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[~user@p548A1812.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:22:07 ASau [~user@46.115.109.167] has joined #lisp 00:25:27 sellout [~Adium@98.245.92.119] has joined #lisp 00:28:54 *easye* wishes he had done a thesis (or extended work) on CL MOP implementations. 00:29:07 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:29:15 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:29:20 (A)MOP is just big enough that I can't seem to keep it all in my head, comfortably. 00:32:09 andares_ [~andares@c-66-235-60-236.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:34 -!- matija` [~user@188-230-150-66.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:35:27 -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:17 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-091-089-000-047.hsi2.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: this computer sucks] 00:42:00 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.227.13] 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01:19:20 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@d110-33-233-154.bla801.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:20:02 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-176-243.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 01:20:30 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:21:43 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:49 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@96.240.138.223] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:22:18 levabalkin [~levabalki@89.46.143.44] has joined #lisp 01:23:01 Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483A225.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:11 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@99-71-111-56.lightspeed.whtnil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:43 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@84.131.171.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:47 PCChris [~Chris@dhcp-199-74-100-143.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 01:25:03 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 01:27:34 infiniteone [~infiniteo@76.126.91.167] has joined #lisp 01:27:41 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:28:42 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:31:48 -!- PuercoPo` [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:00 xscc [~xscc@113.200.85.254] has joined #lisp 01:32:23 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:32:58 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.253.168] has joined #lisp 01:33:16 I have slime connections to a couple of different remote lisps. The REPL buffer names get too confusing ("*slime-repl sbcl<2>*" etc). Any suggestions on what to do? 01:33:55 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:34:00 M-x rename-buffer? 01:35:09 -!- fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:35:48 Sure, but I was hoping for the buffer names to be meaningful without requiring manual intervention. 01:36:44 mnb [~user@190.138.36.219] has joined #lisp 01:37:20 -!- levabalkin [~levabalki@89.46.143.44] has quit [] 01:39:40 -!- infiniteone [~infiniteo@76.126.91.167] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobiuWpdkd&fin2qu3R] 01:40:15 g3n3r0 [~g3n3r0@pool-108-41-191-134.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:18 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:28 -!- xscc [~xscc@113.200.85.254] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 01:43:18 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.49.236] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:00 sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.155.65] has joined #lisp 01:46:39 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 01:46:43 Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 01:51:12 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has joined #lisp 01:52:39 -!- carlo5 [~510carlos@71.198.252.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:35 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.139] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:58:44 -!- g3n3r0 [~g3n3r0@pool-108-41-191-134.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:03:51 pnq1 [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 02:05:26 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:05:42 QuickSilver__ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:29 Joreji_ [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 02:06:32 -!- QuickSilver_ [~ait@204.110.112.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:17 ecl is kewl. Glad to have ECLM 2013 in Madrid. 02:10:42 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:10:49 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ogwpdfhoszaknyon] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:13:47 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 02:15:24 sigjuice: well, write some elisp to automate that :) 02:15:41 easye: if only I knew few weeks earlier, I'd have applied for funding from work :/ 02:17:26 p_l: Most other buffers I have get fixed by uniquify. REPL buffers are the only buffers I have with <2>, <3> etc. tacked on. 02:18:47 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 02:20:34 -!- QuickSilver__ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:53 QuickSilver_ [~ait@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:59 carlo5 [~510carlos@c-67-164-117-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:02 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:32 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 02:28:48 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: klltkr] 02:29:52 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 02:31:39 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-147-119.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 02:31:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:31:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:33:14 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@apn-89-223-147-119.vodafone.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:37:17 myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 02:37:38 -!- mmaul [~user@174.109.84.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:39:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:51:12 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:58:02 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 02:59:59 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:38 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:05:00 mmaul [~user@174.109.84.82] has joined #lisp 03:05:05 sigjuice: because they don't have files associated with them, so uniquify doesn't handle them 03:07:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:08:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:08:23 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 03:09:59 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:11:30 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:14:22 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:16:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:21:06 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925067190.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 03:21:52 p_l: maybe this is easy to accomplish by changing slime? 03:23:18 -!- snits_ [~snits@174-17-106-222.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:23:33 what are you trying to do? 03:24:40 I am hoping to get nice looking REPL buffer names automatically, instead of "*slime-repl sbcl<2>*" 03:29:18 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:29:29 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-105-19.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:31:20 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.253.168] has quit [Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/] 03:34:42 francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925067190.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:36:09 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:13 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.81.200.72] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 03:39:30 mattrepl [~mattrepl@96.240.138.223] has joined #lisp 03:43:04 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-72-66-104-130.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:46:45 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:47:55 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:53:40 DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.128.58] has joined #lisp 03:54:23 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:55:51 -!- am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:56:03 hi quick question, i have a recursive lisp function im trying to figure out exactly why it works. http://paste.lisp.org/display/134030 03:56:41 The recursive case doesn't seem to be (n+1)^2, but it works 03:57:18 why is square called with two arguments? 03:57:35 sorry syntaxical error 03:57:41 should be (- 1 X) 03:58:07 that doesn't answer my question 03:58:58 i see one lambda variable 03:59:02 syntatical error* 03:59:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:59:28 DoctorDude: the straightforward way to understand recursive functions is to map them directly to mathematical induction. 03:59:28 your sight is failing you then 03:59:53 square accepts only one argument, but you call it with two 04:00:10 in your case, you can try to re-express the computation as a sum, and see if that maps to an identity you recognize. 04:00:11 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:00:51 pkhuong: right that's what im trying to do. Since the recurisve case is the inductive case, I'm trying to figure out why that works since (n+1)^2 != n^2+2n-1 04:01:05 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@96.240.138.223] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:01:10 and where did the variable N came from? 04:01:32 transcription error, only one variable 04:01:43 you haven't even tried running it, did you? 04:02:04 let me redo the paste 04:02:35 DoctorDude: you made a trivial beta-substitution error. 04:02:39 -!- benny [~user@i577A814E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:03:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134031 04:04:31 pkhuoung: beta substitution? please elaborate 04:06:12 you use the same name "n" for two different variables. You got confused when substituting n with (n+1). Suppose than it works for n0, and that n = n0+1, and everything should work out fit. 04:06:40 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: klltkr] 04:06:53 one day, math people will pay as much attention to scoping as programmers. 04:07:02 DoctorDude: that paste still has both unmatched parenthesis and a wrong number of arguments to square 04:08:25 pkhuong: if the base case is n^2, then the inductive case is (n+1)^2 right? (n+1)^2 = n^2+2n+1. But having tried that in code, i found the pasted solution works and im struggling to see how to derive it 04:09:13 DoctorDude: no, the right hand size is wrong. 04:09:39 *side 04:10:53 pkhuong: (n+1)^2 != n^2+2n+1? 04:11:23 -!- mmaul [~user@174.109.84.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:12:03 DoctorDude: when you try to go from than identity to the right hand side in the recursive (induction) step. 04:12:04 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:12:48 square(n) = square(n-1)+2n-1, so square(n+1) = ? 04:16:01 I'm not seeing it, I'm sorry... 04:18:25 -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:21:03 Ah 04:21:25 so my mistake is square(x-1)+2(x-1)+1? 04:21:30 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 04:22:14 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:23:31 and how does that reduce to square(x-1)+2(x)-1? 04:26:34 pkhuong: you mean square(n-1) = ? 04:26:35 ? 04:27:13 pkhuong: yes n-1 04:28:56 -!- piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:29:30 DoctorDude: do you know that (a - b)^2 = (a^2 -2ab + b^2)? 04:29:33 no, I don't. 04:29:56 In the meantime, DoctorDude seems to be stuck on 2(x-1)+1 ?= 2x-1. 04:30:50 piko_ [~piko@194.228.13.228] has joined #lisp 04:32:00 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:22 pkhuong: ok. it's late, thank you. 04:34:04 ah, right, we need (n + 1), so, that means knowing (a + b)^2 = (a^2 + 2ab + b^2) 04:35:05 teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has joined #lisp 04:35:56 stassats: I've figured out the problem, just needed increased verbosity to understand how to derive the solution 04:36:14 right, and i didn't read the whole log 04:36:25 but still, your parenthesis are not matched 04:36:43 do you have a lisp implementation? 04:36:55 yeah i use sbcl 04:37:13 but that example came from paper, so the mismatch parenthesis was a transcription error 04:38:02 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:38:42 -!- senj [~senj@70.74.172.70] has quit [] 04:39:43 maybe there's something else we can talk about. this is a great group bonding experience. 04:40:08 The concept of a closure 04:40:12 anything about Common Lisp will do fine 04:40:22 minion: please tell DoctorDude about PCL 04:40:22 DoctorDude: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:40:32 this will explain closures, and mroe 04:40:35 more 04:40:53 Ok thanks 04:43:28 mhenry` [~user@218.94.61.62] has joined #lisp 04:45:14 benny [~user@87.122.141.11] has joined #lisp 04:45:28 One more thing - how widespread is lisp or other functional programming languages in the field of computer security? (antivirus software and so on) 04:46:06 lisp is not really a functional programming language 04:46:23 right, multi-paradigm 04:47:07 but i learned lisp in the functional paradigm so that's why i categorized it as such... 04:47:24 staying away from side effects 04:47:36 as much as possible anyway 04:47:45 lessee, I think most computer security tools mostly deal with C and assembly, I think IDA might have Python plugins though? 04:51:00 I know a couple people who used scheme or haskell to solve combinatorial problems involved in the generation of exploits (return-to-libc kind of thing). 04:52:05 -!- francisl [~anonymous@bas6-montreal45-2925067190.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 04:52:23 i heard some people using scheme for making viruses 04:53:58 there it is http://philosecurity.org/2009/01/12/interview-with-an-adware-author 04:54:30 i know complete programing languages are turing equivalent, but can lisp can be considered the "right language for the job" when it comes to security? 04:55:25 antivirus software doesn't sound like "the right solution for security" 04:56:39 no i dont think so either 04:56:58 more or less like bandaid on an open wound 04:57:24 otherwise, i don't know what you mean about languages for security, if you write a system in Common Lisp, then yes, it can be made secure 04:58:16 like using lisp to design an IPS for example 04:58:59 intrusion prevention system? 04:59:02 Lisp is just a language. You can make that decision on your own - are you comfortable with Lisp, and will you have an implementation on the platforms you want to target? Then yes. 04:59:41 stassats: yup 04:59:47 The question isn't the language's applicability to the problem really, it's your preferences and aptitudes. 04:59:59 -!- mhenry` [~user@218.94.61.62] has left #lisp 05:00:39 xscc [~xscc@113.200.107.73] has joined #lisp 05:00:41 ChibaPet: Very respectable answer, thanks 05:02:05 Is it a useful answer, though? I mean for it to be useful. Your decision on a language to pick for your implementation sounds pretty arbitrary in this case. You're not deploying to iOS, so you can choose anything. So, what language(s) will get you to a working system with the least effort and least pain? 05:02:29 What language gives you the most comfort with respect to maintenance? 05:03:04 g3n3r0 [~g3n3r0@pool-108-41-191-134.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:17 There's nothing unique about Lisp to make it better or worse for this specific problem, discounting the notion that it might be the easiest in which to develop a language that addresses your specific problem set. 05:03:45 ChibaPet: Such as a domain specific language 05:04:04 Alright, bedtime for me, but I'll leave off with "there's nothing that would recommend against using Lisp for what you're describing." 05:04:31 ChibaPet: Ok thanks again for your insight 05:04:32 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:04:37 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:04:46 well, i write everything in lisp, if i have control over it 05:06:00 -!- carlo5 [~510carlos@c-67-164-117-232.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:17 stassats: if i may ask how long have you been programming in lisp? 05:07:12 5 years, i guess 05:07:44 stassats: i've got two months :P 05:08:29 stassats: how long would you say it took you to be proficient (assuming consistency in use)? 05:08:54 i don't really remember 05:09:33 Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 05:09:36 i still learn things which improve my ability to write in lisp, so, it's a never-ending process 05:09:36 -!- Eldariof-ru [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:11 -!- xscc [~xscc@113.200.107.73] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:11:31 and i don't know how to define proficiency, not needing to lookup the specs when just writing code? or not needing in 3/4 of the time? 05:11:48 -!- g3n3r0 [~g3n3r0@pool-108-41-191-134.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:04 -!- Eldariof93-ru [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 05:12:05 stassats: I guess not needing it most of the time 05:14:07 well, since you learned how to define SQUARE without using multiplication, without a need to lookup the docs 05:14:27 and if you looked up, you would find *, and even more EXPT, so, that's a not useful metric 05:14:57 maybe something "ability to write code which upon revisiting a year later wouldn't cause a heartache" 05:16:08 stassats: well i guess i didnt define my metric properly, maybe something like the point at which the language no longer felt new 05:16:24 stassats: and that could be a bad metric too since that could vary wildly person to person 05:16:39 or maybe not having "oh, i can do it in perl faster, i'll use it instead" 05:17:01 stassats: sure 05:17:28 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:17:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:17:53 or maybe it's the first time you contribute to a third-party open-source project 05:17:55 Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 05:18:04 or get a job writing lisp 05:19:02 Joreji_ [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 05:20:32 stassats: do you know of major open source projects that use lisp? (besides the lisp implementations, emacs, etc) 05:21:15 DoctorDude: stumpwm 05:21:30 maxima 05:21:36 clfswm,hunchentoot 05:21:45 segv- [~mb@188.102.172.8] has joined #lisp 05:22:31 -!- segv- [~mb@188.102.172.8] has quit [Client Quit] 05:23:14 there tends to be not much end-product open source projects in lisp, for some reason 05:23:24 many libraries and stuff like that, though 05:24:43 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:04 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:26:47 thanks, would be nice to look at "real" lisp code (i.e. not from a textbook) 05:27:20 M-. something that seems interesting. 05:27:26 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28:21 yeah something interesting, not that code in the textbooks aren't "real" 05:28:35 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:47 -!- carbocation [~carbocati@li44-77.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 05:29:02 well i am heading off to sleep, thanks for the help/advice/insight 05:29:12 and i can do math better less fatigued :) 05:29:18 good night 05:29:41 -!