00:03:34 DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.128.58] has joined #lisp 00:03:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:05:49 biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-228-107.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:18 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:21 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 00:15:10 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:17:23 -!- DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.128.58] has left #lisp 00:18:39 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:53 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:24:25 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:27 -!- Sisyphus_of_IT [~james@99-157-106-84.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:26 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:31 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:28 Strigoides [~Strigoide@60-234-213-126.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 00:29:19 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:32:15 I can get the max hash-value in a table using (loop for val being the hash-values in table maximizing val), but is there any way to use loop to get the corresponding key for that max hash-value? 00:34:27 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:35:41 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:35:52 I guess the more general case would be to get the value that maximizes the value of some function 00:36:20 not with loop. 00:37:55 Okay, I guess I'll use do or something instead, thanks 00:38:32 probably maphash or with-hash-table-iterator. 00:40:07 with-hash-table-iterator looks what I want 00:46:14 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:59 tensorpu1ding [~tensorpud@99.102.69.147] has joined #lisp 00:50:30 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.201.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:51:30 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:34 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 00:52:32 -!- mritz [~textual@97.65.251.170] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:52:34 can i make iolib.syscalls:symlink make a softlink in which the new-path is given relative to the old-path? 00:55:23 ah, it looks like symlinks work the other way around 00:55:30 yay for manpages. thanks 00:56:06 -!- biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-228-107.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:57:40 Strigoides: (loop :for v :being :the :hash-value :of ** :using (hash-key k) :collect (list k v) :into list :finally (return (first (sort list #'> :key #'second)))) 00:58:32 Bike: I am using loop on HASH-TABLEs right now, so I know all about it :) 00:59:09 that strikes me as inefficient, but ok. 00:59:17 (that is not a good idea, it CONSes a lot) 00:59:23 Nice! I figured there would be some crazy way like that to do it 01:01:02 Bike: it is indeed... it can but done with one loop and no CONSing save for one key/value if VALUES are not used as such 01:01:24 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:39 that is just my 'using loop already so c/p things' LOOP form 01:01:45 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:03:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134133 is how I ended up doing it 01:03:40 lengths being the hash table of course 01:04:24 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@138.23.59.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:04:33 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:18 (loop :with mv = 0 :with hk = NIL :for v :being :the :hash-value :of ** :using (hash-key k) :do (when #'> v mv (setf mv v hk k)) :finally (return (cons hk mv))) 01:07:02 Strigoides: ^ only one loop over the hash table :) 01:07:23 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:07:48 Strigoides: loop doesn't need a "do" there, the "short" version is just that anyway 01:08:11 Ah okay, thanks 01:08:20 and yeah, pretty much exactly what your lisppaste does, only using the advanced LOOP 01:08:48 there's more than one way to do it (TM) 01:14:15 Kvaks_ [~kvaks@34.157.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 01:14:16 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.18] has joined #lisp 01:14:22 insomnia` [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 01:15:00 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.22.198] has joined #lisp 01:15:06 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:54 flip214_ [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 01:16:29 Guest191` [~user@212.110.167.245] has joined #lisp 01:16:31 herbieB [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:50 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@28.162.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:16:51 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:52 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:23 jdz_ [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 01:18:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:17 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:17 -!- rvirding_ [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wbcalxwdaezjkmuz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:17 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:17 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:17 -!- herbieB_ [~herbie@s15434998.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:17 -!- Guest19192 [~user@212.110.167.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:17 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@183.106.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:18:19 -!- tensorpu1ding [~tensorpud@99.102.69.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:18:27 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 01:19:43 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:17 -!- SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:04 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 01:24:38 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A2F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:10 -!- Yuuhi [benni@84.131.162.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:27:06 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:32:37 Is there a function to do this: (if foo foo bar)? 01:32:56 no, but there's a macro, OR 01:33:14 oh right, or returns the value rather than just t? 01:33:24 yep 01:33:29 cool, thanks 01:34:54 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:36:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:40:08 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:34 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:46:55 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:46:58 Paarthurnax [~Adium@c-67-177-208-62.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:49:05 -!- Paarthurnax [~Adium@c-67-177-208-62.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:50:21 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:50:50 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has joined #lisp 01:52:36 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 01:55:02 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:19 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:11 Forty-Two [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:12 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-73-164-28.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:01:23 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:02:11 springz [~springz@116.226.208.161] has joined #lisp 02:04:10 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:04:25 astertronistic [~astertron@ip68-8-238-110.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:23 segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-73-164-28.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:49 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:12 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:18:12 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:19:47 Natch_u [~Natch@c-a9cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:21:38 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-a9cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:21:38 -!- Natch_u is now known as Natch 02:25:24 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:26 Anyone feel like testing my Graphics Engine? 02:30:36 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:06 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:37:18 Hey sykopomp. 02:37:22 sup 02:38:06 sykopomp: I released my graphics engine. 02:38:27 I saw. 02:39:11 I'm cleaning it up now. Documentation and exporting. 02:39:40 I could use a victim, I mean test subject. I have no idea if it even works on another machine. 02:41:13 Mmm 02:41:17 what do you need? 02:41:43 sykopomp: Just to put it in ~/quicklisp/local-projects and try the example. 02:42:04 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:42:11 sykopomp: Can you use cl-cairo2? I haven't made it optional yet. 02:43:32 Don't know. Never tried. 02:43:37 what's the clone url 02:43:57 https://github.com/BradWBeer/CLinch.git 02:45:19 *madnificent* missed another lib yesterday and stopped there. lack the time to try further 02:46:08 madnificent: I apreciate you trying. Thank you. 02:46:09 -!- EasyAt [~Easy@unaffiliated/easyat] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:46:39 madnificent: I'm going to make Freeimage, pango, and cairo optional. I just haven't gotten to it yet. 02:48:52 -!- alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: alpha123] 02:52:21 sbcl-only 02:52:22 ;-; 02:52:26 sb-sys why oh why 02:52:49 *sykopomp* ages and decays while SBCL compiles this thing. 02:53:06 sykopomp: :P 02:53:59 -!- Guest23830 [~lizzin@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:54:28 sykopomp: Did something break? I really want this to work on other common lisps. 02:54:39 something wanted sb-sys. 02:54:51 EasyAt [~Easy@81.17.31.43] has joined #lisp 02:54:54 -!- EasyAt [~Easy@81.17.31.43] has quit [Changing host] 02:54:54 EasyAt [~Easy@unaffiliated/easyat] has joined #lisp 02:55:36 sykopomp: Ack. I am doing a (typep data 'sb-sys:system-area-pointer) 02:56:00 AntiSpamMeta2 [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 02:56:01 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Killed (barjavel.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services))] 02:56:01 -!- AntiSpamMeta2 is now known as AntiSpamMeta 02:56:50 WarWeasle: OpenGL signalled (1285 . OUT-OF-MEMORY) from MAP-BUFFER. 02:56:52 [Condition of type CL-OPENGL-BINDINGS:OPENGL-ERROR] 02:57:10 WarWeasle: => #lispgames to reduce spamming here :) 02:57:11 sykopomp: Did it run at all? 02:57:16 k 02:57:30 WarWeasle: I have a very teal window open 02:58:34 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-249-211.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:16 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:48 rvirding_ [uid5943@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xpvgofjsvrwughpw] has joined #lisp 03:16:08 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:11 snits [~snits@174-17-119-85.