00:00:19 drewc: these little snippets on how you do things are interesting. you seem to have setup a very comforting environment 00:00:23 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 00:00:58 Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:01:06 -!- Khisanth is now known as Guest31432 00:01:48 -!- Guest31432 is now known as Khisanth 00:02:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:03:08 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-144-74.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:03:53 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 00:04:21 -!- catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-144-74.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:15 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13EF40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05:54 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:07:02 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.207.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:21 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.151] has joined #lisp 00:08:10 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@gateway/tor-sasl/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:08:33 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 00:12:00 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:12:21 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-251-50.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:13:05 spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 00:14:41 bitonic` [~user@host86-138-97-15.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:44 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-97-15.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:16:11 -!- cryptic [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:16:20 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:17:51 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:18:58 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 00:19:12 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:03 madnificent: well, working as a CL developer for the last 8 years or so has made me make sure that my env is proper and comfortable, for me. Most of the things I have done are related to issues that I have, and since I code CL for 6-18 hrs every day, comfort is important, and fixing the 'issues' doubly so/ 00:20:07 . 00:21:16 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-184-36-173-69.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:42 anyone use cl-plplot? 00:22:33 -!- spiderweb [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:22:34 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:59 cryptic [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:21 jasom: stability is probably the real reason why no telco will deploy an Oracle-backed product in anything smaller than HA cluster ;) 00:24:52 heh ... the last time I had to deal with oracle was lisp-related! I added UTF-8 to the C program that CL connected to with a socket to talk to oracle... that was 2007 or so. 00:24:56 superflit_ [~superflit@75-171-201-253.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:25 drewc: I'm unfortunately starting an utterly lisp-less job where the database is Oracle 00:25:28 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:17 there's another project that might result in a bit of using sensible high-level languages, but it's uncertain 00:27:38 -!- superflit [~superflit@216-160-139-130.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:27:38 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:27:42 well, I can recommend learning SQL and oracles version of pl/pgsql, whatever it is called. , before chosing an unrelated high level lang ;) 00:28:46 drewc: no-one is planning on touching the PL/SQL stored procedures, afaik. No one gets them, either ;) 00:29:00 (maybe DBA can grok that code... :D) 00:29:20 but the other project is basically startupping on the side 00:29:38 wonder if anyone has bothered embedding ecl into postgres yet (: 00:29:44 lisp stored procs that would be neat (: 00:30:49 drewc: that's exactly why i like them 00:30:55 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:32:37 antifuchs: I did so like 2005 or so... before I realized that lisp was not made for CREATE FUNCTIONs at all :) 00:33:33 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:33:53 drewc: well, there are tons more supported languages now. 00:34:07 (stored procs in js? check) 00:34:09 mainly because there are very few lispers who are also postgresql experts, and since I know/have worked with one of the postgresql developers, well ... I do not mind PG experts at all :) 00:34:19 s/are/were/ I think (: 00:34:45 I'd consider postmodern a revival of postgres in the lisp world (: 00:36:03 yup .. we use it so much that we know everything that is wrong with it, which is a lot, but s-sql is pretty good and the rest can be 'fixed' :) 00:36:24 heh 00:37:42 and, heh, (:raw ...) works , and S-SQL:SQL-COMPILE is there, so yeah, not so bad at all. 00:39:22 (I prefer to write raw sql to s-expressioned sql tbh) 00:39:33 grep -ir postmodern ./ |wc -l 00:39:36 281 00:40:28 well, the thnig that I like about s-sql is the fact that I do not forget the syntax very often. 00:40:44 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:47 -!- bitonic` [~user@host86-138-97-15.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:06 that said, raw sql vs sexp, I do not mind sql and do not mind sexps, so it really depends. 00:41:34 heh, yeah. I like "it depends" as an answer (: 00:41:47 SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:05 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:42:12 sohail [~Adium@69-196-172-113.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:13 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-196-172-113.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:42:13 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:42:22 -!- brown` [user@nat/google/x-fiftkqhksymmwfhy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:42:23 -!- SexKitten [~Oddity@d75-156-92-175.bchsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 00:42:27 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:42:44 hell, last week i did probably over 350 lines of raw SQL code, and not a single bit of sexps, so how can I say I prefer s-sql over STRING :) 00:45:03 it seems to me that any time i"ve done significant amounts of db work, I end up having to generate SQL a lot. s-sql is much nicer for composing funny things than raw sql :\ 00:45:04 haha, sounds like you're going the quantified self route (: 00:45:53 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:45:59 we also have thousands of lines of pl/pgsql at work, which makes me die a little inside every time I see it. 00:46:03 sykopomp: heh ... I feel/know the exact opposite :) 00:46:32 *drewc* has very few lines of pl/pgsql, but when he does it is needed 00:47:04 we had a macro-ified 50-join-or-so query at a previous place I was at. 00:47:17 for example the HSTORE trigger thingies is one where pl/pgsql is required. 00:47:17 :< 00:49:47 yikes... I am glad that I usually am a part of the design of databases, and beyond that, would _never_ have more then say 5 joins per SELECT ... CREATE TEMPORARY TABLE, WITH and WITH RECURSIVE are how to avoid that issue, imo 00:50:33 it was necessary 00:51:00 that query created the big rollup table that we did much simpler queries off of. 00:51:39 *sykopomp* is probably exaggerating the number of joins, but remembers the query being about 2+ pages of s-sql. 00:51:50 well, without seeing the code itself, WITH can get rid of that 50 joins things in a single select, so exactly what was needed? 00:51:54 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:58 bitonic`` [~user@host86-138-97-15.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:02 oh .. heh .. lispers doing sql. nm. 00:52:15 :P 00:52:20 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:52:28 I actually like writing raw SQL just fine. 00:52:31 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:52:49 when I code Lisp, I like s-sql because I get to use paredit, and actually doing weird metaprogramming isn't that common at all. 00:52:52 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:06 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:17 the Erlang counterpart to s-sql seems like an abomination with funny dependencies, though, so I haven't touched it. 00:53:18 I just hate the single quote thing when going back and forth between lisp and sql ... 00:53:33 'string' vs "string" ... ugh 00:53:34 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:53:58 irrelevant in most cases, since you should be using $1/?/whatever your library uses. 00:54:01 ;) 00:54:22 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 00:54:31 select * from message where message_type = 00:54:46 'offer' .... damn! :) 00:54:46 select * from message where message_type = $1 00:55:00 select * is naughty, drewc 00:55:03 tisk tisk 00:55:05 :) 00:55:14 true dat :) 00:56:47 *sykopomp* is off to do unimportant things. 00:57:01 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 00:57:12 *drewc* will now mention that the function I wrote last week has a $10 .. 10 args ... ugh 00:57:25 s/I/he .. or whatever 00:57:49 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:57:49 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:31 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:59:46 -!- yan_ [~yan@64.22.109.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:34 yan_ [~yan@64.22.109.95] has joined #lisp 01:01:16 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:01:29 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 01:05:17 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:05:31 AntiSpamMeta 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[~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:56:22 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-131-126.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:57:01 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:04:58 benny [~user@i577A735F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:07:18 -!- booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:35 frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 05:08:41 how can i find out how many arguments a function takes? 05:14:17 PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-55.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 05:15:17 in sbcl you can use (sb-introspect:function-lambda-list #'function) 05:15:58 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:15:59 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.51] has joined #lisp 05:16:07 though the best way is simply to use slime and let autocompletion figure it out 05:17:06 no portable way? i wanted to do it programatically 05:17:11 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:18:13 frx, FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION exists portably, but there's no guarantee it'll be able to return the information you want 05:18:30 frx: implementations are allowed to not keep track of that information. 