- DoctorDude [~Jake@144.26.128.58] has left #lisp 05:30:03 good morning! 05:30:10 :) 05:30:16 good afternoon 05:32:08 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 05:32:50 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:33:13 -!- bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:33:39 mmaul [~user@174.109.84.82] has joined #lisp 05:34:47 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:10 -!- garjola [~yaaic@165.202.68.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 05:39:26 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Quit: BBIAB] 05:41:48 -!- mmaul [~user@174.109.84.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:42:43 PuercoPo` [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 05:43:15 -!- PuercoPo` is now known as PuercoPop 05:50:40 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:50:46 -!- nicdev`` is now known as nicdev 05:54:30 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 05:56:23 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Client Quit] 05:56:34 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 05:57:22 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 06:01:30 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 06:02:28 liweinan [~liweinan@222.130.232.241] has joined #lisp 06:03:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.170.52] has joined #lisp 06:05:02 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:07:10 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:07:15 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:08:58 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:09:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:10:38 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:11:24 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 06:11:55 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:14:17 -!- biscarch [~chris@108-83-17-79.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:16:06 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:16:34 carlo5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:30 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:18:12 browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.225] has joined #lisp 06:19:50 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 06:19:52 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:21:09 -!- carlo5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:24:19 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:44 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:30:13 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 06:30:13 -!- Jubb [~ghost@96.241.84.33] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:32:19 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:33:43 jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:58 bniels [~niels@p4FD6DCD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:36 jack_rabbit [~kyle@98.253.60.75] has joined #lisp 06:40:57 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 06:42:55 jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:43:57 carlo5 [~510carlos@c-71-198-252-62.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:00 -!- mritz [~textual@70.112.1.179] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:44:05 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:51:10 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 06:52:44 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 06:54:40 rindolf [~shlomi@bzq-79-180-215-178.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:05 Hi all. Does http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ support building with lib64gc-devel-7.3-0.alpha4git.1.mga3 ? 06:55:33 that's not really a good question for #lisp 06:56:15 "does $obscurecompiler1 compile with $obscurecompiler2?" 06:56:36 stassats: well, I'm getting some errors - I can paste them. 06:56:42 rindolf: try #ecl ? 06:56:44 rather "does $obscurecompiler1 compile with $alhpaversionofobscuregc" 06:56:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:56:55 sw2wolf: OK. 06:57:02 rindolf: please, don't paste them 06:57:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:57:14 nobody will be able to help you here 06:57:16 stassats: I don't mean flood. 06:57:29 There's no one on #ecl . 06:57:38 rindolf: use the mailing list 06:57:52 why the hell do you want to build it with an alpha version of gc? 06:58:13 rindolf: as a guess, if it does not build with the library version that you have, it does not support it. but ecl is well maintained, so you'll get a better answer when asking the maintainers. 06:59:07 H4ns: OK. 06:59:10 -!- shifty [~user@114-198-33-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:19 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:03:09 -!- sw2wolf [~czsq888@171.216.155.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:03:54 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:05:47 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 07:06:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-105-19.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:06:48 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@98.253.60.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:51 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:10:29 teggi_ [~teggi@123.21.159.158] has joined #lisp 07:10:50 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 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250 seconds] 09:26:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:28:03 samrat [~samrat@49.244.143.150] has joined #lisp 09:33:29 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:33:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:34:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:35:36 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:36:25 -!- browndawg [~browndawg@117.201.176.225] has left #lisp 09:37:38 cornihilio [~cornihili@softbank126127243122.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:02 why is my definition of start-simulator causing me to get "malformed plist, odd number of elements"? code: https://gist.github.com/4193889 09:39:46 cornihilio: defclass start-simulator? 09:39:56 cornihilio: you propably meant defun, not defclass 09:40:28 H4ns: thank you, I am a fool :( 09:40:29 cornihilio: you should name you global sim-conf variable *sim-conf* and use defvar to declare it special. 09:40:37 cornihilio: no worries. 09:43:27 H4ns: thanks for the advice! 09:44:03 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-172-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 09:44:24 segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-172-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:49:08 zodiac1111 [~zodiac111@183.128.234.201] has joined #lisp 09:49:10 bitonic [~user@94.9.167.73] has joined #lisp 09:49:13 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:49:13 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:49:31 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:53:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:53:28 -!- mnb [~user@190.138.36.219] has left #lisp 09:53:34 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:55:19 where could I find good examples of lisp 'configuration' files? 09:55:44 What do you mean? 09:56:32 I think I might be pretending there is more to this than I think... but I basically just want a settings file where variables are declared, no functions/packages/namespaces or anything really. 09:56:49 basically a list of symbol names and associated filepaths 09:57:38 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:57:38 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:58 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:58:00 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:58:52 -!- shwouchk [~kosta@unaffiliated/shwouchk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:59:39 err I think I figured it out; sorry 09:59:59 -!- mikaelj [~tic@83.248.1.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:03:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:29 -!- bitonic 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[~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 17:02:29 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:40 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 17:05:18 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:05:51 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.89.73] has joined #lisp 17:07:41 wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-148-122.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:34 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:48 whats the ftype of a function that may take an arbitrary number of argumnts of type t? 17:09:19 &rest t. 17:09:33 -!- bniels [~niels@p4FD6DCD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 17:09:34 thanks 17:11:49 -!- cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:56 but does that only include functions with arbitrary length argument lists or also functions with fixed length argument list of arbitrary length? 17:15:24 er? 17:15:28 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:16:11 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:16:24 well is (lambda (a b c) ...) a member of the set of functions of type (function (&rest t) t) 17:17:54 function types are used for declaration, not discrimination 17:18:05 (that is, what matters is the use of a function, not any kind of intrinsic type) 17:18:12 tl;dr version: function types are confusing 17:18:23 if wou are wondering waht I need to know this for, I am writing a paper and I need to express (function (*) (function (real) real)) 17:18:34 that doesn't help 17:18:46 what do you really need to know this for? 17:19:12 I am considerung using a subset the TYPEPEC languge as part of my U-Language 17:19:14 no really 17:19:25 A paper for university 17:19:52 you're not winning many clarity points with this University lecturer 17:20:06 If you're trying to discuss the meaning or usage of functions, there are better type languages than CL. 17:20:20 look, if it helps, in CL pretend that every single function object has type 'function (and no other type) 17:20:31 any suggestions? 17:20:42 as pkhuong says, if you are interested in function types in contexts that aren't specifically CL, use something that isn't inherently contradictory 17:21:55 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 17:21:56 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.49.236] has joined #lisp 17:22:17 The thing is my paper is based on a CL program, and that programs design is heavily based on a set of functions which is: functions that take ANY arguments and return a function of type (function (real) real) 17:22:36 I am looking for a way to express that, I considered the typespec notation 17:22:46 wakeup: Do you have another representation of the model? 17:23:08 easye: no 17:23:32 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:23:46 agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:52 (function * (values (function (real) (values real &optional)) &optional)). As enlightening as a burnt lightbulb. 17:24:10 -!- qNemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:24:43 (if anyone cares its a toolkit for sound/waveform generation) 17:24:52 wakeup: It always helps for me to pick a second formalism of something I am working on. Having alternate syntax/semantics always helps to explore what I really want. 17:25:49 pkhuong: It works o.O 17:26:05 easye: I first tried to express it mathematically: f: x* -> (real -> real), but whats X? 17:26:36 one quarter of a terrible beer 17:26:46 pkhuong: whats the optional for? 17:26:49 wakeup: T, the top type. 17:27:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:27:28 pkhuong: Why not (function * (function (real) real))? 17:27:33 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:27:55 *naryl* bets it's a frequently asked question 17:28:05 :D 17:28:33 Can anyone point me to the ANSI CL page about * in typespecs? 17:28:42 because a (function * type) is a function that returns a value of type TYPE, and any number of multiple return values of type T. 17:29:03 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:29:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.189.113] has joined #lisp 17:29:46 I'd rather not think about * in typespecs. 17:30:44 wait 17:31:15 "a value of type TYPE, and any number of multiple..." really? 17:31:26 why thats weird? 17:31:43 because CL function types describe usage. 17:32:24 wakeup: Sorry, not ANSI CL. 17:32:27 > The unspecified subsidiary items are indicated by writing *. 17:32:29 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/04_bc.htm 17:32:51 And what about (function * (values type)) 17:33:16 is that equivalent to f: * -> type 17:33:27 naryl: still, thanks 17:33:31 It's a promise from the programmer to the implementation that they will only use the function in that manner, and that, when they do (and the function returns), the return values will be of the given type. 17:33:57 wakeup: same. 17:35:06 naryl: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/dreeves/lispdoc/subsecti/typespec.htm samepage basically 17:35:22 For added fun, return value types are most precisely described when the (values ...) form containts lambda keywords. In that case, it is interpreted as argument lists for a function type. The return values are guaranteed to be acceptable as arguments when calling a function of that second type via multiple-value-call. 17:36:34 circular definition yay? :) 17:36:38 Return values are specified in terms of the set of functions that accept them. 17:37:29 Not circular, helixical. Return values only need function types with arguments but arbitrary return values to be defined. 17:38:24 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:02 Well thanks 17:39:21 I think (function * real) does suffice 17:41:24 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:41:44 Just out of curiosity, I first googled for a set of everything. Like the inverse of Ø 17:41:59 didnt find anyhing, is there something? 17:42:10 (I know OT, sorry) 17:42:29 fisxoj [~fisxoj@24.12.190.29] has joined #lisp 17:42:37 That way lies paradoxes. 17:45:28 yacks [~yacks@180.151.36.171] has joined #lisp 17:45:35 Paradoxes deserve names too ;) 17:47:23 carlo5 [~510carlos@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 17:47:36 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.159.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:06 E 17:48:12 or \mathcal{E} 17:48:14 or U 17:49:48 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:51:58 cool 17:52:00 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:52:11 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:52:43 brown [user@nat/google/x-izxatpetzqgijjng] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 -!- lukego [~lukego@188.154.13.193] has quit [Quit: lukego] 17:53:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:53:07 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:53:07 -!- 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[~stat@dslb-094-218-233-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:48 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-4-96.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:03 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 18:14:09 arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:03 hello, can somebody knowledgeable point me to how to access the contents of a C array from cffi? or maybe give me a short description. 18:16:33 lmgtfy 18:16:37 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/cffi-manual.html#mem_002daref 18:17:56 well I googled myself, just wasnt successful finding that use case mentioned. 18:19:16 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.133.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:57 arrk13: a C array is nothing but a pointer to the start of some memory. you want to access the memory at ptr+offset for a certain type. mem-aref does this. 18:20:13 or mem-ref if you calculate the typesize/offset yourself, iirc 18:20:42 lufu [~user@5.254.133.84] has joined #lisp 18:21:19 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:29 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:21:39 my problem is how to address the C array in the first place? 18:22:46 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 18:23:01 you said "access the contents" so presumably it's already made somewhere, and you need to find it .. how would you do this in C? 18:23:02 arrk13: you'll get some sort of pointer-like object from any foreign function you call 18:23:05 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:11 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:31 dlowe: in a function i kinda understand it, but the array is not in a function, it is a global variable. 18:23:44 or, possibly, an extern, assuming it's not a "fake-extern" macro or similar 18:23:45 arrk13: that's a symbol lookup using FFI 18:23:46 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:58 -!- tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has left #lisp 18:24:32 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 18:24:33 oGMo: yes, it is an extern. 18:24:34 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1192-223.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:26:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:26:19 dlowe, how would that symbol lookup work? 18:26:43 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-9-232.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:27:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:27:05 (cffi:foreign-symbol-pointer "symbol-name") .. this is really not complicated heh 18:27:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:27:55 bitonic [~user@dyn1192-223.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 well it is complicated enough if you've not done much with cffi, and I havent. if i figured it out myself i wouldnt ask embarassing questions here. 18:28:57 ok,i'll try that out. 18:31:16 you might find a cffi wrapper for a library you're familiar with and have it on hand to read .. i'd recommend something but it's more dependent on you being familiar with said library 18:31:33 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 18:35:22 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 18:36:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:01 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:37:11 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:42:56 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 18:45:34 -!- ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:45 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-9-232.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 18:49:56 jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has joined #lisp 18:51:52 Bike [~Glossina@207-224-23-226.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:12 k0001 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19:44:20 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:46:07 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:47:30 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:48:07 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 19:53:21 bind [~bind@212.178.116.154] has joined #lisp 19:53:43 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:39 lucky__ [~lucky@cri75-4-78-192-205-120.fbxo.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:42 Hi 19:55:33 I want to sum items of a list is it possible ? 19:56:00 lucky__: yes. 19:56:07 lucky__: yes. it is a very basic thing. what book do you use to learn lisp? 19:56:23 I use the lesson of my teacher 19:56:45 lucky__: is your teacher using common lisp or scheme? 