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[~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:20 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 02:51:32 ericeatsbrains [~ericeatsb@173-164-222-105-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:10 -!- RJ3000_ [~uid1@109.231.228.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:55:00 foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.148] has joined #lisp 02:55:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:58:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:59:59 *peterhil* likes Xach's plans 03:00:09 -!- jakk_ is now known as jakk 03:01:53 *mdh* anticipates a fistful of fasl 03:02:02 cibs [~cibs@219-87-142-18.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 03:02:05 Hi! I'm planning on representing Common Lisp to my Php-using colleagues using first three chapters of Practical Common Lisp and some other stuff for the introduction. Might there be some already made CC-licensed presentation for a good introduction of Lisp? 03:02:33 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:45 -!- jakk [jakk@ddosking.org] has quit [Quit: h] 03:03:34 -!- benny [~user@i577A8C1D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:05:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:07:40 -!- Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:08:27 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 03:09:00 doomlord [~ceti331@host81-157-102-115.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:03 peterhil: unfortunately, some of the good stuff I have is in polish :/ 03:11:51 -!- ANDRES1 is now known as ANDRES|MURIO 03:12:08 -!- ANDRES|MURIO is now known as ANDRES1 03:12:34 -!- Demosthenes 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[~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:44:18 Buddy 04:45:39 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Client Quit] 04:45:57 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 04:47:25 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Client Quit] 04:48:08 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 04:49:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:49:59 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-205-128.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:54:48 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 04:57:34 msmith0957 [~Mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:42 i have an AI assignment that requires writing a lisp application. anyone have a good reference for me to get started? have no lisp background :/ but proficient in c family/java 04:59:01 minion: tell msmith0957 about pcl 04:59:03 msmith0957: please see pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 04:59:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:01 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@bas5-montreal28-1178025755.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 05:00:19 minion: thanks, that looks good 05:00:20 you're welcome 05:02:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:09:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:12:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:13:49 jcazevedo_ [~jcazevedo@bl6-63-146.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 05:15:08 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-62-78.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:16:58 -!- jcazevedo_ is now known as jcazevedo 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[~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:28:10 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:32 punee_ [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:28:53 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:29:02 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.209.36] has joined #lisp 08:29:32 Greetings! 08:29:59 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:30:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:32:09 chturne [~chturne@78-105-198-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:32:36 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:33:03 -!- punee_ [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:33:34 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-dfyxvntdsidrtcsl] has joined #lisp 08:33:56 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:41 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-69-13.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:58 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:36:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:36:27 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:37:44 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 08:38:55 why do one need cl-irc if there are plenty irc clients GUI and console ones ? 08:39:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:39:16 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@70-36-138-173.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:39:26 is that a question? 08:40:01 spacefrogg: you are from space ? 08:40:29 "is that a question?" yes you said a question 08:41:15 fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-69-13.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:41:41 elkng: there is a difference between "client" and "client library" 08:41:44 if I use emacs lisp and trying to execute this code: (let ((count 0)) (message "buffer contains %d words." count)) ? it generates an error http://sprunge.us/APfY, any ideas ? 08:41:58 elkng: #emacs is ====> that way 08:42:38 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:45:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:46:11 NikolaiDante [~nikolaida@unaffiliated/knighterrant] has joined #lisp 08:46:17 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-69-13.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:48:35 agumonkey [~agu@206.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:16 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.33] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 08:49:36 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seconds] 09:05:35 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:08:16 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:10:25 -!- keep [~ming@113.96.149.249] has left #lisp 09:11:33 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 09:11:36 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:15:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:15:49 add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-60-26.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:16:24 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:16:36 anybody know of a prolog parser for cl? 09:18:13 -!- Ologn [~ologn@cpe-69-206-225-143.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 09:18:17 alama: did you try google? 09:18:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:22:13 the results i've found seem to mostly concern implementing prolog-like functionality in cl; i've yet to find an off-the-shelf parser for prolog (i don't actually want to do prolog-like programming; i just want the parse trees of the prolog texts) 09:23:19 alama: i'm pretty sure Krystof has done something like that in the paiprolog/mcclim context. my memory might be failing, though. 09:23:55 I believe I found a bug in CFFI; I submitted a bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/1065432 09:24:09 Krystof: does that sound familiar? ;-> 09:24:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:26:58 alama: What you want is called an operator precedence parser 09:27:20 Prolog grammar isn't specced as a CFG, but with operator precedence 09:27:49 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:28:06 arnsholt: it turns out that my problem is easier than i've let on: i'm not interested in parsing arbitrary prolog, but just a fixed fragment of it that doesn't permit the usual fancy prolog stuff 09:28:19 Prolog is an ISO standard, so it's silly expensive (but a local uni library might have it) 09:28:30 it's for theorem proving problems: http://www.cs.miami.edu/~tptp/TPTP/QuickGuide/ (tptp) 09:28:31 Ah, right. Then you can probably get away with a CFG 09:28:41 yeah 09:28:42 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@70-36-138-204.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:29:07 looking at cl-yacc 09:29:37 So you'll want rules for atoms and complex terms, plus all the operators used in the problem sets 09:29:53 right 09:30:12 perhaps i can just roll my own parser quickly using readtables 09:30:15 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 09:30:18 Oh, there's even a TPTP syntax BNF file on that page 09:30:20 so, in (declaim (ftype (function * simple-base-string) foo)), is * illegal as an arg typespec? ecl complains, sbcl doesn't. trying to address http://cl-test-grid.appspot.com/blob?key=416833 09:30:26 yeah 09:33:45 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:33:53 attila_lendvai: I think that's an sbcl bug because the arg-typespec should be a list 09:34:30 fe[nl]ix: thanks! (I'm also leaning towards that opinion) 09:34:40 see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_fn.htm 09:35:47 -!- chturne [~chturne@78-105-198-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:36:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:37:40 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 09:38:48 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Client Quit] 09:39:55 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 09:42:17 is (declaim (ftype (function (&rest t) simple-base-string) foo)) a good replacement? (where I don't want to define the argument types, just the return type) 09:42:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:43:53 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Client Quit] 09:45:12 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 09:45:13 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Client Quit] 09:45:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:46:33 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-33.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:13 could a clnet admin please run this: sudo chmod g+w /project/local-time/public_html/darcs/local-time 09:51:45 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:51:46 attila_lendvai: it's already writable by group, as far as i can see 09:52:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:52:14 jdz: argh, sorry: sudo chmod -R g+w /project/local-time/public_html/darcs/local-time 09:52:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:52:40 _darcs/index is not writable 09:52:43 benny [~user@i577A86CF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:46 hi 09:52:48 wow, darcs 09:52:58 how can I parse a float number in a string? Tx 09:54:02 attila_lendvai: done 09:54:46 jdz: thanks a whole lot, pushed a fix for ecl 09:55:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:56:24 Posterdati: there are packages to do it, such as https://github.com/soemraws/parse-float 09:57:05 galdor: tx 09:58:28 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:01:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:01:32 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:03:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:04:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:04:47 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 10:08:31 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:04 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@46.233.246.21] has 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[efftee@195.160.168.8] has joined #lisp 11:26:52 macrobat: huh? 11:26:57 hi :) 11:27:21 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:27:56 -!- lvyiwang [78cacfcb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.120.202.207.203] has left #lisp 11:28:27 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:29:25 -!- ft [efftee@195.160.168.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:29:37 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:33:10 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-4575fc51.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:33:19 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Quit] 11:33:43 -!- otwierac1 is now known as otwieracz 11:36:00 -!- RJ3000_ [~uid1@109.231.228.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:37:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:40:23 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pirateking-_-] 12:20:46 naryl: o/ I lurk here. Sometimes I even ask a stupid question. 12:25:17 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:27:59 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:29:26 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has joined #lisp 12:30:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.52.141] has joined #lisp 12:30:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.52.141] has quit [Changing host] 12:30:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:31:29 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.25.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:33:14 ft [efftee@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 12:33:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:35:14 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@213.101.209.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:38:11 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8] 12:38:22 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 12:38:59 assuming i want to READ a file with hex colors, #f00f00, how do i disable #\# again? 12:39:32 ferada: set-macro-character is one way. but if the data is not lisp data or lisp-like data, it might be better to use read-line or read-char or similar instead. 12:39:54 well i copy-readtable, so destructive is okay 12:40:02 ah nvm 12:40:19 can't i just say: "treat this as normal part of a symbol name"? 12:42:00 i.e. is (SET-SYNTAX-FROM-CHAR #\# #\%) evil, assuming i use WITH-STANDARD-IO-SYNTAX? 12:43:03 i'll go with that i think, thx 12:43:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:45:47 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-224-18.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:47:52 -!- yan_ [~yan@64.22.109.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:46 yan_ [~yan@64.22.109.95] has joined #lisp 12:49:41 chturne [~chturne@nas56-64.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:49:41 ferada: why do you want those as symbols rather than as colors? 12:50:24 i'll do the lookup later, first just READ in the whole file, than dispatch on first character, either named colors or hex 12:50:39 i.e. it'll result in a bunch of rgb structs later on 12:51:34 If you are going this route, perhaps better to make #/# a read macro that creates the color struct? 12:52:50 than i'd have to read up on read macros and thats more hassle than this 12:53:11 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:56:52 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:58:15 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-224-18.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:00:42 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:00:43 -!- samebcha1e is now known as samebchase 13:00:44 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:01:50 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 13:02:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:04:35 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-015-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:58 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:00 jewboy [~jewboy@71-86-155-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:06:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:07:27 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 13:07:59 ggoo_26 [~ggoo_26@41.233.121.13] has joined #lisp 13:08:22 -!- ggoo_26 [~ggoo_26@41.233.121.13] has left #lisp 13:12:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:14:47 p8m [~p8m@67.210.179.76] has joined #lisp 13:15:05 RJ3000_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:15:25 -!- alama [~textual@stgt-5f702f28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:15:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:16:37 kanru` [~kanru@kanru.info] has joined #lisp 13:16:47 -!- Daisy [Eile@95.209.29.121.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:22 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 13:18:43 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:48 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:23:15 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:23:51 sbenitezb [~sbenitezb@186.136.23.25] has joined #lisp 13:24:01 X-02 [~kohei@pon036-189.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:24:18 Daisy [~Daisy@95.209.79.234.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 13:25:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:30:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-101.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:30:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:11 fantazo_ [~fantazo@91-119-123-199.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 13:34:09 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:34:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:35:24 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@91-119-69-13.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:35:25 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:21 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 13:37:07 attila_lendvai: hello there! 13:37:44 attila_lendvai: some recent changes in asdf have broken hu.dwim.asdf. in particular, asdf::getenv is no longer external (it's external in the asdf-utils project). 13:38:00 attila_lendvai: what should i do to request a change to hu.dwim.asdf? 13:38:40 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:11 pw_ [~user@91-66-5-222-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:05 hi 13:40:25 zeissoctopus [~zeissocto@183178133120.ctinets.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:40:37 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.145] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 hi 13:43:16 please how can I generate a condition in a handler-case error-clause? 13:43:16 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 13:43:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:44:02 cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has joined #lisp 13:44:02 do you mean (handler-case (form) (error (c) (error 'my-new-condition)))? 13:44:57 eheh 13:45:12 Krystof: yes 13:45:17 Krystof: using error then? 13:45:22 shouldn't that be 'my-c-condition ? 13:45:34 erre,cerror..... 13:45:45 error* 13:45:54 -!- chturne [~chturne@nas56-64.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:46:12 if you want it continuable use cerror..... ? 13:46:24 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-mlyfwpvlydkeumto] has joined #lisp 13:46:24 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-mlyfwpvlydkeumto] has quit [Changing host] 13:46:25 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:46:28 if you want non-permissive use error ? 13:46:55 Anyone have experience with a maliciously corrupted lisp compiler ? 13:47:07 Posterdati: or using any other kind of operator that ends up creating and signalling an error 13:47:08 no 13:47:10 there are several of them 13:47:13 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 13:47:26 treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has joined #lisp 13:47:29 Krystof: I don't want the debugger be involved 13:47:34 jewboy: afaik you restart lisp, and before doing that ensure security ...... 13:48:04 Posterdati: then read up in the conditions chapter of your favourite reference about the relationship between condition-making operations and invoke-debugger 13:48:23 and the convention relating to the class hierarchy and serious-condition 13:48:51 So lisp is designed to not have to deal with memory allocation and such ? 13:48:53 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:27 jewboy: what is it that you really want to know? 13:49:31 normally not, you don't need it, but you can if you want..... 13:50:21 H4ns jut the role of lisp, and priorly I was wondering if anyone does DDC on lisp compilers. 13:50:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:53 jewboy: "role of lisp" in what respect? and what is "DDC"? 13:52:54 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:53:50 THe role it plays in bieng useful as opposed to say C, and DDC is diverse double compiling, to be sure source code corresponds to the object code (binary) . 13:54:11 H4ns ^ 13:55:33 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:56:19 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:57:38 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 13:58:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:23 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.145] has joined #lisp 13:59:49 jewboy: Lisp is essentially a high level language (while C is arguable "middle" level) 14:01:18 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:15 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:02:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:03:01 -!- Swampert` is now known as Swampert 14:08:09 btw, out of topic, but still, do you know of a dynamic code generation BSD licenced lib for C? It's a given in lisp, mostly, but I would need that in C 14:08:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:09:04 dim: LLVM? 14:09:35 yeah, apparently 14:10:21 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:52 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:05 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 14:13:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:18:48 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 14:18:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:21:01 p_nathan [~Adium@75.87.250.229] has joined #lisp 14:22:04 sbenitez` [~sbenitezb@186.136.23.25] has joined #lisp 14:22:40 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.246.21] has joined #lisp 14:22:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:23:03 -!- treyka [~treyka@77.109.79.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:58 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:09 -!- sbenitezb [~sbenitezb@186.136.23.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:26:55 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@50-194-56-154-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:27:29 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:31:06 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.145] has joined #lisp 14:31:25 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 14:32:04 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:33:16 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@76.78.168.158] has joined #lisp 14:34:15 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:57 mrpat [~jackie@pool-108-52-83-154.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:25 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-152-101.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:19 -!- balle [~basti@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:42 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:39:51 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:40:03 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:57 others valid alternatives to eli / ilisp around here? 14:41:10 pnpuff: most of us use slime 14:42:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:42:20 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-74-64-60-84.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:43:43 sure, only to vary a bit. 14:43:57 ? 14:44:13 jjkola [~jjkola@212-226-56-35-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 14:45:27 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:45:41 balle [~basti@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 14:46:55 pnpuff: it is possible to survive on inferior-lisp-mode 14:47:04 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 14:47:13 i was searching alternatives to inferior lisp mode 14:47:15 yep 14:47:37 pnpuff: there is slimv, and some java thingies. 14:48:14 i don't think there is anything else in emacs than slime & co. 14:48:26 pnpuff: what is your motivation? 14:49:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:50:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:51:10 multiprocessing support? 14:51:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:52:27 pnpuff: what precisely do you mean by that? slime supports both multiple lisp processes and multiple threads. 14:53:34 inferior lisp mode, not slime 14:53:51 pnpuff: ok, so why not slime? 14:54:01 jewel [~jewel@196-215-65-136.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:54:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A242A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:18 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.76] has joined #lisp 14:58:36 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:39 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:01:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:03:07 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 15:03:57 pnpuff: There are IDEs, like Clozure's. 15:04:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:25 -!- sbenitez` [~sbenitezb@186.136.23.25] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.52.141] has joined #lisp 15:05:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.99.52.141] has quit [Changing host] 15:05:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:06:04 sbenitezb [~sbenitezb@186.136.23.25] has joined #lisp 15:06:43 heidymadia [~heidyma@202.152.194.155] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 Hi, is there any faster way to implement concurrent dolist than calling make-thread for each? 15:07:03 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:24 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:08:19 I'm thinking of something lithter like erlang's processes. 15:08:42 X-02: Could be many ways, depending on how many elements you have: only use one thread, use a pool of worker threads... 15:09:11 X-02: have a look at lparallel. it may have something for you. 15:09:17 Map each form of the clause onto a different thread... 15:09:21 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:09:57 -!- heidymadia [~heidyma@202.152.194.155] has left #lisp 15:10:22 moore33: if you can limit the number of threads not depending on the number of elements, it'd be the best. 15:10:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:10:44 X-02: lparallel does that for you. 15:11:02 H4ns: thank you, I'll see it. 15:14:21 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 15:14:48 H4ns: lparallel seems very suitable. 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17:15:26 HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6f4c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:04 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:14 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 17:17:54 who ate with-frame-slots in clim ? 17:18:07 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-143-240.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:18:19 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 17:18:39 scigraph uses clim:with-frame-slots but i can't find that symbol in any file in mcclim-20120909-cvs 17:19:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:03 -!- RJ3000_ [~uid1@46-65-28-90.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:22:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:37 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:24:12 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:26:18 wbooze: Mcclim doesn't define clim-0.9, for obvious reasons. 17:26:54 oooh, so it got upgraded but parts of it not ? 17:26:59 hmmmmm 17:27:22 hi 17:27:26 according to the *features* i have clim-2 17:27:33 so....... 17:28:23 hi Posterdati 17:28:28 please, I need help on this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132513 17:28:35 Yes, clim-0.9 is an older version with some incompatibilities. 17:29:07 I'm not sure I understand "upgraded." McClim implements the clim 2 "spec," more or less. 17:29:29 -!- thedeadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:30:29 yes, and scigraph lags behind it seems...someone didn't do the upgrading to the scigraph parts or something is failing here..... 17:30:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:54 scigraph did work in McClim at one time. 17:31:03 9 years ago :) 17:31:21 Well, probably more recently than that. 17:31:24 hmmmm 17:31:48 Posterdati: looks like a bug in parse-float to me. 17:31:59 i already corrected 2 bugs there, but the last one with the missing symbols is over my head..... 17:32:38 one was with an clim symbol import into dwim somehow, and the other the install-command for a command-table-command which was failing too..... 17:33:36 the macro was made polymorph with respect to clim versions, but the using part not 17:33:44 heh 17:34:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:36:42 Getting things like scigraph running is an exercise in code archeology. 17:36:58 so the call would work with the earlier versions maybe or specs i mean like 0.9 like you said, but here on clim-2 the call order was wrong somehow.... 17:37:11 yep 17:37:15 that's true 17:37:20 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:44 hello 17:39:50 ah 17:39:59 i'm still connected ok, sorry 17:40:39 what is 'vector Posterdati ? 17:40:58 the parsing seems to have succeeded, but the outer call fails or so 17:41:04 if that's what you mean 17:41:56 wrap another lambda(x) (* 3 x) there maybe ? 17:42:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:43:30 (map (lambda (x) (* 3 x) (lambda (x) (parse-float ...... ? 17:44:03 uh, one paren missing there.... 17:44:32 (map (lambda (x) (* 3 x)) (lambda (x) (parse-float .....? 17:44:49 wbooze: please stop babbling. 17:44:58 the inner result will be the input for the outer call ? 17:45:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:45:54 ok ok 17:47:11 Harag [~phil@dsl-243-195-71.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:47:56 wbooze: first value loose the sign 17:48:14 oh 17:48:56 didn't recognize that, i already closed the browser, ok now i see what you meant 17:50:02 Posterdati: it looks like the algorithm is just bad. 17:51:45 -!- elixey [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:52:09 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@94.27.88.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:52:30 hey cliki got a new layout or is it me only ? 17:54:50 wbooze: it got rewritten 17:55:25 Xach: which one? 17:55:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:55:42 cool 17:55:48 Posterdati: parse-float's 17:55:56 Xach: :( 17:56:10 Posterdati: it uses parse-integer to read the integer part, and "-0" is returned as 0 17:56:20 Xach: any other good csv library? 17:56:21 Posterdati: I recommend opening an issue on github 17:56:35 Posterdati: Maybe. Would that help? 17:56:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:56:51 Xach: yes 17:57:43 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:57 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@212-226-56-35-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:33 Xach: how can I post this problem on github? 18:00:14 Posterdati: https://github.com/soemraws/parse-float/issues and click "new issue" and explain the problem, with a simplified example of what you tried, what you expected to get, and what you got instead. 18:00:40 I think (parse-float:parse-float "-0.1") would suffice as an example. 18:02:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:04:33 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gatekeeper.brainalliance.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:43 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:05:33 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:07:05 thedeadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:33 wolgo [~jarrod@70-35-57-218.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:09 hi, I am using a library that takes a :basic-authorization keyword param and a list of (username password) 18:11:14 I am a lisp noob 18:11:41 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-245-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:03 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:12:04 hi wolgo 18:13:03 hi wolgo 18:13:25 I am currently doing the following to interpret the strings passed in as arguments: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132514 18:13:31 am I doing it wrong? 18:13:51 pw_ [~user@91-66-5-222-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:54 The function does what I want it to do. 18:14:03 wolgo: it would be more typical to write (list user pass) 18:14:08 I just dont want to abuse backtick or comma. I want to be good at lisp 18:14:16 okay thanks Xach 18:14:23 I figured there was a better way 18:14:28 makes sense to do that 18:14:52 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:15:02 wolgo: there's a fine balance: if you end up with more symbolic constants in your lists, backtick is fine though (: 18:15:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:15:49 if you'd end up quoting more than a single or two symbols, backquote would start being more appropriate 18:19:04 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-143-240.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:20:36 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:21:24 Xach: problem arises when one write -0.xxx, if one writes -x.y with x != 0 it works 18:21:33 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:21:33 -!- catmtking_ is now known as catmtking 18:25:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:25:29 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:26:11 sabalaba [~Adium@70-36-138-8.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:57 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:24 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-mobilenet-169-235-143-240.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:30:23 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:31:50 bitonic` [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:51 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:41:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:41:42 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:44:00 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:44:55 Is it possible to get a symbol into a package with two names? There's no (SETF SYMBOL-NAME) function, and IMPORT takes the same name. 18:45:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:45:06 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:45:31 one symbol has one name 18:46:04 yes, but if a package is a hash-table (or an ALIST, or whatever else) it might be possible to have aliases 18:46:22 irpanech6 [~user@96.54.160.143] has joined #lisp 18:47:09 packages and symbols are not defined like that. 18:47:45 *Xach* experienced super confusion 18:47:47 and besides, what would be the name of a symbol as returned by SYMBOL-NAME if it had multiple names? 18:48:13 H4ns: same as symbol-package ;) 18:48:49 Bike [~Glossina@65-100-32-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:57 i knew i was tapping on thin ice again when i first responded :) 18:49:07 -!- ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:49:15 ltbarcly [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:18 well, a symbol having one name is ok ... I'm just thinking about it having a few aliases. 18:50:13 .. because then ....? 18:50:27 It's not portable, but I could eg. extend SB-IMPL::INTERNAL-SYMBOLS of the package... so I gather there's no way that works everywhere. 18:51:18 ...because eg. with parenscript I need to use inner-h-t-m-l. Now, if I could create the symbol with a name of |innerHTML| (easy) and then provide a |INNERHTML| alias, typing it would be easier and more readable ... 18:51:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:00 *Xach* waves to gendl 18:54:54 gensym: asdf-utilities is actually another name for the asdf package. the separate utilities librarie defines a package named asdf-utils 18:54:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:54:57 err, gendl 18:55:43 flip214: I don't think that's possible anywhere 18:55:58 you could destructively modify the string returned symbol-name 18:56:14 but I guess the result of that would be more hilarious and sad than helpful ): 18:56:17 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 18:57:03 antifuchs: and that would likely only cause a) that the lookup and name are inconsistent or b) that the lookup key doesn't match it's hash anymore - in both cases I won't have two names for lookup. 18:57:28 yeah 18:57:41 in summary, there are no symbol aliases (: 18:57:46 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@70-36-138-8.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:58:01 a symbol is identified by its name, and that never changes. so you're pretty much stuck 18:58:08 you could modify parenscript, of course 18:58:11 Forty-3 [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 -!- ramkrsna_ [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vtaqefraesjrqcan] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:52 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:04:06 catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:04:08 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.57.249.176] has joined #lisp 19:04:32 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-152-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:41 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-152-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:10:22 Xach: I switched to csv-parser 19:10:24 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:33 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 Xach: and it actually works 19:11:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:13:32 Posterdati: Did you create a github issue for parse-float? 19:15:01 Xach: is not parse-float, but cl-csv 19:15:02 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:15:12 Posterdati: incorrect 19:15:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:15:39 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:52 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 parse-float has a bug, and it is good to report it so it can be fixed. 19:16:50 and why exchanging cl-csv with csv-parser works? 19:17:28 I suspect csv-parser returns more than a string 19:19:17 Posterdati: what is the bug with cl-csv... I would certainly like to fix it... 19:19:56 There is no bug with cl-csv. 19:20:10 Or at least none illustrated by Posterdati's recent example. 19:20:19 Xach: ahh sorry, came in late, thanks for clarifying 19:20:26 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 19:22:13 -!- pspace [~andrew@76.14.65.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:22:46 -!- thedeadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:23:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:56 thedeadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:47 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:25:01 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:25:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-65-136.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:26:00 are there cases where clisp can run a program through the interpreter, but it wont compile. 19:26:24 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26:53 (i appear to have that and am wondering if thats right or not..) 19:26:56 killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has joined #lisp 19:27:16 paste? 19:27:29 in particular i have a macro using functions defined earlier in the file 19:27:39 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Quit: Quit] 19:27:42 You probably need some eval-when. 19:27:48 it interprets fine, but says the functions are undefined on compiling 19:27:49 doomlord: oh yeah, that'll happen. eval-when or just split into multiple files. 19:28:06 ok 19:28:24 The way compile-file's semantics work, it doesn't have to define functions as it goes, essentially, so they're not yet available by the time you macroexpand. wrap the function definitions in (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ...) 19:29:14 uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.62] has joined #lisp 19:29:26 from c i'm used to ordering things by dependancy to reduce the amount of prototyping i do. 19:29:54 so basically they need to be marked to be available at maccro time? 19:30:10 Essentially you need to make sure the functions are defined for the compiler, yeah. 19:30:48 It's like if you could have a C preprocessor macro that called a function at preprocessor time. Normally the function wouldn't be ready yet. 19:31:24 -!- jewboy [~jewboy@71-86-155-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [] 19:31:41 ok that makes sense . 19:31:43 jewboy [~jewboy@71-86-155-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:32:32 chturne [~chturne@78-105-198-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:32:51 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 19:33:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:33:40 ah it might be easier to fix - its trying to do side effects in macroexpansion - i dont need that. i can re-order it 19:34:21 yeah, you only need to do it if the functions are actually called at macroexpansion time. if you just want to expand into a form that uses those functions, that doesn't take anything special. 19:34:54 wheraas it might be able to inline non-effectful ones fine, i presum 19:35:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:36:49 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 19:39:42 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-201-95.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 side-effects in macros are a bad idea. 19:40:05 -!- dkasak [dkasak@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 19:40:16 yes. i really didn' t need it.. 19:40:17 Macros can be expanded multiple times (interpreter), or evaluated in a different process than the current application (compile-file/load) 19:40:25 dkasak [dkasak@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #lisp 19:41:17 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 19:41:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:31 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:34 Xach: you were right, problem is in parse-float 19:41:42 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:42:51 Xach: problem is that cl-csv:read-csv returns a list of strings hence the problem, csv-parse return lists of strings and numbers 19:43:52 works fine now 19:43:53 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:43:53 I'm going to report it 19:44:39 Posterdati: i have reported it on github already. 19:44:53 -!- dkasak [dkasak@s0.barwen.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:58 oh tx, did you provide my example? 19:45:10 I provided a simpler example. 19:45:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:46:03 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 19:46:26 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:47:51 ok 19:48:01 I'm not registered on github 19:48:07 and it asked me for a login 19:48:10 account 19:49:28 Does anyone have experience working with clisp on big problems? I am testing a library and the test suite keeps blowing up with stack exhaustion on clisp.... Wondering if there's a good recipe for fixing that.... 19:49:49 Posterdati: it is a good investment of 3 seconds 19:49:50 this is an algorithm that does search... works fine on ACL, SBCL and CCL... 19:50:07 Xach: yes :) 19:50:58 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:00 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:51:40 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:51:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:18 msmith0957 [~mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:26 rpg: do you expect tail-call elimination? if so, did you compile the program? 19:54:29 pkhuong: I do expect tail call elimination, and the program is compiled (using ASDF). I try to dial up the optimization settings to make this happen (without tce, doesn't work well on SBCL or ACL). 19:55:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:55:30 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 19:55:49 -!- uselpa [~uselpa@83.99.17.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:14 Sorry, I am flying a bit blind here: just trying to do my best to help users who want to run with clisp... For some reason, it seems like novices gravitate to clisp.... 19:57:02 the repl is nicer 19:57:26 rpg: might it be simpler to provide a pre-built SBCL or CCL image? 19:58:22 pkhuong: This is an HTN planning system I support, so people will want to have the code. Distributed through sourceforge, whose redesign has foiled my attempts to inform the users... 19:59:01 http://sourceforge.net/projects/shop/ 19:59:03 is the single quote, ', and the accent, `, both treated as quote in clisp ? 19:59:17 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:59:19 msmith0957: no 19:59:39 msmith0957: the latter is called backquote and it introduces a kind of template system 20:00:17 in simple usage, it appears to do the same thing. i tried ' and ` followed by (+ 2 3), and both times returnes (+ 2 3) 20:00:23 i'm not familiar with template system 20:01:03 but, i'll stick with single quote. i just couldn't tell which quote it actualy was in the pdf i was reading 20:01:12 Yeah, well, that's why playing around with simple examples is no substitute for true understanding from references. 20:01:25 msmith0957: ` will be about the same as ' if you don't use commas, but: `(null ,*print-circle*) for instance 20:01:27 msmith0957: that's a serious problem 20:01:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:59 msmith0957: i've used editors that mangle lisp quotes into "smart" quotes, which also breaks the code. 20:02:36 booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:41 ok 20:04:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:04:56 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:06:25 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:08:13 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 20:08:55 *rpg* wonders why :type "lisp" isn't in *default-pathname-defaults* on clisp... 20:09:38 rpg: Is it anywhere? 20:09:55 Xach: I'm used to (load "foo") loading "foo.lisp".... 20:10:15 rpg: And (probe-file "/etc/passwd") returning NIL? 20:10:45 Xach: maybe I'm used to LOAD just having more sensible default behavior... 20:10:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:11:26 I'm also finding that (load ) fails where (load (translate-logical-pathname )) suceeds.... 20:11:50 are the free lisps far behind the commercial ones for performance 20:12:18 doomlord: no. 20:12:21 doomlord: No. SBCL is often at the head of the performance shoot-outs. 20:12:43 ACL has some niceties that I appreciate, but SBCL rocks for performance. 20:13:34 just trying to generate some cases to show me what sort of code it can output .. are there optimization compiler flags you need to pass for it to generate the best code 20:13:51 clhs optimize 20:13:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_optimi.htm 20:14:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:14:15 and look at sbcl's specific docs, of course. 20:14:16 doomlord: adding (declare speed) will often produce notes regarding how well it can optimize various bits and pieces of your code. 20:14:25 err, (declare (optimize speed)) 20:14:38 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.204.174] has joined #lisp 20:14:39 i suppose it might be hard for me to see at the asm level since it might not do inlining until it knows more about the context (e.g. if i write a simple function where i should know what it would look like in asm) 20:14:40 Then it can help to honestly declare types, to use modular arithmetic, etc. 20:15:04 What helps SBCL produce very good code output might not help any other implementation. 20:15:45 i've seen quite a variance in c/c++ compilers.. there must be even more compiler specific foibles here 20:16:02 daniel1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 20:16:26 -!- daniel1 is now known as ANDRES1 20:17:05 I like SBCL's style quite a bit. 20:17:05 sabalaba [~Adium@50-0-172-5.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:23:35 chrisdone [~cin@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 20:23:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.243] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:23:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:24:10 is there a quick way to make FORMAT's output show improper lists as mere cons pairs? e.g. (a . (b . (c . d))) AS (a . (b . (c . d))) and not (a b c . d) 20:24:12 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 20:24:17 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.243] has joined #lisp 20:24:18 (for ~S) 20:24:21 no 20:24:25 okies 20:24:36 -!- PuercoPop is now known as Guest62925 20:24:55 -!- Guest62925 is now known as PuercoPop` 20:25:38 -!- PuercoPop` is now known as PuercoPop 20:26:41 -!- PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:57 PuercoPop [~user@190.41.173.174] has joined #lisp 20:28:26 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:28:35 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 20:29:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:30:18 RJ3000_ [~uid1@109.231.228.146] has joined #lisp 20:31:56 -!- eldarik [~CLD@pppoe-217-100-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:33:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:33:38 so, i have a lisp file i'm working on, and i loaded using (load ...). is the proper 'work flow' to make changes in my local file, reload the file, and then test my functions as needed ? 20:34:02 not sure what happens when you load functions that have already been defined 20:34:09 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:34:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:34:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:34:41 it appears to work ok, just wanted to check with you guys =p 20:35:02 most of us load the file into a lisp image attached to emacs. 20:35:15 then we incrementally compile forms as they are written. 20:35:36 -!- chrisdone [~cin@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:36 using an emacs mode called slime. 20:35:37 first, using (load "foo.lisp") is a bad habit to get into since some implementations won't compile the code when you do that. you'd want (load (compile-file "foo.lisp")) 20:35:53 ( defun main () (declare (optimize speed)) (let ((x 1.0)(y 1.0)) (dotimes (n 100) (setf x (+ x 0.001))(setf y (* x y)))(print y 20:35:53 ))) 20:36:12 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:18 thanks, i'll look into those 20:37:14 here's my contrived example - i would hope a compiler would be able to do the inner loop entirely in registers- but the disassembly i'm seeing at the minute says it has a call to "GENERIC-*" which i'm guessing does dynamictype checks 20:37:17 -!- cic_ [~connolly@Catnip.AI.SRI.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:27 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 20:38:26 doomlord: declare the type of x and y. 20:38:46 ok . here's me hoping for too much in terms of inference 20:39:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:40:22 doomlord: SBCL's propagation scheme doesn't work well with assignment. 20:40:42 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:56 some sort of functional tail-recursive iteration would compile better ? i know in the world of c/c++ this sort of thing can work ...but i realise this must be much harder to compile.. 20:42:09 -!- lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:42:39 is there something similar to emacs slime for the sublime editor ? 20:43:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:43:56 -!- HG` [~HG@wprt-4db6f4c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:44:45 doomlord: no, it wouldn't. It's a fundamental speed/precision trade off in the propagation algorithm. 20:45:12 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-207-10-143-198.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:45:44 is it going to try and use float equivalent of 'bignums' ... 20:46:02 no. 20:46:23 -!- agumonkey [~agu@206.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:46:44 (i'm trying to google for what lisp calls 32bit float and 32bit ints ; .. i dont want any safety here, just want to see if it can generate register-based code) 20:47:25 ah "single-float" and "fixnum" ok 20:47:31 32 bit floats are single-float on SBCL. 32 bit ints are (signed-byte 32). 20:47:51 On sbcl, isn't "~/" in pathnames supposed to work? 20:48:09 Are 32 bit ints effficient on SBCL? or should we be using something more like 28? 20:49:07 you only need to declare the type of x and y, for SBCL. I get a good looking loop, without any obvious issue. 20:49:20 rpg: depends on the platform and what you do with them. 20:49:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:49:25 (ok in progress) 20:50:19 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-171.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:34 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 20:51:42 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-63-146.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:51:49 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-171.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:52:26 awesome, that worked 20:52:37 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:32 xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has joined #lisp 20:54:55 pkhuong: I was thinking about 32-bit SBCL.... 20:55:26 can you count on types propogating down the callgraph -eg: writing a typeless function being a bit like writing a template in c++ .. you might say "lerp a b f" and get both 32bit & 64bit precision versions compiled appropriately 20:55:30 In the past, did some work with IP addresses as integers, and ended up using a 64-bit SBCL to get more efficiency). 20:55:51 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:13 doomlord: only if you inline. 20:56:31 i do notice it appears to be making my loop go in units of 2 (200 -> 0 step -2) .. is that because its reserving a bit for 'boxing' (distinguishing pointers from values in the gc ? or flagging whats used ?) 20:57:37 rpg: it won't work well across full function calls, but should be ok if you only pass them in specialised vectors or structures, or in local calls (with appropriate declarations). If you take care to let modular arithmetic trigger, you should just get regular machine arithmetic. 20:58:11 pkhuong: OK, so using 64-bit SBCL to get efficient 32-bit operations was uncrazy! that's a relief! 20:58:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:58:43 -!- pw_ [~user@91-66-5-222-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:48 rpg: Actually, you get efficient 61 bit operations... go wild. 20:59:13 rpg: well, I can think of some edge cases when 32 bit SBCL will emit better code, but it'd be marginal, and is one of these issues that only matter if you have better things to worry about ;) 20:59:17 moore33: 63 even (: 20:59:48 is (declare (type ??? symbol)) the only way to decalare by default - is there a way of embedding them in the lets' and function declarations ... or do i have to build some macros for that 20:59:49 -!- bitonic` [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:00:14 pkhuong: Really? I thought that even and odd fixnums got tags out of the 4 bits available. 21:00:39 doomlord: it's tagging. Also useful to make sure we can address in all array types (including 16 byte complex double floats) without having to shift explicitly, on x86oids. We used to shift by 3, so that 8-byte words could be addressed without any shifting, implicit or not, but, overall, the wider fixnums seem like a win. 21:00:50 (defmacro defun-typed ...) (defun-typed lerp ((fp32 a)(fp32 b)(s32 f)) ...) 21:00:50 moore33: nyef made the tagging scheme even more variable width. 21:00:58 My last cmucl hacking was in x86 days. 21:01:12 pkhuong: No shit... he gets his mitts into everything :) 21:01:49 Now we have very little to envy from OCaml (: 21:02:05 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:02:33 i would be happy with something which gives compile time errors when it can't statically infer types 21:03:16 doomlord: you'll have to be more specific for CL: types can be pretty much arbitrarily precise or imprecise. 21:03:25 I wasn't actually all that envious of OCaml. 21:03:26 doomlord: that would be a violation of the CL standard, I believe. 21:03:37 doomlord: Perhaps you would be happier with Haskell? 21:03:52 i'm yoying. i love lisp macros. 21:04:02 yoyo-ing between them 21:04:16 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 21:04:47 as soon as i start thinking about data-oriented systems.. i think of all the mess with x-macros and templates in c++, and lisp-macros appear to be the right tool. 21:05:31 MLton or SML# are probably better choices if you want to make sure your polymorphism is compiled away. 21:06:03 -!- ANDRES1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:06:43 there's "template haskell" i gather which is an AST manipulator.. but i like the idea of working with the ast more directly 21:06:52 daniel1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 21:07:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:08:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:08:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 21:09:37 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 21:09:43 is SML# F# 21:10:47 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:29 -!- daniel1 is now known as ANDRES1 21:11:35 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:16:06 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:17:26 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.204.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:18:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:20:00 -!- xpoqz [~xpoqz@80.203.124.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:21:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:22:15 bitonic` [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:14 -!- ANDRES1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:02 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 21:24:11 ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:34 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:25:40 Is ASDF-2.25 especially picky about dangling symlinks to systems? 21:26:40 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:28:30 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 21:28:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:05 sams` [~sam@ool-43501bc4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:19 *Xach* hadn't heard about that 21:30:29 -!- ferada [~ferada@dslb-088-069-032-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:30:29 This is speculative. 21:30:53 And lomost probably localized to ABCL. Just askingaround. 21:30:59 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: eternal darkness] 21:31:09 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:33:08 -!- ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:34:38 ski [~ski@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:34:55 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:34 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-245-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:37:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:38:46 stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-001-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:56 Is there a good templete for a LGPL-style license for lisp code around? 21:39:20 llgpl? 21:39:33 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:40:19 ABCL is kinda of a modified LGPL. 21:40:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:41:02 Yeah, I think the llgpl might be interesting. 21:41:35 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-183-243-129.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:40 More correctly: ABCL is a GPL v2 with an exception to code that may be dynamically loaded. 21:41:47 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c395e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:03 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-3-60-26.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:46:39 -!- SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:47:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:45 -!- stat_vi [~stat@dslb-094-218-001-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:50:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:51:58 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-68-174-154-238.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:55:52 copec_ [~copec@166-70-136-61.ip.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 21:56:23 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:24 daniel3 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 21:58:08 -!- copec [~copec@64.244.102.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:38 -!- steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 21:59:22 -!- copec_ [~copec@166-70-136-61.ip.unaen.org] has left #lisp 22:00:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:03:04 -!- daniel3 is now known as ANDRES1 22:03:10 copec [~copec@166-70-136-61.ip.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:03:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 22:04:23 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:06:15 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:08 SHUPFS [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:52 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:08:16 -!- ANDRES1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:10:39 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:40 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:13:24 daniel1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 22:15:26 -!- daniel1 is now known as ANDRES1 22:15:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.243] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:16:19 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:17:51 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:18:19 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:50 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:19:29 RomyRomy [stickycake@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ddijhebkxcwmryqx] has joined #lisp 22:19:53 -!- RomyRomy [stickycake@nat/hackerschool.com/x-ddijhebkxcwmryqx] has left #lisp 22:21:43 -!- bitonic` [~user@027cae25.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:04 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 22:23:30 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:24:05 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 22:25:13 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:26:29 -!- punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: punee] 22:27:04 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 22:27:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-75.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:28:19 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:29:09 dmbaturin [~daniil@srv-ams.nl.enfan.org] has joined #lisp 22:29:39 Does GNU CLISP optimize tail calls? 22:30:33 only to the current function 22:30:50 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-171.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:56 Ok, got it. Is it recommended practice to use tail call recursion, or I should just use loop macro? 22:32:12 it's not recommend, you should 22:32:19 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:45 if you care about readability and portability of your programs, that is 22:32:45 Thanks, got it. I wanted to learn the concept of tail call, but I don't find it so handy. 22:33:10 it's a sort of glorified goto 22:33:12 it's a nice optimization, but you should use iteration if you want iteration 22:33:27 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:29 Some say in Scheme recursion is encouraged. 22:33:50 it at least has full tail calls support 22:34:10 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:35:00 a tail call amounts to a jump anyway. if you write like scheme's named-let way you're basically writing with a label and gotos. 22:35:05 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:35:06 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-73-171.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:35:11 By the way, what do you think about newLISP? (No intention to start a holywat by any means, I'm still a newbie exploring available lisp translators). 22:35:21 Translators? 22:35:26 * holywar 22:35:39 dmbaturin: i think that it's better not to think about newLISP 22:35:58 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:02 Compilers/interpreters. I don't really understand if e.g. GNU CLISP is a compiler or interprter. :) 22:36:06 Yeah, it messes up #+nil 22:36:15 it has both, I believe 22:36:29 Bike: a quaint way to say "implementation" 22:36:37 ah. never seen it 22:36:45 although, it's a dialect, not just an implementation 22:36:45 The docs say so, but I still couldn't figure out how to produce a binary. 22:36:56 *easye* stands corrected. 22:37:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translator_(computing) 22:37:02 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:48 dmbaturin: a good way to reason about it is to think in terms of "compilers" and "evaluators" and whether the compiler uses native code or bytecode 22:37:50 -!- ebobby [~fms@70-36-138-244.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:37:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:38:04 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:38:20 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Client Quit] 22:38:26 dmbaturin: CLISP doesn't compile to native code, but can save executable images. 22:38:49 http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/image.html is what you want, I think? 22:39:22 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:39:23 dmbaturin: compilation and interpretation are independent concerns from producing executables. 22:39:44 -!- ANDRES1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:41:01 daniel1 [~ANDRES1@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 22:41:10 -!- daniel1 is now known as ANDRES1 22:41:12 Yeah, I default to "compilation into reusable lower-level code, which works perfectly when talking about C or such. 22:41:25 Seems images is what I was looking for. 22:42:03 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Client Quit] 22:42:14 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@50-0-172-5.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:43:20 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:43:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:43:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:45:01 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-108-40-79-35.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:04 *dmbaturin* noticed he started to use clisp when he needs a calculator, instead of python :) 22:45:07 -!- msmith0957 [~mike@c-76-124-107-175.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:21 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:47:01 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:47:30 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:48:17 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 22:49:48 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:49:57 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:07 -!- kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:30 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Client Quit] 22:53:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:54:57 -!- jewboy [~jewboy@71-86-155-86.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:02 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 22:56:16 topobot [~topobot@31.4.243.240] has joined #lisp 22:56:26 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 22:56:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:56:56 Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has joined #lisp 22:58:04 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:59 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@217.17.38.43] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:02:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:03:57 *cryptic* messed up his lisp quiz :( 23:04:54 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:59 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:04:59 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:06:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:06:33 Blinda [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:06:53 -!- irpanech6 [~user@96.54.160.143] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:18 cryptic: Lisp quiz? 23:07:23 -!- Posterdati [~quassel@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:38 cryptic: Xach's lisp quiz? 23:07:47 The stuff published on planet.lisp.org? 23:09:21 no 23:09:25 in my AI class 23:09:51 I was dumb and wrote '('abc 'def some-variable) instead of `(abc def ,some-variable) 23:09:55 -!- Blinda is now known as Posterdati 23:10:02 I mean, that was just the output part 23:10:21 theplanet [~eilyx@gateway/tor-sasl/eilyx] has joined #lisp 23:10:23 so I can't possibly lose any credit, considering that the algorithm implementation was correct 23:10:29 and if I do, there's no justice 23:11:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:12:39 -!- theplanet is now known as elixey 23:13:48 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 23:14:39 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:15:16 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:15:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:15:53 Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:16:56 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:13 Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:18:06 -!- Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 23:18:36 Posterdati [~antani@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:19:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:19:52 -!- chturne [~chturne@78-105-198-180.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21:13 Vivitron [~Vivitron@pool-98-110-213-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:51 Posterdati_ [~quassel@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:23:05 -!- Posterdati_ [~quassel@host45-237-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:24:39 cryptic: is that quiz available publicly? 23:25:43 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:30:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:16 antoszka: nope 23:31:48 solidus_ [~sol@bzq-79-183-156-64.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:56 it was really easy, but I tripped up over stuff I would've fixed if I were typing it 23:32:03 programming by hand is so stupid 23:33:25 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:33:38 as opposed to acheiropoieta? 23:34:28 no... as opposed to typing it into a lisp environment 23:34:39 and having access to the repl 23:34:41 by hand? 23:34:47 well yeah 23:35:07 my argument is that writing code with a pen and paper in a closed setting is ridiculous 23:35:27 yeah, it wastes trees 23:36:00 -!- solidus_ [~sol@bzq-79-183-156-64.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:39:34 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-243-195-71.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:39:52 Harag [~phil@dsl-243-195-71.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:40:21 sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has joined #lisp 23:40:25 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:41:16 -!- Sorella [~quildreen@oftn/member/Sorella] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:43:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:44:32 -!- sambio [~sambio@190.57.227.109] has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:45 -!- ``Erik [~erik@66-118-151-70.static.sagonet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:47:52 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:54 -!- _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: _d3f] 23:50:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:51:05 cryptic: If you accidentally get into 60's because of a time machine firmware bug, that skill should be useful. 23:51:18 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 23:52:51 -!- ANDRES1 is now known as ANDRES|NO 23:53:36 I find writing code on paper really helps tackle hard problems. 23:53:39 -!- ANDRES|NO is now known as andres1|no|juega 23:54:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:54:23 I make notes often, but usually at the point I don't care about syntax correctness and only ideas matter. 23:57:36 -!- andres1|no|juega is now known as ANDRES2 23:58:16 -!- ANDRES2 is now known as ANDRES4 23:58:40 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp