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[~user@p54A1EC09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:12:54 -!- Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has quit [Quit: bed time...] 01:12:58 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.150.33] has quit [Quit: kthxbai] 01:13:19 Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.150.33] has joined #lisp 01:15:30 catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-146-7.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 01:16:15 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-146-7.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 01:19:19 riverc4c [~grive@pool-71-183-214-254.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:39 -!- dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:04 Yuuhi```` [benni@84.131.162.225] has joined #lisp 01:21:25 I'm trying to do some stuff with gentemp and symbols, so (gentemp (symbol-name 'X)) will return X2, but if I later do (gentemp (symbol-name 'X2)) that will give me X23, while I want X3 -- so I guess what I am asking is, how do I strip numbers from the end of a string? 01:21:25 dnolen [~user@pool-96-224-16-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:08 -!- bitonic` [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:16 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483A178.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:01 bc1: why does it matter? 01:23:53 <|3b|> clhs string-right-trim 01:23:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_tr.htm 01:23:54 if you need more than identity and easy READability, it may be time to use something else with more structure, e.g. a standard class or a structure. 01:24:31 the output will look bad if I don't do that... basically it's a first order logic theorem prover so it has to rename variables in clauses in order to get them to unify, but this process can take a long time and you may end up generating temporary variables dozens of times, so better to have something like X12 than X23456789 01:25:12 with gentemp, two identically-named variables could be distinct. 01:25:26 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:40 I'll take a look at this string-right-trim thing 01:25:49 what do you mean about gentemp? 01:26:02 -!- jeti`` [~user@p54A1EC09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:12 lmak [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 01:26:12 I thought it makes sure that whatever it gives you back is an unused symbol 01:26:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173.228.44.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:26:28 jeti`` [~user@p54A1EC09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:45 never mind. You probably never change the package. 01:26:50 I don't 01:27:45 still, this is usually the point where I stop using symbols. 01:28:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:29:18 -!- Sorella__ [~quildreen@201.58.214.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:29 Sorella [~quildreen@201.58.214.193] has joined #lisp 01:31:29 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@201.58.214.193] has quit [Changing host] 01:31:29 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 01:35:18 are standard classes easy READable? 01:36:16 antonv: no 01:36:41 Not uless you have implemented a PRINT-OBJECT method on it that creates a redable representation 01:40:35 stardiviner [~stardivin@122.236.255.167] has joined #lisp 01:44:08 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:13 -!- jeti`` [~user@p54A1EC09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:45:07 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:46:19 <|3b|> are there any good solutions to passing large arrays to foreign functions efficiently without worrying about implementation specific details? 01:46:39 *|3b|* found ffa, but it claims to be 'abandonware' 01:49:36 jeti`` [~user@p54A1EC09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:55 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:51:01 |3b|: there's also https://github.com/blindglobe/fnv or http://gitorious.org/iolib/static-vectors. 01:51:08 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-71-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:54:36 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:55:11 <|3b|> hmm, static-vectors might work 01:56:35 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-192-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 01:58:02 stlifey [~stlifey@116.26.20.72] has joined #lisp 02:01:55 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Read error: 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[~am0c@59.5.107.158] has joined #lisp 08:53:58 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:59:58 vimal2012 [~vimal@unaffiliated/vimal2012] has joined #lisp 09:00:36 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 09:06:15 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-047-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:51 ISF [~ivan@189.61.223.97] has joined #lisp 09:10:25 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:11:02 Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:11:53 Joreji_ [~thomas@134.61.95.79] has joined #lisp 09:13:52 -!- vimal2012 [~vimal@unaffiliated/vimal2012] has left #lisp 09:14:09 -!- theos is now known as Guest80686 09:14:50 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:16:53 -!- Guest80686 [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:19:52 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.198.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:21:34 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:36 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:52 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:22:08 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:22:27 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:23 -!- tensorpu1ding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25:17 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:43 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-okjqleycxdshjdyb] has joined #lisp 09:32:12 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-117-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:17 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.246.160.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:32:28 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:32:34 anybody know where in the hyperspec it talks about :back and/or :up in pathname directories? 09:32:57 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:03 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@134.61.95.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:36:46 segv_: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/19_bbdc.htm 09:37:21 thanks! 09:37:39 segv_: i love google quizzes :) 09:37:49 (if they are challenging) 09:38:20 since i search and searched for that page, what did you google? 09:38:33 (and here i was thinking you know that section number by heart) 09:38:34 segv_: site:lispworks.com ":wild" ":up" pathname 09:38:38 hah! 09:42:45 fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.246.235.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:13 I was starting on section 19 and working my way down from there. H4ns was way quicker... 09:44:30 ...or google is, at least 09:47:05 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.246.235.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:48:24 -!- Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:40 Jasko [~Jasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:14 dab [~dab@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 09:51:35 -!- dab is now known as Guest38038 09:51:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:53:38 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has joined #lisp 09:54:37 Xizor [~Xizor@46054hpv102217.ikoula.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:47 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:57:34 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:01:23 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:05:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:07:06 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 10:08:00 user123abc [~sally@67.171.79.251] has joined #lisp 10:09:35 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:39 fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.247.223.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 10:14:10 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.7.87] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 10:15:14 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.7.87] has joined #lisp 10:15:45 kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13F980.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:17 Joreji [~thomas@68-086.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:21:23 -!- am0c [~am0c@59.5.107.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:23:17 mathrick_ [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has joined #lisp 10:24:24 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.7.87] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 10:26:02 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 10:27:07 leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.7.87] has joined #lisp 10:27:53 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.161] has joined #lisp 10:34:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754fe3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:35:10 am0c [~am0c@59.5.107.158] has joined #lisp 10:36:29 hello 10:37:20 How can I make emacs indent the 2nd+ line of documentation string I write? 10:42:03 shwouchkie: #emacs 10:42:05 shwouchkie: my ocd also bothers me when I write multi line docstrings, but if I indent all the lines and then print the docstring with #'documentation, it will print all but the first line indented. 10:42:15 ... oh, docstrings 10:42:16 sorry 10:42:53 pavelpenev, so youre saying it is better not to indent? 10:43:00 alright, I guee 10:43:00 s 10:43:39 hm, wouldn't it be great to have a macro on cl-interpol that reindents... 10:44:24 shwouchkie: not with hard spaces at least, maybe something that exists only in emacs, but then it wouldn't show up in other editors or github ui 10:45:42 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:46:43 pavelpenev, for now that would be good enough, if you know a way :) 10:47:35 shwouchkie: sorry, you'll probably have to query #emacs for that. 10:48:43 alright 10:48:44 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:45 thanks 10:49:29 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:51 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-16-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:54:05 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@77.116.247.223.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:06:19 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:59 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 11:08:22 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:25 -!- Blecha [~jeff@unaffiliated/blecha] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:40 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-16-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:14:53 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-16-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:15:04 jackkit [~Jackk@105-236-149-10.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:15:05 hey guys. Sorry to bother. Please could you vote here. All you need to do is click the link and if success is true then you have voted. Thanks alot. For a painting. http://schilderijvanhetjaar.nl/paintings/vote_for_painting/628 11:17:39 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 11:17:45 -!- p_l has set mode +b *!*Jackk@*.access.mtnbusiness.co.za 11:17:45 -!- jackkit [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (jackkit) 11:17:52 Blecha [~jeff@unaffiliated/blecha] has joined #lisp 11:18:00 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 11:18:12 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-206-55.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:58 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xqgnajidmtbyymns] has joined #lisp 11:20:58 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xqgnajidmtbyymns] has quit [Changing host] 11:20:58 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:25:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@68-086.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.173.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:36:06 -!- Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:36:21 silenius [~silenius@brln-4db9a71f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:29 tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:43 jarmond [~jarmond@188-220-225-97.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:41:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:42:31 Ralt [~Ralt@eup38-1-82-247-184-72.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:06 Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:44:07 nntt [~nntt@pw126159055007.97.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:45:37 -!- nntt [~nntt@pw126159055007.97.tss.panda-world.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 11:48:25 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754fe3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:49:14 shwouchkie: here's a simple reader which reindents doc strings: 11:49:34 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 11:49:54 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133824 11:50:25 segv_, thanks! 11:50:31 did you write it just now? 11:50:40 two new lines to start a new paragraph, any paragraph that starts with 4 whitespace chars i left alone 11:51:00 shwouchkie: yeah, it's been bugging me for a long time and you (along with a lazy day) were a good excuse to jut write it. 11:51:05 untested, undocumented, etc. 11:51:09 that's nice! 11:51:29 indeed 11:51:31 thanks 11:52:24 -!- Xizor [~Xizor@46054hpv102217.ikoula.com] has quit [] 11:54:26 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 11:58:45 xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-41-14.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:01:07 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:02:54 -!- benny [~user@i577A85BD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:07 ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has joined #lisp 12:04:33 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has left #lisp 12:06:17 -!- am0c [~am0c@59.5.107.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:07:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:18:58 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-36-240.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:19:46 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:20:17 ArmyOfBruce [~bruce@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 12:20:36 -!- shifty` [~user@114-198-33-177.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:49 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:30:39 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13F980.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:30:55 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:39:32 can anyone please take a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/133826#1 and tell me if I am using loop correctly/idiomatically? 12:43:39 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 12:45:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.173.53] has joined #lisp 12:47:25 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:48:09 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 12:53:23 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:54:23 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-36-240.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 12:58:18 shwouchkie: I would say (loop for base in edge-list for l = (projection-length ...) sum (if ...)) 12:58:32 even more loopy 12:58:47 would be (loop for ... for ... if ... sum ...) 12:59:03 but opinions differ 12:59:27 tfb, in the last way you wrote it, I don't need the if with parens? 12:59:45 no, if is a loop clause 12:59:55 egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has joined #lisp 13:06:02 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:06:32 qptain_Nemo [~qN@89.207.216.208] has joined #lisp 13:07:40 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:08:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:14 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:09:45 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:44 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-243.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:15:08 shwouchkie: you can also destructure in for clause for (flag . value) = (projection-length base edge) 13:15:19 tfb, cool 13:15:44 segv_, nice, thanks 13:22:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:23:48 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:52 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9.1] 13:29:24 -!- `fogus is now known as fojure 13:40:58 Rackmount [~frogsicle@173.240.222.2] has joined #lisp 13:44:21 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-117-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 13:45:12 tfb, I tried to do what you suggested on an example piece: (loop with b for a in '(1 2 3 4) for b = (* a a) do sum b) 13:45:16 and I get an error 13:45:46 you don't need the with 13:45:53 and do 13:46:11 (loop for a in ... for b = ... sum) 13:46:38 (loop for a in '(1 2 3 4) sum (* a a)) 13:46:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:46:53 and like jdz says though I am not sure if the do is syntactically OK (I guess it is), the with is not 13:47:32 looking at that: "the with is not", what on earth is that meant to mean... 13:47:46 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-48.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:48:06 if only the default case in CL were uppercase 13:48:17 then it would be easy to be clear in mostly-lowercase prose 13:48:55 hmm 13:49:17 I used to type things like that on CLL and in comments etc (ie "the WITH is not") but people complained 13:49:17 benny [~user@i577A3F59.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:48 tfb, and if I want to have some c that I update every time I enter the loop, then godda do setf? 13:50:18 tfb, jdz thanks both btw 13:50:34 If you want to update it *once* per loop then WITH is your friend, if you want to update once per iteration then FOR 13:51:14 tfb, I want to update it once per iteration, but according to the previous value 13:51:15 but beware there are order restrictions: I don't think you can say (loop for ... do ... for ...) 13:51:26 ah, I see 13:51:32 so setf it 13:51:33 is 13:51:41 You can say (loop for x = 1 then (+ 1 x) ...) 13:52:00 say 13:52:06 -!- Blecha [~jeff@unaffiliated/blecha] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:52:14 cyanboy [~Adium@56.209.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:52:21 ah 13:52:42 but wouldn't it update x to 1 each iteration? 13:53:17 people complained? that capitalization convention for symbols embedded in email etc. is ancient tradition 13:53:34 I know, I had to kill them 13:53:38 but I felt bad afterwards 13:54:08 clhs 6.1.2.1.4 13:54:09 The for-as-equals-then subclause: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_abad.htm 13:54:22 shwouchkie: there, some nice reading for ya 13:54:32 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.27] has joined #lisp 13:54:57 -!- cyanboy [~Adium@56.209.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 13:55:04 tfb, I want the equivalent of (loop with a = somelist do (somestuff) (setf a (cdr a)) 13:55:07 for example 13:55:37 shwouchkie: (loop for a on somelist do (somestuff-with a)) 13:55:43 shwouchkie: that is probably exactly (loop for a = somelist then (cdr a) do ...) 13:55:53 but what jdz says is more idiomatic 13:56:12 aaah 13:56:26 let me revise 13:56:31 ON is exactly cdr-based iteration 13:57:16 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 13:57:31 I want the equivalent of (loop with a = somelist for b on otherlist do (somestuff) (setf a (some-operation-on a)) 13:57:46 clhs 6.1.2.1.3 13:57:46 The for-as-on-list subclause: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_abac.htm 13:58:31 shwouchkie: that's exactly what tfb already told you 13:58:31 shwouchkie: and that really is exactly the (loop for a = ... then (fn a) ...) case 13:58:38 even replace somelist with something in the prev. 13:59:12 tfb, I didn't see the then, don't know the syntax yet. I'll take a look 13:59:17 thanks 13:59:49 to be fair, loop is almost the canonical thing CL-haters hate 14:00:01 because of the mass of obscurities in it 14:00:31 also, for-as-on-list takes a function, so (loop for a on somelist by #'some-operation-on-a do ...) 14:00:56 would (maybe) work 14:00:57 jdz, YES, THAT i SAW ALREADY 14:01:01 sorry bout caps 14:01:02 shwouchkie: no you have not 14:01:03 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:01:08 jdz: that's *exactly* why they hate it 14:01:26 tfb: that's exactly why i don't care about *them* 14:01:31 jdz, I did, just not in your example 14:02:06 shwouchkie: are you very very sure? 14:02:39 jdz: oh yes, me neither, I like it (LOOP) 14:03:16 jdz, I am, though does it really matter? :) 14:03:25 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:40 shwouchkie: yes, if you want to learn anything 14:04:43 the clhs is very unclear with the pages you two showed me (i.e. for-as-equals-then, etc). Refers for "form1", "form2" without defining them, for example 14:05:11 jdz, does it really matter whether I saw something the first time when you said it or in a book? 14:05:12 shwouchkie: they are all defined in the main LOOP page 14:05:14 clhs loop 14:05:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 14:05:26 ahh 14:05:35 thanks 14:07:04 ludston [~patience@101.161.231.145] has joined #lisp 14:07:08 kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:57 shwouchkie: also, there's a difference between seeing something, and understanding it. 14:10:27 Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:13 (destructuring-bind (a b c) (expression-that-can-return-nil) ...) 14:11:28 is there a known approach to that kind of things? 14:11:40 jdz, :) 14:11:41 (destructuring-bind (&optional a b c) (expression-that-can-return-nil) ...) 14:11:43 I mean when nil is an expected answer and the processing of nil is just do nothing 14:11:51 -!- jarmond [~jarmond@188-220-225-97.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has left #lisp 14:11:59 H4ns: wow. Of course. thanks. 14:12:03 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:12:04 jarmond [~jarmond@188-220-225-97.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:12:12 or (block nil (destructuring-bind (a b c) (or (expression) (return)) ...) 14:12:13 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:12:14 the simplicity of things like that in CL still amazes me 14:12:36 and it works in (require 'cl) too 14:12:50 could someone take a loop at this loop and tell me if it is now idiomatic? http://paste.lisp.org/display/133827 14:13:40 i personally give up 14:14:23 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-36-240.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:14:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-192-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:39 jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:14:52 shwouchkie: it's not even legal 14:14:54 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:10 jjkola_work_ [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:18 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 14:15:42 dlowe, which part? 14:16:53 -!- jjkola_work [~jjkola@fw-hki.ixonos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:53 -!- jjkola_work_ is now known as jjkola_work 14:16:59 shwouchkie: I think you'll find out if you compile it 14:17:18 anyway, it looks fine 14:17:34 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 14:19:37 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:23:09 Joreji_ [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:06 -!- silenius [~silenius@brln-4db9a71f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:20 dlowe: a missing with? 14:32:15 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-230-100.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:59 how can I convince the lisp compiler that my code is reachable? 14:34:15 or find out why it thinks it is unreachable 14:34:42 shwouchkie: usually, you need to fix the bug. 14:34:53 shwouchkie: usually, you find out by looking at your code. 14:35:47 tfshfz [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 14:36:05 newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has joined #lisp 14:37:15 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:39:47 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:45:03 -!- egnarts-ms [~smsmfk@195.160.233.181] has left #lisp 14:45:05 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-46-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:28 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:39 -!- kofno [~kofno@cpe-24-165-213-150.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:16 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:51:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:29 H4ns, the place where this occurs doesn't make sense 14:53:57 shwouchkie: look harder, think harder 14:54:27 shwouchkie: usually, it is because somewhere else, the compiler infers a constant which makes a conditional branch unreachable. 14:55:01 I love puzzling out that warning. 14:55:17 H4ns, that much is obvious, and yet I tested by hand the previous code and made sure it can take the values 14:55:23 dlowe, wanna take a look? 14:55:33 shwouchkie: I meant in my own code 14:55:38 :) 14:55:51 shwouchkie: you don't want to say that the compiler lies to you, or do you? 14:55:58 kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has joined #lisp 14:56:03 H4ns, perhaps it is wrong 14:56:12 shwouchkie: it is not very likely 14:56:22 H4ns, and yet possible? 14:56:41 shwouchkie: blaming problems on compiler error is a mistake that beginners make 14:56:43 shwouchkie: i've often thought the same thing, i think there has only been one case where that wasn't true (and i can't recall it, and if so, it was fixed) 14:57:06 shwouchkie: over time, you'll learn that while compiler bugs happen, they are much much less frequent than you hope. 14:57:08 shwouchkie: turns out the compiler tends to be really really smart 14:57:30 H4ns, is there a way to step through the compilation tree or something similar to see where it infers a constant? 14:57:52 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:02 tdammers [~tobias@212-182-150-105.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 14:58:04 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@80.63.227.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58:08 SHODAN: no. 14:58:14 oops. shwouchkie ^ 14:58:28 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:58:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:59:04 shwouchkie: sometimes, the problem hides in a macro expansion 14:59:08 does anyone know of a library to interact with git from lisp? it could be by wrapping the commandline scripts in lispy forms 14:59:14 shwouchkie: paste both the code and the error message to paste.lisp.org 14:59:15 shwouchkie: SBCL tells you which code exactly it thinks is unreachable, right? 14:59:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:59:50 kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has joined #lisp 15:00:38 jdz, of course 15:00:59 H4ns, one moment, I'll simplify it a bit 15:03:21 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6F6B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:05:05 fds [~fds@tickle.compsoc.man.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:05:40 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@user-0c9abes.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:06:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:51 H4ns, http://paste.lisp.org/display/133828 15:10:11 H4ns, The error is on the last line of code. 15:10:21 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:42 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:10:44 H4ns, the edges are in the form ((x1 . y1) . (x2 . y2)) 15:10:53 shwouchkie: mapcar will return a list, not a number. so that expression can not return without an error 15:11:07 hmm 15:11:09 damn 15:11:15 I should have applied + 15:11:19 shwouchkie: as that will return an error, (print 'whoa) cannot be executed :) 15:11:33 I see 15:11:43 compiler 1, shwouchkie 0 15:11:46 :) 15:12:07 I didn't realise it could also detect errors ahead of time 15:12:29 H4ns: though to be fair, the compiler won versus yourself a few times too. it has won to me on multiple occasions :) 15:12:32 H4ns, why not give a more meaningfull error message than "code unreachable" then? 15:12:54 shwouchkie: it may be very hard to produce a better error message 15:13:11 shwouchkie: and, frankly, you need to look at the other error messages as well if one of them does not make sense. 15:13:19 madnificent: thank you for letting me know. 15:13:38 H4ns: you're welcome 15:14:13 Thra11 [~thrall@87.113.150.33] has joined #lisp 15:14:16 H4ns, that was the first error. Youre saying its possible that a more meaningfull one was down the line? 15:14:19 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:26 shwouchkie: that is what i said. 15:15:01 shwouchkie: i find that sbcl often creates spurious error messages before it reports a problem in a macro expansion. 15:15:36 H4ns, isn't it possible for the compiler to say "code is unreachable because ..." where ... could be "a always equals nil" "there will be an error beforehand", etc? 15:15:46 I see 15:15:54 shwouchkie: it is possible, but it may be hard to create a message that is really more helpful. 15:16:29 shwouchkie: sbcl's error messages are not all that bad. i've seen much worse from, say, allegro cl 15:16:39 I see 15:16:44 one more question 15:16:51 gkeith_lt [gkeith@nat/google/x-wriblgolbenodqvp] has joined #lisp 15:17:00 in slime I press C-x ` to get to the next compile error 15:17:07 is there a key for prev. one? 15:17:12 didn't find it online 15:17:19 i use M-p/M-n 15:18:48 H4ns: with acl it's more like: have a stacktrace from the insides of the compiler ... very useful indeed 15:19:12 H4ns, thanks 15:20:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:48 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:22:53 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:54 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.42.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:24:21 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:24:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 15:24:40 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@AToulouse-551-1-41-14.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:12 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:29:35 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 15:30:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@2001:ba8:1f1:f1ef::3] has quit [Changing host] 15:30:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:32:48 hertz [~newblue@113.84.218.76] has joined #lisp 15:33:05 Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:39:38 -!- Guest38038 [~dab@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:40:39 i <3 plists 15:40:48 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-230-100.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:43:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:44:12 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.204.138] has joined #lisp 15:44:34 segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-117-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:57 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-150-31.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:27 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:23 (loop for (k . v) on plist by #'cddr ...) is... powerful? :) 15:49:53 i usually prefer alexandria:doplist 15:50:18 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:51:34 I should add alexandria in the to-discover list then 15:51:51 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:52:30 what i like right now is how one can prepend data to a plist to override only a few keys. 15:52:32 walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:22 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:52 H4ns: alists have the same thing, of course. Also it is trivial for either to make the whole thing "stack-unwinding-safe" 15:56:38 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 15:57:26 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-136-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:04 cornihilio [~cornihili@e0109-106-182-97-63.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 15:58:50 hey, I just quickloaded glop and now I'm trying to run "(glop-test:test-gl-hello)" in slime but I don't know how to change packages 15:58:59 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:59:15 ... why would you need to change packages in order for that to work? 15:59:54 nyef: admittedly I don't know what I'm doing. so what am I supposed to do to be able to run that in slime? 15:59:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:00:05 Enter it at the REPL. 16:00:55 CL-USER> (glop-test:test-gl-hello) 16:00:56 ; Evaluation aborted on #. 16:01:34 Okay, so it looks like you don't have a package named "GLOP-TEST" in your system. 16:01:55 At least, I presume that's the package in question? 16:02:05 just a guess, but try quickloading glop-test 16:02:37 Yeah, my next question was actually if glop was quickloaded from slime, or if it was done in a separate session. 16:03:12 yeah, there's a glop-test package too 16:03:22 at least there is at github 16:05:10 -!- hertz [~newblue@113.84.218.76] has quit [Quit: ] 16:05:52 -!- linsy [~ev@46.0.144.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:46 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.91.48] has joined #lisp 16:09:35 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:15 BeLucid_ [~belucid@66.57.34.9] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:18:56 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:10 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-36-240.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 16:21:18 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.91.48] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 16:24:36 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:28:04 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:46 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:30:00 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:14 stat_vi [~stat@94.218.235.180] has joined #lisp 16:30:40 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:51 -!- deego is now known as Guest23858 16:31:00 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 16:31:12 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 16:33:30 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:35:00 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:31 mattrepl [~mattrepl@lark.vsnet.gmu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:40:13 Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:39 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 16:45:48 kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has joined #lisp 16:47:17 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 16:47:49 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:50:33 xxhx` [~user@190.138.35.151] has joined #lisp 16:51:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:27 redscare [~Adium@18.189.56.143] has joined #lisp 16:52:13 -!- xxhx [~user@host115.190-226-93.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:52:44 -!- paolo_m [~user@2-228-95-110.ip190.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:06 xxhx`` [~user@190.225.87.159] has joined #lisp 16:55:10 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:58 -!- xxhx` [~user@190.138.35.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:58 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-36-240.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 is there a function that test whether an element is in a list, or do I need to write one? 17:01:08 clhs member 17:01:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_member.htm 17:01:33 shwouchkie: That should do the trick, more or less. 17:01:51 yep 17:01:53 thanks 17:02:34 -!- xxhx`` is now known as xxhx 17:02:52 kjbrock [~user@63.110.51.11] has joined #lisp 17:05:20 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.56.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:06:35 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-047-151.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:09:28 -!- tfb [~tfb@fw-tnat.cambridge.arm.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0.2/20121025210744]] 17:09:33 redscare [~Adium@18.189.124.194] has joined #lisp 17:09:33 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.124.194] has quit [Client Quit] 17:10:43 nyef, slightly more complicated - something to filter a list of elements from another list? (I can write it if theres nothing) 17:13:10 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:14:17 SET-DIFFERENCE, maybe? 17:14:33 findiggle [~kirkwood@50.194.56.154] has joined #lisp 17:15:13 Worst-case scenario is (remove-if (lambda (x) (member x ...))...). 17:15:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:10 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.81] has joined #lisp 17:16:25 bxx_ [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 17:16:49 nauar [~Grunt@80.30.233.84] has joined #lisp 17:17:17 nyef, yeah, that's what I hought to do more or less 17:17:48 AeroNotix [~xeno@cgn223.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:18:23 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:19:37 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:20:33 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-36-240.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 17:24:29 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:13 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 17:26:53 kilon_alios [~kilon@212.54.194.25] has joined #lisp 17:27:57 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:28:21 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:30:28 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:52 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:33:25 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:36:59 goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-fptbnhwssqpntzzj] has joined #lisp 17:37:22 is there an emacs shortcut to get to the first non whitespace char on a line? 17:40:00 shwouchkie: M-m 17:40:42 daimrod, thanks 17:43:34 linsy [~ev@5.164.145.224] has joined #lisp 17:43:47 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 17:43:49 -!- kilon [~kilon@212.54.194.25] has quit [Changing host] 17:43:49 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 17:44:33 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.44.240] has joined #lisp 17:46:44 -!- cornihilio [~cornihili@e0109-106-182-97-63.uqwimax.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:47:27 -!- goldenlight [goldenligh@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-fptbnhwssqpntzzj] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:48:44 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:49:32 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:44 ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-039-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:35 Fullma [~fullma@82.66.69.246] has joined #lisp 17:55:17 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 17:56:08 -!- PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has left #lisp 17:56:13 -!- gkeith_lt [gkeith@nat/google/x-wriblgolbenodqvp] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:56:51 -!- jarmond [~jarmond@188-220-225-97.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: jarmond] 17:58:47 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:20 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:51 If I do a loop with two for clauses, one of them also having a then clause - will I get a double loop, or a loop that advances both things at the same time? 18:05:54 why don't you try it? :) 18:07:11 shwouchkie: loop only does parallel iteration. 18:07:29 pkhuong, great, thanks 18:07:47 daimrod, good question 18:09:56 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 18:11:18 tsuru` [~charlie@74.179.25.48] has joined #lisp 18:14:30 nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has joined #lisp 18:14:56 xcombelle [~xcombelle@90.11.52.14] has joined #lisp 18:16:33 -!- linsy [~ev@5.164.145.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:17:03 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@74.179.25.48] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:17:35 is slime supposed to add to the menu for the .lisp files? I see REPL and SLIME menu is added for the *slime-repl* buffer, but seems it adds nothing for regular 'lisp-mode 18:17:55 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:18:17 *maxm* had menu turned off for ages, but I'm looking for an example on adding a menu that does thing to (current-defun) 18:19:08 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:19:21 pnpu11 [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:19:55 tsuru` [~charlie@74.179.25.48] has joined #lisp 18:20:13 ASau [~user@46.115.68.120] has joined #lisp 18:20:29 luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:19 -!- pnpu11 [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:23:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 18:25:29 ok, found it.. apparently if menu bar was off when slime.el was loaded, its never added to the slime-menu-map 18:27:02 what is enum equivalent in lisp? i read things like defconst, deftype but what would be the lisp way? 18:27:33 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:27:47 nan_: use raw symbols 18:27:52 keywords 18:27:58 nan_: or keywords 18:28:06 :some-event :some-other-event etc 18:28:09 nan_: but I like packaged-owned symbols for internal code 18:28:13 nan_: If it's a fixed set, keywords are good, if it can be extended, packaged symbols. 18:28:32 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:28:58 would you kindly give me link to a code to this keyword enum usage? 18:29:06 nan_: And (MEMBER ) would be the type (which, of course, you could shorten with DEFTYPE) 18:29:55 redscare [~Adium@18.189.124.194] has joined #lisp 18:30:07 kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has joined #lisp 18:30:41 nan_: (defun f (e) (ecase e (:foo 42) (:bar 12))) (f :foo) 18:32:46 daimrod: i understand now, thanks! 18:33:26 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 18:35:30 kmb_ [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:43 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.44.240] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 18:35:55 -!- kmb_ [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:36:01 -!- kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:36:47 kmb [~kmb@cpe-72-227-136-13.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:29 kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13F980.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:43 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@74.179.25.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:44 -!- kofno [~kofno@24.165.213.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:41 linsy [~ev@5.164.145.224] has joined #lisp 18:43:31 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 18:43:52 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:43:57 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:47:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.198.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:53:12 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.68.120] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:54:04 ASau [~user@46.115.68.120] has joined #lisp 18:57:11 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@user-0c9abes.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:56 -!- luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:54 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@user-0c9abes.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:09 luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:08 gkeith_lt [gkeith@nat/google/x-nkmuartmvpmkuyuk] has joined #lisp 19:03:31 luqui_ [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:11 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 19:04:23 -!- linsy [~ev@5.164.145.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:04:29 Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:24 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:57 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-78FAD086.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 19:05:58 -!- luqui_ is now known as luqui 19:06:54 -!- luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:55 -!- luqui_ is now known as luqui 19:07:39 _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 19:10:59 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:11:49 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-okjqleycxdshjdyb] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:12:13 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 19:13:13 -!- bxx_ [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 19:13:26 Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:14:38 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13F980.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:15:28 kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13F980.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:52 cornihilio [~cornihili@e0109-106-182-97-63.uqwimax.jp] has joined #lisp 19:19:13 Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 19:21:44 -!- Faed is now known as Fade 19:23:58 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:25:25 -!- nauar [~Grunt@80.30.233.84] has quit [] 19:25:42 -!- luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 19:27:53 luqui [~luqui@50.134.131.109] has joined #lisp 19:28:46 is there some easy way to restrict the number of characters in format ~a, like it can be done in printf? 19:29:07 (and with easy I do _not_ mean "subseq" and "min") 19:29:43 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.124.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:30:13 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:30:41 flip214: no, but http://osdir.com/ml/lisp.mcl.general/2002-12/msg00059.html 19:31:53 H4ns: and, that's nice. thanks a lot. 19:31:54 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13F980.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:45 flip214: trunc-a must be in cl-user, if you were not aware of that. 19:34:55 H4ns: thank you. just read "If name does not contain a ``:'' or ``::'', then the whole name string is looked up in the user package." 19:40:20 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:18 kmels_ [~kmels@p5B13F980.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:40 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl23-16-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:46:27 ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has joined #lisp 19:49:49 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:03 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:54:27 emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:40 What's the format string to print a parameter as a number? (e.g., the length of a list argument using # as the parameter) 19:54:48 ml__ [~ml@p3E9E5155.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:35 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.68.235] has joined #lisp 19:55:54 -!- Ralt_ [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:55 emacs-dwim: "~d" (length list) 19:56:03 hi all, is there any other way to extend an adjustable array despite vector-push-extend? 19:56:21 ml__: 'despite vector-push-extend' ? 19:56:39 ml__: adjust-array (: 19:56:39 ml__: adjust-array 19:56:43 -!- gkeith_lt [gkeith@nat/google/x-nkmuartmvpmkuyuk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:56:45 oh, sure ,thanks 19:56:53 flip214: i'll also be processing the list after ~:* so i'd like to avoid passing the list twice. i thought i remembered a way... 19:57:24 uhm, just checked my wording, 'despite' should mean 'not including', not? 19:57:33 yeah. 19:57:37 or 'besides' 19:57:43 mhm :) 19:57:45 i don't think it's correct language. but i'm not a native. 19:58:12 me neither 19:58:23 ml__: either case, the answer was here quickly :) 19:59:09 emacs-dwim: yes, just go back an argument - you said "~:*" yourself. 19:59:27 but if you need the length, you'll either need to pass it or count it ... 19:59:37 yes, very quick, thanks 20:02:55 daniel1 [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 20:03:13 -!- daniel1 is now known as danielmg 20:03:22 -!- danielmg [~danielmg@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 20:05:25 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-93-120.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:35 -!- xcombelle [~xcombelle@90.11.52.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:17 linsy [~ev@5.164.180.86] has joined #lisp 20:15:47 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-96-148.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:16:45 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 20:17:57 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.198.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:09 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:20:14 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:46 flip214: thanks 20:29:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.173.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:12 -!- linsy [~ev@5.164.180.86] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:32:22 Is anyone here going to the meeting at Google in a couple hours? I'm curious where the entrance is. I'm aware of the Coop and the food court, but I've never taken note of how people might get upstairs from there. 20:32:55 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-241-203.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:34 s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-206-217.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:38 -!- optikalmouse [~user@gw.trapeze.com] has left #lisp 20:34:55 zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has joined #lisp 20:36:23 -!- segv_ [~mb@dslb-088-075-117-030.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: segv_] 20:38:30 -!- kjbrock [~user@63.110.51.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:50 ChibaPet: is there a lisp related meeting at google? 20:39:05 Yes. It was advertised on the boston-lisp mailing list. 20:39:31 http://fare.livejournal.com/170092.html 20:39:31 Got a link handy? Not that I'd be able to attend, but curious. 20:39:33 thx 20:39:36 1138 20:40:21 what's the function to get a double-float from an integer? (the double-float) says it's not. 20:40:22 Is anyone recording the lightning talks? 20:41:01 ah, float with a second argument. got it. 20:41:16 I'm hoping that someone is recording the main presentation, because I'm going to miss it otherwise. 20:41:36 There was recording at a meeting I attended a few months ago. If there's not, I can see if I can get permission and aim my phone at them. 20:41:58 I wouldn't bet on my battery to last the whole meeting. 20:42:05 nyef: Well, yeah, both. 20:42:22 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:42:23 -!- luqui [~luqui@50.134.131.109] has quit [Quit: luqui] 20:42:30 ChibaPet: There's certainly a risk. 20:43:21 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:42 luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:13 -!- luqui [luqui@clozure-78FAD086.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: luqui] 20:46:13 -!- luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.11.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:47:09 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:59 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:48:01 So, there's a bunch of construction between 5CC and 3CC 20:48:33 if you're walking away from Kendall, you pass the coop and then turn right at your first opportunity 20:48:37 Have they finally ripped out the roof garden? That's a shame it's being considered. 20:48:41 under some scaffolding 20:48:51 It'll still be there. I think it'll even be nicer. 20:49:03 There will be some glass doors on your right with a security guard 20:49:07 Oh, it's along Ames street? 20:49:13 Or before that? 20:49:13 no, I mean literally 20:49:34 It shares the same building as the Coop 20:49:36 Facing Main Street then, before Ames? 20:49:38 Alright. 20:49:54 I'm still trying to figure out if I'm going 20:49:54 I'm going to park in the Marriot I think. Too cold to walk far. 20:50:53 I took a shower this morning, if that factors in. 20:54:06 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:54:19 qq 20:54:31 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:48 (sorry focus in the wrong place) 20:56:08 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-150-31.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:56:27 -!- francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has quit [Quit: francisl] 20:58:37 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 20:59:34 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-207-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:03 ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has joined #lisp 21:01:35 redscare [~Adium@18.189.10.121] has joined #lisp 21:01:44 blbef_ [~chatzilla@089144206068.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:42 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206068.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:03:50 -!- blbef_ is now known as blbef 21:06:13 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:06:39 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-136-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06:58 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-136-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:15 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@lark.vsnet.gmu.edu] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:10:41 spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 21:13:08 rooftopjoe [bc19a7df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.25.167.223] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 -!- newbie_coder [4267ffa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.103.255.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:31 hi. what ABI's do lisp compilers for x86 use? 21:13:45 what do i look up? 21:14:18 calling conventions and such 21:14:36 fasls aren't interchangeable so I don't think they have a common ABI 21:14:48 fasls? 21:14:58 equivalent of C's .o files 21:15:20 Not really. 21:15:43 rooftopjoe: http://www.sbcl.org/sbcl-internals/Calling-Convention.html kind of old, but. 21:15:43 ah 21:15:48 Bike: ty 21:16:10 rooftopjoe: you will have difficulty integrating any lisp but ECL with anything else 21:16:26 rooftopjoe: on the other hand, it can be surprisingly easy to integrate something else with a lisp 21:16:31 ccl callbacks aren't so bad. 21:16:35 oh, you meant the other way. 21:16:37 right so that abi is for SBCL. there is no "standard" abi 21:16:41 lispworks nowadays supports compiling lisp into a shared library too 21:16:46 there is no standard, no. 21:17:05 half of the original common lisps were for specialized machines, anyway... 21:17:52 I've often thought it'd be neat for a lisp runtime to be a shared library, but I don't have the time, nor the proficiency, nor the time to gain the proficiency to write such a beast 21:17:53 -!- ludston [~patience@101.161.231.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:18:30 -!- _d3f [~freedo@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu went back to savannah ~] 21:18:37 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 21:19:16 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@cek27.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:19:17 I've had similar thoughts about shared library implementations, but I just don't have the time, and what time I do have has higher-priority projects waiting for it. 21:19:18 can anyone refer me to a good explanation of how to step through code? couldn't find anything useful online 21:20:23 luqui [~luqui@c-50-134-131-109.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:52 -!- rooftopjoe [bc19a7df@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.25.167.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:21:54 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@cgn223.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:14 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@cek27.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:22:34 AeroNotix [~xeno@cek27.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:23:55 -!- leoncamel [~leoncamel@1.202.7.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:24:05 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [] 21:27:42 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.214.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:29:53 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.28.182] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:20 jeti` [~user@p548E9CE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:43 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:10 kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has joined #lisp 21:34:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-37-56.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:44 dlowe: it shouldn't be that hard, actually 21:35:06 dlowe: the bigger thing is that I'm unsure how much gain would there be 21:36:49 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:50 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.28.182] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 21:37:16 The memory savings could be pretty big. 21:37:31 If your tenured generation is shared between processes 21:37:43 dlowe: how about ecl? 21:38:20 Using C as an intermediate isn't quite what I had in mind. 21:38:42 dlowe: that's done on SBCL with uncompressed cores 21:38:43 -!- zophy [~sy@24.111.9.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:38:47 probably same for CCL 21:39:12 As long as you start with the same core, yeah 21:39:33 could say the same for libs too, though 21:40:00 dlowe: the main thing I'm interested from shared library runtime for SBCL would be easy swapping of differing GC strategies 21:41:08 the main tricky point is being able to integrate the lisp part with other event loops, I think. So you can't hog signals etc 21:41:37 mal_: I don't see much chance in loading SBCL as shared lib into another runtime :) 21:42:57 lispworks supports that now, even with multi-processing 21:43:21 I don't know internals of LW 21:45:16 -!- Guest23858 [~user@unaffiliated/deego] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:45 if I get time to try hacking SBCL, loading it as shared library in another unprepared process is pretty much on the low end 21:46:17 yeah I don't see that many uses either. still if the LW guys did it, they must have had demand for that feature. 21:47:10 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@95-079.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:48:09 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:48:38 mal_: they do. But the runtime characteristics of their implementation are a bit different 21:48:49 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:56 there's for example that Photoshop plugin built with LW 21:50:12 hmmm never heard of that one 21:50:42 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:51:39 but right now I'm thinking of taking stabs at things like fully relocatable images, ability to load multiple images (i.e. instead of fasl, you'd load a "partial dump", which could be shared between processes), then maybe something like AppDomains from .NET and some way to crunch code into smaller parts 21:51:39 Actually, hacking SBCL to do that would probably be pretty straightforward... on any non-x86oid machine. 21:51:43 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:52:02 nyef: amd64 shouldn't be too hard too, right? 21:52:53 Right, for x86-64 you "just" burn a reg for NULL and can find all of the static symbols from there. 21:53:13 You'll still need to fix up static function linkage, and the non-threaded allocation sequence. 21:53:39 nyef: given that many languages burn a reg for a 0... 21:53:52 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:54:01 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@cek27.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 21:54:05 SBCL tends to burn a reg for 0 on many backends as well. 21:54:23 and I'm unsure if the impact on static linkage wouldn't be lessened with some tricks 21:55:09 nyef: how much would be lost if you had 0 and NULL in L1 cache? 21:55:24 what does using a reg for 0 mean? 21:55:56 Bike: a cpu register that always holds 0, whether because of code, or by hw implementation 21:55:56 Bike: Having one of the CPU registers always containing 0 as a value, so that it's easily available. 21:56:15 huh, you can't use immediates? 21:56:23 I must say, not having 0 in register on ARM is a pain occasionally. 21:56:25 Bike: depends 21:56:36 But not as much of a pain as simply not having enough registers. 21:57:11 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.182.4.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:57:47 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:57:57 still, on AMD64 we could use redzone an apropriate function entry points to have a 0 and NULL be available by single load that probably would keep the data in cacheline 21:59:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.68.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:05 (excuse my bad syntax) for 0: load rX,[RSP+8]; for nil: load rX,[RSP+16] 22:00:10 or however the redzone went 22:01:03 On AMD64, we have registers to spare to begin with. 22:01:52 nyef: maybe, but I started to worry when I noticed how trigger happy I was with allocating them to various uses 22:03:39 I mean, register tags, thread-local area, possibly current allocation area, NIL, etc. 22:04:13 I've been working with 16 registers. One is NULL, one is a stack pointer, two are frame pointers, three is the bare minimum for function argument passing, one is reserved for the lexical environment... 22:04:24 That's half down already. 22:04:32 gridaphobe [~user@128.54.6.45] has joined #lisp 22:05:39 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.63.57.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 22:05:44 heh 22:06:10 Oh, and I have an interior-pointer, an argument-count register, an extra boxed register (because otherwise I don't have enough available to juggle during function-calling) 22:09:02 a question about sbcl inlining: the function that should be inlined, does it have to be defined before the using function? 22:09:10 or is later in the same file also ok? 22:09:25 add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-24-202.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:10:28 Umm... One register used when returning multiple values (and when taking an error trap), and then I happen to need two more unboxed registers for alien-funcall... 22:10:35 enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:37 A pointer to the code object for the currently-running function, and then the program counter rounds out the list. 22:11:45 ... one register to rule them all 22:12:13 Good afternoon ... I'm trying to use SBCL's sb-sys:with-deadline and it doesn't seem to work anymore. Is it no longer supported? It is referred to but not actually described in the current manual. 22:12:36 ml__: must be already compiled 22:12:51 enn: I haven't heard of it being deprecated, but I've been somewhat out of the loop. 22:13:02 ok, thank you 22:13:11 -!- ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- Daman [~kawaie@unaffiliated/daman] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:15 -!- cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:14:23 cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:25 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:31 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-240-27.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:37 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-163-168-125.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:39 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 22:15:02 shwouchkster [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:11 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 22:15:30 zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:15:50 -!- spiderweb [~user@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:16:49 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:18:23 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:56 ttm [~The_third@178.170.99.117] has joined #lisp 22:19:51 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-136-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:28 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 22:20:35 nyef [~nyef@70.109.136.189] has joined #lisp 22:20:46 wormphle1m [~wormphleg@50.131.44.231] has joined #lisp 22:22:34 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:40 ahoops [~ahoops__@121.96.14.223] has joined #lisp 22:24:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- nan_ [~candodget@46.197.116.88] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- shwouchkie [~shwouchk@bzq-84-110-44-159.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@47319hpv099117.ikoula.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:24:33 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:27:03 -!- tfshfz [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Quit: terminated!] 22:28:20 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:28:40 -!- redscare [~Adium@18.189.10.121] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:37 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-207-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:31:16 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:31:32 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 22:31:50 Nshag [user@88.123.84.8] has joined #lisp 22:32:03 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-207-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:10 kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:32:28 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:36 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 22:46:18 adicarlo [adam@66-234-44-144.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:48 EHLO! 22:48:19 hey, i'm doing an sbcl build from source, putting toghether a binary tarball for internal use ... if I want the tarball to inclue sbcl lisp sources (e.g., sb-ext/deadline.lisp for instance), what's the proper build argument for that? 22:48:37 'INSTALL' is totally silent on the matter, or i'm blind... 22:52:47 -!- Hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:55:33 AIUI, there isn't an option for that. 22:55:39 bananagram [~bananagra@c-98-198-236-112.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:57 That said, you might double-check the scripts involved, as there might be an undocumented option for it. 22:57:01 homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has joined #lisp 22:57:13 I don't think there is -- at least I've never put it there 22:57:18 nyef: hmmm yah i've been poking about with that in mind... 22:57:35 the debian people build an sbcl-source package, I think 22:57:51 you could crib from that 22:57:53 Krystof: aye, that's a place to look for inspiration 22:57:57 Krystof: good idea 22:58:19 seems like i just need to put the files in place and hint whatever is doing the source file mapping 22:58:22 adicarlo: I think the default build makes equivalent of bindist one, so you can just tar it again after compilation and use install.sh normally 22:58:23 (are you the same adicarlo who used to do Debian Lisp in Ye Olde Days?) 22:58:36 Krystof: i am! 22:58:38 and onshored and stuff 22:58:45 yessir! 22:58:56 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@ip68-228-201-242.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:57 awesome 22:59:06 oh good, i was afraid you were about to heap scorn on me 22:59:08 heh 22:59:12 ericklc [~ikki@187.240.178.2] has joined #lisp 22:59:33 we really don't interact as much we should with the open source lisp community 22:59:54 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:27 myx [~myx@pppoe-210-238-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 23:00:29 Krystof: being a debian developer ground me down tho after a while 23:00:33 still an enthusiatic user tho 23:01:21 yeah, well, I remember those days too 23:01:34 speaking of which, it's my bedtime and your worktime :-) 23:01:57 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:02:12 Krystof: night 23:03:31 add^_^ [~add^_@m37-3-118-29.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 23:05:35 -!- stat_vi [~stat@94.218.235.180] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:06:21 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-24-202.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:21 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 23:07:02 Blkt [~user@62.10.10.99] has joined #lisp 23:11:07 nyef_ [~nyef@pool-70-109-136-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:08 -!- nyef [~nyef@70.109.136.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:28 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:49 yates [~user@nc-71-54-138-0.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:50 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-207-6.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:20:36 is cl-qt still being maintained? 23:20:58 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 23:22:05 nm - it looks like commonqt is the right library to use 23:23:54 -!- kilon [~kilon@unaffiliated/thekilon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:09 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-169-82-254.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:50 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:26:30 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-190-98-53.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:07 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27:44 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 23:28:33 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-118-29.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:32:50 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: au revoir] 23:33:33 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1177917310.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:34:15 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 23:35:01 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-206-55.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:38:46 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:56 catmtking [~catmtking@108.224.122.111] has joined #lisp 23:40:27 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:40 rainyman [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:20 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108.224.122.111] has quit [Client Quit] 23:43:25 -!- rainyman [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:43:47 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-196-139.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:44:10 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:18 -!- jeti` [~user@p548E9CE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:45:20 senj [~senj@S01060026f3e14440.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:10 how can a lisp program print line 2 and not print line 1, when line 1 comes before line 2? 23:52:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:53:15 gk1 [~gk@24-179-210-90.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:52 shwouchkster: there are a couple of ways at least 23:54:10 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 23:54:18 yates, in my case it was a bug (mine) 23:54:30 -!- homie [~homie@94.123.220.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:33 ok, glad you found it 23:54:33 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:37 yates, but I would like to hear the other ways 23:55:14 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:55:35 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:55:50 -!- Xizor [~Xizor@c83-252-198-185.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:49 shwouchkster: well, it could just not call anything to print... or if you're talking about return values, PROGN vs. PROG1 vs. PROG2 23:58:02 p_l, didn't get the last part