00:01:31 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:07:11 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:07:30 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:10:49 clhs rotatef 00:10:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_rotate.htm 00:11:20 robot-beethoven:  00:12:13 antoszka: ah, that's the one i needed 00:13:41 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.47] has joined #lisp 00:16:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:21:42 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 00:21:54 -!- sikaro [~sikaro@cpc15-nmal17-2-0-cust7.croy.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:53 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:26:21 -!- Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:37 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.40.123] has joined #lisp 00:34:05 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:35:09 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:24 ASau` [~user@46.115.54.12] has joined #lisp 00:39:34 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:52 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.105.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:40:27 chrono2200 [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:40:52 -!- rainyman [~ra1nyman@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-67-131.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:47:43 -!- PCChris [cyungmann_@dhcp-199-74-100-143.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:53:04 any suggestions for parsing large XML documents as a stream (i.e. the document is way to big to load the whole DOM tree) 00:53:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:56:49 jasom: CXML. 01:01:20 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kbvtxqxeffbhijtl] has joined #lisp 01:06:48 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-132-32.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:09 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has joined #lisp 01:13:57 -!- dabd [~dabd@a95-93-205-168.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:16 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:53 so, I have a function that gets called from a web interface. Said function inserts an entry into a hash table, but instead of the key being say 1 it is prepended with COMMON-LISP-USER:: can someone remind me why this is the case and how to call the function under the desired package? 01:21:18 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.195.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:21:28 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:41 <|3b|> you mean you have common-lisp-user::1 ? 01:21:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:22:20 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@63.251.54.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:22:43 -!- chrono2200 [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:22:57 |3b|: correct 01:23:18 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.200.230] has joined #lisp 01:23:35 |3b| correct 01:23:41 <|3b|> sounds like your web framework does some odd things 01:23:58 <|3b|> or else you do 01:24:13 it/I do admittedly 01:24:28 <|3b|> like interning parameters rather than keeping them as strings or converting them to some other useful data type 01:26:45 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:26:59 yes, I do for certain cases. I adds some flexibility but has its drawbacks of course 01:27:07 s/I/it 01:28:05 <|3b|> interning random user-controlled strings risks DOS from running out of resources if a malicious users starts sending random garbage 01:28:24 msmith1: to call something under a desired package bind *package*, but your example of 1 makes it unclear whether this is the issue or whether getting a symbol instead of a number is your issue 01:28:28 <|3b|> in addition to symbols being a rather odd way to store numeric values 01:28:48 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:29:04 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.37] has joined #lisp 01:29:21 francisl_ [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:29:51 <|3b|> as far as why you get the package prefix, you are probably printing it from some package other than cl-user, or otherwise displaying it in some way that shows packages for whatever reason 01:31:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:32:09 (parse-integer (symbol-name 'common-lisp-user::1)) <--- KLUDGE 01:32:26 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:32:53 *drewc* is using parse-integer for (hunchentoot:parameter "rate") atm 01:33:44 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:15 actually, not true .. READ-FROM-STRING! even worse than interning random strings :) 01:36:07 <|3b|> yeah, READ-FROM-STRING is bad :p 01:36:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:36:33 "what could #.(loop :go) wrong?" 01:36:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:38:46 wws [~billstcla@p-67-158-165-169.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:55 *|3b|* isn't even sure i'd count a DOS like that as something going wrong for that kind of bug 01:39:03 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:41:23 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:41:26 |3b|, :) 01:41:54 -!- biscarch [~chris@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:42:36 http://drewc.org/ips/monads.html#sec-7-4-3 <--- ok, there is the #'read-from-string code :) 01:42:55 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:43:37 *drewc* just rsync'd it with his C-c C-s 01:44:36 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:47 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:54 -!- wws [wws@clozure-4073EF4.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:47:20 as luck would have it, it is just a 'test' on the call/cc handler, so the reading does not matter because it will _not ever ever_ be public... but I should and a NOTE: about it regardless, because it is kind of silly 01:47:36 -!- wws [~billstcla@p-67-158-165-169.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:50 s/and a/add a/ 01:48:36 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:48:42 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:48:43 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:41 *|3b|* would probably replace it with parse-integer or parse-number rather than adding a note 02:00:39 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:37 yeah, good idea, I already have QL:QUICKLOAD in http://drewc.org/ips/monads.html#sec-7 , and it will take the same amount of time to add and replace vs the NOTE 02:01:51 PuercoPop [~user@190.233.220.217] has joined #lisp 02:04:32 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:05:02 -!- almaraz_ [~almaraz@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:47 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:11:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has joined #lisp 02:11:50 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:12:18 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:56 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:16:25 -!- dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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(defmacro sum (&rest args) `(apply #'+ (list ,@args))) 03:50:39 #'+ stands for (function +). #+ is a reader conditional, which is completely different 03:52:02 Bike: ah okay. so #' is the function namespace and ' is the symbol one? 03:52:31 ekko0 [~ekko0@cpe-76-173-97-158.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 <|3b|> ' is QUOTE which just returns its argument unevaluated 03:53:10 cornihilio: 'foo => (quote foo) 03:53:26 -!- piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.107] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:53:35 <|3b|> usually used to get symbols rather than evaluating the variable named by the symbol, but it works just as well on other things: '1 => 1, '"foo" => "foo", etc 03:54:43 thanks, I'm always forgetting cl stuff after I go to sleep :P. 03:55:48 *|3b|* also thinks there isn't anything 'correct' about that macro, #' or not 03:56:26 it's from on lisp, incidentally 03:56:28 do you know how apply works? 03:56:52 *|3b|* hopes it makes more sense in context 03:56:59 try this, (+ 1 2 3) (funcall #'+ 1 2 3) (apply #'+ '(1 2 3)) 03:57:16 `(apply #'+ (list ,@args)) makes sense 03:57:32 cornihilio: iirc on lisp has some rather questionable macrology 03:57:38 <|3b|> except you could just write `(+ ,@args) 03:57:43 Ravenium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:45 <|3b|> or replace the entire macro with + 03:57:48 (defun sum (&rest args) (apply '+ args)) 03:58:05 3b, and what context is that example on? 03:58:21 *|3b|* has no idea, haven't looked at on lisp in years 03:58:30 it's p. 104 if anyone is curious 03:58:32 ok, then don't take it out of context 03:58:43 Hello 03:58:49 *|3b|* didn't take it, it was given 03:58:55 hello ravenium 03:58:56 and it's rewritten as (defmacro sum (&rest args) (+ ,@args)) one line down lol 03:59:03 -!- Ravenium is now known as Corvidium 03:59:05 bingo 03:59:14 my bad 03:59:27 zardoz8 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 03:59:46 It seems the name Ravenium has already been taken 03:59:51 -!- Corvidium is now known as Cosman246 04:00:08 -!- Cosman246 is now known as Corvidium 04:00:40 k0001_ [~k0001@186.153.73.79] has joined #lisp 04:00:42 does lisp have something like interfaces? a promise that when class inherits from it, it has to define certain methods 04:00:57 zardoz8: Well, methods, don't work like in Java 04:01:09 that doesn't really make sense with how clos works, and also i don't think it's a good description of interfaces anyway? 04:01:12 i never mentioned java 04:01:13 Methods are defined for an arglist, not a given object 04:01:36 so? 04:01:45 so read up a bit on clos 04:02:13 classes don't go around talking about methods that will work on them, like he said, it's not java 04:02:14 <|3b|> CL doesn't have anything like that 04:02:31 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:02:38 methods on the other hands might talk about classes they will work on, by their argument list 04:03:03 so there is no way to remind the coder he has to define certain methods? 04:03:11 francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:03:16 <|3b|> define a default method that errors? 04:03:23 comments 04:03:35 comments aren't enforced by compiler 04:03:42 -!- benny [~user@i577A155E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:03:53 3b that would fail at runtime, I would prefer a compile time error 04:03:53 <|3b|> CL doesn't really do the 'enforced by compiler' thing too much 04:03:58 and definitions are? 04:04:10 the programmer can go there and change your code too 04:04:15 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host133.186-125-145.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:04:17 <|3b|> for one thing, you can't distinguish 'run time' from 'compile time' very easily 04:05:28 <|3b|> you can't define the methods before the class is defined, so you can't error when the class is defined 04:05:57 <|3b|> but you can't pick any other specific time to check automatically either 04:06:05 segmond that is irrelevant 04:06:22 *|3b|* supposes you could add your own contracts and check them yourself during compilation 04:06:32 contracts? 04:06:49 zardoz, then just defclass it 04:07:04 <|3b|> contracts as in "GF X must specialize on class Y" 04:07:07 if a method is needed, they will define it 04:07:27 ah 04:07:41 just like it's not a good idea to try to write C in lisp, it's not a good idea to try to write java in CLOS 04:07:49 |3b| how? as in write my own object system and use that instead of clos? 04:07:57 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 04:08:09 no as in extend CLOS 04:08:19 <|3b|> zardoz8: no, just use the MOP to check whether the methods you want were defined 04:08:19 segmond as if java is the only language with contracts 04:09:10 |3b| I don't see how that could be done at compile time when using clos. as you said you can't define a method before class is defined 04:09:25 <|3b|> zardoz8: compile time = run time = compile time 04:09:25 https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/cLRrER_KIgo there's an example for you there 04:09:47 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:57 <|3b|> you just need to run some code during compilation to check whatever contracts you want to define 04:10:22 |3b| no it's quite different if your fail fails to compile vs code failing at runtime when certain branch is executed 04:10:23 huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:29 if your code fails* 04:10:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:10:52 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:09 <|3b|> zardoz8: how is it different if your code fails during compilation die to something built in vs failing during compilation due to something you did by hand? 04:11:17 <|3b|> s/die/due/ 04:12:10 the sooner you forget java and c++, the easier your life will become 04:12:10 it's not. i it was a comment on "compile time = run time = compile time " 04:12:28 <|3b|> point is that you can run arbitrary code during compilation 04:12:44 clhs COMPILE 04:12:44 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for COMPILE. 04:12:52 <|3b|> including code to define contracts, and code to check them 04:13:02 |3b| yeah I see 04:13:24 I thought you meant that it doesn't matter if the code fails at runtime or compile time 04:13:34 clhs compile 04:13:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp.htm 04:13:52 Go get a copy of Object Oriented Programming in Common Lisp 04:15:07 Used copy for just under $10 04:16:56 *|3b|* supposes another way to think about it would be automatically generating some unit tests, then running them automatically 04:17:37 'compile time' vs 'run time' does not really exist in CL ... compile time is run time is compile time 04:18:04 I think it would be better to say that they exist, but you can do anything you can do at one time that you can do at the other? 04:18:12 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:18:16 :compile-toplevel and :execute, otoh, can be times that are specified 04:19:08 drewc I am not sure what you mean. for example if you try to define a defmethod that doesn't match defgeneric it will fail to compile. that's compile time error. if it failed when the code was executed that would be runtime error 04:19:38 Hello 04:19:52 ok, so does not matter when it is run or what time it is run at? 04:20:00 http://www.paulgraham.com/diff.html 9. The whole language always available. There is no real distinction between read-time, compile-time, and runtime. You can compile or run code while reading, read or run code while compiling, and read or compile code at runtime. 04:20:00 Running code at read-time lets users reprogram Lisp's syntax; running code at compile-time is the basis of macros; compiling at runtime is the basis of Lisp's use as an extension language in programs like Emacs; 04:20:18 Common Lisp does not have a 'run time' at all AFAIK :) 04:20:25 i think zardoz just wants to see errors during compile-file instead of during eval and that all these words are kind of pointless. 04:20:29 drewc: evaluate-time. 04:20:59 Bike exactly what i want yes 04:21:05 pkhuong: ok, that makes sense. 04:21:18 errors or warnings as early as possible are usually a good thing. I prefer syntactic solutions, though: make correct code more convenient to write, and incorrect one harder if not impossible. 04:21:31 zardoz8: as 3b said, you can do that fine with some well placed MOPping. 04:21:50 So, for instance, if 04:21:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:22:29 So, for instance, if you wanted to make sure a class definition is always accompanied by a couple method definitions, you could have a macro that defines a new subclass and the methods you want. 04:23:09 would it look similar to this then, from the users perspective? (defclass name () (:metaclass interface)) ? 04:23:32 or should I use a macro that expands to defclass 04:23:33 please don't use INTERFACE as the name of the metaclass! :) 04:23:58 or you can just leave a comment, if you define an abstract class, and the programmers using your code don't implment it, what will happen? 04:24:13 well no I thought it would be whatever the name of the interface was 04:24:18 *|3b|* would probably just have some specific mixins rather than a metaclass 04:25:04 simply because interface is already used, and does not mean whatever you think it means, but rather Interface Passing Style ... http://common-lisp.net/~frideau/lil-ilc2012/lil-ilc2012.html 04:25:05 <|3b|> then the 'check-interfaces' function would just find all subclasses, then check for directly specialized methods of the associated GFs 04:25:37 <|3b|> can you have mixins with different metaclasses? 04:26:08 and let me note that Lisp Interface Library have a CHECK-INVARIANTS method that checks the interface for the correct invariants 04:26:41 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:52 *|3b|* wonders if multiple dispatch would complicate checking for 'must define specific methods'... does (defmethod foo (x (y z))) count as implementing FOO for Z? 04:28:28 to define CHECK-INVARIANTS for this particular case, it is a simple METHOD-QUALIFIERS with FIND-METHOD 04:29:45 <|3b|> or for that matter, does something implementing a particular interface need to always be applicable? for example (defmethod foo ((x z) (y NIL))) specializes for Z but is never actually applicable 04:29:50 I think that it does, but heh, who knows and I would never have a contract like that at all, because it seems like a wee bit nonsensical to me. 04:31:41 *drewc* is actually working on INTERFACE/MONAD/TEST/MONAD:CHECK-MONAD-PLUS-IS-ASSOCIATIVE right now, so knows all about INTERFACEs and CHECK-INVARIANT 04:32:14 benny [~user@i577A1C97.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:32:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:32:57 drewc: quickchecking monad laws at load-time? 04:33:26 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:33:49 not at load time at all 04:34:18 basically, whenever CHECK-INVARIANT is run 04:34:41 right now woking on the test for this : 04:34:42 http://drewc.org/ips/monads.html#sec-2-5 04:35:00 working .. wok is good but I am coding, not cooking 04:36:06 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:02 and, at this point, check-invariant is simply run as part of my test suite 04:37:41 for the following monad/interfaces : 04:37:43 http://drewc.org/ips/monads.html#sec-1-1 04:37:52 -!- sw2wolf{away} is now known as sw2wolf 04:38:34 Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.118.118] has joined #lisp 04:38:38 and all the transformers transform the non-transformers and test them there as well, to make sure that things just work. ahh static types and dynamic types ... loads of fun 04:40:33 It seems there is no corresponding concept of `syntax object`, is there ? 04:41:01 clhs syntax 04:41:01 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for syntax. 04:41:22 clhs symbol 04:41:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_symbol.htm 04:41:58 then in CL, symbol is enough ? 04:42:04 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/02_.htm 04:42:20 exactly what are you talking about / mean / want etc? 04:43:47 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:43:53 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:13 thx, i am seeing some racket code whose macro is different from CL 04:44:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.179.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:44:56 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:06 wait, a completely different language has 'now for something completely different'? shows what I know. ;) 04:45:54 racket is lisp dialect too 04:46:15 and? 04:46:26 sw2wolf: This channel is Common Lisp specific, though. #racket and/or #scheme also exist. 04:46:31 <_tca> how convenient of it to have it's own name 04:47:15 sellout: i know , i want to study racket according to my CL knowledge :) 04:48:01 sw2wolf: we don't. 04:49:22 I feel the big difference is the macro i need to delve deeply 04:50:04 segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-173-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:20 heh ... so not learn anything at all and pick up a significant amount of bad Scheme habits? or... choose bad name for CL variables? :P 04:51:03 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:37 drewc: but i need to understand some racket code :( 04:51:54 or 'defmacro is not hygenic, syntax-case is... and yes, there is dawn and dusk, but night is still different from day 04:51:54 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.233.220.