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Do I have to muck around with the ASDF registry in order to dictate that foo depends on bar and where bar is? Or can I dictate where bar is right in the ASD itself? 01:15:59 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-154.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:16:20 The higher level problem is I have a quicklispable library, except I've modified it for my own usage, and I want to keep the modified form local to my current project (i.e., I don't want to add it in some "global" directory in ~ or something) 01:16:59 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:24 Qworkescence: you can push x into the asdf path list. 01:17:24 However, if I distrubute the source code, I don't want the third party modifications to live in some absolute path, I want it to be relative to the principal system 01:17:36 -!- csaba [~csaba@catv-80-98-157-212.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:25 csaba [~csaba@catv-80-98-157-212.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 01:18:43 skanev [~aquarius@109.58.197.207.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 01:20:21 sykopomp, when I do that and try to quickload, quicklisp still goes for whatever version on the quicklisp servers 01:22:12 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.188.5] has quit [Quit: good night] 01:25:07 I think quicklisp will favour a project (or symlink to project) in quicklisp/local-projects/ over the remote one with the same name. 01:26:09 (so a symlink might provide a workaround if I understood your problem correctly) 01:26:23 A symlink to one of the "global" directories 01:26:47 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:11 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 01:39:17 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@29.192.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:39:37 -!- PCChris [cyungmann_@dhcp-199-74-100-143.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:40:47 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:42:09 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.244.236] has joined #lisp 01:44:40 Qworkescence: you can ask in #quicklisp, but I don't think you can do that. What you can do is muck around with your asdf registries at load-time, which might do what you want 01:45:18 I am surprised we don't have the ability to do such a thing in the :DEPENDS-ON option in the DEFSYSTEM form. :( 01:45:25 Qworkescence: or you could give your modified version a different name 01:45:46 Qworkescence: or different version 01:47:38 PCChris [Chris@wireless-165-124-249-120.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 01:48:43 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:08 Qworkescence: you can specify the search paths in an environment variable to have a non-default version 01:51:27 My problem with that approach is that it's leaky. I mean it would work, but by modifying paths and stuff like that, we aren't really saying something about what a particular project should look for, but about what everyone should look for. 01:53:10 Qworkescence: you can specify the system name and the version. If you have two different systems with the same name and version, something is wrong. 01:53:28 I guess I can agree with that 01:53:37 (sort of) 01:54:11 If you really want to do this, then what you can do is have your application change the search path before loading the system 01:54:54 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:33 Qworkescence: you can check to see if one of the asdf extensions (e.g. adsf-utils) lets you do this though. 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closed the connection] 04:46:49 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 04:47:15 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 04:47:54 hey guys, using packages, is there a way to export all internal symbols of a structure? 04:48:02 without writing each one in the :export line? 04:49:08 jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh1873.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 04:53:44 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:57:11 sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.40.247] has joined #lisp 04:57:26 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh1873.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:01:41 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-59-142-111.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:01:57 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:14 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:02 ahungry: did you google it first? 05:05:04 ahungry: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9743056/common-lisp-exporting-symbols-from-packages 05:08:16 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.211] has joined #lisp 05:08:33 what's the best way of reducing the redundancy in this?: https://gist.github.com/4221914 05:08:50 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:43 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 05:09:47 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:07 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 05:10:11 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:29 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 05:11:43 put a "a"->"href", "img"->"src", etc table somewhere and use it 05:14:04 gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:01 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:19:04 -!- DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.128.58] has left #lisp 05:19:59 jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh1873.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 05:22:59 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:23:09 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:32 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 05:23:38 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:23:45 is there a way of making it so that slime print the line number when there is an error in compilation? 05:23:53 b 05:23:55 oops 05:26:49 cfy: I actually found that page and read through the thread but couldn't get it working right, I'll probably come back to it when I understand what its doing better, thanks 05:28:13 ahungry: all right 05:28:39 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 05:29:07 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:19 anyone ever read the book Successful Lisp: How to Understand and Use Common Lisp? (http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/cover.html) 05:29:46 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has left #lisp 05:29:58 I'm up to the start of chapter 4, seems good so far for a nub to it 05:30:17 nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 05:31:05 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh1873.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:35:10 jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh1873.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 05:36:36 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:38:28 uh... why am I getting an undefined variables for this code?: https://gist.github.com/4222036 05:39:01 you set *element-tag* before it's defined 05:39:01 I'm not sure what exactly that error is implying; if the error is where I turn the alist to a hashtable or when I try to access it 05:39:28 try using defparameter instead of setf there. 05:41:20 thank you, that removed 2 undefined errors 05:41:46 so defparameter has a different priority than setf? 05:41:57 new_one [~peter@50.10.183.158] has joined #lisp 05:42:43 now I am getting: ; Undefined variables: LET* PHIDIPPUS::TAG 05:42:56 the hell is "priority"? 05:43:48 erm... I'm not really sure. I just don't understand how defparameter fixed the problem. 05:43:59 that was just a shot in the dark I guess. 05:44:26 it defines the variable as globally specially, and sets it. setf just sets it. if it's undefined before that it's undefined. 05:44:37 as for your error, it's because your cond is wrong syntactically. 05:46:45 is the term 'dynamic variable' related to 'dynamic scope'? 05:46:50 it is. 05:47:16 a dynamic variable is dynamically scoped. in lisp we use "special" to refer to dynamic variables. 05:48:18 I guess I don't understand why you would want to mix dynamic and lexical scoping 05:49:42 I guess I will have to read more about it. thank you for helping me figure that out. 05:50:17 so do you guys primarily use lisp as a hobbyist tool or do you do it professionally? also would you always use lisp over other languages or in special case? 05:52:24 -!- ered [~ered@108-201-125-162.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:07 springz [~springz@116.226.208.161] has joined #lisp 06:00:19 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:02:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:12:17 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:42 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:14:35 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 06:15:17 cornihilio: dynamic scoping is really just a convenience thing. Functional purists will tell you they are bad, but it get's a bit cumbersome to pass state through functions that don't care about it just because they call something that calls something that cares about it. 06:16:57 ahungry: i'm a full-time lisp developer 06:17:09 cornihilio: obviously if you use it too much you get code that is a mess because too much state is implicit. 06:21:02 ahungry: although I don't make a living with lisp yet, calling it a hobby is an understatement, i . If I have an opportunity to use lisp, I will. 06:21:10 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.72] has joined #lisp 06:22:13 ahungry: Instead of a hobby I call it a primary tool for self-improvement as a programmer at this point. 