00:00:24 I'd love to do something about that but find myself at a loss for time (and then there's the emotional fallout that would need dealing with and such things) 00:01:13 would love to see this fixed, but hard to imagine anyone wanting to fix it enough to do it )): 00:02:28 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:03:22 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:41 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:05:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-130-43-233-94.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-130-43-233-94.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:05:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 00:07:58 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-242-4.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:08:01 *drewc* looks at his plate for 2013, and seeing 'fixing SLIME' has room ...hrm... 00:08:41 which part of slime is broken? 00:10:02 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 00:10:05 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:17 AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:11:38 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 00:11:53 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:16 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-243-63.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 00:15:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:15:37 newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has joined #lisp 00:15:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:16:14 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:49 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 00:18:04 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 00:18:47 v0|d: the governance side of things it seems 00:18:56 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:19:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:54 interesting, everybody complains about that. 00:19:59 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:20:02 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:c847:b7b5:7dbe:4ed4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:15 why is governance an issue? what's wrong with making the "superior lisp interaction mode for emacs: reloaded" 00:20:29 slime per se is not broken, but there's a large number (this is subjective), slightly or badly annoyed lisp hackers who would work on slime features if there was a more open body of authority who decides about what goes in. and on top of that, it's still stuck to cvs, while just simply moving to git would help a lot so that people could advertise and cherry pick patches 00:20:51 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.22.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:20:54 superior lisp interaction mode for emacs 2: revenge of son of zmacs 00:21:04 :))) 00:21:31 and i thought the "authority" was the slime-dev mailing list. 00:23:17 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@19.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-176-103.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 00:24:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-176-103.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:24:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 00:24:32 hm why cvs->git doesnt suffice? 00:24:39 Qworkescence: you mean a hostile fork? I did something like that at some point (moved to git and regularly rebased a large number of patches), but then all of a sudden refactoring the single 6k+ lines slime.el into multiple files became less of despised, and erased most of my work. since then I for one don't even pretend to produce quality patches that may go in, merely address slime's most annoying aspects 00:24:48 or was that 10k lines? I don't remember, but I was an idiot bringing it up... 00:25:17 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 00:26:07 v0|d: it helps some. but even with git if many useful patches are lying in many separate branches, then people will start to step on each others' toes with every small change... 00:27:02 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-243-63.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:25 maybe you should ask for other's to help you, so you don't do it alone. 00:27:39 and if helmut suddenly rolls back a few base functions to again using 5+ &optional arguments instead of &keys, then... 00:27:55 haha 00:30:46 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:04 newbie_coder: heh... I even got banned from slime-devel almost for bringing these up 3-4 years ago... helmut is the one who decides alone, and there wasn't enough frustration to back me up, so I shut up and wrote down slime as something craved in stone... 00:31:15 heh ... I hate &optional so much that I have only recently started using it again ... It is like a few things in CL ... really really terrible for most cases ... but when it is used properly, cannot be beat! 00:32:20 what do you guys use .lisp or .cl? 00:32:21 drewc, like in what case is it very useful 00:32:29 drewc: what I refer to was in elisp though, but I agree. and in my world no amount of emacs backtrace ugliness can justify 5+ &optionals... :) 00:32:31 now, heh ... I use it all the time, and likely do not hate it per se, but the usual &optional + &key or &rest thing 00:32:32 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:32:35 .lisp is more conventional, lodenrogue. 00:32:57 thanks Bike 00:35:07 Qworkescence: well, I use it now for parametric constructors all the time 00:35:35 *attila_lendvai* decides to not waste more time on slime, not even in this meta sense, so waves and goes to sleep... 00:36:08 PuercoPop [~user@190.233.220.217] has joined #lisp 00:36:15 which likely does not make sense here, because I am really talking about interface passing style and the maker of an interface ... hmm 00:36:25 attila_lendvai: gnight :) 00:36:48 Qworkescence: http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html#sec-4 00:37:29 ok how do I get slime and connect that with my lisp implementation? 00:37:48 lodenrogue: try just getting quicklisp-slime-helper from quicklisp. 00:37:53 lodenrogue: are you using quicklisp? 00:38:07 No. I just downloaded GNU CLips 00:38:12 CLisp* 00:38:14 pyx [~pyx@108.162.178.78] has joined #lisp 00:38:44 and on linux? 00:38:50 lodenrogue: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 00:38:53 GNU/Linux yes 00:38:54 -!- Gooder``` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:54 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:38:55 oh well, i don't use slime, sooooo 00:39:50 thanks bike 00:39:56 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:40:27 lodenrogue: http://www.sbcl.org/ http://www.quicklisp.org/beta, and http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/ for the docs 00:40:42 i live in the repl, then i dribble, ed, apropos, and ed throws me into vi which loads slimv but i rarely use it's features 00:41:19 newbie_coder: your nickname is not lying? :P 00:42:00 drewc: is SBCL the implementation? 00:42:32 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.22.198] has joined #lisp 00:42:36 sbcl is a lisp implementation, like clisp is. some people prefer the former, some prefer the latter 00:42:52 I got the GNU recommended one. 00:43:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:10 they both work with slime and quicklisp. 00:43:36 so once I have quicklisp downloaded what do I do? 00:44:15 lodenrogue: yes, though for a beginner I have heard that CLISP is better ... SBCL is .. well look at supported platforms on the slime page! it is kind of cort of in order 00:44:53 No idea how to install quicklisp 00:45:08 "To get started with the Quicklisp beta, download and load http://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp" 00:45:08 the quicklisp page has instructions. 00:45:26 yes but i dont understand the instructions. 00:45:32 it says load it 00:45:34 load it where? 00:45:41 clhs load 00:45:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 00:45:44 lodenrogue: download quicklisp.lisp, and in clisp enter (load "quicklisp.lisp") 00:45:51 ah ok 00:46:35 Orii [~user1@pool-74-99-174-165.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:28 how do i kill remote running processes i started over swank? 00:47:30 ok its installed! 00:47:53 now I need to install slime? 00:48:00 do you have emacs already? 00:48:05 yes 00:48:21 (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 00:48:29 I have a mac yes. 00:48:36 (lol just kidding I know what you meant) 00:48:54 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ <-- tells you all 00:49:12 but how do I use it inside of emacs? 00:49:30 wicked_shell: ,sayonara 00:49:35 "quicklisp-slime-helper will create a file you can load in Emacs that configures the right load-path for loading Quicklisp's installation of SLIME." 00:49:40 pjb: o/ 00:49:41 once you load the helper, you can do "M-x slime" in emacs. 00:49:50 oh ok 00:50:00 pjb: how do i kill running processes in sbcl? ^^ 00:50:10 wicked_shell: ,sayonara 00:50:26 from the slime buffer is how you kill the process running swank. 00:50:36 ok 00:50:39 lemme try 00:51:22 (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") isnt working 00:51:49 Do i have to download it first? 00:51:54 "isn't working" how? 00:52:06 I type that and it gives me an error 00:52:15 drewcpaste: url? 00:52:17 http://paste.lisp.org/ 00:52:24 You're going to need to be more specific if you want help... 00:52:48 lisppaste: url? 00:53:05 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 00:53:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134143 00:54:06 thats the error I'm getting 00:54:49 did you actually load quicklisp? 00:54:52 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 00:54:56 yes 00:55:07 (quicklisp-quickstart:install) ? 00:55:10 well, you didn't follow the instructions correctly, because it's not loaded. 00:55:34 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:55:41 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@195.65-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 00:56:02 pjb that didn't work, the buffer for hunchentooth isnt even there 00:56:22 http://pastebin.com/5DnKtGZM 00:56:39 heya anyone here able to help me install ecl on android? 00:56:47 or at least point me to the right direction? 00:56:51 To continue with installation, evaluate: (quicklisp-quickstart:install) 00:56:52 lodenrogue: it says «To continue with installation, evaluate: (quicklisp-quickstart:install)» right there. 00:56:52 i started a remote screen and started sbcl in there an swank inside it, but i started the server before on main system 00:56:56 and you didn't do that. 00:57:06 I did do that before 00:57:39 ah whatever, i'll just restart the node *grin 00:57:56 http://pastebin.com/Pq85gsPH 00:58:04 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:58:27 ok I got it 00:58:29 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:58:33 had to do :R1 00:59:34 so how does that work, if i start an sbcl instance in linux it just lives on untill killed? how do i run stuff permanently in the repl? 01:00:07 lodenrogue: "To load Quicklisp every time you start Lisp, use: (ql:add-to-init-file)" please read the web page 01:00:29 Sorry drewc I'm retarded. I apologize 01:02:08 wicked_shell: screen, tmux, detachtty, runit 01:02:36 thx 01:02:54 or: the sbcl instance is a process, and things you do in that process need the process to be running or they will not be done 01:03:31 so i guess screen -> swank -> remote through slime would do? 01:04:58 i can recommend tmux rather than screen, but yes, I have a number of instances that are like that. 01:04:59 ok it's telling me to add something to ~/.emacs. Not sure how to do that. 01:05:00 Yes. 01:05:17 wicked_shell: you can launch an application in the background with nohup 01:05:19 why tmux? 01:05:44 wicked_shell: and in that case, ,sayonara doesn't kill sbcl, You can use (sb-ext:quit) to quit sbcl. 01:06:03 lodenrogue: you don't know how to edit a file? 01:06:06 pbj: ah, i have to write that down ^~ 01:06:12 *madnificent* uses detachtty for its simplicity 01:06:15 Ive never used emacs pjb 01:06:21 so that kills everything in this instance right? 01:06:31 lodenrogue: Type in emacs control-h t 01:06:40 lodenrogue: this will give you the basics of emacs us. 01:06:42 wicked_shell: well, C-a for one! but beyond that, it like it a lot better for other reasons 01:07:04 im an emacs noob, what does C-a do? 01:07:07 madnificent: I used to use detachtty all the time 01:07:07 lodenrogue: to edit a file in emacs, type: C-x C-f the/path/to/the/file RET 01:07:22 wicked_shell: to know that type C-h k C-a 01:07:37 ok ^^ 01:08:38 I'm so confused guys 01:08:58 it just gives me the emacs info screen? 01:09:48 ah i got it know 01:09:50 it says I need to type this: (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) 01:09:51 ;; Replace "sbcl" with the path to your implementation 01:09:51 (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl") into ~/.emacs 01:10:25 well, do it 01:10:33 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:37 Where do i find .emacs? 01:10:42 in your ~ 01:10:46 oh, are you on windows. 01:10:50 ah 01:10:55 hmm no idea then 01:10:55 no I am on linux 01:10:57 lodenrogue: make the file if it doesn't exist 01:11:00 GNU/Linux sorry 01:11:10 lodenrogue: oh. well, then it's right where it said, ~/.emacs 01:11:28 oh, if you haven't used emacs before the file won't be there yet, so just write it, yeah. 01:11:29 So i just add a text file that says that into that folder? 01:11:55 file, not folder, but yes 01:12:06 lodenrogue: .emacs is the filename, not a folder name. but you paste the contents in that file, yes. don't start using openoffice or anything for it, just plain text 01:12:09 when emacs starts, it will look for a file called ".emacs" in your homedir to configure itself. so that's where you want quicklisp to start. 01:12:26 ok I understand 01:12:52 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:13:56 now how do i know the path to CLisp? 01:14:16 whereis clisp? 01:14:17 whereis clisp 01:14:21 ok 01:14:28 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:14:52 lodenrogue: under linux, i'd argue SBCL might be a wiser choice though. 01:15:14 I was recommended this one by the GNU community 01:15:16 lodenrogue: you have been pointed to http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ before, iirc 01:15:20 you probably don't need the full path to clisp. 01:15:28 have you not used linux much before this? 01:15:37 lodenrogue: that's because the GNU community is so self-centered that they fail to realize that other options exist. 01:16:04 Well is SBCL under a free license? 01:16:48 lodenrogue: it comes with a much freeer license than clisp's GPL. Clozure Common Lisp (short for CCL) does too. 01:16:49 http://www.sbcl.org/history.html 01:19:01 well i already have clisp installed. What's the difference between them? 01:20:18 for your sake? sbcl is recommended by others here. 01:20:28 you'll run into much less edge-cases with libraries you're trying to use. some don't work on clisp. plus, as more of #lisp uses it, you'll find help more easily. 01:20:43 ok 01:22:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has joined #lisp 01:24:36 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:25:17 lodenrogue: sbcl compiled code will run much faster than similar code on clisp. It also seems to be the most widely used implementation, which means things are often better tested on it. 01:26:10 think of it as the internet explorer of common lisp 01:26:11 *madnificent* ducks 01:26:29 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:27:16 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:29:39 ok so once I installed sbcl, quicklisp, and slime how do I access the editor inside emacs? 01:29:49 M-x slime 01:30:01 what is ? 01:30:12 enter key 01:30:14 it is teh closest i could get to telling you you actually had to press the return key 01:30:34 ok nothing happened 01:31:02 'nothing' being 01:31:11 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 01:31:11 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:21 (M being meta, probably alt or something) 01:31:23 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 01:31:30 it said specified program for new process is a directory 01:32:27 lodenrogue: what have you written is the string argument to (setq inferior-lisp-program "this-is-it") 01:32:42 s/to/in/ 01:32:53 huh? 01:33:25 lodenrogue: you have read the page on mohij.org, right? 01:33:36 no 01:33:41 I feel so useless. 01:33:46 Maybe this isnt for me. 01:33:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 01:34:13 well, read it :) it's a good guide. if something on that doesn't work on linux, say what step got you stuck and what you get as a result and why you think that that result is not to be expected. 01:34:18 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 01:34:21 ok 01:34:38 ASau` [~user@46.115.91.56] has joined #lisp 01:34:38 lodenrogue: it's kind of useless to spend time writing the same thing as what's in there (especially as it's a good post) 01:36:14 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@195.65-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:36:57 I got it 01:38:09 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.114.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:38:45 cfy 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[~user1@pool-98-111-113-22.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:22 riverc4c [~grive@pool-108-41-243-181.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:31 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:40 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 02:18:24 segv-_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-151-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:50 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-64-55.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:21:38 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-172-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:21:40 -!- segv-_ is now known as segv- 02:25:37 whistlewright [~user@184.79.163.25] has joined #lisp 02:30:16 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:20 -!- riverc4c [~grive@pool-108-41-243-181.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:35:06 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:35:33 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:35:51 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.40.19] has joined #lisp 02:36:06 cfy` [~cfy@218.75.27.171] has joined #lisp 02:36:39 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36:45 clhs #* 02:36:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhd.htm 02:40:34 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:42:29 -!- whistlewright [~user@184.79.163.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:42:45 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 02:45:15 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:47:26 -!- lusory [~lusory@bb42-60-31-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:47:34 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:14 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:53 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 02:53:44 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:54:31 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 02:54:43 -!- dnolen [user@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qidxvwkjomqngvpo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:58:05 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:20 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:03:41 -!- kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:45 I'd like announce that I've released the CLinch 3D Graphics Engine on github. 03:03:47 https://github.com/BradWBeer/CLinch 03:04:46 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:19 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping 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#lisp 04:24:49 -!- lavois [~quassel@cpe-075-189-234-187.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:25:10 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:10 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@212.54-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 04:26:44 -!- felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:27:42 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:44 felideon [~felideon@199.241.28.84] has joined #lisp 04:29:31 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 04:29:51 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.150.1.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:30:09 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:35:05 zulu_inuoe [~zulu_inuo@184.89.111.53] has joined #lisp 04:35:15 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:41 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:53:12 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:01:27 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 05:01:36 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:31 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:48 in 'on lisp' pg says: cl has a few 'inefficient but convenient features like property lists, keyword parameters, and, for that matter, lists.' 05:03:55 what makes keyword parameters inefficient? 05:04:33 cornihilio: try implementing them. 05:05:08 or at least think about how it has to work. 05:05:39 -!- pyx [~pyx@108.162.178.78] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 05:06:32 imagine you are to give out 358 candies to everyone in #lisp right now, imagine you are told to start from top of your userlist to bottom, very easy 05:07:18 imagine you are to give out 358 candies possibly all different to each specific user in #lisp, and well, you have to call us out by name, find us, and give it to us. how efficient will that be. that's keyword parameters for you 05:07:54 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:01 but the question tho, is, is it inefficient enough to really matter? probably not. 05:08:33 also keep in mind allow-other-keys and override semantics. 05:08:38 that's the thing, I can't imagine navigating a list and binding values to be expensive... but I guess it is compared to simpler mathematical functions 05:09:03 what does keyword parameter have in common with property lists, you are finding a location by name 05:09:45 engblom [~user@dsl-83.148.217-102-dynip.ssp.fi] has joined #lisp 05:09:49 -!- engblom [~user@dsl-83.148.217-102-dynip.ssp.fi] has quit [Changing host] 05:09:49 engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 05:10:36 cornihilio: if you have a function (lambda (a b) ...) and call it, the caller just has to put two values in registers and jump. if they're keys, the caller has to put the values in a list, with their key names, and the callee has to handle not only binding, but error detection, allow-other-keys, etc. or figure out some clever way to pretend its doing all that. 05:10:37 well, if you want to compare with C, then you can argue that lists are inefficient, but for lisp. they are as efficient as can be. however the costs can be up. that's why lots of cons operations can become very expensive for your program. 05:10:51 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 05:11:05 cornihilio: that said, segmond's right, it's probably not that major an efficiency concern. premature microoptimization is the root of all evil, etc 05:12:11 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:12:20 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:12:26 well, thank you guys for taking the time to explain that. that makes a lot more sense to me now. 05:12:31 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:02 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.178.62] has joined #lisp 05:14:20 agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:31 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:18 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 05:21:30 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@212.54-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:32:24 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 05:34:02 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34:42 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:34:49 dank [bd81e2b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.129.226.182] has joined #lisp 05:42:40 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-50-132-3-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:44:49 -!- pirateking-_- 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joined #lisp 06:22:13 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:28:04 cornihilio: The problem is that nowadays, processors are memory bound: as long as the data is in cache, it doesn't matter if you need to walk a linked list or if you can index a vector, the same inneficient memory accesses will be done or avoided. 06:28:17 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:28:51 cornihilio: we can only notice that linked lists take twice the memory that vectors take. So for small list (argument lists) it doesn't matter, but for big lists it would. 06:30:52 segmond: notice that keywords are argumens like the others: (defun f (&key a b c) (list a b c)) (f (if (zerop (random 2)) :a :b) 42 :c 1) 06:34:59 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 06:38:31 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:42:57 -!- dank [bd81e2b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.129.226.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:44:16 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:45:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:52:26 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:53:23 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 06:54:45 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.22.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:59:58 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:00:51 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:03:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:06:40 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:09:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:10:02 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 07:12:58 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@22.86-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 07:15:10 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:15:50 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:15:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:15:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@85.218.236.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:17:28 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 07:17:28 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 07:17:28 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 07:17:38 Munksgaard [~philip@85.218.236.162] has joined #lisp 07:17:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:21:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-29-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:04 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@85.218.236.162] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:25:48 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:30:10 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 07:30:39 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 07:31:09 k0001_ [~k0001@host27.190-229-160.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:33:36 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 07:33:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 07:33:36 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:33:46 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@22.86-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:33:50 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.216.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:35:08 -!- Guest98121 [~lizzin@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:40:14 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:40:53 -!- gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:41:20 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 07:42:43 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 07:43:00 mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:44:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:45:43 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.146] has joined #lisp 07:46:10 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:50:45 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:51:44 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:54:11 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:d066:73f2:8380:3928] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:57:01 -!- ASau` [~user@46.115.91.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:57:41 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:58:02 shouldn't this line start with a backtick?: http://i.imgur.com/aPJU0.png 07:58:35 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 07:58:41 are you sure it's not? it's sometimes hard to tell them apart, depending on the font... 07:59:59 Bike: I'm pretty sure it's not, especially compared to the one on the ,@(mapcar line 08:00:18 cornihilio: it is a backtick 08:00:27 cornihilio: look at the #'(lambda 08:00:30 xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:45 courier is an awful font. 08:00:59 ah, okay 08:01:11 yeah, the on lisp pdf is giving me headaches... 08:02:01 maybe you can substitute the font by something more legible using your mad pdf editing skillz 08:02:08 not to mention I can't copy paste anything because they are weird unicode characters to emphasize their shape 08:02:28 but boy, that code is awful 08:02:29 H4ns: eh... I'm pretty sure my time is better spent learning cl 08:02:58 make sure that you understand "on lisp" as what it is, a piece of prose and satire 08:02:59 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03:07 pff, harsh 08:03:08 it is definitely not a book full of good advice. 08:03:27 H4ns: ? why do you say that? compared to what other book on cl? 08:03:57 cornihilio: when it comes to advise, both pcl and paip are much better than on lisp 08:04:25 cornihilio: i'm not saying that on lisp is bad, mind you. it is just not something that one should read to find real-world guidance. 08:04:59 that makes it sound bad. 08:05:17 cornihilio: also, keene's book is very good in terms of practial guidance that one can follow. 08:05:29 why is paip better? I'd think that the problem would come from on lisp using old techniques, but paip is pretty old too, right? 08:05:36 cornihilio: you're reading me wrong. 08:05:49 cornihilio: age does not matter, but style and legibility does. 08:06:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:07:03 what do you mean? I am reading on lisp and I am finding certain concepts hard to understand, but I can't tell if that's me or the book. 08:07:22 cornihilio: on lisp is a good source for inspiration. it describes what one could do if one takes lisp to its extremes. reading code that tries to follow on lisp style always makes me cringe, though. and i beg your pardon, IF with no else clause, DO, multiple levels of quasiquoting, that is just crappy code. 08:08:36 hmm... but you issue seems to be mainly with the style, but you think it gives a good explanation of advanced lisp features? or do you think paip is better? 08:08:47 your* 08:09:15 cornihilio: i think paip is better for beginners, because norvig has much better taste than paul graham. 08:09:32 *drewc* does not own on lisp, but owns PAIP and reads it all the time 08:09:41 some of the chapters in PAIP are very good on advanced ideas... I mean, there is that awesome part about writing compilers 08:09:46 drewc: is it an autographed copy, by any chance? 08:09:55 hmm... I think I am going to have to read paip as well then. 08:10:07 H4ns: thank you for sharing your opinion on the matter! 08:10:13 *drewc* says nothing of the sort ;( 08:10:22 drewc: :D 08:10:33 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:12:52 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 08:13:33 paip's definitely worth a read. the main oldness i got out of it was things like OOP-phobia and Explorer disassemblies 08:15:46 What is the full name of paip? 08:15:56 paradigms of artificial intelligence programming. 08:15:58 minion: paip 08:15:58 paip: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/paip 08:16:03 narf 08:17:08 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 08:17:41 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:17:48 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:17:50 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:20:47 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@225.7-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 08:21:08 first 5 lines include the headers? :) 08:23:22 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:24:08 JohnnyL [~chatzilla@ool-457ac90a.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 08:25:09 it's not only about creating compilers. you can do that in any language. but if you can create a proper compiler for a non-trivial problem without writing, let's say, 200 lines of code, that's something 08:25:24 and that's what paip and iirc let over lambda do 08:28:55 Bacteria_ [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:29:43 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:45 -!- Bacteria_ is now known as Bacteria 08:30:06 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ 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[~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:01:06 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:01:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:02:31 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:04:43 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Client Quit] 10:04:47 cizra [~cizra@cl-40.tll-01.ee.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:55 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:05 Hey guys and gals. What did the Lisp 1 of 1960 do if you tried to do a (car 42)? 10:05:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:05:26 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:07:31 cizra: probably a crash, I don't think it did many type checks 10:07:42 BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:54 *cizra* is investigating into the history of type systems 10:07:56 I suppose so too. 10:08:11 It's said to consume 12000 out of total 30000 "memory" (units not specified) 10:08:18 -!- christoph_debian [~user@2001:a60:f01c:0:42::1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:18 Doesn't leave many resources for typechecking 10:08:31 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:08:53 McCarthy's original paper with the source code in it is online 10:08:54 I wonder if somebody could point out at the first Lisp implementations that actually had some sort of runtime type tags? 10:09:30 mal_: McCarthy meant it as a mathematical brain exercise, not a programming language. He didn't believe it could be implemented, until it was. 10:09:44 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:11:25 I know. he also thought M-expressions would be the surface syntax 10:11:45 Erh, back to reading stuff. Thanks! 10:12:50 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:14:15 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-235-228.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:22 cizra: memory unit would be "words", or something like that 10:14:39 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:15:39 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Client Quit] 10:17:36 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:17:39 nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has joined #lisp 10:20:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:24:21 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 10:25:22 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:26:15 -!- cizra [~cizra@cl-40.tll-01.ee.sixxs.net] has left #lisp 10:27:22 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-pyvlpkgjddtoaagg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:27:37 -!- nforgerit 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#lisp 12:36:25 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A1CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:17 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:41:48 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:45:00 jsucsy1 [~JSU@69.38.243.200] has joined #lisp 12:46:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-29-23.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:51:21 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 12:53:06 -!- jil [~vip_7@196.201.80.50] has left #lisp 12:55:41 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:34 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:03 -!- cfy` is now known as cfy 12:58:04 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.171] has quit [Changing host] 12:58:04 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:02:56 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 13:07:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:08:40 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-63-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:09:12 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has joined #lisp 13:11:42 bniels: it wasn't bytes. You described the amount of available memory in "words" that the cpu could address 13:11:50 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-145.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:11:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:11:58 it was sometime before byte-addressable computers became common :) 13:12:09 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 13:12:12 *8-bit-byte addressable, too 13:12:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:13:32 stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has joined #lisp 13:16:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:16:54 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:31 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.138] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:18:35 bitonic [~user@dyn1210-234.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:18:56 hi 13:19:01 it's me again :) 13:19:12 i'm having trouble installing slime 13:19:25 narmi: are you installing it from QuickLisp? 13:19:37 no 13:19:40 sbcl 13:20:19 ah 13:20:21 okay 13:20:23 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ <--- use this, has instructions on getting slime from QL 13:20:27 i think i get what you're saying now 13:20:37 got it 13:20:38 thanks 13:21:45 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:04 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:23:43 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:25:58 narmi [~sabayonus@37.37.221.39] has joined #lisp 13:26:42 how do i add something to ~/.emacs? 13:27:26 -!- mongag [~martin@unaffiliated/mongag] has left #lisp 13:27:34 that's a strange question 13:27:42 how so? 13:28:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:28:20 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-212-175.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:43 narmi: you open it with the editor 13:29:58 C-c C-f ~/.emacs 13:31:13 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host77.190-137-32.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:31:28 it says C-c C-f is undefined 13:31:54 Try C-x C-f , usually it's bound to find-file. 13:32:28 got it 13:32:33 chr: thanks 13:32:50 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:32:54 will the next question be "how do i save it?"? 13:32:58 For many of us, it's only our muscle memory that remembers C-x C-f, our consciousness has long forgotten those bindings. 13:33:10 C-x C-s perhaps? 13:33:15 k0001 [~k0001@host235.190-137-204.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:33:25 C-x C-s runs the command save-buffer 13:33:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:33:55 But hide quick, the channel police are hard on emacs questions in #lisp. 13:34:08 especially such trivial ones 13:34:13 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 13:34:45 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:00 stassats: "Hello world" is usually a difficult program. 13:35:20 in brainfuck, maybe 13:35:34 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@37.37.221.39] has left #lisp 13:35:56 but it just shows the inability to figure simple things on ones own 13:36:46 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6D279.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 13:38:02 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:38:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:43:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:44:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:46:25 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 13:47:47 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host235.190-137-204.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:47:54 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 13:48:39 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:49:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:49:31 which lisp functions and variables are involved in the loading of :use packages ? 13:50:35 none 13:50:43 they are not loaded in any way 13:51:20 and there's no notion of "loading" for packages 13:51:29 ehu [~ehu@31.137.193.106] has joined #lisp 13:51:53 but the function which is involved in :use is 13:51:55 clhs use-package 13:51:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_use_pk.htm 13:54:21 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:54:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 13:55:26 do you know of a common lisp compiler written in javascript? 13:56:15 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:56:20 i don't imagine anyone would want to write it 13:56:53 it's much better tow rite common lisp compilers in common lisp 13:58:06 segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-151-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:53 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.138] has joined #lisp 13:59:02 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:59:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 14:03:39 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 14:03:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:04:34 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.138] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:04:51 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.22.198] has joined #lisp 14:08:25 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:13 stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has joined #lisp 14:09:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 14:13:20 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:15:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 14:15:09 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.178.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:16:22 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.245.173] has joined #lisp 14:16:36 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.245.173] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:49 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:26 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:17:56 frx [~gabk@31.45.128.121] has joined #lisp 14:19:12 or javascript compilers in common lisp 14:19:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:20:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 14:22:03 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:23:16 changxue [~changxue@110.189.203.98] has joined #lisp 14:23:32 hello 14:24:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:25:13 -!- changxue [~changxue@110.189.203.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:19 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.138] has joined #lisp 14:25:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 14:25:39 got the repl up and running. thanks guys! :) 14:25:44 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.138] has quit [Client Quit] 14:26:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 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connection] 15:12:57 AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:14:22 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:16:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:17:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 15:19:15 xecycle [~user@2001:da8:8000:e104:ca0a:a9ff:fe72:7a0d] has joined #lisp 15:20:09 Hello, I failed doing (ql:quickload "gsll"). The error info shows it didn't add libffi include paths to the compile command. What to do? 15:20:46 how about installing libffi-dev? 15:21:24 I'm on Archlinux, and the include paths are /usr/lib/libffi-version/include. 15:21:39 s/paths are/path is/ 15:21:49 that's a strange location for includes 15:21:56 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:22:03 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 15:22:18 Yeah I agree. But how do I add the -I/path/to/that? 15:23:14 how about CFLAGS? 15:23:28 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 15:23:50 Hmm... You mean CFLAGS=THE_EXTRA_FRAGS sbcl? 15:24:01 that's one way 15:24:07 Lemme try 15:24:58 Hmm, failed again. 15:29:15 -!- duko [~duko@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:02 xecycle: alternatively, download gsll and edit the file where the libs are loaded. 15:31:00 arch linux does odd things. Are all includes in lib/whatever directories? 15:31:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-165-17.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:29 well, it doesn't cause problems for programs which use pkg-config, i presume 15:32:46 mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.83] has joined #lisp 15:33:08 *dlowe* really wishes more libraries used pkg-config 15:33:14 apparently, only libffi does that 15:33:42 marcelino [~marcel@81.180.210.99] has joined #lisp 15:34:06 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip68-8-238-110.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:45 -!- frx [~gabk@31.45.128.121] has quit [Quit: frx] 15:34:49 prxq: The error info shows the wrong package is fsbv. I'll look into that. 15:35:10 Seems this packager did something weird. 15:35:39 agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:49 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:22 Well I'd like a quicklisp-like package manager but doesn't insist on using pure lisp. 15:37:24 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:39:43 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.83] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@76-078.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:42:03 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:42:19 -!- xecycle [~user@2001:da8:8000:e104:ca0a:a9ff:fe72:7a0d] has left #lisp 15:43:56 Slightly odd question: If I read in a literal array, is there a way I can assign it a certain element-type? (or achieve a similar effect by copying it into a new array with :element-type given) 15:43:59 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-145.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44:21 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:38 stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has joined #lisp 15:44:39 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:45:04 is it a one-dimensional array? 15:45:17 stassats, not necessarily 15:45:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 15:46:14 then you can only rely on copying it into a new array 15:47:28 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 15:47:33 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:47:50 How can I get round the fact that make-array's :initial-contents argument seems to require a list rather than a literal array (with #2A or whatever on the beginning)? 15:48:01 (defun coerce-array (array element-type) (let ((new-array (make-array (array-dimensions array) :element-type element-type))) (loop for i below (array-total-size array) do (setf (row-major-aref new-array) (row-major-aref array))) new-array)) 15:48:10 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uxggoxidvlrniipe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48:41 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 15:49:26 (row-major-aref new-array i), of course 15:49:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:50:34 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:50:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 15:55:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:55:33 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 15:55:50 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has joined #lisp 15:56:00 ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 15:56:00 -!- ubii [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has quit [Changing host] 15:56:00 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 15:59:08 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:59:30 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 15:59:35 Greetings lispers 15:59:49 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:54 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 15:59:58 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00:09 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.18] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:10 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:54 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:01:07 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:01:33 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:02:41 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:15 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:06:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:06:45 -!- gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has left #lisp 16:06:54 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:07:21 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:51 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:08:04 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:08:46 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-227-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:10:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:11:29 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:11:47 setmeaway [stemearay@183.106.96.18] has joined #lisp 16:12:39 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.85.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:43 hello ThomasH 16:14:36 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.43.101] has joined #lisp 16:14:49 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 16:16:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:16:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.43.101] has quit [Client Quit] 16:16:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:19:34 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:15 pnq1 [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 16:21:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:41 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:21:56 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:02 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:23:39 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:28:58 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-068-153-214.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:05 Hello! I'd like opinions on this, if anyone can spare a minute to look: https://github.com/pve1/incongruent-methods 16:29:06 browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.218.224] has joined #lisp 16:29:09 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 16:29:12 Is it totally a bad idea? 16:29:55 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.212] has joined #lisp 16:30:47 pve: it's actually neat. Is that a pattern matching kind of thing? 16:30:55 pve: What problem does it solve? In your example, I would have done that using an optional argument. 16:31:21 ThomasH: but that can't dispatch on type 16:31:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:32:06 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:32:09 i'd just use (defgeneric hello-gf (me greeting)) and then (defun hello (me &key greeting) (hello-gf me greeting)) 16:32:43 prxq: What stassats said. I'm still not sure what problem this solves. 16:32:50 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:26 pve refuses to tell us :-) 16:35:20 its secret 16:35:47 less contrived examples would help 16:36:09 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 16:36:20 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.218.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:24 generally, it's helpful when a generic function does just one thing 16:36:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:42 different argument classes may required different code do that thing 16:37:17 browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.218.224] has joined #lisp 16:37:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:37:22 I foresee the frequent use of APPLY with these methods. 16:38:31 stassats: i see applications for "frob" type methods :-) 16:38:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:39:00 ThomasH: valid question, i'm still looking for a problem it solves :) 16:39:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:39:45 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ] 16:40:11 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 16:41:35 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:42:02 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:32 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:43:27 pve: If you're going to extend generic functions, make a predicate dispatch extension. 16:44:17 ThomasH: i will look into that 16:44:52 stassats: so your position is that overloaded methods are *never* useful? 16:45:57 yes 16:46:46 alright 16:47:15 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:24 -!- chebastian [~chebastia@c-d875e255.015-51-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:47:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:48:02 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-165-17.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:49:15 prxq: no, it just maps to different generic functions based on arity 16:50:12 I did a quick search on predicate dispatch and discovered 'Filtered Dispatch' by Pascal Costanza. Looks interesting. 16:50:47 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has joined #lisp 16:52:05 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:52:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:52:43 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:09 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 16:53:10 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.92] has joined #lisp 16:54:20 <_tca> you could do it via cl-optima 16:54:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-61.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:00:08 stassats: by overloaded you mean semantically different? 17:00:59 i never said "overloaded" 17:01:14 stassats: ah I see you didn't, pve did 17:01:49 i just agreed that what pve showed isn't useful, however he calls it 17:02:07 I agree that you souldn't have a generic function that does two different things. If you want to re-use the function name for doing something different, that's what packages are for 17:02:17 pve: adding a top-level macro that defines functions, but somewhat differently, for a feature that i personally never really miss seems like a rather big hammer 17:02:27 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 17:02:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:03:41 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:04:15 pve: it immediately raises the question whether those functions work as well and as well thought out as common lisp's own functions. the bar is set pretty high for fundamental mechanisms like functions. 17:05:11 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-70-93.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 17:05:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:05:22 H4ns: I think that's an unfair bar. One would imagine the first implementation of something new won't be as good as something that's been polished for a while 17:05:25 pve: i'm not saying that language research is bad. it should be done. i'm just sceptical that the result of this particular research will become part of idiomatic lisp. 17:05:40 H4ns: though I don't see a need for the incongruent functions 17:05:56 -!- saac [~saac@a85-138-109-155.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #lisp 17:06:11 jasom: that is what i mean to say. it is a sad fact that common lisp is pretty good. good enough to be not easily enhancable :) 17:06:46 i thought about such functions for using with commonqt, for overriding c++ methods 17:06:51 H4ns: but you don't want to be stuck in a local maxima; trying out some new stuff and seeing if it's useful enough to polish seems like a good thing 17:07:17 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:08:44 H4ns: i understand.. however this library basically maps calls to normal generic function calls (at compile-time when arity can be determined) 17:08:56 pve: so no apply, no funcall? 17:08:57 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:09:01 Joreji [~thomas@65-099.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:48 H4ns: apply and funcall work, but then the arity needs to be determined at runtime 17:10:06 sorry, i meant only for apply 17:10:33 funcall maps properly at compile-time 17:10:36 MusangKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-131.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:10:40 it does? 17:11:06 even in (defun foo (x) (funcall x 1 2 3))? 17:11:25 no, i meant in the simple case 17:11:37 who uses funcall in the simple case? 17:11:43 AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:12:41 duko [~duko@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:53 noone, you're rigth 17:13:15 who's Noone? 17:13:25 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:13:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13:57 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:14:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:14:55 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 17:15:21 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:16:24 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754ca7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@BC06BB71.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 17:17:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@BC06BB71.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:17:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:17:08 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-94-44-70-93.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:18:51 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:08 Nisani [~Nisani@rrcs-74-62-43-3.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:19:38 -!- MusangKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-131.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:49 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-131.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:20:33 on the clisp interactive splash screen, does it light the candles based on what night of hannukah it is? 17:20:36 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:21:01 because i'm looking at it now and only 6 of the candles are lit 17:21:12 that's an amusing easter egg if so 17:21:51 Nisani: How do I trigger the splash screen? 17:22:02 engblom: you should just run clisp without any args 17:22:10 -!- marcelino [~marcel@81.180.210.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:29 Ah, that one... 17:23:11 I thought it was some kind of graphical easter egg.. 17:23:29 well it is, sort of 17:23:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:24:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:24:45 r126l [~ruwin126@120.142.67.254] has joined #lisp 17:24:53 Surely you mean a Hannukah egg. 17:24:59 :P 17:25:40 :) 17:26:18 newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has joined #lisp 17:27:42 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:27:56 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 17:27:56 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:28:20 -!- nan_ [~user@178.233.216.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:28:56 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:29:19 ASau [~user@46.115.49.59] has joined #lisp 17:29:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:31:37 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:31:47 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:31:51 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:33:43 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 17:34:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:35:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:36:02 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:36:25 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:00 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39:09 bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has joined #lisp 17:39:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:40:58 Hello! I want to run a Friedman's test in Common Lisp. Before attempting to write my own code, I wonder if there's already a library for that. I took a look at CLiki but couldn't find anything useful. Any hints? 