00:00:34 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 00:01:48 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:34 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:07 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:05:06 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-166-135.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:05:27 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.213.77] has joined #lisp 00:05:55 k0001_ [~k0001@host245.186-125-151.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:08:07 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host108.186-125-119.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:10:08 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:58 Dragonling [~Drak0n41K@94.137.36.58] has joined #lisp 00:12:58 sigjuice:unfortunately, I use cl:directory for ls, and its behavior is thus implementation dependant. Try: (ls "*.*") or (ls :l "*.*") 00:13:13 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:20 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:13:46 -!- Drak0n41K [~Drak0n41K@94.137.54.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:57 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 00:20:19 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:21:27 pjb: no worries. thanks! 00:25:02 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:25:07 -!- hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:10 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:51 hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:27:50 -!- hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:59 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:28:58 hiro3w [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:31:03 -!- sigjuice_ [3fe94cfe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.233.76.254] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:32:25 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:35:01 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host245.186-125-151.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:38:16 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:43 k0001 [~k0001@host245.186-125-151.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:42:10 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:57 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:31 ezakimak [~nick@69.9.62.212] has joined #lisp 00:46:33 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:47:11 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:48:16 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:51 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:50:32 sigjuice_ [3fe94cfe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.233.76.254] has joined #lisp 00:51:11 Is the use of let* considered functional style? 00:51:11 sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.237.124] has joined #lisp 00:51:35 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 00:56:44 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 00:57:50 that depends, or yes/no, or Mu... so the question is "what do you consider 'functional style', in Common Lisp specifically. 00:58:22 ?'. 00:58:23 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:58:32 s/'/" 00:59:05 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 00:59:06 drewc: to be honest, I am not too sure. Functional style => no side effects? 01:00:10 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 01:00:21 not much point in conforming to a style you can't recognize or explain the purpose of, is there? 01:01:35 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@axf29.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: dobranoc/good night] 01:02:04 I suggest reading up on the subject matter. 01:02:22 heh ... for example : https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/smug.org#syntax--let-and-the-identity-monad 01:02:55 you are right. It is all rather vague in my mind. It feels comfortable to know that a piece of code has zero or limited side effects. 01:03:50 sometimes I get carried away and my let* bindings feel like a mini program 01:04:10 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:06:23 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:05 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/do_Notation <--- or "Common Lisp is not a functional language, though it does have a number of functional features", it also has a number of opposites. 01:07:12 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:07:21 and for that matter : http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Do_notation_considered_harmful ;) 01:08:48 drewc: thanks. will check those out. 01:08:55 -!- hydandata [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:10:42 -!- sigjuice_ [3fe94cfe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.233.76.254] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:11:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.179.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:12:10 and for that matter, LET* is one of the 'opposites', and something similar is needed in 'functional langauges' because side effects are sort of what programs _do_ 01:12:50 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:13 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:38 *drewc* grumbles about quantum physics and entanglement, and goes back to lisping. 01:14:41 sigjuice: that does happen sometimes (the program feeling). sometimes it can be a reason to reconsider how you're organizing your program, sometimes it's just convenient, it depends 01:15:50 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host245.186-125-151.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:17:45 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:40 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:24:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:24:49 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:26:17 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A49B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:54 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A653.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:54 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 01:33:45 -!- phaer [~user@chello080108051063.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:02 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:56 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 01:39:16 -!- agumonkey [~agu@243.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:40:26 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:49 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-153.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 01:42:58 malpas [~al@3.Red-88-26-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:35 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.97] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 01:45:00 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 01:48:55 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:48 if I were to purchase _one_ lisp book what would it be? 01:50:41 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 01:51:04 qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 01:51:11 -!- sweet_kid [having@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:51:29 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:52:14 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:17 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:22 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 01:53:57 sweet_kid [having@2a01:4f8:131:13c1:1::1] has joined #lisp 01:54:20 -!- majuscule [~dylan@dylansserver.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:55:28 majuscule [~dylan@dylansserver.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:20 spiderweb: I give up ... what is the answer?! 02:00:37 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:05 drewc: I'm asking you guys. 02:03:19 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:05 well I do not know what you want to purchase! (or: why do you want a lisp book, what for, who/when/how etc) 02:05:41 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:06:16 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:32 hm.. maybe I should ask if a particular book is worth buying or not. 02:06:37 and of course, do you already own book on lisp, are you referring to Common Lisp in particular, what is your experience with lisp and programming in general .. etc etc 02:07:39 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-121-220-67-226.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:07:40 drewc: yeah, sorry. AI would be nice. all related to lisp/scheme. I own sicp. godel escher bach. I don't need an introduction to lisp or anything like that. 02:08:01 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:08:12 PAIP? 02:08:14 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:08:21 though that AI is quite vintage. 02:08:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:09:07 yup, PAIP is a good one, though has little to do with modern AI... it has everything to do with Common Lisp :) 02:09:21 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:23 what about modern AI? 02:09:27 that I could apply to lisp. 02:11:02 AI's a big field, with lots of very different strategies. So one book would just be a wide intro sort of thing. 02:11:03 spiderweb: and of course, if you want a book on scheme in particular, #scheme is thataway -->, and they will likely know a wee bit more about scheme itself. 02:11:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:11:13 ok 02:11:24 so, you want a book an AI, that has what to do with lisp in particular? 02:11:25 AIMA, about more modern AI, is by the author of PAIP and is probably good, but I haven't read it. 02:12:06 drewc: well, I guess I'm looking for an AI book that I can @ least apply to lisp. sorry I wasn't very clear. 02:12:09 :-) 02:12:10 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:11 -!- jungy [~smuxi@68.48.245.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:19 Bike: It is actually quite good, and probably what I was going to suggest for AI and lisp... but I only read it a while ago and do not own it 02:12:56 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:01 spiderweb: well, any AI book can be applied to lisp ... the two are not very related (anymore). 02:13:27 spiderweb: lisp is a general purpose programming language, you can write AI in it just like you could write AI in anything else. Lisp has a reputation as AI-like because it makes simple symbolic computation very easy, but that's a pretty dead form of AI nowadays. 02:13:44 interesting.. 02:13:48 spiderweb: so, I would suggest picking a book on AI that means something to you personally, and if you want, do the exercises in CL 02:13:58 ok, thanks! 02:15:00 (and PAIP will be the answer to your next question about lisp books and AI ... doesn't matter what the question is, PAIP is the answer :)) 02:16:24 ok 02:18:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:19:41 blaenk [~blaenk@unaffiliated/blaenkdenum] has joined #lisp 02:21:14 -!- blaenk [~blaenk@unaffiliated/blaenkdenum] has left #lisp 02:21:33 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:22:03 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A1B19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:22:52 ohh ... Winston and Horn ... that is about ai apps in lisp as well 02:25:50 brguy [~idonteven@189-69-112-53.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:28:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:28:19 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@61-91-20-179.static.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:32:50 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 02:32:54 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-121-220-67-226.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 02:34:00 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 02:39:13 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:40:31 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:43:13 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.213.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:08 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.213.77] has joined #lisp 02:49:37 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 02:56:10 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:00:49 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:04:22 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:05:05 cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:11:27 -!- Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:12:02 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-99-183.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:08 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:26 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:23 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:19:05 ,(type-of (values 1 2 3)) 03:19:21 clhs values 03:19:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_values.htm 03:22:29 type-of only receives the first value. 03:22:41 yes 03:22:48 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 03:23:16 -!- sw2wolf is now known as sw2wolf{away} 03:26:57 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:31:00 honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:25 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-55-131.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:31:45 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 03:32:51 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-125-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:34:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:37:16 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-111-108.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:09 -!- honkfestival [~honkfesti@198-84-183-94.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [] 03:43:49 -!- Artheist [~quassel@ARennes-656-1-262-209.w90-32.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:15 deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:25 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:04:06 -!- benny [~user@i577A2EB4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:10 benny [~user@i577A7487.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:11:14 Sikander [~user@54699806.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 04:15:47 -!- Sikander [~user@54699806.cm-12-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 04:16:53 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:27 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-121-220-67-226.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:22:04 -!- ezakimak [~nick@69.9.62.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:24:09 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:49 Guthur [~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:11 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-121-220-67-226.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 04:32:13 -!- deckeraa [~aaron@97-83-167-14.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:36:22 Bike: a couple bugs in your frobbed maybe-emit-unrolled-merge-sort. 04:36:47 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:37:20 pkhuong: where? 04:38:40 Bike: in the (<= length 1) case, you still have to evaluate all the arguments, and then return sequence. with-array-data really doesn't do what you think it does. It's probably simplest to take it out. 04:38:56 -!- pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:38:57 and I forgot that we can also specify an explicit NIL for :key. I'll fix that. 04:38:58 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 04:39:32 pkhuong: what's it do? the macro was pretty twisty to look at. 04:40:53 it find the underlying (simple-array * 1), and offsets the bounds to correspond to indices for the initial potentially displaced, complex, etc. array. 04:41:47 I'm really a fan of just emitting ((lambda (...) ...) arguments...) to make it obvious that evaluation order is preserved. 04:42:24 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:42:28 yeah, that approach seems better to me too, but for my first attempt i didn't want to start out doing much more than compiler macros do. 04:42:59 a compiler macro can expand into that code. 04:43:41 yeah. i just haven't done that yet. 04:50:41 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:19 -!- sw2wolf{away} is now known as sw2wolf 05:15:47 Bacteria [~Bacteria@CPE-121-220-67-226.lnse2.win.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:18:56 -!- kliph 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[~user@eth2845.sa.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:32 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:36:18 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:37:32 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:37:55 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:37:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:37:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:42:43 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 07:44:45 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@220.166.237.124] has left #lisp 07:47:45 i've got a c function (from a library which takes a double arg). Now this is exposed via cffi as a float arg. When i try to pass it an int, it rejects it. 07:47:48 i 07:48:22 i'm wondering the correct way to handle this. it seems cffi has an automatic translation mechanism 07:48:29 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Foreign-Type-Translators.html 07:48:39 is this the correct way to approach this? 07:49:41 in general ints can be coerced to floating point types with no errors, so this seems like a safe thing to set up in general, though i'm suprised it doesn't work automatically 07:53:10 when you declare your function as accepting a float, you can't pass it an integer 07:53:18 you have to coerce it yourself 07:54:16 in general ints can be coerced to floating point types with no errors <-- not without losing acccuracy, surely 07:55:09 Bike: converting ints to floats loses accuracy? how so? 07:55:26 stassats`: well, that's unwelcome news. i can't tell cffi to do it, then? 07:55:27 floats has less bits 07:55:37 stassats`: oh 07:55:51 ok, tehn 07:55:52 you could probably define a macro to handle things though, if you want 07:56:06 Bike: the coercion? 07:56:39 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:44 yeah. define-coercing-fun or something cleverer 07:56:51 Bike: ok 07:57:15 Bike: but it will still be a manual coercion for that function only? 07:58:20 borodust [pauk@stdev.org] has joined #lisp 07:58:52 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 07:59:20 well, you can setup the translation, like in the link you provided 07:59:44 stassats`: ok 08:02:17 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.216.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:02:42 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 08:07:07 and you've been talking about precision loss, but overflow will cause actual errors 08:08:05 stassats`: you mean if the integer is too large? 08:08:10 yes 08:08:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:08:17 stassats`: hmm 08:08:38 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:56 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:40 Longlius [~quassel@68.170.235.238] has joined #lisp 08:11:14 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:17:08 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:31:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:32:47 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 08:34:04 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host178.190-229-208.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:35:07 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:35:10 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:40:14 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:22 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 08:44:21 Odyessus [~odyessus@078132033226.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 08:47:10 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:09 stassats`: i guess i'll do explicit coercion for now. i don't completely understand the cffi automatic conversions, but it might not be the right thing to do 08:50:33 to convert an int vector to a float vector is the following reasonable? 08:50:36 (loop for x across *v* for y = (coerce x 'double-float) collect y) 08:51:13 tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:16 (loop for x across *v* collect (coerce x 'double-float)) 08:52:38 stassats`: thanks 08:52:46 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.182] has joined #lisp 08:53:33 and, that's converting to a list 08:54:20 stassats`: oh, right. but that is ok here 08:54:23 (map-into (make-array (length *v*) :element-type 'double-float) (lambda (x) (coerce x 'double-float)) *v*) 08:54:58 stassats`: is the int -> float operation cheap? 08:56:07 compared to what? 08:56:10 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 08:58:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: but] 09:01:03 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:51 -!- piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:09:54 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:10:50 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-71-228.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:11:53 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Quit: (* (! t) nil)] 09:13:32 Ralt_ [~ralt@215.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:53 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:18:55 stassats`: addition? 09:19:10 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 09:20:02 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 09:20:04 it's more expensive, obviously 09:20:56 greetings folks ... and merry Xmas! 09:21:54 stassats`: ok 09:26:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:32:15 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@215.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:53 Ralt_ [~ralt@215.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:11 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@215.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-62.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:51 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@078132033226.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:42:44 pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:51 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:46:17 Guest9041 [~jimmy@218.59.111.165] has joined #lisp 09:49:45 faheem: your loo doesn't convert a vector to a vector. Use MAP for that: (map 'vector (lambda (x) (coerce x 'single-float)) #(1 2 3 4)) --> #(1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0) 09:49:56 s/loo/loop/ 09:50:04 (*^.^*) 09:51:51 or (map '(vector single-float) (lambda (x) (coerce x 'single-float)) #(1 2 3 4)) if you want a specialized array. 09:54:42 tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:59:39 Ralt_ [~ralt@215.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:57 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:00:45 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:52 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:04:21 Marry Hackmas :) 10:06:34 pjb: right. in this case i think it doesn't matter that it is a list though 10:07:54 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:24 bitonic [~user@ppp-111-108.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 10:08:48 LAMMJohnson [~john@5adb68e5.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:11:48 the one i showed is most probably going to be more efficient 10:13:28 stassats`: (map-into (make-array (length *v*) :element-type 'double-float) (lambda (x) (coerce x 'double-float)) *v*) ? 10:13:32 yes 10:13:40 stassats`: ok, thanks 10:13:43 with a proper declaration for *v* 10:13:48 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:51 stassats`: of course 10:16:14 stassats`: I don't see where map could lose time or memory. 10:17:04 to the asymptote at least :-) 10:17:05 well, it doesn't seem to share your outlook, and does lose both 10:17:14 on, say, SBCL 10:17:29 not my reference implementation :-) 10:19:01 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.182] has joined #lisp 10:19:06 on clisp it's marginally faster too 10:19:51 Only O(1) slower, to convert the type into the make-array call. 10:21:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:24:20 and faster on CCL 10:25:05 so, it is indeed more efficient on popular implementations 10:25:12 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:26:00 It would probably be worth a compiler-macro. 10:26:16 an explicit loop is the fastest, of course 10:26:21 Because a SSC should make no difference between your form and mine. 10:26:41 i don't write code for SSC 10:28:16 Zetetic [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 10:30:40 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 10:30:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:30:59 what is a SSC? 10:31:12 a sufficiently smart compiler 10:31:21 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:21 stassats`: ah. thanks 10:42:47 turns out, intel's SSE crc32 is faster than my slice-by-8 crc32 implementation more than 5 times, which is was more than 3 times faster than ironclad's implementation 10:42:51 all on SBCL 10:43:05 i reckon that slice-by-8 can be faster, SBCL just generates not the most optimal code 10:45:23 for some reason effective addressing into a two-dimensional array is faster than when i give it direct offsets to the sub-arrays 10:48:25 stassats`: could you post a link to see the code of your slice-by-8 crc32 `implementation'? 10:48:49 (If is possible) 10:49:14 nope, it's not finished code 10:49:18 only for benchmarks 10:50:17 ok... 11:00:02 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:01:15 Odyessus [~odyessus@078132114065.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 11:02:03 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:05:37 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 11:07:49 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:08:54 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.1] has joined #lisp 11:11:00 -!- piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:12:31 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:44 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@078132114065.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:15:50 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 11:18:58 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:27:31 -!- Borbus_ is now known as Borbus 11:29:54 tcr1 [~tcr@88-134-109-42-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:30:42 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:34:00 doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:38:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.91.1] 11:42:04 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:25 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:54 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.204] has joined #lisp 11:44:44 agumonkey [~agu@243.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:23 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@215.60.8.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:12 stassats`: Hi Stas. Are you there? 11:52:21 seems like 11:56:03 Do you ever sleep? 12:06:07 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:07:29 xmj: finite fields are more interesting than bed. 12:09:27 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.197.223] has joined #lisp 12:10:04 alvis``` [~user@tx-184-6-181-213.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:21 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 12:12:01 -!- alvis`` [~user@tx-184-6-181-213.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:06 stassats`: I want to port named-readtables to git, pick up the patches and make a new release. What's the preferred platform to run Lisp projects on nowadays? 12:12:41 I prefer gitorious.org 12:12:43 tcr: github seems popular 12:12:45 1- .org , not .com 12:12:48 2- fails less. 12:12:55 (than github). 12:13:23 cl.net for docs and releases + github git seems like a popular choice 12:13:45 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 12:14:23 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:48 mizlev [~mzl@183.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:09 Ok thanks. Has a preferred documentation preparation system become popular? Way back when drewc was working on one. 12:16:26 I prefer my fork of lispdoc. 12:16:46 i don't write documentation, so i don't really follow the developments 12:19:12 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-mdohkwuqeeivafaz] has joined #lisp 12:19:12 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-mdohkwuqeeivafaz] has quit [Changing host] 12:19:12 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:19:45 pjb: I used to use a hacked version of edi's documentation-template that would actually generate pretty much 100% of the documentation from information that resided in the image 12:20:03 That's what lispdoc does. 12:20:15 It documents loaded packages. 12:20:35 There's one problem with that: it doesn't document #+ variants. 12:21:41 I used the docstring of the packet to include introductionary sections that come before the specification of the API 12:21:53 package. 12:22:08 katwhisky [~katwhisky@cpe-174-096-102-008.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:27 heh, yeah, in my daily life it's all packets these days :-) 12:22:31 On the other hand, #+/#- should be frowned upon just like #ifdef/#ifndef. 12:23:18 -!- xmj [~xmj@copyfree/advocate/xmj] has left #lisp 12:24:12 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:22 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 12:28:29 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:38 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:14 i notice (make-array 5 :element-type 'string) produces 0's though i would have expected empty string, or some such 12:29:29 empty strings 12:29:42 it's the same as (make-array 5 :element-type t), i.e. (make-array 5) 12:30:28 faheem: it's implementation dependant. See upgraded-array-element-type 12:30:30 stassats`: oh. i thought it would be a different construct 12:30:40 pjb : ok 12:30:41 faheem: on your implementation, (upgraded-array-element-type 'string) => T 12:30:47 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:55 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:31:00 on all implementations 12:31:14 (upgraded-array-element-type '(string 4)) could be different. 12:31:36 And some implementation could implement such an array as a char** 12:31:47 pjb: isn't worth it 12:31:52 agreed. 