inline asm 20:54:00 actually that's just an e.g. 20:54:02 type system instead of langunage fits better to llvm that CL 20:54:11 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:54:16 ehu: my point is _llvm_ is not very good for non-C-like stuff 20:54:27 ehu: that is a known issue. You can make vms that are unfriendly to all sorts of things a CL (eg) may need. 20:54:35 Fare: any pointers how to better diagnose this? 20:54:53 oGMo: i think that x86 is not very good for non-C-like stuff 20:54:55 ehu: you can sortof make it work, but it requires a lot of ugly hacks 20:55:05 LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:24 ehu: aren't cpus optimized more for algol-style code, but the lisp machines were optimized for conses? 20:55:31 anonus: not really true, and x86 is also cheap and available 20:55:40 or am I spreading rumors around 20:55:56 conses aren't really what makes lisp 20:56:01 *Fiora* wants to find that link to this great article about why hardware acceleration of dynamic languages isn't that useful 20:56:03 and certainly what harms performance 20:56:07 certainly not what 20:56:14 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:56:27 i mean that if either x86 and llvm are pain in the ass why not to use second and get cross-platforminess ? 20:56:32 Fiora: http://www.yosefk.com/blog/the-high-level-cpu-challenge.html ? 20:56:39 x86 not having fast stuff for GC is probably the biggest hit, but you can obviously work around it 20:56:55 stassats: wow, that was fast 20:57:04 *drewc* has done x86 asm since his 80286 days and does not have a problem with it... it is not C! 20:57:16 yes that was it XD 20:57:28 drewc: yeah try implementing a complete x86(_64) assembler/disassembler though heh 20:57:42 Fiora: that's because i know how to google! 20:58:45 (defclass foo () (bar)), (closer-mop:class-direct-subclasses (find-class 'standard-class)), foo is not listed... Another thing I didn't understand? 20:58:45 *drewc* changes the comment in SBCL and removes a bunch, then releases it as "DREWC ASM" 20:58:47 anyhow, the point is, even if you make a vastly better architecture, you won't be able to compete with intel due economies of scale, better process etc. 20:59:02 oGMo: hmmm ... wasn't _that_ difficult :P 20:59:13 i don't think sbcl's asm stuff is complete either from what i saw 20:59:46 dim: did you finalize it? 20:59:55 if sbcl would have used llvm for code generation we will already have an arm port 21:00:10 not explicitely, that's all I can tell you, let me rtfm some 21:00:14 clhs disassemble 21:00:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_disass.htm 21:00:19 functional style lisp should be better suited to run on the GPU than imperative programming though 21:00:21 that part works :) 21:00:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:00:38 drewc: it works for what it generates; i don't think it has complete instruction coverage though 21:00:42 dim: and it should be standard-object, not standard-class 21:00:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:01:05 but it's # 21:01:30 so I though the class foo would be an instance of the class standard-class 21:01:42 it's an instance of standard-class 21:01:56 oh, got it 21:02:20 damn yes it's not a subclass, it's an instance. 21:02:38 can I list instances of a given class? 21:02:41 no 21:02:52 not without saving them manually 21:02:58 I see 21:03:04 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 21:03:05 and for good reason! 21:03:18 I suppose I would create my own meta-class to code that behavior if I needed it? 21:03:23 stassats: stupid question: how can i convert some enum C++ native value to integer ? 21:03:41 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:42 dim: you could add a method to make-instance and stuff it somewhere 21:03:49 anonus: primitive-value 21:03:59 thanks 21:04:04 well I'm all confused, I shouldn't do that after a long day, but at's helping me change my mind 21:04:04 dim: it does not need to me a metaclass at all, there are a number of ways to go about it 21:05:22 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 21:05:35 drewc: I would need a meta-class to register classes, but that's already done 21:05:46 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Greensleeves...] 21:05:52 and I'm mixing all of instance and class and metaclass tonight it seems 21:06:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-106.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:53 so a slot of :allocation :class that my specialized make-instance would maintain should do the trick, if what I want to register instances of a given class, right? 21:06:55 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f730a48.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:07:20 dim: do you want the garbage collector to work for your own meta-class? 21:07:26 uh. class? 21:07:32 don't you have a metaclass already? 21:07:37 if so, you can add a new slot to it 21:08:02 dim: if you want GC to work, you can't keep references like that around. 21:08:04 it's only about understanding some things, I don't have a practical case on my hands here 21:08:08 ok. 21:08:10 ehu: understood 21:08:19 AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:15 a classic: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.lisp/wTJ1i77ORHI/TgRoMEYq05YJ "LISP to C vs machine level" 21:10:17 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:10:32 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-5f730a48.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:36 ASDF 2.26.78 makes CLISP slightly less unhappy, but it's still not happy with upgrade. 21:10:47 stassats: ooh, so calling convention is a big issue 21:11:12 you read fast 21:11:19 I'm not done >_>; 21:11:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-91.