00:07:29 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:08:28 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:42 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:59 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 00:17:16 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:21:53 Elven_Thief [~Elven@24-240-78-99.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:11 -!- agumonkey [~agu@243.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:24:17 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c048c.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 00:27:28 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:29:39 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:35:45 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.113.173] has joined #lisp 00:35:48 stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has joined #lisp 00:47:38 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 00:47:54 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:26 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:59:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:07:59 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.60.6] has joined #lisp 01:15:45 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EAC26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:16:38 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:18:19 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:18:38 bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 01:19:38 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:26:08 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:56 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A68E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:04 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A6C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:15 meiji11 [~user@S0106f8d111247e29.mh.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:30 -!- mizlev [~mzl@101.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: mizlev] 01:39:55 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 01:40:15 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:54 k0001_ [~k0001@host116.186-109-182.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:44:12 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host64.186-125-105.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:39 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:49:24 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:07 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:52:02 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-153.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 01:52:44 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:55 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:59 Seasons greetings, everybody! 01:54:13 I'm goign to drop a pastebin link in the mad hopes that somebody might be able to help me out. 01:54:16 http://pastebin.com/CWXgsQpD 01:54:50 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:53 I've been messing with this one macro for hours and I just can't figure out how to do what I want to do. 01:55:56 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:56:25 LAMMJohnson: you could make the lambda list ((tag &key traits) &body body) 01:56:46 that said, why is this even a macro? 01:58:22 I'm fairly new with Common Lisp and I'm doing dumb things. 01:58:42 Although I did get a copy of Let Over Lambda for Grav-Mass. 01:59:03 I take it from your respons that there's really no need to make this a macro, then. 01:59:27 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0EC13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:00:26 well, if you can write it as a function... 02:02:25 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 02:06:37 Oh, I finally did it. 02:06:42 Dropped the macro nonsense. 02:07:20 I'll wait until I understand them better to even bother. 02:08:36 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:09:51 I remember Practical Common Lisp having a section on an HTML generation library 02:10:13 And I think that had macros; you might want to look into that to understand them better. 02:10:27 Excellent, thankyou. 02:10:41 I read Land of Lisp a while back and it had a similar section. 02:11:15 And then, of course, I didn't use anythign I read about for months and months and forgot it. 02:11:42 Make something. 02:12:13 I'm working on a roguelike to learn CL. And serializing objects is really cool in it. 02:12:30 You're quite right that doing is the best way to learn. 02:13:00 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:13:09 Damned if I can deserialize it, though; seems that there's no redefining read like you can with print and print-object. 02:13:11 I'm looking to take advantage of being able to use Lisp to generate HTML as a doorway to avoiding havign to use PHP for something. 02:13:16 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:24 ... for anything. 02:14:14 What sort of HTML are you generating? 02:15:30 Really simple stuff. Just as a github user page. 02:16:12 maybe look at cl-who 02:16:33 Hm. By that, do you mean that it's just to show off, or is there some functionality that you can't get from preexisting libraries in some language? 02:17:06 Bike: It looks very promising 02:17:41 substitute: It's not really to show off. Lisp seems liek as good of a fit as any for the really simple generation I'm intending to do. 02:18:13 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:17 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:17 But I thought it would be nice to have a user page and most of the fancy stuff can be handled in CSS. 02:18:35 I'd just be generating a little bit og HTML with a list of my active projects and links. 02:18:57 Ah. 02:19:02 Just as something to link to people rather than my boring old projects page. 02:19:33 On another note, I remember that you were making/made a roguelike. 02:19:37 O 02:20:12 I even almost finished. 02:20:20 I went with CL for certain reasons that I didn't think C had, and I'm a little curious about something: 02:20:29 You must have a pretty good memory. I don't remember discussing it. 02:20:47 Would it have been difficult to handle metamagic in C? 02:21:07 I would recommend yaclml over cl-who. With yaclml it's easier to add your own custom "tags" such as (<:head (<:parenscript (parenscript-goes-here))) 02:21:13 You mean like in D&D? 02:21:16 That is, using a spell as a base and splicing various effects onto said spell. 02:21:21 Spell augment- 02:21:26 Quicken, fork, whatever. 02:21:50 i don't think so. You could just use a bunch of bitmasks. 02:22:21 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:31 But, then, things are simple when you know how eh? 02:22:38 I suppose so. 02:22:58 Seems like it would be easier in something with first-class functions, though: 02:23:13 There isn't a single obvious solution to me under, say, Common Lisp. 02:23:18 Call a spell, it outputs a function 02:23:30 i.e. I have a couple of ideas about how to handle it but none are the obvious "best." 02:23:31 Chain functions, then call it on an object. 02:23:39 I see what you mean. 02:23:58 You could map effect over effect over effect. 02:24:01 Some error handling for calling destroy-creature on a wall or something, I guess. 02:24:45 Seems like it'd be rather more extensible than bitmasks, too. 02:26:03 I think the main difference is that you approached the probled from the POV of algorithms and I approached from data. 02:26:32 problem* 02:27:36 maybe I don't fully understand the problem, but how about using :before :after and :around on generic functions? This challenge seems like it might be a good use for them.... 02:27:42 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-72-125.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:29:41 I'm not quite sure that bitmasks would support full functionality, either. 02:30:14 From what I understand, the idea would be to flip a bit per activated condition: one bit for fork, one for quicken, one for maximize, etc. 02:30:40 joekarma: This is part of CLOS? 02:30:43 yes 02:30:45 I'll look into it a bit more. 02:30:51 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-generic-functions.html 02:31:01 But chaining forks on forks to output 1024 fireballs doesn't seem to be possible with bitmasks, or at least one bitmask. 02:31:21 substitute: No, you're quire right. That's pure list processing. 02:31:25 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 02:33:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:34:53 Alright, I've got to sleep. 02:35:02 Cheers for the chat and keepign me interested long enough to get a bit further. 02:40:45 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:56 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:03 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 02:48:18 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:52:46 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:55:52 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 02:56:16 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 02:57:07 felipe_Brz [~chatzilla@177.192.40.56] has joined #lisp 02:58:43 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Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:03 findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:53 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 08:00:12 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:06:46 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-165-162.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: thought uncaught] 08:10:08 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.120] has joined #lisp 08:11:32 seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:01 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.182.20] has joined #lisp 08:18:13 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:38 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 08:19:26 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.180] has joined #lisp 08:20:46 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21:05 monadicity [~monad@gateway/tor-sasl/monadicity] has joined #lisp 08:21:12 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:23 what happens with xah lee? 08:21:49 who is that? 08:21:50 famous lisp hacker 08:21:59 who is that? 08:22:11 lol i thought you were a bot :> 08:22:13 http://xahlee.info/ here 08:22:15 no 08:22:28 I was wondering if he will become homeless?? 08:22:45 is this how america is? 08:23:01 exactly ^ 08:24:02 he needs $32k only 08:24:37 to me that is huge.... 08:25:46 where did you find that guy 08:25:56 on 4chan 08:26:03 the programmin forum 08:27:25 oh its only 325$ 08:28:34 because of the recession, it is difficult for programmer to get work? 08:30:00 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host4.190-224-61.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:30:35 I feel sad about it 08:31:23 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:33:29 hello lispers 08:33:55 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:33:55 monadicity: some would call him a lisp troll (: 08:35:40 is there a builtin function to collect a form execution time ? - something like (time ...) 08:36:06 yeh I think some people did bully him on comp.lang.lisp and others places 08:36:14 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-108-73-161-113.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:02 kiuma: yes. exactly what you said. 08:38:17 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@108.73.163.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:38:41 segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-150-134-166.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:59 Indecipherable, (time) prints out restult to *trace-output* how do I get these values ? 08:39:20 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 08:40:10 do I have to create a macro that calls two times get-internal-real-time ? 08:40:29 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:40:52 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-108-73-161-113.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:41:43 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.106.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:53 Probably, but i don't see why it must be a macro 08:44:15 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:44:47 What are you trying to accomplish? Return the times as values? 08:45:57 I'm binding ecore to CL, I'm simply performing some unit test. Some of which is to test timer bindings 08:46:16 Also, note that time returns both the real and the run time. so you call get-internal-real-time and get-internal-run-time 08:47:58 my test want to be simpler (for exaple I want to test that 5 ticks of one second of interval take between 5 and 6 seconds) 08:48:59 just to test that timer work (I don't need to test ecore of course, just my bindings) 08:51:17 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:52:19 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:50 Hmm... Isn't it simpler to just compute the difference? 08:56:24 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.243.68] has joined #lisp 08:57:08 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:00:28 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 09:02:47 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 09:03:39 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 09:04:05 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 09:05:04 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:27 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:06:50 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:01 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:09:49 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 09:11:07 mal_ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:02 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 09:13:01 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 09:21:48 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:14 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:35 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.160.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:07 -!- hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:30:11 kpreid [~kpreid@65.210.45.130] has joined #lisp 09:32:30 hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:32:50 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:36:41 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.243.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:40:08 -!- brguy [~idonteven@189-69-121-202.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:01 tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:18 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:18 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:45 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dc2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:35 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 09:58:37 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 10:05:54 bitonic [~user@37.182.85.41] has joined #lisp 10:05:58 Sorry to bother, but I'd like to check: 10:06:46 For a project that's using a .asd file, does every .lisp file have to be prefaced with (in-project :project-name)? 10:07:11 substitute: in-project? where did you see that? 10:07:32 substitute: usually, every file starts with (in-package :package-name) 10:07:59 Whoops, that's what I meant. 10:08:10 Orii [~AndChat48@pool-96-249-148-99.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:59 Just making sure that I'm not making a mistake with ASDF; I thought it would change the *package* variable automatically according to the .asd file. 10:09:03 substitute: the in-package form defines in which package the file will be read. it is possible to work without explicit in-package forms if you make sure that the default package is set up by other means, but conventional CL uses in-package in the beginning of each file. 10:09:13 substitute: no. asdf is not concerned with packages. 10:09:18 Hey everyone 10:09:36 -!- piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:10:19 What does :depends-on do, then? 10:10:46 substitute: it sets up system dependencies. asdf defines systems. 10:11:01 Hm. 10:11:10 lukas_ [~lukas@194.228.13.120] has joined #lisp 10:11:11 substitute: the terminology can be confusing, but it is really simple in the end. 10:11:27 So Quicklisp yanks dependencies based on :depends-on? 10:11:34 -!- lukas_ is now known as Guest73528 10:11:35 substitute: correct. 10:11:41 Pretty snazzy. 10:12:08 A couple other things: 10:12:35 If I set :serial to nil, would ASDF automagically decide the right way to compile things? 10:13:07 substitute: based on the dependency definitions, right 10:13:27 Is there a reason not to set it to nil? Speed? 10:13:32 substitute: i rarely use that nowadays, as my compiler is fast enough. 10:14:07 <|3b|> :serial t is a shortcut for specifying each file depends on the previous file 10:14:15 substitute: you set :serial to t if you want asdf to make files depend on one another based on the order in which they appear in the system definition. 10:14:28 <|3b|> if you don't need that you have to specify all dependencies by hand, but can be more precise 10:14:37 substitute: so if you change one file early in the definition, all following files will be recompiled. 10:14:49 I see. 10:14:57 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 10:15:02 substitute: as i said, with fast comuters, manually maintaining dependencies is often not worth the effort. 10:15:33 substitute: automatically determining the precise dependencies is rather difficult in common lisp, and all attempts to do that have failed. 10:15:44 A lot of what tripped me up was that ASDF was spewing circular-dependency errors due to out-of-sequence dependencies. 10:16:16 Which made me thought that the file was dependent upon itself in some fashion. 10:23:41 substitute: i think you are assuming the thing is way smarter than it is. 10:24:05 if you do not specify anything, it will just assume no dependency 10:24:47 Probably. 10:24:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-131.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:30:53 arrk13 [~arrakis24@78-0-146-158.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:39:47 bitonic` [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 10:41:12 -!- bitonic [~user@37.182.85.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:39 I really dislike :serial t. You have no idea what the inter-file dependencies are. 10:42:56 tcr: i don't know that either, which is why i prefer :serial t 10:43:22 Why? 10:43:39 I also favor explicitly importing symbols rather than just using a whole package. 10:43:53 tcr: i favor not importing anything 10:44:16 H4ns: Yes, that can be nice, too. 10:44:50 tcr: it works well for me. i've been practicing that and one-package-per-file for over a year now and never looked back. 10:45:17 Are working jointly with drewc nowadays? 10:45:40 tcr: no, i'm basically working alone. 10:45:50 Do you give the packages nicknames? 10:45:57 substitute: no. 10:46:22 It seems like it would be a right nuisance, typing cl-charms or similar over and over. 10:46:47 substitute: that does not bother me at all 10:47:17 substitute: slime does a good job at automatically expanding package and symbol names using M-TAB, and dabbrevs are a great help, too. 10:48:09 Neat. I've never heard about that. 10:48:16 substitute: i can't understand why people keep complaining about "how much" they need to type. i rather type more than having a hard time to decipher the abbreviations that were invented on the fly when reading code, be it my own or that written by others. 10:48:31 Is that built-in, or do you have to get that quicklisp-slime-helper package? 10:48:46 substitute: dabbrev is in emacs by default, just type M-/ (repeatedly) 10:49:05 substitute: M-TAB is bound by default in slime. 10:49:09 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 10:49:51 M-/ looks really cool. 10:50:03 substitute: and it is not restricted to lisp 10:50:04 Is it based off of everything that's available, or only what's used? 10:50:14 substitute: it is based off all buffers that are loaded 10:50:17 What's been used, rather. 10:50:20 I see. 10:51:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:51:14 DrCode [~Me@213.57.57.2] has joined #lisp 10:53:33 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:57 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:19 xahlee is not a lisp hacker, and he's not famous, but infamous. 10:58:06 pjb: why do you mention him then? 11:01:03 Check the logs 3 hours ago. 11:01:48 pjb: i don't feel like commenting on conversations held in my absence, but that is just me. 11:02:38 I want to straighten the record. 11:03:54 Now about dependencies, indeed, since the number of files are rather limited, we could write an order discovery routine, that would try to load them in different orders until a good one is found. 11:04:01 EarlGray^ [~mitra@cl-148.led-01.ru.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:46 Now, some systems are even more complex than that, and would need to load several times the same file But that's another story. 11:06:16 hi. if i want to append a vector to the end of an existing vector, i know of two choices, use vector-push repeatedly, or concatenate, which actually creates a new vector. are there any other/better choices? 11:08:37 I just was able to unbind alt-tab in KDE, and that looks to be a very useful command. 11:08:56 Especially since it lets you see everything available, instead of just what's in the buffers. 11:09:26 substitute: it also works for partial words, try m-v-b 11:10:08 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@cl-148.led-01.ru.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:10:16 faheem: you've been told yesterdays! Use adjust-array and replace!!! 