06:24:27 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:26:17 z0a [~zainamro@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:28 actually nothing wrong with it being hobby, it implies that lisp is your language of choice and if you made the rules, you'd use it all the time. 06:27:27 nan_: I've been learning lisp and found it to be a beautiful language. Why isn't it more often used in the industry? 06:28:24 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@arh1873.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:28:45 teggi [~teggi@123.21.165.69] has joined #lisp 06:30:40 z0a: i wouldn't be the best person to answer that since i am also quite new, my reason was simple. i was unaware of the capabilities of lisp. 06:30:41 z0a: http://www.paulgraham.com/iflisp.html 06:31:25 flip214: I actually read PG's essays. I don't know how I missed that one. Thanks for the link. 06:33:05 i think this simple line explains it all (Beware of such reasoning. It gets you Windows.) 06:33:20 z0a: read Good News Bad News and How To Win Big for some thoughts on htat 06:34:58 jasom: Thanks for the heads up. I'm reading it right now. 06:35:13 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:40:14 I think I crashed my quicklisp again - network broke during (update-all-dists), and now it won't start updating again. "You already have the latest version of "quicklisp": 2012-11-25", bah 06:40:30 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:41:16 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:38 ah, (ql:quickload ...) seems to fetch the new versions. 06:45:51 what's the QL command to remove old versions again? 06:48:41 (ql-dist:uninstall (ql-dist:release "babel")) 06:49:52 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:51:45 -!- z0a [~zainamro@c-67-182-61-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:51:59 PCChris [cyungmann_@wireless-165-124-249-120.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 06:52:55 sw2wolf: thanks, found ( 06:53:02 (ql-dist:clean (ql-dist:dist "quicklisp")) 06:57:13 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:10 duko [~duko@cpe-76-174-26-24.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:01:13 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.181.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:02:37 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:07:14 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09:46 why is it that in my code https://gist.github.com/4222391 I can't seem to properly check if values exist in the hashtable? I know that they are querying a string that I've explicitly tested the existence of, but it's returning nil as thought it was unbounded 07:10:17 Why does schemer call its macro as hygienic ? 07:10:51 sw2wolf: wikipedia's article on hygenic macros is pretty good. 07:10:52 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.182] has joined #lisp 07:11:25 cornihilio: default hash table equality test is eql. try (eql "foo" "foo"). 07:11:27 yes 07:11:55 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:39 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 07:14:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:14:31 -!- pegu [~user@c242C76D9.static.as2116.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:44 Bike: I'm sorry, but could you be more specific? 07:16:34 cornihilio: you have (make-hash-table). that defines a hash table that uses the function eql to test if two keys are the same. two strings are not eql, even if they have the same contents. 07:22:17 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-152-229.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:53 Bike: thank you! but why did this test work though? https://gist.github.com/4222464 07:24:13 I'd think that the format would print nil and not script 07:24:25 cornihilio: did you compile the whole file? the compiler may have noticed that the two "script"s were similar, and coalesced them. 07:25:10 orthecreedence [~orthecree@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:16 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 07:25:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 07:25:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:25:47 -!- new_one [~peter@50.10.183.158] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:26:37 bubo [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 07:26:47 I've been using (ql:quickload "phidippus") to compile. 07:26:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:27:11 -!- ASau [~user@176.0.202.201] has quit [Quit: I be back.] 07:27:48 -!- springz [~springz@116.226.208.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:27:57 I'm guessing that doesn't do a full compile? 07:29:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:29:36 Cymew [~user@fw01.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:29:47 it loads it via asdf which i believe compiles it 07:30:42 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:31:08 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has left #lisp 07:32:52 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:25 -!- gridaphobe [~user@cpe-66-91-253-127.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:33:57 -!- orthecreedence [~orthecree@c-67-180-62-214.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 07:34:40 Bike_ [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:27 cornihilio: quickload probably compiles the file. might depend on your implementation. anyway, hopefully i've made the hash table thing clear. you can make a hash table with a different equality test by passing make-hash-table the :test argument; check the docs 07:35:49 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:35:54 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 07:37:44 paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:38:01 -!- mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-179.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:39:31 Bike: thank you, you have helped me fix my hashtable equal operator. 07:41:13 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.15] has joined #lisp 07:41:17 should I only be using eq and equal, and just skip using eql? or should I normally use eql except for strings? 07:41:31 strings aren't eq either. 07:42:05 right... eq only works by comparing memory addresses, right? 07:42:40 standardly speaking there are no memory addresses. practically speaking, yeah pretty much 07:43:08 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 07:45:59 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.199] has joined #lisp 07:49:54 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:51:24 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 07:51:59 bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 07:52:40 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:57:45 well, EQ implies identity, iirc 07:59:01 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:01:35 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:01:35 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:01:35 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:02:19 eql has to deal with numbers, primarily. two bignums or floats are not necessarily `eq', but they are always `eql' if they are really equal as numbers 08:02:21 see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_eql.htm 08:02:47 -!- duko 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(setf (if ) ) is defined in clisp. But it's not a standard place indeed. 08:50:09 whichever works for you; I've had success with st in the past (: 08:50:35 yason has worked well for me, but it's the only one i've tried 08:50:36 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:58 well, as far as i can tell there are 5, all seem under active development and at least 3 of them are by regulars here in the channel 08:51:54 my other experience was with cl-json, which has had floating point formatting problems last time I tried. they may have gotten fixed, but I switched to st-json and haven't looked back (: 08:52:29 ok, thanks 08:58:04 according to quicklisp download stats cl-json is the most popular followed by yason 08:59:57 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:03:32 eMBee: one issue to be aware of is that cl-json and yason both try to take a JSON package nickname, which can be annoying if you want to load multiple projects into the same image 09:04:08 Vivitron: not anymore 09:05:06 oh! that's good news 09:05:17 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:05:39 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-48-12.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:06:38 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-111-169-176-119.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:16:56 alama [~jessealam@stgt-5f7020b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:16 skanev [~aquarius@79.138.212.176.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 09:17:27 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:18:53 bitonic [~user@dyn1217-243.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:19:46 i'm having some trouble telling a readtable that #\: should be a constituent character 09:20:10 i want to read lists like "(a [: :] b)" has having four items 09:20:29 alama: write your own reader 09:20:50 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:12 as opposed to defining a new readtable? 09:21:19 alama: the lisp reader is meant to read lisp code, and it is usually better to not try using it for non-lisp data. 09:21:40 true 09:22:04 perhaps i should just escape weird (to lisp) stuff like [: as so: "[:" 09:22:26 [\: works 09:22:45 yes - if you want to use the reader and you can influence the data layout, make the data be close to lisp syntax. 09:23:08 i have complete control in this case, thankfully 09:23:11 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:23:19 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 09:23:25 so i can just escape these things as strings 09:23:39 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25:35 i think i was being too optimistic; my data could even contain things like "(a ( b c ) d)" 09:25:55 no way for the reader to figure out that this is really a list with six elements 09:26:06 i really must escape, it seems 09:26:41 "x" is not escaping 09:26:46 escaping is \x 09:26:51 or |x| 09:31:01 wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has joined #lisp 09:32:03 i see 09:32:26 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:32:45 well, putting double quotes around everything is another way for me to solve the problem 09:33:01 probably the best 09:33:17 just take care of \ and " in your data, if required. 09:33:30 right 09:37:10 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 09:37:55 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:22 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.183.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:39:15 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:40:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42:40 H4ns: may i ask what was your motivation for yason? 09:43:12 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.225] has joined #lisp 09:43:44 eMBee: i did not like cl-json because it comes with too much baggage. i wanted something simple, with a streaming interface and providing me precise control over the mapping between whatever lisp data type i have and json. 09:45:05 eMBee: cl-json makes several assumptions about the structure of the data that it serializes or parses into, so it is not easy to interface with it if you have your data structured differently - at least that was what i found when i looked at it 09:45:25 interesting 09:49:15 thanks 09:52:11 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 09:54:07 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.82.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:54:30 -!- skanev [~aquarius@79.138.212.176.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Quit: skanev] 09:55:13 I am not VERY clear when we should use #'handler-case or #'unwind-protect ? 09:55:36 they serve different purposes 09:56:12 springz [~springz@116.226.208.161] has joined #lisp 09:56:32 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.36] has joined #lisp 09:56:43 unwind-protect is there to make some (typically cleanup) code run when the stack is unwound, typically in response to handling a condition. 09:57:11 handler-case is there handle individual condition types. 09:57:32 then #'handler-case => Java's try, #'unwind-protect => java's finally ? 09:57:56 sw2wolf: similar, but not quite the same. read http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html 09:58:07 ircmouser [~guest@adsl-68-123-111-161.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:22 H4ns: thanks 09:58:42 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-lpppnpvijqnvpgph] has joined #lisp 09:58:54 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@61.157.40.247] has left #lisp 09:59:45 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 10:00:46 -!- p_l is now known as p_l|work 10:00:47 Xizor [~Xizor@46054hpv102217.ikoula.com] has joined #lisp 10:02:05 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c761.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:03:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:04:43 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:06:00 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:27 unwind-protect is for handling non-local exits, which may be caused by condition handling, but not only by it 10:11:41 and don't forget about handler-bind 10:12:14 stassats: he's gone 10:12:55 well, maybe somebody else will read it 10:20:41 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:21:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:22:10 /quit 10:22:18 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:25:43 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:28:48 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757ecc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:07 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 10:33:01 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 10:35:09 -!- springz [~springz@116.226.208.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:41 browndawg1 [~browndawg@117.201.95.190] has joined #lisp 10:36:49 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.84.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:42:14 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-91-209.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:46:17 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:46:54 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757ecc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:50:22 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 10:51:56 Thra11 [~thrall@29.192.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.82] has joined #lisp 10:52:54 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:54:43 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o Krystof 10:55:10 exocargo [~exocargo@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:13 rashi_0000 [~rashi@117.218.68.226] has joined #lisp 10:55:47 for initialize instance, do I have to also use with-slots or is that implied? 10:56:23 exocargo: your question doesn't make sense 10:56:49 exocargo: and there's nothing implied 10:56:49 with-slots allows to use shortcuts for slot-value, that is al 10:57:22 initialize-instance has access to initargs as keyword parameters, but that is all 10:57:22 stassats: it does if you think of C++ where the slots are implicit lexical variables 10:57:33 -!- rashi_0000 [~rashi@117.218.68.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:33 well, that's easy, stop thinking like it's C++ 10:59:37 err, I mean do I have to use with-slots? sorry about phrasing that incorrectly 10:59:52 you never have to use with-slots 11:00:15 exocargo: if you want the functionality of with-slots, you need to use with-slots. 11:00:15 exocargo: if you want to access slots by their name as if they were variables, you can use with-slots. 11:00:42 exocargo: as methods are not tied to individual classes, there is no implcit binding of slots to variables in methods. everything is explicit in clos. 11:00:44 exocargo: initialize-instance doesn't wrap itself in a form of with-slots 11:00:54 initialize-instance is an ordinary method, there's no magic 11:00:57 exocargo: or better yet, it doesn't wrap its body 11:02:13 but as i said, you can get initargs as keywords, so you if you just want to access a slot and its value is passed through initargs, you can use that 11:08:39 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1217-243.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:10:31 thank you for the responses! I think I have to go read 'practical common lisp' a bit more but I think I have a much better idea of what is going on 11:11:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-177-16.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:11:58 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:12:01 -!- kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:12:27 madnificent: is high performance and flexibility defining what keys to parse the main features for jsown, or are there other benefits? 11:16:51 bitonic [~user@dyn1195-83.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:19:03 -!- wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:19:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-186.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:24:10 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-088-075-159-058.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 11:24:46 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c761.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lisp 11:27:02 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:28:11 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:30:05 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1195-83.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:35 bitonic [~user@dyn1195-83.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:38:59 -!- Daditos [~kvirc@unaffiliated/daditos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:44 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:40:53 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:42:14 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 11:42:15 -!- _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:43:18 eMBee: i like the interface it offers to the user too, but that may just be me. 11:44:54 eMBee: it was originally built to get the couchdb map step faster, that's why you can select keys (and why speed was important). guess the speed doesn't hurt where i use it now. 11:51:01 -!- exocargo [~exocargo@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53:54 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 12:02:53 -!- skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: skanev] 12:03:52 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:05:45 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.82] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 12:05:56 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-152-229.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:07:13 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.82] has joined #lisp 12:08:07 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.82] has quit [Client Quit] 12:08:33 skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lisp 12:09:23 stardiviner [~stardivin@218.74.188.82] has joined #lisp 12:10:14 -!- kushal 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[~user@123.120.247.121] has joined #lisp 12:46:15 -!- mvilleneuve_ [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:46:23 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:47:36 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:47:55 hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 12:49:07 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:57:41 Raptum [~Raptum@168.8.27.4] has joined #lisp 13:06:43 jackss [~jj@77.237.115.242] has joined #lisp 13:10:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:11:53 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 13:21:08 -!- skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: skanev] 13:22:51 skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lisp 13:23:34 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:24:17 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:26:32 -!- skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Client Quit] 13:29:41 skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lisp 13:33:52 kilon [~user@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 13:36:23 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:37:06 -!- segmond_ is now known as segmond 13:40:30 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 13:43:45 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 13:43:58 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 13:46:26 madnificent: speed never hurts as long as it isn't achieved by cutting corners that cause problems in some cases (i am not implying that for jsown, just a general statement) 13:46:30 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:13 eMBee: speed hurt if it comes at the expense of code readability without actually being needed. 13:50:32 protist [~protist@125-237-130-19.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 13:50:43 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:54:34 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:55:23 yeah, that would be one way of cutting corners that causes problems 13:58:25 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:04:19 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 14:04:30 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:41 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:05:47 jsnell_ [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:18 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hofeihathmpqljet] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 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[~jj@77.237.115.242] has quit [Quit: jackss] 14:48:26 jackss [~jj@77.237.115.242] has joined #lisp 14:49:45 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:34 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:19 ebw [~user@f051169050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:07 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 14:56:08 nowhere_man_ [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-60-131.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:56:10 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-60-131.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:56:23 hmm, the filter function in jsown is interesting, but wouldn't such a function make sense as a generic function to extract data from, say, nested hash-tables? 14:56:48 eMBee: ask madnificent 14:57:06 woah 14:57:33 well, the question is actually, if anyone has seen such a function in other utility libraries, like alexandria 14:57:46 eMBee: i don't think it's right to make jsown publish that function. however, i certainly wouldn't mind a more standardised library for similar things, and jsown could implement that one too. 14:58:28 madnificent: what do you mean with "make jsown publish that function" ? 14:58:40 eMBee: I think I've written more than one API like that. 14:58:52 PCChris [cyungmann_@wireless-165-124-249-120.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 14:58:55 with chainable key access and stuff like that. 14:58:57 well, joswn could export the generic function filter, but that'd be ready for symbol conflicts 14:59:22 *madnificent* has written clone at least in three different libraries (though some use the others's clone now) 15:00:10 eMBee: https://github.com/sykopomp/chillax/blob/master/src/utils.lisp do you mean something like this? 15:00:14 madnificent: oh, i didn't mean it that way, but rather the way you said after: a more standardised library that jsown could use 15:00:21 (see 'at') 15:00:28 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:00:36 *madnificent* should look at utils.lisp busy now though 15:00:47 it's an 80-line file 15:00:52 you lazy bum 15:02:11 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:02:19 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:03 sykopomp: and the guy next to me is asking questions, and that has priority :) 15:03:17 *dim* M-: (window-height) gives 80 :) 15:03:36 sykopomp: that you have written api's like that supports my thought 15:04:07 dim: do you like small fonts or just tilt the screen side-ways? 15:05:47 screen size is 2560x1440, font size is not small 15:05:59 MB retina? 15:06:11 nope, that would be 2800x1800, just a 27" 15:06:26 but Emacs on the retina sees 1400x900 15:06:32 the 13" has something like that 15:06:54 wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 dim: depends on how you configure the display in the os 15:06:56 sykopomp: i think hashget in utils.lisp is what i meant 15:07:04 *madnificent* would buy an envy 14 spectre though 15:07:11 eMBee: I think what you actually meant was #'at 15:07:38 you can try convincing the alexandria mailing list of your hypothesis 15:08:20 2 560 x 1 600 for the retina 13" apparently 15:08:47 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.195] has joined #lisp 15:09:01 auganov [~user@81.219.90.233] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 but at is just a wrapper around hashget for objects 15:12:14 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:12 auganov` [~user@78.110.162.101] has joined #lisp 15:13:22 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:59 -!- auganov [~user@81.219.90.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19:03 Raptum [~Raptum@168.8.27.4] has joined #lisp 15:25:13 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:29 mattrepl 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[~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:10:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:10:59 NimeshNeema [uid2689@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aqrirwiwqtdeicam] has joined #lisp 16:11:42 -!- hkBst__ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:12:04 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 16:12:33 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:35 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:25 -!- p_l|work is now known as p_l 16:15:35 brandonz [~brandon@adsl-76-192-131-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:41 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 16:16:04 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:50 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.153.37.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:18:44 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.153.37.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:55 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:19:26 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:33 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.195] has joined #lisp 16:20:35 brandonz_ [~brandon@adsl-76-192-131-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:36 -!- brandonz [~brandon@adsl-76-192-131-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:22:42 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.214.169.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:23:00 I'm not seeing explicit async query support in postmodern docs, am I reading it wrong? 16:23:23 i don't think it has that 16:23:49 it does not 16:24:07 it has notifications, though 16:25:14 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@lvps5-35-242-57.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:25:14 insomniaSalt [~milan@fsf/member/insomniasalt] has joined #lisp 16:26:55 -!- jackss [~jj@77.237.115.242] has quit [Quit: jackss] 16:30:00 answer_42 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[~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 16:59:44 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:50 -!- skanev [~aquarius@109-104-31-130.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: skanev] 16:59:56 drakma 17:00:16 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 17:00:28 it works on lispworks only, at least that is what docs says 17:00:30 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 17:00:44 "All timeout keyword arguments are only available for LispWorks, write-timeout is only available for LispWorks 5.0 or higher" 17:01:32 that's not the docs i'm reading say 17:01:45 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:01:54 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@124.126.174.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:02:07 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:02:19 it says that connection-timeout is supported on abcl, clisp, LispWorks, mcl, openmcl and sbcl 17:02:33 and read-timeout and write-timeout only on lispworks 17:02:53 linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:02:54 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-166-69-158.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:33 superflit [~superflit@75-166-69-158.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:34 -!- asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-96-241-145-22.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:39 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:03:42 -!- xaxisx [~joey@67.217.170.