00:00:23 p_l: cool is a web job ? 00:00:47 nope 00:01:08 someone wants to setup a lisp dev env. + some simple utilities 00:01:11 p_l: how much you charge per hour on odesk ? 00:01:14 (rewritten in lisp) 00:01:18 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:01:37 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:59 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:57 d3vnu11: the one job I actually did there was fixed price... hourly rate depends on kind of work, I put ~19USD as my default (+ odesk fee) 00:03:05 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 00:03:06 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:34 now I'd charge way more for the simple fact of getting a full-time job 00:03:58 -!- catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:09 That's not a job, that's doing homework 00:05:22 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 00:05:29 ISF [~ivan@187.64.220.85] has joined #lisp 00:05:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:05:44 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:06:08 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-98-117-94-43.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:46 Once upon a time I got fed up with programming (incredible isn't it) and sold all my computers. I couldn't stand it, and a couple of month later, I was craving for programming, so I accepted doing homework for somebody. It was a nice project. But it's not fair to do that. 00:07:29 p_l: can I ask for your odesk profile? I have hired ppl from there and i wanted to put a lisp project but I didn't know how to find the right ppl as many have lisp skill in their profile but don't know a lot of it or not enough I guess :) 00:07:57 pjb: given the description, it looks to me a bit like someone looking for material to learn from (not specific enough to look like homework assignment, but fits someone doing exploratory coding on their own) 00:08:15 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:47 Perhaps you could refresh the Lispbox? 00:08:49 :-) 00:09:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:09:28 maybe 00:09:48 assuming any other mad idea beyond my abilities doesn't sweep me off. 00:09:55 like writing a lisp implementation for .NET 00:15:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:54 -!- user123abc_ [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:03 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-172-230.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:19:56 -!- booguie [~booguie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:58 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:56 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.24.195] has joined #lisp 00:26:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:29:42 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-224-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:29:58 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:42 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 00:35:16 -!- antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:35:37 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 00:35:39 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:45:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:45:56 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@pool-71-116-78-211.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:03 jmbr [~jmbr@cpe-66-25-145-163.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:17 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@cpe-66-25-145-163.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:47:25 -!- paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:48:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:48:05 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-205-108.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 00:48:37 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:41 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:51 booguie [~booguie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:38 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:54:53 hi ! 00:55:16 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:55:51 I have a strange behavior in sbcl : i want to implement NOR as a macro 00:56:17 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:57:47 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 00:57:50 but when I do the compiler says : 00:57:53 NOR is being redefined as a macro when it was previously assumed to be a function. 00:58:34 you used nor in a function definition or something before you defined it. you can ignore the note. 00:58:35 problem is : NOR is not known to slime as a symbol and neither in clhs 00:58:58 As long as you recompile all the places that make that assumption, you're OK. Otherwise, the warning is useful. 00:59:30 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:30 Bike : can you (slime-describe-symbol 'nor) ? 01:00:16 unknown symbol, etc 01:01:14 in a brand new sbcl image, I try to call (nor nil nil) it gives me UNDEFINED-FUNCTION 01:01:35 just after that i (defmacro nor (a b) (not (or a b))) 01:01:49 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:53 -!- Forty-Two is now known as Forty-Bot 01:02:05 And then you get the warning, because you previously tried to use nor and sbcl assumed it was supposed to be a function. 01:02:14 and it gives me STYLE-WARNING ... redefined as a macro when it was previously assumed to be a function. 01:02:24 oh 01:02:53 allright =) 01:02:57 Incidentally, that definition probably isn't what you want. It'll test the arguments at macroexpansion time. 01:03:04 -!- zolk3ri_ [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [] 01:03:14 yes, that was for the example 01:03:32 -!- My_Hearing is now known as Mon_Ouie 01:03:41 (defmacro nor (&rest objects) 01:03:41 `(and ,@(mapcar (lambda (x) 01:03:41 `(null ,x)) 01:03:42 objects))) 01:03:50 uh sorry for the ugly paste 01:04:04 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:05:13 i think it should be a function with a compiler macro 01:05:22 but that's what i have right now 01:05:41 Bike: thanks 01:05:54 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:06:37 actually the sbcl warning is precise : it *assumed* it was a function. 01:06:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:06:58 yes. did I say otherwise...? 01:07:12 I'd write it as a function, too (defun nor (&rest obs) (declare (dynamic-extent obs)) (every #'null obs)) 01:07:12 not at all =) 01:07:38 Not really worth optimizing, unless you expect to call it in an inner loop 01:07:50 paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has joined #lisp 01:09:35 does common lisp have native datatype options (i gather the regular ints are 32bits with somehacked off for flags) 01:09:39 billstclair: i'd think NOR is a sufficiently fundamental operation for it to be optimized, and defined with a few others in a rather basic library of logical operators 01:10:04 doomlord: check FIXNUM 01:10:09 doomlord: fixnums, the float constellation, etc 01:10:10 thanks 01:10:26 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:10:44 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:11:05 NOR may be a basic operation, but the optimization you can get on it isn't going to make much difference in any real code 01:11:12 what does the standard say about the inbuilt int type... will it auto change into bignums etc 01:11:39 yes, fixnum arithmetic can generate bignums 01:11:53 you could just check the standard. 01:12:09 "An integer is a mathematical integer. There is no limit on the magnitude of an integer." 01:13:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:35 doomlord: to get the overflowing C semantics you can (declare (type fixnum x y z)) 01:13:42 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B201.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:49 it will be as fast (and wrong) ;) 01:14:19 uh, no, nothing like C semantics are defined 01:14:25 not ocunting on it being fast lol :) ... but for reasoining about binary data.. 01:14:38 oops typo. Not counting on it being fast 01:14:48 There's also unsigned-byte, etc. types. 01:15:31 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B540.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:42 i guess another approach would be alternative functions for such arithmetic, add32 sub32 etc which constrain bignums with 32bit overflow, but that seems a bit clunky 01:15:45 doomlord: why not fast ? 01:16:06 doomlord: and what is binary data anyway ? 01:16:37 doomlord: these are called + - just ensure your arguments are FIXNUMs 01:16:49 doomlord: not much point. just do enough type annotation, optimize declarations, etc., and write the actual code well, and the compiler will output code as fast as it's able. 01:16:53 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:16:54 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:04 maybe i'm biased; I forget lisp can be compiled. Binary data ... eg as exists on disk , as is formatted in gpu buffers, image formats , etc... 01:17:06 doomlord: SBCL has an optimization that lets it use 32-bit operations when you constrain the result of an arithmetic expression to 32 bits via LDB or AND, I believe 01:17:28 doomlord: LispWorks has an "int32" API that does modular 32-bit arithmetic. i prefer sbcl's approach. 