11:10:43 pjb: if someone told me yesterday, i missed it. 11:11:06 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:07 i can't see adjust-array IN THE LOGS111! 11:11:25 That's incredible, H4ns. 11:11:26 is that better than using vector-push repeatedly? 11:11:50 faheem: "better"? 11:12:04 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:12:05 faheem: you keep talking about better without setting any context. 11:12:20 i was thinking of extending the vectow with zero values and overwriting the zero values, which i assume is the same 11:12:27 One more thing: 11:12:35 H4ns: "keep talking"? 11:12:41 How do you run a program organized with ASDF through the command line? 11:13:08 faster and less consing would be reasonable criteria i suppose 11:13:09 substitute: you mean from the shell? i use buildapp to generate stand-alone executables from my asdf systems 11:13:27 faheem: or just use: (setf old-sequence (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.sequence:replace-subseq new-elements old-sequence (length old-sequence))) 11:14:10 pjb: ok 11:14:17 Doesn't compiling most Lisp programs generate unusually large executables? 11:14:28 It works better if old-sequence is adjustable, but it works ok if not. 11:14:36 substitute: no. 11:14:45 substitute: i'm used to the size of the executables that i create with buildapp. 11:14:57 substitute: a few dozen mb, who cares. 11:14:59 See http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#ECL-Specific-Tricks 11:15:05 [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:15:13 How about 10 KB? 11:16:03 That is a compelling argument. 11:16:30 substitute: pjb tries to tell you that it is all lies of the anti-lisp conspiracy, but for practical purposes, i'd recommend that you give in to large executables and work on your actual problems. 11:16:58 substitute: you can waste your youth proving them wrong, but what's the pont? :D 11:16:58 -!- monadicity [~monad@gateway/tor-sasl/monadicity] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:17:15 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:17:27 point even 11:17:40 So what's the catch to ECL? 11:18:31 substitute: it compiles slowly, and is not very popular as a general-purpose lisp 11:19:30 How slowly, and does that mean that I couldn't just compile my program with ECL? 11:19:35 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 11:19:42 Or rather, that I couldn't without rewriting it. 11:19:56 substitute: you can run conformant cl programs in ecl 11:20:55 What are the odds that, for an arbitrary program, that I'm using functionality that has functionality that exceeds the CL specifications? 11:20:59 substitute: with respect to compilation speed: you need to try to find out whether much is a lot to you. 11:21:12 substitute: the odds would be arbitrary too 11:21:46 substitute: if you write programs that don't need anything but character i/o, then you can safely assume that any cl will be useable as the compiler. 11:21:49 substitute: why are large executables a problem? in most cases it is because there is an included lisp image i think. from observation it looks like the executable = image+ ones own code (which is usually is smaller) 11:22:13 so the size is relatively large, but doesn't go up that fast 11:22:24 substitute: networking wasn't specified in the spec, that's something that may happen often. and an FFI isn't specified either, that's something that happens often. however, these things have defacto standards, it seems, so in practice it's all ok 11:22:43 this is true for sbcl and ccl at least. i haven't tried anything else 11:23:31 So, I have objects, character IO, Quicklisp, ASDF, and CFFI-bindings through cl-charms. 11:23:45 Do any of those stick out? 11:23:46 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:24:02 substitute: why are you so concerned with the size of your executables now? 11:24:13 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:43 Excessive concern with "bloat," I figure. 11:25:07 substitute: please do not use cl if you hate "bloat" 11:25:10 Seemed a bit odd that a rinky-dink roguelike built on Ncurses would have 25MB right off the bat. 11:25:12 substitute: cl is a bloated language. 11:25:28 substitute: *shrug* 11:25:40 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-59-119.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:40 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-59-119.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:25:40 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:25:40 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:25:50 I'll live with it, though. 11:26:19 substitute: please do :) 11:26:22 Imho, there are few high-level languages that can compile compact executables 11:26:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Client Quit] 11:26:35 C doesn't have some things that I want, and I'd rather use a language that I know somewhat than bone up on another. 11:26:37 If any 11:26:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 Lisp is pretty rad, besides. 11:27:28 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:27:30 Indecipherable: I hear that Scheme technically can, with the Stalin compiler. 11:28:02 Or perhaps I'm confusing it with execution time. 11:28:18 I refuse to believe it 11:28:21 Rigt down to C's level, for one of them. 11:28:37 But the compiling time is horrible from what I've heard. 11:28:56 The only ever compact executables i produced was in C and assembly 11:29:16 So there must be a trick 11:29:38 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:29:51 Evil magic involved 11:29:59 it is all trade-offs. in the end, most people just do not have the time to spend on reducing the executable size once the program is done. 11:30:07 i'm seeing a warning like "the local variables list in elementwise.lisp contains values that may not be safe" 11:30:43 and in situations where executable size really matters, it is advisable to use a language that meets the storage constraints right away, without trickery. that is where something like ecl would be useful. 11:32:39 Indecipherable: ecl uses gcc. That's why it's slow, and why it produce executables as small as any C program. 11:32:49 that's the trick. 11:34:09 never seen this warning before. not sure what is causing it 11:35:15 faheem: paste the code and the error message. http://paste.lisp.org/ 11:35:50 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:39:27 H4ns: it is complaining about some library code. but ok 11:40:20 Indecipherable: The reason C executables look compact is that you're not counting the runtime library. 11:41:21 (A.k.a. "the operating system".) 11:41:50 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:13 i disagree that lisp is bloated. with ccl, the whole lisp image is like 12mb. that is like the complete language, as far as i can tell 11:43:28 tcr1 [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:43:42 as least, i seem to be able to run arbitary programs inside it 11:44:01 the complete language including the implementation 11:45:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:46:23 How big are the fasls? I've never made one of those before. 11:46:40 Or rather: How large is hello-world.fasl? 11:46:44 substitute: try it 11:46:52 (compile-file "hello.lisp") 11:47:24 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 11:48:45 (format "Hello, world!") turns up 804 bytes. 11:48:47 Neat. 11:48:59 substitute: i see 250 bytes with ccl 11:49:10 I used SBCL. 11:49:13 substitute: (with a hello world that'd actually work, that is) 11:49:28 substitute: some lisps allow you to concatenate fasls 11:49:58 substitute: so what you can do is compile your program into fasls and distribute that. that'll hide the size of the lisp runtime in the compiler package 11:50:14 substitute: but note that fasls often are not cross-version compatible. 11:50:19 Oh, bugger, I forgot the format. 11:50:23 bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 11:50:26 Stream, rather. 11:50:33 Still at 804 bytes. 11:51:01 Sounds kinda like Java. 11:53:45 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.172.238.53] has joined #lisp 11:54:15 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:57 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:16 Fatal MISSING-OUTPUT-ARGUMENT: Required argument --output not provided 11:55:33 substitute: please do read the documentation. 11:55:54 I apologize. I'll go over it again. 11:56:48 in clisp, hw.fas is 578 bytes. Prepend "#!/usr/bin/clisp -ansi -norc" and you've got an executable. 11:59:24 mizlev [~mzl@101.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:51 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:53 -!- [1]JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Chicks dig it] 12:01:15 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:02:12 paul0 [~paulo@177.16.205.165] has joined #lisp 12:03:27 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 12:05:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:08:39 and what is the source size? is there any dependency requirements difference when shipping the clisp .fas file rather than the source? any speed advantage when running the script? 12:08:56 38 bytes. 12:09:14 No measurable difference. 12:09:15 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:39 solved. using clisp, just ship the sources... 12:09:55 Aren't all questions you may ask about hello world DUMB? 12:10:00 I guess it boils down to about the same thing for sbcl or ccl anyway, right? 12:10:08 Right. 12:10:28 -!- pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Quit: needs to reboot :-(] 12:11:46 so the main attract to ship binaries (bloated) is targeting non CLI users, I guess 12:14:44 *stassats* missed some silly discussion, good 12:15:15 To make it so that any potential Windows gents might be able to play it. 12:15:23 Or at least through pdcurses or something. 12:16:45 Thra11 [~thrall@175.106.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:00 add^_ [~add^_@m83-190-161-220.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.172.238.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:24:44 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:12 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:24 is there an OCR lib for common lisp? I just found http://www.common-lisp.ru/oci/oco.html but wonder if there's some resources I can read (I don't read russian) 12:29:23 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.172.200.228] has joined #lisp 12:30:36 why does it have to be lisp? 12:31:09 -!- barik [~barik@short.csc.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:31:11 usable from a lisp program at least, I'd say 12:31:23 barik [~barik@short.csc.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 12:31:35 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:32:11 -!- DrCode [~Me@213.57.57.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:58 i used gocr (i think, maybe something else) with run-program 12:34:55 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:44 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:16 urandom__ [~user@p54B0E2C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:33 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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[~andrew@d118-75-192-10.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:19:24 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:22:29 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:43 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 15:22:54 pavelpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has joined #lisp 15:24:01 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.198.110] has joined #lisp 15:25:56 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:00 zero_coder [~chatzilla@223.196.195.161] has joined #lisp 15:29:06 hello 15:29:07 #google 15:29:49 good evening 15:30:24 good even 15:30:51 how are you doing today? 15:31:23 BountyX [~andrew@d118-75-192-10.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:53 *eMBee* wants to iterate over a list in a way that it starts with the first item, then the first and second item, then the first, second, third, and so on. 15:32:06 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:07 brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has joined #lisp 15:32:30 should probably be able to do that with loop, but i feel stuck at the moment 15:33:01 and you want to do that in lisp? 15:33:09 naturally 15:33:22 i have no idea :) 15:33:27 not a lisper 15:33:42 want to learn lisp? 15:33:53 i was told that lisper's are enlighetened people 15:34:16 ofcoz 15:34:26 nikodem [~mikey@user-164-126-9-98.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:34:28 he , you do lisp? 15:36:05 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:36:09 *eMBee* forgot to mention that the iteration should stop as soon as a specific condition is met 15:36:25 eMBee: but what are you really trying to do? 15:36:55 working on subsets...... 15:37:15 but in a reentrant way...... 15:37:27 wbooze: are you eMBee? 15:37:29 Not elegant, perhaps, but bind the first and second to a couple variables, manually program the 1-2-1-2 pattern, and map as usual? 15:38:05 i have a list of search terms, like a sentence, and i want to find that part of the sentence that gets me a single match. so i search for the first word, and get multiple matches, then i search for the first two words and get less matches (because they need to match both) until i find the best match 15:38:23 -!- brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has quit [Quit: Don't use quit!] 15:38:40 -!- zero_coder [~chatzilla@223.196.195.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:38:41 *eMBee* is only eMBee, never anything else. not playing around with nicknames 15:40:14 the best match is not the exact match? 15:40:28 Slade to group, Slade to group, is anyone reading me? 15:40:48 exact match would be best if it exists, it may not 15:41:11 zero_coder [~chatzilla@223.196.195.161] has joined #lisp 15:41:23 i hope it's not a homework 15:41:23 are you still there? 15:41:55 *eMBee* is more than a decade past doing homework :-) 15:42:04 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:08 my ERC bugged, anyone reading me, someone say something! :) 15:42:09 lol 15:42:20 nan_: nobody is 15:42:29 nobody can read you 15:42:30 stassats: i believe you! 15:42:38 are you really soying something 15:42:43 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:42:44 ? 15:42:44 saying* 15:43:21 eMBee: what about a modified KMP? 15:43:47 *eMBee* is unfamiliar with KMP. looking that up... 15:44:24 ? 15:44:30 then i ask my question agian, the one i asked 12 hours ago! anyone here using ECL? 15:44:31 KnuthMorrisPratt_algorithm ? 15:44:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:44:36 yes 15:44:48 nan_: some are, but that's a bad question 15:45:23 stassats: i just want to know if it is mature, or if you'd suggest for a newbie, as it looks like it is my only viable option 15:45:44 i would say it's not mature, but it depends on what you do 15:46:56 -!- zero_coder [~chatzilla@223.196.195.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:47:02 stassats: i have a game engine (c++) which i am planning to use both on pc and öpb 15:47:08 pc and mobile* 15:47:58 eMBee: well, maybe you don't need performance, i don't know 15:50:47 Vicfred [~Grothendi@187.206.16.124] has joined #lisp 15:50:52 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:57 moreover i am not searching in text but on object attributes, so i am really asking: give me the objects that contain all the words in this partial list, reverse: i want to know: what is the shortest part of the input list that returns a single search result 15:51:58 the serch space is a few to a few hundred items, so perfomance is not really an issue 15:52:16 search space 15:52:24 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:53:13 Pseudocode for the program? 15:54:59 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:55:55 eMBee: well, if you don't want performance, then just do that 15:56:27 maybe this helps as illustration: imagine a directory tree with descriptive directory names. the search input sort of represents a path. but it is not a complete path. the user leaves out details, just includes enough to that directories can be matched.so if i have a path like ABC/DEF/GHI, userinput of A/E/H would match because A matches ABC, and so on 15:57:59 actually, the user input is A E H, to be clear 15:59:37 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.182.20] has joined #lisp 15:59:48 but this is one step above whati am trying to solve right now 16:00:18 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:20 (let ((list '(1 2 3 4 5 6))) (loop for i in list collect i into sub-list do (print sub-list))) 16:01:19 yeah, that's part of it. somehow i had a brain-freeze 16:02:13 in revers would be easier (let ((list '(1 2 3 4 5 6))) (loop for sub-list on list do (print sub-list))) 16:02:27 i need something like (loop for i in list collect i into sub-list until (test sub-list) return sublist and testresult) 16:06:28 I need to define a callback that has to retunr an int using cffi. To do so I've defined the callback with (defcallback .... 1). I've got this error Unexpected Error: # when the callback is called. Why ? how can I solve it ? 16:06:57 bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 16:07:33 you can first paste the code 16:07:35 Sounds like something to do with ASCII characters. 16:08:02 putchar or something doesn't print #\a 16:08:13 You have to give it (char-code #\a) 16:09:07 At least, that's the first and last time I remember seeing that. 16:09:11 substitute: it doesn't sound like that at all 16:09:45 *eMBee* thought the T in that error is True 16:10:09 let's not guess and wait until kiuma pastes the code 16:10:42 ah, I didn't understand u meant me stassats 16:10:47 1 second 16:11:33 I've been working with cl-charms 16:11:43 A cffi binding to Ncurses 16:12:14 (addch #\a) gives me this: 16:12:17 The value #\a is not of type (SIGNED-BYTE 32). 16:12:17 [Condition of type TYPE-ERROR] 16:12:20 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:12:33 well, we're not talking about your error, are we? 16:13:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134282 16:13:51 comment on code added only for testing purposes 16:14:45 ecore api is here http://docs.enlightenment.org/stable/ecore/group__Ecore__Event__Group.html#gad78683386ab6174b27aefb2bf75599e7 16:15:25 What's the backtrace? 16:15:25 how is this called? 16:15:32 kiuma: :type t? 16:15:36 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:06 -!- mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:27 Yes I don't know why, if i subst 1 with nil it says that cannot be nil 16:16:41 your callback has nothing to do with it 16:16:46 it complains about :int 16:17:48 let me remove Chritmas carols from the code and I push it on github 16:17:51 so, figure where you pass T to :int 16:18:26 the full code would be more clear, right 16:20:36 -!- BountyX [~andrew@d118-75-192-10.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:21:43 BountyX [~andrew@d118-75-192-10.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:13 and of course a backtrace 16:22:45 this is the full code https://github.com/kiuma/CL-ECORE 16:23:35 and the backtrace? 16:24:03 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 16:26:10 trying to return #\a instead of. The value #\a is not of type (SIGNED-BYTE 32)... 16:26:30 so it seems that the failure point is there 16:26:44 you just create another failure point 16:27:12 and i'm still waiting for the backtrace to the original error 16:27:30 Alternately, it could just mean you're not providing the argument to intend to. 16:28:13 you intend to, rather. 16:29:44 I've to disable that test first 16:31:14 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:33:06 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.197.223] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:34:12 werwerwer_ [~1@158.181.207.2] has joined #lisp 16:35:07 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 16:35:27 -!- deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:47 deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:59 -!- xaxisx [~joey@67.217.170.130] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:49 ApeShot [~user@adsl-072-151-072-160.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:57 Anyone using cl-selenium? 16:37:27 The documentation is sparse and I'd like to see if I am doing something out of the ordinary and hence impossible. 16:37:40 substitute: cl-charms is largerly unfinished. I've been working on a curses binding for a while. 16:38:35 substitute, stassats http://paste.lisp.org/display/134282#1 16:38:40 charms does not translate C and Lisp types automatically, you'd have to wrap all the defcfuns in lisp first. I'm working on that. 16:39:11 kiuma: i don't see a backtrace 16:39:22 I don't have it 16:39:29 what happened to it? 16:39:34 ApeShot: if you get it running, i'd be interested in knowing how well it went :) 16:39:38 can't you type "backtrace"? 16:39:46 and I can't gain control inside emacs 16:39:51 and press RET 16:39:55 madnificent: I have it running 16:39:57 I try 16:39:58 Are you using Slime and SBCL? 16:40:10 madnificent: the issue is that it seems as though no complex location strategies work 16:40:12 Yes and disabled threads 16:40:26 madnificent: I can't for instance, locate via a `dom=expr` form 16:40:43 madnificent: even if I try something that should always succeed, like `dom=document` 16:41:17 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:41:18 madnificent: We'd really love to drive our tests from within CL, since everything else we do is in Lisp 16:41:24 ApeShot: how do you know it's running? 16:41:48 That's an odd-looking backtrace. 16:42:03 kiuma: ok, that seems like you're returning the result of REMHASH 16:42:10 from the callback in event-add 16:42:36 which is T if it removed something 16:42:44 augh !!!! 16:42:55 THANKS 16:43:17 also for the backtrace tip 16:43:17 ApeShot: what call are you doing for the locate expression? 16:43:36 madnificent: Because I have a selenium test browser open and I can drive it from the repl, load pages, enter date, etc 16:43:54 madnificent: (do-type "dom=document" "SELETEST") 16:44:13 madnificent: obviously, I can't type into the dom, but I am getting an element location error from Lisp 16:44:13 zero_coder [~chatzilla@106.67.186.93] has joined #lisp 16:44:36 hello 16:44:37 anybody research in AI? 16:45:03 zero_coder: I used to be a neuroscientist 16:45:26 cool 16:45:36 zero_coder: I think by modern standards Lisp is not a great AI language 16:45:36 and now? 16:45:38 zero_coder: try #ai ? 16:45:50 zero_coder: Now I am a common lisp programmer 16:45:55 jeti` [~user@p548EAC26.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:03 i have been in that room for ages i suppose 16:46:06 its kinda dead 16:46:19 all the cool ai researchers are probably in #machine-learning 16:46:19 ApeShot: the docs say do-type is there to enter content in an input field. dom=document isn't a locator, is it? 16:46:20 what language is used now? 16:46:42 ApeShot: I don't see how lisp would be any worse at AI than other languages 16:47:13 so , what is it like to be researcher ?? 16:47:22 It was better, but now the playing field is equal. That's all. 16:48:05 It's not like the language standard changed and degraded it >.> 16:48:15 Indecipherable: The thing is most AI research these days is in machine-learning areas, where you are doing a lot of numerical stuff, rather than symbol manipulation 16:48:25 Indecipherable: you can do numerical things in Lisp, but I wouldn't 16:48:32 Indecipherable: At least, not in Common Lisp 16:48:34 xaxisx [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:35 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:36 *madnificent* would 16:48:43 Indecipherable: when I was a neuroscientist I wrote a Lisp to matlab transcoder 16:49:00 Indecipherable: and did all my work in a horrible mishmash of Matlab and Lisp 16:49:02 xaxisx [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:15 Because the Matlab JIT is _really_ exceptional these days 16:49:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:49:29 ApeShot : what is it like to be scientist? 16:49:30 Very difficult to beat in a Common Lisp 16:49:40 zero_coder: Well, why do you ask 16:49:49 can you ask that not in #lisp? 16:49:49 CL sucks at numerical processing? 16:49:57 *Indecipherable* gasps 16:49:57 well, i havent made a career option yet 16:50:01 Indecipherable: it doesn't suck 16:50:08 Indecipherable: it just isn't as nice as Matlab 16:50:16 Indecipherable: and not as fast 16:50:30 Indecipherable: It isn't a bad language for numerical work, its just not what I would use and did use 16:51:07 I heard myths of a Neuroscientist who did all his numerical work in a custom Lisp dialect that he created 16:51:08 I understand :) 16:51:11 Never pinned them down 16:51:31 zero_coder: its not on topic, so here is the short answer. Science is hard. 16:51:41 I would use CL for its development environment over matlab for its bindings to ye olde fortran libraries, but... the point is that /other people/ do neuroscience or machine learning or ... in matlab 16:51:44 Though AI is not just machine learning 16:51:51 not as fast of matlab? For what definition of fast? 16:52:07 but science is interesting , i suppose 16:52:22 But, yeah 16:52:27 (I hate matlab. With a lot of passion. But I still have a CL<->matlab bridge somewhere, as well as a prolog<->matlab bridge for maximum hilarity) 16:52:49 i never thought i'd see matlab and fast in the same sentence :) 16:52:59 lol 16:53:00 well, the point about exchangeability of code is real 16:53:13 zero_coder: #science #ai 16:53:14 Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.73.226] has joined #lisp 16:53:15 xristos: isn't there a Matlab->Fortran compiler included in matlab? 16:53:17 xristos: when was the last time you used it 16:53:27 5 years ago 16:53:28 xristos: I used it _extensively_ for the last ten years, roughly 16:53:38 In the last 5 years its JIT has become exceptional 16:53:44 you are pointing me to dead rooms 16:53:52 i was doing some signal processing for a computer vision app 16:53:52 am i in #matlab? 16:53:55 i thnk people up there are mummies 16:54:05 zero_coder: the answer to that is not to come into other rooms and talk about things you want to talk about 16:54:21 if there's no-one in there, that means no-one on this network wants to talk about those things (to a first approximation) 16:54:22 Krystof: CL<->matlab bridge sounds interesting. I have to deal with matlab code frequently. 16:54:32 oh god now I'll have to dig it out 16:54:37 https://github.com/VincentToups/parenlab 16:54:38 the horrors 16:54:50 i am sorry 16:54:58 LiamH: You can try my insane sexpression Matlab syntax built in Emacs Lisp 16:55:03 If we take Matlab as a base level, CL has had exceptional AOT for the past 20 years ;) 16:55:15 ApeShot: I will take a look. 16:55:22 stassats: #methlab 16:55:23 it's amazing what kind of speed improvements you can get if your first version is truly sucky 16:55:27 LiamH: you write the macros in Emacs Lisp, but other than that it is a complete Lisp experience 16:55:36 LiamH: with some reasonable editor integration 16:56:03 LiamH: Emacs can evaluate an expression in parenlab, turn the result back into a readable parenlab s-expression, and insert it into your buffer 16:56:08 LiamH: that kind of thing 16:56:37 LiamH: It will no doubt take some setting up, since I'm the only person who has ever used it, but message me on github if you have questions 16:56:51 LiamH: I'd be happy if someone made use of it, since I don't do science anymore. 16:57:16 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:21 ~/tmp/gibbons/crhodes/lisp/tmp/matlab.lisp 16:57:25 ApeShot: OK; this won't get my attention for a while 16:57:32 this should give some indication of the last time I used this :-) 16:58:41 Krystof: I was doing a project using fuzzy-c-means say 6 years ago 16:58:46 oh, I remember this. This was something that didn't work if you "forgot" to install /bin/csh (because the matlab engine depends on it) 16:58:54 Krystof: the clustering was a bottleneck, so I wrote the algorithm in C 16:59:24 Krystof: my background is in physics, so I've been writing numerical C for a long time. I am not a wizard, but I am competent 16:59:43 Krystof: the Matlab version of C-means was not native; it was written in Matlab 17:00:09 Krystof: my C version was only about 10% faster, and that was after some fiddling with register variables and so on. 17:00:34 ah yes, regsiter variables. The sure fire way to detect math or physics students who think they know how to optimise C. 17:00:36 Krystof: This was about the time that the JIT started tog et really good 17:00:51 pkhuong: as I said, I'm not a C wizard 17:01:16 But if matlab was really terribly slow, you'd think even a naive implementation in C would be significantly better. 17:01:31 isn't fuzzy-c-means something that basically boils down to a bunch of nicely matrix-operation-friendly steps? 17:01:38 If you ran the same matlab code in Octave, for instance, it was significantly slower that both 17:01:39 or: all the time is spent in BLAS/LAPACK. 17:02:33 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@187.206.16.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:50 That doesn't really matter. Matlab was significantly easier to work with than almost any other language with BLAS/LAPACK bindings 17:03:10 Yes, you can get that kind of performance out of other systems 17:03:25 It seems like you've just got a chip on your shoulder about Matlab, which is fine 17:03:29 If a bit silly 17:03:55 well, I'm interested in the truth of your statement about a fantastic JIT 17:03:57 lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:03:58 right, fast (because of awesome JIT) means RAD now. I don't think anyone disputed the convenience of matlab, although libraries like matlisp and numpy are very nice. 17:04:11 In any case, when I was using Matlab for a Lisp backend I did not write idiomatic, vectorized code 17:04:23 And I still got excellent performance 17:04:36 brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has joined #lisp 17:04:47 Significantly better than using an Octave backend, for instance. 17:04:52 Similar to a Common Lisp 17:05:34 As an example, Parenlab includes an implementation of purely functional monadic parser combinators, not exactly BLAS/LAPACK material 17:05:35 "a" common lisp? On many workloads, that's a runtime range of 10-100x. 17:05:42 And they are extremely fast in Matlab 17:06:06 -!- asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-96-241-145-22.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:06:07 I parse many thousands of complicated filenames with them in seconds 17:06:10 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 17:06:27 And I can assure you that the generated code is about as far away from something that is nice for Matlab as you can get 17:06:39 Tons of lambda expressions, no vector operations, etc 17:07:31 -!- CrazyEddy [~tangly@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:07:39 pkhuong: at my current job we use Franz 17:07:40 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:59 pkhuong: so use that as your basis for comparison 17:08:11 bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 17:08:23 last time i checked, allegro cl wasn't all that speedy 17:08:44 I think its not as fast as SBCL, which I use at home 17:08:48 It is also pretty weird 17:08:58 stassats: it has awesome stuff for non-consing symbolic manipulation. 17:09:00 We have had lots of problems with modern-mode 17:09:32 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.60.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:09:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@65.210.45.130] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:09:38 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:47 But otherwise Franz is good 17:10:47 Nice to have a fast prolog around 17:10:47 Although we've had issues with optimizing the prolog performance 17:11:56 -!- ApeShot [~user@adsl-072-151-072-160.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:31 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.60.6] has joined #lisp 17:14:19 stassats, substitute I've just found the criminal snippet: (unless *event* (setf *event* (make-instance 'ecore-event :type ,g-event-type))) 17:14:28 is somehow not correct 17:14:45 removing it makes the test pass 17:14:54 What is g-event-type? 17:15:39 gensym for event-type 17:15:42 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:06 that's like saying "if i don't run the code, it doesn't fail" 17:16:25 -!- mizlev [~mzl@101.Red-79-154-73.