00:00:32 BlastHardcheese [chris@pool-108-38-202-171.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:32 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pool-108-38-202-171.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:00:32 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 00:00:42 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:01:08 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:01:21 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:01:33 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:d4c5:9d78:4149:61f8] has joined #lisp 00:02:11 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:06:07 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:06:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:07:19 ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has joined #lisp 00:11:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:11:55 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:28 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 00:17:41 -!- segv-_ [~mb@dslb-094-222-105-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-_] 00:18:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:18:31 gridaphobe [~user@169.228.188.47] has joined #lisp 00:19:38 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:20:35 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:17 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:27 drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:23:01 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:23:14 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:37 zulu_inuoe_ [~quassel@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 00:29:31 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31:07 ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has joined #lisp 00:31:19 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 00:32:44 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:35:20 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:35:52 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 00:37:40 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:38:37 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:14 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:43:38 ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has joined #lisp 00:45:21 brguy [~idonteven@177.17.148.15] has joined #lisp 00:50:10 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 00:51:15 slime offers C-c x to export a symbol, is there a way to import a symbol from a package too? 00:51:21 as in, a key combo 00:51:38 try to apropos 00:51:41 no, how would it work? 00:52:45 -!- Guest892 [~osk@pc-233-5-86-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:19 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 00:56:13 stassats`: you would first write alexandria:compose, then you'd hit the magic key combo. to the relevant defpackage form (:import-from :alexandria :compose) would be added, the symbol would be imported in the current package, and alexandria:compose would be rewritten to :compose. 00:56:46 drdo: i have searched already and couldn't find it, but thanks for the hint. 00:58:03 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:25 right now i often get seduced to use :use :some-package which has its known issues. 01:00:36 well, you can add such a feature 01:01:00 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:02:10 stassats`: ok, i'll likely do so in due time 01:02:21 stassats`: thanks for confirming it doesn't exist 01:02:43 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:04:52 madnificent: I just feel like helping people, i knew it was useless advice :S 01:05:24 gendl [~dcooper8@vbn.0059434.lodgenet.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:52 drdo: it wasn't necessarily useless. i might have overlooked it or i could have asked the question too soon. the thanks was sincere ;) 01:06:17 oh come on, stop being nice, people! 01:06:27 -!- CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:07:32 madnificent, maybe redshank has something like that? 01:07:50 fuck you stassats` 01:08:06 that's the spirit! 01:08:11 language 01:08:24 Some people do not love thier fellow mand, and I hate poeple like that! 01:08:31 oh please, i was kidding 01:09:23 I'm ok with worse words in private conversation, but eh. private channel and all. 01:09:30 public channel more like 01:09:33 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:09:57 there used to be a time that clozure had a log of all the things said here (: 01:10:07 and that's only the folks that we know about 01:10:16 minion: logs? 01:10:16 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 01:10:20 uh, don't they still have logs...? 01:10:28 maybe they do! 01:10:42 so much the better. "this will go on your record", quite literally 01:11:23 madnificent: imagine your parents will see it, you'll be grounded! 01:12:15 adeht: don't think so. i didn't find it earlier. i've walked through the RedShank source again and i'm fairly certain it's not in there. 01:12:57 antifuchs: which is a reason for my conflicted feelings wrt disappearing usenet archives ;) 01:13:03 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:04 pkhuong: indeed 01:13:12 stassats`: the difference to my life right now would be better food and less cooking for me to do. i'll take it! 01:13:38 madnificent, I see 01:13:47 anyway, saying stuff like that even to people you know in a channel that's publically logged and (at least ostensibly) open to newbies isn't the wisest choice if you want a community that is welcoming to others (: 01:13:59 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:14:28 to kids learning lisp! 01:14:31 antifuchs: i normally agree. but i found this demanded an exception. either case, back to lisp? 01:14:52 yes pleas 01:14:53 e 01:15:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:56 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:17:24 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 01:17:33 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@vbn.0059434.lodgenet.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 01:20:23 sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.236.243] has joined #lisp 01:20:57 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:22:16 -!- MrMc [~user@91-64-125-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:49 -!- drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:28:47 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A08B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:11 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839F8F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:35:01 -!- gridaphobe [~user@169.228.188.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:51 -!- brguy [~idonteven@177.17.148.15] has quit [Quit: Don't use quit!] 01:39:23 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 01:41:31 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:41:49 ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has joined #lisp 01:41:54 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 01:42:00 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.51.1.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 01:43:55 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:45:04 -!- Yinne [~Daisy@109.58.247.44.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:47:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:47:33 ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has joined #lisp 01:47:42 how do you convert a sybol to a keyword symbol ==> from 'happy to :happy 01:48:05 (intern (string 'happy) :keyword) 01:48:14 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:20 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.51.1.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:48:23 Yinne [~Daisy@109.58.96.151.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 01:48:57 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:33 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-118-179.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:25 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:26 how do I portably get a pathname that is guaranteed to be physical? 01:54:31 that's the question. 01:55:16 Fare: what do you mean physical? 01:55:26 (user-homedir-pathname)? 01:55:45 more like (translate-logical-pathname (user-homedir-pathname)) actually 01:56:05 interesting that it's guaranteed to NOT be nil when a host was not supplied. 01:56:56 gendl [~dcooper8@vbn.0059434.lodgenet.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:20 (where does translate-logical-pathname fall short?) 01:57:37 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:44 madnificent, it may fail given random crap? 01:57:59 Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:58:11 oh, you want to give random crap to a function and assume you'll get a physical pathname back? 01:58:21 maybe (translate-logical-pathname *default-pathname-defaults*) would work, too 01:58:39 madnificent: I want to create a context in which to parse physical namestrings 01:58:44 Fare: one can bind d-p-d to anything 01:59:01 Fare: ah, that makes sense 01:59:14 stassats: not on SBCL, but at that point, one might deserve to lose. 01:59:19 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:00:15 Fare: (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* (pathname "SYS:fff"))) (translate-logical-pathname *default-pathname-defaults*)) 02:00:16 so... which shall win, (translate-logical-pathname *default-pathname-defaults*) or (translate-logical-pathname (user-homedir-pathname)) ? 02:00:17 on sbcl 02:00:34 -!- Yinne [~Daisy@109.58.96.151.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:11 also, should I do it once at compile-time, or is it a no-no and should I run it every time at runtime? 02:01:40 do what? 02:02:02 Make sure the pathnames are not parsed in a logical context. 02:02:28 what do you mean by "logical context"? 02:03:37 TDT [~user@173-17-121-48.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:11 and how do you parse pathnames? 02:04:37 if you just use parse-namestring, the namestring may represent a logical pathname itself 02:04:41 Hey all. I'm working with chanl, and threads. I'm reading the common lisp cookbook on threads, and it talks about the standard otput being specific to that thread. I ... forgot how I fixed this a year or so ago when I last tried. How can I set the thread to write to the main thread's standard output soI can see it in the REPL? 02:05:06 are you talking about slime? 02:05:28 yeah, in slime 02:05:36 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:05:39 TDT: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Global-IO-Redirection.html 02:06:13 stassats: (pathname "/foo/bar") will have "interesting" results if your *default-pathname-defaults* is logical. At least on CCL. 02:06:16 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:06:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:06:47 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 02:07:00 stassats`: okay thanks. 02:07:51 drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:08:00 (describe (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* #p"ccl:")) (pathname "foo"))) 02:08:09 (let ((*default-pathname-defaults* #p"ccl:")) (pathname "foo/bar")) ==> error 02:10:29 ed_g [~quassel@75-164-195-17.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:37 so... should I use user-homedir-pathname or *default-pathname-defaults* as being the least full of fail? 02:10:52 and at compile-time load-time or runtime? 02:11:27 "A programming language is low level when its programs require attention to the irrelevant." — Alan Perlis 02:12:05 so Common Lisp is wrong-level because its programs require attention to the distracting? 02:12:08 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176367377.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:12:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:23 well, pathnames are just bonkers, it doesn't have anything to do with being low or high level 02:12:46 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:50 threeseven [~errata@76-218-105-214.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:59 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:11 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:13:24 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:15:12 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:15:35 -!- {amon} [~lwa@p54A3AE3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:15:59 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:16:15 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c317b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:24 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 02:19:47 -!- threeseven [~errata@76-218-105-214.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:19:47 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2053.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:21:59 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:22:19 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E7CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:22:34 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:23:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:30:29 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 02:33:30 what do you call a language that REQUIRES you to deal with bonkers stuff? 02:33:39 bonkers-level language? 02:34:06 you can use iolib pathnames or something 02:35:20 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:38:36 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 02:42:42 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176367377.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 02:46:24 -!- PuffTheMagic___ [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ukevpernmvjiphlr] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 02:47:39 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@146.90.177.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:54:08 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:18 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:08 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:22 teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 02:57:32 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-121-48.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:23 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176367377.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:01:27 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:03:42 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:04:00 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:05:28 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:52 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:12 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:41 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:10:42 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 03:12:28 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 03:13:07 can and should. 03:13:13 except... not in ASDF 03:13:26 14% of ASDF is dealing with pathname horror. Wow. 03:14:39 just the pathname portability code in ASDF2 is about the size of the last working ASDF release by Dan Barlow. 03:15:26 Rant away 03:15:28 Let it all out 03:16:17 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:55 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.236.243] has left #lisp 03:19:51 worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.34] has joined #lisp 03:23:31 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 03:28:11 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 03:29:52 myx [~myx@pppoe-211-174-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 03:33:25 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:56 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:45:53 confab_ [~metulbot2@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:04 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:47:20 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:10 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:50:20 Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 03:52:39 -!- confab_ [~metulbot2@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has left #lisp 03:52:52 -!- Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:06 Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 03:55:56 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 03:57:18 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:57:39 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:05 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 04:10:22 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:12:00 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 04:16:54 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:47 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:21:26 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:53 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:37 zero_coder [~chatzilla@49.203.69.214] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 04:32:45 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:35:09 chitofan [99145f45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.95.69] has joined #lisp 04:40:39 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:14 in emacs, how do you continue off a previous buffer you saved? 04:41:31 i can load and see my saved code, but its just there.. i cant use it 04:41:33 :( 04:41:34 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:42:21 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:48:24 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:49:33 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:27 -!- chitofan [99145f45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.95.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:56:31 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:59:41 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:59:47 -!- worstadmin [~worst@174.141.213.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:03:01 -!- zero_coder [~chatzilla@49.203.69.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:50 zero_coder [~chatzilla@49.203.210.248] has joined #lisp 05:05:18 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-62-61.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:08 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:06:19 chitofan [99145f45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.95.69] has joined #lisp 05:10:06 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:12:56 -!- drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:02 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:18:56 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:19:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-110-6.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 05:19:54 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441032.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:19:54 anyone , here works in google? 05:20:17 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441032.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:20:59 -!- zero_coder [~chatzilla@49.203.210.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:17 -!- Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:25:54 all the ITA engineers are, most likely (: 05:26:56 teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 05:27:57 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:07 FSVO "work" 05:28:33 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 05:28:46 I'm hoping that no implementation is stupid enough to have (make-pathname :host nil) be a logical-pathname. 05:28:58 But hey, hope springs eternal. 05:31:41 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 05:32:42 hope for stupidity? sure does 05:33:49 rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:36:57 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:39:37 -!- chitofan [99145f45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.95.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:39:59 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:25 chitofan [99145f45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.95.69] has joined #lisp 05:43:08 PauK [pauk@stdev.org] has joined #lisp 05:43:50 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:20 -!- PauK is now known as borodust 05:45:31 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 05:46:36 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:41 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 05:48:51 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:49:54 teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 05:50:13 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:50:54 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ztnwgxcpqmycekwn] has joined #lisp 05:50:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-ztnwgxcpqmycekwn] has quit [Changing host] 05:50:55 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:56:15 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:54 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 05:58:17 Harag [~Thunderbi@dsl-243-249-05.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:58:37 -!- borodust [pauk@stdev.org] has quit [Quit: borodust] 06:00:54 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 06:01:20 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:01:39 -!- ed_g [~quassel@75-164-195-17.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:35 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:02:38 gonzojive [~red@c-76-21-6-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:29 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:33 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:34 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 06:17:53 kpal [~kpal@217-12-75-152.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 06:20:49 Fare: I'd say it would depend on the *default-pathname-defaults*. There's a merge in action there, IIRC. 06:21:34 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-76-21-6-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 06:22:05 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:06 pjb: no. The host is the only thing merged in a make-pathname, and here I am explicitly using :host nil, so at worst it's an implementation-wide default 06:22:26 ok. 06:22:33 hopefully not dependent on d-p-d 06:22:49 and hopefully not a "logical-pathname" -- or the implementation is really screwed up. 06:23:18 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:24:52 pathname compatibility is ~14% of ASDF2 and of comparable size with the original ASDF 1.37. 06:25:18 utilities (including those pathname functions) are ~23% of ASDF2. 06:26:30 clear backward-compatibility-only crap is over 5% of ASDF2. 06:26:59 up to 8%, depending on how you count 06:27:10 that's a fine bug: (LOCAL-TIME:TIMESTAMP-WHOLE-YEAR-DIFFERENCE @2013-01-01TZ @1996-02-29TZ) => error 06:27:52 bundle and concatenate-source are ~10% 06:30:09 configuration is 16% 06:30:14 base functionality is 40% 06:30:38 H4ns: nice. What causes it? 06:30:48 leap year magic? 06:30:51 yeah 06:31:12 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:32 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:34:54 brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:36 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 06:43:18 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 06:43:27 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 06:44:19 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:45:50 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:27 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-188-193-145.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:47:15 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 06:48:06 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined 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[~user@S01062cb05d9c7e60.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:32 -!- sodel [~user@S01062cb05d9c7e60.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:57 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.217] has joined #lisp 07:34:21 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.28.201] has joined #lisp 07:39:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-198.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:41:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:43:56 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:43:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:43:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:44:11 chitofan [99145f45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.95.69] has joined #lisp 07:44:14 http://postimage.org/image/xh23yg5zv/ 07:44:20 anybody know how to activate pretty printing? 07:44:24 that option is greyed out for me 07:44:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-11.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:34 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 07:49:03 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 07:51:10 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 07:55:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-3-106.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 07:56:04 chitofan: maybe it works only on selected regions? (i honestly have no idea) 07:56:56 chitofan: are you trying to reformat your source code? then maybe you should not use pretty printing, but C-M-q 07:59:10 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:59:37 -!- chitofan [99145f45@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.95.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:00:06 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:26 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:02:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:03 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:54 chitofan [99141842@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.24.66] has joined #lisp 08:14:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 08:15:04 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 08:17:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-3-106.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:20:03 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-153.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: this computer sucks] 08:20:43 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:20:43 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:20:43 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:20:58 When I fixup a package during hot upgrade, should I fixup new/recycled symbols in *all* packages, or only in those that would cause conflict (i.e. those in the package-used-by-list) ? 08:21:22 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-105-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:16 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-105-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:22:17 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:22:45 if I'm confident that packages that use me will also be upgraded, just avoiding conflicts can be much cheaper, especially if there are lots of packages. 08:22:51 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Client Quit] 08:22:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:23:24 if I want to maintain maximum consistency in a maybe otherwise broken image, I need to iterate over all packages. 08:23:35 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:23:35 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:35 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:24:16 -!- CaptCapt [~1033FA492@pool-173-76-95-224.