19:56:52 common lisp 19:57:27 lucky__: are you supposed to write a function that sums items of a list using recursion, or do you just need to do it? 19:57:46 by recursion I know how to do 19:58:15 but 19:58:27 I want to learn another way 19:58:28 lucky__: you probably just want (reduce '+ the-list) 19:58:55 (apply '+ the-list) can also work 19:58:55 (reduce #'+ the-list) 19:59:18 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59:18 jasom: do you lexically redefine + often? ;) 19:59:25 maybe lucky__ will get more points with (+ (elt list 1) (elt list 2) (elt list 3) (elt list 4) (elt list 5)) 19:59:52 or (loop for num in the-list summing num) 20:00:58 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host109-151-246-226.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:02:47 *jasom* has always liked (sum the-list) ;Implementation of sum is left up to the reader 20:02:52 Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has joined #lisp 20:03:23 *jasom* got really bad grades in college doing that though 20:08:23 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:23 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:09:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:09:59 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@80-95-90-157.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 20:09:59 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 20:09:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@80-95-90-157.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:09:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:11:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:11:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@80-95-90-157.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 20:11:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@80-95-90-157.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:11:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:11:25 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:12:50 -!- arrk13 [~arrakis24@dslb-178-006-216-180.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 20:14:30 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:15:08 can someone recommend a Bison almost-equivalent? CL-YACC seems to not work with the grammar A -> B ; B -> B x | epsilon 20:16:48 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-20-105.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:18:03 -!- kmels [~kmels@93.132.249.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@173.228.44.92] has joined #lisp 20:23:40 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 20:25:47 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732f82.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:58 -!- bind [~bind@212.178.116.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:22 Qworkescence: it's been a while since I used bison, but is that even LALR(1)? 20:26:47 dlowe: you cannot redefine lexically cl:+, so often, no, but it may be com.informatimago.common-lisp.invoice.invoice::+ and this one could be redefined lexically. 20:26:56 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 20:27:16 jasom: it's regular. 20:27:32 jasom: obviously, (sum the-list) is the best solution. 20:27:50 Perhaps I should convert to a teacher? 20:27:55 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.133.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:13 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:32 jasom, actually all I think I want is LALR(1) 20:28:33 pkhuong: right, duh. It's regular so clearly LALR can do it. I am struggling to remember which LR(1) grammars LALR(1) can't parse 20:28:50 Qworkescence: there's Zebu, and cl-lalr but they'll be the same as cl-yacc AFAIK. cl-lalr is probably the most advanced. 20:29:20 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:29:22 Qworkescence: otherwise you may want to try packrat or parser combinators. (or if you're willing to restructure your grammar, my own simple RDP). 20:29:25 pjb, "cl-lalr"? 20:29:35 there is FUCC also 20:30:49 Qworkescence: ok, I misremembered. There's an old LALR, but cl-yacc is the most advanded in its category. http://www.cliki.net/parser%20generator 20:31:12 Oh, unfortunately, I don't care how advanced it is if it doesn't work. 20:31:43 Qworkescence: what happens if you remove the left recursion? 20:32:19 pkhuong, So it is just A -> B ; B -> x | eps ? It seems to work then. 20:32:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:32:45 no. B -> x B | eps. 20:32:47 Right recursion seems to work too 20:32:50 Qworkescence: Somewhere I have the bison boilerplate runtime code translated to Common Lisp. 20:33:03 -!- Guest85108 is now known as reb 20:33:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:33:41 normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-67-64-66-5.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:50 (I am willing to admit I made a mistake if my original grammar is not LALR(1); I think it is.) 20:34:08 ... and I think patches to bison so it can output the CL code. But it's for an old bison version. 20:34:29 (here is the CL-YACC if anyone is interested: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134036 ) 20:34:39 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-106-100.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:24 pjb: better a top-down parser? 20:37:04 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:37:29 pnpuff: I like recursive descent (top-down) parser better indeed. They're simplier. See: http://cliki.net/rdp 20:38:04 the grammar I have is around 500 lines 20:39:41 I like mutually recursive functions/procedures :) 20:40:14 Qworkescence: in general it's rather easy to transform a grammar to make it acceptable by a RDP. 20:40:25 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 20:40:51 pnpuff: you don't always get to define the language yourself. 20:41:29 -!- emacs-dw` [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:38 emacs-dw` [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:04 bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:42:16 robot-beethoven [~user@24.118.142.0] has joined #lisp 20:42:16 There must be tools in some toolbox to transform grammars thusly. Perhaps in Grosch's Compiler Construction Toolbox, IIRC. 20:42:17 pkhuong: i use acl2 mainly. 20:42:25 (now) 20:44:43 pnpuff: what do you use it for? 20:45:08 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:45:33 pnpuff: ok. That's not what a language is, when discussing formal grammars. 20:45:37 jasom: to rock around the clock. 20:46:16 recursive descent, top down parser? hrm ... https://github.com/drewc/smug/blob/master/smug.org 20:46:38 :D 20:47:10 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:13 drewc: Thanks for that, btw, I use it from time to time 20:47:16 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1192-223.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:47:41 drewc: it was really nice how I could change my parsing of something easily based on runtime/database data. 20:47:44 sykopomp: I bet you will be glad to know that the new release of smug is almost done ... based on proper monad-transformers like the one in the paper that I 'copied' 20:48:07 jasom: I am glad it is of use :) 20:49:44 drewc: and the separate packages with shadowed symbols? 20:50:15 yup, the SMUG package will not (:use :cl) 20:50:42 lovely 20:51:21 actually .. heh ... today I might put my 'monads.org' online, becase the test for use of monads is 95% of the smug parser, done simply for testing ... 20:52:36 (defpackage test-parser (:use) (:import-from :interface/monad ...) (:export #:let* #:or #:and) ... ) etc 20:53:31 and, I do need a first blog post and a reason to get my website online properly regardless ... 20:53:37 doomlord [~doomlod@109.151.246.226] has joined #lisp 20:53:39 monday monday 20:53:55 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 20:55:04 -!- emacs-dw` [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:56:36 tin.org 20:56:44 wh00ps .. wrong buffer 20:58:28 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@98.253.60.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:59:05 wicked_shell [~wicked_sh@gateway/tor-sasl/wickedshell/x-12495307] has joined #lisp 21:01:24 after a lot of research about what new language to learn i decided to go with lisp, but can't decide whether SBCL or Clisp - any ideas/articles? 21:01:35 wicked_shell: use sbcl 21:01:49 im on linux, does it make any diff? 21:01:52 wicked_shell: sbcl, but also get emacs/slime setup 21:02:06 wicked_shell: use ccl 21:02:17 wicked_shell: http://www.mohiji.org/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-linux/ 21:02:20 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-210-0-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 21:02:21 thats the thing, i know vim ) 21:02:32 learn emacs 21:02:43 slimv is great too 21:02:45 wicked_shell: if you decided you want to learn common lisp, you also want to learn emacs. 21:02:45 wicked_shell: you can either use slimv or evil-mode for emacs 21:02:46 I use it myself 21:02:52 aw cmon ^^ 21:03:09 PuffTheMagic_ [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqmgmhowwwchxljf] has joined #lisp 21:03:17 is there a big functional diff between slimv and emacs implemetations? 21:03:36 slimv is basically just slime for vim, they're pretty similar 21:03:41 wicked_shell: I use vim for everything except lisp development, for which I use emacs with a vim emulation layer; slime is the IDE of all the open-source lisps. 21:04:01 ah thx for the clarification 21:04:09 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mpjzhdyozylaaycg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:15 sbcl is pretty great. 21:04:17 -!- PuffTheMagic_ is now known as PuffTheMagic 21:05:37 peteriserins_ [~Peteris@84.237.177.36] has joined #lisp 21:05:39 rgc [~user@79.156.162.183] has joined #lisp 21:05:42 so sbcl follows the ansi standard? any deviations? btw i want to use lisp as independant as possible from other languages 21:05:54 wicked_shell: it doesn't make a difference, all CL implementations implement the CL standard, so to learn the CL language, you can use any of them. 21:06:05 writing frameworks as whole and so on 21:06:25 wicked_shell: however, for a beginner, clisp provides a better debugger, and is faster to execute your code (it doesn't lose time compiling it). 21:06:31 sorry for the obvious trivia 21:06:31 wicked_shell: I used vim as my editor for 16 years ... then I started with CL about 9 years ago... and now use emacs for almost everything save for editing text files as root on my servers 21:06:41 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 21:06:47 read so much about it that cant figure stuff out lol 21:07:04 wicked_shell: all lisps have extensions, but for the most part deviations from the standard are considered bugs in the big implementations (clisp, sbcl, ccl, cmucl) 21:07:06 wicked_shell: sbcl loses a lot of time compiling your code (but then it runs it very quickly, which as a beginner is a useless feature, since you'll be making a lot of bugs and it will just stop into the debugger as fast in clisp than in sbcl). 21:07:44 but there is an option to compile stuff if i need in sbcl right> 21:07:48 wicked_shell: or, you can choose ccl which has a compiler that is faster than sbcl, but produce code that is slower, so a middle ground if you will, but it's lacking some features such as the stepper CL:STEP. 21:08:03 -!- peteriserins [~Peteris@84.237.177.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:03 -!- peteriserins_ is now known as peteriserins 21:08:12 also how does this macro/coding while running feature differ? 21:08:18 wicked_shell: no. In sbcl the option is NOT to compile stuff: there's now the option of activating an interpreter in sbcl, instead of compiling everything. 21:08:30 wicked_shell: pick any implementation, use any editor, because learning Lisp is the first step regardless. Then, SBCL + SLIME + Emacs... because I said so ;) 21:08:45 lol 21:08:48 wicked_shell: my advice is to use clisp to learn and to develop your programs later, and to use sbcl to compile it when it's done. 21:08:51 i'll learn it anyway 21:09:06 hmm 21:09:32 i think i'll try that, thx all for the hints 21:09:35 nuff theory ^^ 21:09:39 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:09:41 *applause* 21:09:47 Furthermore, for now sbcl is a little weak on MS-Windows (it's worked on as we speak). If you want to distribute your programs on all platforms, clisp or ccl may be better., 21:10:03 wicked_shell: have a look at http://cliki.net/ 21:10:15 notably http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started 21:11:09 wicked_shell: for the most part I find that porting between implementations is pretty painliness, but performance-critical regions may need to be hand-tuned to the implementation. 21:11:16 pjb: i dont care much about windows/desktop 21:11:30 im working in highload 21:11:52 slow compilers aren't critical too 21:12:44 wicked_shell: every now and then you find that there is a library that doesn't work on the implementation you are porting to, but that is less of an issue these days (I blame Xach for the improvement) 21:13:01 Ralt [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:13:10 hehe 21:13:24 Joreji [~thomas@93-186.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:24 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732f82.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:13:31 i am kinda expecting the worse, like writing libraries myself 21:13:53 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732f82.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:58 but the possibilities, which i am currently not even understanding to full, are worth it 21:14:19 wicked_shell: just make sure you write your own general purpose utility library; we don't have enough of those 21:14:40 like checking parameters and stuff? 21:14:51 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:14:54 wicked_shell: was a joke: http://www.cliki.net/Utilities 21:14:59 lol 21:15:04 i wondered 21:15:12 wicked_shell: well, slow compilers are critical when you're compiling every minutes, during development. 21:15:16 rofl 21:15:23 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:24 wicked_shell: sbcl compiles everything! 21:15:42 When you type (+ 1 2) at the REPL, it runs the compiler on (lambda () (+ 1 2)) and calls the compiled function! 21:16:06 (ok, it's not as bad as it sounds, but still). 21:16:15 francogrex [~user@109.130.12.200] has joined #lisp 21:16:19 no, it is not bad at all 21:16:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:16:34 it doesn't sound bad to me at all ... 21:16:39 pjb: I often just recompile a single function and that's pretty fast 21:16:43 you rarely recompile so many files that compiler speed really matters, unless you are running big test suites 21:16:53 (which require a build from scratch) 21:17:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:17:06 The difference is that since all the code you run on sbcl is compiled, it lose information that would be useful for debugging. For example, try this in sbcl and cry: http://paste.lisp.org/display/134027 21:17:06 you mean WHILE running big test suites on the code? 21:17:12 even javascript is a compiled language today. compiled vs. interpreted is pretty much meaningless these days. 21:17:20 because profiling/test suites are priority 21:17:29 actually (+ 1 2) is one of the few things sbcl *doesn't* invoke the compiler for. :) 21:17:36 :-) 21:17:47 for simple function calls, it does just call the function directly. 21:17:56 wicked_shell: no, i am talking about test suites that require you to do a full rebuild. 21:18:11 wicked_shell: you should do what you said you want to do: get coding. 21:18:31 Exactly. 21:18:41 yeah right, my mindset still resists the logic, to make any sense of discussing it further 21:18:50 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-172-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv-] 21:19:10 wicked_shell: just go to http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started 21:19:11 i'll start as pjb suggested and learn sbcl in addition a bit later 21:20:12 also which utility library should i use? -,- 21:20:25 All of them! :-) 21:20:40 wicked_shell: get quicklisp and use them. http://www.quiclisp.org/ 21:20:43 ok and if i like to add stuff? 21:20:43 wicked_shell: get quicklisp and use them. http://www.quicklisp.org/ 21:20:47 H4ns: I have a test suite for a lisp app that starts with "create a VM" ... and finally when SBCL is installed and the git repo is cloned, take a long time to compile everything to run the 'standard' FivaAM tests... ugh. 21:20:53 (ql:quickload :stuff-to-add) 21:21:16 for example: (ql:quickload :com.informatimago.common-lisp) to get my libraries (AGPL3) ;-) 21:21:24 drewc: sb-eval? 21:21:36 drewc: i have such a test suite, too, but jenkins runs it for me 21:22:09 drewc: what vm tech are you using/scale? 21:22:29 wicked_shell: g e t c o d i n g :D 21:22:58 H4ns: im just waiting for all the stuff to download/install =) 21:23:05 well, as luck would have it, I only have to run that suite one a month or so... at this point it is just an 'ugh' rather than an 'owww' 21:23:32 any good emacs cheatsheets for lisp devel ? 21:23:41 mind as well learn it the right way 21:24:33 wicked_shell: http://home.in.tum.de/~lehmanna/download/Slime%20Cheat%20Sheet.pdf 21:25:19 wicked_shell: this one's even better: http://www.pchristensen.com/slimecommands.pdf 21:25:20 thx 21:25:28 also M-x slime-cheat-sheet 21:26:24 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:41 wicked_shell: I have Xen on all our old production servers, and these days have switched to KVM and moving all the xen using clients over to kvm. I used to use UML. 21:29:37 drewc: nice, same here mostly 21:29:47 im running a xen cluster at home for fun =) 21:29:51 drewc: too bad, I was considering raw SBCL/Xen for a while. 21:30:36 everybody lobbies kvm but the performance win is overrated 21:30:44 pkhuong: how does that work? 21:30:45 if there is any 21:30:48 and off topic, too. 21:30:54 yeah sry 21:30:59 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host80.186-109-101.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:31:08 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:31:12 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 21:31:20 anyone using arch ? what slime package should i choose? 21:31:33 you can get slime from quicklisp 21:31:39 wicked_shell: none. use quicklisp to install quicklisp-slime-helper 21:31:54 ah ok 21:32:18 how can I load a local project into another? I have two projects that I can load with quicklisp, but no idea how to use one in the other... 21:32:21 also. is there an expository blog post or something on load-time-value? I think I get what it does but it's weird enough that I'd like to be more sure. 21:32:58 wicked_shell: You'll know when you need a utility library. Only two are worth mentioning *before* you get coding IMO :) 21:33:15 bitonic [~user@dyn1192-223.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:33:24 im just wondering - the quicklisp gets shipped in "lispbox" in aur 21:33:34 with slime and emacs seemingly 21:33:38 e.g. need logging - google "common lisp log" or smth 21:33:40 wicked_shell: don't install anything for lisp through the aur 21:33:40 so 21:33:42 except maybe CCL 21:34:00 uh 21:34:10 ehu: it's actually relatively easy to get a simple OS going on top of xen/x86-64. The mmap/mprotect tricks map fairly closely to regular (hardware or xen) MMU operations. 21:34:24 ok now what do i need besides emacs, clisp and sbcl? 21:34:32 from extra 21:34:38 nothing 21:34:44 k 21:34:55 you're all set. Grab quicklisp and use that to install quicklisp-slime-helper 21:35:03 wicked_shell: First: http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/draft/alexandria.html 21:35:06 and you're set to start hacking CL. :) 21:35:15 I've already implemented around half of it before reading this page. :) 21:35:23 pkhuong: and you want to implement your own filesystem when you get that running? (In CL of course) 21:35:25 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-233-122.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:35 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@unaffiliated/Buglouse] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:40 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-67-64-66-5.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [] 21:35:56 if you want to grab alexandria (or anything else), just (ql:quickload 'alexandria) after setting up quicklisp, in a lisp shell. 21:35:56 And... the second is a bit tricky so make yourself comfortable with CL first :) 21:36:02 ehu: naw, just produce a single image and talk to the network. 21:36:18 sykopomp: where do i get quicklisp now, seem not to be in repo? 21:36:21 oh. right. that sounds better. 21:36:40 wicked_shell: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 21:36:43 pkhuong: well, for that I would look back into Xen.. I still have it on 4 servers after all :) 21:37:10 thx 21:37:17 wicked_shell: download it directly from the site. Quicklisp is meant to be installed at the user level. 21:37:27 ehu: mostly, because I'm wondering how much of a difference it would be VS POSIX mprotect/mmap. With the fancy HW support for MMU virtualisation, it might work out better. 21:38:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.162.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:15 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:14 likely, yea. would probably be more efficient. isn't the result very much like movitz? 21:41:19 well, except that it'd be SBCL, and that it's easier (and more deployment-friendly) to target Xen than bare hardware. 21:42:18 AeroNotix [~xeno@aafu145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:42:47 iterating over i and j, (count-if (lambda (x) (<= i x j)) data) is 10 times faster if the data list is sorted #'< , I didn't know that ! 21:43:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.189.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:17 Can I *step* through a function using sbcl/slime? TRACE doesn't get into the internals. 21:43:29 carlo5 [~510carlos@209.49.100.67] has joined #lisp 21:43:36 -!- morphling [~stefan@77.0.62.157] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:43:39 (see what the inner forms return and such) 21:43:44 you can use the break function, although that's not exactly it, it's quite nice already 21:43:49 antoszka: you can use (step ..) 21:43:53 ah. 21:44:09 just set the appropriate debugging level 21:44:32 OK, thanks, will investigate that. 21:44:32 I think you meant step *into* a function 21:44:33 antoszka: with high-enough debug (3, maybe 2), you can use the stepper. But internals aren't compiled at high debug level... 21:45:41 how can I specify a dependency in an asd file with an absolute path? 21:48:26 -!- tfshfz [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 21:49:24 segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-172-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:09 pkhuong: Is it possible to recompile all the functions in my buffer with debug temporarily set to three or do I have to add the DECLARE clauses manually to all the functions i'm interested in stepping into? 21:50:12 -!- myx [~myx@pppoe-196-222-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:50:48 antoszka: sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 21:51:33 cool, thx 21:52:08 Ralt: systems don't have paths. And components representing files should probably not be given with absolute paths (I wonder if it's even possible). 21:52:19 Ralt: So what do you really want to do? 21:52:31 I have a project that I want to use in another 21:52:55 That project must have a asd file too! 21:52:59 I have something like `depends-on ("other-project")` in the second project 21:53:09 yeah, both have an asd file 21:53:26 Put them both in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ or put there symlinks to their directories, and then (ql:quickload :second-project) 21:53:55 the ql:quickload works for both already, but I'll try putting them in local-projects 21:54:02 -!- segv- [~mb@dslb-188-102-172-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:15 alright, thanks pjb for your suggestion, putting them in local-projects makes everything work out nicely :) 21:55:34 exu0 [~u@dslb-178-002-125-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:11 and now good night :-) 21:58:07 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:20 there is a function who approximate a real number upper ? 21:58:38 ghu43f [~vijay@64.134.172.27] has joined #lisp 21:58:44 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.83] has joined #lisp 21:59:09 I mean a function which is like round 21:59:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:59:58 lucky__: ceiling? 22:00:42 clhs round 22:00:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm 22:00:53 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:00:56 thanks 22:00:59 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:28 (really, ceiling) 22:01:57 ok i have slime and emacs with sbcl, how can i add clisp to work out of emacs too? 22:02:26 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.12.200] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:02:33 clisp is meant to be used by itself from the shell. 22:02:34 in what site can I search common lisp functions ? 22:02:42 wicked_shell: C-u M-x slime RET clisp RET ? 22:02:50 I mean there is something like a unix man 22:03:02 lucky__: l1sp.org 22:03:04 lucky__: l1sp.org/cl/round 22:03:30 daimrod: wouldn't that overwrite sbcl? 22:03:53 lucky__: you could also quickload clhs and browse clhs from emacs. 22:03:56 google.ca/?q=clhs+round 22:04:19 wicked_shell: no, it'll start another inferior-lisp. 22:04:21 http://duckduckgo.com/q=!lisp+round too 22:04:39 what is clhs ? 22:04:39 add a ? after the / 22:04:48 common lisp hyperspec 22:04:57 wicked_shell: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Multiple-Lisps.html ? 22:05:01 lucky__: did you click on the link above? To Lispworks.com? 22:05:06 ues 22:05:07 daimrod: is there a way to add it to menu? 22:05:08 yes 22:05:15 I add to my bookmarks 22:05:20 -!- exu0 is now known as exu0_ 22:05:29 it's my favourite site now :D 22:05:40 thx 22:06:39 > (round ) C-c d h 22:07:38 -!- exu0_ is now known as exu0 22:08:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:08:50 and of course, /msg specbot help 22:09:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:10:35 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aafu145.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:11:29 -!- bind [~bind@5ED5B26C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:18 how can I set my lisp/slime up for TDD? (e.g: every time I hit C-c C-c, compile the function and run my unit tests... or, maybe even every time I save my file) 22:14:42 it's pretty easy to switch to the repl and rerun a previous expression (for example, (run-tests)) 22:15:33 or, for that matter, make a elisp function that runs the tests via slime, and bind that to a C-c key. 22:15:59 Tordek: alternately, you could use emacs hooks to send something to swank specific to your project. 22:16:03 yeah 22:16:06 or: I can answer that question about 1000 ways. 22:17:21 I see... 22:17:56 -!- exu0 [~u@dslb-178-002-125-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 22:18:52 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:19:44 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:45 fisxoj [~fisxoj@24.12.190.29] has joined #lisp 22:24:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:24:58 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:24:59 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.82] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:25:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:27:02 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.82] has joined #lisp 22:28:45 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.7.60] has joined #lisp 22:31:03 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:31:19 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:32:41 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.32.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:37 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 22:36:42 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:36:46 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:26 PCChris [~PCChris@199.74.100.93] has joined #lisp 22:37:43 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 22:40:02 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:43:28 jack_rabbit [~kyle@98.253.60.75] has joined #lisp 22:43:58 is there a way i can pass arguments from bash to a lisp program? 22:44:39 cdidd [~cdidd@128-69-225-76.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:44:44 wicked_shell: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier/software/lisp/clon.php 22:45:09 google translate never works if you need it 22:46:06 ah got it thx 22:47:40 -!- wakeup [~max@xdsl-89-0-148-122.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:49:50 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f7ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:31 what's the best way to get the last character of a string? 22:52:55 (cl:why-am-i-doing-this *string*) 22:53:30 (char string (1- (length string)))? 22:53:32 or, alternately, (alexandria:last-elt *string*) 22:54:55 Bike: thanks! 22:56:18 (just doing a throw-away implementation of pkcs7) 22:56:42 (loop for c across "string" finally (return c)) <--- not the best way at all ... 22:57:23 drewc: that's... actually that's kinda neat. 22:57:57 (first (nreverse (coerce "string" 'list))) 22:58:20 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 22:58:31 haha 22:58:36 34418875096  is this some magic number in sbcl? I'm running 1.1.2 currently and a NIL in my code seems to internally turn itself into this number and break my (simple) code. 22:59:09 funnily enough, when I do some PRINT/FORMAT debugging, suddently it starts working again 22:59:14 and NIL is NIL 22:59:46 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 23:01:09 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:01:40 (funcall (apply #'compose #'car (loop repeat (1- (length *string*)) collect #'cdr)) (coerce *string* 'list)) perhaps 23:01:50 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.125] has joined #lisp 23:02:00 maybe that's not fun enough 23:03:09 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@167.68.114.6] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 23:03:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:27 (let ((input "string")) (aref (make-array 1 :displaced-to input :displaced-index-offset (- (length input) 1) :element-type (array-element-type input)) 0)) 23:07:19 kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has joined #lisp 23:08:19 BlueMint [~Lachlan@c122-108-139-60.mirnd3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:08:23 -!- BlueMint [~Lachlan@c122-108-139-60.mirnd3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #lisp 23:09:42 antoszka: (defpackage :foo (:use)) (in-package :foo) (cl:defvar nil 34418875096) ... NIL is now 34418875096 is that package! 23:10:12 drewc: well, yes but that's obviously not the case 23:10:18 -!- _tca [~user@207.91.25.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:21 *drewc* is still going on about not best ways to implement things and apologizes 23:10:30 antoszka: paste? 23:10:57 antoszka: my first thought is that some unsafe code is having type problems 23:11:02 and yes, that was my next suggestion , paste? 23:11:26 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732f82.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:11:28 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:11:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-38-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:40 and that is my thought as well ... so I will let Bike take care of things from here on in 23:11:55 Yeah, just trying to isolate the problem. 23:11:59 one moment: 23:12:00 -!- Bike is now known as Bike`afk 23:12:09 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:13:09 -!- sellout [~Adium@98.245.92.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:13:58 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:07 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:15:58 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:16:47 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 23:16:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/134039 (traces of PCL's database there :)) 23:17:11 -!- mritz [~textual@97.65.251.170] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:17:32 also, when I uncomment the second-clause spliced-items debugging prints, I get: 23:18:03 Unhandled memory fault at #x0. [Condition of type SB-SYS:MEMORY-FAULT-ERROR] 23:18:13 (this time, previously I got that number instead of NIL) 23:19:22 this code worked for about two years, so I suspect the problem might be related to upgrading to sbcl-1.1.{1,2} recently 23:19:34 though this is really basic stuff 23:21:17 -!- lucky__ [~lucky@cri75-4-78-192-205-120.fbxo.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:21:52 kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732f82.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:09 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:16 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:23:17 -!- peteriserins [~Peteris@84.237.177.36] has quit [Quit: peteriserins] 23:23:38 peteriserins [~Peteris@84.237.177.36] has joined #lisp 23:24:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-204-49.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:27:21 any lispers in Wien these days? I'll be visiting on the 9th-11th... 23:27:56 -!- peteriserins [~Peteris@84.237.177.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:28:39 -!- agumonkey [~agu@27.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:28:48 *attila_lendvai* realizes that he should as in a more reasonable time in that timezone... :) 23:29:12 antoszka: and that fails when using a fresh 1.1.2 binary with nothing loaded, at the REPL, replacing the undefined fn with IDENTITY? 23:29:17 -!- Bike`afk is now known as Bike 23:29:42 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@199.74.100.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:24 *attila_lendvai* pokes antifuchs nevertheless 23:30:31 ! 23:30:50 attila_lendvai: I was there a couple days ago, but am back in SF again 23:31:03 I think easye is there though (: 23:31:26 antifuchs: hi! too bad... would have been nice to meet up 23:31:29 drewc: Unfortunately it's not the upstream binary, but a Gentoo build, there are things loaded along with my project (it's got a few deps), I don't get the last bit of your question. Compiling 1.0.58 now known to have worked correctly earlier. 23:31:30 mritz [~textual@cpe-70-112-1-179.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:51 it would have! this was such a short visit though that I doubt it could have worked at all (: 23:31:57 next time will be in the summer, I think (: 23:32:58 antifuchs: I live in almaty these days, also just visiting budapest... :) 23:33:23 antoszka: well, c/p'ing that function to my REPL and replacing the SELECT-BY-NICK with IDENTITY , and it works fine... save for the fact that you do not seem to know about lisp types :) 23:33:25 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:33:26 wait, kazakhstan? 23:34:17 drewc: This was basically the first thing I wrote, so don't expect much. 23:34:33 drewc: 1.0.58  works fine. 23:34:35 (and (not (null foo)) (typep foo 'list)) = (consp foo) 23:34:47 yep 23:35:09 as noted, this bit is a major TODO 23:35:29 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:30 shall I try with the upstream 1.1.2 binary? 23:35:51 antoszka: what happens when you add &aux (items (copy-list items)) ? 23:35:59 bananagram [~bananagra@98.198.236.112] has joined #lisp 23:36:01 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:36:32 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 23:36:36 pkhuong: I need to get 1.1.2 again to check. 1.0.58 does not exhibit any problems. 23:37:35 there was some added cleverness for &rest "lists" right after 1.0.58 23:37:45 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Client Quit] 23:37:57 am0c [~am0c@am0c.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:35 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:01 -!- cheier [~Thunderbi@64.129.86.8] has quit [Quit: cheier] 23:39:28 FV(5): (bill% 'umfc) 23:39:28 CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 31046(tid 140737353893632): 23:39:28 Memory fault at 0 (pc=0x1000d9e4bc, sp=0x7ffff703f300) 23:39:39 broken with binary build of 1.1.2 23:40:06 antifuchs: yep. (if it doesn't make sense then look for the women... :) altough, there's a lot of oil money/demand shuffling around here with little expertise... 23:40:42 no, pretty cool. it seems startlingly far (: 23:40:57 what are you working on these days? (can you talk about it?) 23:41:56 antifuchs: not as far as astana, where I set my cold record to somewhere around -45-50 (normal meters are off limit at that temperature) 23:42:01 pkhuong: as in: (defun bill% (client &aux (items (copy-list items))) )? 23:42:14 antoszka: well, you probably want to keep the &rest argument as well. 23:42:41 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 23:43:03 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.241.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:24 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:43:43 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-d7b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:44:08 SHODAN [~shozan@c-d7b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:44:14 -!- kmels [~kmels@frbg-5f732f82.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:44:35 pkhuong: keeping &rest and adding the &aux seems to have fixed the problem in 1.1.2 23:44:41 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 23:45:31 yeah. We keep &rest arguments on the stack as an implicit vector in a lot more situations now. 23:45:38 antifuchs: mostly on my model of reality: reading a lot about philosophy, psychology, parenting, etc... but as of IT, I'm helping my gf's relatives, they have a medium sized company and badly in need for some linux/programming knowledge. we just delivered an ip telephony system, 200+ openwrt routers, web phonebook, stuff like that. somewhat boring, but with nice people. 23:45:42 Only problem is that we don't check for out-of-bounds accesses yet. 23:46:02 yates [~user@71.54.138.0] has joined #lisp 23:46:09 sounds good (: 23:47:17 there can be :use parameters to defpackage, e.g., (defpackage #;my-package (:use #:his-package)) 23:47:37 pkhuong: Did the problem show up in my code because it's exceptionally ugly, or aren't the versions after 1.0.58 ready for public consumption yet? 23:48:00 does :use #:his-package mean to assume that package prefix for the current namespace? 23:48:05 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:48:16 antoszka: no, it's just an oversight. 23:48:20 you know, bugs. 23:48:25 pkhuong: yeah :) 23:51:11 ? 23:51:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:51:59 yates: you can use multiple packages, but yeah mostly. 23:55:01 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 23:57:30 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:58:49 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:53 Bike: how do i specify a package prefix for a normal repl loop, i.e., not inside a package?