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: mizlev] 17:18:15 -!- zero_coder [~chatzilla@106.67.186.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:57 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.180] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 17:20:33 cl is actually fairly fast. i do numerical computations, and while it isn't as fast as C/C++, C/C++ is unspeakably horrible to write if one is doing anything complicated, and hellish to debug. If one needs a language that is both fast and expressive, CL starts looking quite reasonable. 17:20:43 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:44 well, some implementations of cl 17:21:23 Some are fairly fast? 17:21:41 zero_coder [~chatzilla@106.67.154.93] has joined #lisp 17:21:55 Which are the slow ones? 17:21:57 i wrote about it here, but nobody cared -> http://scicomp.stackexchange.com/questions/1454/using-unconventional-programming-languages-for-scientific-computation 17:22:02 substitute: yes 17:22:22 substitute, there are two problems there the first one I expected *event* to be not null, the other one is that when *event* is null (for system events) making instances of ecore-events should work! 17:22:33 substitute: well, sbcl and ccl seem (relatively) fast 17:22:37 CrazyEddy [~semirotun@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:22:58 substitute: i haven't really worked with any other cl implementations, and i am a beginner anyway 17:23:00 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:23:16 Relative being within twice C's execution time? 17:23:28 regardless, i rewrote some of my C++ code to CL, and it seems quite reasonable speed wise 17:23:40 substitute: yes, using C/C++ as a benchmark 17:23:45 well, i can write sections in Assembly from lisp, so it can be faster than C, if i want to 17:23:46 substitute: i don't really use C 17:24:07 stassats: i don't know assembly 17:24:35 well, not knowing things is curable, fortunately 17:24:43 silly boy 17:24:56 and of course, CL pretty much beats the crap out of C++ is most departments other than speed 17:26:02 It seems pretty fast to me, too. 17:26:17 stassats: that is true. but can one run the same assembly code in both 32 and 64 bit mode? 17:26:25 I was going along with a Make a Roguelike tutorial on Roguebasin 17:26:51 It used Libtcod and Python, and that was unnaturally slow and it just felt bad to use. 17:27:01 substitute: as described in that question on scicomp, i have been using C++ as a backend to Python, which has been... painful. 17:27:10 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.180] has joined #lisp 17:27:14 so i've been looking for alternatives 17:27:22 SBCL + cl-charms is nice and snappy, approx. as much as C and ncurses. 17:27:26 faheem: if you don't use features only present in the 64-bit mode, you can 17:27:52 substitute: cl-charms is for curses? 17:28:03 stassats: i see. thanks. 17:28:08 Indecipherable: look af fortran for spped in computation... matlab is only a bad emulation. :) 17:28:25 s/speed/sped/ 17:28:52 faheem: Right. It's cffi bindings to ncurses. 17:29:27 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.139] has joined #lisp 17:29:28 substitute: python is very slow. it has been my main language since 2004/2005 or so. i like it, but speed is not its only problem 17:29:31 Built to exceed cl-ncurses, if I'm not mistaken. 17:29:42 -!- brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has quit [Quit: Don't use quit!] 17:29:55 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 17:30:05 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:30 brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has joined #lisp 17:30:53 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:57 for example, i was just running some simple python code to compare to some simple cl code. python takes 4 min 47 sec, sbcl about 3.5 sec (fastest version) 17:31:21 and the cl code could probably be made faster 17:31:40 while it is not C, it is not bad 17:31:55 *eMBee* is still puzzled how to get this loop right: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134286 the iteration part is working, but the termination condition is not 17:32:07 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 17:32:27 Tau [~Euler@186-194-45-62.i-next.psi.br] has joined #lisp 17:32:49 -!- Tau [~Euler@186-194-45-62.i-next.psi.br] has left #lisp 17:33:22 franv [~chatzilla@190.192.28.129] has joined #lisp 17:33:34 Isn't it faster to parse s-exps? 17:34:21 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:53 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-47-42.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:35:04 What is *db*? 17:35:07 I would say that python is dynamic, but so is cl. 17:35:29 eMBee: it should be when, not until 17:35:40 I would say that python is interpreted, but so is cl. 17:35:41 Indecipherable: they both are. not sure who you are addressing, sorry 17:35:46 CL is compiled. 17:36:07 substitute a datastucture, details shouldn't matter, what matters is what find-best-matches returns 17:36:09 Indecipherable: i got bitch slapped once for talking about the cl interpreter 17:36:16 Isn't cl optionally compiled? 17:36:35 it was explained to me that the correct term is implementation 17:36:36 REPLs compile lisp code. 17:36:59 chenbing [~user@223.167.179.178] has joined #lisp 17:37:00 stassats: oh right, when x return y, duh, thanks! 17:37:06 the distinction between compiled and interpreted doesn't make sense for languages 17:37:22 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-109-10.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37:35 only for implementations 17:37:36 Ok, so this is one cause of python's slowness 17:38:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-9-90.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:01 That makes me wonder, though: What does Python do at its REPL? 17:38:02 Well, Cpython 17:38:18 substitute: ask #python 17:38:36 Python does compile into .pyc, but not interactively 17:38:44 stassats: python byte compiles 17:38:48 I hear tell that it's an interpreted language, but does that mean that it never compiles things at the REPL? 17:38:59 Indecipherable: there's "minimal compilation", but in general all implementations have compilers, and most default to them (I think ACL, clisp and ECL still have an evaluator?) 17:39:02 substitute: ^^ 17:39:04 stassats: sorry 17:39:06 But I digress. 17:39:25 substitute: it is a virtual machine kind of thing, i think 17:39:28 can i go to #python and ask what SBCL does at the REPL? 17:39:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:39:50 hey, after all SBCL compiler is called Python 17:39:57 stassats: they'll probably ask you what sbcl is 17:40:03 They should have given that $1 million grant to pypy, not ipython. i think. 17:40:33 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:41:05 Nah, there are lots of falks on #python that are familiar with lisp 17:41:11 Indecipherable: they should have given it to sbcl 17:41:13 SBCL does wizardry and magic, that's what it does. 17:41:22 :) 17:41:31 Folks+ 17:41:52 Not being able to say 'lol' annoys me 17:41:58 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:42:33 i was just reading an article by Gabriel and others saying the CL standard was too complicated, and a free implementation was therefore unlikely 17:42:57 just as a note. we did some elevator simulations in CL and Matlab and my CL code was an order of magnitude faster than what Matlab produced. so it really depends. 17:42:58 How long ago was that? 17:43:18 Or are they referring to something specific by "free implementation"? 17:43:24 substitute: talking to me? 17:43:27 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 17:43:37 Sorry, I am. 17:43:49 I wish the CL standard was revised 17:44:08 substitute: "Expecting the Lisp community to provide COMMON LISP for little or no cost is not sensible; nor is it sensible to expect a software house to devote its resources to a project that does not justify its cost to that company with high profits. 17:44:14 madnificent: could you link the code ? -please, if possible- 17:44:15 Indecipherable: why? what do you want to change? 17:44:24 I want everything in packages 17:44:27 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 17:44:31 substitute: i think the meaning intended was approximately foss 17:44:32 pnpuff: can't sorry. (i don't think i still have it, but i also think i'm not allowed to share it) 17:44:48 (FYI, i never did it in matlab myself) 17:44:52 faheem: Was this in the 80's? 17:44:54 substitute: after all, gabriel's lucid tried to work with the fsf once, so they know about that stuff 17:45:07 substitute Not sure 17:45:16 substitute: the paper is A Critique of Common Lisp 17:45:22 Rodney A. Brooks and Richard P. Gabriel 17:45:31 substitute: the standard was in 1994, so i assume post that 17:45:53 madnificent: ok... 17:46:15 pnpuff: either case it was a markov simulation or something of the likes. a school project, anyways. 17:46:16 brazilianguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has joined #lisp 17:47:24 Did the new Scheme standard arrive? You know, the gigantic one and the small division of it. 17:47:37 pnpuff: it was a monte carlo simulation (sorry for the confusion) 17:48:06 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:38 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:48:48 -!- brazilianguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has quit [Client Quit] 17:49:12 brazilianguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has joined #lisp 17:49:23 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:49:32 substitute: looks like this came in 1984 17:49:36 -!- brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:45 Brian144 [~Brian144@64-184-245-247.mammothnetworks.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:57 substitute: sorry. i meant - looks like that paper came out in 1984 17:50:18 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=802016&dl=ACM&coll=DL&CFID=161274697&CFTOKEN=24486738 17:50:33 free copies available on the net of course 17:51:37 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:57 Bike [~Glossina@75-164-165-162.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:42 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:44 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:29 pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:53 -!- pjb is now known as Guest49446 17:54:58 I'm a lisp newbie, just working through examples from Conrad Barski's "Land of Lisp". I was hoping to get some pointers on using the "directory" function. The online common lisp spec mentions it but has no examples 17:56:30 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-220-191-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:56:40 (directory "/*.*") 17:57:08 when I do (directory "/some path/sub path/*.*) I get a list with file name in double quotes, each proceeded by #P, I was wondering if @P mean these were a special type of strings somehow 17:57:12 -!