00:00:06 p_l: iiuc, they mostly scaled up by using insane processes. 00:00:21 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:00:47 pkhuong: well, K-machine had a more modern design, based on load-store design, with local caches, register windows etc. 00:01:23 *snort* modern ... register windows 00:01:44 pkhuong: well, not my fault x86 is a 70s child 00:02:09 *gimbal* wonders about whether it would be possible to define, on the business side, a community ownership model for a Lisp OS - kickstarter? lol! 00:03:13 p_l: register windows are a patch for really bad calling conventions 00:03:17 it's called the stock market 00:03:23 ...something people could contribute to without a lot of corporate bureaucracy, lol. As far as mobile devices, I'm not sure how the supply chain stuff could be managed in that model, but y'know, it's adaptive... 00:03:37 The only way they can help performance is with itanium-style variable windows, and even then, only when you're software-pipelining-bound 00:03:44 zophy: yeah it would be possible to have a concept of stocks in it, but I'm thinking maybe not a typical corporation, maybe even a "non profit" of a kind 00:03:55 pkhuong: hmm... depends on how exactly they are utilised, but I haven't went very in-depth on them 00:03:55 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:08 pkhuong: the MMIX ones were... interesting 00:04:27 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:30 and according to nyef, disturbingly similar to SBCL's calling conventions sometimes ;) 00:05:02 though I don't know those well enough to say 00:07:03 pkhuong: anyway, K-machine's register windows were IMO definitely more interesting than the stack machine of Symbolics :) 00:07:10 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:11:19 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:11:32 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:12:37 urandom__ [~user@p548A2C44.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:10 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 00:20:53 Found a LispmFPGA project, and its straightforward LispOS design: http://www.aviduratas.de/lisp/lispmfpga/lispinlisp.html 00:23:42 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-141-39.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:24:08 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 00:26:00 -!- biscarch [~chris@ip-64-134-239-62.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:26:36 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:27:27 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-47-165.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:27:51 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:14 sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.242.218] has joined #lisp 00:29:31 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 00:31:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.169] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:15 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.178.221.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:08 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:34:27 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:01 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:45 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:06 -!- gimbal [~gimbal@mo-76-0-6-180.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 00:40:55 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 00:43:54 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:46 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 00:45:56 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:47:01 pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:46 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:ec50:e463:3406:275:c317] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:54:03 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:54:17 biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:13 pkhuong: perhaps the right name is squaring, going in the opposite direction of rounding? 00:55:18 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aafu224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 00:59:32 -!- simkoc [~smuxi@88-134-28-142-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:57 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:29 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 01:04:52 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:26 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:30 so, plo has a post saying "all lisp books in one place", but it doesn't contain a list of books... any ideas? 01:06:47 click it again, it's a pinterest thing. 01:09:08 <|3b|> doesn't work for me either, looks like it tries to do some js thing or something 01:09:55 maybe ghostery is nice enough to block it directly. direct link to the relevant content? 01:10:02 http://pinterest.com/vseloved/lisp-books/ 01:10:17 thanks antonv 01:10:34 oh hell no! that's too much reading 01:12:13 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:24 why is dylan considered a lisp? 01:13:24 madnificent: yes, I also noticed that there are too many books, and it makes me more confident in the view that I should not read everything 01:13:52 to stop learning and devote more attention to writing more real systems 01:14:31 Haha, Chaitin. 01:14:36 *madnificent* should read some lisp books again, if he finds the time 01:14:40 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.17.196] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- pjb [~t@92.103.75.130] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.153.37.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:40 -!- SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:14:44 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:14:59 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.17.196] has joined #lisp 01:14:59 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:16 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.214.196] has joined #lisp 01:15:20 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 01:15:21 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:15:30 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:30 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 01:15:40 To read everything on that page would require access to a very good library or a *lot* of money. 01:16:04 pjb [~t@92.103.75.130] has joined #lisp 01:16:28 -!- pjb is now known as Guest24144 01:16:36 SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:44 samebchase [~samuel@codesurfers.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:46 or another idea, why learn all the new programming languages? it's better to wait, when these ones become outdated, and next ones, better, are created. And then lean these cool language 01:16:56 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.153.37.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:16 want to learn the best language? then wait 01:17:17 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:17:57 http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-540-89275-5_8 This listed book seems pretty interesting. 01:18:06 although a lot of languages keep copying features from lisp, so... learn lisp then wait for the best language to turn out to be a sort of lisp :) 01:18:28 PCChris [Chris@dhcp-199-74-100-143.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 01:18:49 Thra11_: sure, we know this 01:19:27 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:28 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 01:19:32 antonv: it's good enough for me... i see features being carried over, but i don't mind 01:19:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.22.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:23 -!- Guest24144 [~t@92.103.75.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:59 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A833.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:16 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:25:33 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:00 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A7C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:26:14 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:23 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 01:29:51 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 01:33:54 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:35:24 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:35:24 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:36:02 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:34 -!- kmels__ [~kmels@frbg-4d028f94.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:04 PuercoPo` [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 01:40:13 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:17 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:00 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:49 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 01:48:20 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-179.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:53:50 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.38.55] has joined #lisp 01:53:54 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.38.55] has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:42 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:29 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.214.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:57 -!- Jasko 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rmathews [~roshan@117.193.213.5] has joined #lisp 02:35:04 leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.214.196] has joined #lisp 02:40:26 duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:13 -!- lanstin [~user@64.4.246.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:44:01 http://past.lisp.org/new seems to be unavailable 02:47:10 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-179.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:48:15 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:48:32 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:05 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:06 http://www.pastebin.ca/2290753 02:52:27 I have found a problem that i need help with... 02:52:41 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-163.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:02 when I call 'add-account-user' method outside of a request handler 02:53:17 everything works as expected and there are not errors 02:53:25 when I call the method inside of a request handler 02:53:32 [ERROR]] The value 02:53:32 # 02:53:32 is not of type 02:53:33 SEQUENCE. 02:53:42 that is what i see 02:53:54 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-47-165.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:53:55 but the data is added to the database 02:54:17 I don't know what I'm doing wrong 02:54:45 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:07 I've tried calling the method from the request handler with strings like this (data-account:add-account-user "me" "asdf") 02:55:08 probably it returns account 02:55:12 your function 02:55:43 the value returned from request handler is expected to be a body to send in response 02:55:49 string or byte sequence 02:55:52 oh i see 02:56:01 thank you 02:57:01 you were right 02:57:07 thank you! 02:57:15 antonv thanks 02:57:25 no problem 02:57:41 this is some of my first lisp code 02:57:53 would you tell me if anything stands out for improvement? 02:58:04 i am learning too 02:58:08 or could it be clarified somehow? 02:58:09 oh ok 02:58:48 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 02:58:52 duko: why is account-create a macro? 02:59:32 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:00:05 yes 03:00:29 i plan to change it to a function 03:01:13 it is macro for a stupid reason 03:01:25 i had an account-create function that did not use make-dao 03:01:43 and i was looking at this macro from the internet that used make-dao 03:02:18 i tried it and it worked and since my insert-dao method was somewhat cumbersome i left it commented out 03:03:31 teggi [~teggi@113.172.55.21] has joined #lisp 03:13:22 carlos5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:15 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:23:27 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 03:23:57 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:29:37 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.61] has joined #lisp 03:31:05 -!- barik is now known as microsoft_barik 03:32:47 -!- microsoft_barik is now known as barik 03:42:30 zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:44 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:07 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:46:32 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 03:54:58 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:36 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:56:49 anto [erieantoni@78.134.53.29] has joined #lisp 03:56:55 zamboni [~trey@unaffiliated/zamboni] has joined #lisp 04:02:35 -!- zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:00 -!- benny [~user@i577A8821.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:10 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:20 zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:49 list 04:05:32 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has joined #lisp 04:06:48 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:05 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:23 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has joined #lisp 04:08:03 (defvar *my-var* '(first-var second-var)) 04:08:46 how should i make the following declaration so that first-var and second-var would be returned with their values rather than as symbols? 04:08:57 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:09:11 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:12 (defvar *my-var* (list first-var second-var)) 04:09:23 Bike thank you 04:10:06 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:11:15 !list 04:11:43 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:14:11 ciao 04:14:54 benny [~user@i577A8666.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:15:33 ns register 3407435347 erieantonio@gmail.com 04:17:10 !lithp 04:17:20 !li'th't 04:17:51 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:01 -!- mindcruzer [~mindcruze@149.255.33.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:22:23 -!- anto [erieantoni@78.134.53.29] has quit [] 04:27:29 Not sure if this makes sense, but is is possible to trace a special variable? 04:28:06 Would (defvar *my-var* `(,first-var ,second-var)) do the same as what Bike said? or is there a subtle difference? 04:28:34 it'll do the same 04:29:02 the exact, precise underlying operations may not be the same, but the results will be. 04:30:18 mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-179.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:32:10 I am hoping to get a trace of all the places where a given special variable gets bound during the execution of a form. 04:33:24 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.214.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:34:12 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.242.218] has left #lisp 04:36:28 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 04:37:15 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:44:04 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:44:50 how am I supposed to create a director? pathname-as-directory doesn't seem to create it 04:44:57 for cl-fad that is 04:45:16 -!- zerowaitstate [~dwaites@ppp-70-254-44-53.dsl.lgvwtx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:45:26 Thra11_: backquote semantics are kind of weird /but/ why would you want to do that anyway 04:51:41 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:53:10 directory* 04:57:53 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:58:47 cornihilio: ensure-directories-exist, apparently 04:59:56 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.43.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:01:33 Bike: "The symbol "ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST" is not external in the CL-FAD package." 05:01:40 cornihilio: in CL 05:01:48 cornihilio: CL:ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST 05:02:49 ah, okay. thank you! 05:09:05 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:34 hey guys, anyone have experience using common lisp and doing something simple like loading a third party package? I'm having some real trouble with it - I can get it working with quicklisp but that adds over half a second to the script's start up time 05:14:39 ahungry: if startup time is a problem, dump a new image with everything preloaded. 05:15:32 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has joined #lisp 05:15:43 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:08 -!- Vicfred [~Grothendi@201.102.132.153] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:16:11 sykopomp: Do you have the time/patience to give me a quick workflow for lisp? Ive been working on the syntax and such using tutorials in the interactive mode 05:16:17 im' now trying to make a shell script run through clisp 05:16:22 that loads in trivial-shell 05:16:27 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 05:16:30 so I am making my file.lisp 05:16:39 and adding (load "trivial-shell/dev/package.lisp") 05:16:48 why is it a shell script? 05:16:52 but it errors out even after the (use-package :trivial-shell) 05:16:54 is it supposed to be a unix shell utility? 05:17:00 yea 05:17:07 ah 05:17:09 its just me messing around mostly, but I want something persistent 05:17:14 not something I load in an always on interpreter 05:17:19 and have to type in each time I boot machine 05:17:24 anyway, it sounds like you're pretty mixed up. 05:17:28 very 05:17:41 i'm coming from the edit/link/compile mindset, just started looking into lisp a few days ago 05:17:51 made it through to chapter 5 on http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter07.html 05:18:22 some quick terminology: 05:18:37 a package in CL is just a namespace, not a collection of files to load in a certain order. 05:18:47 we call those "systems", and we use ASDF to define and load systems. 05:19:15 quicklisp is built on top of ASDF and adds the ability to automatically download libraries from the internets. 05:19:35 in my workflow, I pretty much never use use-package. 05:19:49 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:11 it's usually better to create a new package that imports the stuff you need, and then use in-package to switch namespaces. 05:21:25 hmm, I have a real rough sample file I am working on, mind looking at its dump on sprunge, its just a few lines 05:21:27 as far as edit/link/compile mindset... one of the main reasons I like Lisp is because I can treat my programming environment as sort of a workbench, where I can keep a single lisp running for a relatively long time, make modifications, try things out at a repl. I write all my lisp code in emacs and use slime to load functions and files directly into the lisp image I'm working on, from the editor. 05:21:54 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.193] has joined #lisp 05:22:19 when I need to *release* something to actually use it in a different context, though, I dump a standalone binary, and just call that from the command line. Some people here use scripts at times, but I tend to not bother. :) 05:22:21 http://sprunge.us/CGMj 05:22:35 ahhh, how do you modify your previous code 05:22:39 if you need to go back and change some values? 05:22:56 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 05:22:57 I see how to save my slime buffer with C-x C-s, but not how to dump a file of it also (again im quite new) 05:23:17 C-c C-c on an sexp in slime compiles and loads that sexp into the lisp image. 05:23:19 and clisp scripting is not very performant 05:23:53 what is the lisp image? the docs I have been reading through never mentioned that 05:24:03 the lisp process, if you will 05:24:26 which is only persistent as long as it is running, or if I C-c C-c to save for later? 05:24:50 that's why you always load things from your source files. 05:25:08 and then when you restart your lisp image, you load your lisp file, and the initial state you want will be restored. 05:25:28 I use ASDF to define collections of lisp files that will be loaded in a particular order, and the project's dependencies on other systems 05:27:22 -!- liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:33 I want to try setting up a basic lisp script that: can be served through apache's mod_cgi, handle the getenv, save to a mysql database and be done without setting up a lisp image at server boot time 05:28:47 are my ideas on this way too far off for what lisp is typically used for? 05:29:07 I saw huchentoot but dont want to have lisp run the webserver itself but integrate some lisp into an existing webserver environment 05:29:14 there's lisp web servers that would probably work better than mod_cgi 05:29:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 05:29:58 the setup I've seen discussed favorably when you don't want a full lisp environment is simply to use your 'main' webserver as a reverse proxy. 05:30:33 for scripting, there's also clon, which might be nicer than just hitting *args* 05:30:49 ahungry: a few of us here use lisp to create whole web sites/apps, with web server, database, etc all in lisp. 05:31:01 http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier/software/lisp/clon.php 05:31:29 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 05:31:31 my preferred setup is hunchentoot + postgres. Works pretty well. 05:31:36 if you want further help in that area check out #lispweb 05:31:43 and sykopomp i wonder why you are not there sometimes 05:31:52 axion: thanks 05:32:05 I'm still a bit lost though on pulling in another user's files 05:32:06 I didn't even know it existed. 05:32:10 haha 05:32:16 for trivial-shell, is it simply impossible to use his lisp files without asdf? 05:32:21 ahungry: use quicklisp. 05:32:22 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:42 asdf is what's used to actually know how to load all those files. 05:32:45 that's what it *does* 05:33:04 ok, sorry I'm such a pain in the ass :) 05:33:04 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:31 what is the typical asdf syntax to load a .asd file? just (load "some.asd") definitely doesn't seem to work 05:33:50 (asdf:load-system 'trivial-shell) 05:34:12 thanks! 05:34:15 or, if you have quicklisp, (ql:quickload 'trivial-shell) will do the same thing, and install the dependencies if you don't already have them. 05:34:28 I pretty much just use quicklisp for all my loading these days. 05:35:58 is it pretty easy to set up something using sockets with CL where I could just write something like '/get/some/page' to it, and my persistent lisp image would then respond with the content for '/get/some/page'? 05:36:13 i guess initial load time wouldn't matter if I did it the right way to begin with 05:36:35 sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.242.218] has joined #lisp 05:37:10 you mean, you want to implement a web server yourself? :) 05:37:38 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: It's not like life has documentation] 05:37:38 anyway, if your concern is that your script is taking too long to load because it needs to reload the dependencies every time, just dump a binary. 05:38:01 well, just a very ghetto one, again i'm quite new to lisp, I have a lot of the basic logic down for a small web server that I wrote in php (I unfortunately use that at work so am most familiar with it) 05:38:16 so id like to implement it in lisp 05:38:20 probably a waste of time. 05:38:22 not sure why you would do that. 05:38:24 but was having trouble loading something to easily let me read the environment 05:38:28 just killing time really 05:38:39 I guess if it's an exercise, it's fine. 05:40:28 ahungry: there's a library called iolib that does some nice wrapping over raw unix socket access. 05:40:42 ahungry: the sources also include a nice tutorial 05:42:40 sykopomp: sweet, thanks, also the asdf:load-system was all I needed, but now I have some better understanding of a much improved way to do this 05:42:57 I was hearing of lisp's interactive programming but wasn't quite grasping the idea of the lisp server being always on 05:43:23 not going into the interactive programming is probably throwing away a good chunk of what makes it special. 05:44:10 If I spent some time writing in the prompt, and I liked my session and wanted to send it to another machine, I should (correct me if im wrong/miss something) 05:44:28 Save the source of the session (emacs slime ) with C-x C-w to some new file, clean up all the CL-USER> lines out of it 05:44:32 and the stdout stuff 05:44:38 and then just (load "whatever.lisp") 05:44:42 next time I boot up an image? 05:44:44 no 05:45:00 you should write all your source code into a file assuming you're not writing it interactively. 05:45:15 so you write your source code as if you needed to compile it before running it 05:45:41 but you also C-c C-c the definitions as you write them/edit them, and test them out to make sure it feels good. 05:46:44 the idea is that even though you're coding interactively, you should have this source code that you can start fresh from. 05:47:03 it's not like smalltalk, where you generally code everything into the image itself and then pass the image around. 05:47:16 ahh ok 05:47:29 is there a command inside the interpreter to flush everything? 05:47:36 without closing the slime window 05:47:40 if i want to reoad my source file 05:47:43 reload* 05:48:02 reloading a source file does not undo previous definitions. 05:48:08 it just replaces the ones that are there. 05:48:09 flush what? compiling a file can (and does often) have arbitrary effects 05:48:28 but stuff like defun is made to allow redefinition 05:48:29 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-179.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:48:30 if you really want to start fresh, you M-x slime-restart-inferior-lisp 05:49:08 ah ok so it supports it if I change a definition I can defun right in slime, test it out and if it seems good then end up dropping it back into the source file? 05:49:32 you actually never take the definition out of the source file 05:49:35 yes, but usually you'd do it the other way, writing it in the file and C-c C-c ing to test it in your repl 05:49:38 you do all your editing in your .lisp file 05:49:40 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:49:50 C-c C-c takes care of throwing it at your repl without making you copy anything. 05:50:16 if it doesnt work out, undo the edit, and redefine the function again 05:50:22 writing long functions in the repl is error-prone, no reason not to do it in the file 05:50:29 (defun foo () ...) C-c C-c => CL-USER> (foo 1 2 3) => nah I don't like it => edit (defun foo () ...) C-c C-c => try again 05:50:46 the only stuff I actually write into the repl is short test calls :) 05:51:22 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:51:47 ahungry: maybe you could benefit from reading PCL 05:52:05 practical common lisp? 05:52:15 ahungry: chapter 3 of PCL pretty much covers everything we're talking about right now (the interactive stuff. It doesn't really cover asdf.) 05:52:16 yeah 05:52:19 i have heard it mentioned a couple times since I started reading the docs I have been on 05:52:26 maybe i chose the wrong docs to look at 05:52:31 http://gigamonkeys.com/book 05:52:34 it's free 05:52:46 http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter07.html is what i've been working through 05:52:57 it hasn't been bad, although some parts are a little wordy 05:53:05 and it didn't make any of this conversation we just had clear 05:53:08 in general work flow 05:53:14 thanks for the link 05:53:48 I'm not so sure about throwing you into CLOS when you've got some basic concepts to wrap your head around, still 05:54:26 PCL clears up a lot of mysticism and i recommend reading the first few chapters before even writing some lisp 05:55:29 off to hit the books, thanks again guys 05:55:41 happy hacking 05:58:06 btw, what's a little history about everyone that you dont mind sharing? do you do lisp professionally/hobbyist? do you prefer it to all other languages? how old are you/how long have you been working on lisp? 05:59:17 I've done lisp professionally, although my job is now doing erlang. I started off as a hobbyist. It's still my favorite language, and I do my hobby code using it. I've been doing it for about 4-5 years now, I think. 06:00:19 what kind of professional apps use lisp? older stuff or new things still? I haven't even looked into erlang yet, how do you like that? 06:01:26 I was working on a brand new application dealing with lots of data, a web-based frontend, some busywork in the backend, etc, for an insurance company. 06:01:32 there's plenty of big old systems like maxima and openmusic that use it. still some new stuff, like that NLP job ad that was up yesterday 06:01:49 and I like erlang well enough, mostly because of how similar to lisp it is ;) 06:04:08 angelolicastro [~angelo@cpe-74-77-48-215.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:04:59 sykopomp: why do you think erlang is similar to lisp ? 06:05:04 Hi there, I'm new to Lisp (I just installed CLISP) and I was curious if it was possible to build a HTTP web proxy server in Lisp. 06:05:13 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:23 erlang's syntax is not elegant 06:05:47 sw2wolf: it's the only other language where I've been able to have a similar interactive workflow. 06:06:05 angelolicastro: pretty sure there are one or two around, sure 06:07:02 And, there is one of the largest technology companies that use lisp for certain search 'algo' .. that is a newer system! :P 06:07:30 Thanks, Bike. 06:08:01 yeah 06:12:01 This is more of a general programming question, but is Lisp really the ideal language for artificial intelligence systems? 06:12:25 just use Java if you care that much 06:12:44 Why do you say that? 06:12:46 netgod [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-jublidfpvpvtyepn] has joined #lisp 06:13:10 that's what all the libraries get written for these days, I hear. 06:13:30 that said, QPX is CL, so ymmv 06:13:42 angelolicastro: lisp is easy for symbolic AI. symbolic AI, however, is old. 06:14:10 Ah. 06:14:34 theres many types of "ai". some languages are better suited than others depending on the task 06:14:40 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:15:06 Looking into modern AI, such as IBM Watson, it looks like Java and C++. 06:15:09 it was fun reading through GEB again after learning lisp and realizing that there were gensyms leaked in the output 06:15:54 Let's all collaborate and make a Lisp to Java transformer in Lisp. :) 06:16:07 well, we have abcl already 06:16:07 angelolicastro: abcl? 06:16:41 also clojure is a lisp (although not common lisp) targetting the jvm 06:16:54 Feel free to slap me with a fish at any time. Like I said, I just compiled CLISP a bit ago. :P 06:17:28 abcl doesn't compile to lisp, but it compiles to jvm, and has java interoperability, which is what you really want presumably 06:17:34 er, doesn't compile to java*, I mean. 06:18:02 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:26 -!- netgod [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-jublidfpvpvtyepn] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:18:54 bonch [~bonch@h115.50.155.207.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:40 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:25:49 I have a large database in which the records are plists. Each day of the week 1/7 of this database is loaded and processed. On Sundays I get the following error: 'The bounding indices 105 and 110 are bad for a sequence of length 107. [Condition of type SB-KERNEL:BOUNDING-INDICES-BAD-ERROR]'. I'm fairly certain this is the result of a malformed record (plist). What is the easiest way to find this record? 06:28:20 -!- angelolicastro [~angelo@cpe-74-77-48-215.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:29:12 possibly that subseq or similar is used with indices/indexes that exceed the actual size of the sequence... do you have access to a backtrace? 06:31:08 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:30 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:32:25 phadthai, yes, but I see no indication there as to what record is the offending one. 06:32:53 narmi [~sabayonus@149.147.251.220] has joined #lisp 06:34:07 it's possible that some records don't fit some assumptions of the code as you said, but you'd have to run through them and verify that they fit those assumptions to verify... 06:34:37 as for the backtrace, depending on the implementation and on compile options (i.e. debug level), it might allow access to bindings within the frames 06:34:59 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:35:01 in which case you could probably see the record it's dealing with 06:35:26 you also could add some debug loging in the code if necessary 06:36:22 phadthai, OK, thanks. You have given me some ideas. I'll try them now. 06:38:18 -!- narmi [~sabayonus@149.147.251.220] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:38:30 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 06:41:38 angelolicastro [~angelo@cpe-74-77-48-215.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:41:38 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 06:44:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:44:51 -!- angelolicastro [~angelo@cpe-74-77-48-215.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:44:54 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:22 whistlewright [~yaaic@184.79.163.25] has joined #lisp 06:46:38 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 06:53:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:54:47 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:00:06 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:01:46 ccl's typesys says it's a "hacked up" version of cmucl's. did any other lisp implementations even have type inference worth anything? 07:01:52 mutu [d97653fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.118.83.250] has joined #lisp 07:02:09 hi 07:02:12 oh, there was that Scheme T thing, wasn't there. 07:03:51 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:04 -!- rmathews [~roshan@117.193.213.5] has quit [Quit: ...] 07:04:26 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:49 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 07:12:21 -!- duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:13:07 k0001 [~k0001@host217.190-224-54.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 07:13:40 -!- carlos5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:04 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 07:14:14 carlos5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:45 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 07:16:04 -!- mutu [d97653fa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.118.83.250] has left #lisp 07:17:44 -!- tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:18:44 -!- carlos5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:22:08 Is there a way to avoid repeating foo here? (if condition (let ((*special1* ...)) (foo a b c d)) (foo a b c d)) 07:22:37 no 07:22:46 without modifying semantics 07:23:14 (let ((*special1* (if condition x *special1*))) (foo a b c d)) if rebinding is ok 07:23:26 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 07:23:44 Any reason why rebinding would not be okay? 07:24:08 when your code doesn't expect it 07:24:28 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 07:24:28 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 07:24:28 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 07:24:29 but since you rebind in one case, most probably it's ok in the second too 07:24:31 lots of things, say, if foo modifies *special* and you want it to have effect outside of the rebinding place 07:25:37 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:25:43 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.143] has joined #lisp 07:27:12 -!- alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has left #lisp 07:27:50 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:28:02 sigjuice: compare (progn (let ((* *)) (setf * 10)) *) => NIL (or something else) and (progn (setf * 10) *) => 10 07:28:49 * is set to the previous evaluation result, so you might choose another variable to see more clearly 07:28:52 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.17.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:29:35 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:17 you are saying I should try this with some other special variable instead of *? 07:34:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:36:58 djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:02 yes, you might get confused because if you evaluate the former after the latter, you'll get the same results 07:38:50 because of > 10 => 10 > * => 10 07:40:10 is there a haskell to lisp to haskell converter/deconverter ? 07:40:27 why would there be? 07:40:54 please don't tell me there is a haskell to java converter 07:41:27 this channel is not about haskell, so nobody would tell you that even if they knew 07:44:07 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.169] has joined #lisp 07:44:26 In my case, the execution of (foo ...) never modifies *special1* 07:44:43 then you're good 07:45:12 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:46:16 another difference is when multiple threads are involved, if you create a new binding, then the modifications made in another thread won't be visible 07:46:39 stassats: isn't that sort of thing implementation dependent? 07:46:46 not really 07:46:55 well, it is, but all implementations agree 07:49:56 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:36 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 07:51:37 I don't think I understand this stuff very well. But I seem to to out of my way to avoid modifying special variables. 07:51:39 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:53:04 not modifying, only rebinding, special variables is a good strategy 07:53:05 irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has joined #lisp 07:55:01 What constitutes rebinding? I know of (let ((*special* ...)) and (some-func *special*) 07:55:06 Is there anything else? 07:55:16 progv, not that that will ever come up 07:55:22 though calling a function isn't rebinding... 07:55:51 Bike: but it is 07:56:08 oh, wait, yeah, in the function. silly me 07:56:11 (defun some-func (*special*)) 07:56:15 ((lambda (*special*) ...) 'rebinding) 07:56:16 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@50.1.48.145] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 07:56:52 i think i've only seen that pattern in old code, i may have internalized it as "a bad idea" 07:57:22 destructuring-bind, multiple-value-bind 07:57:36 (lambda (&key ((:special *special*) *special*))) 07:57:42 with-open-file 07:57:49 basically, anything which involve binding 07:58:02 how do you cure a lisp? 07:58:06 loop, do, dolist, dotimes 07:58:15 zamboni: by leaving this channel 07:58:21 :\ 07:59:36 (defun foo (x) ...), (foo *global*) isn't a rebinding, though. 08:00:25 what if x is special? 08:00:27 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 08:01:26 isn't rebinding *global*, I should say 08:02:07 carlos5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:29 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:04:13 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 08:07:25 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:04 -!- carlos5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:06 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:11:49 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.115.80] has joined #lisp 08:12:59 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:13:44 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:55 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:58 shwouchk [~kosta@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has joined #lisp 08:16:59 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:06 -!- zamboni [~trey@unaffiliated/zamboni] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:22:45 -!- whistlewright [~yaaic@184.79.163.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:14 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:01 whistlewright [~yaaic@184.79.163.25] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 chacha [~kimws@61.79.91.174] has joined #lisp 08:35:00 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:35:22 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:23 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:04 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:17 -!- chacha [~kimws@61.79.91.174] has quit [Quit: chacha] 08:40:30 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@222.209.242.218] has left #lisp 08:42:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:02 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:45:10 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host217.190-224-54.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:46:44 [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has joined #lisp 08:48:13 <[6502]> In your experience what's used more frequently... defvar or defparameter? 08:49:16 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:50:18 teggi_ [~teggi@123.21.161.171] has joined #lisp 08:50:24 [6502]: they have different goals 08:50:43 defvar is for state you want to persist across reloading of the code (usually something not user-exposed). defparameter is for, well, parameters 08:50:58 rgrep "(defvar " | wc -l => 4973 08:51:08 3343 for defparameter 08:51:14 popularity-oriented programming sounds conceptually interesting but hardly useful 08:51:34 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.55.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:02 -!- irpanech6 [~user@24.68.147.45] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:55:11 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:33 <[6502]> cmm: I didn't ask this on facebook, I don't think it would make sense to call a polling on lispers as popularity-oriented. I just got bitten last night because I was changing a value (in a defvar) and I was not seeing changes in the simulation results and it turns out I simply used defvar without thinking hard. I was wondering if my default habit should move to defparameter instead... 08:57:14 use C-M-x to change the value of defvar 08:58:36 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:00:23 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-48-12.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:01:09 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:04:40 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-108-192-103-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:57 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:26 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:00 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:07:02 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 09:09:18 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:10:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:11:20 segmond_ [~segmond@adsl-99-150-129-54.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:13:37 hmmm... say i have a list and a predicate function... what's the prettiest way to split that list into two lists based on the predicate? 09:14:09 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-99-150-129-211.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:14:36 (loop for x in list if (predicatep x) collect x into list1 else collect x into list2 finally (return (values list1 list2))) 09:15:21 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:15:26 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:17:18 xan_ [~xan@fanzine.igalia.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:20:22 [6502]: maybe in scheme only define is used :) 09:20:53 #scheme is that ----> way 09:21:43 Hi! 09:22:18 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:23:30 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-14-120.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:24:46 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:24:51 stassats: nice! that's pretty close to what i have, just wanted to check -- sometimes i get a suspicion that cl has a more succinct builtin 09:25:37 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 09:25:53 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 09:26:09 cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-13-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:28:10 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:31:15 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.63] has joined #lisp 09:31:49 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:36:17 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:34 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:05 why null and not nullp ? why not "p" at the end of a predicate function? 09:37:55 because it's about backwards compatibility, not consistency 09:39:49 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-238-098.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:30 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:44:11 -!- PCChris [Chris@dhcp-199-74-100-143.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:13 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:48:53 but if null is a function (clhs), why (functionp (null nil)) give me nil? 09:49:09 are you serious? 09:49:39 you are gavino, aren't you? 09:50:10 https://gist.github.com/4244080 is there a way to not have the output sent to the slime interface but actually output in the ningle:route? 09:51:07 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:16 jaimef: that paste has a lot of irrelevant information, can you trim it to the specifics? 09:51:28 last 6 lines 09:51:56 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0860.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:00 https://gist.github.com/4244083 09:52:43 i don't know what ningle is, but you need do direct your output to a stream 09:52:46 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:46 essentially trying to open /etc/motd and display it on the page 09:52:50 -!- whistlewright [~yaaic@184.79.163.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:54 ok 09:52:59 does it have a stream? 09:53:09 I would guess no. 09:53:10 if it expects a string, you can use with-output-to-string 09:53:18 thanks 09:53:38 stassats: ok... the operand is not an object. :) but whois calvino? 09:53:51 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:53:56 jaimef: there's also alexandria:read-file-into-string 09:54:07 nice 09:54:07 thx 09:55:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:55:57 and even if you want to read it yourself, PRINT is not the way to go, use WRITE-LINE instead 09:56:14 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:56:15 thanks 09:57:44 much better 09:58:07 whistlewright [~yaaic@184.79.163.25] has joined #lisp 10:02:17 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:05:53 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:06:52 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:05 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:07:26 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:32 I like use the term operand since even operators are functions in lisp and numbers are data. Is correct? 10:08:40 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 10:13:14 silenius [~silenius@brln-4db9a74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:43 pjb [~user@92.103.75.130] has joined #lisp 10:24:12 PuercoPo` [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 10:24:43 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:27:01 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002fcb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:42 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:30:13 kaid [~kaid@123.122.66.80] has joined #lisp 10:31:37 urandom__ [~user@p54B0E1D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:44 -!- prip [~foo@host90-135-dynamic.49-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:50 -!- kaid [~kaid@123.122.66.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:35:40 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 10:37:23 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 10:37:24 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:37:36 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 10:38:03 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:35 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:06 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:37 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:44 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:46:23 prip [~foo@host182-128-dynamic.9-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:51:57 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:54:56 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:55:38 nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 10:57:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:57:06 <[6502]> pnpuff: (null nil) returns T, why should functionp return T on that? May be you wanted to check (symbol-function 'null)? 10:57:25 [6502]: don't pay attention to pnpuff 10:58:05 <[6502]> stassats: are you sure s/he's a troll? 10:58:43 [6502]: no, he just talks nonsense all the time 10:59:48 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:00:27 and i suspect it's gavino, a long time "troll" (well, troll isn't a good description, maybe "nonsense-talker") 11:00:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-181-4.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:42 antgreen [~user@dsl-207-112-126-76.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 11:03:46 stassats: well, the accent doesn't really match. 11:04:18 maybe he's evolving, who knows 11:04:19 -!- silenius [~silenius@brln-4db9a74b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:38 hunchentoot seems to be brittle, under just ab(1) testing a simple page load it beoomes unresponsive requiring all threads be killed and restarted 11:04:50 hmm maybe big GC 11:05:01 are you using the latest hunchentoot? 11:05:10 jaimef: iirc, hunchentoot is supposed to be used behind a proxy 11:05:12 jaimef: are you testing the latest version? there have been a lot of improvements in that area recently. 11:06:23 the version ql:quickload pulled down 11:06:41 jaimef: latest quicklisp? 11:06:58 will check 11:07:15 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.63] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:07:19 jaimef: can you reproduce? if so, please file an issue, mentioning version, platform, how to reproduce (https://github.com/edicl/hunchentoot) 11:07:30 sure 11:07:35 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0860.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:00 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:25 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:42 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:10:31 stassats: Should bundle a set of annotations for his rewrites of paste.lisp.org snippets answering this sort of question. 11:10:53 I always find them worth studying. 11:10:56 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.193] has left #lisp 11:11:23 Odyessus: what sort of question? 11:11:38 i'm a bit lost as to what you're referring to 11:12:07 How can I rewrite this code using the standard ANSI conforming dictionary? 11:12:22 That sort of question. 11:12:42 but there was no pastes! 11:13:07 Not here. But it will show up in the http accessible IRC logs. 11:13:33 how do you reset an "elephant" store, docs didn't help. maybe i am missing some common practice (quite new to GC world)? 11:14:04 I've asked you this sort of question at least a half dozen times over years. (As @easye) 11:15:03 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:15:18 i thought about getting all the irc logs, marking questions and answers and do some bayeasian searching so that you can enter natural language questions and it'll try to match an answer to it 11:15:28 the hardest part is marking questions and answers as such 11:16:01 in case of specbot answers, that's easy, now what about questions 11:16:09 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:10 nan_: i'm afraid not much people are using it 11:19:03 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:19:16 stassats: any other library suggestions? 11:19:37 depends on what sort of thing you're trying to store 11:19:47 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:20:12 nan_: there is no well-supported ORM for cl at this time. 11:20:28 and i'm a bit out of the loop when it comes to lisp databases, since i use my own 11:20:28 nan_: when using databases, many people here use postmodern and postgresql 11:20:54 (and it's well-supported, by myself for myself) 11:20:55 nan_: i also use bknr-datastore for some applications, because i wrote it. i heard good things about cl-store, too. 11:21:14 *Odyessus* likes the postgres documentation. 11:21:28 you mean postmodern documentation? 11:21:35 If forced to squeal in SQL. 11:21:55 stassats: H4ns: i am trying to learn CL with hunchentoot, writing a server, i'll try postmodern 11:22:00 stassats: why you're annoying me? anyway what is the sense of your pseudoscientific talking without any sense? You have found the meaning of everything maybe? 11:22:14 nan_: postmodern is really nice and workable. 11:22:19 H4ns: sorry, what is ORM? 11:22:22 pnpuff: get lost 11:22:27 No, I purposely don't retain anything I know about SQL. Too much effort. 11:22:28 nan_: use google. 11:23:01 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-132-163.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:23:22 H4ns: what do you mean? 11:23:57 I was talking with stassats. 11:24:05 stassats: And once you do the basic markup, we can also try to train some classifiers 11:24:20 pnpuff sounds like a bad-working Eliza 11:24:38 Odyessus: who said i was going to implement it? too much work! 11:25:00 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 11:25:08 stassats: Then you don't mind if I do? 11:25:09 especially since people of #lisp are capable of performing such a task 11:25:22 stassats: T 11:25:42 i mean, not the thing i described, but answering questions 11:26:21 Once we have the annotations for one user, generalizing would be trivial. 11:26:48 Odyessus: that's an interesting question, maybe i do mind, maybe i would prefer if you would do something that is directly useful to me 11:26:48 Users have known, stable IRC identifiers. 11:26:56 like fixing bugs in SBCL or optimizing commonqt 11:27:19 *Odyessus* just released ABCL 1.1.0 11:27:36 leoncamel [~leoncamel@219.142.235.160] has joined #lisp 11:27:36 *Odyessus* is RESTing a bit. 11:27:40 well, you asked whether i mind yourself! 11:27:56 T 11:28:25 getting commonqt to run abcl would be fun too 11:28:48 I will get my patches for SBCL on threaded amd64 #openindiana 11:29:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:29:15 Submitted as soon as BT compiles clean. 11:30:22 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:31:19 Does #commonqt have callbacks? CFFI works well for me in ABCL 1.1.0 11:31:32 it does, yes 11:31:58 Cool. Then I'll add it to my CFFI test suite. 11:32:23 it also depends on closer-mop, so can't just test it yet 11:33:45 closer-mop will work against abcl-1.1.0: just need to patch. 11:34:03 Maybe we should do a Quicklisp dist for abcl? 11:34:11 segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-008-034.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:48 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 11:37:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:31 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:39:00 -!- nightfly_ [~sage@sagenite.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:39:03 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.169] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 11:43:14 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:35 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:43:36 i can actually create a simple dialog in commonqt from abcl 11:44:54 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-100-101.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:45:46 stassats: So not all callbacks fail. Just those with types my code understands? 11:46:04 well, it's not using callbacks 11:46:11 the simple dialog i made 11:46:16 Ok. 11:46:46 let me recheck that and try with callbacks 11:47:13 stassats: Thanks. 11:47:40 no, it actually uses some callbacks 11:49:02 -!- pyx [~pyx@d24-141-100-35.home.cgocable.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 11:49:21 CFFI master from github currently fails 25 tests for me with abcl-1.1.0 11:49:51 So, my work isn't complete. But it is running better. 11:51:06 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.63] has joined #lisp 11:51:39 running a more complex applications, some callbacks aren't coming through 11:51:54 which is strange 11:52:05 Those I need to triage. You got some open source? 11:52:37 i'll make a small reproducible test-case 11:52:53 stassats: Ack . 11:53:01 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 11:57:00 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 11:57:28 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 12:02:46 well, i found a bug in sbcl instead 12:02:47 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:03:14 and in ccl, fascinating 12:03:43 i'm reworking the drakma documentation, how do you like the new example presentation style, useful? readable? http://netzhansa.com/drakma.html 12:03:55 (apply '(setf foo) (list x)), when compiled, doesn't complain about '(setf foo) not being a legal function designator 12:04:01 both complain in the repl 12:05:04 will deal with them later 12:09:41 H4ns: how to interpret the colors in the examples? 12:10:09 antonv: ok, i'll document that. :) 12:10:15 i kind of hoped it'd be obvious 12:10:16 let me try to understand 12:10:20 sec 12:10:31 don't bother, documenting that is easy enough. 12:10:46 i see 4 colors: bold black, black, green, blue 12:10:53 bold black is clear - what I type 12:11:28 blue are outbound request headers, black are inbound request headers, green is repl output 12:11:38 blue is request headers, black response headers 12:11:45 green return value 12:12:03 Odyessus: and the callback problem looks like a MOP problem 12:12:10 -!- engblom is now known as mrcarrot 12:12:11 so, it's actually working quite with with FFI 12:12:18 quite well, that is 12:12:19 -!- mrcarrot is now known as engblom 12:12:24 H4ns: would it be more consistent to use black as the result of what I entered into repl? 12:12:42 H4ns: I enter bold black, get just black as a response 12:12:59 H4ns: and headers are colored: green and blue 12:13:08 antonv: makes sense, thanks! 12:14:21 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:18:48 Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.43.202] has joined #lisp 12:19:08 I want to turn a url into a filename, but I am unsure what I should be doing 12:19:23 I know there might be something better than regex replacement 12:19:25 antonv: done http://netzhansa.com/drakma.html 12:19:37 I was trying to figure out if puri might work? 12:19:59 cornihilio: puri can disassemble your uri, but not turn it into a filename. 12:20:54 antonv: i like it much better now, thanks again 12:20:55 H4ns: for posix systems, everything is viable in filename except for '/', right? 12:21:15 no problem, thanks for working on that 12:21:42 if puri disassembles based on the '/' I can just merge them with something less offensive to linux, right? 12:22:22 or did I just say some nonsense 12:22:41 cornihilio: there are several caveats, but in general, yes - think non-printable characters, non-ascii-encoding and things like that. 12:23:09 cornihilio: if you receive your urls from a foreign source, you'll also have to be wary of directory traversals using ".." as pathname component. 12:24:08 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.169] has joined #lisp 12:25:35 H4ns: thank you for the clarification! 12:28:00 -!- bonch [~bonch@h115.50.155.207.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: The computer fell asleep] 12:28:37 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:39:35 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:03 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:18 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:43:18 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:26 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:46:21 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:47:41 strebe [~strebe@unaffiliated/strebe] has joined #lisp 12:48:01 cornihilio: except 42 and 0. ('/' and '\0'). 12:48:23 cornihilio: posix paths are sequences of bytes, there's no notion of character there. 12:49:35 <|3b|> is there a fast/convenient way to rewrite (apply 'concatenate 'vector list-of-vectors) that doesn't depend on call-arguments-limit? 12:56:27 so, good news, commonqt can be run on ABCL 12:56:31 kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has joined #lisp 12:56:52 very slow, though 12:57:01 AeroNotix [~xeno@aafu224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:58:41 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:59:23 abcl can convert a puri to a URL-PATHNAME 12:59:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.90.1] 13:00:23 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:00:28 a branch that can run on abcl https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/tree/abcl 13:01:10 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:02 stassats: what is the reason to use qt on jvm? 13:02:14 why are you asking me? 13:02:35 your git url 13:02:37 <|3b|> to test jvm lisp implementations? 13:02:58 |3b|: there's com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.string:concatenate-strings that could be adapted to vectors (s/make-string/make-array inside. 13:03:04 asvil: if you have a reason, you can use run it 13:03:18 |3b|: newbie code tend to be too specific :-( 13:04:18 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aafu224.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 13:04:22 <|3b|> pjb: going in a patch for a BSD lib, so would rather avoid GPL :) 13:04:52 *|3b|* isn't sure what you mean with the 'too specific' part though 13:05:11 |3b|: don't be silly, I can't own the algorithm! The idea is to compute the size, allocate the result vector, and copy with replace the input vectors in place into the result vector. 13:05:34 |3b|: I should have written concatenate-vectors instead of concatenate-strings. 13:05:44 <|3b|> pjb: yeah, that was my 'not as convenient as apply concatenate' solution 13:07:08 <|3b|> (replace seems to be quite a bit faster than concatenate on sbcl at least, not that 0.07 vs 0.001 matters in a 4 sec process 13:11:04 *|3b|* should probably just use FFI instead though, since that does the whole thing in 0.13 13:11:38 xecycle [~user@2001:da8:8000:e104:ca0a:a9ff:fe72:7a0d] has joined #lisp 13:12:14 Is the behaviour of (incf (gethash x table 0)) defined in the standard when x is not already in the table? 13:12:40 <|3b|> should be 13:12:49 Thanks. 13:13:02 <|3b|> incf writes to the specified place, so should create the entry 13:13:28 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@123.21.161.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:50 So what is a "place", indeed? 13:14:09 <|3b|> 'place' is what SETF works on 13:14:16 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:48 Hmm, it doesn't look like a value of an expression, but is like the expression itself, right? 13:15:09 <|3b|> could be almost anything, since you can define your own setf expanders 13:15:29 Uhuh. Got it. 13:20:12 rmathews [~roshan@117.193.217.178] has joined #lisp 13:20:13 <|3b|> note that (incf (car (gethash x table (list 0)))) wouldn't change the hash table though, since the place is the CAR of the list returned as the default value, so while the list gets modified, nothing writes it back to the hash table 13:23:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d002fcb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:23:58 Hmm... Thanks. 13:27:25 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 13:27:45 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has joined #lisp 13:29:23 kaid_ [~kaid@123.122.66.80] has joined #lisp 13:29:23 -!- kaid_ [~kaid@123.122.66.80] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33:18 -!- kaid [~kaid@141.0.169.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:33:22 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:33:31 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:35:29 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 13:40:01 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:39 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:03 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:27 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:43 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 13:57:05 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:57:37 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:58:39 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.193] has joined #lisp 13:59:01 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:48 -!- PseudoMander [~PseudoMan@14-202-8-87.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:10:57 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:22 -!- rmathews [~roshan@117.193.217.178] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:11:25 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:00 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.87.18] has joined #lisp 14:14:20 bhyde [~bhyde@c-24-61-81-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:04 PseudoMander [~PseudoMan@14-202-8-87.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:16:01 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:28:08 What does this mean: Evaluation aborted on #. 14:29:27 probably index out of bounds 14:30:13 Sounds like it expected the 2nd integer to be between 105 and 107 and it got 110 instead 14:30:41 <|3b|> you passed start and end indices of 105 and 110 to some sequence function. with a sequence of length 107 14:31:02 Is this a problem with code or data? 14:31:27 How do I find the error? 14:32:15 <|3b|> should be able to get a backtrace from debugger, and look for whichever frame looks like your code 14:33:31 <|3b|> '110' is technically data, but could easily have been generated by code, so hard to say what the problem is 14:33:34 drl: what you pasted here is not there error you should be looking at 14:33:48 The numbers 105 and 107 are not found anywhere in my code. 14:33:58 you shouldn't abort the debugger in slime 14:34:22 first, it prints the error condition properly, and then you have the whole stack 14:34:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:43 *|3b|* wouldn't expect to find those numbers in the code most of the time 14:37:13 I just found the error by clicking on: (SUBSEQ ..) 14:38:18 I didn't know to do that. I'm learning. Thanks to everyone who responded. 14:39:44 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:48 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:32 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:03 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 14:44:20 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:22 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.87.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:46:36 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:51:08 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.193] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:51:13 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:49 -!- Guest90125 is now known as asciilifeform 14:56:05 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:36 mattrepl 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the connection] 19:51:48 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 19:52:10 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.131] has joined #lisp 19:56:20 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 19:57:57 if anyone has time to proofread the reworked Drakma documentation, i'd appreciate feedback http://netzhansa.com/drakma.html 20:01:30 i'm not sure that "2. Contents" needs to be in the table of contents 20:01:57 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:02:12 as well as the abstract, as it's just before the table of contents 20:02:54 -!- _d3f [~freedo@79.172.193.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:59 it propably does not belong there, but i don't want to fix that right now. 20:03:15 and i'm not sure that people are interested in seeing quicklisp output 20:03:43 ok. well, before, they got lispworks compilation diagnostics :) 20:04:49 some placeholder like <... quicklisp messages ...> (:DRAKMA) 20:04:50 i removed most of the noise. 20:04:55 *|3b|* wonders how hard it would be to number the multiple return values 20:05:21 |3b|: ? 20:05:53 <|3b|> sort of hard to distinguish them, since some are multiline 20:05:57 ikki [~ikki@189.247.87.90] has joined #lisp 20:06:18 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.134.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:31 <|3b|> some css tricks or something could put numbers beside them, making them easier to find 20:06:52 <|3b|> not sure it is worth a lot of effort though 20:07:17 |3b|: i'll see what i can do, sounds like a useful suggestion 20:08:12 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.36.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:08:29 H4ns: how about making the quickload output shorter? no that interesting, tbh 20:09:05 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:09:42 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 20:09:45 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has quit [Client Quit] 20:09:46 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:10:13 flip214: that is a very good suggestion, and stassats made it, erm, 6 lines ago? 20:10:47 oh, ok. didn't read _all_ of the backlog - just saw your request. 20:11:05 flip214's reading buffer was overflown by quicklisp dots 20:11:28 mr_vile [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 20:11:41 H4ns: the ico request has a wrapped answer section ((:date ...)), the first one has one long line 20:12:33 thanks 20:12:54 the fake user agent example has a too long REPL input line 20:15:34 H4ns: "reusing a connection" - wrap ((:date...)) to a shorter line length, too 20:16:04 perhaps that's a bad example, the second request has "connection: close", so a third one won't work, right? 20:16:37 basic authorization - isn't that "basic authentication"? and remove quicklisp lines again. 20:17:38 ah, the hunchentoot page is called "authorization" - but the HTTP header says "authenticate" ;/ 20:18:16 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-1176366805.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 20:18:24 flip214: the reusing a connection example looks good to me. 20:18:27 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:18:33 <|3b|> link on 'method' arg of http-request doesn't go anywhere (looks like anchor has 'method' instead of 'arg-method' 20:19:36 |3b|: fixed 20:19:45 H4ns: the ":want-stream t" example ... 20:19:57 yes. look at it closely 20:19:58 35 to 41, shouldn't that be more than 3 lines? 20:20:03 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-48-12.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:41 "Request contents can be assembled from various source*s*" 20:21:50 flip214: empty lines, but maybe i'll fix that - i just copied what was there. 20:22:26 well, authorization should be authentication everywhere, but i'm reluctant to change the API right now 20:22:41 i'll use authorization everywhere, even though it is wrong. 20:23:09 in download and installation: preferred or prefered? you've got both 20:23:56 well, I'd prefer authentication - that's what will give you results when searching for http 20:23:57 that's a good balance 20:24:05 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.143] has joined #lisp 20:24:35 flip214: i know that authorization is wrong, but edi did that, the api exposes the wrong term and at this point, i do not want to fix it. 20:25:28 the "deadline" link in "http-request" doesn't seem to work. gives me the symbol index only. 20:25:30 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 20:26:15 behaviour/behavior also 20:26:25 fixed already, please reload 20:27:13 "protocol is the HTTP protocol which is" looks indented, but perhaps that's just the emphasis 20:28:00 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:28:24 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-26-13-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:46 fixed 20:28:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:28:53 are you aiming at en_US or en_UK? 20:28:54 :verify -- would be nice to _pass_ the CA certificate for verification ... eg. instead of :optional and :required 20:29:10 ah, :ca-file 20:29:30 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aatg122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:51 perhaps some things might be better readable if uppercased - CAR, CDR, ALIST? 20:30:30 uppercase is used only for symbols 20:30:52 AeroNotix [~xeno@aatg122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:31:19 CAR is a symbol like NIL or FLEXI-STREAMS, IMO. 20:31:29 flip214: alist is not 20:31:31 (#p"/tmp/my_file.doc" ...) in fixed width? 20:31:39 just did that 20:32:00 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:32:02 reload doesn't show it, though 20:32:28 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 20:32:52 wfm 20:32:54 i'd think "aN HTTP", but i don't know how other people read it 20:33:01 "If content is a sequence, Drakma will use LENGTH to determine its length" - how does it do that? for sockets, pipes, etc? 20:33:08 i changed that from "an http" to "a http" 20:33:22 flip214: hm? 20:33:45 "/must/ build" - must should be in ? 20:33:47 -!- [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:59 i read "an eitch tee tee pee" 20:34:02 *|3b|* would say 'an http' also 20:34:06 +1 20:34:17 google says "a http" is more popular than "an http" 20:34:21 ah, misread the sequence thing. sorry. 20:34:33 <|3b|> 'force-binary' under *body-format-function* links to #force-binary instead of #arg-force-binary 20:34:42 i'd say an http, too 20:34:46 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:50 H4ns: that's just hoi polloi misusing it! 20:35:42 |3b|: thanks, fixed 20:36:02 H4ns: google results only mean that most people don't know proper spelling 20:36:14 *|3b|* notes that rfc2616 uses both 'a http' and 'an http' 20:36:37 i like "a http" better than "an http" 20:37:20 do you read it like "a hyper text transfer protocol"? 20:37:38 is a flexi stream (see http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/) with a chunked stream (see http://weitz.de/chunga/) 20:37:43 should the links be links? ;) 20:38:07 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-094-223-008-034.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 20:38:13 or maybe it's an Irish way to pronounce it 20:39:16 *shrug* changed to an 20:39:18 vowel sound vs a vowel. HTTP as an abbreviation is pronounced letter by letter, so the letter h 20:39:31 -!- segmond__ is now known as segmond 20:39:44 H4ns: just wait till the irish blokes sober up 20:40:34 "default value of *BODY-FORMAT-FUNCTION* to decide whether a 'Content-Type' header" - most other single quotes are `' 20:40:51 *stassats* hears the rumble of the offended Irishmen 20:41:17 most paragraphs are cut at ~60% screen width, but some are not. is that intended? 20:41:42 <|3b|> under 'Cookies' it has "as its cookie-jar argument' which links to cookie jar class rather than the argument description 20:42:44 "followed by a #\= character" - how about "followed by a `=' character"? 20:43:01 <|3b|> 'original cookie specification' link doesn't seem to go anywhere useful anymore 20:45:20 LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] has joined #lisp 20:46:01 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:49:38 thanks! i think i've fixed most of that. 20:50:07 prxq 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22:50:34 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:36 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 22:56:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 22:56:41 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:43 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0860.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:18 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:34 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:12 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:04:29 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:07:28 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:34 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:23 <[6502]> JsLisp IDE first video ... not really Common Lisp, but not that far either... http://youtu.be/g2o5VKdQqZ4 23:13:54 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host200.181-1-200.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:14:32 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-145-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:15:11 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:17:42 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:18:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-154-106.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:19:29 -!- nkkarthik [~nkkarthik@c-24-5-121-135.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:20:48 -!- jd__ [~jd@prometheus.naquadah.org] has left #lisp 23:21:24 alpha123 [~turkchess@184-96-192-56.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:10 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206172.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 23:25:25 -!- urandom__ [~user@p54B0E1D5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:26:32 [6502]: Looks cool. 23:27:55 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:38 AeroNotix [~xeno@aatg122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:32:24 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.67.142] has joined #lisp 23:35:00 -!- alpha123 is now known as alpha123_gone 23:35:36 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@87.114.43.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:35:57 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aatg122.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:37:21 <[6502]> ThomasH: thanks... :-) ... sleeptime for me now 23:37:39 -!- [6502] [4e0cf39d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.243.157] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:38:51 xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:28 -!- auganov [~user@78.110.162.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:46 -!- mr_vile is now known as Tanami 23:44:17 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Changing host] 23:44:17 Tanami [~carnage@unaffiliated/tanami] has joined #lisp 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