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:39 smazga` [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:53 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 03:32:37 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:40 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 03:40:12 francisl 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[Client Quit] 06:40:50 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:44:10 hertz [~newblue@116.26.58.114] has joined #lisp 06:45:13 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:45:55 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 06:48:40 -!- alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: alpha123] 06:49:40 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:49:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:49:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:50:00 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:11 can loop destructure arrays, too? ie. if I've got a list of arrays, (loop for (a b c) in list-of-arrays ...) ... there's "for (values ...)", too 06:52:19 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:23 duko_ [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:40 Nope. 06:55:54 You need a library or your own array destructuring operator. 06:56:12 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 06:56:51 I'm going with "for l in list-of-arrays for (a b c) = (coerce 06:56:56 'list l) etc. 06:57:11 that'll probably cons up a new list... 06:57:28 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:58:35 http://www.pastebin.ca/2293105 the parameters `email` and `name` appear in the output as their symbol-names 06:58:42 rather than their definitions 06:58:51 would someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? 06:59:34 clhs quote 06:59:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_quote.htm 06:59:40 duko_: ^ 07:00:02 is see 07:00:06 duko_: you might want ` instead 07:00:22 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.88.18.4] has left #lisp 07:03:12 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:03:43 Or more simply: LIST. 07:04:14 Compare: (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (quote (a b))) vs. (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (list a b)) 07:04:32 *drewc* agrees with pjb on this one. 07:05:23 thanks you 07:05:50 the mustache-render method does not like the list but this helps me a lot 07:08:00 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:08:48 well, I'd choose `((:a ,a) (:b ,b)) over (list (list :a a) (list :b b)) every time 07:09:57 flip214_ wow thanks! 07:10:50 I haven't had many chances to practically apply ` and , 07:11:02 this makes me happy 07:12:25 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:30 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:41 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 07:16:39 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:16:44 thanks 07:16:48 -!- duko_ [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:18:45 -!- ehu 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[~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 09:02:57 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 09:04:16 nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 09:06:06 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 09:06:35 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-131-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:25 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:46 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:11:14 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:16:05 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:21:23 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:24:36 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:27:32 gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 09:29:44 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 09:30:21 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:27 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:40:47 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-210-166.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:25 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-11-136.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:43:07 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.228.30.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:47:21 Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-83-215.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:48:02 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:50:33 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:53:00 I'm reading the anaphoric macro section of 'on lisp' and this example is given: https://gist.github.com/4275380 09:53:30 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:54:28 err... forget it, my question is answered on another page :P 09:57:46 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:59:25 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:02:17 lizzin [~lizzin@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:19 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:02:41 -!- lizzin is now known as Guest25156 10:03:31 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Quit:   .] 10:04:07 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 10:11:00 -!- Guest25156 [~lizzin@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:11:27 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 10:12:33 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-88-130.lns13.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:12:46 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 10:20:53 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-oisbaduzhmyrdewb] has joined #lisp 10:23:00 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:30:00 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:31:02 stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has joined #lisp 10:32:43 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:35:11 I'm having trouble understanding gensyms. I know what they are supposed to do (prevent namespace interference in macros by generating unique uninterned symbols) but I have trouble understanding it 10:35:48 cornihilio: that is sad. 10:37:11 gensym is just a convenience function over MAKE-SYMBOL. not much to understand there. 10:38:02 in this (let ((x (gensym))) I don't get how it works at all. isn't that saying the value of x is the gensym? 10:38:22 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00246c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:42 yes 10:38:44 cornihilio: x is bound to the symbol returned by gensym. 10:38:49 cornihilio: Just call (gensym) in repl 10:39:22 and then `(foo ,x) calls it on the gensym symbol 10:39:54 no. the backquote constructs a list with that symbol in it 10:40:43 cdr255 [~cdr255@pool-71-188-103-3.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:19 snowylike [snowylike@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:21 ah, okay. but I don't get one part... I feel like x would interact with the usage of x within foo, right? or does the backquote prevent that? 10:42:03 -!- Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:07 I think what you're missing is that contrary to many languages, lisp source code isn't text but list of lisp data, including symbols 10:42:14 Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 10:42:48 the whole point of the gensym is to construct a piece of source code using a symbol guaranteed to be distinct from anything created by the lisp reader 10:44:10 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00246c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:44:21 btw 10:44:23 thank you, that explanation really helps. 10:44:41 mal_: Can't you just write (let ((x #:my-symbol)) ...)? 10:44:49 Reader can't create another #:my-symbol 10:45:06 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-83-215.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 10:45:23 Oh, right. The problems start when you try to use a macro inside its form. 10:45:25 yes but you typically want to refer more than one time to your newly created symbol 10:45:35 Like (my-macro ... (my-macro ...)) etc 10:45:42 refer to it by x. 10:46:36 No, I got it. e.g. You couldn't write two WITH-OPEN-FILE inside each other if they used plain uninterned symbols. 10:47:11 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 10:49:21 how do you use a "plain uninterned symbol"? 10:49:32 uninterned symbols are not readable. 10:52:38 uninterned means that a function call inside of a macro with a symbol bound to gensym won't be seen by the function, right? 10:52:44 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 10:52:54 Hi! May I introduce myself? :) 10:53:24 ok, just joking :) 10:53:50 cornihilio: uninterned means that symbol is not interned into any package. if you use an uninterned symbol as a variable name, you can be sure that that variable name is unique. 10:53:59 gensym: jokes and introductions are on topic only if they include lisp :) 10:55:03 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:55:31 (let ((x '#:a)) (list x x x)) 10:55:34 (#:A #:A #:A) 10:55:45 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@mhi.sanctioned.net] has left #lisp 10:56:27 Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-83-215.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:57:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:57:14 (describe '#:foo) 10:57:52 i meant to type that into my repl, actually :) 10:58:07 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:35 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:00:15 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 11:00:15 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 11:00:15 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:00:43 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 11:00:44 H4ns: ah okay. I was misattributing the lexical scope created by let and what gensym was doing. 11:01:42 -!- spacebat_ [spacebat@50-56-189-236.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:03:07 H4ns: (symbol-package '#:foo) (symbol-name '#:foo) :) 11:03:22 spacebat [spacebat@50-56-189-236.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:18 springz [~springz@116.226.208.161] has joined #lisp 11:08:20 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:09:17 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-183-88-130.lns13.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:11:04 Hello! I have question about (break) called inside function. In backtrace I see local variables, cool, but Is it possible to see special variables too? 11:11:23 just evaluate them 11:11:31 mrSpec: yes. use "e" to evaluate things in the context of the stack frame that you're interested in. 11:12:03 does Frode Vatvedt Fjeld come here? 11:12:36 theos: haven't seen him in a while. 11:12:47 H4ns oh so he used to? 11:12:57 theos: that is what i implied with my answer 11:12:59 Ok, I'm checking this, thanks! 11:13:31 > use "e" to evaluate things in the context of the stack frame that you're interested in. 11:13:33 H4ns ok thanks :) do you remember his nick? 11:13:34 H4ns: Thanks :) 11:13:39 theos: frodef 11:14:12 hmm maybe he unregistered 11:14:19 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:14:23 theos: well. at least i think it was him, he did not actually show his id or anything. 