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Client Quit] 08:25:51 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:25:51 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:25:51 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:26:48 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 08:29:30 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:29:44 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 08:30:31 I suppose I can leave the option to the user 08:31:12 package surgery is hard. 08:32:25 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.28.201] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 08:32:26 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:33:08 -!- ASau [~user@92.116.69.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:35:14 teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 08:35:52 -!- teslalamp [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 08:36:11 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:36:50 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 08:38:23 dbushenko [~dim@ec2-54-242-175-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:50 And it's even worse than I thought. 08:42:26 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has quit 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09:05:07 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:09 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 09:05:24 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 09:06:36 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 09:06:53 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:06:58 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@2a02:6b8:0:40c:b822:7a66:b2ba:91cd] has joined #lisp 09:07:05 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:08:36 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:09:23 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:10:15 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:40 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 09:10:45 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:11:38 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:12:01 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:12:59 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:13:50 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:14:44 anyone finished land of lisp? 09:14:57 i have a problem with the code at page 98, if anyone's interested 09:19:32 -!- reactormonk [~freak@cpe-70-113-86-124.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:21:06 -!- pareidolia [~michaelk@ip104-121-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:21:09 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.75.217] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:22:49 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.38.157] has joined #lisp 09:23:32 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:24:10 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 09:25:21 -!- kennyd 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joined #lisp 09:48:38 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 09:49:24 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@125-239-32-133.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:49:50 reactormonk [~freak@cpe-70-113-86-124.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:22 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:26 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:36 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 09:51:15 -!- dous_ [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:51:33 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:52:38 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.212] has joined #lisp 09:53:14 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.220.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003304.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:47 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 10:02:31 mmm, I didn't expect that 10:02:42 (mapcar #'funcall (loop for day in '(monday tuesday sunday) collect (lambda () day))) is returning (SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY) 10:03:04 -!- chitofan [99141842@gateway/web/freenode/ip.153.20.24.66] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:03:37 another reason for not using LOOP 10:06:36 in that case, yes 10:06:58 dim: (mapcar #'funcall (loop for day in '(monday tuesday sunday) collect (eval `(lambda () (quote ,day))))) 10:07:09 but I admit it's weird to have to do that 10:07:17 it's not weird, it's wrong 10:08:02 -!- rus [~user@27-33-84-138.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:24 morally wrong, that is 10:08:35 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-047-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:47 why not make something with dolist instead of loop? 10:10:05 dim: You should have expected that -- there is only one day variable to be captured. 10:10:35 (let ((day day)) (lambda () day)) should do what you expect. 10:10:36 or this: (mapcar #'funcall (loop for day in '(monday tuesday sunday) collect (let ((day day)) (lambda () day)))) 10:11:13 Zhivago: yeah sure, (mapcar (lambda (day) (lambda () day)) '(monday tuesday sunday)) works right and I can understand it when thinking about it 10:11:21 I still was surprised. because I'm a noob, 10:11:49 I didn't think before testing that the lop construct would bind the unisque same variable to all the produced closures 10:12:08 Zhivago: any feedback on jd__'s approach with eval? 10:13:06 What's the best way to create a bool/bit array/vector? Right now I use something like: (make-array 4 :element-type 'boolean), but this still allows me to set elements with type other than T or NIL..? 10:13:45 cafaro: use bit arrays, then 10:14:59 cafaro: you were using them yesterday, right? 10:15:18 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 10:15:41 jdz: no those were plain numbers (as these were used for array indices) 10:16:20 jdz: this is the same as bit-vector? how do I construct such an array, I couldn't find a good internet resource about this 10:16:36 cafaro: (make-array 4 :element-type 'bit) 10:16:45 oh ok, thanks 10:17:13 dim there is only one day variable. each lambda closes over that variable, which has the value of sunday at the end of the loop 10:17:51 dim try (let* ((x 0) (fun (lambda () x))) (setf x 20) (funcall fun)) 10:17:55 kennyd: yes I can see that now 10:18:15 kennyd: oh I also know how to make what I want 10:18:27 I was just surprised that loop isn't more magic than it already is :) 10:22:28 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:24:30 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:08 When using (loop), I know there's a minimize clause that allows you to get the minimum value of a sequence. Is there a straightforward way to store auxillary data (e.g. a variable) that comes with the minimized value, without having to use additional conditionals or other constructs? 10:25:35 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:27:40 cafaro: Unfortunately not. 10:28:36 i've heard iterate has that 10:31:48 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.12.138] has joined #lisp 10:32:29 yep, the "finding" clause in iterate 10:35:34 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.12.138] has quit [Client Quit] 10:40:13 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:51 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 10:47:54 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:48:45 hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:49:31 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.166.44] has joined #lisp 10:52:38 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@dsl-243-249-05.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 10:53:01 -!- iLogical is now known as ranhento 10:53:14 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 10:53:22 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:53:30 daGrevis [~daGrevis@80.232.135.177] has joined #lisp 10:54:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:55:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:55:06 H4ns: Could you elaborate on the (intended) difference between DRAKMA:HTTP-REQUESTs :real-host and :proxy flags? 10:55:41 dous [~dous@cm73.sigma64.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:55:41 -!- dous [~dous@cm73.sigma64.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Changing host] 10:55:41 dous [~dous@unaffiliated/dous] has joined #lisp 11:00:05 chr: let me dig up the discussion that lead to the feature. 11:06:00 chr: https://github.com/edicl/drakma/pull/17 11:07:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:46 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:09:19 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 11:13:05 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:13:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-3-106.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16:44 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:19:22 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.26.37] has joined #lisp 11:21:29 s0ber [~s0ber@36-229-174-230.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:55 jd__: BTW (mapcar #'funcall (loop for day in '(monday tuesday sunday) collect (let ((d day)) (lambda () d)))) 11:29:08 -!- Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:31:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:32:28 -!- pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 11:33:29 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:34:47 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 11:35:21 whitedawg1 [~whitedawg@122.179.41.160] has joined #lisp 11:37:09 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.38.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:37:15 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:40:00 cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.23.50] has joined #lisp 11:41:02 vityok [~user@193.109.118.129] has joined #lisp 11:41:26 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-125-14.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:41:26 dim: yeah I saw, thanks 11:41:30 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:42:05 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-125-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:42:35 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[~dcooper8@vbn.0059434.lodgenet.net] has left #lisp 13:17:22 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:19:18 dim: are you tapoueh.org? 13:19:24 yes 13:19:30 somehow 13:19:52 dim: may i comment on some piece of code that is in your "lost in scope article"? 13:20:04 sure, that would be my pleasure 13:20:48 dim: is there something missing about (member day (remove-if (lambda (day) (eq day 'monday)) *days*)) that i don't get? i mean, would that not be (not (eql day 'monday))? 13:21:40 yes there's something missing in the text around it, I wondered about making that explicit 13:21:56 (remove 'monday *days*) ? 13:22:11 the example is stretched to the point where it's showing the lack of proper lexical scope in python and ruby 13:22:33 the example is only meaningful if you have a inner-scope (?) binding shadowing an outer-scope (?) one 13:23:03 and I did explicitely keep the examples as given in the other article that I reference, https://my.smeuh.org/al/blog/lost-in-scope 13:23:14 H4ns: is that answering your question? 13:23:23 dim: yes, thanks 13:23:42 do you think I should append that description to the article? 13:23:53 I'm on the edge about doing it myself 13:24:14 dim: i was starting to read it and found the code confusing 13:24:16 I don't want a too long article, but if you lose track on the first code snippet about the article's goal, it's not worth publishing maybe 13:24:19 dim: but that'd just be me. 13:24:34 that's a very polite way to put it :) 13:24:36 how about a better example? 13:25:10 stassats`: I wanted to really follow-up on the original article, where you will find that series of examples in python, ruby and javascript 13:26:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:26:44 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 13:29:13 dim: you could possibly add a footnote saying just that. saying that it's a convoluted example in lisp and that you could use a shorter form too, however that that is besides the point of your article. i haven't read it (yet) though. 13:31:15 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:16 Ok I just added a couple of lines to that effect, just before the code example 13:32:25 thanks for the feedback so far guys :) 13:33:15 LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:18 dim: wouldn't python's lambda demonstrate the same effect? 13:33:33 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.166.44] has joined #lisp 13:33:33 that's what the first article addresses 13:33:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:14 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34:34 callbacks = [lambda day=day: "Today is %s." % day for day in days] 13:34:43 that's their final code example 13:35:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:54 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176367377.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:36:55 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:39:57 Joreji [~thomas@67-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-3-106.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 13:41:21 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176367377.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 13:41:43 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:37 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:eff0:190a:24a2:df97:186a] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44:51 galiley [~user@84.242.165.10] has joined #lisp 13:44:59 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.166.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:31 -!- Joreji 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joined #lisp 14:26:53 Is this reasonable lisp advocacy? http://lisperator.net/blog/why-lisp/ 14:27:19 i don't find anything associated with advocacy to be reasonable 14:28:16 -!- galiley [~user@84.242.165.