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:12:14 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:13:10 the overflow thing, that must be really important with non-fixnums right? 21:13:25 Fare: Testsuite failed: ASDF compiled with ERRORS with sbcl 21:13:42 Fare: ASDF/PACKAGE also exports the following symbols: 21:14:03 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:15:00 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:34 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 21:16:02 -!- trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has left #lisp 21:16:18 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:56 Using sbcl --noinform --userinit /dev/null --sysinit /dev/null --disable-debugger Ran 41 tests: 41 passing and 0 failing 21:19:05 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:10 38 passing and 3 failing here with SBCL=../run-sbcl.sh make 21:19:31 that defpackage warning is from the image with an already loaded asdf 21:19:37 didn't happen before 21:20:24 jeti` [~user@p548EBE09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:48 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9678.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:23:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-91.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:22 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:23:45 -!- jeti [~user@p548EA2C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-91.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:24:34 -!- alec [~alec@68-185-207-130.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:24:35 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:29 what is a constrained type system? 21:25:46 why do you ask #lisp? 21:27:31 stassats: is there a reason why you think it's offtopic? 21:27:41 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 21:27:42 -!- kilon [~kilon@188.4.23.132.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 21:27:42 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 21:27:55 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:16 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:29 xrq: probably not off topic, just curious that you should ask here (: 21:29:24 stassats: lisp is generally a language used to create other languages. I would expect folks here to know more about a language feature like a constrained type system than some other channel on freenode, whatever that channel would be 21:29:46 xrq: no, not generally 21:29:47 stassats: among other uses of lisp 21:30:21 let me run the test-upgrade script. 21:30:36 xrq: the various Haskell or ML compilers are either self-hosting or written in C 21:31:17 fe[nl]ix: really? you think it's so black and white? I hear about people working on new languages with lisp all the time 21:32:04 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-125-14.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:06 xrq: do tell 21:33:10 sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 Fiora: i think it's easier just to call GMP, it'll have assembly sections for that 21:35:11 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:35:26 what does sbcl do? 21:35:36 it doesn't generate C code 21:36:22 fe[nl]ix: so you *don't* think lisp is a good language to use to create new languages? 21:36:44 xrq: that's not what most people in #lisp are doing 21:36:57 stassats: I never said it was 21:37:07 oh sorry, I just meant that I figured sbcl did all that overflow checking in asm 21:37:16 and in C you'd either have to call a library or do it ickily 21:37:34 sbcl does it machine code, right 21:37:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:38:07 xrq: and not many people are involved with type-system research 21:38:18 so, #lisp is not the best place to get an answer 21:39:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:40 xrq: i am, and it is great, imo 21:41:04 xrq: I find your lack of logic disturbing 21:41:32 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:49 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010c45.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:30 lisp should be a good lang to implement draft algorithms for new langs. 21:42:32 i think. 21:42:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:08 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:43:26 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:43:39 Tau: sure, but few actually do that 21:43:46 fe[nl]ix true. 21:43:46 fe[nl]ix: I really have no cart in this race, so whatever. I personally had a nice time playing with a new language design with lisp 21:43:54 Tau: other languages are more fashionable now 21:44:01 fe[nl]ix i agree. 21:44:29 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-125-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:45:08 sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:45:39 xrq: good :) 21:48:15 snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:48:25 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:15 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 21:51:17 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-117.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:51:26 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-117.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:51:34 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-117.