12:32:00 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:13 unless the purpose was good integration with C. 12:32:22 ok, i thought they would size the space used according to the type 12:32:32 if you want optimizations, (make-array (* 4 length) :element-type 'character) 12:32:47 faheem: it would, though it doesn't make sense to do so for strings 12:32:51 faheem: the point is that most lisp objects are implemented as references, so the same size as a pointer. 12:33:07 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 12:33:11 stassats`: i want strings for each entry. so i don't think char would work for me 12:33:21 pjb: oh, i see 12:33:39 well, you would just have to use them with offsets 12:33:40 faheem: you should never give :element-type without :initial-contents or :initial-value. 12:33:51 -!- katwhisky [~katwhisky@cpe-174-096-102-008.carolina.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 12:33:52 strings are implemented as an array of chars it seems, though i don't know if that is standard specified 12:34:07 it is. 12:34:14 pjb: why is that? that's perfectly valid if you don't read the values 12:34:17 pjb: ok 12:34:25 pjb: why not? 12:34:42 Because reading it is not conforming. (make-array 5 :element-type 'string :initial-element "") 12:35:06 and in the REPL, you're reading it. 12:35:14 Hence you see the 0s. 12:35:18 "should never" is a bad advice 12:35:45 should justify it with ten pages in 3 copies. 12:36:10 just not saying it would be enough 12:36:50 besides, nothing's going to happen in reality even if you read it 12:37:21 In the case of a upgraded to T, no. But if the upgraded is not T, you can obtain unsafe code. 12:37:37 With consequences as dire as if you programmed in C. 12:37:49 not in reality 12:37:53 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:39:01 do you never cons? because the standard doesn't specify how to deallocate memory 12:39:25 even if the vector contains pointers, the pointers have to point to allocated memory i assume 12:39:38 so isn't the memory allocated different for strings than integers? 12:40:07 you can have specialized arrays for various types 12:40:14 commonly, numbers and characters 12:40:56 stassats`: mm. ok. but (make-array 5 :element-type 'string) has entries which are reported as bits, which is a little puzzling, though i can assign string to the elements 12:41:28 which makes me wonder how the implementation is managing things 12:41:30 sbcl zero-fills all memory pages, so 0 is a natural choice 12:41:44 stassats`: oh. 12:42:31 stassats`: does one specialize as you did above? 12:42:48 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:42:49 i.e. (make-array (* 4 length) :element-type 'character) 12:42:56 yes 12:43:02 stassats`: ok 12:43:11 the same as 'string, just string is not specialized 12:43:20 stassats`: ok 12:43:29 clhs u-a-e-t 12:43:29 upgraded-array-element-type: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upgr_1.htm 12:43:46 stassats`: yes, i was looking at that. but don't understand it 12:43:59 i'll see if PCL discusses it 12:44:05 i doubt that 12:44:28 well, if you're not into optimizations, you shouldn't worry about it 12:44:31 not in the index 12:44:54 stassats`: i often need things to run fast. but no point obsessing about it 12:45:01 i was just wondering about the implementation 12:45:10 -!- PCChris_ [~Chris@cpe-65-31-47-32.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:45:16 upgraded-array-element-type is just a way for you to query how implementation will decide to store the elements 12:45:40 stassats`: ah. and example usage? 12:46:23 (upgraded-array-element-type 'string) 12:46:30 stassats`: ok thanks 12:46:31 (upgraded-array-element-type '(unsigned-byte 2)) 12:46:51 or (upgraded-array-element-type '(unsigned-byte 10)) should be more interesting 12:47:28 t, unsigned byte 10 and 15 respectively on sbcl 12:47:34 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-26-46.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:47:41 sorry, second is 2 12:47:57 to t, 2 and 15 12:48:06 to -> so 12:48:21 got to run. thanks everyone for the help 12:48:48 -!- caemir [~caemir@unaffiliated/caemir] has left #lisp 12:49:07 faheem: the point is that the initial elements if you don't specify them could be not valid pointers. even if the vector contains pointers, the pointers have to point to allocated memory i assume 12:51:52 There was a fatal error when trying to quickload cl-interpol: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134268 Is this something worth investigating? 12:52:33 try with (ql:quickload :cl-interpol :verbose t) 12:52:35 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.204] has joined #lisp 12:52:45 or just (asdf:load-system :cl-interpol) 12:53:16 2010-10-06 seems a tad old 12:55:32 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:57:12 -!- alvis``` [~user@tx-184-6-181-213.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57:12 Let's say I'd like to include a repository of named-readtables that depend on other projects, like e.g. cl-interpol. Is there a suitable way of arrangement nowadays with asdf? 12:57:47 add^_ [~add^_@78-70-121-101-no170.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:03 :depends-on 12:58:17 Well I do not want to make those things be a hard dependency 12:58:18 tcr: as before, just depends-on 12:58:34 ok 12:58:44 no, asdf can't do weak dependencies reliable (or at all anymore) 12:58:58 Then they're not dependencies: if the package is available when you load, ok, if not, not. 12:59:19 What would it mean to have a weak dependency anyways? 13:00:05 Well I was thinking on the lines of something like eval-after-load 13:04:18 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.208.18] has joined #lisp 13:12:54 -!- add^_ [~add^_@78-70-121-101-no170.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:13:13 add^_ [~add^_@78-70-121-101-no170.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:38 killerboy [~mateusz@cdd65.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:13:38 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:56 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:29 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:35 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@5adb68e5.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:37:43 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:49 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:49 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 13:40:42 -!- Guest9041 [~jimmy@218.59.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:42:37 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has joined #lisp 13:46:47 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:47:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:47:13 stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has joined #lisp 13:47:31 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:10 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.252.174] has joined #lisp 13:48:40 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:49:38 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has joined #lisp 13:53:00 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:53:24 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has joined #lisp 13:56:05 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:53 -!- malpas [~al@3.Red-88-26-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 13:57:14 is there a format directive that auto-increments, such as to do "~{~N~a~%~}" so that ~N is the position in the list ~a ? 13:58:32 so it could print '(a b c) as 1 a \n 2 b \n 3 c \n 14:09:19 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:29 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 14:18:30 urandom__ [~user@p548A394B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:12 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:23:02 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:23:11 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:19 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.91] has joined #lisp 14:29:46 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.198.172] has joined #lisp 14:30:43 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:34:11 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:34:30 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-144-148.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:59 minion memo for nydel: ~/ 14:36:09 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Quit: Killed by a system shock.] 14:38:18 minion: memo for nydel: ~/ as in: (defvar *fmt-counter* 0) (defun fmt-incf (out arg colon at) (princ (incf *fmt-counter*) out)) (let ((*fmt-counter* 0)) (format nil "~{~/fmt-incf/) ~:*~A~^; ~}" '(a b c))) --> "1) a; 2) b; 3) c" 14:38:18 Remembered. 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malpas [~al@122.Red-79-144-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 20:27:10 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:29:27 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.52.7] has joined #lisp 20:30:02 Merry xmas 20:32:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:33:55 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:04 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:34:37 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:50 has anyone tried using ECL to compile ARM binaries? 20:35:07 ie. compiling Lisp code on an x86 host to ARM binaries 20:35:34 cross compiling is the term, I think, and no I didn't try 20:35:38 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:02 cross-compiling is the term, but it'd suggest compiling ARM ECL itself if I just said "crosscompile with ECL" 20:36:09 which is not my goal 20:36:18 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:36:39 yeah IIUC you want to cross compile your application using ECL 20:36:54 like save an ARM image on a x86 host 20:37:26 right 20:37:39 can you not just compile to C and then set your c compiler to target ARM? 20:37:52 you need an arm toolchain... maybe 20:38:28 yeah, I was just asking to see if anybody has done that previously, because I remember from my short dabbling with ECL that its interaction with the C toolchain was somewhat obscure and not entirely obvious 20:38:31 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:33 well, you'd need to compile ecl for ARM first anyhow 20:38:33 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:40 stassats`: whyso? 20:38:40 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:38:51 oh, you'd need ecl.so, wouldn't you 20:38:56 it generates C code, which I should be able to compile 20:38:59 unless you're not planning on running them 20:39:00 oh, do I need ecl.so? 20:39:10 so yeah, I was right to ask 20:40:34 I'd actually be happy to use any other way to compile CL to reasonably compact ARM binaries 20:40:46 they need to interact with the native .sos, though 20:40:53 so a working FFI is a must 20:41:35 normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-69-151-246-20.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 but my googling doesn't suggest that it'd be possible to have x64 CLISP for instance dump an ARM executable image 20:43:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-136.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:03 oh, ccl doesn't have 64 bit arm yet, huh 20:44:42 there's no 64-bit arm processors yet 20:44:51 hmm, I haven't thought about CCL 20:45:04 oh. silly me. 20:45:37 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:45:48 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 20:46:16 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 20:46:32 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/CrossCompiling <-- heh, now I need to decipher what it's trying to tell me 20:46:49 mathrick: why do you need to cross compile? 20:46:50 why do you need to cross-compile? 20:47:01 mathrick: can't you just use qemu to emulate your target and compile on that? 20:47:06 stassats`: *5* 20:47:16 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:47:20 H4ns, stassats`: trying to build binaries for my pocketbook ebook reader 20:47:37 mathrick: qemu 20:47:38 it does have an emulator, so it is an option 20:47:39 can't you build them on the host? 20:47:58 stassats`: that's what I asked for! I want to compile CL to ebook binaries 20:48:12 but my laptop is x64, and the reader is ARM-eabi 20:48:34 host being the e-reader 20:48:42 i should have probably said "target" 20:48:48 yeah, probably 20:49:26 I can try that too, but that involves cross-compiling ECL or CCL itself to run under the ebook emu, using their build system 20:49:31 which I dunno if I can pull off 20:49:55 mathrick: what arm architecture does the reader have? 20:50:08 arm_gnueabi 20:50:35 mathrick: that is just the abi spec, not the arm architecture itself 20:50:52 I don't rightly know, lemme poke it a bit 20:51:04 mathrick: i'd try to run the ccl binary on the ebook reader to see if it works. 20:51:41 mathrick: if it does, you could just use some arbitrary qemu arm image and use that to "cross compile" stuff for your reader hardware. 20:51:42 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:09 oh right, I just realised I can't use their emu build output, since that just compiles x86 images and runs them in a more of a chroot environment than CPU emulator 20:52:30 H4ns: right, does ccl need more than just "the CCL binary" to run? 20:53:01 mathrick: binary and image 20:53:07 no libs? 20:53:10 that's pretty nifty 20:53:12 libc 20:53:20 right, but that is included on the target 20:54:13 arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ 20:54:14 uhh 20:54:27 I have no idea how to find out what ARM that is 20:54:45 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 20:54:58 uname -a 20:55:25 Tril [~tril@unaffiliated/tril] has joined #lisp 20:55:35 that's the crosscompiler on my laptop 20:55:57 ah, -dumpmachine 20:56:06 mathrick@megumi ~/Dev/Pocketbook/clock $ arm-none-linux-gnueabi-g++ -dumpmachine 20:56:06 arm-none-linux-gnueabi 20:56:07 .... 20:56:17 you need to run uname -a on the target 20:56:32 francogrex [~user@109.134.221.219] has joined #lisp 20:57:36 ok, let's try that 20:57:52 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.52.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:58:49 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:00:38 H4ns: armv7l 21:01:02 add^_ [~add^_@78-70-121-101-no170.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:05 mathrick: that should work. now copy over armcl and armcl.image and try to run it on the target 21:01:11 it == armcl 21:01:21 *dim* is discovering series, looks pretty awesome to my naive eyes 21:01:44 dim: it is kind of awesome, except for the code walking. 21:01:51 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:01:57 what do you mean? 21:02:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.221.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:30 it walks your code to fuse it into the efficient output form 21:02:31 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.16] has joined #lisp 21:02:39 meaning it has to know a lot of special forms to do anything useful 21:02:42 at compilation time? only? 21:03:33 H4ns: quick question, how do I tell it what image to use? 21:03:42 mathrick: -I iirc 21:03:55 mathrick: you'd better look at the documentation 21:04:20 have to know a lot of special forms... I guess it's ok as long as those forms are in the standard and well enough defined... is that the case? 21:04:53 H4ns: doing that, was just hoping you'd remember it before I grep through it, which you did 21:05:00 and it seems to be -I, yeah 21:05:37 dim: some implementations define their own special forms, code walking can be kind of hackish 21:05:56 i would guess more so in series since it's positively ancient and dealt with half-CLs, didn't it? 21:06:05 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:06:15 I'm now trying to look when that code walking happens, I guess it's when using some of the series provided macros 21:06:43 SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:50 -!- SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:07:50 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-69-151-246-20.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 21:07:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:54 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:03 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:08:03 series still looks like lazy programming for CL 21:08:30 Lazy? 21:08:36 dim: yeah. it looks cool. i'm not even sure why i never really tried it when i was in the excitement stage like you are now :) 21:08:47 hehe 21:08:49 It might be nice to find the papers to read. 21:09:18 H4ns: it happened once when we talked about lparallel, if you remember correctly --- that was "beginner's luck" for me, let's see if it continues :) 21:09:34 Bike: I'm in http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node350.html 21:09:34 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:54 dim: that's a summary, the papers are about how it's implemented and so on 21:09:55 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:01 dim: i think a lot of them are in the readme 21:10:15 oh, ok, yeah I'm not into implementation yet 21:10:19 probably never will be 21:12:52 /mnt/ext1/armcl: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.11' not found (required by /mnt/ext1/armcl) 21:13:01 so much for unchanged binaries 21:14:37 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:41 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:14:44 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:14:51 also glibc's symbol versioning is insane and needs to change 21:15:48 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:30 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:19:48 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:23:54 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:02 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:28:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:08 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:32:46 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 21:35:09 mathrick: why ? 21:35:35 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:44 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:36:43 fe[nl]ix: because instead of versioning the symbols with the glibc version in which they first appeared or were changed incompatibly, they bump the version of ALL symbols for EVERY glibc release, meaning it's impossible to build cleanly for older glibcs if your build system ships a newer one, even if you don't use any old symbols 21:37:12 because it still links to 21:37:44 that's false 21:37:54 they do not increase the version of all symbols 21:37:56 it was the case last time I learnt about glibc's versioning 21:38:07 you are mistaken 21:38:17 how do they do it then? 21:38:25 [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has joined #lisp 21:38:40 hard stack overflow 21:38:41 ? for help 21:38:41 [2352] Clozure CL kernel debugger: Killed 21:38:43 progress! 21:39:41 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:48 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:40:33 mathrick: they only increase the symbol version for functions that have changed 21:40:43 see e.g. objdump -T /lib/libc.so.6 21:41:02 very few have version 2.11 or older 21:45:06 on my machine, 1218 have version GLIBC_2.0 and only 8 have GLIBC_2.11 21:45:17 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:25 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:46:03 fe[nl]ix: I see none for GLIBC_2.0, lowest is 2.2.5 21:48:51 Ubuntu ? 21:48:54 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:49:09 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.16] has joined #lisp 21:51:11 fe[nl]ix: derivative, Mint 14 21:51:22 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:31 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:52:32 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:52:52 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:54:30 ISTR that Debian uses their own fork of glibc 21:54:55 yeah, I believe they use eglibc 21:55:18 which is not "their own", but is a fork of eglibc 21:55:31 focused on making the maintainership and building saner overall 21:55:35 because, you know, drepper 21:56:11 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:28 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:36 hi 21:57:37 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:57:50 hello Posterdati 22:00:16 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:04 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:02:37 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:03:14 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:10 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:30 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 22:05:06 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:24 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:09 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:10 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 22:08:18 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:09:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:10:35 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:55 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:12:03 keppy [~keppy@2600:100f:b12c:7d05:be5d:7521:6166:4627] has joined #lisp 22:12:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:36 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:14:10 -!- keppy [~keppy@2600:100f:b12c:7d05:be5d:7521:6166:4627] has quit [] 22:14:44 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:53 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:16:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:10 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:19:08 malpas [~al@3.Red-88-26-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:20 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:28 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:20:35 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@dxb47.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:41 H4ns: I don't see in series what I've read called "take" in clojure and haskell, that is a way to limit the lazy evaluation. Apparently cotruncate is not effective when one of the series is dynamic (a series:collecting-fn call) 22:20:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:02 and subseries ain't it either 22:21:14 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:59 (series:scan-fn '(values integer integer) #'(lambda () (values 1 1)) #'(lambda (f1 f2) (values f2 (+ f1 f2)))) ; that seems infinite, I don't know how to stop it after say 10 iterations 22:22:40 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:23:39 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:41 -!- Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:24:25 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:34 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:24:42 Guest9041 [Guest9041@218.59.111.165] has joined #lisp 22:25:05 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:25:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:24 really? s-doc gives the example of (SUBSERIES (SCAN-RANGE :FROM 0 :BY 2) 0 5) 22:26:08 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 22:26:26 dim: actually I don't even need that, I have *print-length* bound and that cuts it off. 22:26:47 subseries works too, though. 22:27:24 damn, yes, now that I try again it works. what the hell did I do? 22:27:36 killerboy [~mateusz@agif162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:27:45 ahah 22:28:04 (subseries () n), which is to say, start from n 22:28:12 never say how much I want, so infinite 22:28:15 yes, you need the other argument, of course. 22:28:20 same as subseq 22:28:23 thanks Bike :) 22:29:23 it is nice to have print-length bound anyway though. lets you look at (parts of) infinite sequences without worrying about circularities or anything, and not overflowing your repl when you make the wrong call and get a twenty-thousand element vector as a result. 22:30:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:30:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:30:55 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:01 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:10 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:31:21 (series:subseries (series:scan-fn '(values integer integer) #'(lambda () (values 1 1)) #'(lambda (f1 f2) (values f2 (+ f1 f2)))) 0 25) seems comparable in speed to (loop repeat 25 for x = 0 then y and y = 1 then (+ x y) collect y) 22:31:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.197.223] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:31:47 I'm also trying returning the 10000th element of the series, of course 22:32:12 I didn't succeed using #Z notation (reader macro) by the way 22:32:20 I think you have to explicitly install it. 22:32:25 well maybe it's only documentation notation and not in the package 22:32:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:38 but, anyway, the point of series is that you write functionalish code with series, and it'll rewrite it as a loop like that for you. 22:33:20 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:33:42 yeah I kind of like that 22:33:54 don't know if I'll have a real case usage, but well 22:34:25 maybe just implementing the classic haskell problem where you want to build a list of items, if I remember the key words I need for that 22:34:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:34:41 it could be better in several ways. i think pkhuong wrote some of an attempted modern equivalent 22:34:47 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:05 knapsack it is 22:35:15 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.173.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:21 https://github.com/pkhuong/Pipes right. 22:35:27 Raptum [~cdh473@50.96.145.1] has joined #lisp 22:35:39 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:35:52 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 22:35:52 -!- Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:36:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:15 -!- add^_ [~add^_@78-70-121-101-no170.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 22:36:23 <[6502]> I've a strange logical problem with dynamic binding. I've a function that creates a button that when pressed does something. This "something" depends on a special variable but the value should be the one at the time the button was created. The only solution I found was to capture the special in a lexical, then rebinding the special when performing the computation. Is there a better way? 22:36:27 -!- mizlev [~mzl@183.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:36:39 Spaceghostc2c [Spaceghost@unaffiliated/spaceghostc2c] has joined #lisp 22:37:28 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:34 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@agif162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:37:34 killerbo1 [~mateusz@bpx198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:38:49 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:38:59 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:39:01 -!- cdh473 [~cdh473@50.96.93.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:40:39 <[6502]> I liked the idea that specials can be used to define a "context" without having to pass them to all functions, but delayed computation (e.g. creating a button that *later* does something) breaks this model 22:41:49 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:42:36 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:38 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:42:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:43:09 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:45:17 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:45:38 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:46:05 [6502]: dynamic binding is about WHEN. lexical binding is about WHERE. If you want to bring a dynamic binding in the future, you have to keep it in a safe place, until you need it. 22:46:43 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:49:15 mizlev [~mizlev@131.Red-81-32-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:50:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:51:04 dim: (set-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\z #'series::series-reader) 22:51:19 hehe, thanks 22:51:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:41 there's also one for m. it's all in series::install, which isn't exported for some strange reason. 22:52:57 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:53:23 the #M I'm not interested into, I would find using series:map-fn easier to read 22:53:31 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:55:42 stlifey [~stlifey@125.89.69.219] has joined #lisp 23:00:03 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 23:00:39 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:15 wdkrnls [~user@50.36.90.64] has joined #lisp 23:05:02 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@h193.61.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:22 normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-69-151-246-20.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:30 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:55 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:11 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 23:14:01 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 23:14:31 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-84.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:16:00 Thra11 [~thrall@175.106.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:43 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 23:17:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-199.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:43 -!- killerbo1 [~mateusz@bpx198.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:42:21 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-69-151-246-20.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [] 23:42:37 bitonic [~user@ppp-133-48.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 23:44:47 -!- [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:44:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:50:04 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 23:50:17 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 23:50:44 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:20 mizlev1 [~mizlev@38.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:11 -!- mizlev [~mizlev@131.Red-81-32-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]