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-!- tfb [~tfb@82.152.102.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:55:04 k0001 [~k0001@host12.200-117-35.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:55:36 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:56:33 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:00 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:14 tmanny [~tmanny@37.244.145.14] has joined #lisp 02:58:32 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host146.181-1-165.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:59:56 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:00 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:28 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:07:53 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:11:47 eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:47 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-24-13-247-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:11:47 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 03:15:05 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host12.200-117-35.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:16:29 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:11 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-202-181-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:33 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:34 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 03:27:25 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 03:28:58 So I've been looking (unsuccessfully so far) for a way to throw money at SBCL.. That Indiegogo thing is closed and I can't find any links anywhere for that sorta thing. Does anyone know if it's possible currently? 03:30:31 i think nikodemus takes donations .. otoh, you could actually _hire_ him or one of the sbcl devs who does consulting to do something 03:31:46 but that is probably going to be a couple K minimum, so it depends on how much you're looking at throwing 03:32:57 Ask in #sbcl if you haven't already? 03:33:04 I'd rather it not be a work order >;] 03:33:19 Or, even better, ask on one of the mailing lists? 03:33:20 nyef: I had.. no idea that channel existed I feel so ashamed 03:34:07 i always forget since #lisp has fairly high sbcl content heh 03:34:07 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:34:19 and I don't know how to use a mailing list or really what one is, to be honest haha.. 03:34:35 it's email 03:36:39 sykopomp: Oh okay. I guess I'm used to things like forums so when I heard 'mailing list' I thought it was a similarly structured thing, with topics etc. 03:38:50 oGMo: The SBCL devs moved out, since the signal-to-noise ratio in #lisp got so bad, what with all of the non-SBCL-dev people joining the channel... 03:40:18 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:40:38 ah 03:40:59 (Well, I say "moved out", but most of them are probably in both channels.) 03:47:27 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:48:31 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:52:33 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-91-189.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:53 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:30 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.81.16] has left #lisp 03:56:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-61.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01:55 -!- jeti [~user@p548EAA5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:02:38 -!- benny [~user@i577A732D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:03:50 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 04:09:36 -!- spiderweb is now known as dystopik 04:10:14 -!- dystopik is now known as spiderweb 04:13:18 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:03 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@14.38.151.41] has joined #lisp 04:18:05 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-91-189.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:19:44 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:23:21 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:10 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-91-189.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:47 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 04:43:44 -!- mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:27 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 04:52:20 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:00:47 -!- deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:08:41 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:14:57 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:12 benny [~user@i577A8090.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:21:11 brguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.95] has joined #lisp 05:21:31 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 05:22:29 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:24:12 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:25:39 brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.252] has joined #lisp 05:27:20 -!- brguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.95] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:41 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:29:48 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.70] has joined #lisp 05:33:33 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 05:33:38 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 05:37:55 brguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.134] has joined #lisp 05:39:43 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@14.38.151.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:40:27 -!- brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:40:31 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.170.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:43:16 brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.134] has joined #lisp 05:46:23 -!- brguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:47:01 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:27 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:47:44 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@14.38.151.41] has joined #lisp 05:52:37 -!- brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.144.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:55:19 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:55:26 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:55:58 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@14.38.151.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:57:09 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.81.16] has joined #lisp 05:57:25 is there a way to tell pprint _which_ things should be kept in a hash for (*print-circle* T)? I want to have most atoms printed everytime, and most lists shared when possible. 05:59:20 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.232.24.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:59:23 I can think of a hack that might work for you, but it'd require some digging to get it to work. 05:59:55 Basically, rebind the pprint-dispatch whatever it is, and replace the underlying logic. 06:01:29 And, on that note, I'm gone. 06:01:33 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-182-161.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 06:03:17 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 06:15:01 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:30 zajn [~zainamro@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:28 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has left #lisp 06:22:24 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:22:50 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:23:29 -!- zajn [~zainamro@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has 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sdemarre [~serge@198.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 09:13:57 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:14:46 hello, I need to fork an sbcl process. what can I use ? 09:18:41 I've seen that sbcl has sb-posix:fork should I stay with that or should I use something more 'portable' ? 09:18:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:19:43 -!- setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:20:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Client Quit] 09:20:41 and I also have an error when I call (sb-posix:fork) -> error in process filter: Unexpexted reply: 18 (:ok nil) 09:22:56 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@host86-159-61-165.range86-159.