17:43:11 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:13 blahfop [~AndChat60@204.14.12.196] has joined #lisp 17:43:31 Hi :) 17:44:19 -!- Nisani [~Nisani@rrcs-74-62-43-3.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:45:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:45:42 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:46:19 which friedman ? 17:46:42 this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_test 17:47:17 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:59 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:48:13 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:48:19 try and google for it 17:48:24 ASau` [~user@46.115.66.222] has joined #lisp 17:49:33 i'm really shocked at the amount of questions that get's asked in here that could be answered by google 17:49:34 i found dmap-test.lisp 17:49:44 http://code.google.com/p/iccle/source/browse/branches/team/8/lib/tricks/friedman.lisp?r=1923 17:50:12 another one http://code.google.com/p/iccle/source/browse/branches/team/8/lib/tricks/friedman.lisp?r=1931 17:50:15 I did try googling first, but apparently didn't phrase it quite well. Thank you, anyway! 17:50:16 Is it possible to make a text editor using common lisp? 17:50:19 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:50:31 there already is 17:50:40 s/a/a good, working/ 17:50:41 -!- ASau` [~user@46.115.66.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:42 blahfop, yes, it is possible to make a test editor using common lisp. 17:50:53 Oh cool :) 17:50:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:50:56 mcclim is just one way 17:51:06 newbie_coder: You really are a newbie, it has been my experience is most areas that people ask questions that could be easily answered by a little personal initiative. 17:51:06 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.49.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:10 s/test/text 17:51:10 ASau` [~user@46.115.66.222] has joined #lisp 17:51:25 climacs 17:51:32 one attempt 17:51:44 not complete/without bugs... 17:52:06 or do it from scratch......maybe.... 17:52:14 or use just emacs 17:52:34 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:52:55 Goto go. Thank you 17:53:00 -!- blahfop [~AndChat60@204.14.12.196] has quit [Quit: Bye] 17:54:29 tjasko__ [~Jasko@174.46.83.99] has joined #lisp 17:54:52 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aclh115.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:54:55 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:55:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:55:25 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:55:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:58 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 17:57:35 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:59:13 -!- pnq1 [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:55 -!- bioevolgenec [~bioevolge@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has left #lisp 18:00:48 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:01:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:02:20 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 18:03:13 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: ``the sound of silence''] 18:03:13 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:03:21 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.43.101] has joined #lisp 18:03:43 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:05:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:06:07 ThomasH: so i was thinking.. regarding what problem the overloaded methods library solves, would you accept "lets the programmer pretend that methods belong to classes instead of generic functions"? :) 18:06:16 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:30 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:06:44 soltan [~user@41.102.29.66] has joined #lisp 18:06:45 with multiple dispatch? to which of the classes then? 18:06:56 and what about EQL specializers? 18:07:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:31 pve: I would agree that programmers pretending that methods belong to classes is a problem. :-) 18:07:39 -!- soltan [~user@41.102.29.66] has quit [Client Quit] 18:07:47 hehe 18:08:12 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.43.101] has quit [Client Quit] 18:09:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:15 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-131.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:11:28 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:12:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@BC06BB71.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 18:12:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@BC06BB71.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Changing host] 18:12:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:12:54 -!- clintm [~clintm@c-98-203-180-88.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: clintm] 18:13:35 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:14:30 -!- HydanData [~user@ip-89-102-13-27.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:15:16 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:15:22 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-129-252.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:15:31 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:39 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-129-252.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:16:44 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:20:21 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-5-206-176-184.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:20:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:21:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:21:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-5-206-176-184.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:21:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-5-206-176-184.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 18:21:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:21:58 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:22:59 clintm [~clintm@c-98-203-180-88.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:19 attila_lendvai2 [~attila_le@apn-5-206-176-184.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:24:19 -!- attila_lendvai2 is now known as attila_lendvai 18:24:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-5-206-176-184.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 18:24:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:24:28 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-5-206-176-184.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:25:25 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:15 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:27:46 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 18:31:26 -!- vityok [~user@193.109.118.129] has left #lisp 18:31:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 18:32:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:36:10 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:37:18 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:37:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:38:57 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:39:40 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:48 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:40:08 ThomasH, what's wrong with methods belonging TO classes? 18:41:21 pve: if you want to make an object system where methods belong to classes, i guess you can try with the amop. 18:41:23 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:40 newbie_coder: nothing per se, just that it is a bit limited 18:42:30 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:42:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:43:08 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:43:18 newbie_coder: It's wrong in the context of CL because methods do not belong to classes in the CLOS. 18:44:03 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:29 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:26 newbie_coder: it simply does not make sense when you're talking about CLOS. If you want that sort of object system, it's trivial to implement, though. 18:45:33 So how would you describe the relationship between methods and classes 18:46:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:46:30 in CLOS? Classes are objects with types and data. Methods belong to generic functions, which look at whatever arguments were passed in and decide which method to call. They're pretty separated. 18:46:54 Okay, that's a very long way that I still don't get the connection 18:47:07 if methods don't belong to classes what do methods _____ to classes? 18:47:19 ...but I have to agree with something mentioned earlier that you're better off reading the two small chapters in PCL about CLOS instead of sitting here asking these questions. 18:47:22 can we say, method operates on classes? 18:47:37 newbie_coder: methods ___go_read_pcl___ to classes. 18:47:37 newbie_coder: Methods operate on objects 18:47:43 does that help? 18:48:00 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:48:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:48:20 -!- tjasko__ [~Jasko@174.46.83.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48:23 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:48:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 methods are just functions that execute on whatever was given to them. Methods themselves don't have much of a concept of classes. :) 18:48:41 Okay, So Methods operate on objects. ThomasH, when it comes to the objects that a method operates on, there exists a set of objects that a method can operate on, right? 18:49:09 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aclh115.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:50:09 newbie_coder: You can define a default method that is specialized on T and will operate on whatever it is passed. Or you can only define specialized methods for and get an error if the method is passed an object without an implementation. 18:50:28 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 18:50:30 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:50:44 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:50:45 newbie_coder: CLOS is really much more general and flexible than other object systems 18:50:49 ThomasH: the method doesn't signal such an error. 18:51:11 cool, so given a method foo and the set S which is a set of all possible objects that foo can operate on. Is it then wrong to say that method foo belongs to all classes that those objects in S are derived from? 18:51:42 prxq: yeah i guess, but i don't think i'm going to take my library any further.. if you adopt the convention that the first argument to the method is the class the method "belongs" to, then you can kind of fake it with the current implementation 18:52:10 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:13 pve: but you'd be missing out on so much goodness. 18:52:17 although learning more MOP would be cool 18:52:22 sykopomp: I didn't mean to imply that. 18:53:08 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:09 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:53:24 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.241.218.224] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:53:30 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:44 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:54:01 newbie_coder: I don't know if it's wrong, but it is possibly vacuous. What about a method that can operate on all objects? 18:54:25 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 18:54:52 sykopomp: well yea, but i tried to make it as non-intrusive as possible so that both systems can be used at the same time 18:55:00 jasom, so a method that accepts T 18:55:07 newbie_coder: it is wrong, because methods don't *belong* to classes 18:55:23 <_tca> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/1998-October/017019.html 18:55:34 newbie_coder: in the sense that (like in many other popular OO languages) they'd be defined within the classes and do belong to them 18:55:57 newbie_coder: and how is that any different than saying that all classes a method can operate on belong to that method? There is a relationship, yes, but I don't know that it could be described as ownership 18:56:01 sure, methods don't BELONG INSIDE a class 18:56:48 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:57:18 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:02 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:59:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:00:37 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:09 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:48 Kruppe [~user@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-81.net.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 19:02:20 -!- agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:03:17 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:03 alpha123_gone [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:17 i think part of the "methods belong to classes" thing is just an artifact of infix notation. If you put the moronic dot at the beginning of the form instead of after the first argument, it's hard not to see that generic functions are the more general (and right) concept 19:04:17 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:05:16 Well, there's this notion of sending messages to objects 19:05:58 prxq: I didn't see the beginning of this conversation, and while I quite like generic functions, I feel that for attributes infix notation is nicer: article.title vs (title article) 19:06:00 agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:02 -!- alpha123_gone is now known as alpha123 19:06:03 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:07 minion: memo for cizra: the first lisp had already type tags. Even before that, FLPL had them! See the sources of LISP 1.5 ftp://ftp.informatimago.com/users/pjb/lisp/lisp15-0.0.2.tar.gz and http://www.informatimago.com/articles/flpl/index.html ; You can see there that (CAR 42) would have returned what's in the CAR of the word at the address 42. No type checking. But also, it doesn't appear to be an area initialized by the LISP 19:07:07 Remembered. I'll tell cizra when he/she/it next speaks. 19:07:07 1.5. 19:08:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-66.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:08:40 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:09:21 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:09:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:09:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-239-115.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:10:44 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:10:59 -!- iLogical is now known as telesena 19:11:00 -!- Kruppe [~user@cn-nat2-uw-129-97-124-81.net.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:51 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:06 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:14 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:12:42 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:13:07 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:20 prxq: well in C++/Java style OO, you have objects being used for namespaces, partial application and single-argument polymorphism 19:14:08 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:14:25 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:14:34 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 19:14:43 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:15:29 partial application? wow, how java supports that? 19:17:39 pve: if you want a Smalltalk-like OO system it's trivial to implement one in CL. In 50 lines you can write a usable one. In half an day you can write a complete Smalltalk OO system. 19:18:11 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:57 chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 But when you see all the difficulties people have when using single inheritance OO systems, and the ugly kludges they have to use to circumvent this limitations, you aren't really motivated to spend this half a day. 19:19:18 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:19:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:20:00 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:20:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:20:25 pjb: try implementing ocaml's. 19:20:52 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:38 -!- chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has quit [Client Quit] 19:23:09 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 19:23:10 chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has joined #lisp 19:23:31 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.207] has joined #lisp 19:23:42 hi 19:24:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:25:05 prxq: method belong "inside" the classes, because usually classes define a lexical scope inside which method bodies are. 19:25:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:25:39 v0|d: you can always make it more complex :-) 19:26:11 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:26:54 pjb: havent seen such an esoteric one in years. 19:27:16 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27:48 -!- wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:27:52 Objects are about encapsulating state. In a functional programming language you don't have state, so what do you want to encapsulate, I'm asking? No wonder it's esoteric! 19:28:41 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 Maybe you're trying to encapsulate the programmers experience from other programming languages instead of having them adapt to the functional approach. 19:29:44 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 19:29:44 v0|d: you're right, Java doesn't, I was thinking of python (where you can return a bound method) 19:29:53 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:30:32 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-53-202.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:32 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-53-202.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:30:32 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:30:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:30:44 k0001 [~k0001@host33.186-109-100.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:31:46 pjb: it would certainly be an interesting exercise.. although i think i'm content for the moment with my incongruent methods library 19:32:29 -!- chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:57 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 19:33:56 -!- agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:35:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has joined #lisp 19:37:57 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:02 hi 19:38:25 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5d84e74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:51 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has joined #lisp 19:39:29 Guys, is there any good text after ansi common lisp ? 19:40:04 PCL? 19:40:17 paip 19:40:18 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:40:19 practical common lisp? 19:40:22 yessir 19:40:32 what is paip? 19:40:43 paradims of ai 19:41:05 Oh i havent heard of paip 19:41:05 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:41:17 it is textbook for AI ? 19:41:50 I mean colleage textbook.. 19:42:02 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:42:23 I am not in US. It is hard to get the textbook 19:42:28 pjb, everything is trivial to implement in CL for you. lol 19:42:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:43:14 chunseoklee, if you are resourcefully enough, you can download pdf versions 19:43:50 oh it's writeen by peter norvig 19:44:37 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:45:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:34 amazon delivers almost everywhere. 19:45:35 Everybody use CL with real life project here? 19:45:51 It tooks too much delivery fee. 19:46:02 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:46:48 -!- chunseoklee [~user@94.153.230.50] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:47:29 lakatosi [~user@c12.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 19:49:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 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