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00:25:49 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: no future] 00:26:00 write now I have something like until (equal line "") do (format echo-stream "~A" line) 00:26:08 in a loop 00:26:26 msmith1: ummm... if you want to do your own echo handling, you *MUST* go into terminal programming 00:27:30 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:37 -!- Sorella_ is now known as Sorella 00:27:54 the issue is mainly with not breaking out of the loop, or continuing after printing 00:28:28 I want to continue listening for user input 00:29:48 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:34:35 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:39 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-89-217-242-147.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:36:40 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:45 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:34 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:43:03 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:10 iLogical_ [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:43:30 tiglog [~topeak@61.149.229.78] has joined #lisp 00:56:39 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:57:00 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:01:07 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:31 -!- ebobby is now known as Guest44968 01:01:46 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:09 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 01:05:30 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:39 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:38 -!- Guest44968 [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:11:41 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has joined #lisp 01:15:04 cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 01:15:10 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-184-36-173-69.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 01:16:51 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:18:51 Nafai [~nafai@174-126-77-168.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:58 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:21:26 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:24:02 CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:37 -!- frx [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 01:28:43 -!- gridaphobe [~user@128.54.35.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:29:31 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:13 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:34:36 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:38:57 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 01:40:27 -!- CampinSam [~user@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:43:07 cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:48:01 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 01:48:16 nooy [1000@h-155-42.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 01:49:35 drewc [~user@212.110.167.245] has joined #lisp 01:57:12 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-161-134.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:13 paul0 [~user@201.47.45.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:00:50 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:14 -!- ebobby is now known as Guest17199 02:01:35 -!- Guest17199 [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:03:26 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@189-12-80-65.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Quit: (quit :reason 'sleep)] 02:05:51 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-51-90.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:59 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pfsense.hackerdojo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:13:49 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:36 Does anyone out there understand the divergent interpretation of LOOP syntax that clisp has adopted? 02:14:45 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-51-90.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:14 -!- cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:16:48 hi rpg 02:16:54 Their insistence that, e.g., FOR clauses must precede WHILE clauses seems unsupported by the spec.... 02:16:57 fe[nl]ix: Hi! 02:20:29 rpg 02:20:38 ECL also had this restriction 02:21:27 antonv: I noticed that, too. I suspect it is an over-reading of the BNF. BNF has no way of indicating unordered constructs, so the ECL and clisp implementors seem to have over-read the spec. 02:21:31 but later it switched to jsut emit warning in case WHILE is after FOR, just to support the libraries having this code 02:22:10 Honestly, I don't even like having the warning, since a warning is a compile failure. (or is it just a style warning?) 02:22:52 http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.ecl.general/3344 02:23:16 rpg: of course we can indicate unordered constructs... 02:23:20 for having to precede while makes sense to me, if they meant for them to be interchangeable they could have been put in the same alternation in the bnf 02:23:49 Actually, the spec has examples with WHILE preceding FOR in a number of places. 02:24:48 Oh, wait, no sorry -- that's some example code not in the spec. 02:24:53 ska80 [~user@203.146.146.162] has joined #lisp 02:25:45 I find that code is often more readable if the WHILE (or other) test precedes variables whose value bindings are computed from the value checked in WHILE. 02:26:40 E.g., WHILE OPENLIST FOR NEXT = (POP OPENLIST) makes more sense to me than the flipped version. 02:30:32 about the notation CLHS uses to describe sintax. is it really BNF? is there any specification of it? 02:32:33 for example, literals not visually distinct from non-literals 02:32:37 antonv: 1.4.1.2, I think 02:32:49 guyal___ [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:56 Hm. Yes, I see that the ECL + clisp interpretations are probably more correct. Ugh. I like the less correct interpretation! 02:32:59 ;-) 02:33:11 -!- guyal__ [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:34 Bike: thanks, tried to find it in the past, but was unable 02:33:38 rpg: so did MIT ;) 02:34:19 pkhuong: Hm. I'm going to see if ITERATE has a more pleasing spec, and maybe this will be YA reason for me to stick to ITERATE. 02:35:03 Unfortunately, I use LOOP a bunch in code like my ASDF registry populator, before finding ITERATE is easy. 02:36:12 -!- ska80 [~user@203.146.146.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:06 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:37:15 Ah. Interesting: in the ITERATE manual they distinguish between uses of FOR that are DRIVERS and those that are simply binding constructs. The ones that cause me to put the clauses out of order are always binding constructs. 02:38:37 E.g., FOR = ... is not a driver.... 02:38:45 -!- rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:39:20 So my (ITER (WHILE OPENLIST) (FOR NEXT = (POP OPENLIST)) ...) seems more kosher in ITERATE. 02:40:15 *rpg* hopes that's true. 02:40:54 since there's I think only the one implementation, you can just try it and be more confident that it's kosher, at least? 02:49:50 Has anyone considered a style-warning in sbcl for less portable loop ordering like that? 02:50:24 jasom: I believe that's a low-level launchpad entry 02:56:47 cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:02:43 -!- benny [~user@i577A7AAF.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:03:19 another often non-standard code tolerated by some implementations and failing on other implementations is difference in lambda list betwen defgeneric and defmethod 03:12:05 for example this commit in cl-num-utils fixes such problem: https://github.com/tpapp/cl-num-utils/commit/b4c04819c01602318cf560f41fec850c1bc40b12 03:12:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:12:53 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:17 -!- SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:15:46 SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:29 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:58 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 03:25:08 -!- tiglog [~topeak@61.149.229.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-114-230.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:36:56 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:17 Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 03:40:29 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:41:12 good night, all! 03:41:52 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:43:06 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:44:05 -!- paul0 [~user@201.47.45.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:45:07 paul0 [~user@201.47.45.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:48:03 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:48:30 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 03:53:05 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 03:53:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:59:04 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:59:08 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:00:07 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:04:14 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:48 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:05:15 -!- bsamograd [~user@d50-99-109-246.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:12 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:21 rking [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 04:17:58 I somehow only just now learned about metabang-bind. Today is a good day. 04:26:14 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:37 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:46 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:35:46 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [] 04:39:20 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:39:52 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:55 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:26 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-106.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:44:58 hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:46:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:46:55 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 04:48:12 Bike [~Glossina@65-102-1-43.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:07 Fare [~fare@p18229-ipngn100402kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:58:16 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:44 -!- cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:01 -!- ryepup` [~user@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 05:04:16 tcr [~tcr@1.211.55.74] has joined #lisp 05:06:49 -!- springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:09:13 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:04 minion: chant 05:11:05 MORE CONFIDENT 05:14:30 benny [~user@i577A876A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:15:04 cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:16:31 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 05:18:42 why do I have to move a defvar declaration after the point where I declare a class? I am using slime to quickload it, which in my mind means sbcl is compiling it. If it is being compiled, why is it acting like an interpreter and executing statements in order? Is it unreasonable to assume that there is a lookup table? 05:19:10 -!- hiyosi [~hiyosi@138.95.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:19:39 cornihilio: paste? 05:20:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:20:19 <|3b|> that's how CL is defined 05:20:20 springz [~springz@123.151.195.1] has joined #lisp 05:20:55 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:21:20 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 05:21:45 <|3b|> you can evaluate arbitrary code during compilation, it isn't just a batch process like most language implementations 05:22:14 <|3b|> so order of side effects etc matters 05:22:56 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:23:22 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qydzdjbbqycuuudu] has joined #lisp 05:23:22 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qydzdjbbqycuuudu] has quit [Changing host] 05:23:23 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:23:37 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has joined #lisp 05:26:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:35 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has joined #lisp 05:32:03 ah, okay. 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08:00:37 Demosthenex [~Demosthen@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 08:01:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:01:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:04:29 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:04:33 bitonic [~user@5e0f8472.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:35 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-35-85.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16:45 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nbxxvqzegoudutng] has joined #lisp 08:17:22 mrcarrot [~user@unaffiliated/mrcarrot] has joined #lisp 08:18:32 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:19:33 I am going to teach some kids (14 years old) some programming. I wish I could teach them using a functional programming language (at least mostly functional). The problem is to find good material with graphical programs. 08:19:49 Is there any such material for LISP/Scheme/Any other dialect? 08:20:34 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:03 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has joined #lisp 08:22:54 -!- guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:23:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.113] has joined #lisp 08:23:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.56.113] has quit [Changing host] 08:23:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:24:26 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:36 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:26:15 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:28:10 mrcarrot: why not logo? 08:28:53 jdz: Logo could be an alternative. Do you have any good book I can use as base for the teaching? 08:29:12 mrcarrot: not really 08:29:14 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 08:29:17 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:29:18 Logo is after all a lisp dialect (at least the version I looked at some years ago) 08:29:55 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lqxhnuoktkepcwtz] has joined #lisp 08:29:55 yes, and it can feel like playing a game, which automatically makes kids to want to do it 08:30:48 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 08:31:10 I am open to any programming language (even such that I am not knowing myself) as long as I can find good material that can attract children. 08:31:12 logo? Nostalgia for childhood overload. If you start with logo, whatever you do, don't take it away to teach them pascal instead after a semester. They will hate you well into adulthood :) 08:31:28 mrcarrot: have you looked at scratch yet? 08:31:44 H4ns: No. I have no idea what scratch is. 08:31:53 it's not lisp! 08:32:03 mrcarrot: it's smalltalk 08:32:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xtygbbqgybfygozv] has joined #lisp 08:32:14 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xtygbbqgybfygozv] has quit [Changing host] 08:32:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:32:15 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 08:32:38 Ah, then it is not really functional. I would want to get them a mostly functional introduction. There are plenty of material for imperative programming. 08:32:47 yangzhiwei [~yang@180.126.46.145] has joined #lisp 08:33:04 A mostly functional beginning will help them to be better also if they move over to imperative later. 08:33:06 -!- ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qfzrwjqyphucarlu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:33:13 indoctrinating children is evil 08:33:15 uh, the "not fp" thing which is popping out every day now 08:34:26 -!- oubiwann [~oubiwann@c-98-207-167-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:35:12 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-lqxhnuoktkepcwtz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36:53 You know what? Try to make coding fun and leave ideology at home 08:37:21 Any kid will be a better coder if they like it. 08:37:39 -!- yangzhiwei [~yang@180.126.46.145] has left #lisp 08:37:49 Can you make it happen in lisp/functional/imperative? More power to you. 08:37:49 :) I hope I could give them both a good start and make them have fun at the same time. 08:38:20 I am not able to do it myself, that is why I am asking if anyone happens to know any good material. 08:38:40 If I can not find any good material, I have to give up on making it mostly functional. 08:39:16 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 08:39:44 There is plenty of material for python targeting children. (They even have turtle graphics) 08:40:54 writing turtle graphics in lisp would not be too hard. 08:41:59 pavelpenev: writing a good teaching text on lisp for kids would be hard 08:42:13 That is the problem :) 08:43:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@1.211.55.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:45:04 tcr [~tcr@1.211.55.74] has joined #lisp 08:45:36 hm, theres http://lisp.plasticki.com/ 08:46:37 Thanks. Will take a look at it. 08:47:15 Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:48:22 when I said it wouldn't be hard, I wasn't exaggerating, turtle graphics with capi: http://lisp.plasticki.com/list?EVN :) 08:48:59 From my experience, kids want to make graphical things nowadays. If a guide goes through lists, functions, and all other basics without ever touching anything graphical, they get bored (sadly) The basics needs to be coupled with graphical examples. 08:49:31 there is also http://blocky.io/ 08:51:15 add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:52:39 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 08:54:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-235.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:56:10 Looking at "Lisp in Small Parts" I wonder if there is something like this for clisp or sbcl: http://lisp.plasticki.com/show?HO 08:56:15 -!- cornihilio [~user@p6fd90806.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:42 Joreji [~thomas@67-235.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:51 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 08:58:18 the graphics part uses capi which is lispworks specific. LW personal edition is free, so you shouldn't have a problem. For SBCL you would have to rewrite the examples. 09:00:05 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:02:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-235.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:02:13 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 09:02:48 ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-aivtksoeefmvphtp] has joined #lisp 09:03:25 answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has joined #lisp 09:04:52 :( LispWorks seems to not exist for OpenBSD. This means I can not use LispWorks if I want to prepare lessons at my own computer. 09:05:57 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:07:11 doesn't OpenBSD have a linux compatibility layer? some of the other BSDs do. 09:07:29 mal_: It has but it is pretty outdated. 09:08:58 well, you can either rewrite the tutorial for some open source lisp using an open source graphics library, or you can run a vm :) 09:09:26 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 09:09:59 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:10:28 mrcarrot: so you want to teach your kids how to become a programmer in a marginalized environment with a marginalized language? :) 09:10:55 -!- kleppari [~spa@89-160-177-78.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:55 mrcarrot: not saying that it is bad, just joking. 09:10:58 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 09:11:24 H4ns: The school is not using OpenBSD... But there is a advantage to be able to prepare lessons at own computer. 09:11:39 mrcarrot: my son learned forth as his first language because when he wanted to learn programming, he did not speak enough english, and the only german book with a limited scope that i had was about forth :) 09:11:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:17 forth is a nice language. I still recommend ppl to read Brodie's Thinking Forth 09:12:20 mrcarrot: you could, say, install linux in a vm to make it easy for your pupils to try out things on their own computers. 09:12:45 mal_: definitely. forth is very nice and worth admiring. 09:13:51 H4ns: Sadly vm is one of the weaknesses of OpenBSD.. but anyway, I might prepare the lessons at school. My biggest problem is that if I am going to teach lisp, I need to learn it myself. I am familiar with FP (Haskell), but a new language takes a bit of effort from me also. 09:14:16 mrcarrot: lisp is not fp, if you thought that 09:14:25 hah! i fell into the "not fp" trap myself 09:14:27 This is why I would want to be able to run the same at home, as it takes a bit of time for me also to learn before I can teach. 09:14:50 H4ns: I know, you can write completely imperative code in Lisp. But it encourages at least FP. 09:15:03 mrcarrot: it does not. 09:15:09 yena [~yena@akasha.ayai.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:32 mrcarrot: not more than perl, ruby, javascript or any other language that has first-class functions and closures. 09:15:36 mrcarrot: thats scheme and clojure, common lisp is more "whatever its master wills" kind of language :) 09:18:11 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:24 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 09:23:04 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 09:28:11 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:28:34 Joreji [~thomas@80-213.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:32 ramkrsna__ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-flmiyyzknkfjyzxy] has joined #lisp 09:29:43 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 09:33:42 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-aivtksoeefmvphtp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 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Joreji [~thomas@92-179.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:28 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 11:42:14 -!- [SLB]` is now known as [SLB] 11:42:43 Joreji [~thomas@73-063.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:47:37 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:49:54 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has joined #lisp 11:49:54 superflit_ [~superflit@75-171-248-119.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:56 -!- superflit [~superflit@65-128-70-27.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:56 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 11:52:54 -!- bitonic [~user@5e0f8472.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:55:08 -!- vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hjduzapgbhvfgvnc] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:55:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:55:28 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:41 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has joined #lisp 12:05:57 rpg_ [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:10:14 mcmrphy [~mcmrphy@37.244.151.159] has joined #lisp 12:10:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:26 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 12:10:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/133316 any suggestions for this is simple ? 12:10:59 rwiker [~rwiker@235.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:10 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 12:11:17 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has joined #lisp 12:11:23 francogrex: look at cl:position 12:14:11 I strated with position but myvalue is not necessarily equal to any of the floats in val 12:14:16 started 12:14:26 it could be between two 12:14:34 hence the loop 12:17:14 but maybe there is a faster method (still using cl:position) ... 12:19:39 francogrex: cl:position takes :test 12:20:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: off to home] 12:20:36 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:20:59 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:34 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:24:52 newcup: hmm interesting 12:27:10 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 12:28:14 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:15 in any case avoid doing nth repeatedly 12:30:38 -!- mcmrphy [~mcmrphy@37.244.151.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:15 something (untested) like (loop for i from 0 for (a b) on list when (<= a target b) return i) 12:31:51 this will crash when the target needs to be put at the end since then b will be nil 12:34:13 `fogus [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:00 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:14 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.28.18] has joined #lisp 12:41:31 _nix00 [~Adium@101.228.125.147] has joined #lisp 12:43:41 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:43:52 g'hello 12:50:09 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has joined #lisp 12:52:27 bitonic [~user@wavelan76.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:53:58 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:41 gigamonkey [gigamonkey@nat/hackerschool.com/x-bqxnjbkunqtowlaw] has joined #lisp 12:55:51 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.28.18] has quit [Quit: jmIrc destroyed by the OS] 12:55:54 -!- tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:26 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@235.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:02:52 blackbox [~newblue@113.84.59.131] has joined #lisp 13:03:20 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:06:08 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:08:02 francogrex: iirc, you used ECL to cooperate with Excel, right? 13:11:59 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-202-4.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:12:28 hertz [~newblue@113.84.59.131] has joined #lisp 13:12:55 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:42 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan76.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:44 rwiker [~rwiker@235.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:17 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@235.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:14:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:17:26 catmtking 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14:22:22 -!- hertz_peng [~newblue@113.84.208.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:23:15 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:23:37 Fare [~fare@FLH1Acq098.kyt.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 14:24:27 francisl [~flavoie@199.84.164.114] has joined #lisp 14:24:30 bitonic [~user@wavelan76.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:25:20 Joreji [~thomas@67-163.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 14:28:03 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 14:31:42 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:11 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has joined #lisp 14:33:03 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:12 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:34:12 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:37 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:53 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:37:15 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:34 p_l|backup: Hi, are you still here: I used any lisp to connect to excel 14:38:00 francogrex: yeah, I seemed to recall you embedding ECL into Excel extension, is that right? 14:38:01 but what kind of connection do you want? 14:38:33 basically, an acquaintaince has been experimenting with porting calculations from Excel to Lisp, because the VBA code got unwieldy 14:39:16 p_l: what I did was to make a dll from ecl program and connect that to excel using VBA. 14:39:40 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:47 but I also used win-ole library to connect to excel it may be easier and more portable 14:40:24 honestly I sort of lost my VBA codes accidentally some time ago, but would like to get back to ecl -excel and remake them it wasn't that hard 14:41:09 josemanuel [~josemanue@179.242.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:59 any pointers? 14:44:57 p_l: if you want write me a message with what he needs and I will see what I can help him with: my email: francogrexATmailDOTcom 14:45:19 mail or gmail? 14:45:23 email 14:45:34 ah 14:45:44 thanks 14:45:55 no prob. I hope I can help 14:46:09 see you all later 14:46:13 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:46:43 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:50:27 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@24.68.50.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:44 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.12.72] has joined #lisp 14:52:59 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:04 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@179.242.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 14:56:35 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:30 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:30 -!- sellout42 is now known as sellout 15:01:00 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-anugveujialiqaqw] has joined #lisp 15:01:00 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-anugveujialiqaqw] has quit [Changing host] 15:01:00 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:05:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:05:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:06:58 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:18 hiteki [~user@120.29.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:22 hi 15:10:41 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:24 -!- Fare [~fare@FLH1Acq098.kyt.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:13:17 *Xach* eagerly awaits updates from ILC 15:13:54 ikki [~ikki@187.193.140.65] has joined #lisp 15:14:01 -!- Kvaks [~quassel@95.161.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-61.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:15:50 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:02 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:40 vasia19390902 [~vasia1939@95.53.26.10] has joined #lisp 15:17:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:18:41 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:19:17 -!- asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-71-191-43-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:20:23 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-142-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:09 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-202-4.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:22:09 tiripamwe [~tiripamwe@41.221.159.83] has joined #lisp 15:26:24 I'm having problems with hunchentoot. I'd like to define a callback to be called when a session is expired. I'm doing this by subclassing the easy-acceptor to add a acceptor-remove-session method. This method then calls a lambda saved in the new acceptor. Somehow my callback does not get called when the session expires after 50 sec. Does anyone know where I'm wrong?. https://gitorious.org/sepigo/sepigo/blobs/master/sepigo.lisp line 16 and 97 are relev 15:27:18 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:30:29 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:30:56 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:34 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:35 oh sourceforge! 15:31:35 -!- gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:31:41 *Xach* can't checkout sbcl 15:31:42 -!- sellout42 is now known as sellout 15:32:30 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:33:21 *dlowe* has been using the git mirror for years 15:33:53 -!- passionke [~Administr@58.100.49.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:06 sourceforge has a git repo for sbcl now 15:34:14 but it is not accepting connections 15:35:23 passionke 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joined #lisp 16:21:16 smazga [~acrid@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:39 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 16:23:47 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 16:25:06 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-195-196.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:26:21 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:34 -!- linse_ [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 16:28:42 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 16:29:12 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:46 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:32:12 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:39 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 16:33:53 agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:47 pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 16:36:04 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 16:36:04 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:25 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:36 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 AeroNotix [~xeno@bbh142.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:42:41 https://gist.github.com/3939986 why is this giving me "Nil is not a number" ? 16:43:15 (and I know it may not be the most idiomatic/correct implementation) 16:43:58 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 16:44:12 AeroNotix: when x = mid, (nth x l) = nil 16:44:20 You're past the end of l 16:44:27 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:46 AeroNotix: you're missing a pair of parentheses in that LET. 16:44:53 linse [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:44:54 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:58 Oh, man, I missed that :D 16:45:10 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:55 AeroNotix: compiling that function in SBCL will give you a lot of useful warnings. 16:45:57 mmm... 16:45:59 also, list is an undefined variable, (quicksort nil) will give you an error. 16:46:07 wonder, anyone using climacs for everyday hacking? 16:46:31 ams: wbooze is torturing himself I believe :) 16:46:38 thanks all 16:46:47 "The variable LENGTH is defined but never used," "Derived type of MID is (VALUES NULL &OPTIONAL), conflicting with its asserted type REAL.", "undefined variable: LIST". 16:47:01 pavelpenev: is it that bad? 16:47:34 well.. i just crashed it .. 16:47:35 hehe 16:48:13 ams: most of wbooze's contributions to this channel are revaluations about bugs in mcclim. 16:48:16 and again 16:48:36 pavelpenev: got a list? 16:48:50 you can probably grep the logs :) 16:49:18 not very useful probably. 16:49:43 so wbooze's comments are equally useful. 16:50:37 -!- adx [~adx@pool-108-28-109-140.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:50:41 (mostly since i like mcclim) 16:51:05 me, I gave up on the desktop with lisp until I can afford a lispworks license and instead bought the bullet and am struggling with web apps for the moment. mcclim doesn't seem to be worth the trouble. 16:52:06 i'll never buy lispworks unless they change their license to something ethtically and morally ok. 16:52:21 AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has joined #lisp 16:52:30 someone wrote back in the day a clim to web thingie .. 16:52:47 how much did that bullet cost ya 16:53:10 cwest i think it was called .. 16:54:29 oh noes .. clsoure isn't available from ql 16:54:48 punee: hehe, every once in a while my English betrays me :) 16:55:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:55:18 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:56:15 -!- AlbireoX`Laptop [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:28 ams: what awful thing did lispworks do? 16:56:43 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has joined #lisp 16:57:17 dlowe: it is under a draconian non-free software license. 16:57:48 interesting ... wayland 1.0 is released. 16:58:06 samograd [~user@d50-99-109-246.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:45 *nydel* is away: bbs doc 16:59:24 *pavelpenev* prays #lisp avoids the license flame this time :) 16:59:48 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:27 usualy a good way to start a flame war is to asssume that one will break out instead of assuming that people can discuss things in a friendly manner ... 17:03:24 usually people are horrified by allegro more than lispworks 17:03:27 DrPete [~DrPete@unaffiliated/drpete] has joined #lisp 17:03:46 Oh, i'm horrified by both :-) 17:05:09 GPL is best PL 17:05:18 The only path to freedom. 17:06:46 AGPL FTW 17:06:46 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:07 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:16 whatever. 17:07:31 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:09:56 -!- bitonic [~user@wavelan76.dynip.doc.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:10:26 -!- sweet_kid [abeyance@unaffiliated/changednicks] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12:26 rookiejet [~mazen@69-165-165-241.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:37 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.12.72] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 17:12:44 What is the easiest graphical toolkit? (clisp or sbcl) 17:13:01 mrcarrot: imho? clim 17:13:16 changedNicks [diamb@irc.upasna.in] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 adx [~adx@pool-108-28-109-140.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:27 ouch 17:13:59 ams: Thanks! Is it something that is included by default? 17:14:03 mrcarrot: in terms of "getting shit done", I'd go with CommonQT. Steep, but should have least issues 17:14:07 mrcarrot: Included by default? 17:14:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:14:29 ams: With a standard distribution of clisp? 17:14:45 Or is it something I need to download additionally. I am after all pretty new to lisp. 17:14:47 mrcarrot: i don't use clisp. 17:14:57 i'm kinda special. 17:14:57 Okay. So sbcl then. 17:15:14 -!- gigamonkey [gigamonkey@nat/hackerschool.com/x-rbzqaqlpmrgzkmgm] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 17:15:19 mrcarrot: but no, it does not come "standard" with common lisp; it is a library that you can install via quicklisp or whatever. 17:15:39 mrcarrot: I'd say to wait a moment before jumping into GUIs 17:15:55 it's faster to get a web ui running, IMO, and with less problems 17:16:16 eh? found it harder .. go figure. 17:16:27 -!- rookiejet [~mazen@69-165-165-241.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 17:17:00 you ave to like ... do html stuff ... and stuff .. 17:17:31 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 17:18:22 p_l: mrcarrot wants to teach teenagers programming using graphics in a functional-ish language. the web will probably not suit him, unless he decides to go with javascript(might not be such a bad Idea, as my lisper bias tells me :) 17:19:00 ahhh 17:19:02 nyef [~nyef@c-76-119-183-159.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:39 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:20:02 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@bbh142.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:20:24 mrcarrot: commonQT is popular, so is LTK, there is also cl-gtk. mcclim is barely maintained(if at all) and is buggy, and is for hardcore fans only :) 17:20:44 Is LTK well maintained? 17:20:55 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:00 I am looking for something that is as easy to use as possible, not as complete as possible. 17:21:20 it compiles :) 17:21:23 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has joined #lisp 17:21:46 Also, what is the opinions about the lisp implementations if you have to pick between clisp and sbcl? ams seems to favor sbcl. 17:22:04 *nyef* wouldn't touch CLISP with a ten-foot snide remark. 17:22:05 sbcl is natively compiled, clisp compiles to bytecode, so is slower 17:22:06 mrcarrot: where did you get that? 17:22:14 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:17 mrcarrot: depends what you're doing. CLISP is not bad, but SBCL tends to have a bit better library coverage, IMO 17:22:24 I didn't imply that i favored sbcl ... more that i was special. 17:22:42 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has joined #lisp 17:22:49 ams: mrcarrot: i don't use clisp. 17:22:50 As far as UI goes, the "easy" thing is to use hunchentoot and a web browser. 17:23:03 mrcarrot: right, where did i mention sbcl? 17:23:04 xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:20 (Right now I use hunchentoot, send JSON, and let someone else build the UI on top of that.) 17:23:21 ams: Nowhere.. I just guessed then. 17:23:40 on a mac, there is the option to use ccl and its objective-c support 17:24:00 nyef: With a web browser you have more difficult to make pictures in a "logo turtle" way 17:24:26 Surely there's an AJAX library for that already? 17:24:33 mrcarrot: you might find the #lispgames channel helpful for all things graphics :) 17:24:39 I am hoping to have a simple toolkit that allows to color pixels in a frame. 17:24:53 mrcarrot: very easy with canvas and javascript. 17:24:57 mrcarrot: lispbuilder-sdl might be helpful 17:25:56 sdl is not really what I am thinking about. I am more thinking about a traditional toolkit but with the addition of simple pixel graphics. 17:26:32 clim .. garnet .. 17:26:56 mrcarrot: CommonQT lets use QTs paint interfaces, which don't seem that bad 17:26:58 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 17:27:31 mrcarrot: in the end, you'll have to try different things and see what works well. 17:27:40 p_l: Is CommonQT well maintained? 17:27:55 mrcarrot: pretty well 17:28:09 though I recommend SBCL for use with it, at least on Linux 17:28:31 Is it working both on linux and windows? The school is running linux but the pupils have probably windows at home. They should be able to work from home too. 17:28:31 (CCL works too, and might be slightly better option on windows - but windows adds some extra gotchas you need to take care of) 17:29:01 mrcarrot: if you prepare a packaged directory of CCL 1.8 + apropriate native libs, it will be fine 17:29:12 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.153.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:19 Okay. 17:32:25 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 17:32:29 food.. 17:32:37 you just need to make sure that the smoke wrapper libs and Qt libs are compiled using the same C++ runtime and use the same runtime 17:33:12 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 17:33:14 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-gyzsiezbzfevxvsp] has joined #lisp 17:37:54 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:38:28 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-81-169-220.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:38:28 kmels [~kmels@p5B13FA5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:58 -!- cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:53 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 17:42:04 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 17:42:07 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 17:45:30 has anyone used smoke to build wrapper libs for non Qt stuff (with the intent to use it under CFFI)? 17:45:59 *jasom* tried and it seems to segfault if he looks at it funny 17:48:20 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:01 jasom: sleep. 17:50:25 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:51:29 -!- changedNicks [diamb@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Changing host] 17:51:30 changedNicks [diamb@unaffiliated/changednicks] has joined #lisp 17:51:43 -!- changedNicks is now known as sweet_kid 17:55:21 -!- strobegen [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:55:37 strz [~strobegen@64.120.223.138] has joined #lisp 17:55:53 -!- strz is now known as strobegen 17:59:38 yena [~yena@akasha.ayai.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:03 -!- hiteki [~user@120.29.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:01 -!- ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:15 VickyIyer [~vivek_ram@122.167.225.200] has joined #lisp 18:02:27 peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:49 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:41 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:08:57 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 18:11:39 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 18:11:56 -!- NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has left #lisp 18:12:56 Is there a way to request sbcl to explain the deleting unreachable code compiler note beyond the note itself in the compilation output? 18:14:00 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@2.192-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:14:29 gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has joined #lisp 18:14:37 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.62.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:54 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@2.192-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:15:03 yena: none right now, and it would be hard to implement. In fact, it's already a hard problem to define and specify precisely. 18:16:45 There are three main reasons: the function is never called, an error will always happen before (but those are usually reported as warnings or style warnings), and one of the dominating conditions (for branches like if/cond/case/typecase) is always true or always false (usually the one closest to the unreachable code) 18:19:16 -!- VickyIyer [~vivek_ram@122.167.225.200] has quit [] 18:19:21 madnificent: reworked a bit of scriptl .. fixed the permissions issue (per-user domain socket) and added piping ;) 18:19:49 and a custom client so no netcat dependency, though you can still use the old stuff 18:19:56 -!- gko [~user@220.228.255.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:46 ezakimak [~nick@ns1.nickleippe.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:22:03 pkhuong: thanks for the explanation, I had suspected as much. I'm puzzled because the note is issued only when I use the adjust-array or vector-push-extend functions from deep inside some nested if forms containing an inner cond form, and other functions like length in the same location do not trigger the note. I've been able to work out previous unreachable code notes by creating simplified test cases, but this one is defying such a debugging approach, so far. 18:22:46 I need a cache. I tried using a hash-table with :weakness :value, but that gets reclaimed ASAP. what's the standard way for that? 18:24:13 Should I have a list of data, and register some nearly-oom-callback in my sbcl somewhere? 18:24:15 yena: using v-p-e ensures that the array argument has a fill pointer. 18:24:41 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-nbxxvqzegoudutng] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:11 yena: so later checks for fill-pointerness or simple-array-ness can be optimised away, for example. 18:26:21 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 18:26:24 flip214: http://common-lisp.net/project/trivial-garbage/ might be useful 18:28:20 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:29:47 snearch [~snearch@f053000097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:30:30 pavelpenev: thanks al lot, will take a look. 18:30:34 *a lot 18:31:55 pkhuong: but even when I change the cond form's conditional to something like (> 1 0) to always force it to eval true, sbcl reports it deletes the vector-push-extend. What really has me thrown for a loop is when I insert an adjust-array before the v-p-e, so I'm not sure how such a call could be optimized away (unless sbcl is trying to tell me that it is extending by more than one element and my calls to extend the vector again are extraneous). The compiler note i 18:31:56 lifted from the v-p-e, and shifts to the adjust-array. I'm a noob, so I thought it had to be something like unbalanced parens, so I picked up Paredit, learned how to use it, deleted everything, and retyped everything by hand with Paredit in place, and still got the compiler note. Armed with your hints, I'm hopeful some more test cases will help me track these notes down and eliminate them at the source. 18:33:35 yena: you could paste the code and all the notes and warnings 18:34:45 also, just executing the function might be enlightening. 18:35:02 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 18:36:35 Hm, if someone wants to look at some atrocious code, it is here https://github.com/automaticit/cl-isemail (paste.lisp.org said there was too much). It compiles with only two notes so far, and the code is incomplete, but I'll try running the function and single stepping to see what happens (I hadn't thought that would reveal anything until I had finished the function and it compiled cleanly). 18:37:29 eslg [~ulgen@92.243.190.94] has joined #lisp 18:38:30 yena: this is why lexers where invented. 18:39:44 yena: I'm not even going to read this. What are the notes? 18:40:39 gigamonkey [gigamonkey@nat/hackerschool.com/x-fnoalbthcybfoesw] has joined #lisp 18:40:54 What is the best way to dive into lisp for somebody that has been doing programming before in other languages? What would be the "standard" tutorial? 18:41:08 pkhuong: compiler notes at http://paste.lisp.org/+2UVE 18:41:09 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.91] has joined #lisp 18:41:22 yena: make-array doesn't do what you think it does. The first argument is the dimensions. 18:41:51 minion: tell mrcarrot about pcl 18:41:51 mrcarrot: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:42:36 and for "entry" to programming in general, and symbolic programmin specifically, get gentle introduction - it also has small funny program sketching the structure of lists in ascii graphics 18:42:46 minion: gentle? 18:42:47 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 18:43:06 Thanks! 18:43:06 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:40 for teaching kids, Land of Lisp might be good, but it's not available for free. It is, however, based around the "good old days" of home computer magazines having game listings written in various languages (usually basic) 18:45:08 ams: yes, I would normally use a lexer, but I chose to port this as an exercise for myself that is more involved than another Towers of Hanoi. 18:46:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@182.48.109.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 18:47:54 pkhuong: hm, I used the make-array syntax shown in http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/lisp/LispTutorial2.html to create variable-length vectors. The first make-array call you saw referred to a constant with value 0, so the intention was to create a variable-length vector of length 0, to mimic the original PHP code. 18:48:37 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:48:51 I don't know, you're using symbolic constants as lengths it's hard to tell what you mean. 18:51:24 the context stack is strangely initialised, for instance. I also don't see why you introduce variables and then assign to them. 18:52:50 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-35-85.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:53:35 "A Real Programmer can write FORTRAN code in any language"? 18:53:41 CoverSlide [~richard@pool-173-55-83-220.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:16 In my experience, the first step when doing a (successful) port is to understand what the original does, not to try and transliterate everything. 18:55:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 18:56:06 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:56:17 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-37-170.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:54 cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has joined #lisp 18:57:08 well said pkhuong, not many people starting out understand that! i for one has fell into that trap before 18:57:23 -!- `fogus|lunch [~fogus@burke-matrex.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:13 I've done a successful port of some tricky code by careful successive refactoring until I understood what it did, and then rewrote the logic to work in the new environment. 18:59:41 Right, I've found it really useful to refactor the original to verify my assumptions. 19:00:51 I also ended up with something drastically simpler and easier to understand, but only because my target environment had a feature that the original did not. 19:01:58 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.24.120] has joined #lisp 19:02:01 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 in the (loop) macro, how can I add an additional variable to the iteration? I want to calculate a score for each element in the list I loop over and store that. 19:02:43 <|3b|> reactormonk: you can have as many WITH and FOR clauses as you want 19:03:11 pkhuong: hm, that gives me some ideas to work with. I'll try refactoring the original first. The context stack is something just transliterated from the original, so I'll look at that. The way the variables are introduced and then assigned was also a transliteration; I wasn't sure when the original was going to first assign, and I felt that debugging this would be too difficult without a baseline assignment up front that the original code did, so I copied that. 19:04:00 |3b|, but not per element in the loop - If the with clause contains an = value-form part, the variable will be initialized, before the first iteration of the loop, to the value of value-form. 19:04:33 <|3b|> right, if you want it reinitialized every iteration you use FOR instead of WITH 19:06:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:20 |3b|, oh 19:08:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.193.140.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:08:41 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:54 |3b|, for choice in choices by score-function ? 19:09:07 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:13 *|3b|* suspects not, but can't tell without context 19:09:59 <|3b|> if CHOICES is a list and SCORE-FUNCTION is a variable containing a function that iterates over that list then maybe 19:10:17 lemme construct an example 19:10:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-163.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:11:02 <|3b|> (loop for value in list for derived-value = (function-of value) ...) ? 19:11:53 |3b|, http://pastie.org/private/iohrt21e1ydpirmeqkuxgg 19:12:58 |3b|, basically yes. 19:14:58 Harag [~phil@dsl-244-155-30.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-244-155-30.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 19:17:14 ngz [~user@194.85.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:02 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.24.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:16 best way to get linux environmental variables in commonlisp? 19:21:21 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-042-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:28 best i can think is to use run-shell-command to output "env" to a file then read the file, that seems sloppy 19:21:36 is there a better way? 19:21:49 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:22:17 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 19:22:47 nydel: osicat 19:22:51 nydel, getenv - in various packages, depending on the interpreter 19:23:25 nydel: also a lot of implementations have a specific way to get it (e.g. require 'posix on sbcl) 19:24:08 er sb-posix rather 19:24:10 reactormonk: oh thanks, clisp '(getenv)' worked just fine. strange i had no luck finding any clues online searching. 19:24:22 nydel: https://github.com/sabetts/stumpwm/blob/master/wrappers.lisp#L110 19:24:47 guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 19:25:19 nydel: it should be here: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes.html but I'm getting a 502 on that page right now 19:25:19 oh osicat looks fun jasom 19:27:52 daimrod: a lot of these take a string and a var -- what is the var? 19:27:59 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:29:08 nydel, if you want to set it? 19:30:00 nydel: var is the name of the argument took by the function getenv. 19:31:48 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 19:32:00 thanks everyone 19:32:13 Vinici [~Charles@177.43.35.91] has joined #lisp 19:32:15 AeroNotix [~xeno@bbh142.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:32:52 '(/ 7 2) 19:32:55 (/ 7 2) 19:33:03 is there an in-channel repl? 19:33:18 !(/ 7 2) 19:33:25 no, use M-x slime 19:34:09 AeroNotix: general consensus on #lisp seemed to be that it created too much noise. though a repl should be a command away :) 19:34:12 or emacs 19:34:27 -!- gigamonkey [gigamonkey@nat/hackerschool.com/x-fnoalbthcybfoesw] has quit [Quit: gigamonkey] 19:34:43 ok 19:35:13 AeroNotix: why would you have wanted one? what were you trying to show? 19:35:15 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 19:35:40 madnificent: I wanted to not get things like (/ 7 2) to show as 7/2 19:35:46 i.e. I want 3 19:35:58 AeroNotix: (round (/ 7 2)) 19:36:07 that's it 19:36:09 clhs floor 19:36:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm 19:36:14 (truncate 7 2) 19:36:16 floor wasn't it either 19:36:21 didn't find trunucate 19:36:43 AeroNotix: lisp can calculate with 7/2 as an exact value, not as something in between. entering 6/3 will give you 2, for instance. but 7/2... not :) 19:37:09 truncate will round towards zero which is what most integer divides do in other languages 19:37:20 well, common lisp could return 3.5 which is exact as well. 19:37:37 ty all 19:38:06 AeroNotix: you can also coerce it to a 'float... 19:38:08 ams: nope, it has to return a ratio, not a float; 3.5 would be a float 19:38:18 No, it couldn't. 3.5 would be a float representation, and #'/ is required to return a ratio or an integer if the arguments are all integers. 19:38:25 bitonic [~user@host86-138-143-172.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:59 ams: reference http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_sl.htm 19:39:32 was thinking about maclisp. 19:39:38 but hyperspec is not ansi cl. 19:39:54 ams: What? 19:40:04 ams: ??? 19:40:31 read the first paragraph. 19:40:44 It is based on that standard 19:40:49 kleppari [~spa@89-160-141-139.du.xdsl.is] has joined #lisp 19:40:57 yes, and it is not the standard. 19:41:00 No, the standard and the hyperspec are based on the same document. 19:41:02 which is what i just said, it is not ansi cl. 19:41:10 the standard is the standard. 19:41:22 They are largely equivalent, however. 19:41:24 next thing you know ctl1 and ctl2 are standard as well since the ansi spec is based on that .. 19:41:27 It is not the document x3.226 but anywhere that they differ is an error in the hyperspec 19:41:48 CLtL1 is a standards document, CLtL2 is explicitly not. 19:42:07 uhm, no, cltl1 is not a standards document 19:42:31 Yes, it is. It is the '84 standard for Common Lisp. 19:43:05 it is a defacto document of something that became common lisp, but it is not a standard, it wasn't standrdized by anyone. 19:43:06 It's also the document that X3J13 started with in producing the ANSI standard. 19:43:14 indeed, back in 84 you had quite alot of lisps 19:43:40 ams: It was standardized by Guy Steele, Scott Fahlman Richard Gabriel David Moon and Daniel Weinreb 19:44:10 jasom: no, it wasn't. just cause some bunch of random people write a book doesn't make it a standard. 19:44:19 infact, most implementations back then did NOT follow ctl1 at all 19:44:19 ams: you're right. At least half the current implementations are basing their work on the same but wrong document. 19:44:39 21:44 /ignore pkhuong 19:44:41 ignoring trolls. 19:45:15 ams wrote cltl3, it is now standard. 19:45:25 ... I think that says it all. 19:45:26 hiteki [~user@120.29.100.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:29 oh, it is also based on r8rs which isn't even written. 19:46:04 and if we wanna be picky, ctcl is based on the chinual, so i guess that was a standard as well. 19:47:00 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:41 ams: ignoring me can mean something. but coming in here as a total douche, time after time, and assuming people like pkhuong are trolls shows extremely little respect. iiuc, you come from the old generation of lispers. those that got the name of being a shitty community to enter. i'd greatly appreciate it if you'd head back to 1981 and stay there. thank you! 19:48:24 21:48 /ignore madnificent 19:48:31 ams: you did that last time 19:48:48 i don't have time with people who are angry to the bone 19:48:57 Joreji [~thomas@67-163.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:05 ams: but... that's you 19:50:38 cltl3? googleing for it says where the idea came from... 19:50:52 drewc: you're thinking of the wrong cltl3. 19:51:52 huh 19:52:23 hullo 19:52:37 *drewc* just saw cltl3 and did a (FIND 'cltl3 ...) 19:53:02 wbooze: hello hello 19:53:21 there's a cltl3 ? 19:53:35 hi drewc, lo ams 19:53:36 wbooze: ams was being sarcastic 19:53:42 ah 19:53:45 not yet 19:53:48 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:50 nooy [1000@h-155-42.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 19:54:37 *snicker* but it is standard! someone wrote it! ;-) 19:55:31 actually, no one wrote it, afaik. there was a bunch of proposals, and then the ML died ;) 19:55:58 a standard is what it is, a standard. someone endorsing the standard raises its perceived value. so if someone writes a book, and it's used as a standard, then i'd wager that it doesn't matter that no one endorsed it. 19:56:11 see also K&R C 19:56:41 anyway, hyperspec is as close to usable standard as we have, being generated from, afaik, the same tex source that the ansi cl document was generated. Also consider the fact that the currently-available electronic form of ANSI CL is badly-scanned bitmaps-in-pdf copy of the printed one 19:57:14 *ams* has it niceley printed since ages. 19:58:22 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-042-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:59:23 yay 19:59:38 after not using lisp for about ~1.5 years I implemented qsort 19:59:38 though i never really liked cl ... 19:59:59 https://gist.github.com/3941171 20:00:05 tell me how badly I did... 20:00:07 ams: dare I ask why you're here if you never really liked cl? 20:00:23 jasom: maybe he likes another impl/ 20:00:25 ? 20:00:34 lol 20:00:36 jasom: i'm sorry if it insults your sensibilities of not adoring, loving, common lisp. 20:00:43 bitonic` [~user@host86-138-143-172.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:48 C-c C-d h <--- the hyperspec 20:01:07 ams: it doesn't insult my sensibilities, but I don't go to #hurd or whatever and say how much I don't like GNU Hurd 20:01:07 jasom: i forgot that common lisp people think that common lisp is perfect, the gospel of pitman, and the bible of moon. 20:01:18 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-143-172.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:01:40 we don't 20:01:44 Would I be so bold as to step in between this flamewar and ask for feedback? https://gist.github.com/3941171 20:01:51 we just point out the /topic 20:01:56 jasom: well honey, as a hurd hacker, i don't like the hurd, it has a lot of architecual problems, and alot of nice thingies, just like common lisp. 20:01:58 AeroNotix: why is it so weirdly indented? 20:02:12 pkhuong: not sure, I just use emac's autoindent 20:02:15 but yeah, apologies, apologies for not being blind 20:02:39 pkhuong: oh shit - I didn't actually view the gist 20:02:43 AeroNotix: mm.. atrocious :-) 20:02:43 AeroNotix: capital X is probably more commonly written x. some people advise not going over 100 characters in width. you probably want to accept an &key for the sorting, which you can default to #'< 20:02:45 pkhuong: I used the M-x gist-region 20:02:51 AeroNotix: (setq-default indent-tabs-mode nil) 20:03:15 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 20:03:16 I think it may be more the M-x gist command, when I paste it using c+p, it looks fine 20:03:43 madnificent: what's the name for what you're doing? (I have PCL in front of me if you have a page number/reference) 20:03:57 ams: so... you're just here as a gumption trap? 20:04:04 also, what happens when there are duplicate elements, say (list 1 1 1 1 1)? I'd try a bit of experimental algorithmic as well, just to make sure runtime scales roughly like n log n. 20:04:30 pkhuong: 1 1 1 1 1 should be fine 20:04:38 AeroNotix: well, the lowercase X is just that. however i was hinting that you may want to keep the interface of quicksort to bet he same as that of common lisp's sort. 20:05:13 pkhuong: yikes, (qsort (list 1 1 1 1 1)) gives (1) 20:05:13 AeroNotix: have you tried it? 20:05:14 AeroNotix: also, picking a random pivot point is good practice. and furthermore, i haven't concentrated on reading it. (oh, i personally dislike #'(lambda ...) but taste differs) 20:05:48 madnificent: random pivot is best pivot. I agree. Wasn't sure how to do that in lisp. 20:05:49 I like to use full words as variable names in lisp, or, at least, avoid bare "l" in any language. 20:05:58 pkhuong: agree, was being lazy 20:06:28 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:06:42 AeroNotix: (random (length list)) 20:06:46 AeroNotix: i kinda meant that there are (imho) prettier ways to write quicksort if one wants to have fun 20:06:57 AeroNotix: random takes an argument indicating the upper bound. you can take (random (length l)) to get a pivot point in the complete list. 20:07:07 AeroNotix: there are more important issues than the pivot choice in that code. 20:07:13 jasom: aha 20:07:30 *madnificent* was focussing on the style 20:07:32 ams: I'm reimplementing it from another language, just (re)getting the hang of lispin' 20:07:36 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:39 AeroNotix: nod 20:08:01 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:06 I'm not sure why (list 1 1 1 1 1) returns (1) 20:08:15 Also you need <= or >= on one side of the split if you can have multiple items with same key 20:08:16 maybe I should make one side <= 20:08:23 yeah ^^ 20:08:30 and then you can remove the middle item in append 20:08:30 that'll make it include the pivot 20:08:53 darn yeah 20:09:18 It seems to me it'd make more sense to reimplement quicksort on mutable arrays, and mergesort on lists, in CL. 20:09:25 you can change your terminating condition to be if either side is empty 20:09:37 then you can include the pivot 20:09:38 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:10:13 pkhuong: i don't think this code is meant to be practical. but yes. 20:10:22 (if anyone's interested, I'm making it for this: https://github.com/AeroNotix/algostructure) 20:10:43 AeroNotix: see also rosettacode 20:10:50 jasom: that's cheating ;) 20:10:50 jasom: how does that work? If I'm unlucky and pivot on the maximum/minimum element, one of the sides is empty, but I'm not done. 20:11:06 pkhuong: you're right 20:11:37 It's not like it's in place; a three-way split won't be harder, and avoids a lot of bad cases. 20:11:46 true 20:12:12 that makes a lot of sense; I haven't implemented quicksort since college, since cache-aware mergesort is almost always faster 20:12:31 I've not implemented mergesort yet (check: https://github.com/AeroNotix/algostructure) 20:12:44 My favourite just for kicks was SleepSort 20:12:54 (in Go/sleepsort.go) 20:13:23 But again, I really think you'll find it interesting to TIME things and to sort lists of various length just to see how things scale. 20:13:44 That's basically just an obfuscated bucket-sort 20:13:51 jasom: sleepsort? 20:13:56 yup 20:14:17 pkhuong: I have a nice Makefile which compares them all and spits out the values. I have best/worst/average test cases 20:14:18 randomsort is the best. 20:14:23 vegassort! 20:14:51 quantumsort - randomize the input, if it's not sorted, destroy the universe 20:15:03 AeroNotix: have you plotted the results? 20:15:05 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 20:15:07 though I guess you could sort floats with sleep-sort, which is harder to do with bucket sort 20:15:14 pkhuong: not yet, I will be doing. Mem/CPU/SLOC 20:15:40 jasom: I didn't try with floats. I'm not sure the ctor of the Go Duration type takes floats 20:15:51 but outside of Go, sure. 20:16:14 jasom: not really. Convert them to sign/magnitude integers. 20:16:38 pkhuong: true 20:17:09 I was thinking actual reals, not floats 20:17:18 but nobody uses reals 20:17:26 well not usually 20:17:56 timsort is next on my cards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timsort) I usually start in Go/C++ but I might just jump in with CLisp and test my chops. 20:18:04 and the sleep sort has a minimum resolution that is just ill-specified so it would be like sorting into buckets of some minimum range 20:18:34 yeah it's a bit of a joke algo but I quite like it, it made me laugh when I read about it 20:18:56 bogo sort ftw 20:19:14 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.4.18] has joined #lisp 20:19:43 How would a lisp prefix trie be to code? 20:19:48 quite a nooby with lisp 20:20:10 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:19 AeroNotix: I would do it in a struct. 20:20:32 so who will win the presidancy in the states? 20:20:33 *AeroNotix* lisp has structs....blinks 20:20:45 It also has classes 20:20:50 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:20:51 and hash-tables 20:21:02 it even has arrays, which make a lot more sense for quicksort. 20:21:04 niec 20:21:10 I'll check it out 20:21:19 ams: chocolote! 20:21:19 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:21:21 I've got PCL here and a train ride this week so I'll dig it 20:21:23 in 20:21:23 AeroNotix: it also has numbers!!!! 20:21:27 wbooze: oooo 20:21:29 ams: is it 20:21:34 lol 20:22:12 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 20:22:22 can I have a recursive definition of a struct? 20:22:36 AeroNotix: yeah yeah, in common lisp you wrte 1 as '(()), and two as '((())), 23 as '((()) ((()))) 20:22:37 AeroNotix: make sure you have a computer on the train ride so you can hack whilst you read 20:23:00 madnificent: unfortunately no :( 20:23:12 ams: that's really cool man 20:23:21 bitonic` [~user@host86-133-193-63.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:55 Can I havea field of a struct which is a pointer (or lisp equivalent) to the same struct? 20:24:22 ams: you ain't helping dude. 20:24:25 AeroNotix: yes, ofcourse. 20:24:38 i.e. https://gist.github.com/3941302 20:24:41 like that 20:24:59 AeroNotix: ams is trolling, don't blame lisp 20:25:18 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-138-143-172.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:25:20 madnificent: I gathered. No skin off my nose :) 20:25:28 AeroNotix: look at defstruct 20:25:34 ams: will do 20:25:40 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:41 (defstruct node (left nil :type (or node null)) (right nil :type (or node null)) 20:25:49 sweet 20:25:54 gonna play with this 20:25:56 thanks all 20:25:58 afk 20:26:01 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@bbh142.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 20:27:10 Fare [~fare@FLH1Acq098.kyt.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 20:27:24 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c21d8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:24 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 20:28:48 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:31:56 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:32:45 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 20:35:08 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-226-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 20:36:53 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:35 gigamonkey [gigamonkey@nat/hackerschool.com/x-fldvtszhrxieodlz] has joined #lisp 20:37:57 fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-33-2.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:46 oGMo: cool! i'll check it out once i have the time to do so. looking forward to it! 20:39:09 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:44 -!- fihi09`` [~user@pool-96-224-36-198.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:49 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:43:38 hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-89-217-68-82.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:45:48 -!- eslg [~ulgen@92.243.190.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:47:49 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:48:18 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[Quit: leaving] 22:18:58 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:04 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:23 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@203.80-203-124.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:23:02 clariprincess [~princesit@190.200.20.138] has joined #lisp 22:24:53 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:26:23 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.50] has joined #lisp 22:29:06 http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20Machine%20Videos  have any of you got a working mirror of the videos? All the links here on cliki seem to be stale. 22:32:43 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:01 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@190.200.20.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:26 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: cpc26] 22:39:41 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-138-31-117.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:25 hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:40:39 clariprincess [~princesit@190.200.20.138] has joined #lisp 22:42:26 kpñ 22:45:50 -!- hilbert [~Hilbert@adsl-89-217-68-82.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:46:31 antoszka: searching for "Rainer Joswig" on youtube gives me a few(all?) of his lisp machine videos. 22:48:13 -!- hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:55 hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:51:57 -!- hiro3 [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.222.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:53:49 at ILC, and discussing on how to kill 80% libraries and have 100% libraries instead 22:53:52 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-93-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 22:54:05 For pattern-matching, I'm declaring fare-matcher mostly dead, and moving to optima. 22:54:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:53 ikki [~ikki@189.196.100.236] has joined #lisp 22:57:28 Fare: glad you are here, you are why I logged back in! /querying you know :) 22:59:42 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:02:27 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@dhcp-199-74-100-95.res-hall.northwestern.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:51 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 23:04:00 logged back in what/where? 23:04:18 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-193-63.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:19 I'm hoping to declare cl-match dead, too. Will contact authors/maintainers. 23:04:43 -!- b0ef [~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:00 b0ef [~user@52.168.102.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 23:05:06 drewc, I have a service to ask regarding lil 23:05:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:25 I failed to record my talk at ILC (and had to cut short because I was going overtime) 23:05:57 so would you be my public in a recorded hangout presenting the same material? 23:06:06 should take ~1 hour I suppose. 23:06:51 (if anyone else is interested in a hangout, we could to it some time) 23:06:58 oh shit, time to actually go there 23:07:40 -!- clariprincess [~princesit@190.200.20.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:13 Fare: thank god no one else uses (: 23:09:28 yena_ [~yena@cpe-72-177-30-155.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:43 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:06 -!- yena [~yena@akasha.ayai.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:12:06 -!- yena_ is now known as yena 23:12:58 pkhuong, you could recommend optima in documents that mention xt-pattern. 23:13:18 I've just created a cliki page for optima and modified the fare-matcher page to point to it with a recommendation 23:13:29 I'm hoping to do the same with cl-match, after contacting authors. 23:14:39 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:18:26 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:19:48 5EXAAAU6Y [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:20:20 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@85-130-11-8.2073813645.shumen.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:21:10 Fare: the generated code really isn't quite as nice ;) 23:22:03 pkhuong, which? the code by optima? 23:22:30 which is nicer, yours or the nip's? 23:25:00 the code in optima. But optima gets the 80% that doesn't require a weird generator. 23:25:40 -!- agumonkey [~agu@183.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:26:15 well, if you have suggestions, can you mail me and the optima author? I'd like to consolidate the pattern matching library space. 23:26:27 and I'm also starting to contact authors of data structure libraries 23:26:34 consolidation is needed there, too 23:29:00 Jubb [~ghost@pool-71-163-107-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:52 -!- Fare [~fare@FLH1Acq098.kyt.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:31:09 asciilifeform [~asciilife@pool-71-191-43-115.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:12 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:42:09 -!- 5EXAAAU6Y [~hiro@p210079202073.cnh.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:30 -!- passionke [~Administr@58.100.49.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:07 passionke [~Administr@58.100.49.37] has joined #lisp 23:45:25 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m90-130-54-12.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:46:23 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 23:46:32 clariprincess [~princesit@190.200.20.138] has joined #lisp 23:53:16 regarding killing 80% and moving to 100% - what's the status of ownership for cl-user.net? Or should we get a new directory (integrated with quicklisp perhaps)? 23:54:40 bitonic [~user@host86-133-193-63.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:01 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-193-63.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:51 dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-61-245.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:16 linse [~marioooh@216.252.92.228] has joined #lisp