11:15:23 H4ns ok. i was reading about movitz. and it was last developed in 2008. i needed to know if he is working on it or not 11:15:54 theos: why do you need to know that? 11:16:02 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 11:16:53 H4ns i am looking for a decent lisp based OS 11:17:06 theos: there is no "decent lisp based os" 11:17:20 alright 11:18:06 and most links on the page dont work. looks like they wiped off his files or moved them somewhere else :/ 11:18:06 theos: According to linkedin, johs works with frodef. 11:18:10 sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@182.148.94.248] has joined #lisp 11:18:24 theos: movitz is probably the closest you can get if you want lisp on bare metal. 11:18:34 theos: short from writing your own 11:18:58 H4ns yes it seems good. but the links dont work on that page 11:18:59 theos: or you can get yourself an alpha and run opengenera. that'd be decent, if not very practical. 11:19:16 theos: there are a number of forks on github 11:19:21 oh 11:19:32 i need to work on my google-fu 11:19:53 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:05 theos: pok works with them as well 11:20:18 join #emacs 11:20:35 chr thanks :) 11:23:56 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:24:17 he uses ffjeld or fjeld on the web 11:26:47 -!- sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@182.148.94.248] has left #lisp 11:29:56 -!- drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:31:27 m4dnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 11:32:31 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:34:43 drdo [~drdo@roach0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 11:35:10 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:03 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-146.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:44:58 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-83-215.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 11:47:20 I got the impression that Frode did Movitz as some kind of project at university, and after that was done it has been kind of stagnant. 11:47:32 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 11:50:10 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:50:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:52:36 saac [~saac@a85-138-109-155.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 11:53:21 hmm 11:54:24 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:54:36 i think i will have to make my own lisp OS someday :D 11:55:08 i hope you'll talk yourself out of that 11:55:35 its that bad? 11:55:49 writing OSes is bad, yes 11:55:54 has nothing to do with lisp 11:56:40 i disagree 11:56:48 sort of 11:56:52 i just need something that runs on low ram, low resources embedded boards. has filesystem support. thats it. nothing fancy 11:57:29 though filesystem support is, by embedded systems standards, rather complex 11:57:37 :> 11:57:41 it just needs to be fast and have access to the lower level 11:58:27 but then when you need access to the low level, a language that has a close correspondence to assembly is useful 11:58:35 hence c 11:58:46 that depends on the architecture of your system 11:58:51 yeah 11:59:30 theos: using an existing kernel and wrapping a lisp around is likely to be more practical 11:59:48 i've read some thoughts on fpga's that reproduce most parts of a lisp machine 12:00:01 prxq yes thats a good option too 12:00:01 cool 12:00:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: go home] 12:00:38 theos: otoh, if you actually write a lisp os that works well enough for limited production use then, well, you are a hero. 12:00:51 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:00:59 :) 12:02:17 theos: but please try it only if it is enough fun for you! 12:03:00 prxq looks like fun right now! 12:03:00 a hero? really? 12:03:22 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:00 i bet some people do write good lisp based OSes. but they dont give the source :/ 12:04:10 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 12:04:23 theos: checking, have you tried alpine linux? 12:04:44 that should be quite minimal... 12:04:47 xmj not yet. but i will now as you have mentioned it 12:05:13 theos: i know they don't use glibc as they say it's too bloaty... 12:05:23 Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-83-215.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:05:26 theos: or, you could check a BSD :} 12:05:35 xmj is it better than uclinux? 12:05:50 dont ask me to define better :s 12:06:00 I haven't tried either. 12:06:22 just saw someone running freebsd as xen-domU with Alpine as dom0. 12:06:26 netbsd runs on a toaster and sbcl runs on netbsd. What does that prove again? :-) 12:06:34 i would prefer something lisp oriented. else linux is there 12:06:57 a toaster can run netbsd? 12:07:00 *theos* hides 12:07:08 why is it that defmacro quotes *default-db* here: https://gist.github.com/4275993 ? 12:07:51 it'll be evaluated otherwise 12:07:56 prxq: that just proves your toaster needs a looooot )))))))))))))))))) 12:08:05 Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has joined #lisp 12:08:07 xmj: that joke is not funny 12:08:14 for approximately 50 years 12:09:33 https://xkcd.com/297/ 12:09:35 :) 12:09:39 than why is it unquoted in clear-db? 12:10:01 prxq: that proves nothing, really, netbsd supports far more hardware platforms than SBCL 12:10:13 cornihilio: clear-db is a function 12:12:14 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 12:12:36 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:14:15 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:19 stassats: thank you 12:18:30 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has joined #lisp 12:18:41 -!- stlifey [~stlifey@112.96.100.38] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 12:19:06 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:23:46 bitonic [~user@dyn1219-154.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:24:43 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:12 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:24 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:33 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:41 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@c210-49-83-215.dandn3.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:33:15 Dreamlike_Space [~lia@44.182.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:36:19 segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-172-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:40 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:39:53 agumonkey [~agu@171.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:22 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:40:49 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:41:44 -!- cdr255 [~cdr255@pool-71-188-103-3.cmdnnj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:42:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:43:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:45:47 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1219-154.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:46:14 -!- agumonkey [~agu@171.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:46:52 agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has joined #lisp 12:51:27 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 12:51:42 Raptum [~Raptum@168.8.27.4] has joined #lisp 12:57:02 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:34 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:59:29 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:00:23 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:00:33 -!- snowylike [snowylike@91-67-171-156-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [] 13:00:50 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.137] has joined #lisp 13:01:19 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 13:01:24 liweinan [~liweinan@123.117.223.18] has joined #lisp 13:01:51 ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has joined #lisp 13:06:43 -!- Dreamlike_Space [~lia@44.182.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 13:10:28 Unfortunately, a defmethod has both a required argument named x and a key named x. Is it reasonable to trust that the key will override the required argument, as in http://paste.lisp.org/+2VHZ ? 13:10:56 *a certain defmethod 13:11:15 no 13:11:58 it's unreasonable to even expect it to be compiled 13:13:08 stassats: I'm about to change the code. In LW it seems that the value of the key will override. 13:13:28 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:56 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:14:43 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 13:14:43 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 13:14:43 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 13:17:09 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.10] has joined #lisp 13:18:09 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:52 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.137] has joined #lisp 13:20:18 chr: looks like extremely bad style to me. 13:21:13 chr: nothing prevents you from giving the required argument a different name and overriding its value with that from the keyword argument, if that is what you want. 13:21:28 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 13:21:39 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:19 how about (lambda (x &key (y x))) ? 13:23:05 stassats: looks proper. no source of confusion. 13:23:29 still that like a strange thing to want 13:23:34 seems 13:25:18 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.137] has joined #lisp 13:25:28 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:26:23 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:54 narmi [~sabayonus@149.147.208.108] has joined #lisp 13:27:27 bitonic [~user@dyn1193-122.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:27:49 -!- v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:30 hi 13:29:49 i am trying to figure out whether i should learn common lisp or clojure 13:29:57 common lisp 13:30:05 reason: this channel is about common lisp 13:30:12 lol 13:30:16 or both 13:30:30 well, if you go to #clojure, they will say "learn clojure" 13:30:38 so, i guess yes, you'll have to learn both 13:30:39 :P 13:30:44 narmi: you cannot learn two languages at the same time. 13:31:03 which one should i learn first 13:31:05 narmi: learning a language takes time. years, really. 13:31:09 narmi: common lisp. 13:31:11 narmi: common lisp, of course 13:31:25 minion: please tell narmi about PCL 13:31:25 narmi: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:31:35 i AM reading that 13:31:41 good 13:31:53 but i want to make sure that the language is right for me 13:32:07 all languages are not the same and some have certain advantages over others 13:32:21 what i am wondering is what those advantages are between clojure and cl 13:32:40 clojure is java based i think? 13:33:10 yes 13:33:15 narmi: choose a language, start learning it. if you don't find that it satisfies you, start learning the next. 13:33:21 okay 13:33:26 thank you 13:33:29 stay away from java imo 13:34:07 jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:34:11 i will learn cl first but will not run from java :) 13:34:32 see you after 2 years 13:35:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:13 lol 13:35:14 okay 13:35:50 or idle here to ask doubts 13:35:59 narmi: nothing wrong with asking questions here while you learn, but please do not ask "why is lisp better than blub" style questions. 