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:23:05 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 09:23:07 -!- hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:15 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:23 hagish [~hagish@p578E2B58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:25 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:23:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-124-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:23:57 -!- hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:24 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:24:30 -!- hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:51 hydan [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:25:28 b 09:25:42 *hydan* curses erc 09:26:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7578b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:31 kiuma: when forking, you need to make sure that you deal with file descriptors correctly 09:27:52 kiuma: what you see above is probably the child talking to slime unexpectedly. 09:28:02 kiuma: Are you sure you want to fork, and not just start a new thread? There a few portable thread libraries out there. 09:28:09 correct, it's slime 09:28:29 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-84-102.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:29:13 Cymew, yes because I'm testing a cffi binding to a pipe wrapper library 09:29:30 I see. 09:29:55 and because I think I should go with processes when I'll rewrite my web app server 09:30:02 Then I have not heard of any portable way to do it, but would like to know! 09:30:03 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-253-8-204.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 09:30:57 kiuma: you should go with processes because....? 09:32:07 H4ns, because the server will be event based, ecore based, and I don't want to share memory 09:32:26 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:32:35 It could also be that session handling will be delegated to another process 09:32:52 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-027-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:15 and for 'standard' workload I expect to need only one process 09:33:49 bitonic [~user@ppp-157-126.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 09:35:45 kiuma: look at sb-ext:run-program 09:36:59 H4ns, I'll look a it ... and from the name if I correctly gueess I think it's better a run-program 09:37:11 kiuma: look at the source to see how fork is used in sbcl 09:37:38 do you mean sbcl source ? 09:37:44 kiuma: of course. 09:38:16 ok 09:39:23 actually, it seems that sbcl uses a spawn function implemented in c and does not call fork directly, but i may be wrong 09:41:06 it seems like ccl calls fork directly from lisp, so maybe that is more enlightening 09:42:11 I didn't find any fork definitions with find . -name *.lisp -exec grep -Hn fork {} \; 09:42:22 my recommendation would be to avoid fork, though. just use some helper threads if you actually need it. 09:42:28 kiuma: use M-. 09:43:32 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.171.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:44:01 H4ns, I think I'll follow your suggestion, it's to easy to find problems like the one I've found with slime 09:45:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:45:05 for helper therads there is no problem, I've aready planned to intgrate the core-thread part for helpers 09:46:17 Do they even have fork in Windows/MacOS and suchlike? I know very little of the world outside nix. 09:46:41 Cymew: osx is unix, mostly. windows does not have fork. 09:47:52 it has with mingw 09:48:00 windows 09:48:30 it is possible to somewhat emulate fork on windows, but it is cumbersome 09:48:58 and even on unix-like systems with threads, fork is not what you want to use often. basically, it is legacy. 09:50:02 Just what I thought, yes. 09:50:17 -!- theos is now known as Guest59769 09:51:00 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:51:21 you convinced me :) 09:51:48 -!- Guest59769 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:44 I'll simply go with IPC 09:55:23 yeah, emulating fork on windows is super slow because it doesn't have copy-on-write 09:55:39 which is why cygwin shells are really slow and stuff 09:55:44 ... and I still need to hack swank to make it work while ecore_main_loop is running 09:56:15 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.171.95] has joined #lisp 09:57:53 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:35 PUSH is to CONS as _______ is to APPEND 10:01:17 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:02 nconcf ;) 10:03:03 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.189] has joined #lisp 10:04:41 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:18 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 10:08:39 IIRC windows has fork, but forcibly with exec 10:11:05 how is it possible to get the file descriptor in CL ? 10:17:12 (sb-sys:fd-stream-fd *fvar*) in sbcl after open I think. Is there any portability layer ? 10:17:27 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 10:17:59 setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.189] has joined #lisp 10:18:48 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:15 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has quit [Quit: That's it, I quit!] 10:19:32 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.189] has joined #lisp 10:20:27 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:23:21 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25:30 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:26:32 dim: windows does not have fork 10:31:04 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 10:31:05 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.172.245.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:21 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.172.245.83] has joined #lisp 10:31:37 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:32:48 you can simulate it with CreateProcess() 10:34:21 well, lisp seems good enough at threading I'm not sure about any appeal to go forking instead 10:34:49 I think the issue is that without copy-on-write it's incredibly slow to do fork 10:36:11 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:36:25 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:36:31 myx [~myx@pppoe-202-181-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:36:55 stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has joined #lisp 10:40:27 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:54 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 10:42:05 sklr [~clarkema@31-222-178-169.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:45:03 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:47:52 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:50:31 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:51:11 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:54:01 Harag [~Thunderbi@dsl-243-250-187.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:54:42 make: cc: Command not found 10:54:42 make: *** [determine-endianness] Error 127 10:55:07 any body else getting this trying to compile sbcl? 10:55:39 <|3b|> sounds like it can't find a c compiler 10:55:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:56:46 I was expecting to see gcc not cc 10:57:15 your expectations were wrong 10:57:19 apt-get install build-essentials, or even better, apt-get build-dep sbcl 10:58:14 lol ok fair enough H4ns 10:58:21 dim did that 10:58:33 maybe the ubuntu is just to old 10:58:57 thanx will scratch some more 11:00:29 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 11:01:28 -!- tetzco1 [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has left #lisp 11:02:57 -!- grn [grn@gateway/shell/mydevil.net/x-rnmspobjpzijyare] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:03:08 <|3b|> /usr/bin/cc is a symlink to /etc/alternatives/cc which symlinks to a gcc on my ubuntu 12.04 system 11:07:10 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:54 abeaumont [~abeaumont@112.Red-83-61-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:12:27 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:17:02 deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@14.38.151.41] has joined #lisp 11:19:24 Harag: after installing gcc compiler try: whatis gcc & ls -al $(whereis cc) (: 11:21:16 setting up a new sever the server I have is mavrick and I am having issues updating it 11:21:29 s/&/&&/ 11:22:04 and the server is a vm aswell and dist-upgrades on those don't always go well 11:22:33 Joreji_ [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:25:26 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.172.245.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:24 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:31:33 hi, i have a newb CL question: why does (cons 'b 'c) eval to (B . C) but (cons 'b (cons 'c nil)) eval to (B C)? 11:32:20 i understand the difference between (B . C) and (B C) if i were using box notation 11:32:31 <|3b|> (b c) is the same as (b . (c . nil)) 11:32:44 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:49 <|3b|> (c) is (c . nil) 11:33:54 ah so 'c is not equal to ('c nil) 11:34:23 <|3b|> 'c reads as (quote c) which evaluates to the symbol c 11:34:45 <|3b|> ('c nil) reads as ((quote c) nil) which would be an error to evaluate 11:35:06 you could start with something self-evaluating, (cons 1 2) and (cons 1 (cons 2 nil)) 11:35:36 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-202-181-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:13 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:16 ah, and so i'm clear on some of the terminology - 'c would be an atom whereas (cons 'c nil) would not be? 11:37:31 <|3b|> 'c would /evaluate/ to an atom 11:37:49 <|3b|> specifically the symbol named "C" 11:37:55 <|3b|> that symbol is an atom 11:37:57 is there a cl system out there, or maybe just example code where each function defined gets a collection of tags/characteristic that functions can use to form associations between each other, a sort of database of function ? 11:38:24 i was thinking trying it as an idea and i was wondering if someone has done this much better than i would dod it 11:38:28 ok that makes sense, thank you! 11:39:15 <|3b|> if it isn't evaluated, 'c is the list (QUOTE C) containing the symbols named "QUOTE" and "C" 11:40:08 -!- deadlytoah [~Thunderbi@14.38.151.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:35 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.171.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:40:50 kilon: lispworks dspec perhaps. your description is kind of vague. 11:42:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:49 mal_: its rather vague because i am still thinking how that concept can be of any practical use. I was thinking something like what stackoverflow has done for questions , in terms of tags. Thanks for the suggestion , googling it. 11:47:59 myx [~myx@pppoe-221-239-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 11:49:29 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-142-239.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:50:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-226-82.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:50:43 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-33-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:25 mal_: from the looks of it , http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/LW/html/lw-60.htm#41682, it looks related and very interesting 11:52:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:52:35 thanks 11:53:14 k0001 [~k0001@host45.190-138-105.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 11:54:36 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:55:02 well, a difference is that IIRC data is attached to symbols, not really to functions 11:55:53 so its finer grained 11:56:59 isn't there a plist you can attach to any symbol in CL? 11:57:23 yep 11:57:48 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:05 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.148.65] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:59:27 sound like what i need 12:00:05 see get, getf, get-properties and suchlike 12:02:02 (info "(ansicl) get") seems to be what you want 12:03:05 deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:15 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:00 yeah you can use (setf (get 'my-function 'my-property-name) 'some-value) 12:05:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:06:50 then (describe 'my-function) reports about it (in CCL at least) and (get 'my-function 'my-property-name) gets back 'some-value 12:07:58 sometimes I really do wonder why elisp isn't a little more like cl, because it's darn near already. and of course having (require 'cl) frowned upon is just stupid too 12:10:15 Vicfred [~Futaba@189.232.24.149] has joined #lisp 12:12:04 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.171.95] has joined #lisp 12:12:10 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 12:13:00 dim: you mean get is the answer to what i want ? 12:13:17 jarmond [~user@62-175-223.netrun.cytanet.com.cy] has joined #lisp 12:13:24 to me it looks like a possible answer yes 12:15:09 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 12:16:13 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-027-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:16:42 thank you dim , yes actually i was looking already to plist and google send me to the elip documentation. I love elisp too, i find the whole attitude against it, overly negative. I agree a plist would be the most approriate for a tag like system for functions 12:17:01 no idea how to attack a plist to a function yet though 12:17:05 *attach 12:17:44 oh there was 2 topics here, sorry. A. use get and (setf get) to manage the symbol's plist in CL, that's already provided for you and B. rants about elisp 12:18:12 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:22 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:24 (defun my-function () nil) (setf (get 'my-function 'prop) 'val) (describe 'my-function) (get 'my-function 'prop) 12:18:54 it just works. it's in the standard. 12:19:22 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has joined #lisp 12:19:36 i see, then its a matter of me sitting down and learing it, thank you dim 12:19:42 *learning 12:28:54 -!- deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:30:14 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:31:00 add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-177-248.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:31:22 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 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[Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:51:49 deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:15 Ah, c.l.l. Brad Lucier asks a numerical computation question, all but one replies with trivialities. 13:53:56 petrosil [~petrosil@norma.uberspace.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:11 -!- nawk [~nawk@99.226.117.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:46 -!- petrosil is now known as basho___ 13:57:46 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:03 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:03 nilsi_ [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:03:00 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:26 pkhuong: why do you even bother reading it? :-) 14:14:13 There's interesting stuff sometimes. Like Lucier's question. 14:15:05 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:16:08 pkhuong, don't you have a PhD. in numerics? Expecting anyone to do better is not realistic. 14:16:12 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@dsl-243-250-187.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 14:17:14 Also, I wouldn't expect Lisp to be the language with the smartest algorithms implemented, because there is almost no commercial interest in Lisp. Lisp is just a small pond. 14:17:15 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:04 Then if you reduce that by the tiny amount of people who are subscribed to c.l..l. (most people don't use usenet these days) then it's like a droplet of the ocean. 14:18:31 c.l.l. isn't exactly a place I would look for quality 14:18:32 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:19:22 p_l: where would you look? lisp forum? 14:19:23 eh? I'm working on a PhD in discrete optimisation; numerics is just a necessary evil. Lucier is a prof at Purdue's math dept. 14:19:59 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:33 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:39 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.202.118] has joined #lisp 14:20:44 On LinkedIn, of course! :P 14:21:12 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:21:45 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:22:16 p_l: afaik is the only place where you can find reasonable answers about CL (if you don't count IRC where you need to be online). 14:23:20 invariant: try stackoverflow for quality :-) 14:23:44 pkhuong: Lucifer is a prof a Purdue?? 14:23:52 That's a joke, right? 14:24:06 pjb-v: according to Linus, yes. 14:24:17 daimrod: Whenever it's something that's actually *lisp* specific, I usually find it on Planet Lisp.. 14:24:22 On SO they don't even know the difference between a good and a wrong answer. 14:24:34 :-) 14:24:51 They have to vote on them to guess which one is good :-) 14:25:47 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 14:26:02 kilon: you can't attach a p-list to a function in standard CL, but you can map a function to a p-list, thru an a-list, a p-list, a hash-table or otherwise. 14:26:03 nielsb [~niels@p4FD6FBFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:54 kilon: (setf (gethash (lambda (x) (* x x)) *plists*) '(what-it-returns "The square of the numerical argument." is-simple-function t)) 14:27:12 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 14:28:26 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6B0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:42 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:29:18 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:02 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:20 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 14:34:47 hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:12 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:36:16 (non-tech) MCC stands for Mc Carthy? (http://wiki.alu.org/ZetaLisp) 14:36:51 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 14:37:14 Perhaps not. I'd expect JMC for him. 14:37:14 pjb-v: thank you , i just want to attach a dictionary to a functions and access it outside the function, plist looks fine for the task, i want to use this plist to describe the purpose of the function 14:37:32 kilon: be careful in what you're saying/asking for. 14:37:49 kilon: a function is not a symbol. A function can be _named_ by zero, one or more symbols. 14:38:24 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:25 pjb-v: i see. 14:38:26 (defun g () 'hi) (setf (get 'g 'what-it-returns) "The symbol HI") (setf (symbol-function 'f) (symbol-function 'g)) (get 'f 'what-it-returns) --> NIL 14:39:02 so perhaps you want to put (function g) in a hash-table with the associated attribute, if you really want to attach it to the function, and not to the name. 14:39:44 kilon: on the other hand, (lambda (x) (* x x)) and (lambda (x) (* x x)) and (lambda (x) (expt x 2)) can be two or three(!) lisp functions, while being the same mathematically. 14:40:10 pjb-v: i think now i understand what you saying . yes i think the second approach will be safer, is it possible in common lisp to have a function use a name used by something else ? 14:40:51 oh i see 14:40:57 and even equalp hash-tables won't unify them :-( 14:41:02 hmm then i need to be careful 14:41:47 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.204.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:42:34 thank you for the warning 14:43:42 pjb-v: is it really customary to (setf (symbol-function ... and change things around? and do you really want to move the extra symbol's plist in that case? 14:44:21 dim: it may happen, and there may be a lot of anonymous functions too. 14:44:37 fair enough 14:44:40 k0001_ [~k0001@host173.200-117-39.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:44:49 THe point is that symbol-plist contains properties of the symbol, not of the function bound to the symbol. 14:44:59 I mean I appreciate that you give that warning, I wouldn't be too concerned if I had what I understand of the use case here 14:45:06 Otherwise, there would be a function-plist. 14:45:09 dim: and also, DEFUN will probably call (SETF SYMBOL-FUNCTION) 14:45:36 and set a few properties on the function name plist, if it's a symbol. 14:45:40 jdz: which is the point, right? defun won't change your own symbol's plist management... 14:46:17 (defun (setf s) (nv ) ) could set different properties to the plist of S. 14:46:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:36 -!- Dragonling [~Drak0n41K@94.137.59.65] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 14:46:41 dim: this is another question. Use your own symbols on the plists, not keywords, not symbols from CL or any other implementation package. 14:46:52 I still have to get to use and understand (defun (setf )) 14:47:06 pjb-v: it was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microelectronics_and_Computer_Technology_Corporation, thanks 14:47:17 Oh right! 14:47:47 the reason why i asked about tags attached to functions is mainly for function browseing 14:48:12 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host117.190-138-110.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:49:01 kilon: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/132174#1 14:50:25 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.204.249] has joined #lisp 14:52:04 pjb-v: please keep the link, i will ask for it in a hour when i get hom 14:52:06 And do-symbols only returns interned symbols. 14:52:08 *home 14:52:14 see you then 14:52:14 minion: logs 14:52:15 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 14:52:22 oh thanks 14:52:27 great 14:52:36 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:24 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:57:09 ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 14:58:03 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 14:59:31 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 15:00:12 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:31 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.27] has joined #lisp 15:03:14 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-181-86.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:22 why does (test-server:start-server) run in the background in the repl? how do I cancel that 'process'? https://gist.github.com/4435190 15:06:31 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-91-189.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:08:03 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:07 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-134-140.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:20 cornihilio: http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/#stop takes an acceptor 15:12:24 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-76-254-35-109.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Nodding off now.] 15:13:27 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:45 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:53 -!- nielsb [~niels@p4FD6FBFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:18:55 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:02 pkhuong: sure... indeed Newton's method and Hensel's lemma are related :) 15:22:25 pnpuff: eh? 15:23:19 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.204.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:23:22 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:40 are similar! 15:25:58 ENOCONTEXT, sorry. 15:26:48 and you surely know about p-adic continued fraction ... lucier question - answer trivial :) - 15:27:28 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 15:28:38 -!- harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:35 pnpuff: You gave an interesting answer to the wrong question. Brad is trying to understand what matters in rational arithmetic performance, not whether rational arithmetic performance matters. 15:32:26 I gave a trivial answer bacause the question was bad posed - too generic - 15:33:36 kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:22 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 15:35:29 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.204.249] has joined #lisp 15:39:14 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:40:24 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 15:40:39 tetzco1 [~tetzco@2001:a60:1218:1001:226:bbff:fe03:b2e9] has joined #lisp 15:41:12 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:43:40 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 15:44:29 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:39 minion: logs 15:44:39 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 15:44:39 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44:56 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.204.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:24 anyway phuong : there are many methods (algorithms) to compute, in this case, the continued fractions and this affects speed - that was mentioned in lucier's question - he is a prof so maybe he know that. 15:48:22 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.250] has joined #lisp 15:52:50 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-182-161.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:06 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:56:24 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:17 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:11 (let ((x )) #'(lambda () (print x) (sleep 1000))); will X not be garbage-collected for the whole duration of the closure? 16:01:49 Until the closure is GC'ed, the object bound to X won't be GC'ed. 16:02:07 tcr: perhaps, perhaps not. 16:02:10 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 16:02:13 If you type that at the REPL, will be kept until you type two more other expressions unrelated. 16:02:32 pkhuons: SBCL? 16:02:39 pkhuong excuse me :-) 16:02:42 It doesn't depend on the execution of the closure, but the fact that the closure is not GC'ed! 16:03:35 If you call the function, and lose all references to it, and the function tells the GC that X is not needed before the sleep, then the object could be GC'ed during the sleep. But not if you kept a reference to the closure. 16:05:21 Why not? 16:05:28 tcr: you can set x to nil after printing 16:05:40 -!- kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:54 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 16:06:13 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:24 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:06:24 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:06:35 tcr: right then. I've seen some language implementations (JVMs?) that add code to null such refs out. 16:10:36 Perhaps SBCL could do that under "low debug" or "not high debug" conditions? 16:13:10 Then again, proving that the closure itself isn't going to be called again might be tricky. 16:13:52 Alternately, does the closure function even keep hold of the closure, or does it just load the values and value cells from it and discard the reference? 16:13:58 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:14:14 It's been a little while since I've looked at that part of SBCL in any depth. (-: 16:15:34 tcr: first, at the REPL, *, ** and *** keep references to the last three results (and /, //, and /// to the multiple results), therefore the closure cannot be GC'ed, since you could do (funcall *) wait for the sleep, and (funcall **) and then (funcall ***). 16:16:09 nyef: pretty sure it's left in RAX. 16:16:14 And out of the REPL, it's assumed you keep the closure bound to some variable, so while it is, it cannot be GC'ed either. 16:17:08 nyef: although, it's marked as dead afterward, so with the right regalloc, it's all right. 16:19:38 so I think the explicit nulling out was for the stack (doesn't make sense for closures/objects without a lot of analysis)... that'd definitely be a Good Thing on SBCL. 16:20:41 phserr [~phserr@189-71-99-4.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:20:56 -!- phserr [~phserr@189-71-99-4.user.veloxzone.com.br] has left #lisp 16:21:04 You mean the implicit nulling out. An explicite one would be explicite. (loop with c = (let ((x )) #'(lambda () (print x) (sleep 1000))) repeat 100 do (funcall c)) 16:21:16 What about? (let ((x )) (form1 x) forms-not-referencing-X); my question is there anything in SBCL that would keep X reachable after the execution of FORM1? 16:21:36 vs. (loop with c = (let ((x )) #'(lambda () (print x) (setf x nil) (sleep 1000))) repeat 100 do (funcall c)) ; not the same semantics. 16:21:59 tcr: the debugger? 16:22:04 ie. debug level. 16:22:05 Q regarding set-pprint-dispatch et al: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134366 16:22:25 With only a single element in the hash table, I get the value printed. 16:22:28 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:22:41 As soon as there are two elements, they don't. Any idea? 16:22:48 tcr: it depends on stack/register allocation. X is dead, but there may be a stray reference. (stack conservativeness and all that) 16:22:53 SBCL, 1.1.1.0 debian amd64 16:23:03 -!- hagish [~hagish@p578E2B58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:18 canaima172424 [~canaima@186.92.199.16] has joined #lisp 16:24:42 hola 16:28:43 agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:36 -!- pnpuff [~L@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:33:28 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:34 flip214: "i$"? Shades of microsoft basic! 16:34:48 nyef: ah yes, right. I misremembered, I wanted to use $i. that was C64 BASIC. 16:35:01 glad you like it! 16:35:59 enymo [~user@nat.sierrabravo.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:18 anybody from MN, near Minneapolis? 16:37:36 Define "near"? 16:37:50 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 flip214: As far as your problem with the pprinter, the issue is that you're using princ-to-string as the sort key, which registers the object with the circularity detector, and that SORT on a single item doesn't need to call the key function. 16:38:00 In terms of lisp programmer density, Boston is near Minneapolis 16:38:12 hey I am trying to play around with a hunchentoot server but I can't get this to work: https://gist.github.com/4435917 any suggestions? 16:38:31 I get "resource /yo not found" 16:39:04 cornihilio: I rather suspect that you're using an older tutorial / example with a newer hunchentoot. 16:39:16 I'm going by http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 16:39:25 could that be out of date? 16:39:36 pjb-v: well, i would really like to work with Lisp so i was wondering if 1) there are Lisp jobs in MN, and 2) what are the qualifications 16:39:39 I'm not sure, but I think there's a special listener class that you need to use in order for easy handlers to work now. 16:39:55 -!- canaima172424 [~canaima@186.92.199.16] has left #lisp 16:40:26 nyef: um, would you suggest any tutorial in particular? 16:40:44 *nyef* is not a hunchentoot expert, still uses a quicklisp dist from September 2011, and papered over the whole hunchentoot handler thing with his own macro layer. 16:41:04 lol 16:41:09 k0001 [~k0001@host211.190-229-212.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:41:20 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:09 flip214: Why are you sorting the hash-table keys by their printed representation? 16:42:46 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:43:01 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:25 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:02 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.245.104] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 16:44:23 nyef: because symbols have no ordering on their own? 16:44:26 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host173.200-117-39.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:47 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-164-126-133-40.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:44:54 nyef: princ-to-string uses the _same_ hash table as the other print functions, although it uses a different stream? 16:44:58 But your hash keys are all strings, and they princ as "". 16:45:00 ain't that a bug? 16:45:09 Nope. 16:45:20 nyef: in this faked example, yes. my real code uses keywords, symbols, strings, numbers, etc. 16:45:40 Oh, maybe it is. 16:45:42 and I want/need a defined ordering, to ease comparing 16:46:07 I guess it's a bug ... why should printing to a memory stream change the hash table for a completely different stream? 16:46:31 Hrm. Yeah, that's not right. 16:46:36 My analysis could be wrong. 16:47:04 waahahahaha 16:47:36 At the same time, using princ-to-string as a sort key is also wrong, especially since your representation for a string varies by the address that it's stored at, meaning that a GC will screw things up. 16:48:43 I'd write-to-string with :readably t... and also use a schwartzian transform instead of :key. 16:48:54 nyef: yes, of course. the real code shows the string value, too. the address is used to see whether duplicate data is shared as it should be. 16:49:23 pkhuong: if it was used more often, yes. this is just debug output, and I wondered. 16:49:52 coming from perl I'm well aware of that ... there's a new perl6 way to do it, after all. 16:54:59 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 16:55:55 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.240.147] has joined #lisp 16:56:20 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 16:58:05 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:22 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:53 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:00:56 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:02:30 paul0 [~paulo@177.42.34.58] has joined #lisp 17:02:30 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7578b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:03:48 -!- deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:06:58 I've got a lot of data to print in a hunchentoot handler. 17:07:24 Using (with-html-output (*standard-output*) ...) I get "out of heap". I thought that this would just rebind *standard-output* and so stream directly to the client? 17:07:53 ah, got it. 17:08:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:08:58 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:09:49 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ] 17:10:47 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:11:09 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:59 Is there a (HUNCHENTOOT:SEND-HEADERS) that returns a character stream? Or do I have to do the conversion myself (or via babel)? 17:14:34 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 17:16:18 ah, got a post. flexi-streams is the answer. 17:16:19 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:16:31 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 17:18:18 pdponze [~pierre@37.0.45.21] has joined #lisp 17:22:07 gigamonk_ [~textual@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 17:23:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24:10 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:24:42 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:26:18 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:53 Okay, I'm gone again. 17:28:00 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-182-161.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Travelling] 17:28:08 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.169.226] has 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[user@nat/google/x-zgclgvsornxjfadn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:21 k0001 [~k0001@host211.190-229-212.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:20:26 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:12 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:54 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:59 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:25:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:59 -!- Amoz [~Amoz@nl107-187-231.student.uu.se] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:29:39 brazilianguy [~idonteven@177.17.151.177] has joined #lisp 19:31:06 -!- brguy [~idonteven@177.17.151.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:33:09 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host211.190-229-212.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:24 is there a bot that runs lisp code in the channel? 19:41:30 merk_: probably never. 19:43:02 such bots tend to be noisy and distracting and everyone here has a repl open anyway 19:43:25 greenyouse [~greenyous@71-13-17-28.dhcp.dlth.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:44 not to mention the pain of maintaining such and restarting it everytime someone blows it up 19:47:39 -!- greenyouse [~greenyous@71-13-17-28.dhcp.dlth.mn.charter.com] has left #lisp 19:51:02 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:51:11 dlowe: being in few channels that have them I didnt usually find them distractive but engaging, often sparking ontopic converation. and its neat for demonstrating code that is part od the conversation 19:53:05 how would one sandbox CL code btw? 19:53:18 merk_: with a VM/jail. 19:53:18 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:42 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:55:57 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:25 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:32 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:48 merk_: this discussion comes up every few months and the end result is always that the majority of the channel regulars does not want such a bot. 19:57:41 well, if there was a bot, it could simply wait in #lispbot .... 19:57:56 there's already such a bot 19:58:14 not in #lisp, but it's about 19:59:48 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-206-24-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:01:45 merk_: there's an erc command which allows you to type /eval (form) RET and which replaces it with (form) => result which you can then edit and send. 20:01:54 merk_: it's almost as good as an eval bot. 20:02:10 (list (lisp-implementation-version) (lisp-implementation-version)) => ("Version 1.8-r15286M (Linuxx8664)" "Version 1.8-r15286M (Linuxx8664)") 20:02:44 pjb: hi 20:02:55 pjb: I need help writing a copy function! 20:03:03 And indeed, I've ignored rudybot for six months, because it was unbearable. 20:03:12 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-206-24-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 20:03:14 Posterdati: really! 20:03:24 pjb: yes! 20:03:55 pjb: are function passed by value to a function? 20:04:03 sorry 20:04:10 pjb: are parameters passed by value to a function? 20:04:16 (defun copy-object (dst src) (loop for slot in (get-slots-in dst) do (if (slot-boundp src slot) (setf (slot-value dst slot) (slot-value src slot)) (slot-makunbound dst slot))) dst) 20:04:31 The trick is in get-slots-in, you need to use the MOP for that. 20:04:49 Posterdati: yes, parameters are always passed by value to functions. 20:04:57 so 20:05:12 (defun antani(a b) (setf b 5)) 20:05:22 would not change b outside antani definition 20:06:36 nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:07:11 but if you do (defun antani (a b) (setf (cdr b) 5)) then (let ((a (list 1)) (b (list 2))) (antani a b) b) => (2 . 5) 20:08:51 pjb: my objects are composed by grid type members too 20:09:57 Posterdati: a function establishes new lexical bindings on its parameters. If the place given to setf is a symbol, then it only affects the bindings for that symbol. 20:10:06 for which I have to use grid:copy 20:11:56 Posterdati: (quickload :closer-mop) (defun get-slots-in (object) (mapcar 'c2mop:slot-definition-name (c2mop:compute-slots (class-of object)))) 20:12:45 Posterdati: have you read the references I gave you yesterday? 20:13:21 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:13:28 Posterdati: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/PS/EQUAL.html and http://cdr.eurolisp.org/document/8/cleqcmp.html 20:13:46 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@c83-253-22-138.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:20 The problem of object copying, is that some slots must be copied, some may be shared, for some other, it's even more complex (they may have to be partially copied, or to a certain depth, which is not necessarily a constant). 20:14:50 So it depends on the classes and of the source and destination objects. 20:15:12 We can define a generic copy-object as above, but it is meaningless for specific classes. 20:15:21 That's why it doesn't exist in the standard. 20:16:27 reb [user@nat/google/x-jpaevvpvfsvicpdu] has joined #lisp 20:17:38 sunwukong [~vukung@78.139.3.238] has joined #lisp 20:20:34 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 20:22:59 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:24:31 pjb: http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.fr/2013/01/real-list-comprehensions-in-lisp.html --- in case you missed it, another cool example of reader macros tu use as a tutorial --- I mean the use case, not the actual implementation. 20:25:00 Lisp univ! :-) 20:25:15 Ah, universe, I thought university. :-) 20:25:25 yeah I though the same at first :) 20:26:13 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@78.139.3.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:36 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 20:27:48 dim: with that, you can no longer have || stand for a symbol with an empty name 20:28:03 is that useful? 20:28:16 I mean is having a symbol with an empty name usefule? 20:28:18 dim: I only ever use it as :|| so probably not an issue 20:28:26 anyway, I don't much like the implementation 20:28:44 I think the list comprehension syntax is a good example of reader macro 20:28:55 you can practically just wrap loop in [] to make "list comprehensions" 20:29:00 -!- Matt_S_G [~Matt_S_G@84.235.91.62] has quit [Quit: Matt_S_G] 20:29:07 cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:22 dlowe: that's what I do; it has the advantage of being readable by non-lispers too 20:29:25 [for x from 0 upto 100 if (evenp x) collect x] 20:29:45 an example is { (+ x y) || x <- '(1 2 3) y <- '(5 6 7) || (oddp x) (> y 5) } gives 10 20:29:53 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:56 I don't much like using other braces, because it makes matching more annoying 20:30:03 but you know... they're there 20:30:07 matching? 20:30:20 dim: ([)] 20:30:22 blah code blah ... )))]}))[) 20:30:29 oh that's to avoid, yes 20:30:51 it's much easier to just slam )))))) at the end 20:30:56 If you only ever use () then it's easy to match it all up 20:31:10 though a "sufficiently smart editor" can do the right thing for you 20:31:23 actually that's a pretty good example to debunk lisp' parens being a problem: take any non trivial javascript example and paste its ending, usually ) } } ] ; } ; } ) }; 20:32:19 anyone knows how to install hyperspec in emacs ? 20:32:33 is there a way for paredit to select a complete s-exp when the point is on its opening paren? 20:32:39 I've been missing that when I last tried it 20:33:06 cabal does use %APPDATA% 20:33:30 wrong window 20:33:57 dim: C-M-space 20:34:35 wow, and that's not even in paredit 20:34:36 awesome 20:34:42 thanks a lot 20:35:13 and now paredit makes sense 20:35:32 bear3 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 20:37:00 Is there a CLOS implementation written completely in CLOS-free lisp? 20:37:07 in CFFI how do I wrap a C function that takes a callback? creating a special variable that holds last passed function seems like a hack 20:37:33 jasom: PCL maybe sorta not really, or Closette (in AMOP) 20:37:41 bear3: http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Callbacks.html 20:38:54 bear3: by using defcallback and passing state (i.e., the real lisp function) 20:39:03 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@12.218.85.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:39:13 although, given that callbacks usually have to compile to un-gced code, binding a *special* around the call makes a lot of sense, if possible. If the callback has an argument, you could also use that to map from integer to function. 20:39:18 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:21 how do you pass a state to it? right now I saved lisp function in a special variable, which defcallback calls 20:39:49 oh, a special var works too, if the API doesn't let you pass things otherwise 20:40:00 special is probably easier than other hacks anyway 20:40:13 let-binding that special is probably the simplest approach, if you know that the function will only be called during that foreign call. 20:41:59 out of curiosity, what would one do if C function saved the passed function, and then repeatedly called it later? 20:42:39 sdemarre [~serge@198.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 using a special would make the function non-reentrant 20:43:02 bear3: callbackful API usually pass an user-provided void * pointer to callbacks as well. 20:43:35 like qsort_r instead of qsort. 20:43:36 so pass lisp function as void * and then extract it in callback 20:44:13 it would be neat if you could just directly pass a lisp function 20:44:14 no, no, no. GC can move stuff arbitrarily. Use a weak hash table to map from integer/address to lisp object. 20:44:18 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:44:19 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:44:28 I see 20:44:30 bear3: you can do this with libffi - given a function pointer and some argument data it will return a function pointer you can call with no args 20:44:46 maybe you can call libffi from CFFI 20:45:20 atgreen: yes, but you have to manage object code lifetime yourself. 20:45:28 true 20:45:35 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:24 * use a strong hash table at first. weak tables may be useful if you create a ton of callbacks, but they're a bit harder to use. 20:47:34 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:08 mstevens_ [~mstevens@81.2.103.20] has joined #lisp 20:51:33 johnstorey [~johnstore@12.218.85.246] has joined #lisp 20:52:06 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[~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:15 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:05:36 merk_ [~tmanny@37.244.145.14] has joined #lisp 22:06:49 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:f08d:a1d6:fbb7:ad65] has joined #lisp 22:08:00 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 22:09:05 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@216.185.74.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:56 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:10:06 azkane [~ahm@187.143.103.219] has joined #lisp 22:10:32 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:37 -!- atgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-76.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:15:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:16:56 -!- _0bitcount [~ulises11@82.158.225.51.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:18:09 zajn_ [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:19 hi 22:20:29 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:32 how can I get the list of an object slots? 22:20:45 what do you think that means? 22:21:15 yes, I need the slots in a class type object 22:21:31 class-slots ? 22:22:08 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:22:08 -!- zajn_ is now known as zajn 22:30:14 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:49 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@12.218.85.246] has quit [Quit: joining all red shirts in their final fate] 22:33:59 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:22 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 22:37:53 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-221-239-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Quit: ] 22:41:23 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:42:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@198.184-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:43:52 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:31 http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/mop-classes.html#class-direct-slots could help 22:48:30 what about indirect ones, those which the object could have inherited ? 22:48:47 (mapcar #'closer-mop:slot-definition-name (closer-mop:class-direct-slots (class-of (make-instance 'foo)))) 22:49:00 he is asking afaik about an arbitrary object..... 22:49:37 (mapcar #'closer-mop:slot-definition-name (closer-mop:class-slots (class-of (make-instance 'foo)))) 22:49:38 is CLASS-SLOTS a method? ;) 22:49:51 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:52 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@pool-173-76-25-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:57 class-direct-slots is i think 22:49:57 # 22:50:23 wbooze: you where spot on woth class-slots, just had to say it's from closer-mop 22:51:12 what if the object approved of a dynamic nature as in changing it's class on the fly thereby acquiring or losing some of it's slots ? 22:51:37 from closer-mop? really? ;) 22:51:41 what about you trying and reporting about it? 22:51:56 lol 22:51:56 substitute [~substitut@174-21-39-108.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:57 because you know, I just discovered all of that by trying myself :) 22:51:57 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:14 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:36 http://www.alu.org/mop/dictionary.html#class-mo-readers <--- docs help 22:54:32 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:43 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 22:54:53 dim: I'm trying to write an object copy function 22:54:57 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:57:08 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.246.29.8] has joined #lisp 22:58:28 Posterdati: to copy what? or (let ((foo (make-instance 'foo))) (setf (bar foo) foo) (copy-object foo)) is supposed to return exactly what? (or: there is a reason such a thing does not exist generically ... so need more info on what you desire) 22:58:59 I need to copy a class object into another 22:59:45 why? 23:01:16 Posterdati: https://github.com/hroptatyr/thh/blob/master/src/copy-instance.lisp 23:01:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@2001:ba8:1f1:f1ef::3] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:01:57 I subistitute old object values with new new values 23:02:02 discarding the old ones 23:02:24 (eq (class-of (find-class 'standard-class)) (find-class 'standard-class)) <--- just for more circles, this one actually specified :) 23:02:56 ? 23:04:22 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01117c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:06:02 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:07 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-017.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:06:18 dim: it would be easy to accept a single #\| in the comprehension syntax: just accumulate the characters until you get a #\|, the read the buffer as a list, then continue and parse the buffer, etc, until #\} is found. 23:06:56 I trust you on that, I'm yet to try writing any reader macro 23:07:19 I will have to learn about disabling it first, to get back a working image if needs be :) 23:07:54 Posterdati: what's wrong with the copy-object definition I gave above? 23:08:05 Posterdati: what's wrong with the get-slots-in definition I gave above? 23:08:28 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:08:31 pjb: get-slots-in is undefined 23:08:42 Posterdati: check the logs. 23:08:45 minion: logs 23:08:45 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 23:09:00 dim: #\{ #\} #\[ #\] #\! and #\? are reserved for user defined reader macros, so anything you put on them should not break your image! 23:09:20 Posterdati: around <21:11:55>. 23:09:27 even if I manage to install code that reads past its realm? 23:09:48 Sure. C-c C-c and revert to the toplevel, and then avoid typing {! 23:10:31 -!- jsucsy1 [~jsucsy@static-98-113-154-10.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:33 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:34 sounds easy enough, someday I will try 23:10:51 what about limiting the reader macro in a given file/package/other scope? 23:11:59 pjb: ok, I didn't see your code :) 23:12:10 Posterdati: but now you see it right? 23:12:22 pjb: it works like the setf case 23:12:31 What do you mean? 23:13:25 pjb: objects got corrupted values, especially the grid type slots 23:13:34 but it must be another problem then 23:13:40 it's impossible in lisp to get corrupted values. 23:13:54 -!- dtm` [~dtm@adsl-69-110-9-24.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:14:01 yes, it should be something wrong in the algorithm I wrote 23:14:34 -!- substitute [~substitut@174-21-39-108.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:00 dim: LOAD binds *readtable*, so you can set *readtable* at the beginning of a file, and change the reader macro in that new *readtable*, and when the file is finished loading, the old *readtable* binding will be restored. 23:16:11 package/other scope is meaningless. 23:16:35 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279585004.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:17:59 do people regularly use paredit-raise-sexp? i'm having trouble understanding it's usefulness from the reference-table, and am bemoaning it's capture of m-r from the emacs default: move-to-window-line-top-bottom 23:17:59 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:01 pjb: I'd like to use the debugger to execute the code step by step 23:18:15 pjb: (defstruct corrupted-value ...) ;-) 23:18:22 Posterdati: Go ahead! 23:18:22 23:18:22 23:18:22 23:18:23 23:18:24 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:18:25 madnificent: :-) 23:18:33 pjb: yes how? lol 23:18:43 Actually, it's possible with (safety 0), but we won't enter this minefield. 23:18:43 pjb: or better yet: (defstruct corrupted ...) (values (make-corrupted ...) (make...)) 23:18:45 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-183-213-213.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:52 Posterdati: (step (code)) 23:19:10 Posterdati: also, set debug to 3 in order to make the standard stepper work 23:19:30 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:20:04 Posterdati: due to not being a license i like i hate to say it, but pjb has a stepper in one of his libraries. i've heard it works quite well. 23:20:15 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-187-44.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:20:45 madnificent: You're using GNU emacs no? GNU emacs is GPL3 too! 23:21:38 pjb: you make me feel dirty 23:22:06 wow it shows me the code executing! lol 23:22:32 madnificent: Perhaps you could try Acme, it's LPL. 23:22:33 pjb: fwiw, i don't want to find traces of it in my code and i'd prefer another effort for the same thing. but we've been down this path, so i'd rather have us stick to #lisp further. 23:23:20 robot-beethoven: Yes all the time 23:23:55 robot-beethoven: oh didn't notice. me too! very often, even 23:24:51 I use M- for paredit-raise-sexp, and indeed, I use it always. 23:24:57 pjb: If you try to access an object that was allocated on the stack (and the stack has been gone), you can get all kind of weirdly corrupted data. 23:25:08 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-177-248.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 23:25:30 tcr: that's impossible. When you try that, you hace a closure, and closures are not bugged in CL implementations. 23:26:02 (Oh, and right, I delete the (declare (dynamic-extend )) forms in the sources I touch :-)) 23:26:16 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 23:27:13 It can happen. Copy a value from the debugger (without knowing it was dx), then invoke a restart, try to access the value. 23:27:32 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:28:59 Sounds horrible. 23:30:40 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686757.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:30:48 -!- hsc [~hsc@c-24-18-240-154.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:31:17 pjb: so you prefer paredit-raise-sexp to paredit-splice-sexp-killing-backword? (which is the default for M- 23:32:07 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:43 robot-beethoven: no, I was confused. I'm using M-up and this is paredit-splice-sexp-killing-backward. 23:32:58 I don't see the difference with M-r 23:33:27 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@81.2.103.20] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:33:40 pjb: from what i can tell, M-r deletes all siblings in the list being raised, while M-up only deletes prior siblings 23:34:04 Yes, I see. Well, I've used M-up C-M-f C-M-k for that. But indeed, M-r could come handy. 23:34:33 And with a prefix, you can raise N siblings. 23:38:02 i'm curious -- is wanting to delete a sexp's surroundings (like these commands) a common occurrence? 23:38:28 i'll naturally keep on the lookout for this in my own hacking 23:38:37 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:39:06 Think of these commands and raising up a sub expression in the AST 23:39:13 s/and/as/ 23:39:53 it's pretty common 23:40:56 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 23:43:19 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abos30.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:45:33 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:36 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053007209.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:48:44 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:49:55 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:51:06 how can i get an arbitrary structure's slots as a list on conses? 23:51:17 of conses 23:51:56 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-157-126.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:52:17 axion: check: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#Improved-DEFSTRUCT-macro--run-time-access-to-the-fields 23:53:02 robot-beethoven: it happens. When editing code, it lets you ignore bad subexpressions, and retain only the good part. 23:53:30 harj [~harj@188-223-128-168.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:53:32 axion: you can't 23:55:48 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:56:18 Some implementation may provide an implementation dependant mechanism to get them. 23:56:24 ok 23:56:32 For example, some implementation could implement structures as CLOS objects, and then using the MOP would do. 23:57:01 But otherwise, you'd need implementation-level hacking, since it's not specified. 23:57:23 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:16 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp