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Quit] 05:38:33 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 05:41:05 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:41:13 Skillsob [~Skillsob@58.108.147.45] has joined #lisp 05:42:48 What's happening in LISP these days? 05:43:11 I've read SICP but never really got into LISP itself. I just hate the complete and utter lack of type safety. 05:43:34 But you can do fucking ridiculous things. 05:43:58 it's just dynamically typed, not type-unsafe 05:44:15 Skillsob: Hahaha 05:44:24 You can do utterly ridiculous things in type-safe langs. 05:44:38 Or in statically typed, nazi typed, whatever you want to call it. 05:44:51 anyway, mostly the same things as usual, though thankfully we've invented lowercase letters, so you can call it "Lisp" 05:51:49 Fuck, we've already invented lower case letters? Someone needs to tell Fortran. 05:52:20 they're usually going by "Fortran" nowadays far as I know 05:53:20 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.217.81.18] has joined #lisp 05:54:24 I meant that all Fortran code is in upper case (isn't it?) 05:54:32 cfdm [~user@116.126.96.159] has joined #lisp 05:55:09 i cant seem to figure out why this is returning the same pointer twice rather than 2 different ones. what do i have to change? http://sprunge.us/AKfJ 05:55:20 Skillsob: nah 05:57:23 axion: well, i can't see the functions you get the pointers from (open-display and start-update), those are presumably the ones returning the same pointer 05:57:42 wait, misread. 05:58:05 yes those are pointers for the 2 rects 05:58:13 well, supposed to be 05:59:39 wait, why does make-rect end with a memref call? 06:00:17 oh, i'm just misunderstanding this. ignore me 06:02:42 yeah something is not right. i call the make-rect function twice in (test) to create structs and i want make-rect to return a different pointer each time 06:10:13 -!- pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:15:24 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:17:01 -!- Skillsob [~Skillsob@58.108.147.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:18:03 -!- lewisx [~m@212.91.105.236] has quit [Quit: lewisx] 06:21:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:54 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:24:10 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p548392FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:03 <|3b|> axion: the pointer allocated by with-foreign-object is freed when with-foreign-object finishes (which is sort of the point of WITH- macros, same way with-open-file closes the file, etc) 06:31:27 -!- cfdm [~user@116.126.96.159] has left #lisp 06:31:56 ok so i have to allocate them to memory and free them manually with foreign-alloc like with (get-display-size) ??? 06:32:11 <|3b|> depends on what you are trying to do 06:32:46 lewisx [~m@212.91.105.236] has joined #lisp 06:32:48 Jubb [~ghost@24-151-37-211.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:11 i need to pass the separate pointers into a foreign funcall 06:33:44 <|3b|> do they need to exist after the call? for any particular length of time before the call? 06:33:57 <|3b|> or do they just need to exist for the exact duration of the call? 06:34:30 <|3b|> the 'duration of the call' option is pretty much the point of WITH- macros 06:35:45 i am going to have to pass the return of the funcall to a foreign slot value 06:35:51 if that matters 06:35:53 <|3b|> (or for the duration of whatever function calls the foreign function) 06:36:06 *|3b|* has no idea if it matters 06:36:15 |3b|: http://benosteen.wordpress.com/2012/04/27/using-opengl-es-2-0-on-the-raspberry-pi-without-x-windows/ 06:36:31 the line that starts with dispman_element = ... 06:36:38 is what id like to do 06:36:49 any further code hasnt been ported 06:38:38 <|3b|> well, doesn't look like anything else in that code uses them, so should be enough to just allocate it for the duration of the foreign call 06:38:57 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:38:57 <|3b|> didn't you already go over this with pjb or somebody? 06:38:58 -!- karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:39:40 probably, but he suggested to use w-f-o for this 06:40:10 <|3b|> i think you misunderstood what was being suggested 06:40:21 <|3b|> you want to use w-f-o, but not the way you use it 06:40:32 hmm 06:40:34 <|3b|> you shouldn't be passing foreign pointers around your lisp code 06:40:40 <|3b|> which was the whole point of the structs 06:40:45 karupanerura [~karupaner@www5325uf.sakura.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:41:42 ok thanks, i'll try a few things 06:41:49 <|3b|> you make a lisp struct with x,y,width,height then work with it as normal for lisp data 06:41:58 <|3b|> then you have a function to wrap that specific foreign call 06:42:37 <|3b|> and pass lisp data to that function (including the lisp structs with x,y,w,h) 06:43:34 <|3b|> and inside that function, you allocate any foreign pointers with W-F-O, and copy the data from the lisp values into the foreign values, call the foreign function, extract any values it returns and translate them to lisp values 06:44:42 makes a little more sense now. thank you 06:44:57 i fear it is going to take me a while to get it in code though 06:47:39 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-37-211.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:26 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 06:49:50 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 06:51:31 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176494044.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:54:21 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 06:55:33 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:58:06 -!- 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[~czsq888@171.217.81.18] has joined #lisp 07:37:01 segmond_ [~segmond@108.73.162.171] has joined #lisp 07:39:07 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.169.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:50 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:58 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@99.102.148.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:40:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:43:30 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-49-14.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45:27 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:45:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-103.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:46:05 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:47:14 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:51:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-49-14.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:51:43 pnpuff_ [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:51:56 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176494044.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 07:52:36 -!- pnpuff_ is now known as pnpu1f 07:52:59 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:55:21 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176494044.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:55:24 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:56:16 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.69] has joined #lisp 07:56:29 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:47 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176494044.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 07:58:17 LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:31 ok, so THIS was a stupid error 07:58:55 for all that time I missed that git-cvs was not installed on the machine that I was running the slime mirror on 07:59:00 *antifuchs* slaps forehead 07:59:05 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 08:01:09 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 08:02:59 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 08:03:43 dbushenko [~dim@ec2-54-242-175-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:57 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:05:31 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-220-191-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 08:10:32 -!- cfy is now known as ilisp 08:16:17 okay! https://github.com/antifuchs/slime is now up to date again. phew. 08:17:05 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:17:49 luis: sorry for the really really long wait on this 08:17:49 (and for breaking history; the other one was just pretty unsalvageably broken in places )-:) 08:19:29 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:48 Slivka [~Slivka@81.4.242.0] has joined #lisp 08:19:49 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-71-228.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:20:45 -!- Slivka 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[~Indeciphe@41.13.40.152] has joined #lisp 10:43:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:45:10 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.196.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:46:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.183.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:46:36 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:56 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.40.152] has quit [Client Quit] 10:47:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:49:36 koik [~koik@65.Red-81-35-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:39 http://www.carolinaherrera.com/212/es/areyouonthelist?share=q6IaCcQMqoRxdi5nWij9iL8CbSN2ar5IY_v4JetXP-7kz4rz3EUUdzs6j6FXsjB4447F-isvxjqkXd4Qey2GHw#episodio-3 10:50:14 what is that link? 10:52:14 stassats`: it was posted in #emacs just now as well, I suspect it's spam 10:56:47 add^_ [~add^_@78-70-121-101-no170.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:08 <|3b|> yeah, looks like it 10:57:48 *|3b|* always wonders what would happen to those link spammers if people just started downloading the link in a loop with wget or something 10:58:19 -!- koik [~koik@65.Red-81-35-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: koik] 10:59:36 <|3b|> probably nothing bad enough to justify the effort 11:00:40 they would get more money for hits? 11:01:05 <|3b|> maybe, or maybe they would get in trouble for fake hits 11:02:40 -!- add^_ [~add^_@78-70-121-101-no170.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: The Garbage Collector got me...] 11:04:14 *|3b|* would assume that if wget loops was actually beneficial, one of the spammers would figure it out eventually 11:05:13 <|3b|> off topic either way though, so i'll stop now 11:05:42 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@176-11-231-201.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 11:07:14 bitonic [~user@ppp-133-38.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 11:10:46 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:45 am0c_ [~am0c@211.246.78.15] has joined #lisp 11:13:59 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 11:14:23 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 11:14:35 pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:50 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.148.65] has joined #lisp 11:15:17 How do you specify a variable's type in LOOP when such type takes arguments? 11:15:27 of-type 11:16:40 thank you 11:21:03 -!- lewisx [~m@212.91.105.236] has quit [Quit: lewisx] 11:21:16 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@211.246.78.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:24:18 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:25:07 -!- mikef [~mikef@41.80.255.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:26:03 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:25 am0c_ [~am0c@211.246.78.15] has joined #lisp 11:27:33 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@211.246.78.15] has left #lisp 11:34:55 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:35:24 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[~user@i577A147E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:10 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.185.79] has joined #lisp 14:08:38 zpcat [~user@119.122.29.50] has joined #lisp 14:10:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.185.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:11:59 hello I'm trying to bind a C event library. Is there any place where I can see how siginfo is mapped using CFFI ? I can't figure out how to deal with things like pid_t and such 14:12:25 use cffi-grovel 14:13:09 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 14:13:20 ok 14:23:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:23:26 -!- mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:25:49 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:25:51 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:15 wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has joined #lisp 14:30:41 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-211-208.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:35:00 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-141-181.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:35:45 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 14:35:58 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 14:36:46 stassats`, LOL in cffi-grovel documentation "Define a CFFI foreign type for the string in size-designator, e.g. (ctype :pid "pid_t"). " 14:38:06 since I'll have to add the grovel file in asdf which is the extension for grovel files ? .grovel ? 14:38:22 pid_t is a scalar, so you can pass any integer and get back any integer. That means, either a bignum or a fixnum, as long as it's within the bounds of pid_t. 14:38:48 grovel.lisp will do 14:38:48 Anyways, in C API, if they use pid_t it means that you don't have to care about the size of the type, just take it as opaque integers. 14:40:10 pjb yes infact I had problems with size. I was binding this http://docs.enlightenment.org/stable/ecore/struct__Ecore__Event__Signal__Exit.html 14:40:38 *** SPANK SPANK SPANK!!! Enlightenment server is over capacity Please wait a moment and try again later. For more information, take a look at #e.fr on Freenode. 14:40:57 They're running it in an Apple ][ ? 14:40:59 shhhh ! use https :) 14:41:19 pjb: i don't understand what you're talking about, lisp needs to know the size of pid_t to, say, properly allocate structs 14:41:20 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:41:30 pjb, no they have released first stable version of e17 today :) 14:42:02 stassats`, probably we are saying the same thing then :) 14:42:36 IIRC, CFFI-grovel compiles a C program with calls to sizeof to collect the sizes. 14:43:19 it does 14:43:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:55:12 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:02:22 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-005-153.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: perpetual darkness] 15:02:28 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:59 -!- LAMMJohnson [~john@user-5AF432F7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:18 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 15:06:14 Joreji_ [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:11 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:29 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.83.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:11:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:12:04 cosfx [~cosfx@wsip-98-175-172-245.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:25 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.124] has joined #lisp 15:14:15 chico_chicote [~user@187.74.235.205] has joined #lisp 15:20:10 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 15:20:47 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:14 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:23:37 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 15:24:27 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:25:05 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-169-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:25:15 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 15:25:57 is it correct ? (defcunion sigval (sigval-int :int) (sigval-ptr :pointer)) (defcstruct siginfo .... (si-value sigval)) ? 15:26:46 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.179.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:26:55 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:32 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 15:31:45 -!- maxm- [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:52 maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 15:33:00 browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.168.10] has joined #lisp 15:36:43 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:37:39 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 15:38:16 -!- chico_chicote [~user@187.74.235.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:59 -!- PuffTheMagic___ [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jzmdjkajtixcoijg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:59 -!- rvirding__ [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yvomfjedrdthprbd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:00 -!- dotemacs_ [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbgknqdjktgvflxo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:01 -!- NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rptojqcajzblwjjb] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:40:46 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:43:39 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:47:57 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:01 bitonic` [~user@ppp-172-62.24-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 15:52:22 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-133-38.24-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:53:46 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:10 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:11 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:59:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:59:55 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:51 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 16:05:53 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-71-228.