01:17:30 (the fixnum (+ (the fixnum 12) (the fixnum 12))) 01:17:44 sped up md5 pretty nicely (and didn't make code any more unreadable) (: 01:18:21 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Modular-arithmetic 01:18:33 doomlord: you should have a look at sbcl, it has type inference and will optimize based on that 01:18:41 that sounds nice 01:19:57 what Bike said. modular arithmetic was the term (: 01:20:17 i was going to also ask - "can one query whether or not ones' lisp functions can be type infered at compile time ..." ... i gather by default in a dynamic language it is possible to do things that are difficult to type-infer, eg mixed data-types in lists. eg is it able to type infer a special case of a homogeneous list 01:20:42 doomlord: there isn't an easy way to express that type. 01:20:47 usually you DECLARE the type of your arguments or variables, and return (THE type value). 01:20:47 jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:21:16 doomlord: if you really care about performance, linked lists are rarely the right data structure. 01:23:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:23:45 joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:34 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.46.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:08 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 01:25:36 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:25:54 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:05 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.24.195] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 01:26:27 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:26:39 kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:26 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.46.67] has joined #lisp 01:28:47 I'm considering a function F that returns a non-inferable type when (inferable-p F) it non-nil and an inferable type when (inferable-p F) is nil. 01:29:23 s/it non-nil/is non-nil/ 01:30:28 but i'm not sure type inference is done for returned values 01:30:58 -!- Thra11_ [~thrall@37.147.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:31:34 heh inability to infer return types is kind of frustrating in c++ 01:32:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:32:32 haskell seemed quite inspiring in its type-infering ability ... and i suppose there must be a lot of research on type inference in dynamic languags with javascript being so popular 01:32:59 Haskell is inspiring only because it was designed from the ground up to be statically inferred, unlike languages like Lisp. 01:33:19 (so really what I'm saying is that, at least for me, it's actually not very inspiring) 01:33:45 user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:18 i found myself wanting to write code which starts querying the types given, kind of like overloading backwards and wondered if a smart compiler would end up reducing and inlining all that ... 01:34:46 you should have a look at Qi / Shen 01:35:17 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:18 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:35:27 i'd heard of shen; thats got partial function applicatoin too, right 01:37:24 shen is like a wonderful, young, child of CL and OCaml : type inference is strong but metaprogrammable 01:37:31 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:38:04 it's typing system i meant 01:38:41 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@70-36-57-169.dyn.novuscom.net] has left #lisp 01:38:58 And it's motto, "write once, run anywhere", is a child of (actually a copy of) Sun's slogan. 01:39:43 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:03 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2FEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:40:04 inbuilt prolog.. 01:40:10 haha 01:40:24 Minvaineth [~Minvainet@pc-51-237-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:26 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:30 -!- Minvaineth [~Minvainet@pc-51-237-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has left #lisp 01:40:34 the in-built prolog got me a line "looks like retarded copy of prolog" from someone who actually uses prolog more ;) 01:41:26 Shen also sports its elegant use of infix syntax, different flavors of brackets, and so forth, making it ever harder to write metaprograms. 01:41:40 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:41:43 i watched the language's birth last year, it's still unusably young, but they poke at things that always disturbed me in CL 01:42:18 Quadrescence: isn't infix syntax with brackets supported in CL ? 01:42:25 (yuck) 01:43:15 square brackets have no meaning in CL unless you assign them meaning. And there are no infix junk in CL unless, again, you write a junk library. 01:43:41 i have to admit the brackets suck 01:43:48 i was about to say, lispers dont like infix, right.. 01:43:55 i used to like this project... 01:43:59 (ql:quicklisp :infix) has some infix syntax, you can easily use { as a reader macro instead of #i if you insist 01:44:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:44:33 i like clojure's use of [ ] { } for arrays/vectors and maps 01:45:05 doomlord: are they converted to parens by the reader ? 01:45:23 presumably they work something like CL's #(. 01:45:51 [ ] appears to do what #( ) does, yes. having one for maps too is neat. 01:46:17 there are a few libs for that for CL. it's a bit non-obvious how to make it work. 01:47:47 .. iirc, Racket has (foo . bar . baz) meaning (bar foo baz) 01:48:16 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: catmtking] 01:48:21 -!- Forty-Bot [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:40 a bit like syntax from OO languages i guess..... objC [object method arguments...] 01:48:56 doomlord: that's from smalltalk 01:48:56 lcc [~lcc@unaffiliated/lcc] has joined #lisp 01:49:14 ok. i've only encountered objC so i call it that. :) 01:49:43 objc is a bit of smalltalk bolted on top of c, so that happens a lot. 01:50:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:14 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53:56 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 01:55:09 keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:14 regarding mixed small collections... do any lisps have the equivalent of tuples; small immutable "anonymous structs" 02:00:26 -!- arnsholt [~arne@80.203.170.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:00:29 infix library supports more things than I thought. (let ((a 1) (b 2) c) #i( c = sqrt(a + b) * 3 ) c) 02:00:31 doomlord: why '("a" 1 :c) not a tuple 02:00:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:00:52 doomlord : Racket lists are immutable, i suppose 02:02:33 or even better (or worse depending on your POV :) ) (let (a b c) #i( a = 1, b = 2, c = sqrt(a + b) * 3) c) 02:03:44 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:04:43 arnsholt [~arne@80.203.170.54] has joined #lisp 02:05:28 Pangaea [~pangaea@37.244.205.218] has joined #lisp 02:05:47 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:06:39 a tuple would be easier for an implementation to handle efficiently; a list might get manipulated 02:06:42 kennyd: oh the unending pleasures of shift reduce 02:06:46 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:26 doomlord: i think '(a b c) is considered immutable 02:07:43 doomlord: fixed-size vectpr? 02:07:46 vector 02:08:10 billitch: literals in LET are better left immutable, too 02:08:18 What can i use for bidirectional communication with startes process? 02:08:31 *Pangaea* started 02:09:00 billitch : but not `(,a ,b ,c) right ? 02:09:12 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:19 p_l: yes 02:09:25 Pangaea: SLIME/Swank? 02:09:45 uhm no 02:09:47 ski: i would not try it, why should it be mutable ? 02:10:14 I want to start some process and write to it'a stdin and read from it stdout 02:10:23 billitch : assuming it desugars to (roughly) (list a b c) 02:10:51 Pangaea: implementation-dependent, I've heard xcvb-driver is a good port layer though 02:11:00 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:11:03 ski: i'm not sure backquote is your regular kind of sugar 02:11:19 (at least i think this is the case in Scheme, not sure about CL) 02:11:23 Thanks I'll check it out 02:12:39 «Since the exact manner in which the Lisp reader will parse an expression involving the backquote reader macro is not specified, an implementation is free to choose any representation that preserves the semantics described.» 02:14:06 Pangaea: you mean like (read) and (write) ? they default to *standard-input* and *standard-output* 02:14:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:14:28 Pangaea: oh you mean a pipe 02:14:34 pangaea is talking about starting a child program and piping to and from it. 02:14:39 ok 02:14:41 Yes 02:14:54 I haven't used run-program and all myself, but I'm reasonably sure they give you input and output streams if you want them. 02:15:38 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 02:16:38 xcvb seems to be a replacement for asdf? What makes it better? 