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:28:52 if you want more people to use it, then just make it better 14:29:05 fix bugs in libraries, implementations, add new features, write new libraries 14:29:16 Eh, but I don't want to use lisp at all. 14:29:17 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:29:35 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:42 JordiGH: why do you ask then? 14:29:49 yeah, provide a parallel gc for multi threaded applications then prove how useful it is :) 14:30:06 inffcs00 [user@nat/ibm/x-uddcpfplyrwbnbwq] has joined #lisp 14:30:25 dim: basic parallel gc wouldn't be that hard (parallel mark phase) 14:30:40 H4ns: Because I just find this article unconvincing and full of fanboyish slogans, but if a majority of lispers think it has a point, I'll defer to the wisdom of the crowds. 14:30:46 JordiGH: this is not the right channel for philological questions 14:31:29 JordiGH: you don't want to be convinced anyway, so your question really is off topic 14:31:33 fe[nl]ix: I'm not asking about the origins of language. 14:31:47 H4ns: On the contrary, I want to be convinced, very much so. 14:31:57 i think it is this attitude that gets us our bad reputation 14:32:11 madnificent: *yawn* 14:32:18 madnificent: what attitude ? 14:32:25 *whine* *whine* the community *whine* *whine* 14:32:55 the one in which people honestly say to people that don't want to learn something new that the knowledged ones will not spend time on them. 14:33:05 lololol 14:33:05 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:33:08 lololoololol 14:33:28 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:33:33 JordiGH: I know of only one way to get convinced by lisp. Find a project you're interested into, and implement it in lisp. 14:33:34 JordiGH: you're one a very long stream of people wanting to be "convinced" 14:33:38 if i were paid a fee for every new lisp user, then i'd change my attitude 14:33:38 JordiGH: this article inspired me http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html 14:34:01 paul graham is a liar 14:34:01 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:17 but, you know, if you want to use common lisp, we'll be happy to help 14:34:29 dim: i don't know. i certainly didn't get the full reason as to why i'd want to stick with lisp from my first project. 14:34:31 H4ns: he's doing advocacy. what did you expect? :) 14:34:31 H4ns: don't you like the feeling that you're above average? 14:34:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:39 dim: I don't know of one. Maxima is the closest thing I can find, but it's 70's style lisp and a very disappointing CAS. Emacs isn't really lisp, right? 14:34:55 H4ns: I'm not sure he's a liar, but a skilled demagogue 14:35:07 madnificent: I'll read that, thanks. 14:35:11 fe[nl]ix: there is little difference between the two. 14:35:13 Emacs Lisp is Lisp alright, maybe the most successful one at it 14:35:29 given a specific set of criteria, of course. 14:35:30 JordiGH: go read PG's stuff, get excited, and then get ready to realize how much of what he wrote was garbage. 14:35:31 dim: I thought lispers called elisp the Perl of lisps. 14:35:51 elisp has too many core API around regexps, I agree with that 14:35:51 if only it were as useful as perl 14:35:52 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for has too many core API around regexps, I agree with that. 14:36:03 elisp is pretty much only good for customizing emacs. :) 14:36:04 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is pretty much only good for customizing emacs. :). 14:36:22 specbot: you suck 14:36:32 sykopomp: some people disagree as much as to put money on it and develop elnode and related services 14:36:58 sykopomp: hey, specbot is touchy and can leave! 14:40:37 stassats`: good riddance 14:42:12 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:42:38 I prefer to keep clhs lookups, thankyouverymuch 14:43:17 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 14:43:24 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 14:44:23 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-105-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:14 TDT [~user@5317-nat00.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:46:05 jason1 [~jason@31.45.165.9] has joined #lisp 14:46:06 JordiGH: what is disappointing in maxima? 14:46:32 prxq: I find it useless for the most basic simplification routines. 14:47:03 prxq: There is some work to fix this by polynomialising expressions, but it's never become part of the core system. 14:47:09 By... Barton Willis? I forget who. 14:47:39 It also has very small integration tables compared to the non-free CASes. 14:47:53 well, i've never found simplification routines in other cas systems terribly useful anyway, 14:48:15 but of course, it cannot compete with the big for-pay cas things. 14:48:28 Back when I was locked in to Maple, man, it was great to grab some big-ass expression, type "simplify(big-ass-expression)" and get back a reasonable-looking result with remarkable regularity. 14:48:41 never worked for me :-) 14:49:16 Maxima has trigsimp, ratsimp, powsimp (I think?) and none of them actually handle everything you could want. 14:49:31 Its solver is also kinda useless; it can only do polynomial expressions, iirc. 14:49:35 JordiGH: what does that tell you about common lisp? 14:49:42 Like, solve(some-equation) 14:49:56 H4ns: Nothing, why? 14:50:09 JordiGH: this channel is about common lisp. 14:50:21 Oh, I didn't know you guys had a topic police on duty. 14:50:24 JordiGH: if you want to discuss computer algebra systems, please go somewhere else. 14:50:26 H4ns: oh come on 14:50:30 prxq: i'm here. 14:50:37 Fine, I'll defer to the topic police and stfu. 14:50:47 JordiGH: thank you 14:50:50 H4ns: if policing becomes too strict, the channel suffers 14:51:20 prxq: right. 14:51:27 too strict? it's clear off-topic 14:51:49 there is nothing wrong with a few lines of that, as it had to do with the topic 14:51:58 stassats`: so what? 14:52:11 so people who are interested in discussing lisp will leave 14:52:15 it's not as if it was about football 14:52:27 stassats`: bullshit 14:52:28 can someone make a remark about how bad the common lisp community is, now, please? 14:52:38 H4ns: it's two people 14:52:47 prxq: many people do leave 14:53:11 stassats`: mostly after being bullied by you, lately 14:53:13 H4ns: not the first time I witness this kind of conflicts, and it's really depressing; here :) 14:53:27 it's permanent, and harms the reputation of the lisp community 14:53:31 galdor: thanks, what a relief! 14:53:49 galdor: there is no lisp community 14:53:53 gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 14:54:00 Now can we start a thread about how threads complaining about other threads are off-topic? 14:54:03 Cause, seriously. 14:54:05 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:07 well let's just all leave #lisp then 14:54:15 foom: we could also discuss threads in general 14:54:28 -!- dbushenko [~dim@ec2-54-242-175-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:35 is it wednesday? 14:54:48 adeht: in some timezones, yes 14:55:02 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:06 H4ns: which kind, the email ones or the new openbsd ones? 14:55:30 textile ones? 14:55:53 -!- loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:37 anyhow, CL has no threads in the standard, so either kind is off-topic 14:56:47 loke_erc [~user@c-4957e555.012-14-67626717.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:57:16 stassats`: just because I'm curious: do you mean that discussion bordeaux-threads is off-topic because threads are not in the standard ? 14:57:25 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-230-104.eurotel.cz] has joined #lisp 14:57:33 galdor: better ask the topic police. :) 14:57:37 oh sorry, didn't read your message correctly 14:57:49 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.86.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58:34 -!- whitedawg1 [~whitedawg@122.179.41.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58:58 well a thing I learned is that any community (think forum, mailing list or chat) that kills off-topic conversations ultimately kills the community, but this very kind of message is off-topic, so I'll shut up :) 14:59:31 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 14:59:32 try #lispcafe 14:59:48 you can discuss any wild theories about lisp communities there 14:59:52 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:59 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:00:19 Let's just say that some people here have had a bunch of arguments about already so they are probably both a bit edgy. I don't blame either of them. 15:00:21 -!- Urfin [~user@213.57.184.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:01:37 k0001 [~k0001@host132.190-138-106.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:02:13 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 15:05:16 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:05:56 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:06:53 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:07:33 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 15:07:36 cfy` [~ilisp@122.231.23.50] has joined #lisp 15:08:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-144-25.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:34 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:45 ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.254] has joined #lisp 15:13:24 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.20.162] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 15:15:59 -!- svetlyak40wt_ [~svetlyak4@dhcp175-196-red3.yandex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:21 pavelpenev [~quassel@87-126-133-251.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 15:16:33 hitecnologys1 [~hitecnolo@46.233.230.149] has joined #lisp 15:17:29 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:35 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.26.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20:45 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:37 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 15:22:00 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:43 pavelpenev_ [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:24:27 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@87-126-133-251.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:24:42 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24:53 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.20.162] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 15:25:15 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:27:01 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:30:15 LWA [~lwa@p54A3ABB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:34 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:36 afairchild [~user@ec2-23-21-196-222.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:41 -!- ranhento [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:30:45 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:08 hi all 15:31:46 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:55 -!- pavelpenev_ is now known as pavelpenev 15:31:58 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:18 zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:20 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:31 ahungry: hi 15:32:31 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:32:52 -!- hitecnologys1 is now known as hitecnologys 15:34:23 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-031-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:01 -!- CrLF0710` [~user@114.96.64.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:33 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:56 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:37:14 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.230.149] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:37:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:38:32 -!- afairchild [~user@ec2-23-21-196-222.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:38:54 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.230.149] has joined #lisp 15:42:54 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:43:29 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:44:13 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:41 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 15:44:58 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 15:44:59 -!- cfy [~ilisp@122.231.23.50] has quit [Changing host] 15:44:59 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:45:22 *stassats`* can't believe that somebody is arguing on openmcl-devel@ that an implementation may disregard function evalution rules of CL 15:45:48 stassats`: you work on CCL? 15:45:56 nope 15:45:57 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 15:46:14 ok, I keep my stupid questions then :) 15:46:15 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 15:46:39 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.41.160] has joined #lisp 15:47:11 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 15:47:38 well, i'd write that off as an ignorant trolling attempt, but it comes from Ron Garret, who, supposedly, should know better 15:48:27 RG has a track record, though 15:48:31 k0001_ [~k0001@host229.186-125-102.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:49:02 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:13 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.41.160] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:14 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:18 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 15:50:36 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.86.149] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host132.190-138-106.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:25 i liked "the spec is not scripture" part the most 15:53:27 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:28 "you found a bug in SBCL? well, tough luck, clhs is not a scripture" 15:53:56 stassats`: luckily, it was ron garrett, not gary byers, who uttered that nonsense 15:53:58 -!- JordiGH [~jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH] has left #lisp 15:54:09 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:40 Gary will likely say, "Oops", and post a fix within minutes, though I shouldn't speak for him... 15:54:42 stassats`: gary byers is pretty quick with fixing anything that is a clear bug, i'd say. the < shortcut problem has already been fixed. 15:55:31 H4ns: yeah, i know, i'm just shocked that anyone will entertain such a notion 15:55:35 But he may be sleeping... 15:56:25 that cpu guy in brackets has short circuiting "<", but it's his own language, not CL 15:56:26 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has joined #lisp 15:56:42 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.230.149] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:58:30 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:59 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-235-27.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:03:11 ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has joined #lisp 16:04:02 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 16:04:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:05:04 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:07:10 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:10:57 kilon_alios [~kilon@77.49.242.179.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:11:45 from a stylistical point of view, I can understand RG's comment, though. Using < in that way is nasty. 16:12:39 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:12:46 i don't see anything wrong with (< 0 x (incf y)) 16:14:07 or (< 0 x (funcall foo)). What's next, forcing us to code in A-normal form? 16:14:13 stassats`: you might argue that it's doing two 'things' at once. on the one hand, it's performing a check of some sort, on the other end it's performing a mutation. 16:14:39 madnificent: well, yes, however you call it 16:15:24 stassats`: you could argue that that's a bad thing. to be fair, in such simple example, i don't think i'd mind at all. 16:15:54 i don't see how (progn (incf y) (< 0 x y)) is more stylistically pleasant 16:16:08 pkhuong: they might even force us to use only s-expressions in the future o_O (only half-kidding) 16:16:13 -!- jason1 [~jason@31.45.165.9] has quit [Quit: jason1] 16:16:22 stassats`: agreed 16:16:54 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-230-104.eurotel.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:26 besides, any style arguments are thrown out of the window when it comes to auto-generated code 16:19:26 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 16:19:27 -!- kilon [~kilon@77.49.242.179.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Changing host] 16:19:27 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 16:20:48 well, I agree that short-circuiting < is not acceptable. 16:21:02 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:11 stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.46.190] has joined #lisp 16:21:26 or just disregarding any unambiguous standard prescription 16:21:39 heh, that's a fun point-of-view: it's a *bug* in the spec that < is a function instead of a macro. 16:22:14 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:20 jslisp fixes that! 16:22:34 -!- inffcs00 [user@nat/ibm/x-uddcpfplyrwbnbwq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:57 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:13 prxq: why is that? 16:24:41 -!- Sizur [~eugene@50-193-2-233-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:24:58 Sizur [~eugene@50-193-2-233-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:14 spacefrogg: it's in the spec that it shouldn't, so it shouldn't. 16:26:17 even if we were writing the spec, introducing random subtle differences between operators would turn it into C++ 16:26:52 *stassats`* waits to hear from all the offended C++ users 16:26:59 but OR and AND are short-circuiting too 16:27:10 they are not functions 16:27:18 and that's what they are made for 16:27:26 that's no argument 16:27:40 that's no argument 16:27:45 if you are writing the spec, you define what things are made for 16:28:01 Joreji [~thomas@67-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:32 -!- Sizur [~eugene@50-193-2-233-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:33 so, there's only one short-circuiting general purpose operator, IF 16:28:55 AND and OR are just sugar for the ease of use 16:29:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:29:22 forget about my remarks. I just realised the difference between a predicate and an operator 16:29:38 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:46 operator is a term which includes both functions, macros and special operators 16:30:10 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:30:24 special operator* 16:30:34 Urfin [~user@213.57.184.94] has joined #lisp 16:30:40 (and its sugar on top) 16:31:01 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 to conclude: »short-circuiting < is not acceptable.« 16:31:33 so, say, why have AND and OR and not just IF? well, because it's useful to express common patterns 16:31:58 why not have short-circuiting >? because it's rarely useful and only confusing 16:32:14 C++ has random subtle differences *between* operators? What about random subtle differences for a single operator: the comma operator is totally awesome. :) 16:33:32 scheme, on the other hand, doesn't guarantee the order of function argument evaluation, just that they're evaluated 16:33:44 and having written in scheme, i find that very annoying 16:35:30 werwerwer [~1@158.181.215.212] has joined #lisp 16:35:37 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@88.169.254.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:03 davidbrenneman [davidbrenn@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:7b28] has joined #lisp 16:36:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:05 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 16:36:16 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:46 foom: boost spirit isn't awesome. it's insane ;) 16:39:27 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-245-201.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:18 X = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9; // quick, what does that do? 16:40:43 The variable X is unbound. [Condition of type OFF-TOPIC] 16:41:07 lol 16:41:19 Correct answer. :) 16:41:19 stassats`: I want a list of restarts 16:42:00 jasom: [RETRY] Say something about CL [ABORT] Remain silent [ABORT] Quit 16:42:08 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:58 1 16:45:44 -!- ykm [~ykm@124.155.255.254] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:45:58 -!- Urfin [~user@213.57.184.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:46:18 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 16:46:53 AeroNotix [~xeno@abos139.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:48:35 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:50:55 If I have a file with a function that is within a package (for example (defun.... (sqlite:execute ...and I want to compile this file only and load it into an image where the package is already precompiled, how would I do? I tried eval-when execute but still it complains that the sqlite package is not defined (yet) ? 16:50:55 francogrex, memo from pjb: Check com.informatimago.clext.character-sets and com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.character-sets 16:50:58 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 16:51:36 francogrex: then your eval-when was wrong 16:51:45 For the first time ever, I just read a post that lists application delivery as a major strength of lisp. 16:52:39 as contrary to "people will find anything to complain about": "people will find anything to praise" 16:53:58 how do you take care of binding problem? manual or tools like Verrazano, c2ffi? 16:54:31 manual + cffi-grovel works fine for me 16:55:36 stassats`: thanks 16:56:33 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-047-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:39 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:56:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:57:12 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:29 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:36 -!- cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:59:32 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:59:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:03:10 I just read http://tapoueh.org/blog/2013/01/09-Lost-in-scope.html The form (loop for day in *days* collect (lambda () day)) from the section "callback" kind of confused me a bit, it creates a list of closures, which when evaluated all produce 'sunday. After reading the hyperspec for a few minutes, I figured it out, but I want confirmation if my reasoning is correct. So loop establishes a lexical environment, and binds day to nil, and the lambdas capture 17:03:10 this environment, but then with each iteration, the environment is modified(the old binding is reused), which means that closures refer to the same environment, and don't copy it? 17:03:15 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 17:03:33 it's unspecified 17:03:52 loop can either set one or bind new variables on each iteration 17:03:52 stassats`: I am using (eval-when (:LOAD-TOPLEVEL) (defun ... (sqlite:exec...))) 17:04:04 francogrex: and that is wrong 17:04:08 there's only one day variable in all the loop, and the closures close over that single variable. that's my understanding 17:04:16 francogrex: use (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) 17:04:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:27 no doubt but where, I should use inside the function? 17:04:50 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:04:59 stassats`: so it is permitted for (mapcar #'funcall *callbacks-all-sunday*) to return '(monday tuesday ...) ? 17:05:26 pavelpenev: absolutely 17:05:32 still READ error during COMPILE-FILE Package SQLITE does not exist 17:05:40 if you want to ensure that, you could define the closures with (loop for day in '(monday tuesday sunday) collect (let ((d day)) (lambda () d))) 17:05:50 that let here forces it do behave properly 17:05:54 do I have to load it before anyway? 17:06:00 stassats`: I didn't know about that unspecified parts... 17:06:07 interesting trap :) 17:06:08 francogrex: i just told you how to fix that! 17:06:15 I did what you said 17:06:25 still the error I wrote above 17:07:01 *pavelpenev* looks up loop in the hyperspec 17:07:05 ah, i didn't look what you're calling inside eval-when 17:07:13 francogrex: you need to load sqlite there! 17:07:14 Urfin [~user@213.57.184.94] has joined #lisp 17:07:19 not to use defun 17:07:27 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:07:51 dim, pavelpenev: and the same is true for DOLIST and friends 17:08:04 ok then that's it, must load it. Thanks 17:08:41 "Lisp has expired" good to know, allegro 17:09:01 better throw it out before it starts to smell funny 17:11:29 "It is implementation-dependent whether dolist establishes a new binding of var on each iteration or whether it establishes a binding for var once at the beginning and then assigns it on any subsequent iterations. " but maybe I missed that part about loop. 17:12:40 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 17:14:31 well, maybe it's guaranteed to for loop, needs to be checked 17:16:58 stassats`: well, clhs says that variables are stepped, the glosary for step says "to assign the variable a new value at the end of an iteration, in preparation for a new iteration", the glossary for "assign" says "to change the value of the variable in a binding that has already been established." 17:18:06 gonzojive [~red@c-76-21-6-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:31 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:19:44 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:09 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089CD73.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:49 pavelpenev: yeah, that suggests that it's guaranteed 17:22:06 can i use the "spec is not a scripture" defence? 17:23:42 stassats`: as in, "I only memorize scripture, so I didn't do it to the spec"? yeah, sure :) 17:24:02 pavelpenev: no, it's a reference to an earlier discussion 17:24:30 so, do and loop guarantee assignment, but dolist and dotimes do not 17:24:48 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 17:25:02 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:02 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.227] has joined #lisp 17:25:04 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:25:12 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:16 no word for do-symbols 17:28:38 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:29:13 -!- xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:19 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:23 hi 17:29:35 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 17:29:48 xliweinan [~liweinan@123.117.220.36] has joined #lisp 17:30:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-239.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:31:33 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:31:54 -!- kanru`` [~kanru@217.243.168.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:32:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-161.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:34:17 Hello friends. What's a nice way to produce & initialize a vector where the value at each index is the index itself? I can think of a few ways, am looking for other interesting ideas. 17:34:18 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-76-21-6-123.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 17:34:24 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:34:39 e.g. (aref v 0) => 0, ..., (aref v 100) => 100, etc 17:35:29 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.86.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:23 k0001 [~k0001@host106.181-1-201.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:36:56 I'd use loop I guess 17:37:48 (loop with v = (make-array '(100)) for i below 100 do (setf (aref v i) i) finally (return v)) 17:37:53 but I'm naive that way 17:38:38 (let ((i 0)) (map-into (make-array '(100)) (lambda (x) (incf i))))) 17:39:00 (coerce (loop for i from 0 to 100 collect i) 'vector) 17:39:09 dlowe: -1, but yeah 17:39:33 and no arg on the lambda 17:39:34 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host229.186-125-102.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:39 right 17:40:34 at least it doesn't require a temp list to be consed 17:40:41 (make-array 100 :initial-contents (alexandria:iota 100)) 17:40:43 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:42:58 I like (make-array 100 :initial-contents (loop for i below 100 collect i)), and I still have to get used to "iota" I guess :) 17:44:01 dim: I was aiming for a declarative-ish solution 17:44:33 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:45:10 loop is how they taught me to do it in C :) 17:45:47 hehe, avoiding loop is often counter productive, it seems, but yeah 17:46:03 is "iota" meaning something? 17:47:07 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:27 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 17:48:47 dim: APL used the greek letter iota for integer intervals according to wikipedia. 17:48:55 urandom__ [~user@p54B0E8C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:55 not portable: (let ((i -1)) `#100(,(incf i))) 17:49:07 ha 17:49:23 that is certainly an interesting idea 17:49:58 (works on ccl and the latest SBCL from git) 17:50:30 I actually ran into not one, but two full-time APL devs not too long ago 17:51:40 stassats`: seems to work in clisp too 17:51:43 that #100 is a reader macro trick? 17:52:11 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:52:43 clhs #( 17:52:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhc.htm 17:53:12 dim: #100(...) is syntax for array with dimension 100 17:53:22 pavelpenev: doesn't work on ecl, abcl, lw 17:53:22 oh I did know about #(), didn't know about #100(), silly me 17:54:08 is there a way to have that trick portable thanks to #.? 17:54:19 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:54:25 #100() is actually unspecified 17:54:29 I guess not, because #. would not have the reader evaluate for each cell of the vector? 17:54:32 #100(x) is 17:56:31 `#100(,(incf i)) seems like it's non compliant if it generates anything other than an array with all the same value 17:56:50 well, it's really not specified what happens 17:56:56 almost but not quite out of package hell 17:57:01 i'd go with (make-array 100 :initial-contents (alexandria:iota 100)) (or vector equivalent) as i think it's the easiest to understand. 17:57:21 (let ((i -1)) (symbol-macrolet ((x (incf i))) `#100(,x))) 17:57:42 ASau [~user@46.115.40.200] has joined #lisp 17:57:52 dim: it can return all 0 17:57:52 no, I don't see any advantage into using that :) 17:58:05 in ccl it works, at least 17:58:09 the same as with direct incf 17:58:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:58:30 dim: doesn't work in sbcl 1.1.0 17:58:38 my understanding of symbol-macrolet was that it was evaluated each time you referenced it? 17:58:56 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:14 ouch... my package surgery tricks might be working when loading source, but not when loading fasl. 18:00:42 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:23 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-78-23.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:02:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:02:38 *jasom* is going to have to re-read the reader algorithm, but the docs for #( say "the last object" is repeated, not last form. 18:03:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:03:55 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 18:04:33 jasom: well, that depends on what ` does 18:04:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:46 not just on #( 18:05:01 dim: incf is evaluated each time it's referenced as well 18:05:01 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:05:59 aha, backtick on a #( is ambiguous 18:06:19 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:51 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:55 *sykopomp* likes rme's response better than all the other ones. 18:09:16 no, no it's not... `#(x1 x2 x3 ... xn) may be interpreted to mean (apply #'vector `(x1 x2 x3 ... xn)) and An implementation is free to interpret a backquoted form F1 as any form F2 that, when evaluated, will produce a result that is the same under equal as the result implied by the above definition, provided that the side-effect behavior of the substitute form F2 is also consistent with the description given above. The constructed copy of the temp 18:12:24 Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has joined #lisp 18:12:32 hmm standard doesn't say anything about what it should do when a vector has a length operand. `#10(1) => #(1) on ecl for example 18:12:45 jasom: that has been fixed 18:13:02 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:13:45 stassats`: I'm on 12.12.1; is there a newer version? 18:13:51 the git version 18:14:32 if you just do in a macro `(defun foo () #10(1)) i'm sure you're going to expect the same as '#10(1) 18:14:48 all other cases with , inside might be ambiguous and rarely used 18:15:14 stassats`: `#10(,foo bar) is not ambiguous though, right? 18:15:32 right, and that's not fixed still in ecl 18:15:44 but what about `#10(,@(1 2) bar) ? 18:15:58 `#10(,@'(1 2) bar) rather 18:17:04 when is ecl going to fix their makefiles for parallel make? 18:17:25 is that a rhetorical question? 18:17:27 dbushenko [~dim@178.121.75.142] has joined #lisp 18:18:29 just an annoyance 18:18:48 well, nobody here is in a position to answer that question 18:18:58 so yes, I guess 18:19:16 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 18:19:31 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:10 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:20:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-3-106.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:37 <_schulte_> In pursuit of concise currying I wrapped the following reader macros around the Alexandria functions, http://sprunge.us/eNYK?common-lisp. Thought I'd share them and see if anyone saw any potential problems with their use (before I start updateing my code). Thanks 18:26:12 concise doesn't mean good, you know 18:26:43 or we all would be using APL 18:27:02 jason1 [~jason@31.45.165.9] has joined #lisp 18:28:17 but how will you have hash table and vector reader syntax now?! :( 18:28:19 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:28:36 sykopomp: #( 18:28:43 pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:58 too quoted! 18:29:15 [a b c] or bust. That's what all the hip lisps do now. 18:29:51 too quoted? 18:30:17 as the great thinker brucio said, concision is equivalent to powerfulness 18:30:33 <_schulte_> stassats`: yea, I know, but I hate breaking lines for simple maps, and I curry more than I use vectors or hashes 18:30:56 the more characters you type, the less expressive your language is. 18:31:55 _schulte_: as a general tip -- it doesn't really matter what you do in your own project, so feel free to go nuts with stuff like this. If you expect others to work on it, you should expect abuse. :) 18:33:56 <_schulte_> sykopomp: that sounds fair 18:34:51 I also haven't seen very many nice things being said about macros that do this sort of micro-optimization of lambda/curry/compose. Reader or otherwise. I don't find them that useful, myself. 18:36:53 <_schulte_> sykopomp: when you say hash table syntax, you mean customizations like this https://gist.github.com/1044553, or is there something built into CL that I don't know about? 18:37:13 no built-in 18:37:51 <_schulte_> oh, I'll have to look into that, thanks 18:37:57 <_schulte_> also, I do admit I spend too much time tweaking code to reduce line breaks 18:38:25 _schulte_: yes. Nonsense like that. 18:38:37 look into what? 18:38:53 <_schulte_> oh, sorry, I read "no built-in" as "no, built-in" 18:39:34 _schulte_: note that (vector 1 2 3 4) isn't too much longer than [1 2 3 4], and (mkhash :a 1 :b 2) isn't much longer than {:a 1 :b 2} where (defun mkhash (&rest keys-and-values) (alexandria:plist-hash-table keys-and-values)) 18:40:07 and vector/mkhash are actually first-class, so I favor them even more :) 18:40:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:42:04 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:15 _schulte_: how about getting a wider display instead? 18:44:37 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mludhuiluqitrwkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:46 <_schulte_> nope, I think the 79-char limit is important 18:45:06 <_schulte_> especially when you may collaborate (<- realizes the contraction RE: custom reader macros) 18:45:16 well, i'll take 120 char code over random reader macros any time 18:45:23 <_schulte_> fair 18:45:44 -!- adeht [void@213.251.177.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:45:55 or what about a taller display? more line-breaks! 18:48:27 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has left #lisp 18:48:56 mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has joined #lisp 18:49:32 -!- pjb-v [~t@voyager.informatimago.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:13 _death [void@213.251.177.42] has joined #lisp 18:50:38 pessoa: dim: all the loops are specified so that the loop variable can be assigned by the implementation, instead of creating a new binding at each iteration. Therefore to create a closure with the value of the loop variable, you must always use LET. (loop for v in  do  (let ((v v)) (lambda () v)) ) 18:50:56 120 is a good standard, I can print it with line numbers on my 132 column printer 18:51:20 pessoa: Common Lisp is a low level programming language! 18:51:38 oh, it's the time for rehashing today's discussions 18:52:09 that's why I prefer high level lisps like newlisp 18:52:12 pjb-v [~t@88.198.62.69] has joined #lisp 18:52:19 oh boy 18:53:06 ... 18:53:11 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:53:29 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:38 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:53:59 <_schulte_> jasom: as far as there is are global standard (and there really aren't), I believe 79 it is (although probably for historical more than practical reasons) 18:54:05 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 18:54:19 i like 80 more! 18:54:32 _schulte_: it's 12 characters per inch; so 1" margins on US letter paper is 79 18:54:38 but landscape it's 132 18:54:40 cafaro: what are you talking about? http://paste.lisp.org/+2VSX 18:55:05 pessoa: try (+ 1000000000000000000000000000000 2222222222222222222222222222222) in newLISP. 18:55:20 (with no margins) 18:55:24 pessoa: it's not for nothing that "LISP" is spelled "L" "I" "S" "P" in "newLISP"! 18:55:31 can we refrain from discussing newlisp? 18:55:42 it usually ends badly 18:55:58 and is arguably off-topic ;) 18:56:13 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 18:56:13 <_schulte_> oh, I didn't realize 79 mapped to letter paper 18:57:12 _schulte_: 72 or 79 depending on your margins was a typewriter thing 18:57:37 this is #lisp, not #commonlisp 18:58:15 pessoa: It is de facto Common Lisp. 18:58:20 And de jure. 18:58:45 JordiGH: http://lisperator.net/blog/why-lisp/ seems to be factual and truthful, so I'd say good. 18:58:48 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 18:58:49 *jasom* points at the topic. The topic says common lisp, thereore the topic is common lisp, right? 18:58:55 -!- svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:59:32 "it is caled #scheme, so it is the proper place to discuss my ponzi #scheme!" 19:00:12 pjb: ok, in clisp 2.49 it works in the REPL, and returns: #(HI T T T), but :element-type 'bit does work nicely 19:00:26 what is ponzi scheme? a new implmentation? 19:00:30 -!- seangrove [~user@74.113.221.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:54 pessoa: go ahead, ask in #scheme. it is in their alley 19:01:06 pessoa: i'm joking. #lisp is about common lisp, that is all. 19:01:28 -!- pareidolia [~michaelk@ip104-121-210-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:02:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.220.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:26 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos139.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 19:03:06 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:04:46 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:09 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:05:56 -!- _death [void@213.251.177.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:43 _death [void@213.251.177.42] has joined #lisp 19:07:11 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 19:08:14 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:11 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:31 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:31 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:15:58 brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has joined #lisp 19:18:31 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:19:28 minion: memo for francogrex: in any case, you need to have the package defined before the function! Since you cannot evaluate defpackage on a package that is already defined, you only have one choice: load a file that defines the package before the file that define the function, OR don't use defpackage. You can write (unless (find-package :sqlite) (make-package :sqlite :use '(:cl))) (export 'sqlite::execute :sqlite) (defun 19:19:28 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 19:19:28 sqlite:execute ) ; you can write (unless (find-package :sqlite) (make-package :sqlite :use '(:cl))) in other files. 