- Guest49446 is now known as pjb` 17:57:21 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 17:57:25 no, it means it's a pathname 17:57:55 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@122.167.73.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:58:12 Brian144: PCL covers it in Ch 15 17:58:13 Brian144: CL has a specific data type for pathnames. 17:58:36 Brian144: doesn't Conrad? 17:58:39 Brian144: this is a mismatch with posix systems, where pathnames are just sequences of non null OCTETS. 17:58:55 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:59:30 But it has the advantage of being able to work portably with "pathnames" on non-posix systems :-) 17:59:45 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:48 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 18:00:12 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:00:14 -!- zero_coder [~chatzilla@106.67.154.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:00:29 in theory... 18:00:42 Yes :-) 18:00:52 -!- Longlius [~quassel@68.170.235.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:59 Well, if you use logical pathnames :-) 18:01:15 Pathname makes sense. I'm thinking then I might use subseq to separate out filenames from path names unless the #P designator means there are already some tool for doing that 18:01:38 -!- brazilianguy is now known as brguy 18:01:38 clhs namestring 18:01:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 18:01:39 No, you'd use functions such as pathname-name, pathname-directory etc. 18:02:25 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:03:17 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:30 haheem, PCL = "Practical Common Lisp"? 18:03:37 it is 18:03:46 among other things 18:03:57 -!- borodust [pauk@stdev.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:04:38 hmms ECL gives error after installing quicklisp, anyone have this setup? (error: "Error while trying to load definition for system sockets from pathname") 18:04:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:09:38 Brian144: #P"/foo/bar" is the same as writing (pathname "/foo/bar"). 18:10:03 Brian144: you could call it a short form. 18:10:05 not really, it's the same as #.(parse-namestring "/foo/bar") 18:10:40 stassats: yes, but then he'd be wondering what #. means :) though it's probably parse-namestring, not pathname, indeed. 18:11:13 #P"/foo/bar" is the same as writing (pathname "/foo/bar") at read time! 18:11:22 faheem I've found chapter in Practical Common Lisp. Conrad covers file IO but I was thinking of doing some set operations on lists of file names, which he does not cover 18:11:40 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-164-165-162.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:11:42 madnificent: we can't scarifies correctness just to avoid confusing somebody, can we? 18:11:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:12:31 stassats: sure we can scarifie correctness! though i should probably have said "roughly the same as" instead of "the same as". 18:12:41 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:13:00 Brian144: hope you find PCL useful. it's a good book 18:13:03 Speaking of file IO: 18:13:33 Brian144: I've not looked closely at LOL. How does it compare? 18:13:38 I know that new methods can be written for print-object, 18:13:50 But can you do the same for reading? 18:14:00 reader-macros 18:14:01 Sure. Reader macros. 18:14:37 substitute: directory! 18:14:41 Marvelous. 18:15:03 sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:15:09 faheem, I found LOL *approachable*. I'm hoping that after working through it I'll be able to profitably study other texts as well 18:15:18 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:34 I thought it was not possible, outside of writing some ungeneric file-reading function. 18:15:47 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:53 does anyone here use maxima? 18:16:05 why do you ask? 18:16:10 substitute: the lisp reader can read natively only symbols, integers and floating point numbers. All the rest is reader macros. 18:16:21 substitute: incidentally, #P is a reader macro. as in #P"/foo/bar" 18:16:25 and rational numbers! 18:16:28 madnificent , #P = pathname....... good to know, thanks 18:16:33 right and ratios. 18:16:47 well, all numbers except for complex 18:16:49 stassats: i was wondering how usable it was for symbolic work. 18:17:38 Brian144: i see. i find the best thing is just to write some code. rewriting code you have already written is a reasonable way to go. that way you have something to compare it with 18:18:15 faheem, yes, that makes a lot of sense 18:18:20 faheem: I find your lack of faith disturbing 18:18:40 agumonke1 [~agu@243.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:42 pjb: huh? 18:19:06 Just use it! it's written in lisp = it's good! 18:19:16 that might be a darth vader quote... 18:19:23 pjb: ok 18:19:25 and if not, they you can easily patch it. 18:19:25 substitute: try... file / or ls -F / :) 18:19:35 pjb: easily? 18:19:37 Of course, and if I was Darth Vador, You'd be choking right now 18:19:52 pjb: that's so friendly 18:19:58 :-) 18:20:45 -!- agumonkey [~agu@243.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:21:12 substitute: as big classification in linux there are only files or processes. 18:21:47 Gnu/linux , sorry!! 18:21:57 what are you babbling about again? 18:22:37 silly boy..you're talking to me? 18:22:53 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:06 faheem: there's an "embeddable-maxima" project you might be interested in. 18:23:57 Bike_: embeddable in a cl program? 18:24:04 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 18:24:10 well, maxima is already a cl program 18:24:23 stassats: good point. strike that last statement 18:24:33 usable more like a library, yes 18:25:42 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:25:59 -!- BountyX [~andrew@d118-75-192-10.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:26:08 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 18:26:14 Bike_: ok 18:27:45 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:28:36 faheem: notice that there is aslo Axiom (Computer Algebra System). 18:29:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:29:54 -!- Brian144 [~Brian144@64-184-245-247.mammothnetworks.com] has quit [Quit: irc2go] 18:30:17 pnpuff: that is true 18:30:24 also written in CL i think 18:30:27 Brian144 [40b8f5f7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.184.245.247] has joined #lisp 18:30:40 -!- brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:31:29 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:31:31 -!- substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:32:25 faheem: maxima is quite usable. 18:32:52 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:52 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 i use it every now and then and it just works 18:33:28 prxq: good to know. thanks 18:34:10 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:03 ISF [~ivan@189.61.220.247] has joined #lisp 18:36:39 brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has joined #lisp 18:36:46 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:58 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:05 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:40:54 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 18:42:05 -!- chenbing [~user@223.167.179.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:43:07 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 18:43:19 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.90] has joined #lisp 18:44:33 -!- ryankarason [~karason@stallman.cse.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:44:43 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.180] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 18:45:25 -!- jeti` [~user@p548EAC26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:46 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 18:48:49 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:49:29 snearch [~snearch@f053002024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:52 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.197.223] has joined #lisp 18:50:15 -!- Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:07 -!- sirdancealot1 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:57:33 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:01:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-226-214.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:02:36 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:55 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:02 -!- brguy [~idonteven@200.233.62.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:46 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:10:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:38 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: `You got to stem the evil tide, and keep it all on the inside.'] 19:11:16 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 19:14:37 Is it possible for format a new line (~%) every nth (say, fifth) item in an iteration (~{~})? 19:14:57 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:00 LiamH: "~{~5@{~a~}~%~}" 19:17:02 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:42 substitute [~substitut@97-113-98-140.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:52 stassats: Neat, thanks! I was just trying to figure out the combination of modifier symbols that would work. 19:20:37 babel doesn't seem to have any functions for unicode normalization; anyone know of an implementation that does this? 19:20:56 minion: cl-unicode? 19:20:57 cl-unicode: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/cl-unicode 19:21:15 no, that's not it 19:21:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:21:41 jasom: try cl-icu 19:22:00 fe[nl]ix: just a ffi for ICU? 19:22:07 indeed 19:22:15 Caveat Emptor: This was never put into production, has not been maintained in the past year and is limited to ICU 2.6 -Marco Baringer 19:22:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:23:28 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:39 jasom: good luck 19:24:07 IIRC cmucl has some normalization routines 19:24:11 maybe you can copy those 19:24:37 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:38 rtoym should know 19:25:03 a new library opportunity! 19:25:36 Yes, cmucl has unicode normalization routines. 19:25:47 no, please not, better add the code to cl-unicode 19:25:57 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:13 fe[nl]ix: why not? it won't overlap with anything 19:26:17 fe[nl]ix: cl-unicode is better than babel for this? It is (in some respects) a conversion. 19:26:17 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.180] has joined #lisp 19:26:21 if it will only provide normalization, that is 19:26:57 jasom: good point 19:27:38 rtoym: what does cmucl use normalization for? 19:28:13 stassats: Nothing, except that symbols are normalized before being interned. 