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:52:08 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-76-21-0-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:52:12 gonzojive_ [~red@c-76-21-0-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:36 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:21 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 21:58:09 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:02:08 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:32 fe[nl]ix: could we agree that it would be good if more people used lisp to imlpement draft algorithms? Then it would be good to be welcoming to people asking about strange things here too? 22:05:44 (like constraint type systems) 22:06:48 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:19 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.247] has joined #lisp 22:07:39 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:07:42 pjb: of course, but our agreement won't mean much :) 22:10:26 -!- tps_ [~tps_@hoasb-50dd08-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: tps_] 22:11:41 -!- ed_g [~quassel@71-222-73-57.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:02 psycode [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 22:16:41 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.223.73] has joined #lisp 22:17:39 when define multiple methods for a given generic, is it possible for their symbols not to all live in the same package? I mean you have to call the method explicitely, right? 22:17:59 the symbol naming the generic function? 22:18:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-91.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:02 It's unique. 22:18:16 yes, so, the symbol of any of the specific methods 22:18:37 But it can be imported into several packages, or its home package or one of the packages that export it to be used by several packages. 22:18:55 It's the symbol that names the generic function. There's only one. 22:19:36 ok 22:19:58 so I could import the symbol of the generic function and define a method in my other package? 22:20:22 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:25 (defpackage :p1 (:use :cl) (:export :m)) (defpackage :p2 (:use :cl :p1) (:export :m)) (defgeneric p1:m (x)) (defmethod p1:m ((x integer)) 'i) (defmethod p2:m ((x string)) 's) But (eq 'p1:m 'p2:m) 22:20:29 Yes. 22:20:55 (defpackage :p3 (:use :cl)) (import 'p1:m :p3) (defmethod p3::m ((x vector)) 'v) 22:23:22 iLogical_ [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has joined #lisp 22:24:22 yes I could adapt that example to mine 22:24:33 thanks 22:24:42 I knew I was missing something here, it was the generic and importing of its symbol 22:24:58 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 22:25:04 Well technically, there's a difference between using a package and importing symbols, but in practice it makes no difference. 22:25:26 (defpackage :p4 (:use :cl) (:import-from :p1 :m))  22:25:32 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.223.73] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 22:25:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:25:42 yes I've actually used :import-from in my example 22:26:21 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:27 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:27:02 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:17 ebobby [~fms@200.52.182.193] has joined #lisp 22:34:36 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:30 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:40:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:16 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 22:42:28 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:54 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:43:23 alec [~alec@68-185-207-130.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:25 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:08 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:53 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:53:50 ha, allegro personal can't now even compile slime without exhausting its free heap 22:53:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:00 allegro express 22:54:06 :-) 22:54:36 i guess that's because new asdf takes too much memory 22:56:01 yep, works fine with asdf 2.23 22:56:18 let's implement a small VM in allegro, with virtual virtual memory so that you can run complex cl program on allegro. 22:57:53 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:29 i noticed that the newest asdf also takes more time to load on sbcl 22:58:58 that's what got me to the idea that it might be the cause of allegro heap problems 22:59:14 okflo [~user@91-115-88-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:59:15 s 22:59:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-198-197.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:40 asdf 2.23 vs git on sbcl: 1.046 seconds vs 1.746 seconds, 247,381,296 bytes consed vs 396,807,600 bytes consed 22:59:43 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 23:01:09 Krystof_ [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 23:01:17 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:01:39 clisp 2.49 isn't happy with the latest asdf either. sigh. More package weirdness. 23:01:52 *stassats* isn't happy too 23:02:09 may have to rollback 23:02:19 -!- okflo [~user@91-115-88-99.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 23:03:55 it's just an instance of "worse is better" 23:04:18 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:04:35 not caring about upgrades would make it so much easier 23:04:47 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-198-197.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:06:23 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:32 iLogical_ [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has joined #lisp 23:07:51 segv-_ [~mb@dslb-092-078-126-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:59 reckler [~reckler@ppp118-208-144-40.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:27 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.43.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:08:29 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:09:21 -!- ebobby [~fms@200.52.182.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:09:32 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-092-078-126-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:09:32 -!- segv-_ is now known as segv- 23:09:33 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:41 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:00 iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has joined #lisp 23:10:39 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:41 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:02 iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has joined #lisp 23:13:04 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:09 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:14:11 -!- hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:47 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.219.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:16:31 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:17:18 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 23:17:34 what if 23:17:37 -!- elkng changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.1.3, Yason 0.6.3, Hunchentoot 1.2.9, Drakma 1.3.0 23:20:34 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-164-126-54-38.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:21:08 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:18 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:22:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0025a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:22:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:24:42 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 23:26:18 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:28 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:36 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 23:27:50 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:29:04 -!- sellout- [~Adium@70.96.9.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:53 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:31:24 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:34:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:35:06 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:35:10 not caring about upgrades would also make upgrades not work. 23:35:34 I suppose I could do just that on CLISP. 23:35:52 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:36:01 upgrade works fine on SBCL, now. 23:36:26 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:37:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:38:03 without upgrade, we'll be back to the old deadlock of ASDF1, where everyone had his own slightly different version of ASDF, no one would upgrade because of incompatibility, etc. 23:38:19 and everyone is waiting for everyone else to upgrade. 23:38:19 nope 23:38:24 now nobody would upgrade because they are afraid something will brake 23:38:32 break 23:38:45 without upgrade, everybody would use whatever quicklisp has 23:38:49 well, that's why I am still testing before release. 23:39:20 maybe I should focus more on fixing the incompatibilities with quicklisp, true that. 23:39:34 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:39:42 on the other hand, I already handle them, and am waiting for people to commit the patches I sent them. 23:40:24 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:26 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:29 pdenno [~pdenno@216-15-38-107.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:08 wakeup_ [~max@xdsl-89-0-145-71.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:41:42 oops, I hadn't pushed my latest changes 23:41:49 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 23:43:44 somehow, CLISP hates my package frobbing even when not upgrading. Sigh. 23:43:57 SBCL now works for me after upgrade. 23:43:58 OPEN yields an error: Not an ivector subtag: 170, what does that mean? 23:44:04 CCL 23:44:30 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-155-190.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:44:38 wakeup, low-level error. Are you doing something low-level? 23:44:44 #ccl is that way 23:44:56 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:45:06 no I am just opening a file 23:45:18 it means "paste your code" 23:45:46 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:49:27 (with-open-file (in path :element-type :unsigned-byte)...) 23:49:40 where path is a valid file 23:50:05 :unsigned-byte? 23:50:34 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:09 ,(+ 2 3) 23:53:15 # (+ 2 3) 23:53:43 When I (apropos "COMPONENT-NAME") in CLISP, I find scary looking symbols with -1 suffix in them. 23:54:02 :unsigned-byte instead of 'unsigned-byte ? 23:54:17 rather (unsigned-byte 8) 23:54:19 *|3b|* suspects you would need to specify a size to be meaningful too 23:54:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@87-096.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:55:00 wakeup: that's why I moved into the new asdf code that does that for you (because I needed it) 23:56:14 snits [~snits@174-17-112-107.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:20 caemir [~caemir@unaffiliated/caemir] has joined #lisp 23:57:05 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@95.Red-88-7-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:58:56 uisk [~user@9-157-131-46.internet.emt.ee] has joined #lisp 23:58:59 abeaumont [~abeaumont@95.Red-88-7-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:17 ok my bad 23:59:28 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:31 not using a proper type spec what was I thinking