13:36:55 okay 13:36:57 sorry 13:37:04 that was not my intention 13:37:28 H4ns: lol, your language sentence is soo general it even applies to reallife languages. nice one 13:37:40 lisp is cool, hip, the girls dig it 13:37:44 narmi: #clnoobs :) 13:37:50 lol 13:37:52 thanks 13:37:58 narmi: and #lispcafe 13:38:00 stassats: All girls I know dig java :P 13:38:10 And one is mildly interested in lisp because of its connection to AI. 13:38:17 Yeah, sorry for taking it literally :P 13:38:38 what? girls dig java? 13:38:52 that explains a lot 13:39:12 I thought they dug rockstar programmers; javascript, ruby, python, ... 13:39:13 if "girls dug lisp", i'd expect them to complain about this nonsense right now. 13:39:14 thanks for all your help 13:39:15 bye! 13:39:17 :) 13:39:23 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@149.147.208.108] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:41:05 H4ns: but "why is lisp better than blub" is a legitimate question, at least sometimes. 13:41:23 it's boring as hell 13:41:32 to you perhaps 13:41:35 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:42:04 it is so to me, but the world does not revolve around us 13:42:12 i find it boring, too 13:42:16 so that makes us three. 13:42:40 so we gang up and club down anyone who asks such a question? 13:42:48 sounds like a plan 13:42:58 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 13:42:59 -!- QuickSilver__ [~ait@akasha.ayai.com] has quit [Quit: QuickSilver__] 13:43:51 prxq: isn't that what we do? you could be more supportive of the gang rules, though. 13:43:51 I find that it's the wrong question because there's some value judgment in the phrasing, what is different would be avoiding that but still be boring, "what tools offer XXX that lisp hasn't have had for years?" might be of interest around here 13:43:53 :D 13:44:07 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-55-94.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 we should tell them about http://random-state.net/features-of-common-lisp.html + PCL 13:44:21 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:39 first, a metric by which languages can be compared should be established 13:46:10 stassats: common lisp can be compared to zeta lisp, maclisp and lisp1.5. that is it. 13:46:18 stassats: everything else => off topic. 13:46:42 i like simple rules. :D 13:46:56 well, alright, let's compare Common Lisp to maclisp 13:47:02 dim: e.g. reversible debugging: http://sourceware.org/gdb/news/reversible.html 13:47:03 narmi [~sabayonus@37.37.115.253] has joined #lisp 13:47:37 quick, to the REPL, let's implement it! 13:47:56 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@37.37.115.253] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:03 how the hell should the side-effects be handled? 13:48:15 lisp debuggers are abysmal compared to what gdb or visual studio offer 13:48:20 same thing for profilers 13:50:04 How fast is lisp when it comes to processing large numbersets, say for monte carlo simulations ? 13:50:24 maybe something can be done with side-effects inside the process, but what about FFI or network communications? 13:51:00 dunno about FFI, but network communications can be backtracked pretty easily 13:51:17 of course you can't rollback those 13:51:36 dlowe: not really, not unless you control the remote side as well 13:51:45 xmj: depends on implementation and algorithms more than the language. 13:51:45 dlowe: only if you just receive them, not send and receive 13:51:59 xmj: common lisp has the facilities to support dealing with large data sets, and there are implementations which perform well 13:52:13 I don't have to reinvent the wheel? 13:52:18 dlowe: or if it's dependent on some other side-effects 13:52:24 and there is GSLL 13:52:25 xmj: but your question is of course to general. "how fast" has no real meaning. 13:52:33 I disagree entirely. Your program interacts with an API for the network, and the results of those interface calls can be recorded and replayed 13:52:40 of course 13:52:44 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 13:53:15 for the average noob, can numbercrunching in lisp be faster than in python ? 13:53:46 it will probably be quite a bit faster 13:53:55 xmj: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/performance.php?test=pidigits 13:53:57 yes :] 13:54:07 dlowe: if you issue a webdav DELETE you can't possibly reverse that 13:54:21 not unless the debugger controls the remote side as well 13:54:36 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:54:43 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:43 awesome. 13:54:54 it's reversible *debugging*. Everything your program has done is recorded and replayed 13:55:00 -!- hertz [~newblue@116.26.58.114] has quit [Quit: ] 13:55:19 if you continue, it will replay the recording up to the "present," without interacting with the real network 13:56:01 dlowe: have you used it in anywhere? is it helpful for debugging? 13:56:25 replaying the recording is not enough sometimes 13:56:33 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:56:46 I've used it in gdb to diagnose crazy memory corruption. It makes your program hilariously slow, but it works. 13:56:57 if it's not enough, then you're using the wrong tool 13:57:28 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 13:57:44 it's great if you get your program into an invalid state and want to figure out exactly how it got there 13:58:29 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 13:58:31 i usually do "read the code and think hard" 13:58:36 xmj: SBCL set to highest speed optimizations will hint you at places where it can't generate the best code possible for its codegen. 13:58:59 -!- jdz is now known as Guest8891 13:59:20 yeah, me too. It's more valuable in C where memory corruption can crash a program in a totally different place. 13:59:23 not the best way when you debug something not written by you 13:59:34 stassats: you forgot half of your sentence. it should really read "i don't have a useful debugger, therefore i need to read the code and think hard" :D 13:59:44 -!- Guest8891 [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 13:59:48 dlowe: that's what I said. it's useful as long as the program's side-effects are limited to its process 14:00:04 jdz_ [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 14:01:02 H4ns: it's the other way around, people who can't think hard invent all those fancy debuggers 14:01:18 Yes. A debugger is only useful for programs that are being run inside the debugger. 14:01:44 I didn't know that was a matter of contention. 14:02:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has joined #lisp 14:02:54 most lisp debuggers lack steppers or recompileless breaks 14:02:55 xmj: number crunching in lisp is quite pleasant. You tend to get within a factor of two of C without much effort, but you get a lot more done. 14:03:07 so maybe implementing reversible debuggers is a bit premature 14:03:26 reversible debuggers sounds awfully hard to implement 14:03:42 there's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversible_computing 14:03:47 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:04:04 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 14:04:05 I think honestly that it's not worth it for lisp 14:04:12 Wouldn't mind a stepper, though 14:04:41 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 14:05:24 i've heard lispworks has a stepper 14:05:33 clisp too 14:05:58 well, lispworks is not free, and clisp support is abysmal in slime 14:06:01 racket as well, at least back when it was plt scheme and I used it 14:06:50 well, i personally have no problems with lispworks not being free (but i do have problems with 64-bit edition being somehow "enterprise") 14:07:21 well, the biggest problem is the lack of sources, no matter the license 14:08:43 -!- astertronistic [~astertron@ip68-8-238-110.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:09:13 prxq: heh, yeah. I had that impression too 14:09:16 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 14:10:00 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:10:12 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:16 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 14:11:36 -!- springz [~springz@116.226.208.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:09 lizzin [~lizzin@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:33 -!- lizzin is now known as Guest76843 14:15:43 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:32 xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:56 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1193-122.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:18:36 Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.56.191] has joined #lisp 14:18:37 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:19:55 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:20:44 -!- Raptum [~Raptum@168.8.27.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:05 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 14:24:11 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.22.198] has joined #lisp 14:24:21 bitonic [~user@dyn1193-122.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:25:58 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:27:39 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:27:41 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:34:54 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:43:00 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:08 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:45:47 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.82] has joined #lisp 14:46:14 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Client Quit] 14:46:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:52:36 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:53:30 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1193-122.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:55:14 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 14:59:41 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 15:00:56 bitonic [~user@109.144.219.9] has joined #lisp 15:04:19 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@146.90.56.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:05:13 rjmt___ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:07:10 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-87.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:09:13 myx [~myx@pppoe-210-143-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 15:10:44 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 15:11:09 francisl_ [~anonymous@199.84.162.167] has joined #lisp 15:13:22 -!- francisl_ [~anonymous@199.84.162.167] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:43 I don't understand when building a macro how the use of a second ` is justified: https://gist.github.com/4277055 15:18:29 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:30 well, that's a macro-building macro 15:18:32 so, two ` 15:18:42 err... what I'm trying to say is I don't get how if I were writing a macro how I'd realize I needed the second ` 15:19:01 it'd be just obvious 15:19:42 -!- agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:56 oh... yeah... that's true. but I've seen that before, I think, without a second call to defmacro. is that right? or am I misremembering? 15:20:15 i don't know what you have seen 15:20:34 well I mean there is no need for another ` if you aren't calling defmacro, correct? 