19:19:46 minion: memo for francogrex: sqlite:execute ) ; you can write (unless (find-package :sqlite) (make-package :sqlite :use '(:cl))) in other files, too. 19:19:46 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 19:20:09 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.32.123] has joined #lisp 19:20:20 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:34 pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:23:22 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:53 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 19:25:31 afairchild [~user@ec2-23-21-196-222.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:56 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:27:42 -!- dbushenko [~dim@178.121.75.142] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:21 ok, define-package is basically working, BUT, it's not doing the right thing wrt packages that :use the one being redefined. 19:32:22 -!- pnpuff [~dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Greensleeves...] 19:32:44 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 19:33:35 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:21 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@121.11.46.190] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 19:39:31 k0001_ [~k0001@host159.190-229-209.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:41:00 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:42:54 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host106.181-1-201.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:56 pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 19:45:18 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:45:51 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:46:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:11 *Xach* has *almost* got a rpw3 comp.lang.lisp search engine going 19:47:46 gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 19:48:53 Xach: what do you use for the text index? 19:49:16 Xach: also, thanks for tweeting that vimeo link on magit, it was nice 19:51:56 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:54:04 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 19:58:19 what's rpw3 ? 19:58:51 realy powerful www? 19:59:56 Xach: it's nice to see you again. 19:59:58 Robert P. Warnock 20:01:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.228.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:04:18 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:15 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 20:05:21 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:10:24 -!- pnpuff [~Dioxirane@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:10:39 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11:23 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:45 Once I get this ironed out, kmp and jrm shouldn't be too hard 20:11:55 _zxq9_ [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-167-168.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 20:12:29 *Xach* daydreams about making the entire archive online & searchable 20:13:04 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:13:15 svetlyak40wt [~svetlyak4@broadband-95-84-141-55.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:20 I would use some nntp node/leaf server with a PostgreSQL backend, and use that database as the basis for the publishing online? 20:14:24 This is not a living archive, it's a snapshot from 1980 to 2009 or so 20:14:36 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-119-244-165-71.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:15:07 oh, right. so you would load the data once, not continously 20:15:13 I wonder how much it changes the problem 20:15:15 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:31 apart that you dont need to run the nttp frontend/leaf at all 20:16:00 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 Xach: is this the thing where you were using a bitfield trick for text search? 20:17:07 is there a way to explode a list into atoms that are accept by a function as separate arguments? ie  20:17:09 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:10 silenius [~silenius@brln-4db9fb2c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:11  20:17:33 sykopomp: yes 20:17:37 (+ '(2 2 2 2)) 20:17:46 przl: (apply #'+ '(2 2 2 2)) 20:17:55 (reduce '+ '(2 2 2 2)) 20:18:00 sykopomp: i rewrote it so it does everything from disk instead of in-memory 20:18:12 clhs call-arguments-limit 20:18:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_call_a.htm 20:18:19 przl: ^^^ 20:18:20 sykopomp: that will make it easier to support larger archives. 20:18:30 thanks 20:19:02 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-211-174-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:19:40 the naggum search system is all in-memory. it takes a long time to load the first time. it has a bunch of hand-tweaking that makes it hard to apply to another author. 20:19:59 this new system lazy-loads just the data it needs on demand, so queries are both fast and don't use much memory. 20:20:28 Xach: not a fan of mmap hacks? (: 20:20:51 Don't know how to do it. 20:21:34 -!- jason1 [~jason@31.45.165.9] has quit [Quit: jason1] 20:22:33 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:00 jsnell blogged about that in SBCL around 2006... but the lisppaste snippet is now gone. 20:25:26 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:27:25 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:27:59 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:59 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:34 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:11 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-78-23.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over the world of IRC.] 20:31:39 pjb: + forms a monoid. but i'm trying to write (custom-theme-set-faces 'solarized (solarized-faces 'dark)), where (solarized-faces 'dark) should expand to faces arguments. since custom-theme-set-faces does not form a monoid, i can't reduce the list 20:32:26 przl: you can define your own monoidal operators. 20:32:34 or just use apply? 20:32:37 przl: and mind the :key argument of reduce. 20:32:55 Or just apply, but then don't use + as a typical example of your requirements. 20:33:46 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-204-75-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:36:08 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:37:06 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:07 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:40:34 gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 20:41:18 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:41:28 thanks, you've been helpful. time to go and read a lisp book 20:41:28 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:45:42 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:46:11 pkhuong: which number does it have? 20:47:33 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:48:37 stassats: I closed that tab half an hour ago. 20:49:58 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-232-219.eurotel.cz] has joined #lisp 20:50:25 francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has joined #lisp 20:51:11 is this a valid warning: STYLE-WARNING: SLOT-VALUE is deprecated, use GETPROP instead ? 20:51:11 francogrex, memo from pjb: in any case, you need to have the package defined before the function! Since you cannot evaluate defpackage on a package that is already defined, you only have one choice: load a file that defines the package before the file that define the function, OR don't use defpackage. You can write (unless (find-package :sqlite) (make-package :sqlite :use '(:cl))) (export 'sqlite::execute :sqlite) (defun 20:51:11 francogrex, memo from pjb: sqlite:execute ) ; you can write (unless (find-package :sqlite) (make-package :sqlite :use '(:cl))) in other files, too. 20:51:51 pjb: ok thanks 20:52:55 francogrex: probably not for a CL operator. Are you sure you're using CL? 20:54:27 I uses parenscript got this weird message, ok I understand probably coming from there, I didn't know they had slot-value as well 20:54:29 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:55:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:04 So that must be js:slot-value and js:getprop. Do as they say. 20:56:43 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-232-219.eurotel.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:21 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:58:05 in LOOP, when i WHEN (sometest) RETURN blabla, how can I intercept the value of (sometest) to return it later in RETURN (values )? 20:58:39 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:44 (loop for result = (sometest) when result do (return result)) 20:58:53 ok 20:59:02 thought there might be a shortcut with IT or AS 20:59:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:13 but that wouldn't work :) 20:59:17 perhaps it, I don't know. 21:00:01 what wouldn't work? 21:00:57 ikki [~ikki@187.208.238.176] has joined #lisp 21:01:58 francogrex: i tried WHEN (sometest) AS result 21:02:11 RETURN (VALUES some-counter result) 21:02:22 ok I see 21:02:41 but that's just plain incorrect. 21:03:46 Xach: something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/134531. 21:05:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:05:34 jsnell's was more portable, because it packed the header in the data file itself, but this ought to work if SBCL runs at all. 21:06:04 -!- mjs2600 [~user@50.55.138.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:07:51 Thanks 21:09:18 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 21:09:37 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 21:10:00 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5089CD73.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:33 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:12:34 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:49 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:21 brandonz [~brandon@adsl-108-200-141-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:54 -!- hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:16:28 hpd [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 21:24:44 -!- elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:57 sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:26:57 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has left #lisp 21:28:02 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:30:14 -!- cryptic [~cryptic@pool-71-125-31-38.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:31:51 juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-232-219.eurotel.cz] has joined #lisp 21:33:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@134.176-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:35:47 gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 21:37:01 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 21:40:43 francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has joined #lisp 21:41:39 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:44:01 zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 21:44:06 -!- Jambato [~Jambato@2a01:e35:2f15:c40:211:d8ff:fe7d:2c4a] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:37 elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 21:45:47 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-162-165-225.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:16 hey guys. 21:50:57 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:51:47 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:15 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:20 stefan` [~user@gssn-4d003304.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:06:02 -!- juxovec [~juxovec@ip-37-188-232-219.eurotel.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:06:18 so how do you typically walk a list in groups of N elements, N being dynamic? 22:06:43 I just done it with a macro around a destructing-bind trick, but I'm curious 22:06:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:07:18 the static version of that trick is (loop while data collect (destructuring-bind (a b c d &rest next) data (setf data next) (new-mdls-file-attributes a b c d)) for grouping by 4 elements 22:07:57 and new-mdls-file-attributes is a boa constructor from a defstruct 22:09:14 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:54 dim: subseq/nthcdr. Alexandria might have both in a single call. 22:10:03 dim: (loop for data in foo by #'cddddr ...) could be helpful 22:10:22 madnificent: the idea is to generalize that 22:10:26 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-109-243-221-182.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:11:27 pkhuong: do you mean like (loop for data on biglist by (lambda (l) (nthcdr N l)) collect (subseq data 0 N))? 22:11:57 dim: like (loop for (a b c d) on data by (curry #'nthcdr 4) do stuff) ? 22:12:44 yeah but even the (a b c d) must be dynamic sometimes 22:12:57 I would have gone with (setf (values subseq list) ...) and a while loop. 22:12:59 so ok I found it non trivial (spent 30 mins on it), seems for some reasons 22:12:59 you don't know the variable names? 22:13:02 thanks 22:13:20 mmm, setf values. I need to go relearn that trick... 22:13:27 *madnificent* doesn't seem grasp the issue 22:13:30 but it was in elisp in that very case, so... no luck I guess 22:13:45 *drewc* yells out 'that is not a curry, that is "partial application" :) 22:14:10 madnificent: get extra attributes from a file system, user given attribute list, and the OS command is returning a single list of them 22:14:18 in: (loop for i to 5 with foo = 5), is it possible to modify foo in each loop iteration? 22:14:28 for foo = 5 22:14:50 cafaro: for foo = 5 then (* foo 2) 22:15:08 dim: could you use more words? 22:15:46 dim: (loop for data in foo by (curry nth-cdr n) ) 22:16:04 in/by? 22:16:11 or on. 22:16:18 just a typo :-) 22:16:19 -!- stefan` [~user@gssn-4d003304.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 22:16:33 ok, I was wondering about it :) 22:16:39 i think it should be on + (subseq data 0 4) for getting the partial list, as pkhuong suggested. 22:16:49 That said, once you have n, you want to avoid O(n^2), so you'd rather use split-list. 22:17:06 that I don't have in elisp, do I did with a macro 22:17:24 madnificent: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134530#2 (pjb too maybe now) 22:18:12 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 22:18:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d003304.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:18:48 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 22:19:07 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:14 -!- Urfin [~user@213.57.184.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:19:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-161.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:18 pkhuong: ok I can't write the code you were alluding to 22:20:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-161.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:20:49 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:14 i see code, i don't see the intention, nor the grouping 22:22:16 I don't follow. 22:22:41 madnificent: and it's not even cl! 22:22:57 how would you use (setf (values subseq list ) ...) in a while loop to iterate by groups of 5 in a list of 25 elements, say? 22:23:28 mjs2600 [~user@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:34 stassats: we could deem it off topic and let the issue slide ;) 22:23:58 madnificent: you're given a list of 25 elements, you want to process them in groups of 5 numbers are dynamic, it's always a list of N*M entries, users get to pick how many elements in the list per entries 22:24:09 in a good world you would have received a list of lists 22:24:20 the tool is too dumb for that, so that's not what you have 22:24:29 (loop with subseq while list do (setf (values subseq list) ...) ) 22:24:57 ok I still don't understand :( 22:25:08 (defun group-by-n (n list) (loop for items in list by (curry #'nthcdr n) collect (subseq items 0 n))) 22:25:19 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 22:25:46 that's on list 22:25:49 madnificent: you have a bug, replace in by on 22:25:51 yes 22:27:02 thanks for input guys 22:28:34 (defun group-list (list n) (loop while list collect (loop repeat n while list collect (pop list)))) 22:29:18 (in my case I couldn't use that in elisp because I want to apply each sublist to the boa-constructor of a defstruct, and I get Symbol's function definition is void: new-mdls-file-attributes, but that's off topic now) (I then wondered how CL guys would approach that problem because subseq each time didn't appear very good to me for some reasons) 22:29:26 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:30:42 -!- brandonz [~brandon@adsl-108-200-141-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 22:30:44 i have a macro which calls several functions to expand into its final results. each of the expansions result in a form. however, calculating one of the last forms requires that the former forms are evaluated already (the expansion calls a method which is defined earlier in the macro). any ideas on how to get this to work nicely? 22:31:38 so i expand to something like `(progn ,(expand-one) ,(expand-which-requires-one)) 22:32:08 what dontcha like bout it? 22:32:39 stassats: that was for dim, right? 22:32:44 no 22:33:33 ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has joined #lisp 22:33:39 calling the function (expand-which-requires-one) demands that the result of (expand-one) has been evaluated already. 22:33:44 -!- zolk3ri [~Zol1ka@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:47 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:59 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-031-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:34:16 so, what's the problem? 22:34:28 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:35:09 the problem is that expand-one and expand-which-requires one are both called, and the result of that is compiled after. which is not what i want. 22:35:51 I don't remember if load-time-value might or might not help here 22:35:52 *madnificent* could use eval and some eval-when forms to get expand-one happy. 22:37:02 what are you really doing? 22:37:50 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:38:33 you can use two macros, one with eval-when 22:38:59 that is about as simple as i get it. i have built a more-or-less extensible abstraction for defining the domain-specific objects of an app. it automatically defines the data storage, builds some views, a javascript representation etc etc. 22:40:33 do you that you can create classes, methods, generic functions, etc. without using macros? 22:40:41 stassats: i could. but there are currently 6 expansions in there already, and i expect that to become more. 22:40:49 stassats: yes, i know that 22:41:32 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-66-161.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:59 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:44:31 -!- gigamonkey [~textual@64.124.192.210] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:45:08 madnificent: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134536 22:46:20 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:46:57 stassats: hmm, multiple levels of that might do the trick 22:47:16 doesn't feel clean though. but then again, i'm doing something dirty 22:49:21 it's as clean as the problem you're inventing 22:50:00 a macrolet would make it a tad better. add some abstraction on that and i guess i should be good to go. 22:50:30 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 22:50:49 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:e178:aa3e:7eb3:e4c] has joined #lisp 22:51:08 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:18 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:27 stassats: it's a nice 'hack' though. thanks 22:51:43 cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has joined #lisp 22:51:49 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:52:31 it's not really a hack, it's "you can use two macros, one with eval-when", but hey, why not write a macro which does that for you! 22:52:55 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:01 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:53:12 stassats: and i'm doing that! and yeah, the quotes were intentional. the option hadn't occured to me for some reason. 22:53:53 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.169.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:54:49 What'd be the simplest equivalent of unix tr(1) in ANSI CL? 22:54:55 substitute 22:55:13 I'm only interested in the replace-chars from set1 to set2 functionality. 22:55:17 antoszka: what's the simpliest equivalent of unix man(1) in ANSI CL? 22:55:21 clhs substitute 22:55:21 antoszka: what's the simpliest equivalent of unix apropos(1) in ANSI CL? 22:55:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sbs_s.htm 22:55:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:55:26 pjb: clhs ;) 22:55:33 Good. 22:55:40 clhs apropos 22:55:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apropo.htm 22:55:45 bad! 22:56:15 -!- TDT [~user@5317-nat00.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:40 Inside a loop is it possible to alter the value set by the "with" clause? I know I can use "for foo = 4 then (+ foo 1)" instead, but the variable should only be changed conditionally (I'm using the "when" clause for this). 22:56:49 cafaro: yes. 22:56:56 besides, substitute is not really it 22:57:12 cafaro: that said, if you have to ask those question, perhaps it would be better to use lisp instead of loop. 22:57:53 there's SUBLIS, but it's only for lists 22:57:55 cafaro: (let ((foo 4)) (do ((i 1 (1+ i))) ((>= i 10)) (setf foo (1+ foo))) foo) 22:57:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:58:45 "to use lisp"? 22:58:51 Yes, loop is not lisp. 22:59:11 *stassats* rolls his eyes 22:59:13 pjb: the difference being, that if I'm looking right I can only define a one-element substition in SUBSTITUTE. 22:59:26 I'm using loop a lot, but indeed, I'm starting to think that it would be better to use more lispy operators instead. 22:59:27 antoszka: that's correct 22:59:36 Yes. 22:59:47 which is not what tr does, that's why I asked 22:59:49 -!- hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:04 I understand, I need to build a map 23:00:22 But either you don't have a lot and then you can (substitute n1 o1 (substitute n2 o2 seq)), or you have a lot and then you should (map 'vector (curry aref translation-table) seq) 23:00:23 do you need it to only work on lists? 23:00:28 pjb: ok; thanks 23:00:28 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:44 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 23:01:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:08 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:31 pjb: yeah, thx 23:02:03 cafaro: don't listen to pjb about not using loop 23:02:11 pjb: just on string, actually, but I'm coercing them to lists of characters, so I can fiddle with them later on, at the list stage 23:02:13 he's been bitten by a loopless-bug 23:02:30 clhs sublis 23:02:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sublis.htm 23:02:49 antoszka: take a look at sublis 23:02:54 stassats: ah well, I was just following this lisp book here: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 23:02:54 let's see 23:02:58 *stassats* is a bit annoyed for having to say things twice 23:03:16 cafaro: it's good 23:03:36 -!- cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:47 ok :) 23:04:50 -!- pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 23:05:26 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:39 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:20 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-64-56.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:48 cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has joined #lisp 23:13:21 przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:15:27 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p54BF9647.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:18:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.238.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:18:42 ikki [~ikki@187.208.238.176] has joined #lisp 23:21:04 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:58 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:51 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-105-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 23:25:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:26:04 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:27:38 goddamn, lispworks personal edition is a tar-bomb 23:28:31 expands to exabytes ;)? 23:28:43 no, into the current directory 23:28:59 well, at least not into too much files 23:29:03 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:59 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 23:32:43 hi 23:33:55 francogrex [~user@109.134.229.110] has joined #lisp 23:34:08 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:08 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:34:11 MrTroll [uid2371@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcyfrwgajszasttf] has joined #lisp 23:34:12 I noticed a new LW personal was released. is it possible to include the commercial news feeds in planet lisp? 23:34:16 weak 23:34:21 wtf is lisp 23:34:45 the best explanation I found for sbcl's VOPs http://lisper.ru/articles/sbcl-add-vop 23:34:45 *MrTroll* is getting impatient... please respond asap! 23:34:57 wow, it's a meta-troll 23:35:06 -!- mjs2600 [~user@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:35:24 you guys like parentheses ? 23:35:31 MrTroll: go away already 23:35:38 francogrex: have you made progress with the vop stuff? 23:36:00 stassats! I am not speaking with you 23:36:11 how about you go home! 23:36:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:36:17 *MrTroll* ignores stassats 23:36:34 where are the ops when you need them? 23:37:02 well put. 23:38:00 francogrex: even if it's in russian? 23:38:18 Question: What is the best chan to troll around here? 23:38:48 -!- MrTroll [uid2371@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qcyfrwgajszasttf] has left #lisp 23:42:18 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:45:12 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-63-237.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:46:08 prxq: yes I undezrstand better, it's very interesting. 23:46:23 stassats: google translate 23:46:32 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:34 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:07 CormanLisp allows embedding asm directly into lisp code 23:48:16 but I think 0.0001% of lisper actually use Corman, so that makes it like 10e-100 of the population (a bit of a 1 person) 23:49:32 someone's left hand, quite literally 23:49:45 even less use inline asm, i reckon 23:51:44 How do I check if a bit is *not* set in a bit array? My attempt: (not (bit #*0000 1)), however bit yields a 0 or 1, and negating this using not always evaluates to nil, since the value is not nil or t. 23:52:11 cafaro: zerop? 23:52:12 (plusp (bit #*0000 1)) 23:53:01 nice, thanks both 23:53:44 or you can use integers instead of bit-vectors 23:53:49 and logbitp 23:54:20 okay 23:55:45 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]