00:00:26 -!- p_l|backup [~pl@web1.rootnode.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:02:29 p_l|backup [~pl@web1.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:20 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:48 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-71-58-50-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 00:07:05 ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has joined #lisp 00:13:23 kmels_ [~kmels@p579D15A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:36 -!- kmels [~kmels@p579D1D99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:02 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 00:25:10 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@p579D15A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:25:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:29:09 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 00:31:24 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:32:05 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 00:42:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:43:01 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 00:44:39 -!- p_l|backup [~pl@web1.rootnode.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:45:13 p_l|backup [~pl@web1.rootnode.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:49:08 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 00:49:18 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:50:43 Thra11 [~thrall@84.93.168.89] has joined #lisp 00:51:11 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:51:37 Hi, what's the general debug flow in Lisp? In gdb like debugger, 00:51:37 I can use b lineno and just run gdb, and step. How to do similar 00:51:37 things in sbcl/slime/Emacs? 00:52:21 sellout42 [~Adium@64.25.231.230] has joined #lisp 00:53:20 davyzhu: lisp debugging generally has less stepping the *existing* code and more inspecting the situation interactively 00:53:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:45 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:47 single-stepping is available is some implementations 00:54:20 I don't offhand recall what SLIME provides; here are the standard facilities: 00:54:22 clhs step 00:54:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_step.htm 00:54:24 clhs trace 00:54:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_tracec.htm 00:54:31 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 00:56:01 -!- impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441792.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:59:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.207.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:00:57 kpreid: Thank you, sometimes I want to understand the big picture 01:00:58 of the program, i.e. program flow, and I use debugger to follow the 01:00:58 flow. If lisp has some tools like emacs lisp debugger, that I can 01:00:58 instrument code and step into it and view the output immediately. 01:06:20 davyzhu: I use (declaim (optimize debug)), put some (break) in the code and inspect the stacktrace. M-. and M-, are also good friends. 01:06:33 iirc pjb has a nice stepper. 01:07:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:08:18 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 01:09:03 davyzhu: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/common-lisp/lisp/stepper-packages.lisp (available in quicklisp) 01:10:25 ed-k [~user@rrcs-50-75-78-61.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:34 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:10:54 -!- JamesF [~JamesF@213.229.106.123] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:56 daimrod: thank you, I will try it. 01:11:39 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 01:12:10 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:44 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:33 justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:21 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:44 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 01:21:48 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:12 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.104.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:24:29 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:25:55 -!- ed-k [~user@rrcs-50-75-78-61.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 01:26:02 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 01:29:05 -!- erann [~erann@89.Red-83-50-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 01:31:37 impulse [~impulse@bas3-toronto48-1176441792.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:34:23 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:29 davyzhu [~user@114.91.109.170] has joined #lisp 01:40:44 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:40:53 -!- bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:41:13 ArmyOfBruce [~textual@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2FEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:50:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:52:37 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 02:00:29 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 02:03:43 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-224-253.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:09:42 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vupdenhhrotpwril] has joined #lisp 02:12:07 paultreselli [~chatzilla@ool-44c6da25.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:14:08 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vupdenhhrotpwril] has left #lisp 02:17:26 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 02:22:23 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:25:03 gkeith_glaptop__ [gkeith@nat/google/x-kobxhmergnwolrwi] has joined #lisp 02:30:40 -!- bxx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 02:32:51 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:31 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:09 -!- justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:44 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:13 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:40:23 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-132-90.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:42:12 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 02:43:01 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:13 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:34 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 02:52:15 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 02:53:27 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:57:25 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:57:49 the standard actually describes step, but it seems to be broken in slime 02:57:59 davyzhu: ^ that 02:58:37 p_l: can you elaborate? (there is a way to add annotations, but it's elaborate) 03:00:46 madnificent: some DOM trickery with javascript application operating on lispworks-hosted (or other) hyperspec 03:01:19 ahok. that might be within what i'd be willing to do for it. perhaps. 03:01:40 would take some care, and would probably have issues being properly portable between browsers, but should work fine on latest bunch (might have issues on Android browser, but should work on chrome for android, dunno about opera) 03:01:45 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 03:01:52 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:02:12 the code would modify the hyperspec in browser based on some database 03:03:00 some extra work should make it possible to make a shared database of annotations with offline sync 03:03:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:26 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 03:06:31 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:09:37 superflit_ [~superflit@216-160-142-247.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:45 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-91-122.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:10:45 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 03:20:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.116.237] has joined #lisp 03:21:03 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 03:21:13 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:34 it sounds like it could be done in an enyo app. why would that be legal and a direct form not? 03:24:06 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:24:47 so i was thinking about sbcl executable image size 03:25:21 is there any way it would be possible to create a much smaller but fully functional image by making an SBCL dynamic library 03:25:49 madnificent: the same way it's legal for you to scribble notes on the book then resell it 03:25:53 and for any functions/variables/objects that are the same as stock, they are kept in the library's memory space 03:25:59 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:26:16 madnificent: we aren't making modifications nor distributing HyperSpec, thus avoiding copyright completley 03:26:20 *completely 03:27:51 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 03:28:39 vsync: I find compression is pretty good. 03:28:54 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.109.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:32:44 vsync: uncompressed core files are treated like shared library, afaik 03:33:30 getting space use down would require some heavy reworking. I have some ideas, but I need to learn more before implementing them. Hopefully within 2y 03:35:28 p_l: seems to depend on the rights which you can pass on in the copyright legislation of different countries, but i get the picture. 03:36:34 madnificent: frankly speaking, I don't think LispWorks people will complain, and ANSI would probably have to attack dpANS and HyperSpec distributions as well 03:36:54 US copyright law being utter bullshit notwithstanding 03:37:41 -!- gkeith_glaptop__ [gkeith@nat/google/x-kobxhmergnwolrwi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:40:17 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:43 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 03:41:31 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:44:03 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:11 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-211-58.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 03:44:32 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 03:45:56 p_l: i don't like legal messes. and i'm too tired to think about it further. night! 03:46:03 p_l: thanks for the information btw 03:47:52 I suspect vsync meant to isolate the standard library as a separate shared library, rather than having it as part of every image? 03:48:12 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 03:51:51 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:42 vsync: if so, it's still not on par with sbcl in terms of performance or debugging, but you might be interested to look at ecl 03:55:20 thanks for the pointers 03:55:34 -!- bsamograd [~user@d50-99-109-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:42 actually, ACL and ECL do something like that 03:55:48 compression is one thing but it then requires the same amount of memory at runtime as well as cpu for uncompression 03:55:58 ACL has the its "core" divided into few parts 03:56:04 p_l: what do you mean about core files are treated like shared library 03:56:05 or at leat can do so 03:56:21 vsync: loaded using shared mmap() mapping 03:56:23 my biggest goal would be to get pages shared between images 03:56:31 so each process does not use the full amount resident 03:56:35 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106602ad090cd68.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:56:38 of its size resident i mean 03:56:50 vsync: then I recommend using dumped core and enabling KSM for SBCL processes 03:57:12 with uncompressed cores, though KSM would help even with compressed cores afaik 03:57:16 KSM? Google helped me little 03:57:21 (well, *should*) 03:57:25 ECL is usually what I look at, but reducing SBCL size is on my list of things TODO 03:57:25 ah nm a Linux feature 03:57:27 ooooooooh 03:57:28 pretty 03:57:39 vsync: sorry, the shortcut isn't very google-able, but Kernel Samepage Merging 03:58:00 last i looked compressed cores were just uncompressed at runtime 03:58:10 are they uncompressed on-demand lately? 03:58:13 or could they? 03:58:17 vsync: no 03:58:31 but shared file mappings don't work for compressed cores 03:58:37 gotcha 03:58:40 well thanks for the info 03:58:55 meanwhile uncompressed cores are, afaik, loaded *exactly* the way shared libs are loaded on linux 03:59:22 was musing last night after this discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4735589 03:59:24 i.e. SBCL's runtime reads the header and section directory and uses mmap() to map them into memory 03:59:32 oh cool 04:00:17 since linux kernel doesn't do shared libraries, it's done this way through mechanisms defined by ELF standard 04:01:16 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01:26 remember also that you can use fork() in SBCL, as long as you call it without threads running, to make processes sharing memory with COW semantics 04:01:37 rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has joined #lisp 04:02:24 i was thinking more "what if i run a bunch of completely different things simultaneously which all happen to use their own SBCL" 04:04:25 -!- benny [~user@i577A170B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:04:44 vsync: well, you can dump the "common set" into an image 04:05:04 it was quite common at one point to have SBCL core with swank 04:06:32 also, thanks for making me remember about some stuff I might need for SBCL-based hosting service 04:11:47 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:12:38 p_l: ah, use a single base image then load compiled code into each intance? 04:12:40 instance 04:12:43 p_l: oh? 04:12:46 *vsync* 's ears perk up 04:15:14 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@84.93.168.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:16:41 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 04:23:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:16 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:27:32 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 04:34:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.219.83] has joined #lisp 04:34:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.219.83] has quit [Changing host] 04:34:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:35:32 -!- p_nathan [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:37:59 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:38:17 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:07 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 04:49:37 -!- BeLucid_ [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:22 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:55 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:06:09 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:10:43 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 05:14:34 -!- Jeaye_ is now known as Jeaye 05:17:54 -!- fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:35 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:58 davyzhu [~user@114.91.123.167] has joined #lisp 05:22:11 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:50 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:29:02 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:33 -!- paultreselli [~chatzilla@ool-44c6da25.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:31:29 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 05:43:32 -!- strg [~strg@a89-182-40-4.net-htp.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:46:17 sabra [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 05:57:16 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:57:45 -!- doomlord_ [~doomlod@host86-140-44-84.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:03:32 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 06:03:33 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:08:01 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:57 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 06:11:41 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:12:09 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-140-44-84.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:12:10 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-79-217.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:13:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.219.83] has joined #lisp 06:13:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.219.83] has quit [Changing host] 06:13:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:15:44 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:18:23 davyzhu: you can insert calls to (break) or (invoke-debugger condition) in your program. 06:20:02 davyzhu: on implementations that don't implement cl:step, you can use cl-stepper: http://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/common-lisp/lisp 06:20:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-24-162-13.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:37 pjb: i was recommended to ask you: why can't compound function type specifiers be used for discrimination? 06:21:11 Hi pjb. 06:21:13 davyzhu: you mean in methods? 06:21:16 pnpuff: Hi! 06:21:30 I'm happy to see you! 06:21:31 davyzhu: or in general with typep? 06:21:46 in general with typep. 06:22:18 That's because the abilities of typep are implementation dependant. 06:23:24 what do you mean? near as I can tell, compound function specifiers are the only specifiers besides values that explicitly can't be used for discrimination. 06:23:25 Some implementations may do a better job at discriminating function types from their arguments or result types than other, but the only thing that's guaranteed to work is FUNCTION. 06:25:28 Bike: no, you can pass a function or (values ): type-specifier---any type specifier except values, or a type specifier list whose first element is either function or values. 06:26:08 Also, (type-of (function sin)) can be function, not necessarily (function (number) number). 06:26:53 So (typep (function sin) '(function (number) number)) can return nil, even if (subtypep '(function (number) number) '(function (number) number)). 06:27:54 really, I read it as meaning that form is an error. 06:28:00 (and it is, in sbcl and ccl, at least) 06:28:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-217.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:28:40 Bike: ah, sorry, you're correct, I didn't read the error section. 06:28:48 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:30:21 Perhaps it's a part that's over specified, given the difficulties of determining the exact signature of functions in general (it would require compile-time type inference), they said it is an error, but they could have left it up to the implementation. 06:30:40 hm. thanks. 06:31:53 Notice moreover that at compilation time, the signature of a function can be undetermined: (defun f (a b) (g a b)). Until g is defined (which can occur only at run-time), all we can say about f is (function (t t) t). 06:32:22 So ever type inference is of little help in general. 06:32:30 even 06:33:12 near as I can tell the idea is that function type-specifiers refer to invocations of the function rather than the function object itself, but it's not an intuitive distinction to me. 06:33:23 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:56 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:52 Well, an implementation can still provide (subtypep '(function (integer) integer) '(function (number) number)). 06:35:08 So you can test invocations, if you know the type of arguments. 06:35:12 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:32 hm, so it can, I hadn't realized that. 06:36:39 I'm searching for a good web-framework to use with hunchentoot . Now I'm in doubt between restas and weblocks (to the truth even ucw seems good) . I'm quite interested in performance matter and the choice it's difficult even because I'm in web-development beginning at time zero. Thanks a lot for every useful suggestion. 06:37:55 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:38:33 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:38:56 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:45:14 Sure: I think it's a matter of needs / tastes. But probably there is a suggested suggested iter to move away (possibly quickly) from starting point in which I am. Anyway thanks. 06:45:44 each web framework handles things differently. most of us roll our own for our own needs as well 06:47:21 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:27 with that out of the way, i recommend caveman 06:49:10 axion1: so now I'm like in a car shop at the moment of buying a car (I have to decide by myself) . Thanks for the reply and for the suggestion. :) 06:50:07 eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has joined #lisp 06:52:07 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 06:54:01 personally, i use hunchentoot with sexml 06:55:08 i learned a lot working directly with hunchentoot, and i recommend you mold your own framework around your ideas of how one should function, to learn more yourself 06:55:59 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 06:56:57 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 06:58:55 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.97] has joined #lisp 07:00:14 ok: even if working directly with hunchentoot it's advisable it looks to me a massive impact at beginning: should be taken in small doses. 07:02:21 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:02:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.24.155] has joined #lisp 07:04:21 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined 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joined #lisp 11:31:13 *moore33* is surprised to see trivial-garbage in the top ten QL downloads, and wonders what people use it for mostly: weak hash tables? 11:31:58 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 11:33:18 moore33: that, explicit gc and finalizers 11:33:22 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 11:34:28 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 11:34:45 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.125.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:10 moore33: the top ten list of course is misleading because it does not consider what systems are loaded as a dependency of another system. 11:37:53 Good point. 11:39:35 That would be an interesting graphing / data presentation project. 11:40:45 I just wrote a bunch of code for dependency tracking and graph cycle linearization, etc 11:41:03 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-193-196.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:41:07 I can assure you, it's not as interesting as it sounds! 11:42:54 No doubt :) 11:44:04 -!- zxq9 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Russel-Athletic [~Nobody@srbk-d9324109.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:17 Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has joined #lisp 12:28:34 -!- marijn` [~user@p5DDB3D36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:35:30 -!- Russel-Athletic [~Nobody@srbk-d9324109.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:37:56 *maxm-* is having so many small in-house systems, that I'm considering writing a small wrapper macro, that expands into both asdf:defsystem and defpackage 12:38:01 that picks up *.lisp automatically 12:38:04 kind of like java 12:39:02 getting tired of "copy template system, start adding same stuff I use both into defsystem, then defpackage, then adding files".. After 3 minutes doing it, I've forgot what is it I'm creating new lib for 12:39:32 wondering if someone has a similar hack already done? 12:39:51 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 12:41:14 davyzhu [~user@114.91.125.179] has joined #lisp 12:42:28 erann [~erann@24.Red-83-61-36.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:03 -!- justinmc_ [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:38 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:00 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-109.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:07 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:48:18 bitonic [~user@dyn900-109.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:48:36 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:05 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-015-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:50:31 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:30 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:03 -!- eataix [~eataix@unaffiliated/eataix] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 12:54:17 maxm-: how would you identify dependencies between files? 12:55:34 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has joined #lisp 12:57:52 -!- erann is now known as erann-F1 12:59:15 That's why I have a single defsystem for all my libraries. (Well actually several for my sublibraries, but I keep a single repository and a global asdf system). 12:59:28 maxm-: otherwise, doesn't quickproject help? 13:00:30 pmai [~pmai@2001:470:1f15:3df:ad03:a680:4224:47d5] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 before i started using quickproject, i had an elisp bit that would make an .asd file for me based on all the *.lisp files in the directory. i had to reorder them to make it work, though. 13:01:41 yakov [~yakov@c-2ec2e489-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 13:02:35 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.70.211] has joined #lisp 13:03:28 *maxm-* have not used quickproject yet, nih syndrome I guess because I always used emacs template thingy anyway 13:04:34 luis: right now I use :serial t for small projects, and just put them in order of macros/utilities/rest 13:04:53 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.108] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:06:07 is there a command-line parsing library for cl that does not come with a manifesto and three separate manuals? 13:06:20 (that supports short and long, linux-style options) 13:06:42 investigate and put your comments on cliki for next guy 13:07:31 *maxm-* remembers there is "a bit of overkill" one, someone used it in google ants competition I think 13:07:47 that is the one with the manifestoo 13:08:10 "clon". i'm put off by the overengineering. 13:08:36 imho best documentation style, is perl-like, where you have SYNOPSIS on top, with 5-10 lines example of most common use case 13:08:39 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:12 -!- agumonke1 [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:14 publishing PDFs and texinfo output, on the other hand, is among the worst 13:09:44 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:10:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.126.38] has joined #lisp 13:10:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.126.38] has quit [Changing host] 13:10:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:10:20 the qitab one does look like being saner 13:12:26 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-30-62.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:47 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:42 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 13:16:23 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:16:31 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-109.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:20:06 -!- yakov [~yakov@c-2ec2e489-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:22:04 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:10 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:25:29 bitonic [~user@dyn900-109.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:28:13 cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-164-129.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:28:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has joined #lisp 13:29:37 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@c-3d42e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:29:46 maxm-: before I use asd, I put one package per file (one defpackage in each file), and added also-use-packages declations for packages I used in fully qualified symbols, so that I don't have to read the whole files, in the make-depends tool that scans them, and generate the asd file for me. http://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/trees/master/tools 13:30:19 Yay. git fetch-pr and git rebase-pr are pretty nice for github's pull requests. :) 13:31:01 yeah, the qitab one's cool. there is a cliki page already, and i think i don't want to decorate clon with "wtf this is overengineered crap with crappy documentation?" 13:31:49 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:32:41 Yuuhi [benni@p54839A1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:56 fe[nl]ix: around? 13:34:47 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:36:03 luis: yes 13:37:09 fe[nl]ix: any comments on ? 13:38:12 (particularly galdor's last two commits, regarding foreign-type-to-printf-specification 13:38:35 I'm going to test it with osicat, maybe I should try iolib as well. Should I use whatever quicklisp is shipping? 13:39:23 no 13:39:35 well, I should first merge the C++ groveler 13:39:44 then those commits will be mostly useless 13:39:54 well, until then... 13:40:00 clon has themes? Not sure if I've ever seen *that* feature in a command line parser. 13:40:08 gotta be pragmatic. :) 13:41:27 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.52.255.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 13:42:09 yeah, it's ok 13:42:34 fkk-dad [~fkk-dad@d54C18EE7.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:42:38 -!- fkk-dad [~fkk-dad@d54C18EE7.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 13:43:02 fe[nl]ix: seems to handle osicat fine. I'll push it now. Can you test with iolib when you have a chance? 13:43:03 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:43:59 iolib HEAD contains a fork of the C++ groveler currently 13:44:25 ah, well, doesn't matter then. 13:45:07 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0030f4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:17 ArmyOfBruce: yes, kind of over designed, it is. 13:48:24 Thra11 [~thrall@84.93.168.89] has joined #lisp 13:48:25 But it looks nice. 13:48:39 -!- davyzhu [~user@114.91.125.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:48:53 On the other hand, I think it hardcodes ANSI escape sequences, instead of going thru terminfo 13:49:04 or ncurses. 13:50:07 -!- elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:12 elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 13:54:13 fe[nl]ix: (:uint8 "\"%\"PRIu8") ; < this doesn't look right, aren't the quotes misplaced? 13:55:51 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 13:57:22 H4ns: at ILC 2010 Didier explained the history of clon, which explains (though imho does not justify) some of its nature 14:00:43 Does Nicolas Martyanoff hand around here? 14:00:58 luis: no, it's correct 14:01:28 Xach: still, it is an example where i would not be pleased when all command line option parsers would be merged into the "most mature" one. 14:01:51 Xach: i mean, there may be a place for a library that comes with a separate "end-user manual", but i'm not going to use it. 14:02:03 luis: PRxxx identifiers are preprocessor macros defined as strings, and the C compiler concatenates adjacent strings 14:02:15 luis: yes, i think so, though i'm not sure of the nickname 14:02:56 Ah, maybe it's galdor. 14:02:58 luis: I think he uses the same nickname as on github 14:03:01 yes 14:03:06 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-109.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:44 fe[nl]ix: oh, I see. this explain why he didn't use C-PRINTF. 14:05:36 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 14:05:55 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:46 teiresias [~teiresias@archlinux/trusteduser/teiresias] has joined #lisp 14:09:22 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 14:10:56 luis: hey 14:10:59 that would be me 14:11:32 H4ns: As I commented, I think it would be a good thing to have a "recommended" set of libraries for newbies, but it seems to me irrealist to depreciate duplicate libraries. 14:12:06 or deprecate, I'd rather mean. 14:12:07 pjb: thats my idea too, kind of dumbed down groveling wrapped into a macro that expands into defsystem and defpackage statements in .asd file 14:12:35 galdor: wondering about the PRIxxx thingies. Stelian's cleared that up for me. 14:12:40 my experience with duplicate libraries is that they all actually do different things :\ 14:13:03 maxm-: well, you can easily just process the defpackage forms and generate a defsystem from them. 14:13:12 pjb: because 99% of dependencies is a) macro need to be defined before its used b) class need to be defined before methods specializing on it c) deftype (same case as macro).. All can be handled by regexp searching *.lisp 14:13:13 As long as you don't use qualified symbols. 14:13:45 yes it will lead to false positives sometimes, but as long as it works 99% of the time, I'll be ok with it.. Because manually doing dependencies on large system, my success rate is way less then 99% 14:13:48 maxm-: well, 80% of the libraries are single file and don't even need that kind of dependencies. 14:14:09 single file gets tiresome to compile once it reaches 1000+lines or so 14:14:09 bitonic [~user@wavelan72.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:14:10 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:11 galdor: should we be including to use those? 14:14:31 On the other hand, on large systems, you need to actively manage (and put good order to) dependencies. 14:15:04 yep, they indeed are macros which expand to the right conversion specification, depending of the primitive type used for all fixed-size types; for example, on Linux 64 bit, "%"PRIi32 expands to "%d" 14:15:14 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:40 maxm-: well, that's a good question. Is it really so low as 1000 locs? I'd tend to think that compilation startup times are bigger, and that it's more efficient to compile bigger files than to open a lot of small files 14:15:48 galdor: seems they are part of C99, first time I come across them. 14:15:59 yep, it's C99 14:16:08 pjb: sbcl :-\ Still have not made jump to ccl for majority of my stuff, probably should.. 14:16:25 Yes, of course, it would depend on the compiler. 14:16:27 -!- Shrawny [~sean@ppp121-45-229-74.lns20.per1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:42 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 14:16:44 for inttypes.h, I didn't think about it; since it compiled without error, I thought it was already included 14:18:04 probably getting picked up via stdint.h or somesuch. Well, nevermind then. 14:18:07 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:18:39 urandom__ [~user@p548A240A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:39 galdor: ok, pushed. thanks! 14:20:01 better include inttypes directly 14:20:42 if it's currently included implicitly you might never know when that changes 14:21:20 OK, I'll add it. 14:23:43 -!- iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:22 fe[nl]ix: pushed. 14:24:52 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:21 Hmpf. Why did the fetch-pr command I was praising a minute ago stop working? 14:29:07 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:59 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 14:30:13 Is there any program similar to hlint for lisp? (hlint is a tool that is telling how to improve the code when coding in haskell) 14:32:07 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:23 Sorella__ [~quildreen@201-58-194-49.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:42:13 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 14:42:19 -!- Sorella_ [~quildreen@201-58-224-253.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:43:25 sellout42 [~Adium@64.25.231.230] has joined #lisp 14:45:56 p_nathan [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 14:47:56 add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-171-154.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:49:50 mrcarrot: I don't know if it's like hlint, but lisp-critic aims to do that 14:50:34 Xach: Is it possible to install through quicklisp? 14:50:38 dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-222-138.net.azartsat.pl] has joined #lisp 14:51:36 AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aazu149.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:51:56 mrcarrot: No. 14:52:28 Thanks 14:54:12 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54:25 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@ceg21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58:13 -!- erann-F1 is now known as erann 14:58:59 -!- fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 14:59:30 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 15:00:31 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:09:03 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 15:10:27 mrcarrot: there were several such programs, for pre-CL lisps. Unfortunately, AFAIK, they have never been ported/upgraded for Common Lisp. Still there's http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/exercises/critic.html and http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/Web/Groups/AI/lang/lisp/code/tools/lint/0.html 15:11:33 mrcarrot: this would certainly be a nice project, to write a modern such program, including critic about project organization, use of libraries, etc. 15:11:52 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@aazu149.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 15:13:22 -!- kmels_ [~kmels@p579D15A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:34 sorry, I cannot find this even though I searched: is it possible to get the c-code that ECL would generate out of a function? #'disassemble just shows the bytecode. 15:21:23 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:21:59 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:22:02 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 15:23:25 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:56 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:24:00 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 -!- leoncame` [~user@124.126.169.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:08 -!- Sorella__ is now known as Sorella 15:29:32 cddr [~user@108-89-212-211.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:35 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:40:38 pjb` [~t@vil93-14-88-184-74-97.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:51 -!- samebcha1e is now known as samebchase 15:43:05 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:07 -!- pjb [~t@vil93-14-88-184-74-97.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:38 -!- pjb` [~t@vil93-14-88-184-74-97.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 15:45:10 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:35 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:49:20 AeroNotix [~xeno@aazu149.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:51:51 -!- p_nathan [~anunknown@75.87.250.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:52:55 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:23 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:05 pjb [~t@vil93-14-88-184-74-97.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:00 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 16:02:49 hmm: now I know the existence of mk-defsystem. seems to me an useful tool. 16:04:13 pnpuff: Look for asdf instead. 16:06:43 ok: thanks moore33. 16:10:53 mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 16:10:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-78-118-138.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 16:10:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:11:13 any easy comparisons between sbcl and clozure-cl? 16:11:54 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.112.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:12:08 Has anyone acted on Fare's "call to consolidate"? 16:12:15 sabra: SBCL generates faster code, CCL smaller. SBCL is among slowest in compilation speed, CCL is much faster 16:12:22 sabra: Both are very good implementations. ccl is very well integrated with Mac OSX, if you care. 16:12:44 sabra: Both are well supported. 16:13:29 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.112.42] has joined #lisp 16:15:16 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:32 *push* sorry, I cannot find this even though I searched: is it possible to get the c-code that ECL would generate out of a function? #'disassemble just shows the bytecode. 16:15:38 cddr: As soon as some time is available. 16:15:57 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:16:04 schoppenhauer: are you using the C compiler? (require 'cmp) 16:16:23 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-79-217.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:16:25 schoppenhauer: otherwise, IIRC, it leaves the C sources in /tmp 16:17:23 schoppenhauer: please don't do that. 16:17:30 moore33: Aloha 16:17:36 pjb: what is cmp? 16:17:41 pkhuong: don't do what? 16:17:43 The compiler. 16:18:17 ecl has several compilers, by default, it's a byte code compiler. When you (require 'cmp), you get the compiler that targets C and calls gcc. 16:18:41 What do folks think about using cliki to document the results of #2 in the program. So more than just list "current recommended libraries", we could add "functional specs" for the various domains 16:18:42 sure.. i like ecl... 16:18:57 schoppenhauer: repeat your question. 16:19:07 dude, i couldn't find a proper tail-recursive definition of accumulate...... 16:19:23 lol 16:19:26 schoppenhauer: the documentation implies that disassemble should just show the C source. Have you loaded the to-c compiler in? 16:19:44 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:19:46 p_l: Thanks. 16:20:19 moore33:Thanks 16:20:27 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 16:20:47 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:21:05 pkhuong: sorry, it is usually ok to push questions when they are too far away in the backlog in most channels. will not do it here anymore. 16:21:49 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:22:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.215] has joined #lisp 16:23:09 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:10 pjb: (require 'cmp) (defun pluuu (x y) (+ x y)) (disassemble #'pluuu) returns bytecode 16:25:29 cddr: Faré started already at the ILC 16:25:35 schoppenhauer: DEFUN doesn't imply COMPILE 16:25:49 schoppenhauer: try to compile the function inbetween. 16:25:55 maybe you get a different error 16:26:07 cddr: and I'd like to consolidate the features of all test suite libraries into FiveAM 16:26:55 fe[nl]ix: there's one thing you can't incorporate into 5am that's part of RT :-) 16:27:00 including 'lightweight single-file distribution'? 16:27:01 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:11 fe[nl]ix: simplicity. 16:27:27 simplicity is doable. 16:28:13 ehu: ;;; Warning: Cannot disassemble the binary function # because I do not have its source code. 16:28:17 ehu: what simplicity ? with RT every project has to fork because RT has only one implicit global test suite 16:28:32 I wouldn't call simplicity 16:28:56 schoppenhauer: pass a lambda form, e.g. '(lambda (x y) (+ x y)). 16:28:58 ehu: but a temp-file is hopefully there 16:29:03 sykopomp: hi! could you contact drewc and tell him what's required to migrate lisppaste to its own VM? 16:29:22 pkhuong: thanks, works. 16:30:08 fe[nl]ix: from a per-project point of view, that's not a problem. 16:30:09 ehu: am I the only one with his contact info or something? 16:30:29 sykopomp: no, you're the only one who recently changed lisppaste. 16:30:41 ehu: you've got the wrong person :( 16:30:47 ah. 16:30:48 ok. 16:30:58 hmm. then it must be stassats. 16:31:07 sorry about the confusion. 16:31:12 So what (non-controversial) features are missing from FiveAM? 16:31:18 stassats sounds like a likely candidate for this, yes. 16:31:57 qNemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has joined #lisp 16:32:33 which could be a "recommended" set of libraries for newbies?? (maybe to experiment with it) thanks a lot... 16:32:59 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:33:15 pnpuff: the libraries you need :-) 16:33:17 pnpuff: What's your area of interest? 16:33:26 somewere there is simply a list? 16:33:55 pnpuff: quicklisp has most libraries newbies would need, I presume. 16:34:18 I would learn to manage libraries by myself. 16:34:22 you could take a look at the recently-released lisst of popular libraries in QL (many of them pulled as dependencies) http://blog.quicklisp.org/2012/11/download-stats-for-october-2012.html 16:35:39 ah! didn't realize FiveAM already did quickcheck 16:36:16 *luis* is partial to Stefil 16:37:47 sykopomp: but if you want fiveam to rule, maybe my recent feedback helps to improve it. As a current non-user, I wasn't really interested in learning FiveAM, but one of the libraries which use it as their test suite were not running on ABCL. As a result, I had to learn how to start a test suite. I wasn't able to find out from the fiveam pages nor from the library. 16:37:52 so, 16:38:28 it'd help to list a cookbook recipe to show users of users how to use pre-defined test sets. 16:39:22 does fiveam do that thing where you can easily mock internal functions? 16:39:35 ehu: http://common-lisp.net/projects/fiveam/docs/Running_0020Tests.html 16:39:48 fe[nl]ix: sorry to mix it all up again :-/ 16:39:48 that clojure library midje does something of the sort, which is handy. You don't need to create a whole interface and write a mock object just to test. 16:40:19 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 Quadrescence: _if_ it's possible could you do a link to the code you've written for dependency tracking? -thanks a lot- 16:41:59 https://github.com/marick/Midje/wiki/Metaconstants ah, that's what they call them. 16:42:22 sykopomp: what thing ? 16:42:49 fe[nl]ix: ok. there's something there, but the kind of thing I'm referring to is something like (1) listing defined suites; (2) running a or all suites; (3) listing results; (4) debugging test cases, where supported 16:42:51 fe[nl]ix: you can basically provide inline mock eval results when writing tests that override internal function definitions only in that scope. 16:43:07 sykopomp: in CL it's a bit risky to do that because the function may have been inlined 16:43:11 -!- sellout42 [~Adium@64.25.231.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:31 fe[nl]ix: I'd rather have something with this feature that reminds me of the caveats than not have it at all. 16:43:35 and the only way to do it is to (setf fdefinition) before and after, wrapped in an UWP 16:43:44 yes 16:43:51 ok, I can add that 16:43:58 that's what you need to do, and I believe clojure does something similar. 16:44:05 well, that was easy :) 16:44:22 :-) 16:44:38 ehu: ok, I'll add more introspection 16:45:09 currently one has to rely on best practices, i.e. the main suite has the same name as the library 16:45:31 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:46:03 cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:47:14 has FiveAm changed post the eos fork? 16:47:31 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:47:31 yes 16:48:20 jewel [~jewel@105.237.24.33] has joined #lisp 16:48:21 got rid of arnesi plus some bugfixes and few new features 16:49:34 -!- cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:51 cornihilio [~cornihili@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:51:12 fe[nl]ix: The introspection should be easy. Unless you're planning on doing it very soon, I'll have a shot and send you a pull request 16:51:50 cddr: excellent 16:52:29 NaCl [~NaCl@unaffilated/nacl/x-827312] has joined #lisp 16:57:48 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.226] has joined #lisp 16:59:04 Guest57845 [~StackOwne@54.Red-81-44-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 17:04:24 Xach: Does quicklisp somehow support a quick description for the libraries included? 17:05:04 sykopomp: could be interesting representing dependencies by means of a direct graph. the list you linked to me: http://blog.quicklisp.org/2012_11_01_archive.html it's indeed a good thing but I think should be at least graphed. 17:05:08 Xach: It would for example be nice to include a max. one sentence description of the libraries in the library download statistics 17:05:25 also, like H4ns rightly sayd it does not consider what systems are loaded as a dependency of another system. 17:06:34 I'm reading style stuff 17:06:48 but I want to get some direct feedback about a couple of lines of my specific code 17:08:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:08:05 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133541 17:08:35 going through style guides 17:08:38 found "Avoid writing huge case or cond statements. Consider other strategies such as data-driven programming or hash-tables. " 17:08:42 dunno if that counts or not haha :( 17:09:44 bc1: the bad indentation with tabs is a bit distracting. 17:10:37 bc1: what editor are you using? 17:10:46 oh, it probably doesn't help that I'm just writing this in nano basically, and yes I know I should use emacs 17:11:30 I'm super familiar with nano and all its shortcuts, so it's just natural for me... I haven't used emacs in a decade probably 17:12:10 pnpuff: iiuc, Xach's worked on graphing dependencies before. I want to say that he's commented on how he can't get the graph to be usable from how much data there is. 17:12:10 but if I fix the tabs 17:12:25 is it wrong to just chuck everything in one line like that for the cond? 17:12:41 I mean, it's just one big function, no multiple lines or anything 17:13:44 and someone mentioned using if instead of cond for this too 17:13:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:14:23 sykopomp: you're right. seems to me be easier do a map of an human genome. 17:14:41 bc1: if you have only the positive case, use when 17:14:48 if you only have the negative case, use unless 17:14:56 if you have both positive and negative, use if 17:15:00 ikki [~ikki@187.193.191.166] has joined #lisp 17:15:06 if you have more than one case, use cond 17:15:08 bc1: I would probably put each argument to append on its own line 17:15:43 ok thanks, both of you :) 17:15:58 bc1: also, what's that let for? 17:16:02 pnpuff: the map of the genome and the map of the libraries are both easy. It's the map of the dependencies between the various genome elements and the libraries that are tough. 17:16:03 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.24.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:16:27 hmmmmm 17:16:56 let me think of if I can get rid of it 17:17:24 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:47 slyrus: sure, HGP it's only a joke! 17:17:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 17:18:08 yeah, for some reason I came up with this way of writing functions (I have a lot of similar functions to this) but I guess you're right 17:18:09 I don't need it 17:19:20 yay :) 17:20:05 ehu: I don't understand #2, and #3 of your fiveam requirements above. Can't you do this already? 17:20:50 -!- erann [~erann@24.Red-83-61-36.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Error: protocol HTCPCP unsupported] 17:21:40 ah, and I got the unless thing in there now 17:22:02 i.e. (run :it.bese.fiveam) runs the suite of that name and returns a list of the results 17:23:59 Xach: Did I ever get added to Planet Lisp? 17:24:04 Just curious. :) 17:27:43 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 17:28:30 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 17:30:15 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:31:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:33:48 deech [~user@108.209.156.206] has joined #lisp 17:34:38 marijn` [~user@p5DDB3D36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:41 join #nginx 17:35:29 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:36:49 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-010-134.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:17 cddr: sure you can, just if you're simply passing by, it'd be handy to have instructions on the webpage for those not yet ready to learn all of fiveAM, but instead require single-shot use. 17:39:14 (having that recipe might have inspired me to use it in other software, actually, because I *do* see there's a case to be made NOT to use RT. 17:39:15 ) 17:40:19 -!- asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:41:43 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:55 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:09 ah ok. thanks 17:42:19 - 17:43:51 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.36.214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:21 so for debugging test cases, how about providing an "edit-definition" restart for each symbol that is both in the test form, and in the package being tested? 17:50:09 cddr: why ? 17:50:44 so that when a test fails, you can easily fix it 17:50:56 or rather the underlying cause of the failure 17:51:21 hmm: I have tho version of cl+ssl-2012****-git in my ".../quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/ directory" ... could I safely remove manually the older of these ? Ihave to do anything else to solve my hunchentoot `loading' problem? thanks for any useful reply. 17:51:30 :s/tho/two/ 17:54:46 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has joined #lisp 17:57:47 cddr: that's too impractical, a test form could have a lot of symbols 17:58:17 but one could add a restart that goes to the source definition of the test 17:58:29 it's a nice use case for the restart :test 17:59:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 18:00:04 ok ... now work! (after I've removed the older) 18:02:11 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-017-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:02:26 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:10 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:57 fms [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:27 -!- mrcarrot is now known as lasse` 18:07:21 -!- lasse` is now known as lasse 18:08:31 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:46 -!- lasse is now known as mrcarrot 18:09:12 -!- Thra11 [~thrall@84.93.168.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:45 -!- Guest57845 [~StackOwne@54.Red-81-44-222.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 18:10:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:17:26 -!- thethomaseffect [~thethomas@109.255.215.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:18:10 bc1: I strongly recommend you to use emacs / slime to write lisp code. Here you may find useful info here: http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started . Enjoy yourself with emacs! 18:18:26 :s/here// 18:21:07 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:21:27 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:22:12 thethomaseffect [~thethomas@109.255.215.132] has joined #lisp 18:22:18 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:27:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has joined #lisp 18:32:39 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 18:33:54 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 18:34:45 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:36:48 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:47:59 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:33 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 18:52:48 leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-95-44.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 18:53:18 !CIAOù 18:54:43 -!- leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-95-44.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has left #lisp 18:55:52 leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-95-44.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 18:56:54 -!- leonida64 [~alex1964@net-93-145-95-44.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has left #lisp 18:59:54 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:59:59 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:03:13 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:34 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:05:34 erann [~erann@240.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:03 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:07:10 -!- marijn` [~user@p5DDB3D36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:07:14 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:08:05 hi 19:08:45 snearch [~snearch@f053006242.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:52 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-010-134.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:57 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:09:37 Hi! 19:13:20 hi 19:13:26 how are you? 19:14:36 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:15:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:54 hi Posterdati ! 19:18:36 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-193-196.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-171-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:24:05 pnpuff: hi 19:24:14 :-) 19:24:30 Daisy: chain? 19:24:42 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:24:50 ? 19:26:19 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:27:14 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:23 clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:34:15 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:37:02 Posterdati: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133543 19:37:09 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:37:39 pjb: :) 19:37:57 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:01 pjb: tx 19:40:16 Jubb [~ghost@pool-96-241-84-33.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.191.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:42:17 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-125-64.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:21 det [~chris@ip68-224-9-145.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:26 ?CIAOù 19:47:40 -!- clariprincess1 [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:43 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 19:48:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-125-64.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:53:33 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 19:53:49 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: .] 19:58:09 Posterdati: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133543#1 19:58:31 vlion [~vlion@66-87-113-170.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:39 pjb: what about that last? 19:58:59 Posterdati: honestly, neither API feels quite good. Mine has the excuse of being one of the first code I wrote in CL 19:59:08 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.24.155] has joined #lisp 19:59:12 lol 19:59:46 Explore the packages, there are more methods, you can do things to the graph objects, etc. 20:02:27 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@58.165.184.176] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 20:02:30 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:42 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 20:08:12 Posterdati: that last one was with cl-graph instead. 20:08:24 pk 20:11:53 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:11:56 ok 20:12:42 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:14:23 -!- vlion [~vlion@66-87-113-170.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:16:08 -!- det [~chris@ip68-224-9-145.lv.lv.cox.net] has left #lisp 20:19:01 bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:56 -!- bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 20:20:06 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:20:43 -!- deech [~user@108.209.156.206] has left #lisp 20:21:53 bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:32 -!- bracx [~bracx@d118-75-192-154.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 20:24:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:25:32 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:27:26 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:27:53 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:29:52 complain time 20:30:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:40:16 -!- MikeSeth [~me@unaffiliated/mikeseth] has left #lisp 20:40:35 is there a lib that wraps "fam" on linux? 20:45:48 JuniperJaxx [joejaxx@fluxbuntu/founder/joejaxx] has joined #lisp 20:45:54 -!- JuniperJaxx [joejaxx@fluxbuntu/founder/joejaxx] has left #lisp 20:47:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@105.237.24.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:25 hmm whats the difference between cffi grovel and iolib grovel? one of them better then the other? 20:48:38 francogrex [~user@109.130.109.111] has joined #lisp 20:48:47 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ The Gnu moved back to savannah ~] 20:49:05 is there someone here who cares enough to do a CL answer to http://himmele.blogspot.de/2012/11/concurrent-hello-world-in-go-erlang.html, possibly using lparallel, maybe using chanl, or something else? :-) 20:49:05 -!- erann [~erann@240.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: erann] 20:50:39 erann [~erann@240.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:01 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:52:10 -!- nicdev` is now known as nicdev 20:54:48 -!- dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-222-138.net.azartsat.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:57:03 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-35-150.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:02 maxm-: Stelian plans to merge iolib's groveller back into cffi at some point. 20:59:03 the engine was bright, shiny, with lots of parts almost like a real one, except it did not work <- cffi-grovel with grovel file of (include "fam.h") produces empty file 20:59:35 maxm-: hmm, cffi-grovel does not do what you think it does. 20:59:43 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 21:00:10 ok, then I'm an idiot.. thought it parses C header, and produces cffi definitions to call the prototype functions declared therein 21:01:01 well anyway, I'll do it manually.. fam.h has like 5 functions, and it uses opaque structure.. Thought I'll give groveling a whirl on a simple library first, before trying to use it on more complicated stuff 21:01:01 -!- sabra [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:01:02 maxm-: you're looking for SWIG or Verrazano. But if fam is not too big, I'd just do it by hand. 21:01:38 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:11 swig works nicely enough. 21:03:33 fe[nl]ix: any chance you want to include FAM into iolib? seems its rightful place.. You already compile the C compat layer anyway 21:04:48 rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 21:05:35 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 21:05:55 maxm-: here's an example grovel file: http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/osicat/osicat.git;a=blob;f=posix/unixint.lisp;h=9b156106c299ec48a7af0a7f14bcd69aab8ad148;hb=HEAD;js=1 21:06:32 -!- malaparte [~malaparte@5.34.241.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:36 How do I avoid package issues when using S-XML? For instance, (find '|soap|:|action| wsdl-dom) causes a compilation error. 21:06:41 pjb: do you recall that application we talk about brain simulation? 21:07:14 maxm-: basically the groveller builds a C program that'll determine the value of a bunch of constants (and other similarly simple things) and spit a lisp file with those values. 21:07:27 ah ok 21:08:12 maxm-: it doesn't parse header files or anything like that. 21:08:15 *maxm-* had thought it was more sophisticated/swig-like 21:08:45 maxm-: it's useful for scenarios where the values of these constants vary across platforms. 21:10:35 -!- cddr [~user@108-89-212-211.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:12 Posterdati: Act-r ? There are several other neurons or brain simulations. 21:11:21 ah yes 21:11:22 tx 21:11:47 -!- erann [~erann@240.Red-79-146-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:13:55 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:15:11 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:19 -!- qNemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:16:41 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:16:54 erann [~erann@214.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:54 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan72.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:29 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:22 conan_c [~conan@ool-18bd3ad7.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:21 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 21:20:51 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has joined #lisp 21:21:03 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21:04 yakov [~yakov@c-2ec247ea-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 21:21:17 -!- Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:09 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-171-154.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:22:34 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:22 -!- conan_c [~conan@ool-18bd3ad7.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 21:24:30 Xach, is there a way to uninstall quicklisp package? 21:27:37 oh, found :) 21:27:54 i could not thought it would be so obvious 21:28:45 last time i needed it there was no uninstall if my memory with me :) 21:29:35 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:30:10 BTW, uninstall does not purge fasls which is not what would be expected ;-) 21:30:44 clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has joined #lisp 21:30:57 -!- rdqfdx [~rdqfdx@78.90.88.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:56 -!- fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 21:34:33 fsvehla [~Fullmoon@h081217030118.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:34:47 bitonic [~user@wavelan72.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:35:55 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 21:38:40 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:23 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:40:28 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:41:56 hi, I thought I used :shadowing-import-from #:postmodern #:connect-toplevel, I can call my function connect-toplevel in my package 21:42:06 it does not seem to be the case though 21:42:10 what am I not understanding? 21:43:49 use :shadow if you want to have your own version in your package 21:44:04 mal_: let me try 21:45:09 thanks, that was it 21:50:28 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 21:52:11 bah, "man fam" and fam.h disagree.. Going with fam.h 21:52:39 man fam says FAMEvent is structure has hostanme[MAXHOSTNAMELEN], and fam.h says its char *hostname 21:52:39 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for fam says FAMEvent is structure has hostanme[MAXHOSTNAMELEN], and fam.h says its char *hostname. 21:53:57 -!- rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:14 mmm, if indenting in Emacs looks strange to me, not the same as in Elisp 21:56:17 is that intended? 21:56:42 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan72.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:15 dim: yes. the rule for elisp is different because its IF has an implicit progn 21:57:34 true, still looks odd in CL when you're used to Elisp... 21:57:57 Elisp's IF looks odd to me. 21:58:04 if in elisp is intended like prog1 and I think it makes sense even without the implicit progn 21:58:06 fair enough 21:58:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.109.111] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:00:44 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:19 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-232.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:01:42 ok so I have a 23 lines long CL program using lparallel that does the same thing as in that concurrent hello world article --- I don't like the Go syntax 22:02:48 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:11:17 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:11:51 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.24.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:16:58 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:17:57 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@200.84.67.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:20:28 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:21:47 *maxm-* figured out the groveler, thanks luis, example you provided was very useful 22:22:40 have to use the groveler of their stupid structure depends on PATH_MAX and such, which probably can be different in diff linuxes or whatever else has fam 22:26:27 PATH_MAX is ridiculously small on Windows 22:26:38 -!- yakov [~yakov@c-2ec247ea-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:44 is there a standard lock to take when using format concurrently? 22:27:13 dim: what do you mean "standard lock"? 22:27:29 is the :system-depends-on (:cffi-grovel) ok in the .asd file? Or I still have to use load-op on top as in the cffi-grovel section of the manual 22:27:29 covered in the standard rather than in bordeaux-thread etc 22:27:58 dim: the standard has no locks at all. 22:29:01 see http://paste.lisp.org/display/133544 for some context 22:29:33 maxm-: last time I checked system-depends-on doesn't work because you need cffi-grovel loaded when *reading* the system definition. 22:29:56 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:04 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:17 ok stupid newbie question... 22:30:48 dim: I know ACL's streams have associated locks, no clue about other Lisps. 22:30:53 say I have one list (a d f) and another list (a b c d e f g) 22:31:04 is there a simple way to remove all elements from the first list from the second list? 22:31:38 bc1: set-difference. 22:31:40 ahhhhhhh 22:31:45 If the lists are sets. 22:31:47 I was looking up subtract 22:31:51 they are 22:31:52 thanks 22:33:23 luis: here I'm using CCL 22:33:35 and the extra ~% is worrying 22:33:55 maybe lparallel.queue is broken on CCL, maybe it's related to SLIME? 22:34:09 dim: read the implementation notes; CCL has something like thread-local streams, iirc. 22:34:20 dim: so use a lock. 22:34:36 I don't have sbcl to try it here... maybe in that VM 22:34:41 by default, that is. There are options for various locking strategies when creating streams. 22:35:47 so once again it started simple and gets quite involved? mmm 22:35:59 I mean I didn't create the standard-out stream 22:38:41 bitonic [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:54 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0030f4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:48:08 sbcl in squeeze doesn't allow me compile lparallel (Symbol "WORD" not found in the SB-EXT package.) 22:51:49 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:35 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 22:54:44 dim: squeeze has old stuff. 22:55:47 how easy it is to backport sbcl oneself? apt-get build-dep + apt-source -b? 22:56:23 just install a binary from sbcl.org, or download the source and read the instructions. 22:57:39 well the build-dep did run fine, backporting in progress 22:58:05 apt-get source -b sbcl == compile from source and make a debian package 22:58:45 the trick is to replace squeeze by sid in your sources.list for the deb-src entry, and then you're backporting 23:01:52 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:02:36 SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:49 -!- SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 23:02:53 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:02:57 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:08:52 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:09:12 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:09:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-31-93.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:56 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:22 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:17:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:03 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aazu149.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 23:20:53 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21:19 it looks like the test suite took even more time to run that the compiling itself, but apparently it's getting done now ;) 23:22:14 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:23:24 ok same problem 23:23:27 CL-USER> (go-hello-world:hello-world 12) 23:23:27 Hello 23:23:27 World! 23:23:27 Hello World! 23:23:29 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:23:36 I won't paste the next ones, they are all ok 23:24:02 it's not a CCL problem then, maybe a lparallel problem, most probably a problem in my own 20 lines of code... 23:24:36 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:24:45 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:26:48 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.52.255.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:27:02 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:20 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-226-045.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:27:51 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.52.255.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 23:29:32 greetings lispers, GREEN-THREADS, the lightweight threading library I've been building is pretty much feature complete. For those who might be interested: https://github.com/deliciousrobots/green-threads 23:35:32 dim: you're accessing the stream from several threads simultaneously. you need a lock around it. 23:35:55 that was my question earlier 23:36:03 which lock? is that standard? 23:36:36 I guess now it's something I might revisit another time later this week 23:36:54 starx [~masta@31.45.205.22] has joined #lisp 23:37:57 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A240A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:38:20 Thra11 [~thrall@87.115.113.147] has joined #lisp 23:38:20 the thing is that the way I understand lparallel and lparallel.queue, I shouldn't need a lock here, as both threads should never be doing that format call at the same time 23:38:36 the messaging scheme here should be enough to prevent that 23:38:40 dim: you're right, I didn't read your example carefully. 23:39:22 and I have the "bug" (whomever it is) in both CCL/macosx and SBCL/debian 23:39:55 and sbcl 1.0.57.0 at that... 23:39:59 well, good night 23:41:12 wizard` [~user@eth900.qld.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:13 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-234-73-89.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:03 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 23:43:33 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:46:42 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-203-9.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:50:14 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:19 does the clhs address this behavior? http://paste.lisp.org/display/133546 23:51:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:52:12 -!- starx [~masta@31.45.205.22] has quit [Quit: quit] 23:52:28 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:17 dim: just noticed your paste and the log. Streams are buffered. Try finish-output. 23:59:15 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.74.72] has joined #lisp