02:17:05 Bike: run-program isn't CL, of course... 02:17:07 You could read the papers on it. But I was talking about xcvb-driver specificall. 02:17:13 DataLinkDroid: of course. 02:17:52 Pangaea: you haven't said which platforms you want this to work on... 02:18:53 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:30 Ideally it would be portable as the rest of my program is. If not sbcl and osx 02:20:52 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 02:21:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:21:40 Pangaea: okay. however, running external processes is inherently non-portable 02:22:45 it does not have to be. User can choose path to the executable 02:23:42 Pangaea: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Running-external-programs.html :input and :output 02:23:51 Pangaea: there does not necessarily have to exist any std input or output stream 02:24:09 Pangaea: on windows these do not exist for non-console programs 02:24:20 -!- sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:25:08 I am working with console programs (chess engines) 02:25:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 02:25:13 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:26:38 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:45 drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 02:26:49 sabalaba [~Adium@c-67-180-195-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:26:57 external-program seems to be a compatibility layer for this 02:28:47 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 02:31:54 -!- lggr 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[~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 04:44:56 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 04:45:18 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:45:37 -!- froydnj [~nfroyd@people1.scl3.mozilla.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:45:40 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:46:23 i'm using slime-20120909, it seems all function params helper in the mini buffer are capitalized. anyone has the same situation? 04:47:06 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:49 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:09 -!- peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 04:51:27 peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:51:40 -!- peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 04:52:09 -!- 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Áûâàåò íåäîñòàòî÷íî ãðîìêîå Ìÿóóó...] 07:17:42 -!- drl [~drl@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 07:18:07 gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:36 mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has joined #lisp 07:20:43 mathrick [~mathrick@188.181.106.202] has joined #lisp 07:20:55 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:21:07 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.204.163] has joined #lisp 07:21:12 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:31 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 07:21:46 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010dfa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:10 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:25:46 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.146.204.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:26:54 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-dwxqshpmvopgrssu] has joined #lisp 07:27:26 punee [~punee@213-245-106-105.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:29:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.176.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:31:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:31:31 mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has joined #lisp 07:32:32 is anyone using parse-combinators? shouldn't this return "test "? (parse-string* (gather-before-token* (int?)) "test 10") 07:32:33 chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has joined #lisp 07:34:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:35:29 -!- aegray_ [~agjohnst@38.122.189.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:35:58 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-127-161.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:06 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 07:37:28 aegray [~agjohnst@38.122.189.222] has joined #lisp 07:40:26 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:42:31 *dim* only used cl-lex and cl-yacc 07:43:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:44:57 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 07:47:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-95.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:49:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:50:59 trebb [~trebb@141.30.183.169] has joined #lisp 07:52:43 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-147-75.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:53:11 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:53:34 -!- moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-6-148.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:54:50 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 07:55:41 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-geoedtvvdvzdvfye] has joined #lisp 07:56:43 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 07:59:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:06:02 moore33 [~moore@ABordeaux-153-1-15-13.w92-146.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:06:47 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 08:09:46 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:10:31 Guest15488 [~attila_le@37.99.77.232] has joined #lisp 08:10:43 bitonic [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:13:04 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:15:46 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.237.159] has joined #lisp 08:16:26 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:18:35 peterhil [~peterhil@91-157-48-51.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:19:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:19:51 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:20:50 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 08:22:21 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.65.98] has joined #lisp 08:23:08 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:24:11 -!- rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:25:27 rickardg [~user@c-96a0e355.026-29-73746f4.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:26:38 -!- bitonic [~user@host86-133-192-169.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:27:15 ehu [~ehu@109.38.222.128] has joined #lisp 08:27:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.248] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 08:29:26 santhosh2 [~santhosh@117.241.57.5] has joined #lisp 08:29:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:56 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 08:30:56 Hi 08:31:49 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:33:39 hello 08:36:17 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-0-174.lns10.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:36:48 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-0-174.lns10.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 08:38:37 -!- santhosh2 [~santhosh@117.241.57.5] has left #lisp 08:39:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:40:34 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-0-174.lns10.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:40:46 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@CPE-124-184-0-174.lns10.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Client Quit] 08:41:04 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-95.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:42:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-95.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:42:28 h4ns: any chance postmodern can be made threadsafe? 08:42:39 H4ns: any chance postmodern can be made threadsafe? 08:42:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:44:10 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.237.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:45:57 huangjs: what do you mean by that? 08:46:12 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-dwxqshpmvopgrssu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:48:59 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:51:31 agumonkey [~agu@208.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:38 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 08:53:38 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.31.44.55] has joined #lisp 08:54:37 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-129-53.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:54 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 08:55:39 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:57:56 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:27 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:00:41 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:03:00 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bwvrepijgxabkpsx] has joined #lisp 09:04:28 -!- mpstyler [~mpstyler@176.73.151.79] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 09:06:41 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:07:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:10:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:11:34 ehu` [~ehu@109.33.106.242] has joined #lisp 09:13:23 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.38.222.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:27 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-bwvrepijgxabkpsx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:08 H4ns: hmm... i think i know the problem now, i was doing queries from multiple threads under one with-connection 09:14:18 H4ns: need to pass the *database* binding 09:14:36 but now i'm just using multiple connections 09:14:51 the problem is that I have more than 100 :) 09:16:36 bitonic [~user@146.169.24.120] has joined #lisp 09:17:01 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.248] has joined #lisp 09:17:22 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:18:13 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 09:18:22 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:18:51 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:20:46 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:22:28 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 09:24:34 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.31.44.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:24:55 add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-138-144.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 09:25:34 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-95.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:26:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-95.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:27:06 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-187-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:27:28 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-187-181.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:27:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:28:12 Anyone know where to find ebnf-parser? the link on cliki is broken 09:28:44 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:30:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:31:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:31:18 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:37 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:35:49 mstevens: cliki isn't down for me. 09:35:58 Oh 09:36:03 My bad 09:36:14 add^_: not cliki itself, it has a link to the ebnf-parser project that's not working for me 09:36:27 °.. 09:36:28 °. 09:36:29 . 09:36:30 Yeah, I misunderstood and thought cliki was bad again 09:36:38 down* 09:36:40 not bad 09:36:59 I googled a bit for ebnf-parser but there are no obvious alternative sites 09:37:01 Do you have to use that? 09:37:07 the ebnf-parser I mean 09:37:27 Hm 09:37:35 *add^_* isn't sure what EBNF is 09:37:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:37:54 "Extended Backus?Naur Form"? 09:38:02 add^_: well maybe not. I wanted to parse things defined in ABNF, so it seemed like a good place to start looking 09:38:34 hmm, maybe http://git.tentpost.com/?p=lisp/ebnf-parser.git;a=summary is the new repo 09:38:51 Whenever I hear the name Backus I think of Baccus, or whatever it's spelled, the greek drunkard god. 09:39:08 Seems like it 09:39:59 add^_: the the moment I'm translating ABNF into cl-yacc manually, I was looking for a tool that might avoid this tedious step 09:40:02 Sorry for not being of any help 09:40:15 Ah 09:40:19 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:40:38 of course writing one might be fun 09:41:20 It's kinda like my project, having to write cffi files for more than 30 headers is not an option. 09:41:24 c++ headers 09:41:37 Greetings! 09:41:51 Although I think my project would be easier than yours :-/ 09:41:55 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:41:57 Did I miss something important? 09:42:04 hello hitecnologys 09:42:14 I dunno, there should be a log somewhere 09:42:27 add^_: actually I dunno, I think the BNF spec itself is pretty small, probably I can just read that in and output lex/yacc. maybe. 09:42:39 Oh 09:43:13 http://rotty.xx.vu/irclogs/freenode/%23lisp/2012-10-04/ 09:43:36 The link links to itself now :-) 09:43:43 In the log I mean 09:44:04 add^_: lol 09:44:44 Google indexer will die in recursion. 09:45:12 ^^ 09:47:03 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-189-184.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:47:23 Hm 09:48:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:37 Not sure I understand your project mstevens :-/ 09:48:40 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.211.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:49:35 Oh, yacc = yet another compiler collection 09:49:57 add^_: http://www.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr/~jch/software/cl-yacc/ 09:50:26 Hm 09:50:27 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:50:45 add^_: I want to parse things! I have a grammar defined in ABNF. Converting that into a form cl-yacc (or a n other parser generator) understands is tedious 09:51:06 Ah 09:51:19 add^_: I liked the look of ebnf-parser because I thought maybe I could input bnf directly. Or perhaps I can write something that inputs abnf and spits out cl-yacc style parser definitions 09:51:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 09:51:35 :-) 09:51:41 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:51:51 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:52:23 *hitecnologys* wrote almost the same pattern matching function third time. 09:52:23 mstevens: http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html may be for you 09:52:24 I'm not sure if ebnf-parser would output stuff into the form you want though 09:53:23 Is there's nice english sentences parsing library or I should write it by myself? 09:53:43 English* 09:53:48 that makes me think of a picture with the text "a smug geek we abhor". 09:53:48 hitecnologys: http://www.cliki.net/Natural%20Language%20Processing 09:54:41 H4ns: oh, thanks a lot. 09:55:14 http://scrivle.com/posts/a-smug-geek-we-abhor 09:56:51 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:56:54 I think Xach posted that in his blog quite a while ago.. 09:58:14 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:04:23 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 10:04:53 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 10:05:56 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.90] has joined #lisp 10:08:08 -!- user123abc [~sally@c-67-171-79-251.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:08:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:12:24 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 10:12:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:16:22 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has joined #lisp 10:18:54 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:13 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:27:01 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 10:28:21 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:29:00 -!- sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:31:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:31:58 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.248] has joined #lisp 10:34:33 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.65.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:34:33 -!- hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 10:34:50 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 10:37:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:38:50 sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 10:39:52 Thra11_ [~thrall@37.147.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:14 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:43:27 francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432745.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 10:44:36 -!- sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:44:44 -!- mrxy [~yhiselamu@lap.ee] has quit [Quit: #yhiselamu | www.yhiselamu.ee (EOF)] 10:46:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:47:08 sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 10:49:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:50:18 jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:50:27 -!- francisl [~flavoie@bas1-montreal48-1176432745.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: francisl] 10:51:24 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 10:52:35 -!- cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:53:13 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:36 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has joined #lisp 10:56:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:55 nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:06 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 10:57:36 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:05 -!- VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:36 Hm, could someone explain me why some people use (lambda ) and some people use #'(lambda )? Which way is better? 10:59:13 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has joined #lisp 10:59:24 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:00:03 for about the same reason that some people write "colour" and others use "color" 11:00:07 hitecnologys: i would recommend you read about lambda - in many ways it is the only thing there is to lisp 11:00:28 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 11:00:37 hitecnologys: search for something written by someone philosophically eccentric about lambda, you'll find something 11:00:49 or maybe i have something handy 11:01:32 ehu [~ehu@109.33.252.162] has joined #lisp 11:02:17 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has joined #lisp 11:03:49 this isn't exactly it but it looks like a great log http://www.ymeme.com/lisp 11:04:05 -!- ehu` [~ehu@109.33.106.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:04:29 hitecnologys: http://is.gd/FgaWbQ 11:05:24 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:05:27 hitecnologys: i had my first moment in which i briefly understood lambda recently and have been deciding how i would like to notate it 11:05:35 hitecnologys: which way do you prefer? 11:06:18 nydel: Now I write it like this: #'(lambda ). But (lambda ) is shorter and easier to read. 11:06:53 nydel: But #'(lambda ) seems more natural for me as #' is the function pointer. 11:07:05 hitecnologys: it is not "the function pointer" 11:07:47 hitecnologys: #' is a reader macro that expands to (function ...) 11:07:57 *H4ns* ducks 11:08:12 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:08:13 H4ns: I'm fairly confident this is a lost cause. 11:08:19 :) 11:08:35 H4ns: Wow. Thanks. 11:08:45 H4ns: i call it the hashquote, does it have a name? 11:09:19 pkhuong: i see what you all meant by that newcomers may have a different idea from me about whether this room is warm & polite ;) 11:09:53 nydel: i call it "function" 11:09:53 But is there's any difference between #'(lambda ) and (lambda )? 11:10:08 hitecnologys: not for any practical purpose 11:10:25 hitecnologys: of course there is a difference, but it does not matter. 11:10:28 pkhuong: H4ns: which of the two do you usually use? 11:10:53 nydel: i use (lambda ...). i use #'name too often. 11:11:15 OK. Thanks everyone. 11:11:26 H4ns: so you find it easier to read without "function" in front? 11:11:37 hitecnologys: thanks for the question/topic 11:11:56 nydel: the good thing about #'foo is that it is easy to spot that a function is being passed. the downside is that if the foo function is changed, the new definition is not picked up 11:12:30 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-95.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:00 nydel: i find #'foo easier to "read" in that higher-order programming is easily visible with it. 11:13:01 hitecnologys: since this is kindof a whimsical subject, it might be better received in #lispcafe, not that /i/ mind it here, just a suggestion. i personally love to discuss nonsense related to lisp at length, and it takes a lot of effort for me to not bore or frustrate the kind persons of #lisp, i do believe. 11:13:05 -!- kanru` [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:13:37 nydel: OK. 11:13:44 nydel: please stop the metadiscussion, it is even more unwelcome than off-topic discussions (to me, that is) :) 11:13:46 H4ns: i get that 11:14:00 re use of #' 11:14:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.2.1] 11:14:24 H4ns: apologies, i should have used a private message & will next time. 11:14:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:17:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:19:54 -!- bitonic [~user@146.169.24.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:20:17 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.88.248] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 11:22:34 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.8.228] has joined #lisp 11:23:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25:23 bitonic [~user@dyn1218-198.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:26:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:28:45 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1218-198.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:06 bitonic [~user@dyn1218-198.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:30:44 d3vnu11 [~devnull@174-30.60-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 11:31:47 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:32:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:52 pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has joined #lisp 11:35:14 cymew [~cymew@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 11:35:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:38:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@188.181.106.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:52 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:41:03 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:42:38 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:44:42 -!- jji [~jji@c220-239-125-8.belrs4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #lisp 11:45:31 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1218-198.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:46:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:51:43 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@24.68.50.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:44 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:53:17 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:55:19 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 11:55:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-127-161.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:16 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:05:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:06:19 H4ns: #'foo doesn't spot that a function is passed. It's a misled interpretation. See for example: http://lisptips.com/post/31567007407/putting-the-r-in-repl 12:06:38 No object of type function passed here. 12:06:58 pjb: i'm talking about what i see when i read code, not what you see when you try to be as precise as you can. 12:07:16 -!- nydel [~jo@ip72-197-235-21.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:07:29 ok 12:08:33 justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-129-53.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:55 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:11:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:12:30 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 12:12:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:14:34 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:15:42 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 12:16:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:41 -!- sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:19:43 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:21:56 sytse [sytse@vps.swielinga.nl] has joined #lisp 12:24:20 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:25:08 -!- Guest15488 [~attila_le@37.99.77.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:25:47 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:26:39 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-116-150.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:24 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:30:28 jcorneli [c2429f0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.66.159.11] has joined #lisp 12:30:36 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:31:03 LiamH [~healy@129-2-129-145.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:31:05 hello, I'm using `sort' in SBCL and it just deleted 100 items from my list 12:31:07 any idea why? 12:31:11 -!- maxwellhansen [~cheerilee@184.13.141.51] has left #lisp 12:31:20 it's supposed to be a destructive function ... but not THAT destructive! 12:31:40 actually it was 110 items from a 445 item-long list to be precise 12:31:55 jcorneli: it can be as destructive as it wants as long as it sorts your list 12:32:16 it's supposed to delete cells?? 12:32:21 jcorneli: are you sure that you captured the return value of your sort invocation? 12:32:34 jcorneli: it is supposed to sort. 12:33:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:33:29 H4ns: OK (set foo (sort ...)) did it 12:33:36 doesn't seem likely 12:33:44 jcorneli: setf, not set. 12:33:53 steq 12:33:54 sorry can't type today 12:33:55 I meant setq 12:34:12 jcorneli: imagine SET doesn't exist. 12:34:43 merely a typo 12:34:53 *Xach* wishes he had that cl-universe code search working so he could see if anyone used set in a sensible way 12:35:21 It's odd though that I had to (setq foo (sort ...)) is it not? 12:35:44 rather than just (sort mylist (lambda (x y) ...)) working... 12:35:58 I guess that's the definition of "destructive"??? 12:36:07 mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has joined #lisp 12:36:23 Xach: it is used in our our source base, but i'd not say "sensible" 12:36:31 jcorneli: it's not odd 12:36:40 -!- [SLB] is now known as [SLB]` 12:37:04 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:25 OK well anyway that's ... sorted 12:37:29 thanks 12:37:31 -!- jcorneli [c2429f0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.66.159.11] has quit [] 12:38:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:40:32 -!- pirateking-_- [~piratekin@unaffiliated/pirateking---/x-2885143] has quit [Quit: pirateking-_-] 12:41:08 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:31 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@catv-89-132-196-182.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:43:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:44:32 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-174.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:49:11 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:46 xach: I think I've seen ancient macsyma code that uses SET; perhaps it has been rewritten in maxima. 12:51:38 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52:48 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 12:52:55 But it is a throwback. 12:55:09 gko [~user@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:32 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:57:10 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 12:57:47 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:59:16 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 12:59:34 -!- mjs2600 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13:45:47 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:47 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.222.220] has joined #lisp 13:45:47 -!- justinmcp [~justinmcp@ppp118-208-47-50.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:54 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1210-110.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:46:53 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:48:30 mucker [~mucker@183.83.240.198] has joined #lisp 13:49:26 -!- changedNicks [isodiazo@irc.upasna.in] has quit [Changing host] 13:49:26 changedNicks [isodiazo@unaffiliated/changednicks] has joined #lisp 13:49:32 -!- changedNicks is now known as sweet_kid 13:50:26 -!- brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:29 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:53:40 -!- sweet_kid [isodiazo@unaffiliated/changednicks] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:55 -!- cpc26 [~user@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:53:56 Guys, I need your advice again. I have one DEFPARAMETER variable and a macro which defines new operator. Macro uses function that modifies variable using PUSH, but this macro and function only used in one file. Is this OK or I should rewire it to make it pure functional? 13:53:56 changedNicks [abeyance@unaffiliated/changednicks] has joined #lisp 13:54:05 -!- changedNicks is now known as sweet_kid 13:54:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-174.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:40 brendyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 13:55:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-174.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:56:14 hitecnologys: macros should not generally modify variables. are you sure you're using your macros correctly? 13:56:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:56:58 -!- cic__ [~connolly@67.174.222.96] has quit [Quit: cic__] 13:57:01 ehu: Yeah, this is the question. I'm not sure. Wait a second, I'll push the code to github and give a link. 13:58:32 bitonic [~user@dyn1217-128.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:58:41 hitecnologys: #'(lambda ) is a legacy form from CLtL2, when cl:lambda wasn't a macro. I prefer to use the CL:LAMBDA macro. Otherwise, the difference between #'(lambda (x) x) and (lambda (x) x) is that the former is a list of two elements, while the later is a list of three elements, which is also a lambda form. 13:59:06 Also, I consider it rather impolite to disconnect when YOU consider you've got the answer you wanted. 13:59:42 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 13:59:59 You should only disconnect after pjb has fully delivered his crotchety rants 14:00:06 hitecnologys: it is ok as long as you wrap the defparameter and defun in an (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :execute) ) form. (you can also add :load-toplevel for good measure. 14:00:13 Xach: exactly. 14:00:18 pjb: Sorry for that. Russian internets are so russian. 14:00:26 hitecnologys: that's a valid excuse. 14:00:31 KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:40 hitecnologys: now the question as you can see, is that the list is pushed at compilation time, therefore in a variable that exists in the compilation environment. This variable and value may not exist later, at run-time. 14:02:10 hitecnologys: if you need it at run time, you will need to take special steps to ensure the value it has at the end of the compilation phase is saved into the fasl file. 14:02:23 Bike [~Glossina@63-229-128-245.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:25 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 14:02:31 It's easier to set up the macro so that it pushes both at run-time and at compilation time. 14:02:58 (defmacro m (x) (push x *var*) #|compilation time|# `(progn (push ',x *var*) #|run-time|# )) 14:03:53 :-) 14:04:02 pjb: Hm, OK. Thanks a lot. 14:04:14 Here is the code, if someone interested: http://goo.gl/r6h0H 14:04:18 Or you may add something like: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (defparameter *var* '#.*var*)) at the end of the file; I've never tested that. 14:05:08 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 14:05:16 Yes, you probably want to have access to your operators and operator docstrings at run-time so you need to save them both at compilation time and at run-time. 14:05:37 -!- bitonic [~user@dyn1217-128.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:05:42 pjb: OK. 14:05:59 On the other hand, you seem to be confused, I don't see any use of your function (and therefore of your variables) in your macros. 14:06:39 What you use in your macro (at macro-expansion time  compilation-time), it's the symbol naming the function! 14:06:47 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:06:50 So you don't need to do anything, it's good. 14:07:27 pjb: Hm. Yeah, I'm confused a bit. 14:07:30 I only see load-time bind-byte-code macro expansions. 14:07:38 homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-177-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:39 indeed. 14:07:49 which means no trickery is required. 14:08:31 hitecnologys: what problems do you have which lead you to ask this question? 14:08:39 hitecnologys: because we think it should work. 14:09:01 -!- mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:33 findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:10:12 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-177-94.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:10:33 ehu: Yes, it works nice, but I'm studying how to write a good code so I decided to check if my solution is alright. 14:10:52 ok. well, it is :-) 14:11:42 ABCL - the CL implementation on JVM - has something which works like what you did, except that it builds a hash instead of a list. 14:11:58 (to build up a map of jvm byte codes) 14:12:03 ehu: This code is even readable! I used to write unreadable code some years ago when I programmed on C, C++ and Python. 14:13:09 ehu: Hah. I think it's because I'm writing language too and it runs on VM. 14:13:29 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-78-35-177-94.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 14:14:52 ehu: You can find built version of interactive interpreter if you want to play with it. 14:15:04 add^_^ [~add^_@m37-3-58-191.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:15:46 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16:09 I need to go now. later! 14:16:10 bitonic [~user@dyn1217-128.wlan.ic.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:16:26 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has joined #lisp 14:16:56 -!- add^_ [~add^_@m37-2-138-144.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:57 -!- add^_^ is now known as add^_ 14:18:28 ehu: good luck. 14:18:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:19:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 14:20:40 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.33.252.162] has quit 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[~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:04:37 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:09 Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.1.223.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 18:07:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:09:56 Xach: hi. 18:10:03 Xach: around? 18:10:18 xach: found a bug, I think, in the QL dependencies for my client. 18:10:34 hi ehu 18:10:38 what's up? 18:10:42 -!- pnpuff [~aeiou@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 18:11:17 ran (ql:quickload :routes-test) in a clean image, but it seems that system doesn't depend on routes. 18:11:36 ie, after running (ql:quickload :routes) that form works. 18:12:23 ehu: routes-test does not have its own system file 18:12:29 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.0.119] has joined #lisp 18:12:51 Xach: well, it did start to load a number of dependencies, but not routes itself. 18:13:19 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-awjggrzxybfszgpb] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:31 Quicklisp is being half-helpful there. It *does* know about routes-test and its dependencies, but it won't load the system itself because of the lack of an independent system file. 18:13:31 does not having its own system file influence that? 18:13:44 ah. ok. 18:13:58 I wonder if it that's an unhelpful helpfulness. 18:14:30 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:14:39 don't really know. Now that I know how it works, I can work with it. 18:14:40 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:14:53 it's just that it wasn't what I expected. 18:15:30 The first versions of quicklisp could load systems like that, but it introduced some awkward loops that were more trouble than I wanted. 18:15:58 In the absence of a system file, you could never load those systems independently before 18:17:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:18:04 well, then it's simply how things work. I understand that. 18:18:47 -!- faheem [~faheem@bigipfloater1.duhs.duke.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:48 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:42 faheem [~faheem@bigipfloater1.duhs.duke.edu] has joined #lisp 18:20:38 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:55 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 18:23:03 _d3f [~d3f@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 18:23:18 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:23:48 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:23:54 ok! 18:25:58 *Xach* is feeling anxious about google's recent blocking of planet lisp's feed fetcher 18:28:17 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:30:35 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.136.27.164] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 18:31:07 -!- KingsKnighted [~quassel@c-174-52-149-13.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:38 catmtking_ [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:31:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:34:31 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:34:47 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:34:47 -!- catmtking_ is now known as catmtking 18:36:13 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-174.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:38:58 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:40:27 steffi_s [~marioooh@x-132-204-243-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 18:40:38 Xach: can I force recompilation upon reloading through ql:quickload? 18:40:58 Xach: Is it the best practice to push directories onto asdf:*central-registry* for those systems that you don't want to load via quicklisp i.e., hack locally? 18:41:31 moore33: I prefer to put the directories in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ instead, but pushing to the central registry is what I normally did in the past. 18:41:43 i don't care about best, but i hope it stays good practice. 18:41:51 The ASDF2 source registry system was hard for me to figure out and remember. 18:42:14 ehu: Like asdf's :force option? No. 18:42:17 Xach: Ok... thanks. 18:42:17 I just put a symlink into ~/quicklisp/local-projects 18:42:25 xach: yes and ok. 18:42:55 If everything is available (nothing needs to be downloaded), you can use asdf directly 18:43:47 $ cat .config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf 18:43:47 (:source-registry (:tree "/home/me/src/lisp") :inherit-configuration) 18:43:54 is what I do 18:44:34 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:46 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:45:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:46:08 sellout42 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:43 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:55:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:52 do others get warnings like this from LIFT: "Declaring unknown variable LIFT-RESULT to be ignorable."? 18:58:30 *Xach* hasn't used lift 18:58:32 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 18:58:35 (specifically when running/compiling CL-ROUTES tests) 18:59:08 Xach: the only reason I use it now is because I'm fixing CL-ROUTES regressions. Other than that, I never even looked at what it actually does :-) 18:59:31 -!- user123abc [~sally@128.237.165.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:58 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.0.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:03:48 -!- galdor [galdor@78.193.30.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:06:46 -!- chimay [~chimay@unaffiliated/chimay] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0-dev] 19:07:57 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:10:13 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@wireless-fac-staff-wpa-138-23-66-200.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:26 catmtking [~catmtking@dhcp-138-23-59-162.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 19:14:27 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:00 -!- answer_42 [~answer_42@gateway/tor-sasl/answer42/x-66983568] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:15 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:19:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-174.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-174.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:21:23 VieiraN [~VieiraN@187.101.235.227] has joined #lisp 19:22:29 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:16 My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:24:30 user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:24:43 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:48 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-195-174.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:38 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.168] has joined #lisp 19:27:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:27:08 galdor [galdor@78.193.30.12] has joined #lisp 19:27:43 -!- user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:28:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:29:34 user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:30:43 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cpc1-cove3-0-0-cust941.3-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 kmels [~kmels@HSI-KBW-078-043-223-122.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:49 Hi! Can anyone suggest a "cancellable" option for lisp acting as an http client? It doesn't look like Drakma is designed to be re-entrant, so I'm a little cautious about spawning it in a thread and then killing the thread on cancel. 19:32:04 Is there anything I can do cleverer than calling wget/curl in a subprocess? 19:32:26 rswarbrick: on ccl, you can specify a request deadline. 19:32:36 For Drakma? 19:32:48 rswarbrick: as far as i remember 19:32:59 Ahah, yep I see it. 19:33:06 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:33:10 Hmm, but this isn't really what I want. 19:33:22 I'm writing a gui application so basically there should be a "cancel" button 19:34:02 Just in case the file being downloaded is tens of mb, I want to allow the user to say "Oops, don't worry actually" without killing the process 19:34:43 sounds like a fair wish 19:34:53 For the user or the lazy developer? :-) 19:34:57 both 19:35:18 but i fear drakma does not have that. it would not be too hard to implement, though. 19:35:18 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:01 I'm not sure about easiness to implement: how could the "ooh, cancel it actually" message get to the thread which is blocking somewhere inside http-request? 19:36:28 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:36:32 I don't want to just call a thread termination function, since I fear that all sorts of state will get messed up 19:36:41 rswarbrick: the thread will eventually be writing some data to the sink, and that would be the point where one would cancel the request. 19:36:57 rswarbrick: i'd not want that either. 19:37:11 Hmm, I guess I could go with asking for a stream. 19:37:31 rswarbrick: or you could work with a closure 19:37:32 rswarbrick: right. for potentially large requests, this sounds like a good idea anyway 19:37:39 that closure could wrap the stream 19:37:56 There will be an uninterruptible bit where Drakma tries to get a connection, but at least I won't eat someone's monthly bandwdith by accident. 19:38:10 And of course my GUI can lie about the uninterruptible bit! 19:38:18 rswarbrick: and that is where deadlines would help to not hang the request forever 19:38:41 Yep. Since I'm on SBCL, I'll probably spend some time this evening working out whether I can port the functionality. 19:38:59 (Unless you know there's a good reason it's CCL only?) 19:39:15 rswarbrick: i remember to have read something about deadlines in the sbcl changelog a while ago, but i don't remember any details. 19:39:31 rswarbrick: deadlines are a low-level feature and require implementation support. 19:39:34 Well, I found them in the manual an hour or so ago when looking at thread primitimves. 19:39:57 Yep, maybe they appeared in SBCL since Drakma got its CCL-only support 19:40:38 ISF [~ivan@187.64.220.85] has joined #lisp 19:40:44 rswarbrick: quite possible. when we implemented them in ccl, we had ported qres over and did not care about sbcl for deployment. 19:42:28 Ah, that makes sense. 19:42:41 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:43:16 *rswarbrick* finally got Google to tell him what qres was 19:44:06 rswarbrick: we could have told you that :-) 19:44:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:14 I was wondering how the heck I hadn't heard of the library... 19:45:45 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 19:45:59 antonv [5d7d31f9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.49.249] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 19:47:23 _Mon_Ouie_ [~Mon_Ouie@144.4-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:47:51 -!- _Mon_Ouie_ is now known as Mon_Ouie 19:47:52 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.13.40.59] has joined #lisp 19:47:53 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@144.4-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 19:47:53 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:48:18 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:49:19 -!- My_Hearing [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:34 lolprog [~let@94-225-44-126.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:50:00 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[~mjs2600@24.106.194.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:28:59 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 20:30:00 gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:30:12 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:31:16 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@170.107.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: jcazevedo] 20:32:42 -!- eldar [~CLD@pppoe-197-232-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 20:33:08 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:33:47 john__ [~john@235.158.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:33:54 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:34:47 daniel4 [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has joined #lisp 20:35:52 -!- daniel4 [~daniel@201.209.38.229] has left #lisp 20:40:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:26 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:45:07 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 20:50:18 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:53:00 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 20:53:46 -!- atsidi [~nkraft_@mail.tai.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving, leaving, gone...] 20:54:14 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:54:57 dan64 [dan64@dannyadam.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:16 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 20:56:07 -!- user123abc [~sally@128.237.189.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:56:48 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:28 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:57:45 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@66.9.127.166] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:23 how can i remove accents from a char ? 20:58:25 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@89-212-113-105.static.t-2.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:37 (in a portable way) 20:59:18 -!- 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quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:08:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:34 postmodern. I just use postgres to do unaccenting for me :) 21:08:46 -!- jnbek|wc [~jnbek@pdpc/supporter/active/jnbek] has quit [Quit: Can't Quit Me] 21:10:32 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 21:10:43 -!- paul0 [~user@186.222.48.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:59 haha 21:11:15 -!- Alice3 [~Alice@cpc3-grim12-0-0-cust856.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 21:11:34 user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:12:21 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:16:37 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449708.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:17:26 -!- user123abc [~sally@CMU-799241.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:18:08 tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:33 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:19:23 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:21:13 killerboy 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http://paste.lisp.org/display/132382 21:45:28 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:35 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:48:56 huangjs [~huangjs@69.84.244.131] has joined #lisp 21:49:03 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 21:51:14 findiggle1 [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 21:51:43 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@173-10-106-172-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:27 -!- ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:55:55 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-177-94.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:56:39 findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has joined #lisp 21:56:44 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:33 lggr 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quit [] 22:24:20 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:31 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:28:40 deadghost [~deadghost@71-84-68-72.dhcp.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:09 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:54 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:31:59 BimmyJones [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:16 -!- BimmyJones [~hercules@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:23 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:34:50 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:35:42 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:13 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 22:37:54 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:38:02 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:40:36 ISF [~ivan@187.64.220.85] has joined #lisp 22:40:44 *Xach* is baffled 22:40:47 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.35.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:53 that doesn't look like quicklispy output at the end 22:43:31 mjs2600 [~mjs2600@user-0c999kc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:08 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:25 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@110.150.81.255] has joined #lisp 22:45:13 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:22 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:47:54 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:29 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:56:39 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 22:59:38 Forty-Two [~seana11@pool-71-191-38-245.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:52 -!- tfb [~tfb@a1.norwich.yourspac.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 23:03:07 -!- lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:03:45 -!- qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:21 qptain_Nemo [~qN@81-235-52-30-no79.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:42 -!- Forty-Two is now known as Forty-Bot 23:05:44 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:06:11 -!- findiggle [~kirkwood@67.40.30.237] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:19 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:01 -!- gffa [~unknown@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:12:03 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-190-243.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:33 -!- Daisy [~Daisy@109.58.1.223.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 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[~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:24:48 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:26:07 lggr [~lggr@84-73-159-126.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:26:35 ltbarcly1 [~ltbarcly@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 23:27:22 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:27:48 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:31 guyal [~michaelmu@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:03 -!- cibs [~cibs@219-87-142-18.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:04 cibs [~cibs@218.211.32.194] has joined #lisp 23:30:07 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:38 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 23:32:23 Jubb [~ghost@pool-108-28-0-134.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 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