19:28:31 nkfc ? 19:28:42 *rtoym* can't remember.... 19:28:53 nfkc, oops 19:29:30 I think it's nfc. 19:30:09 Yes, it's nfc. 19:30:13 Sorry for bothering about buildapp again, but here's my go at it: 19:30:24 git clone drakma 19:30:30 cd drakma 19:30:33 buildapp --load-path ./src --load-system drakma --output drakma --asdf-tree ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software 19:30:59 rtoym: so  is not equal to ff? 19:31:13 substitute: why don't you use drakma from quicklisp? 19:31:43 Exercise in compiling a program I know is set up correctly 19:31:50 So I can figure out how to compile my project. 19:32:21 substitute: and the problem is? 19:32:39 jasom: Not equal in what way? 19:33:09 Everything loads up nicely and an executable is generated, 19:33:23 ely [~ely@cable-85.28.78.194.coditel.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:25 rtoym: will intern to different symbols; if you use nfc, they are different 19:33:57 But when I try to run it, I get dropped to the REPL immediately, or it spits out a backtrace stating "don't know how to REQUIRE :SB-POSIX" 19:34:12 jasom: Right. They will be different symbols. 19:34:33 substitute: what do you expect to happen, really? 19:34:34 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:35 jasom: Would you expect them to be the same symbol? 19:35:03 Beats me. 19:35:06 substitute: you need to write a "main" program, too. otherwise, your executable generated with buildapp will start a repl for you 19:35:18 Hm. 19:35:21 substitute: you are not "dropped" there, it is "run" for you 19:35:23 rtoym: yes, since the ligature is a rich-text markup feature. In any event this is why there are many normalization forms; sometimes you want to preserve ligatures 19:35:34 Hm. 19:36:16 buildapp \ 19:36:16 --eval '(defun main (argv) (declare (ignore argv)) (write-line "Hello, world"))' \ 19:36:16 --entry main \ 19:36:16 --output hello-world 19:36:41 substitute: that is from the example. what's not clear about it? 19:36:44 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:36:45 That makes a functional hello-world 19:37:23 It seems my problems start when I try to add dependencies, even when I use a main function. 19:37:40 jasom: Ok. I don't remember why nfc was chosen. But at least cmucl provides all of the normalizations so you can create symbols as you want, roughly. 19:37:55 substitute: what problems? 19:38:04 ebobby [~fms@189.170.27.127] has joined #lisp 19:38:23 substitute: You write an .asd file for your project that has the necessary stuff in a :depends-on clause, then you pass asdf-path and load-system to buildapp 19:38:23 rtoym: oh, it implements all the normalizations? I might just steal that if it's written in non cmu-specific lisp 19:38:36 substitute: look at the documentation, please http://www.xach.com/lisp/buildapp/ 19:38:40 It doesn't enter the program proper, or it dies. 19:38:55 xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:12 jasom: Yes, nfc, nfd, nfkc, nfkd. But I'm pretty sure it's cmucl specific since it needs access to the normailzation tables. 19:39:55 substitute: what in the documentation is not clear? what exactly does not work? paste your code and the full error messages to paste.lisp.org. but read the documentation first and understand it. if the documentation is unclear, ask questions. 19:41:16 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:17 -!- xaxisx_ is now known as xaxisx 19:41:28 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.90] has joined #lisp 19:41:45 jasom: I guess you need the combining class, and pairwise composition tables. So normalization code is fairly portable if you have those tables. 19:44:55 I'll take some clearer notes and come back in a bit. 19:46:50 -!- ely [~ely@cable-85.28.78.194.coditel.net] has quit [] 19:47:50 ely [~ely@cable-85.28.78.194.coditel.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:50:08 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:50:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-148.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:54:11 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:54:32 xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:08 -!- ely [~ely@cable-85.28.78.194.coditel.net] has quit [] 19:57:20 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:59:11 xaxisx [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:12 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:20 -!- xaxisx_ [~xaxisx@206-248-177-161.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:57 Longlius [~quassel@68.170.235.238] has joined #lisp 20:00:31 M-. on a package name doesn't seem to work anymore, on sbcl. 20:01:16 works on a package object, though 20:01:49 ha, after that it works on just a symbol too 20:01:55 but not before you M-. on the object 20:03:13 asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-108-48-89-59.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:30 oh my, that's my bug 20:03:37 -!- asciilifeform is now known as Guest54088 20:03:48 it doesn't work on an not-intended symbol 20:05:04 hm, or maybe not my after all 20:06:17 -!- confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:07:32 wheelsucker [~user@168.114.240.151] has joined #lisp 20:09:20 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.12.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:09:39 one solution would be, when no interned symbols found, search for packages and then do find-source-location on the resulting object 20:12:33 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:40 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-220-191-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:13:00 or on an unintended symbol 20:13:24 what's an unintended symbol? 20:13:32 #:foo 20:13:41 uninterned? 20:13:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:52 nope, i intended #:foo. 20:14:04 tcr: well, yes 20:14:18 *stassats* blames ispell 20:14:57 *pjb* blames stassats for using ispell. 20:15:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-190-129.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16:07 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 20:16:43 Ralt [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:18:01 DAILOS [~DAILOS@41.227.139.204] has joined #lisp 20:18:45 -!- DAILOS [~DAILOS@41.227.139.204] has quit [] 20:18:49 confab [~confab@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:44 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:21:41 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 20:22:40 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:42 tcr: alright, fixed 20:22:49 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 20:23:08 are there any other things, besides packages, which can have the same property? 20:23:36 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:56 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 20:23:59 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-153.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: panic] 20:25:41 liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 20:26:28 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:56 liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 20:27:38 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:55 liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 20:28:00 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:20 (the property being not named by a symbol, but by a string) 20:32:19 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:34:11 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:34:35 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:34:36 stassats: systems 20:34:49 do we find them? 20:35:11 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:28 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:35:30 not right now 20:35:56 there needs to be a mechanism for plugging thing finders 20:37:15 well, yeah. I had plans to come up with extensible first-class source locations for sbcl at some point. 20:37:42 i rather meant for swank 20:38:13 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-213-12-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Quit: ] 20:38:24 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:38:38 teclo, standing in the way of CL progress since 20xx 20:39:49 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:40:19 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 20:40:33 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 20:42:04 stassats: how so? 20:42:27 technically 2009 20:42:57 oh, tcr works there I assume. 20:43:12 right, and he stopped contributing to slime and sbcl 20:44:35 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:45:34 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.180] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 20:46:46 let's think of it as "paused in his public contributions" 20:47:51 chameco [~samuel@135.sub-70-192-14.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:04 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 20:53:45 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:14 see, SLIME should have been GPL'ed. 20:56:22 wat? 20:56:31 -!- chameco [~samuel@135.sub-70-192-14.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58:10 the elisp parts are under GPL 20:59:09 but, that still doesn't make that remark make any more sense 21:00:20 -!- snearch [~snearch@f053002024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:02:27 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:36 well assuming he is making private contributions 21:02:50 (to SLIME) 21:02:59 how would GPL change that? 21:03:01 felideon: as long as he doesn't distribute the private contributions the GPL wouldn't affect things 21:03:18 true :) 21:03:48 so GPL solves nothing. 21:05:46 FWIW. If we had the time for such things, we wouldn't keep it private. 21:10:06 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:12 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 21:10:32 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.115.52.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:10:36 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:12:18 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:13 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:15:18 biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-238-131.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:55 brguy [~idonteven@189-69-121-202.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:17:21 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:10 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 21:19:13 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.120.12.21] has joined #lisp 21:20:23 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-190-129.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:25 alexshendi 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