05:18:37 implementations may choose to throw away information like lambda lists after being compiled 05:19:52 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:22:34 faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has joined #lisp 05:23:21 function-lambda-expression didn't work. swank-backend:arglist did though. :) 05:25:31 paste.list.org is still down? Or did it ever come back from the Friday downtime? 05:30:06 -!- GrayMagiker [~Steve@c-76-113-10-226.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:32:12 another Sandy victim? :| 05:34:51 sykopomp: Dunno. I know that paste.lisp.org was down at the end of last week, presumably from the Friday "traffic surge" in N. America (never did follow that one up). And now, paste.lisp.org is down. The question is: "still" or "again"? 05:35:42 cryptic- [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:12 -!- cryptic [~cryptic@pool-96-246-91-191.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:36:13 -!- cryptic- is now known as cryptic 05:37:07 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:38:31 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 05:44:07 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 05:50:13 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 06:01:31 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.170.37.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:05:18 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 06:08:17 paul0 [~paulo@189.101.192.153] has joined #lisp 06:08:42 fa 06:08:47 yikes 06:08:55 wrong window :) 06:10:16 jewel [~jewel@105-236-190-2.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:13:15 -!- fantazo 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08:03:14 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@220.Red-79-148-146.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:03:33 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:04:31 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:04:47 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 08:07:40 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:34 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@static-217-133-17-91.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:15:00 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:24 My memory must be slipping away.... In CL, how does one escape the newline in a string so that the newline doesn't appear in the result i.e., write a long string on multiple lines? 08:21:14 ferada [~ferada@dslb-188-107-047-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:45 moore33: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_cic.htm 08:22:19 Does anyone have an opinion about "ANSI Common Lisp" by Graham? I noticed that it is a book with exercises. 08:22:48 guaqua:Thanks, but that is only in FORMAT. 08:22:58 -!- trigen [~MSX@devvers.tweaknet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-142.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:23:40 mrcarrot: it's an ok introduction. graham has a few non mainstream opinions about CL. 08:23:58 moore33: strings as such do not have such mechanisms in CL 08:24:41 mal_: Is it possible to give short explanation of what he differs with? 08:24:52 you can bake a reader macro for that 08:25:00 (and there are probably a few already) 08:25:22 mrcarrot: he's not a big fan of LOOP or CLOS. his style is more scheme like. 08:25:49 yangzhiwei [~yang@49.83.69.172] has joined #lisp 08:26:28 jdz: I'm guessing you are right, though I thought I remembered something. I want to write the doc string for a class slot without the newline introduced by the editor for formatting, and I was trying to avoid having a long line in the source. Oh well. Thanks but no thanks for the reader macro suggestions! 08:26:47 no prob :) 08:26:47 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:16 mal_: With more "scheme like", does it mean that he is using more functional programming, or what do you mean with it? 08:27:21 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:45 mrcarrot: He's big on tail recursion, which is not so ideomatic in the CL world. 08:28:20 mal_: yes, and things like more Lisp-1 style. it's a small detail but naming his parameter lst when he could just as well use list in CL 08:30:56 -!- yangzhiwei [~yang@49.83.69.172] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:34:35 trebor_dki [~user@kvpn.lbf.fraunhofer.de] has joined #lisp 08:34:36 moore33: you could also use read time evaluation instead of a custom read macro, e.g. #.(format nil ...) in place of the docstring 08:35:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:35:18 Vivitron:Cool idea. 08:35:59 moore33: and that does not count as a reader macro? 08:37:28 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 08:37:56 jdz: Sure, and I don't think I'll use Vivitron's suggestion. When guaqua mentioned reader macros, I was thinking more of a custom macro character for parsing strings. 08:38:02 Well, it's not introducing a new one -- I assume he's alreadying using #\' and #\( &c 08:40:19 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A532.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:24 moore33: btw, what's the problem with newlines in docstrings? every other code has them. 08:43:00 I've considered this before myself because it's convenient for me to have docstrings formatted at a similar width to my code, but default indentation of slot docstrings makes it awkward to get that without line-wrapping in the code 08:44:14 Vivitron: line wrapping in code or in docstrings? 08:45:30 jdz: to get 70 or 80 chars for a line in the slot docstring would result in a longer line in the code with the code formatted as desired 08:45:53 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:46:34 Vivitron: so the docstring has a newline in there. docstrings usually are longer than that, right? 08:47:55 kmels [~kmels@p5B13F641.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:44 _paul0 [~paulo@177.132.101.250] has joined #lisp 08:49:04 jdz: I like the first line of the docstring to be a self-contained summary of the item. It's a minor nit, really, and I never used the #.(format nil ...) trick myself 08:49:10 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-184-36-173-69.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 08:49:20 is there any ide equivalent to netbeans for common lisp? 08:50:16 -!- renard_ [~renard@2a01:e0b:1:150:ca0a:a9ff:fef1:a847] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:50:22 blbef: no, but there is a superior environment. 08:50:32 renard_ [~renard@2a01:e0b:1:150:ca0a:a9ff:fef1:a847] has joined #lisp 08:51:11 I believe there exist CL plugins for eclipse if you're not going the emacs route 08:51:11 blbef: superior because it is called "The Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs" 08:51:24 -!- paul0 [~paulo@177.41.243.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:51:54 never mind the real origin of that word in there 08:53:43 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:07 jdz, so slime is better than netbeans? 08:54:36 blbef: for many values of "better", yes 08:55:21 blbef: for starters, using slime implies using a real editor 08:55:32 to use slime effectively, you need to learn emacs. if you are against learning, that is bad. if you are for learning and would like to not learn a new ide every 5 years, that is good 08:56:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:57:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:57:56 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 08:58:13 thats completely my intention 08:59:09 blbef: programming lisp is very interactive, usually writing/trying one defining form at a time 09:00:29 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:03:14 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:03:37 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:04:05 blbef: it's less graphical, but it doesn't tend to get in your way as much. much of why slime is better is, imho, emacs being a superior editor. similar to vim, it offers a way to minimize the physical travel your hands have to make to get complex editing done, and that turns out to be quite important. 09:06:33 -!- foo303_ is now known as foo303 09:07:34 tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:09:15 interesting but is it true that its compared to other uncommon and if yes why? 09:11:37 blbef: the best (and easiest) way would probably be for you to try out for yourself 09:11:49 jdz: it takes some time to learn 09:12:18 blbef: if you want to become a good programmer, emacs certainly isn't a good skill to have. even if you don't want to become a programmer, it may save you a lot of time. look at org-mode for instance, it's just handy :) 09:12:26 madnificent: yes, one will never learn by reading about it without actually sitting down and using the damn thing 09:13:45 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:17:14 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: jeekl] 09:18:15 s/isn't/is in what madnificent said (since he himself did not correct it) 09:20:18 mathrick_ [~mathrick@37.28.151.28] has joined #lisp 09:22:10 -!- renard_ [~renard@2a01:e0b:1:150:ca0a:a9ff:fef1:a847] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:22:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:22:33 paulo__ [~paulo@187.112.67.22] has joined #lisp 09:22:53 renard_ [~renard@2a01:e0b:1:150:ca0a:a9ff:fef1:a847] has joined #lisp 09:22:54 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:55 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip72-200-124-178.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:22:55 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 09:23:21 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0024e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:23:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:23:42 jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has joined #lisp 09:23:42 -!- jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has quit [Changing host] 09:23:42 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 09:23:47 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:24:57 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:34 -!- _paul0 [~paulo@177.132.101.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26:43 blbef: indeed, with 'look at' i mean 'try out' :) 09:26:45 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:27:14 jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has joined #lisp 09:27:15 -!- jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has quit [Changing host] 09:27:15 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 09:27:24 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:27:29 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 09:28:15 jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has joined #lisp 09:28:15 -!- jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has quit [Changing host] 09:28:15 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 09:32:40 jdz:Not to beat a dead horse, what Vivitron said re slot documentation. I don't mind the newlines in function docstrings. 09:33:33 blbef: Clozure Common Lisp has an integrated IDE that people seem to like, especially if they have been Macintosh Common Lisp users. 09:35:30 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 09:36:56 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-249-237.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:40:19 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:40:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.222] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 09:43:09 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.222] has joined #lisp 09:44:16 simplechat [~simplecha@ppp121-44-242-84.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:17 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@ppp121-44-242-84.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:44:17 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:45:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:59 -!- MediaWork [~hroi@v01.vedur.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:40 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 09:54:36 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:49 (let ((x 1))) <--- why do I not need to put there '(x 1)? 09:57:11 because let is a special operator; normal evaluation rules don't necessarily apply 10:00:07 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:32 -!- frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 10:02:39 let is not a function 10:03:53 frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 10:05:39 let is a macro expressed using lambda? 10:06:13 no, it's a special form 10:06:15 no, let is a special operator. 10:06:25 one of the few fundamental parts of the language 10:06:33 isn't it implemented as a macro? 10:06:49 no. 10:07:19 doomlord: it could be expressed using a lambda, but it's a special operator. close though 10:07:46 it is implemented as a special operator. 10:09:02 i guess the special operator is a toolchain optimization, it would get out of hand nesting so many lambdas 10:09:42 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:02 let* is a nested set of lets then perhaps 10:10:10 add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-39-21.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:10:49 CLHS says (3.1.2.1.2.2): "An implementation is free to implement a Common Lisp special operator as a macro." 10:10:51 let* is also a special operator. 10:12:20 morphling: sounds like that fits :) 10:12:26 morphling: it's a welcome addition though 10:13:11 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 10:13:50 -!- moore33 [~moore@46.169.125.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:14:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 10:14:49 doomlord: I understand that SBCL transforms let into lambda. 10:16:04 internally in the compiler yes, but it is not implemented as a macro. 10:17:02 (i.e. try MACROEXPAND on it) 10:22:30 bitonic [~user@dyn901-144.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:23:38 yes, I was just replying to doomlord's speculation that "it would get out of hand" 10:23:59 that is why I said 'transforms' rather than 'macroexpands' 10:24:11 as it is a compiler transform, not a macro expansion. 10:24:56 though it couldb e expanded to a bunch of lambdas depending ont he implementation, and then doing bunch of reductions ... scheme does it all the time. 10:25:06 anyway, it is still a special not a macro :0 10:25:23 -!- Daisy [Eile@95.209.63.51.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:26:44 'then doing a bunch of reduction' , ok 10:27:38 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.110.120.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 10:28:09 doomlord: yes .. 10:28:12 what part was unclear? 10:32:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:33:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:34:55 ams: that's not necessarily correct either though. it's a special, but it can be implemented as a macro. saying that it's not a macro needs a lot more context, at best. 10:35:22 either case, i think everyone gets it by now 10:41:34 hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 10:41:40 moore33 [~moore@46.169.125.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:42:15 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206127.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:43:20 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:44 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0024e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:43:59 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:44:31 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-219-84.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:25 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:47:24 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 10:48:48 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.110.120.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:54:50 _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:51 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-173-65-234-164.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:54:51 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:57:01 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:59:28 I really like "ANSI Common Lisp" by Graham. Out of all the material I have looked at so far, it is the most clean and without too much unnecessary talk. 10:59:58 mrcarrot: It gives pretty poor treatment to several important features of Common Lisp. 11:00:17 mrcarrot: graham is a great writer. you'll need to read other books to fully grasp common lisp, though. 11:00:27 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:00:38 particularly the object system and package system 11:00:41 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:43 mrcarrot: sonya keene's book is a good treatment of clos 11:01:01 and xach's upcoming book on the cl package system is also recommended :) 11:01:03 -!- frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: quit] 11:01:04 Daisy [Eile@95.209.67.103.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 11:01:37 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:01:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:02:00 *phrixos* needs to make more reading tme 11:02:27 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:02:36 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:52 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:06 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn901-144.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:13 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:08:45 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 11:09:03 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 11:10:59 bitonic [~user@dyn901-144.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:11:00 sohail [~Adium@76-10-152-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:00 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-152-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:11:00 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 11:12:21 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:23 It will be an ebook of delightful size and content 11:21:03 and very moderate pricing 11:21:20 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:22:06 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206127.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:17 moderate, but fair 11:22:43 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:48 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 11:24:12 sohail [~Adium@76-10-152-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 11:24:13 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-152-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:13 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 11:27:32 how can this be made with lisp ide? -> "Design GUIs quickly and smoothly by dragging and positioning GUI components from a palette" -> http://netbeans.org/images_www/v7/design/overview/ui_development.png 11:28:04 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:28:21 blbef: look at allegro cl or lispworks if you need a lisp that supports gui development conveniently 11:28:27 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:31:08 there is clib 11:31:18 common lisp interface builder 11:31:29 ams: show some screen shots. 11:31:49 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:32:33 blbef: i personally found ltk to be reasonably nice to work with too, though a tad limited in what it supported at the time (don't know if it has evolved). we use the brawsers of teh interwebz as a target platform here. 11:33:22 ams: where is clib? 11:33:23 clim interface builder even .. 11:34:16 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-141-39-21.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:34:19 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:34:29 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/gui/clim/clib/0.html 11:34:38 people who write GUI CL applications for money often use LispWorks CAPI 11:35:14 i write cl for money, i don't use software that deprives me of my freedom to hack though. 11:36:01 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:37:16 Here's a cookie. 11:37:25 Xach: thanks, would you like a beeR? 11:37:31 H4ns, i would like to use open source, but these seem to be good 11:37:59 madnificent, ltk , is there a windows version? 11:38:05 blbef: personally, i'd just use clim and be done with it... 11:38:07 blbef: there is no open source interactive gui construction toolkit for common lisp. 11:38:12 never seen the benefit of using a IB 11:38:18 H4ns: CLIB. 11:39:05 blbef: if you are into osx, i think you can use lisp and apple's interface builder together. 11:39:37 "requires CLIM 1.1" whoo boy 11:39:47 apple tools have lisp support? 11:39:58 they used to use lisp long ago? 11:40:00 H4ns, i have no apple computer 11:40:01 doomlord: no, clozure cl has apple tools support. 11:40:32 I think I read the paper on CLIB years ago; it's cool that the source is available. 11:41:01 i ported clib to clim II ... and some other stuff. 11:41:44 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:45 I take that back. Where is the source? 11:42:59 for clib? check one of the old cmu ai-repo directories... 11:43:04 fiveop [~fiveop@188-195-197-131-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:43:09 for my stuff? ~/lisp/clib/ 11:43:53 ams: The link to the cmu repo that you posted above has a tgz that contains... fasl files. 11:44:32 moore33: You have Allegro CL for SPARC, right? Just load it. 11:44:59  11:45:05 moore33: oh? maybe i disassembled it... go figure, was a bunch of years back 11:45:06 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-150.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:45:30 anyway, a good retirement project :) 11:45:32 m| 11:46:06 hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 11:46:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:47:41 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 11:48:14 add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-13-164.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:48:50 moore33: ah, no i asked the author to send me the code.. 11:49:35 which still reminds me that i should publish lisp lore somewhere; got the copyright from springer and lamson to do so. 11:50:25 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:05 mindCrime [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:51 isn't that the tutorial text for a specific version of genera that has never been updated to newer versions? if i regret buying one lisp book, then it is this one. :) 11:51:59 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:52:20 but please publish it to save other people from making the same mistake. 11:52:52 H4ns: yeah 11:52:54 [SLB]` [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 11:53:03 That's a great book. 11:53:08 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:53:17 H4ns: some years ago i asked springer for premission to publish it, verbatim, etc... 11:53:39 H4ns: was on basis that i would get ack from the authors, so lamson, and that other guy i forgot (for the 2nd ed) 11:54:38 H4ns: richard had the source for the book on a TD8, but we couldn't find anyone with a machine to read it .. 11:54:51 think it was also the 1st ed.. 11:55:07 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 11:55:38 but now i've gotten it scanned, and such and well, just publish it somewhere, with written permission from springer. 11:55:44 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:48 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:57:07 ams:I'm seperated from my copy by 600km at the moment... I think my edition of the book uses Flavors. Do both editions? 11:57:25 moore33: i'm not sure about the 1st one. 11:57:39 2nd ed uses flavours.. 11:57:53 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 11:58:35 For those of us who never used Genera in anger, I found it a pretty good introduction to Dynamic Windows and CLIM ideas. 11:58:39 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:58:47 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 11:58:48 yeah, it is a good book 11:58:58 even if it was for bolix 12:00:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Client Quit] 12:00:25 wouldn't mind getting my hands on cltl1 12:00:35 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 12:00:44 I've got one of those in a box somewhere. 12:01:06 1st ed? 12:01:10 Yeah. 12:01:22 GIVE ME NOW! 12:01:28 GIF M33!! 12:01:32 precious ... 12:01:41 Again, 600km away... until next week. 12:01:54 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:01:56 run.. run now.. 12:02:00 Seriously, if you are interested, I'm sure something could be arranged. 12:02:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:02:07 i am :-) 12:02:13 i collect old lisp manuals. 12:02:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:02:55 as do i :) 12:03:49 ams: What continent are you on? 12:04:01 moore33: europe 12:04:15 ams: Even better. 12:04:40 Can anyone explain this one: (apply #'list 1 nil ) 12:05:08 mrcarrot: what is there to explain? 12:05:57 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:07 -!- Daisy [Eile@95.209.67.103.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:06:29 ams: I know it will return (1) but I do not understand why. 12:07:10 mrcarrot: (describe 'apply) 12:07:25 Slight change of topic: I remember CLtL2 being dissed at the time of the ANSI effort as not being about actual ANSI CL, a distraction from the standards effort, stelling x3j13's thunder, etc.... but it's all bullshit. It's a very readable reference. 12:07:28 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:38 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 12:07:55 moore33: it is a reference to a language that has no implementations. 12:08:05 neither did cl :-) 12:08:17 H4ns: Are you sure? :) 12:08:58 moore33: from the perspective of #lisp, i am sure. 12:09:05 I would say that several CL implementations were pretty close to CLtL2 at the time. 12:09:13 Is CLtL2 still in print? 12:09:18 prolly not 12:09:46 not many lisp books are longer in print :( 12:11:07 is there a reason why the biggest open source ides are not supporting lisp? 12:11:37 blbef:Lisp developers don't hack on those IDEs. 12:12:30 why 12:12:40 qfr [void@unaffiliated/yw] has joined #lisp 12:12:44 Why would they want to? 12:12:51 -!- qfr [void@unaffiliated/yw] has left #lisp 12:13:03 I realize that this sounds pretty obnoxious :) 12:13:16 peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 12:14:44 blbef: don't use CLIM, and I don't know. 12:16:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:47 rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-168-31-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:17:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:19:06 blbef: becasue we have emacs, and emacs was designed for lisp. 12:19:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:23 and to be a sane editor... which can't be said about "ide's" 12:19:26 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 12:20:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:20:55 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m212-152-13-164.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 12:21:41 to wit, show me one ide where i can modify things to make it easier for me to hack... 12:22:39 my favourite example is using sawnk and stuff like swank::menu-choices-for-presentation 12:24:27 sohail [~Adium@76-10-152-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:28 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-152-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:24:28 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 12:24:31 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:29:01 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:30:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:30:57 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:15 blbef: i think you can run lisp in eclipse 12:31:49 ams: also, that's a very very poor reason to use Emacs. something is either good, making it worth using, but being designed for something doesn't make it worth using. 12:32:33 ams: in an analogy i assume you'll like: microsoft windows was built for users which know little about computers, but that doesn't make it the 'best' operating system for them, not by far. 12:33:49 blbef: my guess is that many people who get into lisp learn emacs because it's the best supported environment. once you know either VIm or Emacs, you'll likely not want to swap to a more modern-day IDE anymore because they are less efficient to work in. editing text and code is simply slower in said editors. though that's my guess. i certainly wouldn't mind better support in the 'modern IDEs' 12:35:54 ok but isnt it easier in modern ides with ui building- lisp programmers dont make use of uis? 12:36:05 If "a modern-day IDE is less efficient to work in," doesn't that lend credence to the idea that Emacs is better? 12:36:11 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:20 hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has joined #lisp 12:36:48 moore33: but it has a much steeper learning curve, which is -presumably- something not many coders want to get into when they're learning lisp. 12:37:08 madnificent: Fair enough. 12:37:17 madnificent, on wikipedia eclipse doesnt say anything about lisp support but may be 12:37:29 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81.200.28.83] has joined #lisp 12:38:03 blbef: i use html as a target platform, so no, i don't often build a gui. CUSP should be the plugin for Eclipse. i really don't know how well it's supported now. i found emacs+slime to be vastly superior, but then again, i belong to the group that already uses emacs, so i may be biased. 12:38:13 blbef: to date, i have never seen an efficent programmer working in an ide. 12:38:55 they tend to click about alot and not write, nor understand the code the are working with .. 12:39:01 ams: then you should look around better 12:39:22 they are more interested in `a pretty view of xml data so i can click on arrows to expand nodes'; than actually manipulating the data to something usable. 12:40:01 also, as a problem solver, my job isn't ux and ui design, letting developers work on that is and has always been the wrong idea. 12:40:57 clearly, no one should ever implement the gui that the designers have built, that'd be a waste of perfectly good application ideas which work perfectly well with the stencils alone :/ 12:41:18 Programmer GUIs are the best 12:41:58 for programmers; hence emacs :-) 12:42:25 really, gui design should not be in the flow of a ide 12:42:26 I don't mean "for" programmers, I mean "by" programmers. 12:42:44 so "real" programmers" dont make ui's? who makes them? 12:43:00 blbef: there may be other things than Eclipse support, but a year or four ago, i needed support for someone that wasn't going to do emacs, and that was what i used for him. 12:43:26 blbef: a designer; we implement them though, and using a IB will just cause headaches. 12:43:54 which is why we write code for ui's, it is much simpler, more maintainable, and easier to tweak to the whims of designers. 12:44:09 one thing that is right with html/css ... 12:44:23 ams: you haven't done much web dev, have you? 12:44:29 madnificent, hah! 12:44:56 and if you look at a good web designer, that is what he uses, raw html and raw css; as it should be. 12:45:12 *madnificent* doesn't think ams understands the difference between web applications and websites. 12:45:18 not if he wants to stay sane he doens't 12:45:37 well, i don't know any sane designers anyway =) 12:46:02 they are all kinda kookoo ... 12:46:09 and they dress funny 12:46:37 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:47:06 Some UI designers and implementers often impress me more than the backend developers behind the scenes. Whenever I see a GUI online or some application GUI that does fancy animations and whatever, and I try to envision how I'd implement it nicely, and 90% of the time I can't. (You can blame that on either designers being very good or my knowledge of GUIs being very rudimentary.) 12:48:34 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-131-126.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:51 because there is nothing fun on the backend unless you do crazy stuff 12:49:15 basically a code monkey job .. 12:49:32 I'm not sure what qualifies as crazy stuff, but I will hazard a guess and say that I like those things. 12:50:02 ams: are you on vacation right now? 12:50:17 Quadrescence: ripping through a few petabytes of data in a few seconds 12:50:17 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:22 Quadrescence: HFT stuff ... 12:50:29 Quadrescence: some finance stuff is quite funky too 12:50:42 but the general joe down the street, data entry is what they do. 12:50:48 I don't know about those things. 12:50:50 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:06 Quadrescence: i'm not sure if ams knows what he's talking about either. 12:51:40 pitty. 12:54:11 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:00:56 _nix00 [~Adium@116.230.227.123] has joined #lisp 13:02:30 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.230.227.123] has quit [Client Quit] 13:07:08 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 13:07:43 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:09:36 ikki [~ikki@189.247.235.115] has joined #lisp 13:09:40 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:42 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:13:01 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:13:51 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 13:14:19 billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-140-240.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:19 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-140-240.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:14:19 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:15:32 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn901-144.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:15:44 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:18:34 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:03 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-028-123.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:03 -!- elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:54 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:22:36 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 13:23:37 is lisp good to deal with problems when there are arbitrary structured data sets ? 13:24:14 yes 13:24:28 (same answer if you eliminate "when" and everything after) 13:24:28 more than any other language ? 13:24:35 I don't know, I haven't used every other language. 13:24:45 It is good for dealing with problems, though. 13:25:06 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 13:25:27 elkng: If the problem domain is mature and has a sizeable group of problem solvers who all use and share tools written in a particular language, you may find that language has a pretty good head start. 13:25:40 elkng: Finding out if that's the case will take extra research, though. 13:26:10 elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 13:26:22 Lisp is pretty good at solving problems from scratch. There are usually fewer chances to re-use the work of others for a given problem domain, though. 13:26:31 gilez [~gdmalet@tux.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 13:26:36 That situation is improved whenever you use Lisp and share your work. 13:27:25 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:19 linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:34:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-131-126.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:35:37 What is the most common version control system for Lisp programming? Or are people using anything they want, like mercury or git? 13:36:05 mrcarrot: I suspect git is the most common. darcs was once pretty common but is now less so. some use subversion. 13:36:15 some use mercurial 13:36:21 nobody uses arch 13:36:21 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:36:53 i have found git to be similar to lisp in spirit (giving a lot of power to the user) 13:36:59 and hardly anyone uses bzr 13:37:03 i find it so easy to experiment with stuff 13:37:09 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 13:37:25 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 13:37:52 Thanks. 13:38:05 i say git too 13:38:21 Many people use github, too. 13:38:35 Xach: we need hard numbers! 13:38:45 100 people use github 13:38:56 .5 13:39:51 someone must write a lisp vcs! 13:39:59 out of my quicklisp "packages" (183), 89 are from git repos 13:40:03 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 13:40:07 ams: why? 13:40:16 cause! 13:40:16 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:40:22 haskell people have done it, and now they use git 13:40:50 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 Darcs ended up being a mess... like over complicated, it think. 13:40:59 bitonic [~user@dyn900-56.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:41:02 Meta-CVS was kind of a Lisp VCS. 13:41:17 I don't know if anyone used used it when it was alive, and now it is dead. 13:41:29 pacman ... 13:41:39 Xach: I did, briefly... 13:41:48 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 13:41:51 I even made a FreeBSD-port for it. :) 13:41:53 johs: How was it? The docs made it seem nice. 13:42:16 It was alright, I guess. 13:42:38 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:42:45 I really liked Darcs, though. It has a great UI, I think. 13:43:06 Never used it for serious stuff, though, so didn't run into the problems that others have had with it. 13:43:22 i never understood what people meant with a ui for vcs ... 13:43:28 i never leave emacs 13:43:41 I like magit as an emacs gui for git. 13:43:47 C-x v v, C-x v = ... 13:44:06 ams: how do you do rebase? 13:44:19 Marshall's changesafe software sounded pretty neat too. 13:44:31 I wonder if the last few years have changed their willingness to share the work in progress. 13:44:40 jdz: rebase? :-) 13:44:58 ams: Nowadays I use Emacs, but I'm using CVS, so Emacs supports basically every operation... 13:45:00 ams: you don't even know what you're missing with "not leaving emacs" 13:45:12 ams: It's possible that it also supports every operation for Darcs as well, I wouldn't know. 13:45:19 jdz: i never grooked the usefulness of rebase to be honest 13:45:35 johs: it supports basically every vcs under the sun; even clearcase. 13:45:43 ams: One cool feature of Darcs is that you can record partial changes, for example. 13:45:43 ams: nice clean commits? 13:46:04 As in, I've changed several lines in a file, but I only want to commit a small part of it. 13:46:05 johs: i do that in ChangeLog 13:46:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.235.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:46:40 johs: always 13:46:53 johs: git also allows you to select which changes you want to go into next commit. especially nice with magit. 13:47:00 Cool. 13:47:15 i just don't code like that 13:47:38 people make mistakes. having tools which allow one to fix them is good. 13:47:54 not a feature for people who do not make mistakes, though. 13:48:01 i have not met any, though 13:48:16 if i am editing a piece of code, and think ok, well this additional thing would be nice, i will write a changelog entry for it first, and then when I am done with the current piece, i'll write the other bit of code 13:48:30 jdz: well, rebase doesn't help you there... 13:48:40 ams: it sure does 13:48:51 cause if you push, you can't do a rebase unless you wish to fubar things for everyone 13:49:19 ams: nobody was talking about pushing 13:49:19 jdz: Sorry, no, it doesn't; "you cannot change published history" is the rule. 13:49:20 rebase is for "continue working on my little part (having done several commits), while continue tracking upstream fixes".. So your tree always looks like upstream-rev -> upstream-rev -> your-fix1 -> your-fix2 13:49:46 maxm: not only that 13:49:56 i simply wait for commiting in that case. 13:49:57 when another upstream change appears, rebase is what pushes it behind your fixes.. (technically it unrolls to upstream, does update, then re-applies your fixes) 13:49:57 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:50:19 well, this is getting too much off-topic now 13:50:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-142.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:03 lets write a vcs in lisp for lisp! 13:51:21 sure, lead the way 13:51:39 if people will like what you have written, they will join 13:52:06 oh, i want to be project leader, and delegate, so we can create a synergy of knowledge! 13:52:33 (i don't use vcs for my own stuff :-) 13:52:33 johs: you heard of git add -p 13:52:59 -!- linse [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 13:53:40 i use emacs backupfiles for vcs. 13:53:46 rebase is useful to keep a linear history 13:54:03 ams: sure, having the same project in two hundred million billion folders for each experiment you make is better 13:54:19 jdz: i have a repl for that. 13:55:10 ivan-kanis: rebase is useful also for merging commits, editing commits, and reordering commits 13:55:16 note that i use git, bzr, cvs, and clearcase (of all horribel things) every single day, just for my own common lisp stuff i use backupfiles. 13:55:21 and splitting commits 13:55:37 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:40 jdz: ah yeah interactive rebase is cool 13:56:04 also, moving commits between branches 13:56:16 asvil [~user@ns.osvtl.spb.ru] has joined #lisp 13:56:21 jdz: how do you split commits? 13:56:43 ivan-kanis: when you edit 13:57:20 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:57:25 take it to #lispcafe, plz 13:57:32 git rebase -i COMMIT-ID^, mark it as edit. 13:57:41 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@37.28.151.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:53 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.21.151] has joined #lisp 13:58:26 ams: what's the emacs key binding for it? 13:58:46 -!- kmels [~kmels@p5B13F641.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:03:00 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn900-56.eduroam.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03:16 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:04 stokachu [~stokachu@50.58.87.197] has joined #lisp 14:08:46 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:09 -!- peterhil- [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 14:16:30 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-18-103.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:18:26 whats portable way to get native pathname namestring? 14:18:33 as in entire thing not just the file? 14:18:48 only thing that comes to mind is (format nil "~A" pathname) 14:19:03 maxm: have you tried NAMESTRING? 14:19:17 ah doh 14:19:52 hate when you not using something often enough, that it you have to rediscover it every damn time 14:19:52 maxm: namestring is not the same as native, though. sbcl and ccl (and probably others) have an extension to get a namestring the underlying system will truly understand. 14:20:34 a namestring in ccl on windows, for example, will escape dots in the pathname-name with > on windows. the native namestring will not. 14:20:50 *Xach* is still working out namestring issues in quicklisp 14:21:36 Xach: ah cool, I don't really care about underlaying system, but more about logger name uniqueness, I'm simplyfing / doing KISS pass on log4cl, and pathname that log statement is instantiated from is now embedded into the category, I just need string for uniqueness 14:22:48 maxm: gotcha. it is more of an issue if you are trying to pass namestrings to external libraries or programs. 14:25:13 niels2 [~niels@p4FD6BEC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:35 -!- niels1 [~niels@p4FD6B7FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:31:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-248-68.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:11 ikki [~ikki@189.247.235.115] has joined #lisp 14:48:04 -!- rootlocus [~rootlocus@124-168-31-20.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:39 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: all hope lost] 14:53:29 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:48 _nix00 [~Adium@116.230.227.123] has joined #lisp 14:54:21 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.230.227.123] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:56:34 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 15:03:52 bitonic` [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:13 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:05:59 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:43 normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:34 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 15:12:07 -!- blbef [~chatzilla@089144206127.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 3.6.28/20120306064154]] 15:13:03 can (cxml-xmls:make-xmls-builder) (or something else in cxml) ignore whitespace between elements? 15:13:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-251-20.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:34 -!- niels2 [~niels@p4FD6BEC3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 15:14:50 or, asked differently, is there a REMOVE-IF for trees? 15:16:09 flip214: it's 3 lines of code. 15:16:48 jdz: well, more like 5 (for me, at least). of course, everything can be rewritten N times ... 15:17:18 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:17:55 acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 15:20:05 flip214: it's like flatten 15:20:26 Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:21:29 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:31 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:21:58 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:22:17 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 15:22:20 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-jpqfjrcgytlbqjwn] has joined #lisp 15:22:21 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:38 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 15:23:43 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 15:24:35 are 14 lines for me. 15:24:58 although I could surely shave one or two off. 15:26:42 mrm [~user@89.189.135.6.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:26:50 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:22 ok, only 12 now. 15:30:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:31:50 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:36:21 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-88-188.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:37:10 it appears to me that there is no way to write such a function which would work in all cases 15:39:14 like, what should (remove-tree-if #'consp tree) do? 15:39:26 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 15:41:05 jdz: no, you just need to define an interface to walk and re-write the tree; a generic zipper. 15:42:27 pkhuong: yeah, but still would not work for conses... 15:42:29 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:43:29 jdz: I don't follow. 15:44:36 pkhuong: relax, it's more likely that it's just me confused. 15:45:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:03 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 15:49:16 pkhuong: a generic zipper will never pass a cons to the test function... 15:49:36 Do we have a TRIVIAL-TEMP-FILE somewhere? 15:50:25 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:50:27 Quadrescence: no, but I'd love a wrapper around mktemp. 15:50:54 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 15:52:11 rats. Anyone want to write it to work on windows and linux? :) 15:52:15 (and os x) 15:53:19 rats ? 15:53:34 == damn, dang, fsck, bummer 15:54:27 Quadrescence: (ql:quickload :temporary-file) 15:55:03 H4ns, Aha! Documentation anywhere? Or a one-liner tutorial? 15:55:20 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:31 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:55:38 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:39 Quadrescence: it has docs, see https://github.com/hanshuebner/temporary-file 15:55:52 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-jpqfjrcgytlbqjwn] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:56:08 H4ns, fantastic! I thought it was you who was talking about temp files some time ago 15:56:47 Quadrescence: yeah. in the end i got yelled at and lost interest in working on it, but it should be fairly complete :) 16:00:53 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 16:01:40 add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-159-151.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:01:41 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:06 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:05:08 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:05:38 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:05:39 jdz: I've limited my PREDICATE to ATOMs. 16:06:17 although having a secondary predicate to kill whole sub-trees might come in handy sometimes, too. 16:07:18 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 16:07:32 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:24 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@188-195-197-131-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 16:11:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has joined #lisp 16:11:23 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:01 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:14:42 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:57 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:18:45 -!- antgreen [~user@dsl-173-206-242-248.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:18:50 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:20:17 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:48 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:50 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:24:51 enymo [~user@nat.sierrabravo.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:55 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:27:10 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 16:28:32 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-13.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:07 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:31:49 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 16:33:15 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:54 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:17 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 16:34:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.235.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:38 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37:57 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:41 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:25 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-249-237.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:43:53 -!- zxq9 [~zxq9@FL1-111-169-176-119.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:45:55 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:47:26 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c3b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:07 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@7-111-204-62-static.cable.fcom.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:40 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:50:39 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c079e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:06 alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.121.172.248] has joined #lisp 16:56:58 add^_^ [~add^_@m212-152-11-249.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 16:57:32 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-159-151.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:57:32 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 16:57:40 Quadrescence: with-temporary-file works quite well. i've used it in a number of tests. 16:57:46 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:57:55 Quadrescence: with not a single issue to date 16:58:49 What I actually needed was a way to generate a temporary file which I could then use. I am not sure if (open-temporary) (close *) is a really smart way to do it. Probably not. 16:59:11 Quadrescence: that is what i do often. 16:59:38 Quadrescence: although i don't usually close the file. 16:59:52 Quadrescence: i use w-t-f and don't delete the file in the call to w-t-f 17:00:26 wtf 17:00:51 heh 17:00:59 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:01:02 H4ns, I don't know much about temp files, but isn't it possible that when closing, the file system could conceivably get rid of whatever you opened, and it'll become invalid? 17:01:06 Quadrescence: grabbing the filename isn't safe, unless the umask is set just right. 17:01:14 sykopomp: you'd better like it! 17:02:01 s/when closing/after closing/ 17:02:46 Quadrescence: sure. unless you specify :keep t, the file will be deleted when you exit the wtf body 17:02:53 shout at me if i'm wrong, but i thought slime had a way for executing an expression in a certain frame of the callstack of the debugger. any ideas of the key combo if that's correct? 17:04:59 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:06:07 ah sorry, it's in the menu! 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19:11:06 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:12:14 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:15:09 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:28 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:24 Kvakz [~kvaks@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:20:04 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 19:28:33 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: trivial-irc-0.0.3] 19:30:54 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-eccde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:28 AeroNotix [~xeno@cec222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:31:44 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-125-14.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 19:33:08 how do I deconstruct the current element in (loop) ? 19:33:25 -!- mrm [~user@89.189.135.6.dynamic.ufanet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:33:57 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.166.185] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 19:34:29 reactormonk: what do you mean by "current element"? 19:34:45 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 19:34:47 H4ns, (for element in data= 19:34:53 s/=/)/ 19:35:21 reactormonk: "element" is your current element. what do you mean by "deconstruct" now? 19:35:41 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 19:36:34 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 19:37:50 H4ns, let's say the element looks like '(foo (bar baz)) I'd like 'foo' in one variable and '(bar baz) in another. 19:37:57 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:23 reactormonk: you can use destructuring-bind on element 19:38:25 *drewc* will, at this point, say FOR is not in Common Lisp, and fuuuu ... read the docs please reactormonk 19:38:28 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_aag.htm 19:38:39 reactormonk: i'd use dolist and destructuring-bind really 19:39:03 H4ns, that's good as well 19:39:16 wait ... 19:39:54 reactormonk: car, cdr. 19:40:02 (loop for (a b) in data ...) is what you're thinking of? 19:40:10 Bike, yep 19:40:11 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 19:40:32 why not just car/cdr? why this looping ... 19:40:45 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:31 hi 19:41:42 Xach: are you there? 19:41:43 yeah, read the docs, and maybe at this point learn a wee bit of CL by reading PCL or Land of Lisp or something :) 19:41:51 Posterdati: I am here. 19:42:20 Xach: I heard bad news from US east coast 19:42:21 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:29 Xach: are you ok? 19:42:36 gigamonkey: hi! 19:42:40 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-25-106.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:49 ams: i honestly wonder where you learned lisp. you consistently advise the complex solution to the simple problem. why?! 19:42:57 hello 19:43:00 Let us discuss it via private messages. 19:43:07 ok 19:43:24 sorry 19:45:21 please I need help on libusb-ffi, I continuosly get bulk read error from a bulk usb endpoint... Is there a way to read from an endpoint only if there's data ready from it? 19:45:26 ok, so paste.lisp.org is back up.. sorry about the downtime, and to those looking at IRC, please /msg me if paste. or common-lisp.net or cliki.net is down 19:45:41 drewc: Will do 19:45:58 gigamonkey: hey hey! 19:46:03 Xach: thanks :) 19:46:57 drewc: long time! 19:48:17 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:48:18 -!- nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: nforgerit] 19:48:32 gigamonkey: have you got a couple of your books to sell with autograph on it? 19:48:35 :) 19:49:07 It could be arranged. Though easiest if I were to meet someone in real life. 19:49:14 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:50:19 adx [~adx@pool-108-28-109-140.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:27 Posterdati: *nudge* gigamonkey wants you to take him on a date. 19:53:04 ... 19:53:06 drew! greetings :) 19:53:17 ams: a date? 19:53:18 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 19:53:32 I could buy gigamonkey dinner if he signs my copy :p 19:53:32 Posterdati: yes, you know, candles, red wine, snugging afterwards .. 19:53:35 snuggling 19:53:38 ams: Please stop with the random interjections of nonsense. 19:54:30 Xach: No. 19:55:06 ams: Do you really mean that? 19:55:31 he seems to be convinced of his conviction. 19:55:36 time for the sentence. 19:55:49 ams: I take your statements as little boy jokes 19:57:01 nforgerit [~nforgerit@HSI-KBW-149-172-198-162.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:09 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:59:30 Xach: Whatever.. I'm going back to hacking, you should get a beer. 20:00:17 *moore33* has had a coffee far later than usual and is ready to hack himself. 20:00:17 lol 20:00:21 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:00:41 -!- paulo__ [~paulo@187.112.67.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:47 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 20:01:50 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:54 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-96-255-72-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A532.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:26 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 20:07:38 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:15:27 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:33 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:12 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-234-7.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:22:43 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@cec222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:23:12 AeroNotix [~xeno@cec222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:23:37 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.235.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:10 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:51 Joreji [~thomas@73-018.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:33:53 -!- Adeon\SIGSEGV is now known as Adeon 20:34:47 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-qqjkbdfyjgnwnonz] has joined #lisp 20:36:25 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 20:37:03 ikki [~ikki@189.247.235.115] has joined #lisp 20:37:10 could anyone help me please for my libusb problem? 20:38:19 libusb supports asynchronous I/O 20:38:46 not bulk read/write? 20:40:47 what? 20:40:51 Ralith: I'm trying to read the OUT endpoint just after send data to the IN one 20:41:06 okay? 20:41:28 blbef [~chatzilla@089144206127.atnat0015.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:37 but as I execute usb-bulk-read I've got bulk read failed 20:42:23 trying to read when there is no data to be read tends to result in no data being read 20:42:37 yes but not an error 20:42:46 that depends how you define 'error' 20:42:55 usb-bulk-read has got a timeout parameter too 20:43:08 Ralith: fallen into debugger 20:43:47 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:45:57 so break is an error? 20:46:30 yes 20:46:44 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@188-195-197-131-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:47:23 bulk read failed 20:47:43 clhs error 20:47:48 aw, no bot 20:47:50 oh well 20:48:19 you need to refer to the library's documentation. 20:48:23 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:51:01 ok 20:51:11 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 20:52:18 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 20:52:32 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:53 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:06:38 Ralith: I found the problem 21:09:09 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:10:15 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:12 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:11:25 kcj_ [~casey@203-173-215-59.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:15:43 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 21:20:21 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-128-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:58 -!- kcj_ [~casey@203-173-215-59.dialup.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Quit: kcj_] 21:22:06 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:16 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:07 francogrex [~user@109.130.140.246] has joined #lisp 21:25:19 look at this mess: http://paste.lisp.org/display/133461 21:25:53 parse-integer takes :start and :end 21:26:16 defun is your friend. 21:26:21 it's about dates. I want to set milestones: 1st 7 workdays of months, then another within 10 calendar days, then 3 workdays, then 3 workdays 21:26:22 do not fear the defun 21:26:43 francogrex: seriously, tl;dr. Write code that is at least marginally parsable, please. 21:27:26 tl;dr ? 21:27:52 francogrex: it is an unreadable mess. tl;dr => too long; didn't read 21:27:57 too long; didn't read 21:28:11 francogrex: consider using the local-time library. 21:28:40 or at least nth-value 21:29:04 yeah I know it's painful 21:29:31 francogrex: "thank you for sharing the pain with us" 21:29:33 why should we suffer it? 21:29:56 good question 21:30:31 add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-125-157.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:31:09 I can share poinful code, too https://github.com/sykopomp/memento-mori/blob/26b07ba652a05befed506d5d5fcf1ca1ffc0c7e9/src/memento-mori.lisp#L413-468 21:32:00 anyone have experience with sending relatively much data to hunchentoot from an ajax (possibly POST call). i'm doing something wrong, but i'm not able to figure out if it's on the javascript side or on the hunchentoot side. i basically need to send a few forms to hunchentoot, i was thinking of using application/x-www-form-urlencoded, but any encoding that works is fine by me. i contro both ends. 21:32:24 madnificent: i'm doing it often and it works well for me. 21:32:33 madnificent: what is the issue that you have? 21:32:41 sykopomp: not that bad compared to mine you still have a long way to go 21:33:16 francogrex: I think I get points for the catch/throw/handler-case/restart-case/tagbody/go/block/return-from hot mess. 21:33:18 c'mon 21:33:27 oh, and the with/without-interrupts 21:33:52 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:05 H4ns: it seems the complete request isn't coming in. when i ask the parameter through hunchentoot:parameter, the string which i sent isn't fully there. so either the javascript side isn't sending a complete string, or the lisp side isn't reading it completely. 21:34:32 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:34:32 ok you win. I will see maybe the local-time library is useful to make that workday calendar day distinction for me (hope I can add national holidays) 21:34:50 madnificent: first use wireshark and your browser's debugger to determine what is going on on the wire. 21:35:55 H4ns: wireshark confused me (for the first time ever). it says 'Line-based text data ...' [truncated] content-which-i-expect-to-see-is-here 21:36:14 madnificent: i can't help you with that, sadly 21:36:53 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.152] has joined #lisp 21:37:01 madnificent: install flask or something similarly stupid-simple, and do a similar request to its web server. 21:37:08 H4ns: do you have an example somewhere, perhaps in which you send some javascript generated form to the server? this must be dull. 21:37:31 madnificent: here is something for the client that i use: https://github.com/hanshuebner/quickhoney/blob/develop/website/static/js/javascript.js#L159 21:37:34 madnificent: but first of all, console.log the data javascript-side before you do the AJAX request. 21:37:50 madnificent: it uses mochikit, though, so it might be confusing more 21:38:15 sykopomp: the data *before* sending it is complete. however, perhaps it's not sending it fully on the wire. or perhaps it's chunking it and hunchentoot isn't accepting the chunking or i-don't-know-what 21:38:43 H4ns: and nothing on the hunchentoot side, right? 21:39:10 madnificent: nothing special for this handler, no. 21:39:15 thanks 21:39:17 madnificent: but wait 21:40:20 madnificent: wait... are you sending a large amount of data in the query string? 21:40:41 sykopomp: i'm sending it in the body 21:40:59 sykopomp: *because* it was failing in the query string, and i didn't notice we were doing it like that :) 21:41:11 madnificent: no, sorry - nothing in that project is isolated enough to not confuse you 21:41:32 H4ns: feel free to throw keywords my way. 21:41:45 madnificent: :foo :bar :bax 21:41:55 ah great! thanks ^_^ 21:42:03 *madnificent* will use them wisely 21:44:54 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-125-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:50:29 madnificent: I can't look at HT source atm, but I'd start flailing by using post-parameter instead of parameter, maybe printing out POST-PARAMETERS*, and maybe RAW-POST-DATA. 21:50:43 if you need a particular direction in which to flail hopelessly 21:50:48 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:44 ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has joined #lisp 21:52:36 madnificent: also, can you show me your JS? 21:52:45 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:17 sykopomp: it's not cleanly separated, but i can make a pastie of it in a sec. 21:53:40 sykopomp: i'm going to post-parameter first, never know if i'm going wrong there 21:54:02 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-028-123.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:55:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.140.246] has left #lisp 21:57:03 -!- linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:57:44 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:15 -!- faust45 [~faust45@89.22.254.177] has quit [Quit: faust45] 21:59:10 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-qqjkbdfyjgnwnonz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:59:29 sykopomp: 898 characters in the hunchentoot post-parameter when i look at the request. i'm going to try a different way of sending (coding the form in js and sending that) 21:59:52 paul0 [~paulo@187.112.67.22] has joined #lisp 22:00:18 Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has joined #lisp 22:02:44 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@cec222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 22:02:44 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:02:58 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:18 AeroNotix [~xeno@cec222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:03:44 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 22:04:06 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:04:21 copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has joined #lisp 22:04:34 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 22:04:40 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 22:04:45 -!- Slivka [~Slivka@31.40.53.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:05 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 22:07:05 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:58 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@72-48-145-180.static.grandenetworks.net] has quit [] 22:10:42 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:11 -!- LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:12:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-81-169-220.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:47 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 22:17:35 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d0024e6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:19:14 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:32 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:20:55 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:21:16 so now that we're all cleaning up old (and new) libraries, who wants to clean up CLX? 22:21:48 Whatcha got in mind? 22:22:07 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:23:36 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c3b6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:00 Unfortunately, libraries that interface with the C X Windows world are more interesting to me these days. 22:25:10 moore33: oh, it's just a bit of a mess with the platform dependent code having lots of OOAO violations 22:28:35 -!- zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has quit [Quit: ] 22:30:20 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:29 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:30:48 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@178.121.172.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:30:48 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-131-126.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:25 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 22:34:32 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-219-84.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:35:09 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@cec222.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 22:38:34 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:39:11 H4ns, sykopomp: if either of you run into it again. a possible solution is to not send the data as application/x-www-form-urlencoded, but to create a form (new FormData()) and to send that through the xhr post 22:39:42 hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-178-39-146-39.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 22:40:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:36 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-131-126.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:46 ISF [~ivan@201.82.139.24] has joined #lisp 22:46:05 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:47:36 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 22:48:17 hi 22:48:17 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 22:49:10 are there any good skip list implementations in CL ? cliki does not seem to mention any 22:49:54 -!- yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:13 I found one the other day; can't say if it is "good" or not, but it deals with multiprocessing issues. Lemme see if I can find it... 22:50:40 http://www.cliki.net/cl-skip-list 22:52:00 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:38 moore33: thanks 22:53:24 *drewc* will say that googleing for 'cliki skip list' gives a bunch of search responses ... 22:54:05 and of course there is this : 22:54:07 http://www.cliki.net/site/search?query=skip+list 22:54:53 som, that was the first two things I tried to see if it is mentioned on cliki ... and it is... 22:55:03 so rather, not som! 22:56:16 billitch: Let me introduce you to something that I use multiple times per day for searching things on the web : "http://google.com" ... They even employ lispers to work on lisp code! 22:59:27 drewc: i think he gets it by now 23:02:16 madnificent: well, I guess I am glad that you think so. 23:02:53 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:03:11 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:45 because my next step was to give him a login to the cliki machine and teach him "grep" on the data directory :P 23:04:02 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:04 drewc: LoL 23:04:53 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:29 -!- smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 23:08:03 drewc: that'd be a lesson in waiting... 23:09:58 -!- findiggle1 [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:26 yeah, the next version of cliki will have a maildir where all articles are posted, only because I hae started to use 'mu' and 'mu4e' which searches and indexes the maildir... 23:12:58 so I know that it can be very very effective for searching 23:13:05 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:13:21 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 23:13:52 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.31] has joined #lisp 23:14:05 drewc: hm, interesting. I was using notmuch (: 23:14:19 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:14:26 (both seem to be pretty much inspired by sup) 23:15:56 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@175.79-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 23:18:12 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:18:36 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-094-219-064-073.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:19:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:20:13 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@rrcs-184-75-115-252.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 23:20:51 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:21:16 -!- bitonic` [~user@5e09a749.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:21:18 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-131-125-157.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:23:01 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:24:44 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:26:22 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 23:28:39 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:57 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-56-238.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:40:13 linse [~marioooh@216.252.92.228] has joined #lisp 23:41:34 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:49:29 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:50:30 justinmcp [~justinmcp@1.140.209.192] has joined #lisp 23:50:55 -!- cnl [~pony@91.203.66.41] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 23:53:25 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 23:54:31 antifuchs:i heh .. interesting indeed! I look at notmuch, but ended up going with mu4e because , at least in my book, it was 'better' ... and of course the is the MX record for drewc.ca which shows what I use for only that domain .. gmail. 23:54:31 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-144-74.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 23:54:41 looked at* 23:55:20 yeah. I used to sync my email with offlineimap & index locally with mu, but offlineimap messed up once too often and now I'm back on the web (: 23:55:48 mu + offlineimap + the gnus smtp thingie to send mail is what I am using for drewc.org 23:56:16 because, I do actually run a mailservice, and should use it myself to make sure things are ok. 23:56:34 how did offlineimap mess up? 23:57:04 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:57:28 you lose your right to be a dick about google if you ramble about mail 23:57:56 fair enough, /msg time 23:59:19 -!- catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-144-74.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]