15:21:48 wrong 15:22:33 cornihilio: defmacro and ` are orthogonal. look at them separately 15:22:47 i just wrote a defun with 2 ` 15:22:50 QuickSilver_ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:14 axion: did you have to? 15:23:18 yes 15:23:28 afaik...i'm newb 15:23:29 ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has joined #lisp 15:23:34 pasting 15:24:31 if you can use ` for list building in functions, than the only thing really separating defmacro and defun is the order in which they get called? 15:24:41 cornihilio: i find it helpful in these cases to write the "inner" backquoted form using list, quote and list* directly (at least until i understand the relationship between what i can expand now and what is a parameter of the macro i'm defining) 15:24:57 cornihilio: mostly. macros live in a different namespace, too. 15:24:59 cornihilio: be careful, that's not at all true. 15:25:07 http://paste.lisp.org/+2VI2 15:25:11 H4ns: they do? 15:25:36 no. 15:25:40 well, i'm confused. 15:25:51 cornihilio: ignore me, up to but excluding "orthogonal" 15:25:52 axion: that's not really double bacqoute 15:25:54 :) 15:26:14 stassats: oh? 15:26:32 segv-: thank you for that suggestion, I think I will start trying that. 15:26:35 the form where the second backquote is unquoted, so it's just two single backqoutes 15:27:31 axion: while in the code pasted by cornihilio, it's one backqoute inside another 15:27:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:28:15 hmm 15:28:44 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:29:40 stassats: I don't understand... how is that usage different? what do you mean that the second backquote is unquoted? why is that important? 15:30:14 does anybody know Ernst van Waning's email ? 15:30:22 google ? 15:30:38 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 15:30:55 cornihilio: because the first backqoute doesn't matter anymore, it's unquoted 15:30:58 cornihilio: http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 15:31:07 It has a page on macro generating macro 15:31:17 And a fun to read anyway :) 15:31:22 s/to // 15:31:23 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-210-143-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:31:30 i dont understand either and i wrote it cornihilio 15:32:07 you can move (let ...) into a functions, and you want see two backqoutes together, they are independent 15:32:15 function 15:32:23 man, s/want/won't/ 15:32:24 it creates a list of conses with a conditional 3rd cons 15:32:27 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:34:28 how would i rewrite it your way stassats? to have it splice in a 3rd cons on condition? 15:34:38 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:45 and is there anything wrong with what i did? 15:34:57 you don't have to rewrite anything 15:35:00 i am quite a newb 15:35:10 but if you want to understand how it works, you can split it into two functions 15:35:29 then you will just see one backqoute at time, if two confuse you 15:35:32 axion: your function is meant to be called within a let, correct? 15:35:35 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-32-223.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:35:39 no 15:36:06 -!- Guest76843 [~lizzin@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:36:37 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 15:37:01 why are you generating those initial cons cells? 15:37:24 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:37:47 (put-data (data-store) file (prepare-data file)) 15:38:36 storing data in a couchdb database. putting the same data in twice needs a revision to update it and not cause a conflict 15:39:14 and requires no version specified the first time 15:40:31 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:23 so you are conditionally generating an alist? 15:41:55 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:43:36 yes 15:47:43 so the first time, couchdb assigned a revision. subsequent putting the same document in, means to update it....so we specify the version present in the db in order to update it rather than trying to put a new document with the same name, thus causing a conflict 15:48:26 this is just splicing in that version conditionally to do it in 1 defun...not sure if its the best way to do it 15:48:28 makes sense. seems like an awesome use of cl. 15:49:18 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:52:08 -!- Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:15 Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 15:53:59 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:42 are continuations often used/simulated in cl? 15:55:15 no 15:55:33 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:34 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-141-87.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:56:05 -!- mattrepl_ is now known as mattrepl 15:57:22 you'll find things in CL on "Continuation Passing Style (CPS)" 15:58:23 or "delimited continuations" 15:59:44 cl only has delimited continuations, right? 15:59:58 CL does not have any kind of continuations 16:00:22 well, restarts could be considered some form of continuations 16:01:12 does sbcl/ccl/etc do anything special for continuations? 16:01:24 what continuations? 16:01:41 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 16:02:20 so continuations are entirely implemented in pure cl? 16:03:29 sorry, I'm a bit tired. I think I'm going to read the chapter on them again and maybe I'll get it tomorrow :P. 16:03:38 read drewc's article 16:04:00 axion: will do 16:04:08 night everyone! 16:04:09 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:21 chapter on continuations? 16:04:33 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:13 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 16:05:37 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:06:35 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:34 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:45 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-43.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:16 Gurragchaa [u6439@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwwcagxztxoovqht] has joined #lisp 16:10:22 ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has joined #lisp 16:10:49 -!- zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:10:52 i'm worried cornihilio was confusing continuations with conditions... 16:11:22 maybe he'll figure it out after some rest 16:11:35 zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:12:20 thats what i thought too 16:19:51 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:02 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:26 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has left #lisp 16:21:37 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:44 alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:03 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:31:41 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:56 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:16 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 16:35:43 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:35:53 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 16:37:00 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:42:01 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 16:42:14 Kvaks [~kvaks@7.158.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:44:06 pavelpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has joined #lisp 16:44:23 myx [~myx@pppoe-210-143-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:44:39 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:06 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:37 -!- Kvaks_ [~kvaks@34.157.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:44 -!- bitonic [~user@109.144.219.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:46:45 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:47:14 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:48:31 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:20 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-097-131-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:53:38 -!- snits [~snits@174-17-119-85.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:54:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:00 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:05 kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:32 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc04-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:32 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:39 -!- Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:47 Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 16:58:45 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:59:50 instrumaker [~instrumak@32.132.119.237] has joined #lisp 17:00:09 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:00:09 Hypocreale [~Hypocreal@c83-252-239-57.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 Heya :D How could I lisp-ify this sentence "Have you gotten hooked on lisp?" 17:01:30 (Have (you) (gotten hooked on) lisp?) 17:02:39 -!- instrumaker [~instrumak@32.132.119.237] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:13 -!- jsucsy1 [~JSU@69.38.243.200] has left #lisp 17:03:19 instrumaker [~instrumak@32.132.162.110] has joined #lisp 17:03:41 -!- instrumaker [~instrumak@32.132.162.110] has quit [Client Quit] 17:04:28 Hello, anyone aktive? 17:05:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:05:39 (list (have you) (gotten hooked) (on lisp)) 17:05:58 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Quit: Talk is cheap because the supply exceeds the demand.] 17:06:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:06:15 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.194] has joined #lisp 17:06:36 duko [~duko@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:19 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:57 blahfop [~AndChat60@204.14.12.196] has joined #lisp 17:08:13 wbooze, thanks but I made a slight miss. It should be "... hooked on lisp and parentheses?" 17:08:45 Hey is there any unofficial common lisp repl apks for android? 17:08:50 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-194.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:11:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.90.1] 17:11:59 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:19:59 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:20:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:41 AeroNotix [~xeno@aazz16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:21:12 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-194.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22:56 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:05 Anyone around? 17:23:09 sure. 17:23:56 Sure for the android question or the anyone around one? ^_^ 17:25:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:26:32 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 17:26:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:26:49 I think some have used ecl on android, but I have no experience with that, and am not sure if they used or developed anything for interactive development for android with it 17:26:57 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-194.