00:04:12 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:32 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:49 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:11:59 pjb [~t@cust-seco21th2-46-193-64-247.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:24 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:05 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:26 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:56 duko: well ... there are a number of things that you can do ... but I can recommend plating the boiler. 00:17:58 or .. have one package that has all the symbols in it that you want all others to use, an :import-from that package 00:18:35 or :use for that matter. 00:19:05 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:20:12 drewc: ok thanks for that 00:20:22 'plating the boiler' 00:20:42 i'll make sure to give you credit when I use that one 00:22:06 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 00:23:19 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:59 drewc: I've been thinking lately that it would be very nice to have a documentation templating system where you can write your primary documentation text, then put some kind of include statement that will dump documentation of a certain type for a certain symbol in a certain place in that template. Your documentation.lisp file isn't too far from that. 00:25:21 sykopomp: that is pretty much exactly what it will become 00:25:59 automatic documentation generators are great for getting an initial document up to start working with, and writing the documentation by hand (which is what I currently do) means I have to continually copy-paste docstrings as I add them/update them. 00:26:35 and ... if you look at my monads.html, there is a parser tutorial for org mode ... and my documentation.lisp outputs .org syntax ... 00:26:50 hold ... will commit an example 00:27:03 I think I might actually just be lazy and regex my way around the problem :) 00:27:36 that is not lazy, that is taking a long time to do 80% of the solution ;) 00:28:00 a regex solution would be really quick, though D: 00:29:07 a regex solution for what exactly? I would not mind going 'head to head' on this one so I can see the results :) 00:29:21 what's there to go head-to-head on? 00:29:36 I don't really care very much how it's implemented, and I haven't bothered doing it myself (unlike you) 00:30:42 well, to see how easy it is to do a regex vs the simply parser combinators ... it is just on my mind to see how 'easy' regex is compared to what I do :) 00:30:56 a parser combinator would be damn easy, too. 00:32:08 *sykopomp* considers building it on top of HTML-TEMPLATE 00:32:57 eh nm 00:34:04 I kinda wish there was a jinja2/djangotemplate clone for CL. 00:34:39 like, the one i did the long and hard way to parse org-mode outlines for my test suite of monads? it is quite easy! :) 00:35:05 hm? 00:35:49 this is the documentation my generator generates ... A simply text file : 00:35:54 simple* 00:35:56 https://github.com/drewc/drewc.org/blob/master/monad.org 00:36:45 heh .. that actual file : https://raw.github.com/drewc/drewc.org/master/monad.org 00:37:06 where's the template? 00:39:35 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:42 what template? 00:40:05 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:41:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 00:41:51 that was my point, but nevermind 00:42:03 what you have isn't really what I'm looking for after all. 00:43:16 well ... i have a templates/ directory, so simply wondering what template you want to see? 00:44:14 oh, any of them! 00:44:18 but, fwiw, my monads.html does not use any templates ... it is just the standard org-export-as-html 00:45:31 if you look at the source, you can see that it just an org-mode export .. however, the rest of drewc.org is all in one .org file, and uses templates to org-publish it 00:49:26 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 00:51:19 sykopomp: ok, https://github.com/drewc/drewc.org/tree/master/templates are the templates in use for drewc.org 00:52:33 as you can maybe see, the only thing I care about is : (ob:post-title POST) type tages 00:53:59 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:59 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 00:53:59 so I use the same template style for CL things as well, though my parser/using thing has not been released ... but it _is_ pretty easy to parse ... even a regexp could do it :) 00:54:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:55:16 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@99.102.148.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:55:29 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:55:57 k0001_ [~k0001@host189.190-138-114.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:56:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-156-44.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 00:56:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-156-44.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:56:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 00:57:06 mhi^ [~mhi@mhi.sanctioned.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:17 -!- ase [~se@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:16 but, this is not the 'end all be all' of such things of course... it is simply what I do to generate things as quick as i can from text files in org-mode... because that is how i tend to work. But having a drewc.org.org in my source repo rather than the entire site .. well it makes sense to me 00:58:47 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host137.186-125-111.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:02:03 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:43 myx [~myx@pppoe-219-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 01:03:03 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:03:23 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.80.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:07:10 Corvidium [~cosman246@202.183.249.50] has joined #lisp 01:08:58 kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:22 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: good night/dobranoc] 01:12:10 npi [~quassel@bl13-92-77.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:14:29 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-233-189.25-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:15:18 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:18:31 segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-193.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:32 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-189-233.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:39 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:06 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-193.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:25:28 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A6BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:16 -!- npi [~quassel@bl13-92-77.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:26 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BF87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:29:33 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:41:11 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-160-154.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 01:41:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:41:20 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:44:38 Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 01:45:54 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-140-26.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:26 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:46:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-235-234.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 01:46:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-235-234.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 01:46:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 01:47:42 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-4d029e24.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:48:27 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-160-154.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:48:46 sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.69.230] has joined #lisp 01:48:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 01:53:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-099.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:56:52 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@cocytus.blisses.org] has joined #lisp 01:56:52 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@cocytus.blisses.org] has quit [Changing host] 01:56:52 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 01:57:58 does anyone here have experience with setting up a mail service? 01:58:05 I'm using cl-smtp to send emails 01:58:14 and the emails arrive at gmail mailboxes 01:58:38 but they don't arrive at mailboxes on another server 01:59:00 but I know that these other mailboxes are receiving mail because I am able to send mail to them from other locations 01:59:09 I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong 01:59:14 Do you have administrative access on those servers? 01:59:36 no they are spaces on shared-hosting 02:00:09 How is cl-smtp delivering mail for you? 02:00:33 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-131-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:00 Or is it a black box for you? 02:01:31 i call (cl-smtp:send-mail "localhost" "from@localhost.com" to-email "subject" html-string) 02:01:41 it is a black box 02:01:52 but I don't mind reading through the code which is available to me 02:01:53 Are you really saying localhost.com? 02:02:06 yeah 02:02:23 That's almost certainly being rejected. 02:02:37 Most public sites require something legitimate on the other end nowadays. 02:02:59 the server is localhost so I'm not sure I could provide a legitimate @somename.com 02:03:00 Can you give it a from address that in some way matches the site from whence you're sending? 02:03:16 yes I have tried that and was still unable to receive the mail 02:03:19 localhost is a sort of shorthand 02:03:46 You say you can deliver to gmail... You can look at headers there. Mind if I open a private query to you so I can make suggestions? All wildly off-topic for the channel. 02:06:20 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.174.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:06:53 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:53 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:56 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-103-189-233.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:12:20 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 02:13:08 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:15 Duko, alas, I need to do a couple things. I'll try not to disconnect, although I'm adding a couple things to my firewall. I'll check back in five to see if you've returned. 02:17:25 Can I add a special setf function to an instance of a lisp primitive such as a cons cell or string? 02:18:21 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-110-99-107.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:18:46 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-167-25.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 02:18:58 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-167-25.vodafone.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 02:19:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:19:26 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:19:31 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-131-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:19:34 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:20:01 What does that mean? 02:20:03 (setf tmp '(1 2 3 4)) 02:20:33 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 02:20:47 Bike: I want to know if something is changed without recreating my own cons cells and such. 02:20:53 -!- new_one [~peter@50.10.183.158] has left #lisp 02:21:37 you could (defun (setf tracked-car) (nv cons) (record-change nv cons 'car) (setf (car cons) nv)) and so on? 02:21:48 Yes! 02:21:49 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:47 Bike: Is there a way to do this for variables as well? 02:25:12 (defmacro tracked-setq (var val) (once-only (val) `(progn (record-change ,val ',var 'setq) (setq ,var ,val)))) 02:25:41 though that won't work quite as well with symbol macros, i suppose. 02:26:14 Bike: It's better than I had hoped. 02:29:03 segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-208.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:31 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176029341.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:31:54 -!- segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-110-99-107.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:32:07 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:32:26 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:32:39 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:05 If anyone has installed CLinch, I've added a 02:34:05 presentation to the examples. If anyone could 02:34:06 test it, that would be a big help. 02:40:20 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.174.228] has joined #lisp 02:44:02 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:46:42 PCChris_ [~Chris@cpe-65-31-47-32.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:47 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:16 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@202.183.249.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:49:45 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:50:07 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:26 -!- PCChris [~Chris@cpe-65-31-47-32.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:51:38 Corvidium [~cosman246@202.183.249.50] has joined #lisp 02:52:38 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:10 astertronistic [~astertron@ip68-8-238-110.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:15 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:55:56 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:56 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:29 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:30 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has joined #lisp 03:09:38 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:50 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:06 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:28 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:02 -!- PCChris_ [~Chris@cpe-65-31-47-32.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:36 georgy [~georgy@109.227.9.212] has joined #lisp 03:18:38 About Emacs/Slime; if my point is sitting in a defun, how are C-c C-c and C-M-x different? 03:19:50 C-M-x is eval, C-c C-c is compile. 03:20:43 How is eval vs compile different for defun? 03:20:46 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:17 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:20 eval will produce an interpreted function, compilation will produce a compiled function. (unless eval is actually implemented as compilation, like in sbcl or ccl.) 03:22:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:23:28 So compiling or evaluating a defun are identical in sbcl? 03:28:47 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:29:34 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:33:13 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 03:35:22 more or less, yeah. 03:42:32 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:42:36 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-108-73-163-243.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:32 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:43:50 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:55 just read a sentence, the two books in the programmings, one of them is the SCIP (MIT), what's the other one? 03:44:41 sorry, two 'bible' books programmings. 03:46:27 -!- segmond__ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-130-208.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:46:54 the art of computer programming? 03:47:34 wait that's a bunch of books, I guess not 03:47:47 It's one book in several volumes. 03:48:42 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:49:28 oh, I think it is too. 03:53:23 -!- Tril [~tril@unaffiliated/tril] has left #lisp 03:56:02 wws [~billstcla@p-69-195-52-52.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:42 -!- wws [wws@clozure-721921C2.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 03:58:57 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:39 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:59:51 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host189.190-138-114.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:01:37 -!- wws 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joined #lisp 06:33:42 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:34:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iltpgoxefhjoxvwm] has joined #lisp 06:34:52 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iltpgoxefhjoxvwm] has quit [Changing host] 06:34:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:35:07 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-249-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 06:37:38 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:38:52 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 06:40:04 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:36 Gooder``: paip, sicp, lol (both), cltl, on lisp, pcl, successful lisp .... take your pick 06:41:29 Can someone tell me what the #+ prefix means? I have it in a bit of code that I otherwise understand. The exact line is #+sb-thread. 06:41:48 clhs #+ 06:41:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 06:42:04 Thanks, Bike. I should've looked at the hyperspec. 06:43:21 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:44:23 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:32 if I use #+nil, will it evaluate nil as nil, or will it look up "nil" as the name of a feature? 06:44:51 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:05 I've taken to using #+nil as a quick and dirty way of commenting out a long multi-line s-expression 06:45:15 but I'm not sure if it's kosher 06:45:18 it will look up nil as the name of a feature. 06:45:34 Dalek_Baldwin: it will use :nil 06:45:35 luckily for you, enough people do what you do that it's unlikely anyone would define a :nil feature. 06:45:53 Dalek_Baldwin: #+(or) is safe. 06:46:15 ah, that would work 06:46:31 sometimes I write it as something like #+comment-this-out to make it clear 06:47:42 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:48:34 i delete code that i don't need - after i put it on a branch if i feel i might need it again. 06:48:57 luckily for you the MIT NIL (New Implementation of Lisp) project has been dead for almost half a century 06:49:38 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:00:45 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:41 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-131-254.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:03:06 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:03:33 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:51 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:08 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 07:04:10 -!- duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:07:02 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has joined #lisp 07:21:18 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:23:15 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:25:38 marxx [~marxx@109.227.9.212] has joined #lisp 07:26:05 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@10.Red-79-153-125.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:26:36 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 07:27:27 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:27:28 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.219.225] has joined #lisp 07:29:18 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 07:30:31 Corvidium [~cosman246@202.183.249.50] has joined #lisp 07:32:17 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 07:32:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-33-85.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:21 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:a4ca:dd3a:be64:14bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:34:41 how do i set a variable created with defcvar? 07:34:56 axion: iirc normally 07:35:10 though watch out for types 07:38:05 (setf display-width 1920) ··········· 07:38:07 188 Trying to access undefined foreign variable "display_width". 07:38:07 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:38:15 even though it is :int 07:38:34 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.219.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:40:05 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:40:27 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:42 axion: did you load the library? 07:40:56 cffi? 07:40:58 (yes) 07:41:33 -!- typeclassy [~user@ool-ae2ceba4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:29 I create the cvar with (defcvar "display_width" :int) then try to set it with (setf *display-width* 1920) and I get that error. 07:44:00 i think p_l was asking if you'd loaded the foreign library. 07:44:08 yes 07:47:29 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:47:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:47:50 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:49:26 browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.217.237] has joined #lisp 07:53:56 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:32 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:55:41 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:56:29 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-d7b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:12 cfy` [~cfy@122.228.188.108] has joined #lisp 07:58:47 SHODAN [~shozan@c-d7b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:01:07 -!- cfy 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[~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 08:49:12 then dunno 08:49:22 *p_l* goes back to dark world of functional testing 08:58:53 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:00:04 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@118.112.69.230] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:02 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.174.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:11:54 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.174.228] has joined #lisp 09:12:26 ehu [~ehu@109.34.82.95] has joined #lisp 09:13:01 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:13:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:05 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 09:14:46 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 09:18:54 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 09:19:24 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.34.82.95] has 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[~jtza8@105-236-248-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:12:30 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:50 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:27 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 10:17:33 chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has joined #lisp 10:17:41 Hello~ 10:18:42 buildapp in sbcl does not support Windows OS? 10:19:11 i'd be surprised if it did 10:19:19 Oops 10:19:45 It means there is no way to get excutable file in Windows? 10:20:48 chunseoklee: buildapp is just a library, all it does it makes convenient to call save-lisp-and-die with various stuff loaded 10:21:24 chunseoklee: i'm not sure if sbcl on windows can write executable images, but you can certainly write an image and ship image + sbcl.exe 10:22:11 h4ns: i dont want to do in that way. 10:22:41 chunseoklee: maybe you should go for lispworks. it has nice application deployment functionality on windows. 10:22:47 ah 10:23:08 lispworks suppport standalone exe file? 10:23:33 chunseoklee: yes. not the personal edition, though. you'll need to buy a license. 10:23:37 It meet the Common Lisp standard? 10:23:46 chunseoklee: certainly so. meets and exceeds. 10:23:51 Ok 10:24:03 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-222-249-168.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:06 chunseoklee: it also has a cross platform gui toolkit that may come in handy. 10:24:15 oh its great 10:24:30 chunseoklee: and a friendly mailing list for support. here, discussions are mostly about free software, though. 10:24:47 yes 10:24:58 and on linux maybe 10:25:06 chunseoklee: (so you should direct your lispworks specific questions towards their mailing list. ansi common lisp can be discussed here, and open source libraries, too) 10:25:23 Ok 10:25:28 Sorry for that 10:25:52 But I try to resolve the problem in SBCL itself. 10:26:07 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:26:12 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 10:27:16 chunseoklee: cool. that'd certainly be the best way :) 10:27:30 Thank you 10:27:44 currently, I am using emacs in ubuntu 10:27:45 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 10:28:06 I just have to demonstrate something in front of people usgin windows. 10:28:09 that's all/ 10:28:33 "here is how you can generate a 20MB executeable that prints HELLO WORLD" 10:28:42 :D 10:29:15 :) 10:29:23 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 10:29:31 I gotta go for lunch thank you 10:30:10 I wonder if Scott Burson plans to make bountyoss actually work? :) 10:30:14 lol 10:30:19 H4ns: good one 10:30:35 i.e. promote it and... make it... avoid generating links to localhost :D 10:37:33 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:39:04 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.217.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:40:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755f28.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:58 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:47 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:09 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:17 naryl: a good way to find out would be to ask him directly 10:47:54 browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.222.10] has joined #lisp 10:48:05 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:48:43 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755f28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:49:20 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@186.212.191.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:40 SrPx [~SrPx@186.212.191.225] has joined #lisp 10:49:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:49:51 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined 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Yuuhi` mhi^ sbryant pjb slyrus drewc ISF MrWoohoo wormphlegm Kvaks chebastian stardiviner Oddity Amoz peterhil zulu_inuoe edgar-rft abeaumont ragnul Praise brucem quazimodo kirin` DrForr bjorkintosh eli spiderweb setmeaway2 ft EasyAt brendyn sawjig seangrove REPLeffect 15:10:08 -!- names: yrk karswell naryl The_third_man blackwol` Vivitron rvchangue impulse ubii_ mr_vile asvil cmatei karupanerura cyphase CampinSam dan64 JPeterson |3b| SaidinWoT xaxisx chr pareidolia slava vsync tdmackey z0d specbot joshe sepisult1um capisce_ rotty Jabberwockey dfox CrazyEddy gensym_ finnrobi qsun pok clog barik dlind fds oconnore tali713 SeanTAllen pve ecraven newcup jeekl Ralt Euthy` jayne dlowe mstevens sshirokov asedeno_work nicdev reb` dim hohum dsp 15:10:08 -!- names: mjflick fmu copec renard_ dotemacs turbolent Adeon ivan4th sirdancealot7 zbigniew rtoym Posterdati Guest191` p_l grn joast housel djinni` engblom ``Erik ivan cibs ahoops ozzloy s0ber phadthai r126l j_king lusory guther BeLucid_ felideon pavelpenev hugod sellout ezakimak Subfusc nitro_idiot_ ineiros_ cafaro_ cic__ reactormonk tessier_ Mandus srcerer stokachu nowhereman_ Gurragchaa jdz Odin- drdo madnificent gabot terjesb pjb-v jjkola_work Codynyx cataska 15:10:08 -!- names: rvirding_ AntiSpamMeta Natch herbieB flip214_ insomnia` elliottcable schoppenhauer macrobat TristamWrk wchun teiresias em luis [SLB] johs shifty kanru Tordek ianmcorvidae ered ivan\ vert2 Raptum_ ans Patzy freiksenet NimeshNeema PuffTheMagic__ gensym rfgpfeiffer redline6561 deego majuscule yeltzooo Obfuscate guaqua sweet_kid cddr antoszka postfuturist les derrida smithzv Amadiro mikaelj_ tvaalen_ _schulte_ H4ns prip xristos theBlackDragon samebchase ski 15:10:08 -!- names: Fade sytse PECCU otwieracz pchrist yan_ mal_ hpd easye Fiora Khisanth setheus Viaken phrixos pkhuong YokYok quasisane asciilifeform jsnell varjagg yroeht cross jasom confab spacefrogg dRbiG Spaceghostc2c qlkzy wyan aerique fe[nl]ix fasta foom callen KingNato cods acieroid mechanyancat __class__ cnl sigjuice Yamazaki-kun __main__ Nshag df____ Krystof kleppari gf3 derekv maxm- eMBee daimrod tomaw guyal cmbntr arkx felipe blubberdiblub oGMo jrockway 15:10:08 -!- names: antifuchs gemelen rabite cpt_nemo tychoish galdor Borbus adeht scode nuba vhost- zmyrgel spacebat tkd Tristam xrq adicarlo arbscht nightfly_ zxq9 Buglouse minion rking scharan koisoke_ ramus lemoinem 15:10:14 you can even do (graphics-get-display-size 0 (foreign-slot-pointer src-rect 'vc-rect-t 'width) (foreign-slot-pointer src-rect 'vc-rect-t 'height)) 15:10:36 ah ok :) 15:10:46 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:10:58 it looks like osicat is compiled, not I get an error compiling linedit, is not verbose enough 15:11:05 Error while invoking # on 15:11:05 # 15:11:08 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 15:12:02 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6F086.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:13:02 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.76] has joined #lisp 15:14:36 will try to dig deeper, tnx stassats 15:14:52 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:07 bloody ecl! (si:find-foreign-symbol "init_qtgui_Smoke" :default :pointer-void 0) works 15:17:09 (si:find-foreign-symbol (coerce (format nil "init_~A_Smoke" "qtgui") 'base-string) :default :pointer-void 0) doesn't 15:18:07 can't explain that 15:18:19 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 15:22:22 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:23:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:24:33 (concatenate 'string "init_qtgui" "_Smoke") doesn't work either 15:24:52 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:25:05 'base-string, rather 15:25:17 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:25:32 neither does (map 'base-string #'identity "init_qtgui_Smoke") 15:25:43 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 15:27:08 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:27:13 the only explanation is that literal string reader pushes it into some sort of static space 15:31:52 try (si:find-foreign-symbol (read-from-string "\"init_qtgui_Smoke\"") :default :pointer-void 0)? 15:31:59 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.183.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:32:10 it could also be some kind of compiler macro firing (which works) and the out-of-line definition is broken 15:32:15 (si:find-foreign-symbol (concatenate 'base-string "mall" "oc") :default :pointer-void 0) works 15:32:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:32:40 (read-from-string "\"init_qtgui_Smoke\"") works too 15:32:52 sykopomp: How do you manage to make all this awesome stuff? :) 15:32:53 sorry to interrupt, but what package does 'si' refer to? 15:32:56 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:02 I'm talking about sheeple this time. 15:33:19 cornihilio: I think it's ECL's compiler. 15:33:35 naryl: ah, thanks for the clarification. 15:33:55 no, it's not 15:34:02 But looking at stassats's code it looks like FFI. 15:34:16 (my guess, "system-internals") 15:35:45 it's short for "SYSTEM" 15:36:15 well, it was, now it seems to be the main name 15:36:25 the docs say "For instance, the system package has two nicknames sys and si" 15:36:35 now si has two nicknames, sys and system 15:38:31 si:find-foreign-symbol doesn't appear to have compiler macros 15:39:33 and i don't how to report a bug with a simple test-case, because it works for malloc and free 15:39:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-87.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:41:55 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-225.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:42:16 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:08 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:55 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:05 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:24 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:50:01 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:50:23 -!- chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:48 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:53:08 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:54:48 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:56:07 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:58 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:31 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has joined #lisp 15:59:52 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:20 iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has joined #lisp 16:00:42 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-60-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:01:01 mindcruzer [~mindcruze@216.185.74.162] has joined #lisp 16:02:11 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:02:23 and it's non-deterministic, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't 16:03:13 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: lifeform experiment terminated] 16:04:20 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.171] has joined #lisp 16:05:43 -!- mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:58 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 16:06:24 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:36 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 16:06:53 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 16:07:01 (loop repeat 1000 count (handler-case form (error () nil) (:no-error (x) t))) => around 300 16:07:24 i'm completely baffled 16:08:07 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:35 and the error rate depends on the symbol, for example, "strcasecmp" succeeds about 5% of the time 16:12:37 Thra11 [~thrall@46.208.152.134] has joined #lisp 16:17:08 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:27 milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has joined #lisp 16:23:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:23:21 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has joined #lisp 16:25:31 typeclassy [~user@ool-ae2ceba4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:40 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 16:28:08 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 16:30:26 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 16:30:28 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.105.124] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 16:30:52 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:07 SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.105.124] has joined #lisp 16:33:32 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.80.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:37:15 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:37:50 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 16:38:24 kmels [~kmels@95.115.17.30] has joined #lisp 16:39:09 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 16:39:38 part 16:39:40 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 16:40:22 stassats: disable GC? 16:40:35 wait no, it's boehm. 16:40:42 newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has joined #lisp 16:41:35 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:42:56 i found that it sometimes has some garbled data before the null-character 16:43:13 don't think the gc is to blame 16:44:51 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:57 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:49:13 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:16 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:50:22 or maybe it is, but indirectly 16:50:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-101-225.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:55:19 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc03-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:24 eventhorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:59:58 andree117 [~andree117@202.152.202.145] has joined #lisp 17:00:56 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.105.124] has quit [Quit: SrPx] 17:02:05 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:21 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 17:05:29 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:05:30 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755f28.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:14 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:07:08 ISF [~ivan@143.106.24.234] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 -!- andree117 [~andree117@202.152.202.145] has left #lisp 17:15:38 -!- tjasko__ [~Jasko@65.217.244.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:04 pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:28 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.219.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:44 replore [~replore@fl1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 17:18:56 -!- replore [~replore@fl1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:13 Joreji [~thomas@65-099.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:23:18 i guess i have found the bug, it doesn't zero newly allocated strings 17:23:34 (make-sequence 'string 10) => " 17:26:01 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:30 hmm "initial-element---an object. The default is implementation-dependent. " | "The consequences are unspecified if initial-element is not an object which can be stored in the resulting sequence. " 17:30:09 so I guess that any make-sequence caller not specifying a compatible element type is unportable? 17:30:54 err compatible initial element 17:31:43 I'd have to read the whole thing again but I would expect an implementation-dependent initial-element suitable for the type. 17:31:51 although an implementation might try for friendliness to use a decent default depending on the type of sequence 17:33:25 phadthai: well, yes, that's a fair result, but it also doesn't set the null-character at the end, causing all kinds of mysterious errors when it's handled on the C side 17:33:43 jeroen_ [~jeroen@546AA313.cm-12-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:33:43 -!- jeroen_ is now known as bulters 17:33:51 pnpu1f [~Moonshado@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:34:23 any pointers here to up to date articles on lisp web-dev? 17:34:54 hmm make-array probably also affected 17:35:02 pointers? Isn't that more of a C thing? 17:35:19 -!- pnpu1f [~Moonshado@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:35:19 pnpu1f [~Moonshado@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 pessoa: ok, the dereferenced kind then :P 17:35:21 Pointers are everywhere. 17:35:50 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:36:29 that also explains why it didn't fail when i passed it literal strings, they were allocated in a different fashion 17:36:44 phadthai: it's portable as long as you don't try to read before writing. 17:36:58 from memory I think that previously spaces were assigned in such strings by default, but I don't remember how long ago 17:37:38 alright, i guess i have enough for a bug-report 17:37:45 stassats: definitely 17:38:12 well, i was planning for a patch, but finding the cause took too much time 17:38:15 pkhuong: ok yes, that makes sense 17:40:21 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 17:40:55 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 17:41:58 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:28 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:44:55 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:37 for anyone interested: https://sourceforge.net/p/ecls/bugs/233/ 17:51:48 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:52:27 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:14 bulters: a few users in #lispweb have a blog/libs/etc 17:53:19 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:53:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:53:57 -!- pnpu1f [~Moonshado@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:56:00 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 17:56:18 axion: thanks! will start monitoring #lispweb as well ;-) 17:56:51 *[6502]* feels a bit depressed 17:56:54 sometimes it seems that nobody uses those less popular implementations, I manage to find bugs each time i try them 17:57:13 <[6502]> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13900895/how-to-explicitly-use-a-standard-function 17:57:46 [6502]: what is this link? 17:58:14 <[6502]> stassats: an SO question about a problem with iterate package in common lisp 17:58:21 and? 17:59:11 <[6502]> stassats: what depresses me is that the code is equivalent to [line_to_image(map(int, L.split(","))) for L in open(file)] of Python, without any extra library 17:59:41 <[6502]> stassats: I didn't know CL doesn't have a string split utility 18:00:24 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:46 i don't see a problem here 18:00:54 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:01:06 <[6502]> stassats: yes... and this is the real problem 18:01:12 <[6502]> stassats: that you don't see a problem 18:01:24 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:01:30 no, it's another one of your imaginary problems 18:01:31 but there are enough libraries for splitting strings and for regex 18:01:37 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@mhi.sanctioned.net] has left #lisp 18:01:38 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 18:01:48 exactly 18:02:10 [6502]: you can use python. problem solved. 18:03:02 <[6502]> stassats: another problem is iterate... i hope that's a bad use case because if that code it's better that what could be written without it then things are worse than I'd suppose 18:03:31 i don't use iterate 18:03:38 [6502]: you are free to ignore iterate, as i do. 18:03:51 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-004-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:09 or maybe you're using iterate wrong. I trust humans to make just anything look bad. 18:04:27 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:04:35 <[6502]> pkhuong: that's my hope too (btw that code is not mine) 18:05:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-099.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:06:06 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:06:07 Jasko [~Jasko@65.217.244.130] has joined #lisp 18:06:22 I still refuse toi use loop. It looks too algolish. 18:06:27 Joreji [~thomas@65-099.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:11 if by too algolish you mean too useful, then yes 18:08:15 "i refuse too" "it looks too" nuff said. 18:08:24 <[6502]> pessoa: I don't use loop either... but being a good blub is important. Reading a file line by line passing vectors of numbers separated by commas to a function cannot require 20 lines of code, it's outrageous 18:09:15 did somebody say Perl? 18:09:50 [6502]: does some force you to use lisp or what is this whining and complaining all about? 18:09:54 if it's so outrageous, then use perl, python or whatever suits you. 18:10:18 it's LISP not STRP 18:10:34 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:11:10 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:11:15 if the performance of your program is based on your data being all strings, then your problem is probably not exciting enough. 18:11:24 H4ns: i don't think [6502] does use it 18:11:37 i'm not sure either. 18:11:54 <[6502]> H4ns: in large programs this kind of logically trivial sub-problems happen quite often... should one write a system call to perl to translate them in s-expression and then using READ ? 18:12:09 [6502]: (with-open-file (...) (loop for line = (read-line fd nil nil) while line collect (split-string:split-string line ","))) 18:13:01 tada, a csv parser in one line of CL. 18:13:04 maybe two 18:13:11 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:12 a broken csv parser 18:13:12 if you want to be boring 18:13:15 that is 18:13:16 <[6502]> sykopomp: that's better... i found split-sequence but it's similar 18:13:39 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:15:27 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-72-125.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:03 Perl is not a string processing language. Snobol deserve that title. 18:16:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:16:21 and lisp is not a list processing language 18:17:47 Lisp is a list processing language, as it is homoiconic, representig code as lists. 18:18:10 there are no lists in CL 18:18:12 :( 18:18:55 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:19:05 ASau [~user@46.115.122.115] has joined #lisp 18:19:06 pessoa: that the code of lisp is composed of list doesn't make any difference 18:19:55 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@55.156-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:19:58 or is there a hash-table-processing language? 18:20:34 Lua 18:20:42 maybe javascript 18:22:42 <[6502]> I'm not sure I like the fact that lists are an illusion in CL and not a first class object 18:23:40 i know right. :( 18:23:57 what an illusion 18:24:21 myx [~myx@pppoe-219-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:24:25 <[6502]> newbie_coder: there is no list... there are only cons cells 18:24:38 <[6502]> newbie_coder: push is a macro, it cannot be a function 18:24:54 it can, the problem is NIL 18:25:07 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 18:26:16 <[6502]> stassats: therefore it can't 18:26:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:44 big fucking deal 18:26:51 [6502]: Free your mind. 18:27:04 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:27:04 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:27:24 [6502]: how about you go write some programs instead and lay off your petty complains? 18:27:33 frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 18:27:52 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:27:52 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:28:43 18:08:23 < [6502]> pessoa: I don't use loop either... but being a good blub is important. Reading a file line by line passing vectors of numbers separated by commas to a function cannot require 20 lines of code, it's outrageous 18:28:48 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:00 I bet this can be done by 3 lines max. 18:29:23 xmj, sykopomp already showed a one liner 18:29:48 oh. didn't see that one 18:30:23 [6502]: are you reading a csv file? 18:30:39 <[6502]> xmj: no i'm just complaining, as usual 18:30:42 [6502] I don't like the fact that threads and lambda are broken in python but I'm not whining about it in ##python 18:30:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:31:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:31:20 <[6502]> kennyd: I did instead... and while eating a pizza with Guido :-D 18:31:50 rsense would be cool if it could actually provide type inference like it sounds like they're planning on, but that's probably a long way off if it ever lands Python has still got lambdas? Did not GvR want to get rid of them until 3.0? 18:32:06 <[6502]> stassats: did you se the video I made about my toy IDE? 18:32:12 nope 18:32:30 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@55.156-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:32:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:32:56 kennyd: Where are you supposed to whine about it, then? 18:32:58 <[6502]> stassats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2o5VKdQqZ4 18:33:52 so, it's not in Common Lisp? 18:33:55 gridaphobe [~user@74.68.151.24] has joined #lisp 18:34:10 so, it\s offtopic ? 18:34:54 Euthy`: you should whine about it to your drunk friend in a bar. it has little use 18:34:54 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:34:54 pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:34:54 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 18:35:39 oh my, i wish i didn't read its description 18:35:48 "There can be both a function and a macro with the same name." still makes my blood boil 18:35:48 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 18:36:13 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 18:37:22 <[6502]> stassats: quite close to CL (lisp-2, defmacro without forced hygiene, symbol macros, reader macros, packages, looping constructs, non-local control transfer, dynamic and lexical bindings and many other things are quite similar to CL) 18:37:57 <[6502]> stassats: it's the same as compiler macros, what's wrong with it? 18:38:07 it's not the same 18:39:24 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.218.28] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:40:28 <[6502]> stassats: in common lisp you can have a function and a (compiler) macro with the same name 18:41:00 because compiler macros don't alter semantics... 18:41:13 and can be disregarded by the compiler 18:41:25 it's just an optimization tool 18:43:01 <[6502]> Bike: I only altered the semantic for relational operators, in any other case the function and the macro are equivalent (except for performance) 18:43:27 so... you don't have regular macros? 18:43:41 <[6502]> Bike: I liked the idea that (< (f) (g) (h)) doesn't call (h) unless needed 18:43:49 that's lazy evaluation 18:43:54 -!- prip [~foo@host182-128-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:57 that's madness 18:43:57 prip_ [~foo@host182-128-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:44:01 which is orthogonal 18:44:17 <[6502]> Bike: i have macros... but in the code i write when there are both a macro and a function with the same name the semantic is the same (with that exception) 18:44:26 so they're notthe same. 18:45:55 i wouldn't mind if CL just didn't have compiler-macros 18:46:11 why? 18:46:35 i prefer using inline and relying on good compilers to do optimize 18:46:48 <[6502]> Bike: no... but jury is still out about them. For example I added a warning when evaluating (< (f)) as a macro (returns true without calling the function) 18:47:07 and compiler-macros are limited in use to literally passed arguments anyway, so even if you want to use them, their use is limited 18:47:21 [6502]: i think i'm with stassats with respect to your language 18:47:45 lol changing the semantics of < is batty 18:48:21 sykopomp: well, javascript is already crazy enough with its duck typing, so it wouldn't hurt that much 18:48:52 <[6502]> Bike: may be I'll remove that asymmetry (i found n-ary comparision are not that frequent anyway). One case in which they're useful is for range checking, but often the check should be 0 <= x < y (with different operators) so it's not perfect for that either 18:50:30 <[6502]> sykopomp: in JsLisp (<= x y z) is equivalent to (and (<= x y) (<= y z)) but evaluating y only once. Is that crazy? 18:51:20 why would it? 18:51:25 things like '5' + 3 => 53, but '5' - 3 => 2, you can't go crazier than that 18:51:51 [6502]: yes, because <= is a function. You're fucking with function semantics. 18:52:12 you're arbitrarily replacing pretty core semantics, and that's bound to cause trouble. 18:52:28 stassats: that's deprecated stuff. 18:52:31 <[6502]> stassats: yeah that's something truly horrible about JS, and I was forced to accept it to avoid code to crawl instead of running 18:53:08 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.24.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:53:17 rryoumaa [~user@ip68-226-110-213.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:36 tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:16 <[6502]> xmj: in JsLisp z is not evaluated in (<= x y z) if the result is known to be false after looking at x and y. That's why it's crazy in their opinion. 18:54:21 this might be a silly question, but if there is there a non-destructive version of setf? for example, is there something like a (returnf (cdr x) 3)? 18:54:22 it would be crazy to have to evaluate y twice, if that comes with side effects. 18:55:09 rryoumaa: shiftf? 18:55:10 rryoumaa: (cons (car x) 3) 18:55:18 <[6502]> rryoumaa: something like (cons (car x) 3) ? 18:55:25 maybe? the question doesn't make much sense, though 18:55:29 rryoumaa: it's not an idiom in CL. Some libraries have that sort of thing, but mostly you just invoke the constructor directly. 18:55:33 Bike: yes, like that, except as a generalized variable type thing 18:55:37 Or shallow copy/mutate. 18:56:01 too bad 18:56:13 ISF [~ivan@143.106.24.234] has joined #lisp 18:56:52 -!- gridaphobe [~user@74.68.151.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:56:58 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:57:21 *rryoumaa* makes a retroactive feature request to the ansi cl committee of long ago 18:57:47 well, that doesn't appear like a very useful feature 18:57:50 rryoumaa: you could write a library to do that. 18:57:58 <[6502]> rryoumaa: you can submit it for next version of CL 18:57:58 i suppose letf does that 18:58:00 stassats: it depends on the programming style. 18:58:07 will there be another version? seriously? 18:58:16 <[6502]> rryoumaa: i was kidding 18:58:28 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-txzhcepjkwwtmsku] has joined #lisp 18:58:38 would have been a huge surprise 18:59:51 <[6502]> rryoumaa: that's the biggest drawback of CL... it's stable, saecula saeculorum 19:00:24 pkhuong: maybe with a better support for immutable data-structures, but just copying things all the time doesn't seem that useful 19:00:28 yeah, i figured that anything new would pretty much show up in clojure (or scheme or whatever else) 19:01:40 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:49 stassats: i'd consider it useful, even if it is inefficient 19:03:07 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:03:08 <[6502]> dinner time... l8r guys 19:03:14 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:04:03 anyway, thanks for answer 19:04:04 -!- rryoumaa [~user@ip68-226-110-213.ph.ph.cox.net] has left #lisp 19:04:16 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclh162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:04:32 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:05:17 I'm trying to figure out if bindings of optional variables are automatically evaluated 19:05:28 no they're not 19:05:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.116.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:05:35 a simple test will find out 19:05:44 I was trying (defun a (b &optional (c (+ 1 1))) (format t "b: ~A, c: ~A~%" b 'c)) but that doesn't work 19:05:52 (defun foo (&optional (x (error "foo"))) x) 19:05:57 how are bindings evaluated? 19:06:07 but they are evaluated for macros, right? 19:06:25 cornihilio, what the hell are you talking about? 19:06:33 cornihilio: why did you quote c... 19:06:44 Fare: thanks for the kind words re. POIU, by the way ^.^ 19:07:09 looking back at it, it is a terrible mess, but it kiiiinda worked, which makes me incredibly proud (: 19:07:25 http://i.imgur.com/UH0Ll.png from on lisp p. 248 19:07:35 having to redo it, piece by piece, gave me a measure of what you did the first time around 19:07:49 it's much cleaner now 19:07:50 yeah, I imagine! 19:08:01 cleaning it up must have been a lot of work (: 19:08:10 it was :-/ 19:08:19 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:19 but hopefully worth it (: 19:08:19 but it really helped make asdf better, too 19:08:21 cornihilio: that doesn't really explain anything 19:08:22 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:08:31 only if you care about asdf :-/ 19:08:31 that's good to hear (: 19:08:35 aw 19:08:50 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 19:09:19 cornihilio: are you asking whether the default values for optional parameters are evaluated? 19:09:29 they are evaluated if no argument is passed for that parameter 19:09:37 that's true for both defmacro and defun 19:09:49 the clear-db function doesn't quote the optional value to be binding, and the defmacro db-query does 19:10:37 cornihilio: that's so the symbol *default-db* will go into the expansion 19:10:37 I'm sorry to be confusing, I meant I don't get why for functions there is (defmacro db-query (key &optional (db '*default-db*)) and macros (defun db-push (key val &optional (db *default-db*)) 19:10:45 the macro quotes because it wants a symbol, not the value of *default-db* 19:11:15 the macro is expanded at compile-time, so you don't want to evaluate it compile-time and only once 19:11:21 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:58 ah... okay. that makes a lot more sense now. 19:12:35 although db-query shouldn't be a macro at all 19:13:37 if its definition is like presented, maybe it's modified later to warrant macroness 19:13:39 why not? it's just an alias 19:13:58 because a function can be used in the same way 19:14:06 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 19:14:15 macros shouldn't be used where functions can do 19:14:17 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:14:47 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has joined #lisp 19:15:29 only use macros when there is another benefit, like shifting a computation to compile time, right? 19:15:33 -!- pnpuff [~Eternit9a@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:15:46 well, like, when functions cannot be used 19:15:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:15:55 macros can be more efficient than equivalent functions 19:16:19 that is a terrible reason to use macros 19:16:30 like modifying lexical environment 19:16:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:16:51 pessoa: there's INLINE 19:17:03 or compiler macros. 19:17:04 and compiler-macros, if you really want them 19:17:42 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:48 are anaphoric macros used often in cl? 19:17:51 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:01 by whom? 19:18:07 i never use them 19:18:08 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has joined #lisp 19:18:22 some people swear by them 19:18:29 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:45 I don't know, just curious. They seem pretty useful, if I had more faith in my ability to use them. 19:18:46 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has joined #lisp 19:18:58 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 19:22:07 paul grahan uses anaphoric macros in On Lisp 19:22:14 Graham 19:22:24 that's why cornihilio is asking, i presume 19:22:39 use whatever makes your logic easier to follow. if anaphoric macros do that, then use them 19:23:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:08 what are anaphoric macros? :| 19:23:17 Qworkescence: easier for whom? i'm always baffled by those sudden "it" variables 19:23:28 frx: (awhen (foo) (1+ it)) 19:23:33 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:23:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphoric_macro 19:23:38 Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:46 it is foo? 19:23:54 the result 19:24:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:24:38 (ahwen (foo) (1+ it)) expands to (let ((it (foo))) (when it (1+ it))) or so 19:24:38 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:39 i use IT in loop, though, because it can be only at the top level and is close to the condition 19:24:42 no confusion 19:24:58 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has joined #lisp 19:24:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:30 stassats: To the author I guess. I prefer WHEN-LET myself. 19:25:52 Qworkescence: then it's no better then let + when, which i prefer 19:25:56 Having scheme-style => in cond would be nice. 19:26:43 replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 19:28:03 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-hdtgmvpnsbgplswt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28:20 what about amvwhen? 19:28:21 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:28:43 with it, it1, it2 19:28:56 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:31:08 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:31:21 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:33:10 another way: (handler-case (or nil (signal 'anophara)) (:no-error (result) (1+ result)) (anophara ())) 19:33:56 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 19:34:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:55 OR erases multiple-values benefits, though 19:35:11 -!- spiderweb is now known as bellabartok 19:35:56 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:00 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4574e84c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:24 -!- bellabartok is now known as belabartok 19:39:55 fms [~fms@189.170.63.240] has joined #lisp 19:40:07 -!- fms is now known as ebobby 19:41:36 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:36 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rajxfgyxoionstxw] has joined #lisp 19:43:49 stassats: I'm guessing you're not a fan of alexandria's SEQUENCE-OF-LENGTH-P either, too. 19:44:17 i usually just use 19:44:20 clhs a-i-b-p 19:44:20 array-in-bounds-p: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ar_in_.htm 19:45:01 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs27127210.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to 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[~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:31:10 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@173-15-212-110-BusName-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:31:33 ynniv [~ynniv@173-15-212-110-BusName-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:56 joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.118.111] has joined #lisp 20:34:01 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@184.151.118.111] has quit [Client Quit] 20:35:17 drewc: org.drewc.org would be nicer than drewc.org.org 20:38:06 sigjuice: again, eval and compiling is different in presence of (eval-when (:execute) ) vs. (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ) (and for eval-when forms inside the defun, that are not toplevel forms, it's complex, see the CLHS, it may be the same as :execute or not, I don't remember). 20:40:45 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 20:41:11 minion: memo for Dalek_Baldwin: the expression just after #+ or #- are read in the KEYWORD package. So #+nil is the same as #+:nil or #+keyword:nil (assuming an uppercasing readtable), and it is looking up for :NIL in *features*, not for cl:nil. You can write #+cl:nil to look up for cl:nil. 20:41:11 Remembered. I'll tell Dalek_Baldwin when he/she/it next speaks. 20:43:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:44:58 axion: Try: (macroexpand-1 '(defcvar "display_width" :int)) 20:45:08 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:45:27 Corvidium [~cosman246@202.183.249.50] has joined #lisp 20:46:12 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:30 axion: notice that it defines a symbol-macro, not a special variable. It should not be named with stars; report a bug to cffi, and in the mean time, give an explicit lisp name: (defcvar display-width "display_width" :int) ; you may also want to specify the library. 20:47:22 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:02 pjb: thanks, i made a lot of progress 20:51:13 -!- pessoa [~pessoa@188-195-211-39-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Started wasting time elsewhere] 20:51:36 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 20:51:43 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:49 bulters: up to date articles are posted on http;//planet.lisp.org/ 20:52:56 s/;/:/ sorry. 20:54:02 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:54:10 stassats`: ecl is used notably to compile maxima. 20:55:55 alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:49 minion: memo for [6502]: and sykopomp: the problem is not with lisp reading lines from files, it's from reading csv files instead of sexps files! 20:57:49 Remembered. I'll tell [6502] when he/she/it next speaks. 20:58:10 m| 20:58:47 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:58:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:59:30 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:59:43 minion: memo for [6502]: and sykopomp: (use-package :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file) (setf (sexp-file-contents "/tmp/a.sexp") '((a b 42) (c d 33) (e f 100))) (sexp-file-contents "/tmp/a.sexp") --> ((a b 42) (c d 33) (e f 100)) 20:59:43 Remembered. I'll tell [6502] when he/she/it next speaks. 20:59:57 pjb: whatever man 21:00:09 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:00:14 oh great, the bug i reported is closed as not a bug, one day i'll really stop reporting bugs for all those marginal implementations 21:00:30 haha what 21:00:46 sykopomp: it's because lisp has not lists that it's good at list processing. For the same reason, it's because C has no I/O statement that it is good at I/O. Compare notably C with Pascal which has writeln, write, readln. 21:00:54 looks like juanjo didn't read the whole bug report and what's it about 21:00:56 and even with CL which has also READ and PRINT. 21:01:31 stassats`: busy people. Now you have to write bug reports as news articles. 21:01:42 Perhaps add a picture of a naked woman. 21:02:03 Does anyone know how to read the current optimize settings from the compiler in sbcl? 21:02:17 sb-ext:describe-compiler-policy 21:02:25 thanks. For some reason I couldn't find it. 21:02:27 threaten to egg him in Madrid at ECLM 21:03:32 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-099.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:48 Joreji [~thomas@65-099.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:05:27 pjb: Can you split cesarum into different packages in QL? :) 21:05:43 .file is exactly what I need. Though seems trivial to implement. 21:07:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:36 naryl: no. cesarum is like alexandria. You don't split alexandria in smaller packages. 21:07:51 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-246-78.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:53 naryl: but notice that cesarum is only a small part of :com.informatimago.common-lisp. 21:07:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:08:30 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:08:32 naryl: otherwise it's AGPL3, you can repackage it if you keep it AGPL3, or you can just write your own asd file to load just what you need. 21:08:43 I may accept asd contributions. 21:08:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-189.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:57 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:09:22 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-229-208.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:27 pjb: I just noticed QL downloads ~2MB. Looks like not all of it is cesarum. 21:11:32 stassats`: you can also use compiler macros on calls such as (your:- x x) and other cases were you can simplify the function given the symbolic form of the arguments. 21:12:07 naryl: yes, that's because this system is distributed along with all the other systems. 21:12:10 that discussion is long forgotten 21:12:33 stassats`: i'd just care that your remember this use case for compiler macros ;-) 21:12:45 i just don't use them 21:13:03 pjb: When stassats` thinks he needs a compiler macro he patches sbcl instead. 21:14:15 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:18:37 bloody sourceforge bug-tracker doesn't allow to reopen bugs, now i'll have to hope that being closed won't make it drown 21:18:53 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:19:04 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:19:11 minion: memo for cornihilio: db-query is defined there as a macro, so that it can be used as a place in setf. (setf (db-query :one) 1) would expand to (setf (gethash :one *default-db*) 1). But nowadays it's considered bad style. It would be better to define it as a function, and to add a setter: (defun db-query (key &optional (db *db-default*)) (gethash key db)) (defun (setf db-query) (new-value key &optional (db *db-default*)) (setf 21:19:11 Remembered. I'll tell cornihilio when he/she/it next speaks. 21:19:12 (gethash key db) new-value)) 21:19:19 minion: memo for cornihilio: (gethash key db) new-value)) 21:19:19 Remembered. I'll tell cornihilio when he/she/it next speaks. 21:19:49 stassats`: you should probably discuss it on the erc mail list. 21:20:15 well, that makes them even less visible 21:23:03 stassats`: can you post a link to your bug report? 21:23:15 here? 21:23:36 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:05 if yes, then https://sourceforge.net/p/ecls/bugs/233/ 21:24:12 yes, thx 21:25:12 [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has joined #lisp 21:27:49 so basically, you get to put a zero at the end of the string yourself if you don't want to pass garbage to the loader. Sounds not terribly reasonable 21:27:57 stassats: you could contribute (handler-case (:no-error ..)) to http://lisptips.com, it's not often used. Few people knows it probably. 21:28:54 prxq: "literal strings" are allocated by another code-path, they don't suffer from this 21:29:12 there's no question that it's a bug 21:29:21 stassats: i agree 21:29:56 if it's not fixed, the only workaround is not to use ecl 21:30:23 -!- bitonic [~user@ppp-233-189.25-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:30:51 i just wanted to test whether commonqt could run on ecl, and that happened, took about 2 hours to figure it out 21:31:09 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:15 sohakes [~sohakes@186.207.79.129] has joined #lisp 21:31:21 i guess i know why it has so much bugs, nobody wants to spends hours figuring out things just for a bug-report 21:31:42 stassats: cant you concatenate a string of length one char having only null in it? 21:31:59 i mean, it's gross, but may be a workaround 21:32:11 well, i can patch ecl myself 21:32:44 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:31 stassats: It seems that: (assert (= 10 (length (make-array 10 :element-type 'character)))) (assert (= 10 (length (make-string 10)))) still hold in ecl (x86_64 here). So the problem is visible only when you pass the uninitialized strings to the FFI, right? 21:33:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has joined #lisp 21:33:57 no, when you pass strings constructed programmatically 21:34:19 commonqt fails on (coerce (format nil "init_~A_Smoke" name) 'simple-base-string) 21:34:24 replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 21:35:54 Well, in ECL 12.2.1 I always get the right length. But printing the random string I see some ^@ and a shorter string :-) (Perhaps it has ^H inside). 21:35:55 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:22 well, it's not cl:length, but strlen(3) 21:36:30 which doesn't like it 21:36:44 Yes. You see the bug only when passing the string to FFI. 21:37:12 And since there's no way to set that byte to 0 from lisp, it's indeed a bug to be corrected by the implementation. 21:37:40 there is a way (concatenate 'base-string "ffff" (string #\Null)) 21:37:42 It should be a one line correction. 21:38:04 Well, yes, but it's not too clean. 21:38:46 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:39:44 i have a C enum that does bitshifting, but defcenum does not eval it so i get an error saying (ash 1 16) isn't of the type integer. how can i work around this? 21:40:09 can you paste the code? 21:40:15 sure one sec 21:42:02 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134192 21:42:27 oh, #.(ash 1 16) 21:43:46 ah thanks again 21:47:00 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:20 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:47:21 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:43 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:5890:3ee4:7c:21dc] has joined #lisp 21:51:11 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:13 added a patch https://sourceforge.net/p/ecls/bugs/233/#df2d 21:51:17 it's 1 line indeed 21:52:08 and source forge can't give .diffs a normal mime-type 21:52:27 StephenS [~StephenS@xshellz/founder/StephenS] has joined #lisp 21:52:50 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-24-131-173-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:01 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.161] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:45 Codynyx [~cody@c-24-131-173-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:48 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aclh162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:55:40 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-72-125.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:46 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 21:57:05 and it's fixed in git, hurrah! 22:00:34 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:38 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:01:50 nice 22:02:10 well, now something else stops commonqt 22:04:16 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-72-125.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:53 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@216.185.74.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:05:14 MusangKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-129-252.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 22:07:16 -!- eventhorizon [~asdf@107-200-38-103.lightspeed.tulsok.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:08:04 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:08:46 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:27 -!- Raptum_ is now known as Raptum 22:11:38 -!- Raptum [~cdh473@50.96.154.117] has left #lisp 22:12:48 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:36 stassats: :-) Russian dolls. 22:15:14 -!- two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:15:16 -!- agumonkey [~agu@243.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:16:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:58 replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 22:20:20 tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:20:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-90-241-167-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:21:41 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:21:51 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:54 francogrex [~user@109.134.237.217] has joined #lisp 22:23:36 bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:39 I am trying a new documentation tool (clod) but I get this error while loading "Package SB-INTROSPECT does not exist" 22:23:54 my SBCL is 1.1.2 22:23:58 (require 'sb-introspect) 22:24:10 hmm 22:24:58 yes ok now... that was easy 22:25:11 should have been in :depends-on 22:26:07 I will add it. the src is here: https://bitbucket.org/eeeickythump/clod/ 22:26:11 -!- wyan [~wyan@fnords.info] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:28:09 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:28:16 X1z0r [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:29:04 added it, now goes smooth. I will file a comment to the author 22:29:14 wyan [~wyan@ec2-54-246-94-212.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:24 -!- [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:29:44 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.180.106] has joined #lisp 22:30:22 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.180.106] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:28 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:29 -!- francogrex [~user@109.134.237.217] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:38:51 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:04 two- [~1@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:17 adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:18 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-004-047.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:40:36 antifuchs, your slime git mirror is still not up to date 22:40:44 yes it is )): 22:43:37 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-52-216-19.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 22:45:27 -!- sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:45:58 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:04 Fare: well, changing to #+x86 took just a minute, so no big deal 22:48:21 and i hate backwards compatibility with a developer hat on, and i hate when it's broken when with a user hat on 22:49:23 sirdancealot7 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:50:01 k0001 [~k0001@host239.190-137-205.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:52:28 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:42 yeah, well. 22:53:04 In any case, that was enough backward compatibility to not break that I implemented a compatibility layer. 22:53:17 It's not the full "feature", but it works well enough. 22:53:28 to load sb-rotate-byte 22:53:36 and ironclad, and nibbles 22:53:53 let me guess who wrote sb-rotate-byte 22:54:10 or whom it inspired 22:54:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.60.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:55:04 antifuchs: which mirror are you referring to ? 22:55:11 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:55:23 I meant to say "acknowledged, it's still not working" 22:55:29 anyway, the one on my github 22:55:34 ah, ok 22:56:30 anyway, :if-component-dep-fails strikes me as remarkably poor protocol design. 22:56:48 -!- anthracite [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:07 -!- frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 22:58:49 smazga` [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 22:58:54 -!- smazga` [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:08 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:59:18 replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 22:59:25 -!- replore [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:38 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 22:59:45 dan barlow was more inspired when he objectified operation and component -- THAT was a big win. 22:59:50 belabart` [~user@168-103-123-9.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:05 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-219-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:01:08 -!- belabartok [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:01:27 debugging on ECL is painful, something claims to call gethash with NIL as a hashtable and i have not the slightest idea what based on the backtrace 23:01:45 and gethash is implemented in C, i can't just insert BREAK 23:02:23 *stassats* goes to insert a print statement to each gethash he's using 23:02:29 printf-debugging 23:02:37 can't you get a backtrace? 23:02:38 well, what to print? 23:02:52 to at least know which caller is the culprit? 23:03:12 no, it's really limited 23:03:19 :-( 23:03:43 :b ? 23:03:52 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:04:25 :h ? 23:04:36 i know it's somewhere in initialize-instance, but then, it's a complete mistery 23:05:00 maybe if i knew what the key is 23:05:03 other method is git bissecting the change. 23:05:08 :frs ? 23:05:14 is there a change? 23:05:24 -!- ynniv [~ynniv@173-15-212-110-BusName-Atlanta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ynniv] 23:05:27 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cb67.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:31 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:48 dunno -- what are you debugging? 23:05:50 (shadow 'gethash) 23:06:12 pkhuong: i suspect that it's not my gethash calls 23:06:17 somewhere inside ECL 23:06:50 jonasac [jonasac@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:f8f1] has joined #lisp 23:06:52 stassats, there's one way to know. And the debugger is a bit bare, but not THAT bare, usually. What about SLIME? 23:07:10 well, the same answer 23:08:29 ecl doesn't work with gdb? not that gdb's any fun, but 23:08:43 well, gdb doesn't know about lisp objects much 23:08:57 ecl doesn't just make them C structs? 23:09:56 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host239.190-137-205.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:10:01 well, i guess i can just set a break-pointer on C gethash and see what calls it 23:10:12 -!- belabart` [~user@168-103-123-9.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:10:28 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:13:30 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:46 oGMo: unions, which without some gdb scripts or human effort requires to check the type and then reprint casted to the wanted structure type etc 23:16:37 k0001 [~k0001@host239.190-137-205.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:17:59 stassats: is the debug level 2? If I remember the C code explicitely inserts CL stack frames then which might help for backtraces 23:19:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755f28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:19:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:56 replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 23:21:09 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:31 SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.105.124] has joined #lisp 23:22:11 myx [~myx@pppoe-219-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 23:22:57 myx_ [~myx@pppoe-219-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 23:24:44 -!- SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.105.124] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:23 stassats: you could teach gdb about lisp objects. Somebody did that for Objective-C objects. Why not for ecl lisp objects? it should be easy, gbd can be programmed in lisp like emacs can't it? 23:25:42 -!- replore_ [~replore@FL1-118-109-227-30.kng.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:25:50 Cc: RMS :-) 23:26:58 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-219-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:27:10 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:31:44 -!- kmels [~kmels@95.115.17.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:31:47 SrPx [~SrPx@177.98.105.124] has joined #lisp 23:33:43 -!- adelgado [~TomSawyer@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:36:52 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:37:01 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has joined #lisp 23:37:12 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:29 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:39:13 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:02 -!- adicarlo [adam@66-234-44-144.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has left #lisp 23:41:48 -!- ebobby [~fms@189.170.63.240] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:43:08 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:45:54 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 23:48:08 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:51:11 AeroNotix [~xeno@aclh162.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:53:14 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@189.123.205.243] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:59 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:47 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 23:58:07 -!- milanj [~milanj_@82.117.199.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:24 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]