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:55 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 16:07:21 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 16:07:44 mgla [~opera@unaffiliated/noobjoe] has joined #lisp 16:10:41 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uyhvlgdmcptumkex] has joined #lisp 16:13:42 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:15:32 dotemacs_ [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cyszmdxbggcfbazt] has joined #lisp 16:15:45 PuffTheMagic___ [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ukevpernmvjiphlr] has joined #lisp 16:16:32 francogrex [~user@109.134.234.33] has joined #lisp 16:16:36 rvirding__ [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eabkijkaqqbvqqoa] has joined #lisp 16:17:00 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:18:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134234 why the profiling overhead is that large? 16:19:32 why do you care? 16:20:52 it takes time to get the results 16:21:16 you can drink some beverage in the meantime 16:22:37 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 16:22:41 -!- jeti [~user@p548EAE05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:57 jeti [~user@p548EAE05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:57 ok and SAMPLE-WITH-REPLACEMENT 16:22:57 conses a lot how can I cons less with same? 16:24:04 -!- jeti [~user@p548EAE05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:24:20 don't call random, don't collect [200 dollars] 16:25:15 with same I said 16:25:23 that is same results 16:26:38 run it on a 32-bit architecture 16:27:13 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:28:26 and the consed number in for SAMPLE-WITH-REPLACEMENT doesn't appear to be realistic 16:28:56 what may cause the heap-exhaustion on a second invocation of a function ? 16:28:58 oh, sorry, i looked at the wrong number 16:29:20 wbooze: the lack of heap 16:29:20 16:29:58 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 16:30:12 i thought loop wouldn't use much heap! 16:30:31 what? 16:35:11 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.234.33] has quit [Quit: have to run] 16:35:51 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:38:01 are you still representing large samples as lists? 16:38:06 oh, he's gone 16:38:16 -!- herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:25 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:37 I told him about a week ago to represent samples as a vector of counts 16:40:05 -!- wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:46 herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:56 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:23 -!- zpcat [~user@119.122.29.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52:32 (float (/ (sb-ext:dynamic-space-size) (* 1024 *1024))) gives me 512.0f0 that's Mb not ? 16:53:01 erm (* 1024 1024) without the second * ofc 16:55:21 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:46 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:57:08 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:02:04 -!- Gooder [~user@125.37.174.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:25 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 17:06:42 [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has joined #lisp 17:08:49 <[6502]> Hello. I've a question about SBCL... in case there is an error during compilation or macroexpansion is the global state of compiler restored? 17:08:49 [6502], memo from pjb: and sykopomp: the problem is not with lisp reading lines from files, it's from reading csv files instead of sexps files! 17:08:49 [6502], memo from pjb: and sykopomp: (use-package :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file) (setf (sexp-file-contents "/tmp/a.sexp") '((a b 42) (c d 33) (e f 100))) (sexp-file-contents "/tmp/a.sexp") --> ((a b 42) (c d 33) (e f 100)) 17:09:27 [6502]: what is a "global state of compiler"? 17:09:59 <[6502]> stassats`: functions, macros, global symbol functions, compiler macros, interned symbols... 17:10:43 no 17:10:47 <[6502]> gobal symbol functions == global symbol macros 17:11:15 couldn't you just check it? 17:12:18 -!- mgla [~opera@unaffiliated/noobjoe] has left #lisp 17:12:50 <[6502]> if a load fails then it's complicated to restore the situation before retrying, isn't it? 17:13:16 why would anyone need it? 17:13:51 <[6502]> you mean load never fails in practice? 17:14:19 i can't imagine a process with which you concluded that from my words 17:17:07 <[6502]> you mean then that re-loading with different global state is never a problem? 17:18:29 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:18:57 if load failed, i don't see how rolling back the environment will stop it from failing 17:19:18 <[6502]> stassats`: you could roll back, fix the issue and reload 17:19:42 <[6502]> stassats`: just fixing the issue and reloading seems to me is not going to be the same thing 17:19:57 works fine for me 17:20:59 and i'm not afraid to restart lisp in case i need to 17:21:34 [6502]: hmm I guess it would be a kind of image snapshot or image state transaction, more than compiler state in general 17:21:59 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 17:21:59 if a lisp supported such 17:22:20 <[6502]> and probably before an official release the image is always rebuilt from scratch 17:22:20 it's just too much complications for no good purpose 17:22:35 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.20.75] has joined #lisp 17:24:13 <[6502]> nice to know it's not a problem in the real world :-) 17:24:16 stassats`: I think that I agree 17:24:42 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 17:25:04 every operation would have to be reversible, which needs even ffi would have to go through some sort of monadic like layer 17:25:12 s/needs/means/ 17:25:48 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 17:25:52 and anything called by the ffi would not necessary comply 17:29:54 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:23 -!- mizlev [~mzl@51.Red-79-156-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: mizlev] 17:30:28 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 -!- hagish [~hagish@p578E2B58.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:34:32 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-102-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:36:12 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:37:24 -!- herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:37:58 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:39:36 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:54 -!- CrazyEddy [~unfootsor@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Killed (jtrucks (cycling.))] 