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:19 so, ask your questions in a related IRC chan! 04:52:41 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.249.3] has joined #lisp 04:52:58 i see 04:53:07 huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:48 *drewc* should set the /topic to start with "Common Lisp", maybe that would prevent such issues :D 04:55:11 good suggestion 04:55:13 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host106-212-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 04:55:16 meh, at this point i think lisp = common lisp 04:55:25 thats what i push for anyway 04:55:44 lisp > CL ,right ? 04:55:59 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-173-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 04:56:03 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 04:56:13 lisp is technically a family of languages, but i call the lisp family the "lisp family" and reserve "lisp" to mean common lisp 04:56:53 then this channel is just for CL 04:56:58 *drewc* does not think that (eq '|common lisp| '|lisp|) at all... but generally uses Lisp to mean lisp. not scheme 04:57:29 and #lisp, according to the topic ... is about Common Lisp generally 04:57:46 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:58:12 it seems #CommonLisp is better than #lisp ? 04:58:12 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 04:58:29 for lisp newbie 04:58:56 sw2wolf: then start it up, and when folks join, ask your questions about racket there. 04:59:21 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:40 why ask racket in #CL not #lisp ? 05:00:04 because you can make the /topic whatever you want 05:00:42 but #CL is specific to Common Lisp according to its channel name 05:00:49 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:00:50 Racket is a scheme ... scheme may be a dialect of LISP, but has its own channel, as does racket 05:01:07 so, then, start up #racket and ask you questions there 05:01:20 it there #CL channel ? 05:01:33 yes, it's called #lisp 05:01:38 wait a minute ... it already exists! and #emacs does as well! 05:01:54 haha 05:02:07 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:02:34 if you cannot read the /topic, then may I suggest that programming is not for you... there are specs, and docs, and standards ... and you cannot simply IGNORE them 05:03:18 i will ignore this message 05:03:19 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:03:37 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 05:05:49 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 05:06:14 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:06:17 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:06:19 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: no future] 05:08:02 rooftopjoe [bc1ba8cd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.27.168.205] has joined #lisp 05:08:40 hi. is lisp a safe language (in the sense java and c# are, except functional)? 05:09:19 in what way are java and c# safe? 05:09:50 no returns to libc, i suppose 05:10:11 zardoz8: in the way c is not 05:10:19 as in, "managed"? 05:10:53 rooftopjoe it won't unexpectedly crash or silently corrupt your data if that's what you're asking 05:10:57 i've never gotten a segfault from any lisp implementation without calling out to C 05:11:29 so basically, a system running only c code wouldn't need hardware protection, would it? 05:11:33 as in a mmu 05:11:41 only lisp code, not c 05:11:42 sorry 05:11:43 :) 05:13:09 ignoring bugs and FFI lisp code shouldn't segfault 05:13:23 (implementation bugs) 05:13:46 yes, ignoring bugs in the compiler 05:13:53 mmu's can have bugs do, anyway 05:14:06 bugs too* 05:14:08 if you want an mmu-less system i think you'd be better off looing at capabilities stuff. 05:14:27 <|3b|> CL lets you pick performance over safety, so on most implementations you can write (not conforming) code that will crash or otherwise behave badly 05:14:48 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:15:19 what would such non-conforming code do? 05:15:21 yeah I forgot (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0))) 05:15:27 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:15:31 i am new to lisp :) 05:16:11 it could disable all the safety checks (expample checking for array boundaries, types etc) to gain performance 05:16:14 rooftopjoe: implementation-dependent stuff. say, segfaulting. 05:16:32 well, "undefined" would be a better way of putting it, probably 05:16:41 huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:44 like, accessing off the end of an array is undefined in C 05:16:48 (and could cause a crash) 05:17:04 segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-173-239.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:17 (let (list) (loop (push #:foo list))) <--- does using up all the RAM count? 05:17:18 yeah, that's what i wanted to know. so you can go out of bounds in lisp as well' 05:17:38 rooftopjoe: lisp invented garbage collection, if that's what you're asking 05:17:44 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 05:18:15 rooftopjoe: yeah, that's why i'd suggest looking at systems dedicated to process isolation through means other than virtual memory, rather than staring at lisp machines. 05:18:17 <|3b|> rooftopjoe: CL can also be configured to prefer safety over performance, in which case most errors should be handled nicely 05:18:39 3b does it have to be configured? isnt that default? 05:19:05 <|3b|> it doesn't generally protect you from malicious code though (but malicious cod could do bad things like deleting files without relying on undefined behavior anyway) 05:19:25 Bike: means like what? :D 05:19:31 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:20:23 if we are nitpicking about (declare (optimize (safety 0)) then C# is not safe either since it has C pointers built into the language 05:20:25 well, could the code be verified, in the same sense bytecode is? 05:20:32 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:20:36 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 05:20:43 or is that a property specific to another type of languages? 05:21:00 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:16 rooftopjoe: don't remember any links at present, sorry. it's os design stuff. 05:21:17 *|3b|* doesn't think that is inherent to 'bytecode' 05:21:33 <|3b|> or if it is, there are CL implementations that compile to bytecode 05:21:40 rooftopjoe: and you could verify anything given a ridiculous enough prover. 05:21:50 maye things like segmentation 05:21:54 maybe* 05:22:04 <|3b|> Bike: unless you try to verify things that include the prover and use it to change their behavior :p 05:22:08 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:22:23 rooftopjoe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capability-based_addressing here, maybe 05:22:56 nice 05:22:58 thanks 05:23:34 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:22 -!- rooftopjoe [bc1ba8cd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.27.168.205] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:27:13 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:57 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:05 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:48 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:31:00 -!- vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-eufcirtoirgnwgwt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:31:03 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:33:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-54-86.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:35:57 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.0.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:18 -!- EasyAt is now known as Michail1` 05:38:28 -!- Michail1` is now known as EasyAt 05:40:21 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:42:57 -!- ekko0 [~ekko0@cpe-76-173-97-158.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:43:04 does anyone have any experience with log4cl? I'm trying to log to a relative directory instead of /tmp/logfoo.txt and I'm having a lot of trouble getting it to work https://gist.github.com/4256165 05:43:40 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:51 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:44:08 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:44:42 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:44:55 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:45:07 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:45:10 arquebus [~arquebus@174-125-124-180.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:18 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:20 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-24-131-173-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:45:31 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:24 -!- zardoz8 [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 05:49:02 Codynyx [~cody@c-24-131-173-7.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:55 -!- arquebus [~arquebus@174-125-124-180.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:12 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.40.123] has left #lisp 05:55:26 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 05:56:16 Posterdati [~antani@host106-212-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:02:57 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 06:05:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pivadggingtlpqbd] has joined #lisp 06:05:14 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pivadggingtlpqbd] has quit [Changing host] 06:05:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:06:52 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.88.229] has joined #lisp 06:08:26 huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-189.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:13:38 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 06:21:28 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:25:02 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.169] has joined #lisp 06:26:22 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:27:33 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 06:28:24 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:29:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:29:39 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:54 axion1 [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:32:19 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:32:25 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:32:25 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 06:35:28 -!- axion1 is now known as axion 06:37:14 hunchentoot: can a dispatch function pass some arguments to a handler function? 06:37:56 it returns the handler function, which can be any function that can be called 06:38:13 so you can use e.g. alexandria:curry to pre-set some arguments. 06:38:26 or just return a lambda that closes over some variables of your liking. 06:38:46 hmm, doesn't work for (define-easy-handler) ... that accepts a :uri lambda, but that cannot pass anything 06:39:21 define-easy-handler is something else. 06:40:00 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:23 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has joined #lisp 06:40:30 yes, I wanted to use the argument parsing of that with a custom dispatch function. 06:40:52 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:31 the parameter parsing is not available separately, sorry 06:42:24 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 06:44:28 oh, there's hunchentoot::computer-parameter, which I'd have used in a macro. 06:44:34 but never mind, I found a cleaner solution. 06:45:17 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:45:41 -!- alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: alpha123] 06:46:45 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.200.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:47 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.88.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:49:07 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:10 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.88.229] has joined #lisp 06:51:22 does anyone have any experience with log4cl? I'm trying to log to a relative directory instead of /tmp/logfoo.txt and I'm having a lot of trouble getting it to work https://gist.github.com/4256165 06:51:23 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 06:52:14 cornihilio: please do not repeat questions 06:52:22 Is :allow-other-keys t still state of the art when passing a &rest to another function? Or would it be better style to filter out any non-allowed keyword arguments? 06:52:26 cornihilio: if you do not get an answer here, ask somewhere else. 06:52:44 flip214: what do you mean by "state of the art" or "better"? 06:53:18 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:53:24 H4ns: sorry about that. 06:55:30 H4ns: I'd like to hear from people with more experience than me whether :allow-other-keys is "good enough" or even better than filtering 06:55:56 and some things described in clhs are deprecated, un-deprecated, etc. ... therefore "state of the art" 06:56:08 :allow-other-keys is deprecated? 06:57:28 I don't know, that's why I'm asking. 06:57:30 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-102-47.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:44 flip214: why don't you look at the spec? 06:58:00 what's :allow-other-keys? 06:58:10 sykopomp: it's a pretty cool feature 06:58:23 sykopomp: &allow-other-keys on the call side, if you will 06:58:26 never heard of it 06:58:34 sykopomp: you rookie. 06:58:41 :o 06:59:04 H4ns: :o 06:59:12 how have I never run into this? 06:59:13 flip214: but never mind me, the answer is "no, :allow-other-keys t is fine" 06:59:15 I've used &allow-other-keys a lot 06:59:30 sykopomp: it took me 10 years to discover it. 06:59:53 you've cut my time down to about 5. Thanks. 07:00:10 sykopomp: thank flip214 07:00:12 now I can brag that it took me half the time it took h4ns 07:00:31 H4ns: I *did* look at the spec. But thinking of REMOVE-IF-NOT, CDRs, and so on, I wanted to tap the knowledge _here_. 07:00:37 flip214: thanks, flip214 07:01:05 sykopomp: you're welcome. I only needed 3. 07:01:10 (years, that is.) 07:02:08 I don't even know how to find it in the spec. Argh. 07:03:05 aha! 07:03:07 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_dada.htm 07:03:09 AHA 07:03:27 I feel like I deserve a certificate. 07:03:33 i guess the logic is that keyword parsing is slow enough already, why not make it a bit more useful? 07:03:44 sykopomp: you earned the "clhs digger" batch 07:04:03 sykopomp: Franz afaik did offer some kind of certification... :P 07:04:44 CLHSpelunker 07:06:08 CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:19 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@96-26-56-167.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:06:54 cornihilio: i feel sorry to have recommended log4cl 07:07:13 cornihilio: maybe you want to look at the alternatives, too, if you cannot figure it out. 07:07:58 i am using logrcl 07:08:00 have not problems 07:08:16 cornihilio: cl-log has just been praised: http://www.nicklevine.org/cl-log/ - and nick is a well-respected common lisper who'd not resort to ugly java-likeness for anything. 07:08:21 log4cl 07:08:39 antonv: maybe you can help cornihilio then? 07:08:55 he says he has lot of truoubles 07:09:06 but I don't have 07:09:15 isn't it helpful? 07:09:36 i mean we know now it can work 07:10:47 cornihilio: how you you specify the relative log file? 07:11:46 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:12:08 I specify log file like this: (log:config :daily (log-file agent) :immediate-flush) 07:12:28 the log-file is the function returning the path to the log file 07:13:24 Short question: I think it's a common suggestion to use PCL as first introduction to Common Lisp, right? 07:13:45 unless user configured another value, it is a path relative to the source code. It is computes using helper function (defun src-dir() (asdf:system-relative-pathname :test-grid-agent #P"agent/")) 07:13:53 mhi^: for somewhat experienced programmers, yes. 07:14:22 mhi^: for unexperienced people, "a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" is often recommended. 07:15:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:16:36 H4ns: Okay, thanks. 07:24:56 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.40.123] has joined #lisp 07:26:09 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:26:47 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:26:55 sorry for the late reply, turns out (surprise) it was my own fault and I misspelled something. 07:27:20 H4ns: but log4cl is very useful, with good documentation, but I just wish there were more alternative examples 07:27:51 antonv: I think I might just copy your suggestions, thanks :)! 07:32:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:51 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 07:38:59 -!- theos is now known as Guest15965 07:39:37 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:41:50 -!- Guest15965 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:42:18 -!- orthecreedence [~kvirc@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:43:07 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012732.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:18 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:44:39 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:45:51 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:52:32 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.40.123] has left #lisp 07:54:54 -!- ASau` [~user@46.115.54.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:03 boushko [~boushko@95-25-139-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:56:09 -!- boushko [~boushko@95-25-139-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 07:57:29 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:06 -!- CatMtKing [~chrono220@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:25 -!- hdcool09 [~hdcool09@cpe-174-102-84-137.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:54 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:06:58 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-179.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:07:14 hdcool09 [~hdcool09@cpe-174-102-84-137.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:16 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:07:56 -!- ered [~ered@2001:470:8:a21:8e89:a5ff:fe15:4aa0] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:11:15 ered [~ered@2001:470:8:a21:8e89:a5ff:fe15:4aa0] has joined #lisp 08:11:18 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 08:13:09 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 08:15:48 -!- les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:15:56 les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:56 -!- les [moreorles@lesharris.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:15:56 les [moreorles@fsf/member/les] has joined #lisp 08:16:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:16:42 engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 08:17:14 lance_ [~lance@77.237.117.192] has joined #lisp 08:17:31 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:17:38 -!- lance_ is now known as Guest38985 08:18:00 -!- Guest38985 is now known as lance- 08:18:20 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uxggoxidvlrniipe] has joined #lisp 08:19:57 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 08:20:46 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:22:24 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 08:25:44 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:29:09 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:35:59 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 08:37:21 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:42:18 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 08:44:58 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 08:45:56 can someone explain to me how to use with-output-to-sequence to write a binary to a file? the binary is stored as a (SIMPLE-ARRAY (UNSIGNED-BYTE 8)) 08:48:24 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:48:28 cornihilio: Isn't the point of flexi-streams:with-output-to-sequence to _not_ write to a file? 08:48:44 cornihilio: what is with-output-to-sequence? (which, guessing from its name, would allow you to use write-byte and friends to create an in memory sequence, not a file) 08:48:46 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 08:48:50 yeah, what chr said. 08:48:54 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 08:49:08 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:49:10 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-fpadniaggpbidfbj] has joined #lisp 08:49:13 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:33 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 08:49:47 if you want to write to a file (with-open-file (stream filename :direction :output :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) (write-sequence binary-sequence stream)) 08:50:00 and there are some helpers in alexandria to make that more leggible. 08:50:22 I'm trying to use that function/flexi-streams because of this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7441992/how-to-create-a-binary-stream-not-a-file-in-common-lisp 08:51:30 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:53 segv-, chr: thank you, I'll look into that 08:51:55 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:52:12 you can create an in memory (backed by a byte array) stream with flexi-stream:make-in-memory-output-stream 08:52:20 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 08:52:21 you can write-char and write-byte to that stream 08:52:50 and the use flexi-streams:get-output-stream-sequence to get the bytes back 08:53:06 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 08:53:06 (i'm not sure if, like get-output-stream-string, that function returns a new vector each time) 08:53:42 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:54:01 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:54:47 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 08:54:50 segv-: I don't understand. are you saying I shouldn't store the binary as an unsigned-byte 8? 08:55:44 cornihilio: i'm not sure i understand what you're trying to do. so i'm limiting myself to telling you what the various functions (afaicr) in flexi-streams do 08:55:49 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:57:26 cornihilio: if you have a vector and you just want to dump the raw bytes to a file see my example on with-open-file 08:59:49 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:00:54 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:16 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc08-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:09:49 snits [~snits@174-17-119-85.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:33 -!- snits [~snits@174-17-119-85.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:10:57 c_arenz [~arenz@82.113.99.151] has joined #lisp 09:13:35 xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:51 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:15:24 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:15:42 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@82.113.99.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:16:42 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-225-51.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:02 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-225-51.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:54 when did symbolics.com (the domain) get bought by xf.com? (a "virtual real-estate" / "domain investment" firm) 09:17:56 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.142.235.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:19 leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.142.235.160] has joined #lisp 09:18:44 i could have just googled that, pardon the noise. 09:19:06 nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-136-212.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:19:24 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kbvtxqxeffbhijtl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:24 -!- postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:19:53 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:20:22 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:20:22 -!- tdmackey [~tdmackey@booleanhaiku.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:20:44 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pwxkizjbbsbehddl] has joined #lisp 09:20:48 tdmackey [~tdmackey@booleanhaiku.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:51 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:02 postfuturist [~postfutur@stevegoss.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 09:22:06 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:36 bniels [~niels@p4FD6E7C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:47 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-136-212.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:23:38 skanev [~aquarius@109.58.188.148.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 09:24:43 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:26:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:50 let's say i have a list '(bird tree forest), and i want to use this list to sort a related list '("forest.png" "bird.png" "tree.png") into '("bird.png" "tree.png" "forest.png")... what's the most natural way to do this? 09:29:29 do you want to sort the symbols and then create the resulting strings? or create strings and then sort those? 09:30:08 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 09:31:07 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:31:12 i'm confused how you figure out that bird (the symbol) should be the posiiton of "bird.png" (the string) 09:31:29 i want to sort one list to match the other one... so use the list '("bird" "tree" "forest) to sort '("forest.png" "bird.png" "tree.png"), resulting in ("bird.png" "tree.png" "forest.png") 09:31:34 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-132-32.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 09:31:37 sorry, never meant to use symbols earlier 09:32:16 c_arenz [~arenz@82.113.98.160] has joined #lisp 09:32:39 is the ".png" part constant? 09:32:47 (then we colud ignore the second list all together) 09:33:10 segv-: brilliant 09:33:23 i was over-complicating this 09:35:13 (fwiw, if it wasn't constant i'd still go for a very dumb (and procedural and stateful and non-functional) two pass solution (walk first list to map prefix to position; generate result list; walk second list putting item into result list based on value from walk of first list)) 09:38:35 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:41:10 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:19 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:27 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@189.143.118.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:44:30 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@82.113.98.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:48:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:50:00 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:55:47 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:56:42 -!- skanev [~aquarius@109.58.188.148.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:00:15 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:00:34 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 10:02:12 -!- lance- [~lance@77.237.117.192] has quit [Quit: lance-] 10:04:01 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 10:04:14 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@186.153.73.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:07:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:14 nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 10:09:20 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:59 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:14:22 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.88.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:16:28 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.88.229] has joined #lisp 10:17:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-189.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:35 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:20:10 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:23:32 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756fab.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:51 skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lisp 10:36:13 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:38:34 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:46:26 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:46:32 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:48:27 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 10:49:40 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756fab.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:55:04 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:06 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 10:56:53 In paredit-mode, you can raise the N next s-expressions by prefixing M-r with a numerical argument. Would it be silly to want to raise _all_ the next s-expressions? 10:59:18 *chr* tries paredit-splice-sexp-killing-backward 10:59:18 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 10:59:21 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:59:44 chr: try M-up on the first subexpression 11:00:07 Yup, that seems to be it, thanks jdz. 11:00:10 chr: yeah, it's bound to that one 11:00:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:03:25 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.88.229] has left #lisp 11:08:13 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:11:39 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 11:14:25 Kvaks_ [~kvaks@72.160.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 11:14:36 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 11:15:59 -!- hdcool09 [~hdcool09@cpe-174-102-84-137.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:16:18 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:17:55 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@84.159.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:20:32 bitonic [~user@host-92-26-82-75.static.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:38 -!- bitonic [~user@host-92-26-82-75.static.as13285.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:47 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:27:27 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:27:34 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:21 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 11:29:36 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:30:26 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-196-125.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:55 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:33:21 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 11:37:57 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-6-229.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:38:20 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:55 tuxskar [~skar@126.Red-81-32-154.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:06 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-102-47.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:39:11 -!- skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: skanev] 11:39:12 -!- tuxskar [~skar@126.Red-81-32-154.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 11:40:00 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:40:27 bitonic [~user@host-92-26-82-75.static.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:38 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has joined #lisp 11:46:24 sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@182.148.94.31] has joined #lisp 11:47:34 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:48:16 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:48:22 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:49:00 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57:23 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 12:00:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@113.Red-83-49-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:15 minion: memo for robot-beethoven: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134123 12:02:15 Remembered. I'll tell robot-beethoven when he/she/it next speaks. 12:02:47 -!- bitonic [~user@host-92-26-82-75.static.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:12 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 12:07:15 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:09:24 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.88.229] has joined #lisp 12:11:13 -!- sw2wolf [~sw2wolf@182.148.94.31] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:13:10 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:15:50 I have a case in which a recursive function throws an error and provides a restart. I'd like to programmatically call the restart for a given name which is nested the deepest, is that possible? 12:16:42 madnificent: where's the problem? 12:17:38 how do i know which is the deepest nested offered restart 12:17:47 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_r.htm#find-restart 12:17:52 madnificent: the first one will be the deepest one 12:17:54 > If identifier is a symbol, then the innermost (most recently established) applicable restart with that name is returned. 12:18:07 Ah madnificent. 12:18:32 abeaumont [~abeaumont@113.Red-83-49-116.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:45 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:18:45 jdz: no, it will be the most recently established, thus the one most on the outside 12:18:49 hello Bacteria! 12:19:04 madnificent: are you sure? 12:19:18 madnificent: that somehow conflicts with my understanding of "recursive" 12:19:18 Hello! 12:19:21 no, i'm not. it says innermost and most recently established, which is confusing 12:19:21 madnificent: recently = Closer to the point in time when find-restart is called :) 12:19:30 -!- Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:51 naryl: yes... so i'd say that it's not the most deeply nested one 12:20:00 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 12:20:33 madnificent: imagine you call (sleep60) on each recursion 12:20:56 madnificent: after establishing a restart 12:21:13 sleep doesn't change the order of execution or anything, what does that have to do with it? 12:21:21 also, (sleep60) or (sleep 60) ? 12:21:42 madnificent: it will help you calculate time to see which is more recent 12:21:52 i have no other idea how to help you, sorry 12:21:55 *madnificent* dubs that irrelevant 12:21:58 madnificent: Just try it 12:22:02 NO 12:22:09 i will not waste 10 minutes with this 12:22:23 but i get the point. the restart is established when you enter the function, not when you throw the error 12:22:38 madnificent: no, the restart is established when it is established 12:22:39 thanks 12:22:53 madnificent: The project you helped me with. So I was able to successfully process the human genome and we were comparing it against the experimental data. Unfortunately, the comparison was taking days and stopping other jobs from running so we've put it on hold for a while. But I was able to get a little under half of the genome processed. 12:22:59 functions do not establish restarts 12:23:12 Bacteria: did you find something interesting? 12:23:18 Indeed 12:23:54 jdz: close enough. you get what i mean. the restart isn't established when the error is thrown, which was the misconception. now walk on :) no need for random fuss 12:25:28 madnificent: The restart is established by a few macros. 12:25:34 Btw do you use sbcl? :) 12:25:44 Actually doesn't matter 12:25:56 ehu [~ehu@109.35.219.3] has joined #lisp 12:26:02 madnificent: Run macroexpand on restart-case. ;) 12:26:07 Odyessus_ [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:26:29 And everything about restarts should become obvious. :) 12:28:24 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:28:24 -!- Odyessus_ is now known as Odyessus 12:28:33 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@150.167-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 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timeout: 264 seconds] 18:17:17 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:19:08 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 18:21:12 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:21:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:22:34 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:22:50 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:07 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:25:32 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:06 this channel seems dead these days 18:26:15 not a lot of activity here 18:27:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:27:25 end of the year so people might be taking breaks 18:27:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:28:33 i remember someone talking about an idea of building a correlation between channel activity and activity on lisp related projects on github 18:28:43 dead? why we are all chatting in private 18:29:00 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 18:31:57 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:32:05 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:32:55 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 18:33:02 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:33:02 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:24 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:36:27 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 18:37:30 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:38:00 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:38:20 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 18:39:37 ehu [~ehu@109.35.68.29] has joined #lisp 18:39:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 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joined #lisp 19:03:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:04 -!- moai [~m@fp-192-52-24-214.mobile.uni-freiburg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:32 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:05:43 saac [~saac@a85-138-109-155.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:06:48 dead? yay! 19:09:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:09:46 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has joined #lisp 19:09:57 -!- Raptum_ [~cdh473@50.96.99.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:10:04 Raptum_ [~cdh473@50.96.154.117] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 *prxq* blames the somewhat overly strong topic enforcement 19:12:54 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 19:12:57 it's only *mostly* dead 19:13:01 pirateking9_9 [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 19:13:15 prxq: join #lispcafe, which is starting to pick up a bit (perhaps for the same reason) 19:13:32 -!- bonch [~bonch@174.137.69.7] has quit [Quit: The computer fell asleep] 19:13:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:15 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14:15 -!- pirateking9_9 is now known as pirateking-_- 19:14:17 jasom: I'm in it already :-) 19:14:30 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.141.158.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:15:14 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-168-118-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:32 but truth be told, it's really dead, even ##prolog is much more busy 19:16:02 AeroNotix [~xeno@ccn242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:16:25 No. 19:17:30 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:17:56 sorry, I can't resist that prolog joke, no matter how old it is. 19:19:38 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:20:54 billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-81-122.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:54 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-216-227-81-122.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:20:54 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:22:35 prxq: :D 19:23:02 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:23:55 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:06 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 19:24:14 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 19:24:39 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 19:25:08 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-001-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:24 alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:32 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.43.101] has joined #lisp 19:31:37 engblom` [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has joined #lisp 19:33:16 ASau [~user@46.115.80.102] has joined #lisp 19:33:17 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:33:34 -!- engblom` is now known as engblom 19:37:15 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@ccn242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 19:38:26 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:56 heya, drew. what's shakin'? 19:39:03 AeroNotix [~xeno@ccn242.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:40:17 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.92.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:42:09 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-166-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 19:45:21 k0001 [~k0001@host246.181-1-203.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:46:41 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 19:48:43 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host143.190-229-210.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:51:04 add^_ 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[vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-meqkwztexujbxcej] has joined #lisp 20:06:29 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:08:26 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:51 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 20:10:00 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-48-12.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:27 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:17:03 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 20:18:58 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:35 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012732.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:22:52 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012732.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:21 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:20 Fade: whole lotta shakin going on! and you? 20:27:32 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.80.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:53 awwwu yeah, we got some strippers in #lisp 20:27:57 well, still in the ring, so it could be worse :) 20:28:09 ASau [~user@46.115.80.102] has joined #lisp 20:29:38 hello. has anybody expieriences with trivial-shell? it returns something the documentation calls "output", but is this a binary stream or a string (or whatever)? and same for the "input" one has to provide. 20:29:53 schoppenhauer: have you tried it? 20:31:03 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 20:33:25 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:33 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:33:35 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:34:37 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-225-51.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:45 sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:28 pkhuong: no. 20:36:19 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-203-78.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:25 <|3b|> is monkeylib-binary-data reasonably fast/easy to use? any other options worth looking at for binary file parsing libs? 20:37:08 I use it and it works pretty well. I was thinking of looking at the fastio thing that was on planet.lisp though. 20:37:16 perhaps they can be used together 20:37:26 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-76-21-4-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:38:05 |3b|: https://github.com/slyrus/iso-media uses monkeylib-binary-data (gigamonkey, can you plz come up w/ shortner names?) 20:38:22 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1167960209.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:36 slyrus: you could make a local nickname for the package 20:40:43 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.19.237] has joined #lisp 20:41:43 heh ... longer names and local package aliases are on my list of things I want/need/already do 20:41:44 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:43:14 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:22 slyrus: yeah, I've migrated some of my libs to shorter names. 20:45:58 ALL of my modern package start with :drewc.org ... (defpackage :drewc.org/ips/monad/test/monads ...) for example 20:46:02 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:05 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:43 drewc: no alias? 20:47:43 but, of course, every file has its own package ,and I use the defpackage for to decide what files need to be compiled/loaded before this file ... so, I think that I am kind of out there these days afaik 20:48:22 alias for a testing package ... non, it does not have one. 20:48:43 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:18 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:25 drewc: but the others, are they named eg :drewc.org/ips/modad/utilities/monad/etc ? 20:49:36 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 20:52:14 -!- nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:39 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:57 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012732.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:24 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:53:36 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:46 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:56 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:10 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:46 wws [~billstcla@p-74-209-18-215.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:56 -!- wws [wws@clozure-72EFD0A9.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 20:55:00 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:56:10 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012732.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:35 *|3b|* will try monkeylib-binary-data, can't be worse than the random hack i've been using :p 20:56:39 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58:03 |3b|: I find that treating the input as iso-8859-1 works well, then it's no longer binary data, it's character data :) 20:59:56 prxq: yes ... well, I do not have a file at ~/drewc.org/src/drewc.org/modad/utitities/monad/etc.lisp ... but ... 21:00:45 *jasom* should make a library for doing that transparently. It's rather nice as you can do stuff like use the readtable and reader macros and stuff like that for efficient and terse code 21:01:10 (length (loop :for pn :in (mapcar #'package-name (list-all-packages)) :when (ignore-errors (string-equal "drewc" pn :end2 5)) :collect pn)) => 18 21:01:44 so, 18 files in my current library, each with their own package 21:02:08 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.68.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:02:56 the only real downside is that it's technically non-portable as only simple characters can portably have syntax types 21:03:03 drewc: why do you do this 21:03:45 sykopomp: for a number of reasons. 21:05:23 (loop for package in (list-all-packages) counting (ignore-errors (string-equal "drewc" (package-name package) :end 5))) 21:05:24 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.249.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:05:30 or somesuch 21:05:41 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-56-228-105.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:46 why do I do that? because prxq asked me? 21:05:51 <|3b|> jasom: interpreting binary data as characters sounds counterproductive 21:06:40 |3b|: except theres all sorts of things you can do on character streams that you can't do on binary streams 21:06:43 <|3b|> at best it just adds an extra step of calling char-code to get back to an octet i can assemble into whatever data type i really want 21:07:00 actually even nicer if you use COUNT 21:07:01 :D 21:07:03 <|3b|> jasom: and how many of them are useful for parsing a compressed binary image file? 21:07:08 drewc: you cons too much D:< 21:07:37 |3b|: no clue; it's useful for a lot of non-compressed structured data though 21:08:09 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:08:25 sykopomp: CONS to much for what exactly? 21:08:48 snits [~snits@inet-hqmc06-o.oracle.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-189.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:49 k0001_ [~k0001@host217.186-109-108.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:08:49 <|3b|> even uncompressed, if i just want to read a unsigned 32 bit little endian word, or a big endian ieee single float, characters just get in the way 21:08:52 your counting 21:10:18 oh .. well in that case ... take the next 10 hours and write my a whole bunch of better ones, so next time prxq asks me the same question, I can avoid consing! 21:10:35 <|3b|> (and all this assumes you are lucky enough to have a format that aligns things to multiples of 8 bits, which isn't always true) 21:11:04 paul0 [~paulo@177.132.101.212] has joined #lisp 21:11:39 drewc: (count "drewc" (list-all-packages) :test (lambda (drewc maybe-drewc-ish) (ignore-errors (string-equal drewc maybe-drewc-ish :end 5)))) 21:12:19 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host246.181-1-203.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:12:23 drewc: this is my favorite. <3 21:12:32 <|3b|> sykopomp: count-if? 21:12:44 I'm counting drewcies, though. 21:12:50 sykopomp: funny, she doesn't look druish 21:12:52 so I thought count would be better. 21:13:11 count-if is perfectly valid, though. 21:13:21 <|3b|> just seems verbose to repeat the thing you are counting twice as a variable name rather than just putting it directly into the comparison 21:13:47 it's easier to extract the lambda this way. 21:14:08 <|3b|> yagni? 21:14:16 so you can count '|3b|s without having to compile another lambda. 21:14:35 the ability to count |3b|s is critical. 21:15:28 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:21 billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-138-91.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-138-91.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:16:21 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:17:25 -!- billstclair [wws@clozure-AC248A7D.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 21:19:14 -!- wws [~billstcla@p-74-209-18-215.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:19:34 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:20:13 wws [~billstcla@p-69-195-57-244.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:27 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:20:33 -!- wws is now known as billstclair 21:20:37 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-57-244.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:20:37 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:21:24 -!- billstclair is now known as wws 21:23:38 drewc: (defpackage http (:use) (:export //drewc.org/a/b/c)) (defpackage //drewc.org/a/b/c ) (defpackage user (:use :cl http://drewc.org/a/b/c)) 21:23:49 let's have fun with packages. 21:24:21 go pjb 21:24:25 drewc: it's silly to use the drewc.org prefix and even more silly to use / instead of . because it won't be compatible with hierarchical package systems. 21:26:27 yup. I must be silly then 21:26:41 I didn't say that. 21:26:46 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:27:04 Making silly choices doesn't silly make you. 21:27:11 Unless it's consistent. 21:27:43 Notice that there are already a couple of implementations of hierarchical package systems. 21:28:05 I have approx 0 Allegro 6.0 licences ... and I do not like flipping the domains around because I use lisp ... and I use / and . for different things 21:28:26 -!- mritz [~textual@97.65.251.170] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:28:44 wws [~billstcla@p-68-237-137-227.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:55 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 21:29:21 drewc: but aren't the long package names a problem in practice? 21:29:30 now, I do not mind making 'silly' choices, because there are other who do that same thing, and I work with them, and it saves a significant amout of time effort. 21:29:34 prxq: how? 21:29:35 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:29:57 drewc: well, I don't know, it's a lot of text, no? 21:30:01 -!- wws [wws@clozure-CBF39905.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 21:30:03 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:31:51 you could just call it :drewc-monads 21:31:54 A lot of text ... to save time and effort ... and C-k C-y is the same keystrokes, and I have a function that 'makes' the .asd with a system for every file ... so saves my having to write the .asd 21:32:22 sure .. I could call it :X for that matter. 21:32:35 for example :-) 21:33:30 that would not save time or effort, and of course will not be my 'one package per file named after the location of the file' 21:34:29 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134127 <--- for example 21:35:16 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@216.185.74.162] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:34 i see. 21:36:43 that monads lib looks juicy, btw. Plans to publish it? 21:36:47 and my 'load-server' 21:36:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134127#1 21:37:22 -!- zbigniew_ is now known as zbigniew 21:37:54 yeah, I do .. 0.1-alpha is likely today actually 21:37:57 http://drewc.org/interface/monads.html 21:38:06 dnolen [~user@64.124.192.210] has joined #lisp 21:39:26 "kernel", is that referring to the kernel language? on your homepage. 21:41:56 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 21:43:31 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:03 yup .. though if you search way back in the past ... my name could still be in the Linux kernel for a patch I had that went live in ... '98 or so. :) 21:46:28 But yeah, the Kernel Lisp Dialect, with proper FEXPRs! 21:46:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 21:46:32 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:54 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:47:04 neat 21:47:50 and strangley enough, I cannot seem to locate my 4 implementations of it ... so, my blog is going to be a lot of 'teaching Lisp be using CL to implement Kernel' IF the is what the readers want 21:47:58 unrelatedly. how do I get source locations/M-. working with abcl sources? 21:48:26 -!- QuickSilver__ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:44 QuickSilver_ [~ait@204.110.112.43] has joined #lisp 21:49:27 not a clue ... but ehu is often here and he likely knows the answer 21:49:41 -!- wws [~billstcla@p-68-237-137-227.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:27 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 21:50:48 I remember reading somewhere that FEXPRs were unfairly demonized as uncompilable. Is that really unfair? 21:51:11 -!- tjasko__ [~Jasko@65.217.244.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:52:16 it certainly doesn't help, and Kernel specifically has some other features that make compilation hard 21:55:13 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:35 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:01 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:19 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:56:41 bonch [~bonch@174.137.69.7] has joined #lisp 21:56:42 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:56:48 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:01:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.43.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:01:54 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.0.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:22 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.0.170] has joined #lisp 22:02:34 not uncompilable 22:02:55 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:14 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:12 just ... heh ... the scope was 'bad' back in the day ... and compilation is still kind of hard ... but can be 'done' for most things 22:09:28 i'm not sure how you'd compile kernel, really. i know some people were trying an approach bsed on partial evaluation. i haven't tried very hrd myself. 22:10:53 -!- skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: skanev] 22:12:44 rickza [~gwnd@165.80.49.60.trm01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 22:17:34 -!- kyl_ [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18:31 biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-238-131.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:15 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:40 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 22:24:43 well, $vau ... I lot of the fexpr things can be done at compile time and then the eval time thing is compiled down next to nothing... but, heh ... Like CL, those times can be all apart or put together or anything ... so really it is a design issue rather than an implementation issue. My interpreter was easy. So was my first compiler! 22:24:48 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:25:01 slow, bloated, and unusable ... but easy to do! :) 22:25:18 could I see? 22:27:28 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:55 -!- rickza [~gwnd@165.80.49.60.trm01-home.tm.net.my] has left #lisp 22:29:09 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-001-113.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:29:22 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:715a:d6b5:4df7:4a48] has joined #lisp 22:30:05 I wish ... I cannot seem to locate my 4 tries at it... and I do not feel like searching through my backups for it ... and 2009 was a wee bit long ago :) 22:30:12 -!- paul0 [~paulo@177.132.101.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:21 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:31 thanks anyway. 22:31:36 PCChris [Chris@dhcp-199-74-100-143.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 22:31:56 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:32 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 22:34:10 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:34:10 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:34:10 -!- francisl_ is now known as francisl 22:34:36 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:34:57 but I do plan or re-visiting it again, because I learned a lot from it 22:35:33 -!- Xizor 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[~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:35:03 -!- dnolen` [user@nat/hackerschool.com/x-eiawrroiqxjsosat] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:16 tensorpu1ding [~tensorpud@99.32.59.215] has joined #lisp 23:35:48 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 23:38:18 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.32.59.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:38:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:40:51 <|3b|> gigamonkey or slyrus: how does monkeylib-binary-data handle formats where there is a size field, then some amount of known data <= that size, then stuff i should skip filling rest of the size? on write it should just write out size of data it knows about, then the data 23:41:05 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:41:32 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:48 francisl_ [~flavoie@199.84.162.167] has joined #lisp 23:42:53 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-209-172.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:42:53 *|3b|* 's best guess so far is add an around method to read-value to read the size and seek past any extra 23:43:04 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:00 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:44:12 <|3b|> though looks like it would be easier with a method on read-object so it could be on a common superclass for multiple similar classes, but that isn't exported 23:45:20 -!- biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-238-131.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:45:31 almaraz [~almaraz@static-72-87-239-154.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:01 -!- saac [~saac@a85-138-109-155.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:46:47 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has 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