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:27:08 You havr the 17:27:12 Dorry 17:27:35 Fail... Sorry. I'll look into that 17:27:36 but considering ecl includes an interpreter that can be used without a compiler, a repl should be possible 17:28:01 without a C compiler I mean 17:28:20 *nods* 17:28:24 (the interpreter bytecode is still technically compiled) 17:29:01 you could ask on the ecl development mailing list also 17:29:17 Will do. Thanks 17:29:49 So anyone doing any cool projects with lisp? 17:30:47 Eventually yes. 17:31:03 Hypocreale: (hooked-p you lisp) 17:31:12 my last one was an httpd, still a work in progress as time and motivation permits to add things like support for gd.. there are others here who do active development with it, but I'm not good with names 17:31:43 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.110] has joined #lisp 17:32:40 It's cool. I'm really interested in lisp but it motivates me more that people are actually doing stuff with it 17:32:41 blahfop: have you looked at cliki.net? 17:32:53 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00246c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:11 it's a nice site for links about publically available lisp code/projects 17:33:31 I have not. Thank you. 17:33:53 blahfop: As a coincidence, I am using wxMaxima for some maths at the moment. It is written in lisp. 17:34:09 Cool :) 17:34:11 blahfop: And it is opensource! 17:34:19 vityok [~user@193.109.118.129] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 -!- nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-136-212.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:25 nowhereman_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-108-173.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:34:32 Sweet. I'll take a look at that too 17:34:44 i found Solver at least that seems to be interesting..... 17:35:08 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:37 -!- rjmt___ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:37:14 Solver([me, myself, I], [month_begin, month_end]); => friday 13th 17:37:20 lol 17:37:36 Que? 17:38:17 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-194.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:38:25 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:42:50 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:44:20 bitonic [~user@dyn1216-194.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:44:29 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-oisbaduzhmyrdewb] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:45:10 lol what? 17:45:38 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:46:11 does the Solver return a string "headache" + "saturday 14th" ? 17:46:11 -!- blahfop [~AndChat60@204.14.12.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:25 blahfop [~AndChat60@204.14.12.196] has joined #lisp 17:46:46 What did I miss? 17:47:09 no it gives me an early latte! 17:47:30 lol 17:47:30 agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:30 I see 17:48:32 I'm sorry I must go. Thanks for the help 17:48:54 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 17:48:57 -!- blahfop [~AndChat60@204.14.12.196] has quit [Client Quit] 17:49:18 Hi all, please suggest something? http://paste.lisp.org/display/134140 17:52:05 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 17:54:05 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:15 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:54:34 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 17:54:43 hmm sorry you can forget about my post because even that is not really what I want: what I needed is the first output and then the rest newline separated to go within one cell of a speadsheet 17:55:35 so all the info would be in one row with columns, the 2nd of which will contain newlines 17:56:52 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aazz16.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:57:18 can you paste a new description then? 17:57:32 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:58:39 bc1 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has joined #lisp 18:00:03 stassats: I doubt what I need will work at all with output to a flat file like I am doing. I will have to use some library that outputs to a spreadsheet like MS Excel or the like 18:00:17 say I have an a list like ((5 a b c)(2 a b c)(3 e f g)) and I want to remove duplicates but only if all but the first element are equal, and I want to remove the higher one... 18:00:18 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:00:30 I have an OLE lib for lisp I will try to use 18:00:31 so I want that to become ((2 a b c)(3 e f g)) 18:00:58 I know remove-duplicates, but I'm not sure how to set the options to compare duplicates on all but the first element 18:01:09 use CDR 18:01:11 bc1: :key #'cdr 18:01:27 ok, thanks, I'll try that otu 18:01:28 out 18:01:38 but guaranteeing that it will keep the highest car is more difficult 18:01:44 lizzin [~lizzin@c-24-14-148-164.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:03 I can sort before removing duplicates 18:02:05 it's not, just sort it first 18:02:07 and then do from the end 18:02:08 -!- lizzin is now known as Guest98121 18:02:27 why from the end? 18:02:43 Rakko^ [~rakko@71-90-72-104.dhcp.ftbg.wi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:24 I'm really intrigued by the ability to make DSLs with macros. But I'm wondering: can a macro pick apart its arguments character by character, or does it only get a stream of tokens that the reader gives it? 18:03:24 Rakko^, memo from pjb: only toplevel eval-when forms are understandable. The thing is that :load-toplevel corresponds to loading a fasl file (load "s.fasl"), while :execute corresponds to loading a lisp source file (load "s.lisp"). Of course, :compile-toplevel corresponds to the compilation time (compile-file "s.lisp"). It's rather simple. 18:03:32 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1216-194.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:03:36 oh, thanks, minion & pjb 18:03:53 Rakko^: what macros are you talking about? 18:04:02 macros only work on s-expressions 18:04:06 like the loop macro has its own language inside 18:04:10 reader macros work on character streams 18:04:13 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.1] 18:04:19 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:04:20 loop is an ordinary macro 18:04:25 right 18:05:06 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 18:05:14 so if for instance I wanted to implement something with C-like syntax in a Lisp DSL, it would have to be a reader macro (i.e. so it could understand symbols and not just tokenized words or sexps)? 18:05:26 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:05:56 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:05:59 yes 18:06:02 minion: cl-python? 18:06:04 by "symbols" I mean non-letter/number ASCII characters like ( ) [ ] { } ; 18:06:04 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``cl-python''. 18:06:07 minion: clpython? 18:06:08 clpython: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/clpython 18:07:14 well, i don't know why are you concerned only with those characters 18:07:27 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:07:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:08:52 I see. http://common-lisp.net/project/clpython/manual.html#python-syntax 18:08:53 cool 18:09:39 stassats: actually I was thinking about how those characters in C have a function even if they are next to an alphanumeric word without any spaces in between -- while still clearly being separate tokens to C 18:10:02 if you want to parse a language with different syntax, you'll have to be concerned not only with parenthesis, but with interning symbols, reading numbers in the desired format, etc. 18:10:23 loop doesn't care about either of those, so it's just a macro 18:10:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:10:47 rainyman [~ra1nyman@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-129-252.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:10:58 ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has joined #lisp 18:11:01 Rakko^: the same in lisp, for example, (list a b c) 18:12:43 which are called terminating macro characters 18:12:53 clhs glossary/terminating 18:12:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_t.htm#terminating 18:12:54 ok 18:13:23 oh, nice 18:14:15 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:19:47 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:19:47 what is? 18:20:29 -!- Hypocreale [~Hypocreal@c83-252-239-57.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 18:20:51 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 18:23:58 -!- 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[~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:24:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:46 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:28:28 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 19:28:35 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:35:14 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:36 -!- nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36:45 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:40:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:43:45 -!- Forty-Two is now known as Forty-Elf 19:44:14 Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has joined #lisp 19:46:11 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 19:46:54 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:51 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:33 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:49:39 narmi [~sabayonus@91.140.158.137] has joined #lisp 19:50:12 hi 19:50:35 talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:50:55 can somene explain to me how to use emacs as a repl for cl because it isn't working for me 19:51:25 narmi: Do you have SLIME? 19:51:35 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 19:51:38 -!- alpha123 is now known as alpha123_gone 19:51:56 narmi: did you follow http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/? 19:52:06 yes i do have slime 19:52:18 H4ns: nope 19:52:23 but will do 19:52:24 narmi: do it. 19:52:26 narmi: :) 19:52:39 thanks! :) 19:52:55 narmi: when you say it doesn't work, what are the symptoms? 19:53:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:47 Gooder`` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 19:58:12 -!- Gooder` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:50 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 19:59:56 i type in (format t "hello wrold") 20:00:19 and press enter and then i go to lispinteractions and click read and eval 20:00:32 i get 3 errors 20:01:19 actually just one 20:01:30 "go to lispinteractions"? 20:01:36 what lisp do you use? 20:01:43 common 20:02:01 or so i hope 20:02:05 :S 20:02:10 what implementation? 20:02:20 sbcl is what i have installed 20:02:39 well, follow the post that i referenced step by step. 20:03:23 but when i go to the command line and type in sbcl i come up with "fatall error encountered it sbcl" 20:03:38 and then it says something about not being able to find the core 20:03:40 okay 20:03:41 will do 20:05:20 narmi: what platform are you on? 20:06:17 -!- Gooder`` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:27 Gooder`` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 platform? 20:07:50 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 20:08:20 tshile [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:28 -!- tshile [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:08:45 linux 20:09:06 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 20:10:20 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:55 pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:11:21 narmi: how did you install sbcl? 20:11:26 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:50 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:12:26 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:41 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 20:15:38 -!- alpha123_gone [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #lisp 20:16:34 Gooder``` [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 20:16:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-43.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:18:03 sudo equo install sbcl 20:18:43 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:48 equo is the package manager for sabayon 20:19:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:19:19 -!- Gooder`` [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:19:24 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:19:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:20:07 also the instructions that H4ns aren't working for me either 20:20:30 when i try to run the install script for sbcl 20:21:05 -!- bc1 [~derk@unlv-nat-131-216-14-39.dhcp.unlv.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:21:13 it tells me that on line 13 in install.sh output/prefix.def is not a file or directory 20:22:19 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 20:24:11 perhaps your installation is not complete 20:24:22 download and build from source 20:25:43 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A2F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:04 phidget 20:26:12 PuercoPo` [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 20:26:15 wrong channel 20:26:26 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:32 http://www.lostgarden.com/2007/05/dancs-miraculously-flexible-game.html -- ahah, there we have graphics to use for writing games in Lisp :) 20:27:52 narmi: what distro are you using? 20:27:55 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:13 sabayon, i would guess 20:28:19 imu96 [~sabayonus@37.37.148.94] has joined #lisp 20:28:30 -!- imu96 [~sabayonus@37.37.148.94] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:55 imu96 [~sabayonus@37.37.9.87] has joined #lisp 20:29:14 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:29:17 so i got sbcl installed 20:29:21 ah, i didn't read that 20:29:29 already have emacs up and running 20:29:31 <|3b|> dim: see also opengameart.org (and #lispgames channel) 20:29:44 AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:29:52 now just got quicklisp and configuration to go 20:30:04 thanks a lot (I think I'm already on the very quiet #lispgames channel) 20:30:18 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:36 Mandus_ [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 20:32:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:32:10 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 20:32:58 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:34:06 -!- 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#lisp 20:50:40 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:47 narmi [~sabayonus@149.147.185.150] has joined #lisp 20:51:09 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:51:18 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:35 hi 20:52:04 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 20:52:07 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@149.147.185.150] has quit [Client Quit] 20:52:07 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:52:09 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:32 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 20:53:14 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:05 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Quit: poof] 20:54:24 ASau [~user@46.115.114.209] has joined #lisp 20:57:15 is there a way i can call bash scripts in lisp? 20:57:43 or rather some linux network utils like ping and stuff 20:58:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:49 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:58:50 wicked_shell: http://www.cliki.net/inferior-shell 20:59:38 nice, can u point me to an example? 20:59:45 -!- dnolen [~user@64.124.192.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:28 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:01:35 wicked_shell: Yes, the repo's README :) 21:01:55 http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/qitab/inferior-shell.git;a=blob;f=README;h=a1632f98500726f9322c283521cb98f88f58f995;hb=HEAD 21:01:58 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:02:07 thx 21:03:34 i like the point in TODO : document it -,- 21:05:48 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:06:07 -!- pnpuff [~pnpuff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: ``sound of silence''] 21:10:50 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 21:12:02 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.204.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:12:23 Thra11_ [~thrall@113.18.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:17 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@185.159.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:14:59 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 21:15:16 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:27 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 21:19:21 is there a terminal emulator library for common lisp? something like https://github.com/selectel/pyte (for python) or emacs' (ansi-term) ? 21:20:50 *prxq* remembers something like that 21:20:53 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:21:24 i did quickload inferior-lisp and when i try to use the commands it gives me an undefined var error 21:22:15 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:22:46 you mean inferior-shell? 21:22:51 yeah 21:23:21 wicked_shell: are you in the right package / have you issued the right use-package? 21:23:21 im trying to do a simple ping google >> test.txt 21:23:59 prxq: how do i do that? 21:24:03 require? 21:24:06 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@113.18.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:24:16 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:24:22 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:54 i see - emacs autocompletetion 21:25:07 wicked_shell: (use-package :) 21:25:16 thx 21:25:33 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:44 is there a way to load packages with slime/emacs? adding it somehow to the rc? 21:25:52 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 21:26:19 wicked_shell: there are packages, and there are libraries, it's not the same 21:26:25 ow name-conflickt 21:26:31 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:26:51 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-112.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:17 i thought inferior-shell was a library 21:27:36 thats what it readme says 21:27:37 well it is, but inside of lisp it is a bunch of packages (at least one) 21:28:00 confusing ^^ 21:28:05 wicked_shell: you should read a book on lisp before going on. It will make it all easier 21:28:16 minion: tell wicked_shell about PCL 21:28:16 wicked_shell: direct your attention towards PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:28:37 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:50 im trying practicing stuff because reading the book any further just makes me skipp half the stuff 21:29:07 did only bash scripting before so most concepts are new 21:29:25 oh outch :-) 21:29:41 wicked_shell: http://weitz.de/packages.html may be a quicker explanation of packages. 21:29:49 yeah i need examples for usage before it tells me how arrays are faster than lists in some cases ^~ 21:29:56 ty 21:30:30 wicked_shell: makes sense. There is also something called the "gentle introduction to symbolic computation" by Dave Touretzky. It's a bit more basic. 21:30:54 i read parts of it too 21:31:51 arrays being faster than lists makes sense if you consider how to get the nth element of a list versus the nth element of an array. 21:31:51 ok 21:32:21 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:32:33 Bike: yeah i figured not going to all nested lists when searching last element is kinda faster, but i don't have examples of practice where i would need that 21:32:35 wicked_shell: what kind of stuff do you want to program? 21:33:33 i have a bash script collection for common SA stuff, want to first try to port some into lisp and then combine them to a suite 21:33:52 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:03 so i can easily create a new vm + folders for its backups and documentation into wiki etc 21:34:08 does lisp come with any builtins to turn something like "/some/web/article/33" into a (list "some" "web" "article" "33")? 21:34:12 wicked_shell: when you want constant-speed access time to get the nth element of a sequence? that seems pretty common 21:34:25 ahungry: no, but the puri library will help you with that. 21:34:31 ahungry: no, but there is a lib called split-sequence that does that 21:34:31 Bike: thanks! 21:34:38 prxq: you too 21:34:38 ahungry: or the split-sequence library if you don't want to be as robust. 21:35:11 Bike: not when your main task was to keep the cluster alive or integrate tech into it, not development 21:35:38 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:36:10 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:38 wicked_shell: that is not a very typical application domain for cl, but there are quite a few libs that can help you, e.g. osicat and other stuff. Be sure to check out cliki.net 21:37:31 prxq: i though that suite can get pretty big later, incorporating other vm engines, and some reading told me CL is very dynamic =) 21:37:37 *thought 21:37:52 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 21:38:17 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:38:18 also maybe i have to change things while its running... so idk ^^ 21:38:34 Thra11_ [~thrall@113.18.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:42 wicked_shell: yes, it is, and it is possible to do a lot of very complicated things without loosing control. 21:38:53 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:40:40 damn world is going towards cloudservices, might as well learn a language that lets me use the spare proccessing for writing an evil ai during my lunchtime ^~ 21:41:28 hehe 21:42:57 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:43:19 _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:22 noo i passed it without parameters, now its stuck in an endless loop -,- 21:45:52 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:55 C-c C-c 21:46:15 thx ^~ 21:46:24 -!- _travis_ [~travis@c-24-127-49-108.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:00 works! pure epicness ) 21:48:17 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:51:37 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:52:37 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:56:23 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 21:56:49 -!- drewc_ is now known as drewc 22:00:16 -!- joshee is now known as joshe 22:01:25 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 22:02:58 lufu [~user@5.254.133.22] has joined #lisp 22:04:04 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:00 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.43.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:03 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:09 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:08:02 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:08:10 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:10:07 -!- kofno_ [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:11 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 22:14:29 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aazv22.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:16:21 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:16:28 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@242.67-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 22:17:45 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-210-143-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18:04 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:18:30 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:19:28 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has joined #lisp 22:20:37 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:43 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.131.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:23:19 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:23:54 -!- francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:24:06 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:25:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011c68.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:35 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:30:12 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:31:45 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:11 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:12 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.92] has joined #lisp 22:37:55 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:37 normanrichards [~normanric@173-106-235-254.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:11 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@212.233.134.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:45 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:29 hi, I really suffer without stepper in sbcl. is stepper reasonably good in lispworks? 22:44:18 and will I have much PITA to alternate between lispworks and sbcl when working on the same software....? 22:44:23 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:19 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:46:13 any weblocks users here who could tell me how to make a simple search entry field in appropriate weblocks style? 22:47:34 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-228-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:49:27 anybody actually uses lispworks....? 22:50:06 puchacz: they may not be in this channel. but lispworks is big on their IDE so they probably have some good tools. 22:50:46 Bike: I would start from slime, as I know it very well.... 22:51:04 puchacz: i mean, including things like the stepper. 22:51:09 dnolen [user@nat/hackerschool.com/x-qidxvwkjomqngvpo] has joined #lisp 22:51:34 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-11-136.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:52:09 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Single-Stepping.html ? 22:52:32 hey Drew, it does not work very well.... 22:52:42 *drewc* does not use LW so has no idea what the stepper is/does 22:52:59 why does it not work very well? 22:53:15 skips forms, lands in random places after single stepping 22:53:35 I was asking on this channel before, and simply stepper is not a priority for sbcl devs 22:53:46 and you have debug declaimed? 22:54:01 C-u C-c C-c 22:54:37 same, isn't it? 22:54:44 sbcl single stepper only works in debug 3. 22:55:11 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Debugger-Policy-Control.html#Debugger-Policy-Control 22:55:34 is debug 3 same as C-u C-c C-c pls? 22:59:54 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:c847:b7b5:7dbe:4ed4] has joined #lisp 23:00:06 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:00:43 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@242.67-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:00:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:01:24 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@31.13-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 23:01:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-210-166.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:03:48 -!- Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 23:04:35 question: why do you want stepping to only step properly through the function you are compiling? 23:04:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:12 drewc: you know I can write long functions. 23:05:21 seriously, I will step over fragments I am not interested in 23:05:34 and c-u c-c c-c all functions I want to step into 23:06:09 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Client Quit] 23:06:29 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:18 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:32 and what does the SLIME manual say for C-u C-c C-c? 23:07:35 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:01 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:09:29 With (positive) prefix argument the form is compiled with maximal debug settings (C-u C-c C-c) 23:09:33 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Compilation.html#Compilation 23:09:50 so I guess you can't do better than that 23:11:34 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 23:13:10 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:13:29 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.242.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-151-0-105-198.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 23:14:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-151-0-105-198.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:14:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:15:00 hi! which one is the semi-official slime git repo currently? 23:15:08 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:15:12 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.133.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@236.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:15:41 this one seems to be quite a bit behind: https://github.com/antifuchs/slime 23:17:32 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:17:36 *attila_lendvai* pokes antifuchs, maybe he's still around 23:17:52 lodenrogue [~lodenrogu@66.233.49.252] has joined #lisp 23:17:53 -!- talas [~talas@136.144.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:18:06 hey guys I am trying to learn lisp. can you recommend any tutorials? 23:18:23 Practical Common Lisp is an online book 23:18:25 I used 23:18:28 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:45 ok I will search for that. Is there any IDE you recommend? 23:19:00 slime (emacs add-on) 23:19:07 thanks puchacz 23:19:07 installed by quicklisp 23:19:39 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:19:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:19:43 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-195-58.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 23:21:59 hey attila_lendvai1 23:22:10 attila_lendvai1: argh, sorry for that ): 23:22:20 I've been meaning to fix this for weeks now 23:22:38 lodenrogue: are you an 'experienced' programmer? 23:23:01 Yes I know C, Java, Lua, javascript 23:24:07 lodenrogue: http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ seems to be a decent intro 23:24:20 thanks antifuchs 23:24:21 ok, that answers my question, and is the exact opposite of 'yes' :) .. and regardless, I love "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" for a beginners book ... my wife has even gone through the first number of chapters adn she is not a programmer at all. 23:24:28 lodenrogue: all sorts of "getting started" links and such here: http://www.cliki.net/ 23:24:56 thanks guys 23:25:13 and beyond that, SLIME + emacs + sbcl or ccl is and ideal IDE 23:25:26 s/and/an 23:26:01 thanks drewc 23:26:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-130-43-211-80.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 23:26:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-130-43-211-80.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:26:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:27:51 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-195-58.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:29:34 pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:39 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:40 *felideon* also started with Gentle Intro 23:30:48 with a C# background 23:33:58 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@173-106-235-254.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [] 23:34:14 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:57 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-223-226-42.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:01 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:39:32 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:39:34 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 23:41:00 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-242-4.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 23:41:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:41:06 *jasom* should probably read a book on common lisp at some point 23:41:17 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:41:24 *jasom* learned using the hyperspec 23:41:32 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@31.13-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:41:42 and reading other peoples code 23:41:52 (note I don't suggest this approach at all) 23:42:39 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:53 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 23:47:43 antifuchs: no problem, it's not your fault that you can't fix the conservatism of the slime maintainer... :) on the other hand, thanks for keeping a git mirror! 23:47:50 haha 23:48:01 I hope it'lll soon be a non-broken one (: 23:48:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:50:38 *attila_lendvai1* just shakes his head quietly when he remembers the sorry state of the project organization of the main IDE of an entire language community... 23:51:34 if I consider how many able bodied lisp programmers are using slime, and compare it to how little it evolves... 23:53:06 calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-72-234.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 23:54:27 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:42 -!- calliostro [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-38-72-234.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:07 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 23:59:55 attila_lendvai1: there's development activity going on just, governance seems lacking