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:03:48 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:49 zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-13-194.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:18 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:04:32 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-48-12.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:56 asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-96-241-145-22.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:56 ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-121-45.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:21 xaxisx [~joey@67.217.170.130] has joined #lisp 17:05:21 -!- asciilifeform is now known as Guest90125 17:05:55 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-012-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:12 cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 17:07:15 -!- antgreen [~user@dsl-207-112-126-76.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:31 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 17:09:41 newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has joined #lisp 17:11:39 pjb: you were building a lisp code stepper right? or is it someone else in the group? I am trying to study some code following execution and I am looking at something other than putting (break) or (invoke-debugger) on every next function 17:12:06 stassats, I need read-timeout also 17:12:11 thanks anyway 17:12:13 nicdev: you can just execute it in your head 17:15:30 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:17:50 stassats: i am not at that level of experience yet thought i am trying! i am reading cl-ppcre and also cl-ledger. i have heard that Edi libaries are good code to read on CL style and cl-ledger, i would like to build hunchentoot powered UI frontend to it 17:18:06 s/Edi/Edi's 17:19:20 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:20:40 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:20:48 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: pa/bye] 17:22:35 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:02 nicdev: IIRC cl-ledger uses floats for storing values, which will eventually bite you. 17:25:40 jasom: i am not familiar with the code that much yet but my plan was to create a fork and change it as i go as a learning experience 17:25:49 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:26:31 nicdev: I'm browsing the code now, and it looks like it doesn't actually specify any types, so if you entered all values as integers in your minimal currency unit, I suppose it would work fine 17:27:15 jasom: you're kidding. 17:27:40 if you enter integers doesn't mean that they will remain rational 17:27:58 stassats: won't they if you only use + * - / ? 17:28:15 is it using only those functions? 17:29:10 i will assume for financial calc that's probably all functions you're using but i am not sure that's the case 17:29:27 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:39 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:30:24 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 17:30:35 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:31:07 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-13-194.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [SeaMonkey 2.13.2/20121026203814]] 17:31:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:53 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-8-134.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 17:37:09 stassats: okay I foiund a type "value" that is used, but can't find it defined anywhere. I tried loading it in SBCL but sbcl crashed 17:37:19 -!- liweinan_ [~liweinan@222.130.224.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:37:21 -!- linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:37:35 crashed how? 17:38:44 nicdev: ah, apparently my information is out of date, it now uses a library by the same author (cambl) to handle values in a sane manner 17:38:57 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:39:44 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/+2VGN 17:40:37 sbcl 1.0.55-r1 on gentoo 17:41:51 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:21 it's a known bug 17:43:49 whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.85.133] has joined #lisp 17:43:58 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:12 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 17:45:13 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:46:17 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:48:59 -!- whitedawg [~whitedawg@122.179.85.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:26 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@acld208.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:52:43 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aatd54.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:54:34 PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has joined #lisp 17:54:40 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 17:55:01 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-28-117-185.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:05 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 17:57:08 ASau [~user@46.115.39.72] has joined #lisp 18:03:34 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:04:39 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@acld208.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 18:07:49 nicdev: Yes, I wrote a cl-stepper. 18:08:26 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-012-218.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:11:10 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@ip-64-134-66-154.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:12:33 nicdev: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp.lisp.stepper) (defpackage :example (:use :cl-stepper #|instead of :cl|#)) (in-package :example) (defun f (x) (if (zerop x) 1 (* x (f (1- x))))) (step (f 4)) And then it's interactive. You can type t RET to go back to trace mode. Read the doc: (documentation (find-package :cl-stepper) t) 18:12:34 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028349.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:34 -!- brandonz_ [~brandon@adsl-76-192-131-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:14:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:15:07 jasom: We have occurences not only of two, but even of three (and perhaps more) different packages with the same name! Yes, something is wrong, with the universe! <02:53:11> Qworkescence: you can specify the system name and the version. If you have two different systems with the same name and version, something is wrong. 18:17:04 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:32 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:03 thanks pjb. i will check it out later 18:18:21 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 18:21:27 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 18:23:12 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028349.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:46 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 18:24:47 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:27:32 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:14 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028349.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:16 clintm [uid1741@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eiaqypcvypqpahxr] has joined #lisp 18:32:08 pjb: presumably if you want to use two of them in the same image you will rename one? Please? 18:32:37 it'll break if something else depends on it 18:33:52 dlowe: true; in any event I don't consider it a huge weakness in asdf that it can't handle that 18:33:57 jasom: yes. 18:35:04 jasom: unless you are very lucky, and the implementation defpackage merges things and there's no collision in internal or external symbols in the two homonyms. 18:36:12 (defpackage :a (:use :cl) (:export :z)) (defpackage :a (:use :my-lisp) (:export :x)) a:z --> implementation dependant. 18:37:29 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:00 lufu [~user@5.254.129.153] has joined #lisp 18:38:08 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:39:54 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:41:47 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@2001:660:2402:14:121f:74ff:fecb:290e] has joined #lisp 18:42:36 mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 18:42:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@87-207-172-93.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 18:42:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:43:59 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:44:52 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 18:48:30 linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:48:34 francogrex [~user@109.129.154.10] has joined #lisp 18:48:56 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:50:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:51:54 -!- linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:24 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:54:30 ubii_ [~ubii@184.21.196.19] has joined #lisp 18:57:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:57:56 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:58:05 -!- yates [~user@nc-71-54-138-0.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.96.1] 18:58:44 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 18:58:48 hiyo 18:59:21 kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028349.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:41 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:02:00 -!- nan_ [~user@46.197.116.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:04:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:06:13 -!- YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 19:08:49 YokYok [~david@vmailbox.org] has joined #lisp 19:11:10 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-48-12.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:11:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 19:13:04 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:14:03 AeroNotix [~xeno@acld208.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:16:50 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:17:48 rainyman [~ra1nyman@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-130-146.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:19:02 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 19:20:17 pjb: I see http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/solitaire.lisp ; would you be interested in writing a simple GUI for it? 19:20:52 -!- CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:22:30 -!- yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:15 fms [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 19:25:18 -!- francogrex [~user@109.129.154.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:53 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:28:40 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:29:03 SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:54 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:35:12 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.165.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:44 LOL 19:38:19 why would he be interested in writing a simple GUI for it, why don't you write it yourself? 19:38:35 I currently don't have time, unfortunately 19:38:55 -!- rainyman [~ra1nyman@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-130-146.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:59 my goal is to come up with some kind of fun environment for learning a forst programming language 19:39:18 CatMtKing [~ra1nyman@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-130-146.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:39:25 ah, many people have, most people in this channel don't even have the time to type one line a day. 19:39:34 many people don't have either i mean. 19:39:38 I think lisp is a perfect candidate, common lisp not so much but I still like it, and I think something both simple and visual needs to be done 19:39:47 anyone tried to use sublime text 2 with lisp coding? 19:39:48 isn't cl-ledger very elisp style, due to the nature of the author's experience? 19:40:08 someone write a GUI for pjb's program using CLIM 19:40:11 case in point https://github.com/jwiegley/cl-ledger/blob/master/core/ledger.lisp#L414 19:40:18 i havent looked at the rest, though. 19:40:30 dim, well, it's not going to happen because you don't have time to make it happen. 19:40:34 Qworkescence: but then they would need to touch GPL code. 19:40:44 I think lispers have a tendency to be violently allergic to the gpl 19:41:19 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:41:28 dim, what do you think of lighttable? 19:41:40 yeah, because it's impossible* to use lisp code without having the source code, because there's no concept of abstract interfaces 19:42:39 dim, i have an idea for a programming environment, i won't be surprised if it's been done tho 19:43:04 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:44:04 blocky.io? 19:44:14 what i will like is to be in the repl and never leave it, the repl is both a repl and editor both in one. everytime i defun a new function say (defun foo () ...) a corresponding file foo.lsp is created and checked into version control, if i modify it, automatic version control. if i make a package, a file is created, and all the funtions defined in that package are automatically created in that file 19:45:09 needs more smalltalk 19:45:11 every test i do in the repl is automatically gathered and placed into a test package, i've never played with smalltalk, but i think it's kinda smalltalk like 19:45:23 makes me wonder why cl-ledger is not in quicklisp. Xach? just a matter of no one submitting it? 19:45:32 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-71-237-234-93.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:58 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:48:06 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:14 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-8-134.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:50:13 andy_arvid [~andy@201-24-10-154.cbace702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:51:15 -!- wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:02 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:52 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:01:14 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@frbg-4d028349.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:16 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:03:46 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:14 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 20:08:39 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.217.17] has joined #lisp 20:08:47 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:04 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-48-12.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:25 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:31 hello #lisp 20:15:24 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 I have the following problem: in one package, I have an alis that i want to access in another package. keys are symbols, vals are strings. now 20:16:33 now when i want to do assoc in the other package, i cant address the symbol keys directly, but have to do a:symbol. 20:17:01 how can I avoid having to export all the symbols in the alist in the first package? 20:17:21 use-package 20:17:26 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:29 i just want to be able to do (assoc 'key *alist*) in the other package. 20:17:59 Bike: i do that already. 20:18:05 arrk13: "in one package, I have an alis" -- problem starts from here. it's not the alist that you have in one package, it's the symbols in the alist that were interned in that package. 20:18:35 arrk13: can you use keywords instead? (i.e. :foo instead of 'a:foo) 20:18:57 didnt try that. how can i avoid interning all the symbols in the alist? 20:19:05 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:07 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:34 *sigh*.. too much to explain, but let me see where was that document... 20:19:43 in the mean time, try keywords. ;) 20:20:11 i'd rather like to use symbols as keys. 20:20:23 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20:25 arrk13: opinions are mixed about this document; it's kinda long, but I think it explains everything properly: www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf 20:20:39 keywords are symbols. 20:20:53 mishoo, a pdf isnt te answer i hoped to get. 20:21:21 i jsut wanted toknow how to allow an alist in one package to be adressed in another package. 20:21:43 alists aren't in packages. symbols aren't in packages. 20:21:48 er, symbols are in packages, I mean. 20:22:06 i know. so how to avoid interning all the symbols? 20:22:19 use qualified names? and package nicknames? 20:22:46 package:symbol is available from anywhere in your lisp image unless you've been shadowing it, right? 20:22:58 what do you mean by qualified names, a::symbol? 20:23:01 if it's an exported symbol of that package, yes. 20:23:30 no, that was exactly i wanted to avoid, always using the long form, i just want to have (assoc 'key *alist*) 20:23:47 you can use the package, then. 20:24:00 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:25:15 this is my problem B: when i use the first package, i get symbol conflicts between the two packages. 20:26:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.135.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:26:25 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:32 unintern all the symbols in second-package with equivalents in the first-package-exported list. 20:28:12 well, the first package is supposed to be a library, so it doesnt make sense to require every future user of that lib to unintern the symbols in their code to be able to use that lib. 20:29:18 they wouldn't have to. you only have to because you accidentally interned those symbols in your package before USEing the library package. 20:29:29 I'd like to do something in package A, so that (assoc 'key *alist*) in package B is possible. 20:29:37 Export it. 20:29:40 That's all there is. 20:29:59 exporting keys of an association list seems like a pretty bad idea in general 20:30:53 arrk13, what are you building? 20:30:54 arrk13: presumably, in package A you have something like (defvar *alist* '((key . "value"))) 20:31:07 if that is the case, do you know at which time is the symbol 'key interned in package A? 20:31:18 mishoo, yes, I'd list like to make an alist available to all user packages. 20:31:30 mishoo, i dont know. 20:31:51 then that is why that document is for you, and any other quick answer we can provide will only increase your confusion level 20:32:41 mishoo, i just wanted to know how to provide users of package B an alist from package A, that is all. is that too hard to answer? 20:33:08 yes, because you don't understand how packages work well enough to ask a question that makes sense, is all. 20:33:15 trying to program in lisp is like trying to fly an airplane without ever studying one, just because you saw a pilot manipulate a yoke, it's not that easy 20:33:27 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:33:36 you are going to bump your head over and over into simple things and waste your time and other people's time asking for help 20:34:28 read at least one lisp book from beginning to end, saves a lot of time, google "common lisp - an interactive approach" it has at least 2 chapters on packages with lots of examples and exercises. 