17:41:40 CrazyEddy [~tangly@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:42:52 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 17:43:09 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:43:28 Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.10.239] has joined #lisp 17:44:26 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:46:47 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:48:37 hagish [~hagish@p578E2B58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:24 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:57 p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 17:50:45 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.20.75] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 17:59:51 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:00:21 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:01:04 -!- rk[detached] is now known as ryankarason 18:01:35 are there any irc bots based in lisp? 18:01:53 minion: are you written in lisp? 18:01:54 i'm written in common lisp 18:02:02 oh:) 18:02:12 minion: do you have a git? 18:02:12 here i am, brain the size of a planet, and all i do is answer your silly questions all day... maybe you have time to have a git 18:02:21 haha 18:02:21 no, doesn't at the moment 18:02:28 i <3 hg2g 18:02:30 awh:( 18:02:41 all those ones on git i know of are python 18:02:44 i have a password in the source code, i'm to lazy to change it 18:02:51 and i would like to see some foundation for one before i start writing a lisp bot 18:02:58 ah. 18:03:01 once i change it, i'll put it on github 18:03:06 what functionality does minion have? 18:03:20 minion: help? 18:03:20 There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 18:03:36 ryankarason: cl-irc has a few bots in its distribution 18:03:51 ryankarason: looking up terms, looking at cliki.net 18:03:58 ah very nice. 18:03:58 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:01 minion: minion? 18:04:01 minion: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/minion 18:04:18 clhs list 18:04:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_list.htm 18:04:21 mizlev [~mzl@51.Red-79-156-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:22 this one is for specs 18:04:48 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.179] has joined #lisp 18:05:20 minion: version? 18:05:20 This is the minion bot, running on a X86 (Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU 5160 @ 3.00GHz) and running under SBCL 1.0.56. 18:06:01 situ [~situ@static.231.226.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 18:06:12 -!- situ [~situ@static.231.226.47.78.clients.your-server.de] has left #lisp 18:06:47 <[6502]> does it have an eval service 8) ? 18:07:00 no, never will 18:08:20 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:08:39 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:09:49 question: what idiot invented the fiction that lisp is a 'functional programming language'? 18:10:16 you can have functions in lisp 18:10:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 18:10:46 (where it clearly is a programming SYSTEM, which is flexible enough that so-called 'imperative' and 'functional' kinds of writing a solution to a problem can be expressed) 18:11:00 it's not even a programming language in the strict sense of the word 18:11:07 let alone a functional one 18:12:11 so, it's a tea pot? 18:12:14 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:51 stassats`: you can read the excellent http://dreamsongs.com/Files/Incommensurability.pdf for a bit of context :-) 18:16:00 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:16 no thanks, i can't seem to be able to read rpg's essays 18:16:41 oh, now that I read a little more I would venture a guess that this 'functional' adjective needs to be taken in the context of the 1950's.. 18:17:31 i doubt anyone was calling lisp "functional" in anything like the modern sense in the fifties 18:17:39 indeed. 18:18:15 kmee [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 18:18:19 and I would contend that it's not 'functional' in the modern sense at all.. the modern sense can only be understood in the context of the language paradigm 18:18:43 where lisp is squarely a product of the systems paradigm 18:19:13 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-102-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:30 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.32.24] has joined #lisp 18:19:35 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.32.24] has left #lisp 18:19:47 it just happens to *support* thinking the way a modern functional programmer thinks.. up to a point. 18:19:53 my impression is that functional would be more a property of your code (if you wanted to write it as such) than of cl itself 18:20:04 sytse: so, what point are you trying to make? 18:20:39 nobody in #lisp describe common lisp as a solely functional programming lisp 18:20:51 stassats`: meh, I just wanted to know how this classification of lisp as a functional programming language (when we're talking about language classification) came about 18:21:09 probably from scientists or something =] 18:21:25 well, at a guess i would assume it has something to do with Scheme 18:21:30 phadthai: exactly 18:23:08 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:29:48 historic context is often useful to understand such things. When Lisp was introduced, Fortran was the high level language. 18:31:04 basic82 [3df5a0fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.245.160.254] has joined #lisp 18:34:02 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.168.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 18:36:22 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:15 ryankarason: I liked the trivial-irc library when I was messing about a bit with irc 18:44:38 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:45:25 <[6502]> lisp is as functional as Java 18:45:26 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:47 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:32 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-220-15-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:49:19 herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has joined #lisp 18:54:45 sytse: i think functional is a way to approach computation by means ,to say, of a set of recursive functions. So a sort of model of computation. 18:54:45 pnpuff, memo from pjb: have a look at http://www.informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#Compilation 18:55:41 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:55:47 pnpuff: so is language theory. And the systems approach. And several parallel programming paradigms 18:57:19 i think lambda-recursive-functions are not less functional than mu-recursive-function. But i'm new in this field :) 18:57:36 pnpuff: I just see the 'functional programming language' paradigm as something completely orthogonal to lisp 18:58:20 in other words, the answer to whether it is, is 'mu' () 19:00:15 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:37 so functions that can be computated by means of turing machines are not less functional than functions that can be computed by means of markov algorithms, or not? 19:02:09 depends on what context you ask the question in, maybe? 19:02:37 weren't markov algorithms equivalent to turing machines btw? 19:04:43 tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:46 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09:17 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 19:10:24 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 19:11:10 -!- cosfx [~cosfx@wsip-98-175-172-245.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:14 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.185.79] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 19:15:03 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.220.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:29 arbitrary string rewriting is turing-complete, yes 19:16:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:17:18 is turing-complete turing-complete ? 19:19:20 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:20:20 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22:00 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 19:22:02 Bike: yes, but is the reverse true as well? 19:22:36 (any turing machine algorithm can be expressed as a markov string algorithm) 19:22:46 Uh. Yes? Turing equivalency is commutative. 19:22:59 -!- basic82 [3df5a0fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.245.160.254] has quit [] 19:23:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_grammar 19:23:59 Bike: so I meant, is it turing equivalent. You only said it was turing complete. Not every turing complete system is turing equivalent 19:24:25 ohw ait 19:24:28 church-turing thesis 19:24:38 I think that you are confused. 19:24:51 p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 19:27:55 Bike: not really; the church-turing thesis has not been proved, so turing completeness does not imply turing equivalence; my answer to pnpuff depended on turing equivalence, not turing completeness 19:28:03 minor technicality 19:29:51 what is this discussion? 19:30:35 computational discrete mathematics :) 19:31:57 oh 19:32:01 I would say nonsense 19:32:06 but that works, too =] 19:34:17 sytse: https://sites.google.com/site/modelsofcomputation/ do you like it? 19:38:07 not sure yet. 19:38:10 then again 19:38:23 if I were the inventor of these formalisms I probably wouldn't be sure yet 19:38:27 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176493761.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:40:20 they've proven themselves to be very useful though, especially as an abstract foundation for computability and computational complexity theory (then again, I'm not so sure of the use of computability theory) 19:41:17 well, for a start, it's nice to know that the problem you've been beating your head on is actually impossible 19:43:27 then again 19:43:27 can you maybe discuss all this outside of #lisp? 19:43:39 that really only has meaning on infinite problems ;) 19:43:57 k.. I guess I'm done anyway 19:46:05 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:10 sytse: http://www.nd.edu/~svandend/Math_Club_Talk_Computability.pdf 19:48:57 stassats`: is maybe even Gödel,to say, an oustsider of #lisp? (-: 19:50:10 I'm reading godel escher bach 19:50:18 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:51:07 -!- cfy [~ilisp@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:57:28 sytse: i believe pure lisp is purely functional and hence why "lisp is functional", but pure lisp or pure functional programming really isn't all that useful 19:58:52 Bike: you mean it is good to know that a problem you've been beating your head on is even more impossible in theory than it is impossible in this universe? 19:59:37 ryankarason: Churchs Thesis is not a purely thesis. 20:00:11 -!- herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00:40 ryankarason: then again. Some subset of C++ is also a purely functional turing-complete language. So C++ must then also be considered a 'functional language', by the same argument 20:00:52 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:01:35 sytse: my thought would be revolving around your keyword "subset" 20:01:56 ryankarason: same thing in lisp; the purely functional part of lisp is a 'subset' of lisp right? 20:02:03 lisp 1.0 was purely functional 20:02:05 the whole thing 20:02:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:02:12 hmm 20:02:12 then off of that was built lisp 1.5 20:02:15 which added defun 20:02:25 which in my opinion breaks pure functionality 20:02:34 because now you can define things for later use, woah! 20:02:41 which is so very useful 20:02:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:03:28 see my thought is people use say, common lisp 20:03:33 which isn't pure-lisp 20:03:35 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 20:03:41 but it is purely useful, lol. 20:04:06 -!- nikodem [~mikey@user-46-113-46-177.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:04:56 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:06 either way the ability to do functional programming is awesome:D 20:05:20 -!- pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:09 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: ``enjoy the silence''] 20:06:17 ryankarason: what's the difference between lisp 1 'define' and defun then, with regards to pure functionality? 20:07:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:08:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:09:54 pjb [~user@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:22 why should I learn lisp over haskell? 20:10:33 ryankarason: lisp 1 also had destructive functions 20:10:36 like nconc 20:10:40 spiderweb: because it's more fun. 20:10:45 rplaca 20:10:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:20 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:11:58 CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:10 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:12:11 pjb: yep, rplaca and rplacd as well 20:12:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:19 and setq 20:12:59 Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:13:17 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:13:29 and lots of functions like speak, which is obviously not side-effect-free (the order of execution is very important here) 20:13:44 so I fail to see how lisp 1 was purely functional 20:14:11 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:14:19 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:07 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:16:50 I guess the basis lisp has in lambda calculus must have something to do with it 20:17:11 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:19:47 jungy [~smuxi@68.48.245.159] has joined #lisp 20:21:26 sytse: who said lisp1 was purely functional? 20:23:22 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:03 ryankarason: 20:24:26 pjb: cool! I'm just trying to find a language that I will learn the most with. 20:26:13 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:26:48 spiderweb: then learn one. Then learn it better. Then learn the other one. Then learn that one better :P 20:26:55 that's what you'll learn the most with :P 20:27:41 haskell is fairly opaque without some solid mathematical background (abstract algebra, category theory) 20:28:01 still useful without it 20:28:09 ok 20:28:45 but.. you won't learn all the intricacies and nice aspects of haskell without diving a bit into mathematics as well I guess :) 20:28:56 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:15 spiderweb: lisp is fun, haskell is.. a modern mathematician's definition of fun. Depends on which one you want :-) 20:29:27 ok :-) 20:29:43 hmm, wait 20:29:52 I really should be more vague to you 20:29:56 I'm being way too specific 20:30:59 comatose_kid [~comatose_@CPE001b63f2305c-CM0023bee41a51.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 snearch [~snearch@g225079050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:57 my plan is to start with scheme and sicp, then common lisp, then haskell. 20:32:23 try clojure as well, you'll see quite a few concepts you wouldn't otherwise 20:32:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:33:00 spiderweb: I could advise you, take the one you're *least* comfortable with. Alternatively, I could say, take the one that looks like fun the most. None of this is really useful though, just take a pick and go for it :) 20:33:48 ok, cool! 20:33:50 spiderweb: hmm, studying to be a polyglot, eh 20:34:08 yeah 20:35:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:35:59 btw, the only advice I have on programming (and life) is: don't let anybody tell you what's good and what's not 20:36:09 they don't know either 20:36:25 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:36:31 they just think they do :) 20:36:38 spiderweb: you've got a good plan. Don't lose your time with clojure. 20:38:01 see? Everything depends on who you talk to 20:40:43 <[6502]> lisp was not invented, it was discovered. any sufficiently intelligent life form in the universe will find Lisp 20:40:52 <[6502]> may be not eval-when tho 20:41:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:11 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.29] has joined #lisp 20:42:40 p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 20:43:31 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 20:43:37 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has quit [Client Quit] 20:44:33 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:50 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:07 francogrex [~user@109.134.234.33] has joined #lisp 20:46:30 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:49:04 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:49:53 setmeaway2: 20:50:02 ops ...sorry! 20:50:24 sytse: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FunctionalProgramming ^_^ 20:52:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-116-225-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:32 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:39 pnpuff: cee-language :-) 21:10:35 is there a reference other than clhs for how to declare types (all types possible)? 21:10:56 francogrex: what more do you want to know? 21:10:56 to make disassemble more optimal and functions faster 21:11:00 clhs is th reference. 21:11:00 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is th reference.. 21:11:06 pnpuff: I came across that wiki earlier.. that c2.com domain really confuses me 21:11:21 why? 21:11:26 like what vector types there are etc 21:11:33 clhs vector 21:11:33 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_vector.htm 21:11:37 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:42 francogrex: it depends on the implementation 21:11:53 francogrex: actually, the exact vector types existing depend on the implementation. 21:12:02 clhs upgraded-array-element-type 21:12:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upgr_1.htm 21:12:08 is that simply.. the personal web server of some dude or dudes who used to have a consultancy business? 21:12:24 sytse: it's a wiki. 21:12:34 like http://cliki.net 21:12:35 or is there still some consultancy business going on and what do they do then? 21:12:38 c2? Ward's Wiki used to be The Wiki. 21:12:42 it's the first wiki 21:12:46 pjb: see http://c2.com/ 21:13:20 'We are proud to host and edit the Portland Pattern Repository which is an online journal for patterns about programs and the de facto home of the extreme programming discipline.' 21:13:35 Well, I already browsed c2 pages, but never the home page. Indeed, it looks like it's run by a consultancy. 21:13:42 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225079050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:14:19 and that wiki, is that the.. bin for some completely disparate groups to put intelligent drivel on? Which groups then? Why? Why there? What did it come from? 21:14:22 weird 21:14:38 wiki are written by ANY body. 21:14:46 so it was hijacked? 21:14:49 The only selection in general is to be interested in contributing. 21:14:54 So be it. 21:14:55 usually 21:14:57 but isn't there a single page to have all possible types one can declare (for sbcl for example) ? 21:15:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:09 But people don't have time to hijack wikis in general. 21:15:11 people contribute to a wiki, that's *appropriate* to the kind of stuff they want to contribute 21:15:15 -!- paul0 [~paulo@177.96.49.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:28 I just can't figure out what 'appropriate' would be in the context of this wiki, it doesn't seem to have any principles whatsoever 21:15:31 sytse: that's now that wiki is a concept, rather than a website. 21:15:40 francogrex: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 21:15:47 For some famous wikis, like wikipedia.org hijackers can be blacklisted. 21:15:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:15:56 But most wikis don't even need that. 21:16:04 Bike: yeah that"s the page. Thanks 21:16:08 maybe try #wiki or something 21:16:18 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 21:17:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:20 -!- kanru`` [~kanru@111-249-133-182.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:17:37 francogrex: if you're on sbcl, sb-kernel::*specialized-array-element-types* has possible results of u-a-e-t. (pretty much all number types) 21:17:50 oh wait 21:17:52 now I see 21:17:55 it's *the* wiki 21:18:27 -!- CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:39 so simply 'wiki' or 'WikiWikiWeb' aptly defines it.. that place where you can edit 21:18:50 weird, that that's still around :) 21:18:52 and nice 21:19:15 -!- theos is now known as Guest63694 21:19:48 sytse: hey! It wasn't so long ago! It'd be weird if it wasn't still around. 21:19:53 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 21:20:00 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@61-91-20-179.static.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:20:10 pjb: :P 21:20:25 If you're going to be offtopic here, you could try to read the answer you get. As it is, we're treated to a stream of your thinking on a topic most people here probably don't care for. 21:20:29 pjb: it wouldn't be weird if nobody would still be around using it 21:20:34 What's very weird, is when you see URIs in movies from a few years ago, and you can't reach it, because those fucking rapists of movie corporations can't run a website for more than six months. 21:21:20 -!- Guest63694 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21:44 sytse: lisp is an awesome functional programming language !!! 21:21:51 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-158-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:07 what's with #lisp today? 21:22:09 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:22:23 pnpuff: so my question for you is why you want/need to use as? Why not just generate code for your own VM implemented in lisp? 21:22:45 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 21:23:00 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:23:26 pjb: thanks for your link. 21:24:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:26:36 is an awesome link! :) 21:26:54 anyway i love assembly after lisp :) 21:27:15 so i would try to write that kind of compiler. 21:27:36 Once you've written it like in those articles, it will be simple for you to generate as input. 21:27:52 anyway in scheme is simpler... :( 21:28:03 I don't see how that could be. 21:29:29 swanstomp [~charlie@host86-167-79-74.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:56 -!- swanstomp [~charlie@host86-167-79-74.range86-167.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 21:32:00 so I'm trying to write lisp code that genearates machine code output ... after linking .. seems easy! 21:32:04 or not??? 21:32:09 Ralt__ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:32:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-3-219.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:42 anyway I'm at beginning ... :( 21:32:45 pnpuff: what did you do those last two days? 21:33:06 pnpuff: just google for a linux assembler tutorial, and write the lisp code to generate it! 21:33:17 pjb: sure... 21:34:10 -!- Ralt_ [~ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:37 cdh473_ [~cdh473@h116.15.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:38 Thra11_ [~thrall@31.185.149.33] has joined #lisp 21:39:23 -!- Raptum [~cdh473@50.96.157.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:56 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.114.10.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:41:11 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.185.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:24 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:43:56 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.175.148.65] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:44:32 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:45:03 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:32 generating assembly code is pretty simpole 21:46:36 *simple 21:47:05 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-236-092.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:47:07 is this optimal http://paste.lisp.org/display/134240 ? 21:47:27 it's the "how I make it interesting" that gets fun :) 21:48:21 there are some that are already there as libraries 21:49:22 isn't this what disassemble does on most major implementations already? 21:50:01 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 21:50:02 kinda 21:50:25 the crucial thing is when you want to have a "clean" assembler for various specific uses 21:50:39 for example, for generating code for a microcontroller 21:52:22 yeah, clean is the operative 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