20:34:29 ah, PCL has too a section on this, of course: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html 20:34:35 so jsut giving me I pdf I already know as an answer isnt the answer I hoped to get. I hoped to get "do A, B C, done." why is provinding an alist to another package such a problem? 20:35:02 arrk13: alists are not in packages. you need to understand this. 20:35:20 Bike, i understand this. 20:35:29 arrk13: if you want to export a symbol, you export it. then another package can USE the first package and use its symbols unqualified. 20:35:32 done. 20:36:03 arrk13: or, if you have for example: (defvar *alist* '((:foo . "bar"))) 20:36:07 then in package B you can say: 20:36:09 i already do that, but get package conflicts when i do (assoc 'key *alist*) in B. 20:36:25 (assoc :foo *alist*) 20:36:37 (no need to prefix with A, but you need the colon) 20:36:38 arrk13, is the symbol 'foo in package a, package b or package c the same or do they all have own 'foo? 20:36:46 arrk13: because you already have 'key interned in B. unintern it. 20:36:47 -!- ebw [~user@f051169050.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:14 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:17 arrk13: if you clear your system, and B is defined to USE A right off, the conflicts will disappear. 20:38:29 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:39:27 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.217.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:39:42 Bike: the only occasion i use that symbol in B is in the (assoc 'key *alist*) form. 20:39:58 -!- mjflick [mjflick@gateway/shell/gnu/x-wtioumuoukewqoeg] has quit [Changing host] 20:39:58 mjflick [mjflick@gnu/savannah/team/mjflick] has joined #lisp 20:40:18 arrk13: yes, but it's already interned in your system. 20:40:22 in B. 20:40:39 if you unintern it, or clear your system, the conflicts will disappear. 20:41:37 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-96-240-138-223.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:37 *mishoo* thinks ..oO( and he'll be happy until next time :) ) 20:41:41 okay.how do I clear the system? 20:42:00 just restart your lisp, I mean. 20:42:22 And make sure you have :use and all in B's defpackage so you doon't run into this again. 20:44:33 arrk13: why don't you use keywords instead of symbols in package a? 20:44:46 (for the keys that is) 20:46:17 I could, but I wanted to understand why symbols are not working. 20:47:06 arrk13: there can be many symbols named 'foo 20:47:32 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:00 arrk13: If package "B" already has a symbol named foo, then you can't import the symbol named foo from package "A" without getting an error 20:48:29 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:48:43 note that importing and using are different things. 20:49:04 arrk13: you can still use the symbol foo from package A by doing A:foo 20:49:09 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 20:49:21 (or A::foo if foo isn't exported from package A) 20:50:26 (and 'A::foo is a read-time error if there's no 'foo package in A [1], and A:foo is an error if [1] or 'foo is not exported) 20:50:27 arrk13: if all you care about is using the symbol-name as a keyword (you don't need namespacing or such) then you can use keywords 21:00:09 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:05:00 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-10.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:03 Raptum [~cdh473@h47.188.28.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:46 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:12 skanev [~aquarius@95.209.52.151.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:15:34 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.17.196] has joined #lisp 21:21:42 -!- bind [~bind@D4B2749A.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:23:09 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-154.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:42 ngz [~user@118.97.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:42 -!- Jasko2 [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:53 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:26:58 Jasko2 [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:03 felideon: cl-ledger did not build directly, i think i still had to update could local-time calls that were out of sync with the latest API 21:28:20 why do you want to use cl-ledger? 21:28:24 nobody should use that. 21:28:26 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@2001:660:2402:14:121f:74ff:fecb:290e] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:28:35 (from an accounting perspective, that is) 21:29:00 ehu: really? 21:29:29 yes. it uses floats to record values. In accounting you should use decimals, not floats. 21:29:39 or you could just use integers 21:29:47 i want to build a web UI on top of it as a learning exercise. 21:29:54 ehu: Patches Welcome(tm) ? 21:30:07 -!- ubii_ is now known as ubii 21:30:13 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-izxatpetzqgijjng] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:28 maybe i will attempt that after i manage to wrap my head around the codebase 21:31:07 the cl-ledger code didn't look too tough 21:31:12 felideon: sure. but I already contribute to accounting software which has a much better design. 21:31:30 felideon: so, I'm affraid you should not look at me for that. 21:31:34 ehu: would you mind sharing? 21:32:07 felideon: I work on LedgerSMB (http://ledgersmb.org/) 21:32:14 -!- ered [~ered@2001:470:8:a21:8e89:a5ff:fe15:4aa0] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:25 it's not Common Lisp, but will support common lisp bindings. 21:33:19 ered [~ered@2001:470:8:a21:8e89:a5ff:fe15:4aa0] has joined #lisp 21:34:43 why (loop repeat 10 for x in (let* ((l (list 1 2 3))) (rplacd (last l) l)) collect x) gives (3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3) 21:35:00 I don't understand why it begins with 3, not with 1 21:36:17 dim: rplacd returns the cons you pass it, which is (last l) here 21:36:21 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:36:22 oh, got it 21:36:34 (loop repeat 10 for x in (let* ((l (list 1 2 3))) (rplacd (last l) l) l) collect x) 21:36:36 thanks 21:37:02 or just (setf (cdr (last l)) l), since setf returns the new value 21:37:35 Bike, have you ever said RPLACD aloud? 21:37:41 ehu: thanks 21:37:47 "replaced"? 21:37:50 why? 21:38:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-149-147.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:38:15 snearch [~snearch@g225171228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:38 brown` [user@nat/google/x-mgjvhpbgpomnskpl] has joined #lisp 21:39:22 felideon: or you might be interested in c++ ledger / hledger 21:39:31 you say it as "replaced?" i say it as "REP_LAH_CAD" 21:40:01 Krystof: well, I had figured cl-ledger was form the same author. maybe that was just his 'i want to learn CL' project. 21:40:02 but then again, i don't talk to many people so i have my own weird vocabulary and pronunciations 21:40:07 from* 21:40:14 Bike, wow, i never saw it as "replaced" 21:40:18 i don't usually say it, partly because i don't usually use it, partly because setf is right there 21:40:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:40 actually, the clhs has pronunciations right there. «rplacd: [,ree'plakduh] or [,ruh'plakduh] or [,ree'plakdee] or [,ruh'plakdee]» 21:40:46 yeah I know 21:40:56 so now you can talk with all your lispy friends about ancient cons manipulation functions with impunity 21:41:02 :))) 21:41:33 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 21:41:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:41:54 well, i'm not too far off 21:44:23 -!- jsucsy [~JSU@static-98-113-154-10.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:45:13 s/figured/figured it was a sane option/ 21:49:17 SrPx [bad4ba35@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.212.186.53] has joined #lisp 21:49:32 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.41.76] has joined #lisp 21:51:35 dim: Microsoft has already written a very good GUI for Solitaire. I don't think I'll compete with them ;-) 21:52:09 it's not a good way to learn common lisp, theirs 21:53:52 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:00 ah damn I've been playing the alternate-function game with some lag 21:55:54 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:22 arrk13: Just use :test (assoc 'key other-package:*a-list* :test (function string-equal)) 21:58:33 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 21:58:50 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:58:58 dim: notice that rplaca and rplacd in emacs lisp returns a different result than in Common Lisp. 21:59:01 pjb: Bike's suggestion to "clear" the image, and then simply to export all the symbols in the alist worked, so I'll use that. 21:59:31 i dont really understand what "clearing" did, but it prevented further symbol conflicts, so i'm done. 22:00:13 Far from it. 22:00:27 You're not done, since you didn't understand the first word. 22:00:39 using nconc rather than (setf (last (cdr l)) l) seems clever 22:00:40 You're toasted. 22:01:09 why is that? 22:01:24 oh, not me, maybe 22:01:26 Well, it assumes a lot about now nconc is implemented. 22:01:41 ah yes, me. fair enough, reading the specs 22:01:41 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:47 nconc is defined pretty specifically in the clhs 22:01:50 (defun nconc (a b) (setf (cdr (last a)) b)) 22:02:00 pjb: actually, the clhs says quite a lot about th implementation of nconc 22:02:07 i dont have to understand everything, I'm content if it does what i want it to. 22:02:07 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:31 arrk13: earlier you said you wanted to understand.. 22:02:32 Yes, it should work. 22:02:43 pjb: invalid, «(nconc list-1 list-2) == (progn (rplacd (last list-1) list-2) list-1)» 22:03:03 arrk13: then you're a customer, not a programmer. Tell us your invoicing address, we'll send the bill. 22:03:14 pjb: I'm actually building a circular list here, of course 22:03:19 arrk13: it isn't a bad habit to try and learn what went wrong. perhaps the day after. you'll miss the same thing next time. it's certainly ok to be too tired right now, but don't ignore it completely. 22:03:23 well it looks like nconc pretty well fits the bill 22:03:35 Bike: what do you say "invalid", It should be good. 22:03:41 dim: of course, there are probably better ways to do this than circular lists 22:03:54 pjb: your version returns the head of the second list, doesn't it? 22:04:15 Bike: right, I didn't consider the result. 22:04:26 -!- snearch [~snearch@g225171228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:04:34 Bike: the exercice is to implement alternate-functions in (mapcar (alternate-functions #'1+ #'1- #'2+ #'2-) (list 10 20 30 40 50 60)) --> (11 19 32 38 51 59) 22:04:43 from c.l.l 22:04:52 well it's an extension of the question as asked first 22:05:38 Circular lists are ok when they're internal and well controled. You just have to be extra careful. 22:06:08 dim: by the way, I just commited a correction to solitaire, there were a few bugs. 22:06:19 hehe, cool 22:06:59 pjb: in that very case it's a closure, only the function using the circular list is exposed 22:07:18 madnificent: I'm not ignoring it, i just dont have enough time to learn everything before i start doing something useful with it. 22:07:54 if I had time to spend on it, i probably would. 22:08:14 arrk13: well, accidentally intering symbols before useing packages is a reasonably common error, or at least i do it a lot, so it would be nice to be able to deal with it quickly in the future, that's all 22:08:14 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:08:44 arrk13: you don't have to use packages either. At first. 22:08:44 xach had a good post about it 22:08:49 arrk13: oh, xach wrote a short post about symbol conflicts that may be informative without being exhaustive. http://lisptips.com/post/34436452765/ 22:08:59 okay, thanks. 22:09:08 arrk13: and i like that attitude btw 22:11:54 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:22 thanks everybody once again, bye. 22:15:27 -!- arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 22:15:42 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:10 -!- echo-area [~user@123.120.247.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:29 echo-area [~user@123.120.247.121] has joined #lisp 22:24:27 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:27:24 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:14 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 22:31:06 Oladon_work [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:13 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:33:08 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:26 pjb: I'm curious now why you used the term "family" instead of "suit" or "enseigne" in your solitare program 22:34:33 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:37 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:34:37 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 22:37:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-186.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:35 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:35 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:31 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:44:40 Bacteria [~Bacteria@2001:388:608c:946:6098:9050:2643:b76c] has joined #lisp 22:45:29 pjb: also you use piques in some places and pique in others 22:46:41 riverc4c [~grive@pool-71-183-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:07 I need to take a list in the form of (("a" 1) ("a" 3) ("b" 5) ("b" 3)) and output a list like (("a" 1 3) ("b" 5 3)), but I can't seem to think how to do it. Any suggestions? 22:49:28 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@84.159.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:51:14 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 22:52:22 -!- SanderM [~quassel@vhe-400104.sshn.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:29 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 22:56:55 Oladon_work: how about using the letter as a key and pushing the values into a hash? 22:57:11 s/letter/string/ 22:57:22 or sorting first, etc. 22:58:14 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 22:58:49 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:58:56 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c761.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:08 -!- ngz [~user@118.97.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:59:18 Hrm... I'd thought of a hash, but... so map over the list, and push each value onto the end of the hash value, which is itself a list? 22:59:59 something like that 23:00:39 hrm. 23:03:22 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:03:48 -!- skanev [~aquarius@95.209.52.151.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:03:54 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:06:15 setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@183.106.96.14] has joined #lisp 23:07:25 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:32 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:46 joooooo [~setmeaway@183.106.96.16] has joined #lisp 23:07:50 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 23:07:54 Oladon_work, http://paste.lisp.org/display/134089 23:08:54 yeah, nice! 23:09:17 I really wish there was an alexandria chapter in the practical common lisp. 23:09:26 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:09:36 antoszka: or a hyperspec with alexandria added? 23:09:37 Ooh 23:09:40 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:09:43 Qworkescence: Thank you! 23:09:45 Or there should be a pcl-2 book showing all the canonical libraries in real-world use. I'm missing a compendium of that kind. 23:09:55 setmeaway [stemearay@183.106.96.17] has joined #lisp 23:09:59 jasom: I wouldn't touch the hyperspec :) 23:10:00 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.222.252.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:47 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@acld208.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:11:48 -!- setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@183.106.96.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:54 -!- joooooo [~setmeaway@183.106.96.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:43 Oladon_work, maybe easier to read, depending on your taste http://paste.lisp.org/display/134089#1 23:15:24 except for that mis-indented last line :) 23:16:01 Qworkescence: I owe you a chocolate bar, sir. :) 23:16:05 hah 23:16:47 jasom: I'm French. 23:17:56 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:52 pjb: I guessed that from your name; "family" isn't a french word that I'm aware of ;-) 23:19:05 Famille is. 23:19:10 ah 23:21:06 And I'm not really a card player, so I didn't have the English card playing vocabulary. 23:21:12 It's an old program :-) 23:21:18 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 23:21:21 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:21:37 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:21:46 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:22:26 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 23:22:34 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-0-171.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 23:23:11 pjb: ah I'm a bit of a card player, and I rememberd L'enseigne for suit, but that was with someone from Quebec 23:24:05 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:24:14 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:24:23 Internal identifiers in programs are often strange :-) 23:24:40 Qworkescence: seriously, thank you :) 23:24:46 pjb: you should have used :i then it would be crystal clear :) 23:25:12 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 23:25:28 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 23:25:58 pjb: but anyway I'm bored so I might as well make a gui for your program :) 23:26:14 Have fun! 23:26:28 Oladon_work, this might be nicer, depending on your perspective. :) http://paste.lisp.org/display/134089#2 23:26:39 Even with CLX it should be easy enough. 23:26:46 pjb: LTK 23:26:52 Even easier. 23:26:58 pjb, CLIM 23:27:05 (now you say, "Even easier.") 23:27:30 Even easier. 23:27:31 ltk has the amazing advantage over all other toolkits I've used of compiling successfully on every lisp I've used, and not crashing 23:27:41 Qworkescence: even prettier! I'm gonna go study all three and make sure I understand them :) 23:27:51 though I've heard good things about the qt bindings 23:28:54 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:29:29 -!- riverc4c [~grive@pool-71-183-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:29:51 -!- andy_arvid [~andy@201-24-10-154.cbace702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:30:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:24 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:35:06 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:35:14 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.194] has joined #lisp 23:35:27 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:38:47 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 23:49:14 riverc4c [~grive@pool-71-183-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:43 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has left #lisp 23:55:14 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 23:55:57 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.234.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp